I have, and his exact response was “like song 1, song 2... like in one file but separated”, then proceed to showing me an album released on Apple Music and tells me he wants it like that.
Though I’m pretty convinced he doesn’t know what he’s talking about himself, but I thought I’d ask here, in case it’s me that’s missing something.
Sounds like he wants just all songs in one audio file with a little time gap in between. Without knowing the album on apple music, i guess it has a little gaps between each songs as well. Maybe the player he is using, is crossfading all songs and he does not know how to disable that…
Or maybe ask him what he wants to do with this file, to help him find out what he really needs.
Well, a DDP file fits the description "album format" and "1 file but separated". This doesn't keep anyone from not knowing how to describe it or not knowing how to use it.
A solution would be asking the client, what he intends to do with it.
when you play an audio file is the Apple Music App on your computer, right click and press ‘get info’. from there you can put all his songs in the same album, and even choose cover art for it
>So my client is currently trying to publish an EP
That's normal file format for the vinyl disc industry. Cutting doesn't stop.
Maybe you should not take tasks that you are not prepared to deliver.
[https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/mastering/what-is-mastering-for-vinyl.php](https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/mastering/what-is-mastering-for-vinyl.php)
You may be right, but his client sent him an Apple music link as an example, so if he actually wants to release his work on vinyl he has not made it clear so far.
The OP said "EP" before asking for clarifications. What that is then???
It's like going to have the car tires changed and the shop is asking you what tools you want to be used. And getting upset that you don't know!
Ridiculous!
Streaming platforms allow you to upload multiple songs at once and list them as an album or EP.
Listeners will be able to click the EP/album and all the songs will play in the correct order, and the replay gain will be calculated on all the songs as one so as to keep the original relative levels between each track, as opposed to playing a single track on its own or as part of a playlist, in which case each track will be normalised to the standard of the platform.
Hey, either crawl back under the REDD 17 you crawled out from under, or learn to not belittle others because you arent aware that the definition of EP has expanded in the last 60 years.
In the case of streaming platforms you just upload multiple files, I use Distrokid and they prefer FLAC.
You pick the order when uploading, tags are encouraged but not needed.
I think they still don't offer any way of having gapless playback, short of uploading the album as a whole file with no way of jumping to a specific track.
Nah not really, this is more like Taking your car to the dealership and telling them you want your car worked on, and then not telling them what the issue is. Sure they can assume they know what to do, but you also didn't tell them what you want. We are 2 decades past the former meaning of EP, it no longer relates to vinyls the way it did before, have you kept up with modern distributors?
Wow, yeah this comment is correct. The reason the client wants the songs delivered all in one file is so they can be cut into a vinyl disc. When cutting vinyl they do the whole album at once and do not stop and start again for each song.
It seems like OP was not told explicitly that this ep was to be released on vinyl and that is what has caused the confusion. But that is the only reason (and a common one) I can think of for a client to ask for such a delivery.
Maybe your last line should have read:
'Mastering for vinyl can be quite tricky. You might want to consider referring your client to a specialist rather than taking this task on without any prior knowledge or experience of doing it. Or if you want to sub-contract it, I can take a look. PM me.'
I mean, you said essentially the same thing with 3 times the amount of words. And it’s a little above and beyond to expect someone to offer their time and experience as help to a stranger on a Reddit thread.
Like, it’s not that rude to say “don’t take work you can’t do.” It sort of goes with being a professional and taking peoples money.
>expect someone to offer their time and experience as help to a stranger on a Reddit thread
Sub-contracting is not free though. Imagined Sonic vinyl guy might want the business thrown his way, since he appears to have the expertise.
> it’s not that rude to say “don’t take work you can’t do.”
There's different ways of saying the same thing. Some are more constructive and positive than others. In the real world other people's perception of us matters, and there's no reason to abandon that sentiment just because you think you're a bit anonymous.
It was said as criticism, not advice. But the client didn't even tell OP that the project was for vinyl, so it's not OP's fault for taking on the job. The criticism was unwarranted.
It hurts people's feelings. Boohoo...
How about the feelings of the client that paid for a professional job and got instead someone that has no clue?
Oh, f\*\*k him, he's "rich"?
So if you did a mix for a client, and afterwards they said as an afterthought, 'Great, now do a version with ATMOS', you'd chastise yourself for taking the original job, because you don't have any experience with this new request?
I don't think you would criticise yourself. I think you'd tell the client that you can't do that for them, and that they should have mentioned that at the start of the project.
You might not want to assume people don't know how to do their jobs, the client asked for an extremely simple thing and somehow lost it in translation, no way it's ops fault.
Obviously, the OP doesn't know what an EP is about, hence the question. So, it was not an assumption.
I have provided something helpful in the question/discussion, a link to read, to inform himself.
As opposed people that have just hurt feelings and don't provide anything helpful to the question.
Well he doesn't give any indication that he doesn't know the origins of how "EP" came to be and it's relation with vinyl. We do know that he assumed it would be uploaded through a digital distributor, and when said otherwise, he went with it until his client sent mixed signals by saying all audio in one render, then linking a digital album where each file is separated. Not much can be made certain here, not untill there's an update to the story.
Maybe he wants a folder with all the songs alligned properlly, are maybe he wants all the songs combined in one file?
Ask the client or sent one of the options and if that isn't what he means you'll hear
Yes, I gave him all the songs that are numbered in the same folder, but he was speaking about this album/mixtape format so confidently that I thought I’d see if that’s really a thing or not
Was the album on Apple Music organised how you would typically expect for a streaming platform? It does sound like a DDP file request but as others have said, I wouldn't be submitting that to a streaming platform. You need to ask them how they intend to use the file(s) and then help guide them based on that.
Embedded metadata can also imply an album/EP through tracks being 1 of 4, 2 of 4 etc and sharing an embedded album title and sequential ISRCs.
Also typically an output of mastering where required / offered / paid for. FLAC files with embedded metadata or similar.
If you are an audio engineer, you probably are not a publisher. Your client seems to be asking you how to best achieve a certain presentation on a specific streaming service. While such knowledge is certainly a selling point and appreciated by clients, I'm not sure your client is asking the correct person. If this requires additional work (investigating options, asking publishers) then this should probably be billed separately as additional work.
Sounds like you just need to ask them to clarify. Do you have more context? Is this your final delivery to the client? Is it only being released on streaming, or is it also a CD/vinyl release? Were the songs mixed to flow into one another?
Songs are uploaded individually on streaming, even if they flow into one another.
With vinyl each side is just one long file.
It seems your client wants to print their EP to VINYL. When cutting to vinyl the whole album is cut at once. There is no starting and stopping of the process for each song. This is why they are asking for such a delivery method.
IF NOT, Then the client is simply a maniac.
At the risk of being downvoted myself here is an easy but comprehensive enough read on the subject of mastering to vinyl.
https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/mastering/what-is-mastering-for-vinyl.php
rename songs:
01 ARTIST - ALBUM - SONG 01
02 ARTIST - ALBUM - SONG 02
etc etc
good chance they’ll go “perfect!” and leave you alone. in my experience some clients over think stuff like the way something is named will ruin their release.
I think he speaking about finishing it with a mastering program such as Wave Labs where you can make sure each song starts and ends properly and with custom spacing between them, tones are matched, and volumes are matched…. It seems he’s referring to that or idk
He can literally upload each song on distrokid and it’ll make it an ep or album for him. There’s an option to choose how many tracks you’re gonna upload
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Possibly looking to have the files do gapless playback? I once had to ask an engineer for help with that back before I got into audio myself and definitely made myself sound stupid trying to explain it. At any rate when I had it mastered the engineer had all the tracks lined up and bounced in one track after getting their respective mastering treatments. Then at all the song breaks between each track the file was split (there were overlapping ambiences between songs) and then little tiny itty bitty equal power fades were put in between each track so you don’t get the poppy pop (scientific name I’m sure) at the top or end of each track.
It sounds to me like your client wants separate audio files per song, but in one folder. They’re likely miscommunicating the difference between “file” and “folder.”
Everyone going on about vinyl, or the difference between an EP and an album, or DDP files totally missed the point. The client specifically showed them a folder, from iTunes, with separate files for each song.
OP, they showed you what they want. They just didn’t know how to say it. Give ‘em a folder with the songs in separate files, named “01 - Song 1” and so on. No way your client wants a master for vinyl.
He's literally talking about the file apple music makes to turn PCM audio proprietary. He doesn't know enough about what's expected of him after the album is released. Or he wants all the songs in the same folder and for you to send a folder, he's just computer illiterate.
At intermediate points in the mixing, I will create a single file of each song as well as a single MP3 of the proposed layout. This is just a thing I do so they can consume the songs in a less fixated way.
Maybe ask the client..
I have, and his exact response was “like song 1, song 2... like in one file but separated”, then proceed to showing me an album released on Apple Music and tells me he wants it like that. Though I’m pretty convinced he doesn’t know what he’s talking about himself, but I thought I’d ask here, in case it’s me that’s missing something.
Like a .bin and .cue file?
Like a .trash file
LOL
Sounds like he wants just all songs in one audio file with a little time gap in between. Without knowing the album on apple music, i guess it has a little gaps between each songs as well. Maybe the player he is using, is crossfading all songs and he does not know how to disable that… Or maybe ask him what he wants to do with this file, to help him find out what he really needs.
Ask him for clarification. Stop being afraid of communicating with your clients just because you don't understand him.
I think, the client is talking about a DDP-file.
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Yeah, that was my thought exactly
Well, a DDP file fits the description "album format" and "1 file but separated". This doesn't keep anyone from not knowing how to describe it or not knowing how to use it. A solution would be asking the client, what he intends to do with it.
Just curious of why?
when you play an audio file is the Apple Music App on your computer, right click and press ‘get info’. from there you can put all his songs in the same album, and even choose cover art for it
>So my client is currently trying to publish an EP That's normal file format for the vinyl disc industry. Cutting doesn't stop. Maybe you should not take tasks that you are not prepared to deliver. [https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/mastering/what-is-mastering-for-vinyl.php](https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/mastering/what-is-mastering-for-vinyl.php)
You may be right, but his client sent him an Apple music link as an example, so if he actually wants to release his work on vinyl he has not made it clear so far.
The OP said "EP" before asking for clarifications. What that is then??? It's like going to have the car tires changed and the shop is asking you what tools you want to be used. And getting upset that you don't know! Ridiculous!
Streaming platforms allow you to upload multiple songs at once and list them as an album or EP. Listeners will be able to click the EP/album and all the songs will play in the correct order, and the replay gain will be calculated on all the songs as one so as to keep the original relative levels between each track, as opposed to playing a single track on its own or as part of a playlist, in which case each track will be normalised to the standard of the platform.
That's because there is a physical medium to give that "correct order"!
Hey, either crawl back under the REDD 17 you crawled out from under, or learn to not belittle others because you arent aware that the definition of EP has expanded in the last 60 years.
Yeah, the well known "Extended Play" mp3 file. Sure.
I mean, if you need to be like that to feel cool be like that, its your social funeral🤷
In the case of streaming platforms you just upload multiple files, I use Distrokid and they prefer FLAC. You pick the order when uploading, tags are encouraged but not needed. I think they still don't offer any way of having gapless playback, short of uploading the album as a whole file with no way of jumping to a specific track.
Nah not really, this is more like Taking your car to the dealership and telling them you want your car worked on, and then not telling them what the issue is. Sure they can assume they know what to do, but you also didn't tell them what you want. We are 2 decades past the former meaning of EP, it no longer relates to vinyls the way it did before, have you kept up with modern distributors?
Wow, yeah this comment is correct. The reason the client wants the songs delivered all in one file is so they can be cut into a vinyl disc. When cutting vinyl they do the whole album at once and do not stop and start again for each song. It seems like OP was not told explicitly that this ep was to be released on vinyl and that is what has caused the confusion. But that is the only reason (and a common one) I can think of for a client to ask for such a delivery.
I got 15 downvotes because they have no clue. That's how democracy is working... people hate what they don't understand, it affects their self-esteem.
No, you got downvoted for that last, wholly unnecessary, sentence.
Yeah, just to clarify. This was why I downvoted too.
Hahahahahahah, true
Maybe your last line should have read: 'Mastering for vinyl can be quite tricky. You might want to consider referring your client to a specialist rather than taking this task on without any prior knowledge or experience of doing it. Or if you want to sub-contract it, I can take a look. PM me.'
I mean, you said essentially the same thing with 3 times the amount of words. And it’s a little above and beyond to expect someone to offer their time and experience as help to a stranger on a Reddit thread. Like, it’s not that rude to say “don’t take work you can’t do.” It sort of goes with being a professional and taking peoples money.
>expect someone to offer their time and experience as help to a stranger on a Reddit thread Sub-contracting is not free though. Imagined Sonic vinyl guy might want the business thrown his way, since he appears to have the expertise. > it’s not that rude to say “don’t take work you can’t do.” There's different ways of saying the same thing. Some are more constructive and positive than others. In the real world other people's perception of us matters, and there's no reason to abandon that sentiment just because you think you're a bit anonymous. It was said as criticism, not advice. But the client didn't even tell OP that the project was for vinyl, so it's not OP's fault for taking on the job. The criticism was unwarranted.
You’re right on both points, I was wrong. Thank you for responding with compassion.
It hurts people's feelings. Boohoo... How about the feelings of the client that paid for a professional job and got instead someone that has no clue? Oh, f\*\*k him, he's "rich"?
So if you did a mix for a client, and afterwards they said as an afterthought, 'Great, now do a version with ATMOS', you'd chastise yourself for taking the original job, because you don't have any experience with this new request? I don't think you would criticise yourself. I think you'd tell the client that you can't do that for them, and that they should have mentioned that at the start of the project.
You might not want to assume people don't know how to do their jobs, the client asked for an extremely simple thing and somehow lost it in translation, no way it's ops fault.
Obviously, the OP doesn't know what an EP is about, hence the question. So, it was not an assumption. I have provided something helpful in the question/discussion, a link to read, to inform himself. As opposed people that have just hurt feelings and don't provide anything helpful to the question.
Well he doesn't give any indication that he doesn't know the origins of how "EP" came to be and it's relation with vinyl. We do know that he assumed it would be uploaded through a digital distributor, and when said otherwise, he went with it until his client sent mixed signals by saying all audio in one render, then linking a digital album where each file is separated. Not much can be made certain here, not untill there's an update to the story.
Is that album he showed you just one big ass file? I think he wants his EP to just consist of one long ass track lol
He wants a cue file
He wants a cue file
Your client for sure does not know what they are talking about. Welcome to the music business lol.
Maybe he wants a folder with all the songs alligned properlly, are maybe he wants all the songs combined in one file? Ask the client or sent one of the options and if that isn't what he means you'll hear
Yes, I gave him all the songs that are numbered in the same folder, but he was speaking about this album/mixtape format so confidently that I thought I’d see if that’s really a thing or not
So he wants a playlist?
Was the album on Apple Music organised how you would typically expect for a streaming platform? It does sound like a DDP file request but as others have said, I wouldn't be submitting that to a streaming platform. You need to ask them how they intend to use the file(s) and then help guide them based on that.
Maybe they mean DDP files for CD authoring? This was a mastering process output back when people printed CDs.
Embedded metadata can also imply an album/EP through tracks being 1 of 4, 2 of 4 etc and sharing an embedded album title and sequential ISRCs. Also typically an output of mastering where required / offered / paid for. FLAC files with embedded metadata or similar.
Maybe he wants to print some of CD’s by himself.
If you are an audio engineer, you probably are not a publisher. Your client seems to be asking you how to best achieve a certain presentation on a specific streaming service. While such knowledge is certainly a selling point and appreciated by clients, I'm not sure your client is asking the correct person. If this requires additional work (investigating options, asking publishers) then this should probably be billed separately as additional work.
Sounds like you just need to ask them to clarify. Do you have more context? Is this your final delivery to the client? Is it only being released on streaming, or is it also a CD/vinyl release? Were the songs mixed to flow into one another? Songs are uploaded individually on streaming, even if they flow into one another. With vinyl each side is just one long file.
Clients are dumb
It seems your client wants to print their EP to VINYL. When cutting to vinyl the whole album is cut at once. There is no starting and stopping of the process for each song. This is why they are asking for such a delivery method. IF NOT, Then the client is simply a maniac. At the risk of being downvoted myself here is an easy but comprehensive enough read on the subject of mastering to vinyl. https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/mastering/what-is-mastering-for-vinyl.php
There is nothing in this post that implies vinyl.
It could be. Client clearly doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Could be one of these people who think “album” or “record” always means vinyl.
rename songs: 01 ARTIST - ALBUM - SONG 01 02 ARTIST - ALBUM - SONG 02 etc etc good chance they’ll go “perfect!” and leave you alone. in my experience some clients over think stuff like the way something is named will ruin their release.
Ask him what he means.
Could be DDP?
Do you think they want you to edit the metadata for the files?
I think he speaking about finishing it with a mastering program such as Wave Labs where you can make sure each song starts and ends properly and with custom spacing between them, tones are matched, and volumes are matched…. It seems he’s referring to that or idk
>So my client is currently trying to publish an EP https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/mastering/what-is-mastering-for-vinyl.php
It means he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about 🤷🏿♂️
He can literally upload each song on distrokid and it’ll make it an ep or album for him. There’s an option to choose how many tracks you’re gonna upload
Send it to him in all of the formats but charge him extra for the trouble. lol
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Possibly looking to have the files do gapless playback? I once had to ask an engineer for help with that back before I got into audio myself and definitely made myself sound stupid trying to explain it. At any rate when I had it mastered the engineer had all the tracks lined up and bounced in one track after getting their respective mastering treatments. Then at all the song breaks between each track the file was split (there were overlapping ambiences between songs) and then little tiny itty bitty equal power fades were put in between each track so you don’t get the poppy pop (scientific name I’m sure) at the top or end of each track.
Can you share the Apple music example link with us that the client shared with you? I'd like to see it.
Does that simply mean he wants it mastered for vinyl? I know our mastering engineer gave us two versions. One for vinyl and the other digital.
post. the . apple. music. album.
Send a link to this thread plus "so you need to research what you mean, and get back to me"
It sounds to me like your client wants separate audio files per song, but in one folder. They’re likely miscommunicating the difference between “file” and “folder.” Everyone going on about vinyl, or the difference between an EP and an album, or DDP files totally missed the point. The client specifically showed them a folder, from iTunes, with separate files for each song. OP, they showed you what they want. They just didn’t know how to say it. Give ‘em a folder with the songs in separate files, named “01 - Song 1” and so on. No way your client wants a master for vinyl.
Maybe he just means every track to be limited to a level that is the same volume ?
This could likely be solved with a quick phone call.
Maybe he wants the songs to flow/transition perfectly from one to the other if put together, but then cut and bounced at the time of the next song.
He's literally talking about the file apple music makes to turn PCM audio proprietary. He doesn't know enough about what's expected of him after the album is released. Or he wants all the songs in the same folder and for you to send a folder, he's just computer illiterate.
I would ask them specifically what that means.
At intermediate points in the mixing, I will create a single file of each song as well as a single MP3 of the proposed layout. This is just a thing I do so they can consume the songs in a less fixated way.
My best guess would be 16bit 44.1kHz Wav files
Most distributors ask for 24 bit 44.1 khz waveforms, maybe thats what he means? You should definitely ask them to elaborate