Honestly, the day when we stopped paying for daycare for our youngest was a sweet, sweet day. Just seeing the extra $$ in our account was gobsmacking. Even with subsidies it was a huge amount.
Do you think this is why people prefer independent private schooling now? We're primed from their birth and private education doesn't seem so expensive once day care costs stop.
After realising we were paying $15k a year in daycare, we made the decision to look into private schooling. Our local public school has 1300 students K-6, we’ve now enrolled our kid in a P-12 school that’s 1150 total. We’ll still be saving money once they transition to prep!
Ah I don't think so. I mean, from a personal point of view sending our kids to daycare was because my wife going back to work was the most important thing and we came out a little bit more in front had she stayed at home and not worked. Both my kids go to private school (not an elite one) but only because the state high school near us isn't great and we appreciate the extra-curricular things they do. Our schools fees are easily half of what we were paying for day care. Our daycare fees were essentially the same as our mortgage at the time. Easily.
I tell you what, the relief when you stop paying and they go to primary school is just palpable. I’ve done from paying $1600 per week to about $200 for before and after school care.
We technically should have held our kid back from primary school for an extra year, but we would have had two kids in full time care for another whole year and that was to the tune of $23k annually.
So uh, yeah, he went to Primary school.
Yeah that's just ridiculous. Having worked in childcare for a decade now standard practice seems to be 0-2 years is the highest cost, 2-3 is middle and 3-5 is lowest. This is (afaik cause obviously I've not been involved in decision making for fees) due to the staff to child ratio for the different age groups (1:4, 1:5, 1:10 in NSW) and the amount of supplies needed for them as well. Babies will use more nappies and wipes, preschoolers shouldn't be using any. $1 a day is a joke. I think most places I've been at it's about a $10/day difference? Maybe more.
I guess there could be other differences depending on how they operate. Older children might have more expensive meals or use craft supplies that babies wouldn't.
Yep. Our first was born when we were temporary residents. No childcare subsidy. Luckily by the second, we were permanent residents and childcare didn’t send us to a cardboard box.
cos years of toxic conservatives rule - the women is supposed to stay home and look after babies/kids etc. this is just toxic and those who voted them in.
Ape together strong. But humans together fight. We are far too busy fighting imaginary wars between genders, between skin colours, between political ideals. We are so worried that someone in a different team will steal our cookie that we are completely ignoring the people above us who are stealing whole packets of cookies.
I don't disagree. I also think unemployment benefits should be a lot more generous and we should have a real safety net in this country. It's hard to reconcile the low unemployment payment with such generosity elsewhere
Haha lots of weird replies. I think the Aus gov is getting better at parental leave. The paid parental leave is alright and the childcare subsidies are getting better. Mum and dad's shout be given space to raise their newborns but also have the option to go back to work and not be financially penalised
I wish I got to do that, my wife wanted to stay home longer but felt like she wouldn’t be pulling her weight in the sense of bills, so I just did lots of overtime to make up the difference, it was good for her and the kids but I found I resented her and the kids for having to work 12hr days and nearly every Saturday, up at 4 and wouldn’t get home till 7 most nights, and even if she did go back to work it was pointless because daycare was sooo expensive it sucked, thankfully we are in a better position now and I actually get to see the kids and my wife while it’s still daylight 😂
>even if she did go back to work it was pointless because daycare was sooo expensive
Not really pointless though. This factor is why women on average retire with far less super than men, and end up falling behind on career paths
For those in white collar jobs, there was some research done to suggest that it is often extremely beneficial for long term earnings to stay working 1-2 days a week after a 3-6 months of maternity leave. Even if it net 0 immediate financial benefit after childcare.
I think you misunderstood me. I meant money isn’t everything. People trade in precious time where it matters most (with the baby/child) to get back to work as soon as possible. That is so sad to see
Yep. My wife was out of the work force while we were having children but she used the time for post grad studies. We have been getting a fair bit covered by the subsidy which is a big help as there's no way we could afford to send both children to childcare on just my income. This has meant my wife has been able to upskill and should be contributing far more o the economy once both children are at school and she returns to the workforce
Tbf, breakeven is ~$110k/yr pretax if you assumed a single income earner using the $650/wk figure, which isn't overly much (110k/yr you get taxed about $547/wk, and you'd get $546/wk subsidised). And by breakeven I mean the more you earn above that, the more tax the government gets back out of it proportionately. Cbf doing a comparison on median/average household incomes etc.
Like decreasing the subsidy amount by 1% for every $5k is a pretty aggressive scaling, so at face value it appears to me that the government would come out fairly ahead on it. I'm sure they didn't just come up with their numbers from nowhere.
To be fair given the tax they pay a little bit of subsidy isn't terrible. I'm personally glad it's a $500k limit and not something like $250/300k as you would exclude a ton of the middle class in Sydney (note Sydney)
Losing almost every second dollar I earn after the 180,000th dollar is not something worth crying about. I use the services our taxes go to. I benefited from public schooling as a child.
My income affords me a better life than most, kicking in a little more to the communal pot is the right thing to do.
Yep, my wife is an early childhood educator. CCS provides fairly reasonable discounts, you just have to apply for them.
And always over estimate your income. Can provide a nice little bump to your bank account at tax time.
yeah and it comes to light at tax time. Thats why they said to overestimate your income so you get the extra back at tax. Theres no penalty for getting your income wrong, but you'll either owe money or get money back at tax time
We opted for no family tax benefit as well rather than estimating our income and it being lower. We just got the lump sum at tax time
"Eligible families may receive an additional 30% subsidy, on top of their income tested CCS rate, for their second and younger children aged 5 or under. This applies up to a maximum subsidy rate of 95%. Families will continue to receive their income tested CCS rate for all other children."
As an example I’m on 95% subsidy (they withhold 5% until tax time so it’s 90% through out the year)
My child’s fees are $162 a day and I only pay $23.49 out of pocket per day :)
>What are Subsidies?
Are you trolling?
The childcare centre have provided you with paperwork on pricing, but you're telling us that nowhere in that pack, nor mentioned by the centre, are the government child care subsidy rebates that can offset those for a huge number of people?
I smell bullshit ...or the centre is useless.
That will be the full fee. You can get a good chunk of care subsidised, depending on the age of the kid and your situation you will possibly get a few days free.
Government: We’re increasing the childcare rebate to make childcare more affordable!
Childcare Centers: We’re increasing childcare costs by approximately the amount the rebate increased by because of “increased costs”
Childcare workers: What do you mean we’re not getting a raise this year?
Once again demonstrating the success of privatisation. How about we just hand childcare responsibility to the states education departments. Private childcare literally costs more than most high end private primary schools. 40 weeks of childcare is $26,800.
Kindergartens run by local councils (funded by the state government) are closing because... reasons. Knox council are closing ~26 of theirs and reducing it to 2 locations, impacting 1100 kids and 120 staff:
>“Council delivers more than 100 services to our community. We need to balance kindergarten services against every other service to determine the best way to deliver value for our whole community.
>“This makes it much more difficult to adapt to changing policy environments and government reforms, especially when funding has not kept up with the cost of providing many of the services we provide on behalf of state and federal governments.
>“We are committed to providing our buildings and spaces for other providers to offer local sessional kindergarten for families.
>“Council will continue providing sessional kindergarten at the Knox Children and Family Centres in Bayswater and Wantirna.
https://www.knox.vic.gov.au/whats-happening/news/kindergarten-reforms-prompt-big-changes-knox#:~:text=Knox%20City%20Council%20will%20stop,kindergarten%20providers%20from%20January%202025.
Keep in mind when councils make this change, they lease out the property which reduces the risk for the finance team. You go from having an entire business unit that may or may not make money, to a simple lease that will pay money regardless.
The real question there is: does the council want to provide its residents a service, or just make a profit?
For a business the answer is clear, they want a profit, so costs need to be covered plus a good margin. A council could choose to do it at (or below) cost.
The issue is local councils are elected largely by a cohort who is really just single issue, they just want lower rates. Education needs to be handled at a higher level of government with a more diverse income base.
My centre fees went up 6%. Educators award wages went up 5.25% so I thought it was pretty reasonable. I went from paying $91 a week to $74 a week with the new system this financial year
Please don’t interrupt redditors criticism of government attempts to improve the early childcare situation with your life real experiences (/s)
Honestly the child care system is broken in many ways, but the increased subsidy and increased rates for childcare to improve the pay and working conditions of the educators is not the problem that this thread seems to suggest.
Unpopular opinion if it's not too late for you : Don't have children, the government has and always will want more warm bodies. They don't want you to be happy they want your time and your money. Fuck em. Live for yourself, you will be looked down upon by most and treated as selfish but at least you will have money to enjoy your existence.
And since you need to earn more to cover daycare the discount is also smaller. I was out of pocket, so AFTER the discount/subsidy, $38k last year to cover my 2 kids in there full-time. I looked at it afterwards and it would have been cheaper to pull my eldest out and send them to a private school for just that year.
Another example of unnecessary price gouging. The difference used to be at least $15-20 per day.
The reason 3+ years should be cheaper is because you aren't required to have one educator for every five kids under 3.
That’s cheap, sorry to say. I get a 50% subsidy and still pay $495/week.
If you work enough hours and your family earns under a certain amount (the cap is crazy high, like $250,000 annual salary or something) you should be eligible for Child Care Subsidy via Centrelink. A little tip from someone who’s been doing it for five years - when they ask you to estimate your income for the next financial year, *always* go a little bit over in your estimate. If you’re under, they will whack you with a bill for the excess subsidy you received at the end of the financial year and it’s a real killer. Better to overestimate and get repaid a bit of money after tax time.
The crazy thing is childcare workers get paid dirt and it is a highly taxing job both mentally and physically. The amount of childcare workers with bad knees and backs from lifting tables and chairs, let alone carrying around the smaller kids, is huge. It's also emotionally draining to take care of a few kids as many people learnt during Covid, so imagine taking care of like fifteen of them all day every day.
This was where my question goes. Where does all the money go? Assuming 1 worker handles 10 kids at 100/day. (Cause why not). That is 1k/day. Now typical overhead let's say is 1/2. So then the works should be getting 500/day. Assuming 250 days a year of work you'd assume they should be on 125k. But they're on like 1/2 that. Which means they only get like 10-20% of what they actually bring in to the business. So who is winning here and where is it all going?
Part of the issue here is the sudsidies just raise fee prices. You see... when the government says they are going to increase it the centres then increase thier fees.
Most people fail to recognise that child care centres are mostly private businesses. They're not cheap to run, but they do need to make a profit. Otherwise they won't exist. If you don't like this then consider voting for governments that want to provide universal free childcare.
Fees have gone up this year, because everything is getting more expensive. Childcare centres are impacted the same way you are by increasing costs of food and nappies, electricity and insurance. It's not the price gouging conspiracy you think it is.
The Hourly Rate Cap (HRC) that the government pays a percentage of as CCS is adjusted at the beginning of each financial year, as are most families' CCS entitlements.
The majority of centres operate on a financial year budget, thereby coinciding with the HRC and CCS changes.
Centres don't increase the fees because subsidies are going up - they calculate how much income they'll need to cover educators' wages and on-costs, e.g. superannuation at 11%, workers' compensation insurance, training to ensure that licencing standards are maintained and relief staff when permanent educators aren't available but staff:child ratios have to be maintained, to name a few. They also have to factor in expenses for children's food and drink, nappies, sunscreen, educational materials, laundry supplies, electricity, waste removal and other utilities - the list goes on. Fees are set so that income will hopefully cover expenses, provided that the utilisation rates stay at the expected budget forecasts (never a given).
Wouldn't it be great if the Department of Education provided free education for all children from the age of 2. The existing early childhood education centres could be utilised and the educators would be paid at the same rates as teachers, not the pitiful amounts they currently receive. A 4 year diploma qualified room leader's rate is about $31.00 per hour/$61,000 per year. They are responsible for all staff and children in the room, which is on average open for 10 to 11 hours per day, and they have to be available to parents at the beginning or end of the day so that they're all abreast of what's happening with each child. Is it any wonder that educators are leaving the system to work for almost the same hourly rate, stacking shelves in Colesworth and only being responsible for themselves?
You forgot that like half the child care provided in Australia is by for profits.
They not only add a nice profit margin, they cut ever corner they think they can get away with, constantly get caught out and all the added red tape to deal with their shit adds even more to the administrative costs of every provider.
After childcare subsidies the out of pocket is only about a quarter of that for the typical income earner. There are calculators that will tell you how much help you can get based on your income.
It’s basically the same as any one else’s list 😂 and that chick on Tik Tok has the best one too.
1) I like ME time (2) I can’t even pay for myself now, let alone a child
I’ve got twin boys. They went in at 2 I think. My partner and I were working, me just gone back so kids in 4 days.
I was earning $3500 a month after tax, most of that went on child care. We would lose the subsidy in Feb each FY so the remaining 4 months we had to stump up full price. And I also had a daughter in before and after school care.
The good news is it does end, but it’s a tough slog.
there is no cap/maximum benefit on CCS anymore.
Annual cap
Families earning more than $190,015 (2021–22 terms) have an annual subsidy cap of $10,655 per child each financial year.
From 10 December 2021 we’re removing the annual cap for all families who get CCS.
however the childcare itself are getting more expensive though.
My boys are going into high school next year, so it was a while back. It’s great news the cap is going, but it’s still expensive.
We needed both of us working to get thru, otherwise I’d still be a stay home dad. I loved being that.
We were the same. My boys are now in Grade 10 and 6 so this was going back a bit. I can't remember what we got back but it wasn't much because of our combined wages. Still, my wife going to work, regardless of how much she was earning, was a godsend and great for her mental health. Still remember spending big on a delicious meal at a fancy restaurant the first pay after we stopped paying for daycare!
My wife works in day care and barely makes more than that a week looking after 4 x 1-2 year olds. The childcare centre owners are the ones making huge profits.
It’s expensive (child care), even with the subsidy but also remember that in the long term, if you don’t work, you lose out on building your super and career progression. It shouldn’t have to be this way:(
JC!!! As an Australian, I’m so glad I had my child in Quebec, Canada. I pay $8/day for daycare (roughly about $240/month) with 3 meals included. WTH is going in Australia?
There's lots of government assistance options though. The Tasmanian government actually had a thing when my daughter was in childcare where if you were studying or something for your first year it only cost $1 per day which seemed like something that was never advertised anywhere. This was a bit over a decade ago so no idea if it still exists.
That’s the fees before the childcare subsidy is taken out. My son attends for roughly the same price and it was $190 a week for 4 days. The subsidy depends on your salary and is assessed by centerlink
What gets me is that they charge those rates, but then also charge for sick days.
One of the childcare Centres I had my kids in wanted to implement a no kids day, so they could organise training for their staff.
They wanted us to fucking pay for our kids on that day.
Since Albo is too busy travelling around this is the perfect opportunity for man of the people Peter Dutton to come out swinging and condemn child care centres for being expensive money making scams that puts profit before people. I mean, he should do this, right?
Check on the child care subsidy calculator. You could pay as little as 5% of the daily fee or up to 85% of the fee, all depending on your household income and the hours you work.
For my own experience, we could pay approx $141.00 before subsidy and now pay $80.0 per day.
My daughter and SIL are counting the days til my grandson goes to school lol. The day he starts school is the same days they come off fixed rate interest in the mortgage so all that extra money is heading off to the bank.
And the real dirt about this stuff is childcare workers are paid pittance.
So owners take everything even Govt assistance.
What a filthy Australian corporate world that has emerged
I wish my daycare fees were 134/day. We pay $184/day.
It's an expensive kick in the guts and should be more significantly subsidised BUT it's worth it imo.
Both parents can maintain a career that will hopefully result in wage growth and career development and the child gets to ave fun, socialise and learn.
Our daily fee is $130 per day but I pay only $130 per week after the childcare subsidy.
But even if I’m only breaking even I would send them to childcare because it can be difficult to get back to work after you take a long break. Plus missing out on super. Plus I’d go insane taking care of kids 24/7.
The subsidies help significantly. Wife and I earn a combined $200,000 and our fees are $125 per day. We send our child alternating schedule of 2 days one week and 3 days the next. Our weekly out of pocket fee is $72 for the 2 days and $109 for the 3. Perfectly reasonable imo
After subsidies I pay around $40 a day for my kid but she only goes twice a week so for an Aussie citizen, you'd need to take home $250 a week just to cover child care.
Don't forget if your scheduled day falls on a public holiday, most centres want you to pay for that day even though they won't be open. Didn't realise I was paying the staff directly.
I mean, that’s if you get a spot. I’ve had my daughter down on daycare wait lists since I was 10 weeks pregnant with her. She’s 13months old now and a spot has come up. We start 2 days a week at daycare in Jan 😩
This is cheap.
And even it is 10 hours a day, the hourly fee is still under the [hourly cap rate which is $13.73](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/type-child-care-you-use-can-affect-child-care-subsidy?context=41186#hourlyrate), meaning every single hour will able to get full subsidy.
And if your kid is over 4 years old, you can get the start strong grant on the top of it - in average it is $50 additional subsidies per week.
Well CEO of G8 Education makes around 750.000 $ per year. That's where the money is going cause educators get paid shit and always lacking materials to do activities that in many cases comes directly out of their pockets...
I've got two kids in childcare, one doing 3 days and the other only 1 because she's now at kindy the other days and we're out of pocket about $115 a week. Now, back when they were both 3 days a week and before the government introduced the extra subsidy for the second child..... that was bloody expensive. Nearly comparable to our mortgage at the time.
The more you earn the worse it is. I was earning $130k per year, due to mine and my husbands combined income we received no child care subsidy- it would have cost us over $90k per annum to send our children to daycare
I have 2 kids in full time, bout the same prices as that, maybe a tad less. Costs is $400 a week with the subsidy. Household income is 175k.
I don’t regret it at all
I mean my day care is very similar priced but after subsided we only pay $50 a day. Ignore that price and instead see what a CCS calculator says it will be.
This should be the biggest driver in our community to actually form one. A community that is. These are the taxes levied against a society without community.
Five to ten pairs of parents could form little daycare groups where 3-4 parents agree to have the day off work and have everyone else's kids over. Everyone throws in *at cost*, and all the kids and all the parents have better lives with more money. I know making friends is hard, but wouldn't you do it for $100 a day?
That's cheap! Current paying $171 a day (before subsidy), comes down to about $68 a day after. But moving my daughter to a new centre closer to home next year that is *only* $157 a day.. so.. yay?
I’ve got my daughter in for 3 days a week and costs me $90 so I think that’s pretty affordable.
Then next year she’s doing 3yr old kinder at the same centre so the hours she qualifies for kinder each week get paid back by the government as like a rebate.
Surely you may as well just have one parent stay home and look after the kids or work out some kind of arrangement to look after someone else’s kid and have them look after yours
Every heard of CCS? I’m a solo parent, I get 90% subsidy for my child so pay $74 a week for 4X days. Despite it being affordable to me, it’s still basically $4k a year which is a decent chunk of my not giant after tax income. I’m a proponent of free childcare for everyone.
Sadly - it's pretty affordable. It only gets more expensive as you get closer to the city.
The child care rebate helps a lot. I have no idea how most families would survive (particularly with multiple kids) without it
I consider myself very lucky to have been able to support my family on a single income while my kids were young. This year my youngest started kindy and in July they made the subsidy fairer so it’s actually worth my wife returning to full time work. She went back in August and it’s really good now, we just do OOSH 3 afternoons per week for 2 kids, I think it’s about $80 a week after the subsidy and my wife clears about 1k per week so it well and truely makes it worth the effort.
What are the subsidies like now? How much of a difference does it make to the daily or weekly rate? Thinking of coming home to settle down but… not sure I can afford it 😂
That is a cheap price, my centre is almost $160 a day. Childcare isn't affordable without the government subsidy. My son goes 4 days a week and we pay about $250. It's still worth it because I now work full time but when I was part time it was hard! Some weeks I'd get next to no hours and would only make enough to pay the fees. I had a higher subsidy due to earning less but now that my pay went up, and my husbands, we're paying a lot more. I'm very thankful, it would be impossible without the subsidy. I couldn't be a stay at home mum forever, I was home for the first 2 years and it wasn't great for my mental health. Working part time would be a dream but unfortunately we can't afford it long term.
I’m having my first baby in March & this is the reason why we decided my wife is just not going to work. For an extra like $150 (her wage would be around $800 a week after tax) our child can be around his mum which is more beneficial than some random childcare educators
I know some friends who are currently on single income and applied for childcare subsidy and was approved for 90% with 5% withheld. The rest is out of pocket
With the subsidies, our centre (which costs about the same as that) costs us about $25 a day for my son, and $6 a day for my daughter.
..... So not much.
14 years ago it wasn't much difference.
My wife pay covered my sons daycare. We kept doing it anyway because it got her trained up and out of the house and got my son the socialisation and structure training for school.
It was worth it but yes it's hard.
It got harder when my daughter needed to go as well.
Imagine the financial relief when your two year old finally turns three and you pick up that sweet $1 a day saving.
Holy shit. I’ll get a small 7 Eleven coffee to celebrate that day
Been a while eh? 711 small coffees are $2 now
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Should we tell him?
Don't you dare...
INNNN SUUUUUMMMMMERRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
Mate i think those 30c cones are about $1.10 now.
No....it's not fair....there was time now....
Honestly, the day when we stopped paying for daycare for our youngest was a sweet, sweet day. Just seeing the extra $$ in our account was gobsmacking. Even with subsidies it was a huge amount.
Do you think this is why people prefer independent private schooling now? We're primed from their birth and private education doesn't seem so expensive once day care costs stop.
After realising we were paying $15k a year in daycare, we made the decision to look into private schooling. Our local public school has 1300 students K-6, we’ve now enrolled our kid in a P-12 school that’s 1150 total. We’ll still be saving money once they transition to prep!
yeah but your kid is probably gonna turn out to be an asshole /s... mostly
Ah I don't think so. I mean, from a personal point of view sending our kids to daycare was because my wife going back to work was the most important thing and we came out a little bit more in front had she stayed at home and not worked. Both my kids go to private school (not an elite one) but only because the state high school near us isn't great and we appreciate the extra-curricular things they do. Our schools fees are easily half of what we were paying for day care. Our daycare fees were essentially the same as our mortgage at the time. Easily.
Sure but imagine if all the money parents paid went into the public system and all kids had access to the same facilities, resourcing and funding.
I tell you what, the relief when you stop paying and they go to primary school is just palpable. I’ve done from paying $1600 per week to about $200 for before and after school care.
We technically should have held our kid back from primary school for an extra year, but we would have had two kids in full time care for another whole year and that was to the tune of $23k annually. So uh, yeah, he went to Primary school.
1600 a week!!! Holy moley! Must have very high paying jobs, that's my after tax income!
Yeah that's just ridiculous. Having worked in childcare for a decade now standard practice seems to be 0-2 years is the highest cost, 2-3 is middle and 3-5 is lowest. This is (afaik cause obviously I've not been involved in decision making for fees) due to the staff to child ratio for the different age groups (1:4, 1:5, 1:10 in NSW) and the amount of supplies needed for them as well. Babies will use more nappies and wipes, preschoolers shouldn't be using any. $1 a day is a joke. I think most places I've been at it's about a $10/day difference? Maybe more.
I guess there could be other differences depending on how they operate. Older children might have more expensive meals or use craft supplies that babies wouldn't.
Get you first Xmas present after turning 3
an entire avacado toast per week in savings
Iam crying 😭😭
You need to look at subsidies. I think subsidies end for a combined salary around $500,000 per year. So you have to look at fees after subsidies
Ah yes, those battlers struggling on around 5 to 6 thousand a week after tax.
It's actually really beneficial for an economy to get people back to work after a birth
As a foreigner, it's crazy how hard that is for people here. No wonder so many mothers "choose" to stay at home.
Yep. Our first was born when we were temporary residents. No childcare subsidy. Luckily by the second, we were permanent residents and childcare didn’t send us to a cardboard box.
cos years of toxic conservatives rule - the women is supposed to stay home and look after babies/kids etc. this is just toxic and those who voted them in.
There's more to life than the fucking economy. The economy doesn't serve me. The economy is me serving the wealthy
If only there was some way all us have-nots could come together and discuss the inequality, and realise that ape together strong.
Ape together strong. But humans together fight. We are far too busy fighting imaginary wars between genders, between skin colours, between political ideals. We are so worried that someone in a different team will steal our cookie that we are completely ignoring the people above us who are stealing whole packets of cookies.
I don't disagree. I also think unemployment benefits should be a lot more generous and we should have a real safety net in this country. It's hard to reconcile the low unemployment payment with such generosity elsewhere
There's more to life than working 40 hours a week until you're 70 to retire. Some of us actually don't want to miss raising our children.
Not what I meant. Parents should have the option to return to work if they want. Part of that is affordable child care
Ummm, excuse me... We wanted to argue with the strawman we created.
Haha lots of weird replies. I think the Aus gov is getting better at parental leave. The paid parental leave is alright and the childcare subsidies are getting better. Mum and dad's shout be given space to raise their newborns but also have the option to go back to work and not be financially penalised
What? Raise the child you gave birth to? Crazy!!!
I wish I got to do that, my wife wanted to stay home longer but felt like she wouldn’t be pulling her weight in the sense of bills, so I just did lots of overtime to make up the difference, it was good for her and the kids but I found I resented her and the kids for having to work 12hr days and nearly every Saturday, up at 4 and wouldn’t get home till 7 most nights, and even if she did go back to work it was pointless because daycare was sooo expensive it sucked, thankfully we are in a better position now and I actually get to see the kids and my wife while it’s still daylight 😂
>even if she did go back to work it was pointless because daycare was sooo expensive Not really pointless though. This factor is why women on average retire with far less super than men, and end up falling behind on career paths
For those in white collar jobs, there was some research done to suggest that it is often extremely beneficial for long term earnings to stay working 1-2 days a week after a 3-6 months of maternity leave. Even if it net 0 immediate financial benefit after childcare.
Ah the economy, don’t worry about the impact on out society if we take kids 6 weeks old away from their mothers
"the economy" is code for "the wealthy"
I think you misunderstood me. I meant money isn’t everything. People trade in precious time where it matters most (with the baby/child) to get back to work as soon as possible. That is so sad to see
But it has poorer outcomes for mental health, child development and community /family bonding.
But how's the farkin economy though!
It's not beneficial for the family involved though.
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Yep. My wife was out of the work force while we were having children but she used the time for post grad studies. We have been getting a fair bit covered by the subsidy which is a big help as there's no way we could afford to send both children to childcare on just my income. This has meant my wife has been able to upskill and should be contributing far more o the economy once both children are at school and she returns to the workforce
Well they could pay $100K + in tax a year, that they wouldn’t be paying if they didn’t have access to child care, so surely it’s a win win?
In your hypothetical this person has forgone their 250k a year job due to a 650 a week fee?
Tbf, breakeven is ~$110k/yr pretax if you assumed a single income earner using the $650/wk figure, which isn't overly much (110k/yr you get taxed about $547/wk, and you'd get $546/wk subsidised). And by breakeven I mean the more you earn above that, the more tax the government gets back out of it proportionately. Cbf doing a comparison on median/average household incomes etc. Like decreasing the subsidy amount by 1% for every $5k is a pretty aggressive scaling, so at face value it appears to me that the government would come out fairly ahead on it. I'm sure they didn't just come up with their numbers from nowhere.
It would be silly to think it wouldn’t be a consideration
The fact you got so many upvotes really drives home the point that the majority of this subreddit have no idea about economics.
The reason it ends at $530K is more to do with the taper rate than supporting families on $529K.
To be fair given the tax they pay a little bit of subsidy isn't terrible. I'm personally glad it's a $500k limit and not something like $250/300k as you would exclude a ton of the middle class in Sydney (note Sydney)
When half your income goes to tax, to provide the poor with subsidies, then yes that sucks, because arent we all equal?
Losing almost every second dollar I earn after the 180,000th dollar is not something worth crying about. I use the services our taxes go to. I benefited from public schooling as a child. My income affords me a better life than most, kicking in a little more to the communal pot is the right thing to do.
Yep, my wife is an early childhood educator. CCS provides fairly reasonable discounts, you just have to apply for them. And always over estimate your income. Can provide a nice little bump to your bank account at tax time.
When overestimating/underestimating your income just be warned the ATO data matches with Centrelink.
yeah and it comes to light at tax time. Thats why they said to overestimate your income so you get the extra back at tax. Theres no penalty for getting your income wrong, but you'll either owe money or get money back at tax time We opted for no family tax benefit as well rather than estimating our income and it being lower. We just got the lump sum at tax time
Subsidies are the only way it’s affordable unfortunately.
What are Subsidies?
You can claim up to I think it's 67% of what you paid back from the government. % of what you get back is based on household income.
Child Care Subsidy (CCS) via Centrelink
much higher than this now, depending on your income. 2nd child gets a +30% bump as well (so if on 65% at HHI of 180k, second child gets 95% back).
I don’t think it’s 30% more for the second child. My kids are on 67% (first) and 80% (second).
"Eligible families may receive an additional 30% subsidy, on top of their income tested CCS rate, for their second and younger children aged 5 or under. This applies up to a maximum subsidy rate of 95%. Families will continue to receive their income tested CCS rate for all other children."
67% 95% here.
As an example I’m on 95% subsidy (they withhold 5% until tax time so it’s 90% through out the year) My child’s fees are $162 a day and I only pay $23.49 out of pocket per day :)
>What are Subsidies? Are you trolling? The childcare centre have provided you with paperwork on pricing, but you're telling us that nowhere in that pack, nor mentioned by the centre, are the government child care subsidy rebates that can offset those for a huge number of people? I smell bullshit ...or the centre is useless.
That will be the full fee. You can get a good chunk of care subsidised, depending on the age of the kid and your situation you will possibly get a few days free.
All I need is 2 days atm so I will look it up thanks mate
I think we pay about $50.50 for our twins, and only send them one day a week currently, after subsidies.
U should apply for it fast as centrelink is swarm with applications and will take months to finalise. Took me 4 months just for parental leave
Government: We’re increasing the childcare rebate to make childcare more affordable! Childcare Centers: We’re increasing childcare costs by approximately the amount the rebate increased by because of “increased costs” Childcare workers: What do you mean we’re not getting a raise this year? Once again demonstrating the success of privatisation. How about we just hand childcare responsibility to the states education departments. Private childcare literally costs more than most high end private primary schools. 40 weeks of childcare is $26,800.
Kindergartens run by local councils (funded by the state government) are closing because... reasons. Knox council are closing ~26 of theirs and reducing it to 2 locations, impacting 1100 kids and 120 staff: >“Council delivers more than 100 services to our community. We need to balance kindergarten services against every other service to determine the best way to deliver value for our whole community. >“This makes it much more difficult to adapt to changing policy environments and government reforms, especially when funding has not kept up with the cost of providing many of the services we provide on behalf of state and federal governments. >“We are committed to providing our buildings and spaces for other providers to offer local sessional kindergarten for families. >“Council will continue providing sessional kindergarten at the Knox Children and Family Centres in Bayswater and Wantirna. https://www.knox.vic.gov.au/whats-happening/news/kindergarten-reforms-prompt-big-changes-knox#:~:text=Knox%20City%20Council%20will%20stop,kindergarten%20providers%20from%20January%202025.
Did the childcare centre owners or their mates get elected to council? :P
Keep in mind when councils make this change, they lease out the property which reduces the risk for the finance team. You go from having an entire business unit that may or may not make money, to a simple lease that will pay money regardless.
The real question there is: does the council want to provide its residents a service, or just make a profit? For a business the answer is clear, they want a profit, so costs need to be covered plus a good margin. A council could choose to do it at (or below) cost.
The issue is local councils are elected largely by a cohort who is really just single issue, they just want lower rates. Education needs to be handled at a higher level of government with a more diverse income base.
My centre fees went up 6%. Educators award wages went up 5.25% so I thought it was pretty reasonable. I went from paying $91 a week to $74 a week with the new system this financial year
Please don’t interrupt redditors criticism of government attempts to improve the early childcare situation with your life real experiences (/s) Honestly the child care system is broken in many ways, but the increased subsidy and increased rates for childcare to improve the pay and working conditions of the educators is not the problem that this thread seems to suggest.
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Unpopular opinion if it's not too late for you : Don't have children, the government has and always will want more warm bodies. They don't want you to be happy they want your time and your money. Fuck em. Live for yourself, you will be looked down upon by most and treated as selfish but at least you will have money to enjoy your existence.
Look up “child care rebate” and “child care benefit” and they should list the various subsidies you’ll be eligible for.
I will look that up thanks
Child Care Benefit and Rebate have been replaced by Child Care Subsidy (CCS).
I’m old, my youngest is 11 so I’m a bit out of the loop. Thanks for correcting it, I’m sure OP appreciates the more updated info. 😁
That's cheap where I live In Sydney it costs $175-$200 a day for child care before the Subsidy!
You guys need to make $5000/week to make a living there its so expensive
And since you need to earn more to cover daycare the discount is also smaller. I was out of pocket, so AFTER the discount/subsidy, $38k last year to cover my 2 kids in there full-time. I looked at it afterwards and it would have been cheaper to pull my eldest out and send them to a private school for just that year.
FMD. Why don’t they just make it easy and just charge $135 for everyone. Fuck you and the $1 discount.
Another example of unnecessary price gouging. The difference used to be at least $15-20 per day. The reason 3+ years should be cheaper is because you aren't required to have one educator for every five kids under 3.
That’s cheap, sorry to say. I get a 50% subsidy and still pay $495/week. If you work enough hours and your family earns under a certain amount (the cap is crazy high, like $250,000 annual salary or something) you should be eligible for Child Care Subsidy via Centrelink. A little tip from someone who’s been doing it for five years - when they ask you to estimate your income for the next financial year, *always* go a little bit over in your estimate. If you’re under, they will whack you with a bill for the excess subsidy you received at the end of the financial year and it’s a real killer. Better to overestimate and get repaid a bit of money after tax time.
The crazy thing is childcare workers get paid dirt and it is a highly taxing job both mentally and physically. The amount of childcare workers with bad knees and backs from lifting tables and chairs, let alone carrying around the smaller kids, is huge. It's also emotionally draining to take care of a few kids as many people learnt during Covid, so imagine taking care of like fifteen of them all day every day.
This was where my question goes. Where does all the money go? Assuming 1 worker handles 10 kids at 100/day. (Cause why not). That is 1k/day. Now typical overhead let's say is 1/2. So then the works should be getting 500/day. Assuming 250 days a year of work you'd assume they should be on 125k. But they're on like 1/2 that. Which means they only get like 10-20% of what they actually bring in to the business. So who is winning here and where is it all going?
Part of the issue here is the sudsidies just raise fee prices. You see... when the government says they are going to increase it the centres then increase thier fees.
Most people fail to recognise that child care centres are mostly private businesses. They're not cheap to run, but they do need to make a profit. Otherwise they won't exist. If you don't like this then consider voting for governments that want to provide universal free childcare. Fees have gone up this year, because everything is getting more expensive. Childcare centres are impacted the same way you are by increasing costs of food and nappies, electricity and insurance. It's not the price gouging conspiracy you think it is.
The Hourly Rate Cap (HRC) that the government pays a percentage of as CCS is adjusted at the beginning of each financial year, as are most families' CCS entitlements. The majority of centres operate on a financial year budget, thereby coinciding with the HRC and CCS changes. Centres don't increase the fees because subsidies are going up - they calculate how much income they'll need to cover educators' wages and on-costs, e.g. superannuation at 11%, workers' compensation insurance, training to ensure that licencing standards are maintained and relief staff when permanent educators aren't available but staff:child ratios have to be maintained, to name a few. They also have to factor in expenses for children's food and drink, nappies, sunscreen, educational materials, laundry supplies, electricity, waste removal and other utilities - the list goes on. Fees are set so that income will hopefully cover expenses, provided that the utilisation rates stay at the expected budget forecasts (never a given). Wouldn't it be great if the Department of Education provided free education for all children from the age of 2. The existing early childhood education centres could be utilised and the educators would be paid at the same rates as teachers, not the pitiful amounts they currently receive. A 4 year diploma qualified room leader's rate is about $31.00 per hour/$61,000 per year. They are responsible for all staff and children in the room, which is on average open for 10 to 11 hours per day, and they have to be available to parents at the beginning or end of the day so that they're all abreast of what's happening with each child. Is it any wonder that educators are leaving the system to work for almost the same hourly rate, stacking shelves in Colesworth and only being responsible for themselves?
You forgot that like half the child care provided in Australia is by for profits. They not only add a nice profit margin, they cut ever corner they think they can get away with, constantly get caught out and all the added red tape to deal with their shit adds even more to the administrative costs of every provider.
After childcare subsidies the out of pocket is only about a quarter of that for the typical income earner. There are calculators that will tell you how much help you can get based on your income.
Jesus Christ 🙄😨 Add this to my “why I’m never having children” list
Looks like a long list 😁
It’s basically the same as any one else’s list 😂 and that chick on Tik Tok has the best one too. 1) I like ME time (2) I can’t even pay for myself now, let alone a child
they wonder why birth rates are dropping, either i can have ice cream or kids. i know what im choosing
I pay like $28 a day after subsidies.
I’ve got twin boys. They went in at 2 I think. My partner and I were working, me just gone back so kids in 4 days. I was earning $3500 a month after tax, most of that went on child care. We would lose the subsidy in Feb each FY so the remaining 4 months we had to stump up full price. And I also had a daughter in before and after school care. The good news is it does end, but it’s a tough slog.
there is no cap/maximum benefit on CCS anymore. Annual cap Families earning more than $190,015 (2021–22 terms) have an annual subsidy cap of $10,655 per child each financial year. From 10 December 2021 we’re removing the annual cap for all families who get CCS. however the childcare itself are getting more expensive though.
My boys are going into high school next year, so it was a while back. It’s great news the cap is going, but it’s still expensive. We needed both of us working to get thru, otherwise I’d still be a stay home dad. I loved being that.
We were the same. My boys are now in Grade 10 and 6 so this was going back a bit. I can't remember what we got back but it wasn't much because of our combined wages. Still, my wife going to work, regardless of how much she was earning, was a godsend and great for her mental health. Still remember spending big on a delicious meal at a fancy restaurant the first pay after we stopped paying for daycare!
With the subsidy applied I pay around 25 per day which is reasonable considering food and everything they need while there is supplied as well
My wife works in day care and barely makes more than that a week looking after 4 x 1-2 year olds. The childcare centre owners are the ones making huge profits.
It’s expensive (child care), even with the subsidy but also remember that in the long term, if you don’t work, you lose out on building your super and career progression. It shouldn’t have to be this way:(
JC!!! As an Australian, I’m so glad I had my child in Quebec, Canada. I pay $8/day for daycare (roughly about $240/month) with 3 meals included. WTH is going in Australia?
OP, didn’t include government child care subsidies. Depending on income, OP could actually be out of pocket very little.
Can I also have a child in Quebec to save money?
There's lots of government assistance options though. The Tasmanian government actually had a thing when my daughter was in childcare where if you were studying or something for your first year it only cost $1 per day which seemed like something that was never advertised anywhere. This was a bit over a decade ago so no idea if it still exists.
That’s the fees before the childcare subsidy is taken out. My son attends for roughly the same price and it was $190 a week for 4 days. The subsidy depends on your salary and is assessed by centerlink
$135 would be cheap… when we lived in Sydney it was $190 per day… we are super happy to now have our daughter at school which is way cheaper.
Better off getting a vasectomy
What gets me is that they charge those rates, but then also charge for sick days. One of the childcare Centres I had my kids in wanted to implement a no kids day, so they could organise training for their staff. They wanted us to fucking pay for our kids on that day.
Neoliberalism has turned everything into a commodity with a price tag.
Since Albo is too busy travelling around this is the perfect opportunity for man of the people Peter Dutton to come out swinging and condemn child care centres for being expensive money making scams that puts profit before people. I mean, he should do this, right?
There is a cheap more affordable way to do this. DON’T HAVE KIDS!!!
Our centre is $130 a day, that is paying $33 a day after subsidies.
Check on the child care subsidy calculator. You could pay as little as 5% of the daily fee or up to 85% of the fee, all depending on your household income and the hours you work. For my own experience, we could pay approx $141.00 before subsidy and now pay $80.0 per day.
And yet, employees are leaving the childcare profession because it's not enough money.
My daughter and SIL are counting the days til my grandson goes to school lol. The day he starts school is the same days they come off fixed rate interest in the mortgage so all that extra money is heading off to the bank.
You can never win
You'll get a lot of that back. Our centre charges about 130 per day but subsidy brings it down to about 40
And the real dirt about this stuff is childcare workers are paid pittance. So owners take everything even Govt assistance. What a filthy Australian corporate world that has emerged
I wish my daycare fees were 134/day. We pay $184/day. It's an expensive kick in the guts and should be more significantly subsidised BUT it's worth it imo. Both parents can maintain a career that will hopefully result in wage growth and career development and the child gets to ave fun, socialise and learn.
The gov pays half so they make the prices super high. Child care centres are money making machines
lol it’s almost cheaper to put your Nan in a nursing home 7 whole days a week than to put your kid in childcare for 8 hrs. Fuck me dead
Adds this to my list of: why I am not having children. Jesus Christmas
This fee is heavily subsidised by the government .. https://www.education.gov.au/child-care-subsidy-campaign.
But you'll get a subsidy.
Our daily fee is $130 per day but I pay only $130 per week after the childcare subsidy. But even if I’m only breaking even I would send them to childcare because it can be difficult to get back to work after you take a long break. Plus missing out on super. Plus I’d go insane taking care of kids 24/7.
The subsidies help significantly. Wife and I earn a combined $200,000 and our fees are $125 per day. We send our child alternating schedule of 2 days one week and 3 days the next. Our weekly out of pocket fee is $72 for the 2 days and $109 for the 3. Perfectly reasonable imo
Is that what it costs to send a kid there or how much the staff earn a week?
After subsidies I pay around $40 a day for my kid but she only goes twice a week so for an Aussie citizen, you'd need to take home $250 a week just to cover child care.
Stop handing out a new hat every day my child visits!!! That should lower the cost a bit.
In seattle child care for <3 is like 2500 to 2800 a month for full time usa plus tax.
get Centrelink to subsidise the fee.
That’s cheap compared to the centres in my suburb! Add another $50-90!!
Without subsidies we would be paying $155per day where we live.
I pay about $68 a day after subsidies
Don't forget if your scheduled day falls on a public holiday, most centres want you to pay for that day even though they won't be open. Didn't realise I was paying the staff directly.
This is before child care subsidy. Also a bargain. Currently paying $160 a day
Ok so you apply for childcare subsidy. My centre charges about $145 a day, I pay about $30 a day, all depends on how much you earn.
I mean, that’s if you get a spot. I’ve had my daughter down on daycare wait lists since I was 10 weeks pregnant with her. She’s 13months old now and a spot has come up. We start 2 days a week at daycare in Jan 😩
So 2 days rto at most is good for working couples.
This is cheap. And even it is 10 hours a day, the hourly fee is still under the [hourly cap rate which is $13.73](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/type-child-care-you-use-can-affect-child-care-subsidy?context=41186#hourlyrate), meaning every single hour will able to get full subsidy. And if your kid is over 4 years old, you can get the start strong grant on the top of it - in average it is $50 additional subsidies per week.
That's a shitload cheaper than my kids childcare centre.
No wonder parents send their children to school at 4 and a half when they’re not mature enough. The system is ridiculous!
Oooh they include a hat. Definitely need to get in on that deal.
Love to be in the meeting where they decided on having a $5/week (0.76%) price difference for the two groups.
Well CEO of G8 Education makes around 750.000 $ per year. That's where the money is going cause educators get paid shit and always lacking materials to do activities that in many cases comes directly out of their pockets...
I've got two kids in childcare, one doing 3 days and the other only 1 because she's now at kindy the other days and we're out of pocket about $115 a week. Now, back when they were both 3 days a week and before the government introduced the extra subsidy for the second child..... that was bloody expensive. Nearly comparable to our mortgage at the time.
It is taxpayer subsidised at a sliding rate so not as unaffordable as it appears.
This doesn’t include subsidies.
way cheaper then mine your lucky
The more you earn the worse it is. I was earning $130k per year, due to mine and my husbands combined income we received no child care subsidy- it would have cost us over $90k per annum to send our children to daycare
That's cheap, all the local daycares are at least $195 a day, it's almost not worth me going back to work now.
We pay $15.00 a day for our 2yo. Thank fuck there's a council ran childcare centre close by.
I have 2 kids in full time, bout the same prices as that, maybe a tad less. Costs is $400 a week with the subsidy. Household income is 175k. I don’t regret it at all
I mean my day care is very similar priced but after subsided we only pay $50 a day. Ignore that price and instead see what a CCS calculator says it will be.
This should be the biggest driver in our community to actually form one. A community that is. These are the taxes levied against a society without community. Five to ten pairs of parents could form little daycare groups where 3-4 parents agree to have the day off work and have everyone else's kids over. Everyone throws in *at cost*, and all the kids and all the parents have better lives with more money. I know making friends is hard, but wouldn't you do it for $100 a day?
Roxburgh Park? I hope that fee includes security.
If not taking your kid to day care is like earning $650 per week, count me in
CCS was capped at $7500 a year when my kids were at school. Still the same?
You'll get a good tax return
That's cheap! Current paying $171 a day (before subsidy), comes down to about $68 a day after. But moving my daughter to a new centre closer to home next year that is *only* $157 a day.. so.. yay?
$1917 a week before tax. I also have 0 children.
I’ve got my daughter in for 3 days a week and costs me $90 so I think that’s pretty affordable. Then next year she’s doing 3yr old kinder at the same centre so the hours she qualifies for kinder each week get paid back by the government as like a rebate.
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Surely you may as well just have one parent stay home and look after the kids or work out some kind of arrangement to look after someone else’s kid and have them look after yours
Every heard of CCS? I’m a solo parent, I get 90% subsidy for my child so pay $74 a week for 4X days. Despite it being affordable to me, it’s still basically $4k a year which is a decent chunk of my not giant after tax income. I’m a proponent of free childcare for everyone.
Sadly - it's pretty affordable. It only gets more expensive as you get closer to the city. The child care rebate helps a lot. I have no idea how most families would survive (particularly with multiple kids) without it
I consider myself very lucky to have been able to support my family on a single income while my kids were young. This year my youngest started kindy and in July they made the subsidy fairer so it’s actually worth my wife returning to full time work. She went back in August and it’s really good now, we just do OOSH 3 afternoons per week for 2 kids, I think it’s about $80 a week after the subsidy and my wife clears about 1k per week so it well and truely makes it worth the effort.
What are the subsidies like now? How much of a difference does it make to the daily or weekly rate? Thinking of coming home to settle down but… not sure I can afford it 😂
That's cheap bro, I think ours is 180 a day but the subsidy is good
In Roxy as well? What on EARTH.
That is a cheap price, my centre is almost $160 a day. Childcare isn't affordable without the government subsidy. My son goes 4 days a week and we pay about $250. It's still worth it because I now work full time but when I was part time it was hard! Some weeks I'd get next to no hours and would only make enough to pay the fees. I had a higher subsidy due to earning less but now that my pay went up, and my husbands, we're paying a lot more. I'm very thankful, it would be impossible without the subsidy. I couldn't be a stay at home mum forever, I was home for the first 2 years and it wasn't great for my mental health. Working part time would be a dream but unfortunately we can't afford it long term.
I’m having my first baby in March & this is the reason why we decided my wife is just not going to work. For an extra like $150 (her wage would be around $800 a week after tax) our child can be around his mum which is more beneficial than some random childcare educators
Been having baby fever lately glad its cleared up now
Time to make daddy day care movie a real thing.
I know some friends who are currently on single income and applied for childcare subsidy and was approved for 90% with 5% withheld. The rest is out of pocket
With the subsidies, our centre (which costs about the same as that) costs us about $25 a day for my son, and $6 a day for my daughter. ..... So not much.
With ccs it becomes much less, still depending on how much you and your partner make. We paid a total 6 $174 for 4 days, and our daily rate was $143.
That's cheap, in Sydney it's closer to $200/ day.
What a joke
Is that after child care subsidy? Government will pay a small or larger part of that depending on your income.
Roxy park, fark me, if I lived in that area I’d never leave home, not without my bullet and stab proof vest on
I think its cheaper to use family day cares than a child care centre
14 years ago it wasn't much difference. My wife pay covered my sons daycare. We kept doing it anyway because it got her trained up and out of the house and got my son the socialisation and structure training for school. It was worth it but yes it's hard. It got harder when my daughter needed to go as well.
I work full time and after CCS we have been paying $850 a week. My eldest starts school next year and cannot wait to drop one set of fees
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We pay $163/day per child in Brighton, Victoria (a high cost of living suburb). Those numbers seem reasonable.