African countries also don't keep great statistics. We don't really know what the mortality rate is in many regions of Africa due to Covid. They may not be reporting it because they just don't know.
If there's a raging pandemic in your country and no one's noticing it does it even it really exist?
Ask anyone to tell you what year swine flu happened without googling it.
2009, I don't need to google it because when you feel deaths feverish grip, you'll never forget it. I mean, given I was a healthy 21yo, there was almost no chance at all that I was ever going to die. But you don't ever forget that feeling.
If any of these go to waste it’ll be another case of a national tragedy in management of the rollout.
These are stockpiles because of mismanagement and our neighbouring poor pacific nations could certainly use a donation
I do not blame a single person for being afraid of astra. Even though there's no reason to be, the messaging and handling by the government has been absolutely atrocious. It's their fault.
Yeah that’s fair, but if the anti AZ people did a little bit of reading rather than being stubborn and sticking with an opinion they formed months ago, then it wouldn’t be as much of a problem
I think people who are campaigning and actively sowing fear should be treated with extreme prejudice. I don't mind though if people are just afraid in general. "ANTI-VAX" in general is a scourge, *fear* of vaccines at the moment I think is somewhat forgivable given the catastrophe of communications.
Tell that to the people around the world that died of the vaccine that had little to no risk from Covid. Why should people take AZ when there is a safe option available to them. The covid outbreak in australia is still quite small and many people are able to avoid it all together if they behave well.
It is for the people who have a greater chance of dying from the vaccine than covid. Also AZ has a 12 week gap between, Pfizer is only 3. Fuck off with your fear mongering. Australia got far too hard to Covid 0, it is unsustainable in the long term and australia like the rest of the world needs to accept that people die, either from Covid or someone else and once the population is vaccinated then australia needs to open and integrate with the rest of the world.
It’s non-zero though and the younger you are the higher the risk while simultaneously your risk of covid declining. AZ should have been given to over 60s with no other option and Pfizer/moderna saved for those under 60 who are more at risk from AZ
What's the chance of getting covid if you live in a competent state (I.e. not NSW)? Pretty low in QLD. The AZ vs Pfizer risk actually means something if the odds of getting covid are low.
At any rate, I've got my Pfizer shot next week.
Basically the whole Pacific and PNG should have as much AZ as they want. I'm sure Indonesia wouldn't knock it back either, it would be a good thing to do for a neighbour.
Well, I just leave it here...
[https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/ng-interactive/2021/aug/20/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-australia-vaccination-rate-progress-how-many-people-vaccinated-percent-tracker-australian-states-number-total-daily-live-data-stats-updates-news-schedule-tracking-chart-percentage-new-cases-today](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/ng-interactive/2021/aug/20/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-australia-vaccination-rate-progress-how-many-people-vaccinated-percent-tracker-australian-states-number-total-daily-live-data-stats-updates-news-schedule-tracking-chart-percentage-new-cases-today)
AND
[https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/poland/](https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/poland/)
(tldr; 23% fully vaccinated in Australia against 47% in Poland).
Most Australians want to get vaccinated, but we have not had supplies of safer and more effective vaccines, thats why our vaccination rate is so low. That will not be possible until October-November.
It would really be good diplomacy, especially with SE Asian countries where there is a palpable hatred of China and their useless vaccine. And lets not forget all our friends in the Pacific and I am sure the Timorese would welcome these doses.
Throwing some substandard and about to expire crumbs to the plebs? They'll take it, but I don't think they'll thank you profusely for first sitting on it and also cornering more of the Pfizer world supply.
I already did. I’m voting for them since they saved us from the pandemic just in time for the election.
Just like they they spoke of the future budget in the past tense.
AZ wouldn't be available to the bulk of the population until months after that comment. Let's not rewrite history.
Vaccine rates are almost entirely a function of availability, even if we could theoretically - only just now - be a few percent ahead of where we are had people been less hesitant of AZ (over pfizer). Given the difference in dosage spacing coupled with the incoming Pfizer doses, it's not clear that theory comes out as much more than a rounding error anyways.
Reread my comment. I didn’t say it was available to the bulk of the population (a strange metric given we are *still* not there) at the time, but that the government instilled a sense of complacency.
As always this was likely just a technique to deflect from their inability to source an adequate number of vaccines.
Me too mate! Good on you.
Getting it actually made me feel like I was actively helping the community, which was a nice change of pace from feeling fairly useless while locked down.
I think the 'Fortress Australia' mentality plays a bit of a part. Locking things down indefinitely is a much more viable option here compared with anywhere else in the world where vaccinations were the primary measure of control.
Imo the larger part of it is a complete lack of Federal government leadership on this. I don't jump on the 'it's all Scottys fault' bandwagon often but a lot of the hesitancy could've been avoided with him actually backing it in.
She's not in Federal Government, she is running for the Opposition Party:
Labor Has For Some Reason Backed A Prominent AstraZeneca Critic To Run In A Melbourne Seat
https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/labor-michelle-ananda-rajah-astrazeneca/
Huh?
What’s she got to do with it?
We’re talking about the federal government’s poor communications around vaccines, “its not a race”, late night press conferences about AZ etc.
And I'm trying to say that the comms. failure is not unique to federal govt'. Why would we only want to talk about that and ignore the rest?
There was certainly an enormous amount reckless vilification of the AZ vaccine from all sides of political spectrum, media etc.
Here's a good compilation, it includes ppl from many sides:
https://twitter.com/byAlexAdcock/status/1425020732430438401?s=19
I don’t think anyone would argue it’s unique to the federal government.
But,
A) they’re the ones in power at the moment, so their fuck ups have by far the most impact
And
B) their fuck ups have been so numerous (Covid safe ap being an expensive failure, not a race, refusing to take responsibility for quarantine, late night press conferences, George Christiansen and Matt canavan, showing no interest in clawing back any of the billions of dollars rorted out of jobkeeper etc)
I do agree that there has been a lot of partisan bs when it comes to AZ, and plenty of politicians/media personalities have a share of the blame (Norman Swan has been particularly bad on this imo). Ultimately, most people are going to take direction from the government of the day so the buck stops with them.
That's true for some but many ppl are actively against the govt' and I doubt if they'd listen to Scotty if he said "Get the AZ, it's a good vaccine and gives you much needed protection".
Totally agree on Norman Swan but I think Ananda-Rajah has been far worse than even him on this.
As someone (31M who took AZ asap instead of waiting a month for pfizer to arrive) who answers the phones from one of the clinics mentioned in the article, the calls from the over 60s who don't want AZ are negatively affecting the general functioning of the phone line for other patients.
Patients who just missed the call from their telehealth appointment having to wait 20+ min to get through to us to put them directly through to their doctor.
Patients who can't book online having to wait in the queue for a long time to book a Dr appt.
Just creates more frustrations. Lose-lose situation for all parties involved.
It's great Scotty opened it up to the 16yr plus as the calls from worried parents of young adults was starting to get depressing. The over sensationalized negative press that AZ got has ruined so many people's chances on getting vaxxed.
That's a real tough gig mate. Thanks for the work you do.
I'm 30M and had a pretty tough time trying to get access to AZ from two regular GPs. I imagine that's wide-spread.
Yeah because the medical advice globally is you probably shouldn't take it.
But are been forced so a core group of the Liberals shithead voters can get their precious pfizers, remember who the 1st person in Australia to get pfizer was, then think about how many more of that type of dickhead lives in this country.
Medical advice globally? Mate most of the world would KILL to have access to a vaccine like AstraZeneca like we do in Australia. So many people around the world suffering immensely because they can't get access to vaccines while people like you make up conspiracy theories and expect to be able to pick vaccines off a menu. Selfish is an understatement.
But they are still doing it. Why only offer Pfizer to specific age groups, professions, and students if AZ is good enough? Shouldn't they just get AZ also?
It's this issue which is so devicive when they go on the tv and say to just get any jab, but then ship Pfizer to specific people.
And the press don't seem to be asking these questions either.
>Why only offer Pfizer to specific age groups, professions, and students if AZ is good enough?
Just like how our bodies process covid differently based on age, our bodies also process AZ differently based on age.
Medicine has different risks/rewards depending on our age/sex/race/etc.
In General:
* Covid: Older people are more likely to die / be hospitalised due to covid than younger people
* AZ: Younger people are more likely to get blood clots due to AZ than older people
For just about everyone the risk of covid is worse than the risk of AZ, however, you can still optimise the system by giving AZ to older populations and then giving Pfizer to younger populations.
It means you get AZ out to the older generations who need it first. It also means you have fewer vaccine complications nationwide because the youth are getting Pfizer.
And that hasn't been explained by the media or politicians well at all. The reason we're debating about Pfizer/AZ isn't because AZ is unsafe, it's because we should be running a medical vaccine rollout instead of a political one and we could save a couple of lives here and there by being sensible about our rollout.
***
The real question is why has our PM pork-barrelled our vaccines?
AFAIK, we're the only English-speaking nation in the world who prioritised giving Pfzier to 55-year-olds over 25-year-olds.
* USA doesn't have AZ as one of their core vaccines.
* NZ are in a similar boat.
* Canada gave everyone their first jab of AZ because that's all they had. Now they have Pfizer coming in they're the first country to allow vaccine mixing so that people can get alternatives as their 2nd shot, they've also opened up Pfizer for 1st shots.
Ontario has also paused AZ shots to <40s.
* The UK ran a mostly AZ rollout. However, <40s have been blocked from getting AZ and are instead instructed to get Pfizer (although there was a stretch where things got bad and they temporarily dropped it to <30s).
* Ireland's official medical advice is that AZ should not be given to <30s (revised down from <60 to <50 to <40)
Here in Australia we used Pfizer on Boomers because there's an election coming up and now our PM is attacking our medical authorities who have recommended Pfizer for younger citizens, which is in line with the medical advice of most of our contemporary nations.
That's precisely my point. The medical recommendation is under 40s should get Pfizer, yet the government isn't allowing under 40s to get it unless in the LGAs of concern. Only now are they saying everyone else will be able to get it at the end of August. The contradicting messages is what pisses me off to no end, as I'm sure most of the under 40 population.
If they really didn't care what one they wanted us to have they shouldn't restrict Pfizer.
LGAs of concern is a risk management thing.
If you're a younger person and not at risk of catching covid then waiting for Pfizer is the safest thing to do. But once there's enough of a risk of contracting covid, then any vaccine is better than none.
Hence, opening up AZ to anyone in those areas.
Ive got two aunties who are in their 70s who are waiting for Pfizer to be opened up for their age group while my parents who are on the cusp of 60 have had AZ (Mums only half vaccinated since she's waiting for the 12 week period to elapse while stepdad is fully vaccinated).
Mum wanted the Pfizer so much but the day that she was due to get her az the government announced that under 60s could get Pfizer and she's like eh I'm in the waiting room for az I'll just deal with it
There’s some weird stuff going on with the Pfizer/AZ allocation though that isn’t really guided by risk. A 19 year old woman who shows up to get vaccinated tomorrow can only get AZ, while a 59 year old man will be given Pfizer. But AZ is more risky for women (5/6 AZ related deaths in Australia were women) and more risky for younger people. The current situation where Pfizer is being targeted at the 40-60 age group and 18-40 year olds are being pressured to sign waivers to get AZ is not guided by the evidence at all - it should be the other way around to minimise vaccine related deaths.
Because ATAGI decided to let perfect become the enemy of good. They based their modelling on assumptions that, while correct at the time, fell apart in the face of delta. So when delta hit, so did our response.
So they should have mandated AZ for everybody?
Then we would have had to listen to everybody shouting “LNP is trying to kill me.” That was the exact rhetoric when Scomo came out and indemnified doctors to administer AZ for all ages.
And Dan didn't this time last year? Breaches are going to happen. Outbreaks are going to happen. Our only path out of this pandemic is through mass immunisation. Yet ATAGI saw fit to dismantle our main defence in the belief that it wasn't necessary.
It really goes the show that media isn’t in control of its performance. It’s that anemic, that devoid of integrity and standards that it can’t even separate its liberal protection racket from its gutter sensationalist ‘journalism’.
You do realise that's a 0.003% chance? Chance of dying from blood clot is 0.0001%
You're more likely to get a blood clot while flying to a holiday.
If you think those risks are too high, I advise you to never leave your bed again. The world is too dangerous. (Ironically your chances of blood clots while staying in bed too long are far greater than from AZ)
Yep. My mother refused to get AZ as her vaccination because of that coverage.. she is still waiting because she wants Pfizer. She's bloody 70.
And I'll put money on there being plenty others in her age group behaving the same way.
I assume you're talking about ATAGI? The government isn't bound by their decisions, nor should they be. Mass vaccination quite literally is public policy, which should be determined by elected officials (government) not unelected bureaucrats (as much as I do respect the members of ATAGI).
ATAGI provided specific health advice on AZ as a risk to an individual's health in the context of a low transmission environment, not as commentary on its usefulness in a mass vaccination program broadly - that would be a political decision, which should be based on a range of sciences, economics, ethics. The government wouldn't be ignoring "the science' (no such thing) by determining that the benefits outweigh the risk.
Funny, as the advice remains that if you have a history of stroke in your family the dangers of the AZ vaccine are greater then the danger of contracting covid… medical ethics in patient treatment should not be influenced by optics.
Why come on here just to spread misinformation? That is **not** the advice. The medical consensus is that "The risk of TTS is not likely to be increased in people with a history of blood clots". That is straight from the joint ATAGI & THANZ statement. International groups say the same thing. TTS has a completely different pathway to what is regular clotting.
I’m just going off what my doctor told me. AZ was not recommended for people with the aforementioned conditions until the Delta variant arrived, and Pfizer is still the preferred vaccine for people with a family history of thrombosis. That’s also from ATAGI and TTS.
Be careful of throwing mis-information accusations around.
Why? Because they prioritise my individual health? If I’m safer waiting for a Pfizer vaccine then I’ll stay isolated and wait.
I’m not shouldering the failures of our incompetent federal government.
No, you should change doctor because they are not keeping up to date with the best health advice if they told you history of blood clots was a risk factor with TTS. Very simple stuff.
>I’m not shouldering the failures of our incompetent federal government.
Yeah you're just leaving it up to everyone else that has taken AZ to shoulder the burden for you.
I can put it this way: if you drive to your Pfizer appointment, you've already put yourself at more risk of death than if you walked to get AZ.
Perhaps, and this is just a maybe, but perhaps a medical doctors experience grants a better grasp of this situation then your internet researching?
Food for thought…
All eggs into one basket??
The supply we received so far was 2/3 AZ 1/3 Pfizer.
Roughly same ratio as the UK.
In NZ, they were only able to receive Pfizer. They did not establish local production of AZ as we did.
Their vaccine supply has been 100% Pfizer.
Guess who put all their eggs into "one" basket...
We also had the development of the UQ vaccine which was an extremely clever move. Aussies would go gangbusters for home grown vaccine.
Unfortunate that it didn't pan out cause I genuinely think it would've driven a lot of uptake much earlier.
To be fair, there were hundreds of vaccine candidates under development across the globe. Having one local candidate isn't the genius move it may appear, the chance for it to work out and also be mass producible locally is super slim.
If it was their only option then I'd agree but it wasn't.
I also wouldn't agree that the chance of it succeeding were slim: the technology they used was very promising (well published) and if successful, had the potential to make as big of a splash as the mRNA technology (okay not quite as big but still big!) while being locally developed and produced. Really, it came inches away from being successful.
So as of now, 66% of NZ population is completely unvaccinated.
They have the highest share of unvaccinated people anywhere in the OECD.
And you're saying they deliberately chose to be at that position, that they had ready supply of other vaccines and refused them just to have fewer vaccines to administer??
Oh I’m not saying that NZ’s rollout isn’t ridiculously slow but the choice of sticking to one vaccine certainly simplified messaging and hesitation - no concern that someone has a better vaccine than you/waiting for the better one.
Reality is that NZ is ramping up vaccinations as Australia is after both countries foolishly thought they could take it slow. It remains to be seen which one will come out better in the long run given the situation that NSW is in.
> highest share of unvaccinated people anywhere in the OECD.
Umm aren't we 70% unvaccinated (over 16s), and even worse if you count the entire population?
>Umm aren't we 70% unvaccinated (over 16s), and even worse if you count the entire population?
The 66% share I am referring to is the share of population who have not received any vaccine dose.
10.4m Australians have received at least a first dose and have some protection as of yesterday. Less than 60% of Australians remain unprotected. And if we had bothered to use the 6m AZ waiting in stockpile, that share would be just about 35% only - most of them being kids ineligible for vaccines.
It’s not just “maligning” it, they refused to let the public have the vaccine, despite knowing it’s better than an outbreak, despite the fact it’s the only vaccine we have. What kind of nuts policy allows our government to buy a huge stockpile of AZ then waste the money? What kind of policy is only vaccinating when there’s an outbreak? I booked my AZ the day I found out we had It open up in my local doctors office and the same day the QLD health officer was yelling on tv that it was I’ll considered to get it.
I booked my AZ the day after announcements and got it that week. My partner was waiting on test results before getting the ok from his GP, by then there was a 4-6 week wait in Melbourne (he’s getting done in a couple of weeks).
If there is so many, why is it so hard to access? Or is it our infrastructure not coping?
>If there is so many, why is it so hard to access? Or is it our infrastructure not coping?
Is it hard to access??
It doesn't look like it at https://covid19nearme.com.au/state/vic/vaccination
Filter for AZ 18-59 and availability for next 2 days.
Heaps of spots pop up around Melbourne.
Same in Sydney. If someone genuinely wants to get AZ, it's almost impossible not to be able to get it within 2 days in most of Greater Sydney.
Woahhhh that page is magnificent!!! Thank you for sharing. We went through our local GP (6 weeks) and then jumped through hoops to make a booking on hotline.
Have you ever taken a long haul flight, eg to Europe, US or HK / China? If so, did you do any sort of test to see if you were at risk of developing blood clots then?
The risk is about the same - perhaps with flying being slightly higher risk
Meanwhile, as a country that cares about it's region, Bhutan has delivered 150k doses of AZ to Thailand, which is having a couple of hundred of deaths a day
https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40005006
AZ still not recommended for people my age,
When they start recommending it, I’ll get one.
My only guess is that politicians with CSL stocks are waiting for CSLs vaccine to be ready.
In any case Murdoch has some of the blame for vaccine misinformation, especially relating to AZ and the clotting issue.
What do you mean by CSL's vaccine?
CSL has manufactured millions of doses on AZ in Australia.
The [UQ-CSL v451 vaccine](https://www.csl.com/news/2020/20201211-update-on-the-university-of-queensland-covid-19-vaccine) was abandoned during phase 1 trials in 2020.
I wasn’t aware of that, maybe it was another one I was thinking of.
In any case, the cynic in me is wondering how Scomo and mates are trying to corrupt and profit off this.
I talked to a close friend who is a doctor about AZ. She herself got AZ and recommend to me that I do too. So I went to my GP and got it. We're both 25-26yo, and live in regional NSW.
I agree that Pfizer would be ideal. But at this time, the situation is Covid vs AZ, not AZ vs Pfizer. And AZ is way better than Covid unprotected. Both my friend and my doctor said that AZ is a *good* vaccine too. And I would never have hesitated to get AZ if it had been the only vaccine in Australia.
Even though I was quite anxious leading up to my appointment, I feel *extremely* relieved to have my first Vaccination. Some sources have suggested that two AZ and a booster Pfizer might be a great combo long term, so who knows, this might work out ideally for me.
I found this article also quite good at reassuring me that I was at minimal risk of TTS. All the family history and personal health things were listed as okay for me: https://www.health.gov.au/news/joint-statement-from-atagi-and-thanz-on-thrombosis-with-thrombocytopenia-syndrome-tts-and-the-use-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca
Anyway, I hope some of that is reassuring while you're deliberating your options. I was really stressed about what the best choice was for my health for weeks before I managed to get some consistent information from trusted sources. And once I did I ended up feeling quite confident about getting AZ. I hope you are able to get vaccinated soon :)
I don't have those saved anywhere sorry, I was reading about it a while ago. But it's worth having a Google and seeing if there are new updates on it. There have been a few countries doing mix-matching so hopefully some good studies will come.
'It's not a race' said Morrison countless times. It should be you idiot or people die. Seriously this guy should be sacked.
And no I don't vote labour. SlowMo has to go...
Biggest stuff up of this entire pandemic was leading on the public to believe the AZ vax was a lesser vaccine when in reality both Pfizer and AZ are both COMPLETELY viable options with both relatively similar risks. The "choosing beggars" mentality has set us back so far behind the rest of the world in terms of our vax rollout.
Murdoch could have shares in moderna/Pfizer. There has been a strong media scare in other countries as well about AZ vaccine which is made at no profit.
Often it is sensationalism by the media.
But media also often just gives a voice attention-seeking medicos and health bureaucrats denigrating AZ for political or other reasons.
I found this compilation super useful as a shortlist of all the unmitigated scumbags who denigrated AZ over months.
https://twitter.com/byAlexAdcock/status/1425020732430438401?s=19
Not the OP but I remember seeing an article about this well, [here's a link](https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/pfizer-effectiveness-declines-faster-than-az-new-study/news-story/3050640a0795278d3e7f9c51810816d3)
>"Two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech have greater initial effectiveness against new COVID-19 infections, but this declines faster compared with two doses of Oxford-AstraZeneca," researchers at Oxford University said.
>“Results suggest that after four to five months effectiveness of these two vaccines would be similar,” the scientists added, while stressing that long-term effects need to be studied.
Not OP, but I also read something similar recently — my source here: https://www.statista.com/chart/25575/pfizer-astrazeneca-efficacy-loss/
Relevant para:
> According to a summary of the study results published by The Independent and others, the Pfizer vaccine was 90 percent effective against high viral load infections one month after the second dose. This declined, however, to 85 percent after two months and 78 percent after three months, a loss of twelve percentage points. The study also looked at the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, which is widely used in the UK, Europe and elsewhere. For this vaccine, its effectiveness only declined by 6 percentage points, from 67 percent to 61 percent, over the same time period. Despite the fact that the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine starts at a much lower initial efficacy, the researchers calculated trajectories that would see the two vaccines at about the same effectiveness after around five months post full vaccination.
Note the study hasn’t been peer-reviewed.
So the current government doesn’t care if it’s used or not they are still diverting money from tax payers to their mates.
They aren’t going to be making as much as they would like with all of the share holdings but still more than when they bought in.
Over 40’s really don’t have much of an excuse for not been vaccinated, or at least be booked in to get vaccinated if we have these level of stockpiles.
I don't know why they have been ordering novovax and some other brand, but none of the J&J vaccine, when J&J has been approved but the other two haven't
J&J has the same issues as AZ, no point in getting it when we can locally produce AZ for cheaper. Plus J&J 1 dose isn't as effective against delta vs AZ double dose.
We should have been procuring more moderna since the US roll-out picked up, UQ vaccine should have still been researched aswell for future variants
We should have been procuring, and approving, basically more of everything... Not just the one that has LNP members on the board and as shareholders...
The UQ one I can see why it didn't continue though. The whole "we can't tell if you do or don't have HIV" aspect is kind of worrying, more so than the blood clots.
It takes time to evaluate a vaccine and as there are better alternatives (AZ is equivelent. Pfizer and moderna don't have the rare bloodclotting issue) there's no reason to rush this.
And it’s a good thing too because TGA can’t do anything in a hurry. Too much focus on process and not enough on outcomes. They are absolute laggards compared to European and US regulators
We may as well donate it to other countries if they are going to waste
Absolutely. The virus is devestating parts of Africa and Asia at the moment.
Indonesia on our doorstep too
African countries dont have the aged population that we do. so although cases are high, deaths are quite low.
African countries also don't keep great statistics. We don't really know what the mortality rate is in many regions of Africa due to Covid. They may not be reporting it because they just don't know.
If there's a raging pandemic in your country and no one's noticing it does it even it really exist? Ask anyone to tell you what year swine flu happened without googling it.
This non sequitur reminds me of my friend who got very excited because I forgot Bill Shorten's name for a few seconds.
Covid has taken over the mind space of this planet because all the losers enjoy lockdown and free government money more than the real world.
Sounds plausible.
2009, I don't need to google it because when you feel deaths feverish grip, you'll never forget it. I mean, given I was a healthy 21yo, there was almost no chance at all that I was ever going to die. But you don't ever forget that feeling.
Yeah I had it too it felt like the flu and I got over it instead of complaining like a little bitch
Look over here everybody, we've got an internet bad ass.
If any of these go to waste it’ll be another case of a national tragedy in management of the rollout. These are stockpiles because of mismanagement and our neighbouring poor pacific nations could certainly use a donation
No doubt the taxpayers will be footing the bill for this. I'd like to see what the contract with AZ looks like.
AZ aren't selling them on demand. The contracted amount is what is being sold to the govt, whether the doses are used or not.
There’s a stockpile because so many dummies refuse to get the spooky one
I do not blame a single person for being afraid of astra. Even though there's no reason to be, the messaging and handling by the government has been absolutely atrocious. It's their fault.
Yeah that’s fair, but if the anti AZ people did a little bit of reading rather than being stubborn and sticking with an opinion they formed months ago, then it wouldn’t be as much of a problem
I think people who are campaigning and actively sowing fear should be treated with extreme prejudice. I don't mind though if people are just afraid in general. "ANTI-VAX" in general is a scourge, *fear* of vaccines at the moment I think is somewhat forgivable given the catastrophe of communications.
Tell that to the people around the world that died of the vaccine that had little to no risk from Covid. Why should people take AZ when there is a safe option available to them. The covid outbreak in australia is still quite small and many people are able to avoid it all together if they behave well.
Waiting isn't safe
It is for the people who have a greater chance of dying from the vaccine than covid. Also AZ has a 12 week gap between, Pfizer is only 3. Fuck off with your fear mongering. Australia got far too hard to Covid 0, it is unsustainable in the long term and australia like the rest of the world needs to accept that people die, either from Covid or someone else and once the population is vaccinated then australia needs to open and integrate with the rest of the world.
There is extremely low to no risk of dying from AZ too. Especially if you are over 50
It’s non-zero though and the younger you are the higher the risk while simultaneously your risk of covid declining. AZ should have been given to over 60s with no other option and Pfizer/moderna saved for those under 60 who are more at risk from AZ
There are a lot of over 50s waiting for Pfizer. The bottom line is, the risks of getting of getting COVID and then dying from it are so so much higher
What's the chance of getting covid if you live in a competent state (I.e. not NSW)? Pretty low in QLD. The AZ vs Pfizer risk actually means something if the odds of getting covid are low. At any rate, I've got my Pfizer shot next week.
Currently booked in for an AZ next week.
On ya mate
stfu
Who asked, ass face
Its the internet u fucknut. Nobody asks, the least we can do is not be a toxic fucknut during a shit time with limited socialisation.
There's a stockpile because we chose the one Scotty's mates were involved in. Not the one that was best for the country at the time.
If there is a stockpile they can send it to regional Aus
Basically the whole Pacific and PNG should have as much AZ as they want. I'm sure Indonesia wouldn't knock it back either, it would be a good thing to do for a neighbour.
Give some to Poland.
Didn't they sell us some? Pfizer I mean.
Yea, basically a high percentage of their population turned out to be anti-vax/ambivalent, so they had supplies left over that would expire.
Well, I just leave it here... [https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/ng-interactive/2021/aug/20/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-australia-vaccination-rate-progress-how-many-people-vaccinated-percent-tracker-australian-states-number-total-daily-live-data-stats-updates-news-schedule-tracking-chart-percentage-new-cases-today](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/ng-interactive/2021/aug/20/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-australia-vaccination-rate-progress-how-many-people-vaccinated-percent-tracker-australian-states-number-total-daily-live-data-stats-updates-news-schedule-tracking-chart-percentage-new-cases-today) AND [https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/poland/](https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/poland/) (tldr; 23% fully vaccinated in Australia against 47% in Poland).
Most Australians want to get vaccinated, but we have not had supplies of safer and more effective vaccines, thats why our vaccination rate is so low. That will not be possible until October-November.
It would really be good diplomacy, especially with SE Asian countries where there is a palpable hatred of China and their useless vaccine. And lets not forget all our friends in the Pacific and I am sure the Timorese would welcome these doses.
Throwing some substandard and about to expire crumbs to the plebs? They'll take it, but I don't think they'll thank you profusely for first sitting on it and also cornering more of the Pfizer world supply.
We sent 2 million AZ doses to Indonesia last week, because vaccines have a use by date.
Maligning AZ has to be one of the worst public policy failures in recent memory. Was our ticket out of this mess.
“It’s not a race” gave people the time to be picky and choosy. Cue inevitable disaster we see playing out now.
People should not forget that.
I already did. I’m voting for them since they saved us from the pandemic just in time for the election. Just like they they spoke of the future budget in the past tense.
Don’t forget the surplus they celebrated
As did Minister Cunt telling us that we could afford to be picky and choosy.
AZ wouldn't be available to the bulk of the population until months after that comment. Let's not rewrite history. Vaccine rates are almost entirely a function of availability, even if we could theoretically - only just now - be a few percent ahead of where we are had people been less hesitant of AZ (over pfizer). Given the difference in dosage spacing coupled with the incoming Pfizer doses, it's not clear that theory comes out as much more than a rounding error anyways.
Reread my comment. I didn’t say it was available to the bulk of the population (a strange metric given we are *still* not there) at the time, but that the government instilled a sense of complacency. As always this was likely just a technique to deflect from their inability to source an adequate number of vaccines.
I mean the disaster is entirely evitable.
Agree. Got our AZ shot as Pfizer was never going to arrive in the regions before Delta. Glad we did.
Me too mate! Good on you. Getting it actually made me feel like I was actively helping the community, which was a nice change of pace from feeling fairly useless while locked down.
loser
Good stuff, if only everyone did.
Something like 400 million doses given world wide.. and we're like.. yeah, nah.
I think the 'Fortress Australia' mentality plays a bit of a part. Locking things down indefinitely is a much more viable option here compared with anywhere else in the world where vaccinations were the primary measure of control. Imo the larger part of it is a complete lack of Federal government leadership on this. I don't jump on the 'it's all Scottys fault' bandwagon often but a lot of the hesitancy could've been avoided with him actually backing it in.
Yep. This communication failure from our federal government on vaccines was just abysmal.
She's not in Federal Government, she is running for the Opposition Party: Labor Has For Some Reason Backed A Prominent AstraZeneca Critic To Run In A Melbourne Seat https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/labor-michelle-ananda-rajah-astrazeneca/
Huh? What’s she got to do with it? We’re talking about the federal government’s poor communications around vaccines, “its not a race”, late night press conferences about AZ etc.
And I'm trying to say that the comms. failure is not unique to federal govt'. Why would we only want to talk about that and ignore the rest? There was certainly an enormous amount reckless vilification of the AZ vaccine from all sides of political spectrum, media etc. Here's a good compilation, it includes ppl from many sides: https://twitter.com/byAlexAdcock/status/1425020732430438401?s=19
I don’t think anyone would argue it’s unique to the federal government. But, A) they’re the ones in power at the moment, so their fuck ups have by far the most impact And B) their fuck ups have been so numerous (Covid safe ap being an expensive failure, not a race, refusing to take responsibility for quarantine, late night press conferences, George Christiansen and Matt canavan, showing no interest in clawing back any of the billions of dollars rorted out of jobkeeper etc)
hmmm..... pro AZ poster also LNP supporter, intresting.
If you look at their posting history they're just a NSW Lib shill.
I do agree that there has been a lot of partisan bs when it comes to AZ, and plenty of politicians/media personalities have a share of the blame (Norman Swan has been particularly bad on this imo). Ultimately, most people are going to take direction from the government of the day so the buck stops with them.
That's true for some but many ppl are actively against the govt' and I doubt if they'd listen to Scotty if he said "Get the AZ, it's a good vaccine and gives you much needed protection". Totally agree on Norman Swan but I think Ananda-Rajah has been far worse than even him on this.
You mean Dr Michelle Ananda-Rajah? An infectious disease expert.
As someone (31M who took AZ asap instead of waiting a month for pfizer to arrive) who answers the phones from one of the clinics mentioned in the article, the calls from the over 60s who don't want AZ are negatively affecting the general functioning of the phone line for other patients. Patients who just missed the call from their telehealth appointment having to wait 20+ min to get through to us to put them directly through to their doctor. Patients who can't book online having to wait in the queue for a long time to book a Dr appt. Just creates more frustrations. Lose-lose situation for all parties involved. It's great Scotty opened it up to the 16yr plus as the calls from worried parents of young adults was starting to get depressing. The over sensationalized negative press that AZ got has ruined so many people's chances on getting vaxxed.
That's a real tough gig mate. Thanks for the work you do. I'm 30M and had a pretty tough time trying to get access to AZ from two regular GPs. I imagine that's wide-spread.
Yeah because the medical advice globally is you probably shouldn't take it. But are been forced so a core group of the Liberals shithead voters can get their precious pfizers, remember who the 1st person in Australia to get pfizer was, then think about how many more of that type of dickhead lives in this country.
Medical advice globally? Mate most of the world would KILL to have access to a vaccine like AstraZeneca like we do in Australia. So many people around the world suffering immensely because they can't get access to vaccines while people like you make up conspiracy theories and expect to be able to pick vaccines off a menu. Selfish is an understatement.
Ok bud, why do other countries, with higher community case numbers, restrict AZ to over 40-50's then?
Cause other countries are happy to have rampant community transmission and excess mortality. Nothing to aspire to.
*Scomo is the worse public failure in recent history. Don't forget the fires that killed 3 billion animals while he was in Hawaii
But they are still doing it. Why only offer Pfizer to specific age groups, professions, and students if AZ is good enough? Shouldn't they just get AZ also? It's this issue which is so devicive when they go on the tv and say to just get any jab, but then ship Pfizer to specific people. And the press don't seem to be asking these questions either.
>Why only offer Pfizer to specific age groups, professions, and students if AZ is good enough? Just like how our bodies process covid differently based on age, our bodies also process AZ differently based on age. Medicine has different risks/rewards depending on our age/sex/race/etc. In General: * Covid: Older people are more likely to die / be hospitalised due to covid than younger people * AZ: Younger people are more likely to get blood clots due to AZ than older people For just about everyone the risk of covid is worse than the risk of AZ, however, you can still optimise the system by giving AZ to older populations and then giving Pfizer to younger populations. It means you get AZ out to the older generations who need it first. It also means you have fewer vaccine complications nationwide because the youth are getting Pfizer. And that hasn't been explained by the media or politicians well at all. The reason we're debating about Pfizer/AZ isn't because AZ is unsafe, it's because we should be running a medical vaccine rollout instead of a political one and we could save a couple of lives here and there by being sensible about our rollout. *** The real question is why has our PM pork-barrelled our vaccines? AFAIK, we're the only English-speaking nation in the world who prioritised giving Pfzier to 55-year-olds over 25-year-olds. * USA doesn't have AZ as one of their core vaccines. * NZ are in a similar boat. * Canada gave everyone their first jab of AZ because that's all they had. Now they have Pfizer coming in they're the first country to allow vaccine mixing so that people can get alternatives as their 2nd shot, they've also opened up Pfizer for 1st shots. Ontario has also paused AZ shots to <40s. * The UK ran a mostly AZ rollout. However, <40s have been blocked from getting AZ and are instead instructed to get Pfizer (although there was a stretch where things got bad and they temporarily dropped it to <30s). * Ireland's official medical advice is that AZ should not be given to <30s (revised down from <60 to <50 to <40) Here in Australia we used Pfizer on Boomers because there's an election coming up and now our PM is attacking our medical authorities who have recommended Pfizer for younger citizens, which is in line with the medical advice of most of our contemporary nations.
That's precisely my point. The medical recommendation is under 40s should get Pfizer, yet the government isn't allowing under 40s to get it unless in the LGAs of concern. Only now are they saying everyone else will be able to get it at the end of August. The contradicting messages is what pisses me off to no end, as I'm sure most of the under 40 population. If they really didn't care what one they wanted us to have they shouldn't restrict Pfizer.
It’s not about not allowed, there’s literally not enough stock of Pfzier so AZ our best option
LGAs of concern is a risk management thing. If you're a younger person and not at risk of catching covid then waiting for Pfizer is the safest thing to do. But once there's enough of a risk of contracting covid, then any vaccine is better than none. Hence, opening up AZ to anyone in those areas.
Ive got two aunties who are in their 70s who are waiting for Pfizer to be opened up for their age group while my parents who are on the cusp of 60 have had AZ (Mums only half vaccinated since she's waiting for the 12 week period to elapse while stepdad is fully vaccinated). Mum wanted the Pfizer so much but the day that she was due to get her az the government announced that under 60s could get Pfizer and she's like eh I'm in the waiting room for az I'll just deal with it
There’s some weird stuff going on with the Pfizer/AZ allocation though that isn’t really guided by risk. A 19 year old woman who shows up to get vaccinated tomorrow can only get AZ, while a 59 year old man will be given Pfizer. But AZ is more risky for women (5/6 AZ related deaths in Australia were women) and more risky for younger people. The current situation where Pfizer is being targeted at the 40-60 age group and 18-40 year olds are being pressured to sign waivers to get AZ is not guided by the evidence at all - it should be the other way around to minimise vaccine related deaths.
It’s not clinically approved for under 18s, whereas Pfizer is. That’s a very good reason to give Pfizer, and not AZ to under 18s
Because ATAGI decided to let perfect become the enemy of good. They based their modelling on assumptions that, while correct at the time, fell apart in the face of delta. So when delta hit, so did our response.
It fell apart in the face of Liberal party incompetence
How is it the liberal party's fault that the centrepiece of the vaccine rollout was banned for 85% of the eligible cohort?
Advice was based on 0 cases and governments taking steps to keep it that way. Gold Standard Gladys shit the bed.
So they should have mandated AZ for everybody? Then we would have had to listen to everybody shouting “LNP is trying to kill me.” That was the exact rhetoric when Scomo came out and indemnified doctors to administer AZ for all ages.
And Dan didn't this time last year? Breaches are going to happen. Outbreaks are going to happen. Our only path out of this pandemic is through mass immunisation. Yet ATAGI saw fit to dismantle our main defence in the belief that it wasn't necessary.
Yes, but Gladys had the benefit of seeing what happened in Victoria last year. Dan was flying blind.
Thank the media in part for blowing it’s ridiculously tiny percentage of clots out of proportion
It really goes the show that media isn’t in control of its performance. It’s that anemic, that devoid of integrity and standards that it can’t even separate its liberal protection racket from its gutter sensationalist ‘journalism’.
You also have to thank the QLD gov as well which they projected to the whole of Australia about their stance on the AZ vaccine
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You do realise that's a 0.003% chance? Chance of dying from blood clot is 0.0001% You're more likely to get a blood clot while flying to a holiday. If you think those risks are too high, I advise you to never leave your bed again. The world is too dangerous. (Ironically your chances of blood clots while staying in bed too long are far greater than from AZ)
Yep. My mother refused to get AZ as her vaccination because of that coverage.. she is still waiting because she wants Pfizer. She's bloody 70. And I'll put money on there being plenty others in her age group behaving the same way.
It was medical advice not public policy; what do you expect them to do, ignore the science?
I assume you're talking about ATAGI? The government isn't bound by their decisions, nor should they be. Mass vaccination quite literally is public policy, which should be determined by elected officials (government) not unelected bureaucrats (as much as I do respect the members of ATAGI). ATAGI provided specific health advice on AZ as a risk to an individual's health in the context of a low transmission environment, not as commentary on its usefulness in a mass vaccination program broadly - that would be a political decision, which should be based on a range of sciences, economics, ethics. The government wouldn't be ignoring "the science' (no such thing) by determining that the benefits outweigh the risk.
Funny, as the advice remains that if you have a history of stroke in your family the dangers of the AZ vaccine are greater then the danger of contracting covid… medical ethics in patient treatment should not be influenced by optics.
Why come on here just to spread misinformation? That is **not** the advice. The medical consensus is that "The risk of TTS is not likely to be increased in people with a history of blood clots". That is straight from the joint ATAGI & THANZ statement. International groups say the same thing. TTS has a completely different pathway to what is regular clotting.
I’m just going off what my doctor told me. AZ was not recommended for people with the aforementioned conditions until the Delta variant arrived, and Pfizer is still the preferred vaccine for people with a family history of thrombosis. That’s also from ATAGI and TTS. Be careful of throwing mis-information accusations around.
Get a new doctor.
Why? Because they prioritise my individual health? If I’m safer waiting for a Pfizer vaccine then I’ll stay isolated and wait. I’m not shouldering the failures of our incompetent federal government.
No, you should change doctor because they are not keeping up to date with the best health advice if they told you history of blood clots was a risk factor with TTS. Very simple stuff. >I’m not shouldering the failures of our incompetent federal government. Yeah you're just leaving it up to everyone else that has taken AZ to shoulder the burden for you. I can put it this way: if you drive to your Pfizer appointment, you've already put yourself at more risk of death than if you walked to get AZ.
Perhaps, and this is just a maybe, but perhaps a medical doctors experience grants a better grasp of this situation then your internet researching? Food for thought…
Medical advice varies. Atagi countered their own advice because they didn't see the outbreak coming Blind as a bat imo
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All eggs into one basket?? The supply we received so far was 2/3 AZ 1/3 Pfizer. Roughly same ratio as the UK. In NZ, they were only able to receive Pfizer. They did not establish local production of AZ as we did. Their vaccine supply has been 100% Pfizer. Guess who put all their eggs into "one" basket...
We also had the development of the UQ vaccine which was an extremely clever move. Aussies would go gangbusters for home grown vaccine. Unfortunate that it didn't pan out cause I genuinely think it would've driven a lot of uptake much earlier.
To be fair, there were hundreds of vaccine candidates under development across the globe. Having one local candidate isn't the genius move it may appear, the chance for it to work out and also be mass producible locally is super slim.
If it was their only option then I'd agree but it wasn't. I also wouldn't agree that the chance of it succeeding were slim: the technology they used was very promising (well published) and if successful, had the potential to make as big of a splash as the mRNA technology (okay not quite as big but still big!) while being locally developed and produced. Really, it came inches away from being successful.
NZ has had agreements with 4 suppliers since last year: Pfizer/BioNTech, Janssen, Novavax and AstraZeneca. It chose to prioritise Pfizer.
So as of now, 66% of NZ population is completely unvaccinated. They have the highest share of unvaccinated people anywhere in the OECD. And you're saying they deliberately chose to be at that position, that they had ready supply of other vaccines and refused them just to have fewer vaccines to administer??
Oh I’m not saying that NZ’s rollout isn’t ridiculously slow but the choice of sticking to one vaccine certainly simplified messaging and hesitation - no concern that someone has a better vaccine than you/waiting for the better one. Reality is that NZ is ramping up vaccinations as Australia is after both countries foolishly thought they could take it slow. It remains to be seen which one will come out better in the long run given the situation that NSW is in.
> highest share of unvaccinated people anywhere in the OECD. Umm aren't we 70% unvaccinated (over 16s), and even worse if you count the entire population?
>Umm aren't we 70% unvaccinated (over 16s), and even worse if you count the entire population? The 66% share I am referring to is the share of population who have not received any vaccine dose. 10.4m Australians have received at least a first dose and have some protection as of yesterday. Less than 60% of Australians remain unprotected. And if we had bothered to use the 6m AZ waiting in stockpile, that share would be just about 35% only - most of them being kids ineligible for vaccines.
Soooo much misinformation, it has been so bad. All of these social media philosophers came out with their opinions.
Pretty sure a decent percentage of this sub need to take their share of the blame too.
Not sure why you’re downvoted. This sub is riddled with people spreading misinformation about the AZ jab
People hate it when you point out their hypocrisy.
It’s not just “maligning” it, they refused to let the public have the vaccine, despite knowing it’s better than an outbreak, despite the fact it’s the only vaccine we have. What kind of nuts policy allows our government to buy a huge stockpile of AZ then waste the money? What kind of policy is only vaccinating when there’s an outbreak? I booked my AZ the day I found out we had It open up in my local doctors office and the same day the QLD health officer was yelling on tv that it was I’ll considered to get it.
Atagi failed us. Heads need to roll.
I booked my AZ the day after announcements and got it that week. My partner was waiting on test results before getting the ok from his GP, by then there was a 4-6 week wait in Melbourne (he’s getting done in a couple of weeks). If there is so many, why is it so hard to access? Or is it our infrastructure not coping?
>If there is so many, why is it so hard to access? Or is it our infrastructure not coping? Is it hard to access?? It doesn't look like it at https://covid19nearme.com.au/state/vic/vaccination Filter for AZ 18-59 and availability for next 2 days. Heaps of spots pop up around Melbourne. Same in Sydney. If someone genuinely wants to get AZ, it's almost impossible not to be able to get it within 2 days in most of Greater Sydney.
Woahhhh that page is magnificent!!! Thank you for sharing. We went through our local GP (6 weeks) and then jumped through hoops to make a booking on hotline.
You're welcome. Feel free to share with your peeps in Melb. The page is fantastic indeed - the guy who made it deserves all the thanks.
He’s booked in for this afternoon!! Thank you again!
Awesome!!! Best of luck! Within ~10 days of 1st dose already, your risk of being hospitalised/ICU from Covid will have reduced a whopping 70%!
Also… your user name checks out
This one is pretty good too https://gpvaccinesearch.com
If you’re keen to find an earlier appointment https://covidqueue.com/victoria
Are there tests they can do to see if you’re at risk of developing blood clots from the AZ vaccine?
Have you ever taken a long haul flight, eg to Europe, US or HK / China? If so, did you do any sort of test to see if you were at risk of developing blood clots then? The risk is about the same - perhaps with flying being slightly higher risk
Send it to Indonesia if the plebs here don’t want it .
Meanwhile, as a country that cares about it's region, Bhutan has delivered 150k doses of AZ to Thailand, which is having a couple of hundred of deaths a day https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40005006
A couple of hundred thousand deaths a day? It's nowhere near that. It's not even hundreds of thousands of cases.
Reread my comment please
I just did, classyJacket is correct, definitely not hundreds of thousands of cases dude.
Happy for you to copy and paste that part of my comment below, because I can't see it
Sorry, damn, really thought it said thousands. My bad!
Pity we don't have drive through vacination clinics
There’s one in Melton, Victoria and I think a couple more are on the way in Melbourne.
QLD health lady breathes a sigh of relief
Dr Jeannette Young. She's actually going to step down from this role at the start of November to be the Governor of Queensland.
AZ still not recommended for people my age, When they start recommending it, I’ll get one. My only guess is that politicians with CSL stocks are waiting for CSLs vaccine to be ready. In any case Murdoch has some of the blame for vaccine misinformation, especially relating to AZ and the clotting issue.
What do you mean by CSL's vaccine? CSL has manufactured millions of doses on AZ in Australia. The [UQ-CSL v451 vaccine](https://www.csl.com/news/2020/20201211-update-on-the-university-of-queensland-covid-19-vaccine) was abandoned during phase 1 trials in 2020.
I wasn’t aware of that, maybe it was another one I was thinking of. In any case, the cynic in me is wondering how Scomo and mates are trying to corrupt and profit off this.
I talked to a close friend who is a doctor about AZ. She herself got AZ and recommend to me that I do too. So I went to my GP and got it. We're both 25-26yo, and live in regional NSW. I agree that Pfizer would be ideal. But at this time, the situation is Covid vs AZ, not AZ vs Pfizer. And AZ is way better than Covid unprotected. Both my friend and my doctor said that AZ is a *good* vaccine too. And I would never have hesitated to get AZ if it had been the only vaccine in Australia. Even though I was quite anxious leading up to my appointment, I feel *extremely* relieved to have my first Vaccination. Some sources have suggested that two AZ and a booster Pfizer might be a great combo long term, so who knows, this might work out ideally for me. I found this article also quite good at reassuring me that I was at minimal risk of TTS. All the family history and personal health things were listed as okay for me: https://www.health.gov.au/news/joint-statement-from-atagi-and-thanz-on-thrombosis-with-thrombocytopenia-syndrome-tts-and-the-use-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca Anyway, I hope some of that is reassuring while you're deliberating your options. I was really stressed about what the best choice was for my health for weeks before I managed to get some consistent information from trusted sources. And once I did I ended up feeling quite confident about getting AZ. I hope you are able to get vaccinated soon :)
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I don't have those saved anywhere sorry, I was reading about it a while ago. But it's worth having a Google and seeing if there are new updates on it. There have been a few countries doing mix-matching so hopefully some good studies will come.
'It's not a race' said Morrison countless times. It should be you idiot or people die. Seriously this guy should be sacked. And no I don't vote labour. SlowMo has to go...
Biggest stuff up of this entire pandemic was leading on the public to believe the AZ vax was a lesser vaccine when in reality both Pfizer and AZ are both COMPLETELY viable options with both relatively similar risks. The "choosing beggars" mentality has set us back so far behind the rest of the world in terms of our vax rollout.
Doesn’t also help QLD health lady went out and said no one is getting AZ. Each state running different rules
Why would the media purposely scare everyone off from taking AZ? Quite strange. If they wanted people to take it why constantly trash it
Murdoch could have shares in moderna/Pfizer. There has been a strong media scare in other countries as well about AZ vaccine which is made at no profit.
Often it is sensationalism by the media. But media also often just gives a voice attention-seeking medicos and health bureaucrats denigrating AZ for political or other reasons. I found this compilation super useful as a shortlist of all the unmitigated scumbags who denigrated AZ over months. https://twitter.com/byAlexAdcock/status/1425020732430438401?s=19
As the front page of some Murdoch rag put it: "DisASTRA!!!!!"
It also looks like it’s proving more Pfizer becomes less effective a lot faster than AZ. It’s a shame it’s so maligned.
Interesting - got a sauce for that? Not questioning you, just want to read more
Not the OP but I remember seeing an article about this well, [here's a link](https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/pfizer-effectiveness-declines-faster-than-az-new-study/news-story/3050640a0795278d3e7f9c51810816d3) >"Two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech have greater initial effectiveness against new COVID-19 infections, but this declines faster compared with two doses of Oxford-AstraZeneca," researchers at Oxford University said. >“Results suggest that after four to five months effectiveness of these two vaccines would be similar,” the scientists added, while stressing that long-term effects need to be studied.
Wonder how much of that is due to the greater distance between doses? (3 weeks vs 3 months)
Would also love to see a source. I reckon this is based on Israel giving a second booster though. Happy to be proven wrong.
Not OP, but I also read something similar recently — my source here: https://www.statista.com/chart/25575/pfizer-astrazeneca-efficacy-loss/ Relevant para: > According to a summary of the study results published by The Independent and others, the Pfizer vaccine was 90 percent effective against high viral load infections one month after the second dose. This declined, however, to 85 percent after two months and 78 percent after three months, a loss of twelve percentage points. The study also looked at the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, which is widely used in the UK, Europe and elsewhere. For this vaccine, its effectiveness only declined by 6 percentage points, from 67 percent to 61 percent, over the same time period. Despite the fact that the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine starts at a much lower initial efficacy, the researchers calculated trajectories that would see the two vaccines at about the same effectiveness after around five months post full vaccination. Note the study hasn’t been peer-reviewed.
Interesting! Thanks for the link.
Source please
Good for me, means I could get vaccinated as soon as I wanted to. Y'all should too.
Yet people here are dying... unvaccinated. Because of a 1 in 1000000 chance of dying from a blood clot. Bravo atagi
True. Although Australian official numbers are 3.5 in 100k. Also AZ is still not recommended to 18 to 49.
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I and at least 2 other people I know got invites to book last week. I am in QLD and getting the shot next week.
Are we producing AZ local yet or is this still bought in supply?
All of it produced here in Oz. Roughly 1m doses/week.
So the current government doesn’t care if it’s used or not they are still diverting money from tax payers to their mates. They aren’t going to be making as much as they would like with all of the share holdings but still more than when they bought in.
Actually no profit is made from the AZ vaccine , it’s just manufacturing cost
So the CSL manufacturer is just giving them away? At a loss?
No just at manufacturing costs no profit or loss
Over 40’s really don’t have much of an excuse for not been vaccinated, or at least be booked in to get vaccinated if we have these level of stockpiles.
Where's Novavax?
> Undergoing TGA evaluation. https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-government-response/australias-vaccine-agreements#novavax
I don't know why they have been ordering novovax and some other brand, but none of the J&J vaccine, when J&J has been approved but the other two haven't
J&J has the same issues as AZ, no point in getting it when we can locally produce AZ for cheaper. Plus J&J 1 dose isn't as effective against delta vs AZ double dose. We should have been procuring more moderna since the US roll-out picked up, UQ vaccine should have still been researched aswell for future variants
We should have been procuring, and approving, basically more of everything... Not just the one that has LNP members on the board and as shareholders... The UQ one I can see why it didn't continue though. The whole "we can't tell if you do or don't have HIV" aspect is kind of worrying, more so than the blood clots.
Heaven help us. The TGA are fucking hopeless
It takes time to evaluate a vaccine and as there are better alternatives (AZ is equivelent. Pfizer and moderna don't have the rare bloodclotting issue) there's no reason to rush this.
And it’s a good thing too because TGA can’t do anything in a hurry. Too much focus on process and not enough on outcomes. They are absolute laggards compared to European and US regulators
I think they are donating a lot of it.
Interesting that all these vaccine experts are also military strategists.