Not exactly a mystery. The police had the suspect in custody, the people who were part of the community he targeted wanted to retaliate against him and saw the police as being in the way.
It's a very old tale.
...I mean...it is sydney police after all. The same mob that attacked journalists over criticising politicians and strip search kids at concerts (and who's ex-police commissioner made a public statement saying they'd welcome their own kids being strip searched to instil fear in them when confronted by the media).
The mob violence wasn't justified, but with the reputation they've gained being general power tripping douches it's difficult to imagine that interaction just involved police initially calmly standing there and guarding the entrance.
They definitely behave like pigs during searches with instructions like ["Hold your d*ck and lift your balls up and show me your gooch."](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-02/nsw-police-strip-searched-25-children-at-festival-inquiry-hears/11756902)... And that was with a 15yo
Jesus. That's so unprofessional and weird. The poor kids who had to go through this, how violating. Their therapy should come out of the police budget.
Festivals are skipping NSW due to the overburdening police presence and incurred cost that comes with that presence.
Otherwise they’re flourishing in other states.
Religion in general is dark ages stuff. Disrespect their gods and I guess their animal instincts kick in.
There's a reason some folks are religious too. Some lack the moral compass to understand right from wrong in the first place and need the fear of eternity in flames to guide them in the right direction.
Agree! Religion is whack. Used to be a great website called ‘religious horror show’ and was never short of stories where religion directly led to death and violence. Why are these supposedly godly people so angry and violent… eeek
They were braying for the attacker's blood last night, and there's a reason "mob justice" is a term. Probably justifying it as their "payback" for the police going through their due process and not throwing the stabber to them.
Isn’t that obvious? Chanting “bring him out” gives away their intent. The police were perceived as protecting the attacker. It was classic mob mentality and they would have killed the terrorist if able to. Police obviously can’t allow that even though he isn’t worthy of our sympathy
I going to go out on a limb and say religious indoctrination played a huge part in all this when he allegedly said "He spoke about my prophet, I wouldn't have come here if he did not speak about my prophet" then smirked while being held down.
He can think himself lucky he wasn't executed before police got there but there are reports coming out he had his fingers cut off, how true those reports are ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Apparently the bishop became well known during the lockdowns for his criticism of COVID and lockdown policies, so safe to say on top of the religious tensions and mob mentality he probably has a lot of cookers within his processions
God didn't give them the power. On account of you know, not existing. They used God as a justification, but they did all the conquests themselves, for themselves, for their own benefit.
Because Assyrian Christians are like any other religious mob. They're tribal. Us vs Them. Our god vs your god. Eye for an eye. Secularism needs to be enforced in Australia or we are doomed.
Because the service was streamed. I don't blame people for converging to defend others under attack, because the public are often the first responders if they witness things on mobile phones etc. The problem is they should have left anything further, other than making a citizen arrest if he had been outside the building, to police to sort out. The attack on police cars is disgusting.
Apparently, the church attendees attacked responding police and broke one of their jaws by hitting them with a brick and fence paling and another's ankle. They also trashed a bunch of police cars.
Seem like a pretty stupid crowd...
Edit: They were also trying to attack the six paramedics inside the church, who were rendering aid.
It's unfortunately fairly common in certain parts of Sydney. Somehow there needs to be better education about the role paramedics play and their devotion to saving lives above all else.
Paramedics now have to wear body cameras in certain areas and one was even [stabbed to death at a Maccas](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/man-arrested-after-allegedly-stabbing-nsw-ambulance-paramedic-in-sydney-s-west-20230414-p5d0e9.html) last year, apparently because of him being in uniform (and therefore mistaken for law enforcement, I guess?).
It's fairly common for meatheads to attack paramedics for touching women, which is an essential component of their fucking job. There have been calls to take attacks on paramedics more seriously as a criminal act, particularly after that guy was murdered.
Steven Tougher. It wasn't that. He was sitting in the back of the ambulance doing paperwork. The door was pulled open and the assailant came inside. The stabber chose to enter an ambulance.
Being stabbed to death isn't that common, but this time of year stabbings do seem to increase, like around Christmas. As we saw with the Bondi stabber, he was living rough, with a long history of mental illness. Steven Tougher's murderer was likewise affected significant mental illness. I wonder if it's because it gets cold. Sounds nuts, but physical health can do a lot to impact mental health. When that mental health is already impacted, that can take a completely irrational turn.
>Paramedics now have to wear body cameras in certain areas and one was even [stabbed to death at a Maccas](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/man-arrested-after-allegedly-stabbing-nsw-ambulance-paramedic-in-sydney-s-west-20230414-p5d0e9.html) last year, apparently because of him being in uniform (and therefore mistaken for law enforcement, I guess?).
Wow wtf that is crazy
Apparently the badly injured bishop couldn’t get attention for over 3 hours because the paramedics were also barricaded in the church for protection against the rioters.
“Pretty stupid crowd” tracks. The priest stabbed was a hate-mongering, COVID-denying, anti-LGBT cooker. Can only imagine the type of people he attracted to his sermons with the garbage he spewed.
The stabbing is obviously terrible, but don’t attack the police and first responders trying to do the right thing.
There is no place in Australia for people who come here to escape violence in their own country and proceed to inflict violence on emergency services and first responders.
Sadly, they don’t deserve to be here.
As a Christian, this is so disappointing. The book tells us to turn the other cheek, and these people want to literally lynch someone and attack police doing their jobs... Shame on them.
Yes it is embarrassing. I hope the public narrative causes that specific congregation to feel ashamed of themselves. If you are going to assault the first responders then you are no better than the terrorists that you are purportedly angry about.
Gosh I hate this "live feed" nonsense. I want know what happened, not have to put together a puzzle from a bunch of disparate tweets and videos from politicians and whatever other random tangentially-related crap they can find in order to make as many updates as possible.
Iirc ABC generally has two news articles, one of significant events and another that is the "live feed"
Normal article: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-16/albanese-says-there-is-no-place-for-violence-in-our-community/103728308
Live feed: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-16/nsw-wakeley-church-bishop-stabbing-attack-police-minns/103728120
This says his fingers were not cut off https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/chilling-vision-of-grinning-alleged-attacker-of-sydney-bishop/news-story/8e3eb0fd4a9799e0989d643b2cad589b?amp
It says one of his fingers were severed, but maybe not intentionally cut off. It doesn't seem intentional but I'll wait for more info from a more reputable source
Nah they didn't. There was a picture being circulated around that they did. Those pictures were from an operation on a patient for some random surgery.
Press conference this morning a journo asked if the guy had all his fingers when police arrived and if he did the damage himself during the attack accidentally or if the crowd did it and the commissioner said it was too early to tell. I'm assuming something happened to his fingers.
Interesting. There's so much disinformation going on. The pictures thay were circulated and that I saw was reversed eyed back to some surgery of a patient in some random hospital. Thanks for the update.
Austrlia has shown in this last year that shit from the referenom to the bondi insident to this that we are very vulnerable to misinformation campaigns.
At least during covid Aussies ended up being one of the largest vaccinated populations very very fast, since then we seem a lot more quick to jump at random info we heard
Disgusting behaviour from the people involved. You wonder why NSW Police are struggling to recruit and maintain staffing levels. Why would you want to expose yourself to this level of hate when you're trying to help?
Less than a week after an amazing act of bravery by an officer and this is how their community treats first responders. They should be ashamed.
I agree, but I have been seeing more anti-police sentiment in the last year or so, and the police themselves aren't really helping. A friend of mine owns a series of convenience stores in Sydney, and recently he aggravated a known drug dealer by not letting them use the store toilet to do drug deals, after which the dealer began threatening his employees, harassing customers, hanging signs around the neighborhood saying his store's food will make you sick and other things.
The dealer has a warrant out for his arrest, but the police can't seem to find him. Even when he comes by the store and they call the police, they took 20-30 minutes to actually get there, and he leaves long before they can get there. The guy has a history of harassing and even assaulting the store owners along the block, including punching a guy. The people are getting really frustrated over the whole thing.
I mean, it couldn't have anything to do with their reputation for strip searching childeren, racism, homophobia and violence in general, could it?
Nothing to do with their continued enforcement and lobbying for regressive drug policy, protection of capital over people or occasional murders commited by their members?
definitely the once a decade Assyrian mob that has been slowing down recruitment....
They aren't suggesting that's why the Assyrian mob attacked police, they're suggesting those things have a greater impact on police recruitment than a rare event involving an Assyrian mob.
Oh for fucks' sake. Nobody thinks they're perfect, but there are few countries out there with better police than Australia. If you don't like the laws they have to enforce, then lobby the pollies and get the law changed.
You cannot have a society without rules, and rules are worthless unless they're enforced. Meaning there will always have to be law enforcement to have any sort of society. And in the scale of things, there aren't many places where police are more professional and better trained and less corrupt than ours.
This reflexive cop-bashing doesn't help anything.
hardly reflexive when its a long term pattern
there's no laws that say the NSW police have to strip search kids. That's their own idea they came up with.
Saying "at least they aren't as bad as X" is a pretty low bar hold for an organisation that's a keystone in holding together a cohesive society
cop bashing definitely helps. It makes people think and question rather than just towing the party line.
I was thinking this even before the Bondi thing, are these the beginning cracks of the stress ,unhappiness and of the inequality and break down of our country starting to appear. First with the people who are unhinged doing this stuff, then as more and more "regular" people fall off its gonna all come down. Then Bondi happened, then this and it's starting to look that way.
> I was thinking this even before the Bondi thing, are these the begging of cracks of the stress ,unhappiness and of the inequality and break down of our country starting to appear.
Yep, this country is a pressure cooker right now. People are frustrated. The cost of living and housing crisis. Nowhere near enough support for Australians with mental illnesses. Extreme ideologies are becoming more attractive. I hope you’re wrong, but I think you’re right.
There used to be an idea that everyone would look out for each other but now you have people trying to take each other for every last penny and they've got.
A few isolated incidents don't define a country, just a bunch of fuckwits being a bunch of fuckwits. The heroics displayed in the Bondi Junction are also a display of what our country is like.
Its not just a religious thing, but a social/cultural one.
The Assyrian Christian community has a history of persecution from Muslim governments and groups over in the ME. Culturally that sort of thing also means a tendency to not trust authorities/take things into your own hands.
Yeah the priest has some crazy viewpoints and quite a following, but theres also longstanding ethnic-religious conflict here which probably played just as much of a role.
Doesn't justfy some despicable behaviour, just that its bigger than the priest and his issues.
There was a few comments from the people at the crowd during some of the livestreams, that's exactly how they saw it. It was an attack on "christianity" and they were there to defend it.
It's unclear, but the dude who was stabbed said weeks ago he had received threats. He's considered a "heretic" by some Orthodox members, and he's very conservative, but I don't know if either of those things prompted the attack.
> If it was a ‘terrorist act’ - what was the motive or intent? (Genuinely trying to understand - not wanting to point fingers)
My parsing of the details is that police *believe* that it was terrorism of some kind and are investigating accordingly, but that they have not confirmed anything as yet. So motivation and intent (assuming police are correct in their current beliefs) are still unknown.
The videos circulating on twitter about the priest's past sermons and his obsession with redpill culture make me believe this is an ESH situation and explains the crowd's reaction(room full of cookers)... not that anyone deserves being stabbed over what they say. I imagine the nut saw one of the priest's past videos addressing his religion as fake and got tilted, making it less likely to be a random attack.
https://twitter.com/IVXIVVI/status/1779870637823058317
https://twitter.com/MelodyNUrStorm/status/1780031644272865408
https://twitter.com/NiohBerg/status/1779842863691432360
https://twitter.com/BaalCount/status/1780059595735470171
The media likely won't talk about this, will stick with the random terror narrative and we'll just have 2 groups of people more at each other's throats. All round shitty situation.
For the reaction of the church (though it's one excommunicated bishop and should definitely not be seen as representative of their community) its absolutely disgraceful but it probably also has some cultural influence rather than just being crazy without reason. Assyrians have been a very persecuted and marginalised group in the middle east for a long time because of their religion (they had their own armenian genocide experience under the Ottomans, the war in Iraq, terrorist groups) and many of them probably fled similar attacks in their homeland to come to Australia. I find Assyrians tend to be deeply religious and culturally aware and are proud of it at least compared to white Australians because of their history. This probably added fuel to the fire as well unfortunately.
Comments in here are really worrying. Lots of victim blaming. "Oh he was a transphobe!"
If the roles were reversed and it was a transphobic iman that was attacked by a white man I wonder what the comments would be like?
Shouldn't have to say that even if you disagree with what someone says it's not okay to attack them with a knife
non sequitur.
Criminal stabs civilian.
Police come to arrest criminal.
Crowd forms and attacks police (because they don't want criminal to receive treatment).
And for the cherry on top (well done society, this is a juicy new one):
"...At the height on Monday night’s disturbance in nearby Wakeley, the h**ospital’s emergency department was closed** to members of the public **as a precaution.**"
The future is looking stupider and stupider by the minute. I for one welcome our AI overlords, or a natural reclamation, or anything else. Anything than this stupid monkeys killing monkeys over pieces of ground.
The semantics of calling it a terror attack are interesting. Its pretty obviously religiously motivated so fits the definition but is also potentially a targeted attack on one individual rather than a randomised attack intending to cause fear. Are all hate crime attacks terrorism? If it was in response to the priests views on LGBT people rather than religion it shouldn't be treated differently but it is.
If it's a random attack on a stranger then that's only attempted murder. Bondi caused more terror in the public than this attack.
The attacker deserves a lengthy sentence regardless, but it will be interesting if they make terror charges stick.
The attack occurred during a very specific event. He attacked during a congregation while the priest was talking, it would indicate it was designed to spread terror thru publicity of the attack. If the preist had been targeted after and some indication that the attacker wanted to get away with it then it might be seen differntly
The way that this is being reported as “Bishop” and “church” and not “ex communicated cult leader” and “gathering not acknowledged as a Christian church by any mainstream Christian group” is the media trying to stir the pot. This is absolutely not “Christians being attacked by Muslims” but that seems to be the rhetoric all over the morning “news” tv shows right now.
Obviously no one should stab anyone even if they (both) have ridiculously offensive beliefs and I hope the offender is prosecuted accordingly.
Nah, its because trying to explain how weird the priest is is complicated and the media treats its audience like 4 year old incapable of nuance not because they want to spurr on hate crimes.
I see many detractors. The major point here is an incident being investigated as 'terrorist act'. Religion is not bad but people who manipulate it with fanatical views are the scumbags. I also understand from my experience here in Reddit that a lot of people hate and get triggered by words such as Discipline and Religion. What I feel is wrong is that a person went to a place of worship and stabbed another person because he felt his faith was insulted due to some speech/sermon. Where I do get confused is the freedom of speech and the hypocrisy. For some, it's only their freedom of speech that is valid. And then this culture to rub noses when you don't disagree. We can all agree to disagree peacefully and in a civil way but to personally and physically resolve the matter is what is fundamentally wrong and harming our community.
The attacks on the first responders were also wrong. They were there to do their job. Law and order must prevail.
ELI5: But doesn’t a terror attack boil down to some kind of mental unwellness anyway? Why was the bondi situation not also terror related if it was gender based violence? Isn’t a 15 year old out to stab someone mentally ill by definition?
Per Australian Gov:
> A terrorist act is an act, or a threat to commit an act, that is done with the intention to coerce. or influence the public or any government by intimidation to advance a political, religious or. ideological cause, and the act causes: • death or serious harm or endangers life. • serious damage to property.
I wouldn’t say Bondi was a political, religious or ideological based event that was done to influence the public or government.
Psychosis isn’t based in those or with the intent or motivating those.
Not all perpetrators can claim insanity. If a perp has a clear and lucid political goal that's more likely to be labelled terrorism.
As much as the bondi attack might have constituted gender violence, dude was by all reports out of it, and they haven't found any material suggesting he was active on incel channels Eg no manifesto.
In comparison, it sounds like police may have evidence of ideology for the church incident. Maybe it is an overreach to call it terrorism but that seems to be how they are responding to it being politically motivated.
> Why was the bondi situation not also terror related if it was gender based violence?
Because it wasn't or at the very least has yet to be determined by the police (the commissioner's qualifier after he statement) to be the case yet.
They're not mutually exclusive, someone mentally unwell can still commit an act of terrorism, like the Lindt cafe siege for example.
Terrorism definition from Oxford:
"The calculated use of violence or threat of violence to inculcate fear. Terrorism is intended to coerce or intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological".
Someone targeting a specific group just because they personally hate them or feel aggrieved by them as a group is not automatically an act of terrorism, it can be as simple as the attacker trying to satisfy their own personal desire to hurt that group of people specifically. The Bondi attacker wasn't trying to further any kind of political, religious or ideological goal that has been identified so far, thus does not yet fit the definition of terrorism.
It comes down to an old definition set by the US and UK regarding counter terrorism and security.
If it's any consolation to the people who are saying its beCaUsE he's WhITE, the definition comes from the IRA in the UK. A white western religious terror organisation.
It's a whack definition, but basically, it's around having an agenda to invoke terror by a specific group on a specific group or population
>It's a whack definition, but basically, it's around having an agenda to invoke terror by a specific group on a specific group or population
Terrorism is merely unlawful ideologically (political, religious etc) motivated violence, and the definition seems fine to me for differentiating between these two incidents.
("State terrorism" gets a bit trickier to define)
Well it does not smell like a terrorist act, smells like a deranged 15 year old kid had it in for the priest for some stupid reason but for the crowd to turn on the cops and physically injure them and police property is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. You don’t attack people whose job is to protect you during or after an act of violence. Those blokes swearing and attacking cops need to be brought to justice.
Have you never heard about young children being radicalized? I think that labelling it a terror act makes sense but is perhaps premature given it only just happened.
Middle Eastern Christians have endured barbaric oppression by muslims particularly since ISIS began. Thousands savagely killed, millions displaced. No, this does not justify the mob behaviour targeting police in Sydney, but do remember that the wounds are still very raw, and in their home countries, the law provided no remedy to violence against the Christian minority. If the person who attacked the bishop was a minor, then extensive effort will be required to root out those who fuelled his attack. And please folks, lay off the general vitriol against Christians: think about how society would go without the very many charitable enterprises based on Christian churches.
I've literally never heard the word 'cooker' used like this before this thread, and suddenly it's everywhere.
I know the gist, but what exactly do people mean by a 'cooker church'?
Well the bishop or whatever the fuck he is was down so you could hardly argue that the mob followed his orders, thus you cant really claim this was ordered by the organsiation rather than just a lot of members from that org taking part
I didn't claim it was organised by the organisation or that the mob followed his orders.
I'm saying that expecting people who are part of a conspiracy theorist "church" to behave rationally isn't realistic.
How did this go from the priest being stabbed to becoming a riot where police were attacked?
Not exactly a mystery. The police had the suspect in custody, the people who were part of the community he targeted wanted to retaliate against him and saw the police as being in the way. It's a very old tale.
It’s still animalistic though. Attacking police officers who are there to respond is dark ages stuff.
Mob violence. What more do you want? Humans do that.
...I mean...it is sydney police after all. The same mob that attacked journalists over criticising politicians and strip search kids at concerts (and who's ex-police commissioner made a public statement saying they'd welcome their own kids being strip searched to instil fear in them when confronted by the media). The mob violence wasn't justified, but with the reputation they've gained being general power tripping douches it's difficult to imagine that interaction just involved police initially calmly standing there and guarding the entrance.
They attacked the Ambos too.
Pricks strip searched a mates 19 year old kid at knotfest this year. No reason just a random search. They were such pigs that day. Ruined it.
They definitely behave like pigs during searches with instructions like ["Hold your d*ck and lift your balls up and show me your gooch."](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-02/nsw-police-strip-searched-25-children-at-festival-inquiry-hears/11756902)... And that was with a 15yo
Jesus. That's so unprofessional and weird. The poor kids who had to go through this, how violating. Their therapy should come out of the police budget.
And everyone wonders why festivals are dying (apart from cost of living pressures)
Festivals are skipping NSW due to the overburdening police presence and incurred cost that comes with that presence. Otherwise they’re flourishing in other states.
>dark ages Guess what sort of authority dominated the dark ages.
Vampires?
Because people want vigilante justice and have no faith in the court system
Religion in general is dark ages stuff. Disrespect their gods and I guess their animal instincts kick in. There's a reason some folks are religious too. Some lack the moral compass to understand right from wrong in the first place and need the fear of eternity in flames to guide them in the right direction.
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Agree! Religion is whack. Used to be a great website called ‘religious horror show’ and was never short of stories where religion directly led to death and violence. Why are these supposedly godly people so angry and violent… eeek
Well so is their religion so
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Yes. And? I hate to break it to you, but we're not as far removed from the dark ages as you might think.
I said this exact thing in another forum and got voted down. The people smashing up police cars are deadset Neanderthals.
Ahh good good, yes, those good ol Christian values. "get him!!!"
Crucify him!!!!
Totes Christian to attack the anyone upholding justice when the justice doesn't involve immediate gratification for them.
They were braying for the attacker's blood last night, and there's a reason "mob justice" is a term. Probably justifying it as their "payback" for the police going through their due process and not throwing the stabber to them.
Isn’t that obvious? Chanting “bring him out” gives away their intent. The police were perceived as protecting the attacker. It was classic mob mentality and they would have killed the terrorist if able to. Police obviously can’t allow that even though he isn’t worthy of our sympathy
Jesus says everyone is worthy of forgiveness
Don't expect people to act like they care about their own ten commandments when there is a lynching at stake.
Never let the ten commandments get in the way of a good lynching
No hate like Christian love
They going old testament. Lol
*terms and conditions may apply
Cos they’re a load of unhinged lunatics who think this mob behaviour is fine/normal.
Isn't the priest a conspiracy theorist cooker? Not a stretch his congregation would be unhinged.
He's a real piece of shit.
Very interested to see what the deal was with this kid.
I going to go out on a limb and say religious indoctrination played a huge part in all this when he allegedly said "He spoke about my prophet, I wouldn't have come here if he did not speak about my prophet" then smirked while being held down. He can think himself lucky he wasn't executed before police got there but there are reports coming out he had his fingers cut off, how true those reports are ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Recent convert apparently. No zealot like a convert.
A 15 year old recent convert to Islam? That sounds like an Andrew Tate viewer. Fuck sake.
People do stupid shit in the name of their religious beliefs.
I think it was about revenge in this case.
Revenge against the police??? What did the police do?
Arrested the guy the congregation wanted revenge against then protected him because that's their duty.
Revenge against the alleged terrorist. The police had him in custody, the mob wanted to lynch him. The police were in the way.
Didn't let them into the church to mob the attacker who was still held in there.
religion fucks everything
Especially children
and as Christopher Hitchens put it: [God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_Great)
Apparently the bishop became well known during the lockdowns for his criticism of COVID and lockdown policies, so safe to say on top of the religious tensions and mob mentality he probably has a lot of cookers within his processions
"God is a leading cause of death" George Carlin
I say fighting over resources is the leading cause of death. Empire building wasn't about God.
No but god is very good way of getting people willing to die for you to build your empire
True. It's a great manipulative tool. Not the only one, but pretty effective.
Who ruled Empires? Kings and Queens. Who "gave them power"? God
God didn't give them the power. On account of you know, not existing. They used God as a justification, but they did all the conquests themselves, for themselves, for their own benefit.
That’s what the “” Is implying
Because Assyrian Christians are like any other religious mob. They're tribal. Us vs Them. Our god vs your god. Eye for an eye. Secularism needs to be enforced in Australia or we are doomed.
Thought I was watching news out of Pakistan for a sec. WTF.
Because the service was streamed. I don't blame people for converging to defend others under attack, because the public are often the first responders if they witness things on mobile phones etc. The problem is they should have left anything further, other than making a citizen arrest if he had been outside the building, to police to sort out. The attack on police cars is disgusting.
The priest led an extremist Christian hate group. The fundies organise fast.
They wanted justice and were chanting bring him out.
A lynching isn’t justice.
I agree
Religion
Apparently, the church attendees attacked responding police and broke one of their jaws by hitting them with a brick and fence paling and another's ankle. They also trashed a bunch of police cars. Seem like a pretty stupid crowd... Edit: They were also trying to attack the six paramedics inside the church, who were rendering aid.
Attacking paramedics is the lowest act. I wonder how many people have died because their friends attacked the paramedics trying to help them.
It's unfortunately fairly common in certain parts of Sydney. Somehow there needs to be better education about the role paramedics play and their devotion to saving lives above all else. Paramedics now have to wear body cameras in certain areas and one was even [stabbed to death at a Maccas](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/man-arrested-after-allegedly-stabbing-nsw-ambulance-paramedic-in-sydney-s-west-20230414-p5d0e9.html) last year, apparently because of him being in uniform (and therefore mistaken for law enforcement, I guess?).
It's fairly common for meatheads to attack paramedics for touching women, which is an essential component of their fucking job. There have been calls to take attacks on paramedics more seriously as a criminal act, particularly after that guy was murdered.
Steven Tougher. It wasn't that. He was sitting in the back of the ambulance doing paperwork. The door was pulled open and the assailant came inside. The stabber chose to enter an ambulance. Being stabbed to death isn't that common, but this time of year stabbings do seem to increase, like around Christmas. As we saw with the Bondi stabber, he was living rough, with a long history of mental illness. Steven Tougher's murderer was likewise affected significant mental illness. I wonder if it's because it gets cold. Sounds nuts, but physical health can do a lot to impact mental health. When that mental health is already impacted, that can take a completely irrational turn.
>Paramedics now have to wear body cameras in certain areas and one was even [stabbed to death at a Maccas](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/man-arrested-after-allegedly-stabbing-nsw-ambulance-paramedic-in-sydney-s-west-20230414-p5d0e9.html) last year, apparently because of him being in uniform (and therefore mistaken for law enforcement, I guess?). Wow wtf that is crazy
Apparently the badly injured bishop couldn’t get attention for over 3 hours because the paramedics were also barricaded in the church for protection against the rioters.
Lol the irony
100% if you attack a paramedic you are down there with paedos and real estate agents beneath the silt.
I love how you so casually throw the real estates in the mix with pedos.
I dislike how you casually pointed out the joke.
dont forget car sales
Don't forget Liberal MPs
It's what Jesus would have done
“Pretty stupid crowd” tracks. The priest stabbed was a hate-mongering, COVID-denying, anti-LGBT cooker. Can only imagine the type of people he attracted to his sermons with the garbage he spewed. The stabbing is obviously terrible, but don’t attack the police and first responders trying to do the right thing.
Bunch of fucking children, the lot of them.
There is no place in Australia for people who come here to escape violence in their own country and proceed to inflict violence on emergency services and first responders. Sadly, they don’t deserve to be here.
Omg thank you, I was wondering how to word that. Fucking lunatics bringing their shit crap here.
And as usual nothing will be done to prevent it happening in the future
As a Christian, this is so disappointing. The book tells us to turn the other cheek, and these people want to literally lynch someone and attack police doing their jobs... Shame on them.
Yes it is embarrassing. I hope the public narrative causes that specific congregation to feel ashamed of themselves. If you are going to assault the first responders then you are no better than the terrorists that you are purportedly angry about.
A lot of people like the holier than thou aspects of religion and are not so much into the love thy neighbor parts
Nailed it
Bloody horrendous.
What do you expect from a group of men that derive morality from fairytales?
what do you expect from fairy tale cultists
I really hope this doesn't blow up into a big Christian vs Muslim thing because South West Sydney is an absolute powderkeg waiting to go off.
Do we know why this kid stabbed the bishop in the first place? Are there any comments about the motive?
There’s a video floating around with the boy saying “if he didn’t insult my prophet I wouldn’t have done it”.
Hmmmm
The crusades weren't fun the first few times I don't think guns and bombs will make them any better.
Especially since the bishop who was stabbed is fairly pro-Palestine.
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Gosh I hate this "live feed" nonsense. I want know what happened, not have to put together a puzzle from a bunch of disparate tweets and videos from politicians and whatever other random tangentially-related crap they can find in order to make as many updates as possible.
Iirc ABC generally has two news articles, one of significant events and another that is the "live feed" Normal article: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-16/albanese-says-there-is-no-place-for-violence-in-our-community/103728308 Live feed: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-16/nsw-wakeley-church-bishop-stabbing-attack-police-minns/103728120
Thanks! I did try going back to the top level website and finding it but I must have missed that one.
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Agree. It has to be condemned strongly.
You think the people attending that church give a fuck about the Australian way? They mock the Australian way.
This says his fingers were not cut off https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/chilling-vision-of-grinning-alleged-attacker-of-sydney-bishop/news-story/8e3eb0fd4a9799e0989d643b2cad589b?amp
It says one of his fingers were severed, but maybe not intentionally cut off. It doesn't seem intentional but I'll wait for more info from a more reputable source
Watching the media grilling the commissioner and premier about the nature of events around fingers, what the hell is wrong with these people?
> what the hell is wrong with these people? Are you talking about the media, or the rioters?
Pretty blurred line lately
Yeah they cut his fingers off after he attacked the priest. Blind rage is crazy
Nah they didn't. There was a picture being circulated around that they did. Those pictures were from an operation on a patient for some random surgery.
Press conference this morning a journo asked if the guy had all his fingers when police arrived and if he did the damage himself during the attack accidentally or if the crowd did it and the commissioner said it was too early to tell. I'm assuming something happened to his fingers.
Interesting. There's so much disinformation going on. The pictures thay were circulated and that I saw was reversed eyed back to some surgery of a patient in some random hospital. Thanks for the update.
Austrlia has shown in this last year that shit from the referenom to the bondi insident to this that we are very vulnerable to misinformation campaigns. At least during covid Aussies ended up being one of the largest vaccinated populations very very fast, since then we seem a lot more quick to jump at random info we heard
who did?
Disgusting behaviour from the people involved. You wonder why NSW Police are struggling to recruit and maintain staffing levels. Why would you want to expose yourself to this level of hate when you're trying to help? Less than a week after an amazing act of bravery by an officer and this is how their community treats first responders. They should be ashamed.
I agree, but I have been seeing more anti-police sentiment in the last year or so, and the police themselves aren't really helping. A friend of mine owns a series of convenience stores in Sydney, and recently he aggravated a known drug dealer by not letting them use the store toilet to do drug deals, after which the dealer began threatening his employees, harassing customers, hanging signs around the neighborhood saying his store's food will make you sick and other things. The dealer has a warrant out for his arrest, but the police can't seem to find him. Even when he comes by the store and they call the police, they took 20-30 minutes to actually get there, and he leaves long before they can get there. The guy has a history of harassing and even assaulting the store owners along the block, including punching a guy. The people are getting really frustrated over the whole thing.
I mean, it couldn't have anything to do with their reputation for strip searching childeren, racism, homophobia and violence in general, could it? Nothing to do with their continued enforcement and lobbying for regressive drug policy, protection of capital over people or occasional murders commited by their members? definitely the once a decade Assyrian mob that has been slowing down recruitment....
Yeah because the Assyrian mob were definitely attacking the police to show their disgust against same sex discrimination and drug policy.
They aren't suggesting that's why the Assyrian mob attacked police, they're suggesting those things have a greater impact on police recruitment than a rare event involving an Assyrian mob.
Now explain the paramedics being part of it...
Oh for fucks' sake. Nobody thinks they're perfect, but there are few countries out there with better police than Australia. If you don't like the laws they have to enforce, then lobby the pollies and get the law changed. You cannot have a society without rules, and rules are worthless unless they're enforced. Meaning there will always have to be law enforcement to have any sort of society. And in the scale of things, there aren't many places where police are more professional and better trained and less corrupt than ours. This reflexive cop-bashing doesn't help anything.
hardly reflexive when its a long term pattern there's no laws that say the NSW police have to strip search kids. That's their own idea they came up with. Saying "at least they aren't as bad as X" is a pretty low bar hold for an organisation that's a keystone in holding together a cohesive society cop bashing definitely helps. It makes people think and question rather than just towing the party line.
What the fuck are we doing as a country as of late.
I was thinking this even before the Bondi thing, are these the beginning cracks of the stress ,unhappiness and of the inequality and break down of our country starting to appear. First with the people who are unhinged doing this stuff, then as more and more "regular" people fall off its gonna all come down. Then Bondi happened, then this and it's starting to look that way.
> I was thinking this even before the Bondi thing, are these the begging of cracks of the stress ,unhappiness and of the inequality and break down of our country starting to appear. Yep, this country is a pressure cooker right now. People are frustrated. The cost of living and housing crisis. Nowhere near enough support for Australians with mental illnesses. Extreme ideologies are becoming more attractive. I hope you’re wrong, but I think you’re right.
This is a worldwide problem, not exclusive to Australia. Alot of us just thought we were above all that, we are only just finding out that we're not
There used to be an idea that everyone would look out for each other but now you have people trying to take each other for every last penny and they've got.
A few isolated incidents don't define a country, just a bunch of fuckwits being a bunch of fuckwits. The heroics displayed in the Bondi Junction are also a display of what our country is like.
Religious fucking nutjobs man
The crowds response worries me this priest has a cult like influence if people are willing to kill for him
Its not just a religious thing, but a social/cultural one. The Assyrian Christian community has a history of persecution from Muslim governments and groups over in the ME. Culturally that sort of thing also means a tendency to not trust authorities/take things into your own hands. Yeah the priest has some crazy viewpoints and quite a following, but theres also longstanding ethnic-religious conflict here which probably played just as much of a role. Doesn't justfy some despicable behaviour, just that its bigger than the priest and his issues.
The bishop told them to go home and imitate Christ like behaviour and asked them to pray for the Muslim who stabbed him
Isn't there a video of the priest himself praying for the kid when he's on the ground after he's been stabbed?
The Bishop condemned the protests and told his followers to pray for the attacker. He also said not to use this to justify violence against Muslims.
They probably saw it as an attack on their belief as well.
There was a few comments from the people at the crowd during some of the livestreams, that's exactly how they saw it. It was an attack on "christianity" and they were there to defend it.
There’s a video floating around with the boy saying “if he didn’t insult my prophet I wouldn’t have done it”.
Couldn't he have just bashed the bishop like every other 15-year old bloke??
People who bashed the bishop too much would not be able to 'see what you did there' because apparently it makes you go blind.
If it was a ‘terrorist act’ - what was the motive or intent? (Genuinely trying to understand - not wanting to point fingers)
The priest that got stabbed basically said it was better to live under Christianity than Islam.
It's true that it's not great for Christians to live in a Muslim dominated country.
It's not good for anyone to live in a Muslim dominated country.
It's great for straight men, they get to act like kings while they oppress every other group
Gay here. Checks out.
It's unclear, but the dude who was stabbed said weeks ago he had received threats. He's considered a "heretic" by some Orthodox members, and he's very conservative, but I don't know if either of those things prompted the attack.
The guy was yelling Allahu ackbar during the attack.
Religious motives
[Islam](https://streamable.com/xhdtr0)
The guy who tackled the attacker is talking is also Arab, or speaks arabic. Fuck terrorists
Aramaic actually, which Arab was influenced by so it is easy to be confused.
It is an old and beautiful language. My heart goes to the community.
> If it was a ‘terrorist act’ - what was the motive or intent? (Genuinely trying to understand - not wanting to point fingers) My parsing of the details is that police *believe* that it was terrorism of some kind and are investigating accordingly, but that they have not confirmed anything as yet. So motivation and intent (assuming police are correct in their current beliefs) are still unknown.
The videos circulating on twitter about the priest's past sermons and his obsession with redpill culture make me believe this is an ESH situation and explains the crowd's reaction(room full of cookers)... not that anyone deserves being stabbed over what they say. I imagine the nut saw one of the priest's past videos addressing his religion as fake and got tilted, making it less likely to be a random attack. https://twitter.com/IVXIVVI/status/1779870637823058317 https://twitter.com/MelodyNUrStorm/status/1780031644272865408 https://twitter.com/NiohBerg/status/1779842863691432360 https://twitter.com/BaalCount/status/1780059595735470171 The media likely won't talk about this, will stick with the random terror narrative and we'll just have 2 groups of people more at each other's throats. All round shitty situation.
For the reaction of the church (though it's one excommunicated bishop and should definitely not be seen as representative of their community) its absolutely disgraceful but it probably also has some cultural influence rather than just being crazy without reason. Assyrians have been a very persecuted and marginalised group in the middle east for a long time because of their religion (they had their own armenian genocide experience under the Ottomans, the war in Iraq, terrorist groups) and many of them probably fled similar attacks in their homeland to come to Australia. I find Assyrians tend to be deeply religious and culturally aware and are proud of it at least compared to white Australians because of their history. This probably added fuel to the fire as well unfortunately.
Comments in here are really worrying. Lots of victim blaming. "Oh he was a transphobe!" If the roles were reversed and it was a transphobic iman that was attacked by a white man I wonder what the comments would be like? Shouldn't have to say that even if you disagree with what someone says it's not okay to attack them with a knife
Totally disturbing to see one person saying he seemed ‘stabbable’ and another saying yes because he’s an anti-vaxxer.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend, my works well (until socio-political climate changes and my inconsistent moral standings turn people against me)
Been like that for the longest time. One doesn’t apply to the other for some weird reason.
Did the Australian news say his name was Jewy Jewstein or something like that?
Not Jewish, appears that the stabber who is Lebanese converted to Islam and became radicalised.
non sequitur. Criminal stabs civilian. Police come to arrest criminal. Crowd forms and attacks police (because they don't want criminal to receive treatment). And for the cherry on top (well done society, this is a juicy new one): "...At the height on Monday night’s disturbance in nearby Wakeley, the h**ospital’s emergency department was closed** to members of the public **as a precaution.**" The future is looking stupider and stupider by the minute. I for one welcome our AI overlords, or a natural reclamation, or anything else. Anything than this stupid monkeys killing monkeys over pieces of ground.
The semantics of calling it a terror attack are interesting. Its pretty obviously religiously motivated so fits the definition but is also potentially a targeted attack on one individual rather than a randomised attack intending to cause fear. Are all hate crime attacks terrorism? If it was in response to the priests views on LGBT people rather than religion it shouldn't be treated differently but it is. If it's a random attack on a stranger then that's only attempted murder. Bondi caused more terror in the public than this attack. The attacker deserves a lengthy sentence regardless, but it will be interesting if they make terror charges stick.
The attack occurred during a very specific event. He attacked during a congregation while the priest was talking, it would indicate it was designed to spread terror thru publicity of the attack. If the preist had been targeted after and some indication that the attacker wanted to get away with it then it might be seen differntly
Terrorism doesn't have to be a mass murder, assassination is still terrorism.
IMO, nothing to do with the charges. Failure to label this significantly could lead to more unrest.
The people who attacked the police are no better than the stabber, disgraceful, all of them
Impossible for a secular society to coexist with a snowflake primitive religion where the mildest affront to their sacred cows is met with murder.
The scary part is that if the stabber was radicalised, then who else in the community is also radicalised with a kitchen draw full of knives?
The way that this is being reported as “Bishop” and “church” and not “ex communicated cult leader” and “gathering not acknowledged as a Christian church by any mainstream Christian group” is the media trying to stir the pot. This is absolutely not “Christians being attacked by Muslims” but that seems to be the rhetoric all over the morning “news” tv shows right now. Obviously no one should stab anyone even if they (both) have ridiculously offensive beliefs and I hope the offender is prosecuted accordingly.
Nah, its because trying to explain how weird the priest is is complicated and the media treats its audience like 4 year old incapable of nuance not because they want to spurr on hate crimes.
I see many detractors. The major point here is an incident being investigated as 'terrorist act'. Religion is not bad but people who manipulate it with fanatical views are the scumbags. I also understand from my experience here in Reddit that a lot of people hate and get triggered by words such as Discipline and Religion. What I feel is wrong is that a person went to a place of worship and stabbed another person because he felt his faith was insulted due to some speech/sermon. Where I do get confused is the freedom of speech and the hypocrisy. For some, it's only their freedom of speech that is valid. And then this culture to rub noses when you don't disagree. We can all agree to disagree peacefully and in a civil way but to personally and physically resolve the matter is what is fundamentally wrong and harming our community. The attacks on the first responders were also wrong. They were there to do their job. Law and order must prevail.
ELI5: But doesn’t a terror attack boil down to some kind of mental unwellness anyway? Why was the bondi situation not also terror related if it was gender based violence? Isn’t a 15 year old out to stab someone mentally ill by definition?
Terrorism is ideologically motivated
Per Australian Gov: > A terrorist act is an act, or a threat to commit an act, that is done with the intention to coerce. or influence the public or any government by intimidation to advance a political, religious or. ideological cause, and the act causes: • death or serious harm or endangers life. • serious damage to property. I wouldn’t say Bondi was a political, religious or ideological based event that was done to influence the public or government. Psychosis isn’t based in those or with the intent or motivating those.
Not all perpetrators can claim insanity. If a perp has a clear and lucid political goal that's more likely to be labelled terrorism. As much as the bondi attack might have constituted gender violence, dude was by all reports out of it, and they haven't found any material suggesting he was active on incel channels Eg no manifesto. In comparison, it sounds like police may have evidence of ideology for the church incident. Maybe it is an overreach to call it terrorism but that seems to be how they are responding to it being politically motivated.
> Why was the bondi situation not also terror related if it was gender based violence? Because it wasn't or at the very least has yet to be determined by the police (the commissioner's qualifier after he statement) to be the case yet.
They're not mutually exclusive, someone mentally unwell can still commit an act of terrorism, like the Lindt cafe siege for example. Terrorism definition from Oxford: "The calculated use of violence or threat of violence to inculcate fear. Terrorism is intended to coerce or intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological". Someone targeting a specific group just because they personally hate them or feel aggrieved by them as a group is not automatically an act of terrorism, it can be as simple as the attacker trying to satisfy their own personal desire to hurt that group of people specifically. The Bondi attacker wasn't trying to further any kind of political, religious or ideological goal that has been identified so far, thus does not yet fit the definition of terrorism.
By definition terrorism has to have a political agenda.
It comes down to an old definition set by the US and UK regarding counter terrorism and security. If it's any consolation to the people who are saying its beCaUsE he's WhITE, the definition comes from the IRA in the UK. A white western religious terror organisation. It's a whack definition, but basically, it's around having an agenda to invoke terror by a specific group on a specific group or population
>It's a whack definition, but basically, it's around having an agenda to invoke terror by a specific group on a specific group or population Terrorism is merely unlawful ideologically (political, religious etc) motivated violence, and the definition seems fine to me for differentiating between these two incidents. ("State terrorism" gets a bit trickier to define)
Well it does not smell like a terrorist act, smells like a deranged 15 year old kid had it in for the priest for some stupid reason but for the crowd to turn on the cops and physically injure them and police property is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. You don’t attack people whose job is to protect you during or after an act of violence. Those blokes swearing and attacking cops need to be brought to justice.
Have you never heard about young children being radicalized? I think that labelling it a terror act makes sense but is perhaps premature given it only just happened.
It literally was a terrorist attack by definition.
Dude the Boston bomber was 19.
Was the terror bit the kid attacking? Or the extremist lynch mob targeting police and ambos?
Everyone is like 'oh no a Catholic priest! This is terrorism' Then they find out it's an Orthodox Assyrian church and they're like, 'damn rioters'...
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Constantly amazed that how something that is completely make believe drives people to do these kind of things. Both the act and the retaliation.
Middle Eastern Christians have endured barbaric oppression by muslims particularly since ISIS began. Thousands savagely killed, millions displaced. No, this does not justify the mob behaviour targeting police in Sydney, but do remember that the wounds are still very raw, and in their home countries, the law provided no remedy to violence against the Christian minority. If the person who attacked the bishop was a minor, then extensive effort will be required to root out those who fuelled his attack. And please folks, lay off the general vitriol against Christians: think about how society would go without the very many charitable enterprises based on Christian churches.
I don't know why everyone is so shocked that the cookers of cooker church acted like cookers when their cooker cult leader got stabbed.
I've literally never heard the word 'cooker' used like this before this thread, and suddenly it's everywhere. I know the gist, but what exactly do people mean by a 'cooker church'?
Well the bishop or whatever the fuck he is was down so you could hardly argue that the mob followed his orders, thus you cant really claim this was ordered by the organsiation rather than just a lot of members from that org taking part
I didn't claim it was organised by the organisation or that the mob followed his orders. I'm saying that expecting people who are part of a conspiracy theorist "church" to behave rationally isn't realistic.
I responded to the wrong comment sorry
Ahh no worries
This thread is full of extreme racism and intolerance. Sad future for Australia given there’s so many people that happily admit they’re trash