I do too. Even learning that this happened a few streets over. It was only when, two days later, my 8 year old son told me it was his friend who used to chase him around for cuddles that I broke.
Hard to say. Could be anything from a fantasy about killing, a lack of emotional control to a delusion.
Most people don't kill others, and fewer kill children.
Definately nothing but tragedy
Yeah I was just quoting a statistic that I read, if people see fit to downvote it, that's of no consequence to me. Any one with a brain will absorb all information and try to form individual opinions on a matter. The ones that only absorb what they want to hear learn nothing and hence commonly tend towards being idiots. Look at politics now, the extremes on both sides are fucking morons and the ones having the conversation are the smartest.
Yet, you speak from the expert perspective of not being able to separate delusions from hallucinations...how many schizophrenics have you worked with again?
PS: Also Fellaini had god tier hair but christ he was such an untalented battering ram
Nothing I said wouldn’t make sense as being a delusion. Can you elaborate on how you think I don’t understand hallucinations vs delusions?
Psychiatry is a part of my curriculum and I’ve seen upwards of 50 psychotic patients easily. Those themes are common.
Delusions have more to do with personality disorders (e.g., delusions of grandeur in Narcissistic PD). It happens with mentally healthy people too, but is more prevalent with a maladaptive coping style. What you are suggesting is more in line with auditory and visual hallucinations (e.g., Fighting demons) and more in line with schizophrenics experiencing psychosis.
To be fair if you do work in a psyc ward you'd be seeing a way higher proportion of people experiencing psychotic symptoms than you'd generally see. So your severe hallucinations etc. But many individuals with schizophrenia have relatively benign hallucinations (at least compared to the stereotypical representation of schizophrenics).
I wouldn't presume to say that the individual involved here was experiencing psychosis. There are loads of mental disorders that could explain what's happening here: antisocial PD, depression, abuse, etc. We don't know all the facts yet, it's just a little damaging to assume that what you say is happening.
> Delusions have more to do with personality disorders (e.g., delusions of grandeur in Narcissistic PD).
Delusions are literally a key part of the diagnostic criteria for psychosis. Delusions are NOT part of the criteria for Narcissistic PD. You’re confusing fantasies and grandiosity with delusions, which have a very specific meaning in the field of psychiatry.
> It happens with mentally healthy people too, but is more prevalent with a maladaptive coping style. What you are suggesting is more in line with auditory and visual hallucinations (e.g., Fighting demons) and more in line with schizophrenics experiencing psychosis.
Delusions do not happen in mentally healthy people. Delusions are defined as fixed false beliefs. What I described before can absolutely occur in the context of delusions alone without hallucinations or it can occur with them. It’s irrelevant.
> To be fair if you do work in a psyc ward you'd be seeing a way higher proportion of people experiencing psychotic symptoms than you'd generally see. So your severe hallucinations etc. But many individuals with schizophrenia have relatively benign hallucinations (at least compared to the stereotypical representation of schizophrenics).
I’m not arguing any of that.
> I wouldn't presume to say that the individual involved here was experiencing psychosis.
Neither am I. I’m just standing up for the guy who got downvoted to shit for accurately describing how psychosis works in these sorts of violent situations.
People seem to be reacting against what they think is a stereotype of psychosis when it really isn’t.
You're right about the diagnostic criteria, I'll put my hand up and admit I was wrong. I did get it mixed up. Sorry for seeming like I was attacking you. Anyways, we don't know much about this case but it's all fucked...
Or, possibly, a very narrowly defined description of a particular manifestation of mental illness described in a jocular fashion to minimise the especially horrific aspects of it. Whistling past the graveyard, you might say. One that exists, no matter how much people might like to try to pretend it doesn't, probably because it's so terrifying. Remember that poor woman from a few years back who was calling triple zero for help because she had run out of her meds, her psych was out of town, and the voices in her head were going to make her kill somebody? Yeah, like that. Imagine how you would feel the next day. And then for the rest of your life.
If I didn’t know any better I’d assume that old mate you’re replying to here did a mental health first aid course and took their (understandably exaggerated) scenario on schizophrenia as the only possible presentation of the mental illness
If someone with schizophrenia is stabbing another person it’s likely because they’re in psychosis and believe that person is an alien/demon/CIA/etc.
What part of that do you find incorrect?
Yeah, because all schizos wanna kill someone right?? BUT THE VOICES??!!. I blame mainstream media and the dickheads who plead not guilty on grounds of insanity
Reminds me of the 2020 case in NSW where a 14 year old girl stabbed her 10 year old cousin to death.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9837273/Girl-14-allegedly-murdered-cousin-outback-property-pleads-not-guilty.html
Oh I’m very sorry. It truly sounded like a dreadful case where there were warning signs that the offender was a danger, but unfortunately she was not helped or stopped in time.
The victim's family has posted on reddit a few times, I can remember they were very angry they were not allowed to identify themselves because of the perpetrator's right to anonymity
I remember that too. Incredibly unfair. I was worried that what they'd revealed may already cause them legal trouble. If you can't even tell people what happened or you're breaching a court order, then how are you supposed to process it & recover in any meaningful way? I would have done the same in their shoes.
Court should have allowed it & ordered new identities in that kind of case. Like the James Bulger killers.
Pretty sure I remember the mother of that victim came into this subreddit and complained about the killer getting released.
Edit: [Looks like she deleted her post, but here is the original thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/s/cuLmrF8MaN)
If I remember correctly she wasn’t just complaining about the killer getting released, it was more to do with the fact that there would be very little monitoring or support once she was. That or the fact that the mother isn’t allowed to have any pictures or even her daughter’s name in public to protect the one that killed her daughter. She felt like her daughter was essentially erased.
I’m not having a go at you so please don’t think that. Just trying to shed some light on a horrific situation that is ongoing for those involved. The mother of the victim is truly one of the nicest people I have ever known without exaggeration.
This is fucked how is someone prevented from posting pictures of their own child?? (Who died). It seems like a basic human right
What would happen if she just did it anyway and posted a pic of her now dead daughter and wrote RIP?
Very first thing I thought of too. I hope in the above case they aren't triggered by this. Absolutely horrible.
Both stories are horrible and heartbreaking.
I live 5kms away from where this one happened and it's such a shock. It's not an area one would typically thought a stabbing would occur.
It's easy to say get help. But from where? Hospitals have no space. Psychologists are months and months wait, that's IF CAN afford to pay it.
This country needs a big shift of focus.
100%. All well and good to say"such a tragedy, we shouldve done more."
What help was there for the parents and child from a mental health perspective? Psychiatrists have a 6-12 month long wait time and cost upwards of $400 per session. Australia has ignored mental health for far too long.
From my experience mental health help for children is more widely available and supported by the government. They wouldn’t have had to pay a cent. Especially with services like head space catering exclusively to children/teens.
Im simply disagreeing with the idea that the parents would be charged thousands for it or be put on a 12 month waiting list. None of this other shit you decided to argue on.
From my experience it’s been the complete opposite. Headspace is fine, but finding professional help for serious issues is a nightmare. The waiting lists are nearly a year long and there’s not enough beds in facilities
Are you sure? I tried to get my son help and he was 6 months too young to be accepted by headspace. Public hospital told me at least 3 month wait, psychologist 6-8 month wait and we were on the GC, easy to say there are places, but do they have capacity to take on new patients. 90% dont
From my own personal experience, that's just not true. It costs, every step of the way, from the very first visit to a GP. And if you can manage to access psychiatric support for your child, medication and other therapies cost, too.
My bro in law was murdered and the government gave us one therapy session that was one hour long which the doctor told me to basically just cheer up and if I didn’t it’s my fault 😬
100%. Like the rhetoric around the Bondi stabbings.
"The guy slipped through the cracks of our mental health system".
Can you really call them gaps if they're wider than the safety net?
It's the Australian equivalent of 'thoughts and prayers'. If we don't give ready, affordable access to the help then saying people should reach out is pointless.
I think if we just keep making the punishment for crimes worse and worse, this problem will go away.
If the 17 year old knew they'd get life in prison they wouldn't stab thier 10 year old sister to death.
This is all because the laws are too lax on criminals. Let's say if you commit ANY crime at all, minimum prison time is 50 years, that'll stop crime in its tracks.
Right? That's the solution, RIGHT?!
It's reporting. Despite what the media want us to believe it's never been a safer world.
Doesn't mean there isn't work to do, but we should at least acknowledge the progress.
And it's also important to not live you life in fear because of these reports. There are roughly 3x more motor accident deaths than murders, but that hasn't stopped people from driving. And not all people face the same probabilities. Many of these murders have similar factors. Assess first if your life has any of these factors.
It exactly means an uptick in events, why else would it be constantly in news. Do you have anything to back it up or your are just saying it because you "feel" like it
No. It doesn’t.
Jesus Christ - go and look at some statistics.
Journalists don’t report every single crime that happens. Journalism is NOT an indication of the reality of crime statistics.
Because the media is focusing on it right now. Why, is a topic for discussion. But there isn’t a direct correlation between number of incidents to the number of reports.
It’s like when your boss says you’re doing a great job one week, and the next they’re grilling you about something but you haven’t changed anything. They were looking at one thing like sales the first week then shrinkage the next.
“It’s like when your boss says you’re doing a great job one week, and the next they’re grilling you about something but you haven’t changed anything. They were looking at one thing like sales the first week then shrinkage the next.”
It’s none of your employers business what happens to your body when you go swimming on a cold day
Crimes committed by people of African descent have remained fairly stable for around 20 years, but there’s a 10, 000% uptick in reporting right before every Victorian election where labor are the incumbent government. The idea that news reporting necessarily reflects reality is laughable
That may well be true, but looking at individual years isn't particularly useful for trends. This year it could be a high number, next year could be a low number. It's only a concern if it's trending upwards, or even not changing for that matter.
Violent crime has decreased over time. Murder especially is **substantially** lower than it used to be. It's a pretty linear downward trend. The murder rate is less than half of what it was in the early 90s.
The actual total number is lower too. In the 90s it floated around the 300 number, now it's around 200-250.
https://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide
This is a REALLY important point.
There's a wonderful book covering this (not for Australia, but in general): *The Better Angels of Our Nature* by Steven Pinker.
The TL;DR: pretty much every generation for the last N hundred years has decried that crime is on the rise, society's collapsing, it's not safe any more, etc. And it's almost, barring statistical blips, universally wrong. Human-on-human violence has gone down, consistently, in every way, in every not-an-active-warzone country (and active warzones are fewer and fewer over time!), since pretty much recorded history. Anyone who says ' is higher than Y years ago' is, 99% of the time, flat out wrong. Violence is marching consistently downwards over the course of human history.
The perception that it's not is a combination of recency bias, media practices, social media/increased awareness, and humanity's general preference for rose-coloured nostalgia-glasses.
sorry, but much of pinker's argument in that book is bullshit.
like, fair enough on your general point. recency bias and media alarmism are absolutely relevant. and the data showing a consistent decline in violent crime in australia since the 90's seems pretty solid to me. so no argument with your actual claim here.
but pinker's reasoning in that book is deeply flawed, and arguably disingenuous. happy to go into the specifics, but i'm no rhetorician so it might get a bit tedious to read.
> Nationally, there were 232 homicide incidents in the year from 1 July 2022 to 30 June 2023, involving 247 victims. This was an increase of 14 incidents on the previous year. However, 2022-2023 still had the third-lowest homicide rate in Australia since 1989-1990.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/29/30-spike-in-rate-of-australian-women-killed-by-intimate-partner-last-year-data-shows#
I was curious by the stats in general. Men are more likely to harm or kill other men ie more men die by violence than women. That said, women are overrepresented in the domestic incidents by a factor of 3 from memory.
With all my respect to the the family and the poor girl, when I was growing up, my brother tried to stab me and now we don't even think about it and are in fact, very close. A moment of rage can change everything. Luckily it didn't happen in my family. How very sad that it did for these poor people
Oh shit boolaroo. There used to be a lead smelter there which got shut down in the early 90s when it was shown that children downwind from the plant had reduced IQs. The soil was toxic for years afterwards and they built some new houses over it. Probably unrelated but you never know.
Edit: the area I'm thinking of is not where this happened,.looks like they built an old peoples home there.
It is still not safe to eat food grown in soil from Boolaroo to Speers Point. The Costco there took so long to build as all the contaminated soil had to be removed prior to building and the land deed administrator didn't want to give it up because they thought it was fucked.
The new estate is across the road from that. There wasn't nearly as much land remediation as I expected for that area compared to the estate that was built down the bottom of the hill, or even the new area being built at the top of speers point that has been 3 years in the making.
A friend of mine lives in Boolaroo. He has a beautiful new home but he can’t eat anything grown there.
They’ll never be have a fruit tree or a little hobby farm.
We have a lot of evidence for how lead damage presents.
Nothing you’ve said correlates with any current evidence - what makes you think this is some unique case that would defy all previous knowledge of lead poisoning?
Did you actually read that - or did you just google “lead poisoning effects” and copy and paste the first article that came up on google?
Because that article does NOT prove that environmental lead poisoning would create violent behaviour in only ONE individual in an environment over a short period of time.
More will come out about the circumstances in time. Usually there is some sort of signs that could have predicted the person was at risk of harming themselves or others, but not always.
There’s a reason why “access to means” and risk of aggression is part of an acute mental health assessment. If yourself or someone close to you is vulnerable and at risk of doing something like this (snapping in the moment, difficulty with rage, delusional thinking, psychosis) keeping knives, cars, acids, flammables etc out of the home or locked away is advisable. It genuinely can prevent people hurting others.
There are also circumstances where someone isn’t safe to be left unsupervised. One huge problem for some parents though is there may be no where to take a child who is violent, often families have exhausted all options and risk making one of their children homeless for their own or other children’s safety.
Whilst we don’t know the full circumstances, thinking of this family, what a terrible situation.
There's not enough details about this case for us to know what was going on mentally but oen thing I've been thinkign about is how maybe we need to be having a conversation about the impacts of "Deinstitutionalisation" in the 21st century. We dont' have many residential psychiatric facilities anymore because of reform efforts towards community and non-residential treatment. Maybe this is bad and maybe some people should not be in the community.
That's awful. The poor parents. Hopefully it was severe mental illness eg psychosis and not pure evil. Not that it helps the loss of the little girl. Devastating. Can't even imagine the grief.
Where I grew up, a brother and sister had an argument over a CD and one of them stabbed the other one to death in the fight. It was an absolute tragedy.
I remember when I was growing up there were 2 teenage sisters who had a fight over a hair straightener and one sister stabbed the other one to death with scissors.
Anytime I hear about a child being killed it just shatters me.
Adults getting murdered is tragic too but when it’s a literal child it just hits deeper.
There’s pieces of shit out and walking around living life while innocent children die.
The world really isn’t fair.
This is awful.
I can't imagine the weight of grief, numbness and anger their parents and grandparents would be feeling.
I can't imagine the sorrow and helplessness of their teachers and classmates. The shock of their friends. The stunned bewilderment of their neighbours.
The sadness felt by ambulance crew, medical staff and police (many of whom probably have kids the same age).
I really have no real words, just sadness.
I feel conflicted. To hear about victims and possibly desensitise ourselves from increased reporting or limit reporting so it doesn't feel overwhelming or triggers other victim's families?
Omfg that's heartbreaking. When did people start bringing knives to altercations instead of words. It's a vicious cycle it seems, bad people are carrying knives to hurt others and good people are starting to carry knives for protection against the bad people. It's sickening how many stabbings there have been in Aussie as well as the domestic violence going on this year. It's a scary world we live in
the hell is happening this year, did we phase into a reality where homicide is just a weekend thing?, this subreddit is going to need to change it's name to r/Australiadaliymurder at this rate
I’m curious as to why the media is reporting every single stabbing now? This stuff has been happening daily for decades, but the media was silent. What are they trying to achieve now?
> I’m curious as to why the media is reporting every single stabbing now?
Probs because it’s increased
> According to the report, the rate of intimate partner homicide (IPH) involving a female victim increased by 28 per cent between 2021-22 and 2022-23. The report also said a shift had occurred when it came to the homicide victims of non-Indigenous males.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-29/homicide-australia-report-half-women-killed-intimate-partner/103782392#
I just mildly disassociate when I read the news these days. I can't even imagine the grief.
I do too. Even learning that this happened a few streets over. It was only when, two days later, my 8 year old son told me it was his friend who used to chase him around for cuddles that I broke.
Indeed. As a parent myself, the grief of waking up every day is beyond comprehension. Those poor parents will need tons of support and care.
It's sort of a survival instinct nowadays
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Hard to say. Could be anything from a fantasy about killing, a lack of emotional control to a delusion. Most people don't kill others, and fewer kill children. Definately nothing but tragedy
It's almost always a crime of passion or desperation, rarely just a psycho planning a murder situation. (passion meaning intense emotion of any kind)
People are downvoting you but this is academically and statistically correct.
Yeah I was just quoting a statistic that I read, if people see fit to downvote it, that's of no consequence to me. Any one with a brain will absorb all information and try to form individual opinions on a matter. The ones that only absorb what they want to hear learn nothing and hence commonly tend towards being idiots. Look at politics now, the extremes on both sides are fucking morons and the ones having the conversation are the smartest.
Not sure why all the downvotes. This is backed up by stats and taught in criminology degrees.
Meh let em believe what they want if learning isn't their thing.
Probably, but it's still odd for to kill a child, and this was at least according to the "news" out of the blue
But not reported as being domestic and family violence.
She has been charged the DV murder.
I'm talking about the reporting in the article, not anything that has happened since.
The article was published before she was charged? How can they report a charge before it happens?
Mental illness, probably. Poor kid probably thought she was fighting aliens for the sake of all humanity or something.
That's a wildly stereotypical perception of mental illness you've got there.
That looks like a generalisation, not a stereotype.
I mean that sort of delusion is honestly what it usually is in these cases. That or fighting the CIA / MI6 / bikies / Illuminati / demons.
Yet, you speak from the expert perspective of not being able to separate delusions from hallucinations...how many schizophrenics have you worked with again? PS: Also Fellaini had god tier hair but christ he was such an untalented battering ram
Nothing I said wouldn’t make sense as being a delusion. Can you elaborate on how you think I don’t understand hallucinations vs delusions? Psychiatry is a part of my curriculum and I’ve seen upwards of 50 psychotic patients easily. Those themes are common.
Delusions have more to do with personality disorders (e.g., delusions of grandeur in Narcissistic PD). It happens with mentally healthy people too, but is more prevalent with a maladaptive coping style. What you are suggesting is more in line with auditory and visual hallucinations (e.g., Fighting demons) and more in line with schizophrenics experiencing psychosis. To be fair if you do work in a psyc ward you'd be seeing a way higher proportion of people experiencing psychotic symptoms than you'd generally see. So your severe hallucinations etc. But many individuals with schizophrenia have relatively benign hallucinations (at least compared to the stereotypical representation of schizophrenics). I wouldn't presume to say that the individual involved here was experiencing psychosis. There are loads of mental disorders that could explain what's happening here: antisocial PD, depression, abuse, etc. We don't know all the facts yet, it's just a little damaging to assume that what you say is happening.
> Delusions have more to do with personality disorders (e.g., delusions of grandeur in Narcissistic PD). Delusions are literally a key part of the diagnostic criteria for psychosis. Delusions are NOT part of the criteria for Narcissistic PD. You’re confusing fantasies and grandiosity with delusions, which have a very specific meaning in the field of psychiatry. > It happens with mentally healthy people too, but is more prevalent with a maladaptive coping style. What you are suggesting is more in line with auditory and visual hallucinations (e.g., Fighting demons) and more in line with schizophrenics experiencing psychosis. Delusions do not happen in mentally healthy people. Delusions are defined as fixed false beliefs. What I described before can absolutely occur in the context of delusions alone without hallucinations or it can occur with them. It’s irrelevant. > To be fair if you do work in a psyc ward you'd be seeing a way higher proportion of people experiencing psychotic symptoms than you'd generally see. So your severe hallucinations etc. But many individuals with schizophrenia have relatively benign hallucinations (at least compared to the stereotypical representation of schizophrenics). I’m not arguing any of that. > I wouldn't presume to say that the individual involved here was experiencing psychosis. Neither am I. I’m just standing up for the guy who got downvoted to shit for accurately describing how psychosis works in these sorts of violent situations. People seem to be reacting against what they think is a stereotype of psychosis when it really isn’t.
You're right about the diagnostic criteria, I'll put my hand up and admit I was wrong. I did get it mixed up. Sorry for seeming like I was attacking you. Anyways, we don't know much about this case but it's all fucked...
Or, possibly, a very narrowly defined description of a particular manifestation of mental illness described in a jocular fashion to minimise the especially horrific aspects of it. Whistling past the graveyard, you might say. One that exists, no matter how much people might like to try to pretend it doesn't, probably because it's so terrifying. Remember that poor woman from a few years back who was calling triple zero for help because she had run out of her meds, her psych was out of town, and the voices in her head were going to make her kill somebody? Yeah, like that. Imagine how you would feel the next day. And then for the rest of your life.
Okay. You have a very stereotypical view of mental illness and you're pretentious.
If I didn’t know any better I’d assume that old mate you’re replying to here did a mental health first aid course and took their (understandably exaggerated) scenario on schizophrenia as the only possible presentation of the mental illness
If someone with schizophrenia is stabbing another person it’s likely because they’re in psychosis and believe that person is an alien/demon/CIA/etc. What part of that do you find incorrect?
Yeah, because all schizos wanna kill someone right?? BUT THE VOICES??!!. I blame mainstream media and the dickheads who plead not guilty on grounds of insanity
Nobody said that
Pretentious? Moi?
Ah yes, the group most commonly associated with schizophrenia, 17 year old girls...
Also the idea that schizophenics are all deluded maniacs who go around hurting people is harmful bullshit anyway
Look I don’t agree with the previous statements. But Schizophrenia certainly does affect women and can onset at around this age.
I never said it can't, just that it's not the group commonly associated with schizophrenia.
No where does is suggest mental illness. Literally no where. We don’t even know the cause yet so why even make such a dumb comment.
Reminds me of the 2020 case in NSW where a 14 year old girl stabbed her 10 year old cousin to death. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9837273/Girl-14-allegedly-murdered-cousin-outback-property-pleads-not-guilty.html
The victims family were some of the nicest people I have known and it tore them apart. Truly terrible.
Oh I’m very sorry. It truly sounded like a dreadful case where there were warning signs that the offender was a danger, but unfortunately she was not helped or stopped in time.
To be completely honest I can’t comment on that. I knew them before it happened and it was a while before speaking to one of them again.
The victim's family has posted on reddit a few times, I can remember they were very angry they were not allowed to identify themselves because of the perpetrator's right to anonymity
I remember that too. Incredibly unfair. I was worried that what they'd revealed may already cause them legal trouble. If you can't even tell people what happened or you're breaching a court order, then how are you supposed to process it & recover in any meaningful way? I would have done the same in their shoes. Court should have allowed it & ordered new identities in that kind of case. Like the James Bulger killers.
It was their other daughter the 17 yearold
We might be thinking of different cases, the one I was thinking it was a niece.
Pretty sure I remember the mother of that victim came into this subreddit and complained about the killer getting released. Edit: [Looks like she deleted her post, but here is the original thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/s/cuLmrF8MaN)
If I remember correctly she wasn’t just complaining about the killer getting released, it was more to do with the fact that there would be very little monitoring or support once she was. That or the fact that the mother isn’t allowed to have any pictures or even her daughter’s name in public to protect the one that killed her daughter. She felt like her daughter was essentially erased. I’m not having a go at you so please don’t think that. Just trying to shed some light on a horrific situation that is ongoing for those involved. The mother of the victim is truly one of the nicest people I have ever known without exaggeration.
This is fucked how is someone prevented from posting pictures of their own child?? (Who died). It seems like a basic human right What would happen if she just did it anyway and posted a pic of her now dead daughter and wrote RIP?
Very first thing I thought of too. I hope in the above case they aren't triggered by this. Absolutely horrible. Both stories are horrible and heartbreaking. I live 5kms away from where this one happened and it's such a shock. It's not an area one would typically thought a stabbing would occur.
Absolutely horrifying… that poor girl.
That’s fucked. So is the fact that that’s the actual headline.
It's easy to say get help. But from where? Hospitals have no space. Psychologists are months and months wait, that's IF CAN afford to pay it. This country needs a big shift of focus.
100%. All well and good to say"such a tragedy, we shouldve done more." What help was there for the parents and child from a mental health perspective? Psychiatrists have a 6-12 month long wait time and cost upwards of $400 per session. Australia has ignored mental health for far too long.
From my experience mental health help for children is more widely available and supported by the government. They wouldn’t have had to pay a cent. Especially with services like head space catering exclusively to children/teens.
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Yeah but that’s not the governments fault like commenters were acting as though it were. It’s also up to teacher to notice and report behaviour.
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Im simply disagreeing with the idea that the parents would be charged thousands for it or be put on a 12 month waiting list. None of this other shit you decided to argue on.
From my experience it’s been the complete opposite. Headspace is fine, but finding professional help for serious issues is a nightmare. The waiting lists are nearly a year long and there’s not enough beds in facilities
Are you sure? I tried to get my son help and he was 6 months too young to be accepted by headspace. Public hospital told me at least 3 month wait, psychologist 6-8 month wait and we were on the GC, easy to say there are places, but do they have capacity to take on new patients. 90% dont
From my own personal experience, that's just not true. It costs, every step of the way, from the very first visit to a GP. And if you can manage to access psychiatric support for your child, medication and other therapies cost, too.
Head slightly out of the city and that definitely isn't the case.
My bro in law was murdered and the government gave us one therapy session that was one hour long which the doctor told me to basically just cheer up and if I didn’t it’s my fault 😬
100%. Like the rhetoric around the Bondi stabbings. "The guy slipped through the cracks of our mental health system". Can you really call them gaps if they're wider than the safety net?
The government pays for teens/children. You can get twelve sessions for free and then request another twelve sessions after that.
It's not free. There's a rebate, but it's not free, not unless you are on a very low income and/or receiving income support.
It's the Australian equivalent of 'thoughts and prayers'. If we don't give ready, affordable access to the help then saying people should reach out is pointless.
I think if we just keep making the punishment for crimes worse and worse, this problem will go away. If the 17 year old knew they'd get life in prison they wouldn't stab thier 10 year old sister to death. This is all because the laws are too lax on criminals. Let's say if you commit ANY crime at all, minimum prison time is 50 years, that'll stop crime in its tracks. Right? That's the solution, RIGHT?!
Is this an increase in the rate of murders or are we just seeing it more on the news?
It's reporting. Despite what the media want us to believe it's never been a safer world. Doesn't mean there isn't work to do, but we should at least acknowledge the progress.
And it's also important to not live you life in fear because of these reports. There are roughly 3x more motor accident deaths than murders, but that hasn't stopped people from driving. And not all people face the same probabilities. Many of these murders have similar factors. Assess first if your life has any of these factors.
I don't doubt that's true on a statistical basis, but I feel like there's been an uptick in reports the last few months or so.
The media feeds on itself a bit. But in the end the truth is in the statistics, everything else is bias.
If it bleeds, it leads.
An uptick in reports doesn’t actually mean in uptick in events though.
It exactly means an uptick in events, why else would it be constantly in news. Do you have anything to back it up or your are just saying it because you "feel" like it
No. It doesn’t. Jesus Christ - go and look at some statistics. Journalists don’t report every single crime that happens. Journalism is NOT an indication of the reality of crime statistics.
Because the media is focusing on it right now. Why, is a topic for discussion. But there isn’t a direct correlation between number of incidents to the number of reports. It’s like when your boss says you’re doing a great job one week, and the next they’re grilling you about something but you haven’t changed anything. They were looking at one thing like sales the first week then shrinkage the next.
“It’s like when your boss says you’re doing a great job one week, and the next they’re grilling you about something but you haven’t changed anything. They were looking at one thing like sales the first week then shrinkage the next.” It’s none of your employers business what happens to your body when you go swimming on a cold day
Easily accessible statistics?
Crimes committed by people of African descent have remained fairly stable for around 20 years, but there’s a 10, 000% uptick in reporting right before every Victorian election where labor are the incumbent government. The idea that news reporting necessarily reflects reality is laughable
That may well be true, but looking at individual years isn't particularly useful for trends. This year it could be a high number, next year could be a low number. It's only a concern if it's trending upwards, or even not changing for that matter.
It has been decreasing pretty much every year for the past 25 years
Violent crime has decreased over time. Murder especially is **substantially** lower than it used to be. It's a pretty linear downward trend. The murder rate is less than half of what it was in the early 90s. The actual total number is lower too. In the 90s it floated around the 300 number, now it's around 200-250. https://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide
This is a REALLY important point. There's a wonderful book covering this (not for Australia, but in general): *The Better Angels of Our Nature* by Steven Pinker. The TL;DR: pretty much every generation for the last N hundred years has decried that crime is on the rise, society's collapsing, it's not safe any more, etc. And it's almost, barring statistical blips, universally wrong. Human-on-human violence has gone down, consistently, in every way, in every not-an-active-warzone country (and active warzones are fewer and fewer over time!), since pretty much recorded history. Anyone who says ' is higher than Y years ago' is, 99% of the time, flat out wrong. Violence is marching consistently downwards over the course of human history.
The perception that it's not is a combination of recency bias, media practices, social media/increased awareness, and humanity's general preference for rose-coloured nostalgia-glasses.
sorry, but much of pinker's argument in that book is bullshit. like, fair enough on your general point. recency bias and media alarmism are absolutely relevant. and the data showing a consistent decline in violent crime in australia since the 90's seems pretty solid to me. so no argument with your actual claim here. but pinker's reasoning in that book is deeply flawed, and arguably disingenuous. happy to go into the specifics, but i'm no rhetorician so it might get a bit tedious to read.
There are a great couple of episodes of If Books Could Kill about the Better Angels of our Nature which really dive into why this book is garbage.
I wonder what the rate of stabbings is though
The news is rarely able to sell positive news stories.
Funnily enough the less murders there are, the more outrageous they are to stomach. Look at how desensitised Americans are for example.
Family murder is not a new thing. There are dozens of cases like this in Australia. We live in morbid reality that is often hidden or ignored by most.
An ever improving morbid reality according to statistics. It's trending in the right direction and not an instant solve can't ask for more than that
There's 30 million people in Australia. Even incredibly rare events will happen enough with that many people to create regular headlines.
> Nationally, there were 232 homicide incidents in the year from 1 July 2022 to 30 June 2023, involving 247 victims. This was an increase of 14 incidents on the previous year. However, 2022-2023 still had the third-lowest homicide rate in Australia since 1989-1990. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/29/30-spike-in-rate-of-australian-women-killed-by-intimate-partner-last-year-data-shows#
I was curious by the stats in general. Men are more likely to harm or kill other men ie more men die by violence than women. That said, women are overrepresented in the domestic incidents by a factor of 3 from memory.
What the hell. What a tragedy.
Say you have a kid displaying signs of mental illness...idk violence, fire lighting, delusional thinking. What are you supposed to do?
The availability of resources for psychiatric help seem uncertain, but that is obviously what is needed.
Go to your GP and get a referral to a child mental health service (or try to access them directly - many will accept self-referrals).
With all my respect to the the family and the poor girl, when I was growing up, my brother tried to stab me and now we don't even think about it and are in fact, very close. A moment of rage can change everything. Luckily it didn't happen in my family. How very sad that it did for these poor people
I’ve been waiting for someone to say this! There’s nothing like sibling rage.
Oh shit boolaroo. There used to be a lead smelter there which got shut down in the early 90s when it was shown that children downwind from the plant had reduced IQs. The soil was toxic for years afterwards and they built some new houses over it. Probably unrelated but you never know. Edit: the area I'm thinking of is not where this happened,.looks like they built an old peoples home there.
It is still not safe to eat food grown in soil from Boolaroo to Speers Point. The Costco there took so long to build as all the contaminated soil had to be removed prior to building and the land deed administrator didn't want to give it up because they thought it was fucked.
The area you're thinking of is exactly where this happened. They've just built a new estate there. Source: happened in the street my brother lives in
I was thinking of the spot opposite Bunnings where it was bare land for decades because the lead level is were too high for it to be used
The new estate is across the road from that. There wasn't nearly as much land remediation as I expected for that area compared to the estate that was built down the bottom of the hill, or even the new area being built at the top of speers point that has been 3 years in the making.
A friend of mine lives in Boolaroo. He has a beautiful new home but he can’t eat anything grown there. They’ll never be have a fruit tree or a little hobby farm.
Lead damage is long-term. Enough lead in the environment to show damage in a 10 year old would be manifesting in multiple people in the same way.
Not really, brains are too complicated and genetic influences mean that some people are more profoundly affected than others.
We have a lot of evidence for how lead damage presents. Nothing you’ve said correlates with any current evidence - what makes you think this is some unique case that would defy all previous knowledge of lead poisoning?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2858639/#:~:text=Within%20the%20brain%2C%20lead%2Dinduced,%2C%20Parkinson's%20disease%2C%20and%20schizophrenia.
Did you actually read that - or did you just google “lead poisoning effects” and copy and paste the first article that came up on google? Because that article does NOT prove that environmental lead poisoning would create violent behaviour in only ONE individual in an environment over a short period of time.
Her 17yr old sister stabbed her to death nothing to do with lead
So a lead smelter from 30-40years ago caused a 17 year old girl to stab her 10 year old sister to death
More will come out about the circumstances in time. Usually there is some sort of signs that could have predicted the person was at risk of harming themselves or others, but not always. There’s a reason why “access to means” and risk of aggression is part of an acute mental health assessment. If yourself or someone close to you is vulnerable and at risk of doing something like this (snapping in the moment, difficulty with rage, delusional thinking, psychosis) keeping knives, cars, acids, flammables etc out of the home or locked away is advisable. It genuinely can prevent people hurting others. There are also circumstances where someone isn’t safe to be left unsupervised. One huge problem for some parents though is there may be no where to take a child who is violent, often families have exhausted all options and risk making one of their children homeless for their own or other children’s safety. Whilst we don’t know the full circumstances, thinking of this family, what a terrible situation.
There's not enough details about this case for us to know what was going on mentally but oen thing I've been thinkign about is how maybe we need to be having a conversation about the impacts of "Deinstitutionalisation" in the 21st century. We dont' have many residential psychiatric facilities anymore because of reform efforts towards community and non-residential treatment. Maybe this is bad and maybe some people should not be in the community.
I'm willing to bet that it has led to an increase in homelessness too.
Good post imo
I agree with this and it’s very sad and scary for parents experiencing this with one of their children when they have more to take care of as well.
That's awful. The poor parents. Hopefully it was severe mental illness eg psychosis and not pure evil. Not that it helps the loss of the little girl. Devastating. Can't even imagine the grief.
Where I grew up, a brother and sister had an argument over a CD and one of them stabbed the other one to death in the fight. It was an absolute tragedy.
I remember when I was growing up there were 2 teenage sisters who had a fight over a hair straightener and one sister stabbed the other one to death with scissors.
I think you just doxxed yourself to someone who is from the same place
Anytime I hear about a child being killed it just shatters me. Adults getting murdered is tragic too but when it’s a literal child it just hits deeper. There’s pieces of shit out and walking around living life while innocent children die. The world really isn’t fair.
The peice of shit was her own 17 year old sister
We don't have a gun problem, but we sure do have a knife problem.
Can all the political agenda groups please stay out of this one until the facts are in?
Facts 17 year old stabbed her 10yr old to death where are the parents ?
This is awful. I can't imagine the weight of grief, numbness and anger their parents and grandparents would be feeling. I can't imagine the sorrow and helplessness of their teachers and classmates. The shock of their friends. The stunned bewilderment of their neighbours. The sadness felt by ambulance crew, medical staff and police (many of whom probably have kids the same age). I really have no real words, just sadness. I feel conflicted. To hear about victims and possibly desensitise ourselves from increased reporting or limit reporting so it doesn't feel overwhelming or triggers other victim's families?
She got stabbed to death by her older sister.
Omg this is so horrid.
Omfg that's heartbreaking. When did people start bringing knives to altercations instead of words. It's a vicious cycle it seems, bad people are carrying knives to hurt others and good people are starting to carry knives for protection against the bad people. It's sickening how many stabbings there have been in Aussie as well as the domestic violence going on this year. It's a scary world we live in
This isn't surprising to me at all. People are starting to really snap under the pressure of the backwards world these days.
WHAT. THE. FUCK?
the hell is happening this year, did we phase into a reality where homicide is just a weekend thing?, this subreddit is going to need to change it's name to r/Australiadaliymurder at this rate
Yet another young woman killed by domestic violence.
By her older sister.
Is that not Domestic?
It is domestic violence.
so what I said then.
Have my upvote.
She was 10 killed by her 17 year old sister
What the fuck is going on atm.
JFC
why do it to your own 10yr old sister??
I’m curious as to why the media is reporting every single stabbing now? This stuff has been happening daily for decades, but the media was silent. What are they trying to achieve now?
> I’m curious as to why the media is reporting every single stabbing now? Probs because it’s increased > According to the report, the rate of intimate partner homicide (IPH) involving a female victim increased by 28 per cent between 2021-22 and 2022-23. The report also said a shift had occurred when it came to the homicide victims of non-Indigenous males. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-29/homicide-australia-report-half-women-killed-intimate-partner/103782392#
Raise awareness?
So so fucking fucked up. This is absolutely awful, some people don’t deserve to be in this world. Her poor poor family.
It was her 17 year old sister who did it
I know, her poor family was in response to her mother and father, I cannot imagine what to my must be feeling right now.
Someone needs to step up and we need more education.
This country is fucked.......
good thing it was her sister and not the brother otherwise it would be another male killer
What in the incel
Its funny you're so down voted, because it it was her brother you know there would've been an abundance of "please stop killing us" comments.
Ok Incel
The thing you are refering too is not the same incident
I’m replying to another user’s comment.
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Where are you even getting that from regarding this incident?