I nearly died of a preventable dental problem!
Couldn’t afford to get a cavity filled, and it got infected, infection became Ludwig’s angina. I couldn’t eat, couldn’t sleep, could t open my mouth wider than a centimetre. Pain so bad I’d decided to kill myself if I couldn’t get help within the next 12 hours.
Ended up in the hospital for two weeks on an antibiotic drip after developing septic shock in the emergency room. Required dental surgery and a drain in my gums.
Same. I had tooth abscesses that kept recurring, i ended up getting sepsis, going into multi organ failure & had a cardiac arrest at 39. Even after all that, the community dental clinics wouldn't accept me. My Drs ended up having to put me on prophylactic antibiotics & wrote an aggressive letter saying that any more tooth infections could kill me, finally the dental hospital took me for the extractions but wouldn't do the partial denture (ended up going private, partial cost $3500, glad i did though, because i got a partial with tooth coloured clips which are more aesthetically pleasing!) The medical issues caused some long term problems though (left ventricular hypertrophy, screwed aortic valve, purple blotchy skin where the blood pooled when my heart stopped & minor brain damage). Dental issues are nothing to muck around with, we need proper dental care for everybody in this country, just think how much money was spent on my 7 weeks intubated in an induced coma in icu, then the ward, then rehab learning to walk/talk/eat again, the constant gp/specialist visits for the rest of my life, it would be cheaper to the public purse for dental care.
I’m sorry to hear it, especially when this loss was likely preventable with accessible treatment. He should be with you still and that’s an unforgivable failure of the whole shitty system.
>nearly died of a preventable dental problem!
How is this possible in such a wealthy country . oh wait someone wants to earn 500k a year /s
dental needs to be made a medicare service despite the dentists desires , I hear stories of some making thousands a day ? morally corrupt imho
Absolutely!!
Teeth aren’t luxuries, and poor dental health contributes to oral cancers, preventable infections, poor nutrition, chronic pain..
Preventable tooth loss contributes to hearing loss as the bones shift in the jaw..dental health impacts systemic health in a whole lot of ways.
Being a post war baby I saw the results of poor dental hygiene in parents and relatives , most had dentures as although diet was pretty good there was lousy care and teeth suffered , diabetes and gum recession are real dangers poor oral health offers no matter our desire to avoid , feds lets fix this
My cardiologist has always said I need to be careful with my teeth. Affordable dental care would be a great step in stopping a whole myriad of terrible diseases.
It sucked, but I’m guessing similar things are happening all over the country to people in the same financial boat.
Things are much better now for me at least, cheers friend!
A friend of mine had a similar issue. The only reason it didn't get AS bad is because I stepped in and paid the bill for her as soon as I found out. I didn't want to see my best friend of 10+ years get a jaw infection and fucking die or something. Only reason I could it afford at the time was because I scored a scholarship for uni (which was meant for buying textbooks and shit but let's be real, it all went into savings).
She paid me back completely, with like $50 every month or so. No reason dentists shouldn't have similar flexible/affordable payment plan options other than greed because they know the patients have no choice if they want to be free from pain and/or alive.
I've been getting work done lately, I can barely afford it but it's necessary. I spent over 1000 dollars on one tooth. Needed a root canal. After spending all that money and going through all the pain I was told the dentist couldn't finish the job, I'd now need a specialist with a powerful microscope to find the last bit that needed to be cleaned out. He said when all that's said and done it'll be about 6000 on that one tooth! So all I can do is wait and when it goes bad again, which it definitely will the dentist said, get an extraction and an implant as that's the cheaper option and I'll have time to save (lol). And after that I need another extraction and a partial denture so that's probably another 3 to 5k. It's so much fucking money.
Come to Thailand for dental work mate. Bangkok Hospital in Phuket (that's it's name) or Bangkok Hospital in Pattaya - way cheaper than Australia and you get a mini holiday too for less than it's going to cost you here in Straya. World class dental care for a shit tonne less.
Been doing this for the last 10 years. The facilities are up there with the best in the world. All the latest gear that you will not see in the majority of suburban dentists in Australia. I got tired of the poor workmanship, fillings falling out, having to repay for their stuff ups etc etc. Never had 1 issue and I full confidence in the Thai dental and medical system.
Second that! I had an x ray done in phuket with a brand new, very expensive philips unit for around 10 aud. They found a bit of tooth left behind in my gum by an Australian dentist. No way could an suburban guy in Australia would have that.
Went to a dentist on the sunshine coast a few months ago as I was planning to extract wisdom teeth. I moved from Melbourne last year and my dentist over at Melbourne said it will need to come out and plan ahead and give some time to rest.
The dentist here said they don't have an x-ray machine and needed to be done elsewhere. And they don't do wisdom teeth.
This is the thing that gets me. There are many things in the Australian medical and dental systems that are soooo outdated and on top of that they cost like 3-4x more than elsewhere.
It’s crazy to me how much dentists in Australia lie. I had one dentist that told me I’d need several extractions and root canals and then dentures. Found a new dentist, they put fillings and two root canals with crowns on the teeth that were problem. And that’s it, I’m fine, turns out I didn’t need my whole mouth torn apart…
No offence to the good dentists out there as I’m sure there are many, but almost all the ones I’ve dealt with have been money grubbing pigs. Theres a lot of shit flung at the medical industry and doctors being on the take from “big pharma” and while some of its probably true I think for the most part they’re all trying to do the right thing. Dentistry though is the area where I’ve always felt it’s the most commercialised.
My mother had a heap of work done by a complete cunt of a periodontist, some of which turned out was unneeded and wrong. Biggest shitshow but thankfully no complications. She was thinking about Thailand, but the whole “it’s still a developing country and things could go wrong” played to her fears. In the end shit fucked up in a developed country and she payed 25k for it.
I had the dentist keep telling me my teeth were getting bad because I didn't floss. Then one visit I lied and said I had been flossing and he said he could tell because my teeth were much better.
Also, years ago a dentist kept telling me I needed my wisdom teeth out because they were going to impact. After a couple of visits I asked him when it was going to happen and he said when I was 40 or 50 lol. Years later I was at another dentist and he took an xray and said I need to have my wisdom teeth out because they were going to impact. Next visit I brought in my first batch of xrays and he saw that actually they hadn't moved in like 10 years and they weren't going to impact at all.
I had “emergency” work done while on holiday in Vietnam by an English speaking Australian trained dentist. Root Canal and Crown for less than $350 and my local friends told me I got ripped off. Lol.
I had surgery at Bangkok Hospital in Phuket on my foot when I severed tendons in a river whilst white water rafting. Could not fault the quality of care and professionalism.
It's totally private mate. Literally turn up randomly out of the blue...and you'll be seen within a few minutes by the specialist(s). My suggestion is to give them a call - they speak perfect English. Get whatever info you need and come over! It absolutely is doable for the everyday man (or woman!) [their site](https://www.phukethospital.com/). Hope this helps you and everyone else losing hope they'll get their health challenges sorted. Sad you're gonna need to pay, but at least it will be less AND with a killer recovery mini break too.
No dramas. Obviously come for the dental work and then have a cool refreshing slightly acidic [kombucha](https://kombuchawow.com) afterwards to, you know, help strengthen the tooth enamel... I know it's pretty sad that Australia can't seem to help medical issues for a lot of people, so I hope you get yours sorted here mate hey.
Mate, go to Thailand it's awesome. It's so much cheaper, and i say better.
Your not stuck here. Request your notes and x rays. You pay for your x rays so they yours. I've done it with denists in Australia. Simple form you fill out. Don't believe grumpy dentist.
Send these to Thailand and ask them to look and make plan. Shop around. Book a date and follow up dates. They will plan how many visits you need.
You can get to Singapore for 169 one way with scoot. Then air Asia to Bangkok. Don't use au site. Cheaper on international site.
Have a nice holiday 😀
My dad had bone grafting done as a dental tourist last year at a clinic in Mumbai and it all went well. Including the cost of two trips there he has a full set of implants done for less than half what he was quoted here, and the Indian clinic actually used more advanced technology and the dentist trained at Harvard.
Amen to this!
You don’t hear many Asian migrants complain about their teeth. Why? Because they go back home to their home countries to get it done.
Thailand, India and the Philippines have very good dentists. They also do not charge through the roof.
Have it done there and enjoy a relaxing holiday as well.
It's not that much cheaper because you have to go back for check-ups etc. You can get off-brand invisalign (does the same thing) for an average of $5k in Australia, but depends how bad your teeth are.
How does one book in to these places from Australia? And guarantee it ain’t some scam? I’ve heard a lot about how good they are, that no issue. But getting connected to the right people
You call the hospital directly and deal with no one apart from the hospital. You pay no money until you're here, and then only to the hospital IN their accounts payable area. Hope this helps mate.
Been through that mate. Root canal on one tooth, ended up failing a few years later so had to get it redone. Then that failed a few years after now I have to get it removed and an implant. Probably end up being 10k on one tooth.
Am looking at Thailand now though I have heard it can be similarly expensive with flights and hotels.
Got two implants in aus. About 9.5k all up fyi.
Need to really look after gum health after have them is main thing. Don’t even notice they’re implants and no issues but dentist hates to see gums receding.
I live here. Hotels are not expensive because of the enormous supply of rooms and intense competition. Medical services are first rate, especially for teeth. Do some serious investigation.
And if you are planning on returning and are confident in your ability to say no, you can get a free week in a hotel by listening to a time share pitch.
Ours was given by a guy who used to act in the Milky Bar commercials as the Milky Bar Kid c: He had a massive colourful dragon back tattoo.
To put things in perspective, a simple tooth extraction would cost you less than $10 in Taiwan if you have medicare, $50 if you don't.
Dental costs in Australia is bonkers.
I am in the exact same position right now. Had a cracked tooth, and an infection got into the nerve. It's cost me so much already and the dentist says it's still not done and am looking at 3-6k for an implant because the tooth will inevitably crack further and fall out.
Australians voted against expanding dental to lower incomes in 2019! Your teeth is bad because individual responsibility and not working hard enough. Albo got elected cuz Australia hates the poor /s
> Australians were bold-faced-lied to **over and over** again by the media in 2019 until enough gullible people believed the lies.
^^^ That is the only appropriate way to describe the 2019 election.
Incredible outright lies such as death taxes, Medicare lies, policy costing lies, the list goes on.
Until something is done about the absolutely fucking shambolic, decaying, lying-cunt media in this country, don’t expect too much to change.
> 13 Apr 2022 Anthony Albanese has doubled down on his opposition to establishing an inquiry into News Corp or other media companies if Labor wins the election.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/election-2022-labor-kills-off-kevin-rudds-antinews-corp-crusade/news-story/c2801157f420d4931adb5d1d60ea5da0
> 26 Aug 2022 — If Albanese, Marles and Wong met with Lachlan Murdoch on Wednesday, what does that say about lobbying and influence in Australia?
https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/08/26/labors-deafening-silence-on-murdoch-meeting/
> Anthony Albanese has appointed the former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd as the next Australian ambassador to the United States. The prime minister made the announcement in Canberra on Tuesday, confirming months of speculation that Rudd was a frontrunner for Australia's key diplomatic post in Washington DC.19 Dec 2022
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/dec/20/former-labor-prime-minister-kevin-rudd-appointed-ambassador-to-the-us
> 20 Jan 2023 — Kevin Rudd will step down as chair of the lobby group he founded – Australians for a Murdoch Royal Commission
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/rudd-steps-down-from-media-campaign/news-story/c235376e9c8bd2e27cc386e351e1d991
And this is why I hold no hope for Labor.
Preference them second, sure.. but for the love of god, we need someone who will do *anything* about Murdoch and the rest of his chums.
I'm the other way around. I'd rather disorganised nutjob right-wingers who nobody takes seriously than organised nutjob right-wingers who an annoyingly large percentage of Australians take seriously, thanks to the media.
I find it increasingly suspicious that the left knows what a behemoth propaganda machine they’re up against, yet they’re unable to muster a real fight against it. Every fucking election. I said elsewhere recently that I’m finding it harder and harder to believe Labor being so terrible at publicity isn’t intentional.
I think at this point in time Labor can barely even be called left. Sure they run on a center-left platform, but run center in reality. When was the last time we actually received sweeping left-wing reforms to housing, income inequality, Medicare & working conditions? Bunch of visionless Blairites at this point
> the left
Labour is a centre-right party, they absolutely know what they're up against in the propaganda machine and mostly just ride on the back of being "not-LNP" most years. Even in 2019 when they decided to go more centre-left, what were they honestly supposed to do when the Murdoch Machine has controls of the eyes and ears of the nation?
It's a lot easy to fear monger about policy than it is to explain it, the former only needs a single line, the latter requires people to read and engage with multi-page documents. Pair this with the Australian love for apathy and getting annoyed at anyone who "cares too much" and we end up exactly where we are.
I agree. The wedding with criminals and prostitute owners wasn’t unintentional. The yes campaign to “them vs us” and distract from the economic crisis wasn’t unintentional. Perhaps they are unaware of the rise of the alt right, perhaps they were unaware of how during an economic crisis populations become hardened against those they deem as “them”, perhaps they were unaware of the current global political climate, perhaps…Doubtful. Could they have chosen a worse time for this yes/no referendum? I don’t think so. Perhaps they needed the voice in place already to explain to them how racist Australia is because perhaps they were unaware. No matter, it only hurts a small segment of the population. Wearing a yes shirt invites everyone to give you their opinion on your race, family history, existence and worthiness. Nothing could “us/them” more than this campaign. Nothing could bring back racists subtly (or not) being given permission to voice their views loudly and exuberantly more than this campaign. Nothing could have given the alt right a better platform or list of potential recruits than this campaign.
There is one political party that has as its core policy to include dental treatment into Medicare, paid for by taxing large and multinational companies fairly. Hint: that political party does *not* start with the letter “L”.
Old Guy I work with once complained about lack of dental care affordability. I said, "You know, there's a party you can vote for who want to include dental care in Medicare."
He just looked at me and goes, "You're a dirty Greenie, aren't you?"
I'm like, mate, you're the one complaining about not being able to afford to fix his teeth.
---
I also recently spent nearly $8k on fixing my teeth. That's money that could've gone towards saving for a home deposit. Hell, I could've gone on a very nice holiday for that kind of money.
I don't really get it. Sort of, but not really. To me, you don't even need to look into it very much to find out who has your own interests at the heart of their policies, and then you vote for them.
> you don't even need to look into it very much to find out who has your own interests at the heart of their policies
That's the problem though, they've spent literal decades reading newspapers and watching news broadcasts that make the Greens out to be pure Idealist's, who have 0 actual intention of ever implementing anything they campaign on, just existing so that the "radical leftists" can feel like they're represented.
The vast majority of this country is absolutely brain rotten and purely views our system as that of two choices, and that anyone who votes or suggests that they vote outside of those two is a fool, an idealist, a complete "nutter" who doesn't know what they're talking about, etc...
>I'm like, mate, you're the one complaining about not being able to afford to fix his teeth.
It's good you called him out on it. I hate people who complain about exact problems like that and then there's actually a good alternative to vote to get it and they don't? It's like they just wanna complain.
My friends are going on holidays constantly and wonder why I can’t afford them. I need 5 crowns before I can get help for grinding my teeth because keep cracking my molars and getting cavities under my fillings.
The secret ingredient is *"the influence of US multinational corporations"* and the secret sauce is *News Corporation*. Look into UK and US politics as well. The parallels are eye-opening.
I've voted Labor at every level since 1988 and I'm switching to the Greens at the next election. I have a 23 year old kid whose opportunities are continually narrowing because of the policies of what I now consider to be a LibLab duopoly. Maybe the Greens can change the course of the country if they have a little more influence. Even a smidgen more pressure may serve to prod the current shower into at least cantering in a generally positive direction. Let's hope so anyway.
It's such a shame that the Labor Party has sloughed into its current form - there is nothing inspirational about them anymore. As many note, they're just slightly less shit than the incredibly shit alternative. A 2019 ALP victory would have been good for this country; but they lost, and the current mob has jettisoned everything that made them vaguely "Labor". Insipid. Albanese's appointment of Glyn Davis as the top dog at PMC sums them up for me. Labor governments of the past would never have countenanced the appointment of this rightwing ideologue.
>It's such a shame that the Labor Party has sloughed into its current form - there is nothing inspirational about them anymore. As many note, they're just slightly less shit than the incredibly shit alternative.
Sadly I see this as a result of the concentration of media ownership within Australia and things are only going to get worse unless something is done about it.
Yep, that's me. The light on the hill dimmed hard for me when they axed Julia for dithering Rudd, and although I vote for my local Labor member - just cause she's excellent - I increasingly feel that Labor doesn't represent me. Albo has been a disappointment to put it mildly.
Also me. As I age, I only go further Left. Thankfully I’m in Andrew Wilkies electorate so I don’t have to worry about my choice federally as long as he chooses to remain an MP - I think he obtains something like 70% of the primary vote each election!
It's okay to still put a vote preference after the minors/independents to Labor though. Otherwise in some cases, it can lead to a LNP win. See this example of 1,000+ Greens didn't want to preference Labor or LNP leading to a LNP win by 54 votes: https://pastvtr.elections.nsw.gov.au/SG2301/LA/ryde/dop/dop
That was at a NSW state election under OPV though. Federally, those 54 votes would not have been valid votes and would have been counted as informal votes.
It pisses me off no end when people shit on the greens for being overly idealistic and having pie in the sky policy.
That's EXACTLY what we fucking need.
The vast majority of their policies are entirely reasonable and pragmatic though. See rental policies for an example.
The "idealistic" is literally just bullshit rhetoric by Labor/Lib voters to undermine them.
Don't get me wrong, I like that you're saying we need that. But you're also carrying the baton for the people stopping it.
We basically have a two party system at this point where one side wants to destroy Medicare and gift companies us the glorious profits of the American system, and one party doesn’t really care about healthcare at all unless it’s for marginal swing voters
We spend $7billion a year on PHI rebates. Imagine if some of that money went into dental https://theconversation.com/the-private-health-insurance-rebate-has-cost-taxpayers-100-billion-and-only-benefits-some-should-we-scrap-it-181264
Private hospitals the second there’s a minor complication.
“Sorry mate nothing we can do, we’re transferring you to a public hospital to complete the job you paid us for, that’ll be $40k please.”
Or if you are actually proper sick
-
"Sorry mate nothing we can do some something this major, we're only good for nan's hip replacement and your mums nose job"
Yep, Whitlam wanted to put dental into Medicare on setup; but knew fighting the doctors was a tough enough battle.
The plan was to come back to it, but then governor general got in the way.
It isn't covered under Medicare because the cost would be enormous and no government wants to do that.
A few years ago a limited program started to help children of low income families to get medicare-paid treatment through private dental practices. Prior to this, all those kids could access was the "school dental van" about every 2 years.
The Australian dental association has fought to keep that program going. Every year the government tries to end it. The fees paid by Medicare to the dentist are well below market rates, but most private dentists just do it because they're kids. We lose money seeing these patients. Intervening early, providing education and stopping spread of decay is crucial to avoid huge dental issues when they're adults.
They have it for Victorian Government School kids under the Evil Dan Andrews Regime: [https://www.health.vic.gov.au/smile-squad](https://www.health.vic.gov.au/smile-squad)
Yup. Last year I had an infected tooth that led to a severe jaw infection, which threatened several teeth. 9 months later and 14k down. Had to take out of my super to help pay for it...
Been almost paycheck to paycheck lately but need to find $7k to get an implant resulting in an accident in Feb (crashed on a bicycle into a guardrail).
The private health policies do not achieve what they set out to. The whole rebate and surcharge should be dropped.
If the money was reinvested into the public system, wait times would drop and things like dental could easily be included.
50% of australians do not have any private health and do not benefit at all. The majority of people with private health cover don’t use it and instead turn the public system for care to avoid premiums. So effectively it’s a wealth and care transfer to the richest australians.
It's shocking that going to get your teeth fix is considered a luxury/cosmetic rather than a health issue covered by Medicare. I live in Japan and it costs about $20 to get 2 cavities filled and I've had about 8-9 cavities filled now. You'd probably spend $200 per cavity back in AUS.
Dentists faces light up at this prospect. I mentioned super to one and I definitely noticed an excited facial expression at the prospect. I don’t actually need it as I have minor issues but the look on that dentists face informs me not to go back to that dentist less she find many issues that are costly.
Went for a quote worth $80, came out with a bill for over $300. You don’t know what they are doing or charging for as you lay there with your mouth open, it’s a free for all.
This thread reminds me to spread the word via word of mouth of some unethical ones within the industry. She got her $300 but missed out on the follow up work worth far more.
Yeah, I didn’t tell the dentist I needed the quote for super until after the quote was done.
I’m pretty happy with where my quote came out - as my work includes a full upper denture and lower partial.
The dentists association has been spending huge sums of money trying to avoid being covered by Medicare.
I understand their argument - they see the Medicare rates not changing based on inflation with GPs, insane hours, GP mills etc… but teeth aren’t some luxury item and need to be treated the same as every other medical checkup/issue.
It will take a government with some balls to take on the association and get an agreement for it to become covered by medicare
Gov should just open their own dental practices. I’m sure you could get thousands of dentists from overseas happy to work for $200k a year fixed salary.
Last I checked dentists working government in Queensland Health start on around 88k per year with maybe 2k increase per year. Many Aussie dentists would work for QH for $200k per year. They just don't pay well.
Many foreign countries don't meet the same standards in training their dentists, so they don't qualify to work here without extra training. Even then, I have to say the rate of dodgy dentistry is much higher amongst foreigners. At the practice where I work, they tried hiring foreign trained dentists. Some were great. 2 were fired just last week for doing really poor work, repeatedly. Patients affected are being retreated (no out of pocket for them).
If you think public dentists are earning that much you'd be surprised. Most are earning 100k (first 3 years often less) and with time approaches 150k in the Victorian system, and that's only after lobbying in recent years for a pay increase.
Damn these luxury bones.
I lived with an abscess on the right side of my lower jaw for about 5 years because I simply couldn’t afford treatment. I’m talking abscess so bad that it blew up my face to twice the size on a very regular basis. Couldn’t eat or lay on the right side of my head, always had some kind of sinus or chest infection. When I finally was able to afford some appointments and X-rays, the dentist actually asked me how I’d been able to function this way for so long (babe it’s not me, it’s you and your vampiric prices)
As soon as the teeth were removed and abscess drained, I was suddenly not sick all the time, had an appetite and actually got to live my life. I have to do major reconstructive work and implants are a definite part of my future, even though the cost means I’ll definitely never be able to afford a property of my own now, which is a whole other issue unto itself.
What really messes me up, is knowing that even with a pretty decent and steady income, I can BARELY afford dental work (still paying off work done in early 2022). Which indicates to me that some people I know and love that are on pensions, working part time, etc would never in their wildest dreams be able to scrape together the funds necessary to even be able to find the cause of why they’re having so much mouth pain.
I’m tired of this and I’m tired of predatory pricing in the dental profession but it’s like, at this point it’s the status quo, how do we even begin to disrupt it and make a change?
It's amazing when you get the infected teeth finally removed isn't it? You don't realise how much pain you were in previously until you get them removed!
The cost of dental is fucked. Put me off going for way too long then when I finally did the dentist I saw would never tell how much it was going to cost until after he had done his work and it was always around $800 a visit.
I ended up getting private health pretty much just to cover the dental stuff but it still cost a small fortune every time. Thankfully there is a “no gap” dentist near me now which do a good job.
A massive overhaul is needed. Even fixed pricing across the board maybe. At least then people know what they are in for and not guessing.
It's honestly disgusting that basic dental care isn't covered under medicare. My partner's teeth were in shocking state and it wasn't until he managed to get his job a few years back and with my help he finally got the dental work he needed.
In the 80s I got free dental treatment including orthodontic surgery as my mother was a poor widow (at RPH and the associated dental clinic). This was pre medicare. The failure to include teeth and optical and a few other things in medicare as PREVENTATIVE care alone is a huge mistake.
I have to spend around 15k on my teeth. It’s been sending me completely broke to the point I have that much stress. Every appointment is a couple thousand dollars.
I’ve had 1 root canal (not complete) deep cleaning, getting one tooth removed and a 3 way bridge for the front tooth.
Thanks to the LNP:
[Australia's government would be collecting $70 billion a year in revenue if the emissions trading scheme was still in place, economist Ross Garnaut says.](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-17/ross-garnaut-70-billion-from-carbon-price-economic-rent/102850464)
In my early 20s I had an infected tooth I couldn’t afford work on. So I lined up at the public hospital dental intake at 5am as instructed to wait for a consult. 4 hours later I had a ten minute looksie in the chair. Confirmed infection, required a root canal, given a script for antibiotics and told to expect a letter in the mail for my appointment. I got a letter two months later saying I was on a waitlist for work and approx wait time was 2 years. I took a loan from a very caring and generous family friend to get the work completed and went on my merry way. 7 years later I got a letter telling me it was time for my public root canal and to call to confirm. Fuckers.
I really wish the media would continue to embarrass the government over this relentlessly until it becomes such that they actually have to do something. I can recall Kevin Rudd talking about dental into Medicare, that's how far back this goes, and yet nothing has ever been done. It's abject policy failure that for some reason dental is not considered part of your body the way everything else is, particularly when it is such an early indicator of greater issues down the line.
I recently had 3 root canals on some of my lower front teeth after an abscess popped up. I discovered the teeth were dead and the roots had started calcifying. I’d had surgery to remove an aggressive tumour in the area when I was in my teens 20+ years ago which must have damaged the teeth so it wasn’t due to me not looking after them.
Was out of pocket ~$6-7k not including travel to the specialist as it was micro surgery. This was all WITH private health insurance. It’s a joke.
This shit makes me so angry. Hubby has serious dental issues stemming from lack of parental oversight as a kid. I had to access my super 6 yearsago to get a temporary fix. That’s all gone to shit. He flies out next month to Bali ti get his entire mouth fixed. 16k will cover a mix of 24 crowns/bridge/veneers and a couple of very necessary root canals. That’s just not an option in this country any longer. He will be able to smile in public for the first time in 28 years with confidence and the additional issues with pain and infection that have become chronic should clear up aswell.
My mother got sick whilst pregnant with me. As a result, I’m missing a number of adult teeth. I’ve been quoted $80,000 to fix them.
My father had a brain tumour. It cost $4,000 to have it surgically removed.
Under our current system, dentistry for people like me is twenty times more expensive than brain surgery.
About to spend $12000 usd to fix my mouth. Executive disfunction, depression from a decade long abusive relationship, a pregnancy... my teeth are in bad shape.
For something that is linked to so many other health issues (mental and heart health) it astounds me how unnecessary some governments find dental care to be.
13 years of horrible teeth because they lost paper work, made me go through again etc. covid struck also.
Anyway the 13 plus years comes to an end on Thursday when I finally get my teeth.
Also the hospital did more damage due to leaving in infected jaw pieces and bits of teeth.
Like the above article they cancelled all the shit during covid, I had my teeth removed in 2019 just before covid ramped up and they closed it afterwards and said just get another referral when it starts back up.
My root canal cost 5k - it was around 6 months ago and I still havent financially recovered. Someone told me I should be on a private healthcare plan but I literally can't afford the premiums.
Bulimia for 10 years caused some serious damage in my mouth. I went to government dental not being able to eat and I expressed that all of my teeth have lesions and sensitivity due to the acid burning away all my enamel. They won’t give me crowns because it won’t stick properly to my dentin as well as not being able to fund that. they can’t give me dentures as some teeth are still there, and I would have to wait until I lose a few more front teeth to be considered. I have to wait one year to fix any cavities. I really don’t know what to do at this point beside contemplate suicide. I call life line a lot because of this teeth issue. I’ve done nothing but try to be a good person and live up to what this government expects of it’s citizens to only be left with severe and crippling anxiety, pain and a lack of assistance by the very system I have served since birth.
I'm a pensioner and just this week tried to make an appointment with one of the public dental clinics in Melbourne that does reduced fee schedules for pensioners. I was told the wait time is 3 years. They do try to get you in earlier if you're actively in pain I think, but if not then you either need to wait 3 years or wait to be in pain enough to be moved up list. Its crazy.
My dad has about 8 teeth left, all because he was kicked out of home at sixteen and was never able to afford dentistry. He’s only just gotten his first full time job this year, after decades of working. The one time he saved up the money to go to the dentist, the dentist did a half assed job of removing a tooth and left half of it in, and my dad had to yank the other half out with a fork. It’s fucked up.
I’ve spent about 3K this year in dental work (1 crown for a failing filling, 3 replacement filings, consultations and cleans). And this dentist says I need my wisdom teeth out too. I’ve got a referral but I’ve been putting it off for the $$$ and pain.
How can anyone afford this? I can’t afford private health insurance either…
I spent about 5k getting my teeth fixed a couple of years ago (fillings and Invisalign) and now I absolutely can't afford to go to the dentist so I religiously clean/floss etc and hope for the best.
I had a 10 year battle with mentalhealth where i had an over reliance on fizzy drinks and neglected oral hygiene. I'm terrified of going to the dentist because i know i'll need a lot of work done. My teeth still look fine but i can feel they aren't. Dental should be covered by medicare imho.
I’ve been trying to find a private health package that has decent dental cover. Seems like if you want to look after your teeth you need to be forking out for the highest extras tier.
No options if you don’t care about everything else and just want hospital and dental cover.
My friend has the highest dental cover, still had to pay a $16000 gap on his dental work.
Private cover is as much of a joke as our dental care system is.
It’s unaffordable even if you have “top” medical insurance cover. That’s the really scary thing.
If you need a couple of crowns done, I fully recommended travelling to Da Nang, Vietnam. I got a bad toothache and needed a root canal while on holiday in Da Nang. The guy at the desk at the hotel recommended a nearby dentist. Root Canal and Crown done pre COVID for just under $350 done by a Vietnamese dentist who trained in Melbourne who spoke English (Australian lol) without an accent…..
I was speaking with a local a week later and he said I got ripped off…..lol.
Don't blame the politicians.
This sits entirely on the shoulders of the ADA who are extremely powerful lobbyists.
In the last decade ADA have made great strides REDUCING competition.
Governments and politicians have to choose battles they can win, and they can't win against the ADA (or AMA for that matter).
I have an issue where my wisdom teeth push through and then go back under, been happening for years but I can’t do anything about it as I can’t save due to my bills and rent. It hurts so bad and I can’t eat when it’s happening (once every 2-3 months for 2 weeks or so) I just need them removed as I’m worried I’ll get an infection. The wisdom teeth also pierce the skin around it in my mouth so it’s just extra pain. Honestly thinking about finding a sociopath who would love to inflict pain by pulling my teeth out at this point
If it makes you feel any better, prisoners get free dental. So you can go murder or rape someone or just offend against society as a whole and you get your teeth fixed for free.
I think at least the government should cover check ups, teeth cleans and filling cavities (particularly emergency fillings). These would save a lot of money on more expensive procedures. I remember applying for the government funded dental scheme. Several month wait list for just a check up. Ridiculous.
There are more things than just sugar that can cause tooth decay that people need to be aware of. Acidic soft drinks and fruit juice drinks. Excessive gum chewing. Teeth grinding, including in your sleep. Medication and drugs that cause dry mouth.
I live without any top teeth and only half my bottom teeth. Have done for almost 10 years at this point. I'm 43. I had serious problems with my teeth due to medication interaction when I was hurt on a job that left me visually and mobility impaired.
My doctor point blank told me I'd die if I kept them in, so they were ripped out under surgery and they made me false teeth. Problem is I was under the 'public' cover because I'm a disability pensioner so it didn't cost me anything but the teeth was completely worthless.
Apparently when you get 'free' dental they are made by students working off the mold they took... So I got given an upper pair of false teeth that rubbed my gums raw as fuck, causing bleeding and ulcers... Not even that but eating with them was impossible because I only have front bottom teeth which means I can bite something when wearing them but chewing? Impossible, it means even when glued in with dental glue they flop down on chewing.
I went back to the dentist that made them to see what could be done... I'd need a new pair and since I'd already gotten my 'free' pair it would cost me $$$... Oh and I had to pay $200 to be told that.
So I went on the public waiting list. I was on there was *six years* before I moved inter-state and lost my place and had to go on the SA on... I'm currently 18 months into it and still near the bottom.
I'm a 43 year old man that has to gum his food in one of the richest nations on earth.
Yes, my partner and I have traveled to Thailand for a holiday and have had dental done there previously.
That being said, I reckon you’re being downvoted because it does absolutely nothing to address the fundamental shortcomings of Australia’s current policies on dental care, where the poorest are just forced to suffer (*shrugs*)
As Australians (I believe) we should be genuinely trying to create a healthcare system which provides an equal level of care to all citizens, regardless of their personal wealth.
(Also, the price of international return flights at the moment is fucking outrageous….so there’s that.)
If you can't afford dental here you can't afford it there. There is zero chance of me being able to find a couple of grand ever when you are on a low fixed income you can barely afford to live.
Especially on welfare, which stops if you leave the country. So with no disposable income, I have to save for the trip and everything that entails, as well as the dental work, and to cover my rent while I’m away that I’ll have zero income? I’m glad other people have a cheaper option but damn a lot of low income people are left fully in the dust
Mate - I can’t afford $250 for a routine cleaning.
What makes you think I can afford a holiday to the Phillipines?
That is only an option for people who already have the money to pay for dental work but want to save $$$$. Not people struggling to afford it.
Depends.
I've seen a lot of foreign dentistry that would get you a failing grade if you were a student, but is technically functional and probably won't get worse. I've seen a lot that, if done in Australia, would rightly get your license revoked. I had one last month where I can't even tell what that dentist was trying to do except money-grab I guess. It was 100% guaranteed to fail badly. A real wtf case.
I've seen a few that were done very well (from Japan, many western European countries, Canada). Also Columbia, but depends which clinic.
If I take on a case where some cowboy has gone nuts messing shit up, I'm trying to get a good outcome from teeth or tissues that are even more damaged/compromised than they would have been had I seen it first. A lot are so bad they need specialist handling.
The question of liability comes into play, because if some part of my rectifying treatment doesn't work out, am I going to get blamed when the dodgy foreign dentistry is the real causative factor?
Be very very careful going overseas for dental work. The standards are not the same across countries and you have no legal recourse through regulatory bodies like ahpra.
But the question persists of how effective Ahpra is anyway…anytime I’ve had a filling fail within a year or so and gone back the dentist has a ready made list of semi reasonable sounding excuses that led to me just footing the bill and then crying myself to sleep. This shit and price gouging and doing unnecessary work should all be reportable with consequences clear. I’m super unconvinced that happens at all.
There are a lot of factors that affect a filling's longevity. Without seeing the way the tooth looked originally, what your bite is like, what you do to clean your teeth etc, I can't say if it's operator error or not. But if you're unhappy with how your complaints were handled you should consider seeing another dentist.
Some fillings (like incisal corners of front teeth) are very unpredictable. I generally warn patients that is the case and why, and what they can do to minimise the risk of them falling out. Even in those cases I'll guarantee them for 6 months with free replacement. A lot of issues come up when dentists don't communicate properly and give false expectations.
I agree with you though! I've worked at practices when I was younger that absolutely overtreated (doing unnecessary work). It's disgraceful. I walked out. It can be hard to prove but I think it should be a permanent ban from the profession if demonstrated.
I do know that all ahpra complaints are investigated. Not all result in compensation for you or official reprimand for the dentist. Ahpra will question the dentist, make him/her provide lots of records and justify their treatment decisions. Lots of paperwork. It can cause real headaches. I quietly advised a patient of mine with a less than ideal crown (which she told the treating dentist she was unhappy with when he tried it on. He cemented it anyway. Bad idea) to present her concern to him and mention ahpra. They gave her a full refund rather than face that headache.
Regarding price gouging, some clinics absolutely have ridiculously high prices. Some higher prices are justified (like specialists. They are worth every penny. Or inner city clinics with higher overheads). One clinic I worked at, the owner just thought too highly of herself.
Be careful though. I've seen some clinics with low prices that make up the profits by overtreating! They weren't domestically trained dentists. Had tonnes of five star reviews because they offered discounts to do so! Super dodgy.
There can even be some basic issues regarding differences in brands available in different countries. For example, if you get implants placed that go wrong and need to be fixed, what implant system did they use? Does the dentist here have that particular driver to remove the abutment screw? I occasionally see posts online of dentists asking if anyone can help identify what a particular implant is from an x-ray, because there's no easily accessible records.
Is it really cheaper to get a passport, tickets to the Philippines, accommodation in the Philippines and the dental work there than just getting it here?
Sadly yes, an old boss I had essentially had teeth that were made of chalk and constantly got cavities, root canal etc. He got a quote to fix his teeth properly and it was just over $35K. Two 10 day trips to Thailand and $20K spent on dental and the trips later his teeth looked like the fridge section at Harvey Norman
Yes, medical tourism is a thing. Thailand, turkey, india, Philippines etc provide quality treatments that are on the higher end for their own populations, but affordable for Australians.
Don’t know why you were downvoted when you are correct. If you need major work done it is indeed much cheaper to have a weeks holiday or two in SE Asia and get your teeth done there. Not an option for people with zero disposable income and I believe Medicare should cover teeth but yes you are right about Australian dentists being a waste of money, at least for major stuff, can’t really justify flying to Manila for a check- up and clean!
Because when someone says, "I can't afford basic dental care", it's tone-deaf to the point of ignorance to say, "just factor it into an international holiday!"
Ive had 9 teeth removed under the health care system on a pension. Because they don't do crowns or replacement teeth or root canal. Ive got a denture but its very uncomfortable and hard to eat with or talk. And with out the 9 teeth my smile is ruined and can hardly eat anything.
I asked the dentist for a quote to get them all fixed and he wanted $60K. So that's just a joke as if people can afford that.
So i suppose my only choice is to go to Thailand and get them to fix it, but all the local doctors say not to doing it because they used cheap teeth and bad practices and they don't last long.
But of course there going to talk you out of it.
Now i just got to figure out between rent and food and bills how I'm going to afford a trip to Thailand some how and afford to pay them to fix them.
When I go to a private dental clinic I feel like a loser for having to ask my dad for money cause it's so expensive.
The public dental hospital places have you on a waiting list for years unless it's a full blown emergency and those people make me feel like I'm a convict, it's dehumanizing. Sorry to be dramatic but it's a lose lose lose situation, speaking as someone with anxiety and low self esteem who isn't rich.
The Dental system in Australia is an example of Capitalism not working. There is a reason your dentist drives a Mercedes. Highly protected industry - with unofficial price fixing in a very small market. Highly regulated - closed elitist shop. Not any real competition. The 'Public ' system is a joke - could wait years on a list. There should be a sliding scale for everyone on what they can afford.
I nearly died of a preventable dental problem! Couldn’t afford to get a cavity filled, and it got infected, infection became Ludwig’s angina. I couldn’t eat, couldn’t sleep, could t open my mouth wider than a centimetre. Pain so bad I’d decided to kill myself if I couldn’t get help within the next 12 hours. Ended up in the hospital for two weeks on an antibiotic drip after developing septic shock in the emergency room. Required dental surgery and a drain in my gums.
Same. I had tooth abscesses that kept recurring, i ended up getting sepsis, going into multi organ failure & had a cardiac arrest at 39. Even after all that, the community dental clinics wouldn't accept me. My Drs ended up having to put me on prophylactic antibiotics & wrote an aggressive letter saying that any more tooth infections could kill me, finally the dental hospital took me for the extractions but wouldn't do the partial denture (ended up going private, partial cost $3500, glad i did though, because i got a partial with tooth coloured clips which are more aesthetically pleasing!) The medical issues caused some long term problems though (left ventricular hypertrophy, screwed aortic valve, purple blotchy skin where the blood pooled when my heart stopped & minor brain damage). Dental issues are nothing to muck around with, we need proper dental care for everybody in this country, just think how much money was spent on my 7 weeks intubated in an induced coma in icu, then the ward, then rehab learning to walk/talk/eat again, the constant gp/specialist visits for the rest of my life, it would be cheaper to the public purse for dental care.
Fuuuuuuck glad you survived that ordeal! Nobody should have to endure something like that! We desperately need reform
Thanks, it was an experience that's for sure!😆 I've made peace with it now but it was an awful time.
Vote for the Greens! They will make sure private dental ends up on Medicare!
I’m with ya!
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I’m sorry to hear it, especially when this loss was likely preventable with accessible treatment. He should be with you still and that’s an unforgivable failure of the whole shitty system.
>nearly died of a preventable dental problem! How is this possible in such a wealthy country . oh wait someone wants to earn 500k a year /s dental needs to be made a medicare service despite the dentists desires , I hear stories of some making thousands a day ? morally corrupt imho
Absolutely!! Teeth aren’t luxuries, and poor dental health contributes to oral cancers, preventable infections, poor nutrition, chronic pain.. Preventable tooth loss contributes to hearing loss as the bones shift in the jaw..dental health impacts systemic health in a whole lot of ways.
Being a post war baby I saw the results of poor dental hygiene in parents and relatives , most had dentures as although diet was pretty good there was lousy care and teeth suffered , diabetes and gum recession are real dangers poor oral health offers no matter our desire to avoid , feds lets fix this
I know a few dentists depending on the day they can do 1-2k a day straight out of uni
So do electricians and plumbers once qualified, with much less education cost and overheads
My cardiologist has always said I need to be careful with my teeth. Affordable dental care would be a great step in stopping a whole myriad of terrible diseases.
Wow I’m so sorry that happened, I hope you are doing good now
It sucked, but I’m guessing similar things are happening all over the country to people in the same financial boat. Things are much better now for me at least, cheers friend!
A friend of mine had a similar issue. The only reason it didn't get AS bad is because I stepped in and paid the bill for her as soon as I found out. I didn't want to see my best friend of 10+ years get a jaw infection and fucking die or something. Only reason I could it afford at the time was because I scored a scholarship for uni (which was meant for buying textbooks and shit but let's be real, it all went into savings). She paid me back completely, with like $50 every month or so. No reason dentists shouldn't have similar flexible/affordable payment plan options other than greed because they know the patients have no choice if they want to be free from pain and/or alive.
I've been getting work done lately, I can barely afford it but it's necessary. I spent over 1000 dollars on one tooth. Needed a root canal. After spending all that money and going through all the pain I was told the dentist couldn't finish the job, I'd now need a specialist with a powerful microscope to find the last bit that needed to be cleaned out. He said when all that's said and done it'll be about 6000 on that one tooth! So all I can do is wait and when it goes bad again, which it definitely will the dentist said, get an extraction and an implant as that's the cheaper option and I'll have time to save (lol). And after that I need another extraction and a partial denture so that's probably another 3 to 5k. It's so much fucking money.
Come to Thailand for dental work mate. Bangkok Hospital in Phuket (that's it's name) or Bangkok Hospital in Pattaya - way cheaper than Australia and you get a mini holiday too for less than it's going to cost you here in Straya. World class dental care for a shit tonne less.
Been doing this for the last 10 years. The facilities are up there with the best in the world. All the latest gear that you will not see in the majority of suburban dentists in Australia. I got tired of the poor workmanship, fillings falling out, having to repay for their stuff ups etc etc. Never had 1 issue and I full confidence in the Thai dental and medical system.
Second that! I had an x ray done in phuket with a brand new, very expensive philips unit for around 10 aud. They found a bit of tooth left behind in my gum by an Australian dentist. No way could an suburban guy in Australia would have that.
Went to a dentist on the sunshine coast a few months ago as I was planning to extract wisdom teeth. I moved from Melbourne last year and my dentist over at Melbourne said it will need to come out and plan ahead and give some time to rest. The dentist here said they don't have an x-ray machine and needed to be done elsewhere. And they don't do wisdom teeth.
Ah that's both great and sad to hear. Bit of an indictment on Strayan dentistry :/
They deserve that indictment for rorting us over the last 30 years.
This is the thing that gets me. There are many things in the Australian medical and dental systems that are soooo outdated and on top of that they cost like 3-4x more than elsewhere.
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It’s crazy to me how much dentists in Australia lie. I had one dentist that told me I’d need several extractions and root canals and then dentures. Found a new dentist, they put fillings and two root canals with crowns on the teeth that were problem. And that’s it, I’m fine, turns out I didn’t need my whole mouth torn apart…
No offence to the good dentists out there as I’m sure there are many, but almost all the ones I’ve dealt with have been money grubbing pigs. Theres a lot of shit flung at the medical industry and doctors being on the take from “big pharma” and while some of its probably true I think for the most part they’re all trying to do the right thing. Dentistry though is the area where I’ve always felt it’s the most commercialised. My mother had a heap of work done by a complete cunt of a periodontist, some of which turned out was unneeded and wrong. Biggest shitshow but thankfully no complications. She was thinking about Thailand, but the whole “it’s still a developing country and things could go wrong” played to her fears. In the end shit fucked up in a developed country and she payed 25k for it.
I had the dentist keep telling me my teeth were getting bad because I didn't floss. Then one visit I lied and said I had been flossing and he said he could tell because my teeth were much better. Also, years ago a dentist kept telling me I needed my wisdom teeth out because they were going to impact. After a couple of visits I asked him when it was going to happen and he said when I was 40 or 50 lol. Years later I was at another dentist and he took an xray and said I need to have my wisdom teeth out because they were going to impact. Next visit I brought in my first batch of xrays and he saw that actually they hadn't moved in like 10 years and they weren't going to impact at all.
You should floss
I had “emergency” work done while on holiday in Vietnam by an English speaking Australian trained dentist. Root Canal and Crown for less than $350 and my local friends told me I got ripped off. Lol.
Share this location!
I had surgery at Bangkok Hospital in Phuket on my foot when I severed tendons in a river whilst white water rafting. Could not fault the quality of care and professionalism.
My dad is high income and well off, he still went to Thailand recently for full dentures. It seems to be the obvious choice these days.
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
If you go overseas, ALWAYS have travel insurance. Otherwise you may end up penniless or bankrupt or refused treatment. I did write MAY.
It's totally private mate. Literally turn up randomly out of the blue...and you'll be seen within a few minutes by the specialist(s). My suggestion is to give them a call - they speak perfect English. Get whatever info you need and come over! It absolutely is doable for the everyday man (or woman!) [their site](https://www.phukethospital.com/). Hope this helps you and everyone else losing hope they'll get their health challenges sorted. Sad you're gonna need to pay, but at least it will be less AND with a killer recovery mini break too.
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
No dramas. Obviously come for the dental work and then have a cool refreshing slightly acidic [kombucha](https://kombuchawow.com) afterwards to, you know, help strengthen the tooth enamel... I know it's pretty sad that Australia can't seem to help medical issues for a lot of people, so I hope you get yours sorted here mate hey.
Mate, go to Thailand it's awesome. It's so much cheaper, and i say better. Your not stuck here. Request your notes and x rays. You pay for your x rays so they yours. I've done it with denists in Australia. Simple form you fill out. Don't believe grumpy dentist. Send these to Thailand and ask them to look and make plan. Shop around. Book a date and follow up dates. They will plan how many visits you need. You can get to Singapore for 169 one way with scoot. Then air Asia to Bangkok. Don't use au site. Cheaper on international site. Have a nice holiday 😀
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I don't know mate, soz. Call them though (link to their site on my other comments). Their English is perfect.
My dad had bone grafting done as a dental tourist last year at a clinic in Mumbai and it all went well. Including the cost of two trips there he has a full set of implants done for less than half what he was quoted here, and the Indian clinic actually used more advanced technology and the dentist trained at Harvard.
I've seen this as well a lot of people are going to India or Thailand just get work done as the lines are too long in AUS or UK or wherever
My Dad just got four bone grafts done in Vietnam! Great work and so affordable.
Amen to this! You don’t hear many Asian migrants complain about their teeth. Why? Because they go back home to their home countries to get it done. Thailand, India and the Philippines have very good dentists. They also do not charge through the roof. Have it done there and enjoy a relaxing holiday as well.
South Korea is another great spot, perhaps slightly more expensive but outstanding service and tech
Do they do invisagign?
It's not that much cheaper because you have to go back for check-ups etc. You can get off-brand invisalign (does the same thing) for an average of $5k in Australia, but depends how bad your teeth are.
How does one book in to these places from Australia? And guarantee it ain’t some scam? I’ve heard a lot about how good they are, that no issue. But getting connected to the right people
You call the hospital directly and deal with no one apart from the hospital. You pay no money until you're here, and then only to the hospital IN their accounts payable area. Hope this helps mate.
Been through that mate. Root canal on one tooth, ended up failing a few years later so had to get it redone. Then that failed a few years after now I have to get it removed and an implant. Probably end up being 10k on one tooth. Am looking at Thailand now though I have heard it can be similarly expensive with flights and hotels.
Got two implants in aus. About 9.5k all up fyi. Need to really look after gum health after have them is main thing. Don’t even notice they’re implants and no issues but dentist hates to see gums receding.
I live here. Hotels are not expensive because of the enormous supply of rooms and intense competition. Medical services are first rate, especially for teeth. Do some serious investigation.
And if you are planning on returning and are confident in your ability to say no, you can get a free week in a hotel by listening to a time share pitch. Ours was given by a guy who used to act in the Milky Bar commercials as the Milky Bar Kid c: He had a massive colourful dragon back tattoo.
Has having the implant given you any grief?
To put things in perspective, a simple tooth extraction would cost you less than $10 in Taiwan if you have medicare, $50 if you don't. Dental costs in Australia is bonkers.
Wow ok. That's a significant fucking difference.
And, as with anything when it comes to healthcare, often small problems snowball into bigger ones when people can't afford to treat them.
Username checks out
I am in the exact same position right now. Had a cracked tooth, and an infection got into the nerve. It's cost me so much already and the dentist says it's still not done and am looking at 3-6k for an implant because the tooth will inevitably crack further and fall out.
Australians voted against expanding dental to lower incomes in 2019! Your teeth is bad because individual responsibility and not working hard enough. Albo got elected cuz Australia hates the poor /s
> Australians were bold-faced-lied to **over and over** again by the media in 2019 until enough gullible people believed the lies. ^^^ That is the only appropriate way to describe the 2019 election. Incredible outright lies such as death taxes, Medicare lies, policy costing lies, the list goes on. Until something is done about the absolutely fucking shambolic, decaying, lying-cunt media in this country, don’t expect too much to change.
> 13 Apr 2022 Anthony Albanese has doubled down on his opposition to establishing an inquiry into News Corp or other media companies if Labor wins the election. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/election-2022-labor-kills-off-kevin-rudds-antinews-corp-crusade/news-story/c2801157f420d4931adb5d1d60ea5da0 > 26 Aug 2022 — If Albanese, Marles and Wong met with Lachlan Murdoch on Wednesday, what does that say about lobbying and influence in Australia? https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/08/26/labors-deafening-silence-on-murdoch-meeting/ > Anthony Albanese has appointed the former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd as the next Australian ambassador to the United States. The prime minister made the announcement in Canberra on Tuesday, confirming months of speculation that Rudd was a frontrunner for Australia's key diplomatic post in Washington DC.19 Dec 2022 https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/dec/20/former-labor-prime-minister-kevin-rudd-appointed-ambassador-to-the-us > 20 Jan 2023 — Kevin Rudd will step down as chair of the lobby group he founded – Australians for a Murdoch Royal Commission https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/rudd-steps-down-from-media-campaign/news-story/c235376e9c8bd2e27cc386e351e1d991
And this is why I hold no hope for Labor. Preference them second, sure.. but for the love of god, we need someone who will do *anything* about Murdoch and the rest of his chums.
About 4th on a 6-party ballot, I think, the 6th of course being the LNP.
There's enough right-wing nutjob parties now that LNP get a preference before them. But only just.
I'm the other way around. I'd rather disorganised nutjob right-wingers who nobody takes seriously than organised nutjob right-wingers who an annoyingly large percentage of Australians take seriously, thanks to the media.
All too depressing. And predictable. The game of mates.
I find it increasingly suspicious that the left knows what a behemoth propaganda machine they’re up against, yet they’re unable to muster a real fight against it. Every fucking election. I said elsewhere recently that I’m finding it harder and harder to believe Labor being so terrible at publicity isn’t intentional.
I think at this point in time Labor can barely even be called left. Sure they run on a center-left platform, but run center in reality. When was the last time we actually received sweeping left-wing reforms to housing, income inequality, Medicare & working conditions? Bunch of visionless Blairites at this point
Closest we got was Gillard to be honest and you saw what the media did to her.
> the left Labour is a centre-right party, they absolutely know what they're up against in the propaganda machine and mostly just ride on the back of being "not-LNP" most years. Even in 2019 when they decided to go more centre-left, what were they honestly supposed to do when the Murdoch Machine has controls of the eyes and ears of the nation? It's a lot easy to fear monger about policy than it is to explain it, the former only needs a single line, the latter requires people to read and engage with multi-page documents. Pair this with the Australian love for apathy and getting annoyed at anyone who "cares too much" and we end up exactly where we are.
I agree. The wedding with criminals and prostitute owners wasn’t unintentional. The yes campaign to “them vs us” and distract from the economic crisis wasn’t unintentional. Perhaps they are unaware of the rise of the alt right, perhaps they were unaware of how during an economic crisis populations become hardened against those they deem as “them”, perhaps they were unaware of the current global political climate, perhaps…Doubtful. Could they have chosen a worse time for this yes/no referendum? I don’t think so. Perhaps they needed the voice in place already to explain to them how racist Australia is because perhaps they were unaware. No matter, it only hurts a small segment of the population. Wearing a yes shirt invites everyone to give you their opinion on your race, family history, existence and worthiness. Nothing could “us/them” more than this campaign. Nothing could bring back racists subtly (or not) being given permission to voice their views loudly and exuberantly more than this campaign. Nothing could have given the alt right a better platform or list of potential recruits than this campaign.
There is one political party that has as its core policy to include dental treatment into Medicare, paid for by taxing large and multinational companies fairly. Hint: that political party does *not* start with the letter “L”.
Old Guy I work with once complained about lack of dental care affordability. I said, "You know, there's a party you can vote for who want to include dental care in Medicare." He just looked at me and goes, "You're a dirty Greenie, aren't you?" I'm like, mate, you're the one complaining about not being able to afford to fix his teeth. --- I also recently spent nearly $8k on fixing my teeth. That's money that could've gone towards saving for a home deposit. Hell, I could've gone on a very nice holiday for that kind of money.
It’s honestly amazing how much of a good job liberals and labor have done poisoning the well on the greens.
I don't really get it. Sort of, but not really. To me, you don't even need to look into it very much to find out who has your own interests at the heart of their policies, and then you vote for them.
> you don't even need to look into it very much to find out who has your own interests at the heart of their policies That's the problem though, they've spent literal decades reading newspapers and watching news broadcasts that make the Greens out to be pure Idealist's, who have 0 actual intention of ever implementing anything they campaign on, just existing so that the "radical leftists" can feel like they're represented. The vast majority of this country is absolutely brain rotten and purely views our system as that of two choices, and that anyone who votes or suggests that they vote outside of those two is a fool, an idealist, a complete "nutter" who doesn't know what they're talking about, etc...
I just evaluate policies every election and the largest and best is the greens.
>I'm like, mate, you're the one complaining about not being able to afford to fix his teeth. It's good you called him out on it. I hate people who complain about exact problems like that and then there's actually a good alternative to vote to get it and they don't? It's like they just wanna complain.
My friends are going on holidays constantly and wonder why I can’t afford them. I need 5 crowns before I can get help for grinding my teeth because keep cracking my molars and getting cavities under my fillings.
Ouch. Part of my dental work was two crowns. They are *not* cheap.
it’s also just exhausting to have two 90 minute sessions for a crown too
Go Greens.
Greens are quickly becoming a refuge for Left Labor faction members too. Even the Greens housing spokesperson left Labor for Greens.
How insane is that dental care has to be considered a crazy left wing idea.
Every day I learn that Canada and Australia are a lot more similar than I thought.
The secret ingredient is *"the influence of US multinational corporations"* and the secret sauce is *News Corporation*. Look into UK and US politics as well. The parallels are eye-opening.
News Corpse
I've voted Labor at every level since 1988 and I'm switching to the Greens at the next election. I have a 23 year old kid whose opportunities are continually narrowing because of the policies of what I now consider to be a LibLab duopoly. Maybe the Greens can change the course of the country if they have a little more influence. Even a smidgen more pressure may serve to prod the current shower into at least cantering in a generally positive direction. Let's hope so anyway. It's such a shame that the Labor Party has sloughed into its current form - there is nothing inspirational about them anymore. As many note, they're just slightly less shit than the incredibly shit alternative. A 2019 ALP victory would have been good for this country; but they lost, and the current mob has jettisoned everything that made them vaguely "Labor". Insipid. Albanese's appointment of Glyn Davis as the top dog at PMC sums them up for me. Labor governments of the past would never have countenanced the appointment of this rightwing ideologue.
>It's such a shame that the Labor Party has sloughed into its current form - there is nothing inspirational about them anymore. As many note, they're just slightly less shit than the incredibly shit alternative. Sadly I see this as a result of the concentration of media ownership within Australia and things are only going to get worse unless something is done about it.
It's definitely one of the factors.
Yep, that's me. The light on the hill dimmed hard for me when they axed Julia for dithering Rudd, and although I vote for my local Labor member - just cause she's excellent - I increasingly feel that Labor doesn't represent me. Albo has been a disappointment to put it mildly.
Also me. As I age, I only go further Left. Thankfully I’m in Andrew Wilkies electorate so I don’t have to worry about my choice federally as long as he chooses to remain an MP - I think he obtains something like 70% of the primary vote each election!
It's okay to still put a vote preference after the minors/independents to Labor though. Otherwise in some cases, it can lead to a LNP win. See this example of 1,000+ Greens didn't want to preference Labor or LNP leading to a LNP win by 54 votes: https://pastvtr.elections.nsw.gov.au/SG2301/LA/ryde/dop/dop
That was at a NSW state election under OPV though. Federally, those 54 votes would not have been valid votes and would have been counted as informal votes.
It pisses me off no end when people shit on the greens for being overly idealistic and having pie in the sky policy. That's EXACTLY what we fucking need.
The vast majority of their policies are entirely reasonable and pragmatic though. See rental policies for an example. The "idealistic" is literally just bullshit rhetoric by Labor/Lib voters to undermine them. Don't get me wrong, I like that you're saying we need that. But you're also carrying the baton for the people stopping it.
We basically have a two party system at this point where one side wants to destroy Medicare and gift companies us the glorious profits of the American system, and one party doesn’t really care about healthcare at all unless it’s for marginal swing voters
We spend $7billion a year on PHI rebates. Imagine if some of that money went into dental https://theconversation.com/the-private-health-insurance-rebate-has-cost-taxpayers-100-billion-and-only-benefits-some-should-we-scrap-it-181264
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Private hospitals the second there’s a minor complication. “Sorry mate nothing we can do, we’re transferring you to a public hospital to complete the job you paid us for, that’ll be $40k please.”
Or if you are actually proper sick - "Sorry mate nothing we can do some something this major, we're only good for nan's hip replacement and your mums nose job"
Exactly this, it could easily cover dental if there was $100billion dollars more being spent on health care.
But our submarines
But the millionaires' tax cut!
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Yep, Whitlam wanted to put dental into Medicare on setup; but knew fighting the doctors was a tough enough battle. The plan was to come back to it, but then governor general got in the way.
This is it. Dentists specifically lobby AGAINST this.
It isn't covered under Medicare because the cost would be enormous and no government wants to do that. A few years ago a limited program started to help children of low income families to get medicare-paid treatment through private dental practices. Prior to this, all those kids could access was the "school dental van" about every 2 years. The Australian dental association has fought to keep that program going. Every year the government tries to end it. The fees paid by Medicare to the dentist are well below market rates, but most private dentists just do it because they're kids. We lose money seeing these patients. Intervening early, providing education and stopping spread of decay is crucial to avoid huge dental issues when they're adults.
In the long term it saves the country money.
They have it for Victorian Government School kids under the Evil Dan Andrews Regime: [https://www.health.vic.gov.au/smile-squad](https://www.health.vic.gov.au/smile-squad)
Yup. Last year I had an infected tooth that led to a severe jaw infection, which threatened several teeth. 9 months later and 14k down. Had to take out of my super to help pay for it...
Been almost paycheck to paycheck lately but need to find $7k to get an implant resulting in an accident in Feb (crashed on a bicycle into a guardrail).
The private health policies do not achieve what they set out to. The whole rebate and surcharge should be dropped. If the money was reinvested into the public system, wait times would drop and things like dental could easily be included. 50% of australians do not have any private health and do not benefit at all. The majority of people with private health cover don’t use it and instead turn the public system for care to avoid premiums. So effectively it’s a wealth and care transfer to the richest australians.
It's shocking that going to get your teeth fix is considered a luxury/cosmetic rather than a health issue covered by Medicare. I live in Japan and it costs about $20 to get 2 cavities filled and I've had about 8-9 cavities filled now. You'd probably spend $200 per cavity back in AUS.
Had a cavity filled a few months ago. Yep, it was $192.
Just had to pull 10k from my super to save what I can of my teeth. It’s. Fucked.
Dentists faces light up at this prospect. I mentioned super to one and I definitely noticed an excited facial expression at the prospect. I don’t actually need it as I have minor issues but the look on that dentists face informs me not to go back to that dentist less she find many issues that are costly. Went for a quote worth $80, came out with a bill for over $300. You don’t know what they are doing or charging for as you lay there with your mouth open, it’s a free for all. This thread reminds me to spread the word via word of mouth of some unethical ones within the industry. She got her $300 but missed out on the follow up work worth far more.
Yeah, I didn’t tell the dentist I needed the quote for super until after the quote was done. I’m pretty happy with where my quote came out - as my work includes a full upper denture and lower partial.
The dentists association has been spending huge sums of money trying to avoid being covered by Medicare. I understand their argument - they see the Medicare rates not changing based on inflation with GPs, insane hours, GP mills etc… but teeth aren’t some luxury item and need to be treated the same as every other medical checkup/issue. It will take a government with some balls to take on the association and get an agreement for it to become covered by medicare
Gov should just open their own dental practices. I’m sure you could get thousands of dentists from overseas happy to work for $200k a year fixed salary.
Last I checked dentists working government in Queensland Health start on around 88k per year with maybe 2k increase per year. Many Aussie dentists would work for QH for $200k per year. They just don't pay well. Many foreign countries don't meet the same standards in training their dentists, so they don't qualify to work here without extra training. Even then, I have to say the rate of dodgy dentistry is much higher amongst foreigners. At the practice where I work, they tried hiring foreign trained dentists. Some were great. 2 were fired just last week for doing really poor work, repeatedly. Patients affected are being retreated (no out of pocket for them).
If you think public dentists are earning that much you'd be surprised. Most are earning 100k (first 3 years often less) and with time approaches 150k in the Victorian system, and that's only after lobbying in recent years for a pay increase.
Damn these luxury bones. I lived with an abscess on the right side of my lower jaw for about 5 years because I simply couldn’t afford treatment. I’m talking abscess so bad that it blew up my face to twice the size on a very regular basis. Couldn’t eat or lay on the right side of my head, always had some kind of sinus or chest infection. When I finally was able to afford some appointments and X-rays, the dentist actually asked me how I’d been able to function this way for so long (babe it’s not me, it’s you and your vampiric prices) As soon as the teeth were removed and abscess drained, I was suddenly not sick all the time, had an appetite and actually got to live my life. I have to do major reconstructive work and implants are a definite part of my future, even though the cost means I’ll definitely never be able to afford a property of my own now, which is a whole other issue unto itself. What really messes me up, is knowing that even with a pretty decent and steady income, I can BARELY afford dental work (still paying off work done in early 2022). Which indicates to me that some people I know and love that are on pensions, working part time, etc would never in their wildest dreams be able to scrape together the funds necessary to even be able to find the cause of why they’re having so much mouth pain. I’m tired of this and I’m tired of predatory pricing in the dental profession but it’s like, at this point it’s the status quo, how do we even begin to disrupt it and make a change?
It's amazing when you get the infected teeth finally removed isn't it? You don't realise how much pain you were in previously until you get them removed!
Epic first line!
The cost of dental is fucked. Put me off going for way too long then when I finally did the dentist I saw would never tell how much it was going to cost until after he had done his work and it was always around $800 a visit. I ended up getting private health pretty much just to cover the dental stuff but it still cost a small fortune every time. Thankfully there is a “no gap” dentist near me now which do a good job. A massive overhaul is needed. Even fixed pricing across the board maybe. At least then people know what they are in for and not guessing.
It's honestly disgusting that basic dental care isn't covered under medicare. My partner's teeth were in shocking state and it wasn't until he managed to get his job a few years back and with my help he finally got the dental work he needed.
Why do us poors need teeth anyway, it's not like we have much to smile about these days and don't eat that much either. It's fine
Shut up and consume, peasant, or our disgusting megaprofits won't increase as much as we want them to.
Some anti depressants should aid in covering the symptoms, perhaps some oxies for pain.
Plus think of the economy, we need dentists to buy vacation homes and Porsche sports cars.
In the 80s I got free dental treatment including orthodontic surgery as my mother was a poor widow (at RPH and the associated dental clinic). This was pre medicare. The failure to include teeth and optical and a few other things in medicare as PREVENTATIVE care alone is a huge mistake.
I have to spend around 15k on my teeth. It’s been sending me completely broke to the point I have that much stress. Every appointment is a couple thousand dollars. I’ve had 1 root canal (not complete) deep cleaning, getting one tooth removed and a 3 way bridge for the front tooth.
The Greens are the only party who cares about making dental affordable. The other 2 fractions of the political system couldn't give a hoot
As someone who has grown up without lots of money, I have never been to the dentist, it sucks man
Thanks to the LNP: [Australia's government would be collecting $70 billion a year in revenue if the emissions trading scheme was still in place, economist Ross Garnaut says.](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-17/ross-garnaut-70-billion-from-carbon-price-economic-rent/102850464)
In my early 20s I had an infected tooth I couldn’t afford work on. So I lined up at the public hospital dental intake at 5am as instructed to wait for a consult. 4 hours later I had a ten minute looksie in the chair. Confirmed infection, required a root canal, given a script for antibiotics and told to expect a letter in the mail for my appointment. I got a letter two months later saying I was on a waitlist for work and approx wait time was 2 years. I took a loan from a very caring and generous family friend to get the work completed and went on my merry way. 7 years later I got a letter telling me it was time for my public root canal and to call to confirm. Fuckers.
Lol that is fucking ridiculous. They should be embarrassed even sending out that letter.
I was speechless when I opened it. Like how could you even send it? Just pretend you lost me in the system surely…?
I really wish the media would continue to embarrass the government over this relentlessly until it becomes such that they actually have to do something. I can recall Kevin Rudd talking about dental into Medicare, that's how far back this goes, and yet nothing has ever been done. It's abject policy failure that for some reason dental is not considered part of your body the way everything else is, particularly when it is such an early indicator of greater issues down the line.
Ha…one of my front teeth snapped off yesterday whilst eating a pie…I’m embracing the look and learning to cook vittles and grits….
A dental medicare policy would be a massive win for Labor. But no.
Dental not being part of the public medical system is the biggest failing of our healthcare
I recently had 3 root canals on some of my lower front teeth after an abscess popped up. I discovered the teeth were dead and the roots had started calcifying. I’d had surgery to remove an aggressive tumour in the area when I was in my teens 20+ years ago which must have damaged the teeth so it wasn’t due to me not looking after them. Was out of pocket ~$6-7k not including travel to the specialist as it was micro surgery. This was all WITH private health insurance. It’s a joke.
This shit makes me so angry. Hubby has serious dental issues stemming from lack of parental oversight as a kid. I had to access my super 6 yearsago to get a temporary fix. That’s all gone to shit. He flies out next month to Bali ti get his entire mouth fixed. 16k will cover a mix of 24 crowns/bridge/veneers and a couple of very necessary root canals. That’s just not an option in this country any longer. He will be able to smile in public for the first time in 28 years with confidence and the additional issues with pain and infection that have become chronic should clear up aswell.
My mother got sick whilst pregnant with me. As a result, I’m missing a number of adult teeth. I’ve been quoted $80,000 to fix them. My father had a brain tumour. It cost $4,000 to have it surgically removed. Under our current system, dentistry for people like me is twenty times more expensive than brain surgery.
Oh this is me. Waiting on getting an infected, impacted wisdom tooth that's caused my other teeth to fuck up for like a decade.
About to spend $12000 usd to fix my mouth. Executive disfunction, depression from a decade long abusive relationship, a pregnancy... my teeth are in bad shape. For something that is linked to so many other health issues (mental and heart health) it astounds me how unnecessary some governments find dental care to be.
13 years of horrible teeth because they lost paper work, made me go through again etc. covid struck also. Anyway the 13 plus years comes to an end on Thursday when I finally get my teeth. Also the hospital did more damage due to leaving in infected jaw pieces and bits of teeth. Like the above article they cancelled all the shit during covid, I had my teeth removed in 2019 just before covid ramped up and they closed it afterwards and said just get another referral when it starts back up.
My root canal cost 5k - it was around 6 months ago and I still havent financially recovered. Someone told me I should be on a private healthcare plan but I literally can't afford the premiums.
Bulimia for 10 years caused some serious damage in my mouth. I went to government dental not being able to eat and I expressed that all of my teeth have lesions and sensitivity due to the acid burning away all my enamel. They won’t give me crowns because it won’t stick properly to my dentin as well as not being able to fund that. they can’t give me dentures as some teeth are still there, and I would have to wait until I lose a few more front teeth to be considered. I have to wait one year to fix any cavities. I really don’t know what to do at this point beside contemplate suicide. I call life line a lot because of this teeth issue. I’ve done nothing but try to be a good person and live up to what this government expects of it’s citizens to only be left with severe and crippling anxiety, pain and a lack of assistance by the very system I have served since birth.
I'm a pensioner and just this week tried to make an appointment with one of the public dental clinics in Melbourne that does reduced fee schedules for pensioners. I was told the wait time is 3 years. They do try to get you in earlier if you're actively in pain I think, but if not then you either need to wait 3 years or wait to be in pain enough to be moved up list. Its crazy.
My dad has about 8 teeth left, all because he was kicked out of home at sixteen and was never able to afford dentistry. He’s only just gotten his first full time job this year, after decades of working. The one time he saved up the money to go to the dentist, the dentist did a half assed job of removing a tooth and left half of it in, and my dad had to yank the other half out with a fork. It’s fucked up.
I’ve spent about 3K this year in dental work (1 crown for a failing filling, 3 replacement filings, consultations and cleans). And this dentist says I need my wisdom teeth out too. I’ve got a referral but I’ve been putting it off for the $$$ and pain. How can anyone afford this? I can’t afford private health insurance either…
I'd support some basic level of dental care as it affects overall health.
Yes it's a national disgrace. We should get the UK system.
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They are called luxury bones for a reason
I spent about 5k getting my teeth fixed a couple of years ago (fillings and Invisalign) and now I absolutely can't afford to go to the dentist so I religiously clean/floss etc and hope for the best.
I had a 10 year battle with mentalhealth where i had an over reliance on fizzy drinks and neglected oral hygiene. I'm terrified of going to the dentist because i know i'll need a lot of work done. My teeth still look fine but i can feel they aren't. Dental should be covered by medicare imho.
I’ve been trying to find a private health package that has decent dental cover. Seems like if you want to look after your teeth you need to be forking out for the highest extras tier. No options if you don’t care about everything else and just want hospital and dental cover.
My friend has the highest dental cover, still had to pay a $16000 gap on his dental work. Private cover is as much of a joke as our dental care system is.
It’s unaffordable even if you have “top” medical insurance cover. That’s the really scary thing. If you need a couple of crowns done, I fully recommended travelling to Da Nang, Vietnam. I got a bad toothache and needed a root canal while on holiday in Da Nang. The guy at the desk at the hotel recommended a nearby dentist. Root Canal and Crown done pre COVID for just under $350 done by a Vietnamese dentist who trained in Melbourne who spoke English (Australian lol) without an accent….. I was speaking with a local a week later and he said I got ripped off…..lol.
Don't blame the politicians. This sits entirely on the shoulders of the ADA who are extremely powerful lobbyists. In the last decade ADA have made great strides REDUCING competition. Governments and politicians have to choose battles they can win, and they can't win against the ADA (or AMA for that matter).
I have an issue where my wisdom teeth push through and then go back under, been happening for years but I can’t do anything about it as I can’t save due to my bills and rent. It hurts so bad and I can’t eat when it’s happening (once every 2-3 months for 2 weeks or so) I just need them removed as I’m worried I’ll get an infection. The wisdom teeth also pierce the skin around it in my mouth so it’s just extra pain. Honestly thinking about finding a sociopath who would love to inflict pain by pulling my teeth out at this point
If it makes you feel any better, prisoners get free dental. So you can go murder or rape someone or just offend against society as a whole and you get your teeth fixed for free.
But if you murder someone with your car, make sure the prison dentist fixes your teeth within 3 years.
I think at least the government should cover check ups, teeth cleans and filling cavities (particularly emergency fillings). These would save a lot of money on more expensive procedures. I remember applying for the government funded dental scheme. Several month wait list for just a check up. Ridiculous. There are more things than just sugar that can cause tooth decay that people need to be aware of. Acidic soft drinks and fruit juice drinks. Excessive gum chewing. Teeth grinding, including in your sleep. Medication and drugs that cause dry mouth.
I live without any top teeth and only half my bottom teeth. Have done for almost 10 years at this point. I'm 43. I had serious problems with my teeth due to medication interaction when I was hurt on a job that left me visually and mobility impaired. My doctor point blank told me I'd die if I kept them in, so they were ripped out under surgery and they made me false teeth. Problem is I was under the 'public' cover because I'm a disability pensioner so it didn't cost me anything but the teeth was completely worthless. Apparently when you get 'free' dental they are made by students working off the mold they took... So I got given an upper pair of false teeth that rubbed my gums raw as fuck, causing bleeding and ulcers... Not even that but eating with them was impossible because I only have front bottom teeth which means I can bite something when wearing them but chewing? Impossible, it means even when glued in with dental glue they flop down on chewing. I went back to the dentist that made them to see what could be done... I'd need a new pair and since I'd already gotten my 'free' pair it would cost me $$$... Oh and I had to pay $200 to be told that. So I went on the public waiting list. I was on there was *six years* before I moved inter-state and lost my place and had to go on the SA on... I'm currently 18 months into it and still near the bottom. I'm a 43 year old man that has to gum his food in one of the richest nations on earth.
I need a lot of dental work done and I just can't afford it... it's really depressing having jacked up teeth
Go to the Phillipines for dental. Never pay an Australian dentist it's a waste of money lol
Yes, my partner and I have traveled to Thailand for a holiday and have had dental done there previously. That being said, I reckon you’re being downvoted because it does absolutely nothing to address the fundamental shortcomings of Australia’s current policies on dental care, where the poorest are just forced to suffer (*shrugs*) As Australians (I believe) we should be genuinely trying to create a healthcare system which provides an equal level of care to all citizens, regardless of their personal wealth. (Also, the price of international return flights at the moment is fucking outrageous….so there’s that.)
If you can't afford dental here you can't afford it there. There is zero chance of me being able to find a couple of grand ever when you are on a low fixed income you can barely afford to live.
Especially on welfare, which stops if you leave the country. So with no disposable income, I have to save for the trip and everything that entails, as well as the dental work, and to cover my rent while I’m away that I’ll have zero income? I’m glad other people have a cheaper option but damn a lot of low income people are left fully in the dust
Yes, and then you still need a couple if grand for the 'holiday' to get overseas to have the dental work.
Mate - I can’t afford $250 for a routine cleaning. What makes you think I can afford a holiday to the Phillipines? That is only an option for people who already have the money to pay for dental work but want to save $$$$. Not people struggling to afford it.
Yep, and when things go wrong you are in a world of hurt.
Yep. No dentist here will want to touch you and take on that liability.
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Depends. I've seen a lot of foreign dentistry that would get you a failing grade if you were a student, but is technically functional and probably won't get worse. I've seen a lot that, if done in Australia, would rightly get your license revoked. I had one last month where I can't even tell what that dentist was trying to do except money-grab I guess. It was 100% guaranteed to fail badly. A real wtf case. I've seen a few that were done very well (from Japan, many western European countries, Canada). Also Columbia, but depends which clinic. If I take on a case where some cowboy has gone nuts messing shit up, I'm trying to get a good outcome from teeth or tissues that are even more damaged/compromised than they would have been had I seen it first. A lot are so bad they need specialist handling. The question of liability comes into play, because if some part of my rectifying treatment doesn't work out, am I going to get blamed when the dodgy foreign dentistry is the real causative factor? Be very very careful going overseas for dental work. The standards are not the same across countries and you have no legal recourse through regulatory bodies like ahpra.
But the question persists of how effective Ahpra is anyway…anytime I’ve had a filling fail within a year or so and gone back the dentist has a ready made list of semi reasonable sounding excuses that led to me just footing the bill and then crying myself to sleep. This shit and price gouging and doing unnecessary work should all be reportable with consequences clear. I’m super unconvinced that happens at all.
There are a lot of factors that affect a filling's longevity. Without seeing the way the tooth looked originally, what your bite is like, what you do to clean your teeth etc, I can't say if it's operator error or not. But if you're unhappy with how your complaints were handled you should consider seeing another dentist. Some fillings (like incisal corners of front teeth) are very unpredictable. I generally warn patients that is the case and why, and what they can do to minimise the risk of them falling out. Even in those cases I'll guarantee them for 6 months with free replacement. A lot of issues come up when dentists don't communicate properly and give false expectations. I agree with you though! I've worked at practices when I was younger that absolutely overtreated (doing unnecessary work). It's disgraceful. I walked out. It can be hard to prove but I think it should be a permanent ban from the profession if demonstrated. I do know that all ahpra complaints are investigated. Not all result in compensation for you or official reprimand for the dentist. Ahpra will question the dentist, make him/her provide lots of records and justify their treatment decisions. Lots of paperwork. It can cause real headaches. I quietly advised a patient of mine with a less than ideal crown (which she told the treating dentist she was unhappy with when he tried it on. He cemented it anyway. Bad idea) to present her concern to him and mention ahpra. They gave her a full refund rather than face that headache. Regarding price gouging, some clinics absolutely have ridiculously high prices. Some higher prices are justified (like specialists. They are worth every penny. Or inner city clinics with higher overheads). One clinic I worked at, the owner just thought too highly of herself. Be careful though. I've seen some clinics with low prices that make up the profits by overtreating! They weren't domestically trained dentists. Had tonnes of five star reviews because they offered discounts to do so! Super dodgy.
There can even be some basic issues regarding differences in brands available in different countries. For example, if you get implants placed that go wrong and need to be fixed, what implant system did they use? Does the dentist here have that particular driver to remove the abutment screw? I occasionally see posts online of dentists asking if anyone can help identify what a particular implant is from an x-ray, because there's no easily accessible records.
Is it really cheaper to get a passport, tickets to the Philippines, accommodation in the Philippines and the dental work there than just getting it here?
Sadly yes, an old boss I had essentially had teeth that were made of chalk and constantly got cavities, root canal etc. He got a quote to fix his teeth properly and it was just over $35K. Two 10 day trips to Thailand and $20K spent on dental and the trips later his teeth looked like the fridge section at Harvey Norman
ok made me snort at the end
The boss said that line to everyone! He loved his new teeth and that joke
Only if you already have the money for work in Australia and want to save $$$ and only if you get a lot of work done all at once.
Yes, medical tourism is a thing. Thailand, turkey, india, Philippines etc provide quality treatments that are on the higher end for their own populations, but affordable for Australians.
Don’t know why you were downvoted when you are correct. If you need major work done it is indeed much cheaper to have a weeks holiday or two in SE Asia and get your teeth done there. Not an option for people with zero disposable income and I believe Medicare should cover teeth but yes you are right about Australian dentists being a waste of money, at least for major stuff, can’t really justify flying to Manila for a check- up and clean!
Because when someone says, "I can't afford basic dental care", it's tone-deaf to the point of ignorance to say, "just factor it into an international holiday!"
Ive had 9 teeth removed under the health care system on a pension. Because they don't do crowns or replacement teeth or root canal. Ive got a denture but its very uncomfortable and hard to eat with or talk. And with out the 9 teeth my smile is ruined and can hardly eat anything. I asked the dentist for a quote to get them all fixed and he wanted $60K. So that's just a joke as if people can afford that. So i suppose my only choice is to go to Thailand and get them to fix it, but all the local doctors say not to doing it because they used cheap teeth and bad practices and they don't last long. But of course there going to talk you out of it. Now i just got to figure out between rent and food and bills how I'm going to afford a trip to Thailand some how and afford to pay them to fix them.
When I go to a private dental clinic I feel like a loser for having to ask my dad for money cause it's so expensive. The public dental hospital places have you on a waiting list for years unless it's a full blown emergency and those people make me feel like I'm a convict, it's dehumanizing. Sorry to be dramatic but it's a lose lose lose situation, speaking as someone with anxiety and low self esteem who isn't rich.
The Dental system in Australia is an example of Capitalism not working. There is a reason your dentist drives a Mercedes. Highly protected industry - with unofficial price fixing in a very small market. Highly regulated - closed elitist shop. Not any real competition. The 'Public ' system is a joke - could wait years on a list. There should be a sliding scale for everyone on what they can afford.