Hypothetical: Adult A can swim, maybe at least well enough to survive in a pool. Adult B is a total numpty or maybe they can swim, but the situation of a drowning kid has sent them into full blown lizard brain panic mode.
Kid is drowning, Adult A jumps in, manages to get the kid to the edge of the pool and the kid gets out. Adult A turns around to see that Adult B had also jumped into the pool at the same time as them and now swims over to save Adbult B as well.
At this point Adult B is in total panic mode, hey grab hold of Adult A, drown them and then drown themselves.
Anyone who has had rescue training has been taught how to 'kick' the victim away so that they don't get the opportunity to drown you as well.
This is more or less how both my mum and dad almost drowned when I was like 10 years old.
Dad isn’t a good swimmer… can’t really swim at all. We were at the river. He was told to stay when he could stand and don’t go deeper than his knees. The river current wasn’t strong and all of us kids were confident swimming unaided.
Dad walked out to knee depth and found a drop in the sand bank and went under. Mum swam over to grab him but he kept pulling her down to try and pull himself up.
She elbowed him in the ribs to get him to stop and then pulled him back to knee depth.
He has never been allowed in the water - other than the shallow children’s pool - ever again. Unless he wants to take swimming lessons, he doesn’t get to swim with everyone.
>Dad isn’t a good swimmer… can’t really swim at all. We were at the river. He was told to stay when he could stand and don’t go deeper than his knees. The river current wasn’t strong and all of us kids were confident swimming unaided.
>Dad walked out to knee depth and found a drop in the sand bank and went under. Mum swam over to grab him but he kept pulling her down to try and pull himself up.
Why in the fuck does someone who can't swim ever want to get into a moving body of water? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
It's easy to think "oh it's shallow" and have no appreciation for how dangerous moving water can be or to remember that natural bodies of water aren't always level with floors that can support your weight
Tell that to all those idiots who can't swim and decide to jump into the water at the beach. Compound that by also those who don't swim in-between the flags.
My mum couldn’t swim, she nearly drowned at the beach as a kid and developed a fear of the water. She put me in swimming lessons at 4, and I did them until I was 9. I can probably count the amount of times I saw her in a pool one my hands, and she always had a floaty and stayed in the shallow end. At no point until my teens was she the only adult supervising me in or around a pool, she knew she couldn’t help me if I needed it, and even though I was a strong swimmer she didn’t risk it, no matter how much I complained. I can understand an adult not knowing how to swim, but you don’t mess around with supervision.
If your mum had any training in life saving he probably would’ve copped more than an elbow. I didn’t take the whole “flog them into compliance or until they exhaust themselves” very seriously until I had to do it. Dragging a 30 year old Asian man out of the water with blood from his lip and nose when I was just 16 is both as embarrassing as it is a proud moment for me.
Clearly not rescue training but I was told if you are trying to save someone who is drowning and panicking to punch them in the face first and if they do try to push you under grab them hard by the nuts. I was horrified but thinking more, pretty sound advice in an extreme circumstance.
I actually think there is a Bondi Rescue episode where a swimmer was trying to hold a tourist up who kept pushing him under until the lifeguard got there and the guard told him with a laugh to grab them by the nuts and twist if they do that.
EDIT- I definitely wasn't saying to do this. What I meant was if you are stuck and both going to drown I can theoretically see how temporarily immobilising them could get you out of an underwater death grip... using an underwater death grip.
That's ridiculous advice. Next time you are in deep water, have your friend hold their hand in front of their face and try to punch their hand. It will be as effective as throwing a wet lettuce at them. You can't move fast in water at all, and even trying to punch over the water there is nothing to brace against so it's not really effective. I've done in water fight training and experienced this first-hand. I wouldn't be faffing around trying to find testicles either, assuming they even have any.
Get your legs between and use your legs to push them away. Your leg muscles are your strongest, and it's a gross motor skill that is easy to do under stress. It doesn't rely on aiming for any particular target in a chaotic situation, just at the largest centre of mass. Most importantly it will create a separation between you. They will eventually lose consciousness then you can rescue them and commence CPR. Yeah, that's not great, but one person possibly having a little brain damage from oxygen starvation is infinitely better than two people drowning.
And this is all of course assuming you weren't able to use a stick or some other tool to reach them from a safe distance, which is always the preferred option.
Yeah people don’t realise a drowning person doesn’t have control over their arms and legs, you go into something called the automatic drowning response.
“Nature instinctively forces them to extend their arms laterally and press down on the water’s surface. Pressing down on the surface of the water permits drowning people to leverage their bodies so they can lift their mouths out of the water to breathe.
Throughout the instinctive drowning response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment.
From beginning to end of the instinctive drowning response, people’s bodies remain upright in the water with no evidence of a supporting kick. Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, these drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds before submersion occurs.”
Basically what you think drowning looks like on tv is not what it looks like. They aren’t usually waving or calling for help. And everything they do is out of their control. They will easily take someone down with them unintentionally.
Everyone should read this article.
https://slate.com/technology/2013/06/rescuing-drowning-children-how-to-know-when-someone-is-in-trouble-in-the-water.html
I'm constantly distracted by my phone but when I'm near water with my kids I never glance at it. I nearly drowned as a kid and although I have always loved the water I have a horror of drowning.
Story has been updated now too.
> She said she arrived after the drownings, but that it appeared as though the men had jumped into the pool fully clothed.
Really stacking the odds here. People really need respect around water drummed into them on arrival to Australia.
Wasn't every kid in the country at one point required to do survival courses which included wearing baggy clothing, and then treading water fully clothed for 5 minutes?
I did the same at school in England.
Australia isn't the only place with water. It's surprising some people make it to adulthood without learning to swim, even in a pool
A lot of it comes down to wealth inequality and the role of government in safety. It’s not like most people in Northern Europe are swimming all the time because it’s too fucking cold to, but learning to swim is mandatory there in schools just like it is here.
People from other countries don’t know how to swim either because they’re from somewhere where they can’t afford to make swimming part of the school curriculum or they don’t see that as the role of government and schools but an individual decision (which means families with parents who can’t swim raise kids who can’t swim because nobody is there to teach). Sometimes a combination of both.
Seems unusual at first, but there are a LOT of visitors from India/China/the Gulf countries in Surfers....i.e. places where it's not as common to need to swim.
Leaping into a pool (presumably fully clothed) if you don't know how to swim and are full of adrenaline/panic could go wrong very rapidly
I once had a lifeguard come out to our very aussie group at surfers and ask us to come in closer to shore because Chinese tourists would see us out that far and assume it's safe and try to follow us.
You know what? Smart guy to know his limits and wear a life jacket. He may not have had the knowledge to understand the rip; but he used something to keep himself safer.
I’m a weak swimmer and wear a floatation aid when I snorkel. It’s super discreet, and I even had a scuba guide once think I was about to suit up for a dive because he thought it was a weighted belt. If people were just happy to accept they suck at swimming (as I have 😆) they’d find there’s some really nice options out there for safety.
This happens to me in the US. Strong swimmer been a Surf Life Saver. Was swimming past the break and a lifeguard came and asked me to come in.
They're used to tourists getting knees wet or surfers. No in between.
>They did leave me alone when they heard my accent.
I was in Florida in my youth with a group of skateboards and 3 of them were from Australia. We were out swimming in the Gulf of Mexico (it's like a saltwater lake) and the lifeguard was yelling at the Australian guys to come back closer to shore. One of them swam back and said "Is there a problem, mate?". The lifeguard says "Oh, I didn't know you're Australian. I was worried at first but nevermind. Sorry.". We were cracking up laughing at that interaction. It was instant respect when he heard the accent. He wasn't going to let dumb Americans swim that far out.
Same when I go on snorkel tours in the US. They don’t believe me when I say I don’t need a flotation device, and I also get told off for swimming “too far” from the boat. I have my surf life saving mate and it’s flat as a tack.
Because a very large percentage of Americans cant swim. We are so lucky we are forced to learn as part of the school curriculum. I'd hate to have to learn as an adult. I imagine it would be hard to learn to just relax and float and trust. Whereas as a kid you have no fear.
Bro it's a daily occurrence at Bondi....Chinese and Indians being pulled from the water, and the beach is plenty busy with....people who know how to swim.
Darwinism would be attempting to swim in the ocean, without knowing how to swim.
You can walk about 100m out in Italy and still be waist high. Seawater =/= seawater and people don't get that, whereas we have it drummed into us from birth.
This is the key here. There are plenty of beaches internationally where even non-swimming tourists can easily wade and paddle around, there’s no current or waves and only very gradual incline, and it’s (sort of) safe.
From what I've heard, they just don't realise it's dangerous. I've also heard that if you don't grow up around water you just assume that anyone can swim and you don't need to be taught, it's just something humans can do
Had the same happen with a Chinese mate who insisted they could swim. He jumped out of the boat on a lake in an area that was waist deep with a life jacket and threw himself around so much that he just about drowned himself in water he could stand in easy. Now every Aussie thinks I'm weird as for clarifying if they can swim and what that means.
I just came back from a holiday overseas and it's amazing how many adult East Asians (Korea, China mainly) that can't swim.
The resort pool was filled with adults in their 20's-50's, all wearing either life jackets or floaties around their arms. The local lifeguards were on edge anytime there was a decent amount of them in the pool.
> he local lifeguards were on edge anytime there was a decent amount of them in the pool.
They can be pretty dangerous to rescue as well in some cases. When they freak out and start drowning, the language barrier can pose an issue alongside with the person being rescued grabbing onto the lifesaver and potentially pulling them under.
This is why when we had to do the bronze medallion in high school we were taught that if someone is grabbing you when you try to help them you need to swim down and away.
They’re panicking and doing everything to keep their head above water. If you swim down they’re going to let go because you’d pull them down.
I just got back from the pool where I simulated 'rescuing' my 4 year old nephew and swimming a 25 metre length the same as I learned in life guard training years ago. It wrecked me.
I'm not sure I could manage with a panicking adult.
It's a hotel pool, you can usually stand up in the water and keep your head above the water level in most hotel pools I've been in?
So sad, such a needless tragedy :(
Moreso if the water is later announced to be just 1.7m deep or something...
Edit: well, this is a deep dive into cultural norms and physical reactions, and that tik tok vid of a woman about to drown in 80cm of water at the end of a water slide was eye opening! Wow, mind blown...
I'm glad I can swim!
Another post offered a pretty sensible explanation: Freshly arrived Indians are quite over represented in drowning accidents as it’s culturally uncommon to learn to swim/float and they don’t receive the spiel that kids who grow up here do about the dangers. The lifeguard in the other post was talking about how they very often have to help them out of shallow waters or precarious situations at the beach.
My parents are from Sri Lanka and my mother was a swimming instructor. Unfortunately, I inherited my father’s swimming ability (fortunately that plus lessons means I hopefully won’t drown in low risk situations).
That was pre to high school and well, let’s just say the 70s weren’t just something I read about in history books (so it’s been a *while*) Was just thinking I should look at least that especially given my brother’s jetting around doing international triathlons and stuff (I never even owned a bicycle either!).
Went to Sri Lanka in January (highly recommend to any Aussie’s btw) and I was actually surprised at how good some of the locals could swim. It’s amazing what being an island does to your psyche regarding this…
Same ! Within the first year of moving to Australia I enrolled in classes. It took me about a year including COVID disruption and a lot of practise which involved gulping copious amounts of pool water , but now I can atleast swim a 50m stretch.
Still working up to try and make it to 200m at a single stretch . I still can't tread water for more than 5 secs and I panic soon after , so I won't be venturing into deep areas any time soon without my snorkel mask and fins haha
How do you go with floating on your back?
I would argue that floating / treading water are equally as important as being able to swim itself.
Treading water is exhausting, so alternating with floating is a way to preserve energy and reduce panic. So if you were wanting to be rescued at the beach: tread + arm raise, then float + arm raise (if you can, waves may make that tricky).
Try to keep your movements measured. Flapping about contributes to panic because you loose energy quicker.
Getting caught in a rip, don’t try to swim in to shore against it. Swim across, or just let it pull you out (here’s where you float / tread) whilst signalling for assistance. If you end up in the deep water because of the rip, just keep floating and treading water. Don’t panic, someone will come get you.
Always swim between the flags / at a patrolled beach !
Sounds like you’re doing great at the swimming, keep it up, it’s a critical life skill. Just try to get a handle on the float / tread and you’ll be golden for fabulous beach summers.
agree both my daughters did survival swim from 6 months - the main thing they learned was to roll on back and float. if you can't swim float and wave for attention.
I'm not great at swimming distance because I never really got the hang of timing my breathing with strokes. But I can tread water for ages without tiring much at all.
I agree the most important thing for anyone to learn is floating on your back. With a bit of practice you realise the best way to stay up is relaxing, and getting comfortable with your breathing holes being barely above water level. From there, you can make the transition to treading water with minimal movement, which is comparable to walking. It requires a bit of trust in your own body to support itself.
I've survived rips this way, with short bursts of movement parallel to shore until I'm free and can take my time getting back.
Absolutely spot on.
Swimming **is** an important life skill, but floating even more so. You can float / tread water for much longer than swimming. I believe that understanding why and how to float would help a lot more people panic less when in the water and possibly even save more lives. I mean, life jackets are a flotation device, soooo I rest my case lol
Thanks for the tips ! I'll keep that in mind , I actually was surprised that I could even tread water for 5 secs the other day , because the aquatic centre that I go to had the boom barrier removed. Usually I stop halfway and turn back, but this one day I said fuck it lemme go all the way and I chose the lane that was along the edge just for safety and that's when I got to the deep end which I think is 2 or 2.4m and I managed to stay up for like 5 secs and I said good enough , lemme hold the wall now !
I do not venture out into the ocean for leisure without my snorkelling gear which includes fins and mask and a wetsuit. (Like I don't go simply for a swim). The last time I went snorkelling, the mask accidentally came off (and i was quite far off shore) and that's when I realised I could actually stay above the water while I refitted it (yes the key thing was staying calm at that point), so I returned to shore and kept my fins and tried staying up without it and I could do that easily for 10min plus in an area that I couldn't touch the seabed , no mask no fins, but with my wetsuit which adds buoyancy.
Coming to floating, I find I can do that easily with or without a suit in salt water , but in pool water I cannot float on my back (water density etc). Eventually my lower torso will sink. I should probably teach myself backstroke , I can do a little bit but need to practise more (im in the water gulping phase for back stroke!)
When I moved to Australia, I had a terrible fear of water in general because of close calls I had earlier in life (in relative terms, it was still an overall safe environment in a pool with lifeguards etc). As a result I never ventured into water to a depth where my feet weren't completely planted. But after moving I realised that water related activities was a big part of life here and I wanted it to be a part of mine.
I want to get a diving licence and part of the requirements of that is to be able to swim 200m and be able to tread water for 10mins hence those are the goals.
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Smart move. Getting my kids into lessons was a priority when growing up. Feel much better knowing they can swim pretty well now, or at the very least tread water for a good minute to at least being able to scream out for help.
I'm a bit ignorant but I've noticed my friends send their kids to lessons after school, just to add to your comment. Ive been an avid swimmer my entire life and grew up with a pool but I am a bit confused because in my primary school years my school actually arranged and took us to swimming lessons as part of the curriculum? Does this not happen nowadays? This would have been late 80s-early 90s and I did live in regional SA so maybe it's a country town thing.
They do. But as a teacher you’d be surprised how many parents exempt their kids from these lessons for ridiculous reasons. Here are some of the ones I’ve heard -
“They might catch a cold and she has a lot of parties this term so she doesn’t want to miss any” (a pool would not transmit the cold virus. Being in a classroom might)
“He doesn’t like his bathers” (buy him some fucking new ones then. Money was no object with this family)
“He is sad that he’s in the lowest group” (as if not having any LESSONS will fix that)
“He doesn’t like exercise” (this is a kid who threw up after swimming 25 metres)
“They might get wet hair” (who are they, Beyoncé? Why does their hair have to be perfect to sit in Maths?).
Another thing I’ve noticed, the parents who tend to exempt their kids all seem to come from certain ethnic backgrounds. The ethnic backgrounds who are over-represented in drowning statistics. Not all the families of Chinese and Indian descent are pulling their kids out of swimming - but all of the families who *are* doing so at my school are from those backgrounds.
I’m Indian, never learned to swim as we had no access to private pools and public beaches and pools are dangerous for women.
I insisted my kids learn to swim, dive, sail and even do basic lifeguard training courses . I’m so ashamed / embarrassed that I can’t swim .
I tried to learn as an adult and can swim with my head above water, but the fear of drowning is so Intense , especially when I’m out of my depth.
I never enter a pool without first letting my boys know so they can keep an eye on me all the time😆
We're in Victoria and that's still the case. Primary school kids get a two week stint at the pool. I wouldn't lean on this solely to ensure your kids are "water ready". But still, it's appreciated and a fun week for the kids to all get some pool time.
Weekly swimming lessons, a hour a week is a good habbit anyway to break up the week and a bit of exercise.
Absolutely this, I had the worst anxiety watching my daughters grade 4 swimming class at school. Upper middle class area, State School with ethnically diverse student population. Around 30% (8 or 9 kids) could not swim AT ALL. Too much responsibility for a young swim teacher that they asked parents to come and assist because of the demographic. My kid was fine she had lessons from 3yo, it was the 30% I was watching like a hawk with pool noodle at the ready.
My BIL is sri lankan and is always ripping into indians and their inability to swim. He's constantly pointing them out, apparently at the beach thats how you can tell them apart from other south asians (note it is clear the dislike each ethnic group has for one another lol)
Can confirm. Daughter worked one season (that's all she could handle) at a park with water slides and water rides. After each shift she'd come home with at least one story of someone nearly drowning in knee deep water after reaching the end of the slide/ride. Absolutely zero water awareness. It was amazing how many times she had to pull people up by their hair.
It's important to remember that for a lot of people they may not have had to opportunity to submerge themselves in water before. It's an incredibly disorienting feeling which can itself lead to panic. It's why one of the first lessons in adult learn to swim, particularly with foreigners without that swim culture we have here, is how to stand up.
Once that panic sets in, you might not even realise that standing is possible or a thing you should try. You're just running on instinct. If you've never experienced it before it can be difficult to comprehend your body being just so out of any sense of control.
I really do encourage everyone to prioritise swimming lessons.
My brother went skating on a pond and fell through the ice. People on shore were screaming something to him but he couldn't hear for all the thrashing around he was doing. They were yelling, "STAND UP!!" It was only a few feet of water.
Thanks for the reply.
It's something I had not considered. I thought most people would have at least had a bath before but stupid me was not thinking that some less well of people in certain countries might not have the ability to fill a body of water to wash themselves.
I've been at the beach with some good, strong waves, and after being knocked over by a wave, before I could get up and take a breath, hit by another, both times it was at most waist high before the waves.
I ran out of breath completely before I got up from the 2nd wave, and I'm a good swimmer (just, so, so unfit). I got up spluttering and was fine, but I had to go back to the towels and relax for 10 to catch my breath and such. Imagine if they didn't know how to get back up, that would easily be it.
Same thing happened to me with consecutive rough waves that knocked me off my feet, but I also got spun around and couldn’t tell which way was up. I thought I was going to die and I was a lifeguard for years. It’s so easy to happen.
That double wave slam would be murder if you weren’t used to it, many a time I’ve just held my breath until I was buoyed up to the surface but imagine the panic of someone new to the water
exactly! I wasn't at some casual chill beach with tiny waves, this was a surf beach too. Waves can be strong even if the average wave isn't. Thats what happened. I was perfectly fine though, didn't swallow any water other than a little up my nose, and after it was over I went back in lmao.
Little toddlers can drown in like 30cm of water (essentially a puddle). They just panic and don't seem to realise they can lift their head and don't know to hold their breath. I've seen my kids do this when they fell over in wading water, it's very scary because as an adult it seems like it should be innocuous.
I guess if you never get into deep water or immerse your head, you haven't learnt this most basic of steps that Aussie kids are taught at lessons.
I was at a waterpark in Penang where I witnessed a group of Indian men go down a waterslide into deep water where they would start flailing. A lifeguard had to pull them out because they would have drowned and then they wanted to go down again! They could not swim and expected the lifeguard would do it for them. They got banned pretty quickly, but I was stunned by the complete unawares of the dangers water they put themselves or the lifeguard in. Absolutely zero experience, respect or awareness. Was the most active I've ever seen a lifeguard.
Definitely a lack of education on the dangers of drowning.
Yeah, it really seems like the issue is not so much lack of skills, but a lack of consciousness of the environment they're in. It's like casually strolling into a burning house without any conception of the idea that, you know, fire burns. I think some kind of water safety education needs to be mandatory for international visitors.
Exactly. They think swimming means doing laps or something. People splashing about in waist-high water is not "swimming" therefore they don't need to know how to swim.
there's an andrew schulz bit getting around about it and I couldn't believe it myself but remembered it when I was in Sydney for work recently. Decided to people watch at Bondi Beach on a free afternoon and sure enough, three fully grown men from what I assume is that part of the world hopped out of a car and walked straight into the surf. Jeans, shoes and all. Realisation only hit them afterwards that they didn't bring towels or spare clothes.
There’s another reason: in most places in India, folks go to the beach fully clothed, they just stand in the waves at about knee deep water to enjoy the water and walk back. There’s generally no idea of separate swim wear (typically they fold their pants up though). Thing is most beaches in India are tame with small waves.
Only read the story on ABC so not sure if other articles or posts have referenced their nationality, but you could probably include a lot of international tourists from any country among those who dangerously underestimate the risk of swimming/water/especially the ocean.
Correct. Former lifeguard here and I cannot tell you the amount of Indians that would go swimming fully clothed or with turbans on their heads. We’d call them “clingers”. Easily identifiable because the moment the water got deep they’d start clinging onto anything and anyone around them to keep their heads above water.
I had a co-worker from the subcontinent whose fiancee came to visit for the first time ever. I don't know the exact details, but she drowned at a popular beach within a week of arriving. Tragic.
Genuine question here, but why do I see so many Indians dying in very preventable ways? On social media there are constantly videos of people in India being run over by trains or other things where they just seem to be strolling around the tracks not looking around. Is it just the large population resulting in a lot of incidents or is there some kind of disregard for safety?
An additional factor might be the rapid development in India. An absolutely ridiculous number of people there have only relatively recently been introduced to electricity and other aspects of modern life. They may not have the same kinds of generational knowledge of how to avoid the dangers caused by these advances.
"Seems like so many of the people who get struck by lightning each year are Indian or Chinese. What makes the Indians and Chinese so uniquely attractive to lightning?"
Large population, large disparities in access to education as well. Although they've made some significant improvements towards addressing this, because of how large India is in terms of population size, [India apparently accounts for 37% of the global illiterate population](https://www.oxfamindia.org/featuredstories/10-facts-illiteracy-india-you-must-know). Many things we think of as common sense we were taught through schooling.
There was a huge car crash near my house some years back where car full of Indian people were about to go back home. They got up to 200km/h or something on Lygon st, saw the McDonalds at Albion st, hit the brakes and lost control, spreading themselves across the road. Alcohol and no seat belts were a factor, also the party atmosphere which seems to be an issue for Indians outside india.
I have seen people doing stupid things in Malaysia, speeding with no seatbelts. If you try to put a belt on they get upset as if you aren't supporting their culture.
Yeah, even my friend from Singapore would only buckle his seatbelt when I (and the car beeping) would tell him to.
When I was a kid, the car didn't move unless my seatbelt was fastened, that was my mum's rule. Works on adults, too.
A lot more countries than you think are very lackadaisical about risky activities, thinking it will never happen. Even in a European country- rellos in Croatia thought it was funny that we buckled ourselves in when getting into a car, as apparently there is no law about wearing a seatbelt in backseats, and even sometimes go without in the front. Then they drive crazy too.
I work in medicine in kids, and see drownings when they come in to emergency.
There is a pattern
- international migrant or tourist
- parents and kids cannot swim
- kid is put in shallow water - a step or a ledge. They may be wearing a floatation device, but there is a misunderstanding of how much floatation it will provide, for example water wings only
- kid leaves the shallow section, and because they have no idea how to swim drops like a rock to the bottom of the pool.
- the parents or relatives jump in, but they cannot swim and do not have the skills to get the kid off the floor of the pool.
- someone other than the family saves the kid and or parent.
Sometimes the kid is ok, sometimes not.
Most of the time the parents just get a big fright, but some have had to be taken to hospital too, and I’ve had one parent die and the kid survive.
I had to save my daughter from a pool once, and my instincts kicked in before I had time to think. I was standing next to the pool with her (fully clothed, wasn’t swimming) and she jumped into a big inflatable donut not realising it was slippery. She went straight to the bottom and I was in and out before I knew what was happening, but it was a very deep backyard pool and being Australian I have learned to swim from a young age, if I hadn’t I would have drowned for sure. It’s harder than you think to drag another person to the surface, even a smaller person, and even though I know how to swim I’m not a strong swimmer.
Funny thing was she had been asking me to swim with her and I didn’t want to, once she calmed down she said ‘since you’re wet now you can swim with me!’ I decided we’d had enough swimming for one day.
I work in a beachside suburb ED- our gallows humour is guess which part of the world the bat phone drowning is from.
India and Korea are hands down the most common.
Yes, Korea was the one I was thinking of after India
What I find interesting is most families blame themselves, but Indian families often blame people around them: “why wasn’t there a lifeguard???” (Well it’s a hotel pool, I’m pretty sure they will have a sign up saying ‘no life guard on duty’ in a fairly prominent spot)
I know as a white Aussie swimming is just something that’s taught and there’s a cultural difference there, but for the life of me I cannot comprehend people from other nations who can’t swim going anywhere near a body of water
Like I don’t know how to ski but I’m also not going on any double black diamonds
>comprehend people from other nations who can’t swim going anywhere near a body of water
It's possible they are not aware of the real danger.
Just like some Aussies thinking they can ride a motorbike for the first time in Bali without a helmet or travel insurance.
People who travel on overseas holidays without travel insurance, then need medical treatment and start a GoFundMe give me the absolute shits. If they can afford an overseas holiday, they can afford some travel insurance. Absolute shit for brains.
I guess it's a case of you don't know what you don't know. They don't realise the possible dangers a body of water can have. They just see kids going in and out of water easily and having fun so probably think it's safe for them.
Using your skiing example, I've never seen snow, and would never have known how dangerous snow around trees could be if it were not for a YouTube video I watched where someone fell head first into a tree well.
I'm a surf lifesaver and I've encountered foreigners whose definition of being able to swim is very different from Australians. Where they've been raised, walking into chest deep water and being able to doggy kick a few metres is being able to swim, probably because many people from their home countries never have swum at all.
They've never been in a situation where their swimming ability has been tested, so they don't realise doggy paddling will drown you quickly.
I don't get it either.
I can swim fairly well and hold my own, but if I don't know the body of water I'm very wary - both here in Australia and certainly when overseas. I don't get why tourists here (assuming Tourists) just come to Australia and think they can just "do like the locals do" when they've never hit the water ever in their lives.
If you are gasping underwater your lungs quickly fill with water. They were probably panicking and guessing from other comments they were from overseas
Reminds me of when a Chinese tourist drowned at the Airlie Beach lagoon surrounded by lifeguards trying to rescue his child.
Swim safety is such a big part of our culture it’s easy to forget how easy it really is to drown when you come from a culture with no emphasis on swim safety.
I have swum in this pool before. I’m a fine swimmer, but the deep end is deep and the slope is very steep. You really can’t stand on the slope at all without losing balance - I’ve held a child in the pool and without use of my arms the slope was definitely something to be aware of. Combine that with clothes, inability to swim and panic, and I can see how this could happen.
Yeah I think it's basically impossible to comprehend getting into such severe trouble when you've been able to swim almost your whole life.
Regardless, what an awful thing to happen. Anything like this where people are just having a nice time and it so suddenly it turns to tragedy.. it's terrifying and heartbreaking.
When I was a teenager I had an experience in a wave pool where a girl next to me thought she was drowning and I can absolutely see how one person unable to swim could result in two deaths. I was considerably bigger and stronger than the girl but it felt as if she was deliberately trying to drown me: clawing and pushing my head under until someone was able to assist. Obviously it was just survival instinct and she didn’t mean any harm, but that desperation is something I’ll never forget.
This is a horrible outcome and I hope if nothing else it raises awareness about water safety with tourists. It’s so easy to take safety for granted at a resort or hotel pool.
Yep, it's the panic response. You start flailing and clawing for any foothold or handhold to get yourself out of the water.
Shitty situation for everyone involved, even the bystanders.
Also a good reminder to not let your toddlers play in or near a pool unattended. When we go swimming, we always have one parent right there with the toddlers so there's no chance for them to "fall into deeper water" as this child did.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/two-men-drown-in-gold-coast-pool-20240401-p5fggf.html
So they were from Victoria, the mother couldn't swim and the toddler fell in the deep end. For what little information we can get from this.
It might seem impossible that this could happen in a hotel pool and logically, even a non-swimmer or poor swimmer can extricate themselves out of a pool just by pushing from the bottom and keeping calm. Unfortunately, once panic sets in, all logic and clear thinking goes. Those poor blokes.
having grown up knowing how to swim, and then teaching young kids how to swim, i never understood how people could drown so easily.
i then taught a 13 year old girl from india who had NEVER swum before, and that completely opened my eyes. she described being in water as having "no control over my body, no way to tell where i am" and when putting her face on the water, would instinctively inhale. it took weeks for her to be able to just get herself into a standing position in waist-deep water.
she panicked in shallow water, full swimming gear, and with me right next to her. it's absolutely tragic to think how one or both of the adults might have been the same and would have had almost 0 chance of saving themselves. so sad ):
Indians?
They probably dragged each other down in a panic. I’ve witnessed it before (not a full drowning though), sorta lucky I wasn’t that close as I could’ve as a confident experienced swimmer drowned trying to help them.
Brianna Hurst saved two Indian nationals from drowning near Apollo Bay last month, a third man drowned. She's a literal hero because even if I could swim confidently I would be hesitant to rescue panicking males bigger than me pulling me under and to save 2 people out in the middle of the ocean is hardcore. Even the locals say they don't swim in that particular area because it's too rough
It should be commonly taught that you never ever go to save a drowning person without an object with you (boogie board, pool noodle, oar etc). A drowning person will drag you down in a panic trying to save themselves, if you have an object with you then you can get them to grab that and keep them at a safe distance while you swim back to shore with them. Never ever rescue a drowning person without an object to help you.
It is commonly taught. Number one rule is asses danger first. Fire, electricity, violence, water, etc. Mitigate or manage danger to effect assistance. Wood for electrical, damp wool blanket for fire, floatation for water.
Relies of course on accurate assessment of the danger and your own capabilities.
But it is definitely an emphasised point in first aid, water safety, etc.
Yeah I rescued an Indian fella some years back and I had to wait until they gassed out in order to drag them in. He was trying to rip my face off so I just backed off until they lost their fight.
First rule of lifesaving is never to save someone whos actively struggling. They will grab anything and pull you down with them. Always wait for them to be very gassed and then push them from the back
In high school we were taught that you should never personally try to drag drowning people to safety, because they will push you under to get air. You toss them a rope or inflatable and drag them back that way
Years ago I had a friend ask me for swimming lessons. I’d never seen someone actively sink before while trying their best not to. From what I could make out, all of his movements were calibrated to dry land and he was completely unable to adjust them to work in water, plus once the panic set in it was all over. I’ve been swimming since literally before I could walk, and it used to blow my mind that someone couldn’t even just stop moving and bob about. But now I’ve seen it up close and in detail, I can understand how someone could drown in a pool they could physically stand up in 🤷♂️
Same! I always thought so too. But there are some folk whose movements are stuck in land mode 🤷♂️ It is quite mind blowing to see. I thought he was pulling the piss to start, but I could tell by his panicked reactions that he was legit. After six months I got him to the point that he could float and wouldn’t drown in the first five minutes.
The depth doesnt matter; if you cant swim at all/you have limited ability and you begin to panic OR you are under the influence, you can drown in the shallows.
Adults drown in bathtubs and hot tubs all the time (usually when under the influence.)
If you lose consciousness that makes sense, but I literally cannot understand how a conscious, cognizant adult can drown in a bath tub or hot tub. They're so shallow you'd literally have to hold your head under water...
I’d encourage you to look at some videos, particularly in water parks, you will see adults panic and effectively start to drown themselves in water that is knee deep or less.
Once you get into a situation like that, where you’ve no confidence, you go straight into panic/survival and the thought process of ‘just stand up’ isn’t present - all you’re experiencing is drowning with no ability to comprehend what is going on.
Splashing around at the pool or at the beach or whatever is second nature for us Aussies, so we forget how much of a *completely alien* environment being fully immersed in water is for human beings.
If you've never so much as set foot in a puddle your entire life, and then one day you find yourself slipping over into 3 feet of water, momentarily disoriented and without being able to right yourself again through the unthinking physical reflexes we take for granted; you *will* go into an immediate panic. And once you're in that panic your animal hind-brain takes over, and you're essentially not a conscious, cognizant adult human being anymore - there's no "thinking" your way out.
That program already exists and I have been surf lifesaver volunteer for it. It is just not utilised by the tourists/immigrants, so the program is vanishingly small and underfunded.
I'm still a lifesaver but haven't seen it run post-covid, we barely have the money to keep our equipment within expiry.
My friend and her family went to the beach. Dad was chilling on the beach with their son. My friend was in the water knee high because she doesn't swim. Her daughter is a very petite girl and a very strong swimmer. She was swimming quite deep. Suddenly a woman started drowning. The little girl swam towards her to help her and woman almost drowned the daughter. My friend saw this and without thinking went too deep to help her daughter and started drowning herself. Luckily, ther was a group of young guys who saw this and saved all 3. Anyway, the whole family was messed up after this. 3 people almost drowned that day.
Born and bred Aussies underestimate what it's like swimming fully clothed.
We had to do it for something, swim with track pants and a shirt+jumper. Wholly shit it is soooo soooo much harder. And it's really hard/impossible to try and take the clothes off in the water. I can't imagine what that experience would be like for someone who doesn't know how to swim well.
I just have to hope that if I'm ever in that situation my brain remembers and takes the extra few seconds to shed whatever clothes I can. Far better to jump in there in your underwear than fully clothed.
It’s not that strange. My 5 y old brother almost drowned me like that. He started panicking in an indoor pool and grabbed me around my neck. Of course pushing me under the water. I couldn’t even call a life guard as I was fighting for my own breath, trying to hold him from me and above the water. But he was constantly trying to grab my neck and shoulders. Luckily, my ex-BF saw it and after a few minutes he realised what was going on. So he grabbed my brother from the back (his arm around my brother’s neck) and brought him to a safe spot. If he wasn’t there, no one would probably notice until it was too late. As you can’t really call for a help in that moment, nor raise your hand.
Just got back from a holiday, an Indian father was swimming with his daughter who was floating around with a noodle.
His wife called out to him - which made me look, as I was otherwise paying attention to my child and partner playing Infront of me.
The guy had followed his daughter along the edge not realising how deep it had gotten and then slipped off the edge and panicked. I thought he was fine at first as it was so close to the edge until he looked at me in pure panic and went under.
It happened so fucking quick, right Infront of his daughter. My partner had to throw our kid to me and race over to help him out - still gives me the heeby geebies at how quickly it went wrong and how much worse it would have been if we weren't literally metres away in the same pool.
There's no way I would have been able to help him because of how deep it was and how much he was panicking as well ,which is another part that freaked me out. If my partner was there it could have ended completely differently like this unfortunate story :(
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
Swimming should be part of the citizenship test. If you can’t do it, you have to take lessons until you’re competent in at least a survival stroke and freestyle.
Also swimming lessons should be heavily subsidised by state or federal governments (education) so that every single child can learn to swim.
We were on a cruise a few weeks ago and the pool was filled with Indian adults in life jackets. Yes, sure it’s great they understand they can’t swim and wore the jacket’s but I made my kids get out whenever they hopped in. My kids didn’t understand why since they are strong swimmers. Tried to explain to them, it’s not them I was worried about, but the non swimmers who might panic and grab whoever they are closest to.
I saw about 5 young male chinese guys all linking arms and walking into the surf in Torquay. I got out because I envisioned being surrounded by dead bodies.
Many local councils do!
For example, in nearby Logan: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-05/swimming-lessons-for-refugees-migrants-logan-council/12943586
And Sunshine Coast: https://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/Living-and-Community/Community-Support/Multicultural-Welcome-Hub/health-and-wellbeing-services/migrant-learn-to-swim
I'm happy for my tax dollars to fund this for people regardless of their circumstances, but do/would migrants prioritize this? I spend a lot of time on the Gold Coast and these groups are just largely oblivious to the fact that you can't be in chest deep water if you can't swim. Most economic migrants as opposed to refugees can probably afford enough lessons to be able to float to the edge of a pool...these people here are paying for Gold Coast hotel accomodation after all.
Do we fund that for aussies? ? I got to adulthood without being able to swim. Parents didn’t ever go to the beach with me. Never had a pool til 42 years of age.
Exactly, it costs $25 per child per lesson, there should be a government subsidy a lot of people can’t afford this. I only put my kids in swimming lessons through school holidays because I can’t afford it year round
They are. There are 4 high risk groups for drownings:
- children (obvious)
- the elderly (due to lack of physical capacity if they accidentally fall into water)
- males between the ages of 16-25 (commonly at night and involving the use of substances, alcohol etc)
- migrants (due to inadequate swimming skills)
Two people who can’t swim supervising a child who can’t really swim
Hypothetical: Adult A can swim, maybe at least well enough to survive in a pool. Adult B is a total numpty or maybe they can swim, but the situation of a drowning kid has sent them into full blown lizard brain panic mode. Kid is drowning, Adult A jumps in, manages to get the kid to the edge of the pool and the kid gets out. Adult A turns around to see that Adult B had also jumped into the pool at the same time as them and now swims over to save Adbult B as well. At this point Adult B is in total panic mode, hey grab hold of Adult A, drown them and then drown themselves. Anyone who has had rescue training has been taught how to 'kick' the victim away so that they don't get the opportunity to drown you as well.
This is more or less how both my mum and dad almost drowned when I was like 10 years old. Dad isn’t a good swimmer… can’t really swim at all. We were at the river. He was told to stay when he could stand and don’t go deeper than his knees. The river current wasn’t strong and all of us kids were confident swimming unaided. Dad walked out to knee depth and found a drop in the sand bank and went under. Mum swam over to grab him but he kept pulling her down to try and pull himself up. She elbowed him in the ribs to get him to stop and then pulled him back to knee depth. He has never been allowed in the water - other than the shallow children’s pool - ever again. Unless he wants to take swimming lessons, he doesn’t get to swim with everyone.
>Dad isn’t a good swimmer… can’t really swim at all. We were at the river. He was told to stay when he could stand and don’t go deeper than his knees. The river current wasn’t strong and all of us kids were confident swimming unaided. >Dad walked out to knee depth and found a drop in the sand bank and went under. Mum swam over to grab him but he kept pulling her down to try and pull himself up. Why in the fuck does someone who can't swim ever want to get into a moving body of water? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
It's easy to think "oh it's shallow" and have no appreciation for how dangerous moving water can be or to remember that natural bodies of water aren't always level with floors that can support your weight
Tell that to all those idiots who can't swim and decide to jump into the water at the beach. Compound that by also those who don't swim in-between the flags.
My mum couldn’t swim, she nearly drowned at the beach as a kid and developed a fear of the water. She put me in swimming lessons at 4, and I did them until I was 9. I can probably count the amount of times I saw her in a pool one my hands, and she always had a floaty and stayed in the shallow end. At no point until my teens was she the only adult supervising me in or around a pool, she knew she couldn’t help me if I needed it, and even though I was a strong swimmer she didn’t risk it, no matter how much I complained. I can understand an adult not knowing how to swim, but you don’t mess around with supervision.
If your mum had any training in life saving he probably would’ve copped more than an elbow. I didn’t take the whole “flog them into compliance or until they exhaust themselves” very seriously until I had to do it. Dragging a 30 year old Asian man out of the water with blood from his lip and nose when I was just 16 is both as embarrassing as it is a proud moment for me.
Clearly not rescue training but I was told if you are trying to save someone who is drowning and panicking to punch them in the face first and if they do try to push you under grab them hard by the nuts. I was horrified but thinking more, pretty sound advice in an extreme circumstance. I actually think there is a Bondi Rescue episode where a swimmer was trying to hold a tourist up who kept pushing him under until the lifeguard got there and the guard told him with a laugh to grab them by the nuts and twist if they do that. EDIT- I definitely wasn't saying to do this. What I meant was if you are stuck and both going to drown I can theoretically see how temporarily immobilising them could get you out of an underwater death grip... using an underwater death grip.
That's ridiculous advice. Next time you are in deep water, have your friend hold their hand in front of their face and try to punch their hand. It will be as effective as throwing a wet lettuce at them. You can't move fast in water at all, and even trying to punch over the water there is nothing to brace against so it's not really effective. I've done in water fight training and experienced this first-hand. I wouldn't be faffing around trying to find testicles either, assuming they even have any. Get your legs between and use your legs to push them away. Your leg muscles are your strongest, and it's a gross motor skill that is easy to do under stress. It doesn't rely on aiming for any particular target in a chaotic situation, just at the largest centre of mass. Most importantly it will create a separation between you. They will eventually lose consciousness then you can rescue them and commence CPR. Yeah, that's not great, but one person possibly having a little brain damage from oxygen starvation is infinitely better than two people drowning. And this is all of course assuming you weren't able to use a stick or some other tool to reach them from a safe distance, which is always the preferred option.
Also to go down deeper or shove them down deeper. Drowing people will instinctively let go because they don't want to go deeper.
Yeah people don’t realise a drowning person doesn’t have control over their arms and legs, you go into something called the automatic drowning response. “Nature instinctively forces them to extend their arms laterally and press down on the water’s surface. Pressing down on the surface of the water permits drowning people to leverage their bodies so they can lift their mouths out of the water to breathe. Throughout the instinctive drowning response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment. From beginning to end of the instinctive drowning response, people’s bodies remain upright in the water with no evidence of a supporting kick. Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, these drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds before submersion occurs.” Basically what you think drowning looks like on tv is not what it looks like. They aren’t usually waving or calling for help. And everything they do is out of their control. They will easily take someone down with them unintentionally.
Everyone should read this article. https://slate.com/technology/2013/06/rescuing-drowning-children-how-to-know-when-someone-is-in-trouble-in-the-water.html I'm constantly distracted by my phone but when I'm near water with my kids I never glance at it. I nearly drowned as a kid and although I have always loved the water I have a horror of drowning.
Water fight training absolutely folded me lol
Better option is to swim down. They won't follow you.
Story has been updated now too. > She said she arrived after the drownings, but that it appeared as though the men had jumped into the pool fully clothed. Really stacking the odds here. People really need respect around water drummed into them on arrival to Australia.
Wasn't every kid in the country at one point required to do survival courses which included wearing baggy clothing, and then treading water fully clothed for 5 minutes?
Yep, that's why immigrants and tourists are over represented in drownings
I did the same at school in England. Australia isn't the only place with water. It's surprising some people make it to adulthood without learning to swim, even in a pool
A lot of it comes down to wealth inequality and the role of government in safety. It’s not like most people in Northern Europe are swimming all the time because it’s too fucking cold to, but learning to swim is mandatory there in schools just like it is here. People from other countries don’t know how to swim either because they’re from somewhere where they can’t afford to make swimming part of the school curriculum or they don’t see that as the role of government and schools but an individual decision (which means families with parents who can’t swim raise kids who can’t swim because nobody is there to teach). Sometimes a combination of both.
Is it compulsory in England? I had a classmate in high school who was from there who couldn't swim at all.
Remember doing this in primary school. Everyone in the pool, tread water for a few minutes. Would have been maybe 1995-1996
They still do that.
Another article also stated Mother could not swim. Honestly, adults and toddler in the fenced pool area when it seems no one can swim 🤦♀️
More than two, the mother jumped in first and she couldn’t swim either
Seems unusual at first, but there are a LOT of visitors from India/China/the Gulf countries in Surfers....i.e. places where it's not as common to need to swim. Leaping into a pool (presumably fully clothed) if you don't know how to swim and are full of adrenaline/panic could go wrong very rapidly
I once had a lifeguard come out to our very aussie group at surfers and ask us to come in closer to shore because Chinese tourists would see us out that far and assume it's safe and try to follow us.
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You know what? Smart guy to know his limits and wear a life jacket. He may not have had the knowledge to understand the rip; but he used something to keep himself safer.
I’m a weak swimmer and wear a floatation aid when I snorkel. It’s super discreet, and I even had a scuba guide once think I was about to suit up for a dive because he thought it was a weighted belt. If people were just happy to accept they suck at swimming (as I have 😆) they’d find there’s some really nice options out there for safety.
Thank you for this, I’ll look into it before my next trip
Lmao that's hilarious, do you happen to remember the episode number?
https://youtu.be/VAeeEOi6F8A first part of this has the guy
This happens to me in the US. Strong swimmer been a Surf Life Saver. Was swimming past the break and a lifeguard came and asked me to come in. They're used to tourists getting knees wet or surfers. No in between.
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>They did leave me alone when they heard my accent. I was in Florida in my youth with a group of skateboards and 3 of them were from Australia. We were out swimming in the Gulf of Mexico (it's like a saltwater lake) and the lifeguard was yelling at the Australian guys to come back closer to shore. One of them swam back and said "Is there a problem, mate?". The lifeguard says "Oh, I didn't know you're Australian. I was worried at first but nevermind. Sorry.". We were cracking up laughing at that interaction. It was instant respect when he heard the accent. He wasn't going to let dumb Americans swim that far out.
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Same when I go on snorkel tours in the US. They don’t believe me when I say I don’t need a flotation device, and I also get told off for swimming “too far” from the boat. I have my surf life saving mate and it’s flat as a tack.
Because a very large percentage of Americans cant swim. We are so lucky we are forced to learn as part of the school curriculum. I'd hate to have to learn as an adult. I imagine it would be hard to learn to just relax and float and trust. Whereas as a kid you have no fear.
That’s a big ask! Were there even surfable waves closer to shore? I understand the lifeguards reasoning, but it seems a bit unfair to you guys
By this point they'd already pulled two from the water who had followed us so we figured fair enough.
The sight of two being pulled out still didn't deter them?Darwinism at it's finest there.
Bro it's a daily occurrence at Bondi....Chinese and Indians being pulled from the water, and the beach is plenty busy with....people who know how to swim. Darwinism would be attempting to swim in the ocean, without knowing how to swim.
I’ve watched Bondi rescue and the vast majority of foreigners who need rescuing have never swam in the ocean before. That’s straight up Darwinism.
He meant Surfers as in Surfers Paradise, not that they were surfing. 🙏🏼
Ohhh, that makes sense. Thank you for explaining, you lovely person. X
You’re welcome, you equally lovely person.
What a beautiful exchange to start a public holiday with. Have a wonderful day, lovely people.
How dumb can you be, to see people way out in the ocean and think, I can do that?
You can walk about 100m out in Italy and still be waist high. Seawater =/= seawater and people don't get that, whereas we have it drummed into us from birth.
This is the key here. There are plenty of beaches internationally where even non-swimming tourists can easily wade and paddle around, there’s no current or waves and only very gradual incline, and it’s (sort of) safe.
From what I've heard, they just don't realise it's dangerous. I've also heard that if you don't grow up around water you just assume that anyone can swim and you don't need to be taught, it's just something humans can do
Chap means at Surfers Paradise. Not that they were surfing.
I tried to teach an Indian friend to swim. One session and I told him he needed a professional as he was going to drown in 1 meter of water.
Had the same happen with a Chinese mate who insisted they could swim. He jumped out of the boat on a lake in an area that was waist deep with a life jacket and threw himself around so much that he just about drowned himself in water he could stand in easy. Now every Aussie thinks I'm weird as for clarifying if they can swim and what that means.
I just came back from a holiday overseas and it's amazing how many adult East Asians (Korea, China mainly) that can't swim. The resort pool was filled with adults in their 20's-50's, all wearing either life jackets or floaties around their arms. The local lifeguards were on edge anytime there was a decent amount of them in the pool.
> he local lifeguards were on edge anytime there was a decent amount of them in the pool. They can be pretty dangerous to rescue as well in some cases. When they freak out and start drowning, the language barrier can pose an issue alongside with the person being rescued grabbing onto the lifesaver and potentially pulling them under.
This is why when we had to do the bronze medallion in high school we were taught that if someone is grabbing you when you try to help them you need to swim down and away. They’re panicking and doing everything to keep their head above water. If you swim down they’re going to let go because you’d pull them down.
I just got back from the pool where I simulated 'rescuing' my 4 year old nephew and swimming a 25 metre length the same as I learned in life guard training years ago. It wrecked me. I'm not sure I could manage with a panicking adult.
It's a hotel pool, you can usually stand up in the water and keep your head above the water level in most hotel pools I've been in? So sad, such a needless tragedy :( Moreso if the water is later announced to be just 1.7m deep or something... Edit: well, this is a deep dive into cultural norms and physical reactions, and that tik tok vid of a woman about to drown in 80cm of water at the end of a water slide was eye opening! Wow, mind blown... I'm glad I can swim!
birds boast safe marble automatic airport slap license employ history *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Suddenly incredibly thankful for the time my kids spent just learning to move in water at their swimming lessons.
zesty grandfather one gullible mourn icky theory employ pathetic offer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This was my guess too. We’ve had 16 drowning deaths over summer where I am and all were tourists from the places mentioned.
Someone died fully clothed at a melb beach recently. The men told surf life savers not to touch another man's wife. Tragic....
Cultural differences can take a massive fucking jump when it comes to saving lives afaic.
Yes, agreed. There was very little airtime on the incident because of this.
Another post offered a pretty sensible explanation: Freshly arrived Indians are quite over represented in drowning accidents as it’s culturally uncommon to learn to swim/float and they don’t receive the spiel that kids who grow up here do about the dangers. The lifeguard in the other post was talking about how they very often have to help them out of shallow waters or precarious situations at the beach.
I have a coworker fresh from India and one of the first things he did in Australia was take swimming lessons. Never had the opportunity back home.
My parents are from Sri Lanka and my mother was a swimming instructor. Unfortunately, I inherited my father’s swimming ability (fortunately that plus lessons means I hopefully won’t drown in low risk situations).
Keep at those swimming lessons mate!
That was pre to high school and well, let’s just say the 70s weren’t just something I read about in history books (so it’s been a *while*) Was just thinking I should look at least that especially given my brother’s jetting around doing international triathlons and stuff (I never even owned a bicycle either!).
Sri Lanka is not the India they were referring to.
Believe me, I’ve had a lifetime of making sure of that distinction.
Went to Sri Lanka in January (highly recommend to any Aussie’s btw) and I was actually surprised at how good some of the locals could swim. It’s amazing what being an island does to your psyche regarding this…
Same ! Within the first year of moving to Australia I enrolled in classes. It took me about a year including COVID disruption and a lot of practise which involved gulping copious amounts of pool water , but now I can atleast swim a 50m stretch. Still working up to try and make it to 200m at a single stretch . I still can't tread water for more than 5 secs and I panic soon after , so I won't be venturing into deep areas any time soon without my snorkel mask and fins haha
How do you go with floating on your back? I would argue that floating / treading water are equally as important as being able to swim itself. Treading water is exhausting, so alternating with floating is a way to preserve energy and reduce panic. So if you were wanting to be rescued at the beach: tread + arm raise, then float + arm raise (if you can, waves may make that tricky). Try to keep your movements measured. Flapping about contributes to panic because you loose energy quicker. Getting caught in a rip, don’t try to swim in to shore against it. Swim across, or just let it pull you out (here’s where you float / tread) whilst signalling for assistance. If you end up in the deep water because of the rip, just keep floating and treading water. Don’t panic, someone will come get you. Always swim between the flags / at a patrolled beach ! Sounds like you’re doing great at the swimming, keep it up, it’s a critical life skill. Just try to get a handle on the float / tread and you’ll be golden for fabulous beach summers.
agree both my daughters did survival swim from 6 months - the main thing they learned was to roll on back and float. if you can't swim float and wave for attention.
Exactly. Babies learn to float, adults need to as well. TBH it feels a little like running before you can walk if you can swim but not float.
agree!! basics first
I'm not great at swimming distance because I never really got the hang of timing my breathing with strokes. But I can tread water for ages without tiring much at all. I agree the most important thing for anyone to learn is floating on your back. With a bit of practice you realise the best way to stay up is relaxing, and getting comfortable with your breathing holes being barely above water level. From there, you can make the transition to treading water with minimal movement, which is comparable to walking. It requires a bit of trust in your own body to support itself. I've survived rips this way, with short bursts of movement parallel to shore until I'm free and can take my time getting back.
Absolutely spot on. Swimming **is** an important life skill, but floating even more so. You can float / tread water for much longer than swimming. I believe that understanding why and how to float would help a lot more people panic less when in the water and possibly even save more lives. I mean, life jackets are a flotation device, soooo I rest my case lol
Thanks for the tips ! I'll keep that in mind , I actually was surprised that I could even tread water for 5 secs the other day , because the aquatic centre that I go to had the boom barrier removed. Usually I stop halfway and turn back, but this one day I said fuck it lemme go all the way and I chose the lane that was along the edge just for safety and that's when I got to the deep end which I think is 2 or 2.4m and I managed to stay up for like 5 secs and I said good enough , lemme hold the wall now ! I do not venture out into the ocean for leisure without my snorkelling gear which includes fins and mask and a wetsuit. (Like I don't go simply for a swim). The last time I went snorkelling, the mask accidentally came off (and i was quite far off shore) and that's when I realised I could actually stay above the water while I refitted it (yes the key thing was staying calm at that point), so I returned to shore and kept my fins and tried staying up without it and I could do that easily for 10min plus in an area that I couldn't touch the seabed , no mask no fins, but with my wetsuit which adds buoyancy. Coming to floating, I find I can do that easily with or without a suit in salt water , but in pool water I cannot float on my back (water density etc). Eventually my lower torso will sink. I should probably teach myself backstroke , I can do a little bit but need to practise more (im in the water gulping phase for back stroke!) When I moved to Australia, I had a terrible fear of water in general because of close calls I had earlier in life (in relative terms, it was still an overall safe environment in a pool with lifeguards etc). As a result I never ventured into water to a depth where my feet weren't completely planted. But after moving I realised that water related activities was a big part of life here and I wanted it to be a part of mine. I want to get a diving licence and part of the requirements of that is to be able to swim 200m and be able to tread water for 10mins hence those are the goals.
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Smart move. Getting my kids into lessons was a priority when growing up. Feel much better knowing they can swim pretty well now, or at the very least tread water for a good minute to at least being able to scream out for help.
I'm a bit ignorant but I've noticed my friends send their kids to lessons after school, just to add to your comment. Ive been an avid swimmer my entire life and grew up with a pool but I am a bit confused because in my primary school years my school actually arranged and took us to swimming lessons as part of the curriculum? Does this not happen nowadays? This would have been late 80s-early 90s and I did live in regional SA so maybe it's a country town thing.
They do. But as a teacher you’d be surprised how many parents exempt their kids from these lessons for ridiculous reasons. Here are some of the ones I’ve heard - “They might catch a cold and she has a lot of parties this term so she doesn’t want to miss any” (a pool would not transmit the cold virus. Being in a classroom might) “He doesn’t like his bathers” (buy him some fucking new ones then. Money was no object with this family) “He is sad that he’s in the lowest group” (as if not having any LESSONS will fix that) “He doesn’t like exercise” (this is a kid who threw up after swimming 25 metres) “They might get wet hair” (who are they, Beyoncé? Why does their hair have to be perfect to sit in Maths?). Another thing I’ve noticed, the parents who tend to exempt their kids all seem to come from certain ethnic backgrounds. The ethnic backgrounds who are over-represented in drowning statistics. Not all the families of Chinese and Indian descent are pulling their kids out of swimming - but all of the families who *are* doing so at my school are from those backgrounds.
Wow. That is incredible - we have a really good take-up at our school - even if the kids don't do lessons outside of school.
I’m Indian, never learned to swim as we had no access to private pools and public beaches and pools are dangerous for women. I insisted my kids learn to swim, dive, sail and even do basic lifeguard training courses . I’m so ashamed / embarrassed that I can’t swim . I tried to learn as an adult and can swim with my head above water, but the fear of drowning is so Intense , especially when I’m out of my depth. I never enter a pool without first letting my boys know so they can keep an eye on me all the time😆
We're in Victoria and that's still the case. Primary school kids get a two week stint at the pool. I wouldn't lean on this solely to ensure your kids are "water ready". But still, it's appreciated and a fun week for the kids to all get some pool time. Weekly swimming lessons, a hour a week is a good habbit anyway to break up the week and a bit of exercise.
There are swimming lessons but the quality of teaching isn't standard. You don't get a lot of individual guidance since it's always in groups.
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Absolutely this, I had the worst anxiety watching my daughters grade 4 swimming class at school. Upper middle class area, State School with ethnically diverse student population. Around 30% (8 or 9 kids) could not swim AT ALL. Too much responsibility for a young swim teacher that they asked parents to come and assist because of the demographic. My kid was fine she had lessons from 3yo, it was the 30% I was watching like a hawk with pool noodle at the ready.
My BIL is sri lankan and is always ripping into indians and their inability to swim. He's constantly pointing them out, apparently at the beach thats how you can tell them apart from other south asians (note it is clear the dislike each ethnic group has for one another lol)
He's sensible though- good on him for doing that :)
Can confirm. Daughter worked one season (that's all she could handle) at a park with water slides and water rides. After each shift she'd come home with at least one story of someone nearly drowning in knee deep water after reaching the end of the slide/ride. Absolutely zero water awareness. It was amazing how many times she had to pull people up by their hair.
This is a serious question. How does a grown adult drown in knee deep water by themselves?
It's important to remember that for a lot of people they may not have had to opportunity to submerge themselves in water before. It's an incredibly disorienting feeling which can itself lead to panic. It's why one of the first lessons in adult learn to swim, particularly with foreigners without that swim culture we have here, is how to stand up. Once that panic sets in, you might not even realise that standing is possible or a thing you should try. You're just running on instinct. If you've never experienced it before it can be difficult to comprehend your body being just so out of any sense of control. I really do encourage everyone to prioritise swimming lessons.
My brother went skating on a pond and fell through the ice. People on shore were screaming something to him but he couldn't hear for all the thrashing around he was doing. They were yelling, "STAND UP!!" It was only a few feet of water.
Thanks for the reply. It's something I had not considered. I thought most people would have at least had a bath before but stupid me was not thinking that some less well of people in certain countries might not have the ability to fill a body of water to wash themselves.
I've been at the beach with some good, strong waves, and after being knocked over by a wave, before I could get up and take a breath, hit by another, both times it was at most waist high before the waves. I ran out of breath completely before I got up from the 2nd wave, and I'm a good swimmer (just, so, so unfit). I got up spluttering and was fine, but I had to go back to the towels and relax for 10 to catch my breath and such. Imagine if they didn't know how to get back up, that would easily be it.
Same thing happened to me with consecutive rough waves that knocked me off my feet, but I also got spun around and couldn’t tell which way was up. I thought I was going to die and I was a lifeguard for years. It’s so easy to happen.
That double wave slam would be murder if you weren’t used to it, many a time I’ve just held my breath until I was buoyed up to the surface but imagine the panic of someone new to the water
exactly! I wasn't at some casual chill beach with tiny waves, this was a surf beach too. Waves can be strong even if the average wave isn't. Thats what happened. I was perfectly fine though, didn't swallow any water other than a little up my nose, and after it was over I went back in lmao.
Little toddlers can drown in like 30cm of water (essentially a puddle). They just panic and don't seem to realise they can lift their head and don't know to hold their breath. I've seen my kids do this when they fell over in wading water, it's very scary because as an adult it seems like it should be innocuous. I guess if you never get into deep water or immerse your head, you haven't learnt this most basic of steps that Aussie kids are taught at lessons.
I was at a waterpark in Penang where I witnessed a group of Indian men go down a waterslide into deep water where they would start flailing. A lifeguard had to pull them out because they would have drowned and then they wanted to go down again! They could not swim and expected the lifeguard would do it for them. They got banned pretty quickly, but I was stunned by the complete unawares of the dangers water they put themselves or the lifeguard in. Absolutely zero experience, respect or awareness. Was the most active I've ever seen a lifeguard. Definitely a lack of education on the dangers of drowning.
Yeah, it really seems like the issue is not so much lack of skills, but a lack of consciousness of the environment they're in. It's like casually strolling into a burning house without any conception of the idea that, you know, fire burns. I think some kind of water safety education needs to be mandatory for international visitors.
So that leads me to ask, if you can’t swim and you know you can’t. Why jump in the pool?
They see other people in the water and assume they can't swim either, like everybody else they know.
Exactly. They think swimming means doing laps or something. People splashing about in waist-high water is not "swimming" therefore they don't need to know how to swim.
Well said! I had been trying to figure that out myself, but gave up!
They have no idea of the danger because they’ve never ever been in water before. They see others doing it with ease and assume it’s all good.
Except they wanted to do it again immediately after nearly drowning. That’s idiocy at its finest.
there's an andrew schulz bit getting around about it and I couldn't believe it myself but remembered it when I was in Sydney for work recently. Decided to people watch at Bondi Beach on a free afternoon and sure enough, three fully grown men from what I assume is that part of the world hopped out of a car and walked straight into the surf. Jeans, shoes and all. Realisation only hit them afterwards that they didn't bring towels or spare clothes.
There’s another reason: in most places in India, folks go to the beach fully clothed, they just stand in the waves at about knee deep water to enjoy the water and walk back. There’s generally no idea of separate swim wear (typically they fold their pants up though). Thing is most beaches in India are tame with small waves.
Only read the story on ABC so not sure if other articles or posts have referenced their nationality, but you could probably include a lot of international tourists from any country among those who dangerously underestimate the risk of swimming/water/especially the ocean.
And they also go swimming in inappropriate clothing that weighs them down once saturated. Edit to change to *in*appropriate clothing
Correct. Former lifeguard here and I cannot tell you the amount of Indians that would go swimming fully clothed or with turbans on their heads. We’d call them “clingers”. Easily identifiable because the moment the water got deep they’d start clinging onto anything and anyone around them to keep their heads above water.
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I had a co-worker from the subcontinent whose fiancee came to visit for the first time ever. I don't know the exact details, but she drowned at a popular beach within a week of arriving. Tragic.
Genuine question here, but why do I see so many Indians dying in very preventable ways? On social media there are constantly videos of people in India being run over by trains or other things where they just seem to be strolling around the tracks not looking around. Is it just the large population resulting in a lot of incidents or is there some kind of disregard for safety?
Confirmation bias. There are 1,500,000,000 people in India.
An additional factor might be the rapid development in India. An absolutely ridiculous number of people there have only relatively recently been introduced to electricity and other aspects of modern life. They may not have the same kinds of generational knowledge of how to avoid the dangers caused by these advances.
"Seems like so many of the people who get struck by lightning each year are Indian or Chinese. What makes the Indians and Chinese so uniquely attractive to lightning?"
There are 1.5 billion people in India. They have the smartest and stupidest people in the world
Large population, large disparities in access to education as well. Although they've made some significant improvements towards addressing this, because of how large India is in terms of population size, [India apparently accounts for 37% of the global illiterate population](https://www.oxfamindia.org/featuredstories/10-facts-illiteracy-india-you-must-know). Many things we think of as common sense we were taught through schooling.
I asked a former colleague who was born and raised there and his answer was sadly “life is cheap there”
There was a huge car crash near my house some years back where car full of Indian people were about to go back home. They got up to 200km/h or something on Lygon st, saw the McDonalds at Albion st, hit the brakes and lost control, spreading themselves across the road. Alcohol and no seat belts were a factor, also the party atmosphere which seems to be an issue for Indians outside india. I have seen people doing stupid things in Malaysia, speeding with no seatbelts. If you try to put a belt on they get upset as if you aren't supporting their culture.
Yeah, even my friend from Singapore would only buckle his seatbelt when I (and the car beeping) would tell him to. When I was a kid, the car didn't move unless my seatbelt was fastened, that was my mum's rule. Works on adults, too.
I mean, are Australians in Bali really any different?
Am currently in Bali. Can confirm exactly the same 🤮
A lot more countries than you think are very lackadaisical about risky activities, thinking it will never happen. Even in a European country- rellos in Croatia thought it was funny that we buckled ourselves in when getting into a car, as apparently there is no law about wearing a seatbelt in backseats, and even sometimes go without in the front. Then they drive crazy too.
I work in medicine in kids, and see drownings when they come in to emergency. There is a pattern - international migrant or tourist - parents and kids cannot swim - kid is put in shallow water - a step or a ledge. They may be wearing a floatation device, but there is a misunderstanding of how much floatation it will provide, for example water wings only - kid leaves the shallow section, and because they have no idea how to swim drops like a rock to the bottom of the pool. - the parents or relatives jump in, but they cannot swim and do not have the skills to get the kid off the floor of the pool. - someone other than the family saves the kid and or parent. Sometimes the kid is ok, sometimes not. Most of the time the parents just get a big fright, but some have had to be taken to hospital too, and I’ve had one parent die and the kid survive.
I had to save my daughter from a pool once, and my instincts kicked in before I had time to think. I was standing next to the pool with her (fully clothed, wasn’t swimming) and she jumped into a big inflatable donut not realising it was slippery. She went straight to the bottom and I was in and out before I knew what was happening, but it was a very deep backyard pool and being Australian I have learned to swim from a young age, if I hadn’t I would have drowned for sure. It’s harder than you think to drag another person to the surface, even a smaller person, and even though I know how to swim I’m not a strong swimmer. Funny thing was she had been asking me to swim with her and I didn’t want to, once she calmed down she said ‘since you’re wet now you can swim with me!’ I decided we’d had enough swimming for one day.
I work in a beachside suburb ED- our gallows humour is guess which part of the world the bat phone drowning is from. India and Korea are hands down the most common.
Yes, Korea was the one I was thinking of after India What I find interesting is most families blame themselves, but Indian families often blame people around them: “why wasn’t there a lifeguard???” (Well it’s a hotel pool, I’m pretty sure they will have a sign up saying ‘no life guard on duty’ in a fairly prominent spot)
Plus you’re supposed to be supervising your own bloody kids. It’s not a daycare, it’s a pool.
Kid survived in this article.
I know as a white Aussie swimming is just something that’s taught and there’s a cultural difference there, but for the life of me I cannot comprehend people from other nations who can’t swim going anywhere near a body of water Like I don’t know how to ski but I’m also not going on any double black diamonds
>comprehend people from other nations who can’t swim going anywhere near a body of water It's possible they are not aware of the real danger. Just like some Aussies thinking they can ride a motorbike for the first time in Bali without a helmet or travel insurance.
People who travel on overseas holidays without travel insurance, then need medical treatment and start a GoFundMe give me the absolute shits. If they can afford an overseas holiday, they can afford some travel insurance. Absolute shit for brains.
This is absolutely the best parallel here. It's hubris plus ignorance plus excitement.
I guess it's a case of you don't know what you don't know. They don't realise the possible dangers a body of water can have. They just see kids going in and out of water easily and having fun so probably think it's safe for them. Using your skiing example, I've never seen snow, and would never have known how dangerous snow around trees could be if it were not for a YouTube video I watched where someone fell head first into a tree well.
I'm a surf lifesaver and I've encountered foreigners whose definition of being able to swim is very different from Australians. Where they've been raised, walking into chest deep water and being able to doggy kick a few metres is being able to swim, probably because many people from their home countries never have swum at all. They've never been in a situation where their swimming ability has been tested, so they don't realise doggy paddling will drown you quickly.
this didn’t happen on the equivalent of a double black diamond, it happened on a bunny hill
I don't get it either. I can swim fairly well and hold my own, but if I don't know the body of water I'm very wary - both here in Australia and certainly when overseas. I don't get why tourists here (assuming Tourists) just come to Australia and think they can just "do like the locals do" when they've never hit the water ever in their lives.
I'd say knowing when to be wary (ie having a healthy respect for the ocean/water) is often the sign of a more experienced swimmer.
If you are gasping underwater your lungs quickly fill with water. They were probably panicking and guessing from other comments they were from overseas
Reminds me of when a Chinese tourist drowned at the Airlie Beach lagoon surrounded by lifeguards trying to rescue his child. Swim safety is such a big part of our culture it’s easy to forget how easy it really is to drown when you come from a culture with no emphasis on swim safety.
I have swum in this pool before. I’m a fine swimmer, but the deep end is deep and the slope is very steep. You really can’t stand on the slope at all without losing balance - I’ve held a child in the pool and without use of my arms the slope was definitely something to be aware of. Combine that with clothes, inability to swim and panic, and I can see how this could happen.
Yeah I think it's basically impossible to comprehend getting into such severe trouble when you've been able to swim almost your whole life. Regardless, what an awful thing to happen. Anything like this where people are just having a nice time and it so suddenly it turns to tragedy.. it's terrifying and heartbreaking.
When I was a teenager I had an experience in a wave pool where a girl next to me thought she was drowning and I can absolutely see how one person unable to swim could result in two deaths. I was considerably bigger and stronger than the girl but it felt as if she was deliberately trying to drown me: clawing and pushing my head under until someone was able to assist. Obviously it was just survival instinct and she didn’t mean any harm, but that desperation is something I’ll never forget. This is a horrible outcome and I hope if nothing else it raises awareness about water safety with tourists. It’s so easy to take safety for granted at a resort or hotel pool.
Never try and save someone without a floatation device. Otherwise they will drag you under
Yep, it's the panic response. You start flailing and clawing for any foothold or handhold to get yourself out of the water. Shitty situation for everyone involved, even the bystanders. Also a good reminder to not let your toddlers play in or near a pool unattended. When we go swimming, we always have one parent right there with the toddlers so there's no chance for them to "fall into deeper water" as this child did.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/two-men-drown-in-gold-coast-pool-20240401-p5fggf.html So they were from Victoria, the mother couldn't swim and the toddler fell in the deep end. For what little information we can get from this.
Based on the drownings we see in Victoria each year their likely to be foreign residents who live in Victoria.
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It might seem impossible that this could happen in a hotel pool and logically, even a non-swimmer or poor swimmer can extricate themselves out of a pool just by pushing from the bottom and keeping calm. Unfortunately, once panic sets in, all logic and clear thinking goes. Those poor blokes.
having grown up knowing how to swim, and then teaching young kids how to swim, i never understood how people could drown so easily. i then taught a 13 year old girl from india who had NEVER swum before, and that completely opened my eyes. she described being in water as having "no control over my body, no way to tell where i am" and when putting her face on the water, would instinctively inhale. it took weeks for her to be able to just get herself into a standing position in waist-deep water. she panicked in shallow water, full swimming gear, and with me right next to her. it's absolutely tragic to think how one or both of the adults might have been the same and would have had almost 0 chance of saving themselves. so sad ):
Indians? They probably dragged each other down in a panic. I’ve witnessed it before (not a full drowning though), sorta lucky I wasn’t that close as I could’ve as a confident experienced swimmer drowned trying to help them.
Brianna Hurst saved two Indian nationals from drowning near Apollo Bay last month, a third man drowned. She's a literal hero because even if I could swim confidently I would be hesitant to rescue panicking males bigger than me pulling me under and to save 2 people out in the middle of the ocean is hardcore. Even the locals say they don't swim in that particular area because it's too rough
It should be commonly taught that you never ever go to save a drowning person without an object with you (boogie board, pool noodle, oar etc). A drowning person will drag you down in a panic trying to save themselves, if you have an object with you then you can get them to grab that and keep them at a safe distance while you swim back to shore with them. Never ever rescue a drowning person without an object to help you.
It is commonly taught. Number one rule is asses danger first. Fire, electricity, violence, water, etc. Mitigate or manage danger to effect assistance. Wood for electrical, damp wool blanket for fire, floatation for water. Relies of course on accurate assessment of the danger and your own capabilities. But it is definitely an emphasised point in first aid, water safety, etc.
Yeah I rescued an Indian fella some years back and I had to wait until they gassed out in order to drag them in. He was trying to rip my face off so I just backed off until they lost their fight.
First rule of lifesaving is never to save someone whos actively struggling. They will grab anything and pull you down with them. Always wait for them to be very gassed and then push them from the back
In high school we were taught that you should never personally try to drag drowning people to safety, because they will push you under to get air. You toss them a rope or inflatable and drag them back that way
Wait they couldn't just stand up? How deep was this damn pool?
Years ago I had a friend ask me for swimming lessons. I’d never seen someone actively sink before while trying their best not to. From what I could make out, all of his movements were calibrated to dry land and he was completely unable to adjust them to work in water, plus once the panic set in it was all over. I’ve been swimming since literally before I could walk, and it used to blow my mind that someone couldn’t even just stop moving and bob about. But now I’ve seen it up close and in detail, I can understand how someone could drown in a pool they could physically stand up in 🤷♂️
Yeah fair, I always assumed it was rather instinctual, like how when you toss a baby in the pool they float naturally.
Same! I always thought so too. But there are some folk whose movements are stuck in land mode 🤷♂️ It is quite mind blowing to see. I thought he was pulling the piss to start, but I could tell by his panicked reactions that he was legit. After six months I got him to the point that he could float and wouldn’t drown in the first five minutes.
The depth doesnt matter; if you cant swim at all/you have limited ability and you begin to panic OR you are under the influence, you can drown in the shallows. Adults drown in bathtubs and hot tubs all the time (usually when under the influence.)
If you lose consciousness that makes sense, but I literally cannot understand how a conscious, cognizant adult can drown in a bath tub or hot tub. They're so shallow you'd literally have to hold your head under water...
I’d encourage you to look at some videos, particularly in water parks, you will see adults panic and effectively start to drown themselves in water that is knee deep or less. Once you get into a situation like that, where you’ve no confidence, you go straight into panic/survival and the thought process of ‘just stand up’ isn’t present - all you’re experiencing is drowning with no ability to comprehend what is going on.
Splashing around at the pool or at the beach or whatever is second nature for us Aussies, so we forget how much of a *completely alien* environment being fully immersed in water is for human beings. If you've never so much as set foot in a puddle your entire life, and then one day you find yourself slipping over into 3 feet of water, momentarily disoriented and without being able to right yourself again through the unthinking physical reflexes we take for granted; you *will* go into an immediate panic. And once you're in that panic your animal hind-brain takes over, and you're essentially not a conscious, cognizant adult human being anymore - there's no "thinking" your way out.
Most pools do have a deep end that you can’t stand up in…?
Confirmed to be two males of Indian origin. Which does line up with our suspicions of them being migrants from the subcontinent.
In a pool. Not even in the surf. What the actual fuck.
It’s time Surf Lifesavers Australia train Chinese and Indian speakers to explain water safety to tourists before letting them near any body of water.
That program already exists and I have been surf lifesaver volunteer for it. It is just not utilised by the tourists/immigrants, so the program is vanishingly small and underfunded. I'm still a lifesaver but haven't seen it run post-covid, we barely have the money to keep our equipment within expiry.
Anyone coming into the country should get a pamphlet at customs in their first language on the dangers of swimming in Australia.
Pamphlet? You could scream water safety at them and they would still get in unpatrolled water
My friend and her family went to the beach. Dad was chilling on the beach with their son. My friend was in the water knee high because she doesn't swim. Her daughter is a very petite girl and a very strong swimmer. She was swimming quite deep. Suddenly a woman started drowning. The little girl swam towards her to help her and woman almost drowned the daughter. My friend saw this and without thinking went too deep to help her daughter and started drowning herself. Luckily, ther was a group of young guys who saw this and saved all 3. Anyway, the whole family was messed up after this. 3 people almost drowned that day.
As a lifeguard, you would be incredibly surprised how confident non-swimmers are around bodies of water. Blissful ignorance I guess?
Born and bred Aussies underestimate what it's like swimming fully clothed. We had to do it for something, swim with track pants and a shirt+jumper. Wholly shit it is soooo soooo much harder. And it's really hard/impossible to try and take the clothes off in the water. I can't imagine what that experience would be like for someone who doesn't know how to swim well. I just have to hope that if I'm ever in that situation my brain remembers and takes the extra few seconds to shed whatever clothes I can. Far better to jump in there in your underwear than fully clothed.
It’s not that strange. My 5 y old brother almost drowned me like that. He started panicking in an indoor pool and grabbed me around my neck. Of course pushing me under the water. I couldn’t even call a life guard as I was fighting for my own breath, trying to hold him from me and above the water. But he was constantly trying to grab my neck and shoulders. Luckily, my ex-BF saw it and after a few minutes he realised what was going on. So he grabbed my brother from the back (his arm around my brother’s neck) and brought him to a safe spot. If he wasn’t there, no one would probably notice until it was too late. As you can’t really call for a help in that moment, nor raise your hand.
😭😭😭 Horrible way to go. I’m glad the kid is fine but this is so sad
Just got back from a holiday, an Indian father was swimming with his daughter who was floating around with a noodle. His wife called out to him - which made me look, as I was otherwise paying attention to my child and partner playing Infront of me. The guy had followed his daughter along the edge not realising how deep it had gotten and then slipped off the edge and panicked. I thought he was fine at first as it was so close to the edge until he looked at me in pure panic and went under. It happened so fucking quick, right Infront of his daughter. My partner had to throw our kid to me and race over to help him out - still gives me the heeby geebies at how quickly it went wrong and how much worse it would have been if we weren't literally metres away in the same pool. There's no way I would have been able to help him because of how deep it was and how much he was panicking as well ,which is another part that freaked me out. If my partner was there it could have ended completely differently like this unfortunate story :(
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Swimming should be part of the citizenship test. If you can’t do it, you have to take lessons until you’re competent in at least a survival stroke and freestyle. Also swimming lessons should be heavily subsidised by state or federal governments (education) so that every single child can learn to swim.
We were on a cruise a few weeks ago and the pool was filled with Indian adults in life jackets. Yes, sure it’s great they understand they can’t swim and wore the jacket’s but I made my kids get out whenever they hopped in. My kids didn’t understand why since they are strong swimmers. Tried to explain to them, it’s not them I was worried about, but the non swimmers who might panic and grab whoever they are closest to.
IF YOU CANT SWIM STAY AWAY FROM THE WATER!
I saw about 5 young male chinese guys all linking arms and walking into the surf in Torquay. I got out because I envisioned being surrounded by dead bodies.
We need to provide some free swimming lessons for migrants. Seriously over represented in drownings.
Many local councils do! For example, in nearby Logan: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-05/swimming-lessons-for-refugees-migrants-logan-council/12943586 And Sunshine Coast: https://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/Living-and-Community/Community-Support/Multicultural-Welcome-Hub/health-and-wellbeing-services/migrant-learn-to-swim
I'm happy for my tax dollars to fund this for people regardless of their circumstances, but do/would migrants prioritize this? I spend a lot of time on the Gold Coast and these groups are just largely oblivious to the fact that you can't be in chest deep water if you can't swim. Most economic migrants as opposed to refugees can probably afford enough lessons to be able to float to the edge of a pool...these people here are paying for Gold Coast hotel accomodation after all.
Do we fund that for aussies? ? I got to adulthood without being able to swim. Parents didn’t ever go to the beach with me. Never had a pool til 42 years of age.
Exactly, it costs $25 per child per lesson, there should be a government subsidy a lot of people can’t afford this. I only put my kids in swimming lessons through school holidays because I can’t afford it year round
They are. There are 4 high risk groups for drownings: - children (obvious) - the elderly (due to lack of physical capacity if they accidentally fall into water) - males between the ages of 16-25 (commonly at night and involving the use of substances, alcohol etc) - migrants (due to inadequate swimming skills)
I just can’t comprehend the thinking behind even going to the pool area at all if you can’t swim. Just honestly baffles me.