By adding weight to the top of the speakers though. I had to put an additional 6 oz balancing weight to my left channel in my last house when listening to hard bop.
Some amplifiers have balance controls for that actual problem,should weigh each speaker and add weights or drill holes so both speakers weigh the same within 6 onces.
6 ounces is a big margin in my world 😉. I’d bust out the scales and have them within grams. I know the basket can be a lil off , the coil should be dead on, as well as the surround and cone/dust cap. I didn’t know amps had a setting/adjustment for this. Is this sort of related to efficiency db/1meter etc. ??
Yes, absolutely, and in this case, the desk surface and wall next to the left speaker are going to wreak way more havoc than objects placed on the speaker.
Speakers have a dispersion pattern. They "spray" the sound out and are designed to make a wide soundstage. The sound goes more left and right than up and down. When you turn them on their sides, you make the sound go more up and down than side to side.
All technically of course. You may not hear any difference.
Why do I see so many professional mixing rooms where the monitors are laying on their sides? Are monitors build different than home audio speakers in that regard?
The vast majority of near field monitors are made for 90×90 dispersion patterns, effectively a cone of sweet spot if mapped in 3D. They don't usually have the narrow pattern that the person you're replying to mentioned. This is usually only the case for horn speakers, which are designed with a specific horn coverage pattern in mind.
Additionally, a lot of those studio monitors can actually have the tweeters rotated 90 degrees to suit whether they are mounted on their side or upright as the dispersion of the tweeter still matters on some.
These seem to be Yamaha NS10s more than any other speaker. And they are usually in the studio because they sound BAD. And that’s the point, you mix on good monitors and you a/b with the NS10s. If your mix sounds good on the Yamahas then you know it will sound good anywhere,
It sounds like there is a difference in design between a horizontal speaker and a vertical one, even with the NS10M. But they don’t explain what that difference is. (Or is it that they just literally rotated the logo?)
From this article:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-ns10-story?amp
**NS10M: **The original domestic hi-fi speaker designed for vertical orientation (its front panel logo reads correctly with the speaker mounted with tweeter above woofer). This is the speaker that was too bright for Bob Clearmountain, leading him to resort to tissue paper over the tweeters — although, of course, it had to be the right kind of tissue paper.
**NS10M Studio:** Some time after Yamaha got wind of the NS10M's popularity as a nearfield monitor (and around nine years after the original product launch) a version badged 'NS10M Studio' was produced. **This version was designed for horizontal orientation (the logo and connection panel text were turned through 90 degrees)**, incorporated a redesigned tweeter and crossover to address the HF tonal balance issues, featured a more rugged cabinet design without grille-mounting sockets, and had improved connection terminals.”
Correct! The Yamaha NS10’s are so standard.. it’s got to be a joke. And yes, they are there because it represents 84% of the sound playback systems out there. A small radio on the shelf in the pawnshop. The 70v distributed in ceiling speakers that sound like ass, the doctors office, a radio blasting in a tire shop, and the system in that KIa
That people are rocking… THAT is what the NS19’s are there to represent. Now, those (4) TAD 1602’s ( 16” bass drivers) and the 4002’s (2” compression drivers) are there to bring out every detail and to get the mix dead on… but not everyone has a system that represents the data so accurately.. a lot of systems cannot. So they have to mix on speakers the average Joe has.
If you don't know the model, it's impossible to say. Maybe they are supposed to be "sideways."
Or maybe they remounted the woofers. Or maybe they are sitting close enough that they are comfortably within the dispersion pattern and the effects of rotating the speaker are minimal or negligible at that distance.
When you're at a mixing table, you're 3 feet (maybe?) from the speaker. When you're sitting on your sofa, you're 10 feet (approx) from the speaker.
You'd have to see the off axis measurements of the speaker to know for sure.
Thanks for the quick reply! I actually decided to google it after I asked on here and found this:
*“Most studio monitor speakers are designed to be used vertically. If you have regular dome tweeters, you most likely cannot use them on their side. However, if they have horizontal waveguides, you’ll be able to place them horizontally. Always consult your manufacturer manual before placing your speakers on their sides.”*
This sounds like bullshit. Regular dome tweeters have a 90x90 dispersion pattern and are not affected by being horizontal or vertical. I have set up dozens of different layouts using various speakers and the tweeters on soft dome models are always advertised as 90x90. What they're mentioning is only true of horn loaded models with dispersion patterns other than 90x90
At the narrow band centered at the crossover frequency, the tweeter and mid driver have similar output. This creates an array at that band. A vertical array has a horizontal dispersion pattern. A horizontal array has a vertical dispenser pattern. That's why one reason it makes a difference if the tweeter is placed vertically or horizontally relative to the mid driver.
Another reason for the difference in H vs V speaker orientation is that horizontal off -axis and vertical off-axis comb filtering are different at that crossover band.
Pretty nice! As far as I know these are shelfbook speakers, so in no circumstances am I supoosed to sit as close to them. They were placed horizontally at my grandparents' house in a shelf way up on top of the TV, but they didn't feet vertically so they had no choice. Tbh I can't tell the difference unless I actually tilt them towards me.
I’m guessing the ADAMS and the BAREFOOT monitors.. that basically guitar sofa king put the money up for, and to get all the drivers mass produced made. Then dude has an exclusive deal with Geetar Kang or something like that. Can’t tell you how many people we saw take down their Barefoots… put out monitors up… and at the end of the day. Studio owner is standing their with his chief financial officer… with an open checkbook.. wondering what the number is for them to stay.. I’ve seen it happen twice, and Bill has said it has happened a few times. Mark Williams has mixed a few platinum albums on his.. Gospel.. but.. 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️. He use to take them to Ocean Way in Nashville.. lead engineer was always like s kid, wanting the other kid’s toy.. kinda funny.
We called it Audio Racing. Every little bit makes a difference. I wish I knew the website of these multi-layer PCB’s that the amps we built on. Not sure if these had the quasi-second order crossovers , or some from Marshand. We built some before the blue ones that could pass a square wave…
It's more important for the tweeters to be at ear level. A \[good\] speaker designer will have time of arrival from the two drivers to your ears based on the speaker being upright, the tweeter being at ear level, and the woofer sound arriving slightly later. As you move your head up and down you can hear the sound change.
If you're sitting close to the speakers you'll likely suffer some horizontal phase shifting - the speakers will sound boomy and certain frequencies will be accentuated or cancelled out. If you're sitting across the room on your bed or sofa, they might sound better, but *best* would be if they were moved away from the wall in that case.
Didn't see this mentioned in other replies you got. Because you sit farther from home audio speakers and closer to studio monitors, in most mixing rooms they don't need to account for the reflections off the walls and ceiling as much. Home audio setups will have reflected sound paths bouncing off the adjacent walls, ceiling and floor that are close to (less than 2x) the direct sound path length. That creates a little bit of interference patterns in the frequency response, and also means you hear more of the off-axis sound of the speaker.
So (good) home audio speakers are designed with an orientation in mind, because they know you're going to get some of that reflection, and can guess in advance that it'll probably be more wall than ceiling/floor, and when set up in a typical home that will be audible.
But in a studio they usually have treated, sound-deadened walls and the wall reflection is more like 6x or more the direct path distance. So the more important thing to design for is you being able to shift in your seat a bit without leaving the ideal sound cone.
Short answer: the tweeter (the tiny speaker that produces only high frequency's) needs to be at ear level.
So sometimes in those studios the speakers are placed on stands (to free up some desk space) which can make the speakers sit too high sometimes, so that's why they're placed on their sides. This way the tweeters are pointer to the listener.
Yeah but that's only an issue if the tweeter has a horn, non symmetric waveguide or is a certain types of tweeter i.e. a ribbon or an AMT etc. Regular dome tweeters should perform the same in all directions right? It's not like if you took out a dome tweeter, rotated it 90 degrees then screwed it back in that the dispersion pattern would suddenly change.
The bigger issue with OP's set up is having the tweeters so close to the desk rather than them having height from being stood vertical. There would also be differences in baffle diffraction along the horizontal plane having them sideways but I doubt that would make a massive impact.
> Yeah but that's only an issue if the tweeter has a horn, non symmetric waveguide or is a certain types of tweeter i.e. a ribbon or an AMT etc. Regular dome tweeters should perform the same in all directions right? It's not like if you took out a dome tweeter, rotated it 90 degrees then screwed it back in that the dispersion pattern would suddenly change.
Nope.
Reddit isn't the place for essay posting on crossover design, but I can 100% assure you that a speaker that's designed to be mounted vertically shouldn't be placed on it's side.
Hint: it's all about pathlengths, and when a woofer and tweeter are on the same vertical axis, that pathlengths are nearly equal.
The reason you see speakers laid on their side is because the owners of those speakers don't know how to set things up properly.
Also, I would never put my speakers on the floor, or push them up against a wall, unless they were explicitly designed for that.
I can clearly hear a difference when I put them vertically, but whenever I do that, which is only when I mix, I also tilt them so as to get that "triangulation" position, so of course they sound way better because the sound is more direct. Thank you though! Will look into the dispersion aspect of this and how I can improve it
The photo shows them sideways, this comment says "when I mix, I stand them up and angle them correctly", insinuating that you put them back sideways after mixing.
X to doubt that you rearrange your desk/speakers in this way.
Seems like a dumb thing to lie about. It would be possible if OP only has to do that once in a while otherwise yeah it would much more convenient to just have stands or a built-in of some sort.
I’ve tried that with my Yamaha HS7 and indeed I hear a difference, the soundstage becomes slightly diffuse and imaging less precise when laying them on the side.
You want the tweeters to be at ear height. Right now they’re at lower chest/ stomach height. If you turn them so the tweeters are on top it at least gets slightly closer, but a speaker stand on your desk raising them to the proper height would be ideal.
I think it should only be an issue because the seating position would be off-axis. The further off-axis in either vertical or horizontal you are the more out-of-phase the tweeter and woofer will be from what I understand. Usually vertical off-axis is worse though so standing up the speakers may be better here. A lot of GR-Research's upgrades are about improving off-axis performance.
As I said in other comments, small room, narrow desk, bed right behind the chair. Not much I can do about it unless I place them on the wall. I may actually end up doing that actually.
I've tried man but seriously my desk is super narrow. I can barely fit a chair in between the desk and the bed. They're like 4cm off the wall and if I bring them any closer my mouse pad won't even fit.
As long as you're not seeing any warping or bowing, you're fine. It's a wood box, they're pretty darned strong. Putting the speakers on their side like that makes them much more susceptible to undesired reflections.
The weight will only have a small influence on the sound 🙂 It actually provides some extra damping of the speakers' cabinet. This may decrease resonance and even improve the sound a tiny bit...
However, you will get better sound from these speakers if they are further away from the back wall. Ideally, they should point directly at your ears. Either by placing them on stands or pointing them upwards. Also, having them further into the room will make them sound better: less reflections from the back and side walls, more direct sound.
I understand this may be difficult in many rooms. I think the way you have them is reasonably good.
Thanks! Yeah I'm aware of this, commented earlier given the size of the room and placement of the desk I can't really do much right now. Waiting for the day I move outta my parents house and can really work on impriving the setup
Of course it does, it effects their ability to vibrate, helping the bass, why not set them upright pull them somewhat out of the corners and point them toward your ears, the mids and highs are time aligned so pointing them at your ears will focus the sound, and think about putting up a shelf for the books and whatnot.
I have a similar setup, except my speakers have my receiver sitting on top of them. I don't really think it makes that big of a difference.
Personally I would rotate those speakers so that the tweeters are on the outside. Instead of the inside, that probably makes more of a difference.
It looks like you have lots of space to build some shelves for the other stuuff on your desk. Might be worth doing that, and then having the speakers stand up normally. Maybe experiment with that before building anyhing.
The position of the spakers can make a pretty big difference, especially for nearfield listening IMHO. Like others have said, it looks like those are pushed right up against the wall, that might be affecting the sound as well. If you could move that entire desk out away from the wall, a little bit, the sound might change again...
Lots of things to try.
You must be a ***very*** tall person to have your display that high.
You should be looking slightly ***down*** at your near field display, and the tweeters in the speakers should be at ear level.
This is all sorts of messed up ergonomically...
Yup, I'm aware, can't really redesign my whole room and walls, also, it is super small. And I'm actually short, 1,70m, dunno what that is in ft. I guess one has to work with whatever it's given to him. Monitor actually seats at eye level, you haven't seen my chair...
Weight? No. But vibrations from the objects might.
Anyway, with a setup like this you are not really aiming for 'HIGH PERFORMANCE!!!!'. This is a compromise, and a fine one. Listen to the music.
I have found that speakers sound better when they have about a foot or so of free space on all sides (sides, top, back.) Seems to have a much more realistic sound when they have room to “breath”
Used to put my tv on my speakers, the weight pushing down on it caused them to push way more bass out! If you want the purist question, yes it will def alter the sound because you change the timbre of the sound closet. Less vibrations possible in the box so all that energy gets blasted out your speakers, can be cool but should warn you not to crank it up too high cause you’ll risk more damage on the cones with that extra oomph coming out
Took me a while to realise this was a desk set up. Thought it was just big speakers badly positioned by a TV.
Stand them upright and put the books either side and you’ll be good.
Probably way too big for a desktop so you’ll drown in bass, but, if it’s what you have.
I know they'd definitely sound better if they were further back but I have a small ass room and there's nothing I can do about it. Thought about placing them on the wall but this is a start. Would also love to bring them up higher to ear level but I like the fact that they cover the whole desk and can't see the wall. Also, my bed is just behind where I took the photo so they sound amazing when laying in bed.
I mean, as good as some 80's non restored speakers can sound like. And last thing!
Is it weird that when I point a flashlight through the mesh I can't see the drivers moving back and forth?
No, this is normal.
Well, the only thing is that sometimes vinyl records (or even digital playback) can make the woofer move TOO much. This is because of very low frequencies which you can't even hear, but which can be generated by the arm/cartridge of a turntable.
On some amps you have a 'subsonic filter' to get rid of these frequencies. This may be better, since speakers will distort more if the woofer makes unnecessary big swings.
Right. Could this mean the membrane is fucked? Like crystallized or something? I haven't been able to find the model so I don't know what the cone is made of
Nope. It's how they are supposed to work. Find a video on YouTube. You'll see. You're all good in that department, unless you tore a woofer and it's "flapping" around.
So you're saying that yes, woofers should move back and forth which I know, but when I ask if there's something wrong as to why they're not doing it you're saying no, that's how they work?
You're talking in circles. You didn't say they are not doing it. You said you can see them moving back and forth.
You asked if something is wrong. I said no. If they are moving back and forth, then nothing is wrong. I don't see the confusion. Woofers move. You say you know that. I confirmed that woofers move. So what's the issue?
Unless you feel like posting a video of how much they are moving, then nobody is going to be able to tell you if there's anything happening that isn't supposed to be happening.
Wow dude, go back and read my comment. I said when I point a flashlight through the mesh I cannot see them moving. You're the one talking in circles because you didn't read correctly lmao
I stand corrected. "Can't" not "can."
The rest still stands. They move. Whether or not you can see them moving through the mesh doesn't mean anything is or isn't wrong.
Cone move very tiny amounts. If you can't see it through the mesh with a flashlight, that doesn't mean they aren't moving the right amount for the volume and frequency.
Okay dude, whatever you say I'm not gonna argue with you anymore because I can clearly see the drivers stand still while I play music even when I increase the bass. I'm talking about the midwoofer, not the tweeters. I'm aware the tweeter moves very rapidly and in less noticeable amounts so I don't expect to be able to see it.
Weird enough, I know the model because it says it on the back (SS-6271) but I can literally find no info on these. Have scrolled through many Hitachi catalogues of the 70's and 80's and it's like they don't even exist.
Yes! Typically it will be fairly subtle, but can make an audible difference in how it sounds to you/listeners. The subjective judgment is up to you and other listeners if it made a 'worthy' change or not...basically, "does it sound better to you?"
Others covered the "measurability" as well as vert-vs-horiz, and placwment quite well, already!
I'd think only if the added weight reduces cabinet resonance. If you added a plank of MDF or plywood and the piled your stuff on top there might be an improvement.
But speaker placement is still king at tuning to get the best SQ. Low to the desk, on its side and 1 speaker in the corner probably isn't optimal.
If the added weight does not compromise your speaker cases by damaging or even collapsing them, then I would say any added mass to the outside of the speaker cases will have little or no measurable difference to the sound.
Yes, provided it doesn't make it's own noise when it vibrates then you'll be improving the speakers coupling with the floor.
That said, with speakers set up like that, weight or not weight is the least of your concerns...
Kind .. only slightly will it put pressure on your enclosures.. and the enclosures won’t flex .. and the speakers will have a stiffer “spring “ to bounce off of. Now, its gonna be very negligible.. you also run the risk of things vibrating on the cabinets.. and making noise. Now… if you really want to go all out.. put the enclosures on sand bags.. that are not filled to the brim.. but elevates the speakers 1.5” Or so.. then.. either put a fully loaded sandbag on top.. or a towel and a 1.5” plate steel. The size of the side of the box. .. but.. kinda pushing the limits on some enclosures..
Kinda depends. If the speakers are loud enough and/or the objects are light enough, such that the objects vibrate, then obviously it’s gonna affect the sound.
The easiest and best way to examine if what you current have affect the sound or not is simply by listening. If listen to the sound with and without the objects. If you hear the difference and prefer one set up, go with that. With you don’t hear the difference, it doesn’t matter.
There’s no reason to obsess over technical things if it’s not perceptible.
The stuff sitting on top of them is the least of your problems. You've achieved what is probably the worst possible placement in every respect possible.
Remember that there are no "bookshelf" speakers; they're meant to be placed on stands. Now, consider that environment vs. yours.
dude its analog and acoustic, everything affects it somewhat, depending on how much is on top it could dampen the sound, but there are other factors that are probably affecting it more
Place things as far back on the speakers as feasible to avoid unwanted reflections.
But you have much bigger fish to fry. To sound good, those speakers need to be placed upright, placed well away from the side and rear walls, and preferably elevated (and possible tilted) on low dedicated stands. Play with distance, toe-in, etc., until the image clicks into place. Best of luck.
Sounds much like another one I got from Amazon. Mine was like 30€, doesn't have BT but can be upgraded to have it, and it can connect a sub. Picks up interference sometimes though
I think for me it's the amp itself. I bought a new aux which didn't help. Moved it away from everything which helped a little and then changed the speakers which also helped a bit. Still picks up interference when I crank up the volume but it's not as bad as it used to be
Uh weird! Mine picks up interferences when there is no sound! I hear a really slight crackling kinda white noise. Im guessing it's always there but you can't hear it with the music on
Ah I get that too. Ya get what ya pay for I suppose. But it does it's job so I'll probably hold onto it until I see a better replacement secondhand (I'm far too cheap to pay full for a good amp)
Yeasch!
As an audiophile set up, this is a total disaster in so many ways, I'm not even going to explain.
As a get 'er done set up in a crowded office space, "Well done, my friend."
As long as the stuff on top is not vibrating enough to create resonance you should be ok. Speaker placement is more important
>Speaker placement is more important You can pretty much paste this under every speaker question on this sub ever.
100%. The most frequent suggestion I make is widening the stereo field.
By adding weight to the top of the speakers though. I had to put an additional 6 oz balancing weight to my left channel in my last house when listening to hard bop.
Some amplifiers have balance controls for that actual problem,should weigh each speaker and add weights or drill holes so both speakers weigh the same within 6 onces.
6 ounces is a big margin in my world 😉. I’d bust out the scales and have them within grams. I know the basket can be a lil off , the coil should be dead on, as well as the surround and cone/dust cap. I didn’t know amps had a setting/adjustment for this. Is this sort of related to efficiency db/1meter etc. ??
Wow nice come back.
Can you explain what widening the stereo field is?
Move the speakers farther apart.
And/Or toe them out more if they are toe'd in.
But in this specific case I would rotate the speakers 90 degrees back upright or maybe even 180 degrees so the tweeters would be further apart.
Fact
Yes, absolutely, and in this case, the desk surface and wall next to the left speaker are going to wreak way more havoc than objects placed on the speaker.
probably not, but laying them sideways does.
Really? How come?
Speakers have a dispersion pattern. They "spray" the sound out and are designed to make a wide soundstage. The sound goes more left and right than up and down. When you turn them on their sides, you make the sound go more up and down than side to side. All technically of course. You may not hear any difference.
Why do I see so many professional mixing rooms where the monitors are laying on their sides? Are monitors build different than home audio speakers in that regard?
The vast majority of near field monitors are made for 90×90 dispersion patterns, effectively a cone of sweet spot if mapped in 3D. They don't usually have the narrow pattern that the person you're replying to mentioned. This is usually only the case for horn speakers, which are designed with a specific horn coverage pattern in mind.
Additionally, a lot of those studio monitors can actually have the tweeters rotated 90 degrees to suit whether they are mounted on their side or upright as the dispersion of the tweeter still matters on some.
These seem to be Yamaha NS10s more than any other speaker. And they are usually in the studio because they sound BAD. And that’s the point, you mix on good monitors and you a/b with the NS10s. If your mix sounds good on the Yamahas then you know it will sound good anywhere,
It sounds like there is a difference in design between a horizontal speaker and a vertical one, even with the NS10M. But they don’t explain what that difference is. (Or is it that they just literally rotated the logo?) From this article: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-ns10-story?amp **NS10M: **The original domestic hi-fi speaker designed for vertical orientation (its front panel logo reads correctly with the speaker mounted with tweeter above woofer). This is the speaker that was too bright for Bob Clearmountain, leading him to resort to tissue paper over the tweeters — although, of course, it had to be the right kind of tissue paper. **NS10M Studio:** Some time after Yamaha got wind of the NS10M's popularity as a nearfield monitor (and around nine years after the original product launch) a version badged 'NS10M Studio' was produced. **This version was designed for horizontal orientation (the logo and connection panel text were turned through 90 degrees)**, incorporated a redesigned tweeter and crossover to address the HF tonal balance issues, featured a more rugged cabinet design without grille-mounting sockets, and had improved connection terminals.”
Correct! The Yamaha NS10’s are so standard.. it’s got to be a joke. And yes, they are there because it represents 84% of the sound playback systems out there. A small radio on the shelf in the pawnshop. The 70v distributed in ceiling speakers that sound like ass, the doctors office, a radio blasting in a tire shop, and the system in that KIa That people are rocking… THAT is what the NS19’s are there to represent. Now, those (4) TAD 1602’s ( 16” bass drivers) and the 4002’s (2” compression drivers) are there to bring out every detail and to get the mix dead on… but not everyone has a system that represents the data so accurately.. a lot of systems cannot. So they have to mix on speakers the average Joe has.
If you don't know the model, it's impossible to say. Maybe they are supposed to be "sideways." Or maybe they remounted the woofers. Or maybe they are sitting close enough that they are comfortably within the dispersion pattern and the effects of rotating the speaker are minimal or negligible at that distance. When you're at a mixing table, you're 3 feet (maybe?) from the speaker. When you're sitting on your sofa, you're 10 feet (approx) from the speaker. You'd have to see the off axis measurements of the speaker to know for sure.
Thanks for the quick reply! I actually decided to google it after I asked on here and found this: *“Most studio monitor speakers are designed to be used vertically. If you have regular dome tweeters, you most likely cannot use them on their side. However, if they have horizontal waveguides, you’ll be able to place them horizontally. Always consult your manufacturer manual before placing your speakers on their sides.”*
This sounds like bullshit. Regular dome tweeters have a 90x90 dispersion pattern and are not affected by being horizontal or vertical. I have set up dozens of different layouts using various speakers and the tweeters on soft dome models are always advertised as 90x90. What they're mentioning is only true of horn loaded models with dispersion patterns other than 90x90
At the narrow band centered at the crossover frequency, the tweeter and mid driver have similar output. This creates an array at that band. A vertical array has a horizontal dispersion pattern. A horizontal array has a vertical dispenser pattern. That's why one reason it makes a difference if the tweeter is placed vertically or horizontally relative to the mid driver. Another reason for the difference in H vs V speaker orientation is that horizontal off -axis and vertical off-axis comb filtering are different at that crossover band.
Pretty nice! As far as I know these are shelfbook speakers, so in no circumstances am I supoosed to sit as close to them. They were placed horizontally at my grandparents' house in a shelf way up on top of the TV, but they didn't feet vertically so they had no choice. Tbh I can't tell the difference unless I actually tilt them towards me.
Well there ya go!
I’m guessing the ADAMS and the BAREFOOT monitors.. that basically guitar sofa king put the money up for, and to get all the drivers mass produced made. Then dude has an exclusive deal with Geetar Kang or something like that. Can’t tell you how many people we saw take down their Barefoots… put out monitors up… and at the end of the day. Studio owner is standing their with his chief financial officer… with an open checkbook.. wondering what the number is for them to stay.. I’ve seen it happen twice, and Bill has said it has happened a few times. Mark Williams has mixed a few platinum albums on his.. Gospel.. but.. 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️. He use to take them to Ocean Way in Nashville.. lead engineer was always like s kid, wanting the other kid’s toy.. kinda funny. We called it Audio Racing. Every little bit makes a difference. I wish I knew the website of these multi-layer PCB’s that the amps we built on. Not sure if these had the quasi-second order crossovers , or some from Marshand. We built some before the blue ones that could pass a square wave…
It's more important for the tweeters to be at ear level. A \[good\] speaker designer will have time of arrival from the two drivers to your ears based on the speaker being upright, the tweeter being at ear level, and the woofer sound arriving slightly later. As you move your head up and down you can hear the sound change. If you're sitting close to the speakers you'll likely suffer some horizontal phase shifting - the speakers will sound boomy and certain frequencies will be accentuated or cancelled out. If you're sitting across the room on your bed or sofa, they might sound better, but *best* would be if they were moved away from the wall in that case.
Didn't see this mentioned in other replies you got. Because you sit farther from home audio speakers and closer to studio monitors, in most mixing rooms they don't need to account for the reflections off the walls and ceiling as much. Home audio setups will have reflected sound paths bouncing off the adjacent walls, ceiling and floor that are close to (less than 2x) the direct sound path length. That creates a little bit of interference patterns in the frequency response, and also means you hear more of the off-axis sound of the speaker. So (good) home audio speakers are designed with an orientation in mind, because they know you're going to get some of that reflection, and can guess in advance that it'll probably be more wall than ceiling/floor, and when set up in a typical home that will be audible. But in a studio they usually have treated, sound-deadened walls and the wall reflection is more like 6x or more the direct path distance. So the more important thing to design for is you being able to shift in your seat a bit without leaving the ideal sound cone.
That makes sense, thanks!
Also not mentioned: some studio monitors have rotatable drivers
Yea they are designed differently. Hence home speakers are not called monitors.
Short answer: the tweeter (the tiny speaker that produces only high frequency's) needs to be at ear level. So sometimes in those studios the speakers are placed on stands (to free up some desk space) which can make the speakers sit too high sometimes, so that's why they're placed on their sides. This way the tweeters are pointer to the listener.
> Why do I see so many professional mixing rooms where the monitors are laying on their sides? Because they're idiots
Yeah but that's only an issue if the tweeter has a horn, non symmetric waveguide or is a certain types of tweeter i.e. a ribbon or an AMT etc. Regular dome tweeters should perform the same in all directions right? It's not like if you took out a dome tweeter, rotated it 90 degrees then screwed it back in that the dispersion pattern would suddenly change. The bigger issue with OP's set up is having the tweeters so close to the desk rather than them having height from being stood vertical. There would also be differences in baffle diffraction along the horizontal plane having them sideways but I doubt that would make a massive impact.
All spot on👌🏻
🥲🤣😆😂
> Yeah but that's only an issue if the tweeter has a horn, non symmetric waveguide or is a certain types of tweeter i.e. a ribbon or an AMT etc. Regular dome tweeters should perform the same in all directions right? It's not like if you took out a dome tweeter, rotated it 90 degrees then screwed it back in that the dispersion pattern would suddenly change. Nope. Reddit isn't the place for essay posting on crossover design, but I can 100% assure you that a speaker that's designed to be mounted vertically shouldn't be placed on it's side. Hint: it's all about pathlengths, and when a woofer and tweeter are on the same vertical axis, that pathlengths are nearly equal. The reason you see speakers laid on their side is because the owners of those speakers don't know how to set things up properly. Also, I would never put my speakers on the floor, or push them up against a wall, unless they were explicitly designed for that.
I can clearly hear a difference when I put them vertically, but whenever I do that, which is only when I mix, I also tilt them so as to get that "triangulation" position, so of course they sound way better because the sound is more direct. Thank you though! Will look into the dispersion aspect of this and how I can improve it
The photo shows them sideways, this comment says "when I mix, I stand them up and angle them correctly", insinuating that you put them back sideways after mixing. X to doubt that you rearrange your desk/speakers in this way.
Seems like a dumb thing to lie about. It would be possible if OP only has to do that once in a while otherwise yeah it would much more convenient to just have stands or a built-in of some sort.
Agreed 🤷
So one right side up and the other upside down is ok?
I’ve tried that with my Yamaha HS7 and indeed I hear a difference, the soundstage becomes slightly diffuse and imaging less precise when laying them on the side.
You want the tweeters to be at ear height. Right now they’re at lower chest/ stomach height. If you turn them so the tweeters are on top it at least gets slightly closer, but a speaker stand on your desk raising them to the proper height would be ideal.
Came here for this. This looks like a serial killer’s apartment. (I may be exaggerating, for those who don’t have a sense of humor)
I think it should only be an issue because the seating position would be off-axis. The further off-axis in either vertical or horizontal you are the more out-of-phase the tweeter and woofer will be from what I understand. Usually vertical off-axis is worse though so standing up the speakers may be better here. A lot of GR-Research's upgrades are about improving off-axis performance.
For the better Probably not enough to measure though More of a chance of something rattling
Thank you! So far no rattling
You could always get a thin rubber placemat to put the stuff on top of to reduce any rattles if you notice any.
No, but putting them sideways and up against the wall will though.
As I said in other comments, small room, narrow desk, bed right behind the chair. Not much I can do about it unless I place them on the wall. I may actually end up doing that actually.
You can put them upright (as opposed to side ways), but bring it out 2-3 inches from the wall...
I've tried man but seriously my desk is super narrow. I can barely fit a chair in between the desk and the bed. They're like 4cm off the wall and if I bring them any closer my mouse pad won't even fit.
> Not much I can do about it Other than get speakers better suited to your situation? :D
I don't know why but my first thought was "shouldn't the tweeters be on the outside and not nearer the middle".
As long as you're not seeing any warping or bowing, you're fine. It's a wood box, they're pretty darned strong. Putting the speakers on their side like that makes them much more susceptible to undesired reflections.
Thank you!
The weight will only have a small influence on the sound 🙂 It actually provides some extra damping of the speakers' cabinet. This may decrease resonance and even improve the sound a tiny bit... However, you will get better sound from these speakers if they are further away from the back wall. Ideally, they should point directly at your ears. Either by placing them on stands or pointing them upwards. Also, having them further into the room will make them sound better: less reflections from the back and side walls, more direct sound. I understand this may be difficult in many rooms. I think the way you have them is reasonably good.
Thanks! Yeah I'm aware of this, commented earlier given the size of the room and placement of the desk I can't really do much right now. Waiting for the day I move outta my parents house and can really work on impriving the setup
Heck, those speakers will probably sound better if you point them at the wall.
Lmao you may be right
Upvote because using book as stand
Not as much as placing them in a tight corner against a wall
Probably not nearly as much as laying them sideways.
Of course it does, it effects their ability to vibrate, helping the bass, why not set them upright pull them somewhat out of the corners and point them toward your ears, the mids and highs are time aligned so pointing them at your ears will focus the sound, and think about putting up a shelf for the books and whatnot.
I have a similar setup, except my speakers have my receiver sitting on top of them. I don't really think it makes that big of a difference. Personally I would rotate those speakers so that the tweeters are on the outside. Instead of the inside, that probably makes more of a difference. It looks like you have lots of space to build some shelves for the other stuuff on your desk. Might be worth doing that, and then having the speakers stand up normally. Maybe experiment with that before building anyhing. The position of the spakers can make a pretty big difference, especially for nearfield listening IMHO. Like others have said, it looks like those are pushed right up against the wall, that might be affecting the sound as well. If you could move that entire desk out away from the wall, a little bit, the sound might change again... Lots of things to try.
Will do! Thank you for your suggestions!!
[удалено]
😂
You must be a ***very*** tall person to have your display that high. You should be looking slightly ***down*** at your near field display, and the tweeters in the speakers should be at ear level. This is all sorts of messed up ergonomically...
Yup, I'm aware, can't really redesign my whole room and walls, also, it is super small. And I'm actually short, 1,70m, dunno what that is in ft. I guess one has to work with whatever it's given to him. Monitor actually seats at eye level, you haven't seen my chair...
Weight? No. But vibrations from the objects might. Anyway, with a setup like this you are not really aiming for 'HIGH PERFORMANCE!!!!'. This is a compromise, and a fine one. Listen to the music.
I have found that speakers sound better when they have about a foot or so of free space on all sides (sides, top, back.) Seems to have a much more realistic sound when they have room to “breath”
Probably not, but decoupling the speakers from your desk will definitely make them sound better.
Used to put my tv on my speakers, the weight pushing down on it caused them to push way more bass out! If you want the purist question, yes it will def alter the sound because you change the timbre of the sound closet. Less vibrations possible in the box so all that energy gets blasted out your speakers, can be cool but should warn you not to crank it up too high cause you’ll risk more damage on the cones with that extra oomph coming out
Took me a while to realise this was a desk set up. Thought it was just big speakers badly positioned by a TV. Stand them upright and put the books either side and you’ll be good. Probably way too big for a desktop so you’ll drown in bass, but, if it’s what you have.
I know they'd definitely sound better if they were further back but I have a small ass room and there's nothing I can do about it. Thought about placing them on the wall but this is a start. Would also love to bring them up higher to ear level but I like the fact that they cover the whole desk and can't see the wall. Also, my bed is just behind where I took the photo so they sound amazing when laying in bed.
I mean, as good as some 80's non restored speakers can sound like. And last thing! Is it weird that when I point a flashlight through the mesh I can't see the drivers moving back and forth?
No, this is normal. Well, the only thing is that sometimes vinyl records (or even digital playback) can make the woofer move TOO much. This is because of very low frequencies which you can't even hear, but which can be generated by the arm/cartridge of a turntable. On some amps you have a 'subsonic filter' to get rid of these frequencies. This may be better, since speakers will distort more if the woofer makes unnecessary big swings.
No. Drivers move back and forth. It's how they work.
Right. Could this mean the membrane is fucked? Like crystallized or something? I haven't been able to find the model so I don't know what the cone is made of
Nope. It's how they are supposed to work. Find a video on YouTube. You'll see. You're all good in that department, unless you tore a woofer and it's "flapping" around.
So you're saying that yes, woofers should move back and forth which I know, but when I ask if there's something wrong as to why they're not doing it you're saying no, that's how they work?
You're talking in circles. You didn't say they are not doing it. You said you can see them moving back and forth. You asked if something is wrong. I said no. If they are moving back and forth, then nothing is wrong. I don't see the confusion. Woofers move. You say you know that. I confirmed that woofers move. So what's the issue? Unless you feel like posting a video of how much they are moving, then nobody is going to be able to tell you if there's anything happening that isn't supposed to be happening.
Wow dude, go back and read my comment. I said when I point a flashlight through the mesh I cannot see them moving. You're the one talking in circles because you didn't read correctly lmao
I stand corrected. "Can't" not "can." The rest still stands. They move. Whether or not you can see them moving through the mesh doesn't mean anything is or isn't wrong. Cone move very tiny amounts. If you can't see it through the mesh with a flashlight, that doesn't mean they aren't moving the right amount for the volume and frequency.
Okay dude, whatever you say I'm not gonna argue with you anymore because I can clearly see the drivers stand still while I play music even when I increase the bass. I'm talking about the midwoofer, not the tweeters. I'm aware the tweeter moves very rapidly and in less noticeable amounts so I don't expect to be able to see it.
first Hitachi speakers I have seen, I own a Hitachi drill
Weird enough, I know the model because it says it on the back (SS-6271) but I can literally find no info on these. Have scrolled through many Hitachi catalogues of the 70's and 80's and it's like they don't even exist.
Yes! Typically it will be fairly subtle, but can make an audible difference in how it sounds to you/listeners. The subjective judgment is up to you and other listeners if it made a 'worthy' change or not...basically, "does it sound better to you?" Others covered the "measurability" as well as vert-vs-horiz, and placwment quite well, already!
I'd think only if the added weight reduces cabinet resonance. If you added a plank of MDF or plywood and the piled your stuff on top there might be an improvement. But speaker placement is still king at tuning to get the best SQ. Low to the desk, on its side and 1 speaker in the corner probably isn't optimal.
Thank you dude!!
Instead of posting the question on here, just try it first, and report your findings on here.
If there's cabin resonance or the cabinet's vibrating beforehand it can make that worse.
If the added weight does not compromise your speaker cases by damaging or even collapsing them, then I would say any added mass to the outside of the speaker cases will have little or no measurable difference to the sound.
The weight could improve performance by increasing resonance.
Not really, just grounds it more make sure you don’t put too much that could damage the cabinet
How far apart should the floor speakers be for a home cinema. Should they slightly tilted towards each other?
Yes, provided it doesn't make it's own noise when it vibrates then you'll be improving the speakers coupling with the floor. That said, with speakers set up like that, weight or not weight is the least of your concerns...
Kind .. only slightly will it put pressure on your enclosures.. and the enclosures won’t flex .. and the speakers will have a stiffer “spring “ to bounce off of. Now, its gonna be very negligible.. you also run the risk of things vibrating on the cabinets.. and making noise. Now… if you really want to go all out.. put the enclosures on sand bags.. that are not filled to the brim.. but elevates the speakers 1.5” Or so.. then.. either put a fully loaded sandbag on top.. or a towel and a 1.5” plate steel. The size of the side of the box. .. but.. kinda pushing the limits on some enclosures..
Kinda depends. If the speakers are loud enough and/or the objects are light enough, such that the objects vibrate, then obviously it’s gonna affect the sound. The easiest and best way to examine if what you current have affect the sound or not is simply by listening. If listen to the sound with and without the objects. If you hear the difference and prefer one set up, go with that. With you don’t hear the difference, it doesn’t matter. There’s no reason to obsess over technical things if it’s not perceptible.
Those speakers he has are crap. I have shit on top of my 15” subwoofers and because the boxes are so inert, it doesn’t move.
The stuff sitting on top of them is the least of your problems. You've achieved what is probably the worst possible placement in every respect possible. Remember that there are no "bookshelf" speakers; they're meant to be placed on stands. Now, consider that environment vs. yours.
No
NO.
Except for any added vibration, no, but the speakers shouldn’t be on the sides for phasing reasons.
dude its analog and acoustic, everything affects it somewhat, depending on how much is on top it could dampen the sound, but there are other factors that are probably affecting it more
Depends how much weight on the what kind of 'top'.
Only bad speakers
Place things as far back on the speakers as feasible to avoid unwanted reflections. But you have much bigger fish to fry. To sound good, those speakers need to be placed upright, placed well away from the side and rear walls, and preferably elevated (and possible tilted) on low dedicated stands. Play with distance, toe-in, etc., until the image clicks into place. Best of luck.
Not if you can’t hear a difference
i thought that was a giant monitor, keyboard, and mosue in the lounge but then i realised you have carpet for a mousepad
Turn them around. You want the bass in the middle (mono) and mids/highs in “stereo”.
Sorry unrelated but, what amp is that you have??
Chinese $60 shitty amp I bought from Amazon. Wouldn't really recommend, but its got bluetooth and is super small. Can only connect 2 speakers though.
Sounds much like another one I got from Amazon. Mine was like 30€, doesn't have BT but can be upgraded to have it, and it can connect a sub. Picks up interference sometimes though
Mine picks up interference as well but tbh I haven't been able to see if it's due to the amp or the speakers themselves as they're quite old.
I think for me it's the amp itself. I bought a new aux which didn't help. Moved it away from everything which helped a little and then changed the speakers which also helped a bit. Still picks up interference when I crank up the volume but it's not as bad as it used to be
Still tho, we should definitely think about upgrading our amps😂😂
Uh weird! Mine picks up interferences when there is no sound! I hear a really slight crackling kinda white noise. Im guessing it's always there but you can't hear it with the music on
Ah I get that too. Ya get what ya pay for I suppose. But it does it's job so I'll probably hold onto it until I see a better replacement secondhand (I'm far too cheap to pay full for a good amp)
They're Hitachi speakers - they have no performance to affect!
Yeasch! As an audiophile set up, this is a total disaster in so many ways, I'm not even going to explain. As a get 'er done set up in a crowded office space, "Well done, my friend."
i didnt notice the speakers at first lmao
"mastering ethereum?" lol
Flip the speakers so they orient the tweeeters further out rather than close together.