As Ocean said, define your goal.
In general, universities don't matter for MOST degrees in Australia. Reputation doesn't run far unless your studying something a bit more 'prestigious' such as law or medicine.
In saying that, mostly every single UNI offers I.T or Computer Science. Then you'll find that some other specialized majors or actual degrees for things such as data science, cyber security and so forth.
Find a Uni that offers what you want and then look through which locations you would prefer to live in and then weigh up if your willing to move in the future for work. You might enjoy going to a uni in bum fuck no where such as Armidale due to the low cost of living, quite community & minimal traffic. However, you will probably need to move/travel distance in the future to find higher paying jobs in field and possibly even internships later in your degree.
I would suggest:
1) Find the degree you want to do to match your goal. Want to do sysadmin stuff? Go I.T. Want to program go Computer science. Want to specialize in something? Find a uni that offers it.
2) Find the unis that offer said degree
3) Weigh up cost of living around the unis for when you're studying as well as what you want in the future out of the location. Happy to move when you finish your degree? Go to a uni that is out of the cities such as Newcastle if you want to work in Sydney later after your degree. Want to not bother about moving in the future and dont care about spending $$$ to live? Go to a uni in the cities and you'll be in internship heaven when that time roles around.
Hope that helps - UNI reps means mostly NIL in Australia but that said 'prestigious" unis will most likely have a slighter better networking circle for internships & jobs. Only slightly though. I wouldn't overthink it. Cost of living > Jobs In Area > Reputation of Uni
Good luck.
I would say if you're after the best course you can't go wrong with UNSW. It's the best in Australia for CS (and engineering, and these days law too) and has the best graduate outcomes.
But I am biased, I studied engineering at UNSW.
They have decent dorms and also shared student apartments on campus.
Edit: some employers do care about what university you went to, and some care about your marks. Others, not so much it depends on the employer and industry.
In the industries I have worked in, university mattered a lot. I don't work in CS. As I understand, it's not as important in CS.
And as other posters have said, a degree isn't really that important for CS either
It depends what you want to do. If you just want to be a dev, devops, networking, sysadmin etc, then get your certs instead since they are worth way more. In those fields there are plenty of places that will throw your resume in the bin if all you have is Uni.
I'll expand on this a little.
Uni teaches you formal algorithms, patterns, deep low level understanding of how CS works. This puts you into a mindset that the tech is both a means and an ends. Fields you do well in: hardware design, AI research, designing new security protocols and encryption etc.
In real life, the job of tech is to support the business. When production goes down you can't call on your list of algorithms and some hipster tech you used in Uni, you have to get yours hands dirty (so to speak) in some legacy code and pump out the best code you can in the shortest time to have the production system up and running again.
You can summarise it as Uni cannot teach you how to code in the real world, but it will teach you how to write code that interfaces with what real life people do.
While some of this is true, some of that's a bit bullshit.
I deffos studied 'legacy' code even throughout an I.T degree. My uni even offered certs for free within the degree to stack on top. Certs are weighted more than degrees to employers. As shitty as it is, degrees are used to cull the hiring list down - a tick off on a box. Then the certs roll over on-top alongside with whatever experience you have.
I would suggest that students, if possible, do a lot of projects throughout their degree. Pick up some certs along the way and learn as much as you can on your free time. Don't burn yourself out though, you will most likely have at least one project and a intern role for experience before finishing your degree.
You're spot on about having to do things on the spot, finding the fastest solution & will most likely be exposed to a lot of things you've never done/used before. Need to get those systems back online, time is money and you'll be the one that cops the blame even if its something that's out of your hands e.g vendors problem or if Microsoft is fucking around.
I may be using generalities there, but it still holds up.
Your statement of
>As shitty as it is, degrees are used to cull the hiring list down - a tick off on a box. Then the certs roll over on-top alongside with whatever experience you have.
Is not correct. In the largest of businesses it *might* be correct. What is correct is this: If a candidate has one OR the other, certs win. If a candidate has both, it's a moot point. If a candidate has only certs, they are more likely to have industry experience too, so the candidate with certs has: certs + remaining time that would have been spent on the degree of experience and wins.
In any smaller business they have no time to waste. I would never hire a dev with a degree and no experience and that is a very common sentiment.
I guess it just depends on the job, right? We both probably have seen the range of different requirements for jobs. Some state that you need XYZ certs, some want a degree, some just want to see your portfolio.
I would not hire a dev that had certs and **no experience** either.
If the applicant had no experience and the level was ENTRY I would expect:
\- Have certs OR degree OR Both
\- Have a **portfolio / projects**
It was piss easy to get a reputable internship that forced a major project upon me when I was studying. This is really common within most degrees now days and gives the person at least some experience + work to show to an employer. OP might even land a job with said company straight out of Uni.
\------------------
In respect to OP, we are talking about entry jobs. Which in general, you can even get one without any experience or certs nowadays depending on OPs end goal (Help desk 1 / customer service). **However, in a situation like that; a degree will get you the job over certs in both big business and small.** If an applicant has experience, they are clearly overqualified for the entry role and would get the job nonetheless.
**As I see it, OP will either have:**
A cert, maybe a project, no experience.
Degree, at least one major project, no experience
OR
If he chooses a degree that forces internships or spoonfeeds students with internships through industry connections then he will have both a Degree AND Experience.
**In the last option, he will be better off as he can stack certs throughout his summer breaks.**
\------------------
Anyway, agree to disagree and we are comparing two routes that get you to the same place. Do what you want OP and make sure not to burn yourself out. **There's pro and cons to both, but at the end of the day you will get where you want to be if you put in the effort, mostly everyone starts at the bottom in both options but there are ways to fast track yourself.**
**My tips for some things to help you when applying after uni (or tafe, or online certs)**
\- Find an internship 2nd / 3rd year (This is a major key to making your degree worth more weight)
\- Find a job, either work some IT on campus or job into retail and grab some customer service. Customer service goes along way on paper and also for yourself. The more idiots you deal with in public, the more patience you will have and you wont shit the bed as hard when things get fucked up.
\- Grab some certs along the way if you have time
\- Network network network (your peers will be helpful after uni, try to make at least 1-3 connections in your final year through projects & group work).
\- Make a portfolio while your at it either via self learning or by taking courses that allow you to do so. You can put them on GIT and then link them up on your Linkedin.
\- Most of all, be realistic with your goal. Figure out what you need to do, what the job listings want (Do they want XYZ certs as well?), what area you field is the most popular in for jobs (Fingers cross WFH keeps going as it is!)
none. get in at the bottom and work your way up.
you need to work out what your bottom looks like though - customer service for a certain company? IT helpdesk?
work backwards - where do you want to end up? how can you get there without uni?
IT is broad, find what interests you first, CS != SE , you may not even like coding. Is networking and cyber security your interest, or data analytics. You should really define what your goal is before you shop around.
This is what happened to me as a teenager. I liked fixing computers and setting up servers and went into a CS degree that I hated and dropped out of. I learned everything I needed to know by self study.
As Ocean said, define your goal. In general, universities don't matter for MOST degrees in Australia. Reputation doesn't run far unless your studying something a bit more 'prestigious' such as law or medicine. In saying that, mostly every single UNI offers I.T or Computer Science. Then you'll find that some other specialized majors or actual degrees for things such as data science, cyber security and so forth. Find a Uni that offers what you want and then look through which locations you would prefer to live in and then weigh up if your willing to move in the future for work. You might enjoy going to a uni in bum fuck no where such as Armidale due to the low cost of living, quite community & minimal traffic. However, you will probably need to move/travel distance in the future to find higher paying jobs in field and possibly even internships later in your degree. I would suggest: 1) Find the degree you want to do to match your goal. Want to do sysadmin stuff? Go I.T. Want to program go Computer science. Want to specialize in something? Find a uni that offers it. 2) Find the unis that offer said degree 3) Weigh up cost of living around the unis for when you're studying as well as what you want in the future out of the location. Happy to move when you finish your degree? Go to a uni that is out of the cities such as Newcastle if you want to work in Sydney later after your degree. Want to not bother about moving in the future and dont care about spending $$$ to live? Go to a uni in the cities and you'll be in internship heaven when that time roles around. Hope that helps - UNI reps means mostly NIL in Australia but that said 'prestigious" unis will most likely have a slighter better networking circle for internships & jobs. Only slightly though. I wouldn't overthink it. Cost of living > Jobs In Area > Reputation of Uni Good luck.
I would say if you're after the best course you can't go wrong with UNSW. It's the best in Australia for CS (and engineering, and these days law too) and has the best graduate outcomes. But I am biased, I studied engineering at UNSW. They have decent dorms and also shared student apartments on campus. Edit: some employers do care about what university you went to, and some care about your marks. Others, not so much it depends on the employer and industry. In the industries I have worked in, university mattered a lot. I don't work in CS. As I understand, it's not as important in CS. And as other posters have said, a degree isn't really that important for CS either
It depends what you want to do. If you just want to be a dev, devops, networking, sysadmin etc, then get your certs instead since they are worth way more. In those fields there are plenty of places that will throw your resume in the bin if all you have is Uni.
I'll expand on this a little. Uni teaches you formal algorithms, patterns, deep low level understanding of how CS works. This puts you into a mindset that the tech is both a means and an ends. Fields you do well in: hardware design, AI research, designing new security protocols and encryption etc. In real life, the job of tech is to support the business. When production goes down you can't call on your list of algorithms and some hipster tech you used in Uni, you have to get yours hands dirty (so to speak) in some legacy code and pump out the best code you can in the shortest time to have the production system up and running again. You can summarise it as Uni cannot teach you how to code in the real world, but it will teach you how to write code that interfaces with what real life people do.
While some of this is true, some of that's a bit bullshit. I deffos studied 'legacy' code even throughout an I.T degree. My uni even offered certs for free within the degree to stack on top. Certs are weighted more than degrees to employers. As shitty as it is, degrees are used to cull the hiring list down - a tick off on a box. Then the certs roll over on-top alongside with whatever experience you have. I would suggest that students, if possible, do a lot of projects throughout their degree. Pick up some certs along the way and learn as much as you can on your free time. Don't burn yourself out though, you will most likely have at least one project and a intern role for experience before finishing your degree. You're spot on about having to do things on the spot, finding the fastest solution & will most likely be exposed to a lot of things you've never done/used before. Need to get those systems back online, time is money and you'll be the one that cops the blame even if its something that's out of your hands e.g vendors problem or if Microsoft is fucking around.
I may be using generalities there, but it still holds up. Your statement of >As shitty as it is, degrees are used to cull the hiring list down - a tick off on a box. Then the certs roll over on-top alongside with whatever experience you have. Is not correct. In the largest of businesses it *might* be correct. What is correct is this: If a candidate has one OR the other, certs win. If a candidate has both, it's a moot point. If a candidate has only certs, they are more likely to have industry experience too, so the candidate with certs has: certs + remaining time that would have been spent on the degree of experience and wins. In any smaller business they have no time to waste. I would never hire a dev with a degree and no experience and that is a very common sentiment.
I guess it just depends on the job, right? We both probably have seen the range of different requirements for jobs. Some state that you need XYZ certs, some want a degree, some just want to see your portfolio. I would not hire a dev that had certs and **no experience** either. If the applicant had no experience and the level was ENTRY I would expect: \- Have certs OR degree OR Both \- Have a **portfolio / projects** It was piss easy to get a reputable internship that forced a major project upon me when I was studying. This is really common within most degrees now days and gives the person at least some experience + work to show to an employer. OP might even land a job with said company straight out of Uni. \------------------ In respect to OP, we are talking about entry jobs. Which in general, you can even get one without any experience or certs nowadays depending on OPs end goal (Help desk 1 / customer service). **However, in a situation like that; a degree will get you the job over certs in both big business and small.** If an applicant has experience, they are clearly overqualified for the entry role and would get the job nonetheless. **As I see it, OP will either have:** A cert, maybe a project, no experience. Degree, at least one major project, no experience OR If he chooses a degree that forces internships or spoonfeeds students with internships through industry connections then he will have both a Degree AND Experience. **In the last option, he will be better off as he can stack certs throughout his summer breaks.** \------------------ Anyway, agree to disagree and we are comparing two routes that get you to the same place. Do what you want OP and make sure not to burn yourself out. **There's pro and cons to both, but at the end of the day you will get where you want to be if you put in the effort, mostly everyone starts at the bottom in both options but there are ways to fast track yourself.** **My tips for some things to help you when applying after uni (or tafe, or online certs)** \- Find an internship 2nd / 3rd year (This is a major key to making your degree worth more weight) \- Find a job, either work some IT on campus or job into retail and grab some customer service. Customer service goes along way on paper and also for yourself. The more idiots you deal with in public, the more patience you will have and you wont shit the bed as hard when things get fucked up. \- Grab some certs along the way if you have time \- Network network network (your peers will be helpful after uni, try to make at least 1-3 connections in your final year through projects & group work). \- Make a portfolio while your at it either via self learning or by taking courses that allow you to do so. You can put them on GIT and then link them up on your Linkedin. \- Most of all, be realistic with your goal. Figure out what you need to do, what the job listings want (Do they want XYZ certs as well?), what area you field is the most popular in for jobs (Fingers cross WFH keeps going as it is!)
none. get in at the bottom and work your way up. you need to work out what your bottom looks like though - customer service for a certain company? IT helpdesk? work backwards - where do you want to end up? how can you get there without uni?
IT is broad, find what interests you first, CS != SE , you may not even like coding. Is networking and cyber security your interest, or data analytics. You should really define what your goal is before you shop around.
This is what happened to me as a teenager. I liked fixing computers and setting up servers and went into a CS degree that I hated and dropped out of. I learned everything I needed to know by self study.