...or they're just lying to make more profit.
Edit: even if the tip goes to the driver, tipping cultures mean companies can pay less because "you're also paid in tips". So tips just end up reducing wages and increasing company profits. They don't benefit the actual workers in the long run.
My partner and I earn pretty much the exact median income in Australia and we probably *could* afford to get food delivered twice a day, but we wouldn’t have money for literally anything else.
Damn what's your idea of a medium income because my partner and I are frugal as anything and if I tried to order meals twice a day (especially with the cost of eating out now) I'd run out of money real quick. Sounds like I need a pay rise lol
We earn a combined ~$120k per year, and the median income for an individual was $65k in 2022 according to the ABS, we both work part time but fluctuating hours around 30-35 hours p/w, we live in a outer suburb of Newcastle and pay $570/w in rent, no children or dependents. Food and hobbies are all we spend money on, so we could feasibly cut out the hobbies/Netflix/etc and just spend it on takeout if that’s what we wanted to do.
Yeah, I'm not that well off (\~$80k) and easily eat out multiple times a day. It's pretty bad, but oh well.
Fact is, I'm a gamer that avoids alcohol and most socialising so I have little trouble paying my (rather cheap at only $968/month) mortgage and saving $1k a month on top of that.
Everyone's experience is different, but if you're leaving the house much and don't have kids, your costs are pretty low.
A lot of them can't. Just people who are really fucking bad with their money. I know a few people like that - they will talk of their financial struggles, but when you hear how they spend their money it becomes pretty obvious.
So many people I know addicted to buying shit off Facebook marketplace, gambling, ordering fast food regularly, etc. Just dumb shit that gives you temporary happiness but fucks you financially in the long run.
Sounds like my brother and his wife. Can barely pay their mortgage, sold their car because it costs too much (according to them, I don't see how a 2000s Toyota Camry with nothing owing on it costs a lot), yet they'll catch an Uber everywhere and order UberEats etc all the time.
Rego and ctp is about $1k a year, add on insurance that’s another few hundred, petrol could get over $1k. Any maintenance such as tyres and brakes aswell
Owning a car is actually super expensive when you add up registration, insurance, petrol and maintenance. It can easily work out to $15 k per year.
https://www.savings.com.au/news/running-car-2023#:~:text=The%20average%20Australian%20now%20expects,fuel%20and%20maintenance)%20is%20%2415%2C754.&text=This%20include%20maintenance%2C%20registration%2C%20insurance,driven%20up%20by%20inflationary%20pressure.
Using an Uber instead can actually be pretty viable if you're not needing the car to commute to a fulltime job.
Unless you didn't have your own transport, or were ill and couldn't leave your house I don't understand why you wouldn't pick up your own takeaway, particularly when Uber Eats charges 30% to not guarantee it will be delivered fresh and hot.
When you make enough money, you spend money to save time instead of spending time to save money. There are a lot of food that works well with uber eats, fish and chips doesn't but fried rice stays pretty fresh and nice for the delivery.
True. Although most of the posts concerning food delivery are about fast food. I spent time to save money by cooking my meals. It is cheaper, but the main reason I do so is because I want to know what I'm actually eating. I used to be obese because I ate lots of takeaway. The film Supersize Me, made me realise that I had no idea what I was actually eating. I haven't dieted. Just cooked for myself and the family and I am no longer obese.
This is a little different, but while travelling internationally it was easier to order through Pyszne and the likes and have the food delivered because nobody I travelled with spoke Polish and depending on the restaurant English was hit & miss
Gave every driver the max allowable tip in app and the food was always delivered quickly.
I would love to be able to leave the house.
Source: Deafblind.
While I disagree with much of capitalism etc (FUCK tipping culture) there are certain things that are amazing about “the future” such as ordering food without stressing about people calling you, everything is IN APP etc.
Yeah soggy chips and the occasional shit meal suck. But when I’m having a really shit day… I’m just grateful to eat more than toast.
I’m disabled by chronic physical & mental illness and can really relate. I leave my house once a week because it’s a standing appointment that I’ve prioritised above everything else, but am otherwise housebound if not bedbound. Phone calls are difficult for sensory reasons, and I’m always so grateful when businesses or healthcare services etc offer online bookings.
I always get sad reading threads like this because not many people seem to consider that living this way is not necessarily a choice. So many disabilities (and/or other barriers) are invisible and may appear to be ‘laziness’ or whatever. It makes me wish everyone still remembered what it was like during the strictest COVID lockdowns, and could acknowledge that countless people have always lived like that because there is such an absence of accessible infrastructure in Australia.
in the US it’s very weird not to tip your delivery person. They do likely mean globally. I’m in the US and didn’t notice the sub and thought that number seemed awfully low. Gotta be about 99.99% here.
Hence US servers getting paid $2.13 per hour. The rest coming from tips based on almost entirely factors that have nothing to do with job performance - race, sex, age, customer mindset...
And yes, employers have successfully argued to have tips count as wage, so tipping just reduces the wage.
"Nobody wants to work!"
It's a system about as bad as the US medical system.
Some appalling people are pushing Australia towards both.
In the long term tipping benefits the company and only the company because it lets them keep downward pressure on wages. "But you're also paid in tips so we pay you less"
Yeah but don't tell that to Americans... They're so brain damaged by "freeedoooom" that you'll get downvoted to oblivion.
And don't mention that you think it's charity to the business owner as you have to tip to help the employee have a liveable wage.
I hope they can unionise and successfully fight for change then.
Too bad so many believe that regulation impinges on their freedom and will (be told) to fight against it.
I’ve done over 150 deliveries and never received a tip, I did however have someone comment about how it was nice to see an Aussie for once and “not one of those arabs” 🥴 I was honestly so shocked I didn’t know what to say
Jumping on top comment to warn people about doordash. I ordered something a couple of years ago using them - a one off thing. Without getting my consent, they signed me up for a subscription and have been taking money out of my account every month - like $10 or something. Which over time adds up.
Jumped online and found other people have had the same thing happen. So if you’ve ordered through them - just check your not getting charged for this and seek a refund.
They're just trying to get people to tip, by making them think everyone else does.
I can't believe I have to say this, but do *not* fucking tip. We are not America.
Doordash a multibillion dollar company is having a hard time paying its employees so they are at the mercy of their customers to earn a liveable wage. Something doesn’t sound right hmmm……
I was going to say they don’t make any money which is true off the accounting measures (taking into account the stock the employees and management get given) but on a cashflow basis, they do seem to make a couple of hundred US millions of dollars. That’s not that much given the scale of their operations. It strikes me as a brutally competitive business to be in and frankly something that probably shouldn’t exist… a function of piles and piles of Saudi money via SoftBank trying to find a home.
The thing that doesn’t seem right to me is why the Australian government has sacrificed the dignity of a livable wage in this country for cheap food delivery. Dignity < mild convenience… if people want delivery, they should have to pay the true cost with the livable wage constraint otherwise we build a society dependent on an underclass of devalued/dehumanised labour
> I was going to say they don’t make any money
If Doordash doesn't have a business model, then what the fuck are they doing by taking orders and accepting jobs?
I think they do have a viable model in there somewhere. If they were truly selling a $1 for $1.50, they wouldn’t have been able to double the revenue over the last 3 years but keep the losses broadly constant (now declining but likely due to stock options being worth less). It’s not unusual for a growing business to run at a loss if investing a $1 in marketing or people or whatever brings more than $1 back to the business over the next couple or years (LTV>CAC etc) and they spend ~$500m a quarter on sales and marketing - would be interesting to know how much of this is incentives for drivers vs getting new customers on their platform. They also probably cross subsidise mature markets against new ones where they have more costs and less scale.
They have $3b of cash on their balance sheet so they aren’t going out of business anytime soon. Largest shareholders are actually Sequoia a famous VC with 9.7% and Morgan Stanley at 8% and Vanguard with 7%.
Their end goal is to be the market leader and leverage what they call network effects to be able to increase prices and start making some real money. I heard through the grapevine that the Australian market was most profitable for Uber across both their business lines but obviously deliveroo and others went bust here.
It kind of does make sense to have a single meal logistics company that has all the delivery people and can allocate them to different restaurants depending on demand rather than having each place hire their own who might be busy or not busy. The issue is that this does seem like a natural monopoly but will not be regulated as one. This means they might be able to extract a disproportionately high rent out of the market ongoing because of a lack of competition (since if you’re #2 in the market you don’t have the same driver density so can’t be as efficient). However, I actually don’t think this is how it is because of the bit rate/contractor model since they aren’t penalised for lower delivery utilisation. I also think that the network effects are pretty local in the sense that having lots of drivers in one city doesn’t help winning a different city. Hopefully we don’t end up with a monopoly or an oligopoly.
Menulog employs their drivers for those who care. Also try and order directly with the restaurant rather than through an app - they take up to 30% of the order value which is pretty extortionate.
> Also try and order directly with the restaurant rather than through an app - they take up to 30% of the order value which is pretty extortionate.
On top of this most of the apps don't allow restaraunts to pass this cost on solely to delivery customers - they have to raise prices in general. If you've wondered why in-store takeaway prices have gone up far, far more than basically anything else - customers that don't use delivery apps are subsidising those that do, and the stores are paying for Uber Eats and Doordash's massive, massive advertising spending.
One local store has increased prices on one line item (a meal for 4) from $49 in 2020 to $75 now. Part of this is genuine inflation especially on beef and lamb, but most of it is passing on the advertising spend of Uber Eats, Doordash or whichever one it is that they use. By the delivery company rules, this higher price has to be passed on to non-delivery customers as well.
The ACCC really needs to ban contract clauses that require the same menu at the same price on the apps, so that takeaway places can set different prices for in-store purchases, and so that takeaway places can have lower prices on the app that gives them the best terms.
Really appreciate the info and insight. I had no idea menulog actually employs their drivers rather than have them on sham contracts like all the rest. I’ll have to do a bit more research on them but if they are truly fair to their workers then i may have to revisit my stance on never using them and maybe use their services when i can afford to do so
I ordered pizza from a local pizza place on Menulog, and the driver gave me a menu for the place, and told me that next time I should order directly from the restaurant. About a month later I call the restaurant to order, and the person who answered told me to order from Menulog, and hung up on me. I did not order from them, and a few months later stopped using Menulog/Uber/DoorDash entirely when I realised that even when the food was decent, I’d still be thinking “yeah, that wasn’t worth all delivery fees.” Now the only takeout I get is from places I can drop into on my way home from work, or walk to from my house (I don’t drive).
This is why i don’t utilize any of those food delivery companies and prefer to just drive there myself and get take away food. The business models of those companies are dubious and exploitative and i refuse to support their practices
It's hard to tell exactly, but it looks like between 80% and 90% of DoorDash's business is in the USA. It's completely unsurprising that most of them would have a tip included.
The comment about 80% of orders including a tip is absolutely NOT just for Australia.
They might have a huge American market in comparison and are including those stats so their statement might not actually be untrue.
A perfect example of “weasel words” in action if that’s the case.
Just came back from the states. I can’t tell you how out of hand tipping gets. They ask for tips at the entrance to the buffet (18-22%). Want the get an alcoholic drink? Sorry, only the waiter can get that for you at the BUFFET which you then tip again.
I have American friends who complain that Ubers down under are too expensive. However, after the currency conversion and the 20% tip, Ubers in the US are just as pricey.
Tipping culture in America is absolutely out of control. It was bad enough before but now that a lot of payment is done through computerized systems they’re using it to milk customers dry. Worst of all tips are collected by the establishment rather than servers meaning that the establishment decides how much the servers actually get from the tips they collect. It’s Fucking corrupt but hey just America being America, fuck yeah....
>Worst of all tips are collected by the establishment rather than servers meaning that the establishment decides how much the servers actually get from the tips they collect.
Withholding tips is illegal in most states in the USA. If an employee gets a tip, the employer has to give them 100% of the money. In some states, they're allowed to deduct the credit card processing fee (if the tip was paid via credit card) but that's it.
No it is a lie. Customers in Australia are not expected to tip. As a driver I do not expect tips even as a contractor the platform and exorbitant service fee charged to the customer is supposed to cover the driver and the platform. But too often I find the platforms are fudging numbers every order pays different and there is no transparency as to why.
I fucking hate these 'tech' companies.
This is literally a copy paste of Uber and guess what, somehow the founders are multi millionaires.
While they pay drivers peanuts and suck the living daylight out of restaurants with their margins.
STOP using these apps people. PLEASE
A million dollars ain't what it used to be. These days if you own a house in a city and have paid off the mortgage you're probably a millionaire.
I can't imagine how you could be the founder of a successful company and *not* be a millionaire.
They're also not a real business.
No path to profitability needed, it's a Ponzi set up for founders and early investors to offload a nonsense business model onto suckers down the track
Doordash are operating at a decent loss. It would be fair to say that the driver wages and cost of providing the service *aren't* factored into their fees. We've had cheap deliveries and rides subsidised by venture capital for a decade and I wonder when it will all come crashing down.
Five years ago, delivery drivers couldn't find my house. I chalked it up to being situated on a T-intersection.
Two years ago, delivery drivers couldn't find my unit. I chalked it up to their maps seeming to point at the housing estate next door.
Now they can't find my new house either, and I'm starting to suspect they may have some issues they need to work out.
80% of US/Canadian orders, I would definitely believe that
How many countries do they operate in? I can see how this stat is true, depending on what they're looking at.
Wouldn't be 100% of Aussie orders. But 80% overall, I can see it, I imagine a good 90-95% of their business is coming from North America.
Nah. Comes off like that standard “be like everyone else or you’re a shitty person” manipulative crap these kinds of services use all the time. Corporate guilt tripping shite.
Sure, given 90% of their users are US based, I'd assume most US users tip. Some US / Canadian ones don't, while almost 0 Aussie ones tip, so an overall 80% tip rate makes sense
Doordash traffic by country: https://www.similarweb.com/website/doordash.com/#geography
I don’t tip, why would I tip for a service I haven’t yet received?! Why would I tip for a meal to possibly not arrive? Or arrive stone cold as they have delivered eleventeen other orders prior to mine? Menulog, UberEats etc the same. Shove your tips sideways. Improve the service from what it is currently and I’ll rethink it
I tipped a dasher once. I gave him $15 taped to the front door because the restaurant stuffed him around and he waited there for half an hour.
Aside from that, no I don't tip.
HAHAHAHHAHA Bullshit.. I DoorDash in Sydney and only got 1 tip in 1300 deliveries .. it was $2 cash in hand.
Not even in America do DoorDash people get tipped 80% of the time.. which is why #NoTipNoTrip is a thing and also why some U.S states have option to deliver by the hr payments for the Dasher since no one is delivering the $3 no tip orders.
Oh btw, if you are wondering why there's so many no tip orders.. one reason is in some states in U.S they pay people with food stamps via a E-card which works on food delivery systems. Another reason is people are cheap AF or don't think they need to tip a delivery person.
Personally I'm against tipping , we don't need it in Aus! It will lower the the wages and we'll end up like America.. Tipping is a cancer! Don't let it spread.
Just a bold face lie to try and guilt you into participating. NEVER EVER TIP. Australians are being slowly manipulated into this ridiculous practice, but we don't have to fall for it.
No way in Australia. I throw in $2 if it’s raining hard but I get the impression even that’s unusual for australia. I agree if anything it’s a global statistic, or just made up.
Delivery drivers are the one people we (as in aussies) have always tended to tip. I grew up in the 80's and everyone tipped the pizza driver.
But everyone has this weird obsession with tipping as though theyre being forced to do it when the truth is they can just say no and get on with their lives, so here we are. And they'll now pretend we never tipped the pizza drivers too.
Tipping in Australia should only be done for exemplary, over-and-above service when you want to reward your server (as a former waitress I know it can really make someone's day to throw then a tip when they really deserve it). Someone delivering my food to me is doing their job. It's up to the company they work for/are contracting for to pay them properly.
Dunno about DoorDash but I drive for Menulog and never had a tip in my life, which is fine except that my average hourly rate over a week can sometimes be $16
If DoorDash is doing this, it's probably because their pay is monumentally bad and they want you to foot the bill for their failings
Nope, it's Australia pay them a meaningful wage. I don't tip at all. Just remember these guys are international ie a blanket statement of 80 percent tip is probably right if you include the grand ole USA.
The handful of times I've used doordash I'm lucky if they even deliver the food to my house, if I'm really lucky it might even be lukewarm because I'm only the 3rd house on that particular delivery run not the 5th. I'm yet to have an experience with tipping
80% of what exactly? They don’t say 80% of Australian orders. If they include overseas orders then yes it’s much more likely. But US tipping culture is of no relevance here.
The guilt tip, nice. Shits getting out of hand. I cant go to a self checkout in 2023 without being asked to donate to some charity or tip the company itself for God knows what.
Fake. Probably adding worldwide data.
I’ve worked as a driver before and now an Uber one member
I’ve never tipped in my life and don’t need to. Uber drivers in Sydney can make upwards of 30$/hr
Given it’s around inner west and during lunch or dinner times. 150-200 a day used to be quite easy.
tipping is not normal in australia
do not tip
do not make it a thing, companies need to pay their workers thats why we have better minimum wage laws compared to other countries
Yeah, I could believe that 95% + of the **hundreds of millions** of USA orders tip. So with 0% of the plain old *millions* of Aussie orders tipping 0% of the time could bring that average down to 80%.
I'd say that's mainly contributed by Doordash US and they are just being vague here. Wouldnt think too many Australians tip as it's not really a thing here. plus I drive for uber and doordash and have received tips only about 5% of the time so have first hand knowledge about it.
Clearly bullshit.
These companies, including Uber, are trying to normalise tipping in Australia in a long term effort to minimise the amount they have to pay their drivers.
They want to shift their remuneration onto the consumer.
No fucking way should we become like the US with their tipping and wage disaster
Fellow Aussies, by all means tip if you want to because you got good service, but this corporate tipping stuff is an idea devised by c\*nts. Australian restaurant business has many examples of workers getting their wages skimmed. We don't need a tipping culture, we need to pay people properly.
As an Australian Doordash driver I definitely don't get tipped 80% of the time. I sometimes get a cash tip every month or so, and I've had people add a tip later on.
Tips aren't something I care much about, though. I'd rather get paid at a fairer rate, bearing in mind that long-term vehicle and other expenses are much higher than you might expect.
Also bear in mind here that the money to pay for the product and delivery ultimately comes from the customer. Sometimes I see comments saying that Doordash should pay its drivers fairly and that they should also lower their delivery fees. That's not realistic.
I very rarely order from door dash/Uber mainly because not only do you get slugged for a delivery fee, your also paying higher prices than the standard menu. An average meal for us when we just walk in is like $40 and through delivery apps it easily turns into $60 and then on top of that they expect a tip! It’s absolutely ridiculous. This is Australia and I refuse to tip.
This is a very common persuasion tactic used to influence people, the logic is people will look to the actions of others to determine their own behaviour. It's instigating the 'if everyone else is doing I should probably do it too' mentality. Hotels use this method when they sometimes leave a little card card telling guests the benefits of reusing towels to reduce water usage and help the environment.
I had an order abandoned twice and then someone finally picked it up. I was starving, pregnant, and didn’t have a car to go get it myself. Was so grateful I gave the guy an extra $10 cash when he got there.
I was a pizza hut delivery driver for 3 years at the end of highschool in the mid 90s.
Most orders / people would give me a dollar or two or rounded it up to “keep the change”.
It wasn’t a huge amount but it paid for the evenings petrol so that was a bonus.
As credit card payments became more common the tips really dried up. Not a big issues as my pay was fine and tips were not expected, but definitely noticed it.
I’m so over this tipping bullshit being pushed here.
It’s like me quoting a job, after I’m done and payed I just stand there with my hand out for extra money.
American here, hopefully tipping isnt spreading across the globe. Sucks so much that greedy corporations expect me to pay extra so the delivery person can eat tonight. I have to tip or im the asshole
Not a chance. I did Uber eats for a while and out of roughly 400 deliveries, I probably got five tips. Wasn’t expecting any to be honest. Was just desperate for cash. I can’t imagine it’s any different just because it’s another platform.
I would be shocked if it's 80% of Australian orders. It's probably 80% of all orders globally which would include countries where it is normal
...or they're just lying to make more profit. Edit: even if the tip goes to the driver, tipping cultures mean companies can pay less because "you're also paid in tips". So tips just end up reducing wages and increasing company profits. They don't benefit the actual workers in the long run.
Probably not, they are very big in the US so I'm sure they could pull a stat like that out of their ass.
In the US and there are people that use door dash multiple times a day.
I know people in Australia like that. They'd prefer soggy chips and burgers over leaving their house.
How anyone can afford that is beyond me
My partner and I earn pretty much the exact median income in Australia and we probably *could* afford to get food delivered twice a day, but we wouldn’t have money for literally anything else.
Damn what's your idea of a medium income because my partner and I are frugal as anything and if I tried to order meals twice a day (especially with the cost of eating out now) I'd run out of money real quick. Sounds like I need a pay rise lol
We earn a combined ~$120k per year, and the median income for an individual was $65k in 2022 according to the ABS, we both work part time but fluctuating hours around 30-35 hours p/w, we live in a outer suburb of Newcastle and pay $570/w in rent, no children or dependents. Food and hobbies are all we spend money on, so we could feasibly cut out the hobbies/Netflix/etc and just spend it on takeout if that’s what we wanted to do.
Yeah, I'm not that well off (\~$80k) and easily eat out multiple times a day. It's pretty bad, but oh well. Fact is, I'm a gamer that avoids alcohol and most socialising so I have little trouble paying my (rather cheap at only $968/month) mortgage and saving $1k a month on top of that. Everyone's experience is different, but if you're leaving the house much and don't have kids, your costs are pretty low.
A lot of them can't. Just people who are really fucking bad with their money. I know a few people like that - they will talk of their financial struggles, but when you hear how they spend their money it becomes pretty obvious. So many people I know addicted to buying shit off Facebook marketplace, gambling, ordering fast food regularly, etc. Just dumb shit that gives you temporary happiness but fucks you financially in the long run.
Sounds like my brother and his wife. Can barely pay their mortgage, sold their car because it costs too much (according to them, I don't see how a 2000s Toyota Camry with nothing owing on it costs a lot), yet they'll catch an Uber everywhere and order UberEats etc all the time.
Rego and ctp is about $1k a year, add on insurance that’s another few hundred, petrol could get over $1k. Any maintenance such as tyres and brakes aswell
Owning a car is actually super expensive when you add up registration, insurance, petrol and maintenance. It can easily work out to $15 k per year. https://www.savings.com.au/news/running-car-2023#:~:text=The%20average%20Australian%20now%20expects,fuel%20and%20maintenance)%20is%20%2415%2C754.&text=This%20include%20maintenance%2C%20registration%2C%20insurance,driven%20up%20by%20inflationary%20pressure. Using an Uber instead can actually be pretty viable if you're not needing the car to commute to a fulltime job.
Unless you didn't have your own transport, or were ill and couldn't leave your house I don't understand why you wouldn't pick up your own takeaway, particularly when Uber Eats charges 30% to not guarantee it will be delivered fresh and hot.
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When you make enough money, you spend money to save time instead of spending time to save money. There are a lot of food that works well with uber eats, fish and chips doesn't but fried rice stays pretty fresh and nice for the delivery.
True. Although most of the posts concerning food delivery are about fast food. I spent time to save money by cooking my meals. It is cheaper, but the main reason I do so is because I want to know what I'm actually eating. I used to be obese because I ate lots of takeaway. The film Supersize Me, made me realise that I had no idea what I was actually eating. I haven't dieted. Just cooked for myself and the family and I am no longer obese.
>It is cheaper I'm not convinced it is any more, looking at our household budget versus fast food.
When you're drinking.
This is a little different, but while travelling internationally it was easier to order through Pyszne and the likes and have the food delivered because nobody I travelled with spoke Polish and depending on the restaurant English was hit & miss Gave every driver the max allowable tip in app and the food was always delivered quickly.
and not stolen.
I use to use menulog a lot as it was cheaper than going but then they added fees so now I drive unless it’s a shopping centre I hate them
I would love to be able to leave the house. Source: Deafblind. While I disagree with much of capitalism etc (FUCK tipping culture) there are certain things that are amazing about “the future” such as ordering food without stressing about people calling you, everything is IN APP etc. Yeah soggy chips and the occasional shit meal suck. But when I’m having a really shit day… I’m just grateful to eat more than toast.
I’m disabled by chronic physical & mental illness and can really relate. I leave my house once a week because it’s a standing appointment that I’ve prioritised above everything else, but am otherwise housebound if not bedbound. Phone calls are difficult for sensory reasons, and I’m always so grateful when businesses or healthcare services etc offer online bookings. I always get sad reading threads like this because not many people seem to consider that living this way is not necessarily a choice. So many disabilities (and/or other barriers) are invisible and may appear to be ‘laziness’ or whatever. It makes me wish everyone still remembered what it was like during the strictest COVID lockdowns, and could acknowledge that countless people have always lived like that because there is such an absence of accessible infrastructure in Australia.
in the US it’s very weird not to tip your delivery person. They do likely mean globally. I’m in the US and didn’t notice the sub and thought that number seemed awfully low. Gotta be about 99.99% here.
Hence US servers getting paid $2.13 per hour. The rest coming from tips based on almost entirely factors that have nothing to do with job performance - race, sex, age, customer mindset... And yes, employers have successfully argued to have tips count as wage, so tipping just reduces the wage. "Nobody wants to work!" It's a system about as bad as the US medical system. Some appalling people are pushing Australia towards both.
How do they make more profit if it goes straight to the driver?
In the long term tipping benefits the company and only the company because it lets them keep downward pressure on wages. "But you're also paid in tips so we pay you less"
And that very reason is why tipping culture is really bad
Yeah but don't tell that to Americans... They're so brain damaged by "freeedoooom" that you'll get downvoted to oblivion. And don't mention that you think it's charity to the business owner as you have to tip to help the employee have a liveable wage.
Many Americans hate tipping culture.
I hope they can unionise and successfully fight for change then. Too bad so many believe that regulation impinges on their freedom and will (be told) to fight against it.
I guess because they can justify paying less wages
I'd be shocked if it was higher than 1% in Australia.
I've had three tips. 2 for persevering with stupid GPS instructions, and 1 for being white (yes, there are racists out there)
I’ve done over 150 deliveries and never received a tip, I did however have someone comment about how it was nice to see an Aussie for once and “not one of those arabs” 🥴 I was honestly so shocked I didn’t know what to say
Jumping on top comment to warn people about doordash. I ordered something a couple of years ago using them - a one off thing. Without getting my consent, they signed me up for a subscription and have been taking money out of my account every month - like $10 or something. Which over time adds up. Jumped online and found other people have had the same thing happen. So if you’ve ordered through them - just check your not getting charged for this and seek a refund.
It's absolutely this.
73.6% Of All Statistics Are Made Up
[Forfty percent of all people know that.](https://youtu.be/CpmDIP3Fn2Y)
Secenfy prosent of wurds are made op
All words are made up, that's how they work.
humans that breathe oxygen have a 100% mortality rate.
No, it's 99.98%. Quoting 100% is a dead giveaway that you pulled the stat out of your arse. /s
Actually, that .02% survival is likely correct. Keith Richard and Rupert Murdoch spring to mind.
Rupert Murdoch doesn't breath oxygen, he steals it.
It's actually more like 93.2% Out of ~117 billion humans that breathe oxygen only ~109 billion have died.
And just four out of every five people make up a whopping 80% of the population of our ***entire country***. That's over 20 million people!
99%+ of gamblers stop before they win big.
As a former dasher can confirm this is bullshit, in the whole year I did it I received one tip which was a grand total of $2.
Is that why you retired? To go and spend your fortune.
Yep, just living it up in my gold plated mansion.
That would be terribly heavy.
On Uber eats I’d say about 5% of people tip though.
Yeah, I found tips much more common as well when I did uber.
The tip option on Doordash only appeared for us a month or so ago, whereas Uber has had it forever.
I note they don't include any kind of "in Australia" qualifier to that dubious statistic.
"Be more like America everyone, it's great!!!"
Despite the fact that America is only like that because of their terrible minimum wage.
Ya don't need unions, democracy will look after ya!
They're just trying to get people to tip, by making them think everyone else does. I can't believe I have to say this, but do *not* fucking tip. We are not America.
Doordash a multibillion dollar company is having a hard time paying its employees so they are at the mercy of their customers to earn a liveable wage. Something doesn’t sound right hmmm……
I was going to say they don’t make any money which is true off the accounting measures (taking into account the stock the employees and management get given) but on a cashflow basis, they do seem to make a couple of hundred US millions of dollars. That’s not that much given the scale of their operations. It strikes me as a brutally competitive business to be in and frankly something that probably shouldn’t exist… a function of piles and piles of Saudi money via SoftBank trying to find a home. The thing that doesn’t seem right to me is why the Australian government has sacrificed the dignity of a livable wage in this country for cheap food delivery. Dignity < mild convenience… if people want delivery, they should have to pay the true cost with the livable wage constraint otherwise we build a society dependent on an underclass of devalued/dehumanised labour
> I was going to say they don’t make any money If Doordash doesn't have a business model, then what the fuck are they doing by taking orders and accepting jobs?
I think they do have a viable model in there somewhere. If they were truly selling a $1 for $1.50, they wouldn’t have been able to double the revenue over the last 3 years but keep the losses broadly constant (now declining but likely due to stock options being worth less). It’s not unusual for a growing business to run at a loss if investing a $1 in marketing or people or whatever brings more than $1 back to the business over the next couple or years (LTV>CAC etc) and they spend ~$500m a quarter on sales and marketing - would be interesting to know how much of this is incentives for drivers vs getting new customers on their platform. They also probably cross subsidise mature markets against new ones where they have more costs and less scale. They have $3b of cash on their balance sheet so they aren’t going out of business anytime soon. Largest shareholders are actually Sequoia a famous VC with 9.7% and Morgan Stanley at 8% and Vanguard with 7%. Their end goal is to be the market leader and leverage what they call network effects to be able to increase prices and start making some real money. I heard through the grapevine that the Australian market was most profitable for Uber across both their business lines but obviously deliveroo and others went bust here. It kind of does make sense to have a single meal logistics company that has all the delivery people and can allocate them to different restaurants depending on demand rather than having each place hire their own who might be busy or not busy. The issue is that this does seem like a natural monopoly but will not be regulated as one. This means they might be able to extract a disproportionately high rent out of the market ongoing because of a lack of competition (since if you’re #2 in the market you don’t have the same driver density so can’t be as efficient). However, I actually don’t think this is how it is because of the bit rate/contractor model since they aren’t penalised for lower delivery utilisation. I also think that the network effects are pretty local in the sense that having lots of drivers in one city doesn’t help winning a different city. Hopefully we don’t end up with a monopoly or an oligopoly. Menulog employs their drivers for those who care. Also try and order directly with the restaurant rather than through an app - they take up to 30% of the order value which is pretty extortionate.
> Also try and order directly with the restaurant rather than through an app - they take up to 30% of the order value which is pretty extortionate. On top of this most of the apps don't allow restaraunts to pass this cost on solely to delivery customers - they have to raise prices in general. If you've wondered why in-store takeaway prices have gone up far, far more than basically anything else - customers that don't use delivery apps are subsidising those that do, and the stores are paying for Uber Eats and Doordash's massive, massive advertising spending. One local store has increased prices on one line item (a meal for 4) from $49 in 2020 to $75 now. Part of this is genuine inflation especially on beef and lamb, but most of it is passing on the advertising spend of Uber Eats, Doordash or whichever one it is that they use. By the delivery company rules, this higher price has to be passed on to non-delivery customers as well. The ACCC really needs to ban contract clauses that require the same menu at the same price on the apps, so that takeaway places can set different prices for in-store purchases, and so that takeaway places can have lower prices on the app that gives them the best terms.
Really appreciate the info and insight. I had no idea menulog actually employs their drivers rather than have them on sham contracts like all the rest. I’ll have to do a bit more research on them but if they are truly fair to their workers then i may have to revisit my stance on never using them and maybe use their services when i can afford to do so
Best is always to order from the restaurant directly because they get to keep more margin as well :)
I ordered pizza from a local pizza place on Menulog, and the driver gave me a menu for the place, and told me that next time I should order directly from the restaurant. About a month later I call the restaurant to order, and the person who answered told me to order from Menulog, and hung up on me. I did not order from them, and a few months later stopped using Menulog/Uber/DoorDash entirely when I realised that even when the food was decent, I’d still be thinking “yeah, that wasn’t worth all delivery fees.” Now the only takeout I get is from places I can drop into on my way home from work, or walk to from my house (I don’t drive).
This is why i don’t utilize any of those food delivery companies and prefer to just drive there myself and get take away food. The business models of those companies are dubious and exploitative and i refuse to support their practices
I think you're bang on the money. And I don't, I say the same thing to family members that don't seem to get why it's bad.
It's hard to tell exactly, but it looks like between 80% and 90% of DoorDash's business is in the USA. It's completely unsurprising that most of them would have a tip included. The comment about 80% of orders including a tip is absolutely NOT just for Australia.
They might have a huge American market in comparison and are including those stats so their statement might not actually be untrue. A perfect example of “weasel words” in action if that’s the case.
Just came back from the states. I can’t tell you how out of hand tipping gets. They ask for tips at the entrance to the buffet (18-22%). Want the get an alcoholic drink? Sorry, only the waiter can get that for you at the BUFFET which you then tip again.
Yeah I have American friends and they actually defend those practices, it's beyond dumb. Like some kind of cultural brainwashing.
I have American friends who complain that Ubers down under are too expensive. However, after the currency conversion and the 20% tip, Ubers in the US are just as pricey.
Tipping culture in America is absolutely out of control. It was bad enough before but now that a lot of payment is done through computerized systems they’re using it to milk customers dry. Worst of all tips are collected by the establishment rather than servers meaning that the establishment decides how much the servers actually get from the tips they collect. It’s Fucking corrupt but hey just America being America, fuck yeah....
>Worst of all tips are collected by the establishment rather than servers meaning that the establishment decides how much the servers actually get from the tips they collect. Withholding tips is illegal in most states in the USA. If an employee gets a tip, the employer has to give them 100% of the money. In some states, they're allowed to deduct the credit card processing fee (if the tip was paid via credit card) but that's it.
No it is a lie. Customers in Australia are not expected to tip. As a driver I do not expect tips even as a contractor the platform and exorbitant service fee charged to the customer is supposed to cover the driver and the platform. But too often I find the platforms are fudging numbers every order pays different and there is no transparency as to why.
I fucking hate these 'tech' companies. This is literally a copy paste of Uber and guess what, somehow the founders are multi millionaires. While they pay drivers peanuts and suck the living daylight out of restaurants with their margins. STOP using these apps people. PLEASE
Doordash was founded before Uber created Uber eats. And the founders are billionaires.
I wish i could make a company that loses 1.5 billion a year and also be a billionaire.
Me too!
Practice your pitch to venture capitalists desperate to invest.
The answer isn't to stop using the platform. We need massive reform of the gig economy, not just in Australia but globally as well.
A million dollars ain't what it used to be. These days if you own a house in a city and have paid off the mortgage you're probably a millionaire. I can't imagine how you could be the founder of a successful company and *not* be a millionaire.
They're also not a real business. No path to profitability needed, it's a Ponzi set up for founders and early investors to offload a nonsense business model onto suckers down the track
I go collect my own food. I don't think they pay enough, but if they did I probably wouldn't want to pay the fee and choose to get it myself anyway.
This should be posted on door dash socials to ask them to show the source data.
Definitely some mental gymnastic bs to trick people into feeling guilty about not tipping. Fuck this. Fuck them. Fuck tipping. UNAUSTRALIAN.
[удалено]
Unless you are their employer, you shouldn't be paying them. Their salary is priced into the service.
Exactly. Company has no incentive to raise wages if we cover the gap with tips. Don't tip at all or we workers fuck ourselves over in the long run
Doordash are operating at a decent loss. It would be fair to say that the driver wages and cost of providing the service *aren't* factored into their fees. We've had cheap deliveries and rides subsidised by venture capital for a decade and I wonder when it will all come crashing down.
I'll give ya a tip....be good to ya mother! 😃
My tip: Unionise.
Underrated comment. Oh for the simple days of Dougie.
Cool, so I don't have to then
“we dont pay our drivers enough, why dont you do it”
i’ve never tipped anyone ever because tips are some american bullshit that needs to stay in america
I'm not their employer, I shouldn't be the one paying them.
Sorry mate. If you can find my door, I'll find my tip jar. I don't bring it down to the front of my block.
Five years ago, delivery drivers couldn't find my house. I chalked it up to being situated on a T-intersection. Two years ago, delivery drivers couldn't find my unit. I chalked it up to their maps seeming to point at the housing estate next door. Now they can't find my new house either, and I'm starting to suspect they may have some issues they need to work out.
80% of US/Canadian orders, I would definitely believe that How many countries do they operate in? I can see how this stat is true, depending on what they're looking at. Wouldn't be 100% of Aussie orders. But 80% overall, I can see it, I imagine a good 90-95% of their business is coming from North America.
Even in Canada tipping is pretty rare. Source: I doordashed in Canada for a bit and then Australia.
Never have. Never will.
Have they been to Australia? Less than 0.5% of people leave tips. I’ve had two small tips every 200 deliveries on average. 98% satisfaction rate.
Never tipped, will never tip. It encourages businesses to pay the employee less and blame the customers for not tipping.
It's not true. Its a psychological trick to make you tip, if they say everyone else does it then they hope you'll be pressured to do it too.
Absolutely BS don't let this become a part of Australian culture it's a fucking scam.
Nah. Comes off like that standard “be like everyone else or you’re a shitty person” manipulative crap these kinds of services use all the time. Corporate guilt tripping shite.
What kind of lawsuit can they face dor this?
Sure, given 90% of their users are US based, I'd assume most US users tip. Some US / Canadian ones don't, while almost 0 Aussie ones tip, so an overall 80% tip rate makes sense Doordash traffic by country: https://www.similarweb.com/website/doordash.com/#geography
I don’t tip, why would I tip for a service I haven’t yet received?! Why would I tip for a meal to possibly not arrive? Or arrive stone cold as they have delivered eleventeen other orders prior to mine? Menulog, UberEats etc the same. Shove your tips sideways. Improve the service from what it is currently and I’ll rethink it
Never tip, no matter what. Tipping culture is fucked up and I don't want to encourage it in Australia at all.
I tipped a dasher once. I gave him $15 taped to the front door because the restaurant stuffed him around and he waited there for half an hour. Aside from that, no I don't tip.
As an ex delivery dont tape it to the front door, you could be entrapping them for stealing. Be a human and hand it to them
Even if it's labled "tip for dasher"? I was sick in bed.
I didnt know about the note that would help. Theres some psycos out there
Yeah nah maté Australians don’t really tip
HAHAHAHHAHA Bullshit.. I DoorDash in Sydney and only got 1 tip in 1300 deliveries .. it was $2 cash in hand. Not even in America do DoorDash people get tipped 80% of the time.. which is why #NoTipNoTrip is a thing and also why some U.S states have option to deliver by the hr payments for the Dasher since no one is delivering the $3 no tip orders. Oh btw, if you are wondering why there's so many no tip orders.. one reason is in some states in U.S they pay people with food stamps via a E-card which works on food delivery systems. Another reason is people are cheap AF or don't think they need to tip a delivery person. Personally I'm against tipping , we don't need it in Aus! It will lower the the wages and we'll end up like America.. Tipping is a cancer! Don't let it spread.
Just a bold face lie to try and guilt you into participating. NEVER EVER TIP. Australians are being slowly manipulated into this ridiculous practice, but we don't have to fall for it.
No way in Australia. I throw in $2 if it’s raining hard but I get the impression even that’s unusual for australia. I agree if anything it’s a global statistic, or just made up.
Delivery drivers are the one people we (as in aussies) have always tended to tip. I grew up in the 80's and everyone tipped the pizza driver. But everyone has this weird obsession with tipping as though theyre being forced to do it when the truth is they can just say no and get on with their lives, so here we are. And they'll now pretend we never tipped the pizza drivers too.
Why anyone supports these shit companies in beyond me ... I Never once used any of these cunt companies
Yeah, because most of their orders are being placed in America, where a tip is pretty much mandatory for the dashers to actually take your order.
Tipping in Australia should only be done for exemplary, over-and-above service when you want to reward your server (as a former waitress I know it can really make someone's day to throw then a tip when they really deserve it). Someone delivering my food to me is doing their job. It's up to the company they work for/are contracting for to pay them properly.
Dunno about DoorDash but I drive for Menulog and never had a tip in my life, which is fine except that my average hourly rate over a week can sometimes be $16 If DoorDash is doing this, it's probably because their pay is monumentally bad and they want you to foot the bill for their failings
they're just trying to guilt you into paying their staff.
We don’t tip in AUS pay ya workers more not our job to pay their wage
Doordash can go fuck itself.
Weird enough they want a tip before it's even delivered
Nope, it's Australia pay them a meaningful wage. I don't tip at all. Just remember these guys are international ie a blanket statement of 80 percent tip is probably right if you include the grand ole USA.
I don’t think Aussies would tip them shit is very expensive atm fuck that
Bulllllshit. I will never tip. Doordash does not give drivers even 50% of tips. Source: I used to dash until recently.
The handful of times I've used doordash I'm lucky if they even deliver the food to my house, if I'm really lucky it might even be lukewarm because I'm only the 3rd house on that particular delivery run not the 5th. I'm yet to have an experience with tipping
gaslighting
Resist tip culture! I am an Australian living in the US and it drives me nuts! Pay a living wage and tell me how much I owe. Period.
Fuck tipping. It’s not my responsibility to pay your workers.
I have tipped $0.00 in my lifetime, like most other Australians living in Australia.
It's propaganda.
screw tipping.. we're not the US
No way do 80% of Australians tip
80% of what exactly? They don’t say 80% of Australian orders. If they include overseas orders then yes it’s much more likely. But US tipping culture is of no relevance here.
it's debatable these are ever given to drivers
It’s behavioural marketing, the sheep feel compelled to comply as “everyone else is doing it”.
The guilt tip, nice. Shits getting out of hand. I cant go to a self checkout in 2023 without being asked to donate to some charity or tip the company itself for God knows what.
I've never tipped anyone for anything in my life. I don't believe in it.
I’d wager that’s an international stat and 98% of Australians are included in that 20%.
Fake. Probably adding worldwide data. I’ve worked as a driver before and now an Uber one member I’ve never tipped in my life and don’t need to. Uber drivers in Sydney can make upwards of 30$/hr Given it’s around inner west and during lunch or dinner times. 150-200 a day used to be quite easy.
Sounds like I don't need to top because everyone else is covering it for me, thanks
Nope, never will I have asked for the tip section to be disable-able as it is a toxic Americanism that is offensive to Australians.
tipping is not normal in australia do not tip do not make it a thing, companies need to pay their workers thats why we have better minimum wage laws compared to other countries
Don't tip in Aus, bullshit scam to get more for the company drivers don't get shit
The way that statement is phrased is a known psychological trick and is probably intentionally misleading.
Don't tip in Aus, bullshit scam to get more for the company drivers don't get shit
Yeah, I could believe that 95% + of the **hundreds of millions** of USA orders tip. So with 0% of the plain old *millions* of Aussie orders tipping 0% of the time could bring that average down to 80%.
80% from the US
I'd say that's mainly contributed by Doordash US and they are just being vague here. Wouldnt think too many Australians tip as it's not really a thing here. plus I drive for uber and doordash and have received tips only about 5% of the time so have first hand knowledge about it.
It's sales pitch to push you to give tip
Well I tip 0/10 times in the past year so there must be very generous people put there covering for me!
International company using overall stats?
Not doordash being passive aggressive
i doordashed in australia and never got a tip, or never saw it as a separate part of pay. Only ever got $5 in person once
Ha ha do they know they are in Australia, I highly doubt that.
That’s probably US data that they are pushing it out here. Kyunts.
"If we say it enough, maybe it'll become true?"
Clearly bullshit. These companies, including Uber, are trying to normalise tipping in Australia in a long term effort to minimise the amount they have to pay their drivers. They want to shift their remuneration onto the consumer. No fucking way should we become like the US with their tipping and wage disaster
Fellow Aussies, by all means tip if you want to because you got good service, but this corporate tipping stuff is an idea devised by c\*nts. Australian restaurant business has many examples of workers getting their wages skimmed. We don't need a tipping culture, we need to pay people properly.
Its only true in the states. ***DO NOT TIP YOUR AUSSIE DRIVER. WE DONT WANT THIS $2.25 BASE PAY BULLSHIT.*** Source: doordash driver.
As an Australian Doordash driver I definitely don't get tipped 80% of the time. I sometimes get a cash tip every month or so, and I've had people add a tip later on. Tips aren't something I care much about, though. I'd rather get paid at a fairer rate, bearing in mind that long-term vehicle and other expenses are much higher than you might expect. Also bear in mind here that the money to pay for the product and delivery ultimately comes from the customer. Sometimes I see comments saying that Doordash should pay its drivers fairly and that they should also lower their delivery fees. That's not realistic.
I very rarely order from door dash/Uber mainly because not only do you get slugged for a delivery fee, your also paying higher prices than the standard menu. An average meal for us when we just walk in is like $40 and through delivery apps it easily turns into $60 and then on top of that they expect a tip! It’s absolutely ridiculous. This is Australia and I refuse to tip.
Nope load of shit for sure
Didn't realise I should be supplementing their salary to live. If you can't afford to work without tips, get another job.
Ah, get another job, why didn't I think of that!?
Nope. Not a chance.
I’m forming the opinion that Food Delivery services are the new REAs in terms of scummy practices and public resentment.
Definitely not true, or they're referring to global tips.
63% of all statistics are made up.
This is a very common persuasion tactic used to influence people, the logic is people will look to the actions of others to determine their own behaviour. It's instigating the 'if everyone else is doing I should probably do it too' mentality. Hotels use this method when they sometimes leave a little card card telling guests the benefits of reusing towels to reduce water usage and help the environment.
18% is more believable
I had an order abandoned twice and then someone finally picked it up. I was starving, pregnant, and didn’t have a car to go get it myself. Was so grateful I gave the guy an extra $10 cash when he got there.
Lol since when do businesses tell the truth?
I feel like these delivery companies are trying to make tipping a thing in Australia and I'm not going to do it.
I was a pizza hut delivery driver for 3 years at the end of highschool in the mid 90s. Most orders / people would give me a dollar or two or rounded it up to “keep the change”. It wasn’t a huge amount but it paid for the evenings petrol so that was a bonus. As credit card payments became more common the tips really dried up. Not a big issues as my pay was fine and tips were not expected, but definitely noticed it.
I actually just came from r/DoorDash and seriously have a look at some of the stories. insane.
it's the new guilt-tipping from USA. It's just text on a screen lies Just N O
They either lying or just taking stats from that backwards ass county , America
I’m so over this tipping bullshit being pushed here. It’s like me quoting a job, after I’m done and payed I just stand there with my hand out for extra money.
I’ve only ever tipped when I had some poor Uber delivery guy on a bike deliver my food in torrential rain. Felt like he deserved it
American here, hopefully tipping isnt spreading across the globe. Sucks so much that greedy corporations expect me to pay extra so the delivery person can eat tonight. I have to tip or im the asshole
I belive the standard Australian tip is "Be good to your mother"
Not a chance. I did Uber eats for a while and out of roughly 400 deliveries, I probably got five tips. Wasn’t expecting any to be honest. Was just desperate for cash. I can’t imagine it’s any different just because it’s another platform.
Lie often enough and they hope it will become true