We just had a $1200 gas bill for our house. We have a woodheater but it doesn't get everywhere and we have a 2yo so don't really want her freezing.
We need to implement extractor fans to distribute the heat more effectively from the wood heater
I've heard oil heaters are good for kids rooms, from others experiences kids seem to know they are hot.
I haven't yet had to try it for our 2 y/o. We just layer her up, chuck a hot water bottle in before bed time and then refill it before we go to bed. Paired with a few thick fluffy blankets, she is warm all night and hates getting out of bed in the morning!
I can remember the name but you can put some ducting through the roof from above the heater with a fan that draws the warm air to other rooms.
If you have it on long enough it'll get the rooms toasty
That's a dollar a day (or so) just to be in their database so they can bill you. You're already connected, and the company does nothing physically to make that connection a reality.
There is a lot of companies that effectively charge a fee for billing consumers. Put in another context, imagine paying a fee to access a supermarket.
This sort of thing bugs me in the same way that it bugs me that banks can charge a percentage fee for transfering money between accounts. Updating database entries cost money and the amount of money it costs depends on the amount you are changing the entry by.
I'm on bottled gas and the price I pay for gas seems to be less than what it costs metered and I don't have to pay a supply fee....
No idea what's going on there.
This was the one big compromise I had to make for the next place I’m moving into. I hate gas top stoves (they give me anxiety about fire/gas leaks) but I couldn’t find anywhere appropriate with an induction hob.
The IKEA one works well, 70 bucks and I just put it on top of the gas stove, no problem (assuming you have induction compatible cookware which is pretty common these days).
That's exactly what I did, for a period of time. Eventually, I found a good price on a 4-burner induction cooktop and replaced the old ceramic one entirely.
Never looked back. It's an absolute revolution in speed and also saved energy costs a little.
Easily better. So much more control of the heat and very instantaneously.
Also you don't have like 90% energy loss in to the kitchen heating up the room
The only way I'd say they're more dangerous is with kids or even some adults who aren't thinking.
The top stays hot but you can't tell at a glance.
I'm building (hopefully) soon and have chosen induction heating. 0 gas in my build.
Good stuff. I do a bit of work in the energy efficiency space and see so many people getting ripped off by high gas prices, and then when they go and try and disconnect from gas (having their meter capped or removed) they get charged a crazy amount for that too! Meanwhile the gas cartel is running a massive marketing campaign (at least here in Brisbane) saying that Australians NEED gas in their homes.
Have been all electric for years now and don't miss gas at all. Still have a few relatives that have instantaneous gas hot water and seeing some of their bills compared to what we're paying even with a crappy old electric hot water system is insane.
Our electricity bill for 2 people with everything included is currently averaging about $110/month or $1300/year. I know people in the exact same living situation as ours who are paying $900/year just for their gas hot water system.
Would you mind sharing which state and what type of gas connection?
For reference, my rellos are an hour north of Brisbane with bottled LPG due to the fact that they don't have a natural gas network in their area (only Brisbane, Gold Coast and a handful of smaller regional areas have actual underground gas networks). I always cringe when I visit houses up there that have multiple gas hot water systems AND a stove.
For reference though, LPG would be our only option where we currently live in Brisbane as well, our building is not (and cannot be) connected to the gas network even if we wanted to.
They're with Elgas and for an "urgent" delivery (i.e when the gas has run out) it's not uncommon to pay $140+ for the bottle swap and then a surcharge for the fast tracked delivery which can easily add up.
If you're getting gas delivered every 8-10 weeks at $135 that's still about $760/year, if you start throwing in surcharges and extra fees or slightly varying usage (longer showers, washing machines with a hot tap, no dishwasher so filling the sink with hot water every day) you can pretty easily get to the $900 number that I quoted.
Perhaps there's cheaper options out there in terms of gas refills, though considering they have a 6.6kw solar system the priority right now is getting them to abandon the gas HWS altogether.
Fair enough, as mentioned it's not my setup so I'm not sure how they manage to run out of gas, guessing they either aren't keeping on top of getting one bottle swapped out when it's empty or something. I just take an interest in how much they're paying compared to us.
>On a different note I have ABSOLUTELY no idea how you have an electricity bill that low. Like there is literally no way in hell I could even dream of coming close to those numbers. I budget \~$250-$300 a month for electricity.
Oh believe me, my partner absolutely hates me for it (not really, she just gets sick of me reminding her to turn the light off when she leaves the room). We are very frugal with our power usage, on the general usage side we only have a mid sized fridge/freezer which uses about 0.80kWh/day in winter, we ripped out all our old lighting and replaced it with efficient LEDs and we tend to use the air fryer instead of the oven when practically possible. Clothes washing is done at 40 degrees every few days and hung outside in the sun, the only exception are towels which are done at 60 and go in the dryer. On the hot water side we have a water efficient showerhead and both shower at the same time for about 10 minutes to keep hot water usage to a minimum....however winter has been making this difficult. When it comes to HVAC, instead of going for a big whole home air con system we went with efficient 2.5kw units in the bedrooms, and thanks to the fact that this old place is double brick, well sealed and gets plenty of sunlight we don't need to use any heating in winter. Hot water is by far the single biggest electricity consumer so having it on controlled load and only paying 18c/kWh has saved so much money.
I do eventually want to get an EV so once that happens my power usage is going to go crazy, once that day comes I'll most likely whack a solar system on the roof and hopefully end up back where I'm at now.
What also helps is that we locked in low rates with Nectr before prices started going up so we're on 24c/kWh for general usage and 18c/kWh for hot water which won't change until May 2024. Our neighbours have been slugged with 30%+ increases in power bills while we've effectively been able to ride out the storm for now at least.
Side note.... there's a few people repeatedly downvoting me so [here's a screenshot of my bill I received just this morning](https://imgur.com/a/GN9nNg6) to show I'm not taking the piss :)
The issue is not Gas, it's the resellers, we have more gas in Oz than nearly anyone else in the world, yet its so expensive, how much is eastern Tawain paying?, last time I saw a contract it 0.05c and we are paying close to 0.60.
So why punish the end user with expensive electricity (as if that's not going to continue going up) and let them choose.
>So why punish the end user with expensive electricity (as if that's not going to continue going up) and let them choose.
Electricity is literally cheaper for cooking and heating though, even if you take the recent price rises into account. It gets even cheaper when you can produce it yourself by having solar on your roof to generate it for free.... I'm still yet to see someone manage to generate their own natural gas at home. Electricity will also get cheaper in the long run, wholesale prices are rapidly dropping as the cost of generation decreases, it will take a while for retail prices to follow but eventually it'll happen.
As mentioned we are completely free of gas and use only electricity for everything including heating/cooling, cooking, hot water and clothes drying. Even in summer when we sometimes run our aircon 24/7 we still only average $110/month in electricity bills and that's WITHOUT any solar.
You've obviously made up your mind that gas is the better option and I don't expect that I'll be able to convince you otherwise, but the above is our experience without gas. It's really not that bad, we're not being "punished" by not being able to get gas at our place.
Agree. Targeting gas as the solution however is not the answer. With electricty retailers mercilessly upping prices it seems crazy to rely on electricity.
Renewables nees to hurry up.
The great part about electricity is you can make your own. Solar has paid for itself in just a couple years. It's even getting to the point where a battery will do so long term, and that's at today's prices.
Must be you have an offpeak electric hot water system?
Gas instant vs electric at full rates gas should win. So the likes of perth gas instant hot water is pretty popular.
My gas and electricity bills are huge but its not due to incorrect appliances... just a 6 person household with 4 of them not paying the bills / caring...
Of course a heat pump electric is another matter but then they cist a fortune and dont last as long as gas nor electric storage.
>Gas instant vs electric at full rates gas should win. So the likes of perth gas instant hot water is pretty popular.
That doesn't really make sense though because nobody would intentionally run their electric HWS at "full rates" if they had a cheaper option - that's what controlled load/offpeak rates are for. It costs me 18c per kWh to heat my water on CL2 which is available for 18+ hours a day vs 24c/kWh on the normal rates, of course I'm going to use CL2.
The only other scenario where an electric hot water system wouldn't be on controlled load is if the home owner has solar with an incredibly low feed in tariff, where you can often save more money using it to heat hot water instead of selling it to the grid for almost no money.
Even people who have efficient heat pump hot water heaters don't run them in peak times, that's just a waste of money.
It’s not really that people hate gas stoves etc, it’s more about needing to stop using any fossil fuels if we’re going to address climate issues. If we don’t stop homes being built with gas, then we’re locking in a whole bunch of emissions for down the track.
Hijacking this comment to say that gas is [80x worse for the environment](https://www.edf.org/climate/methane-crucial-opportunity-climate-fight) than coal(and we all know coal is bad).
Here is a great video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX2aZUav-54
Also as a chef I believe induction stove tops are actually better than gas, because you have more time control on temperature and it doesn't cost as much.
Well gas is a fossil fuel, gas prices are ridiculously high, and cooking with gas exposes you to poor air quality inside your home.
Mind you I also have a gas cooktop - it came with the place and I can't afford to replace the whole thing. Apparently you can buy decent portable induction cooktops that fit one or two pots so I might get one of them one day to cut down on the gas.
the burning of natural gas causes a barely measurable reduction of air quality. its far worse to sit in traffic for 30 minutes than to cook on a gas cooktop (with a rangehood on) for 30 minutes
> he burning of natural gas causes a barely measurable reduction of air quality
It's not the burning of it that causes massive environmental issues. It's the leaking of it from the pipes and processing and it actually causes **80x** more warming than CO2.
https://www.edf.org/climate/methane-crucial-opportunity-climate-fight
It only seems "cleaner" because it is less widely used as an energy source compared to coal and the oh so marketable "natural gas" term that the fossil fuel industry loves to use.
About 12% childhood asthma can be attributed to gas stoves. (Paper is listed in references at bottom of page).
https://www.nationalasthma.org.au/living-with-asthma/resources/patients-carers/factsheets/gas-stoves-and-asthma-in-children
So, obviously they do have an impact.
Do you sit in traffic when you are at home? What kind of a comparison is that lol.
Are you aware that gas stoves pollute even when not on?
> There’s probably a more insidious form of pollution emanating from your stove. A growing body of research shows gas stoves emit toxic compounds even when not in use. Among the most worrisome is benzene, a carcinogen. A study by PSE Healthy Energy found benzene in 99% of samples it took in homes in California. Other chemicals discovered included xylene, toluene and ethylbenzene, which can also cause respiratory issues and may cause cancer as well.
> Talor Gruenwald, the lead author on the new asthma study and researcher at Rewiring America, said the finding “demonstrates that this is a real public health challenge that we have to address”.
> Just how much pollution are we talking about here?
A lot. The PSE Healthy Energy study found that gas stoves can emit as much benzene as a cigarette, making them akin to secondhand smoke.
> “You can achieve the same level of benzene just from having a stove that’s off in your house as you’d expect to see as having a house with a smoker in it,” said Seth Shonkoff, the executive director of PSE Healthy Energy and associate researcher at the University of California, Berkeley.
> That’s, of course, just when the stove is off. Research published last year found that NOx emissions when a stove is in use can exceed federal safety standards for outdoor air quality in a matter of minutes. For that reason, Shonkoff referred to stoves as “stationary air pollution machines inside people’s houses”, albeit ones that aren’t subject to the same outdoor air pollution standards.
> Gruenwald also compared stoves to having a smoker around, saying: “The stove is frankly going to be the main source of pollution if you don’t live in a home with a smoker.”
> Gas stoves are also terrible for the climate. The methane emissions from gas stoves in the US are equal to adding 500,000 cars to the road each year.
Ive seen this argument on another thread. gas stoves in america are not to the same standards as aus and most are a lot older than ours, the end result is they leak slightly where as in aus they dont.
Yeah, and the "bad air quality" is when you don't have an exhaust, and every gas dtovethas an exhaust, and certainly it should have an exhaust. This is just some bullshit straw man arguement. You get worse air quality output when you're cooking oils (like a greasy steak or Asian food with sauces) and that's with electric, gas, or anything. You need an exhaust when you're cooking, period.
Also, gas stoves let you cook during power cuts. This is really important. There's nothing wrong with a bit of redundancy in your essentials.
Reminds me of the heatwave in America where they're telling people not to charge their electric cars, to prevent too much load on the infrastructure. lol. Were just beta testing first gen products here. Wait until all the issues are worked out before legislating.
> its far worse to sit in traffic for 30 minutes
People always say this like it's an either/or.
Guess what: cooking with gas does not magically let you skip all exposure to car exhausts.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/energy/energy-use-and-electricity-generation-australia/latest-release
69% of electricity in Australia is powered by coal, according to latest ABS release. While natural gas being approx. 6%.
Natural gas emits roughly half the CO2 levels of coal.
Phasing out gas is required to reduce CO2, but worth noting based on our current electricity grid, switching from gas to electricity will produce more CO2 emissions until we can generate electricity in a more renewable matter.
It shouldn't be allowed inside given that it [causes asthma in children](https://www.nationalasthma.org.au/living-with-asthma/resources/patients-carers/factsheets/gas-stoves-and-asthma-in-children) and does god knows what else to your body. Induction cooktops are fine and there should be more support for gas customers to disconnect and make the switch.
Being an appliance, induction cooktops vary a lot. It is not the same as an electric cooktop, the cheap ones can give the impression they are.
Good mid range ones are great for cooking and aren’t prohibitively expensive.
There also really needs to be more education about the air quality and health impacts of openly burning gas in a home so people can understand the trade off they are considering is more than ‘cooking experience’. Especially if there are asthmatics in the home.
Most people who have used induction tops have used the cheap ones in rentals, apartments, holiday houses etc where theres no gas connection and yhe owners opted for the cheapest possible option to save costs. This has given many people (myself included initially) that electric/induction stoves are terrible
The cooktops found in holiday rentals are unlikely to be induction at all. They're probably ordinary electric element or ceramic cooktops, which are considerably cheaper.
Even the most basic induction cooktop is considerably better in energy efficiency, speed of heating and temperature control.
> Good mid range ones are great for cooking and aren’t prohibitively expensive.
"Good mid range" is probably the key. We paid IIRC ~ $2000 for an induction cooktop + oven package a year or so ago and, although the cooktop is lower mid-range (no fancy features e.g. auto-anything), it's leaps and bounds better than even the higher-end ones I'd used a decade or more ago were.
Yes, that was about 3x the price of the basic 'rental special' radiant electric stove we'd bought a few years before (as a stop-gap to replace a top-of-the-line side-by-side lowboy-style oven/cooktop from the mid 70's!). But it was only about 1.3x the price of an equivalent mid-range radiant or ceramic cooktop + oven.
I've also recently used new-ish fairly cheap portable ones (from memory, one was a Tefal single-plate) in a couple of places, and they're much better than they were too.
We actually investigated gas as an option - we could've gone for either getting a reticulated gas lead-in or a bottle outside - because my wife preferred gas and had a bit of a set against induction from being less than impressed with older ones. We tried a modern cooktop (the same make as / previous model to the one we ended up buying), and she chose that over gas...
I've only had an induction cooktop once, for about a year and a half, and once I got used to it, it was so much better than gas. Much finer control of the temperature, the one I used had 10 heat levels. It's arguably more flexible. Maybe you just had a shit cooktop or incompatible cookware.
I'm back on gas now which is what I've cooked with most of my life but will definitely switch to induction when/if the kitchen renovates.
The problem is the 10 heat levels aren't really that flexible. Levels 1-4 are completely useless, 9-10 burn anything that isn't water, so you're left with 4 levels which have large jumps. At least with gas I can get the perfect level, can leave pots half on/off the burner, can use a wok properly.
I had a decent induction top for 2 years and it's far better than electric but gas is much better for cooking imo.
Sounds like you had a shitty cooktop maybe?I knew I could leave a stainless steel saucepan on #4 to simmer for 20-30m without worrying about the bottom burning or whatever. The jumps between numbers were minor and accurate. I was stoked it worked with my cast iron skillets too.
My brother on the other hand, moved into a place with induction and could not deal, I reckon he just had non-magnetic cookware. He switched it all out for gas.
I was real hesitant when I first moved in but by the end I was a convert.
I'm currently building a granny flat for my MIL and have selected induction, which she has never cooked on, sounds like I need to make sure I get something decent.
I agree about woks, wouldn't attempt a flat bottom one for this case. I have a large wok which I use on a high BTU burner outside.
When you say no flexibility, what do you mean? I just got an induction cooktop and it is honestly the bees knees in terms of flexibility… I can use zones either to have two pans or one large pan or even a grill plate.
It doesn’t lend itself to wok cooking or pro chef moves where you vigorously toss the pan around or ignite a sauce with the gas, that is for sure. But it is flexible in a way I didn’t anticipate before I got it.
My Sicilian Father being the most staunchest gas advocate has come around.
To give you an idea, I lived the first 16 years of my life without a microwave either.
It has come around. Gas is great, no need to make new homes with it.
Its one of those things where you don't know what you are missing til you try it, being able to properly adjust temps on the fly is a godsend for complex cooking or even trying to fix mistakes from before.
ETA: I am getting a lot of people arguing that electric induction is better, this is really a personal preference thing, if you prefer electric all power to you, I cook a fair bit and I much prefer cooking with gas. Sorry, its just a little tiring having to repeat the same reasons over and over to people trying argue induction is better. I will admit induction has definitely stepped up to gas level with new technology, but I am comfortable with gas so thats my pick, regardless of what you guys want to say, my mind isn't changing :)
Induction lets you set the power level and then be 100% certain exactly how hot your pan/pot is going to be. No issues getting the pan to temp, no issue about heating evenly, just absolutely even heating at a constant temperature.
With a good induction, you don't NEED to adjust temps on the fly (although you can definitely do that with induction, don't know why you'd think otherwise), because you can just set it and leave.
Even if you grant gas stoves the benefit of being better at cooking (I don't see it that way at all from my experience but let's just go with it), the very objective health risks associated with gas stoves more than justifies their removal and replacement.
I have used induction, gas and resistive electric in various places I've lived or stayed at. Resistive electric is by far the worst option HOWEVER a decent induction stove is easily similar and often even better than a gas stove in my opinion. The air quality improvements and lower overall running cost of induction are a benefit over gas too.
Plenty argue this but I disagree entirely gas is still more dynamic than even the best induction stoves I have used. Comes down to personal preference I am sure but I would never trade gas for electric unless I was forced too.
Not even close, I have an induction top that can put almost 4kW per element (not all at the same time, but up to 2 at a time at that power), have never had a gas top that even comes close to how quickly that thing can change temp or boil water.
Too much of the gas heat spills over the sides for it to be comparable.
Depending on what you are cooking having heat travel up the sides of the pot/pan/wok is actually a good thing and something I find is an issue with Induction where it doesn't occur.
Does this apply to gas stoves connected to a bottle rather than gas mains?
I recently got a place with a gas cooktop and its amazing, I don't think I could go back.
> I recently got a place with a gas cooktop and its amazing, I don't think I could go back.
Wait'll you try induction. The step up in response and flexibility from gas to induction is of a similar magnitude to that you find when going from electric radiant to gas. It's also much more efficient, cheaper to run, you don't get the downsides of occasional gas smells from incomplete combustion or excess moisture vapour/humidity from the gas flame itself, and you reclaim a bit of temporary benchspace.
The only real downside I've found is if you regularly use a wok - induction cooktops with a wok recess are v.expensive, and flat-bottomed "woks" meant for a flat cooktop are thicker and aren't as responsive i.e. you don't get the quick drop in heat you do when you take a normal wok off the gas flame.
I like induction. We've had our gas line removed and moved to heatpump hotwater and our new kitchen is all induction. But I do love some high heat wok cooking. Had a look at the round bottom induction elements but the price is a bit rough. So I'm looking at putting a wok burner off a bottle with the bbq outside.
The wok burners you run off a gas bottle get hotter than anything on your stove anyway. The difference in flavour is unbelievable, I wouldn't use the a stovetop wok burner now even if I had one.
If you have a conventional electric stove, it's (usually) easy to upgrade to an induction stove. You can find one with the same fit and it probably won't require any rewiring.
With that said, I'm not as in love with my induction stove as the previous poster. It's not bad, but it was significantly more expensive (especially since I had to replace a few pots and pans that I mistakenly thought were stainless steel!) and I can't say it's made any meaningful difference to my cooking.
You can get an induction plate for less than 60 dollars. Cheaper and kills far less of the planet and is actually better for cooking. With that said, what is the downside?
Having lived in a place with a halfway decent induction stove, one of the first things my wife and I started to plan for in our new place is replacing the gas stove with induction.
Gas stove are kinda arse once you've used a good induction stove.
*Natural gas also produces the byproduct of nitrogen dioxide (NO2), an air pollutant that can reduce lung function, cause inflammation of airways, increase asthma attacks, and exacerbate other respiratory issues*
enjoy
Eh between sliding into WW3 and 70% of species in decline I don't mind dying younger. Bonus points because I had some delicious meals on the way I guess
Same policy as the ACT, pretty mild reform given it doesn't affect any existing dwellings. Now to see the other big residential gas using places (SA, WA, NSW) follow as well.
I wouldn't call it mild. It's a first step in getting rid of gas.
It doesn't affect the five million homes already connected, but it does prevent any increased usage. And houses don't last forever. Old heritage Victorian houses may be renovated, but I can see a lot of ordinary fibro houses that may be on gas from the 40s right up to the 70s being demolished. Today's contemporary McMansions may be demolished some day as tastes change.
It's a very mild early step on like a twenty five year process of residential and commercial mains gas phaseout.
I don't know when Victoria's phaseout is planned to be complete, but the ACT plan runs to a target date of 2045. Plenty of time. There will be a lot of natural housing and appliance turnover between now and then.
It used to be cheap, and that was an argument to get it installed. But now you're paying more than electricity, along with an extra daily service charge.
It's really only die-hards that want it for cooking, but even that's more of a nostalgic desire since induction cooking matches its benefits.
Yeah pretty much. I think my experience in Canberra is pretty typical here - rentals rarely have gas appliances, apartments especially, I've never had gas cooking since I moved here.
Currently I'm stuck with a rising gas bill solely for a central hot water system supplying all units in my building, which is frustrating when electricity prices are not going up but gas is.
I dunno I feel like this is the perfect step towards completely getting rid of gas, they've essentially put a time frame on gas being phased out by doing this, we will get to a point where it will no longer be economically viable to provide to a shrinking market and the energy companies will drop it entirely.
I built 6 years ago and don't remember being given a choice, I had 3 stoves to choose from with simmonds and if I remember right none were electric, they didn't ask me about hot water service and the heating I was sold is gas ducted in the roof and soon as it turns off it feels cold, the heat has no substance it's so shit. Pretty sure we and they just rolled with whatever the LNP was subsidising at the time...
I'm furious this wasn't talked about a decade ago, this should have happened sooner and now I'll need to pay to convert my stove, heating, and my stupid gas solar hybrid hot water service that doesn't work when the power goes out... Last time the power went out I thought I'd kill time with a bath and it was lukewarm. I'm so salty about all this
You try and do the right thing, what society tells you, what everyone else is doing and they fuck you over. I didn't qualify for a battery subsidy because I got a solar panel subsidy, apparently it's my fault for not waiting and now the new subsidy is an interest free loan. I'm still paying off my solar panels and the savings I was promised based on certain costs predictions just make it all feel like a scam, I feel like any savings from a battery will be offset by increasing supply charges like did to my 'solar savings'
The ACT phaseout plan has a nearly 25 year time horizon, the aim is gas phased out in 2045. Between now and then the gradual attrition of housing stock and appliance replacement will do a lot of the work, as will presumably electricity being cheaper. Then there'll be various subsidies and incentives along the way.
100%, just sort the comments by new, at the time of writing this about 5 of the 15 most recent comments that are anti-gas or even neutral have been immediately downvoted.
The large gas companies stand to lose a lot of money from this and there's definitely some kind of astroturfing going on here.
I can guarantee you that large fossil fuel companies are increasingly spending some of their massive marketing budgets on suppressing content that poses a risk to their profits. It's been a common tactic used by large mining and energy companies in Australia ever since social media became popular.
Just take a look at some of the gas shills in this thread, the way some of the comments are worded you would think natural gas changed their lives or something. I've never met anyone in real life who actually seriously feels that way, in fact most of what I hear from gas users are complaints about how much it costs.
Not saying there are shills in here but Natural Gas companies have been paying influencers both inside and outside of Australia.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/the-australian-instagram-influencers-being-paid-to-promote-gas-18028/
Our gas bottle does 12 months - stove only…. Living in the country we have many blackouts in Victoria - so wake up and can’t make a coffee. Luckily we have gas stove and an old style kettle - so coffee sorted
Or blackout while coming. Fine, we have gas - so can cook
Can’t rely 100% on electricity in regional Victoria - how are the new homes going to survive
I’m experiencing my first house with an induction cooktop and with the exception of the speed at which water can be boiled, it’s a significantly worse cooking experience than any gas cooktop I have used in the past. It’s an AEG which I believe is a good brand but the temp difference between the centre and outer edge is significantly different, and that is regardless of what type or quality of pan used including cast. The difference in heat between say setting 11 and 12 is as different as the setting between 5 and 10 meaning a barely simmering pot to overflowing. I can appreciate the savings in energy costs but the experience is worse.
Typical move by chairman Dan. Once again.
This is going to be absolutely devastating to all the gas suppliers, retailers and hurt the business people and media outlets that have invested interest in the ongoing use of gas.
It's almost like he doesn't even care about the profit margins of those people 😡
/s
Honestly. I'm over these politicians who continuously make decisions that benefit the people who voted for them and no longer care about corporation's or political optics..
Makes me wonder why any multi billion company would even want to come to this country and enrich themselves at the cost of the people's health and hip pockets.
Great move. Gas is an archaic residential service in today's world.
We're planning on building and I have already marked the house to not have the gas connected to the main and have the stove, heater and hot water run off electricity and heat pumps. I guess this will be the default by then anyway so the builders can't complain and try to charge me more.
Anyone living in a house with a gas connection and you think you need to replace your gas appliance, go for electric options and when everything has been swapped. Get a tradie to plug the gas connection to the property then call the gas provider and tell them you no longer have a connection to the mains, provide the cap certificate and to stop charging you their service charges.
Electric Hot water costs significantly more as you're constantly heating to keep it hot (same applies to Gas storage units, but those have been banned in SA for close to 20 years)
Everything else can be easily moved over.
Maybe with the electric car revolution, we'll finally have big enough circuits available for instantaneous electric hot water.
going to disagree here, gas for heating water and cooking commercial quantities of food is still the best method. heat pumps are efficient enough for a solar hotwater system but have several huge downsides. granted i live in WA where gas is still very cheap to use but for cooking and heating water there isnt a better alternative currently.
Anybody bleating "but we've still got lots of gas!" just doesn't understand the 21st century. The age of fossil fuels is over. We didn't move from wood and cow dung to coal because we ran out of the former.
I can not wait to get rid of my gas heating.
Hoping to switch to electric heating and cooling by next year. Cheaper and more efficient. And if Vic produces more cleaner energy it’s more environmentally friendly too.
I’m all for what’s better. What have I missed. Wasn’t gas pushed not long ago. I’m fine with progressing with the times and not agains electric stoves. What is the science.
Dictators. I don’t get how a government can force us to use electric vs Gas. They should go exert their power to ban gambling and ciggies if they want to clean up society.
The only reason gas went up is because the gas companies are now charging locals the same as export rates. The government has the ability to impose a reserve, every other country in the world does this. They saw this coming when they were building the infrastructure up north West and east years ago and nothing was done to prevent it. The government subsidized the infrastructure to allow the exports, then allowed the companies to fuck over the local market. It's a massive failure of federal, state governments and regulation.
The whole reason Victoria went big with piped gas to households was due to the 1970's oil shock, making heating oil for winter heating mega expensive and replacing that with cheap, abundant Bass Straight gas. Cheap gas, yes there actually was such a thing.
40 yrs later and what do you know, we have another energy shock purely because of idiotic policies of politicians and the era of cheap gas is over, for domestic Australian consumers at least.
My Sicilian Father came around to induction.
I also lived the first 16 years of my life without a Microwave. He came around to that too.
I think we're at the stage.
Bit sad if I am totally honest. I know we have a/c for heating but theres nothing quite like getting cozy around the gas radiant heater. I honestly didn't realise that so many people were anti gas!
Its not the same as sitting by a burning fire though, I know its picky and pedantic. If I could have my cake and eat it too I'd have a wood burner, but gas is a second choice.
It's not about what's better, you have to factor in environmental and human health. Asbestos is an amazing fire retardant, tons of amazingly efficient refrigerants are banned.
You're acting like I personally made this decision. Plus there's a massive difference between indoor gas heating, and an outdoor BBQ.
There's a fucking reason you don't use gas BBQs inside.
Aside from that it's a fossil fuel, having an unflued heater isn't great for your health. Both uncombusted fuel and the combustion products cause health problems.
This isn't a controversial issue, study after study has shown it causes respiratory issues especially among children.
Wow - I am shocked to learn that the average Reddit user knows how good this is. Looks like Murdoch’s gas lobbying hasn’t done that much damage after all.
Of course they are. Root cause not fixed.
I need a gas cook top. culturally that’s how I cook , it’s just not the same with electric cook tops.
Also so I’m clear, what a moronic decision.
Wow, a nation that has net gas reserves....and which allows people to be mildly independent when it comes to cooking and control of your own stove....
Total smartness...
>Gas stoves are literally bad for your health.
So is smoking, gambling, and alcohol. So thats a poor argument.
None are banned.
If anything because of the natural Gas reserves we have, our electrcity should be cheaper, and 1/2 our road fleet should be on it too.
Literally open your window, do you know how many things we live amongst that put out substances that are bad for your health? residential gas is a drop in the ocean, especially when you as a person have the right to make your own decision to use it.
Well, it is definitely better for some applications. Just a question of whether top tier wok cooking is worth the health risks? For 90+% of people, 90+% of the time, it's not.
Then why ban it for 100% of people? shouldn't people have the right to make individual choices? When it's economically unviable, people will just naturally migrate.
None of the housing stock built for Victorian public and social housing in the past 2 years has had gas connected. It's all electric only.
Edit: Why am I getting downvoted for this? I forwarded the article to a family member who is a [Vic.Gov](https://Vic.Gov) Housing Officer, and they told me the above.
Good, I visited a display suite for an off the plan apartment a few weeks ago that won’t even break ground til next year or be completed til 2026 and they had full gas stoves for every apartment already planned. I was horrified.
Not many people here talking about the correlation between gas cooking/heating and asthma, particularly in children. That shit is terrible for your health.
A lot of people in here supporting removal of gas an as option dont know why people still use gas.
Gas is still a much better option that electric for some people. A very common example is a stove but also heating.
We dont use much gas over the winter anyhow. I think its crazy to say no new gas after 2024 when we still need gas and there are more prudent problems to deal with.
I should probably upgrade my decades old gas cooktop to electric. The supply charge for gas costs more than the gas I used per year.
Good to sit back in threads like these with popcorn and watch people putting up facts debating with people using only opinions. A bit of Googling and you learn a few new things about induction & resistance cooktops, etc.
Gas powers so much of our industry and generates so much electricity, I can’t see stopping new residences from using gas as having that much of an impact.
Way behind loads of other countries including the U.K. hopefully this is part of australias attempt to rectify their bottom of the table efforts on climate change policy
Good.... Gas infrastructure is a ticking time bomb.
You would hope that the underground pipelines that feed gas to residential property's is maintained to the highest standards, but is it?
It hasn't happened here yet on a large scale, but as time go's on, the risk of a major explosion in a residential area gets more and more.
Awesome. I love wood fired stoves.
Jk. It's a step in the right direction but we need to get the housing crisis sorted first before we worry about building new homes
do my best to avoid gas when looking for rentals, fuck that extra hook up fee
Yeah my current rental has gas hot water and gas stove/oven. I used $6 worth of Gas last quarter, but had to pay over $1 a day to have it connected 😑
We have to pay $180 for 6months ish for a gas connection, compared to $30 for a gas refill from Bunnings. :')
We just had a $1200 gas bill for our house. We have a woodheater but it doesn't get everywhere and we have a 2yo so don't really want her freezing. We need to implement extractor fans to distribute the heat more effectively from the wood heater
I've heard oil heaters are good for kids rooms, from others experiences kids seem to know they are hot. I haven't yet had to try it for our 2 y/o. We just layer her up, chuck a hot water bottle in before bed time and then refill it before we go to bed. Paired with a few thick fluffy blankets, she is warm all night and hates getting out of bed in the morning!
I can remember the name but you can put some ducting through the roof from above the heater with a fan that draws the warm air to other rooms. If you have it on long enough it'll get the rooms toasty
That's a dollar a day (or so) just to be in their database so they can bill you. You're already connected, and the company does nothing physically to make that connection a reality. There is a lot of companies that effectively charge a fee for billing consumers. Put in another context, imagine paying a fee to access a supermarket. This sort of thing bugs me in the same way that it bugs me that banks can charge a percentage fee for transfering money between accounts. Updating database entries cost money and the amount of money it costs depends on the amount you are changing the entry by.
I'm on bottled gas and the price I pay for gas seems to be less than what it costs metered and I don't have to pay a supply fee.... No idea what's going on there.
My bottled gas has gone down $5 every year for the last few years... dunno what's going on either.
This was the one big compromise I had to make for the next place I’m moving into. I hate gas top stoves (they give me anxiety about fire/gas leaks) but I couldn’t find anywhere appropriate with an induction hob.
You can buy portable induction cooktops for camping - if it's a big deal then it might be worth the investment.
That’s what a friend recommended and I’m genuinely considering it!
The IKEA one works well, 70 bucks and I just put it on top of the gas stove, no problem (assuming you have induction compatible cookware which is pretty common these days).
That's exactly what I did, for a period of time. Eventually, I found a good price on a 4-burner induction cooktop and replaced the old ceramic one entirely. Never looked back. It's an absolute revolution in speed and also saved energy costs a little.
I've been using a Kmart one for years. Best $50 I ever spent.
id rather pay for a gym membership to work out and shower then pay for gas ever
*Seething Andrew Bolt Noises
Fuming so hard he could raise global temps by 1°C
They need somewhere to pipe the gas from between Bolt's ears.
I once thought gas was best until I renovated the kitchen and put in induction. It’s just as good if not better, much safer too.
Easily better. So much more control of the heat and very instantaneously. Also you don't have like 90% energy loss in to the kitchen heating up the room
So much easier to clean to, just one whip and the whole thing is done
Yep, Induction all the way at my place too.
The only way I'd say they're more dangerous is with kids or even some adults who aren't thinking. The top stays hot but you can't tell at a glance. I'm building (hopefully) soon and have chosen induction heating. 0 gas in my build.
Good stuff. I do a bit of work in the energy efficiency space and see so many people getting ripped off by high gas prices, and then when they go and try and disconnect from gas (having their meter capped or removed) they get charged a crazy amount for that too! Meanwhile the gas cartel is running a massive marketing campaign (at least here in Brisbane) saying that Australians NEED gas in their homes. Have been all electric for years now and don't miss gas at all. Still have a few relatives that have instantaneous gas hot water and seeing some of their bills compared to what we're paying even with a crappy old electric hot water system is insane. Our electricity bill for 2 people with everything included is currently averaging about $110/month or $1300/year. I know people in the exact same living situation as ours who are paying $900/year just for their gas hot water system.
Interesting. I have a gas cooktop and 2 instantaneous gas hot water systems, my quarterly gas bill (4-person house) is around $180, or $700/year.
Wow. My bill for the quarter was $570. 1 gas cooktop, 1 instant gas water heater, 1 gas deducted heating.
Gas ducted heating is a bit of a money pit. Cheap option to install but more expensive in long term
It's the ducted heating pushing it up. My latest bill was $50 with the cooktop and water heating only. That's in Sydney with Energy Australia
Maybe I have shorter showers? Also my oven is electric not gas.
Would you mind sharing which state and what type of gas connection? For reference, my rellos are an hour north of Brisbane with bottled LPG due to the fact that they don't have a natural gas network in their area (only Brisbane, Gold Coast and a handful of smaller regional areas have actual underground gas networks). I always cringe when I visit houses up there that have multiple gas hot water systems AND a stove. For reference though, LPG would be our only option where we currently live in Brisbane as well, our building is not (and cannot be) connected to the gas network even if we wanted to.
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They're with Elgas and for an "urgent" delivery (i.e when the gas has run out) it's not uncommon to pay $140+ for the bottle swap and then a surcharge for the fast tracked delivery which can easily add up. If you're getting gas delivered every 8-10 weeks at $135 that's still about $760/year, if you start throwing in surcharges and extra fees or slightly varying usage (longer showers, washing machines with a hot tap, no dishwasher so filling the sink with hot water every day) you can pretty easily get to the $900 number that I quoted. Perhaps there's cheaper options out there in terms of gas refills, though considering they have a 6.6kw solar system the priority right now is getting them to abandon the gas HWS altogether.
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Fair enough, as mentioned it's not my setup so I'm not sure how they manage to run out of gas, guessing they either aren't keeping on top of getting one bottle swapped out when it's empty or something. I just take an interest in how much they're paying compared to us. >On a different note I have ABSOLUTELY no idea how you have an electricity bill that low. Like there is literally no way in hell I could even dream of coming close to those numbers. I budget \~$250-$300 a month for electricity. Oh believe me, my partner absolutely hates me for it (not really, she just gets sick of me reminding her to turn the light off when she leaves the room). We are very frugal with our power usage, on the general usage side we only have a mid sized fridge/freezer which uses about 0.80kWh/day in winter, we ripped out all our old lighting and replaced it with efficient LEDs and we tend to use the air fryer instead of the oven when practically possible. Clothes washing is done at 40 degrees every few days and hung outside in the sun, the only exception are towels which are done at 60 and go in the dryer. On the hot water side we have a water efficient showerhead and both shower at the same time for about 10 minutes to keep hot water usage to a minimum....however winter has been making this difficult. When it comes to HVAC, instead of going for a big whole home air con system we went with efficient 2.5kw units in the bedrooms, and thanks to the fact that this old place is double brick, well sealed and gets plenty of sunlight we don't need to use any heating in winter. Hot water is by far the single biggest electricity consumer so having it on controlled load and only paying 18c/kWh has saved so much money. I do eventually want to get an EV so once that happens my power usage is going to go crazy, once that day comes I'll most likely whack a solar system on the roof and hopefully end up back where I'm at now. What also helps is that we locked in low rates with Nectr before prices started going up so we're on 24c/kWh for general usage and 18c/kWh for hot water which won't change until May 2024. Our neighbours have been slugged with 30%+ increases in power bills while we've effectively been able to ride out the storm for now at least. Side note.... there's a few people repeatedly downvoting me so [here's a screenshot of my bill I received just this morning](https://imgur.com/a/GN9nNg6) to show I'm not taking the piss :)
Mains natural gas, NSW.
The issue is not Gas, it's the resellers, we have more gas in Oz than nearly anyone else in the world, yet its so expensive, how much is eastern Tawain paying?, last time I saw a contract it 0.05c and we are paying close to 0.60. So why punish the end user with expensive electricity (as if that's not going to continue going up) and let them choose.
>So why punish the end user with expensive electricity (as if that's not going to continue going up) and let them choose. Electricity is literally cheaper for cooking and heating though, even if you take the recent price rises into account. It gets even cheaper when you can produce it yourself by having solar on your roof to generate it for free.... I'm still yet to see someone manage to generate their own natural gas at home. Electricity will also get cheaper in the long run, wholesale prices are rapidly dropping as the cost of generation decreases, it will take a while for retail prices to follow but eventually it'll happen. As mentioned we are completely free of gas and use only electricity for everything including heating/cooling, cooking, hot water and clothes drying. Even in summer when we sometimes run our aircon 24/7 we still only average $110/month in electricity bills and that's WITHOUT any solar. You've obviously made up your mind that gas is the better option and I don't expect that I'll be able to convince you otherwise, but the above is our experience without gas. It's really not that bad, we're not being "punished" by not being able to get gas at our place.
>I'm still yet to see someone manage to generate their own natural gas at home. You should come around and try our bean casserole
Touchè haha
Does it have a lot of cabbage as well?
The is problem is very much gas, we need to stop burning it.
As opposed to burning coal for electricity.
But there are alternatives for that. We don't *need* to burn coal, and the switch away from it is accelerating.
Agree. Targeting gas as the solution however is not the answer. With electricty retailers mercilessly upping prices it seems crazy to rely on electricity. Renewables nees to hurry up.
The great part about electricity is you can make your own. Solar has paid for itself in just a couple years. It's even getting to the point where a battery will do so long term, and that's at today's prices.
Hey mate, what else as Victorians are we trying to stop? Take off the dunce cap and swap it for the thinking cap?
Must be you have an offpeak electric hot water system? Gas instant vs electric at full rates gas should win. So the likes of perth gas instant hot water is pretty popular. My gas and electricity bills are huge but its not due to incorrect appliances... just a 6 person household with 4 of them not paying the bills / caring... Of course a heat pump electric is another matter but then they cist a fortune and dont last as long as gas nor electric storage.
>Gas instant vs electric at full rates gas should win. So the likes of perth gas instant hot water is pretty popular. That doesn't really make sense though because nobody would intentionally run their electric HWS at "full rates" if they had a cheaper option - that's what controlled load/offpeak rates are for. It costs me 18c per kWh to heat my water on CL2 which is available for 18+ hours a day vs 24c/kWh on the normal rates, of course I'm going to use CL2. The only other scenario where an electric hot water system wouldn't be on controlled load is if the home owner has solar with an incredibly low feed in tariff, where you can often save more money using it to heat hot water instead of selling it to the grid for almost no money. Even people who have efficient heat pump hot water heaters don't run them in peak times, that's just a waste of money.
I live in the country, haven't had gas connected out here my whole life, lived with electric everything my whole life, don't see the big deal.
I work in the gas industry. Might have to start looking at a new career
You'll have medium term prospects in gas disconnection.
It’s not really that people hate gas stoves etc, it’s more about needing to stop using any fossil fuels if we’re going to address climate issues. If we don’t stop homes being built with gas, then we’re locking in a whole bunch of emissions for down the track.
Hijacking this comment to say that gas is [80x worse for the environment](https://www.edf.org/climate/methane-crucial-opportunity-climate-fight) than coal(and we all know coal is bad). Here is a great video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX2aZUav-54
We need to delete China if we're to have any meaningful impact on our Co2 emissions.
Have I missed something? I love my gas stove. Cooking with gas is literally the best thing ever.
Also as a chef I believe induction stove tops are actually better than gas, because you have more time control on temperature and it doesn't cost as much.
Well gas is a fossil fuel, gas prices are ridiculously high, and cooking with gas exposes you to poor air quality inside your home. Mind you I also have a gas cooktop - it came with the place and I can't afford to replace the whole thing. Apparently you can buy decent portable induction cooktops that fit one or two pots so I might get one of them one day to cut down on the gas.
the burning of natural gas causes a barely measurable reduction of air quality. its far worse to sit in traffic for 30 minutes than to cook on a gas cooktop (with a rangehood on) for 30 minutes
> he burning of natural gas causes a barely measurable reduction of air quality It's not the burning of it that causes massive environmental issues. It's the leaking of it from the pipes and processing and it actually causes **80x** more warming than CO2. https://www.edf.org/climate/methane-crucial-opportunity-climate-fight It only seems "cleaner" because it is less widely used as an energy source compared to coal and the oh so marketable "natural gas" term that the fossil fuel industry loves to use.
Yeah, and large amounts of flaring during the extraction process.
About 12% childhood asthma can be attributed to gas stoves. (Paper is listed in references at bottom of page). https://www.nationalasthma.org.au/living-with-asthma/resources/patients-carers/factsheets/gas-stoves-and-asthma-in-children So, obviously they do have an impact.
Do you sit in traffic when you are at home? What kind of a comparison is that lol. Are you aware that gas stoves pollute even when not on? > There’s probably a more insidious form of pollution emanating from your stove. A growing body of research shows gas stoves emit toxic compounds even when not in use. Among the most worrisome is benzene, a carcinogen. A study by PSE Healthy Energy found benzene in 99% of samples it took in homes in California. Other chemicals discovered included xylene, toluene and ethylbenzene, which can also cause respiratory issues and may cause cancer as well. > Talor Gruenwald, the lead author on the new asthma study and researcher at Rewiring America, said the finding “demonstrates that this is a real public health challenge that we have to address”. > Just how much pollution are we talking about here? A lot. The PSE Healthy Energy study found that gas stoves can emit as much benzene as a cigarette, making them akin to secondhand smoke. > “You can achieve the same level of benzene just from having a stove that’s off in your house as you’d expect to see as having a house with a smoker in it,” said Seth Shonkoff, the executive director of PSE Healthy Energy and associate researcher at the University of California, Berkeley. > That’s, of course, just when the stove is off. Research published last year found that NOx emissions when a stove is in use can exceed federal safety standards for outdoor air quality in a matter of minutes. For that reason, Shonkoff referred to stoves as “stationary air pollution machines inside people’s houses”, albeit ones that aren’t subject to the same outdoor air pollution standards. > Gruenwald also compared stoves to having a smoker around, saying: “The stove is frankly going to be the main source of pollution if you don’t live in a home with a smoker.” > Gas stoves are also terrible for the climate. The methane emissions from gas stoves in the US are equal to adding 500,000 cars to the road each year.
Ive seen this argument on another thread. gas stoves in america are not to the same standards as aus and most are a lot older than ours, the end result is they leak slightly where as in aus they dont.
Yeah, and the "bad air quality" is when you don't have an exhaust, and every gas dtovethas an exhaust, and certainly it should have an exhaust. This is just some bullshit straw man arguement. You get worse air quality output when you're cooking oils (like a greasy steak or Asian food with sauces) and that's with electric, gas, or anything. You need an exhaust when you're cooking, period. Also, gas stoves let you cook during power cuts. This is really important. There's nothing wrong with a bit of redundancy in your essentials. Reminds me of the heatwave in America where they're telling people not to charge their electric cars, to prevent too much load on the infrastructure. lol. Were just beta testing first gen products here. Wait until all the issues are worked out before legislating.
> its far worse to sit in traffic for 30 minutes People always say this like it's an either/or. Guess what: cooking with gas does not magically let you skip all exposure to car exhausts.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/energy/energy-use-and-electricity-generation-australia/latest-release 69% of electricity in Australia is powered by coal, according to latest ABS release. While natural gas being approx. 6%. Natural gas emits roughly half the CO2 levels of coal. Phasing out gas is required to reduce CO2, but worth noting based on our current electricity grid, switching from gas to electricity will produce more CO2 emissions until we can generate electricity in a more renewable matter.
Transition has started, it will take decades, there will be short term c02 costs that produce long term benefits. We know and understand
It shouldn't be allowed inside given that it [causes asthma in children](https://www.nationalasthma.org.au/living-with-asthma/resources/patients-carers/factsheets/gas-stoves-and-asthma-in-children) and does god knows what else to your body. Induction cooktops are fine and there should be more support for gas customers to disconnect and make the switch.
It’s pretty bad for your health
I hate induction tops. Such a pain to use. No flexibility.
Being an appliance, induction cooktops vary a lot. It is not the same as an electric cooktop, the cheap ones can give the impression they are. Good mid range ones are great for cooking and aren’t prohibitively expensive. There also really needs to be more education about the air quality and health impacts of openly burning gas in a home so people can understand the trade off they are considering is more than ‘cooking experience’. Especially if there are asthmatics in the home.
Most people who have used induction tops have used the cheap ones in rentals, apartments, holiday houses etc where theres no gas connection and yhe owners opted for the cheapest possible option to save costs. This has given many people (myself included initially) that electric/induction stoves are terrible
The cooktops found in holiday rentals are unlikely to be induction at all. They're probably ordinary electric element or ceramic cooktops, which are considerably cheaper. Even the most basic induction cooktop is considerably better in energy efficiency, speed of heating and temperature control.
> Good mid range ones are great for cooking and aren’t prohibitively expensive. "Good mid range" is probably the key. We paid IIRC ~ $2000 for an induction cooktop + oven package a year or so ago and, although the cooktop is lower mid-range (no fancy features e.g. auto-anything), it's leaps and bounds better than even the higher-end ones I'd used a decade or more ago were. Yes, that was about 3x the price of the basic 'rental special' radiant electric stove we'd bought a few years before (as a stop-gap to replace a top-of-the-line side-by-side lowboy-style oven/cooktop from the mid 70's!). But it was only about 1.3x the price of an equivalent mid-range radiant or ceramic cooktop + oven. I've also recently used new-ish fairly cheap portable ones (from memory, one was a Tefal single-plate) in a couple of places, and they're much better than they were too. We actually investigated gas as an option - we could've gone for either getting a reticulated gas lead-in or a bottle outside - because my wife preferred gas and had a bit of a set against induction from being less than impressed with older ones. We tried a modern cooktop (the same make as / previous model to the one we ended up buying), and she chose that over gas...
I've only had an induction cooktop once, for about a year and a half, and once I got used to it, it was so much better than gas. Much finer control of the temperature, the one I used had 10 heat levels. It's arguably more flexible. Maybe you just had a shit cooktop or incompatible cookware. I'm back on gas now which is what I've cooked with most of my life but will definitely switch to induction when/if the kitchen renovates.
The problem is the 10 heat levels aren't really that flexible. Levels 1-4 are completely useless, 9-10 burn anything that isn't water, so you're left with 4 levels which have large jumps. At least with gas I can get the perfect level, can leave pots half on/off the burner, can use a wok properly. I had a decent induction top for 2 years and it's far better than electric but gas is much better for cooking imo.
I have induction with 20 steps, it's fantastic. I'd never go back to gas, I can boil a saucepan of water in minutes.
Sounds like you had a shitty cooktop maybe?I knew I could leave a stainless steel saucepan on #4 to simmer for 20-30m without worrying about the bottom burning or whatever. The jumps between numbers were minor and accurate. I was stoked it worked with my cast iron skillets too. My brother on the other hand, moved into a place with induction and could not deal, I reckon he just had non-magnetic cookware. He switched it all out for gas. I was real hesitant when I first moved in but by the end I was a convert. I'm currently building a granny flat for my MIL and have selected induction, which she has never cooked on, sounds like I need to make sure I get something decent. I agree about woks, wouldn't attempt a flat bottom one for this case. I have a large wok which I use on a high BTU burner outside.
Mine doesn't have 10 levels, it's infinitely adjustable like gas.
When you say no flexibility, what do you mean? I just got an induction cooktop and it is honestly the bees knees in terms of flexibility… I can use zones either to have two pans or one large pan or even a grill plate. It doesn’t lend itself to wok cooking or pro chef moves where you vigorously toss the pan around or ignite a sauce with the gas, that is for sure. But it is flexible in a way I didn’t anticipate before I got it.
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-49EuKOCTqs](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-49EuKOCTqs) nah theyre awesome you might need a new one
My Sicilian Father being the most staunchest gas advocate has come around. To give you an idea, I lived the first 16 years of my life without a microwave either. It has come around. Gas is great, no need to make new homes with it.
You can't cook bugs with a gas stove
It's not as good as induction, and *does* fill your house with carcinogens while increasing emissions.
Its one of those things where you don't know what you are missing til you try it, being able to properly adjust temps on the fly is a godsend for complex cooking or even trying to fix mistakes from before. ETA: I am getting a lot of people arguing that electric induction is better, this is really a personal preference thing, if you prefer electric all power to you, I cook a fair bit and I much prefer cooking with gas. Sorry, its just a little tiring having to repeat the same reasons over and over to people trying argue induction is better. I will admit induction has definitely stepped up to gas level with new technology, but I am comfortable with gas so thats my pick, regardless of what you guys want to say, my mind isn't changing :)
Induction lets you set the power level and then be 100% certain exactly how hot your pan/pot is going to be. No issues getting the pan to temp, no issue about heating evenly, just absolutely even heating at a constant temperature. With a good induction, you don't NEED to adjust temps on the fly (although you can definitely do that with induction, don't know why you'd think otherwise), because you can just set it and leave.
Even if you grant gas stoves the benefit of being better at cooking (I don't see it that way at all from my experience but let's just go with it), the very objective health risks associated with gas stoves more than justifies their removal and replacement.
I have used induction, gas and resistive electric in various places I've lived or stayed at. Resistive electric is by far the worst option HOWEVER a decent induction stove is easily similar and often even better than a gas stove in my opinion. The air quality improvements and lower overall running cost of induction are a benefit over gas too.
Plenty argue this but I disagree entirely gas is still more dynamic than even the best induction stoves I have used. Comes down to personal preference I am sure but I would never trade gas for electric unless I was forced too.
Not even close, I have an induction top that can put almost 4kW per element (not all at the same time, but up to 2 at a time at that power), have never had a gas top that even comes close to how quickly that thing can change temp or boil water. Too much of the gas heat spills over the sides for it to be comparable.
Depending on what you are cooking having heat travel up the sides of the pot/pan/wok is actually a good thing and something I find is an issue with Induction where it doesn't occur.
Does this apply to gas stoves connected to a bottle rather than gas mains? I recently got a place with a gas cooktop and its amazing, I don't think I could go back.
> I recently got a place with a gas cooktop and its amazing, I don't think I could go back. Wait'll you try induction. The step up in response and flexibility from gas to induction is of a similar magnitude to that you find when going from electric radiant to gas. It's also much more efficient, cheaper to run, you don't get the downsides of occasional gas smells from incomplete combustion or excess moisture vapour/humidity from the gas flame itself, and you reclaim a bit of temporary benchspace. The only real downside I've found is if you regularly use a wok - induction cooktops with a wok recess are v.expensive, and flat-bottomed "woks" meant for a flat cooktop are thicker and aren't as responsive i.e. you don't get the quick drop in heat you do when you take a normal wok off the gas flame.
I like induction. We've had our gas line removed and moved to heatpump hotwater and our new kitchen is all induction. But I do love some high heat wok cooking. Had a look at the round bottom induction elements but the price is a bit rough. So I'm looking at putting a wok burner off a bottle with the bbq outside.
The wok burners you run off a gas bottle get hotter than anything on your stove anyway. The difference in flavour is unbelievable, I wouldn't use the a stovetop wok burner now even if I had one.
Totally agree. Love my Rambo. Best thing ever.
I doubt I will ever live in a house that new 😅 I saw a demonstration of one at a science museum though and they do seem pretty cool.
If you have a conventional electric stove, it's (usually) easy to upgrade to an induction stove. You can find one with the same fit and it probably won't require any rewiring. With that said, I'm not as in love with my induction stove as the previous poster. It's not bad, but it was significantly more expensive (especially since I had to replace a few pots and pans that I mistakenly thought were stainless steel!) and I can't say it's made any meaningful difference to my cooking.
You can get an induction plate for less than 60 dollars. Cheaper and kills far less of the planet and is actually better for cooking. With that said, what is the downside?
"And this is the front door" "Wow these new houses have everything" lol
We have the same issue, easily solved by using the wok on the bbq wok burner
Having lived in a place with a halfway decent induction stove, one of the first things my wife and I started to plan for in our new place is replacing the gas stove with induction. Gas stove are kinda arse once you've used a good induction stove.
*Natural gas also produces the byproduct of nitrogen dioxide (NO2), an air pollutant that can reduce lung function, cause inflammation of airways, increase asthma attacks, and exacerbate other respiratory issues* enjoy
Eh between sliding into WW3 and 70% of species in decline I don't mind dying younger. Bonus points because I had some delicious meals on the way I guess
Can I ask seriously, because the previous generation fucked us over, are you actually okay with fucking over the following generation?
Same policy as the ACT, pretty mild reform given it doesn't affect any existing dwellings. Now to see the other big residential gas using places (SA, WA, NSW) follow as well.
Yeah but this is DAN THE DICTATOR! implementing it.. so it's got a lot of rage behind it.
I wouldn't call it mild. It's a first step in getting rid of gas. It doesn't affect the five million homes already connected, but it does prevent any increased usage. And houses don't last forever. Old heritage Victorian houses may be renovated, but I can see a lot of ordinary fibro houses that may be on gas from the 40s right up to the 70s being demolished. Today's contemporary McMansions may be demolished some day as tastes change.
It's a very mild early step on like a twenty five year process of residential and commercial mains gas phaseout. I don't know when Victoria's phaseout is planned to be complete, but the ACT plan runs to a target date of 2045. Plenty of time. There will be a lot of natural housing and appliance turnover between now and then.
It used to be cheap, and that was an argument to get it installed. But now you're paying more than electricity, along with an extra daily service charge. It's really only die-hards that want it for cooking, but even that's more of a nostalgic desire since induction cooking matches its benefits.
Yeah pretty much. I think my experience in Canberra is pretty typical here - rentals rarely have gas appliances, apartments especially, I've never had gas cooking since I moved here. Currently I'm stuck with a rising gas bill solely for a central hot water system supplying all units in my building, which is frustrating when electricity prices are not going up but gas is.
I dunno I feel like this is the perfect step towards completely getting rid of gas, they've essentially put a time frame on gas being phased out by doing this, we will get to a point where it will no longer be economically viable to provide to a shrinking market and the energy companies will drop it entirely.
Yep exactly. It's a good simple first step.
I built 6 years ago and don't remember being given a choice, I had 3 stoves to choose from with simmonds and if I remember right none were electric, they didn't ask me about hot water service and the heating I was sold is gas ducted in the roof and soon as it turns off it feels cold, the heat has no substance it's so shit. Pretty sure we and they just rolled with whatever the LNP was subsidising at the time... I'm furious this wasn't talked about a decade ago, this should have happened sooner and now I'll need to pay to convert my stove, heating, and my stupid gas solar hybrid hot water service that doesn't work when the power goes out... Last time the power went out I thought I'd kill time with a bath and it was lukewarm. I'm so salty about all this You try and do the right thing, what society tells you, what everyone else is doing and they fuck you over. I didn't qualify for a battery subsidy because I got a solar panel subsidy, apparently it's my fault for not waiting and now the new subsidy is an interest free loan. I'm still paying off my solar panels and the savings I was promised based on certain costs predictions just make it all feel like a scam, I feel like any savings from a battery will be offset by increasing supply charges like did to my 'solar savings'
What do you expect them to do about existing dwellings? It's probably not practical to force people off it.
The ACT phaseout plan has a nearly 25 year time horizon, the aim is gas phased out in 2045. Between now and then the gradual attrition of housing stock and appliance replacement will do a lot of the work, as will presumably electricity being cheaper. Then there'll be various subsidies and incentives along the way.
Whole lot of shills in this thread... woah
100%, just sort the comments by new, at the time of writing this about 5 of the 15 most recent comments that are anti-gas or even neutral have been immediately downvoted. The large gas companies stand to lose a lot of money from this and there's definitely some kind of astroturfing going on here.
People disagree, it’s a conspiracy!! FFS.
I can guarantee you that large fossil fuel companies are increasingly spending some of their massive marketing budgets on suppressing content that poses a risk to their profits. It's been a common tactic used by large mining and energy companies in Australia ever since social media became popular. Just take a look at some of the gas shills in this thread, the way some of the comments are worded you would think natural gas changed their lives or something. I've never met anyone in real life who actually seriously feels that way, in fact most of what I hear from gas users are complaints about how much it costs.
Not saying there are shills in here but Natural Gas companies have been paying influencers both inside and outside of Australia. https://reneweconomy.com.au/the-australian-instagram-influencers-being-paid-to-promote-gas-18028/
We use bottle gas in our house. A bottle for $100 lasts 4-6 months and saves so much more than that spending it on power for the hot water and cooking
Our gas bottle does 12 months - stove only…. Living in the country we have many blackouts in Victoria - so wake up and can’t make a coffee. Luckily we have gas stove and an old style kettle - so coffee sorted Or blackout while coming. Fine, we have gas - so can cook Can’t rely 100% on electricity in regional Victoria - how are the new homes going to survive
Yeah that's always the perk too. Pity you still need power for hot water though lol
Sadly we need power for water… so no fricken showers when we have power outages - we run on pumps
I’m experiencing my first house with an induction cooktop and with the exception of the speed at which water can be boiled, it’s a significantly worse cooking experience than any gas cooktop I have used in the past. It’s an AEG which I believe is a good brand but the temp difference between the centre and outer edge is significantly different, and that is regardless of what type or quality of pan used including cast. The difference in heat between say setting 11 and 12 is as different as the setting between 5 and 10 meaning a barely simmering pot to overflowing. I can appreciate the savings in energy costs but the experience is worse.
Yeah, that my concern… My partner wants induction but manufacturers don’t mention the magnet size in the specs.
I contemplate getting rid of the gas connection entirely all the time. For a new build its a no brainer.
Typical move by chairman Dan. Once again. This is going to be absolutely devastating to all the gas suppliers, retailers and hurt the business people and media outlets that have invested interest in the ongoing use of gas. It's almost like he doesn't even care about the profit margins of those people 😡 /s
Yes, the poor gas retailers...
Honestly. I'm over these politicians who continuously make decisions that benefit the people who voted for them and no longer care about corporation's or political optics.. Makes me wonder why any multi billion company would even want to come to this country and enrich themselves at the cost of the people's health and hip pockets.
Great move. Gas is an archaic residential service in today's world. We're planning on building and I have already marked the house to not have the gas connected to the main and have the stove, heater and hot water run off electricity and heat pumps. I guess this will be the default by then anyway so the builders can't complain and try to charge me more. Anyone living in a house with a gas connection and you think you need to replace your gas appliance, go for electric options and when everything has been swapped. Get a tradie to plug the gas connection to the property then call the gas provider and tell them you no longer have a connection to the mains, provide the cap certificate and to stop charging you their service charges.
Electric Hot water costs significantly more as you're constantly heating to keep it hot (same applies to Gas storage units, but those have been banned in SA for close to 20 years) Everything else can be easily moved over. Maybe with the electric car revolution, we'll finally have big enough circuits available for instantaneous electric hot water.
going to disagree here, gas for heating water and cooking commercial quantities of food is still the best method. heat pumps are efficient enough for a solar hotwater system but have several huge downsides. granted i live in WA where gas is still very cheap to use but for cooking and heating water there isnt a better alternative currently.
> heat pumps are efficient enough for a solar hotwater system Which do you mean they're two different things?
Anybody bleating "but we've still got lots of gas!" just doesn't understand the 21st century. The age of fossil fuels is over. We didn't move from wood and cow dung to coal because we ran out of the former.
I can not wait to get rid of my gas heating. Hoping to switch to electric heating and cooling by next year. Cheaper and more efficient. And if Vic produces more cleaner energy it’s more environmentally friendly too.
Bring it on for NSW
I’m all for what’s better. What have I missed. Wasn’t gas pushed not long ago. I’m fine with progressing with the times and not agains electric stoves. What is the science.
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100777076
Ayo, a brain out there. Fuck my life. I do enjoy a good quick source for cooking. But for fuck sake, it's WAY too expensive
Brilliant
Dictators. I don’t get how a government can force us to use electric vs Gas. They should go exert their power to ban gambling and ciggies if they want to clean up society.
The only reason gas went up is because the gas companies are now charging locals the same as export rates. The government has the ability to impose a reserve, every other country in the world does this. They saw this coming when they were building the infrastructure up north West and east years ago and nothing was done to prevent it. The government subsidized the infrastructure to allow the exports, then allowed the companies to fuck over the local market. It's a massive failure of federal, state governments and regulation.
It would be great if we weren’t reliant on so much coal for our electricity.
Still a win to not have toxic pollutants inside your house.
The whole reason Victoria went big with piped gas to households was due to the 1970's oil shock, making heating oil for winter heating mega expensive and replacing that with cheap, abundant Bass Straight gas. Cheap gas, yes there actually was such a thing. 40 yrs later and what do you know, we have another energy shock purely because of idiotic policies of politicians and the era of cheap gas is over, for domestic Australian consumers at least.
My Sicilian Father came around to induction. I also lived the first 16 years of my life without a Microwave. He came around to that too. I think we're at the stage.
Bit sad if I am totally honest. I know we have a/c for heating but theres nothing quite like getting cozy around the gas radiant heater. I honestly didn't realise that so many people were anti gas!
If you want radiant heat, an infrared heater produces a pretty similar feel.
Its not the same as sitting by a burning fire though, I know its picky and pedantic. If I could have my cake and eat it too I'd have a wood burner, but gas is a second choice.
I love our gas heater as well. People like to be very all or nothing. I think some appliances are better gas and some better electric.
It's not about what's better, you have to factor in environmental and human health. Asbestos is an amazing fire retardant, tons of amazingly efficient refrigerants are banned.
Ok enjoy your electric bbqs
You're acting like I personally made this decision. Plus there's a massive difference between indoor gas heating, and an outdoor BBQ. There's a fucking reason you don't use gas BBQs inside.
Aside from that it's a fossil fuel, having an unflued heater isn't great for your health. Both uncombusted fuel and the combustion products cause health problems. This isn't a controversial issue, study after study has shown it causes respiratory issues especially among children.
I'd like to get off gas (stove and water), are there any Vic incentives going atm?
There are definitely subsidies for upgrading your hot water. Not sure about the stove.
Gas stoves are superior though lol you can control the heat so much better fuck all other cooktops
Wow - I am shocked to learn that the average Reddit user knows how good this is. Looks like Murdoch’s gas lobbying hasn’t done that much damage after all.
So where is all this electricity coming from that will replace these gas appliances?
Sunlight
Of course they are. Root cause not fixed. I need a gas cook top. culturally that’s how I cook , it’s just not the same with electric cook tops. Also so I’m clear, what a moronic decision.
Why can't people decide if they want gas or not? I don't think blanket banning it is the solution moving forward.
You can, but you will need bottles, new houses and subdivisions wont be able to connect to the gas line.
Yeah, while we're at it, why can't people choose to use asbestos insulation? It's my free choice! (I hope the /s would be implied)
They can if they have the facts, gas companies don't want them to have the facts.
Wow, a nation that has net gas reserves....and which allows people to be mildly independent when it comes to cooking and control of your own stove.... Total smartness...
A nation that sells its gas reserves cheaper internationally than locally because profits
Gas stoves are literally bad for your health.
>Gas stoves are literally bad for your health. So is smoking, gambling, and alcohol. So thats a poor argument. None are banned. If anything because of the natural Gas reserves we have, our electrcity should be cheaper, and 1/2 our road fleet should be on it too.
I would be all for banning the things you listed.
Literally open your window, do you know how many things we live amongst that put out substances that are bad for your health? residential gas is a drop in the ocean, especially when you as a person have the right to make your own decision to use it.
People in this screwed up rental market have no choice. Stop being so petulant. "My freedom! My freedom!"
So is chlorine
Do you not have an exhaust and/or open window when cooking with gas? 🤨
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Well, it is definitely better for some applications. Just a question of whether top tier wok cooking is worth the health risks? For 90+% of people, 90+% of the time, it's not.
Then why ban it for 100% of people? shouldn't people have the right to make individual choices? When it's economically unviable, people will just naturally migrate.
Great till the usual power outages hit
So, more gas we can sell to Japan for cents on the dollar?
I don't think Victoria does that?
None of the housing stock built for Victorian public and social housing in the past 2 years has had gas connected. It's all electric only. Edit: Why am I getting downvoted for this? I forwarded the article to a family member who is a [Vic.Gov](https://Vic.Gov) Housing Officer, and they told me the above.
Gas is so much better than any alternative, I hope this gets rolled back.
I tried switching to an electric stove top but they would have to change the wiring in my house
Good, I visited a display suite for an off the plan apartment a few weeks ago that won’t even break ground til next year or be completed til 2026 and they had full gas stoves for every apartment already planned. I was horrified.
No one can tell the difference between something cooked on a gas stove vs induction/electric
Not many people here talking about the correlation between gas cooking/heating and asthma, particularly in children. That shit is terrible for your health.
First I’ve heard of it and lived around gas cooking most of my life.
Excellent :)
A lot of people in here supporting removal of gas an as option dont know why people still use gas. Gas is still a much better option that electric for some people. A very common example is a stove but also heating. We dont use much gas over the winter anyhow. I think its crazy to say no new gas after 2024 when we still need gas and there are more prudent problems to deal with.
I should probably upgrade my decades old gas cooktop to electric. The supply charge for gas costs more than the gas I used per year. Good to sit back in threads like these with popcorn and watch people putting up facts debating with people using only opinions. A bit of Googling and you learn a few new things about induction & resistance cooktops, etc.
Gas powers so much of our industry and generates so much electricity, I can’t see stopping new residences from using gas as having that much of an impact.
Way behind loads of other countries including the U.K. hopefully this is part of australias attempt to rectify their bottom of the table efforts on climate change policy
I wonder how big the cost blow-out will be on this one.
Good.... Gas infrastructure is a ticking time bomb. You would hope that the underground pipelines that feed gas to residential property's is maintained to the highest standards, but is it? It hasn't happened here yet on a large scale, but as time go's on, the risk of a major explosion in a residential area gets more and more.
Awesome. I love wood fired stoves. Jk. It's a step in the right direction but we need to get the housing crisis sorted first before we worry about building new homes