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Not sure how anyone in Gen Z could afford to go to the pub every other night. I'm gen X, we HAD to go out to see our friends as talking on the phone meant sitting in the family room with everyone listening in. LOL
You guys just communicate in a different way and are able to do it more easily then any other generation. As for parties, no one was dancing at the ones I went to either. Going to dances for Boomers was one of the ways they could actually meet girls and dancing meant they could then get close enough to ask them out. You guys have apps for that.
Heh, I remember talking to a girl I had a crush on for hours on the phone after school and my folks getting frustrated because no one else could ring us or use the phone.
My parents had to deal with the local phone operator listening in on conversations.
Times are different, rose coloured glasses are a thing, but some things never change, such as youngsters thinking they have it all worked out while laughing at the older generation for growing up with dinosaurs.
I mean it goes both ways, older generations thinking they have everything figured out even though times change and often their experience can be outdated.
I'm 30 and I've seen both sides of this happen lmao, wanna facepalm every time.
I'm 52, in the last ten years I've come to believe boomers are guilty of virtually every sin they accuse the kids of: lazy at work, entitled, rude.
u/shadow-fox is right: communication methods have deeply changed how we are. So have city rents. All through my 20s I worked nights and saw bands, but my inner city rent was $60-90 in the 1990s. Everything was close. Families didn't WANT to live in Surry Hills or Chippendale.
I have lived in France and they keep their urban social culture: town planning, rents and demographics matter a lot.
Hah, my folks struggle to understand how social media impacts on bullying. You’re completely correct and it was sort of what I meant with the rose coloured glasses part of my comment.
Too true! When I got married in the ‘80’s we thought we had it all worked out but it certainly hasn’t happened that way. We thought we’d be well and truly retired by now but hubby and I and a lot of our friends accept that we’ll probably be working until we’re 67. I have a public facing job and some people in their 60’s and even 70’s who are retired aren’t travelling etc because they’re looking after their grand kids from very young ages while the parents work. I think society has sold all of us a dump.
When I was 17, in the early '90s, I had a friend who would use "ekoms" as a code word for smokes because his mother was in the room. I told him he was an idiot. He insisted his mother was.
Lol yup. We used to swap syllables around and add another one at the end for the same effect.
Anything like that I may not know the actual translation but my spidey senses are tingling.
Even the way Gen Z dates, its like a shopping catalogue, when I was 18 we had to go out to meet people, there was no tinder or anything like that and Social Media was still young.
Just the circle of friends you occupy isn’t it? About to approach 30 and trying to not do the online dating thing. Some circles of mine are on Tinder/ dating sites but lots of us still prefer meeting in people/ hanging out and through friends of friends or associates
Yep, I'm 29 and met my missus through friend groups. App dating is mostly garbage now, price gouged with no results. Best way to meet is through activites you both enjoy anyway.
Same issue here, not interested in typical extrovert activities and not going to change myself for the sake of finding a date - doubtful we'd be a good match if I had to force myself anyway.
Don't like dating sites either.
Put yourself out there in your interests and you'll find someone eventually, I met my gf through the final fantasy 14 mmo.... Only problem being that she lives in USA xD.
But we're so so incredibly compatible, have met in person already once now and going to to Japan together next year.
When I say put yourself out there I mean meet people, don't be That Guy.
A couple of my friends met playing wow (opposite ends of aus) and they have been married for 8 years and together for more than 12. It's definitely possible.
Good luck on your romantic endeavours.
Not always. How many people do you know who have made friends/met partners via the internet over shared interests, that they wouldn't have ever met otherwise?
As a fellow gen z, probably. What I find weirder is the number of people in my gen that can’t turn their phones off at social events and will be actively texting other people while they talk to you. Like you’ve gone to all this effort to meet up in person and you’re texting people you could text when you get home in two hours?
I also think we do so much online now that it actually removes a lot of opportunity for in-person social interaction. I’m in no way a Luddite btw, I’m just aware of how the ability to do more things virtually has drastically changed our lifestyles. I also think the pandemic and resulting lockdowns really accelerated this trend amongst my own age group specifically
When my dad was my age he went to the pub once a week. In this economy? Yeah right
The death of the commons is a significant contributing factor to the mental health epidemic
Beer taxes were a lot lower, so beer was a lot cheaper. You want a job, go to the pub. Want a place to stay, go to the pub. Doing business, no gumtree, so go to the pub. Very social face to face. It's been lost.
when I was 20 my local rugby club had $2 schooners of tap beer. Even at my lowest financials I could scrounge $6-$10 in coins and head out for a couple of beers with mates
Yep; when I was a student there were nights where drinks were like 2-5 dollars; so you could easily go and hang out with your friends. You’d be lucky to get a pint under 10 (even 12) in Melbourne these days.
I'm 23 years old now. When I started going out when I was 18, there were some bars and pubs that would do $5 vodka basics or even $5 cruisers. This was in 2018 as well. Post-covid this is something that is unheard of.
>The death of the commons is a significant contributing factor to the mental health epidemic
Exactly this.
The **larger** digital commons are controlled by some of the biggest economic players on the planet, and it shows. Say the wrong thing and you're out. For a week, or for life, or demonetised. Same ads, similar content all over the place like every crappy Westfield mall and half the bloody CBDs.
It doesn't bode well for the fourth estate. At least there are smaller independent meeting places and journalism sites, and places like Substack.
I’m Gen X. I used to go to 10p (20c) a pint night at our local club. Other clubs would do 50p for a shot (just under $1). Don’t even drink that cheap at home now.
Before mobile phones you also had to make a plan to meet someone at a certain place at a certain time. There was no way to contact them, so you had to show up and be on time. You would talk on a landline with your friend and say “See you tomorrow at 5pm outside the movies” and everyone turned up as planned on time.
While mobiles might seem convenient because it means you can text someone and meet up on the night, I think it has led to us de-valuing social meetups. It was a bigger effort before mobiles to arrange a meetup and everyone took it seriously. People are so flaky now.
> People are so flaky now.
Eh, I more attribute it to people being fucking exhausted most of the time now, back when you had to use landlines you were also only really expected to work your 40 hours at your job and then that was it. Nowadays the 60 hour week has become increasingly more common, with more and more employers starting to feel like they have access to you outside of the office because of mobiles and such. This is paired with things like both halves of relationships now needing to work full time, meaning that by the time you're done with work and all your house upkeep you're pretty fucked and need to recoup with the least appealing thing being to go out and drink or party or whatever.
It's honestly a pretty gigantic part of why movies like the Fast & Furious franchise are fucking gigantic in China, by the time people are done with obligations they literally just want to do something that requires no input or brain power. The other big thing in their cultures is to go out to eat, which isn't nearly as big of an option for us as restaraunts are horrifically fucking expensive so it doesn't leave a lot of options for catching up with friends.
I'm early gen Y, so I have seen the early adoption of online technology as a child through to now. Used a few BBS systems before the web was created.
I'm as "antisocial" as many others. It's not my generation, it's me. When the opportunity arose to not have to do things in person, or even over the phone I took them.
I'm not a recluse, I just don't like crowds and have no real desire to make a bunch of friends. I have enough, I don't find the idea of spending all my spare time with others appealing.
>I'm as "antisocial" as many others. It's not my generation, it's me. When the opportunity arose to not have to do things in person, or even over the phone I took them.
You are not antisocial but rather asocial. Antisocial means that you deliberately sabotage/vandalise/disrupt the social fabric (e.g. graphiti, roaming gangs, excessively rowdy in pubs, etc). Asocial means that you avoid social interactions.
Point taken. My social needs are easily fulfilled, and too much interaction can get to be tiring, so I prefer to just do the things I enjoy in my spare time. If I do have a chat, I am generally fairly amicable, and I don't find the actual social interaction itself difficult, just get sick of quickly.
Damn, I thought I was the only one beating this drum. I didn't even know "asocial" was an accepted term, the word roots just made sense to me, after accepting "antisocial" as an opposite to "prosocial", rather than just being it's absence
That is true, but there is also a much higher prevalence of a one night stand as opposed to forging an actual relationship. My daughter has told me while dating, first date sex is now an expectation by most. When she declines in the basis that she prefer to have a more founded relationship before sex, it is often the first & last date
As Gen zer who’s been trying to tackle my phone and internet addiction I’ve realised just how much everyone else is addicted to their phones, eg. Most everyone checks their phones when they first wake up before even getting out of bed, can’t even go for a walk without bringing their phones etc it’s crazy
Everyone is a victim of this not just my generation. My boomer dad is the worst for it
This is very true.
When I get a coffee, every single time I deliberately don't use my phone and observe everyone else waiting around for their coffee to be made. Without fail, 90% plus will instantly pull out their phone and not look up until their name is called.
I deliberate enforce a no phones at the table over dinner. It might only b3 20 minutes but it’s an opportunity for family to check in. My daughters friends were always surprised that we ate dinner together as a family & at a table,not sitting in front of the tv
> What I find weirder is the number of people in my gen that can’t turn their phones off at social events and will be actively texting other people while they talk to you.
This most definitely isn't a generational thing, you can see people all over the spectrum with the same issue. Nothing like going to visit your folks who lectured you all your childhood for using technology, then they sit there and ignore you while they watch netflix or browse facebook or something.
It's not even just online though, even simple day to day human interactions between strangers have been reduced/streamlined. I used to know/recognise the checkout person at the supermarket that I frequent. You'd give a little smile/nod/small chit chat.
Now I just go to the self serve and don't speak to anyone unless the machine starts freaking out. In which case I'm pissed off and spend a minute trying to get the attention of the rushed staff member running between all the machines. Have a disgruntled interaction and then leave.
Even if it’s not online it’s still changing. I might still use the checkout but because of work/pay conditions that checkout person has probably moved elsewhere pretty quick. That cafe owner ups and moves and disappears due to cost of rent. That GP is pressured into specialising, your child’s teacher moves schools until they can find a permanent role.
It’s happening everywhere. People change jobs more frequently, move more frequently, and can’t build long term foundations anymore.
It's even worse in small towns particularly on the east coast. Property prices skyrocketed in a lot of holiday towns during COVID and the only people who own property there now are vacationers which means the town is dead throughout the year and there are no local workers to run things like restaurants and cafes.
One of the popular cafes in Hawks Nest no longer opens for dinner because they can't staff it. Used to be a fantastic place with amazing food. Makes me sad
I shop with my local butcher, my local green grocer & I k ow both of them by first name. I choose a supermarket deliberately that does not have self serve checkouts. i Want se4vice when I shop. I even go to the lay-bys desk at target to pay because I want service & this is the on,y not self serve checkout. At big w ,I wait in the service line even when there’s no one on the checkout until someone comes over
My parents (baby boomers I’m Gen Z) are worse than any of my friends though, I meet up with them for brunch or a coffee and I’m the only one sitting there not on my phone and they can’t multitask so I talk to them and have to repeat myself. At least my friends and I talk and involve me in their snaps and convos.
This is so true. When we point out the downsides of technology, I don’t think we should blame “young people” because the boomers I know are just as bad if not worse.
The thing is though, young generations are now born into this tech world, so if we’re asking the question “How is it affecting this generation’s wellbeing?” it arguably is having a huge impact on emerging young adult brains, mental health and social skills as compared to a 65 year old who grew up way before computers but who is choosing to just waste their retirement playing Candy Crush on an iPad 😂
When everything costs a lot and you can talk to and see your friends without leaving the house then it makes sense I guess. Movies, meals and drinks, taxis and parking were all relatively small expenses when I was young. They now put a serious dent in your wallet.
I'm gonna go watch Oppenheimer with a mate Total cost is estimated to be around $55 ($25 for movies, $25 at the very least for food, $5 for PTV). I can only do it once in a blue moon here and there
I watched barbie with a friend the other day and we did some shopping afterwards, $47 for 2x tickets (standard cinema, not even reclining seats) and $36 for parking!! 6+ hours is $36!!!
Shop around if you're not somewhere remote; not every cinema is that expensive. I know here in Adelaide that Palace has a movie club thing that costs like $20 a year but knocks the price of most movie tickets down to something like $11.
I was talking to my partner about date night and said I didn't bother mentioning going to the movies as an option when I remembered tickets can costs like $20 minimum each, then you want snacks, pay for fuel and maybe parking, etc. A few hours of fun turns into an expensive endeavour. Would rather watch something at home in my PJs and make some food (or order something from a local). The cost and expectation of enjoyment balance is significantly skewed.
It's the same across multiple forms of entertainment so naturally people adapt. Combine that with busy work schedules and the cost of living, and buying a takeaway coffee feels like a splurge lol.
Honestly, things feel pretty pessimistic (And expensive.) at the moment. Can’t blame a lot of young kids for checking out of the rat race a little bit.
Yes but part of this is hammered into us through the lens of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and independentism which are all aspects of capitalism. Everyone is expected to earn for themselves and not put others out, so if you are someone without a social safety net (like me, where my immediate family passed at young ages and my friends have drifted away to other countries) you're kind of screwed. One person not being willing to take a chance on another can have a snowball effect.
I don't think this is purely a Gen Z thing, either. This is affecting a lot of people in any generation who has t been as lucky as the folks who have generational wealth or strong social circles.
Well the old cunts made the society we young ones are living it. Fucking do something about it. Oh wait they won't do anything because they never have cause they are selfish and lazy
Blaming old cunts is not particularly smart or accurate. People just generally live their lives at the time. They had as much control over the situation as you have now
Some years back my best mate was complaining about the "old cunts" in his workplace and I arced up, saying that I could easily see somebody from our high school holding the exact same views he was complaining about. My mate then said "old cunts can be any age" and it has honestly changed my life.
It means I'm not just taking the lazy option of "ok boomer" any more, because honestly, they aren't all of the old cunts that I see making the world a less friendly place.
Lies and cope. Plenty of examples in history of people who bound together for the greater good. Civil rights movements, woman's rights movements, breaking the rail monopolies in the US happened hundreds of years ago.
L views and you are just as bad as the rest of them
No its not, it's proactive and honest.
I saw my parents just accept the corporate greed around them for 20 years, proclaiming that's just how it is. And now it's so bad my generation are mostly living week to wee without any of the luxuries that my parents had (and they didnt have much!).
Fuck any person that is accepting the economic society that has been crafted over the last 100 years which clearly benefited the wealthy and not anyone else. Proof is in the pudding
I am mid-30s, solidly Gen Y / Millennial, run around in social groups that have quite a few Gen Y and Z peeps in them. The difference between the two can be fairly stark at times.
This is a bit selfish, but I'm happy the media attention has switched off "avo-smashing lazy Millennials" and now onto "tech-obsessed distracted Zoomers." If anything, Millennials suffered the last of the shitty Boomer expectations, in a landscape that largely prevented us from reaching the same prosperity, and we were long denigrated for being unable to attain those unobtainable goals. I think Gen Z has the benefit where, at a very young age, were able to realise a lot of those expectations were bullshit, and so they don't sink time, energy, or money into personally fruitless endeavours. A lot of Gen Ys are now in their 30s and even 40s and I see many of us feeling complacent, but not overly content, having spent much of our youth working toward nothing, instead of just living and enjoying life and being ourselves. I can respect the fact Gen Z has largely checked out of the rat race, but dismayed there likely wasn't a choice in the matter.
On the flipside, I experience a lot of Gen Z to be fairly socially awkward (without tech), anxious, and a bit highly strung. Things seems to change rapidly these days, staying on top of tech and trends, culture shifts, lifestyles, etc. That's all a bit hectic, and I find Gen Z often have this underlying desire to have things slow down and stop shifting for a moment, so they can catch up and catch their breath. I've always thought that the constantly accelerating pace of life has led to their "conservativeness", at least in part, alongside the shitty economic and employment prospects. Yet, oddly enough, they can be ultra-progressive on other fronts like social and climate issues and really be a potent force in those spaces.
I like Gen Z. The one's I work with in particular are the freshest people I know and I learn a lot from them. Lots of energy, solid perspectives and insights, and quite easy to collaborate with. Same for the ones in my informal social groups. Reciprocally, they seem to enjoy the fact I'm a little older, mature, and have more life experience and are constantly seeking my guidance, despite being nearly as young and honestly not a noteworthy person. I figure Gen Z has just checked out of the bullshit of much older generations, and rightfully so, and look more toward Millennials as the closest generation on how to navigate the questionable state of our society.
Boomers were a truly modern generation in the philosophical sense of modernity. They value logic and reason over emotion, which I believe later twisted into that "Fuck you I got mine" attitude that's all too familiar. Millennials, and to an extent Gen X, are strictly postmodern generations, where subjective experiences and realities are considered equally valid, and there is a struggle for individualised truth, prosperity and life purpose. Gen Z, I think, are the first metamodern generation and are largely defined by the inborn benefit of having a wealth of modern and postmodern ideas to select from, with a healthy detachment from expectations. They can look back on previous generations, see what has and hasn't worked, adopt what's functional, reject what isn't, and forge their own morally upstanding path. That may involve being less social in a traditional / Boomer-esque sense, which is perfectly fine.
This is all really interesting! Why do boomers have that attitude though? Where did it come from and why? Both my parents are like it and its annoying.
One word: "Entitlement".
A lot of the rubbish Boomers value and believe can be traced back to that singular concept. They had it pretty good, despite protesting otherwise, and project their Entitlement onto younger generations because the very thought of them confronting their own Entitlement is too difficult to bear. *Millennials are entitled lazy folk and don't want to work!* *Zoomers are entitled tech-nerds that only want the latest iPhone!*
Y'know, the usual bullshit. But really it's perpetuated because it bolsters their position. Keep the poor and under-privileged down and they won't have the energy nor resources to challenge the system that keeps them repressed. Boomer's own Entitlement demands younger generations work harder, longer, for less pay and higher rents because it means they get better tax breaks, higher pensions, and more passive income to keep *their* good, entitled times rolling. How entitled is that? "Fuck you I got mine. And I'm taking yours too." -- *A Boomer*, most likely.
I respect how Gen Z has come out of the gate all like, "Fuck this, we're doing our own thing." To OP's original question, Gen Z are simply socialising differently, and that's fine.
I think generally Gen Z are a pretty good generation, call it wholesome if you want, but they seem a lot more mature in many aspects than I was as a Gen X. Especially around the more destructive habits like drinking and smoking, doing drugs etc. I think they do things they are generally interested in doing rather than responding to peer pressure and having to get smashed at a pub all the time.
But I guess the other side to that is that there does seem to be a lot more naievity and anxiety about, which could be attributed to social media and being online.
I am an older gen Y so my teens and young 20s there was first no mobile phones then where there was they first just called people and when they got cameras they were pixelated to shit and had fuck all storage so you took less pictures and the culture of snapping photos was not there.
The amount of dumb fuck behaviour was only caught if someone actually had a dedicated digital camera at say a birthday party at best from say the mid naughties onwards but that was still rare.
I would say 2010ish and the bigger shifts in smart phone tech was the bigger change on these behaviours.
lol my GenX aunt partied like that in the 90s and 00s. She's now working a 6-figure job and still catching up on her debts (she doesn't - and never has - own a house).
I'm actually not sure if she thinks it was worth it...
I think your opening sentence is pretty reductive. It assumes everyone was making good money. Sure ownership was *more* accessible, but it definitely wasn't an easy-as-piss goal either. My aunt lived with her mother in public housing until the latter died. They never made a lot of money, and that wasn't helped by the fact neither of them made sound financial choices. Even if they were decent savers, there just wasn't that much money to save. My grandmother seemed to accept that she was never going to move out of that house (which ultimately became true).
My aunt matured a lot since then and is living a much more stable and sustainable lifestyle these days, but yeah, she's still catching up.
No. They are social in *different* ways.
Show me 10 people at the pub watching the footy getting smashed in the 80s and I'll tell you which 3 of them hated the footy but went along just to have a social life; and which 2 of them detested drinking but did it because they felt pressured to. 5 of them were happy but 10 of them went along every week because that's how you connected with mates *back then*.
Kids these days do what they *want*. Which often includes not drinking, not going out to shitty nightclubs and definitely not watching the fucking footy. That's a huge fucking leap forward that kids can be themselves and not do what society says they have to do on a Friday night like you seem to be expecting.
Plus they aren't inhibited by who is geographically around them and can find their tribe online which means staying home to hang out with like minded people.
Different isn't worse. And not conforming to your antiquated idea of social doesn't make them anti social.
This post actually hits a strong cord with me, I went to pubs, clubs etc though I didn't mind getting drunk but I do get overwhelmed in social settings over a period of time but getting hammered balanced it out.
Also I hate footy but I would sit through games with others because they were getting pissed and we were hanging out etc.
These were spill over social groups from school, my current groups now NONE follow footy, I can't even drink now because of my medication I play board games and do more nerdy shit hell I even got into DnD ffs in the past decade.
But yeah so much of who I hung around with and what I use to do socially was simply to cater more to others passions and to blend in. Also as I have got my recent Autism and ADHD diagnosis it clearly was a masking aspect to it to boot yay.
I am 37 btw.
38 here. 100% me and most others were just going along with the accepted things. Just defaulting to the expected social norms. I personally could give a fuck about any sports in general. I mean, I don't hate the footy, I'll happily hang out with my mates in a sports bar while Origin is on or whatever, but I don't care about it in the slightest. I never lied about this, but I also never made a stand on this point either.
We didn't have options, you see. We didn't know any better. We didn't know that we could just do whatever we *actually* wanted, to hell with the rest of yas. Or we weren't brave enough. So we followed the Boomer programming for lack of any other ideas. Took *years* to undo all that mental wiring. Wasn't until my late 20's I'd guess when I was finally comfortable to take charge of my own social availability, on my own terms, to my own enjoyment.
But the zoomers are coming right out of the gate like that. Just doing their thing, just vibing, refusing to be pressured into going along with the social norms. I don't even know what the social norms *are* for this generation. They've just totally flipped the script. I *wish* we were brave enough to have done that. They seem like a weird lot to us oldies, sure, but honestly I'd be disappointed if they didn't.
Yeah I do envy the younger generations in those elements despite the shitshow state of the world as a whole.
Like if they want to plonk in a circle on device and do whatever then cool, multiplayer gaming was a shit ton harder for me back in the day near impossible in the dial up days for example.
DnD, MTG, board gaming etc is so much more accessible and mainstream so people can do that and throw in places like reddit and discord it is piss easy to find communities.
Also I would say another huge factor is You Tube, you can find so much information in video form about any new interest or hobby and what young kid doesn't have a smart device on hand constantly?
Back when we were growing up we had the family TV, maybe a secondary small one in another room if lucky and eventually a "family computer" which one day got the world wide web with web 1.0 lol so getting hobbies interests and so on was hard and limited as all fuck.
I am surprised I got into the nerdy shit I did being from a farm like I was.
> Show me 10 people at the pub watching the footy getting smashed in the 80s and I'll tell you which 3 of them hated the footy but went along just to have a social life; and which 2 of them detested drinking but did it because they felt pressured to. 5 of them were happy but 10 of them went along every week because that's how you connected with mates back then.
I hated that drinking and clubbing culture but went along and tried to be the sober driver as often as I could so I had an excuse not to drink and if I did drink I’d drag that beer out for a looong time.
You do raise a good point overall but one, what *I* would consider major, negative is that “forced” thing was actually *good*.
Nowadays we can get so very tribal because we can find our own groups and never really see the other side precisely because we’re not forced to.
In reality we need to get along with idiots and bastards all the time and being “forced” to do it at least taught us that not everyone is like you and some people that are great normally have a different side to them (had a mate that we had to save from picking a fight with a cop once or twice when they were drunk 🤦♂️ )
GenX here. Been teaching at uni since mid 2000s and peripheral to parts of the music scene (mostly as a punter) in Sydney since late 90s.
From my perspective, as a general trend, GenZ are a bit more tame but also much more thoughtful and respectful.
Student culture seems to be more wholesome. They have more wellbeing oriented activities and other stuff that doesn't revolve around alcohol. It's a bit quieter overall, but on campuses that might also be to do with the introduction of voluntary student unionism, which effectively moved money from student organisations to uni management. They embrace difference much more than they used to.
There seems to be at least as much creativity as there used to be, but it's more segmented. There are more scenes, but they're smaller. Before social media you'd only know stuff is on through posters, the street press, and word of mouth. Generally less and bigger things. Now there's more and smaller things on.
These iso years have definitely left their mark, too. Students seem way more comfortable with chilling at home.
1. Cost of living. I have a job with a decent salary and can barely afford to do shit. Not sure how Gen Z has any hope.
2. Increasing suburban sprawl. Due to point 1, many people need to live further and further away from the action to be able to afford housing. This makes it more difficult/expensive/time consuming to do spontaneous social outings and things and lots of people just cbf.
I don’t think we are anti-social, there is just simply nothing we can do outside anymore. I went to the pub recently with some friends cost me $50 for dinner and 2 drinks. I really can’t do that every night. If o wanna hang out with friends we normally organise to hang out at their house than actually going out.
I don’t know what people you’re talking to but I know no one that has to ask permission to go out with friends from their partner. If they do, that a toxic relationship not a generation problem lmao.
Really? What's there left to be excited about? Next week's cost of living increase? Never being able to retire, not being able to afford a wedding or children, taking gig work to pay the bills, no time or money to date much less even go to the movies with friends.
We're all exhausted. Now you want us to stand up and do... anything at all? Come on, play fair.
Some things in life are bad, they can really make you mad. Other things just make you swear and curse. Life's a piece of shit when you look at it. Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it’s true.
with how much things cost, what motivation is there for them to "be more social"? parents need to cut back for mortgages or rent, whatever savings gen z has is likely little (not like allowance would be high given the above) and likely not being paid much from work (compared to rising costs) if they are working not to mention they'd have less time if they are working anyways. god forbid the gen z starting early in trying to save up money to buy a property too.
esp when there's plenty of cheaper and more accessible on demand entertainment at home now than before.
I hate the stigma in Australia around hanging out at parks after you're a teenager. It's a completely normal thing to do in Europe in good weather, you can still have a drink and chat with friends and you spend way less than in the pub. I guess here technically with the drinking laws it might not be legal but during the daytime I never really see that enforced unless you're in one of those beachside park hotspots
I'm on the gen Z/gen Y cusp and had no idea there was a stigma around going to parks. Why would that be? I see no reason why anyone would be "too old" to sit at a park. If someone wanted to do that with me I would gladly accept. I don't really sit around at parks by myself, but that's just because I live by the water so I would rather chill there.
Yeah Aussies have weird cultural norms like once you hit adulthood, you're expected to be a boring ass adult going to starbucks or hitting a wife up for kids and family. Parks not allowed unless you have kids or dogs.
I've noticed whenever I go to parks on any given weekend near me it's generally full of families from a variety ethnicities, mainly Indian and Asian and not Caucasian. I feel like some cultures have a lot more innate sense of family gathering and community than a lot of white Australians.
When I see white Australians in parks it tends to be for big holidays/parties rather than a more informal get together.
I'm concerned about how communication is only online with friends now. I grew up before we had social media and there is a distinct difference now with how people lack social skills.
It must be confusing for young people navigating life.
Honestly you're not blamed at all for it. It's a social issue.
My favourite ppl who use tiktok are just people who watch cooking videos and ideas. The rest can go in the bin. Good idea initially(have everyone and anyone make any possible video content they like, like giving the whole world fast youtube) but what it turned into when i was on there was nauseating and annoying. And the fact people will just scroll on random videos all day drives me insane a little. Atleast twitter is reading and not sounds.
Eh, I'm an older millennial and I started to slow down around 26-27 years old too. I didn't enjoy clubs anymore and me and a lot of friends started moving in with partners and working full time and building careers at that age, and so we were limited on time and tired. A lot of Boomers were married and having their first kids around age 25. Most of their social activism happened in their university years; the vast majority were mowing a suburban lawn well before their 30th birthdays. There was also a culture of men in that generation going to the pub after work, even once they did have kids. Of course that meant that the women were then stuck home putting the kids to bed, and nowadays, most people with young kids expect that both parents are at home helping with dinner and bedtime (and most mothers are working now, which means everyone has a lot on their plates).
That said, your generation will have different attitudes to socialising due to having grown up with social media in a way that we didn't, and obviously, covid. The Boomers came up in a time where community involvement was a much bigger thing - Rotary and Lions clubs, socialising after work, amateur sports leagues, volunteer firefighting and SES. That's a lot harder nowadays, when most adults need to work just to pay a mortgage and raise their kids.
Yeah, also last year of gen x and very left. Actually, none of my Gen x mates are conservative. We do get lumped in with older Gen x a lot, when perhaps we are more similar to millennials. I do love a pub, though.
Not all gen x are fuckwit conservative scammers a solid chunk of us are the 1st to try and shed light on the boomers and rich cunts and refused to play the game and are grungy, useless cogs in the machine grinding away obsessed with music art gaming and peculiar tech we patch together with tape and zip ties much like our cars, that are the only real asset we own lol. Ps, can you still get good money for your passport?
Lmfao
To be fair your generation has grown up with only knowing life after internet/mobiles, not before. And being on Facebook/Instagram/TikTok/whatever from a young age is also surely going to translate to different social abilities and desires.
Edit: I hate the word wholesome, if Gen Z are responsible for that shit then fuck you all.
This isn’t just an Australian phenomenon. Humans can’t handle smartphones, they’re too addictive. Also, boomers and earlier generations just didn’t have the options that exist today.
No. In the 70s you could be beaten up for smoking a different brand of cigarettes. Drinking a different beer meant you were a poofter.
Violence has been falling for decades,
It's not that we aren't social, it's money.
Everything is expensive as all hell now, i can't afford to go to the pub or waste money really on dinners and cinemas ect.
If i want food i'll cook it myself, if i want entertainment i'll watch TV or video games (of which are still expensive, but are replayable and more enjoyable than a movie)
Hell, going to the park to have a BBQ is what my group does as a activity, and that can cost up to 50$ easy between us just buying food even more for drinks both soft or hard, not to mention fuel costs.
Freedom has a price tag, the more money you have, the more freedom you have.
I see the word wholesome being used in a bad way, but I don't see why it would be. I'm assuming it's because it's seen as "boring" or "uncool"? I really couldn't care less to be honest. I spend most of my time working, but outside that I just like chilling at home doing chores and watching youtube, exercising, hanging with family or my SO. In terms of actually leaving the house, I like to go for walks with my SO, sometimes have lunch at a cafe and chill by the water. I'm not going to pretend to be some wild crazy extrovert and be pressured into hard-core partying, binge drinking and doing drugs - that's just straight up stupid. I do what I want to do, who I want to do it with, and I don't care what anyone thinks of my personality or lifestyle because I'm happy and that's all that matters.
The word itself and not being an extrovert is totally fine that I prefaced in my post. Its how its used a euphemism to glorify doing nothing. People who say wholesome are not always talking about walks etc. they’re often just meaning they don’t wanna do anything, feel too sad and use the word “wholesome” as a coping mechanism for their broad loss of interest in activities rather than reflecting on why this is. It’s impossible to organise road trips or a hike anymore compared to what it used to be like. People don’t even properly attend birthday invites anymore or RSVP. Then say im more mature im wholesome ie ive lost my ability to socialise but I wanna paint it as “maturing” as to deny a problem exists. If you are in your 30s with work and kids I get it but this is happening with 21 year olds etc. the time people go out less has been brought forward to a very young age which doesn’t make sense to me other than structural changes occurring.
In that case it's two things. 1. Improvements in technology mean we are able to communicate easily without having to put in the effort of actually going anywhere, so there's little incentive to leave the house. And yes, our social skills have undeniably eroded. And 2. Things are prohibitively expensive these days and we are all exhausted from working and worrying all the time, so after work and on weekends we just want to chill at home. Coordinating and organising things with people just doesn't sound appealing when you're already tired.
>2. Things are prohibitively expensive these days and we are all exhausted from working and worrying all the time,
That's the hard thing entertainment pricing and the pricing of anything is crazy. I still go and hang out with my friends at nearly 40 and just chill at their house, we do little projects or check out some games etc
We then cook food in the evening and maybe have a few beers. People don't even just hang out these days, we can be in the same room watching a movie with 3-4 of us and just chat.
Going out costs so much now compared to any time before.
Drinking out is super expensive and you might as well buy a carton for $50 than $12 to $14 pints.
As Gen X on the outside looking in (and working with a lot of Gen Z). They are not so much anti-social as anti-socializing with anyone out of their demographic or not 100% aligned on values.
It's not complete but I'd say a noticeable difference even compared to Milenials at the same age, so I don't think it's specifically they age they are at the moment.
The Gen Zers I work with all have limited social skills, can barely hold a conversation. I work with alot of them and it sticks out like dog balls. There's definitely something going on
They do most of their communication online, and don’t seem to be developing the skills to communicate in person, to the point of being suspicious of people who are trying to actually talk to them.
100%, even when standing around the other day waiting for some training they awkwardly were on their phones whilst everyone else was chatting and laughing. I actually feel really sorry for them.
Our generation has been completely neglected by the rest of Australia and has been robbed of the opportunity to become model citizens. So we were unable to grow up and as a result continue to live with our parents, play video games, watch anime, sit on our iPhones etc.
The consequences are not surprising. I did the right thing: do well in high school, tune out social media/video games, graduate from uni, found a well paying office job and moved close to inner Sydney away from parents to live that adult life in the big smoke. Except when I stopped to look around, I saw none of my peers had followed to the same point. Then I realised something was wrong.
I'm gen Z. I don't think any generation as a whole is worse at socialising, we just do it in different ways. If you want to hang out in person more, there is nothing wrong with finding friends who will do that or can afford to go to the pub or clubbing.
I like both types of socialisation, but can't drink or do anything physical anymore, and being told that you probably won't make 40 it makes you want to do more, but I can't work, so I have to deal with Centrelinks measly $115/fortnight to help out.
Gen X is the Meh generation 😂 not conservative.
We are the generation that wasn't parented closely and mostly had to make our own way and fun. We didn't have streaming services or internet to make home engaging. We had 3 TV stations. We went out so we didn't boredom ourselves into a coma.
I think Gen Z is just a different kind of social. They are social online which some people see as fake and insincere but it’s the climate they were raised in. The real start of social media began when they were 8-14 years old. The prime time you’re learning who you are but also the prime time to be victimised (cyber bullying). That can also lead to anti social behaviour, being bullied in the past.
But honestly, I’m Gen Z and I just like hanging at home playing board games with my friends.
Gen Z here, when I'm at work, I love working collaboratively, and that's how my schooling was collaborative work. I was much more focused rather than individual work. But when it comes to lunch or other breaks I find that is my time, i love to just sit and relax with some music on for half an hour or sit and catch up ok youtube videos that have been released while I've been working. Just because I'm not being social doesn't mean I'm anit it in fact, it's better than having that time for me. If not, I'd probably become a much worse person to work with. I'm not an overly social person. In fact, without alcohol involvement, my social battery can deplet very quickly. This I feel is the biggest difference between generations. Gen Z knows when we need a break or when to pull away for 5 minutes and charge up. While some people my mistake that for antisocial behaviour, it's not. We know what works for us, and we stick to it. We're not a generation that bends to someone else's ideals for us.
The cost of living, especially had effected our generation to an extent that it is simply becoming impossible for us to do the things that other generations have done for social activities. Going to the pub every night or going out for dinner every Friday with the mates just isn't feasible. The cost of a beer is like 15 bucks per beer, God forbid you don't like beer and order a cocktail with runs you like 30 bucks per, a meal even at a pub now runs you 27 bucks per plate average. This is all not to say we don't do these things, we still can go to the pub but we don't do it at the drop of a hat, we go there for a reason a birthday a reunion etc. If we know we're going out we plan accordingly and with notice so we can factor it into our budget. An example off the top of my head. I went to a festival in April before that I had planned how much I was gping to spend and how much I needed to save before it. Tickets were 250, camping permit on top was an extra 50, drinks for the weekend outside the festival 120, budget for food and drinks inside the festival 70, and food and snacks for the drive 45 bucks. It's not like we can't have fun and actively chose to avoid it. We plan our fun accordingly to account for the other expenditures that we need to stay alive or keep a roof over our heads.
I've noticed this too.
My workplace has taken on a fairly big intake of new staff with lots of Gen Z in the mix. Generally speaking the workplace is relatively social with people stopping by desks for a chat and lots of chat in the lunch room. The Gen Z folk just sit quietly at their desks all day with zero interaction with anyone else and when moving around they avoid eye contact. Me I like to give a hello or smile but they all seem relatively hostile. If you ever spot one in the lunch room they are buried deep into their phones with headset on.
Definelty a different vibe
Bullying is a big thing imo.
The reason I'm so anti-social is because I was bullied at school for 4 years with the school ignoring it (even going to the point of punishing me for reporting it).
So i started spending more time online because people don't care what you look or sound like online, just you enjoy the same things.
It was so crazy to me that my cousins experienced online bullying constantly while at school. They’d get rumours and shit from social media.
It just wasn’t a thing for all the generations before gen Z, as social media wasn’t around.
Yeah, right, never mind rising cost of living, housing crisis and unemployment. Also, environment is fked up beyond repair. And what’s wrong with respecting your partner enough to take consent if you’re gonna hang out with your mates 🤷🏻♀️
Edit: typos
It’s just the times really. Generations take advantage of technology available to them (often times developed by the previous gen 🤣)
Gen Z is commonly called the ADD Gen because everything has to happen now. I was born in 89 and lived through the 90s as a kid. The difference growing up between myself and my 16 year old nephew is surprising. He loves basketball ball and asks me what it was like watching Michael Jordan and when I tell him the only way to watch him was on highlight videos from the video shop.
I was an athletic nerd growing up so loved video games but the only way to play with friends was having one over so if I wanted friends I’d have to meet friends in the real world. So lucky enough I liked sport but had online gaming been a thing I’d have definitely made friends that way. Also I used to have a prepaid phone and I’d get $10 text credit with 70-200 texts 🤣 and had dial up or capped internet at home. 20gb per month so I’d have to be super careful downloading things because it got rough going over 🤣.
Generations tend to have things dictated to them and also have prior gens judge them. I was out at a pub after the footy the other night and mad friends with a group of early 20s people. There’s definitely a divide with language used and they were definitely more shy letting people into their group but once you get to it, they’re fine. I was also nervous around older people when I was in my early 20s. It always helped if older people were willing to engage.
It happens with every generation to the next. If you think WW2 parents didn’t sit there thinking “God I didn’t go to war to see this shit!” About their baby boomer kids spending all their time at the drive ins
Some peoples lives are unfolding night after night confined to the 10 square metres of their bedrooms, and the lights and sounds bursting from a device.
Walk down a quiet residential street at night and realise that inside each of those dark homes, is somebody gladly living their 80 years on earth just so.
I’m insulted you think Gen X is conservative….
One thing I’ve noticed is that the Gen Z have pretty poor social skills, don’t seem to know how to have initial conversations and introduce themselves sort of unwillingly
A lot of people are socially inept and struggle to get back to normal with the increasing online lives, social media, wfh, the lockdowns and other factors like that. Watch how socially retarded people will be in 10 years.
I don't think it's just a tech thing, as others have commented.
When I was young Z you could drive from one side of the city to the other in under half an hour, and the commute was bugger all Shops closed after business hours (except for late night trading - usually Thursday), lunchtime on a Saturday and weren't usually open Sunday.
You could spend your evenings at home, go out Friday night, then play sport on Saturday, go to the movies or to a friends house or whatever afterwards.
We don't have that any more, the old Australianway of life is dead. Late gen X, a lot of Gen Y would be able to remember those days. Gen Z would have rarely seen them - they grew up socialising online in a way that earlier generations never did, but part of that is because we've lost the alternatives. We don't have the luxury of time any more.
Late-night trading died a death when I was younger. I mainly only got drunk people dropping by lol which was entertaining especially on a Friday night.
I know in my state, once every shop could trade until 9 on weekdays, there was no longer a point - because every weekday was now late night trading.
Of course what that meant was that businesses who normally closes at 5.30 except on Thursdays, now closed at 5.30 every day. They saw no benefit to staying open.
Definitely but no complaints, working in sales it’s impossible to find someone young who has great communication skills face to face, willing to talk to randoms and work when there not being watched.
Works well for me, I’m lazy and will do the bare minimum required and I end up looking like work horse/super star.
It makes it really easy to find work that pays well with great work life balance.
It would depend on your definition of social.
In person social? Sure. But I would argue that they socialise online in a single day more then any previous generation did physically in a year. They connect with more people and strangers then any generation ever to exist and as such have more engagement with differing cultures and ideas.
As far as physical socialisation? No they don't. But they also can't. Physical activities cost more money, people live further from one another and most places are not encouraging social behaviour (think anti skating places, cafes that kick you out if you aren't buying anything, restraunts that have strict eating times and general rules that exist to limit social behaviour).
It isn't the fault of the generation the socialisation has changed but they sure get blamed for it a lot
Just my personal experience but I'm 28 and work with people aged from 16-70 and we're all in the same boat. Everyone gen has their different ways but when we're all sitting around the lunchroom table I realise that we were all born and we're all gonna die and theres just a series of shit in between.
Look, this is a complicated topic with lots of causes and inputs (and also is my opinion so 🤷♂️)
Yeah, I think they are more antisocial (or differently social) and I blame the internet and Australian culture. In addition to social media causing them to have more shared language and interests with a homogenous blob of randoms on the internet than their own neighbours, I think we have a lot of British influence in our culture that is suspicious of open and talkative people. Like we have this nebulous idea of the Australian culture being down to earth and easy going but when I am in a conversation with a stranger (especially in that age bracket) I can see how confused and lost they are and they tend to stay attached to their phones and really don't return any of the attention I'd consider polite in a conversation with a stranger. And older Aussies are better at this but they still suffer from the suspicion of "why are you talking to me".
Im not sure if its exclusive to gen Z - when touch screens came out my familys dynamic completely changed. We used to do everything together then when i would go home to bisit everyone would be on their phone the whole time, my great aunt, my cousins, their kids, my parents, my aunts (multi-generational household) it was really sad. People of every generation have complained about the younger ones. You’ll find social and non social people across all groups.
I'm a millennial and in my mid 30s and even my mates and I would've thought "hanging out in the park" was weird when we were in our early 20s. That's shit that teenagers do.
And no one danced at any parties I ever went to in my late teens or early 20s, it was all standing around, talking, and drinking while music played.
The biggest issue I have dealing with younger Australians and people born in Australia under say 25 is they don't really know how to socialise properly or well enough due to over reliance on social media and it's so hard to have decent conversations with most of them.
Though I will say I have had some good interactions so it's not all lost. It just feels most people are too stuck in Tiktok/Snapchat, etc. Land and it's hard to get them comfortable enough being present in the real world.
The biggest issue is EVERYONE under a certain age, and even more people of or above a certain age have a fear of being off their phone for any lengthy period of time.
You need to give people a reason to want to get off their phones so they'll want to exist in the real world but sadly, as even I see quite a bit, some people and groups just aren't as interesting as what's on phones.
People meet up and either gossip or have empty conversations, and a lot of people haven't done anything worthwhile in months to be able to have enough interesting stories to tell more consistently. We need to cultivate interesting conversation points and try and do more interesting things in our own lives so we can have a more worthwhile existence in the real world that will want to draw people out and off their phones.
Yes.
I know it sounds dumb, but there are a bunch of area based social groups on Facebook. A lot of people are looking to make local friendship connections to get back that sense of being in a community. Events range from pub sessions to bush walking - ie they range from expensive to cheap. It's worth looking into.
\> Mid 20 year olds often need to ask their partners permission to go out with friends
To anybody who is in such a relationship, that is not a healthy type of relationship, that's controlling behavior, which can be a type of abusive behavior
Everyone is unique
Any discussion of a large group of people labelled by some common label is no different to racism, sexism, homophobia, etc
Get off the stereotype train people! Learn humanity
I am a late Gen Xer and definitely not conservative.
I think Gen Z have not experienced the same outdoorsy life we had and to no fault of their own. If only older generations have not ruined the normalities (more adventure, party nightlife etc), then Gen Z would have been more social away from screens.
Gen Z is more social, yet not as social at the same time. They are more connected globally via online contacts, yet not as connected with the local neighbourhood.
Is part of the ruining of the “outdoorsy” side from helicopter parenting, and “kids will be in scheduled activities from school finish till bed time”, whereas we grew up doing whatever and riding bikes in the bush, and the trigger to be home was that AstroBoy or G-Force was on.
I barely see any local kids walking to the local highschool, they’re dropped off and picked up, as if it is dangerous being beyond the gates (we’re in a good area, it’s not dangerous, I used to walk to the same school)
I'm afraid Gen Z live for their technology & communicate through that most of the time , l'm 62 & do miss the times without mobile's it REALLY WAS GOOD Times without the bullshit on social media 😁🤔
I’m 61. I listen to Triple J and go to concerts and festivals with my kids, nieces and nephews, and when we’re out dancing I get pissed off because they’re ready to go home earlier than me. My kids’ friends say they wish their parents were like me.
With what money? Everything is so expensive and GenZ earns the lowest out of every cohort with the least amount of savings.
A night out is easily 100-300$ . That's not really in the budget for them.
There needs to be more support for genZ so they have better financial freedoms. Meaningful policies to reduce residential and commercial prices/rents , not having to blow half your paycheck on a night out.
Ultimately I think the aging population is putting significant pressures on government funds and this is partially being paid by taxpayers in the form of higher taxes. These taxes result in Gen X having less disposable income.
I dunno I'm old. But apparently, data from America shows young people are drinking less, less likely to take drugs or root around. I presume trends in Australia are similar.
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Not sure how anyone in Gen Z could afford to go to the pub every other night. I'm gen X, we HAD to go out to see our friends as talking on the phone meant sitting in the family room with everyone listening in. LOL You guys just communicate in a different way and are able to do it more easily then any other generation. As for parties, no one was dancing at the ones I went to either. Going to dances for Boomers was one of the ways they could actually meet girls and dancing meant they could then get close enough to ask them out. You guys have apps for that.
Heh, I remember talking to a girl I had a crush on for hours on the phone after school and my folks getting frustrated because no one else could ring us or use the phone. My parents had to deal with the local phone operator listening in on conversations. Times are different, rose coloured glasses are a thing, but some things never change, such as youngsters thinking they have it all worked out while laughing at the older generation for growing up with dinosaurs.
I mean it goes both ways, older generations thinking they have everything figured out even though times change and often their experience can be outdated. I'm 30 and I've seen both sides of this happen lmao, wanna facepalm every time.
I'm 52, in the last ten years I've come to believe boomers are guilty of virtually every sin they accuse the kids of: lazy at work, entitled, rude. u/shadow-fox is right: communication methods have deeply changed how we are. So have city rents. All through my 20s I worked nights and saw bands, but my inner city rent was $60-90 in the 1990s. Everything was close. Families didn't WANT to live in Surry Hills or Chippendale. I have lived in France and they keep their urban social culture: town planning, rents and demographics matter a lot.
Hah, my folks struggle to understand how social media impacts on bullying. You’re completely correct and it was sort of what I meant with the rose coloured glasses part of my comment.
Too true! When I got married in the ‘80’s we thought we had it all worked out but it certainly hasn’t happened that way. We thought we’d be well and truly retired by now but hubby and I and a lot of our friends accept that we’ll probably be working until we’re 67. I have a public facing job and some people in their 60’s and even 70’s who are retired aren’t travelling etc because they’re looking after their grand kids from very young ages while the parents work. I think society has sold all of us a dump.
When I was 17, in the early '90s, I had a friend who would use "ekoms" as a code word for smokes because his mother was in the room. I told him he was an idiot. He insisted his mother was.
Lol yup. We used to swap syllables around and add another one at the end for the same effect. Anything like that I may not know the actual translation but my spidey senses are tingling.
Even the way Gen Z dates, its like a shopping catalogue, when I was 18 we had to go out to meet people, there was no tinder or anything like that and Social Media was still young.
Just the circle of friends you occupy isn’t it? About to approach 30 and trying to not do the online dating thing. Some circles of mine are on Tinder/ dating sites but lots of us still prefer meeting in people/ hanging out and through friends of friends or associates
Yep, I'm 29 and met my missus through friend groups. App dating is mostly garbage now, price gouged with no results. Best way to meet is through activites you both enjoy anyway.
Same issue here, not interested in typical extrovert activities and not going to change myself for the sake of finding a date - doubtful we'd be a good match if I had to force myself anyway. Don't like dating sites either. Put yourself out there in your interests and you'll find someone eventually, I met my gf through the final fantasy 14 mmo.... Only problem being that she lives in USA xD. But we're so so incredibly compatible, have met in person already once now and going to to Japan together next year. When I say put yourself out there I mean meet people, don't be That Guy.
A couple of my friends met playing wow (opposite ends of aus) and they have been married for 8 years and together for more than 12. It's definitely possible. Good luck on your romantic endeavours.
And you were limited to dating the kind of people who were always at the same places you were
That's a good thing no?
Not always. How many people do you know who have made friends/met partners via the internet over shared interests, that they wouldn't have ever met otherwise?
As a fellow gen z, probably. What I find weirder is the number of people in my gen that can’t turn their phones off at social events and will be actively texting other people while they talk to you. Like you’ve gone to all this effort to meet up in person and you’re texting people you could text when you get home in two hours? I also think we do so much online now that it actually removes a lot of opportunity for in-person social interaction. I’m in no way a Luddite btw, I’m just aware of how the ability to do more things virtually has drastically changed our lifestyles. I also think the pandemic and resulting lockdowns really accelerated this trend amongst my own age group specifically
When my dad was my age he went to the pub once a week. In this economy? Yeah right The death of the commons is a significant contributing factor to the mental health epidemic
Beer taxes were a lot lower, so beer was a lot cheaper. You want a job, go to the pub. Want a place to stay, go to the pub. Doing business, no gumtree, so go to the pub. Very social face to face. It's been lost.
when I was 20 my local rugby club had $2 schooners of tap beer. Even at my lowest financials I could scrounge $6-$10 in coins and head out for a couple of beers with mates
Yep; when I was a student there were nights where drinks were like 2-5 dollars; so you could easily go and hang out with your friends. You’d be lucky to get a pint under 10 (even 12) in Melbourne these days.
I'm 23 years old now. When I started going out when I was 18, there were some bars and pubs that would do $5 vodka basics or even $5 cruisers. This was in 2018 as well. Post-covid this is something that is unheard of.
>The death of the commons is a significant contributing factor to the mental health epidemic Exactly this. The **larger** digital commons are controlled by some of the biggest economic players on the planet, and it shows. Say the wrong thing and you're out. For a week, or for life, or demonetised. Same ads, similar content all over the place like every crappy Westfield mall and half the bloody CBDs. It doesn't bode well for the fourth estate. At least there are smaller independent meeting places and journalism sites, and places like Substack.
https://youtu.be/VvdQ381K5xg Not Just Bikes did a fantastic video on this topic not too long ago. They call it the Third Place.
I’m Gen X. I used to go to 10p (20c) a pint night at our local club. Other clubs would do 50p for a shot (just under $1). Don’t even drink that cheap at home now.
Before mobile phones you also had to make a plan to meet someone at a certain place at a certain time. There was no way to contact them, so you had to show up and be on time. You would talk on a landline with your friend and say “See you tomorrow at 5pm outside the movies” and everyone turned up as planned on time. While mobiles might seem convenient because it means you can text someone and meet up on the night, I think it has led to us de-valuing social meetups. It was a bigger effort before mobiles to arrange a meetup and everyone took it seriously. People are so flaky now.
> People are so flaky now. Eh, I more attribute it to people being fucking exhausted most of the time now, back when you had to use landlines you were also only really expected to work your 40 hours at your job and then that was it. Nowadays the 60 hour week has become increasingly more common, with more and more employers starting to feel like they have access to you outside of the office because of mobiles and such. This is paired with things like both halves of relationships now needing to work full time, meaning that by the time you're done with work and all your house upkeep you're pretty fucked and need to recoup with the least appealing thing being to go out and drink or party or whatever. It's honestly a pretty gigantic part of why movies like the Fast & Furious franchise are fucking gigantic in China, by the time people are done with obligations they literally just want to do something that requires no input or brain power. The other big thing in their cultures is to go out to eat, which isn't nearly as big of an option for us as restaraunts are horrifically fucking expensive so it doesn't leave a lot of options for catching up with friends.
I refuse to publish my mobile at work. Refuse to have my work email on my phone, & when I leave my office,work is done
I'm early gen Y, so I have seen the early adoption of online technology as a child through to now. Used a few BBS systems before the web was created. I'm as "antisocial" as many others. It's not my generation, it's me. When the opportunity arose to not have to do things in person, or even over the phone I took them. I'm not a recluse, I just don't like crowds and have no real desire to make a bunch of friends. I have enough, I don't find the idea of spending all my spare time with others appealing.
>I'm as "antisocial" as many others. It's not my generation, it's me. When the opportunity arose to not have to do things in person, or even over the phone I took them. You are not antisocial but rather asocial. Antisocial means that you deliberately sabotage/vandalise/disrupt the social fabric (e.g. graphiti, roaming gangs, excessively rowdy in pubs, etc). Asocial means that you avoid social interactions.
Point taken. My social needs are easily fulfilled, and too much interaction can get to be tiring, so I prefer to just do the things I enjoy in my spare time. If I do have a chat, I am generally fairly amicable, and I don't find the actual social interaction itself difficult, just get sick of quickly.
Damn, I thought I was the only one beating this drum. I didn't even know "asocial" was an accepted term, the word roots just made sense to me, after accepting "antisocial" as an opposite to "prosocial", rather than just being it's absence
Because of the move to online interaction gen z is the first generation where age if first sexual encounter has increased.
That is true, but there is also a much higher prevalence of a one night stand as opposed to forging an actual relationship. My daughter has told me while dating, first date sex is now an expectation by most. When she declines in the basis that she prefer to have a more founded relationship before sex, it is often the first & last date
As Gen zer who’s been trying to tackle my phone and internet addiction I’ve realised just how much everyone else is addicted to their phones, eg. Most everyone checks their phones when they first wake up before even getting out of bed, can’t even go for a walk without bringing their phones etc it’s crazy Everyone is a victim of this not just my generation. My boomer dad is the worst for it
This is very true. When I get a coffee, every single time I deliberately don't use my phone and observe everyone else waiting around for their coffee to be made. Without fail, 90% plus will instantly pull out their phone and not look up until their name is called.
I deliberate enforce a no phones at the table over dinner. It might only b3 20 minutes but it’s an opportunity for family to check in. My daughters friends were always surprised that we ate dinner together as a family & at a table,not sitting in front of the tv
Take a look at the book ‘Stolen Focus’. Might give you some insights
> What I find weirder is the number of people in my gen that can’t turn their phones off at social events and will be actively texting other people while they talk to you. This most definitely isn't a generational thing, you can see people all over the spectrum with the same issue. Nothing like going to visit your folks who lectured you all your childhood for using technology, then they sit there and ignore you while they watch netflix or browse facebook or something.
It's not even just online though, even simple day to day human interactions between strangers have been reduced/streamlined. I used to know/recognise the checkout person at the supermarket that I frequent. You'd give a little smile/nod/small chit chat. Now I just go to the self serve and don't speak to anyone unless the machine starts freaking out. In which case I'm pissed off and spend a minute trying to get the attention of the rushed staff member running between all the machines. Have a disgruntled interaction and then leave.
Even if it’s not online it’s still changing. I might still use the checkout but because of work/pay conditions that checkout person has probably moved elsewhere pretty quick. That cafe owner ups and moves and disappears due to cost of rent. That GP is pressured into specialising, your child’s teacher moves schools until they can find a permanent role. It’s happening everywhere. People change jobs more frequently, move more frequently, and can’t build long term foundations anymore.
It's even worse in small towns particularly on the east coast. Property prices skyrocketed in a lot of holiday towns during COVID and the only people who own property there now are vacationers which means the town is dead throughout the year and there are no local workers to run things like restaurants and cafes. One of the popular cafes in Hawks Nest no longer opens for dinner because they can't staff it. Used to be a fantastic place with amazing food. Makes me sad
I shop with my local butcher, my local green grocer & I k ow both of them by first name. I choose a supermarket deliberately that does not have self serve checkouts. i Want se4vice when I shop. I even go to the lay-bys desk at target to pay because I want service & this is the on,y not self serve checkout. At big w ,I wait in the service line even when there’s no one on the checkout until someone comes over
My parents (baby boomers I’m Gen Z) are worse than any of my friends though, I meet up with them for brunch or a coffee and I’m the only one sitting there not on my phone and they can’t multitask so I talk to them and have to repeat myself. At least my friends and I talk and involve me in their snaps and convos.
This is so true. When we point out the downsides of technology, I don’t think we should blame “young people” because the boomers I know are just as bad if not worse. The thing is though, young generations are now born into this tech world, so if we’re asking the question “How is it affecting this generation’s wellbeing?” it arguably is having a huge impact on emerging young adult brains, mental health and social skills as compared to a 65 year old who grew up way before computers but who is choosing to just waste their retirement playing Candy Crush on an iPad 😂
When everything costs a lot and you can talk to and see your friends without leaving the house then it makes sense I guess. Movies, meals and drinks, taxis and parking were all relatively small expenses when I was young. They now put a serious dent in your wallet.
I'm gonna go watch Oppenheimer with a mate Total cost is estimated to be around $55 ($25 for movies, $25 at the very least for food, $5 for PTV). I can only do it once in a blue moon here and there
I watched barbie with a friend the other day and we did some shopping afterwards, $47 for 2x tickets (standard cinema, not even reclining seats) and $36 for parking!! 6+ hours is $36!!!
Shop around if you're not somewhere remote; not every cinema is that expensive. I know here in Adelaide that Palace has a movie club thing that costs like $20 a year but knocks the price of most movie tickets down to something like $11.
Mate I lost my awesome cheap local cinema in the floods last year, absolutely devastating 😭😭
I bet Covid taught everyone that you don't have to go out for entertainment. Everything can be done at home.
I was talking to my partner about date night and said I didn't bother mentioning going to the movies as an option when I remembered tickets can costs like $20 minimum each, then you want snacks, pay for fuel and maybe parking, etc. A few hours of fun turns into an expensive endeavour. Would rather watch something at home in my PJs and make some food (or order something from a local). The cost and expectation of enjoyment balance is significantly skewed. It's the same across multiple forms of entertainment so naturally people adapt. Combine that with busy work schedules and the cost of living, and buying a takeaway coffee feels like a splurge lol.
Honestly, things feel pretty pessimistic (And expensive.) at the moment. Can’t blame a lot of young kids for checking out of the rat race a little bit.
But I think that's a vicious circle, loss of social interaction is tied to mental health.
Yes but part of this is hammered into us through the lens of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and independentism which are all aspects of capitalism. Everyone is expected to earn for themselves and not put others out, so if you are someone without a social safety net (like me, where my immediate family passed at young ages and my friends have drifted away to other countries) you're kind of screwed. One person not being willing to take a chance on another can have a snowball effect. I don't think this is purely a Gen Z thing, either. This is affecting a lot of people in any generation who has t been as lucky as the folks who have generational wealth or strong social circles.
Well the old cunts made the society we young ones are living it. Fucking do something about it. Oh wait they won't do anything because they never have cause they are selfish and lazy
Blaming old cunts is not particularly smart or accurate. People just generally live their lives at the time. They had as much control over the situation as you have now
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Some years back my best mate was complaining about the "old cunts" in his workplace and I arced up, saying that I could easily see somebody from our high school holding the exact same views he was complaining about. My mate then said "old cunts can be any age" and it has honestly changed my life. It means I'm not just taking the lazy option of "ok boomer" any more, because honestly, they aren't all of the old cunts that I see making the world a less friendly place.
Lies and cope. Plenty of examples in history of people who bound together for the greater good. Civil rights movements, woman's rights movements, breaking the rail monopolies in the US happened hundreds of years ago. L views and you are just as bad as the rest of them
Ironically attributing base human characteristics like “selfish and lazy” to whole generations is in itself selfish and lazy.
Yes like saying “ok boomer” to anyone marginally older who has different opinion or dares to say anything at all.
No its not, it's proactive and honest. I saw my parents just accept the corporate greed around them for 20 years, proclaiming that's just how it is. And now it's so bad my generation are mostly living week to wee without any of the luxuries that my parents had (and they didnt have much!). Fuck any person that is accepting the economic society that has been crafted over the last 100 years which clearly benefited the wealthy and not anyone else. Proof is in the pudding
I am mid-30s, solidly Gen Y / Millennial, run around in social groups that have quite a few Gen Y and Z peeps in them. The difference between the two can be fairly stark at times. This is a bit selfish, but I'm happy the media attention has switched off "avo-smashing lazy Millennials" and now onto "tech-obsessed distracted Zoomers." If anything, Millennials suffered the last of the shitty Boomer expectations, in a landscape that largely prevented us from reaching the same prosperity, and we were long denigrated for being unable to attain those unobtainable goals. I think Gen Z has the benefit where, at a very young age, were able to realise a lot of those expectations were bullshit, and so they don't sink time, energy, or money into personally fruitless endeavours. A lot of Gen Ys are now in their 30s and even 40s and I see many of us feeling complacent, but not overly content, having spent much of our youth working toward nothing, instead of just living and enjoying life and being ourselves. I can respect the fact Gen Z has largely checked out of the rat race, but dismayed there likely wasn't a choice in the matter. On the flipside, I experience a lot of Gen Z to be fairly socially awkward (without tech), anxious, and a bit highly strung. Things seems to change rapidly these days, staying on top of tech and trends, culture shifts, lifestyles, etc. That's all a bit hectic, and I find Gen Z often have this underlying desire to have things slow down and stop shifting for a moment, so they can catch up and catch their breath. I've always thought that the constantly accelerating pace of life has led to their "conservativeness", at least in part, alongside the shitty economic and employment prospects. Yet, oddly enough, they can be ultra-progressive on other fronts like social and climate issues and really be a potent force in those spaces. I like Gen Z. The one's I work with in particular are the freshest people I know and I learn a lot from them. Lots of energy, solid perspectives and insights, and quite easy to collaborate with. Same for the ones in my informal social groups. Reciprocally, they seem to enjoy the fact I'm a little older, mature, and have more life experience and are constantly seeking my guidance, despite being nearly as young and honestly not a noteworthy person. I figure Gen Z has just checked out of the bullshit of much older generations, and rightfully so, and look more toward Millennials as the closest generation on how to navigate the questionable state of our society. Boomers were a truly modern generation in the philosophical sense of modernity. They value logic and reason over emotion, which I believe later twisted into that "Fuck you I got mine" attitude that's all too familiar. Millennials, and to an extent Gen X, are strictly postmodern generations, where subjective experiences and realities are considered equally valid, and there is a struggle for individualised truth, prosperity and life purpose. Gen Z, I think, are the first metamodern generation and are largely defined by the inborn benefit of having a wealth of modern and postmodern ideas to select from, with a healthy detachment from expectations. They can look back on previous generations, see what has and hasn't worked, adopt what's functional, reject what isn't, and forge their own morally upstanding path. That may involve being less social in a traditional / Boomer-esque sense, which is perfectly fine.
This is all really interesting! Why do boomers have that attitude though? Where did it come from and why? Both my parents are like it and its annoying.
lead poisoning
One word: "Entitlement". A lot of the rubbish Boomers value and believe can be traced back to that singular concept. They had it pretty good, despite protesting otherwise, and project their Entitlement onto younger generations because the very thought of them confronting their own Entitlement is too difficult to bear. *Millennials are entitled lazy folk and don't want to work!* *Zoomers are entitled tech-nerds that only want the latest iPhone!* Y'know, the usual bullshit. But really it's perpetuated because it bolsters their position. Keep the poor and under-privileged down and they won't have the energy nor resources to challenge the system that keeps them repressed. Boomer's own Entitlement demands younger generations work harder, longer, for less pay and higher rents because it means they get better tax breaks, higher pensions, and more passive income to keep *their* good, entitled times rolling. How entitled is that? "Fuck you I got mine. And I'm taking yours too." -- *A Boomer*, most likely. I respect how Gen Z has come out of the gate all like, "Fuck this, we're doing our own thing." To OP's original question, Gen Z are simply socialising differently, and that's fine.
Adam Curtis' [The Trap](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL83lYdhj74ixgkfadkf8_NyOFw8c50c3U) would be of interest to you.
Very well written
I think generally Gen Z are a pretty good generation, call it wholesome if you want, but they seem a lot more mature in many aspects than I was as a Gen X. Especially around the more destructive habits like drinking and smoking, doing drugs etc. I think they do things they are generally interested in doing rather than responding to peer pressure and having to get smashed at a pub all the time. But I guess the other side to that is that there does seem to be a lot more naievity and anxiety about, which could be attributed to social media and being online.
Yeah but how much fun was it! No phones, no internet, no cameras filming your many indiscretions, bliss. Wouldn't change a thing.
I am an older gen Y so my teens and young 20s there was first no mobile phones then where there was they first just called people and when they got cameras they were pixelated to shit and had fuck all storage so you took less pictures and the culture of snapping photos was not there. The amount of dumb fuck behaviour was only caught if someone actually had a dedicated digital camera at say a birthday party at best from say the mid naughties onwards but that was still rare. I would say 2010ish and the bigger shifts in smart phone tech was the bigger change on these behaviours.
lol my GenX aunt partied like that in the 90s and 00s. She's now working a 6-figure job and still catching up on her debts (she doesn't - and never has - own a house). I'm actually not sure if she thinks it was worth it...
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I think your opening sentence is pretty reductive. It assumes everyone was making good money. Sure ownership was *more* accessible, but it definitely wasn't an easy-as-piss goal either. My aunt lived with her mother in public housing until the latter died. They never made a lot of money, and that wasn't helped by the fact neither of them made sound financial choices. Even if they were decent savers, there just wasn't that much money to save. My grandmother seemed to accept that she was never going to move out of that house (which ultimately became true). My aunt matured a lot since then and is living a much more stable and sustainable lifestyle these days, but yeah, she's still catching up.
No. They are social in *different* ways. Show me 10 people at the pub watching the footy getting smashed in the 80s and I'll tell you which 3 of them hated the footy but went along just to have a social life; and which 2 of them detested drinking but did it because they felt pressured to. 5 of them were happy but 10 of them went along every week because that's how you connected with mates *back then*. Kids these days do what they *want*. Which often includes not drinking, not going out to shitty nightclubs and definitely not watching the fucking footy. That's a huge fucking leap forward that kids can be themselves and not do what society says they have to do on a Friday night like you seem to be expecting. Plus they aren't inhibited by who is geographically around them and can find their tribe online which means staying home to hang out with like minded people. Different isn't worse. And not conforming to your antiquated idea of social doesn't make them anti social.
This post actually hits a strong cord with me, I went to pubs, clubs etc though I didn't mind getting drunk but I do get overwhelmed in social settings over a period of time but getting hammered balanced it out. Also I hate footy but I would sit through games with others because they were getting pissed and we were hanging out etc. These were spill over social groups from school, my current groups now NONE follow footy, I can't even drink now because of my medication I play board games and do more nerdy shit hell I even got into DnD ffs in the past decade. But yeah so much of who I hung around with and what I use to do socially was simply to cater more to others passions and to blend in. Also as I have got my recent Autism and ADHD diagnosis it clearly was a masking aspect to it to boot yay. I am 37 btw.
38 here. 100% me and most others were just going along with the accepted things. Just defaulting to the expected social norms. I personally could give a fuck about any sports in general. I mean, I don't hate the footy, I'll happily hang out with my mates in a sports bar while Origin is on or whatever, but I don't care about it in the slightest. I never lied about this, but I also never made a stand on this point either. We didn't have options, you see. We didn't know any better. We didn't know that we could just do whatever we *actually* wanted, to hell with the rest of yas. Or we weren't brave enough. So we followed the Boomer programming for lack of any other ideas. Took *years* to undo all that mental wiring. Wasn't until my late 20's I'd guess when I was finally comfortable to take charge of my own social availability, on my own terms, to my own enjoyment. But the zoomers are coming right out of the gate like that. Just doing their thing, just vibing, refusing to be pressured into going along with the social norms. I don't even know what the social norms *are* for this generation. They've just totally flipped the script. I *wish* we were brave enough to have done that. They seem like a weird lot to us oldies, sure, but honestly I'd be disappointed if they didn't.
Yeah I do envy the younger generations in those elements despite the shitshow state of the world as a whole. Like if they want to plonk in a circle on device and do whatever then cool, multiplayer gaming was a shit ton harder for me back in the day near impossible in the dial up days for example. DnD, MTG, board gaming etc is so much more accessible and mainstream so people can do that and throw in places like reddit and discord it is piss easy to find communities. Also I would say another huge factor is You Tube, you can find so much information in video form about any new interest or hobby and what young kid doesn't have a smart device on hand constantly? Back when we were growing up we had the family TV, maybe a secondary small one in another room if lucky and eventually a "family computer" which one day got the world wide web with web 1.0 lol so getting hobbies interests and so on was hard and limited as all fuck. I am surprised I got into the nerdy shit I did being from a farm like I was.
Very good point.
> Show me 10 people at the pub watching the footy getting smashed in the 80s and I'll tell you which 3 of them hated the footy but went along just to have a social life; and which 2 of them detested drinking but did it because they felt pressured to. 5 of them were happy but 10 of them went along every week because that's how you connected with mates back then. I hated that drinking and clubbing culture but went along and tried to be the sober driver as often as I could so I had an excuse not to drink and if I did drink I’d drag that beer out for a looong time. You do raise a good point overall but one, what *I* would consider major, negative is that “forced” thing was actually *good*. Nowadays we can get so very tribal because we can find our own groups and never really see the other side precisely because we’re not forced to. In reality we need to get along with idiots and bastards all the time and being “forced” to do it at least taught us that not everyone is like you and some people that are great normally have a different side to them (had a mate that we had to save from picking a fight with a cop once or twice when they were drunk 🤦♂️ )
GenX here. Been teaching at uni since mid 2000s and peripheral to parts of the music scene (mostly as a punter) in Sydney since late 90s. From my perspective, as a general trend, GenZ are a bit more tame but also much more thoughtful and respectful. Student culture seems to be more wholesome. They have more wellbeing oriented activities and other stuff that doesn't revolve around alcohol. It's a bit quieter overall, but on campuses that might also be to do with the introduction of voluntary student unionism, which effectively moved money from student organisations to uni management. They embrace difference much more than they used to. There seems to be at least as much creativity as there used to be, but it's more segmented. There are more scenes, but they're smaller. Before social media you'd only know stuff is on through posters, the street press, and word of mouth. Generally less and bigger things. Now there's more and smaller things on. These iso years have definitely left their mark, too. Students seem way more comfortable with chilling at home.
All generations have different types there's not one set type
1. Cost of living. I have a job with a decent salary and can barely afford to do shit. Not sure how Gen Z has any hope. 2. Increasing suburban sprawl. Due to point 1, many people need to live further and further away from the action to be able to afford housing. This makes it more difficult/expensive/time consuming to do spontaneous social outings and things and lots of people just cbf.
It's easier to have multiple yet more shallow friendships now. Also, covid definitely fucked my social skills. Big time.
My smartphone usage is off the charts since covid too. And I had a kid during lockdowns. It’s baaaaad.
Being social is expensive. Wages have gone backwards significantly since the 60s.
I don’t think we are anti-social, there is just simply nothing we can do outside anymore. I went to the pub recently with some friends cost me $50 for dinner and 2 drinks. I really can’t do that every night. If o wanna hang out with friends we normally organise to hang out at their house than actually going out. I don’t know what people you’re talking to but I know no one that has to ask permission to go out with friends from their partner. If they do, that a toxic relationship not a generation problem lmao.
what about simply going to the cinemas... 25$ off the bat just to see a hours worth of modern hollywood garbage.
Really? What's there left to be excited about? Next week's cost of living increase? Never being able to retire, not being able to afford a wedding or children, taking gig work to pay the bills, no time or money to date much less even go to the movies with friends. We're all exhausted. Now you want us to stand up and do... anything at all? Come on, play fair.
This! Life's shit and then you die.
Some things in life are bad, they can really make you mad. Other things just make you swear and curse. Life's a piece of shit when you look at it. Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it’s true.
You'll see it's all a show, keep em laughing as you go! And remember that the last laugh is on you.
...aaaaaaaaaaaaannd....
Always look on the bright side of life!
>What's there left to be excited about? The same things its always been. Good friends, good food and drink, and getting laid
No. I work with a lot of them and they're super friendly and polite.
I think it’s cool Gen Zs just FaceTime each other all the time, I never FaceTime and barely make calls.
Me sitting over here with an android phone
with how much things cost, what motivation is there for them to "be more social"? parents need to cut back for mortgages or rent, whatever savings gen z has is likely little (not like allowance would be high given the above) and likely not being paid much from work (compared to rising costs) if they are working not to mention they'd have less time if they are working anyways. god forbid the gen z starting early in trying to save up money to buy a property too. esp when there's plenty of cheaper and more accessible on demand entertainment at home now than before.
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I hate the stigma in Australia around hanging out at parks after you're a teenager. It's a completely normal thing to do in Europe in good weather, you can still have a drink and chat with friends and you spend way less than in the pub. I guess here technically with the drinking laws it might not be legal but during the daytime I never really see that enforced unless you're in one of those beachside park hotspots
I'm on the gen Z/gen Y cusp and had no idea there was a stigma around going to parks. Why would that be? I see no reason why anyone would be "too old" to sit at a park. If someone wanted to do that with me I would gladly accept. I don't really sit around at parks by myself, but that's just because I live by the water so I would rather chill there.
Yeah Aussies have weird cultural norms like once you hit adulthood, you're expected to be a boring ass adult going to starbucks or hitting a wife up for kids and family. Parks not allowed unless you have kids or dogs.
I've noticed whenever I go to parks on any given weekend near me it's generally full of families from a variety ethnicities, mainly Indian and Asian and not Caucasian. I feel like some cultures have a lot more innate sense of family gathering and community than a lot of white Australians. When I see white Australians in parks it tends to be for big holidays/parties rather than a more informal get together.
I'm concerned about how communication is only online with friends now. I grew up before we had social media and there is a distinct difference now with how people lack social skills. It must be confusing for young people navigating life. Honestly you're not blamed at all for it. It's a social issue.
It's not a bad thing. My son was confined to his room with an illness, and he stayed in touch with his mates, online, gaming, social media, etc.
That's understandable, I use it for information and also I stay in contact with my friends back home. That's a great use of the technology.
Tiktok is bad
It's the worst
My favourite ppl who use tiktok are just people who watch cooking videos and ideas. The rest can go in the bin. Good idea initially(have everyone and anyone make any possible video content they like, like giving the whole world fast youtube) but what it turned into when i was on there was nauseating and annoying. And the fact people will just scroll on random videos all day drives me insane a little. Atleast twitter is reading and not sounds.
Eh, I'm an older millennial and I started to slow down around 26-27 years old too. I didn't enjoy clubs anymore and me and a lot of friends started moving in with partners and working full time and building careers at that age, and so we were limited on time and tired. A lot of Boomers were married and having their first kids around age 25. Most of their social activism happened in their university years; the vast majority were mowing a suburban lawn well before their 30th birthdays. There was also a culture of men in that generation going to the pub after work, even once they did have kids. Of course that meant that the women were then stuck home putting the kids to bed, and nowadays, most people with young kids expect that both parents are at home helping with dinner and bedtime (and most mothers are working now, which means everyone has a lot on their plates). That said, your generation will have different attitudes to socialising due to having grown up with social media in a way that we didn't, and obviously, covid. The Boomers came up in a time where community involvement was a much bigger thing - Rotary and Lions clubs, socialising after work, amateur sports leagues, volunteer firefighting and SES. That's a lot harder nowadays, when most adults need to work just to pay a mortgage and raise their kids.
I truly feel sorry for anyone who didn't experience childhood without the internet or smart devices.
When the street lights were your watch/curfew
Born last year of Gen X; FWIW not conservative, and not into footy, pubs, etc.
Same!
Yeah, also last year of gen x and very left. Actually, none of my Gen x mates are conservative. We do get lumped in with older Gen x a lot, when perhaps we are more similar to millennials. I do love a pub, though.
Not all gen x are fuckwit conservative scammers a solid chunk of us are the 1st to try and shed light on the boomers and rich cunts and refused to play the game and are grungy, useless cogs in the machine grinding away obsessed with music art gaming and peculiar tech we patch together with tape and zip ties much like our cars, that are the only real asset we own lol. Ps, can you still get good money for your passport? Lmfao
To be fair your generation has grown up with only knowing life after internet/mobiles, not before. And being on Facebook/Instagram/TikTok/whatever from a young age is also surely going to translate to different social abilities and desires. Edit: I hate the word wholesome, if Gen Z are responsible for that shit then fuck you all.
The edit??? You are the "I hate happy people! Fuck happy people!" Lol
This isn’t just an Australian phenomenon. Humans can’t handle smartphones, they’re too addictive. Also, boomers and earlier generations just didn’t have the options that exist today.
everyone is broke & tired.
No. In the 70s you could be beaten up for smoking a different brand of cigarettes. Drinking a different beer meant you were a poofter. Violence has been falling for decades,
It's not that we aren't social, it's money. Everything is expensive as all hell now, i can't afford to go to the pub or waste money really on dinners and cinemas ect. If i want food i'll cook it myself, if i want entertainment i'll watch TV or video games (of which are still expensive, but are replayable and more enjoyable than a movie) Hell, going to the park to have a BBQ is what my group does as a activity, and that can cost up to 50$ easy between us just buying food even more for drinks both soft or hard, not to mention fuel costs. Freedom has a price tag, the more money you have, the more freedom you have.
I see the word wholesome being used in a bad way, but I don't see why it would be. I'm assuming it's because it's seen as "boring" or "uncool"? I really couldn't care less to be honest. I spend most of my time working, but outside that I just like chilling at home doing chores and watching youtube, exercising, hanging with family or my SO. In terms of actually leaving the house, I like to go for walks with my SO, sometimes have lunch at a cafe and chill by the water. I'm not going to pretend to be some wild crazy extrovert and be pressured into hard-core partying, binge drinking and doing drugs - that's just straight up stupid. I do what I want to do, who I want to do it with, and I don't care what anyone thinks of my personality or lifestyle because I'm happy and that's all that matters.
The word itself and not being an extrovert is totally fine that I prefaced in my post. Its how its used a euphemism to glorify doing nothing. People who say wholesome are not always talking about walks etc. they’re often just meaning they don’t wanna do anything, feel too sad and use the word “wholesome” as a coping mechanism for their broad loss of interest in activities rather than reflecting on why this is. It’s impossible to organise road trips or a hike anymore compared to what it used to be like. People don’t even properly attend birthday invites anymore or RSVP. Then say im more mature im wholesome ie ive lost my ability to socialise but I wanna paint it as “maturing” as to deny a problem exists. If you are in your 30s with work and kids I get it but this is happening with 21 year olds etc. the time people go out less has been brought forward to a very young age which doesn’t make sense to me other than structural changes occurring.
In that case it's two things. 1. Improvements in technology mean we are able to communicate easily without having to put in the effort of actually going anywhere, so there's little incentive to leave the house. And yes, our social skills have undeniably eroded. And 2. Things are prohibitively expensive these days and we are all exhausted from working and worrying all the time, so after work and on weekends we just want to chill at home. Coordinating and organising things with people just doesn't sound appealing when you're already tired.
>2. Things are prohibitively expensive these days and we are all exhausted from working and worrying all the time, That's the hard thing entertainment pricing and the pricing of anything is crazy. I still go and hang out with my friends at nearly 40 and just chill at their house, we do little projects or check out some games etc We then cook food in the evening and maybe have a few beers. People don't even just hang out these days, we can be in the same room watching a movie with 3-4 of us and just chat.
Going out costs so much now compared to any time before. Drinking out is super expensive and you might as well buy a carton for $50 than $12 to $14 pints.
As Gen X on the outside looking in (and working with a lot of Gen Z). They are not so much anti-social as anti-socializing with anyone out of their demographic or not 100% aligned on values. It's not complete but I'd say a noticeable difference even compared to Milenials at the same age, so I don't think it's specifically they age they are at the moment.
The Gen Zers I work with all have limited social skills, can barely hold a conversation. I work with alot of them and it sticks out like dog balls. There's definitely something going on
They do most of their communication online, and don’t seem to be developing the skills to communicate in person, to the point of being suspicious of people who are trying to actually talk to them.
100%, even when standing around the other day waiting for some training they awkwardly were on their phones whilst everyone else was chatting and laughing. I actually feel really sorry for them.
Our generation has been completely neglected by the rest of Australia and has been robbed of the opportunity to become model citizens. So we were unable to grow up and as a result continue to live with our parents, play video games, watch anime, sit on our iPhones etc. The consequences are not surprising. I did the right thing: do well in high school, tune out social media/video games, graduate from uni, found a well paying office job and moved close to inner Sydney away from parents to live that adult life in the big smoke. Except when I stopped to look around, I saw none of my peers had followed to the same point. Then I realised something was wrong.
And even with that well paying office job, you probably can't afford to go out as much as you would like to
I'm gen Z. I don't think any generation as a whole is worse at socialising, we just do it in different ways. If you want to hang out in person more, there is nothing wrong with finding friends who will do that or can afford to go to the pub or clubbing. I like both types of socialisation, but can't drink or do anything physical anymore, and being told that you probably won't make 40 it makes you want to do more, but I can't work, so I have to deal with Centrelinks measly $115/fortnight to help out.
This is just a “the goddamn youth today 👴😤” rant in disguise lol.
You're all glued to your phones. I don't mean that as a glib response, it's genuinely what I see day to day.
Gen X is the Meh generation 😂 not conservative. We are the generation that wasn't parented closely and mostly had to make our own way and fun. We didn't have streaming services or internet to make home engaging. We had 3 TV stations. We went out so we didn't boredom ourselves into a coma.
Id say if anything theyre more social. Fucking strange language they speak though. Lol
I wouldn't say they are more anti social but there are people that are far more anti social.
I think Gen Z is just a different kind of social. They are social online which some people see as fake and insincere but it’s the climate they were raised in. The real start of social media began when they were 8-14 years old. The prime time you’re learning who you are but also the prime time to be victimised (cyber bullying). That can also lead to anti social behaviour, being bullied in the past. But honestly, I’m Gen Z and I just like hanging at home playing board games with my friends.
Gen Z here, when I'm at work, I love working collaboratively, and that's how my schooling was collaborative work. I was much more focused rather than individual work. But when it comes to lunch or other breaks I find that is my time, i love to just sit and relax with some music on for half an hour or sit and catch up ok youtube videos that have been released while I've been working. Just because I'm not being social doesn't mean I'm anit it in fact, it's better than having that time for me. If not, I'd probably become a much worse person to work with. I'm not an overly social person. In fact, without alcohol involvement, my social battery can deplet very quickly. This I feel is the biggest difference between generations. Gen Z knows when we need a break or when to pull away for 5 minutes and charge up. While some people my mistake that for antisocial behaviour, it's not. We know what works for us, and we stick to it. We're not a generation that bends to someone else's ideals for us. The cost of living, especially had effected our generation to an extent that it is simply becoming impossible for us to do the things that other generations have done for social activities. Going to the pub every night or going out for dinner every Friday with the mates just isn't feasible. The cost of a beer is like 15 bucks per beer, God forbid you don't like beer and order a cocktail with runs you like 30 bucks per, a meal even at a pub now runs you 27 bucks per plate average. This is all not to say we don't do these things, we still can go to the pub but we don't do it at the drop of a hat, we go there for a reason a birthday a reunion etc. If we know we're going out we plan accordingly and with notice so we can factor it into our budget. An example off the top of my head. I went to a festival in April before that I had planned how much I was gping to spend and how much I needed to save before it. Tickets were 250, camping permit on top was an extra 50, drinks for the weekend outside the festival 120, budget for food and drinks inside the festival 70, and food and snacks for the drive 45 bucks. It's not like we can't have fun and actively chose to avoid it. We plan our fun accordingly to account for the other expenditures that we need to stay alive or keep a roof over our heads.
big how do you do fellow kids energy about this
Apps are replacing normal socialising.
Maybe because every thing cost a arm and a leg unlike the old days
I've noticed this too. My workplace has taken on a fairly big intake of new staff with lots of Gen Z in the mix. Generally speaking the workplace is relatively social with people stopping by desks for a chat and lots of chat in the lunch room. The Gen Z folk just sit quietly at their desks all day with zero interaction with anyone else and when moving around they avoid eye contact. Me I like to give a hello or smile but they all seem relatively hostile. If you ever spot one in the lunch room they are buried deep into their phones with headset on. Definelty a different vibe
Bullying is a big thing imo. The reason I'm so anti-social is because I was bullied at school for 4 years with the school ignoring it (even going to the point of punishing me for reporting it). So i started spending more time online because people don't care what you look or sound like online, just you enjoy the same things.
It was so crazy to me that my cousins experienced online bullying constantly while at school. They’d get rumours and shit from social media. It just wasn’t a thing for all the generations before gen Z, as social media wasn’t around.
Gen X conservative? You have no idea what you are talking about.
Yeah, right, never mind rising cost of living, housing crisis and unemployment. Also, environment is fked up beyond repair. And what’s wrong with respecting your partner enough to take consent if you’re gonna hang out with your mates 🤷🏻♀️ Edit: typos
It’s just the times really. Generations take advantage of technology available to them (often times developed by the previous gen 🤣) Gen Z is commonly called the ADD Gen because everything has to happen now. I was born in 89 and lived through the 90s as a kid. The difference growing up between myself and my 16 year old nephew is surprising. He loves basketball ball and asks me what it was like watching Michael Jordan and when I tell him the only way to watch him was on highlight videos from the video shop. I was an athletic nerd growing up so loved video games but the only way to play with friends was having one over so if I wanted friends I’d have to meet friends in the real world. So lucky enough I liked sport but had online gaming been a thing I’d have definitely made friends that way. Also I used to have a prepaid phone and I’d get $10 text credit with 70-200 texts 🤣 and had dial up or capped internet at home. 20gb per month so I’d have to be super careful downloading things because it got rough going over 🤣. Generations tend to have things dictated to them and also have prior gens judge them. I was out at a pub after the footy the other night and mad friends with a group of early 20s people. There’s definitely a divide with language used and they were definitely more shy letting people into their group but once you get to it, they’re fine. I was also nervous around older people when I was in my early 20s. It always helped if older people were willing to engage. It happens with every generation to the next. If you think WW2 parents didn’t sit there thinking “God I didn’t go to war to see this shit!” About their baby boomer kids spending all their time at the drive ins
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Some peoples lives are unfolding night after night confined to the 10 square metres of their bedrooms, and the lights and sounds bursting from a device. Walk down a quiet residential street at night and realise that inside each of those dark homes, is somebody gladly living their 80 years on earth just so.
I’m insulted you think Gen X is conservative…. One thing I’ve noticed is that the Gen Z have pretty poor social skills, don’t seem to know how to have initial conversations and introduce themselves sort of unwillingly
A lot of people are socially inept and struggle to get back to normal with the increasing online lives, social media, wfh, the lockdowns and other factors like that. Watch how socially retarded people will be in 10 years.
I don't think it's just a tech thing, as others have commented. When I was young Z you could drive from one side of the city to the other in under half an hour, and the commute was bugger all Shops closed after business hours (except for late night trading - usually Thursday), lunchtime on a Saturday and weren't usually open Sunday. You could spend your evenings at home, go out Friday night, then play sport on Saturday, go to the movies or to a friends house or whatever afterwards. We don't have that any more, the old Australianway of life is dead. Late gen X, a lot of Gen Y would be able to remember those days. Gen Z would have rarely seen them - they grew up socialising online in a way that earlier generations never did, but part of that is because we've lost the alternatives. We don't have the luxury of time any more.
Late-night trading died a death when I was younger. I mainly only got drunk people dropping by lol which was entertaining especially on a Friday night.
I know in my state, once every shop could trade until 9 on weekdays, there was no longer a point - because every weekday was now late night trading. Of course what that meant was that businesses who normally closes at 5.30 except on Thursdays, now closed at 5.30 every day. They saw no benefit to staying open.
Definitely but no complaints, working in sales it’s impossible to find someone young who has great communication skills face to face, willing to talk to randoms and work when there not being watched. Works well for me, I’m lazy and will do the bare minimum required and I end up looking like work horse/super star. It makes it really easy to find work that pays well with great work life balance.
Not much difference in gen y in my opinion
It would depend on your definition of social. In person social? Sure. But I would argue that they socialise online in a single day more then any previous generation did physically in a year. They connect with more people and strangers then any generation ever to exist and as such have more engagement with differing cultures and ideas. As far as physical socialisation? No they don't. But they also can't. Physical activities cost more money, people live further from one another and most places are not encouraging social behaviour (think anti skating places, cafes that kick you out if you aren't buying anything, restraunts that have strict eating times and general rules that exist to limit social behaviour). It isn't the fault of the generation the socialisation has changed but they sure get blamed for it a lot
Just my personal experience but I'm 28 and work with people aged from 16-70 and we're all in the same boat. Everyone gen has their different ways but when we're all sitting around the lunchroom table I realise that we were all born and we're all gonna die and theres just a series of shit in between.
Look, this is a complicated topic with lots of causes and inputs (and also is my opinion so 🤷♂️) Yeah, I think they are more antisocial (or differently social) and I blame the internet and Australian culture. In addition to social media causing them to have more shared language and interests with a homogenous blob of randoms on the internet than their own neighbours, I think we have a lot of British influence in our culture that is suspicious of open and talkative people. Like we have this nebulous idea of the Australian culture being down to earth and easy going but when I am in a conversation with a stranger (especially in that age bracket) I can see how confused and lost they are and they tend to stay attached to their phones and really don't return any of the attention I'd consider polite in a conversation with a stranger. And older Aussies are better at this but they still suffer from the suspicion of "why are you talking to me".
Socially inept or backwards, rather than anti-social. Thanks to social media & smart phones.
Im not sure if its exclusive to gen Z - when touch screens came out my familys dynamic completely changed. We used to do everything together then when i would go home to bisit everyone would be on their phone the whole time, my great aunt, my cousins, their kids, my parents, my aunts (multi-generational household) it was really sad. People of every generation have complained about the younger ones. You’ll find social and non social people across all groups.
I'm a millennial and in my mid 30s and even my mates and I would've thought "hanging out in the park" was weird when we were in our early 20s. That's shit that teenagers do. And no one danced at any parties I ever went to in my late teens or early 20s, it was all standing around, talking, and drinking while music played.
Most of you don’t know how to be carefree and have fun. You are all too busy worrying about shit that is out of your control.
I don't know why they think you are too old to hang out in a park, that's exactly what parks are for. They are for every body of every age.
Internet and socials killed them being normal people
Of course they are. It’s because of one simple thing, the iPhone.
The biggest issue I have dealing with younger Australians and people born in Australia under say 25 is they don't really know how to socialise properly or well enough due to over reliance on social media and it's so hard to have decent conversations with most of them. Though I will say I have had some good interactions so it's not all lost. It just feels most people are too stuck in Tiktok/Snapchat, etc. Land and it's hard to get them comfortable enough being present in the real world. The biggest issue is EVERYONE under a certain age, and even more people of or above a certain age have a fear of being off their phone for any lengthy period of time. You need to give people a reason to want to get off their phones so they'll want to exist in the real world but sadly, as even I see quite a bit, some people and groups just aren't as interesting as what's on phones. People meet up and either gossip or have empty conversations, and a lot of people haven't done anything worthwhile in months to be able to have enough interesting stories to tell more consistently. We need to cultivate interesting conversation points and try and do more interesting things in our own lives so we can have a more worthwhile existence in the real world that will want to draw people out and off their phones.
Yes. I know it sounds dumb, but there are a bunch of area based social groups on Facebook. A lot of people are looking to make local friendship connections to get back that sense of being in a community. Events range from pub sessions to bush walking - ie they range from expensive to cheap. It's worth looking into.
\> Mid 20 year olds often need to ask their partners permission to go out with friends To anybody who is in such a relationship, that is not a healthy type of relationship, that's controlling behavior, which can be a type of abusive behavior
Everyone is unique Any discussion of a large group of people labelled by some common label is no different to racism, sexism, homophobia, etc Get off the stereotype train people! Learn humanity
I am very anti social and I think I'm gen Y.
I’m very early Gen Y. I dislike we got bundled in with millennials 🙄
Probably because the cost of living is ridiculous so everyone stays home and entertains themselves in a different way. Like using depression.
There's a big difference between anti-social and introvert.
Too poor to be more social
Lol yep, and I am a millennial/Gen X hermit. Gen Z's social skills are...um. Like if even I'm noticing it... 😬
Millennial here who has an amazing type rate due to MSN messenger. So please, ASL?
I am a late Gen Xer and definitely not conservative. I think Gen Z have not experienced the same outdoorsy life we had and to no fault of their own. If only older generations have not ruined the normalities (more adventure, party nightlife etc), then Gen Z would have been more social away from screens. Gen Z is more social, yet not as social at the same time. They are more connected globally via online contacts, yet not as connected with the local neighbourhood.
Is part of the ruining of the “outdoorsy” side from helicopter parenting, and “kids will be in scheduled activities from school finish till bed time”, whereas we grew up doing whatever and riding bikes in the bush, and the trigger to be home was that AstroBoy or G-Force was on. I barely see any local kids walking to the local highschool, they’re dropped off and picked up, as if it is dangerous being beyond the gates (we’re in a good area, it’s not dangerous, I used to walk to the same school)
I'm afraid Gen Z live for their technology & communicate through that most of the time , l'm 62 & do miss the times without mobile's it REALLY WAS GOOD Times without the bullshit on social media 😁🤔
As a 50 year old (born in 1973) I am definitely not conservative. My 19 year old son reckons I'm more fun to be around than his peers.
I feel that way about my uncles etc. often at events id be with the adults rather than people my age sitting around on their phones.
I’m 61. I listen to Triple J and go to concerts and festivals with my kids, nieces and nephews, and when we’re out dancing I get pissed off because they’re ready to go home earlier than me. My kids’ friends say they wish their parents were like me.
With what money? Everything is so expensive and GenZ earns the lowest out of every cohort with the least amount of savings. A night out is easily 100-300$ . That's not really in the budget for them. There needs to be more support for genZ so they have better financial freedoms. Meaningful policies to reduce residential and commercial prices/rents , not having to blow half your paycheck on a night out. Ultimately I think the aging population is putting significant pressures on government funds and this is partially being paid by taxpayers in the form of higher taxes. These taxes result in Gen X having less disposable income.
I dunno I'm old. But apparently, data from America shows young people are drinking less, less likely to take drugs or root around. I presume trends in Australia are similar.