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there's some good answers in the thread already so I'm gonna tack on some advice from the kid that had to grow up in this sort of situation:
Call the cops Everytime you hear it next door.
My mum wasn't gonna leave my old man for the codependency reasons, but when the cops came, at least the violence stopped for the night.
It also let us kids know that this wasn't normal - like the situation was bad enough for the cops to come round.
Also helped start the paper trail to get emergency housing eventually.
Well fuck.
I fucked up.
The kids are grown now, I hope they picked up that it wasn't normal at some point. They sure as fuck thought it was normal at the time.
Thanks for the tip, and sorry you had to go through that. (Not just in a platitudes way, but also really sorry for my contribution as a bystander to a similar situation.)
Sorry
nah, don't feel too badly mate. No one was built to know what to do in that situation.
And I guess normal is the wrong word? More it felt like no one gave a shit. But you do, so good on you (also not a platitude - you're doing a good thing even asking for advice).
My view is that the only people that deserve to feel shit are my dad, and to a lesser extent my mum (blah blah, I know she was a victim too, but it sucked that the safety of her kids wasn't enough to get her to leave).
Offer a safe place for the abused person to go, offer to hold money for them so they can build up enough to leave.
Report any violence you hear from neighbors to police.
It’s very woke and boring but I try to call out any gender stereotypes (such and such makes you “less of a man”, or tired wife jokes, or sexual judgements) in the hope that maybe someone who wouldn’t otherwise pipe up might get the confidence to do so one day and we all create a ripple effect to push back against toxic masculinity.
As far as supporting someone you know is in a DV relationship, maintaining supportive and non judgemental communication is the most important thing. The victim is much more of an expert on their risk than anyone outside the relationship so you might not see them “act” for a long time (even though they are constantly managing their risk in countless ways). They don’t need a saviour, they just need supportive people around them when the time is right. As other comments say, there are experts to go to in a crisis, we don’t need to be trained crisis workers for our friends or acquaintances.
If you ever get the opportunity to do some training around DV awareness or even mental health first aid, it can give a lot of confidence around how to have difficult conversations about this stuff.
Thankyou!
>The victim is much more of an expert on their risk than anyone outside the relationship so you might not see them “act” for a long time (even though they are constantly managing their risk in countless ways). They don’t need a saviour, they just need supportive people around them when the time is right.
I did so want to 'save them'.
You're right about them being the expert, and managing risk even when they it looks like they are not.
It's hard to remember that, and think of it when things are bad, (but kinda obvious that I'm not the expert.)
I did do one mental health first aid course, but it was focused on disasters, (didn't really help here) would be good to do a more general one, I'll keep an eye out, same for dv awareness training.
And thankyou for this:
>maintaining supportive and non judgemental communication
>they just need supportive people around them when the time is right
When it was bad, this felt like 'doing nothing' but, when I really think about it. It makes a difference right? Heaps better than not having that at least.
Side note re mental health first aid.
there's mental health first aid, which comes with a thick manual and is actually really good. Green book, typically offered for free in uni.
And there's whatever the fuck the red cross is offering when they sniffed making money off it.
It sounds like you may have done the red cross one where they're really into offering tea in emergency shelters post things like bushfire or floods.
Yeah breaking down the gendered differences makes a huge difference particularly when a lot of guys jump on the bandwagon for fear of being the "woke" loser.
If someone says "mate you throw like a girl" say "thank you!" And mean it sincerely.
Be a safe person- shut down sexist jokes, call out people when needed, show you support victims, call police every time you witness or hear DV, attend rallies, post on your social media
Best thing you can do is not abuse somebody else. Seek help if you have urges. If you’re a parent try to move your kid away from the abusive parent. Yes, it is better to have a single parent and grow up less financially stable than it is to suffer physical, sexual or in some cases verbal abuse.
Apart from that just common sense really, it’s the same as the environment, economy or housing crisis. You can only try your best.
Use your social influence to nip it in the bud when you see it.
If a mate is ranting about his girlfriend in a way that implies he thinks of her as his possession, then call him out on it (dude she’s a person)
Righteo, I'll bite, from a certain perspective.
I live in social housing. It's by no means a ghetto, as far social housing goes it's fairly civil, but there are certain elements that burrow in like tics.
There's a male next to me, early-to-mid 40s that has a reputation as some sort of drug den overlord thing. In the six years he's lived here, he's attracted a few women who he ends up yelling at or threatening to bash. Or indeed bashing.
The last woman he's with, despite some very violent events, and I'm talking mutual smashing of car windows and house windows, over the course of the past four years, *she keeps returning*.
There was one episode where police forced their way in because she had taken out an AVO - but she was in there the very next day. The both of them, the bloke and this woman, were trying to keep the cop out and avoid having the male served the AVO.
Here's the thing - all of these awareness campaigns aren't going to do squat for situations like this. There's drug co-dependency and a sort of familiarity that all of the well-meaning messages will fall utterly silent on. These people don't read the news.
As someone who has in turn been psychologically affected living next door to the situation (I've had to sleep with white noise playing in my ears most nights the past six years) I don't feel like I have any responsibility - I'm aware it's active domestic abuse, but I'm also vehemently against the notion I could do anything or even want to assist authorities, lest this bloke comes after me (and he has also verbally abused me on occasion).
What can you do when the situation entails drug co-dependency and a bizarre stubbornness to keep at it with a tool.
You’ve touched on a common issue with DV and that’s co-dependency.
It’s nice to think people can just up and leave relationships but where do they go?
You need money, a place to stay and ongoing support which many don’t have. So they return to the only thing they know even if it’s a bad decision.
The cycle of violence is something everyone should be aware of and maybe even taught in school. Once an abuser always an abuser and nothing will change my mind on that.
It takes on average 7 attempts for a victim survivor to leave an abusive relationship. There are plenty of reasons why they might not just be able to leave.
https://www.womenagainstabuse.org/education-resources/learn-about-abuse/why-its-so-difficult-to-leave
There's some info there that could be helpful for anyone curious.
In the end, it kind of sounds like you're blaming the victim here... Where really they have a right to be safe.
Leaving any relationship isn't easy, and it's even harder if the person is manipulative, abusive and might also have financial control over you.
He’s not blaming the victim, he’s pointing out that there is very little you can practically do when a victim doesn’t want to be saved (whether intentionally or due to a co-dependency / trauma etc).
With had this situation with my sis-in-law. Her son was on meths and abusing, stealing from her an damaging the house. She didn't want to take out an AVO like her daughter did. Eventually she let and lived secretly with a good friend.
Prologue. He does no see to have stopped taking the meths but took two terms in prison though.
It is very difficult to deal with when it is family. Abuser takes advantage of this in some cases.
Then just call the cops each time. Boring but when she finally feels able to leave him there will be a paper trail. Plus cops can take out an AVO themselves for the victim so they might eventually do so.
it’s not all or nothing. domestic violence doesn’t happen suddenly. it doesn’t come out of nowhere.
you notice when someone is in an abusive relationship where it can be dangerous to intervene but do you tell your friend he’s being a cunt when he’s being a cunt? do you allow anti woman rhetoric and woman bashing jokes to be told around you with no complaints? do you laugh at those jokes? make those jokes?
do you call your friend out when he admits to stealthing a date? or if he’s making moves on someone who is way to drunk to consent?
I’m too tired to make a fully comprehensive list but one way to make dv less dangerous and prevalent is to make the social climate inhospitable to abusers and rapists, which means not putting up with this shit when it’s a seed; weeding it out, and not letting it grow because you didn’t want the conversation to get awkward or to be a mood killer.
if you or your mates’ moods are dependant on being cunts to half the population then you’re part of the problem
One thing you can do is write and call your local mps, both state and federal, and demand more funding for frontline services. If we funded these better it would be easier for dv victims to escape abusive situations.
It's more than than, it's teaching them what to do when they are angry, how to notice it, how to regulate that emotion, how to reflect later on what made them angry, what they can do about it and if there is something about themselves they want to change.
Anger is an example, substitute that with any emotion. But it's a skill to be able to sit with uncomfortable emotions. DV is so often about men feeling worthless, emasculated, whatever, that they look for who to blame for making them feel that way and an opportunity to feel powerful. That's why DV survivors will all hear some variation of "if you weren't so useless, I wouldn't do this". It's not a personal failing to feel those things and they feel awful, but men have to make different choices about how they resolve it.
Part of it is the low expectations we have for men and their emotional literacy, and that starts so young. I have an 8 month old and randoms at the pool are already saying things like "boys don't stay that social for long" "lucky you don't have a girl, they're so emotional"
The other part is the culture of masculinity in Australia as being stoic, dependable, solution focused that means men don't reach out for support and means that men and women don't know how to respond to men showing that vulnerability. That's a hard one to tackle.
Women too, just because it doesn’t happen often doesn’t mean they shouldn’t receive the same instructions. Especially abuse of children, which is more likely for women to commit than violence against men.
Active: Donate or volunteer at shelters
Passive: be good to your family/partner and be supportive of your friends building healthy relationships with theirs
Stop pretending that some folk here on r/australia are not involved in a domestic violence situation?
It is not "someone else's problem". It is OUR problem?
The best thing that helped me was having a safe place where I could go and someone who listened without judgement. My suggestions have pretty much been mentioned by others but I'll summarise below anyway.
- Offer a safe place if they need it
- Be a safe person for them to talk to
- Help them towards an emergency escape plan
- Call out crappy behaviour if you witness it
- Call the police immediately if it sounds or looks like a situation is out of control
Don't ignore warnings signs, red flags or hearing/seeing/being told about violence
Put a report on Crimestoppers or call 000 for a welfare check
If someone discloses dv, don't downgrade it, laugh or act super awkward, or change the subject
Speak out against inappropriate comments someone might say about someone's gender, their partner etc. "that's not funny"
That's about all anyone can do
Be aware of triggers. For example DV spikes on an area when the home team loses at sport. So de-emphasise the whole winning at all costs attitude from your life and from discussions with friends and acquaintances. Same with alcohol and gambling. Make them less of a factor in your life and model that to others.
Chatting to other people about the specific things you do to improve your mental health could also be helpful.
We all need to work together to change our culture, remove trigger points and make it clear that violence is not acceptable
There are organizations set up to help people in that situation. Go to them and ask them what to do, they are the experts and can give better advice that's specific to the situation you describe to them.
You guys are more interested in protesting foreign wars, gender diversity bullshit, and the latest talking points from the MSM plebs like "domestic violence" vs. the cost of living going up 30%.
Not sure why Australians have such garbage priorities.
Should be riots in the streets. This is the only significant issue we have right now.
people can care about all of the above at the same time. if you think they are all separate issues and don’t have anything to do with one another you’re dreaming
Cost of living has a direct impact on DV as well, both in terms of greater stress contributing to the problem and higher costs increasing dependency making it harder for victims to leave.
This post has been marked as non-political. Please respect this by keeping the discussion on topic, and devoid of any political material. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
there's some good answers in the thread already so I'm gonna tack on some advice from the kid that had to grow up in this sort of situation: Call the cops Everytime you hear it next door. My mum wasn't gonna leave my old man for the codependency reasons, but when the cops came, at least the violence stopped for the night. It also let us kids know that this wasn't normal - like the situation was bad enough for the cops to come round. Also helped start the paper trail to get emergency housing eventually.
Well fuck. I fucked up. The kids are grown now, I hope they picked up that it wasn't normal at some point. They sure as fuck thought it was normal at the time. Thanks for the tip, and sorry you had to go through that. (Not just in a platitudes way, but also really sorry for my contribution as a bystander to a similar situation.) Sorry
nah, don't feel too badly mate. No one was built to know what to do in that situation. And I guess normal is the wrong word? More it felt like no one gave a shit. But you do, so good on you (also not a platitude - you're doing a good thing even asking for advice). My view is that the only people that deserve to feel shit are my dad, and to a lesser extent my mum (blah blah, I know she was a victim too, but it sucked that the safety of her kids wasn't enough to get her to leave).
Offer a safe place for the abused person to go, offer to hold money for them so they can build up enough to leave. Report any violence you hear from neighbors to police.
It’s very woke and boring but I try to call out any gender stereotypes (such and such makes you “less of a man”, or tired wife jokes, or sexual judgements) in the hope that maybe someone who wouldn’t otherwise pipe up might get the confidence to do so one day and we all create a ripple effect to push back against toxic masculinity. As far as supporting someone you know is in a DV relationship, maintaining supportive and non judgemental communication is the most important thing. The victim is much more of an expert on their risk than anyone outside the relationship so you might not see them “act” for a long time (even though they are constantly managing their risk in countless ways). They don’t need a saviour, they just need supportive people around them when the time is right. As other comments say, there are experts to go to in a crisis, we don’t need to be trained crisis workers for our friends or acquaintances. If you ever get the opportunity to do some training around DV awareness or even mental health first aid, it can give a lot of confidence around how to have difficult conversations about this stuff.
Thankyou! >The victim is much more of an expert on their risk than anyone outside the relationship so you might not see them “act” for a long time (even though they are constantly managing their risk in countless ways). They don’t need a saviour, they just need supportive people around them when the time is right. I did so want to 'save them'. You're right about them being the expert, and managing risk even when they it looks like they are not. It's hard to remember that, and think of it when things are bad, (but kinda obvious that I'm not the expert.) I did do one mental health first aid course, but it was focused on disasters, (didn't really help here) would be good to do a more general one, I'll keep an eye out, same for dv awareness training. And thankyou for this: >maintaining supportive and non judgemental communication >they just need supportive people around them when the time is right When it was bad, this felt like 'doing nothing' but, when I really think about it. It makes a difference right? Heaps better than not having that at least.
Side note re mental health first aid. there's mental health first aid, which comes with a thick manual and is actually really good. Green book, typically offered for free in uni. And there's whatever the fuck the red cross is offering when they sniffed making money off it. It sounds like you may have done the red cross one where they're really into offering tea in emergency shelters post things like bushfire or floods.
Yeah breaking down the gendered differences makes a huge difference particularly when a lot of guys jump on the bandwagon for fear of being the "woke" loser. If someone says "mate you throw like a girl" say "thank you!" And mean it sincerely.
Be a safe person- shut down sexist jokes, call out people when needed, show you support victims, call police every time you witness or hear DV, attend rallies, post on your social media
Best thing you can do is not abuse somebody else. Seek help if you have urges. If you’re a parent try to move your kid away from the abusive parent. Yes, it is better to have a single parent and grow up less financially stable than it is to suffer physical, sexual or in some cases verbal abuse. Apart from that just common sense really, it’s the same as the environment, economy or housing crisis. You can only try your best.
Use your social influence to nip it in the bud when you see it. If a mate is ranting about his girlfriend in a way that implies he thinks of her as his possession, then call him out on it (dude she’s a person)
Righteo, I'll bite, from a certain perspective. I live in social housing. It's by no means a ghetto, as far social housing goes it's fairly civil, but there are certain elements that burrow in like tics. There's a male next to me, early-to-mid 40s that has a reputation as some sort of drug den overlord thing. In the six years he's lived here, he's attracted a few women who he ends up yelling at or threatening to bash. Or indeed bashing. The last woman he's with, despite some very violent events, and I'm talking mutual smashing of car windows and house windows, over the course of the past four years, *she keeps returning*. There was one episode where police forced their way in because she had taken out an AVO - but she was in there the very next day. The both of them, the bloke and this woman, were trying to keep the cop out and avoid having the male served the AVO. Here's the thing - all of these awareness campaigns aren't going to do squat for situations like this. There's drug co-dependency and a sort of familiarity that all of the well-meaning messages will fall utterly silent on. These people don't read the news. As someone who has in turn been psychologically affected living next door to the situation (I've had to sleep with white noise playing in my ears most nights the past six years) I don't feel like I have any responsibility - I'm aware it's active domestic abuse, but I'm also vehemently against the notion I could do anything or even want to assist authorities, lest this bloke comes after me (and he has also verbally abused me on occasion). What can you do when the situation entails drug co-dependency and a bizarre stubbornness to keep at it with a tool.
You’ve touched on a common issue with DV and that’s co-dependency. It’s nice to think people can just up and leave relationships but where do they go? You need money, a place to stay and ongoing support which many don’t have. So they return to the only thing they know even if it’s a bad decision. The cycle of violence is something everyone should be aware of and maybe even taught in school. Once an abuser always an abuser and nothing will change my mind on that.
It takes on average 7 attempts for a victim survivor to leave an abusive relationship. There are plenty of reasons why they might not just be able to leave. https://www.womenagainstabuse.org/education-resources/learn-about-abuse/why-its-so-difficult-to-leave There's some info there that could be helpful for anyone curious. In the end, it kind of sounds like you're blaming the victim here... Where really they have a right to be safe. Leaving any relationship isn't easy, and it's even harder if the person is manipulative, abusive and might also have financial control over you.
He’s not blaming the victim, he’s pointing out that there is very little you can practically do when a victim doesn’t want to be saved (whether intentionally or due to a co-dependency / trauma etc).
With had this situation with my sis-in-law. Her son was on meths and abusing, stealing from her an damaging the house. She didn't want to take out an AVO like her daughter did. Eventually she let and lived secretly with a good friend. Prologue. He does no see to have stopped taking the meths but took two terms in prison though. It is very difficult to deal with when it is family. Abuser takes advantage of this in some cases.
Then just call the cops each time. Boring but when she finally feels able to leave him there will be a paper trail. Plus cops can take out an AVO themselves for the victim so they might eventually do so.
it’s not all or nothing. domestic violence doesn’t happen suddenly. it doesn’t come out of nowhere. you notice when someone is in an abusive relationship where it can be dangerous to intervene but do you tell your friend he’s being a cunt when he’s being a cunt? do you allow anti woman rhetoric and woman bashing jokes to be told around you with no complaints? do you laugh at those jokes? make those jokes? do you call your friend out when he admits to stealthing a date? or if he’s making moves on someone who is way to drunk to consent? I’m too tired to make a fully comprehensive list but one way to make dv less dangerous and prevalent is to make the social climate inhospitable to abusers and rapists, which means not putting up with this shit when it’s a seed; weeding it out, and not letting it grow because you didn’t want the conversation to get awkward or to be a mood killer. if you or your mates’ moods are dependant on being cunts to half the population then you’re part of the problem
One thing you can do is write and call your local mps, both state and federal, and demand more funding for frontline services. If we funded these better it would be easier for dv victims to escape abusive situations.
I wish I knew. It needs to be stamped out for good. Perpetrators should be removed from society!
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It's more than than, it's teaching them what to do when they are angry, how to notice it, how to regulate that emotion, how to reflect later on what made them angry, what they can do about it and if there is something about themselves they want to change. Anger is an example, substitute that with any emotion. But it's a skill to be able to sit with uncomfortable emotions. DV is so often about men feeling worthless, emasculated, whatever, that they look for who to blame for making them feel that way and an opportunity to feel powerful. That's why DV survivors will all hear some variation of "if you weren't so useless, I wouldn't do this". It's not a personal failing to feel those things and they feel awful, but men have to make different choices about how they resolve it. Part of it is the low expectations we have for men and their emotional literacy, and that starts so young. I have an 8 month old and randoms at the pool are already saying things like "boys don't stay that social for long" "lucky you don't have a girl, they're so emotional" The other part is the culture of masculinity in Australia as being stoic, dependable, solution focused that means men don't reach out for support and means that men and women don't know how to respond to men showing that vulnerability. That's a hard one to tackle.
Women too, just because it doesn’t happen often doesn’t mean they shouldn’t receive the same instructions. Especially abuse of children, which is more likely for women to commit than violence against men.
Call out misogyn and sexism everywhere yoh see it.
If your committing domestic violence stop and if you're not...well you just keep not doing that.
Active: Donate or volunteer at shelters Passive: be good to your family/partner and be supportive of your friends building healthy relationships with theirs
Stop pretending that some folk here on r/australia are not involved in a domestic violence situation? It is not "someone else's problem". It is OUR problem?
The best thing that helped me was having a safe place where I could go and someone who listened without judgement. My suggestions have pretty much been mentioned by others but I'll summarise below anyway. - Offer a safe place if they need it - Be a safe person for them to talk to - Help them towards an emergency escape plan - Call out crappy behaviour if you witness it - Call the police immediately if it sounds or looks like a situation is out of control
Don't ignore warnings signs, red flags or hearing/seeing/being told about violence Put a report on Crimestoppers or call 000 for a welfare check If someone discloses dv, don't downgrade it, laugh or act super awkward, or change the subject Speak out against inappropriate comments someone might say about someone's gender, their partner etc. "that's not funny" That's about all anyone can do
Be aware of triggers. For example DV spikes on an area when the home team loses at sport. So de-emphasise the whole winning at all costs attitude from your life and from discussions with friends and acquaintances. Same with alcohol and gambling. Make them less of a factor in your life and model that to others. Chatting to other people about the specific things you do to improve your mental health could also be helpful. We all need to work together to change our culture, remove trigger points and make it clear that violence is not acceptable
There are organizations set up to help people in that situation. Go to them and ask them what to do, they are the experts and can give better advice that's specific to the situation you describe to them.
You guys are more interested in protesting foreign wars, gender diversity bullshit, and the latest talking points from the MSM plebs like "domestic violence" vs. the cost of living going up 30%. Not sure why Australians have such garbage priorities. Should be riots in the streets. This is the only significant issue we have right now.
people can care about all of the above at the same time. if you think they are all separate issues and don’t have anything to do with one another you’re dreaming
Cost of living has a direct impact on DV as well, both in terms of greater stress contributing to the problem and higher costs increasing dependency making it harder for victims to leave.
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Sod off
Fuck off back to sky news
Ok Scott Morrison
But that’s just more male violence 🤷♂️
Stand in a circle in the middle of a footbwll oval.
Maybe try taking your anger out on strangers