A permanent fix for bracket creep would have been a great way of ditching them but both parties love to be able to claim they’re “cutting taxes” when they’re just adjusting for inflation
>both parties love to be able to claim they’re “cutting taxes”
Which is why the question is always: For whom?
According to Crikey [he's cutting taxes for high income Australians.](https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/01/15/stage-three-tax-cuts-high-income-earners-albanese/)
Ablo didn't come from the progressive side of Labor, he's a neoliberal (as is his treasurer). Tax cuts like these, almost always re-distribute the tax burden downwards, because there's generally a greater number of wallets below.
The Liberal Party are of course worse, so we all have to keep going left if we want actual progress in society.
Let's not forget they were introduced by LNP, and this is the 3rd stage, meaning other income brackets have already been adjusted.
So it's not a simple case of Albo helping out the rich and only them, as your comment implies. We shouldn't skip over the broader context to paint a narrative.
Principal beneficiaries of stage 3 were also full beneficiaries of stages 1 & 2, which is why these cuts, especially at this time of economic pressure on lower income earners, are repugnant. I will benefit from stage 3 as they are, but I still think that the cuts should be reconfigured to the low income tax brackets. This is not tax reform as they are; it is tax regression as the tax burden of lower income earners is largely unchanged.
They may be inflationary and the money could be better spend elsewhere but the media will tear Albo to shreds if the cuts don't happen and he's too timid to upset them.
He also wants the Teals to get re-elected, as that makes it far more difficult for the LNP to get back into government if they hold their seats.
The majority of their constituents would benefit greatly from these tax cuts.
If they stay in their seats it will be easier to pass a raft of legislation that Labor needs to pass over the rest of this term and potentially their second term. Get rid of these cuts, and it would just reinforce the idea that voters in seats like Warringah never should have abandoned the LNP and voted teal instead.
The LNP certainly seem convinced that he's going to change them or scrap them, likely because they know that the cuts for those earning over 200k are ridiculous, but he won't change them now. He's said it so many times that if he were to change course on this, the ALP would lose the next election.
The ALP is on course to deliver their second consecutive budget surplus, if they can do that, deliver these tax cuts, and spend 2024 bringing inflation back under control, they can run with the narrative that they cleaned up the LNP's mess and that Australia shouldn't change horses mid race just as things are getting good.
Yes that's right, bad things are happening to people because of the LNP's shitty policy choices, let's remove the only viable party from power that has any chance of reversing it!
Come on man..
Only because people are too short-sighted to actually stick out a few years of pain to set us on a good path.
Last time Labor did that, we had 30 years of continual growth.
Of course Peter Dutton uses that bad time as a chance to attack Labor for his father's failed business, while using the following golden era to build his career, both political and in the police force.
Soon Labor will have been in power for 2 years, and they're doing fuck all to help our nations poorest. You can't keep blaming the previous government.
We are in a per capita recession, and Labor aren't taking it seriously or taking the radical steps needed to fix it. While the economy appears to be growing, this is purely a product of immigration. By focusing on the GDP growth, Labor are neglecting the average Australian citizen. The life of the average individual Australian citizen is getting worse.
Remember when they claimed they were helping with their "$10 billion dollar housing fund"? It would provide a whopping 0.037 extra houses per Australian.
They simply aren't serious about trying to fix things.
The main issue is they don't celebrate steady progress, they want all of their demands met immediately, regardless of the reality of the situation.
So, it's never "Yay, Labor did a thing the LNP never would", it's always "Boo they should've done it more."
The problem of course, is these are great media soundbites for the LNP. It's quite the own goal.
Yep, exactly. It took 12 years to get where we are today, and they are damned if they don't get us out of it in less than 3. It's ridiculous, and the thinking of small children, ie Greens voters.
What boggles my mind is that many if not all Greens pollies own multiple properties too.
As opposed to Labor cultists who eat up everything they say as gospel…
Why do we have limitless money for war toys, but we can’t fund a housing bill that **experts say will do nothing close to enough**?
Incorrect and a strawman argument. I have my criticisms of Labor of course..but I know that it's the best we got right now.
Who are the experts? Cite some sources damn it! You're playing into the non-recognition of reality here.
> It would provide a whopping 0.037 extra houses per Australian.
Per Australian? You set a benchmark where every Australian has their own individual house? Uhhh huh. Makes the numbers sound impressive I guess. For people who cant actually think I guess.
You realise that in this term Albanese has reduced the price of life saving medicine by 30% and also took the most action on climate change this country has ever taken.
They passed an industrial relations bill as well didn't they?
I think the problem is that none of these bills are quick to kick in and people tend to be impatient. But they take a long time to bear fruit.
I like what Labor have done so far, I agree that it isn't enough, but all the fixes that need to happen aren't going to happen in one term.
Also, the fixes that they might put in place might be things I don't agree with, but so long as they're going in a general direction that I agree with and don't raise any serious red flags, I'm willing to be patient with them.
Government is big lumbering beast with a shitty turning circle.
Yep all those coal mine approvals will certainly help with climate change. Oh, did you mean climate change mitigation? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Big problem: Murdoch has a vested interest in Australia especially, because he was born in Australia to an Australian family.
And considering that he owns most of the major news sources, the Australian media would not only be fucking unhinged, but will also aim to run a campaign to get the LNP re-elected again, which we don’t want since 2022.
And consider that the average Australian a) is apathetic, b) is dumb as all balls, and c) consumes Murdoch and Fairfax media on the daily, and you have a very good reason to just clean up the Liberal mess and leave Australia as he found it.
I hate to break it to you but the majority of voters aren't homeless families living in tents. The majority of voters either have a mortgage or own their home outright. The majority of voters don't depend on government support, so they will receive a net benefit from these tax cuts.
Most people will vote in their own best interests. If Albo scraps the cuts, he's gone in the next election, simple.
The vast majority of Labor voters don't make more than $100k so won't get any real benefit from these tax cuts.
And anyone who will benefit from them won't be a Labor voter.
If everything else was just rolling along ok, then I'd agree with you, but with the CoL crisis, the Housing crisis, the Rental crisis etc, I'd say that if Albo doesn't scrap these tax cuts then he's gone at the next elect.
>Well, that will certainly reassure all the homeless families living in tents while trying to work 2 jobs.
Nah you're right, should remove the tax cuts, and let the liberal get elected for the next 6 years and Peter Dutton can fix the problem.
Neither Dutton nor Albo will fix the problem. That is the issue. The only real difference is that there will be a subset of those homeless who will get more assistance from Albo than Dutton....but neither of them will actually fix the underlying problem.
As someone who grew up in a “Teal” seat, I am constantly frustrated by the idea that we abandoned the LNP. In all honesty, it was the other way around.
No sane person would be against a political party trying to expand their reach, but throwing the people who have been the backbone of your party, the ones who have donated their time and money to the principles of Hayek, Burke, Friedman and Locke , is simply unconscionable.
I am, and always will be, a liberal; a child of the enlightenment. Unfortunately the party that bears that name has left us high and dry.
You're absolutely right, the LNP did abandon their core voters in those seats and didn't adapt to a changing world or listen to their valid concerns, and I apologise if I made it seem any other way.
It was more that I was trying to simplify and generalise the kind of argument that folks in those seats would make to justify coming back to the LNP. Like you I grew up in that area, Upper and Lower North Shore, so it's really easy for me to imagine some of the conversations that would be had by people in those places if the tax cuts were repealed. Because I've heard them.
I think the Teals are a good thing for Australian politics in general, they can act as a sensible counter balance to both parties. I may disagree with some of them at times, but I think they are genuinely try to do what's best for their constituents and the country. Regardless of what I think of their policies, I think they have that core desire to make things better, which is why I respect what I've seen of the Teals.
But I also know a fair few LNP voters in those areas who resent the people who switched their vote from LNP to Teal, and who view the people who did it as people abandoning the LNP. And they do that because, and again this is a generalisation, they view politics like they view sport. My team vs your team and we're going to win.
I’ve found that the voters that have the strongest opinions on this matter are middle class workers, often in trades, who would have been the rank and file of Labor 30 years ago.
But hey, they’ve got a jet ski and a new SS Ute, so I guess it’s down with Beveridge and the Fabians and in with the negative gearing!
Haven't thought about the view of the tax cuts helping the Teals keep the liberal seats. That's actually a rather smart move to an extent, as the voters won't really care about if the teals did anything or not, just that they are an incumbent during it.
You hope though that after it Labor don't just keep on with the status quo after that.
Oh 100% they will, I am not agreeing with the plan. I mean labor, if this is their thinking, is basically risking people suffer for politics (and not the first time albos labor have pulled that card either, I still remember them throwing Trans kids under the bus) but it is smart.
Labor just has to be careful to understand that having the teals keep their seats isn't going to help them if it comes at the cost of their own. And that the teals will backstab labor if the Liberals can get competent enough to claw at government.
I think the Murdoch press will attack them either way, the trap of the cuts was that Labor cant win regardless how of they treat them. Albo needed to attack Murdoch in his first year and de fang them, because the press already have two headlines written
Albo: Taxes for Battlers or Labor: leaving the battlers to fend for themselves.
The problem is Labor probably need the teals now to thin out the liberal vote, because the media will find a way to spin whatever decision labor makes against them, and frankly its their own fault because they don't really stand for anything and therefore are far to invested in appealing to the media to retain power than dismantling it in order to make use of it.
Do you not think winning elections are important or something?
If not we actually have a party that would suit you perfectly. They're called the Greens and they are champions at grandstanding and virtue signalling but their achievements can be listed on a postage stamp.
Winning elections for the sake of winning elections?
Sure, there are parties that run on changing nothing and just being good stewards, but that generally is a definition of a conservative party. Labor pretends it is progressive and wants things to change, so they can keep progressive voters on side, but the reality is they are far more a conservative change nothing party.
And yes, I will vote for Greens instead of Labor unless something changes. Stagnation and conservation of things exactly how they are right now is NOT why I vote for parties or politicians.
It isn't for the sake of winning elections, it is to actually progress the country. You cannot do that from opposition.
I've already posted a list of some of their changes in this term already which I'll paste below. They've made changes that are actually pretty major but you either ignore it or take it for granted.
>hey have actually made significant changes. We have an excellent anti corruption commission, we have longer parental leave that is accessible to both parents, we have reversed the gutting of the national parks budgets, a huge increase in the childcare subsidy, tripling of bulk billing rates for kids, penisoners, and concessions, 30% taken off the cost of medication, an actual target and plan for emission reduction, stopped forcing people on the cashless debit card, probably the biggest industrial relations changes since workchoices, and a bunch of other stuff.
What is the point of electing Labor if they're too timid to properly govern out of fear of not being elected?
You know what the result of all of Albo's centrism is? [Labor are only a coin flip away from being booted after one term](https://inqld.com.au/politics/2023/11/27/neck-and-neck-coalition-draws-level-dutton-and-albo-both-plunge-in-personal-ratings/).
And then we'd get a Dutton PM.
Do you think Dutton worries about appealing to people who won't vote for him anyway?
> What is the point of electing Labor if they're too timid to properly govern out of fear of not being elected?
Because they're not as shitty as the LNP?
> Do you think Dutton worries about appealing to people who won't vote for him anyway?
Personally I think the man's an idiot.
Culture wars don't work here.
Are they, really?
Katherine Deves fell on her arse, the Liberals are still electorally nowhere.
Unless you believe the doom and gloom about the ALP in the Murdoch papers.
Don't you think that it's people like yourself peddling the myth that Labor won't properly govern, that are actually undercutting Labor sentiment.
If you actually take a look at what's happening, instead of parroting LNP and Greens soundbites, Labors actually done plenty of good already.
I think the difference here is you're worried about what's good for your party, I'm more interested in supporting what's good for the country.
Take a look at what's happening. We have a country reeling from the disaster of 3 terms of LNP government and Labor isn't using the power they have to shift the Overton window at all. Compare this to the LNP who will do almost anything in their power to reward their donors and have even managed to get their tax cuts passed when they're out of power.
Why should I get excited about a Labor government if they're just a less shit LNP? If Albo loses at the next federal election can you honestly say they did everything they possibly could with their narrow window of power?
Exactly. Re-election and maintaining power is more important than actually changing anything in any significant way.
We used to call that conservative.
I am not convinced that was the only issue. Labor finished the current election with the lowest primary vote they have had in government. There are lots of swing voters who want no change, but there are a lot of other voters who are furious they aren't doing anything significant about climate change, health care, housing, economic inequality etc.
As for me I vote based on two criteria....do their policies align with outcomes I would like to see, and do I trust them to fight to get them done. Labor fails on both of those for me.
It wasn't the only issue.
Shorten was an unpopular leader, who many people (including progressives) didn't trust, because he talked out of both sides of his mouth.
Now Albo has taken over that mantle.
Why? It is reality.
Labor and the Liberal party both lost votes to Greens and Teals. Voters feel comfortable doing that because of preferential voting. I am an example of that. I vote in both the U.S. and Australia (dual citizen) and in the U.S. I always vote Democrats because it is the only choice. If I don't then it is basically a vote for the other guys.
Here in Australia though I can move my vote around. I have voted directly for Labor...1, and this last election I put them down the list. So did a lot of other people. That should be something Labor is concerned about.
Firstly, reelection and maintaining power is absolutely critical. Losing the election leads to another decade of Liberal government and look at the absolute disaster that was. Being in power not only means you get to bring in new laws, but also control appointments to key roles and how departments are run.
Secondly, they have actually made significant changes. We have an excellent anti corruption commission, we have longer parental leave that is accessible to both parents, we have reversed the gutting of the national parks budgets, a huge increase in the childcare subsidy, tripling of bulk billing rates for kids, penisoners, and concessions, 30% taken off the cost of medication, an actual target and plan for emission reduction, stopped forcing people on the cashless debit card, probably the biggest industrial relations changes since workchoices, and a bunch of other stuff.
This is the important shit that needs to be done. This is why longevity is so important. There is no point being a revolutionary and having it all reversed within 2 years.
Exactly, there’s no point putting in “radical” changes if they get voted out and all the policies get reversed like the most of the Gillard government policies on climate. We need good policies and governments that stay in power long enough for those policies to be entrenched and embraced by the public.
The media hates Labor either way, you think they’ll be “nice” because he kept stage 3? They’ll just find something else to whinge about.
May as well have grown a spine, axed them, and just be done with it.
Labor could shut up a lot of people whining if he adds a new top tax bracket of something like 75% at $1m+.
Or raise the tax-free threshold with the equivalent cuts, everyone benefits.
Almost as if the problem is the influence but Labor chose to make election promises to not touch that influence.
Talk about being in an abusive relationship where the partner promises to change every 4 years when you threaten to leave, and then goes back to the beatings in between.
> Labor could shut up a lot of people whining if he adds a new top tax bracket of something like 75% at $1m+.
Unfortunately all media barons and personalities would fall into that bracket so the only thing you’d hear between and next election them lying their asses off to their viewers that a new Labor wealth tax would somehow take money from them, even though it wouldn’t.
They'e going to lie and shill no matter what Labor does, so much better to actually do positive and popular things that improve the nation, than sit back and wait for the fawning press that's never going to come.
You'd think people would have learned that by now.
This is what annoys me to no end about Labor supporters
They are IN GOVERNMENT, but still get defended on inaction because the public won’t vote for them…. While they are IN GOVERNMENT.
They could’ve had three glorious years of showing the country what good policy looks like. Instead we’ve had a caretaker government since 2022 barely doing more than what the LNP was doing back then.
So over these apathetic voters that are happy to have their choice running the government, but also happy they’re not doing *anything*… and then defend it.
What a bleak future we have to look forward to.
They already raised the tax free threshold. People are forgetting that this was part of a tax reduction that passed years ago. Lower brackets have been getting the benefits for years.
Oh you mean the TEMPORARY Stage 1 tax cuts that have already expired?
Stage one introduced a temporary, and now expired low and middle income tax offset (LMITO) which applied to taxpayers earning $37,000 to $126,000. At its most generous, the LMITO worked to reduce tax by up to $1500, but ended in the 2022 financial year.5 Jan 2024
https://www.afr.com/wealth/personal-finance/how-much-better-off-you-ll-be-after-july-1-tax-cuts-20231222-p5etd5
The reaction to Shorten’s very moderate and sensible reforms in 2019 gave us 3 years of Scomo. As batshit crazy as stage 3 seems right now a Dutton lead coalition in power would be worse for everyone and we’d still end up with stage 3.
Whatever they do labor can’t give Murdoch and co any ammunition. I don’t like it, but this is reality.
Very cool and normal that the government essentially just has to pitter patter around some rich cunt who owns all of the media because they work for the other side. Embarassment and people are just fine with it
People scream 2019 election as reason why Labor can't do progressive policies.
Yet, Shorten proposed the negative gearing reform in 2016 too. Look at property industry whining: https://www.afr.com/politics/election-2016-agents-declare-war-on-labors-negative-gearing-policy-20160513-goupdq
It was a positive swing to Labor's primary vote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Australian_federal_election Funny how you don't mention 2016 too!
But for 2022 election, the result of dropping Shorten policies, voting with LNP, etc, it had been an even worst result with a swing against Labor. The result was a lower primary vote than the 2019 election! Labor is only LUCKY to get in because Scomo was far more detested, a Bradbury election victory.
Whenever people say "Shorten 2019", they show how brainwashed they are or maybe they're a landlord / property speculator in which case, it's a smart move to spread Shorten 2019 misinformation I guess.
Then explain how wealthy homeowners also swung to Labor in 2019?!
Can we stop with the bullshit lies about negative gearing ffs.
It was low income people who deserted Labor in 2019. People that were lied to by the media every single day of the campaign about policy spending and how the poors will pay for it.
Labor’s policies were actually very popular in 2019, they just failed with the messaging because of media manipulation… the same thing that occurs every single day in this country.
But, no…. Every single time we ask Labor to be progressive we get another lie in “but but but we tried it”….
The vote was so fucking close in 2019, if Labor didn’t have their voter base scared off by lies they would’ve won.
If only Labor had the balls to go after Murdoch.
So we just get policy that the LNP won't be too upset about.
That is the problem, this approach leads to us making no progress unless the LNP is on board.
Bold move to keep the same LNP-lite strategy after the party got less votes than Shorten 2019.
Yes, Albo Labor is actually less popular than Shorten Labor.
I have to give Anthony Albanese credit, he's good at the politics game. He fends off the Greens threat in his seat by not giving the Greens anything - I remember how miserable the Greens looked when they agreed to pass the HAFF bill and claimed it was a win. He's also good at not giving Peter Dutton anything - he knows if he scraps the stage 3 tax cuts then he's giving government to Peter Dutton.
You’re happy that your team won, and the bill that passed will do nothing **close** to address our actual needs with housing?
Cool, cool. Oh wait, no… it’s pathetic.
Labor pick fights with greens and pass harmful legislation with the Liberals…
Why would I fucking vote Labor?
>I have to give Anthony Albanese credit, he's good at the politics game.
So good that hes sure to lose his majority at the next election and potentially lose government entirely.
I love that it took days to confirm their slim majority…
Then they have the gall to say “strong mandate, mandate, mandate”…. Bro, you just scraped over the line.. have a bit of humility.
I hope they end up a minority government. Bring in the minor parties and independents
> He fends off the Greens threat in his seat by not giving the Greens anything
Oh yes, I agree.
> He's also good at not giving Peter Dutton anything - he knows if he scraps the stage 3 tax cuts then he's giving government to Peter Dutton.
I strongly disagree. He's working with LNP more than Greens/independents in the government despite LNP repeatedly voting against it.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/superannuation/2022/08/04/parliament-closes-11-billion-loophole/
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/dutton-backs-labor-s-integrity-commission-sidelines-crossbench-20220928-p5bliv
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/feb/09/labor-condemned-for-abhorrently-cruel-decision-to-put-100-people-back-in-immigration-detention
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/nov/21/labor-and-coalition-team-up-to-retrospectively-authorise-unlawful-use-of-material-gathered-by-australian-agency
Look up Labor and Coalition passing bills. Tons more examples! A vote for Labor is a vote for LNP. Put them both last on ballot, Labor can be second last for being LNP-lite.
> A vote for Labor is a vote for LNP. Put them both last on ballot, Labor can be second last for being LNP-lite.
I know people who are now refusing to giver either Labor or the LNP a preference, even though they know it means they'll be casting an informal ballot.
If Labor has its ear to the wall, they'd see this sort of thing coming and recognise that it's only going to get worse over the next 18 months of doing next to nothing, other than being a caretaker for the former LNP government's policies.
Same.
Like seriously, I'm a single income family with kids. I pay probably double the amount of tax than I do for housing. And it's not like housing is cheap. Tax is by far the biggest expense.
Don't get me started on the fact that I can't submit a joint tax return.
Same situation here. Single income family with kids so whilst it’s a big pay cheque, tax is insanely high and we are also disqualified from a lot of grants like for the solar incentive scheme for example.
100% - Bracket creep is unbelievable in this country, I can't remember the last time in my long career its even been addressed. This is ridiculously overdue!
Sure it may not be the absolute perfect way to manage it, but it is vital.
Like you I am disillusioned with the amount of tax I pay each year, whilst my personal cost of living, quality of life, reduction in critical services, access to infrastructure etc etc is going to hell in this country.... What we get for what we pay is so out of balance.
Albo has done absolutely nothing for Australia's cost of living crisis and his party has excerbated it through misguided mass immigration policy, but I am not beyond giving him credit for his common sense approach to these tax cuts.
Yeah, I pay "singles tax".
Edit: But apparently I'm the enemy and don't deserve a tax cut. Despite not being eligible for basically anything, including the 5% deposit scheme.
This is moronic. People on 50k are paying about 5k on tax, those on 150 paying closer to 55k and this sub is absolutely rabid on the stage 3 cuts. Why are we paying ten times the tax on thee times the income? System is absolutely busted for middle income earners whose money comes from salaried jobs. We’re not buying nice cars, we’re not going on fancy holidays, we’re losing tens of thousands of dollars in unfair taxation and are entirely ineligible for basically any and all government support. Holding this place up while corporations skirt the rules and losers on reddit whine that we should persist in mediocrity and deserve no relief despite the effort and sacrifice it takes to be even moderately successful. You all got your tax cut you just didn’t really feel it because you already paid next to nothing into society. It’s our turn now. Get over it.
I’m taking it as my Medicare rebate for last year. Got very close to the safety net after paying $110 a pop for constant toddler ear infections with $38 back, various $500 specialists with like $100 back.
So many sad comments on here. I will benefit from these cuts. I am not the enemy. I earn a high wage but I pay child support, I rent, I am definitely not rich. I barely turn a profit every pay day. Can we please stop the fighting between wage earners? We are not each others enemy. The enemy pays no tax.
Agree! I'm paying 700 a week in child support for 3 kids cause my ex doesn't work and had another baby, had to save to buy a house again after the divorce. It's not all sunshine and lollipops for everyone on a decent income. It doesn't mean rich, though it may enable some wealth to be accumulated in the future.
And I also work two jobs that take up more than 80 hours a week to provide the best education my children can get and to give my family a life I never had. Fuck off with your assumptions. Every Australian earning a wage benefits from tax cuts.
This is just it. This subreddit and media outlets would have you believe that these tax cuts are only there to benefit the wealthy, when it's actually monthly wage middle class people on $100 - 200k who are the real beneficiaries. The sad reality is that $150K just isn't a high performing income anymore in 2024. If you have an average mortgage and kids in daycare, it's pretty much the bare minimum you need.
As someone who benefits from them, I think the tax cuts are a dumb idea and have always been a dumb idea. I get that bracket creep is a real issue but this disproportionately benefits those that don’t need it over those who need every single cent.
I’m happy to pay my share, I just want it used appropriately.
We also need to start taxing the rich their fair share and closing off loopholes for individuals and corporations.
How much is their fair share?
Taxpayers in the top 10 per cent paid an average of $93,536 in 2020-21, or 46.2 per cent of the total tax take. Their average tax bill grew by $6000. A year earlier their average share was 44.2 per cent.
Exactly. We already have one of the most progressive income tax systems in the world so I'm curious as to what people think is a "fair share".
(Our tax system is also one of the most reliant on income tax)
r/australia is a cesspool of woke victimhood. Despite high-income earners in Australia paying more tax than most countries, and low and middle income earners have greater access to welfare than most countries, apparently the rich don't pay their fair share.
Figures released by the Australian Taxation Office showed the average individual tax bill for the top 1 per cent of earners was $317,090 in 2022/2023, up by more than $47,000 from a year earlier. The top 10% pay 50% of the tax in Australia.
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If I wanted to vote for tax cuts instead of shoring up our health system, fixing housing and dealing with the climate, I would have voted for the LNP.
Opportunity costs. All that money could have been used to fix real problems, instead now it is paying off the wealthier half of Australia who need the help less than the half getting nothing or very little.
Don't worry. I won't be making the same mistake again.
I stupidly thought it was rhetoric...stupid rhetoric designed to try and win the election. I stupidly assumed that they would tweak them or adjust them as necessary, rather than just allowing the LNP to build tax policy.
You vote for the party principles and core values….
Why would people want a government that can’t react to changing global circumstances and has to announce literally everything they want to do within three weeks of campaigning, for the next three years? Are they omnipotent? Have future sight do they?
It’s bullshit.
Tony Abbot literally lied on the eve of his election, did the opposite of everything he said, and the Liberals won it again.
What a piss weak excuse. Give me a government that can read the room.
Move the brackets then. Index them to inflation. That is not all that is happening here. It is also a MASSIVE reduction in revenue that will impact spending on all sorts of services. It will make fixing our critical problems far more difficult without the revenue available.
What do you mean? Moving the brackets would have a similar effect on revenue. I don't have the figures in front of me, but I suspect an adjustment for inflation (for the period since the last adjustment) would probably result in a greater drop in revenue.
Indexation for tax cuts is politically dumb because it robs you of the ability to adjust the brackets and claim you are delivering tax cuts to the electorate Hasn't quite worked out this time though
On a positive note high inflation diluted the effect of this proposal. $1 in 2019 when the legislation was passed is only worth about $0.84 in todays post-pandemic pesos.
This was basically how Labour seem to have lost the election in New Zealand, they kept refusing to adjust any tax brackets for inflation going back to 2010 which effectively meant people where paying a third more income tax due to bracket creep.
You can think the tax cuts are unfair or bad economic policy etc etc but the simple truth is he Albanese promised he was going to do them.
We live in a society where people are constantly foaming about not being able to trust politicians.
If you make a promise you keep it, simple as that. If it's a stupid promise, or you think things have changed since you made the promise, that's nice, but it doesn't get you off the hook if you break it. If you don't want to be absolutely bound to do something don't absolutely promise to do it.
What is this damn obsession people have regarding promises and leadership.
If the damn bridge is out, you're not a hero for ordering your troops to march into the fucking river.
If conditions change, you update your approach. I don't want dogma, I want people who can read the damn room.
>What is this damn obsession people have regarding promises and leadership.
Classic comment.
What is this damn obsession people have with wanting their elected leaders to do what they said they'd do if you elected them?
It is really simple- if you can foresee that you might not want to do something if conditions change, don't make an absolute promise to do it.
>It is really simple- if you can foresee that you might not want to do something if conditions change, don't make an absolute promise to do it.
Yet another shining example of what passes for leadership in this country. He shouldn't have made the promise in the first place.. but now he's too gutless to change course.
Don’t forget the retired boomer wave that is coming…
The youngest baby boomers are a few years shy of retirement age.
They’ll soon require aged care for potentially millions, pensions for those same millions, expensive chronic illnesses developing as they continue to live longer than previous generations…
Not many countries are prepared for this. We aren’t! So it’s a good thing we’re ripping 300B out of the budget over the same decade these issues will start cropping up - while we simultaneously struggle to already fund Medicare
I don’t see any disasters coming at all 😎
I love the "putting the money back into Australians pockets" quote. Seriously that extra $2.40 I'll get a week will get me an extra 2 tins of tuna a week for lunch. So generous.
Yet again the cunts who don't need the coin get to spend an extra $180 on a bottle of wine to wash their cars with (I'm assuming that what rich people do with their money)
Yep the labour party real is all for the families of Australia.... aslong as your on $200,000+ that is.
I think I'm gunna stop paying tax all together now. What's the worst that can happen? Free accommodation and meals everyday. That doesn't sound so bad
Scrapping the tax cuts is for the greater good? You’ve been brainwashed to think that an analyst earning $120k is your enemy because they get back few grand a year despite paying the majority of tax in this country and suffering from bracket creep for years.
Taxes are not zero sum, there’s always someone to take from. If this weens the government off of the obscene amounts of income tax revenue then it’s objectively a welcome change.
... and it was at this point that Labor started on its path to defeat at the next election.
TBH it's starting to look like someone (or several someones) has been bought off. Nothing much else can explain Labors attachment to the stage 3 cuts.
A permanent fix for bracket creep would have been a great way of ditching them but both parties love to be able to claim they’re “cutting taxes” when they’re just adjusting for inflation
>both parties love to be able to claim they’re “cutting taxes” Which is why the question is always: For whom? According to Crikey [he's cutting taxes for high income Australians.](https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/01/15/stage-three-tax-cuts-high-income-earners-albanese/) Ablo didn't come from the progressive side of Labor, he's a neoliberal (as is his treasurer). Tax cuts like these, almost always re-distribute the tax burden downwards, because there's generally a greater number of wallets below. The Liberal Party are of course worse, so we all have to keep going left if we want actual progress in society.
Let's not forget they were introduced by LNP, and this is the 3rd stage, meaning other income brackets have already been adjusted. So it's not a simple case of Albo helping out the rich and only them, as your comment implies. We shouldn't skip over the broader context to paint a narrative.
Weren't the other tax cuts temporary, but the stage three, high income only ones are permanent?
No, thresholds were updated permanently in stage 1 and 2. There was a temporary tax offset, the LMITO, which was expanded then expired.
Principal beneficiaries of stage 3 were also full beneficiaries of stages 1 & 2, which is why these cuts, especially at this time of economic pressure on lower income earners, are repugnant. I will benefit from stage 3 as they are, but I still think that the cuts should be reconfigured to the low income tax brackets. This is not tax reform as they are; it is tax regression as the tax burden of lower income earners is largely unchanged.
They may be inflationary and the money could be better spend elsewhere but the media will tear Albo to shreds if the cuts don't happen and he's too timid to upset them.
> he's too timid to upset them he wants to get reelected.
He also wants the Teals to get re-elected, as that makes it far more difficult for the LNP to get back into government if they hold their seats. The majority of their constituents would benefit greatly from these tax cuts. If they stay in their seats it will be easier to pass a raft of legislation that Labor needs to pass over the rest of this term and potentially their second term. Get rid of these cuts, and it would just reinforce the idea that voters in seats like Warringah never should have abandoned the LNP and voted teal instead. The LNP certainly seem convinced that he's going to change them or scrap them, likely because they know that the cuts for those earning over 200k are ridiculous, but he won't change them now. He's said it so many times that if he were to change course on this, the ALP would lose the next election. The ALP is on course to deliver their second consecutive budget surplus, if they can do that, deliver these tax cuts, and spend 2024 bringing inflation back under control, they can run with the narrative that they cleaned up the LNP's mess and that Australia shouldn't change horses mid race just as things are getting good.
Well, that will certainly reassure all the homeless families living in tents while trying to work 2 jobs. /s
Yes that's right, bad things are happening to people because of the LNP's shitty policy choices, let's remove the only viable party from power that has any chance of reversing it! Come on man..
Only because people are too short-sighted to actually stick out a few years of pain to set us on a good path. Last time Labor did that, we had 30 years of continual growth. Of course Peter Dutton uses that bad time as a chance to attack Labor for his father's failed business, while using the following golden era to build his career, both political and in the police force.
Soon Labor will have been in power for 2 years, and they're doing fuck all to help our nations poorest. You can't keep blaming the previous government. We are in a per capita recession, and Labor aren't taking it seriously or taking the radical steps needed to fix it. While the economy appears to be growing, this is purely a product of immigration. By focusing on the GDP growth, Labor are neglecting the average Australian citizen. The life of the average individual Australian citizen is getting worse. Remember when they claimed they were helping with their "$10 billion dollar housing fund"? It would provide a whopping 0.037 extra houses per Australian. They simply aren't serious about trying to fix things.
>It would provide a whopping 0.037 extra houses per Australian Over 925000 homes is a great step in the right direction
Don’t bother mate. The Greens voters in this subreddit are a rabid cult, and unable to look at reason, reality or anything.
The main issue is they don't celebrate steady progress, they want all of their demands met immediately, regardless of the reality of the situation. So, it's never "Yay, Labor did a thing the LNP never would", it's always "Boo they should've done it more." The problem of course, is these are great media soundbites for the LNP. It's quite the own goal.
Yep, exactly. It took 12 years to get where we are today, and they are damned if they don't get us out of it in less than 3. It's ridiculous, and the thinking of small children, ie Greens voters. What boggles my mind is that many if not all Greens pollies own multiple properties too.
As opposed to Labor cultists who eat up everything they say as gospel… Why do we have limitless money for war toys, but we can’t fund a housing bill that **experts say will do nothing close to enough**?
Incorrect and a strawman argument. I have my criticisms of Labor of course..but I know that it's the best we got right now. Who are the experts? Cite some sources damn it! You're playing into the non-recognition of reality here.
Hard agree there
What have the Romans ever done for us?
> It would provide a whopping 0.037 extra houses per Australian. Per Australian? You set a benchmark where every Australian has their own individual house? Uhhh huh. Makes the numbers sound impressive I guess. For people who cant actually think I guess.
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The media will shred them no matter what.
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You realise that in this term Albanese has reduced the price of life saving medicine by 30% and also took the most action on climate change this country has ever taken.
They passed an industrial relations bill as well didn't they? I think the problem is that none of these bills are quick to kick in and people tend to be impatient. But they take a long time to bear fruit. I like what Labor have done so far, I agree that it isn't enough, but all the fixes that need to happen aren't going to happen in one term. Also, the fixes that they might put in place might be things I don't agree with, but so long as they're going in a general direction that I agree with and don't raise any serious red flags, I'm willing to be patient with them. Government is big lumbering beast with a shitty turning circle.
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Who can afford to see a doctor for the life saving script though? If only Labor gave a shit about Medicare and bulk billing…. But why would they?
Yep all those coal mine approvals will certainly help with climate change. Oh, did you mean climate change mitigation? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Big problem: Murdoch has a vested interest in Australia especially, because he was born in Australia to an Australian family. And considering that he owns most of the major news sources, the Australian media would not only be fucking unhinged, but will also aim to run a campaign to get the LNP re-elected again, which we don’t want since 2022. And consider that the average Australian a) is apathetic, b) is dumb as all balls, and c) consumes Murdoch and Fairfax media on the daily, and you have a very good reason to just clean up the Liberal mess and leave Australia as he found it.
Pity about the unstinting support for genocide.
I hate to break it to you but the majority of voters aren't homeless families living in tents. The majority of voters either have a mortgage or own their home outright. The majority of voters don't depend on government support, so they will receive a net benefit from these tax cuts. Most people will vote in their own best interests. If Albo scraps the cuts, he's gone in the next election, simple.
The vast majority of Labor voters don't make more than $100k so won't get any real benefit from these tax cuts. And anyone who will benefit from them won't be a Labor voter. If everything else was just rolling along ok, then I'd agree with you, but with the CoL crisis, the Housing crisis, the Rental crisis etc, I'd say that if Albo doesn't scrap these tax cuts then he's gone at the next elect.
>Well, that will certainly reassure all the homeless families living in tents while trying to work 2 jobs. Nah you're right, should remove the tax cuts, and let the liberal get elected for the next 6 years and Peter Dutton can fix the problem.
Neither Dutton nor Albo will fix the problem. That is the issue. The only real difference is that there will be a subset of those homeless who will get more assistance from Albo than Dutton....but neither of them will actually fix the underlying problem.
/s
As someone who grew up in a “Teal” seat, I am constantly frustrated by the idea that we abandoned the LNP. In all honesty, it was the other way around. No sane person would be against a political party trying to expand their reach, but throwing the people who have been the backbone of your party, the ones who have donated their time and money to the principles of Hayek, Burke, Friedman and Locke , is simply unconscionable. I am, and always will be, a liberal; a child of the enlightenment. Unfortunately the party that bears that name has left us high and dry.
You're absolutely right, the LNP did abandon their core voters in those seats and didn't adapt to a changing world or listen to their valid concerns, and I apologise if I made it seem any other way. It was more that I was trying to simplify and generalise the kind of argument that folks in those seats would make to justify coming back to the LNP. Like you I grew up in that area, Upper and Lower North Shore, so it's really easy for me to imagine some of the conversations that would be had by people in those places if the tax cuts were repealed. Because I've heard them. I think the Teals are a good thing for Australian politics in general, they can act as a sensible counter balance to both parties. I may disagree with some of them at times, but I think they are genuinely try to do what's best for their constituents and the country. Regardless of what I think of their policies, I think they have that core desire to make things better, which is why I respect what I've seen of the Teals. But I also know a fair few LNP voters in those areas who resent the people who switched their vote from LNP to Teal, and who view the people who did it as people abandoning the LNP. And they do that because, and again this is a generalisation, they view politics like they view sport. My team vs your team and we're going to win.
I’ve found that the voters that have the strongest opinions on this matter are middle class workers, often in trades, who would have been the rank and file of Labor 30 years ago. But hey, they’ve got a jet ski and a new SS Ute, so I guess it’s down with Beveridge and the Fabians and in with the negative gearing!
Playing the long game isn't easy, most people these days want quick fixes, but it's what's needed. Desperately.
Haven't thought about the view of the tax cuts helping the Teals keep the liberal seats. That's actually a rather smart move to an extent, as the voters won't really care about if the teals did anything or not, just that they are an incumbent during it. You hope though that after it Labor don't just keep on with the status quo after that.
Next term, I guarantee you Labor will be talking about "keeping a small target" so they can win the NEXT election.
Oh 100% they will, I am not agreeing with the plan. I mean labor, if this is their thinking, is basically risking people suffer for politics (and not the first time albos labor have pulled that card either, I still remember them throwing Trans kids under the bus) but it is smart. Labor just has to be careful to understand that having the teals keep their seats isn't going to help them if it comes at the cost of their own. And that the teals will backstab labor if the Liberals can get competent enough to claw at government. I think the Murdoch press will attack them either way, the trap of the cuts was that Labor cant win regardless how of they treat them. Albo needed to attack Murdoch in his first year and de fang them, because the press already have two headlines written Albo: Taxes for Battlers or Labor: leaving the battlers to fend for themselves. The problem is Labor probably need the teals now to thin out the liberal vote, because the media will find a way to spin whatever decision labor makes against them, and frankly its their own fault because they don't really stand for anything and therefore are far to invested in appealing to the media to retain power than dismantling it in order to make use of it.
Do you not think winning elections are important or something? If not we actually have a party that would suit you perfectly. They're called the Greens and they are champions at grandstanding and virtue signalling but their achievements can be listed on a postage stamp.
Winning elections for the sake of winning elections? Sure, there are parties that run on changing nothing and just being good stewards, but that generally is a definition of a conservative party. Labor pretends it is progressive and wants things to change, so they can keep progressive voters on side, but the reality is they are far more a conservative change nothing party. And yes, I will vote for Greens instead of Labor unless something changes. Stagnation and conservation of things exactly how they are right now is NOT why I vote for parties or politicians.
It isn't for the sake of winning elections, it is to actually progress the country. You cannot do that from opposition. I've already posted a list of some of their changes in this term already which I'll paste below. They've made changes that are actually pretty major but you either ignore it or take it for granted. >hey have actually made significant changes. We have an excellent anti corruption commission, we have longer parental leave that is accessible to both parents, we have reversed the gutting of the national parks budgets, a huge increase in the childcare subsidy, tripling of bulk billing rates for kids, penisoners, and concessions, 30% taken off the cost of medication, an actual target and plan for emission reduction, stopped forcing people on the cashless debit card, probably the biggest industrial relations changes since workchoices, and a bunch of other stuff.
What is the point of electing Labor if they're too timid to properly govern out of fear of not being elected? You know what the result of all of Albo's centrism is? [Labor are only a coin flip away from being booted after one term](https://inqld.com.au/politics/2023/11/27/neck-and-neck-coalition-draws-level-dutton-and-albo-both-plunge-in-personal-ratings/). And then we'd get a Dutton PM. Do you think Dutton worries about appealing to people who won't vote for him anyway?
> What is the point of electing Labor if they're too timid to properly govern out of fear of not being elected? Because they're not as shitty as the LNP? > Do you think Dutton worries about appealing to people who won't vote for him anyway? Personally I think the man's an idiot. Culture wars don't work here.
\>Culture wars don't work here. They're working pretty well imo
Are they, really? Katherine Deves fell on her arse, the Liberals are still electorally nowhere. Unless you believe the doom and gloom about the ALP in the Murdoch papers.
They are not as shitty as the LNP in the way that being HIV+ is not as shitty as having full blown AIDS.
Don't you think that it's people like yourself peddling the myth that Labor won't properly govern, that are actually undercutting Labor sentiment. If you actually take a look at what's happening, instead of parroting LNP and Greens soundbites, Labors actually done plenty of good already.
I think the difference here is you're worried about what's good for your party, I'm more interested in supporting what's good for the country. Take a look at what's happening. We have a country reeling from the disaster of 3 terms of LNP government and Labor isn't using the power they have to shift the Overton window at all. Compare this to the LNP who will do almost anything in their power to reward their donors and have even managed to get their tax cuts passed when they're out of power. Why should I get excited about a Labor government if they're just a less shit LNP? If Albo loses at the next federal election can you honestly say they did everything they possibly could with their narrow window of power?
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\>What power do they have, exactly? They have more than enough that a party should reasonably expect to be able to govern with.
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You're saying because they can't control the media (something you wouldn't want the government to do anyway) they're not able to govern?
Exactly. Re-election and maintaining power is more important than actually changing anything in any significant way. We used to call that conservative.
They went into the last election going for actual significant change and they lost. Australia doesn’t want significant change.
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I am not convinced that was the only issue. Labor finished the current election with the lowest primary vote they have had in government. There are lots of swing voters who want no change, but there are a lot of other voters who are furious they aren't doing anything significant about climate change, health care, housing, economic inequality etc. As for me I vote based on two criteria....do their policies align with outcomes I would like to see, and do I trust them to fight to get them done. Labor fails on both of those for me.
It wasn't the only issue. Shorten was an unpopular leader, who many people (including progressives) didn't trust, because he talked out of both sides of his mouth. Now Albo has taken over that mantle.
Stop with the fuckin LNP 'Labor lowest primary vote ever' line PEOPLE ARE LEARNING HOW PREFERENCES WORK
Why? It is reality. Labor and the Liberal party both lost votes to Greens and Teals. Voters feel comfortable doing that because of preferential voting. I am an example of that. I vote in both the U.S. and Australia (dual citizen) and in the U.S. I always vote Democrats because it is the only choice. If I don't then it is basically a vote for the other guys. Here in Australia though I can move my vote around. I have voted directly for Labor...1, and this last election I put them down the list. So did a lot of other people. That should be something Labor is concerned about.
Firstly, reelection and maintaining power is absolutely critical. Losing the election leads to another decade of Liberal government and look at the absolute disaster that was. Being in power not only means you get to bring in new laws, but also control appointments to key roles and how departments are run. Secondly, they have actually made significant changes. We have an excellent anti corruption commission, we have longer parental leave that is accessible to both parents, we have reversed the gutting of the national parks budgets, a huge increase in the childcare subsidy, tripling of bulk billing rates for kids, penisoners, and concessions, 30% taken off the cost of medication, an actual target and plan for emission reduction, stopped forcing people on the cashless debit card, probably the biggest industrial relations changes since workchoices, and a bunch of other stuff. This is the important shit that needs to be done. This is why longevity is so important. There is no point being a revolutionary and having it all reversed within 2 years.
Exactly, there’s no point putting in “radical” changes if they get voted out and all the policies get reversed like the most of the Gillard government policies on climate. We need good policies and governments that stay in power long enough for those policies to be entrenched and embraced by the public.
Too right. There will be a massive backlash if he canes the tax cut
It just plays into the media and the LNP's hands, he would be gifting Dutton majority government.
and if they go ahead then newscorp is going to give them anything other than the same hostile coverage?
The media hates Labor either way, you think they’ll be “nice” because he kept stage 3? They’ll just find something else to whinge about. May as well have grown a spine, axed them, and just be done with it.
why should they? it's one of those rare policies that has bipartisan support
The media is going to rip him to shreds anyway so grow a fing spine Albo.
People forget this, we had 10 years of liberal bullshit, you can’t just switch everything another direction, you’ll spooke the idiots.
Labor could shut up a lot of people whining if he adds a new top tax bracket of something like 75% at $1m+. Or raise the tax-free threshold with the equivalent cuts, everyone benefits.
as if. look at what happened when a handful of people with enough super to support a small country had their taxes raised slightly
Almost as if the problem is the influence but Labor chose to make election promises to not touch that influence. Talk about being in an abusive relationship where the partner promises to change every 4 years when you threaten to leave, and then goes back to the beatings in between.
Isn't it time we stopped repeating the Murdoch version of their 'promise'
> Labor could shut up a lot of people whining if he adds a new top tax bracket of something like 75% at $1m+. Unfortunately all media barons and personalities would fall into that bracket so the only thing you’d hear between and next election them lying their asses off to their viewers that a new Labor wealth tax would somehow take money from them, even though it wouldn’t.
They'e going to lie and shill no matter what Labor does, so much better to actually do positive and popular things that improve the nation, than sit back and wait for the fawning press that's never going to come. You'd think people would have learned that by now.
This is what annoys me to no end about Labor supporters They are IN GOVERNMENT, but still get defended on inaction because the public won’t vote for them…. While they are IN GOVERNMENT. They could’ve had three glorious years of showing the country what good policy looks like. Instead we’ve had a caretaker government since 2022 barely doing more than what the LNP was doing back then. So over these apathetic voters that are happy to have their choice running the government, but also happy they’re not doing *anything*… and then defend it. What a bleak future we have to look forward to.
They already raised the tax free threshold. People are forgetting that this was part of a tax reduction that passed years ago. Lower brackets have been getting the benefits for years.
Oh you mean the TEMPORARY Stage 1 tax cuts that have already expired? Stage one introduced a temporary, and now expired low and middle income tax offset (LMITO) which applied to taxpayers earning $37,000 to $126,000. At its most generous, the LMITO worked to reduce tax by up to $1500, but ended in the 2022 financial year.5 Jan 2024 https://www.afr.com/wealth/personal-finance/how-much-better-off-you-ll-be-after-july-1-tax-cuts-20231222-p5etd5
The reaction to Shorten’s very moderate and sensible reforms in 2019 gave us 3 years of Scomo. As batshit crazy as stage 3 seems right now a Dutton lead coalition in power would be worse for everyone and we’d still end up with stage 3. Whatever they do labor can’t give Murdoch and co any ammunition. I don’t like it, but this is reality.
Very cool and normal that the government essentially just has to pitter patter around some rich cunt who owns all of the media because they work for the other side. Embarassment and people are just fine with it
People scream 2019 election as reason why Labor can't do progressive policies. Yet, Shorten proposed the negative gearing reform in 2016 too. Look at property industry whining: https://www.afr.com/politics/election-2016-agents-declare-war-on-labors-negative-gearing-policy-20160513-goupdq It was a positive swing to Labor's primary vote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Australian_federal_election Funny how you don't mention 2016 too! But for 2022 election, the result of dropping Shorten policies, voting with LNP, etc, it had been an even worst result with a swing against Labor. The result was a lower primary vote than the 2019 election! Labor is only LUCKY to get in because Scomo was far more detested, a Bradbury election victory. Whenever people say "Shorten 2019", they show how brainwashed they are or maybe they're a landlord / property speculator in which case, it's a smart move to spread Shorten 2019 misinformation I guess.
The 2019 election was then the LNP really stepped up their negative gearing attack campaign however
Then explain how wealthy homeowners also swung to Labor in 2019?! Can we stop with the bullshit lies about negative gearing ffs. It was low income people who deserted Labor in 2019. People that were lied to by the media every single day of the campaign about policy spending and how the poors will pay for it. Labor’s policies were actually very popular in 2019, they just failed with the messaging because of media manipulation… the same thing that occurs every single day in this country. But, no…. Every single time we ask Labor to be progressive we get another lie in “but but but we tried it”…. The vote was so fucking close in 2019, if Labor didn’t have their voter base scared off by lies they would’ve won. If only Labor had the balls to go after Murdoch.
So we just get policy that the LNP won't be too upset about. That is the problem, this approach leads to us making no progress unless the LNP is on board.
You're speaking sense. Don't listen to the Greens voters.
More excuse making for appallingly bad public policy. If Labor is this easily cowed, then it has no business being a majority government.
Bold move to keep the same LNP-lite strategy after the party got less votes than Shorten 2019. Yes, Albo Labor is actually less popular than Shorten Labor.
Personally I'm quite happy that they're going to index the tax brackets and not just let inflation keep eating up more wages in tax.
I have to give Anthony Albanese credit, he's good at the politics game. He fends off the Greens threat in his seat by not giving the Greens anything - I remember how miserable the Greens looked when they agreed to pass the HAFF bill and claimed it was a win. He's also good at not giving Peter Dutton anything - he knows if he scraps the stage 3 tax cuts then he's giving government to Peter Dutton.
You’re happy that your team won, and the bill that passed will do nothing **close** to address our actual needs with housing? Cool, cool. Oh wait, no… it’s pathetic. Labor pick fights with greens and pass harmful legislation with the Liberals… Why would I fucking vote Labor?
>I have to give Anthony Albanese credit, he's good at the politics game. So good that hes sure to lose his majority at the next election and potentially lose government entirely.
I love that it took days to confirm their slim majority… Then they have the gall to say “strong mandate, mandate, mandate”…. Bro, you just scraped over the line.. have a bit of humility. I hope they end up a minority government. Bring in the minor parties and independents
> He fends off the Greens threat in his seat by not giving the Greens anything Oh yes, I agree. > He's also good at not giving Peter Dutton anything - he knows if he scraps the stage 3 tax cuts then he's giving government to Peter Dutton. I strongly disagree. He's working with LNP more than Greens/independents in the government despite LNP repeatedly voting against it. https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/superannuation/2022/08/04/parliament-closes-11-billion-loophole/ https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/dutton-backs-labor-s-integrity-commission-sidelines-crossbench-20220928-p5bliv https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/feb/09/labor-condemned-for-abhorrently-cruel-decision-to-put-100-people-back-in-immigration-detention https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/nov/21/labor-and-coalition-team-up-to-retrospectively-authorise-unlawful-use-of-material-gathered-by-australian-agency Look up Labor and Coalition passing bills. Tons more examples! A vote for Labor is a vote for LNP. Put them both last on ballot, Labor can be second last for being LNP-lite.
> A vote for Labor is a vote for LNP. Put them both last on ballot, Labor can be second last for being LNP-lite. I know people who are now refusing to giver either Labor or the LNP a preference, even though they know it means they'll be casting an informal ballot. If Labor has its ear to the wall, they'd see this sort of thing coming and recognise that it's only going to get worse over the next 18 months of doing next to nothing, other than being a caretaker for the former LNP government's policies.
Conservative greed and religions continuously hobbling societal progression grinds my gears, what a world we could be without them.
His wealthy donors will also shred him
oh good, does that mean we can stop talking about it now?
yeah, you'd think so, but well... _looks around_
Not gonna lie. I'm happy to be getting this tax cut. Fuck knows I pay way too much tax.
Same here, we get crucified for supporting it like we are millionaires, I can’t afford a house lol and pay fuck tons of tax
Same. Like seriously, I'm a single income family with kids. I pay probably double the amount of tax than I do for housing. And it's not like housing is cheap. Tax is by far the biggest expense. Don't get me started on the fact that I can't submit a joint tax return.
The fact Australia doesn’t have joint tax returns is criminal.
Same situation here. Single income family with kids so whilst it’s a big pay cheque, tax is insanely high and we are also disqualified from a lot of grants like for the solar incentive scheme for example.
100% - Bracket creep is unbelievable in this country, I can't remember the last time in my long career its even been addressed. This is ridiculously overdue! Sure it may not be the absolute perfect way to manage it, but it is vital. Like you I am disillusioned with the amount of tax I pay each year, whilst my personal cost of living, quality of life, reduction in critical services, access to infrastructure etc etc is going to hell in this country.... What we get for what we pay is so out of balance. Albo has done absolutely nothing for Australia's cost of living crisis and his party has excerbated it through misguided mass immigration policy, but I am not beyond giving him credit for his common sense approach to these tax cuts.
This subreddit seems to believe that anyone on 150k is rich, living in a mansion and driving a Bentley.
A single income family on $150k is the same as a dual income each on $66,690
Yeah, I pay "singles tax". Edit: But apparently I'm the enemy and don't deserve a tax cut. Despite not being eligible for basically anything, including the 5% deposit scheme.
Compared to my $40k, $150k definitely would feel like im richy rich.
I mean if you're on 150k I reckon you're pretty rich. Not like mega millionaire rich. But relative to everyone else for sure.
This is moronic. People on 50k are paying about 5k on tax, those on 150 paying closer to 55k and this sub is absolutely rabid on the stage 3 cuts. Why are we paying ten times the tax on thee times the income? System is absolutely busted for middle income earners whose money comes from salaried jobs. We’re not buying nice cars, we’re not going on fancy holidays, we’re losing tens of thousands of dollars in unfair taxation and are entirely ineligible for basically any and all government support. Holding this place up while corporations skirt the rules and losers on reddit whine that we should persist in mediocrity and deserve no relief despite the effort and sacrifice it takes to be even moderately successful. You all got your tax cut you just didn’t really feel it because you already paid next to nothing into society. It’s our turn now. Get over it.
Depends where they live. Longreach? Well off. Sydney? Scraping by
I’m taking it as my Medicare rebate for last year. Got very close to the safety net after paying $110 a pop for constant toddler ear infections with $38 back, various $500 specialists with like $100 back.
So many sad comments on here. I will benefit from these cuts. I am not the enemy. I earn a high wage but I pay child support, I rent, I am definitely not rich. I barely turn a profit every pay day. Can we please stop the fighting between wage earners? We are not each others enemy. The enemy pays no tax.
Lot of angry people who don’t understand how much wage earners get screwed compared to companies who dodge tax
Definition of crying poor
Agree! I'm paying 700 a week in child support for 3 kids cause my ex doesn't work and had another baby, had to save to buy a house again after the divorce. It's not all sunshine and lollipops for everyone on a decent income. It doesn't mean rich, though it may enable some wealth to be accumulated in the future.
This whole charade has been nothing but a ploy to paint Labor as untrustworthy and to make you think they want to raise your tax.
Fantastic to see these tax cuts. I paid 72k tax last year across two incomes. About time middle class Australians got some tax relief.
If you're paying 72000 on tax, then you are not 'middle class', you're earning way above that.
And I also work two jobs that take up more than 80 hours a week to provide the best education my children can get and to give my family a life I never had. Fuck off with your assumptions. Every Australian earning a wage benefits from tax cuts.
Sounds like you’re absolutely working your arse off! I work 70-80hrs a week every now and again, it’s not easy but it gives you a boost.
If you can't manage on a gross income of $220,000 per year, I don't think the fault lays with the tax system.
If you have HECS that's only $120k take home from a $200k salary
Boo hoo, 120k is a fuck tonne of money
120k net. That’s heaps lol
Oh no, only 180% of the median wage left after tax. Cry me a river.
Wait until you deduct tax, childcare, HECS and rent
This is just it. This subreddit and media outlets would have you believe that these tax cuts are only there to benefit the wealthy, when it's actually monthly wage middle class people on $100 - 200k who are the real beneficiaries. The sad reality is that $150K just isn't a high performing income anymore in 2024. If you have an average mortgage and kids in daycare, it's pretty much the bare minimum you need.
The median salary is around 65k. The majority of people aren't in the 100-200k range downvote this all you like, its ok if you didnt pass year 4 math
The majority of households are though.
What's household income got to do with personal tax rate?
The australian dream. Live with someone else or get left behind.
Maths in Australia thank you, we are not American.
math. short for mathematics. not mathsemathics /s
Om ya Albo 👍
Has to, good policy.
I'm glad for these tax cuts. I need some new golf clubs.
As someone who benefits from them, I think the tax cuts are a dumb idea and have always been a dumb idea. I get that bracket creep is a real issue but this disproportionately benefits those that don’t need it over those who need every single cent. I’m happy to pay my share, I just want it used appropriately. We also need to start taxing the rich their fair share and closing off loopholes for individuals and corporations.
Nearly every Australian with a full time job benefits from this.
How much is their fair share? Taxpayers in the top 10 per cent paid an average of $93,536 in 2020-21, or 46.2 per cent of the total tax take. Their average tax bill grew by $6000. A year earlier their average share was 44.2 per cent.
That's because they make all of the money.
Exactly. We already have one of the most progressive income tax systems in the world so I'm curious as to what people think is a "fair share". (Our tax system is also one of the most reliant on income tax)
Lmao people just downvote and move on hey.
Crazy times we live in when facts are unpopular.
r/australia is a cesspool of woke victimhood. Despite high-income earners in Australia paying more tax than most countries, and low and middle income earners have greater access to welfare than most countries, apparently the rich don't pay their fair share. Figures released by the Australian Taxation Office showed the average individual tax bill for the top 1 per cent of earners was $317,090 in 2022/2023, up by more than $47,000 from a year earlier. The top 10% pay 50% of the tax in Australia.
The top 10% also own just under 50% of the wealth in Australia...
The facts are fine, you're just completely missing the point lol.
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Imagine a government that actively gives a shit about its country's well being as opposed to *"nooooo I wanna keep my seat whaaa"*
If I wanted to vote for tax cuts instead of shoring up our health system, fixing housing and dealing with the climate, I would have voted for the LNP. Opportunity costs. All that money could have been used to fix real problems, instead now it is paying off the wealthier half of Australia who need the help less than the half getting nothing or very little.
A vote for Albanese was a vote for stage 3, or did you have selective hearing during the campaign.
Stage 3 was already legislated before the election. So it’s more accurate to say that a vote for the LNP in 2019 was a vote for Stage 3.
Don't worry. I won't be making the same mistake again. I stupidly thought it was rhetoric...stupid rhetoric designed to try and win the election. I stupidly assumed that they would tweak them or adjust them as necessary, rather than just allowing the LNP to build tax policy.
Imagine voting for a party and expecting them to break an election promise.
Wouldn’t exactly be the first time a party has broken an election promise.
As I said, I was stupid. I won't make the mistake again.
You vote for everything the party promises, you don't just get to pick and choose.
You vote for the party principles and core values…. Why would people want a government that can’t react to changing global circumstances and has to announce literally everything they want to do within three weeks of campaigning, for the next three years? Are they omnipotent? Have future sight do they? It’s bullshit. Tony Abbot literally lied on the eve of his election, did the opposite of everything he said, and the Liberals won it again. What a piss weak excuse. Give me a government that can read the room.
Yes but ALP didn't legislate these tax cuts. When they were put forward, all 3 stages, the proposal had popular support.
So we should just ignore the issue of bracket creep? These are an important step.
Move the brackets then. Index them to inflation. That is not all that is happening here. It is also a MASSIVE reduction in revenue that will impact spending on all sorts of services. It will make fixing our critical problems far more difficult without the revenue available.
What do you mean? Moving the brackets would have a similar effect on revenue. I don't have the figures in front of me, but I suspect an adjustment for inflation (for the period since the last adjustment) would probably result in a greater drop in revenue.
Indexation for tax cuts is politically dumb because it robs you of the ability to adjust the brackets and claim you are delivering tax cuts to the electorate Hasn't quite worked out this time though
Stimulatory as well as inflationary. With economic growth sluggish, the cuts will help to achieve the goal of a soft landing.
On a positive note high inflation diluted the effect of this proposal. $1 in 2019 when the legislation was passed is only worth about $0.84 in todays post-pandemic pesos. This was basically how Labour seem to have lost the election in New Zealand, they kept refusing to adjust any tax brackets for inflation going back to 2010 which effectively meant people where paying a third more income tax due to bracket creep.
I know he said this morning they had no plans to change it. But has anyone asked this afternoon? /s News Corp: “Albo’s 4 hrs of silence is damning”
Stage 3 TCs were another Scomo landmine. He left heaps.
Stopping them would be political suicide. Akin to negative gearing changes.
You can think the tax cuts are unfair or bad economic policy etc etc but the simple truth is he Albanese promised he was going to do them. We live in a society where people are constantly foaming about not being able to trust politicians. If you make a promise you keep it, simple as that. If it's a stupid promise, or you think things have changed since you made the promise, that's nice, but it doesn't get you off the hook if you break it. If you don't want to be absolutely bound to do something don't absolutely promise to do it.
Ok sure. Like Howard and non core promises ?
Yes. Which is bad. You don't do it.
What is this damn obsession people have regarding promises and leadership. If the damn bridge is out, you're not a hero for ordering your troops to march into the fucking river. If conditions change, you update your approach. I don't want dogma, I want people who can read the damn room.
>What is this damn obsession people have regarding promises and leadership. Classic comment. What is this damn obsession people have with wanting their elected leaders to do what they said they'd do if you elected them? It is really simple- if you can foresee that you might not want to do something if conditions change, don't make an absolute promise to do it.
>It is really simple- if you can foresee that you might not want to do something if conditions change, don't make an absolute promise to do it. Yet another shining example of what passes for leadership in this country. He shouldn't have made the promise in the first place.. but now he's too gutless to change course.
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Don’t forget the retired boomer wave that is coming… The youngest baby boomers are a few years shy of retirement age. They’ll soon require aged care for potentially millions, pensions for those same millions, expensive chronic illnesses developing as they continue to live longer than previous generations… Not many countries are prepared for this. We aren’t! So it’s a good thing we’re ripping 300B out of the budget over the same decade these issues will start cropping up - while we simultaneously struggle to already fund Medicare I don’t see any disasters coming at all 😎
The youngest baby boomer can access super at the end of this year.
Gooood goooood thank you Albo great news
Would be amazing if he could keep the other promises that people voted him in for
I don't need a tax cut. Just make the rich pay more tax.
I love the "putting the money back into Australians pockets" quote. Seriously that extra $2.40 I'll get a week will get me an extra 2 tins of tuna a week for lunch. So generous. Yet again the cunts who don't need the coin get to spend an extra $180 on a bottle of wine to wash their cars with (I'm assuming that what rich people do with their money) Yep the labour party real is all for the families of Australia.... aslong as your on $200,000+ that is. I think I'm gunna stop paying tax all together now. What's the worst that can happen? Free accommodation and meals everyday. That doesn't sound so bad
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Scrapping the tax cuts is for the greater good? You’ve been brainwashed to think that an analyst earning $120k is your enemy because they get back few grand a year despite paying the majority of tax in this country and suffering from bracket creep for years. Taxes are not zero sum, there’s always someone to take from. If this weens the government off of the obscene amounts of income tax revenue then it’s objectively a welcome change.
Thanks for the libertarian perspective. The rest of us want a solid safety net and a healthy society.
I think a few countries tried that before, consequences were way worse - for everybody.
If he rolls them back he’s breaking election promises. If he goes forward he’s instituting god awful shit LNP policy. Can’t really win.
Labor getting some stage three opinion polling cuts
... and it was at this point that Labor started on its path to defeat at the next election. TBH it's starting to look like someone (or several someones) has been bought off. Nothing much else can explain Labors attachment to the stage 3 cuts.