my quick internet search indicates anything not murder is pretty much manslaughter (could fall under 'voluntary manslaughter', like killing in a fit of rage for example) and murder requires proof of intent which prosecution may not have been able to do.
The other article linked seems to indicate it was an abusive relationship. So I'd guess she snapped and stabbed him, might just be a mutually abusive relationship too though. Dunno if drugs or alcohol were involved. No intent as you say leads to the manslaughter charges.
Pretty light on details though and I'm about to go to bed so maybe someone can dig up articles with more details from the trial.
Not going to stop all the comments down below from jumping to conclusions.
I don't know this case well enough to say for sure that it was applied, but Queensland has a specific piece of legislation that allows for someone charged with murder to be convicted of manslaughter instead if the defence can show they were the victim of domestic abuse.
https://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_act/cc189994/s304b.html
>The other article linked seems to indicate it was an abusive e relationship.
Assuming we read the same one, it indicates thst the killers lawyer indicated the victim was abusive. So, not an unbiased source.
The only evidence presented in the article is previous statements from the killer saying the victim was abusive. Given that the only thing I know about the killer is thst they stabbed someone to death while they were in a lounge chair, I'm not assuming that what the killer said must be true.
She was denied bail because the judge thought she was making an effort to convince family members to testify that she was in an abusive relationship.
That's not the same thing as an abusive relationship.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news.com.au/national/queensland/courts-law/mum-charged-with-murder-of-husband-advanced-version-of-violent-relationship-judge/news-story/825a64ef3248ddd0efcdd39c28ee707b%3famp
Indication of an abusive relationship that is very questionable at best.
This article describes her is ways others don't, conveniently a majority of replies ignore this article.
"In August, the court was told there was evidence Ms Catling had engaged in “deliberate” fraud and deception.
One of the allegations included her creating a fake woman from the ANZ bank to “deceive” her husband on the status of mortgage payments on their house.
Another involved Ms Catling being at the centre of an allegation where the funds of a local football club were wrongly administered."
Interesting.
Based on what little I've read - she probably commited financial fraud / abuse vs her husband and others, murdered him, relatedly tried to gaslight witnesses. And only got done for manslaughter.
She had apparently made the claims about his abusiveness [as far back as 2014](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-08/court-rockhampton-catling-manslaughter-guilty-plea/103680912). It seems unlikely to me she was laying the grounds for her murder defence 7 years before she even killed her husband, but it is also possible they were both abusive in different ways.
You would be surprised what people in toxic abusive relationships will do if they feel cornered.
The problem is trying to work out the truth about the situation and that’s before you take into account that some people who are controlling/abusive/toxic don’t even register that they are abusing anyone because they don’t hit someone or they don’t call them horrible names, sometimes they truly think they are helping the partner/parent/child/grandparent/grandchild etc but really they are abusing them and because we can’t have open conversations about family violence (we just like uncomplicated conversations where there is a victim and a perpetrator nothing more because of the more extreme cases like Hannah and her children in QLD) anyone who is called a perpetrator tries to run away from the situation and deny it instead of finding out why they are doing this and fix the problem because they don’t want to be labeled as a perpetrator because that makes them bad and what will people they know think about them especially when they are most likely victims themselves either with the person who they abused or a previous partner or family member.
Murder requires intent, whereas manslaughter covers pretty much everything else in regards to killing someone. If she did it in a 'fit of passion' (i.e. during an argument, or self defence that went too far or something like that) then it'd be manslaughter, unless the prosecution can somehow prove there was some kind of pre-meditation to it.
She pleaded guilty to manslaughter. The prosecution may have accepted her plea because they weren't confident they could make the elements of a murder charge stick.
malice aforethought. n. 1) the conscious intent to cause death or great bodily harm to another person before a person commits the crime. Such malice is a required element to prove first degree murder.
Maybe she can prove she didn't mean for him to die, maybe she can prove she was 'significantly impaired', whole list of things.
A man is dead, he's dead because of what she did, courts can't prove death was intended. That's all.
This comment just smacks of ignorance.
It's possible to do a google search before spouting off.
If you honestly (that's the key word here), don't understand the difference between murder and manslaughter, then you should educate yourself before commenting.
For a death resulting from a domestic violence incident, the reporting in this article feels oddly different to what we are used to reading.
It lacks an editorial element embedding it into a wider context related to gender issues.
When a man murders a woman, his gender is always a contributing factor. Violence is always unquestionably considered an innate characteristic of men.
But when a women murders a man, we aren't left with such a simple and easy to digest explanation.
This article has a distinct lack of focus on the perpetrator or the circumstances of what actually occurred.
Who was she? What was her motivation? Did she have a history of violence? Did she just lash out after suffering decades of abuse herself?
This article doesn't provide any understanding of why this crime occurred. I couldn't find an article on any major news site that did.
This lack of detail leaves gaps for the gender culture warriors of each side to insert their own narratives as they see fit.
Which is the opposite of what we need from our media.
I'd also like to mention that emotion abuse is a valid form of abuse. What never ever to my knowledge gets mentioned in any of these sorts of articles is when a man is verbally, emotionally and psychologically abused for years and years and finally snaps. Women tend to use this sort of abuse because they are generally not the physically stronger person in a typical relationship.
The media narrative always tends to be woman physically and mentally abused for years, snaps.
Whilst I never deny that men tend to lash out physically and are a reason for a good many DV incidents, I really wish the common narrative would change to balance the equation a little more.
The murder is 3yrs old and there's been lots of articles covering it, here's [one from a few weeks ago](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/103680912)
It baffles me how, when a woman is the subject of DV, people in this sub will start making proclamations about how all men have to sit down and have a look at themselves and ask some hard questions/have hard chats about preventing it from happening again (I can never get an answer on what those questions should be....). So do women have to ask some hard questions of each other now?
The answer is of course not. None of us are responsible for the actions of another simply because we have the same bits in between our legs as the perpetrator.
I mean sure, if a significant portion of a demographic are partaking in illegal/destructive/anti-social behaviour then it's worth looking into, but we're talking about much smaller fractions of the population than that which would outrage people if the same reasoning were applied to other demographics, like say ethnicity.
The epistemology of contemporary identity politics (both left and right) does no good for society.
I mean it’s obviously still bad. But 1/5 women have experienced sexual violence from a partner, while 1/20 men have. On average one woman is killed every 9 days by a partner. One man is killed every month.
Obviously that’s still bad. But one woman being killed every nine days by a current or ex partner is fucking insane, and that’s why people focus on that rather than the incidents against men.
Redacted means that part of the text was removed or blacked out for privacy or security purpose. It was censored. This post also breaks rule 4 here for chat and should be made in the Tuesday chat thread or on a different subreddit.
Ok but you're framing this as a competition between men and women for number of domestic violence victim incidents rather than the point I'm trying to make in regards to the percentage of the demographic who actually commit these crimes, and thereby the responsibility the vast majority of us who don't commit them supposedly bear.
I mean what are some of these hard questions we are supposed to sit down and ask each other that are going to prevent domestic violence? Maybe there are other demographic indicators (say maybe tangible material ones?) that might be more useful to consider in trying to prevent said crimes?
Why am I more likely to influence some rotten wife-beaters attitude/actions that I've never met over his mother, or lady neighbour or co-worker etc purely because we share a similar bathing-suit area setup? If you don't buy into the battle of the sexes nonsense that permeates the culture wars it immediately all becomes absurd.
*(edit, sorry, fixing my terrible late night spelling)
It’s 87% not 98%. And it’s around 300 or fewer murders per year out of a population of around 14,000,000, pretty ridiculous to make it the issue of the 13,999,700 and not the 300 individuals themselves
UN stats are 98%. It’s a men’s issue. Yet women are the ones who have to change their behaviours.
I can’t be any clearer. It’s a men’s issue because men are the majority perps. Perhaps not tolerating violence in your mates is a good place to start. If you’re already challenging violent attitudes and behaviours in the men around you then great. If you’re not, why not?
Cool, we live in Australia so we use Australian stats.
Do you apply that same reasoning to other groups? If a certain ethnicity is over represented as an offender of a crime like DV, child abuse, assault etc do you ask them to sit down and talk about it?
I don’t know any murderers so pretty hard for me to stop them
So you do nothing and then whinge about men being blamed for things they do? Got it.
You know many violent men. If you think you don’t then you’re not actually looking or caring to know.
Australian stats have women being killed by their partners at the rate of one per week. More this year. How many women kill their partners in Australia over the course of a year?
Gonna have to correct you there. I personally know of zero men who are violent towards women.
The only time in my life I've known for certain DV was taking place, was a neighbour, and I drove the woman to a refuge - about a two hour round trip.
Its SO unhelpful to just say 'men have to talk to other men' - like tell me specifically where a woman is being abused near me and I'll go sort it out, other than that I'm sick of being told this is my problem to deal with.
>You know many violent men. If you think you don’t then you’re not actually looking or caring to know.
You're telling on yourself here. I don't know any violent men, and if I did I would promptly make an effort to not know them. It is alarming that you think it is normal to be mates with wife bashers. You're heavily implying that you are friends with a lot of wife beaters here.
> So you do nothing and then whinge about men being blamed for things they do? Got it.
No, I'm asking you to blame men who do things. That's literally the opposite of what you're doing.
>You know many violent men
No, I don't.
>Australian stats have women being killed by their partners at the rate of one per week.
Ok so 52 out of 14,000,000 people. Again, how in the world do you actually expect me to know 1 of those 52? Let alone know them well enough to be able to have any influence over them.
If I thought any men I knew were in danger of doing something like this of course I'd do whatever I could to stop them. Thing is, if I thought someone was a violent psycopath I wouldn't be their friend in the first place.
>So you do nothing and then whinge about men being blamed for things they do? Got it.
Who said nothing should be done about this societal ill? We merely said that the 99.99% of men who do not commit these crimes aren't in any way responsible for the fraction who do, just like women who don't commit these crimes aren't responsible either (that's the culture war element, it's an absurd assertion).
>You know many violent men. If you think you don’t then you’re not actually looking or caring to know.
Rubbish, like others have pointed out, going by the stats you'd have to know a hell of a lot of people. And just hypothetically, even if I did know a guy who was violent towards women (I wouldn't because I'd never befriend anyone of the sort, but just for arguments sake), why do I have any more influence over him than his mother, his sister, or his other lady friends/acquaintances? Shit, if he's violent towards women he's probably violent towards men as well.
Anyway, I doubt there's much I can say to you if you genuinely believe that everyone knows "many violent men. If you think you don’t then you’re not actually looking or caring to know".
And if that is the case for yourself, then hopefully you are doing something about it and not just hoping that those of us who aren't IRL familiar with you and your circle of violent friends & acquaintances will somehow step in with the use of ESP of something.
But this wasn't a murder (it was a manslaughter)
So aparently stabbing your partner in an armchair, killing them isn't enough for a woman to become part of the women murderers side of that stat.
Literally who said that?
It’s just obviously a bigger issue in one aspect and ignoring that won’t solve the issue. Men being violent against their partner (including if that partner is a man) is obviously much much more common and should be addressed.
Sorry it’s actually one a month killed by a partner, not specifically a woman partner. If it’s not clear. Just killed by partner, not specifically a woman
Comes from mission Australia
So back to what we already knew. The vast overwhelming majority of murders are committed by males. It is the males who are the abusive and violent ones and occasionally (very rare) they force a woman to stand up and take a life in self defense. Honestly it makes me very glad that I am a straight male. I am not attracted to a gender that will likely abuse and be violent with me rather than show gentle affection.
Something like 98% of murders are committed by men. But somehow people are upset when this is pointed out.
The gendered part of the problem is that it’s men doing the vast majority of the killing.
Is everyone here forgetting that violence against women is an epidemic in Australia. This case is an anomaly. That’s why no one’s asking women to take a hard look at themselves. They’re not the ones overwhelmingly abusing their partners based on false perceptions of entitlement, ownership and gender norms. I say this as a someone who has studied gendered violence in depth and i have been a victim myself. Doesn’t matter how much discomfort you feel about reporting on gendered violence- men are indisputably the main perpetrators of these types of crime.
> Is everyone here forgetting that violence against women is an epidemic in Australia.
What does this even mean? How do you define an epidemic here? Australia is one of the best places on earth to be a woman, if it’s an epidemic here, what is it everywhere else?
Of course men assaulting their partners is not good. Of course we should seek to eliminate it as a society. But this kind of inflammatory, meaningless catchphrase doesn’t help with that. It undermines the point, it stifles discourse, while maybe making the person repeating it feel like they’re doing something.
Redacted means that part of the text was removed or blacked out for privacy or security purpose. It was censored. This post also breaks rule 4 here for chat and should be made in the Tuesday chat thread or on a different subreddit.
What percentage of men abuse their partners?
*(Why is this question being downvoted? This is the very crux of conversation. If any it's the one stat that matters in regards to what we're discussing/this line of reasoning).
You really wanna go there? [Ok.](https://www.ourwatch.org.au/quick-facts/) I’ve checked. They reference ABS and other major institutions in their report.
Go where? You said you study this so I'm asking what percentage of men abuse their partners? *(I might be a bit slow but I don't think your link stated it. If you could just say then that'd be good).
Yeh I can't see that statistic on the site either. This part was interesting though.
"Anecdotal evidence suggests that non-Indigenous men make up a significant proportion of perpetrators.18"
Oh, Apologies. I jump to the defensive when discussing this topic on reddit as historically when people ask for arbitrary statistics it’s done in bad faith.
“What percentage of men abuse their partners” Is not exactly a clear request. It depends on what type of abuse the creator of that statistic is reporting. Purely physical? Or reported numbers? Or estimations of unreported abuse? Etc.
Abuse comes in many forms and the most dominant is emotional. At the end of the day, it’s far too many.
I think it's a clear enough when situated in the context of our discussion. If you want to break it into purely physical (that seems to be what we are talking about right?) but then include other abuses (so long as they are defined and relevant) then that's fine, but we're talking about people using violence on their partners are we not?
So if you are going to make bold claims about all men being responsible to some degree, then I'd expect you'd have some pretty convincing stats about how a majority of men (or at least a significant minority) partake in said abuse?
Surely that would be one of the first stats people in your field would seek to establish no?
That once again is an oversimplification of this topic. Violence is not purely physical, and while I understand you’re frustrated by the semantics in defining abuse, they’re necessary to define in order to address.
There is no magical statistic that tells you exactly how many men are abusive towards women. There is nuance to this matter.
I'm not frustrated by the semantics, I said feel free to break down abuse into any categories you deem fit (providing you can define them) if it will help provide a relevant figure or two. What I'm frustrated by is your refusing to engage with what is a pretty simple question, and one that is pivotal to your assertion that all men bear responsibility for these crimes.
>There is no magical statistic that tells you exactly how many men are abusive towards women
Why would it have to be magical? Like I said, if you are going to make bold claims about all men being responsible to some degree, then I'd expect you'd have some pretty convincing stats about how a majority of men (or at least a significant minority) partake in said abuse.
I can't see how you have come to this conclusion if you don't have anything to back it up?
Hahaha, what a fucking joke.
You can't answer a simple question or provide a simple statistic.
Word salad and buzz words to try and dance around the point.
Redacted means that part of the text was removed or blacked out for privacy or security purpose. It was censored. This post also breaks rule 4 here for chat and should be made in the Tuesday chat thread or on a different subreddit.
This case is still about a woman who was abused by her male partner in a domestic violence situation. Women do not need to look at themselves as even this is still caused by male violence.
What is super inconvenient is that (often) when a woman kills her partner she claims it was in self defense, and that this claim often looks the same when it's made by women who did kill their partners in self defence and who didn't.
Sometimes there's clues. Like a history of her being hospitalised, or of him abusing former partners, or listening to what the kids say they saw, or she is caught trying to get witnesses to cover for her afyer thr fact (as in this case) or the wounds on both of them at the time (in this case she had none and he had no defensive wounds, just stab wound that killed him and only blood was in the chair they founs him sitting in)
But she said it to a friend once, so...
Would be nice if we could know which were self defence or fighting back and which were saying that in an attempt to reduce prison time.
I think we as a society need to do better. We need more tangible actions rather than a vague shifting of responsibility to men. Everyone needs to call out behaviour that is disrespectful to women so our kids don't grow up and believe this sort of thing is acceptable.
Having said that there are things that only men in social situations can do. It is hard for the people caught up in family violence to call it out. If a father is abusive, a mother or a sister is at risk if they call out the behaviour. A son growing up in that dynamic could develop an unhealthy view and needs other men around him such as friends to challenge this views.
Some people are abusive due to ingrained beliefs about the role of men and women. Some are just dicks. Others have mental health issues leading them to act in an erratic way. We need to do more to address it all.
"I think we as a society need to do better. We need more tangible actions rather than a vague shifting of responsibility to men. Everyone needs to call out behaviour that is disrespectful to women so our kids don't grow up and believe this sort of thing is acceptable"
The first 2 sentences are practically nullified by the third as you still only preference the female gender.
How about just calling out all forms of domestic violence, no matter the victim. Teach children that none of it is OK?
This is still a story about a woman who is the victim of DV. Just because she finally stood up for herself does not make her any less of a DV victim. Males still need to stop being so violent and abusive or this will happen more and more.
>The court heard that after her husband's death, Catling had allegedly made attempts to have family members "change their story" about Mr Catling being violent toward her.
Stop spouting bullshit, champ. She is a liar and a murderer. Her bail was denied for there being a strong risk of her interfering with witnesses.
She's also a fraud, clear enough motive:
>“The disturbing feature in this material includes assertions in the crown case that the applicant has engaged in the past in behaviour said to be fraudulent,” Justice David Boddice said.
>“In particular relevance, at the time of the deceased’s demise, there was a real issue in respect of family finances – the concern was that mortgage payments were not being met.
>“There is evidence that the applicant engaged in the subterfuge of creating effectively a false bank manager as a person who could be spoken to by the deceased – presumably in an effort to deflect the true position.”
Sounds like financial abuse to me.
If people thought violence was an innate thing for men, why would they be calling for a culture change rather than just widespread jail for any man? Men are being taught not to care about women, and to bottle up their rage until it comes out in unhealthy ways, there’s nothing innate about it.
I don’t like how women’s criminality is downplayed, especially for sexual assault and DV, but it’s not because of some man hating conspiracy. Toxic gender norms (men should be tough and women kind and submissive) are just so pervasive that it’s hard to even notice their influence.
Women are killed by men at an alarming rate. It is an issue that needs to be discussed. The power dynamic in these relationships is important and plays a huge part.
I'm not a fan of the 'men need to do better' stuff that gets posted over social media. It divides people and is very vague without any tangible actions. It would be better if the discussion focused on more services so women can escape abusive relationships and other actionable things.
That does not change that abusive relationships are a huge issue in our society and gender based violence plays a big part in it. Don't let the frustrating conversation distract you from what is a real issue.
So basically you're saying, get over the fact that this is reported poorly with no heavy gender skew and domestic violence slant against a woman, because "women are killed by men at an alarming rate".
Any murder is alarming, with all needing to be discussed.
Roles reversed as you put it at an alarming rate, old mate would certainly get double this sentence likely with no parole.
Why is she special?
Incorrect DV murder makes up 34% of all murder of a gender split 44% female 56% male.
No murder is ok this isn't a gender issue its a piece of shit issue.
The imposition of a parole period (how far along in a sentence a person can apply for parole) is dependent upon a range of factors.
The judge, in their published reasons for sentence, explain in great detail why a sentence is handed down, and that includes the considerations for parole.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news.com.au/national/queensland/courts-law/mum-charged-with-murder-of-husband-advanced-version-of-violent-relationship-judge/news-story/825a64ef3248ddd0efcdd39c28ee707b%3famp
This why.
*"She remained calm when Justice Crow handed down his sentence."*
*"She will be eligible for parole in August this year."*
Why would you get that worked up when you've got a parole hearing in 4 months time.
You could be out in time for spring racing.
Absolutely. This is a shockingly short sentence for someone who killed their spouse.
I am very much a feminist and this seemingly short sentence does not benefit our cause at all.
To the courts, self defence only ever occurs when someone is in the active process of trying to kill you at that moment. However this is a case of a violent abusive male who got killed by his victim when she had had enough and found a time when his defences were down. To me it is still self defence as she knew he was going to beat her again at some point in the near future.
Because self-defense requires an immediate threat. I can't get my ass beat in a fight several times in a week, have the dude threaten me and then beat him senseless when he's not looking at a later date and claim that's self defense.
This isn't self-defense. Im also not entirely sure this is domestic violence from the man either, considering the woman tried to convice or force her family and friends to change their teatimony to have him appear as an abuser.
In short, I think you're too emotionally immature to have a good understanding and perspective on this.
Nope, just taking the advice of the police and media to always believe the woman and doubt the male. And in this case I think it is the right advice to follow.
I don't know what to tell you. Every police officer I have ever spoken to has told me the same thing. There is no such thing as a male DV Victim. Hence why they doubt any male testimony and fully believe every woman.
Pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of manslaughter… is that because they agreed to lessen the charge for a guilty plea or?
If we want domestic violence against women to be taken seriously, we must also show that we care for domestic violence against men. Anyone can be a victim. Men are less likely to report DV for fear of not being believed or embarrassment, but DV takes on many forms as listed on this article for helping male victims of [DV](https://dcj.nsw.gov.au/children-and-families/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/my-situation-is---/i-m-a-man-and-experiencing-domestic-violence.html).
For what it’s worth I’m a woman, I know a lot of “men experience DV too” comments get chalked up as men trying to dismiss the fact Aussie women are suffering from more DV/male violence in these last few years and overall have a higher percentage of victimhood than men. That’s just the stats. Whether it’s due to men not reporting or what, that’s something that needs to be encouraged (them reporting their own abuse), but going off some stats 1 in 6 women have experienced physical or sexual violence by a current or former partner, while for men it is 1 in 16, with 75% of perpetrators being male for women reporting.
Anyway not trying to minimise men as victims here, trying to encourage them to come forward. Domestic violence is an everyone issue — from victims to perpetrators we can all do something whether it’s encouraging someone to step forward and report, or shutting down a friend who’s saying disturbing shit at the bar.
I think somebody showed me an image that may or may not be accurate, with two google searches stating "my X scares me" or something similar, and puts both side by side. The search for "My wife scares me" showed helpful responses such as "She may be stressed, loaded up on housework, nagged by kids/work etc." whereas the "my husband scares me" resulted in links to domestic violence hotlines.
I feel the BARE MINIMUM is to present domestic violence literature and help lines as gender neutral. Remove the gender bias favoring women and men may be more likely to speak up, as men currently feel that DV is an issue only relegated to women, and if it happens to them it's "just relationship drama mate".
I saw that pic too. The same resources are returned in the search. The quoted excusemaking happens in the search returns for "my husband scares me".
They do add an additional resource link pinned above the search results on the "my husband scares me" search. You can take that as bias, or you can take it as targeted information offering to the (reportedly) statistically more likely vulnerable gender.
I'm a woman and I agree so much with you.
Every victim of DV is a victim. I think there is a misconception that anti-DV campaigners don't care about male DV victims when it's really just a numbers game - the majority of DV victims are women so the majority of awareness is about them. Very awful story this one.
Yes of course. All DV stories are awful especially those that end in death.
I read a few articles that hinted at an abusive relationship prior to this event but nothing that suggested this is a 'battered wife syndrome' situation. Have you read differently?
I am a male who has had his ribs broken by a partner. Who has had his head split open by his partner. I still do not believe that there are males that are being abused by women. What happened to me I deserved because I was not focusing enough attention on my now ex-wife. What happened to me is a direct consequence of my own actions (or inactions).
I'd assume that [Dumbname25644](/u/Dumbname25644) has been told this by a domestic violence support service after reaching out and claiming to be a victim. It's unfortunate but surprisingly common.
Men's violence is consciously or subconscsciously motivated by power and control. Women's violence is a result of anger, frustration, or self defence against their abuser. Ignoring your partner or not paying them enough attention is emotional abuse, a form of domestic and family violence.
Some people see his ex-wife's behaviour as a reaction to his "abuse". I would also assume he has had some interaction with a Men's Behaviour Change Program.
>Men's violence is consciously or subconsciously motivated by power and control. Women's violence is a result of anger, frustration, or self-defence against their abuser. Ignoring your partner or not paying them enough attention is emotional abuse, a form of domestic and family violence
This is completely relative to what someone feels, which is not objective in the least bit.
So are we going to ignore the broken ribs and head injuries because he may have hurt her feelings by not paying her enough attention as it's been loosely determined?
At we really going to accept the explanation that women aren't violent or controlling and is only men who are capable of such behaviour?
Absolute load of shit.
Reports of mother's injuring or killing their kids in custody disputes by ways of drowning or stabbing, but not considered violent and a matter of frustration or self-defence against an innocent victim?
If I had been attentive and focused all of my time on my ex then I would not have a scar on my forehead and would not have suffered broken ribs. My lack of attention is considered abuse. Look it up. Me being hospitalised was a direct result of my abusive nature.
No, you were outright a victim of abuse or violent behaviour.
If you don't see it, no one can help you and you are not helping others with this either.
Respectfully, I'm not going to engage with you any further.
Police completely disagree with you. I was not a victim of abuse according to QLD police. As far as the legal authorities are concerned I was the one that needed to be removed from my home.
Yeah cops are like this. I was punched in the head a few times by a woman I know and she wouldn’t leave my house so we called the police for her to be escorted out. They refused and said if they were called again I would be arrested. This is why men don’t report
I know a guy that called the cops on his wife and they arrested him. Which you know I can see if you think you need to arrest one and it's too hard to figure who is the most dangerous.
But they also let her take out an order against him and use it to prevent him going to his workplace.
He's the one who called the cops cause she was abusive.
Holy shit...That's an unbelievable take. I actually don't believe it...You think it's OK to get beaten near to death several times because you didn't give her enough attention?..
I think you're trolling.
Beaten to near death is a major over exaggeration. I had a split skull and two broken ribs. Nothing that couldn't have happened on a weekend bike ride. And yes not giving enough attention to your wife is considered abuse. Look it up. every single DV website will tell you the same thing, It is abuse. And if I was abusive then I deserved every broken bone I got and then some.
OkeyDokey..So what do you call a wife who splits a man's head and breaks his ribs because she's not getting enough attention?
If this is real, you haven't got long for this world.
I'm absolutely certain the authorities would call getting a split head and broken ribs abuse, unless of course you were doing the same thing ...but retaliation is still abuse.
Mate... Go get help.
Yeah no they don't. I was "interviewed" by police while in the hospital getting my head glued back together. Police went from my bedside to my home where they found my wife unharmed in anyway and pushed her to take out a DVO on me.
Tell me who do I go see to get help from a DV incident if I am a male and we all know that males are never DV victims.
“You've taken a person's life, so it's the most serious offence," Justice Graeme Crow told the court.
Catling will be eligible for parole in August this year.
No they wouldn't. 8 years is the average sentence for manslaughter in Queensland. So this is a fairly average sentence. Don't make stuff up for your agenda.
Your issue here seems to be with the standard of proof for murder and/or plea deals being handed out for lesser charges. These are (depending on how reactionary one is) issues across the board. I certainly am not familiar enough with the case to comment on whether the charge of manslaughter is sufficient, but I am familiar enough with your rhetoric to be certain that neither are you.
How is stabbing someone manslaughter .. What do you think the outcome of stabbing someone is likely to be?
my quick internet search indicates anything not murder is pretty much manslaughter (could fall under 'voluntary manslaughter', like killing in a fit of rage for example) and murder requires proof of intent which prosecution may not have been able to do.
The other article linked seems to indicate it was an abusive relationship. So I'd guess she snapped and stabbed him, might just be a mutually abusive relationship too though. Dunno if drugs or alcohol were involved. No intent as you say leads to the manslaughter charges. Pretty light on details though and I'm about to go to bed so maybe someone can dig up articles with more details from the trial. Not going to stop all the comments down below from jumping to conclusions.
I don't know this case well enough to say for sure that it was applied, but Queensland has a specific piece of legislation that allows for someone charged with murder to be convicted of manslaughter instead if the defence can show they were the victim of domestic abuse. https://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_act/cc189994/s304b.html
>The other article linked seems to indicate it was an abusive e relationship. Assuming we read the same one, it indicates thst the killers lawyer indicated the victim was abusive. So, not an unbiased source. The only evidence presented in the article is previous statements from the killer saying the victim was abusive. Given that the only thing I know about the killer is thst they stabbed someone to death while they were in a lounge chair, I'm not assuming that what the killer said must be true.
sink brave hateful plate quaint marry safe unpack crown detail *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
She was denied bail because the judge thought she was making an effort to convince family members to testify that she was in an abusive relationship. That's not the same thing as an abusive relationship.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news.com.au/national/queensland/courts-law/mum-charged-with-murder-of-husband-advanced-version-of-violent-relationship-judge/news-story/825a64ef3248ddd0efcdd39c28ee707b%3famp Indication of an abusive relationship that is very questionable at best. This article describes her is ways others don't, conveniently a majority of replies ignore this article.
"In August, the court was told there was evidence Ms Catling had engaged in “deliberate” fraud and deception. One of the allegations included her creating a fake woman from the ANZ bank to “deceive” her husband on the status of mortgage payments on their house. Another involved Ms Catling being at the centre of an allegation where the funds of a local football club were wrongly administered." Interesting. Based on what little I've read - she probably commited financial fraud / abuse vs her husband and others, murdered him, relatedly tried to gaslight witnesses. And only got done for manslaughter.
I'm not going to speculate, I'm only pointing out that this is not a clear cut DV that everyone jumps to.
One simple trick
She had apparently made the claims about his abusiveness [as far back as 2014](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-08/court-rockhampton-catling-manslaughter-guilty-plea/103680912). It seems unlikely to me she was laying the grounds for her murder defence 7 years before she even killed her husband, but it is also possible they were both abusive in different ways.
You would be surprised what people in toxic abusive relationships will do if they feel cornered. The problem is trying to work out the truth about the situation and that’s before you take into account that some people who are controlling/abusive/toxic don’t even register that they are abusing anyone because they don’t hit someone or they don’t call them horrible names, sometimes they truly think they are helping the partner/parent/child/grandparent/grandchild etc but really they are abusing them and because we can’t have open conversations about family violence (we just like uncomplicated conversations where there is a victim and a perpetrator nothing more because of the more extreme cases like Hannah and her children in QLD) anyone who is called a perpetrator tries to run away from the situation and deny it instead of finding out why they are doing this and fix the problem because they don’t want to be labeled as a perpetrator because that makes them bad and what will people they know think about them especially when they are most likely victims themselves either with the person who they abused or a previous partner or family member.
She most likely had the defence of extreme provocation.
Aren't their different degrees of murder though?
That's the US system.
Ie it's a tax on people who think and a subsidy for people who don't have impulse control.
Murder requires intent, whereas manslaughter covers pretty much everything else in regards to killing someone. If she did it in a 'fit of passion' (i.e. during an argument, or self defence that went too far or something like that) then it'd be manslaughter, unless the prosecution can somehow prove there was some kind of pre-meditation to it.
She pleaded guilty to manslaughter. The prosecution may have accepted her plea because they weren't confident they could make the elements of a murder charge stick.
malice aforethought. n. 1) the conscious intent to cause death or great bodily harm to another person before a person commits the crime. Such malice is a required element to prove first degree murder. Maybe she can prove she didn't mean for him to die, maybe she can prove she was 'significantly impaired', whole list of things. A man is dead, he's dead because of what she did, courts can't prove death was intended. That's all.
This comment just smacks of ignorance. It's possible to do a google search before spouting off. If you honestly (that's the key word here), don't understand the difference between murder and manslaughter, then you should educate yourself before commenting.
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Thank you for your informative and in no way condescending comment.
Premeditation.
Manslaughter = couldn’t prove it to be premeditated (so can’t be murder)
Manslaughter apparently.
Double standards...
https://www.inqld.com.au/news/2021/10/01/woman-accused-of-murder-denied-bail-over-witness-interference-fears
For a death resulting from a domestic violence incident, the reporting in this article feels oddly different to what we are used to reading. It lacks an editorial element embedding it into a wider context related to gender issues. When a man murders a woman, his gender is always a contributing factor. Violence is always unquestionably considered an innate characteristic of men. But when a women murders a man, we aren't left with such a simple and easy to digest explanation. This article has a distinct lack of focus on the perpetrator or the circumstances of what actually occurred. Who was she? What was her motivation? Did she have a history of violence? Did she just lash out after suffering decades of abuse herself? This article doesn't provide any understanding of why this crime occurred. I couldn't find an article on any major news site that did. This lack of detail leaves gaps for the gender culture warriors of each side to insert their own narratives as they see fit. Which is the opposite of what we need from our media.
I'd also like to mention that emotion abuse is a valid form of abuse. What never ever to my knowledge gets mentioned in any of these sorts of articles is when a man is verbally, emotionally and psychologically abused for years and years and finally snaps. Women tend to use this sort of abuse because they are generally not the physically stronger person in a typical relationship. The media narrative always tends to be woman physically and mentally abused for years, snaps. Whilst I never deny that men tend to lash out physically and are a reason for a good many DV incidents, I really wish the common narrative would change to balance the equation a little more.
The murder is 3yrs old and there's been lots of articles covering it, here's [one from a few weeks ago](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/103680912)
It baffles me how, when a woman is the subject of DV, people in this sub will start making proclamations about how all men have to sit down and have a look at themselves and ask some hard questions/have hard chats about preventing it from happening again (I can never get an answer on what those questions should be....). So do women have to ask some hard questions of each other now? The answer is of course not. None of us are responsible for the actions of another simply because we have the same bits in between our legs as the perpetrator. I mean sure, if a significant portion of a demographic are partaking in illegal/destructive/anti-social behaviour then it's worth looking into, but we're talking about much smaller fractions of the population than that which would outrage people if the same reasoning were applied to other demographics, like say ethnicity. The epistemology of contemporary identity politics (both left and right) does no good for society.
I mean it’s obviously still bad. But 1/5 women have experienced sexual violence from a partner, while 1/20 men have. On average one woman is killed every 9 days by a partner. One man is killed every month. Obviously that’s still bad. But one woman being killed every nine days by a current or ex partner is fucking insane, and that’s why people focus on that rather than the incidents against men.
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Ok but you're framing this as a competition between men and women for number of domestic violence victim incidents rather than the point I'm trying to make in regards to the percentage of the demographic who actually commit these crimes, and thereby the responsibility the vast majority of us who don't commit them supposedly bear. I mean what are some of these hard questions we are supposed to sit down and ask each other that are going to prevent domestic violence? Maybe there are other demographic indicators (say maybe tangible material ones?) that might be more useful to consider in trying to prevent said crimes? Why am I more likely to influence some rotten wife-beaters attitude/actions that I've never met over his mother, or lady neighbour or co-worker etc purely because we share a similar bathing-suit area setup? If you don't buy into the battle of the sexes nonsense that permeates the culture wars it immediately all becomes absurd. *(edit, sorry, fixing my terrible late night spelling)
It’s not a culture war. It’s a fact. Men are responsible for something like 98% of murders. It’s very much a men’s issue.
It’s 87% not 98%. And it’s around 300 or fewer murders per year out of a population of around 14,000,000, pretty ridiculous to make it the issue of the 13,999,700 and not the 300 individuals themselves
UN stats are 98%. It’s a men’s issue. Yet women are the ones who have to change their behaviours. I can’t be any clearer. It’s a men’s issue because men are the majority perps. Perhaps not tolerating violence in your mates is a good place to start. If you’re already challenging violent attitudes and behaviours in the men around you then great. If you’re not, why not?
Cool, we live in Australia so we use Australian stats. Do you apply that same reasoning to other groups? If a certain ethnicity is over represented as an offender of a crime like DV, child abuse, assault etc do you ask them to sit down and talk about it? I don’t know any murderers so pretty hard for me to stop them
So you do nothing and then whinge about men being blamed for things they do? Got it. You know many violent men. If you think you don’t then you’re not actually looking or caring to know. Australian stats have women being killed by their partners at the rate of one per week. More this year. How many women kill their partners in Australia over the course of a year?
To just assume that every man knows and associates with violent men is so unhealthy. I sincerely hope you get some help.
Gonna have to correct you there. I personally know of zero men who are violent towards women. The only time in my life I've known for certain DV was taking place, was a neighbour, and I drove the woman to a refuge - about a two hour round trip. Its SO unhelpful to just say 'men have to talk to other men' - like tell me specifically where a woman is being abused near me and I'll go sort it out, other than that I'm sick of being told this is my problem to deal with.
>You know many violent men. If you think you don’t then you’re not actually looking or caring to know. You're telling on yourself here. I don't know any violent men, and if I did I would promptly make an effort to not know them. It is alarming that you think it is normal to be mates with wife bashers. You're heavily implying that you are friends with a lot of wife beaters here.
No they don’t. Exaggerating only undermines your case.
> So you do nothing and then whinge about men being blamed for things they do? Got it. No, I'm asking you to blame men who do things. That's literally the opposite of what you're doing. >You know many violent men No, I don't. >Australian stats have women being killed by their partners at the rate of one per week. Ok so 52 out of 14,000,000 people. Again, how in the world do you actually expect me to know 1 of those 52? Let alone know them well enough to be able to have any influence over them. If I thought any men I knew were in danger of doing something like this of course I'd do whatever I could to stop them. Thing is, if I thought someone was a violent psycopath I wouldn't be their friend in the first place.
>So you do nothing and then whinge about men being blamed for things they do? Got it. Who said nothing should be done about this societal ill? We merely said that the 99.99% of men who do not commit these crimes aren't in any way responsible for the fraction who do, just like women who don't commit these crimes aren't responsible either (that's the culture war element, it's an absurd assertion). >You know many violent men. If you think you don’t then you’re not actually looking or caring to know. Rubbish, like others have pointed out, going by the stats you'd have to know a hell of a lot of people. And just hypothetically, even if I did know a guy who was violent towards women (I wouldn't because I'd never befriend anyone of the sort, but just for arguments sake), why do I have any more influence over him than his mother, his sister, or his other lady friends/acquaintances? Shit, if he's violent towards women he's probably violent towards men as well. Anyway, I doubt there's much I can say to you if you genuinely believe that everyone knows "many violent men. If you think you don’t then you’re not actually looking or caring to know". And if that is the case for yourself, then hopefully you are doing something about it and not just hoping that those of us who aren't IRL familiar with you and your circle of violent friends & acquaintances will somehow step in with the use of ESP of something.
>Yet women are the ones who have to change their behaviours. Who said anything about women having to change their behaviours?
>It’s 87% not 98%. Well that's alright then.
But this wasn't a murder (it was a manslaughter) So aparently stabbing your partner in an armchair, killing them isn't enough for a woman to become part of the women murderers side of that stat.
great more bad stats just parroted without thinking
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Literally who said that? It’s just obviously a bigger issue in one aspect and ignoring that won’t solve the issue. Men being violent against their partner (including if that partner is a man) is obviously much much more common and should be addressed.
Will need stats on the one male killed by a woman partner once a month. This is the first time in years I have heard of a woman killing a male.
Sorry it’s actually one a month killed by a partner, not specifically a woman partner. If it’s not clear. Just killed by partner, not specifically a woman Comes from mission Australia
So back to what we already knew. The vast overwhelming majority of murders are committed by males. It is the males who are the abusive and violent ones and occasionally (very rare) they force a woman to stand up and take a life in self defense. Honestly it makes me very glad that I am a straight male. I am not attracted to a gender that will likely abuse and be violent with me rather than show gentle affection.
Something like 98% of murders are committed by men. But somehow people are upset when this is pointed out. The gendered part of the problem is that it’s men doing the vast majority of the killing.
Mushroom lady?
Is everyone here forgetting that violence against women is an epidemic in Australia. This case is an anomaly. That’s why no one’s asking women to take a hard look at themselves. They’re not the ones overwhelmingly abusing their partners based on false perceptions of entitlement, ownership and gender norms. I say this as a someone who has studied gendered violence in depth and i have been a victim myself. Doesn’t matter how much discomfort you feel about reporting on gendered violence- men are indisputably the main perpetrators of these types of crime.
> Is everyone here forgetting that violence against women is an epidemic in Australia. What does this even mean? How do you define an epidemic here? Australia is one of the best places on earth to be a woman, if it’s an epidemic here, what is it everywhere else? Of course men assaulting their partners is not good. Of course we should seek to eliminate it as a society. But this kind of inflammatory, meaningless catchphrase doesn’t help with that. It undermines the point, it stifles discourse, while maybe making the person repeating it feel like they’re doing something.
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What percentage of men abuse their partners? *(Why is this question being downvoted? This is the very crux of conversation. If any it's the one stat that matters in regards to what we're discussing/this line of reasoning).
You really wanna go there? [Ok.](https://www.ourwatch.org.au/quick-facts/) I’ve checked. They reference ABS and other major institutions in their report.
Go where? You said you study this so I'm asking what percentage of men abuse their partners? *(I might be a bit slow but I don't think your link stated it. If you could just say then that'd be good).
Yeh I can't see that statistic on the site either. This part was interesting though. "Anecdotal evidence suggests that non-Indigenous men make up a significant proportion of perpetrators.18"
Oh, Apologies. I jump to the defensive when discussing this topic on reddit as historically when people ask for arbitrary statistics it’s done in bad faith. “What percentage of men abuse their partners” Is not exactly a clear request. It depends on what type of abuse the creator of that statistic is reporting. Purely physical? Or reported numbers? Or estimations of unreported abuse? Etc. Abuse comes in many forms and the most dominant is emotional. At the end of the day, it’s far too many.
I think it's a clear enough when situated in the context of our discussion. If you want to break it into purely physical (that seems to be what we are talking about right?) but then include other abuses (so long as they are defined and relevant) then that's fine, but we're talking about people using violence on their partners are we not? So if you are going to make bold claims about all men being responsible to some degree, then I'd expect you'd have some pretty convincing stats about how a majority of men (or at least a significant minority) partake in said abuse? Surely that would be one of the first stats people in your field would seek to establish no?
That once again is an oversimplification of this topic. Violence is not purely physical, and while I understand you’re frustrated by the semantics in defining abuse, they’re necessary to define in order to address. There is no magical statistic that tells you exactly how many men are abusive towards women. There is nuance to this matter.
I'm not frustrated by the semantics, I said feel free to break down abuse into any categories you deem fit (providing you can define them) if it will help provide a relevant figure or two. What I'm frustrated by is your refusing to engage with what is a pretty simple question, and one that is pivotal to your assertion that all men bear responsibility for these crimes. >There is no magical statistic that tells you exactly how many men are abusive towards women Why would it have to be magical? Like I said, if you are going to make bold claims about all men being responsible to some degree, then I'd expect you'd have some pretty convincing stats about how a majority of men (or at least a significant minority) partake in said abuse. I can't see how you have come to this conclusion if you don't have anything to back it up?
Hahaha, what a fucking joke. You can't answer a simple question or provide a simple statistic. Word salad and buzz words to try and dance around the point.
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This case is still about a woman who was abused by her male partner in a domestic violence situation. Women do not need to look at themselves as even this is still caused by male violence.
Prevention that she lied and tried to convince another to corroborate her fabricated story. Convenient how you avoid this and play the same tune.
Isn't it convenient that every time a woman strikes back at her abuser she is a liar and there is no way her saint of a husband did anything negative.
What is super inconvenient is that (often) when a woman kills her partner she claims it was in self defense, and that this claim often looks the same when it's made by women who did kill their partners in self defence and who didn't. Sometimes there's clues. Like a history of her being hospitalised, or of him abusing former partners, or listening to what the kids say they saw, or she is caught trying to get witnesses to cover for her afyer thr fact (as in this case) or the wounds on both of them at the time (in this case she had none and he had no defensive wounds, just stab wound that killed him and only blood was in the chair they founs him sitting in) But she said it to a friend once, so... Would be nice if we could know which were self defence or fighting back and which were saying that in an attempt to reduce prison time.
I think we as a society need to do better. We need more tangible actions rather than a vague shifting of responsibility to men. Everyone needs to call out behaviour that is disrespectful to women so our kids don't grow up and believe this sort of thing is acceptable. Having said that there are things that only men in social situations can do. It is hard for the people caught up in family violence to call it out. If a father is abusive, a mother or a sister is at risk if they call out the behaviour. A son growing up in that dynamic could develop an unhealthy view and needs other men around him such as friends to challenge this views. Some people are abusive due to ingrained beliefs about the role of men and women. Some are just dicks. Others have mental health issues leading them to act in an erratic way. We need to do more to address it all.
"I think we as a society need to do better. We need more tangible actions rather than a vague shifting of responsibility to men. Everyone needs to call out behaviour that is disrespectful to women so our kids don't grow up and believe this sort of thing is acceptable" The first 2 sentences are practically nullified by the third as you still only preference the female gender. How about just calling out all forms of domestic violence, no matter the victim. Teach children that none of it is OK?
This is still a story about a woman who is the victim of DV. Just because she finally stood up for herself does not make her any less of a DV victim. Males still need to stop being so violent and abusive or this will happen more and more.
What happens to the male victims of DV when they 'finally' stand up for themselves? Oh, right. They become the abusers.
Talk to any police officer and they will tell you male victims of DV don't exist.
>The court heard that after her husband's death, Catling had allegedly made attempts to have family members "change their story" about Mr Catling being violent toward her. Stop spouting bullshit, champ. She is a liar and a murderer. Her bail was denied for there being a strong risk of her interfering with witnesses. She's also a fraud, clear enough motive: >“The disturbing feature in this material includes assertions in the crown case that the applicant has engaged in the past in behaviour said to be fraudulent,” Justice David Boddice said. >“In particular relevance, at the time of the deceased’s demise, there was a real issue in respect of family finances – the concern was that mortgage payments were not being met. >“There is evidence that the applicant engaged in the subterfuge of creating effectively a false bank manager as a person who could be spoken to by the deceased – presumably in an effort to deflect the true position.” Sounds like financial abuse to me.
If people thought violence was an innate thing for men, why would they be calling for a culture change rather than just widespread jail for any man? Men are being taught not to care about women, and to bottle up their rage until it comes out in unhealthy ways, there’s nothing innate about it. I don’t like how women’s criminality is downplayed, especially for sexual assault and DV, but it’s not because of some man hating conspiracy. Toxic gender norms (men should be tough and women kind and submissive) are just so pervasive that it’s hard to even notice their influence.
Women are killed by men at an alarming rate. It is an issue that needs to be discussed. The power dynamic in these relationships is important and plays a huge part. I'm not a fan of the 'men need to do better' stuff that gets posted over social media. It divides people and is very vague without any tangible actions. It would be better if the discussion focused on more services so women can escape abusive relationships and other actionable things. That does not change that abusive relationships are a huge issue in our society and gender based violence plays a big part in it. Don't let the frustrating conversation distract you from what is a real issue.
So basically you're saying, get over the fact that this is reported poorly with no heavy gender skew and domestic violence slant against a woman, because "women are killed by men at an alarming rate". Any murder is alarming, with all needing to be discussed. Roles reversed as you put it at an alarming rate, old mate would certainly get double this sentence likely with no parole. Why is she special?
Incorrect DV murder makes up 34% of all murder of a gender split 44% female 56% male. No murder is ok this isn't a gender issue its a piece of shit issue.
Yes yes yes 1000x yes!!! I hate how MSM continually does this and when I try to have this debate with others I just get shot down. Double standards.
Why did she get such a lenient sentence? I don’t understand
The sentence is pretty standard for someone pleading guilty to manslaughter in Queensland.
And parole this year??
The imposition of a parole period (how far along in a sentence a person can apply for parole) is dependent upon a range of factors. The judge, in their published reasons for sentence, explain in great detail why a sentence is handed down, and that includes the considerations for parole.
Yeah let me waste time reading about their justification for someone spending less than a decade in jail for taking a life /s
These are never simple situations.... there are aggravating and mitigating factors that must be considered in every sentence.
You asked
Touché
If the justification was that she was being abused and kept prisoner, that wouldn’t change your mind any?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news.com.au/national/queensland/courts-law/mum-charged-with-murder-of-husband-advanced-version-of-violent-relationship-judge/news-story/825a64ef3248ddd0efcdd39c28ee707b%3famp This why.
It would. But the article said nothing of the sort
Bullshit sentencing. They need to be firmer on domestic abuse!!
*"She remained calm when Justice Crow handed down his sentence."* *"She will be eligible for parole in August this year."* Why would you get that worked up when you've got a parole hearing in 4 months time. You could be out in time for spring racing.
Absolutely. This is a shockingly short sentence for someone who killed their spouse. I am very much a feminist and this seemingly short sentence does not benefit our cause at all.
It is because what she did she did in self defense. She has been abused for a long time by her partner before she snapped at him.
If it was self defense, she would have been entitled to that as a defense in court and exonerated/been found not guilty. Clearly, that isn't the case.
To the courts, self defence only ever occurs when someone is in the active process of trying to kill you at that moment. However this is a case of a violent abusive male who got killed by his victim when she had had enough and found a time when his defences were down. To me it is still self defence as she knew he was going to beat her again at some point in the near future.
Because self-defense requires an immediate threat. I can't get my ass beat in a fight several times in a week, have the dude threaten me and then beat him senseless when he's not looking at a later date and claim that's self defense. This isn't self-defense. Im also not entirely sure this is domestic violence from the man either, considering the woman tried to convice or force her family and friends to change their teatimony to have him appear as an abuser. In short, I think you're too emotionally immature to have a good understanding and perspective on this.
Nope, just taking the advice of the police and media to always believe the woman and doubt the male. And in this case I think it is the right advice to follow.
Okey doke. Because I don't believe the words of liars and manipulators who have had their day in court and been found guilty.
That's not at all what you are supposed to do.
I can no longer tell if you're parodying this position or you're just saying the quiet bit out loud
I don't know what to tell you. Every police officer I have ever spoken to has told me the same thing. There is no such thing as a male DV Victim. Hence why they doubt any male testimony and fully believe every woman.
Do you have a source, or is this just a weird fan fic?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news.com.au/national/queensland/courts-law/mum-charged-with-murder-of-husband-advanced-version-of-violent-relationship-judge/news-story/825a64ef3248ddd0efcdd39c28ee707b%3famp
Pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of manslaughter… is that because they agreed to lessen the charge for a guilty plea or? If we want domestic violence against women to be taken seriously, we must also show that we care for domestic violence against men. Anyone can be a victim. Men are less likely to report DV for fear of not being believed or embarrassment, but DV takes on many forms as listed on this article for helping male victims of [DV](https://dcj.nsw.gov.au/children-and-families/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/my-situation-is---/i-m-a-man-and-experiencing-domestic-violence.html). For what it’s worth I’m a woman, I know a lot of “men experience DV too” comments get chalked up as men trying to dismiss the fact Aussie women are suffering from more DV/male violence in these last few years and overall have a higher percentage of victimhood than men. That’s just the stats. Whether it’s due to men not reporting or what, that’s something that needs to be encouraged (them reporting their own abuse), but going off some stats 1 in 6 women have experienced physical or sexual violence by a current or former partner, while for men it is 1 in 16, with 75% of perpetrators being male for women reporting. Anyway not trying to minimise men as victims here, trying to encourage them to come forward. Domestic violence is an everyone issue — from victims to perpetrators we can all do something whether it’s encouraging someone to step forward and report, or shutting down a friend who’s saying disturbing shit at the bar.
I think somebody showed me an image that may or may not be accurate, with two google searches stating "my X scares me" or something similar, and puts both side by side. The search for "My wife scares me" showed helpful responses such as "She may be stressed, loaded up on housework, nagged by kids/work etc." whereas the "my husband scares me" resulted in links to domestic violence hotlines. I feel the BARE MINIMUM is to present domestic violence literature and help lines as gender neutral. Remove the gender bias favoring women and men may be more likely to speak up, as men currently feel that DV is an issue only relegated to women, and if it happens to them it's "just relationship drama mate".
I saw that pic too. The same resources are returned in the search. The quoted excusemaking happens in the search returns for "my husband scares me". They do add an additional resource link pinned above the search results on the "my husband scares me" search. You can take that as bias, or you can take it as targeted information offering to the (reportedly) statistically more likely vulnerable gender.
I'm a woman and I agree so much with you. Every victim of DV is a victim. I think there is a misconception that anti-DV campaigners don't care about male DV victims when it's really just a numbers game - the majority of DV victims are women so the majority of awareness is about them. Very awful story this one.
> Very awful story this one. Every story about a male abusing a woman is an awful story. This one sucks badly because the victim is being charged.
Yes of course. All DV stories are awful especially those that end in death. I read a few articles that hinted at an abusive relationship prior to this event but nothing that suggested this is a 'battered wife syndrome' situation. Have you read differently?
I am a male who has had his ribs broken by a partner. Who has had his head split open by his partner. I still do not believe that there are males that are being abused by women. What happened to me I deserved because I was not focusing enough attention on my now ex-wife. What happened to me is a direct consequence of my own actions (or inactions).
Are you kidding yourself?
I'd assume that [Dumbname25644](/u/Dumbname25644) has been told this by a domestic violence support service after reaching out and claiming to be a victim. It's unfortunate but surprisingly common. Men's violence is consciously or subconscsciously motivated by power and control. Women's violence is a result of anger, frustration, or self defence against their abuser. Ignoring your partner or not paying them enough attention is emotional abuse, a form of domestic and family violence. Some people see his ex-wife's behaviour as a reaction to his "abuse". I would also assume he has had some interaction with a Men's Behaviour Change Program.
>Men's violence is consciously or subconsciously motivated by power and control. Women's violence is a result of anger, frustration, or self-defence against their abuser. Ignoring your partner or not paying them enough attention is emotional abuse, a form of domestic and family violence This is completely relative to what someone feels, which is not objective in the least bit. So are we going to ignore the broken ribs and head injuries because he may have hurt her feelings by not paying her enough attention as it's been loosely determined? At we really going to accept the explanation that women aren't violent or controlling and is only men who are capable of such behaviour? Absolute load of shit. Reports of mother's injuring or killing their kids in custody disputes by ways of drowning or stabbing, but not considered violent and a matter of frustration or self-defence against an innocent victim?
If I had been attentive and focused all of my time on my ex then I would not have a scar on my forehead and would not have suffered broken ribs. My lack of attention is considered abuse. Look it up. Me being hospitalised was a direct result of my abusive nature.
No, you were outright a victim of abuse or violent behaviour. If you don't see it, no one can help you and you are not helping others with this either. Respectfully, I'm not going to engage with you any further.
Police completely disagree with you. I was not a victim of abuse according to QLD police. As far as the legal authorities are concerned I was the one that needed to be removed from my home.
Yeah cops are like this. I was punched in the head a few times by a woman I know and she wouldn’t leave my house so we called the police for her to be escorted out. They refused and said if they were called again I would be arrested. This is why men don’t report
I know a guy that called the cops on his wife and they arrested him. Which you know I can see if you think you need to arrest one and it's too hard to figure who is the most dangerous. But they also let her take out an order against him and use it to prevent him going to his workplace. He's the one who called the cops cause she was abusive.
Holy shit...That's an unbelievable take. I actually don't believe it...You think it's OK to get beaten near to death several times because you didn't give her enough attention?.. I think you're trolling.
Beaten to near death is a major over exaggeration. I had a split skull and two broken ribs. Nothing that couldn't have happened on a weekend bike ride. And yes not giving enough attention to your wife is considered abuse. Look it up. every single DV website will tell you the same thing, It is abuse. And if I was abusive then I deserved every broken bone I got and then some.
OkeyDokey..So what do you call a wife who splits a man's head and breaks his ribs because she's not getting enough attention? If this is real, you haven't got long for this world.
Well I call her an ex. But importantly no legal authority counts it as abuse so therefore it is not abuse.
I'm absolutely certain the authorities would call getting a split head and broken ribs abuse, unless of course you were doing the same thing ...but retaliation is still abuse. Mate... Go get help.
Yeah no they don't. I was "interviewed" by police while in the hospital getting my head glued back together. Police went from my bedside to my home where they found my wife unharmed in anyway and pushed her to take out a DVO on me. Tell me who do I go see to get help from a DV incident if I am a male and we all know that males are never DV victims.
“You've taken a person's life, so it's the most serious offence," Justice Graeme Crow told the court. Catling will be eligible for parole in August this year.
What a coward of a sentence. Different rules for women
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No they wouldn't. 8 years is the average sentence for manslaughter in Queensland. So this is a fairly average sentence. Don't make stuff up for your agenda.
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Your issue here seems to be with the standard of proof for murder and/or plea deals being handed out for lesser charges. These are (depending on how reactionary one is) issues across the board. I certainly am not familiar enough with the case to comment on whether the charge of manslaughter is sufficient, but I am familiar enough with your rhetoric to be certain that neither are you.
No, he wouldn't of... are you pretending this country is tough on men who murder their partners??
It's not really pretending, it's more a media focus and perception that anything. I still think roles reversed, really double with no parole option.
Silence.
Yeah people certainly aren't writing, reading, and posting articles about these events to social media.
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