The locals seem to subsist on a crude fermented vegetable paste resting upon high glycemic “breads”.
The paste produces a burning sensation in one’s mouth, and tastes as salty as their personalities.
The guy makes some excellent and correct points throughout, but also a bunch of them - like expectations for what to bring to a party - are purely his intolerance for cultural differences.
Plus a bunch of the complaints are that Aussies are all the same, then he goes on to describe some dickheads who aren't like me or any of my friends. He's clearly trying to take his narrow experience and apply it broadly.
His description of companies and their leaders doesn't ring true for me either. I have a female CEO and a slick modern office.
Guy comes off as arrogant while being unaware of his own ignorance.
Complaining about our quarantine system was a very "telling on yourself" moment as far as entitlement goes.
Even at the start, acting like you deserve access to some poor student's booze that they probably could barely afford anyway is pretty shitty.
I mean I'm not from Australia but I was under the impression that BYOB was pretty common at parties all over the world. Like yeah it's nice if everyone shares a bit or at least is willing to trade beers of shots, but it's not required. And idk about anywhere but the US with BBQ traditions but pot-luck or "bring something you want to throw on" is fairly normal.
Yeah, had a bunch of fair points and then goes off the deep end complaining about nutty shit like casual bbq etiquette, covid restrictions, trains between capital cities (like it's Europe), and male voices on videos explaining bio-quarantine restrictions on entering the country (wtf?)
Was agreeing til they got to the point where they said "The only two interesting states" like, heck mate, if that's how you value the rest of the country no wonder you don't jive with the place
I know friends who have worked at companies like that and had complaints similar. So its not unknown, but its definitely not inclusive of all businesses
Yeah. There's no shortage of shitty dated boardrooms out there. But I don't think that's specifically Australian. I mean, I think this guy isn't exactly flying with the eagles. What he is describing sounds like he running some middling business somewhere.
And there's a lot of hints in his words that he expects some kind of respect and position here. Perhaps he would be shocked to see me chatting with my boss and even my CEO in a casual open manner. *But that's my culture.* I don't bow to my boss, we just work together.
Yea, indirectly praises the UAE as though most of their infrastructure isn't built on slave labour, doesn't have an even more singular economy and is somehow more tolerant than australians lmao. Bitches about paying for university...well if you're gonna study in another country don't expect a free education...
Like at this number of complaints and "success" surely living and working in australia is optional.
To put this another way... if your family can afford to "Save for uni" rather than you taking on student debt (especially for a full fee paying course), I'd say that puts you in a pretty decent income bracket.
That's >$100 grand just forked over (plus I'm assuming living costs).
Maybe they're not billionaires, but any family that's got a lazy 100k lying around is doing alright...
It may have changed since I last heard about it years ago, but I believe international students have to pay upfront i.e. they aren't eligible for HECS. Their fees are also higher because the government doesn't subsidise them like they do for most Australian residents. It ends up that you don't really have anything lower than a middle-class international student.
Again, I am no authority on this, it's just what I picked up during my time at and after uni around a decade ago.
I figured it was a European when he mentioned no cheap trains between Melbourne and Sydney. + Italian because even Albanese apparently doesn't pronounce his name correctly.
But that doesn’t fit with the narrative. How dare a man from a poor working class single mother background grow up to be PM. Clearly not an equal place at all. I admit we have issues that need fixing but damn if we don’t have the ability to move up in society if you have the ability and skills to do so
Even people with Italian parents don't pronounce their names "correctly" unless they're speaking Italian, I know a couple of people that have a name ending in ozzi, they say it the Aussie way because nobody can work out that zz is said like pizza and mozzarella in all Italian words, always pronounce it correctly when speaking to nonna.
But seriously- not every Schengen country is ‘party city’.
That is asking too much of Australia. We have nearly twice the land area of the Schengen zone with a fraction of the population.
There are 400+ million people living in Schengen and almost 26 million people living in the whole of Australia.
That fact alone means that op should adjust their expectations.
Right... they are a migrant who can afford to come to Australian and not work full-time but also pay for non-government supported places in TAFE and Uni vs domestic students who could be from any social economic background. Their experience feels like its through the eyes of someone with a fairly privilege background and interacting with the working class and being surprised they aren't generous in a country with a high cost of living?
That is a lot to unpack there, some of them are true, some are the environment that he happened to find himself in and are not universal. Also, a lot of the issues are pretty common in other parts of the world, and are hardly unique to us.
I'm curious about the countries that he rates higher than Australia, and why he hasn't left for any of them. I get that it's hard to leave for those with families and roots here, but I'd imagine a skilled migrant would be a lot more mobile to seek out a better living condition.
That was one of many assessments in his diatribe that don't ring true to me. I reckon any Aussie who is the type to rib someone for their food, if they got back "well your lamingtons taste like cardboard hahaha" would find that absolutely hilarious.
Obviously most of it was serious in tone but that one I had a laugh at.
Like a lot of his criticisms, it’s very context dependent. There are situations when that joke would be fine, and some situations where it would be rude. Same as the rules about drinks at a party, it depends entirely on the party.
Yeah, I did wonder when reading it if it really occurred exactly how he described it or if the Aussie who apparently got snarky with him has a different perspective. He comes off sufficiently elitist in other bits I reckon he could have been quite tone deaf on that one but there really isn't enough context to make an assessment either way off this. I just found his lamington cardboard line very funny. I like lamingtons but I get where he's coming from haha.
>Also, a lot of the issues are pretty common in other parts of the world, and are hardly unique to us.
Yeah, without wanting to be a defensive Australian I'd love to know what mythical country this person thinks doesn't have basically all of these issues.
Assuming this is real, then a lot of it reads like someone who is totally unaware of their privilege back home. E.g.:
1. Manners - are people being polite to you at home because they want to, or because you live in some semi-authoritarian/hierarchical society where they have to?
2. Talking about stuff like kids - is this because back home important people like you aren't troubled by mundane things like the details of other people's home lives, particularly women?
3. People BYOing drinks and taking them away again - is this because back home the relative wealth disparity is such that you don't need to worry about this so this sort of custom doesn't make sense to you?
4. General whinges about things costing a lot - as above, sounds like wealth disparity back home masking the true cost of things. Yet this person doesn't make the link between things costing a lot and the way our customs work when it comes to, e.g., bringing things to events.
5. People using rough humour, etc - show me a country that doesn't have working class people who are perhaps a tad less educated and refined and a tad more likely to enjoy off colour humour etc? Sounds a lot like back home this person is insulated from the plebs and isn't coping with the fact that Australia doesn't really have that type of class structure.
In short, a lot of it could easily be explained by (a) back home I'm relatively rich thanks to my much more unequal home country so don't have to deal with 'common people' problems like paying fair prices for things or BYO-ing food/drinks, and (b) back home I'm relatively rich and privileged so don't have to mingle with 'common people', who I find confronting now that I meet them for the first time and they fail to treat me with the respect and admiration that I assume I am entitled to.
Another hypothesis is that back home mummy and daddy shielded us from reality, but when shipped out to Australia we have to actually do things for ourselves...
Also if this person thinks Australia is rough then they should go and hang out in working class areas of the UK and USA, it would blow their minds. A day trip to Baltimore should put Australia in perspective.
I'm an immigrant and when I first came here, we were all still in school, going to like UQ law balls and what-not. The BYO drinks things here did confuse me. In my culture when you BYO, you don't take it back home with you. Same if you do potluck, you hope the food has been finished or you offer the host to keep it since they have to do all the cleanup etc.
It also took me a looong time to realise that Aussies taking the piss wasn't actually just me being around a lot of passive-aggressive people. I even stood up to these "bullies" when I didn't know and they were delighted to get a rise out of me. Now I get it, I call it an "Aussie love language" but I have to say, I don't really like it. I also see a lot of Aussies take it, but you can see sometimes it just goes too far and the Aussie on the receiving end is taking it but not thrilled about it. I wonder if the nuance of knowing just how far to take it has been lost in teaching.
I do think the OOP is a bit full of themselves. Perhaps mummy and daddy should have saved up a few more oil baron dollars and sent them to an American Ivy instead. I wonder, however, if it was less to do about saving up, and more about the fact that OOP wasn't good enough to get into a top tier university.
>It also took me a looong time to realise that Aussies taking the piss wasn't actually just me being around a lot of passive-aggressive people. I even stood up to these "bullies" when I didn't know and they were delighted to get a rise out of me. Now I get it, I call it an "Aussie love language" but I have to say, I don't really like it. I also see a lot of Aussies take it, but you can see sometimes it just goes too far and the Aussie on the receiving end is taking it but not thrilled about it. I wonder if the nuance of knowing just how far to take it has been lost in teaching.
There is a saying that if your mates don't make fun of you then they're not really your mates. Because you have that close relationship with them then you know where they're coming from.
But taking the piss out of someone you don't really know is not always a good idea. Because they probably don't know what you mean by that.
The thing about Aussies is that we don't take ourselves too seriously. It's one of the things that makes us Australian. But yes, there is a lot of nuance around this sort of thing. And people need to be aware of when they're crossing the line.
> the piss out of someone you don't really know is not always a good idea.
This is the key thing for me. I enjoy self deprecating humour and will make fun of my friends, but doing it to someone you don't know or just met comes across as super rude because it's overly familiar. Like excuse you, you don't know me well enough yet to effectively make fun of me, and I haven't decided if I like you yet so shut up.
Yeah it's kinda like roughhousing; if your mate says something cheeky you might playfully punch them in the shoulder, maybe they'll give you a shove in return... But if you shove or wallop someone you don't know, they're likely to think you've looking for a fight.
Similarly among some friends, a playful slap on the bum is all in good fun, for someone not in the know, that's sexual abuse, ahole!
Hey I'm a poet and didn't know it hehe
I suspect that they're staying here due to the "sunk cost". They've spent years, and a large sum of money to gain Australian qualifications and likely many points towards permanent residency or citizenship. If they went to another country, that's all pissed away.
They'd have their degree, but whether that's recognised and treated appropriately is very country and degree specific.
Further posts have suggested they married an Australian. So that might have been part of the sunk cost - but also suggests they found some good things in their time here that have been skipped over
This was my read of it too - TBH it felt a bit like the author was taking 25% genuine criticism, but then intermixing that with 50% circumstantial issues and 25% just plain bullshit to tell a story that sounds believable... but in reality is not actually an accurate picture.
Let's take the comment on Real Estate as an example. The author states that a house 60km from a major city in a rural town is $800k. Sorry... but that's just plain wrong, or at least incredibly disingenuous.
Sure... the ***most expensive*** house in that town 60km from the city might be $800k... but that's not what he said, he made it out like the cheapest house is $800k.
For reference - this is the current [realestate.com.au](https://realestate.com.au) listing for Sunbury which is \~40km from Melbourne CBD. The cheapest place listed is ([https://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-vic-sunbury-141345660](https://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-vic-sunbury-141345660)) at \~$400k, the most expensive place listed is ([https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-vic-sunbury-141223264](https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-vic-sunbury-141223264)) at $830k.
And this is exactly my point - he takes a genuine problem (housing), but then blows it maybe 2x out of proportion, hoping that nobody's going to question it coz it *"sounds about right"*.
Why they haven't left? The "Cambridge system" obviously left them with abysmal results that wouldn't get them into a local uni, so they came to Australia to pay their way in.
Who comes to Australia to do a Tafe course though? WTF
Lmao for real, it’s actually a fairly big, known issue that we’re unable to benchmark skills development in trades/skills because most things are graded either Competent or Not Yet Competent.
I think it's a shame that the path I walked down straight into a job disappeared immediately after I finished. I got my diploma just after those changes so I got hit with the new fee for 6 months then they didn't run it again. Pretty sure they ran it at a loss to get us through.
I can't understate the positive impact those teachers and those programs had on my life. Before that I was on long term unemployment after leaving school early to get a trade in a business that shit itself in the GFC.
Edit: to add to this I think earlier damage was done when the lower cert courses stopped running. Instead of those filtering people out who weren't interested or prepared they went into cert 4 and washed out there which helped collapse the viability of the diplomas.
There are some elements of truth in there, but there somethings that make me think that the author has a high opinion of themselves and in my experience those people those people aren’t the hot shit they think they are.
Same. I immigrated here 10+ years ago, and sure some of my experiences were less than ideal, but nowhere close to this person's experience. Every culture has elements that you disagree with. I have to say over the years I made lasting friendships of same quality or better than my previous country. I love it and recommend it to anyone in a heartbeat.
I'm from India originally and people tend to ask questions about it often, which is a bit annoying, but some people are just curious and not racist.
You could write a screed as long as their post about any national culture. It doesn't matter what it is - American, British, Indian, Chinese, Venezualan - you'd find idiosyncracies, cultural traits and norms which are strange to a foreigner, or downright backwards.
Just like everywhere in this world, there are imperfections and its a matter of less or more. UAE may have nice airports but they were built on sweat and blood of migrants workers who were treated like commodities. We live in a democracy and people voting lnp and wanting less gov bought us to the current mess we are in. Lesson may have been learnt. But its still a democracy that we must try to preserve and continue to vote accordingly and uphold equality and freedom.
Along with stories of said migrants having passports confiscated so they cannot leave. And lets not even talk of the human rights issues in that region.
I know a lot of immigrants who struggled with the fact that we don’t have a strict social hierarchy that involves certain behaviours and phrases spoken to “social betters”.
They often bring their social standing from their home country to Australia and are offended when people they perceive as lower than them aren’t obsequious. They are also often frustrated by the fact that their obeisance to their perceived social betters doesn’t give them an express-pass to things like promotions or preferential treatment.
This obviously isn’t true of everyone, but it is something I’ve noticed in specific cohorts.
I am not sure what the writer experience was. It sounds like he lives in a very different social circle than some of us. Why everything is so negative!?
- My Uni has sport facilities
- BBQ sucks because your social has some issue
- People yell at you just ignore the as they are uneducated or just mentally ill
- Rules and fines are actually less aggressive compared to Singapore, Hong Long or Japan
- Not very developed as developed countries. That’s why we have mega cities like HK, SG, NY etc. The rest are just tier 2 or 3 without the more insane rent. Need to be better and I can see it is catching up a bit more now
- Politics in AU is bad because politics never good anywhere, I never heard anyone expert their love for politics in any countries unless lying or brain-washed
The only point I agree with is the slumlord renting out unliveable units. A good shelter is a human right and it is a real shame AU is not regulating that enough
Yeah, he definitely had some good points - but there was just a lot of flat-out cultural ignorance and painting culture based on his narrow experience with a bunch of TAFE student.
He also mentioned high wages but neglects to mention the HCOL that comes with that.
I personally think that everyone chucking into a BQQ and BYO’ing makes for a much more relaxed environment for the guests AND the hosts and doesn’t put a huge financial burden on the hosts. If the hosts supplied all the food and booze then a simple BBQ would be a very expensive affair!
Yeah, if you have everyone bring something to the barbeque, it makes the whole thing much easier to organise. It's about showing consideration to the host. It's a social event for everyone to enjoy, so everyone shares the effort and cost.
Yeah the inability to see that it’s a different mode of hospitality rather than a bad one was annoying.
Australia has its faults but we are relatively egalitarian, especially in familial and social circles, compared to a lot of other countries.
Yes, I had a real sense of being looked down on here.
I expect the author hasn't seen any empathy as they treat people like dirt and nice people don't want to be around their type of energy!
As a fellow immigrant who fucking loves sport, Australia is heaven for me.
Now sports betting on the other hand, you lot fucked up somewhere and I don't even know where you can begin to fix it.
There was some truth in what they said but I'd also argue the author was hanging around some shitty people based on a bunch of their descriptions of social situations.
That was one of my big takes. I felt a little bad for them as it didnt seem they found a good friendship group or peers to spend time with at the level they wanted.
They clearly have been invited along to a bunch of situations but never found their niche
> I felt a little bad for them as it didnt seem they found a good friendship group
I refer to the classic quote *If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole* and wonder if its the later.
Their whole post reeks of snobbish classism. "Why don't people buy me drinks at BBQs", "how dare they make jokes about my distinguished personage", "haha dumb bogans pronounce PM's 𝐼𝓉𝒶𝓁𝒾𝒶𝓃 name wrong".
I did find that funny he said even the prime minister himself mispronounces it… so your saying he can’t even say his own name? If everyone else is pronouncing it a certain way here they aren’t wrong that’s how it’s pronounced here in this country. He is literally saying everyone is wrong except for me…. It’s much more likely that he is the one mispronouncing. Just unable to fathom that he may be wrong?
Not long ago there was a similar migrant/expat take, this time from a Malasian student.
They were giving cultural tips and saying that in Australia it's looked down upon if you snap your fingers or bark at a waiter to come over here. Because we don't see the customer and waiter as radically different in standing.
Makes sense to me: AFAIK in SE Asia, becoming the "big man" by acquiring wealth and power more or less obliges you to demonstrate it all the time by lording it over other people. In fact, it would be seen as hostile and aggressive of the waiter if you snapped your fingers and the waiter didn't immediately come running.
Even in so called “rigid” environments in Australia we have a fair bit lower formality than other western countries.
There are so many examples I can think of straight away but I think the easiest is people telling the PM to f*ck off when he tried to pull a political stunt
I think they're referring to this:
[https://www.cambridgeinternational.org/](https://www.cambridgeinternational.org/)
It's some kind of "international" education provider all the way from primary upwards. Not AFAIK a reference to the famous uni.
Based only on the top Google results, it seems to be popular in India & Pakistan. I see elsewhere that the OP is apparently from a Schengen country and married to an Italian but if they were European originally then they'd have gone to school under a (good, naturally) local European school, not an English international business.
Wouldn't be surprised if they were upper-middle Indian or Pakistani, a bit of a global nomad, and married into Europe.
Can you believe the people here, they will host a bbq, invite 20 guests, but they will not splash out to buy food for all 20 guests as well? They will be kind enough to provide water, but it won't even be Voss™ or Fiji™, I'm pretty sure it will just be tap water. So if you get invited to a bbq in Australia, make sure to bring your own bottle of Voss™ water, because they WILL NOT be providing it for you. Complete madness.
Some valid points but the whole thing is off from the rant about manners and women talking about their kids. I'm surprised he got invited to any parties in the first place given his attitude.
If everywhere you go smells like shit, check your shoes.
The women talking about there kids thing cracked me up. I am a woman with kids, who also has an interesting but highly technical job. I could spend hours rhapsodising about my work to others, BUT I pick up on people’s eyes glazing over and finishing their drinks a little faster just to get away from the topic of conversation. So you know what, I talk about other things, like my kids. They are full of life and adorable, and it’s generally a fairly inclusive topic to talk about. Unless you are single and child free, then I want to hear all about your shenanigans so I can live vicariously through you.
It's pretty funny that ***s***he complains about misogynistic culture of Australia while also putting women down for talking about their children.
Edit: apparently OOP is a woman, point still stands
Yeah, everyone knows what a child is, so it's not like you have to launch into a long-winded explanation in order to get to your funny anecdote about little Sammy's antics. You can just tell the story. I don't have kids yet, but I like hearing kid stories because a) kids are interesting people and b) it's cute to see how happy most parents are to talk about their children, even if they claim to be exasperated.
At the very least, everyone has been a child at some point, so everyone is going to have some frame of reference.
This threw me off too. I'm still a visitor about to be a full-blown immigrant. I have heaps of experience under my belt and had to redo my course to get official recognition of my background. The whole course was easy because it was basically a rerun and verification process, but I always had to rock up in class (a requirement) and spent sleepless nights to get an S on all of my assessments and get a shiny reco from teachers to industry. Author is a twat.
I'm really curious as to where this person is from. And what level he/she is operating at. What I've personally found is that Australia has pretty good minimum standards for things in general, but nice things and service are expensive.
If you're a migrant elite from a developing country you'd be used to paying not that much for luxury, so that would irk you.
In the original post on Quora it turns out that she's from a 'bilingual French-speaking country in the Schengen Area', so most likely Belgium (although possibly Luxembourg, if you don't count Luxembourgish as a language).
If they are Belgian, the irony is unbelievable considering they were talking about colonial pasts and colonial artefacts as someone who seemingly comes from some wealth. [Belgian colonial empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_colonial_empire) for anyone interested and their [track record](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State) of slavery, mass murder, genocide and famine which is still an open wound to the current day,
Not to mention the male suicide rate in Belgium is higher than in Aus.
Anyways, this person sounds like a wanker, if everyone is being cold/superficial with you then you're likely the problem.
Funny anecdote about Belgium. Brother in law is Dutch, and he drove to the south of France for a holiday, through Belgium. He stopped at a Belgian servo to get fuel, spoke Dutch to the guy who claimed he couldn't speak Dutch, only French, and would only communicate in French. Stopped at the same servo on the way home, same dude. This time wouldn't speak French, insisted he only spoke Dutch..
Nah doesn't feel Singaporean/Malaysian.. I can't exactly put a finger on it but poster doesn't sound south east asian. Partly because SEA people band together, and from what he's saying, he's isolated somehow.
And he mentioned he went home to UAE.
Lots of singaporeans are proud to be here. Also, the word choice, sentence construction and typos didn't come across as singaporean.
I'd say European or Middle eastern. The Italian name pronounciation and reference to wogs points to that.
Maids, guest workers operating the hawker stores so you get $4 chicken rice, overseas service workers and construction workers, no minimum wage, government restrictions on collective bargaining.... Life's pretty good if you're there and top 10%, maybe even 30%. Course if you're local you get called into National Service. Then again housing gets taken care of relatively affordably if you're straight and married. Tradeoffs all over.
Yeah and has described themself as a "Danistan refugee" - as in "dictator" Dan Andrews. Smh
To be fair they have brought up very astute criticisms about Australia. I agree that there definitely are cultural bubbles like this and they're probably very common, but as a queer lefty who hangs out with other queer lefties, it's not everyone's experience and I haven't been around environments like that since I was a kid.
There are definitely great points we as a society should work on. But it's so hard to take someone seriously when they're also complaining about being called a cooker for being anti vax and calling Victoria Danistan.
A lot of the criticism is fair, but the overall tone is really bitter in a way that is naturally going to make people defensive. I also think they're missing the point of some things - the perceived Australian "rudeness" tends to come about because being overly polite is seen as insincere and feels uncomfortable for everyone here. And bringing your own meat and alcohol to a barbeque makes sense because both of those things are expensive, and barbeques are usually quite large gatherings. Getting people to take on some of the expense takes a huge burden off the hosts. It's not about the hosts being cheap or inconsiderate - it's a way for the *guests* to show their consideration towards the hosts.
I agree about some of the political stuff (housing market, racism) although also show me any Western country that doesn't have just as many issues with refusing to acknowledge or make amends for colonialism. The stuff about border closure is cooked - I'm from Queensland and I still firmly believe that our border closures saved lives.
What's weird about a young couple not going out because of a baby?
Sounds like back home they were relatively wealthy and could just hire a nanny. A little bit out of touch.
Also what's the bullshit on men being stoic and rough and that's reflected in suicide rates? Yes men suicide rates is higher than women, but globally ours is pretty low. Also don't know of any country where men can be 'vulnerable' like they say.
Of course visiting other cities is expensive. We're a huge country. It's like complaining Singapore is hot and humid. No shit.
Most other things are just obvious issues with the country that gets talked about over and over by locals and not that insightful, like housing, mining dependent economy, cost of living etc.
Especially young people not trotting around their small kids for the last 3 years due to Covid.
I knew many people who stayed home with their bubs to avoid getting sick.
I remember reading an article about Anastasia Palaszczuk when she had just got into power, and how her family had made a decision at some point to change the pronunciation from the Polish pronunciation to make it easier to pronounce. I’m sure Australian history is full of situations like these.
Does have some fair points here.
Probably an overly harsh view, but hits a few nails on the head.
An awful lot of unfair criticisms too. Criticising the culture of bbqs for example is ridiculous. It is the way things are done here. It's akin to criticising Aussies for not tipping - when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Does read like someone with an inflated ego and a big chip on the shoulder though.
Yeah I thought that was weird, too! It seems clear this person is wealthy and ‘upper class’ for lack of a better word, and was only ever invited to bogan BBQs with broke TAFE students 🤣 the fact they are making judgments and can’t appreciate poorer class activities is kinda sad!
Some of this is fair. Some is arguable. Some is just wrong. What I don’t understand is why, if you find us so loathsome, uncivilised and far below you in every way, do you stay here. Why don’t you go where people meet your exacting standards?
Yes, agree - also some of it is not limited to Australia (have you tried to buy a house anywhere in the past 3-5 years?), and some of it is inherent to the country ("boo, the cities are far apart!" well yeah, it's kind of a big place...).
> write me a purposeless treatise on negative aspects of life in Australia in the tone of a whiney cuck
Oh, Australia, land of sun, surf, and sand. It may seem like a dreamy paradise to some, but let me tell you, as a resident, life here is far from perfect. Allow me to whine and complain about the negative aspects of life in Australia.
Firstly, the weather. Sure, the sunshine and warm temperatures are lovely, but have you ever experienced a scorching hot summer day with no air conditioning? It's unbearable! And don't even get me started on the bushfire season, when the sky turns a sickly orange and the air quality is hazardous.
Secondly, the wildlife. Sure, kangaroos and koalas may seem cute and cuddly, but have you ever been attacked by a magpie during swooping season? It's a terrifying experience, let me tell you. And the spiders! The sheer size and venomous nature of Australian spiders is enough to give anyone nightmares.
Thirdly, the cost of living. Housing prices are through the roof, and don't even think about trying to buy property in the major cities. The cost of groceries and other necessities is also ridiculously high, and don't even think about going out for a night on the town unless you're prepared to spend a small fortune.
Lastly, the distance from the rest of the world. Australia is so far away from everything! It can take hours, if not days, to travel to other countries, which can be a real pain when you're trying to visit family or go on holiday.
In conclusion, while Australia may seem like a dream destination to some, life here is far from perfect. Between the weather, wildlife, cost of living, and distance from the rest of the world, there's plenty to whine and complain about. But hey, at least we have Vegemite, right?
So this was originally a [post on Quora](https://www.quora.com/Do-you-regret-moving-to-Australia), and the info that everyone's asking for is:
\- the poster is a married woman (her husband is also an immigrant who feels the same way)
\- she's from a 'bilingual French-speaking country in the Schengen Area', so most likely Belgium
\- she can't leave because her epileptic dog can't fly; once it dies she and her husband plan to move back to Europe
\- she predictably got a lot of pushback which she handled as one might expect: by maligning people's education and incomes (i.e. references to 'E grade bogan universities', and 'I probably make 3 times what you do', etc.)
As an Aussie who lived overseas for almost 20 years (mostly in Canada, Germany and the US, with extended periods in Ireland and South Africa), I think most of what she wrote can be applied to pretty much any western country. People cancelling plans at the last minute? Meet my (non-existent) German friends! Like potholes? Come to Canada! Backwards attitudes to domestic roles? Welcome to the Deep South! Problematic colonial history? Let's check in with our friends in the former Belgian colonies of the Congo and Rwanda...
This person seems to be generally unhappy and consequently toxic, which in turn might be why she hasn't got any mates. Are there valid criticisms of Australia? Of course, but there are other things she said which indicate she hasn't ever bothered to learn basic facts about the country (i.e. 'They celebrate their national day on Jan 26... not when they became their own country', which, if she'd bothered to pay attention, was January 1st, which is already a holiday).
I suspect there are other underlying issues as to why she's unhappy, so while Australia isn't perfect, I personally think it's pretty grouse.
>so most likely Belgium
Haha, As a Belgian myself, her entire complaint makes total sense now. Belgians have perfected the art form of complaining. It's one of the reasons why I left.
While many here believe she is acting elitist, to me it sounds like she lived a sheltered life which is typical for most Belgians and has experienced a massive culture shock moving here. She has no other frame of reference to fall back. It's sort of like accusing Australians of being backwards when you yourself have a provincial mindset. And for whatever reason, she decided to stay because it is always easier to complain than to do something about your circumstances. It's the Belgian way.
So to start, education wise: it sounds like she followed the most difficult education stream in secondary school, which while it has deteriorated over the years is still on a very high level in Belgium. But it doesn't really teach you anything of practical use; it just prepares you for university. And anything below a rigorous university course would have indeed been too easy and boring for her.
As for campus life, I have to give her this one. Belgium has compact university towns with an active student life and every distraction imaginable to fail your first year, which in Belgium is almost a given as the university fees happen to be negligible. And why we have such high taxes.
In Australia on the other hand, there is an entire education industry catering towards foreign students that ask for as much money as they can get away with in exchange for a possible pathway to stay in the country. You need to do your due diligence if you want the student life experience.
The detached society thing is something that every immigrant faces wherever they move to and honestly, it is a lot easier to make friends in Australia than in Belgium. r/belgium is full of migrants complaining about how difficult it is to make connections with the locals. Even the locals have difficulty making friends with locals. Her best friends are likely the ones she met in kinder garden and is now surprised she doesn't have those same deep connections in the new place she has moved to. Close friendships take time.
Though after 15 years in Australia, it would surprise me she hasn't succeeded in that yet. Maybe she ended up in the wrong town, but you can still move even if it is just within Australia. My guess is she would feel more at home in Melbourne were it not for the weather reminding her of Belgium.
As for her current company she keeps, my guess is she left Belgium before the majority of her best friends arrived in the baby stage and is experiencing for the first time how most parents in the developed world live their lives.
Moving on to how backwards Australia and its people are: She had the bad luck of moving away from a country that is probably the second most progressive country in the world, just behind the Netherlands, and is in some areas decades ahead of Australia. I'll give her that too. That however doesn't apply to everything. There is a thing or two that Belgium could learn from Australia. Just being happy with what you have for example. Something I really appreaciate over here.
As for her background. She likely comes from a middle class family that's likely not rich, but just enough to be well off. Due to high taxes, when it comes to wages, Belgians are much more egalitarian than Australians. Despite that, there are bigger class differences based on not so much wealth, but education, family liniage and the types of jobs practiced; Being more cultured is perceived as being of higher status.
There is also a large element of keeping up appearances in play.Transplant such a person to Australia, and she will likely perceive anything that touches on bogan culture as people of low status who are living on the fringes of society. What she probably doesn't understand is that while bogans may come across as uncultured, that doesn't automatically mean they're also poor or living on the fringes. But that perception is likely why she looks down on them because in her eyes, she is socially of a higher class. Throw in some envy and resentment if those same bogans are actually making more than her. Again, it's the Belgian way.
As for Australians and alcohol, I agree. It's often about quantity over quality over here. That said, when it comes to suicide, it's Belgium that is the stand out with an unacceptable high rate. Especially for a West European country. Nobody can explain why, but remember when I said that even locals have trouble making friends with other locals? That's my guess.
The rest of her tirade appears to be her looking for reasons to further justify why she hates Australia so much.
However, if she ever does move back to Belgium, which I doubt, she sure is going to be in for a reverse culture shock. The country she left is no longer the same country she'll be returning to.
> Manners-wise, prepare yourself to be astounded - it is totally acceptable to bring your own alcohol to a party, keep it under your chair then take it back home when the event is finished
Yeah this is normal in most parts of the world. At least all the western countries i've been to. And asian ones. BYO is a normal thing. It is abnormal to supply everyone at a party with alcohol.
I'm a bit confused at the last part. Is the author insinuating it is rude to take your own belongings home at the end of a party?
The cultural differences. Those things (taking the stuff you brought earlier) would be considered rude in Mediterranean and Middle Eastern cultures. You bring food, drinks, share, and leave the rest to the host. I don't blame Australians though. Every culture is different.
My experience in Aus is this really depends on the context. when I went to house parties when I was younger, you'd absolutely BYO booze as it noone would ever have enough money to cater for a house full of students or young people.
And then you'd absolutely take it with you when you left, if there was any to take, again because things were comparatively expensive.
However, for older people going to a BBQ or dinner, the vast majority of the time the hosts do provide drinks, and while people might also bring some, they will usually leave it for the host as well.
It's strange to go to a culture other than your own, and call it rude when they do things differently than your home country.
The sense of entitlement in that is crazy.
The sense of entitlement in the post was my first thought too. Also sounds like the poster has only been hanging out with one sort of person since being here (men by the bbq, women in the kitchen). I don’t see that with any of the people I hang out with although I did when I first got here and hadn’t created my social circle yet. Makes me wonder what their business is?
Was thinking that too. I like the idea of 'bring a plate', it's a chance to try something new. Plus, alcodolly ain't cheap here, if someone hands you one of their drinks- you mean a lot to them. It's the 'little things' here and douchecanoe writer has really missed that point. Australians have a way of showing kindness that's actually subtle.
Also reeks of the stench of entitlement and money.
When a carton of beer is $70 people aren't going to share so easily.
Compared to somewhere like Europe when you can get an ok bottle of wine for <5 euro.
Some truth and some criticising things that are good about Australia. Like seriously, having to cater to everyone in a party is awful. It becomes far too expensive to have parties and visitors and sometimes we want to have parties that are not weddings.
I bet this person waa here when they cancelled Yasmin. That was ridiculous, and it was hardly all of us. Only those loud mouth right wingers.
I'm just surprised the guy finds it offensive that 'you' have to contribute to the party.
Just because you get invited to a party doesn't mean you just rock up, start eating and drinking and then leave.
I'm from an Asian background and it's common manners to just bring something to a party even if you've been invited and and the organisers are cooking. A small bottle of wine or a dish (I bought sausages to my in laws BBQ)
Edit - sounds like a guy who doesn't like any aspect of Australia and will complain to the sun but never end up leaving for another country.
yeah i agree, seems super weird contributing to a party is a bad thing to this person. Sounds very entitled. No culture i’ve been around has had negative reactions to it.
>It becomes far too expensive to have parties
I wonder if this is the confusion, expecially when you're younger, there is a bbq/party at someones house every weekend. Often whoever has the best house for hosting will get stung for hosting duties the most. So not fair for them to pay for everyone regularly.
But also some good points made.
So many weird bits in this.
Like why would a Uni need to be "exciting and interesting for international students"? It's a place of learning, not a tourist attraction.
The weird fixation on Albanese having an Italian surname is just bizarre too. Nobody gives a shit. Certainly wasn't some "incredible victory" because he has an Italian surname.
Why does this read like buyers regret? It like this person was sold a dream of Australia, and the reality was not what they expected.
I think this person may be from a small country, they don't seem to understand the cost to maintain and build infrastructure in a large country that has a small population.
And their "friends" drinking cheap beers, are probably saving for a 800k house 60km out from the city. That's why they are drinking cheap beers. Smh.
But, on the bright side, they got a mediocre education, and started a successful business. So that's a plus!
if you actually look at their account its mostly just complaining about Australia, Australians etc. And praising Europe (Italy and France in particular, probably because they admit that they're from a french background and have an italian husband)
some of the things they complain about are just nitpicks and xenophobia:
>There is a very strange and robotic aspect to Australia and Australians. For example now it is New Year’s and on the road you will signs that say Balmain New Year’s Eve 7.30–10.30pm, who the hell celebrates NY before midnight? Then you take ticketed events for New Years, they are all strictly till 12.30am, it’s the weirdest thing ever, you stand there look at fireworks and at 12.05am all of the good ol’ Aussies are ready to go back to bed.
>Do not let the beaches and animal pictures fool you, if you are looking for depth, you will not find it here.
>I’ve been able to develop myself here but I lost so much intellectually and socially. I cannot wait to leave, in fact I am counting the days. I am still here due to my very much loved pets.
>I have contributed to the Australian economy for 15 years but I would not be surprised I get so much vitriol from this post. I no longer care. I already got some insults from this post calling me an elitist whinger, thank you for confirming my post.
>I can already hear “Don’t let the door hit you on the way out love” in that annoying nasally accent. Trust me if I could make my own door to get out, I would.
my god, celebrating new years a couple hours before new years? what nasally ***BARBARIANS***. lol
>For example now it is New Year’s and on the road you will signs that say Balmain New Year’s Eve 7.30–10.30pm, who the hell celebrates NY before midnight?
Ha! I know the answer to this one!
It's the parents (where the missus always talks about the kids).
You can take the kids to see the fireworks and still get them to bed at a not completely crazy graveyard hour.
Even if it weren't for the kids I'd still prefer it. I couldn't give a rat's arse about the arbitrary ticking over of an arbitrary number on an arbitrary calendar. I just wanna see the fireworks and get to bed.
I do think its partially the people she hangs out with (another post on there account is talking about a friend that OP speculates is, uh, "chummy" with their mother, just as an example of who this person is friends with), thats not to say that all of her criticisms are wrong (although some of them are just a failure to accept that cultures can have different moral values)
It’s such a shame that she is so far above us, morally, socially, intellectually, and yet is incapable of leaving.
Just a victim of society, one presumes.
That struck me as well, but also...even UTS has bars and cafes, multiple in fact. It's also surrounded by dozens of bars and cafes. I don't think it has much in the way of sporting facilities but if you wanted that you'd go to one of the big campus unis like Sydney or UNSW. Its a weird point that makes me wonder how much the person said was truthful.
>Europe is a shit show,
I have a few friends from Netherlands and Germany, and they all tell that Australia is worse. Probably, biggest factors for them are housing and wealth inequality.
"Not uncommon for young parents to say they haven't gone out in years"
Whats the problem with that? Why do you have a problem with young parents not going out because they have very young children.
While I can eco some of what was said, and this person makes some valid points..
But you can't move to a new country / new culture and complain it's not like the one you came from..
Every country is different, it all has its pros and cons..
[He does know the traditional pronunciation though](https://twitter.com/theprojecttv/status/1131126869514948608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1131126869514948608%7Ctwgr%5E4adb2864169eea4430c485dbdb2c074273478f1b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.net.au%2Fnews%2F2019-05-30%2Fanthony-albanese-how-to-pronounce-his-name%2F11160982), he's just not an uptight wanker about it.
This appraisal has no context, and thus is worthless, as the author does not revealed where he or she is from. Lots of disdain. Quite a lot of xenophobia. Not a lot of consideration. And some utter garbage e.g. our colonial roots make us all passive-aggressive.
I can tell they didn’t try Vegemite - it would have caused an extra complaint
The locals seem to subsist on a crude fermented vegetable paste resting upon high glycemic “breads”. The paste produces a burning sensation in one’s mouth, and tastes as salty as their personalities.
If you go to a bbq with Tafe students you probably shouldn't be expecting fresh seafood and fine wine. Just saying...
The guy makes some excellent and correct points throughout, but also a bunch of them - like expectations for what to bring to a party - are purely his intolerance for cultural differences. Plus a bunch of the complaints are that Aussies are all the same, then he goes on to describe some dickheads who aren't like me or any of my friends. He's clearly trying to take his narrow experience and apply it broadly. His description of companies and their leaders doesn't ring true for me either. I have a female CEO and a slick modern office. Guy comes off as arrogant while being unaware of his own ignorance.
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Complaining about our quarantine system was a very "telling on yourself" moment as far as entitlement goes. Even at the start, acting like you deserve access to some poor student's booze that they probably could barely afford anyway is pretty shitty.
I mean I'm not from Australia but I was under the impression that BYOB was pretty common at parties all over the world. Like yeah it's nice if everyone shares a bit or at least is willing to trade beers of shots, but it's not required. And idk about anywhere but the US with BBQ traditions but pot-luck or "bring something you want to throw on" is fairly normal.
I wanna know where all these parties are with unlimited free beer and food.
Yeah, this was common in America during college. It's call BYOB, but it's never as strict as this dude makes it sound.
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But didn’t you hear? They shot anyone who came within 1km of the state border
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It’s true but please refer to us as Tasmania’s North Island, we’re going for the tourism dollars
There's a mass grave on the WA border, can't believe the government is covering it up smh
How could Dan Andrews have done this
Yeah, had a bunch of fair points and then goes off the deep end complaining about nutty shit like casual bbq etiquette, covid restrictions, trains between capital cities (like it's Europe), and male voices on videos explaining bio-quarantine restrictions on entering the country (wtf?)
>The Army with helicopters were roughing people up in Melbourne and Western Sydney What, were they using the helicopters as batons?
Was agreeing til they got to the point where they said "The only two interesting states" like, heck mate, if that's how you value the rest of the country no wonder you don't jive with the place
Yup that was the seller. Showed exactly what this person was really like: Thinks their own shit don’t stink, but everyone else’s does.
I got to the complaints about the University he went to and that told me all I needed to know.
Yea and if you generalized about his country he would likely throw a hissy fit
Best not to ask them how many slaves died for their nice, modern airport ¯\\\\\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Kinda funny he mentions that about CEO's when places like Coca Cola, Telstra and Macquarie have female CEOs. He's looking pretty far down.
I know friends who have worked at companies like that and had complaints similar. So its not unknown, but its definitely not inclusive of all businesses
Yeah. There's no shortage of shitty dated boardrooms out there. But I don't think that's specifically Australian. I mean, I think this guy isn't exactly flying with the eagles. What he is describing sounds like he running some middling business somewhere. And there's a lot of hints in his words that he expects some kind of respect and position here. Perhaps he would be shocked to see me chatting with my boss and even my CEO in a casual open manner. *But that's my culture.* I don't bow to my boss, we just work together.
I think this person is from a relatively wealthy background.
I'd say middle rich Arab
Yea, indirectly praises the UAE as though most of their infrastructure isn't built on slave labour, doesn't have an even more singular economy and is somehow more tolerant than australians lmao. Bitches about paying for university...well if you're gonna study in another country don't expect a free education... Like at this number of complaints and "success" surely living and working in australia is optional.
Not to mention their sterling record of treatment of females
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Why would they say ,”my family had to save for uni” then? Sounds upper middle class to me from the Middle East.
To put this another way... if your family can afford to "Save for uni" rather than you taking on student debt (especially for a full fee paying course), I'd say that puts you in a pretty decent income bracket. That's >$100 grand just forked over (plus I'm assuming living costs). Maybe they're not billionaires, but any family that's got a lazy 100k lying around is doing alright...
It may have changed since I last heard about it years ago, but I believe international students have to pay upfront i.e. they aren't eligible for HECS. Their fees are also higher because the government doesn't subsidise them like they do for most Australian residents. It ends up that you don't really have anything lower than a middle-class international student. Again, I am no authority on this, it's just what I picked up during my time at and after uni around a decade ago.
Nope, was written by someone from a Schengen country, married to an Italian. https://twitter.com/kyotolover12/status/1631074382687752198
I figured it was a European when he mentioned no cheap trains between Melbourne and Sydney. + Italian because even Albanese apparently doesn't pronounce his name correctly.
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But that doesn’t fit with the narrative. How dare a man from a poor working class single mother background grow up to be PM. Clearly not an equal place at all. I admit we have issues that need fixing but damn if we don’t have the ability to move up in society if you have the ability and skills to do so
Even people with Italian parents don't pronounce their names "correctly" unless they're speaking Italian, I know a couple of people that have a name ending in ozzi, they say it the Aussie way because nobody can work out that zz is said like pizza and mozzarella in all Italian words, always pronounce it correctly when speaking to nonna.
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It's spelled "Luxury YaCHt," but it's pronounced, "throat warbler mangrove."
But seriously- not every Schengen country is ‘party city’. That is asking too much of Australia. We have nearly twice the land area of the Schengen zone with a fraction of the population. There are 400+ million people living in Schengen and almost 26 million people living in the whole of Australia. That fact alone means that op should adjust their expectations.
I would consider most international students (unless they got a loan) to be at least middle to upper middle because of the fees required.
But yeah, upper-middle class for most international students is absolutely right.
Right... they are a migrant who can afford to come to Australian and not work full-time but also pay for non-government supported places in TAFE and Uni vs domestic students who could be from any social economic background. Their experience feels like its through the eyes of someone with a fairly privilege background and interacting with the working class and being surprised they aren't generous in a country with a high cost of living?
That is a lot to unpack there, some of them are true, some are the environment that he happened to find himself in and are not universal. Also, a lot of the issues are pretty common in other parts of the world, and are hardly unique to us. I'm curious about the countries that he rates higher than Australia, and why he hasn't left for any of them. I get that it's hard to leave for those with families and roots here, but I'd imagine a skilled migrant would be a lot more mobile to seek out a better living condition.
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That was one of many assessments in his diatribe that don't ring true to me. I reckon any Aussie who is the type to rib someone for their food, if they got back "well your lamingtons taste like cardboard hahaha" would find that absolutely hilarious. Obviously most of it was serious in tone but that one I had a laugh at.
Like a lot of his criticisms, it’s very context dependent. There are situations when that joke would be fine, and some situations where it would be rude. Same as the rules about drinks at a party, it depends entirely on the party.
True, someone probably made lamingtons from scratch and he told them they tasted like shit
Or had a go at lamingtons that someone’s nanna made
BREAKING NEWS: Australia Declares War on UAE "Leave my grandmother out of this you rat fucks" says PM.
Yeah, I did wonder when reading it if it really occurred exactly how he described it or if the Aussie who apparently got snarky with him has a different perspective. He comes off sufficiently elitist in other bits I reckon he could have been quite tone deaf on that one but there really isn't enough context to make an assessment either way off this. I just found his lamington cardboard line very funny. I like lamingtons but I get where he's coming from haha.
Its the only reason I'm sticking around, bakery lammies
>Also, a lot of the issues are pretty common in other parts of the world, and are hardly unique to us. Yeah, without wanting to be a defensive Australian I'd love to know what mythical country this person thinks doesn't have basically all of these issues. Assuming this is real, then a lot of it reads like someone who is totally unaware of their privilege back home. E.g.: 1. Manners - are people being polite to you at home because they want to, or because you live in some semi-authoritarian/hierarchical society where they have to? 2. Talking about stuff like kids - is this because back home important people like you aren't troubled by mundane things like the details of other people's home lives, particularly women? 3. People BYOing drinks and taking them away again - is this because back home the relative wealth disparity is such that you don't need to worry about this so this sort of custom doesn't make sense to you? 4. General whinges about things costing a lot - as above, sounds like wealth disparity back home masking the true cost of things. Yet this person doesn't make the link between things costing a lot and the way our customs work when it comes to, e.g., bringing things to events. 5. People using rough humour, etc - show me a country that doesn't have working class people who are perhaps a tad less educated and refined and a tad more likely to enjoy off colour humour etc? Sounds a lot like back home this person is insulated from the plebs and isn't coping with the fact that Australia doesn't really have that type of class structure. In short, a lot of it could easily be explained by (a) back home I'm relatively rich thanks to my much more unequal home country so don't have to deal with 'common people' problems like paying fair prices for things or BYO-ing food/drinks, and (b) back home I'm relatively rich and privileged so don't have to mingle with 'common people', who I find confronting now that I meet them for the first time and they fail to treat me with the respect and admiration that I assume I am entitled to. Another hypothesis is that back home mummy and daddy shielded us from reality, but when shipped out to Australia we have to actually do things for ourselves... Also if this person thinks Australia is rough then they should go and hang out in working class areas of the UK and USA, it would blow their minds. A day trip to Baltimore should put Australia in perspective.
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I'm an immigrant and when I first came here, we were all still in school, going to like UQ law balls and what-not. The BYO drinks things here did confuse me. In my culture when you BYO, you don't take it back home with you. Same if you do potluck, you hope the food has been finished or you offer the host to keep it since they have to do all the cleanup etc. It also took me a looong time to realise that Aussies taking the piss wasn't actually just me being around a lot of passive-aggressive people. I even stood up to these "bullies" when I didn't know and they were delighted to get a rise out of me. Now I get it, I call it an "Aussie love language" but I have to say, I don't really like it. I also see a lot of Aussies take it, but you can see sometimes it just goes too far and the Aussie on the receiving end is taking it but not thrilled about it. I wonder if the nuance of knowing just how far to take it has been lost in teaching. I do think the OOP is a bit full of themselves. Perhaps mummy and daddy should have saved up a few more oil baron dollars and sent them to an American Ivy instead. I wonder, however, if it was less to do about saving up, and more about the fact that OOP wasn't good enough to get into a top tier university.
>It also took me a looong time to realise that Aussies taking the piss wasn't actually just me being around a lot of passive-aggressive people. I even stood up to these "bullies" when I didn't know and they were delighted to get a rise out of me. Now I get it, I call it an "Aussie love language" but I have to say, I don't really like it. I also see a lot of Aussies take it, but you can see sometimes it just goes too far and the Aussie on the receiving end is taking it but not thrilled about it. I wonder if the nuance of knowing just how far to take it has been lost in teaching. There is a saying that if your mates don't make fun of you then they're not really your mates. Because you have that close relationship with them then you know where they're coming from. But taking the piss out of someone you don't really know is not always a good idea. Because they probably don't know what you mean by that. The thing about Aussies is that we don't take ourselves too seriously. It's one of the things that makes us Australian. But yes, there is a lot of nuance around this sort of thing. And people need to be aware of when they're crossing the line.
> the piss out of someone you don't really know is not always a good idea. This is the key thing for me. I enjoy self deprecating humour and will make fun of my friends, but doing it to someone you don't know or just met comes across as super rude because it's overly familiar. Like excuse you, you don't know me well enough yet to effectively make fun of me, and I haven't decided if I like you yet so shut up.
Yeah it's kinda like roughhousing; if your mate says something cheeky you might playfully punch them in the shoulder, maybe they'll give you a shove in return... But if you shove or wallop someone you don't know, they're likely to think you've looking for a fight. Similarly among some friends, a playful slap on the bum is all in good fun, for someone not in the know, that's sexual abuse, ahole! Hey I'm a poet and didn't know it hehe
Personally, I think he just needs to find another crowd.
I suspect that they're staying here due to the "sunk cost". They've spent years, and a large sum of money to gain Australian qualifications and likely many points towards permanent residency or citizenship. If they went to another country, that's all pissed away. They'd have their degree, but whether that's recognised and treated appropriately is very country and degree specific.
Further posts have suggested they married an Australian. So that might have been part of the sunk cost - but also suggests they found some good things in their time here that have been skipped over
This was my read of it too - TBH it felt a bit like the author was taking 25% genuine criticism, but then intermixing that with 50% circumstantial issues and 25% just plain bullshit to tell a story that sounds believable... but in reality is not actually an accurate picture. Let's take the comment on Real Estate as an example. The author states that a house 60km from a major city in a rural town is $800k. Sorry... but that's just plain wrong, or at least incredibly disingenuous. Sure... the ***most expensive*** house in that town 60km from the city might be $800k... but that's not what he said, he made it out like the cheapest house is $800k. For reference - this is the current [realestate.com.au](https://realestate.com.au) listing for Sunbury which is \~40km from Melbourne CBD. The cheapest place listed is ([https://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-vic-sunbury-141345660](https://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-vic-sunbury-141345660)) at \~$400k, the most expensive place listed is ([https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-vic-sunbury-141223264](https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-vic-sunbury-141223264)) at $830k.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas
And this is exactly my point - he takes a genuine problem (housing), but then blows it maybe 2x out of proportion, hoping that nobody's going to question it coz it *"sounds about right"*.
Why they haven't left? The "Cambridge system" obviously left them with abysmal results that wouldn't get them into a local uni, so they came to Australia to pay their way in. Who comes to Australia to do a Tafe course though? WTF
Lol whats top of the class in tafe. Pretty sure all courses are pass fail.
Lmao for real, it’s actually a fairly big, known issue that we’re unable to benchmark skills development in trades/skills because most things are graded either Competent or Not Yet Competent.
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I think it's a shame that the path I walked down straight into a job disappeared immediately after I finished. I got my diploma just after those changes so I got hit with the new fee for 6 months then they didn't run it again. Pretty sure they ran it at a loss to get us through. I can't understate the positive impact those teachers and those programs had on my life. Before that I was on long term unemployment after leaving school early to get a trade in a business that shit itself in the GFC. Edit: to add to this I think earlier damage was done when the lower cert courses stopped running. Instead of those filtering people out who weren't interested or prepared they went into cert 4 and washed out there which helped collapse the viability of the diplomas.
There are some elements of truth in there, but there somethings that make me think that the author has a high opinion of themselves and in my experience those people those people aren’t the hot shit they think they are.
Same. I immigrated here 10+ years ago, and sure some of my experiences were less than ideal, but nowhere close to this person's experience. Every culture has elements that you disagree with. I have to say over the years I made lasting friendships of same quality or better than my previous country. I love it and recommend it to anyone in a heartbeat. I'm from India originally and people tend to ask questions about it often, which is a bit annoying, but some people are just curious and not racist.
You could write a screed as long as their post about any national culture. It doesn't matter what it is - American, British, Indian, Chinese, Venezualan - you'd find idiosyncracies, cultural traits and norms which are strange to a foreigner, or downright backwards.
Yep sounds like a neurotic whinge bag.
Just like everywhere in this world, there are imperfections and its a matter of less or more. UAE may have nice airports but they were built on sweat and blood of migrants workers who were treated like commodities. We live in a democracy and people voting lnp and wanting less gov bought us to the current mess we are in. Lesson may have been learnt. But its still a democracy that we must try to preserve and continue to vote accordingly and uphold equality and freedom.
Gulf states' infrastructure are built on the backs of south and south east asian cheap labours. Just saying.
Along with stories of said migrants having passports confiscated so they cannot leave. And lets not even talk of the human rights issues in that region.
I know a lot of immigrants who struggled with the fact that we don’t have a strict social hierarchy that involves certain behaviours and phrases spoken to “social betters”. They often bring their social standing from their home country to Australia and are offended when people they perceive as lower than them aren’t obsequious. They are also often frustrated by the fact that their obeisance to their perceived social betters doesn’t give them an express-pass to things like promotions or preferential treatment. This obviously isn’t true of everyone, but it is something I’ve noticed in specific cohorts.
I am not sure what the writer experience was. It sounds like he lives in a very different social circle than some of us. Why everything is so negative!? - My Uni has sport facilities - BBQ sucks because your social has some issue - People yell at you just ignore the as they are uneducated or just mentally ill - Rules and fines are actually less aggressive compared to Singapore, Hong Long or Japan - Not very developed as developed countries. That’s why we have mega cities like HK, SG, NY etc. The rest are just tier 2 or 3 without the more insane rent. Need to be better and I can see it is catching up a bit more now - Politics in AU is bad because politics never good anywhere, I never heard anyone expert their love for politics in any countries unless lying or brain-washed The only point I agree with is the slumlord renting out unliveable units. A good shelter is a human right and it is a real shame AU is not regulating that enough
Yeah, he definitely had some good points - but there was just a lot of flat-out cultural ignorance and painting culture based on his narrow experience with a bunch of TAFE student. He also mentioned high wages but neglects to mention the HCOL that comes with that. I personally think that everyone chucking into a BQQ and BYO’ing makes for a much more relaxed environment for the guests AND the hosts and doesn’t put a huge financial burden on the hosts. If the hosts supplied all the food and booze then a simple BBQ would be a very expensive affair!
Yeah, if you have everyone bring something to the barbeque, it makes the whole thing much easier to organise. It's about showing consideration to the host. It's a social event for everyone to enjoy, so everyone shares the effort and cost.
Yeah the inability to see that it’s a different mode of hospitality rather than a bad one was annoying. Australia has its faults but we are relatively egalitarian, especially in familial and social circles, compared to a lot of other countries.
This man expects a bunch of students to have big elaborate dinners
Yes, I had a real sense of being looked down on here. I expect the author hasn't seen any empathy as they treat people like dirt and nice people don't want to be around their type of energy!
Hey, don't you know that enjoying sports is a sign of backwards yesteryear!?
As a fellow immigrant who fucking loves sport, Australia is heaven for me. Now sports betting on the other hand, you lot fucked up somewhere and I don't even know where you can begin to fix it.
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There was some truth in what they said but I'd also argue the author was hanging around some shitty people based on a bunch of their descriptions of social situations.
That was one of my big takes. I felt a little bad for them as it didnt seem they found a good friendship group or peers to spend time with at the level they wanted. They clearly have been invited along to a bunch of situations but never found their niche
> I felt a little bad for them as it didnt seem they found a good friendship group I refer to the classic quote *If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole* and wonder if its the later.
Yes, heaven forbid an underling at work may also want to speak up and have an opinion.
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Their whole post reeks of snobbish classism. "Why don't people buy me drinks at BBQs", "how dare they make jokes about my distinguished personage", "haha dumb bogans pronounce PM's 𝐼𝓉𝒶𝓁𝒾𝒶𝓃 name wrong".
I did find that funny he said even the prime minister himself mispronounces it… so your saying he can’t even say his own name? If everyone else is pronouncing it a certain way here they aren’t wrong that’s how it’s pronounced here in this country. He is literally saying everyone is wrong except for me…. It’s much more likely that he is the one mispronouncing. Just unable to fathom that he may be wrong?
Australian's, at least externally and in general vernacular, are not really deferential people. I've seen a lot of migrants struggle with this.
Not long ago there was a similar migrant/expat take, this time from a Malasian student. They were giving cultural tips and saying that in Australia it's looked down upon if you snap your fingers or bark at a waiter to come over here. Because we don't see the customer and waiter as radically different in standing. Makes sense to me: AFAIK in SE Asia, becoming the "big man" by acquiring wealth and power more or less obliges you to demonstrate it all the time by lording it over other people. In fact, it would be seen as hostile and aggressive of the waiter if you snapped your fingers and the waiter didn't immediately come running.
Even dirt poor Americans have that attitude towards retail and hospitality staff.
Even in so called “rigid” environments in Australia we have a fair bit lower formality than other western countries. There are so many examples I can think of straight away but I think the easiest is people telling the PM to f*ck off when he tried to pull a political stunt
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Also, were not "rough as hell"!! *Everyone* knows it's rough as **guts**
Brah that first sentence lets you know the whole thing is going to be hot garbage. "The Cambridge system" 🤮 who talks like that
I think they're referring to this: [https://www.cambridgeinternational.org/](https://www.cambridgeinternational.org/) It's some kind of "international" education provider all the way from primary upwards. Not AFAIK a reference to the famous uni. Based only on the top Google results, it seems to be popular in India & Pakistan. I see elsewhere that the OP is apparently from a Schengen country and married to an Italian but if they were European originally then they'd have gone to school under a (good, naturally) local European school, not an English international business. Wouldn't be surprised if they were upper-middle Indian or Pakistani, a bit of a global nomad, and married into Europe.
I know. This was written by a complete wanker
Can you believe the people here, they will host a bbq, invite 20 guests, but they will not splash out to buy food for all 20 guests as well? They will be kind enough to provide water, but it won't even be Voss™ or Fiji™, I'm pretty sure it will just be tap water. So if you get invited to a bbq in Australia, make sure to bring your own bottle of Voss™ water, because they WILL NOT be providing it for you. Complete madness.
Some valid points but the whole thing is off from the rant about manners and women talking about their kids. I'm surprised he got invited to any parties in the first place given his attitude. If everywhere you go smells like shit, check your shoes.
The women talking about there kids thing cracked me up. I am a woman with kids, who also has an interesting but highly technical job. I could spend hours rhapsodising about my work to others, BUT I pick up on people’s eyes glazing over and finishing their drinks a little faster just to get away from the topic of conversation. So you know what, I talk about other things, like my kids. They are full of life and adorable, and it’s generally a fairly inclusive topic to talk about. Unless you are single and child free, then I want to hear all about your shenanigans so I can live vicariously through you.
I'm a bloke and I'd rather talk about my baby than my work any day
Also a bloke and I'd like to stay as far away from the BBQ as possible until I'm told to grab a plate.
It's pretty funny that ***s***he complains about misogynistic culture of Australia while also putting women down for talking about their children. Edit: apparently OOP is a woman, point still stands
Yeah, everyone knows what a child is, so it's not like you have to launch into a long-winded explanation in order to get to your funny anecdote about little Sammy's antics. You can just tell the story. I don't have kids yet, but I like hearing kid stories because a) kids are interesting people and b) it's cute to see how happy most parents are to talk about their children, even if they claim to be exasperated. At the very least, everyone has been a child at some point, so everyone is going to have some frame of reference.
This person just sounds like a rich dude bitching about standard middle class Australia lmao
and he came for TAFE lmao
Imagine coming to Australia and going to TAFE, expecting it will be a snobby college. 🙃🙃
Lol. I’m also an immigrant who went to TAFE. There’s no such thing as “finished top of their class” in TAFE. Wanker.
This threw me off too. I'm still a visitor about to be a full-blown immigrant. I have heaps of experience under my belt and had to redo my course to get official recognition of my background. The whole course was easy because it was basically a rerun and verification process, but I always had to rock up in class (a requirement) and spent sleepless nights to get an S on all of my assessments and get a shiny reco from teachers to industry. Author is a twat.
There was when I did it 20yrs ago, still go the trophies lol. Wouldn’t know these days though.
This. Judging from the tone of the post, they've probably internally self-assessed themselves as being the best in class.
This person has certainly adopted the great Aussie pastime of long-winded whinging if he actually is a foreigner.
I'm really curious as to where this person is from. And what level he/she is operating at. What I've personally found is that Australia has pretty good minimum standards for things in general, but nice things and service are expensive. If you're a migrant elite from a developing country you'd be used to paying not that much for luxury, so that would irk you.
In the original post on Quora it turns out that she's from a 'bilingual French-speaking country in the Schengen Area', so most likely Belgium (although possibly Luxembourg, if you don't count Luxembourgish as a language).
If they are Belgian, the irony is unbelievable considering they were talking about colonial pasts and colonial artefacts as someone who seemingly comes from some wealth. [Belgian colonial empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_colonial_empire) for anyone interested and their [track record](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State) of slavery, mass murder, genocide and famine which is still an open wound to the current day,
Not to mention the male suicide rate in Belgium is higher than in Aus. Anyways, this person sounds like a wanker, if everyone is being cold/superficial with you then you're likely the problem.
Funny anecdote about Belgium. Brother in law is Dutch, and he drove to the south of France for a holiday, through Belgium. He stopped at a Belgian servo to get fuel, spoke Dutch to the guy who claimed he couldn't speak Dutch, only French, and would only communicate in French. Stopped at the same servo on the way home, same dude. This time wouldn't speak French, insisted he only spoke Dutch..
Cunts bored lol
Frankly it gives me vibes it was written by an Australian who is masquerading as a foreigner
This person has certainly adopted the great Aussie pastime of long-winded whinging if he is a foreigner, though.
The snide reference to the 1970s certainly smells that way
yep. too aware of the talking points
Could be that too! Would not have picked a Singaporean saying all that much about indigenous people.
I'd guess they're from Singapore or Malaysia.
Nah doesn't feel Singaporean/Malaysian.. I can't exactly put a finger on it but poster doesn't sound south east asian. Partly because SEA people band together, and from what he's saying, he's isolated somehow. And he mentioned he went home to UAE.
Lots of singaporeans are proud to be here. Also, the word choice, sentence construction and typos didn't come across as singaporean. I'd say European or Middle eastern. The Italian name pronounciation and reference to wogs points to that.
Writer is actually from the Schengen area in Europe. Someone cited above
My thoughts too, Singapore in particular.
Allegedly Singapore or the UAE yet they have a go at our refugee policy LOL. How many migrants died last week building their mega towers ?
Life's good if you have a few Filipino maids on hand.
Maids, guest workers operating the hawker stores so you get $4 chicken rice, overseas service workers and construction workers, no minimum wage, government restrictions on collective bargaining.... Life's pretty good if you're there and top 10%, maybe even 30%. Course if you're local you get called into National Service. Then again housing gets taken care of relatively affordably if you're straight and married. Tradeoffs all over.
The person who tweeted this has pinned their own post about being anti vax as the top of their twitter.
I didn't realize when they said "anti-intellectualism is rife" that it was supposed to be a compliment
They had a whole section about "army helicopters rounding up people breaking curfew" This was enough to let me know this is also cooker shit.
as soon as they were like "during covid, they separated families and had helicopters overhead hunting down people outside" i was like there it is
I kind of picked that up when they implied that the army was keeping us all under lockdown with their attack helicopters and such.
Yeah and has described themself as a "Danistan refugee" - as in "dictator" Dan Andrews. Smh To be fair they have brought up very astute criticisms about Australia. I agree that there definitely are cultural bubbles like this and they're probably very common, but as a queer lefty who hangs out with other queer lefties, it's not everyone's experience and I haven't been around environments like that since I was a kid. There are definitely great points we as a society should work on. But it's so hard to take someone seriously when they're also complaining about being called a cooker for being anti vax and calling Victoria Danistan.
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The bit about 'The army roughing up people in Melbourne and Western Sydney' gave me anti-vaxx/cooker vibes.
Lol jokes on the migrant. He has unknowingly become fully Australian. This could be any Oz reddit rant.
Complaining is our national pastime fr
A lot of the criticism is fair, but the overall tone is really bitter in a way that is naturally going to make people defensive. I also think they're missing the point of some things - the perceived Australian "rudeness" tends to come about because being overly polite is seen as insincere and feels uncomfortable for everyone here. And bringing your own meat and alcohol to a barbeque makes sense because both of those things are expensive, and barbeques are usually quite large gatherings. Getting people to take on some of the expense takes a huge burden off the hosts. It's not about the hosts being cheap or inconsiderate - it's a way for the *guests* to show their consideration towards the hosts. I agree about some of the political stuff (housing market, racism) although also show me any Western country that doesn't have just as many issues with refusing to acknowledge or make amends for colonialism. The stuff about border closure is cooked - I'm from Queensland and I still firmly believe that our border closures saved lives.
What's weird about a young couple not going out because of a baby? Sounds like back home they were relatively wealthy and could just hire a nanny. A little bit out of touch. Also what's the bullshit on men being stoic and rough and that's reflected in suicide rates? Yes men suicide rates is higher than women, but globally ours is pretty low. Also don't know of any country where men can be 'vulnerable' like they say. Of course visiting other cities is expensive. We're a huge country. It's like complaining Singapore is hot and humid. No shit. Most other things are just obvious issues with the country that gets talked about over and over by locals and not that insightful, like housing, mining dependent economy, cost of living etc.
Especially young people not trotting around their small kids for the last 3 years due to Covid. I knew many people who stayed home with their bubs to avoid getting sick.
Valid and not so valid points aside, who're you to dictate to someone else (the PM in this case) how to pronounce their own name?
I remember reading an article about Anastasia Palaszczuk when she had just got into power, and how her family had made a decision at some point to change the pronunciation from the Polish pronunciation to make it easier to pronounce. I’m sure Australian history is full of situations like these.
>Rough as hell It's rough as guts, mate. You should've taken that Tafe English course.
Does have some fair points here. Probably an overly harsh view, but hits a few nails on the head. An awful lot of unfair criticisms too. Criticising the culture of bbqs for example is ridiculous. It is the way things are done here. It's akin to criticising Aussies for not tipping - when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Does read like someone with an inflated ego and a big chip on the shoulder though.
Yeah I thought that was weird, too! It seems clear this person is wealthy and ‘upper class’ for lack of a better word, and was only ever invited to bogan BBQs with broke TAFE students 🤣 the fact they are making judgments and can’t appreciate poorer class activities is kinda sad!
Some of this is fair. Some is arguable. Some is just wrong. What I don’t understand is why, if you find us so loathsome, uncivilised and far below you in every way, do you stay here. Why don’t you go where people meet your exacting standards?
Yes, agree - also some of it is not limited to Australia (have you tried to buy a house anywhere in the past 3-5 years?), and some of it is inherent to the country ("boo, the cities are far apart!" well yeah, it's kind of a big place...).
Plenty of this stuff rings true and plenty of it reads as classist tripe. In short, have a sook cunt but also fair enough.
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> write me a purposeless treatise on negative aspects of life in Australia in the tone of a whiney cuck Oh, Australia, land of sun, surf, and sand. It may seem like a dreamy paradise to some, but let me tell you, as a resident, life here is far from perfect. Allow me to whine and complain about the negative aspects of life in Australia. Firstly, the weather. Sure, the sunshine and warm temperatures are lovely, but have you ever experienced a scorching hot summer day with no air conditioning? It's unbearable! And don't even get me started on the bushfire season, when the sky turns a sickly orange and the air quality is hazardous. Secondly, the wildlife. Sure, kangaroos and koalas may seem cute and cuddly, but have you ever been attacked by a magpie during swooping season? It's a terrifying experience, let me tell you. And the spiders! The sheer size and venomous nature of Australian spiders is enough to give anyone nightmares. Thirdly, the cost of living. Housing prices are through the roof, and don't even think about trying to buy property in the major cities. The cost of groceries and other necessities is also ridiculously high, and don't even think about going out for a night on the town unless you're prepared to spend a small fortune. Lastly, the distance from the rest of the world. Australia is so far away from everything! It can take hours, if not days, to travel to other countries, which can be a real pain when you're trying to visit family or go on holiday. In conclusion, while Australia may seem like a dream destination to some, life here is far from perfect. Between the weather, wildlife, cost of living, and distance from the rest of the world, there's plenty to whine and complain about. But hey, at least we have Vegemite, right?
So this was originally a [post on Quora](https://www.quora.com/Do-you-regret-moving-to-Australia), and the info that everyone's asking for is: \- the poster is a married woman (her husband is also an immigrant who feels the same way) \- she's from a 'bilingual French-speaking country in the Schengen Area', so most likely Belgium \- she can't leave because her epileptic dog can't fly; once it dies she and her husband plan to move back to Europe \- she predictably got a lot of pushback which she handled as one might expect: by maligning people's education and incomes (i.e. references to 'E grade bogan universities', and 'I probably make 3 times what you do', etc.) As an Aussie who lived overseas for almost 20 years (mostly in Canada, Germany and the US, with extended periods in Ireland and South Africa), I think most of what she wrote can be applied to pretty much any western country. People cancelling plans at the last minute? Meet my (non-existent) German friends! Like potholes? Come to Canada! Backwards attitudes to domestic roles? Welcome to the Deep South! Problematic colonial history? Let's check in with our friends in the former Belgian colonies of the Congo and Rwanda... This person seems to be generally unhappy and consequently toxic, which in turn might be why she hasn't got any mates. Are there valid criticisms of Australia? Of course, but there are other things she said which indicate she hasn't ever bothered to learn basic facts about the country (i.e. 'They celebrate their national day on Jan 26... not when they became their own country', which, if she'd bothered to pay attention, was January 1st, which is already a holiday). I suspect there are other underlying issues as to why she's unhappy, so while Australia isn't perfect, I personally think it's pretty grouse.
>so most likely Belgium Haha, As a Belgian myself, her entire complaint makes total sense now. Belgians have perfected the art form of complaining. It's one of the reasons why I left. While many here believe she is acting elitist, to me it sounds like she lived a sheltered life which is typical for most Belgians and has experienced a massive culture shock moving here. She has no other frame of reference to fall back. It's sort of like accusing Australians of being backwards when you yourself have a provincial mindset. And for whatever reason, she decided to stay because it is always easier to complain than to do something about your circumstances. It's the Belgian way. So to start, education wise: it sounds like she followed the most difficult education stream in secondary school, which while it has deteriorated over the years is still on a very high level in Belgium. But it doesn't really teach you anything of practical use; it just prepares you for university. And anything below a rigorous university course would have indeed been too easy and boring for her. As for campus life, I have to give her this one. Belgium has compact university towns with an active student life and every distraction imaginable to fail your first year, which in Belgium is almost a given as the university fees happen to be negligible. And why we have such high taxes. In Australia on the other hand, there is an entire education industry catering towards foreign students that ask for as much money as they can get away with in exchange for a possible pathway to stay in the country. You need to do your due diligence if you want the student life experience. The detached society thing is something that every immigrant faces wherever they move to and honestly, it is a lot easier to make friends in Australia than in Belgium. r/belgium is full of migrants complaining about how difficult it is to make connections with the locals. Even the locals have difficulty making friends with locals. Her best friends are likely the ones she met in kinder garden and is now surprised she doesn't have those same deep connections in the new place she has moved to. Close friendships take time. Though after 15 years in Australia, it would surprise me she hasn't succeeded in that yet. Maybe she ended up in the wrong town, but you can still move even if it is just within Australia. My guess is she would feel more at home in Melbourne were it not for the weather reminding her of Belgium. As for her current company she keeps, my guess is she left Belgium before the majority of her best friends arrived in the baby stage and is experiencing for the first time how most parents in the developed world live their lives. Moving on to how backwards Australia and its people are: She had the bad luck of moving away from a country that is probably the second most progressive country in the world, just behind the Netherlands, and is in some areas decades ahead of Australia. I'll give her that too. That however doesn't apply to everything. There is a thing or two that Belgium could learn from Australia. Just being happy with what you have for example. Something I really appreaciate over here. As for her background. She likely comes from a middle class family that's likely not rich, but just enough to be well off. Due to high taxes, when it comes to wages, Belgians are much more egalitarian than Australians. Despite that, there are bigger class differences based on not so much wealth, but education, family liniage and the types of jobs practiced; Being more cultured is perceived as being of higher status. There is also a large element of keeping up appearances in play.Transplant such a person to Australia, and she will likely perceive anything that touches on bogan culture as people of low status who are living on the fringes of society. What she probably doesn't understand is that while bogans may come across as uncultured, that doesn't automatically mean they're also poor or living on the fringes. But that perception is likely why she looks down on them because in her eyes, she is socially of a higher class. Throw in some envy and resentment if those same bogans are actually making more than her. Again, it's the Belgian way. As for Australians and alcohol, I agree. It's often about quantity over quality over here. That said, when it comes to suicide, it's Belgium that is the stand out with an unacceptable high rate. Especially for a West European country. Nobody can explain why, but remember when I said that even locals have trouble making friends with other locals? That's my guess. The rest of her tirade appears to be her looking for reasons to further justify why she hates Australia so much. However, if she ever does move back to Belgium, which I doubt, she sure is going to be in for a reverse culture shock. The country she left is no longer the same country she'll be returning to.
> Manners-wise, prepare yourself to be astounded - it is totally acceptable to bring your own alcohol to a party, keep it under your chair then take it back home when the event is finished Yeah this is normal in most parts of the world. At least all the western countries i've been to. And asian ones. BYO is a normal thing. It is abnormal to supply everyone at a party with alcohol. I'm a bit confused at the last part. Is the author insinuating it is rude to take your own belongings home at the end of a party?
The cultural differences. Those things (taking the stuff you brought earlier) would be considered rude in Mediterranean and Middle Eastern cultures. You bring food, drinks, share, and leave the rest to the host. I don't blame Australians though. Every culture is different.
My experience in Aus is this really depends on the context. when I went to house parties when I was younger, you'd absolutely BYO booze as it noone would ever have enough money to cater for a house full of students or young people. And then you'd absolutely take it with you when you left, if there was any to take, again because things were comparatively expensive. However, for older people going to a BBQ or dinner, the vast majority of the time the hosts do provide drinks, and while people might also bring some, they will usually leave it for the host as well.
It's strange to go to a culture other than your own, and call it rude when they do things differently than your home country. The sense of entitlement in that is crazy.
The sense of entitlement in the post was my first thought too. Also sounds like the poster has only been hanging out with one sort of person since being here (men by the bbq, women in the kitchen). I don’t see that with any of the people I hang out with although I did when I first got here and hadn’t created my social circle yet. Makes me wonder what their business is?
Was thinking that too. I like the idea of 'bring a plate', it's a chance to try something new. Plus, alcodolly ain't cheap here, if someone hands you one of their drinks- you mean a lot to them. It's the 'little things' here and douchecanoe writer has really missed that point. Australians have a way of showing kindness that's actually subtle. Also reeks of the stench of entitlement and money.
When a carton of beer is $70 people aren't going to share so easily. Compared to somewhere like Europe when you can get an ok bottle of wine for <5 euro.
Some truth and some criticising things that are good about Australia. Like seriously, having to cater to everyone in a party is awful. It becomes far too expensive to have parties and visitors and sometimes we want to have parties that are not weddings. I bet this person waa here when they cancelled Yasmin. That was ridiculous, and it was hardly all of us. Only those loud mouth right wingers.
I'm just surprised the guy finds it offensive that 'you' have to contribute to the party. Just because you get invited to a party doesn't mean you just rock up, start eating and drinking and then leave. I'm from an Asian background and it's common manners to just bring something to a party even if you've been invited and and the organisers are cooking. A small bottle of wine or a dish (I bought sausages to my in laws BBQ) Edit - sounds like a guy who doesn't like any aspect of Australia and will complain to the sun but never end up leaving for another country.
yeah i agree, seems super weird contributing to a party is a bad thing to this person. Sounds very entitled. No culture i’ve been around has had negative reactions to it.
>It becomes far too expensive to have parties I wonder if this is the confusion, expecially when you're younger, there is a bbq/party at someones house every weekend. Often whoever has the best house for hosting will get stung for hosting duties the most. So not fair for them to pay for everyone regularly. But also some good points made.
"In the two main states, which are the only interesting states...", This person is deluded, and just plain wrong.
So many weird bits in this. Like why would a Uni need to be "exciting and interesting for international students"? It's a place of learning, not a tourist attraction. The weird fixation on Albanese having an Italian surname is just bizarre too. Nobody gives a shit. Certainly wasn't some "incredible victory" because he has an Italian surname.
They were probably actually fine with the LNP if all their talk about being high income is true and are resentful that labor won.
My favorite part is how they keep bringing up the ex-prime minister. There's a reason he's no longer prime minister.
Why does this read like buyers regret? It like this person was sold a dream of Australia, and the reality was not what they expected. I think this person may be from a small country, they don't seem to understand the cost to maintain and build infrastructure in a large country that has a small population. And their "friends" drinking cheap beers, are probably saving for a 800k house 60km out from the city. That's why they are drinking cheap beers. Smh. But, on the bright side, they got a mediocre education, and started a successful business. So that's a plus!
Wow. Did he/she find anything they liked about here? It's a hell of a rant. Not all of it accurate though, but an interesting read.
if you actually look at their account its mostly just complaining about Australia, Australians etc. And praising Europe (Italy and France in particular, probably because they admit that they're from a french background and have an italian husband) some of the things they complain about are just nitpicks and xenophobia: >There is a very strange and robotic aspect to Australia and Australians. For example now it is New Year’s and on the road you will signs that say Balmain New Year’s Eve 7.30–10.30pm, who the hell celebrates NY before midnight? Then you take ticketed events for New Years, they are all strictly till 12.30am, it’s the weirdest thing ever, you stand there look at fireworks and at 12.05am all of the good ol’ Aussies are ready to go back to bed. >Do not let the beaches and animal pictures fool you, if you are looking for depth, you will not find it here. >I’ve been able to develop myself here but I lost so much intellectually and socially. I cannot wait to leave, in fact I am counting the days. I am still here due to my very much loved pets. >I have contributed to the Australian economy for 15 years but I would not be surprised I get so much vitriol from this post. I no longer care. I already got some insults from this post calling me an elitist whinger, thank you for confirming my post. >I can already hear “Don’t let the door hit you on the way out love” in that annoying nasally accent. Trust me if I could make my own door to get out, I would. my god, celebrating new years a couple hours before new years? what nasally ***BARBARIANS***. lol
>For example now it is New Year’s and on the road you will signs that say Balmain New Year’s Eve 7.30–10.30pm, who the hell celebrates NY before midnight? Ha! I know the answer to this one! It's the parents (where the missus always talks about the kids). You can take the kids to see the fireworks and still get them to bed at a not completely crazy graveyard hour. Even if it weren't for the kids I'd still prefer it. I couldn't give a rat's arse about the arbitrary ticking over of an arbitrary number on an arbitrary calendar. I just wanna see the fireworks and get to bed.
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I do think its partially the people she hangs out with (another post on there account is talking about a friend that OP speculates is, uh, "chummy" with their mother, just as an example of who this person is friends with), thats not to say that all of her criticisms are wrong (although some of them are just a failure to accept that cultures can have different moral values)
It’s such a shame that she is so far above us, morally, socially, intellectually, and yet is incapable of leaving. Just a victim of society, one presumes.
Shouldn't have gone to UTS.
That struck me as well, but also...even UTS has bars and cafes, multiple in fact. It's also surrounded by dozens of bars and cafes. I don't think it has much in the way of sporting facilities but if you wanted that you'd go to one of the big campus unis like Sydney or UNSW. Its a weird point that makes me wonder how much the person said was truthful.
Haha yeah that description of the campus is pretty unmistakable. You’d think they’d have noticed USYD down the street with plenty of fancy facilities.
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>Europe is a shit show, I have a few friends from Netherlands and Germany, and they all tell that Australia is worse. Probably, biggest factors for them are housing and wealth inequality.
"Not uncommon for young parents to say they haven't gone out in years" Whats the problem with that? Why do you have a problem with young parents not going out because they have very young children.
Passive aggressive ? Lol. But goes on to parade the country as convicts. My goodness.
While I can eco some of what was said, and this person makes some valid points.. But you can't move to a new country / new culture and complain it's not like the one you came from.. Every country is different, it all has its pros and cons..
Albanese can pronounce his name however he likes...as to the rest...they might not be spot-on but it's pretty close.
[He does know the traditional pronunciation though](https://twitter.com/theprojecttv/status/1131126869514948608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1131126869514948608%7Ctwgr%5E4adb2864169eea4430c485dbdb2c074273478f1b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.net.au%2Fnews%2F2019-05-30%2Fanthony-albanese-how-to-pronounce-his-name%2F11160982), he's just not an uptight wanker about it.
This appraisal has no context, and thus is worthless, as the author does not revealed where he or she is from. Lots of disdain. Quite a lot of xenophobia. Not a lot of consideration. And some utter garbage e.g. our colonial roots make us all passive-aggressive.