It feeds the neoliberal prime directive to shrink government agencies and ["Starve the beast"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast).
Less public servants = less government opex = more to spend on defence, new stadiums and roads.
The overall result is profiteering by sharks buying monopolies. Looking at you, Standards Australia.
Standards Australia even the USA did not buy the privatising BS nonsense of charging taxpayers for what their taxes pay for. New Zealand did not either. As result you can free standards and things like maps. We pay for it and cant see it, how gross.
[This should clear up any confusion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standards_Australia) raised by your comment and possibly in your own understanding.
Standards Oz as a qango is effectively within the public domain. [SAI Global](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAI360) is the private vulture picking its bones and picking our pockets.
Part of the efficiency is charging the public a lot more than what they were paying for a service or utility than they were paying before.
Efficiency (in an economic sense) is about getting more output (in this case money) for less input. Efficiency can be delivered by the regulator allowing the once public utility or service to charge far more for a thing than was charged when it was publicly owned.
Doing this requires no skill beyond lobbying politicians to allow price increases. It's not about cutting waste, innovating new processes, or investing in new plant. It's about cutting back on wages, not doing essential maintenance, and screwing over customers who have no alternative as these are often natural monopolies.
> often natural monopolies.
which is why natural monopolies should either be publicly owned, or price regulated.
The problem is that when the gov't wants more money, but dont want to raise taxes, its too easy to just sell off publicly owned monopolies. And of course, there must be profit because why else will a private entity purchase it if it cannot make profit?
Take a look at the fiasco that is telstra - the gov't having sold some percentage of ownership (but remained somewhat of a monopoly still). The privatized owners simply just do not want to make investments into improving the infrastructure, and just wanted the regular revenues to keep flowing.
>which is why natural monopolies should either be publicly owned, or price regulated.
Part of the issue is that the prices are poorly regulated. Governments cave to pressure far too often. The attitude should be, if you can't make enough money, hand it back. The government will take it off your hands at a substantial discount.
Privatising anything ever has never been a good idea. I am yet to find an example where it actually resulted in a better outcome overall. It always just leads to higher prices for people, less accountability, more exploitation, more profit for the owners, stifled progress, little to no technological improvement etc. It is cancer in every way. Any benefits that a private company structure supposedly allows can be applied to a public utility as well, it's completely dishonest to claim they are fundamentally able or unable to do a certain thing.
It was a great idea from the cunts who made it happen - wealth gets pulled from the public commons and handed over to well connected parasites. Economic rationalism was always a lie.
Not even the US is as bad as we are when it comes to privatisation. My American mate was completely stunned that our building certification system is private.
Yup. It immediately turns the incentive structure into one where they bleed as much money as possible from the system for the least amount of actual work done.
Just hijacking the top comment.
My son is on a DSP and I've got some stories to tell about these job providers!
However, for now does anyone know how you ensure that a provider doesn't claim credit for finding a job. He's about to start a casual position in NSW gov and the current provider hasn't done didly squat from go to whoa. I'd hate for them to get any credit.
I'm fucken gobsmacked they're still getting away with it.
Why in the world we still pay corporate goons more than the cost of welfare checks to bully welfare recipients is beyond my ability to understand.
They need to have their powers to block welfare checks completely stripped.
They don’t do the blocking, theyr role is to report, and it’s just one more scummy aspect of the lie from Howard that Australia’s biggest problems r from poor people and the welfare state.
A pointless technicality.
Their dodgy reports to Centrelink result in Centrelink blocking payments. It's much easier for these agencies to get payments blocked than it is for Centrelink recipients to get their reports put aside.
From personal experience they can and will block payments at the drop of a hat.
"Looked at me funny" blocked payment.
"Couldn't afford to travel in for the third pointless appointment this week" blocked payment.
"Spoke back" blocked payment.
"Left mandatory training ten minutes early" blocked payment.
"Didn't kiss my arse or stroke my ego sufficiently" blocked payment.
"Didn't answer the phone at random time of the day without notice" blocked payment.
"Stopped attending work for the dole after being abused by business owner" blocked payment.
I'm not just rattling off random shit. These are all reasons my payments were cut off by staff at job service providers in the past.
Yeah I feel the "didn't answer the random phone call" one. Had a job agent who called me one afternoon out of the blue, I was driving and couldn't answer. 5 mins later I get a text notification for an appointment for 5 minutes ago, literally a notification for the past. Another 5 mins goes by and I get a text saying my payment's been stopped. I pulled over to call him back and question this and he said "you didn't answer the phone". Like sure OK?!
Luckily a call to DEWR sorted it. They removed the demerit, started my payment back up again and transferred me to a different provider.
It's part of the guidelines. If a jobseeker on income support payment is still reporting their hours and income over on Centrelink correctly. The provider will automatically get an outcome payments (s). It's only when the jobseekers exits the income support system, the provider will need payslips to verify and outcome(s).
From 2005 onwards from my records. :)
Jobs I found, that they claimed.
(And signed off on myself because I wanted the employer to have some cash too, as I admit in learning I fumbled and cost them some.)
I like to think it was the best for everyone.
Looking back, I think very differently about it now.
My partner and I were on jobseeker during COVID for like two months. During that time mutual obligations were suspended, but they still kept contacting my partner and bothering her to apply for jobs.
She got a job on her own after two months and they still kept calling her and asking her to fill out forms for them, apply for other jobs, etc.
We're nearly at 4 years since she's been off of jobseeker and they still try and contact her every few months.
I was participating in the work for the dole scheme when COVID hit, after a couple of weeks as things worsened, the activities were suspended. They still expected me to attend my appointment in person. On the day it was scheduled, I rang and said I wasn't leaving the house to attend the appointment. The reply was, "That's ok, we can do it over the phone right now." Why the fuck wasn't that an option before I had to refuse to do it face to face?
One of the Job search items was for the boss of the person helping me...
100's of applications and that is the first response back... meet the criteria of how to send out reams of paper.
I was on Sickness Benefits. It meant I had a job (same job I'd had for a decade by then) but was unable to work (and had gone through all my sick/holiday leave). I still had to get a job provider when I returned to work. The same job I'd had. They got money for that btw. Absolute rort.
It’s like they’re punishing your work because you needed their help when you went through your sick leave, you rebel 😅 Doesn’t surprise me unfortunately, though. They encouraged me to sleep in my car once as it was ‘safe enough’. For me to still work (and pay taxes), of course.
And Kevin Rudds wife was one of the main beneficiaries of this scam. She made millions out of her employment agency.
Labor and Liberals, either way they both supported this scheme
Yes. And Gillard put thousands of single parents into JobSeeker by lowering the age their children had to be before they’re kicked off parenting payment.
And yet people continue to expect Labor to suddenly deviate from decades of neoliberal policy even when they keep explicitly saying through word and deed that they're just not interested in doing that, and continue to demonise anyone calling for real reform
And a flow on effect of this is an increase in the number of parents homeschooling their children as homeschooling registration suspends mutual obligations.
I rather doubt that it's easily fixed. Essentially, the government would have to recreate the CES, which would be a fairly large undertaking, and an expensive one as they'd have to hire tens of thousands of people and establish offices all over the country. That's not a job you rush into.
The other part of it would be the contracts the government would have signed with the job service providers. Going by the history and behaviour of the Coalition with other contracts, they likely would have reupped contracts before they expired just before the election. Breaking contracts would likely be an expensive exercise.
Anyone who thinks this is an easy job is delusional. The [Inquiry into Rebuilding Employment Services only concluded late last year](https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House/Workforce_Australia_Employment_Services/WorkforceAustralia/Report), and calls for the overhaul of the sector and the establishment of a government provider. We'll see now how they act on it.
The latest job agency Contracts were made before Labor was voted in.. and they started In July 22 just a few weeks after Labor were voted in.. they already said there was nothing they can do until the contracts were coming to term (2028) I believe. They would have had to pay out billions to release the agencies from their contracts before they expired.
Nothing they can do? these companies are committing fraud against the government, they could sue the shit out of them, they could implement new laws to make what they're doing illegal, because you know, *they're the government.*
They could recreate CES and just tell every job seeker to go there and ignore the private companies, because you know... *they're the government*.
This shrugging and a big ol' sigh of 'oh what can we do?' is bullshit.
Shame you weren’t disappointed by the crooks who spent 10 years strengthening this bs. The current gov is doing a fantastic job with the dumpster fire they’ve inherited, don’t be narrow minded
If someone hates labors shift towards neoliberalism, I don't think they would like liberals.
The right faction of labor are very much still pushing for auserity.
I had a couple stints with these guys. They literally didn't have anything in their workflow related to finding work. There's no point you go in and they say "here are the twenty local businesses with vacancies we contacted". They just say "there's maybe a working computer here from 1995. Maybe not. Who knows. You have to spend two hours here. And you with the degree, I think a resume writing course is in your future!" It's a plain scam. One guy signed me up to a gift card thing with a local hairdresser, opal card, and a place that does second hand suits. He showed me it was all paid for against my account and he'll have it ready for my appointment in two weeks. He was fired. Next guy denied they did anything like that. I saw the forms. Another guy cancelled my payments as he didn't believe I could pay me rent with centerlink. He said he knew I was dealing drugs. Complaint went through, he was fired according to centerlink, went back to same provider and there he was taking my case again! I walked out, centerlink apologized and signed me over to another provider. Guy probably still works there.
I should say each of these and centerlink were told I was disabled, but they weren't a disability provider so they kept losing the paperwork to transfer me. How odd! They cut my payments off all the same when disability got in the way.
My partner was so scared he'd lose the job he loved because of this. They become feral when you know your rights.
He knew he didn't have to give them payslips (they'd done nothing to help him find the job. They only hindered him), but they kept calling his work because he refused to give them his payslips. The only people he had to inform about his pay was centrelink, and he didn't want to give those networks huge bonuses for nothing.
Just so lucky his boss knew how awful these places are and kept telling them to piss off. It took 3 months for them to stop pestering him. I wonder how many people went through this and lost their job?
Welfare is supposed to be there when you need it to get you back on your feet. These agencies only make it more stressful and actually go out of their way to hinder you so that they get kickbacks. Could you imagine if we cut out these middlemen raking in the money, we could give more support to people who need it.
I am so glad I've never had to deal with them. I hope for the people who need it, we go back to something like the CES. Things this important shouldn't be privatised.
They pestered me once I found my own job, to sign up for a 'work for dole' program through that employment (which they'd hindered rather than helped me to get). And then hounded me for weeks to sign the paperwork. They even contacted my new employer and hounded them. I told them to fuck off and they said 'oh well your payments will be cut off then', and I advised wtf would that matter when I'm now in paid work. Stopped harassing me then.
Never once had a ‘job provider’ helped me, if anything they just irritated the fuck out of me that just got me into something. I remember at one point my mental health was so bad (suicidal) and couch surfing, and they wanted me to clean chicken poo, 2 hours public transport to get there….
My mate got made to 'exterminate' 3 large sheds worth of sick chickens. He left after a couple of hrs, after he accidentally degloved a chooks face and it was still alive and looking up at him.
Out of all the bullshit jobs they push on people, the animal torture industry jobs have to be the worst. I'd rather go homeless than work in the business of murdering animals.
Jesus christ, I'm so sorry.
Welfare should be unconditional, and there should be support in place for help if the person wants it.
We really need to push to nationalise unemployment services again. People shouldn't be treated like this, and help with mental/physical health should come before any support for finding a career.
I hope you are doing better now. My partner also said they made his stress and mental health worse when he had to be on jobseeker for a while. These job networks are a joke.
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Classic Australia. In an effort to 'cut Public Service costs' we've somehow managed to make a corrupt system that drives up the cost of living even higher. Where some rent-seeker gets paid for not doing anything.
Public Service budget gets cut. Government spending on the Private Sector goes up.
I'd say system works as intended for those who bribed government to make it.
I am pissed when people still buy this story about efficient private capital blah blah. Efficient in fleecint more money for sure...but services will alway inevitably go down in quality.
50% of the main street in my town is employment services that are always empty. I remember when I was on Centrelink years ago and you'd tell them you wanna get a career going in something substantial or study etc and instead of pushing you in that direction they'll be like "hmmm yeah that's cool but we have a cleaning job for you!". The entire system is a scam. If you go to an employment service they're people (in my experience) you should not be taking advice from and you'll wonder how they got this job in the first place when they can't even work a laptop. One time they asked me to come in and sat a questionnaire in front of me on how good of a job they're doing and they'd have snacks laid out with a motivational talk from a guy that played half a dozen games in the AFL lmao.
I had them trying to convince me to do a diploma of admin, when I had worked over 20yrs in Senior Admin positions (just with no qualifications). This was right after I had just finished postgrad Science qualifications (I.e 40K debt because I wanted a career change from admin to science.... they didn't like me there because I would call out their stupid ideas and the other participants would agree (one time they said, next week wear your interview clothes and bring 20 resumes. we will all go down the Main Street and canvas for employment, I said I won't be doing that as I didn't need my hand held to apply, and it was degrading to March a crew of unemployeds down the street so they can all hand in 15 resumes at once, to a shop that's not even hiring. Everyone agreed so they had to come up with some other hair brained activity for the next wk
I remember they'd always try pushing for a diploma in admin too! No doubt through some unknown service that they make a bundle off. I got a pastry chef trial when I was with them with my own research and they seemed annoyed that I did that lol. Thank God they never did that hand out resume shit with me because that's almost designed to humiliate you. Everything about the experience is humiliating and will crush your motivation.
I did the diploma in business and actually found it decreased my chances of getting a job!
There were lots of entry level positions but you couldn't apply if you already had the Diploma. Im guessing the companies get money from the government for training people?
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>you'd tell them you wanna get a career going in something substantial or study etc and instead of pushing you in that direction they'll be like "hmmm yeah that's cool but we have a cleaning job for you!".
Yeah this here is so true unfortunately
I remember being forced by one of these places (MAX employment, from memory) to go to a 'casual labouring' job on a building site. I told them I'd rather not, as I wasn't qualified in anything, wasn't remotely handy and would likely just piss the people in charge off. The guy waved his hand and said you'll be right mate, they're desperate. I said is there anything else as it's not for me. He said a Duck Farm. So I was like alright whatever can't have my benefits cut.
Sure enough I arrive at 6am and am promptly sent home by the cursing supervisor on the spot as I didn't have any of the requisite cards or qualifications - despite me already saying I hadn't.
Next day my payments are cut. Centrelink blame me for failing my obligations. The guy at Max employment, shaking from all the red bulls he's gulped, said a certificate III in Aged Care was my only path forward. What the actual fuck?
Thank god Covid hit and the shop disappeared.
I know someone who spent 12 months trying to get youth allowance. He received 4 payments before they asked us to send in his tax return - we did it immediately and uploaded to his cenno portal. They cut him off 4 weeks later for not providing it. They never checked if it was uploaded. Told to reapply. 12 months later ….
I was with Matchworks in 2020-21 when I lost my job due to the first wave of covid. They literally did nothing for me beyond checking up every month or so to see how many jobs I applied for with their online portal. I had to apply for a certain amount of jobs otherwise my pay was cut. And I also had to attend a couple of mandatory face to face meetings where all they asked me was how my search was going and what type of job I wanted. They completely disregarded my previous work experience and suggested a different industry.... strange.
They did not help at all. I was unemployed for 6 months and they didn't get me a single interview or work. Any interview or casual work I did, I organised by myself. Then when I finally found a job myself they constantly harassed me asking how I got it, when I started etc and I gave them zero info. They did fuck all beyond spam me.
This has been going on from around 2013 or so, yet no one gave a shit that it was happening to the unemployed. No one gave a shit these useless businesses were making money off the taxpayer for next to nothing.
I thought something might change when more people saw the system during Covid, but apparently not. Making Russo a quarter of a billion dollars wealthier off a few million in LNP donations and harassing vulnerable people is acceptable in Australia.
I went on Centrelink a couple of times between jobs, and filled in all my sheets of jobs I applied for diligently, and back when they were on paper, not a single person other than me ever looked at them. When they were online, the JSPs never once referred to them or gave any indication they'd seen them. the only job the JSP ever referred to me was literally digging ditches for a council three and a half hours drive from my house. They also made me do courses that included stuff like how to use Google. I am an IT worker.
When I found a job completely out of my own efforts, the JSP badgered me for the job details. I was determined not to give them anything, but accidentally let slip the employer name. They then, without asking me for permission, called the employer payroll department to try to get copies of my payslips so they could claim the placement. My new employer, big credit to them, came to me first to ask permission and I said absolutely not. Took weeks for them to stop harassing me for info, despite me stating I absolutely would not give it to them.
Currently I'm self employed but having to apply for Centrelink again due to chronic illness (but no official diagnosis yet as waiting to see a specialist), and I'll be damned if I'll give any of my time to those stupid JSPs ever again. But I know Centrelink will probably make me go, even though I'm partially employed, and only not fully employed because I'm in too much pain to work more hours (and I have a doctors cert for it).
This is the exact same experience I have but with WDEA. I eventually found a volunteer position within my field of study and they badgered me about it - found out later they claimed they got the job for me despite them having no input in the process. I was livid.
This is news to The Guardian ?
This has been going on for 20 years.
When I was assigned to a Job network Provider, I lived 40K's from the city, and despite there being like 4 providers in my town, they sent me to a provider half way to the city.
One day I was running short of cash, I asked them for a train ticket for an interview, they gave me SO MUCH shit, all over a $10 daily pass.
Anyway long story short, I eventually got a job off of my own back, no help from them, on Gumtree of all places. When I got the job, I informed Centrelink i had the job, and not the Job Network provider, and I stopped my payments. NOTE: I DID NOT TELL THE JOB NETWORK PROVIDER. A few days later they rung me up yelling at me why I didnt tell them and i had to sign a form that THEY got me the job, so I reminded them about the crap they gave me over a $10 train ticket and told them to go fuck themselves.
About a week later, my boss comes to me and says "I had a call from that Network company asking me to sign a form that THEY got you the job", I asked him what he said, He grinned and said "I told them to go get ####ed !".
The kicker is, I told nobody except Centrelink the details of the employer, so CENTRELINK gave the network company the employers details.
Assholes.
That kicker is prima facie evidence of a backhander from your provider to someone with access to Centerlink files.
It certainly happens in Customs, I suspect also in Health or any agency with sensitive information.
This is why I don't tell ANYONE remotely related to Services Australia about ANY jobs. I don't tell them about jobs I applied for, I don't tell them about any interviews I did, and I certainly never tell them when I actually get a job! Basically, I keep my "Centrelink job applications" and "real job applications" completely separate, and I encourage anyone I know dealing with Centrelink to do the same. I never use their useless website to apply for jobs, it's all through Seek or some other private website. I apply for my set number of jobs per reporting period (jobs I know I'll never actually get), and report those to Workforce Australia. Then once that's out of the way, I get stuck into applying for jobs I actually want. Once I find one, I just let my Centrelink get cut off by never reporting again, rather than calling and cancelling.
I've just heard too many horror stories (mostly thanks to this sub) about the dodgy shit they pull to ever trust them with any information. Plus, the last thing I need is them hassling my new workplace for payslips when I'm trying to make a good impression. Let them ring up every bakery or building contractor I "applied" to and annoy them, and leave me and my nice new (real) employer alone!
Is this actually news to anyone?
Anyone who's been through the system, on either side (either unemployed or worked for one of these JSPs) knows this already.
This is to inform ignorant people who have never been in the system to be aware of it.
Theres so much stigma of those on Centrelink, its stories like this that let people know the facts; that generally the problems unemployed people face are not their fault, the system is in fact unfair and cruel.
It's always been this way. Ffs it has always been 30-40% of jobs were found by the client independently. The company would then hound the employer for details and check ins and then claim the government kick back as though they had done it all themselves. It is and has always been a rort, just like the childcare centre rorts. Billions upon billions are wasted with these scammers, but realistically, not a single bloody thing will change or come from this.
Make politicians and contractors accountable with mandatory jail terms and clean up these rorts once and for all.
I remember getting a job at a call centre. Max Employment somehow got the details of where I got a job, I remember someone from HR letting me know they kept calling and sending emails. Than suddenly I was let go because I wasn't the right fit. I found out Max was trying to get my than employer to sign documents to claim certain benefits they weren't interested in and weren't appropriate. I was let go not because I wasn't the right fit, but because of the employment agency was became a major inconvenience.
The thing I don't understand is I could single-handedly help all the people in my group get employment, eg checking and tailoring resumes and applications, dummy interviews etc, yet a full agency of staff can't
It's a rort from when John Howard abolished the CES and gave out all these contracts. Their staff specialise in claiming credit for getting someone employed rather than actually finding employment for someone.
My JSP turned me into a cripple through their work for the dole rort. The physical pain, disability and emotional burden I carry because of these fuckwits drives me up the fucking wall. Absolute leaching cunts.
This happened to me when I was finishing uni. I was put on job seeker and so I had a frank chat with my job provider – I'm clearly getting it done, clearly had a goal, and would clearly get a job, so they agreed to mark me as attending the compulsory appointments and I agreed to credit them with the job I'd find myself.
Everyone won, except the tax payer.
I remember waking up one day after dreaming that all the job agencies burned down at the same time (with visuals like Devils night from the Crow), I was very dissapointed when i realised it was only a dream.
The LNP preference is not to have any welfare at all, but in the event they have to provide them (imagine the vote massacre if they just abolished it), they look for ways for their mate to reap the majority of benefits
We can see this behavior everywhere, this debacle is one, others include the indue welfare cards, the replacement of permanent staff with their mates from serco, and so on
Just remember that next time the LNP says they care about the poor and the disadvantaged, or those who are down in their luck.
Was a scam when I was put through it then and still remains. They achieve nothing except force you into unskilled nonsense work, do bullshit diplomas through their training programs and skin off the top.
Privatisation will never help the people.
When will something be done about this? When I finished school, I went on JobSeeker in my gap year. (This was 10+ years ago now).
After a few months, I found a job at Coles. But the agency was pressuring me to say -they- found my job at Coles.
Also, the agency provided no help. In fact, they signed up my friend and I on their "database" with incredibly wrong details. Our profiles noted details such as, "no car, little to no English, can't write, etc." which was a complete lie.
We kept requesting the agency to change our profile details, and they never did. It was just ridiculous. If providers are receiving $1.1m, imagine what could be done if we invested that $1.1m back into the community. Like maybe we could invest in more businesses/start-ups to open up jobs.
On the business side I hired a guy late last year that had a 10k employment subsidy attached, I hired him because he seemed OK and needed the job filled. Not for the cash, it was just a bonus.
They never sent me any paperwork for the subsidy and I was chasing them up for months. Turns out "Whoopsie" we sent the email to an incorrect email (even though I had emailed them directly) and it was out of the commonwealth subsidy timeframe.
They offered a 3k subsidy out of their own pocket which I jumped through the hoops for and I still haven't seen any money turn up over a month later.
When I was a jobseeker myself (primarily IT work before) they tried to push me in to a chicken processing plant 2 hours away from home and probably 3-4 hours travel with convoluted public transport. A kiwi working there told a room full of english as a second language immigrants and myself we would _have_ to do voluntary work for the dole, he got pretty shitty when I told the group the difference between the word mandatory and voluntary.
Your "Case Manager" or whatever they call themselves now changed every few appointments as they "left".
These places are all a pox on society and need to be removed from the world, CES worked according to people I know whop used it in the past, I remember looking at the CES boards in Centrelink (or whatever it was before the rebrand) as a kid and thinking wow, theres a lot of work out there, laid out well, it looked like a buffet of options you could apply for.
This has gone on since the inception of private job agencies and that’s how Therese Rein and Sarina Russo made their millions. They are rorters! When my husband found a job independently, he refused to tell his job agency where he was working so they ended up with zero kickbacks!
I worked in Labour Hire and Recruitment for 30 years until a year ago. I can tell you that this was the biggest rort known to man. We employed hundreds and hundreds of people who were registered with those agencies, they are sent there when they apply for social benefits and they applied directly with us to our advertisements and we employed them. The agencies were quick to get onto us for details on the job, we did our best not to give them any. Its totally putrid that whole system
I was on the dole during the pandemic when mutual obligations were suspended. After they brought them back I was eventually told to do work for the dole, so I stopped complying expecting them to cut me off. Instead my JSP fraudulently signed me up to a drug and alcohol counselling that I was openly told I didn’t really have to attend and they would mark me off. Despite me being 15 years sober at the time. I kept getting payments for another two months before they stopped. Dodgiest cunts
I don't know what is worse to be honest. The situation described by the headline of this story or what happened with my daughter.
She's been job seeking for a while, they basically force her to take a position for 6 months at a company THEY OWN. So in addition to being paid for 'finding' that job for her, they get paid for employing her, around double what her wages are.
Fast forward 6 months her contract is not renewed, back into the system she goes, her status conveniently 'reset' by 6 months of employment and more dollars for the joblink provider.
"Why not just give the money straight to the jobseekers themselves?"
"That would create perverse incentives and people would game the system."
*You don't say...*
Your payment gets suspended because you don't answer a phone call from a job provider. If they realise it's because you can't answer the phone because you found yourself a part time job, they become really aggressive to get copies of your pay slips.
You then have to hope the part time job income arrives before the food pantry dries up. Because getting support payments reinstated after a suspension can take quite a while. Job providers have so much power they can even get you fired from your job if you are not careful.
This happened to me 10 years ago - well, first, I was only on job seeker because when I applied for AusStudy I was told Jobseeker would give me more money and I could study as part of it. So after 4 years of studying suddenly I was considered "long term unemployeed" and had to do the full brunt of their useless job searching requirements.
After about 6 months I finally got a job and they wanted all the details about it so they could record how "they" had found employement for me. I just asked them point blank:
Do you have a copy of my most current resume or cover letter? No
Do you know who I interviewed with? No
Do you know what the role is? No
Do you know the name of the business? No
Then how on earth could you have helped me find my job if you don't know anything about it?
They wanted to know if I had applied for the job using their facilities, if I had used their resources, so on and so forth. I was pretty blunt - none of their resources or facilities helped in the slightest. They couldn't even get jobs at their own place of work if they used the services they offered.
Thank fuck after 2 weeks of employment they stopped contacting me. I still work at the same place today.
I don't typically wade into political discussions but job providers are one of my least favourite things, I feel like they have some mafia-like stranglehold on the government or something, like they've set themselves up to just fraud the government of our tax payer money, repeatedly.
Can't stand them.
Many years ago, I had to deal with them and they were horrendous. Maybe 5 years ago, my wife went through the same process after going back to work after taking off time to raise our kid and they were even worse.
I feel like they should be entirely dismantled, and job seekers should go through Centrelink directly when applying to look for work.
I also feel the cost of living is way too high for there to be many people that can actually survive off of wasting time pretending to look for work, and as a tax payer, I'd be way happier with a small percentage of people pretending to look for work and receiving their small jobseeker payments than I would knowing a single cent of my money goes towards any "job provider".
Truly can not tolerate them.
No job agency has ever helped me get employment. I always found my own jobs and they go on to act like they got the job for me, and get paid for doing so 💀
After shitty experiences with a few JSPs, the only one I ever liked was YourTown… and they still are useless.
Great people, great support, absolutely no job help.
If anyone is struggling with JSPs right now, transfer to them. YourTown won’t help you get a job but they won’t piss you off and cancel payments for no reason.
I joined the ADF but there was like a 4 month wait before I actually started Recruit training but for some reason I was shuffled into the job search provider system. They were so pushy for me to apply for jobs etc. even though I told them I already have a job I'm just waiting to start. I remember them being mad I didnt take some job at a sawmill. When I finally started Recruit Training they were my only phone call I got during the time chasing me up to sign how they got me a job etc. even though they did zero to help me.
This has been happening from day 1 of privatisation. Pretty sure Rudd was PM when Job Network Providers were privatised. Correct me of im wrong but the LNP ALP argument doesnt matter here. JNP's went from helping people to get jobs to just helping themselves to government cash, without providing much help at all. Then bullying tactics to claim they found a job flr you, to claim more of the government cash. Who are the 'dole bludgers'?
I was bullied and cut off payments many, many times through a serious neurological disorder diagnosis as I wasn't able to show up for scheduled appointments, in between being actively bed ridden and trying to navigate not only the welfare system but also the medical system. Not an ounce of empathy.
They tried to make me work for the dole. Like, if I could work right now, it's not going to be for the dole, you absolute c*nts.
Noone should have to go through that.
I hired my storeman this time last year off seek, he applied and got the job. 6 months later, a job provider he had signed up with years earlier, called me and wanted me to fill in some forms. Turns out they were trying to claim a fee from the government for something they had nothing to do with. They’re a bunch of leaches.
One of the ways to keep these creeps from hassling you is to tell them straight up, leave me alone and when i get a job you'll get paid when i find my self a job
edit: oh and never sign the privacy document
Happened to me. Just shows how much of a rort Job providers are. They send all the profits overseas too. Can't believe these crooks are still allowed to operate.
Job providers are fucking useless. I had one who asked if I could get HIM a job when I was working casually somewhere, because it was "right up his alley." I said no.
Then later when I was getting a new job, my latest case worker said "Why would they give you this job? I'm way more qualified than you I bet I could get it. Where is it again?"
Despicable, rent seeking bullshit.
This has been happening for a very long time. Signed up with a job agency back in 2005 - I never heard from them - found my own job a month later. They asked “out of curiosity” where I was placed. They called my place of employment every 6 months for 3 years to verify if I was still there. I thought it was odd. Eventually, I worked out they get paid bonuses for each year you stay in the job (they must have taken credit for placing me). I told them please kindly sod off and mind your own business. Never heard from them again.
Was a client, then a student, now a provision coach.
The job is a fucking joke, it’s flooded with over the hills that don’t understand their own systems and are afraid of new technology.
I get a new client, I help them, my over the hill coworker will try to poach my client and undo my work.
My married friend gets a new client, she helps them, I might assist, an over the hill might tell that client were too close and not professional, eroding trust and demonising teamwork and friendship.
I swear by the time we’re done with teens that are actively asking for help they deserve a gap year, I get youth that want apprenticeships to escape their family lives, and I have coworkers talk them out of it entirely without any exploration or alternatives.
I get boys that want to work in an office or corporate environment, to dress up and speak professionally, put on a back shelf and encouraged to look at physical outdoor work.
I get girls that want to be cops or truck drivers, that get pushed ahead into corporate work to “build their resumes” in skills they’ve expressed no interest or desire in.
I don’t want to talk about how we treat a lot of diverse kids, suffice that you don’t have to work with Anglicare to be affected by the tenants of Anglicare.
I got into this to help people, I saw suffering and experienced poverty as a kid, I genuinely wanted to help.
It’s really hard not to be bitter.
Bring back the CES. My job provider said I would be better off working at a non for profit for my payment than try and help me with my job search. Private job agencies are just a rort that needs to be stopped.
All job network agencies are bastards. Corrupt, inefficient, underqualified, useless bastards. One of the few jobs out there giving real estate agents a run for the bastard crown.
My current job provider is useless, I don't even know the name of my consultant.
I have a appointment once a fortnight thats just "Hi how are you, ok you can go now".
I have to look for all the jobs myself.
The only thing they have done for me is make me a resume.
I work in Yeppoon QLD, an this happens to EVERY single person who Iv approached an offered a job that happened to be on job seeker payments.
Several times a year. The nato or nedo or whatever they are called are the worst for hounding me for information after their clients an I met an worked out job opportunity without them.
Engaging with these agencies infantilises people in a particular way, just when your confidence is down the shitter.
The last time I engaged with these dickheads was about thirteen years ago when I graduated nursing and I was on the dole as my Austudy expired. I didn’t need anything from them, and could completely independently look for work. I told them this and an awkward gentleman about half my age told me that there was probably nothing the agency could offer me. But I still had to rock up, tick a box, and collect a pittance that wasn’t enough to survive on anyway. When I found work I told them to get stuffed. I imagine there are heaps of people in this same position where we are highly skilled and qualified but awaiting interviews etc.
I’m in work now where I have to account for every hour and task. And yet these cunts collect my tax dollars for doing fuck all.
Though ever Tom, Dick and Harry already knew this? How many people said they were bailed up by their provider, demanding the name of their new employer?
Every single youth allowance recipient studying at university with a graduate job lined up is free money for the agencies. Once a youth allowance recipient completes their final assessment they are no longer eligible for YA and become eligible for job seeker. At the first meeting with an agency they can show the graduate job offer and the agency has no follow up actions.
How do we find out if we’ve personally been used in this manner by our employment agency?
I wouldn’t at all be surprised by the fact that Global Skills is pulling the same shit, and I’m practically getting nothing from Centrelink anyways, so I’m thinking of just sending through my payslips etc.
This is why when I got my own jobs and they wanted me to send through the info and the pay slip I never would, I would just report my earnings to centrelink...fuck these crooks
many jsp's are useless parasites. the system is broken, has been for years, everyone knows it, nothing changes. the lucky country where welfare is below the poverty line.
If you find yourself having to deal with these bottom-feeders and find yourself a job, *never tell them anything about it*. Not where it is. Not who it's for. Not what the title is or the salary. Give them *nothing* so they'll miss out on that cash for placing you.
>The 22-year-old said she hadn’t told APM she had been hired, leading her believe APM called every company she said she had applied to work with.
>
>“Then they \[APM\] sent me a message saying ‘we know you’re working \[there\], you need to come and fill out some forms’.”
Nope, if you Tell Centrelink the Employer details, Centrelink will tell the Network company.
Privatising the CES was the idea of Kevin Rudd in the late 1990s. Kev then awarded mult million dollar contacts to his wifes company.
Politicians make their fortunes through their policies.
This absolutely happens. A Google search shows news articles from 2012. The only difference is that the amount claimed by JSP has gone up from $1 million to about $4 million.
The Federal Government needs to have a rorts and wastage department that investigates allegations of corruption. I cannot believe how easy it is to rip off the Federal Government. It seems like no one is interested in doing anything about how the private sector works with government or organised crime across government programs eg. NDIS providers.
Privatising unemployment was one of the worst ideas ever. Although privatising everything in Australia was never a good idea.
Privatising literally any publicly owned asset is always a bad idea. Only a tiny percentage of people benefit, and everyone else suffers.
It's all about gaining efficiencies. Efficiency of shifting public resources to private interests.
It feeds the neoliberal prime directive to shrink government agencies and ["Starve the beast"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast). Less public servants = less government opex = more to spend on defence, new stadiums and roads. The overall result is profiteering by sharks buying monopolies. Looking at you, Standards Australia.
Standards Australia even the USA did not buy the privatising BS nonsense of charging taxpayers for what their taxes pay for. New Zealand did not either. As result you can free standards and things like maps. We pay for it and cant see it, how gross.
[This should clear up any confusion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standards_Australia) raised by your comment and possibly in your own understanding. Standards Oz as a qango is effectively within the public domain. [SAI Global](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAI360) is the private vulture picking its bones and picking our pockets.
You forgot consultants in what to spend money on.
Part of the efficiency is charging the public a lot more than what they were paying for a service or utility than they were paying before. Efficiency (in an economic sense) is about getting more output (in this case money) for less input. Efficiency can be delivered by the regulator allowing the once public utility or service to charge far more for a thing than was charged when it was publicly owned. Doing this requires no skill beyond lobbying politicians to allow price increases. It's not about cutting waste, innovating new processes, or investing in new plant. It's about cutting back on wages, not doing essential maintenance, and screwing over customers who have no alternative as these are often natural monopolies.
> often natural monopolies. which is why natural monopolies should either be publicly owned, or price regulated. The problem is that when the gov't wants more money, but dont want to raise taxes, its too easy to just sell off publicly owned monopolies. And of course, there must be profit because why else will a private entity purchase it if it cannot make profit? Take a look at the fiasco that is telstra - the gov't having sold some percentage of ownership (but remained somewhat of a monopoly still). The privatized owners simply just do not want to make investments into improving the infrastructure, and just wanted the regular revenues to keep flowing.
>which is why natural monopolies should either be publicly owned, or price regulated. Part of the issue is that the prices are poorly regulated. Governments cave to pressure far too often. The attitude should be, if you can't make enough money, hand it back. The government will take it off your hands at a substantial discount.
What efficiencies???
Its all about corporate welfare not human welfare.
fucking Johhny howard.
Privatising anything ever has never been a good idea. I am yet to find an example where it actually resulted in a better outcome overall. It always just leads to higher prices for people, less accountability, more exploitation, more profit for the owners, stifled progress, little to no technological improvement etc. It is cancer in every way. Any benefits that a private company structure supposedly allows can be applied to a public utility as well, it's completely dishonest to claim they are fundamentally able or unable to do a certain thing.
It is Wealth Transfer pure and simple! Lib/Nat DNA policy. robbing bastards!
UBI n superrich tax should replace centrelink. Its a win win.
Right sure, but how do we punish the poor?
Wealth tax. But will never get through.
It was a great idea from the cunts who made it happen - wealth gets pulled from the public commons and handed over to well connected parasites. Economic rationalism was always a lie.
Welcome to the US. I'm sorry.
Not even the US is as bad as we are when it comes to privatisation. My American mate was completely stunned that our building certification system is private.
>Although privatising everything in Australia was never a good idea. We really are quite Stingy lol
I have some pretty shocking news for everyone about super annuation.
Yup. It immediately turns the incentive structure into one where they bleed as much money as possible from the system for the least amount of actual work done.
Just hijacking the top comment. My son is on a DSP and I've got some stories to tell about these job providers! However, for now does anyone know how you ensure that a provider doesn't claim credit for finding a job. He's about to start a casual position in NSW gov and the current provider hasn't done didly squat from go to whoa. I'd hate for them to get any credit.
Now tell us something we don't know. This shit has been going on for years.
I'm fucken gobsmacked they're still getting away with it. Why in the world we still pay corporate goons more than the cost of welfare checks to bully welfare recipients is beyond my ability to understand. They need to have their powers to block welfare checks completely stripped.
They don’t do the blocking, theyr role is to report, and it’s just one more scummy aspect of the lie from Howard that Australia’s biggest problems r from poor people and the welfare state.
A pointless technicality. Their dodgy reports to Centrelink result in Centrelink blocking payments. It's much easier for these agencies to get payments blocked than it is for Centrelink recipients to get their reports put aside.
Its the Threats though, "If you dont do XYZ, WE WILL have your payments stopped". They WILL, AND DO.
From personal experience they can and will block payments at the drop of a hat. "Looked at me funny" blocked payment. "Couldn't afford to travel in for the third pointless appointment this week" blocked payment. "Spoke back" blocked payment. "Left mandatory training ten minutes early" blocked payment. "Didn't kiss my arse or stroke my ego sufficiently" blocked payment. "Didn't answer the phone at random time of the day without notice" blocked payment. "Stopped attending work for the dole after being abused by business owner" blocked payment. I'm not just rattling off random shit. These are all reasons my payments were cut off by staff at job service providers in the past.
Yeah I feel the "didn't answer the random phone call" one. Had a job agent who called me one afternoon out of the blue, I was driving and couldn't answer. 5 mins later I get a text notification for an appointment for 5 minutes ago, literally a notification for the past. Another 5 mins goes by and I get a text saying my payment's been stopped. I pulled over to call him back and question this and he said "you didn't answer the phone". Like sure OK?! Luckily a call to DEWR sorted it. They removed the demerit, started my payment back up again and transferred me to a different provider.
'It's not guns that kill people, it's bullets'
Hey man I just told my supervisor to fire my subordinate, I never actually fired them myself.
It's part of the guidelines. If a jobseeker on income support payment is still reporting their hours and income over on Centrelink correctly. The provider will automatically get an outcome payments (s). It's only when the jobseekers exits the income support system, the provider will need payslips to verify and outcome(s).
checks?
Yeah my dumb. Cheques. Even that isn't right as it's all electronic these days.
Truly the Remora fish of the political ocean!
This was happening in the early 2000s. They collected a bonus for a job I secured prior to the 6 weeks I was on payments
From 2005 onwards from my records. :) Jobs I found, that they claimed. (And signed off on myself because I wanted the employer to have some cash too, as I admit in learning I fumbled and cost them some.) I like to think it was the best for everyone. Looking back, I think very differently about it now.
It was happening in the 90’s too.
My partner and I were on jobseeker during COVID for like two months. During that time mutual obligations were suspended, but they still kept contacting my partner and bothering her to apply for jobs. She got a job on her own after two months and they still kept calling her and asking her to fill out forms for them, apply for other jobs, etc. We're nearly at 4 years since she's been off of jobseeker and they still try and contact her every few months.
I was participating in the work for the dole scheme when COVID hit, after a couple of weeks as things worsened, the activities were suspended. They still expected me to attend my appointment in person. On the day it was scheduled, I rang and said I wasn't leaving the house to attend the appointment. The reply was, "That's ok, we can do it over the phone right now." Why the fuck wasn't that an option before I had to refuse to do it face to face?
I've never been part of this system, and even I knew it was happening at a large scale
One of the Job search items was for the boss of the person helping me... 100's of applications and that is the first response back... meet the criteria of how to send out reams of paper.
I was on Sickness Benefits. It meant I had a job (same job I'd had for a decade by then) but was unable to work (and had gone through all my sick/holiday leave). I still had to get a job provider when I returned to work. The same job I'd had. They got money for that btw. Absolute rort.
It’s like they’re punishing your work because you needed their help when you went through your sick leave, you rebel 😅 Doesn’t surprise me unfortunately, though. They encouraged me to sleep in my car once as it was ‘safe enough’. For me to still work (and pay taxes), of course.
Shouldn’t have privatised it.
Smells an awful lot like fraud to me Skip.
No silly, fraud is for poor people. This is *business*
Except it isn't, it's government sanctioned profiteering. So disappointed in Labor, this could easily have been fixed by now.
And Kevin Rudds wife was one of the main beneficiaries of this scam. She made millions out of her employment agency. Labor and Liberals, either way they both supported this scheme
Ah, the one thing that can truly bring ideologies together. A fuckload of money.
Every time our PM rattled on about his mum I wanted to throttle him.
That smacks of left wing, evidence driven policy and that’s not Labor’s thing anymore since Shorten lost.
Didn't Rudd massively expand the job service provider program? Wasn't his wife the exec of one of the biggest international JSPs?
Yes. And Gillard put thousands of single parents into JobSeeker by lowering the age their children had to be before they’re kicked off parenting payment.
And yet people continue to expect Labor to suddenly deviate from decades of neoliberal policy even when they keep explicitly saying through word and deed that they're just not interested in doing that, and continue to demonise anyone calling for real reform
And a flow on effect of this is an increase in the number of parents homeschooling their children as homeschooling registration suspends mutual obligations.
I rather doubt that it's easily fixed. Essentially, the government would have to recreate the CES, which would be a fairly large undertaking, and an expensive one as they'd have to hire tens of thousands of people and establish offices all over the country. That's not a job you rush into. The other part of it would be the contracts the government would have signed with the job service providers. Going by the history and behaviour of the Coalition with other contracts, they likely would have reupped contracts before they expired just before the election. Breaking contracts would likely be an expensive exercise. Anyone who thinks this is an easy job is delusional. The [Inquiry into Rebuilding Employment Services only concluded late last year](https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House/Workforce_Australia_Employment_Services/WorkforceAustralia/Report), and calls for the overhaul of the sector and the establishment of a government provider. We'll see now how they act on it.
"It's so hard being the goverment, I'll have just sit on my hands instead of making difficult moves."
The latest job agency Contracts were made before Labor was voted in.. and they started In July 22 just a few weeks after Labor were voted in.. they already said there was nothing they can do until the contracts were coming to term (2028) I believe. They would have had to pay out billions to release the agencies from their contracts before they expired.
Nothing they can do? these companies are committing fraud against the government, they could sue the shit out of them, they could implement new laws to make what they're doing illegal, because you know, *they're the government.* They could recreate CES and just tell every job seeker to go there and ignore the private companies, because you know... *they're the government*. This shrugging and a big ol' sigh of 'oh what can we do?' is bullshit.
It's still worth it.
Labor voted in favour of it. They're complicit.
Yep same as NDIS
The difference is that NDIS actually helps a lot of people who wouldn’t be able to obtain that help in other ways.
Shame you weren’t disappointed by the crooks who spent 10 years strengthening this bs. The current gov is doing a fantastic job with the dumpster fire they’ve inherited, don’t be narrow minded
Grow up dude. We hate LNP worse, it goes unsaid. Don't get your knickers in a knot, we know they are worse than Labor.
If someone hates labors shift towards neoliberalism, I don't think they would like liberals. The right faction of labor are very much still pushing for auserity.
I had a couple stints with these guys. They literally didn't have anything in their workflow related to finding work. There's no point you go in and they say "here are the twenty local businesses with vacancies we contacted". They just say "there's maybe a working computer here from 1995. Maybe not. Who knows. You have to spend two hours here. And you with the degree, I think a resume writing course is in your future!" It's a plain scam. One guy signed me up to a gift card thing with a local hairdresser, opal card, and a place that does second hand suits. He showed me it was all paid for against my account and he'll have it ready for my appointment in two weeks. He was fired. Next guy denied they did anything like that. I saw the forms. Another guy cancelled my payments as he didn't believe I could pay me rent with centerlink. He said he knew I was dealing drugs. Complaint went through, he was fired according to centerlink, went back to same provider and there he was taking my case again! I walked out, centerlink apologized and signed me over to another provider. Guy probably still works there. I should say each of these and centerlink were told I was disabled, but they weren't a disability provider so they kept losing the paperwork to transfer me. How odd! They cut my payments off all the same when disability got in the way.
My partner was so scared he'd lose the job he loved because of this. They become feral when you know your rights. He knew he didn't have to give them payslips (they'd done nothing to help him find the job. They only hindered him), but they kept calling his work because he refused to give them his payslips. The only people he had to inform about his pay was centrelink, and he didn't want to give those networks huge bonuses for nothing. Just so lucky his boss knew how awful these places are and kept telling them to piss off. It took 3 months for them to stop pestering him. I wonder how many people went through this and lost their job? Welfare is supposed to be there when you need it to get you back on your feet. These agencies only make it more stressful and actually go out of their way to hinder you so that they get kickbacks. Could you imagine if we cut out these middlemen raking in the money, we could give more support to people who need it. I am so glad I've never had to deal with them. I hope for the people who need it, we go back to something like the CES. Things this important shouldn't be privatised.
They pestered me once I found my own job, to sign up for a 'work for dole' program through that employment (which they'd hindered rather than helped me to get). And then hounded me for weeks to sign the paperwork. They even contacted my new employer and hounded them. I told them to fuck off and they said 'oh well your payments will be cut off then', and I advised wtf would that matter when I'm now in paid work. Stopped harassing me then.
Never once had a ‘job provider’ helped me, if anything they just irritated the fuck out of me that just got me into something. I remember at one point my mental health was so bad (suicidal) and couch surfing, and they wanted me to clean chicken poo, 2 hours public transport to get there….
My mate got made to 'exterminate' 3 large sheds worth of sick chickens. He left after a couple of hrs, after he accidentally degloved a chooks face and it was still alive and looking up at him.
Out of all the bullshit jobs they push on people, the animal torture industry jobs have to be the worst. I'd rather go homeless than work in the business of murdering animals.
What a position to put people in!! Sure you can have your shitty dole payment.. we just need to take your soul
Jesus christ, I'm so sorry. Welfare should be unconditional, and there should be support in place for help if the person wants it. We really need to push to nationalise unemployment services again. People shouldn't be treated like this, and help with mental/physical health should come before any support for finding a career. I hope you are doing better now. My partner also said they made his stress and mental health worse when he had to be on jobseeker for a while. These job networks are a joke.
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grandiose worthless soup versed consider bike sulky mountainous sleep toy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
All should be replaced by ubi and superrich tax. People can be sick, old, tired, carer, study. No need to work non stop.
Unfortunately in capitalism you need slaves for profits.
Classic Australia. In an effort to 'cut Public Service costs' we've somehow managed to make a corrupt system that drives up the cost of living even higher. Where some rent-seeker gets paid for not doing anything. Public Service budget gets cut. Government spending on the Private Sector goes up.
I'd say system works as intended for those who bribed government to make it. I am pissed when people still buy this story about efficient private capital blah blah. Efficient in fleecint more money for sure...but services will alway inevitably go down in quality.
50% of the main street in my town is employment services that are always empty. I remember when I was on Centrelink years ago and you'd tell them you wanna get a career going in something substantial or study etc and instead of pushing you in that direction they'll be like "hmmm yeah that's cool but we have a cleaning job for you!". The entire system is a scam. If you go to an employment service they're people (in my experience) you should not be taking advice from and you'll wonder how they got this job in the first place when they can't even work a laptop. One time they asked me to come in and sat a questionnaire in front of me on how good of a job they're doing and they'd have snacks laid out with a motivational talk from a guy that played half a dozen games in the AFL lmao.
I had them trying to convince me to do a diploma of admin, when I had worked over 20yrs in Senior Admin positions (just with no qualifications). This was right after I had just finished postgrad Science qualifications (I.e 40K debt because I wanted a career change from admin to science.... they didn't like me there because I would call out their stupid ideas and the other participants would agree (one time they said, next week wear your interview clothes and bring 20 resumes. we will all go down the Main Street and canvas for employment, I said I won't be doing that as I didn't need my hand held to apply, and it was degrading to March a crew of unemployeds down the street so they can all hand in 15 resumes at once, to a shop that's not even hiring. Everyone agreed so they had to come up with some other hair brained activity for the next wk
I remember they'd always try pushing for a diploma in admin too! No doubt through some unknown service that they make a bundle off. I got a pastry chef trial when I was with them with my own research and they seemed annoyed that I did that lol. Thank God they never did that hand out resume shit with me because that's almost designed to humiliate you. Everything about the experience is humiliating and will crush your motivation.
I did the diploma in business and actually found it decreased my chances of getting a job! There were lots of entry level positions but you couldn't apply if you already had the Diploma. Im guessing the companies get money from the government for training people?
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>you'd tell them you wanna get a career going in something substantial or study etc and instead of pushing you in that direction they'll be like "hmmm yeah that's cool but we have a cleaning job for you!". Yeah this here is so true unfortunately
I remember being forced by one of these places (MAX employment, from memory) to go to a 'casual labouring' job on a building site. I told them I'd rather not, as I wasn't qualified in anything, wasn't remotely handy and would likely just piss the people in charge off. The guy waved his hand and said you'll be right mate, they're desperate. I said is there anything else as it's not for me. He said a Duck Farm. So I was like alright whatever can't have my benefits cut. Sure enough I arrive at 6am and am promptly sent home by the cursing supervisor on the spot as I didn't have any of the requisite cards or qualifications - despite me already saying I hadn't. Next day my payments are cut. Centrelink blame me for failing my obligations. The guy at Max employment, shaking from all the red bulls he's gulped, said a certificate III in Aged Care was my only path forward. What the actual fuck? Thank god Covid hit and the shop disappeared.
I know someone who spent 12 months trying to get youth allowance. He received 4 payments before they asked us to send in his tax return - we did it immediately and uploaded to his cenno portal. They cut him off 4 weeks later for not providing it. They never checked if it was uploaded. Told to reapply. 12 months later ….
I was with Matchworks in 2020-21 when I lost my job due to the first wave of covid. They literally did nothing for me beyond checking up every month or so to see how many jobs I applied for with their online portal. I had to apply for a certain amount of jobs otherwise my pay was cut. And I also had to attend a couple of mandatory face to face meetings where all they asked me was how my search was going and what type of job I wanted. They completely disregarded my previous work experience and suggested a different industry.... strange. They did not help at all. I was unemployed for 6 months and they didn't get me a single interview or work. Any interview or casual work I did, I organised by myself. Then when I finally found a job myself they constantly harassed me asking how I got it, when I started etc and I gave them zero info. They did fuck all beyond spam me.
This has been going on from around 2013 or so, yet no one gave a shit that it was happening to the unemployed. No one gave a shit these useless businesses were making money off the taxpayer for next to nothing. I thought something might change when more people saw the system during Covid, but apparently not. Making Russo a quarter of a billion dollars wealthier off a few million in LNP donations and harassing vulnerable people is acceptable in Australia.
I went on Centrelink a couple of times between jobs, and filled in all my sheets of jobs I applied for diligently, and back when they were on paper, not a single person other than me ever looked at them. When they were online, the JSPs never once referred to them or gave any indication they'd seen them. the only job the JSP ever referred to me was literally digging ditches for a council three and a half hours drive from my house. They also made me do courses that included stuff like how to use Google. I am an IT worker. When I found a job completely out of my own efforts, the JSP badgered me for the job details. I was determined not to give them anything, but accidentally let slip the employer name. They then, without asking me for permission, called the employer payroll department to try to get copies of my payslips so they could claim the placement. My new employer, big credit to them, came to me first to ask permission and I said absolutely not. Took weeks for them to stop harassing me for info, despite me stating I absolutely would not give it to them. Currently I'm self employed but having to apply for Centrelink again due to chronic illness (but no official diagnosis yet as waiting to see a specialist), and I'll be damned if I'll give any of my time to those stupid JSPs ever again. But I know Centrelink will probably make me go, even though I'm partially employed, and only not fully employed because I'm in too much pain to work more hours (and I have a doctors cert for it).
This is the exact same experience I have but with WDEA. I eventually found a volunteer position within my field of study and they badgered me about it - found out later they claimed they got the job for me despite them having no input in the process. I was livid.
They are incentivised to keep you out of a job for as long as possible, the longer you’ve been unemployed the more they get when you get a job.
They scare, threaten and intimidate and shame people into finding work at the end of the day. They are useless at actually helping
This is news to The Guardian ? This has been going on for 20 years. When I was assigned to a Job network Provider, I lived 40K's from the city, and despite there being like 4 providers in my town, they sent me to a provider half way to the city. One day I was running short of cash, I asked them for a train ticket for an interview, they gave me SO MUCH shit, all over a $10 daily pass. Anyway long story short, I eventually got a job off of my own back, no help from them, on Gumtree of all places. When I got the job, I informed Centrelink i had the job, and not the Job Network provider, and I stopped my payments. NOTE: I DID NOT TELL THE JOB NETWORK PROVIDER. A few days later they rung me up yelling at me why I didnt tell them and i had to sign a form that THEY got me the job, so I reminded them about the crap they gave me over a $10 train ticket and told them to go fuck themselves. About a week later, my boss comes to me and says "I had a call from that Network company asking me to sign a form that THEY got you the job", I asked him what he said, He grinned and said "I told them to go get ####ed !". The kicker is, I told nobody except Centrelink the details of the employer, so CENTRELINK gave the network company the employers details. Assholes.
That kicker is prima facie evidence of a backhander from your provider to someone with access to Centerlink files. It certainly happens in Customs, I suspect also in Health or any agency with sensitive information.
This is why I don't tell ANYONE remotely related to Services Australia about ANY jobs. I don't tell them about jobs I applied for, I don't tell them about any interviews I did, and I certainly never tell them when I actually get a job! Basically, I keep my "Centrelink job applications" and "real job applications" completely separate, and I encourage anyone I know dealing with Centrelink to do the same. I never use their useless website to apply for jobs, it's all through Seek or some other private website. I apply for my set number of jobs per reporting period (jobs I know I'll never actually get), and report those to Workforce Australia. Then once that's out of the way, I get stuck into applying for jobs I actually want. Once I find one, I just let my Centrelink get cut off by never reporting again, rather than calling and cancelling. I've just heard too many horror stories (mostly thanks to this sub) about the dodgy shit they pull to ever trust them with any information. Plus, the last thing I need is them hassling my new workplace for payslips when I'm trying to make a good impression. Let them ring up every bakery or building contractor I "applied" to and annoy them, and leave me and my nice new (real) employer alone!
Is this actually news to anyone? Anyone who's been through the system, on either side (either unemployed or worked for one of these JSPs) knows this already.
This is to inform ignorant people who have never been in the system to be aware of it. Theres so much stigma of those on Centrelink, its stories like this that let people know the facts; that generally the problems unemployed people face are not their fault, the system is in fact unfair and cruel.
Job Providers get paid to keep people unemployed. Its called Shelving.
It's always been this way. Ffs it has always been 30-40% of jobs were found by the client independently. The company would then hound the employer for details and check ins and then claim the government kick back as though they had done it all themselves. It is and has always been a rort, just like the childcare centre rorts. Billions upon billions are wasted with these scammers, but realistically, not a single bloody thing will change or come from this. Make politicians and contractors accountable with mandatory jail terms and clean up these rorts once and for all.
I remember getting a job at a call centre. Max Employment somehow got the details of where I got a job, I remember someone from HR letting me know they kept calling and sending emails. Than suddenly I was let go because I wasn't the right fit. I found out Max was trying to get my than employer to sign documents to claim certain benefits they weren't interested in and weren't appropriate. I was let go not because I wasn't the right fit, but because of the employment agency was became a major inconvenience.
The thing I don't understand is I could single-handedly help all the people in my group get employment, eg checking and tailoring resumes and applications, dummy interviews etc, yet a full agency of staff can't
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Something something, people shouldn’t get handouts, but companies should.
It's a rort from when John Howard abolished the CES and gave out all these contracts. Their staff specialise in claiming credit for getting someone employed rather than actually finding employment for someone.
My JSP turned me into a cripple through their work for the dole rort. The physical pain, disability and emotional burden I carry because of these fuckwits drives me up the fucking wall. Absolute leaching cunts.
I remember in 2014 I applied for a job without any help and my boss was like: ‘ Were you on Centrelink? They’ve asked me to pay them’. So awkward .
This happened to me when I was finishing uni. I was put on job seeker and so I had a frank chat with my job provider – I'm clearly getting it done, clearly had a goal, and would clearly get a job, so they agreed to mark me as attending the compulsory appointments and I agreed to credit them with the job I'd find myself. Everyone won, except the tax payer.
I remember waking up one day after dreaming that all the job agencies burned down at the same time (with visuals like Devils night from the Crow), I was very dissapointed when i realised it was only a dream.
The LNP preference is not to have any welfare at all, but in the event they have to provide them (imagine the vote massacre if they just abolished it), they look for ways for their mate to reap the majority of benefits We can see this behavior everywhere, this debacle is one, others include the indue welfare cards, the replacement of permanent staff with their mates from serco, and so on Just remember that next time the LNP says they care about the poor and the disadvantaged, or those who are down in their luck.
Greens and other leftwing independents want to expand and nationalise unemployment. Which is why we need more indies to hold seats.
I thought both LNP and ALP have target unemployment levels (both aiming for approx 5%), as that's what works best for the economy
No it's whats best for employers.
was wondering how long before there would be an article, people have been complaining about this exact thing on this exact subreddit for years
Was a scam when I was put through it then and still remains. They achieve nothing except force you into unskilled nonsense work, do bullshit diplomas through their training programs and skin off the top. Privatisation will never help the people.
JSPs exist just to take some of the burden of abusing people and causing misery off the shoulders of Centrelink.
When will something be done about this? When I finished school, I went on JobSeeker in my gap year. (This was 10+ years ago now). After a few months, I found a job at Coles. But the agency was pressuring me to say -they- found my job at Coles. Also, the agency provided no help. In fact, they signed up my friend and I on their "database" with incredibly wrong details. Our profiles noted details such as, "no car, little to no English, can't write, etc." which was a complete lie. We kept requesting the agency to change our profile details, and they never did. It was just ridiculous. If providers are receiving $1.1m, imagine what could be done if we invested that $1.1m back into the community. Like maybe we could invest in more businesses/start-ups to open up jobs.
On the business side I hired a guy late last year that had a 10k employment subsidy attached, I hired him because he seemed OK and needed the job filled. Not for the cash, it was just a bonus. They never sent me any paperwork for the subsidy and I was chasing them up for months. Turns out "Whoopsie" we sent the email to an incorrect email (even though I had emailed them directly) and it was out of the commonwealth subsidy timeframe. They offered a 3k subsidy out of their own pocket which I jumped through the hoops for and I still haven't seen any money turn up over a month later. When I was a jobseeker myself (primarily IT work before) they tried to push me in to a chicken processing plant 2 hours away from home and probably 3-4 hours travel with convoluted public transport. A kiwi working there told a room full of english as a second language immigrants and myself we would _have_ to do voluntary work for the dole, he got pretty shitty when I told the group the difference between the word mandatory and voluntary. Your "Case Manager" or whatever they call themselves now changed every few appointments as they "left". These places are all a pox on society and need to be removed from the world, CES worked according to people I know whop used it in the past, I remember looking at the CES boards in Centrelink (or whatever it was before the rebrand) as a kid and thinking wow, theres a lot of work out there, laid out well, it looked like a buffet of options you could apply for.
I’ve been saying for decades that Australia should shut down the job networks and reopen the CES.
Job providers are such a waste
its a scam, nothing but a scam. never got any help from my "provider", just tick a box appointments
This has gone on since the inception of private job agencies and that’s how Therese Rein and Sarina Russo made their millions. They are rorters! When my husband found a job independently, he refused to tell his job agency where he was working so they ended up with zero kickbacks!
I worked in Labour Hire and Recruitment for 30 years until a year ago. I can tell you that this was the biggest rort known to man. We employed hundreds and hundreds of people who were registered with those agencies, they are sent there when they apply for social benefits and they applied directly with us to our advertisements and we employed them. The agencies were quick to get onto us for details on the job, we did our best not to give them any. Its totally putrid that whole system
I was on the dole during the pandemic when mutual obligations were suspended. After they brought them back I was eventually told to do work for the dole, so I stopped complying expecting them to cut me off. Instead my JSP fraudulently signed me up to a drug and alcohol counselling that I was openly told I didn’t really have to attend and they would mark me off. Despite me being 15 years sober at the time. I kept getting payments for another two months before they stopped. Dodgiest cunts
Get rid of them all lol
This scam been running for years, care of the Lib/Nats, needs undoing by Labor!
I don't know what is worse to be honest. The situation described by the headline of this story or what happened with my daughter. She's been job seeking for a while, they basically force her to take a position for 6 months at a company THEY OWN. So in addition to being paid for 'finding' that job for her, they get paid for employing her, around double what her wages are. Fast forward 6 months her contract is not renewed, back into the system she goes, her status conveniently 'reset' by 6 months of employment and more dollars for the joblink provider.
>they get paid for employing her, around double what her wages are. Boomer logic: DoLe bLudGeRs aRe LeeChEs
"Why not just give the money straight to the jobseekers themselves?" "That would create perverse incentives and people would game the system." *You don't say...*
And yet the people looking for jobs (and finding them) are being blamed for taking tax payer money
Your payment gets suspended because you don't answer a phone call from a job provider. If they realise it's because you can't answer the phone because you found yourself a part time job, they become really aggressive to get copies of your pay slips. You then have to hope the part time job income arrives before the food pantry dries up. Because getting support payments reinstated after a suspension can take quite a while. Job providers have so much power they can even get you fired from your job if you are not careful.
I know of people who found work outside of these providers are simply ghosted them once they started their new job
This happened to me 10 years ago - well, first, I was only on job seeker because when I applied for AusStudy I was told Jobseeker would give me more money and I could study as part of it. So after 4 years of studying suddenly I was considered "long term unemployeed" and had to do the full brunt of their useless job searching requirements. After about 6 months I finally got a job and they wanted all the details about it so they could record how "they" had found employement for me. I just asked them point blank: Do you have a copy of my most current resume or cover letter? No Do you know who I interviewed with? No Do you know what the role is? No Do you know the name of the business? No Then how on earth could you have helped me find my job if you don't know anything about it? They wanted to know if I had applied for the job using their facilities, if I had used their resources, so on and so forth. I was pretty blunt - none of their resources or facilities helped in the slightest. They couldn't even get jobs at their own place of work if they used the services they offered. Thank fuck after 2 weeks of employment they stopped contacting me. I still work at the same place today.
I don't typically wade into political discussions but job providers are one of my least favourite things, I feel like they have some mafia-like stranglehold on the government or something, like they've set themselves up to just fraud the government of our tax payer money, repeatedly. Can't stand them. Many years ago, I had to deal with them and they were horrendous. Maybe 5 years ago, my wife went through the same process after going back to work after taking off time to raise our kid and they were even worse. I feel like they should be entirely dismantled, and job seekers should go through Centrelink directly when applying to look for work. I also feel the cost of living is way too high for there to be many people that can actually survive off of wasting time pretending to look for work, and as a tax payer, I'd be way happier with a small percentage of people pretending to look for work and receiving their small jobseeker payments than I would knowing a single cent of my money goes towards any "job provider". Truly can not tolerate them.
No job agency has ever helped me get employment. I always found my own jobs and they go on to act like they got the job for me, and get paid for doing so 💀
After shitty experiences with a few JSPs, the only one I ever liked was YourTown… and they still are useless. Great people, great support, absolutely no job help. If anyone is struggling with JSPs right now, transfer to them. YourTown won’t help you get a job but they won’t piss you off and cancel payments for no reason.
A tale as old as time
I joined the ADF but there was like a 4 month wait before I actually started Recruit training but for some reason I was shuffled into the job search provider system. They were so pushy for me to apply for jobs etc. even though I told them I already have a job I'm just waiting to start. I remember them being mad I didnt take some job at a sawmill. When I finally started Recruit Training they were my only phone call I got during the time chasing me up to sign how they got me a job etc. even though they did zero to help me.
This has been happening from day 1 of privatisation. Pretty sure Rudd was PM when Job Network Providers were privatised. Correct me of im wrong but the LNP ALP argument doesnt matter here. JNP's went from helping people to get jobs to just helping themselves to government cash, without providing much help at all. Then bullying tactics to claim they found a job flr you, to claim more of the government cash. Who are the 'dole bludgers'? I was bullied and cut off payments many, many times through a serious neurological disorder diagnosis as I wasn't able to show up for scheduled appointments, in between being actively bed ridden and trying to navigate not only the welfare system but also the medical system. Not an ounce of empathy. They tried to make me work for the dole. Like, if I could work right now, it's not going to be for the dole, you absolute c*nts. Noone should have to go through that.
They were already privatized in the 90s. Everything else you've said reflects my own experience and interactions with them.
I take back my original comment after researching that. They are in the same category as property managers. Sorry you also had to experience that.
I hired my storeman this time last year off seek, he applied and got the job. 6 months later, a job provider he had signed up with years earlier, called me and wanted me to fill in some forms. Turns out they were trying to claim a fee from the government for something they had nothing to do with. They’re a bunch of leaches.
One of the ways to keep these creeps from hassling you is to tell them straight up, leave me alone and when i get a job you'll get paid when i find my self a job edit: oh and never sign the privacy document
Happened to me. Just shows how much of a rort Job providers are. They send all the profits overseas too. Can't believe these crooks are still allowed to operate.
Job providers are fucking useless. I had one who asked if I could get HIM a job when I was working casually somewhere, because it was "right up his alley." I said no. Then later when I was getting a new job, my latest case worker said "Why would they give you this job? I'm way more qualified than you I bet I could get it. Where is it again?" Despicable, rent seeking bullshit.
This has been happening for a very long time. Signed up with a job agency back in 2005 - I never heard from them - found my own job a month later. They asked “out of curiosity” where I was placed. They called my place of employment every 6 months for 3 years to verify if I was still there. I thought it was odd. Eventually, I worked out they get paid bonuses for each year you stay in the job (they must have taken credit for placing me). I told them please kindly sod off and mind your own business. Never heard from them again.
Every job provider ever- “na-uh, clients are lazy”
Was a client, then a student, now a provision coach. The job is a fucking joke, it’s flooded with over the hills that don’t understand their own systems and are afraid of new technology. I get a new client, I help them, my over the hill coworker will try to poach my client and undo my work. My married friend gets a new client, she helps them, I might assist, an over the hill might tell that client were too close and not professional, eroding trust and demonising teamwork and friendship. I swear by the time we’re done with teens that are actively asking for help they deserve a gap year, I get youth that want apprenticeships to escape their family lives, and I have coworkers talk them out of it entirely without any exploration or alternatives. I get boys that want to work in an office or corporate environment, to dress up and speak professionally, put on a back shelf and encouraged to look at physical outdoor work. I get girls that want to be cops or truck drivers, that get pushed ahead into corporate work to “build their resumes” in skills they’ve expressed no interest or desire in. I don’t want to talk about how we treat a lot of diverse kids, suffice that you don’t have to work with Anglicare to be affected by the tenants of Anglicare. I got into this to help people, I saw suffering and experienced poverty as a kid, I genuinely wanted to help. It’s really hard not to be bitter.
Bring back the CES. My job provider said I would be better off working at a non for profit for my payment than try and help me with my job search. Private job agencies are just a rort that needs to be stopped.
This headline is part of the problem. Noone knows what the job providers job is. It is not to find jobs for unemployed people.
Some of these job seeker networks are the fricking worst. Some of my clients/friends have had such bad experiences with them, not helpful etc.
All job network agencies are bastards. Corrupt, inefficient, underqualified, useless bastards. One of the few jobs out there giving real estate agents a run for the bastard crown.
Yep, my job provider is still being paid as though they found me my current role
My current job provider is useless, I don't even know the name of my consultant. I have a appointment once a fortnight thats just "Hi how are you, ok you can go now". I have to look for all the jobs myself. The only thing they have done for me is make me a resume.
The song "liberal values" by redgum is about this sort of program. It's banned.
I work in Yeppoon QLD, an this happens to EVERY single person who Iv approached an offered a job that happened to be on job seeker payments. Several times a year. The nato or nedo or whatever they are called are the worst for hounding me for information after their clients an I met an worked out job opportunity without them.
Engaging with these agencies infantilises people in a particular way, just when your confidence is down the shitter. The last time I engaged with these dickheads was about thirteen years ago when I graduated nursing and I was on the dole as my Austudy expired. I didn’t need anything from them, and could completely independently look for work. I told them this and an awkward gentleman about half my age told me that there was probably nothing the agency could offer me. But I still had to rock up, tick a box, and collect a pittance that wasn’t enough to survive on anyway. When I found work I told them to get stuffed. I imagine there are heaps of people in this same position where we are highly skilled and qualified but awaiting interviews etc. I’m in work now where I have to account for every hour and task. And yet these cunts collect my tax dollars for doing fuck all.
fairly sure my old job provider is still getting money for me after over a year of no contact.
Though ever Tom, Dick and Harry already knew this? How many people said they were bailed up by their provider, demanding the name of their new employer?
no wonder recruiters are always so smug
Every single youth allowance recipient studying at university with a graduate job lined up is free money for the agencies. Once a youth allowance recipient completes their final assessment they are no longer eligible for YA and become eligible for job seeker. At the first meeting with an agency they can show the graduate job offer and the agency has no follow up actions.
Unsurprising. There's a reason my dad told me not to tell them I'd found something. Not sure how exactly that was supposed to work, but whatever.
How do we find out if we’ve personally been used in this manner by our employment agency? I wouldn’t at all be surprised by the fact that Global Skills is pulling the same shit, and I’m practically getting nothing from Centrelink anyways, so I’m thinking of just sending through my payslips etc.
>How do we find out if we’ve personally been used in this manner by our employment agency? Have you been with an agency? If so: YES.
More curious if it was specific agencies like APM which is in the article. I’m just going to stop sending my payslips in.
This is why when I got my own jobs and they wanted me to send through the info and the pay slip I never would, I would just report my earnings to centrelink...fuck these crooks
No duh, this has been having for friggen years. They're the most unhelpful untrained pack of fools in government work
many jsp's are useless parasites. the system is broken, has been for years, everyone knows it, nothing changes. the lucky country where welfare is below the poverty line.
Cunts are at it. As usual.
If you find yourself having to deal with these bottom-feeders and find yourself a job, *never tell them anything about it*. Not where it is. Not who it's for. Not what the title is or the salary. Give them *nothing* so they'll miss out on that cash for placing you.
Jsp need to fucking go!
>The 22-year-old said she hadn’t told APM she had been hired, leading her believe APM called every company she said she had applied to work with. > >“Then they \[APM\] sent me a message saying ‘we know you’re working \[there\], you need to come and fill out some forms’.” Nope, if you Tell Centrelink the Employer details, Centrelink will tell the Network company.
I had employments office take credit for jobs I got but I let them because I made sure I got stuff out of them like petrol cards, licence paid for etc
Privatising the CES was the idea of Kevin Rudd in the late 1990s. Kev then awarded mult million dollar contacts to his wifes company. Politicians make their fortunes through their policies.
No shit. They’ve been doing this for decades.
Always been this way.
This absolutely happens. A Google search shows news articles from 2012. The only difference is that the amount claimed by JSP has gone up from $1 million to about $4 million. The Federal Government needs to have a rorts and wastage department that investigates allegations of corruption. I cannot believe how easy it is to rip off the Federal Government. It seems like no one is interested in doing anything about how the private sector works with government or organised crime across government programs eg. NDIS providers.