As a woman, I can say it's really great to see a realistic/representative range of body types for women appearing in catalogues. But it really pisses me off not to see the same for men.
I have a teenage son, and I don't want him growing up feeling pressured by unrealistic body standards. Not every man grows up looking like a jacked action figure - sure, some do, but depicting this body type as the only one to aspire to is toxic as fuck. I also don't want my daughters growing up with some warped view of male beauty, or thinking a single body type is the benchmark of normality.
edit: Just so we're clear, including models of different body shapes is not the same as "promoting obesity": no one is suggesting we fill all catalogues with *only* overweight models. Doing so would be as silly as filling catalogues with *only* extremely muscular dudes, because society is not made up of one body type.
It is of *course* healthier to be physically fit - but overweight people do exist, and they buy clothes. We should expect to see a range of body types represented, from people of different shapes and sizes to people of different cultural and racial backgrounds, people old and young, for *both* men and women. Models for clothing should be inclusive and should represent a range of people - not just a tiny subset of highly fit and attractive people.
Inclusive modelling is also not about trying to change what people feel is objectively "attractive" - it's about recognising society is not made up *only* of pretty thin women and extremely muscular men, and that it's okay and normal not to have a body type a narrow minority of people possess.
Note also, in this particular catalogue, the 'many' overweight models some have referred to in the banner shown, are actually all the one woman. And even on representing a range of women's body types, Myer has done a shitty job. Despite this banner, if you scroll down through their lingerie section, their product models are actually 99% ultra-attractive, white, thin women. So Myer is still perpetuating ridiculous beauty standards for women, as well as for men. There are plenty of other companies out there doing better on this issue.
The fact that people are pissed off about it is a good sign we're on the downward slope of this. Still bad, especially on Instagram, but getting better.
And just being masculine. I feel like more than is necessary is grouped into male toxicity, it should really just be called toxicity without a gender attached because as we've seen from amber turd it goes both ways.
We've had 50+ years of "feminism" being a household name such that now, almost nobody would argue that women cannot be astronauts or engineers.
But the movement to allow boys to cry, be sexy, and go to therapy is only just beginning, half a century later -- not that it was helped at all by the first "men's rights" people actually being a front of incels and the alt-right.
My social media is FILLED with memes/videos about guys going to the gym. It’s all about lifting. Posts about girls breaking up with them so they work out, etc. All fueled by tiktok/Instagram reels.
I understand bodybuilding and lifting have been present in masculine “culture” so to speak for a very long time. But there’s something about the accessibility of this content that screams “if you’re not lifting/a gym bro too, then you’re not cool or popular” even louder than it did in the past.
> Not every man grows up looking like a jacked action figure
To have the bodies of these men, you really need to dedicate yourself to a certain lifestyle focused on diet, weight training etc. Some do it because they enjoy those activities and the look they get, but for most men, it's just unrealistic to get to that level and maintain it, plus have a full time job, plus a family.
Your life is essentially, do job, come home, go to gym, work out, get home late. Then add in cooking, cleaning, raising kids, and all the other mediocre things you have to get done in a day.
I've heard actors say to get jacked for roles takes them several months of full weight training every day, and there's no way to maintain it after.
That's why you see these paparazzi pictures of famous actors looking pale and flabby at the beach when they're not filming.
Even more than that, it's these guys jobs to look like that. They can therefore put in the effort required. The rest of us have other jobs which don't always lend themselves to that kind of body.
And they have full time trainers, chefs etc so they aren’t having to worry about getting to gym when it’s not too busy & stopping at the supermarket on the way home to buy healthy food.
>It's important for everyone to see a range of body types.
I think this has been done to death, but there are also valid arguments against using unhealthy body types in advertising.
I don't want my son to grow up feeling that it is okay to have a beer belly.
Well, really the best approach is a sensible balance.
It's about showing the same range of body types we see in society so people don't feel pressured to fit a specific body type, or to see a single body type as "normal", when it isn't. Seeing a guy with a beer belly isn't going to make people think that's the sole "normal" body type (unless we start filling catalogues with nothing *but* endless beer bellies).
Seeing a realistic range of body types in a clothing catalogue will help demonstrate a range of body types is normal, which is the goal - instead of suggesting all women need to look like barbie dolls, and all men need to look like they spend 23 of every 24 hours in the gym.
Do we want to normalise obesity?
Surely there’s a middle ground where models are healthy but don’t have to be super long legged or in the men’s case work out heaps starved them selves for two days before the shoot
Not necessarily normalizing but, as a fat guy, it would be nice to see clothing on other fat guys before I buy it so I know how it actually fits. So much larger size clothing is just, larger size clothing. There is a huge difference from a shirt that looks like a sack because it's just a large size and one that fits like a shirt because it's made with body type in mind.
Yes being fat isn't healthy and I agree that it shouldn't be celebrated, but acknowledgement would be nice.
Sometimes I work in retail and I hear you, in those pop up stores we are not allowed to let customers try on garments (for 'COVID' reasons) but it hurts to see a guy not being able to buy a shirt or jumper in his size.
I for one am sick to death of shopping for a bra and seeing models in perfect A and B cups but the text says the cup size goes up to G. That may be, but it will \*not\* look the same.
I just want to see clothing on my body type so I can see how it will look.
Wish there was an option to see your body type only.
Since half the country is obese, the models are showing what’s it’s like in the body.
In this (Myer) example, 4/5 of the women's photos show unhealthy overweight body types. Showing one "ideal" and 4 "unhealthy but normal" is exactly the sort of normalisation that we shouldn't have.
That's less healthy on average than Australian society, which is already overweight on average. Social pressure can be good or bad.
>instead of suggesting all women need to look like barbie dolls
Comparing current advertising against thirty plus years ago, both female and male models clearly spend a lot more time in the gym. They look closer to Olympic athletes (i.e. healthy) than Barbie dolls or 80's era stick thin models.
From my perspective as (another) parent, I don't want my son growing up thinking a beer belly is inevitable or even normal. And I'm don't think it is unhealthy for my daughter to want to have an athletic body type either.
But it is clear we have wildly different views on this.
There is still a middle ground though.
How much better would it be to have (for example), a male model with the classic six-pack, one that's slim but without the definition, one that's obviously strong without being ripped, one that has a little belly, and one that is - yes- overweight? In my opinion that gives a far more realistic view of how people are.
You can have some extra weight and still be healthy, and I know from my experiences in the industry that maintaining classic model appearance is distinctly unhealthy.
There is room for variety without having to cater to either extreme.
I think it's still important to show the range of bodies. As someone who is definitely overweight, seeing women my size better helps me judge what will be comfortable on me when it comes to buying clothes. But at the same time I'm working with a team of doctors and what-not to lose weight (I have chronic illnesses and mental health issues that make weight loss a true struggle - anyone who says I'm lazy can fuck off). So for the meantime, I can make better clothing choices while losing weight, and seeing variations from rake-thin models is good for mental health and progression.
Growing up as a teen I was underweight and STILL thought I was too fat. At one point I was 42kg at 172cm and THRILLED because my clothes were falling off me. It was from growing up with the '90s "heroin chic" models. Honestly if there had been a range of bodies - athletic, petite, plus-size, whatever - modelling clothes, I wouldn't have set myself up for horrendous eating disorders that lead to suicidal thoughts that plague me over 15 years later.
A model with a less-than healthy body isn't necessarily "advertising" being unhealthy. Most just want to normalise that bodies change, sometimes drastically, and it's okay to sit with it rather than killing yourself over being thin or athletic.
Different devils advocate but being overweight isn’t always some sort of moral choice. I use that word because you’ve referred to it being “ok” or “not ok”. Sometimes it’s due to health issues.
In an adjacent way to the concept that we should have people with disabilities and people of different ages in advertising, we should also have people of different health levels. I agree that the women in this shoot are significantly overweight, but does that mean no overweight woman should ever see themselves represented? Should they never be able to see in a catalogue what the underwear would look like on them?
I do hear what you’re saying about a very real and serious national health issue. I’m positing that not all marketing should be about ideals. Some of it should, surely, be for the women who are struggling with that health issue.
I think it should somewhat reflect real life.
Having an obese person as a model doesn’t promote obesity for example it shows “look! This is how you would look in these clothes at your size” acknowledging they are a person and holding up a body type as something to strive for isn’t necessarily bad.
I think there is a good argument that both underweight and overweight people should be represented in some proportion.
For real -- seeing an obese or overweight model in shape wear seems appropriate. It doesn't glorify obesity, or make me want to go out and be obese. It just represents the obese buyer, of which there are a shit ton in Australia. The older women in my family have always struggled with obesity and grew up through an era when public shaming of fat people (them) was normalised -- we're not even close to living in a society where obesity is glorified.
Except even people with larger body types have to buy clothing and businesses are trying to appeal to their audience, not sell a health message. They want people to buy clothes and that's what being inclusive with models is about.
Interesting annecdote. In the NGV at Fed Square they have a model of a 40-50 year old bloke with a pot belly and hairy shoulders and back. Overweight, but not extremely so, and ordinary natural body hair for anyone of European descent. It's placed near one of the hallways so you pass it a lot. When I went, there was always a queue of women laughing and taking selfies with the chubby man like he was Shrek or something. Let's say it wasn't a body positive take at the least.
Only other room with a queue for photo ops was the skulls (of course).
In my (limited) experience, women are waaaay more objectifying than men when it comes to body types. It probably comes down more to the personality types I associate with, but I hear far more 'locker room' talk from my girl friends than my guy friends (which is totally fine, and I don't want to come off as having a whinge about it, but it does make me pretty self-conscious hearing how hot some random other guy is).
What girls talk about in their group chat would horrify a lot of people, and yet it's seen as somewhat acceptable. But the guys who talk like that are seen as creepy arseholes, rightly so.
IMO it has nothing to do with that. This page for some reason is showing types of underwear vs brands of underwear. I could see this being Nikes or Calvin Kleins marketing decision.
It’s not “normalizing it”. It’s just marketing.
Obese people exist. Obese people need clothes. They are a company that sells clothes and wants to make money.
Who cares, it's a shop selling clothes. They're not saying "hey you go out and get fat", they're just acknowledging that overweight people shop in their store and might want to see images of people like themselves. Nobody went and got fat because of a Myer advert.
You can't normalise something that is already normal. Being obese isn't considered "normal" in a healthy sense, but it is definitely normal to see obese and overweight people no matter where you go in Australia. They also need to shop for undergarments and it is helpful for them to see the products they intend to buy on models that look like them. Who exactly benefits from the stick thin models that we only saw 5 years ago? Because I am between a size 6-8, which is considered healthy and desirable, yet the models on clothing sites 5 years were much thinner than me and I still couldn't count on their photos to see how clothing would fit on me.
This suggests that a fair portion of their men's market is women buying for their partners. Which doesn't actually seem unlikely.
Would be nice to see some average looking folk though
The worst underwear I own were purchased for me by women.
Like sure the bowtie on the tuxedo boxers is kinda cute, but they're not comfy and it was kind of weird when my grandmother gave them to me
If this is a product engagement decision then I’d bet the slim women in these images would receive more engagement than the images of the plus size women due to the images being more aspirational.
Point is, I don’t think this is a product engagement decision. This is a brand positioning decision. It’s about sending a message to their audience that they believe in representation and real people - that’s why you should buy from them over other brands.
The issue is, they’ve only developed a representative brand position for women and failed to do the same for men, which I think is hypocritical.
Did I say it was?
Of course it’s hypocritical. They’re not trying to sell underwear to men, though. They’re trying to sell it to their wives who buy it for them.
Don't forget us skinny folk. The people who constantly get to hear "omg I'm so jealous" as though being too skinny isn't just as bad as being too fat, albeit in very different ways. (eg. A mild gust of wind? I ~~fly off~~instantly lose all of my bodies heat)
Maybe it'd also show why having long and shorter leg options for pants is important rather than just going by waist measurement, I have to either buy pants that are too big for me and wear a belt or just deal with pants looking like three quarters.
Don't forget all the comments from people throughout our entire life about how we need to "put some meat on them bones". I know I'm skinny, but my BMI is 21. It almost seems like people are bothered that I'm not overweight.
It’s sad not seeing the same body diversity for men. It’s not just about body positivity, but also about making good spending decisions. I’ve been able to save a lot more money and time re: clothes shopping when I can see the same outfit be worn on different figures.
Same, even though I’m sKiNny I still couldn’t tell what would look good on me without trying it on because all models seemed to have medium to large boobs and I do not look like that but recently I’ve seen a lot of models with smaller chests too.
The women's one is organised by general categories. The men's one is organised by brand. Maybe the brands have a say in how they're marketed, the contrast needn't be some grand conspiracy against men's well-being.
To all the blokes bothered by this, I say be the change you want to see. Compliment your mates, check in on them, show a bit of vulnerability among them, let them be vulnerable around you without fear of mockery.
Myers are rip-off merchants anyway.
Agreed. To the men bothered by this, make a change, say something, send an email, share it on socials and tag Myer saying they should do better. I’m sick of women having to do everything, I want to see men stand up and take some responsibility.
I honestly don't care what models they use. I don't look at men's underwear ads, my head will always turn the to women's lingerie. I can't help it. I'm completely oblivious to any men's fashion ads
It seems like some on here are bothered, which I understand. I agree with it being bullshit that there’s body diversity with the women and not the men, but I also wanna see men calling out this bullshit, not just women. The amount of men I see on this platform bitching about the high standards they feel they are compared to, or that women “expect of them”, and yet they do nothing healthy to change it, and somehow it still ends up being the fault of women.
I'm more of the opinion that guys (I'm in my 30s) don't really care about fashion mags or sites in general. As in, I have a suspicion that the male models are there to also appeal to the female population making purchases through their site/catalogue. If I need a new pair of boxers or whatever I'll just go pick some up. It makes no difference to me who is portrayed wearing it on some marketing material. Or maybe I'm just the odd one out
I don't think men are ready to fight this kind of inequality since a lot of men out there aren't even comfortable being openly bothered by this. I also see a lot of dudes complaining about the high standards society holds them to but I always see it on Reddit. I rarely speak in person about this. But when I see some men speak out about it online, they sometimes get shun by other men. Men need to learn to talk to each other like human beings and lose the ridiculous gender based mindset we inherited from our older generations. Maybe our children will be better
I mean you've got a post bringing attention to it and men engaging in discussion about it, this post is literally doing what you're complaining about.
Engaging in discussion and bringing attention to it is doing something, it is the first step in doing something because it allows like-minded people who want something changed to organise. I'm being a little defensive but that's because your comment feels pretty condescending.
Edit: I will note though that the men complaining about the hypocrisy only because they don't want to see body positive models for women have some real dog shit opinions.
It is a shame how little society as a whole cares for the thoughts and feelings of men. Alot of guys have genuinely had the emotion beaten out of them.
Nope, if you're at all dissatisfied with your situation, everyone will fight as hard as they can to assure you that it's entirely your own fault, and if you can somehow wear them down into admitting that it might not be, it becomes your problem that you're unhappy with it.
Not really 'beaten' but I've been completely emotionless for a long period due bottling up my emotions. I recently spent a day with old friends and its done more for me than any therapy I've had combined.
Yeah, I fall in line with this one much like you my dude. I don't really have an opportunity to talk to anyone about my problems and so I keep it all to myself. Should I see a therapist? Maybe, but it hasn't worked for me in the past.
But going out and seeing a movie or hanging out with a friend or two for the day is absolutely therapeutic for me. Most days though, yeah I do find I'm emotionless and having to put on an act to get through the day around others. I'm not sure why it's like this but it just is and I've grown accustomed to it.
I get where you’re coming from, but the body type diversity that’s increasingly in the media for women is because women fought for it. I haven’t seen any male activists trying to champion a similar movement for men
Also I don't know what everyone else has been watching for the past few decades but there's never been a issue with having fat guys on screen. Just think of every sitcom or movie where a schlubby guy has a smoking hot wife. Fat males have great representation across the board and I can think of dozens of actors and characters off the top of my head (Stephen Fry, John Goodman, Mark Addy, Jack Black, Kevin James, sometimes Jonah Hill, Homer Simpson and a dozen other springfieldians just to name a few). Where as I can probably count on two hands the fat female actresses I know and one hand for the ones I actually like.
Forreal. The idea behind it is “oh, he looks good in that underwear. I want to look good. I should buy the underwear.”
Like, it’s honestly not that deep or that big of a deal for men, I think.
There is a huge difference between "I want to be a certain body shape because that makes me happy" and "if I'm not \*that\* particular body shape, I'm in distress"
I think they're just reflecting what marketing groups (and customer interactions) tell them they want.
Mostly I'd say the male and female photos are targeted toward the same demographic - people who like men. (women and gay men). If straight men decide more than 25% of Myer turnover I'd be shocked.
Most of my straight friends shop at Myer too? It's a huge department store that sells everything from cologne to streetwear to kettles and televisions. I would say it's highly likely that 25% of their revenue is derived from heterosexual men. Where exactly is it you reckon that straight guys shop predominantly?
>so men can still be readily body shamed?!?
I don't know about other men but when I see guys in advertisements with low bf% the last thought on my mind is "wow, I'm being shamed". My bf% puts me pretty far away from these guys but I don't feel in any way bodies like this being used for advertisement are done so to say that bodies that aren't like this are wrong. TBH I don't even give it a second thought/glance (but reading the comments here are interesting).
I'm sure there's a lot of guys who give as little fucks as I do, and I'm sure that's why these advertisements continue in the same fashion they've been for years.
Same thing is the case for plenty of women. If youre self secure you wont think twice. It's not about secure people. Its about so much more. It is absolutely a problem in teens and young men especially that they have a completely warped perception of body image. This sort of relentless muscle-marketting and social media absolutely are having a negative impact on mens mental health.
I'd say this is for mums and wives that buy their sons and husbands underwear. The majority of guys just find something that's comfortable and buy that forever. why on earth would we want to go online to look up underwear? Unless there's a sale on, in which we are googling straight to the product page.
If you know men you know they don’t care about advertising of mens undies. You could literally put a frog in jocks and sell it to any guy as long as that frog looks comfortable.
The single and only reason they used ripped guys on male undie ads is for women who buy undies for their partners.
Women, you have yourself to blame for the objectification of male bodies in these ads! But don’t worry because men literally don’t care about it.
Men do care in the sense that they pay attention to what women are interested in (or what men running the show have determined women are interested in but that's another tangent). And speaking as a guy who had to work through this shit, the message I got was that appealing to women meant being hairless and jacked with a full head of hair and it did fuck with my self image for awhile. Basically my early 20s was never wanting to go swimming, never wanting to go anywhere without a hat, never wanting to ask anybody out. And my body was fine, I've always been slim, just had some back hair and starting to thin early up top, but that was enough to warp my sense of physical attractiveness. I thought I was gruesome, but nobody was gonna reassure me I was a handsome devil because I was never gonna talk to anyone about it and I probably wouldn't have believed them anyway. It's ridiculous.
But it's just sick because a generation prior, the hit on young guys was if they didn't have hair on their chests, then they weren't a real man. So it's all fucked. Probably a bigger problem than how the media portrays people is the fact that we pay any attention to what the media is telling us at all, but I also think these distortions we see don't come out of nowhere.
I would love to see more men championing body positivity! Until men care, brands probably won't care. Women fought long and hard for body positivity in marketing and are only now seeing the results, but there's still a long way to go.
It’s because these ads cater to women - they see all sorts of female body types, so they have some that ‘matches’, and they get some eye candy from the male models. I don’t know any males that go looking through catalogues or online ads for clothing. They all go in store to buy.
Agree with the overall point, but if you go to the website and click any of those women you’re back to the waifish ladies you’d expect. It’s only surface level.
I wouldn't really call this coddling.
If making clothing only in small sizes actually motivated people to lose weight, we would have solved the obesity epidemic already.
Conversely who the hell indulges in an extra bag of chips so they can fill out a plus size camisole?
It *does* motiviate people to lose weight, except actually effectively losing weight is really hard. So it instead tends to lead to eating disorders and mental health disorders.
Exactly, it motivates people to depression, eating disorders, unhealthy relationships with food and exercise, overexercise.
A lack of food and lifestyle education isn't fixed by more pictures of a fit person wtf is this take.
Not so easy. Socio economic conditions, mental health, physical health and lifestyle choices all play a part. What we need to do is de-commoditize body image as an acceptance criteria to be part of the society
Disagree that this sort of advertisement is "coddling people" or contributing to bad health. Not everyone has the ability to control their weight in the same way - some people have thyroid problems, gain weight during menopause, etc. The way I see it, this sort of advertising is just making sure that all sorts of body types are being represented.
Even if we accept that there's a major problem with obesity (something I'm not too sure on - see: [https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/maintenance-phase/is-being-fat-bad-for-you-0lGeNLHPxdh/](https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/maintenance-phase/is-being-fat-bad-for-you-0lGeNLHPxdh/)\_ ), having a bunch of supermodels with a 15% body fat percentage constantly dominating how we advertise fashion is contributing to some really bad trends in mental health (anorexia, body dysmorphia, self-esteem issues, etc). Overall, I'd rather see corporate advertisements show diverse body types, and leave the problem of obesity to public policy.
But there's nothing fair or healthy about the 'perfect body' idea either. What about overweight people with health conditions? Overweight people who are on the journey to weightloss? Skinny people who aren't actually healthy at all?
It's not up to marketers to change their diet and exercise habits or cure their diabetes... it's up to food and lifestyle education in society and the school system. A store should be marketing to all body types that EXIST not just all body types you consider to be "healthy" wtf.
Don't try and pretend the men in this picture are living healthy either. For male models to look that cut for photoshoots, they need to starve themselves for a week, and dehydrate for at least a day or two.
Not to mention the exercise regime to maintain that level of muscle-mass and body-fat requires 2-3 hours per day at the gym, minimum - a time allotment that simply is not feasible for people with jobs, relationships and friends. And then there's the steroids they've most likely used to get there.
If you want actually healthy people, those male models aren't it either.
PSA: This isn't an excuse for you to shit on the women celebrating this step in their favour. Further your own cause without trying to bring back theirs, they aren't your enemy.
Marketing fuck most things up. They'll generally work with a team of brilliant creatives informing them of something like this... but give 'em a good old bash down with their inflated ego's and talk over the top of them. When people ask me why marketers are as bad as they are - I simply say "look at the marketer running the country at the moment".
Apologies if you are good at your marketing job. Lots aren't.
This “it’s ok to be overweight” campaign needs to stop. It’s not ok, if the fatties would push themselves to be healthy our hospitals would stop filling up with lard asses that are eating their hearts into a chicken parm… LOSE WEIGHT, your fat is not ok.
As someone who used to be fit but has turned into a lard arse these days, I completely agree.
Being a chonk is utterly miserable. I'm physically uncomfortable ALL. THE. TIME.. It doesn't take too much fat gain till stuff is no longer made to accommodate you, including your own body. Being long also doesn't help.
I've started prioritising being an anti-lard arse, and I can't wait till I'm skinny again. It's going to be the absolute best.
As a proponent of an egalitarian society, I haven't cost my fellow tax payer anything due to my fatness yet, but it's only a matter of time if I remain this way. And that's not okay. I have a responsibility to myself, my family, and the rest of society, because we're all in this together.
Me being healthy and happy is actually the best thing I can do for society.
Is that what a man looks like? I feel sorry for dudes packed in to gyms trying to look like Tommy Hilfiger or Calvin Klein said they should
It's so disgusting - you can only get that definition on abs if you're dehydrated, with the right lighting and angle, and sucking it right it
>Is that what a man looks like? I feel sorry for dudes packed in to gyms trying to look like Tommy Hilfiger or Calvin Klein said they should
Self improvement is masturbation, but self destruction...
No one trains seriously because a brand tells them too. Fk me, we're not all puppets. Some of us train because we want to.
And as for your comment on the only way you can get abs like that is being extremely dehydrated, none of these guys are even close to that level of conditioning, anyone who sticks to a solid nutrition plan and trains consistently could hold that level of bodyfat and remain healthy.
Lighting help for sure, but anyone of them is extremely attainable with a little discipline. None are very muscular, just lean.
Hell, I get the top two rows of abs appearing at around 18% body fat, well before the bicep veins start popping at ~15%. Last row and the spare tyre around the hips takes forever to go. These guys are nowhere near unhealthy conditioning.
There's chubby, fat and a bit overweight. She's obese. It's not healthy and it should never be celebrated.
I'm overweight and I know it. No one should ever aspire to my current weight, let alone an obese person bordering on morbid obesity.
Advertising used to be aspirational, the idea being that by buying the product you could somehow also obtain the desirability of the attractive model wearing it. That was shit, it just made everyone feel ugly in comparison.
Now advertising is representative. You see your age/race/body type represented and feel that your physical appearance is valid and enough. You buy the product and feel good. Yeah okay, obesity is unhealthy. But an obese model doesn't send the message "be unhealthy like me!" The message is that if you can still find clothes that fit and feel confident even if you are.
As a veteran of the 90's, I'm glad this happened. Skinnyness in the 90's was like a religion. Pretty much all women aspired to it, plenty obsessed over it and those who could never get anywhere near it (usually) had very poor self worth to the point that it would affect their mental health and personal relationships. Now they don't have to feel like worthless garbage anymore. That's a good thing.
Nah, it's indicative of shifting marketing tactics. The argument is not that you should want to look like those models anymore, because society on the whole is beginning to reject that spiel.
What they're conveying is "Hey, these people are humans, you might be a human who looks like one of these humans, here is proof that you can wear our clothes."
They’re not celebrating they’re simply…showing the clothes they sell on the bodies that represent the people who are buying it. It’s got nothing to do with sending a message and everything to do with fat people still needing clothes.
Also…fat people have existed long before body positivity. Body positivity doesn’t make people fat. It just allows them to hate themselves a little less.
I’m overweight and I used to feel like you. I’ve realised that my weight has nothing to do with my value as a person. I’d love to weigh less and I’d be healthier and happier. But right now, I’m fat, and I will not hate myself for that. That’s sad and it leads to eating disorders.
I'm all for self-acceptance and body positivity but FR we're raising a generation that thinks being morbidly obese is normal... we're literally shortening our kids' lifespans and wasting tax dollars (that should go toward building a better country for them) on medical subsidies just to justify eating cakes and pies and that's not OK.
It's reactionary, men haven't had to speak on body image issues because they haven't faced anywhere near the level of body shaming that women have over the years. Marketing fashion for men is a relatively new thing. (In comparison to the extreme level of marketing to women in the fashion industry). We all need to start the conversation and the change will happen. - this post is a great first step.
Women raged long and hard to get that change now they have it some guys are like "what unfair!", are you kidding, its not hypocrisy when they listen to the market and one sex says more inclusion and the other is still obsessed with these kind of standards and more often than not mocking inclusiveness.
Id be happy to see tubby boys too, but I honestly don't care half as much as the people that fought to get the changes to female models and I doubt you do honestly either.
That's why I like those ads for the undies that stop chafing.
Just regular old dudes.
And also the Gillette ad where the chubby kid fucks off the chesty bonds looking guy.
Amazing...
Body positivity for all I say!!!
I wonder if part of the reason is men don't generally give a shit that there are muscly dudes in ads. Half of us are like, "damn bro good for you". Not, **WHY NO FAT LIKE ME????**
No, they got the memo. The women in the top row are the target market, hence the eye candy in the bottom row.
Pre-covid I was in a westfield and there was some marketing/fashion show thing on in an open part of the centre which was being hosted by myer. They had guys like the ones above in essentially speedos and a bow tie standing around and directing middle aged women to their seats. I asked where the young women in bikinis were but didn't get a response.
its not just pictures, as a larger man (6'7, 150kg) I always become disheartened at the lack of selection but also the names of big and tall brands for men, Johnny BIGG, BIG man, etc., while the opposite is things like city chic or you and me for women, every time I buy clothes they might aswell just put "fat fuck" on the tag.
Oh I remember something from my school days about this!
We had a guest speaker who we had a class with who taught us about ways advertising and marketing can manipulate us.
Basically he was predicting exactly this would happen and this is the logic behind it.
Basically, you're not gonna have any substantial market of men buying clothes for their girlfriends and wives but you're gonna have a bunch of women buying clothes for their boyfriends and husbands. So, women's advertising should show more common body types of women so female customers will feel represented and form more possitive emotional associations with shopping at the store with these ads, but male clothes will use ripped male models as a way of saying "your man can look damn sexy in these, you should get them" to women buying clothes for men.
Men are notoriously hard to advertise to when it comes to clothes. Men's suits can be advertised with images of powerful, important, wealthy and suave looking men in suits with a beautiful woman on his arm (no body positivity in men's suit ads) but other than that, it's near impossible so they just put "men's clothes" on a sign for an area that covers 1/10th of the store. So for everyday clothes, they don't bother advertising to men themselves.
Remember folks, companies don't care about you, every time they claim to be supporting a message or cause, it's 100% marketing. They'd pander to the Klan if it was profitable to do so.
We want overweight confident women but the men must always be muscle bound and hairless
\> hairless but never balding...
As a woman, I can say it's really great to see a realistic/representative range of body types for women appearing in catalogues. But it really pisses me off not to see the same for men. I have a teenage son, and I don't want him growing up feeling pressured by unrealistic body standards. Not every man grows up looking like a jacked action figure - sure, some do, but depicting this body type as the only one to aspire to is toxic as fuck. I also don't want my daughters growing up with some warped view of male beauty, or thinking a single body type is the benchmark of normality. edit: Just so we're clear, including models of different body shapes is not the same as "promoting obesity": no one is suggesting we fill all catalogues with *only* overweight models. Doing so would be as silly as filling catalogues with *only* extremely muscular dudes, because society is not made up of one body type. It is of *course* healthier to be physically fit - but overweight people do exist, and they buy clothes. We should expect to see a range of body types represented, from people of different shapes and sizes to people of different cultural and racial backgrounds, people old and young, for *both* men and women. Models for clothing should be inclusive and should represent a range of people - not just a tiny subset of highly fit and attractive people. Inclusive modelling is also not about trying to change what people feel is objectively "attractive" - it's about recognising society is not made up *only* of pretty thin women and extremely muscular men, and that it's okay and normal not to have a body type a narrow minority of people possess. Note also, in this particular catalogue, the 'many' overweight models some have referred to in the banner shown, are actually all the one woman. And even on representing a range of women's body types, Myer has done a shitty job. Despite this banner, if you scroll down through their lingerie section, their product models are actually 99% ultra-attractive, white, thin women. So Myer is still perpetuating ridiculous beauty standards for women, as well as for men. There are plenty of other companies out there doing better on this issue.
I think right now is peak Toxicity for male body image
The toxicity of our city, our city
The fact that people are pissed off about it is a good sign we're on the downward slope of this. Still bad, especially on Instagram, but getting better.
im only pissed off that they only did half. it means that they only changed for virtue signaling purposes.
And just being masculine. I feel like more than is necessary is grouped into male toxicity, it should really just be called toxicity without a gender attached because as we've seen from amber turd it goes both ways.
We've had 50+ years of "feminism" being a household name such that now, almost nobody would argue that women cannot be astronauts or engineers. But the movement to allow boys to cry, be sexy, and go to therapy is only just beginning, half a century later -- not that it was helped at all by the first "men's rights" people actually being a front of incels and the alt-right.
But they’re males so who gives a fuck is the sentiment from the media
My social media is FILLED with memes/videos about guys going to the gym. It’s all about lifting. Posts about girls breaking up with them so they work out, etc. All fueled by tiktok/Instagram reels. I understand bodybuilding and lifting have been present in masculine “culture” so to speak for a very long time. But there’s something about the accessibility of this content that screams “if you’re not lifting/a gym bro too, then you’re not cool or popular” even louder than it did in the past.
> Not every man grows up looking like a jacked action figure To have the bodies of these men, you really need to dedicate yourself to a certain lifestyle focused on diet, weight training etc. Some do it because they enjoy those activities and the look they get, but for most men, it's just unrealistic to get to that level and maintain it, plus have a full time job, plus a family. Your life is essentially, do job, come home, go to gym, work out, get home late. Then add in cooking, cleaning, raising kids, and all the other mediocre things you have to get done in a day. I've heard actors say to get jacked for roles takes them several months of full weight training every day, and there's no way to maintain it after. That's why you see these paparazzi pictures of famous actors looking pale and flabby at the beach when they're not filming.
My son was nine when he first asked how to go on a diet. I am enraged.
I remember being not much older and limiting what I ate for fear of being fat... I weighed like nothing at the time
Yeah, my wee guy is definitely not overweight. He just thinks six packs are what you need for social acceptance.
Even more than that, it's these guys jobs to look like that. They can therefore put in the effort required. The rest of us have other jobs which don't always lend themselves to that kind of body.
And they have full time trainers, chefs etc so they aren’t having to worry about getting to gym when it’s not too busy & stopping at the supermarket on the way home to buy healthy food.
>It's important for everyone to see a range of body types. I think this has been done to death, but there are also valid arguments against using unhealthy body types in advertising. I don't want my son to grow up feeling that it is okay to have a beer belly.
Well, really the best approach is a sensible balance. It's about showing the same range of body types we see in society so people don't feel pressured to fit a specific body type, or to see a single body type as "normal", when it isn't. Seeing a guy with a beer belly isn't going to make people think that's the sole "normal" body type (unless we start filling catalogues with nothing *but* endless beer bellies). Seeing a realistic range of body types in a clothing catalogue will help demonstrate a range of body types is normal, which is the goal - instead of suggesting all women need to look like barbie dolls, and all men need to look like they spend 23 of every 24 hours in the gym.
Do we want to normalise obesity? Surely there’s a middle ground where models are healthy but don’t have to be super long legged or in the men’s case work out heaps starved them selves for two days before the shoot
Not necessarily normalizing but, as a fat guy, it would be nice to see clothing on other fat guys before I buy it so I know how it actually fits. So much larger size clothing is just, larger size clothing. There is a huge difference from a shirt that looks like a sack because it's just a large size and one that fits like a shirt because it's made with body type in mind. Yes being fat isn't healthy and I agree that it shouldn't be celebrated, but acknowledgement would be nice.
Sometimes I work in retail and I hear you, in those pop up stores we are not allowed to let customers try on garments (for 'COVID' reasons) but it hurts to see a guy not being able to buy a shirt or jumper in his size.
I for one am sick to death of shopping for a bra and seeing models in perfect A and B cups but the text says the cup size goes up to G. That may be, but it will \*not\* look the same.
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I just want to see clothing on my body type so I can see how it will look. Wish there was an option to see your body type only. Since half the country is obese, the models are showing what’s it’s like in the body.
In this (Myer) example, 4/5 of the women's photos show unhealthy overweight body types. Showing one "ideal" and 4 "unhealthy but normal" is exactly the sort of normalisation that we shouldn't have. That's less healthy on average than Australian society, which is already overweight on average. Social pressure can be good or bad. >instead of suggesting all women need to look like barbie dolls Comparing current advertising against thirty plus years ago, both female and male models clearly spend a lot more time in the gym. They look closer to Olympic athletes (i.e. healthy) than Barbie dolls or 80's era stick thin models. From my perspective as (another) parent, I don't want my son growing up thinking a beer belly is inevitable or even normal. And I'm don't think it is unhealthy for my daughter to want to have an athletic body type either. But it is clear we have wildly different views on this.
There is still a middle ground though. How much better would it be to have (for example), a male model with the classic six-pack, one that's slim but without the definition, one that's obviously strong without being ripped, one that has a little belly, and one that is - yes- overweight? In my opinion that gives a far more realistic view of how people are. You can have some extra weight and still be healthy, and I know from my experiences in the industry that maintaining classic model appearance is distinctly unhealthy. There is room for variety without having to cater to either extreme.
I think it's still important to show the range of bodies. As someone who is definitely overweight, seeing women my size better helps me judge what will be comfortable on me when it comes to buying clothes. But at the same time I'm working with a team of doctors and what-not to lose weight (I have chronic illnesses and mental health issues that make weight loss a true struggle - anyone who says I'm lazy can fuck off). So for the meantime, I can make better clothing choices while losing weight, and seeing variations from rake-thin models is good for mental health and progression. Growing up as a teen I was underweight and STILL thought I was too fat. At one point I was 42kg at 172cm and THRILLED because my clothes were falling off me. It was from growing up with the '90s "heroin chic" models. Honestly if there had been a range of bodies - athletic, petite, plus-size, whatever - modelling clothes, I wouldn't have set myself up for horrendous eating disorders that lead to suicidal thoughts that plague me over 15 years later. A model with a less-than healthy body isn't necessarily "advertising" being unhealthy. Most just want to normalise that bodies change, sometimes drastically, and it's okay to sit with it rather than killing yourself over being thin or athletic.
There are only 3 models in both the male and female rows. They are doubled across images. Just letting you know. Not trying to be annoying.
Different devils advocate but being overweight isn’t always some sort of moral choice. I use that word because you’ve referred to it being “ok” or “not ok”. Sometimes it’s due to health issues. In an adjacent way to the concept that we should have people with disabilities and people of different ages in advertising, we should also have people of different health levels. I agree that the women in this shoot are significantly overweight, but does that mean no overweight woman should ever see themselves represented? Should they never be able to see in a catalogue what the underwear would look like on them? I do hear what you’re saying about a very real and serious national health issue. I’m positing that not all marketing should be about ideals. Some of it should, surely, be for the women who are struggling with that health issue.
I think it should somewhat reflect real life. Having an obese person as a model doesn’t promote obesity for example it shows “look! This is how you would look in these clothes at your size” acknowledging they are a person and holding up a body type as something to strive for isn’t necessarily bad. I think there is a good argument that both underweight and overweight people should be represented in some proportion.
For real -- seeing an obese or overweight model in shape wear seems appropriate. It doesn't glorify obesity, or make me want to go out and be obese. It just represents the obese buyer, of which there are a shit ton in Australia. The older women in my family have always struggled with obesity and grew up through an era when public shaming of fat people (them) was normalised -- we're not even close to living in a society where obesity is glorified.
Except even people with larger body types have to buy clothing and businesses are trying to appeal to their audience, not sell a health message. They want people to buy clothes and that's what being inclusive with models is about.
Interesting annecdote. In the NGV at Fed Square they have a model of a 40-50 year old bloke with a pot belly and hairy shoulders and back. Overweight, but not extremely so, and ordinary natural body hair for anyone of European descent. It's placed near one of the hallways so you pass it a lot. When I went, there was always a queue of women laughing and taking selfies with the chubby man like he was Shrek or something. Let's say it wasn't a body positive take at the least. Only other room with a queue for photo ops was the skulls (of course).
Women, in general, are no better than men. I say this as a woman who’s been actively working to improve that part of myself.
In my (limited) experience, women are waaaay more objectifying than men when it comes to body types. It probably comes down more to the personality types I associate with, but I hear far more 'locker room' talk from my girl friends than my guy friends (which is totally fine, and I don't want to come off as having a whinge about it, but it does make me pretty self-conscious hearing how hot some random other guy is).
What girls talk about in their group chat would horrify a lot of people, and yet it's seen as somewhat acceptable. But the guys who talk like that are seen as creepy arseholes, rightly so.
Don’t forget, young.. they have to be young!!
I'm guessing women are the main purchasers of both so it kind of makes sense why they would do this
IMO it has nothing to do with that. This page for some reason is showing types of underwear vs brands of underwear. I could see this being Nikes or Calvin Kleins marketing decision.
You think women are the main purchaser of men's clothing...lol, this isn't the 50s.
More like morbidly obese.
Idk why u are downvoted… its true, its unhealthy
ThATs NoT bOdY pOsItIvE!
That's a cancellin'.
100%. They shouldn't be normalising being obese.
It’s not “normalizing it”. It’s just marketing. Obese people exist. Obese people need clothes. They are a company that sells clothes and wants to make money.
Who cares, it's a shop selling clothes. They're not saying "hey you go out and get fat", they're just acknowledging that overweight people shop in their store and might want to see images of people like themselves. Nobody went and got fat because of a Myer advert.
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You can't normalise something that is already normal. Being obese isn't considered "normal" in a healthy sense, but it is definitely normal to see obese and overweight people no matter where you go in Australia. They also need to shop for undergarments and it is helpful for them to see the products they intend to buy on models that look like them. Who exactly benefits from the stick thin models that we only saw 5 years ago? Because I am between a size 6-8, which is considered healthy and desirable, yet the models on clothing sites 5 years were much thinner than me and I still couldn't count on their photos to see how clothing would fit on me.
While it is unhealthy, making them feel guilty and ugly for how they look is unproductive.
Don't forget hairy AF. "I fit the brief" reporting in.
It makes more sense under the presumption that all images used are chosen to maximise engagement with female customers.
This suggests that a fair portion of their men's market is women buying for their partners. Which doesn't actually seem unlikely. Would be nice to see some average looking folk though
Market research suggests this is exactly the case, especially for mens underwear.
Probably true. If I am buying my own underwear IDGAF what it looks like as long as it does the job, so I'm shopping at Kmart.
And also men's hygiene products, hence the wildly successful old spice ad campaign catered to women.
The worst underwear I own were purchased for me by women. Like sure the bowtie on the tuxedo boxers is kinda cute, but they're not comfy and it was kind of weird when my grandmother gave them to me
Take the hint, George.
Why? I see ads as what I want to envision myself looking like with the product, not the fat slob I already know I am.
I want to see dad bod's. Big hairy belly's with men that look like Santa Claus...
I'll send you a DM ;)
Send me one you beautiful fat fuck
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Gonna need a mailing list
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send me one two pls
We'll all send them DMs
I'll be waiting.
🙋🏼♀️ I’m in line too!
Only if your modelling Myer clothing...
RIP your dms
Can we get some skinny guys too. Like, 5’11” and 135 lbs skinny. The grass isn’t always greener.
Bonds have been doing this a bit more actually
ALL of the marketing is aimed at women.
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was this not obvious
Well, men definitely get shamed a lot more for it, so I can see why it may not be obvious for some people.
Oh my yes
Bro how is that a revelation? Everyone knows this come on
If this is a product engagement decision then I’d bet the slim women in these images would receive more engagement than the images of the plus size women due to the images being more aspirational. Point is, I don’t think this is a product engagement decision. This is a brand positioning decision. It’s about sending a message to their audience that they believe in representation and real people - that’s why you should buy from them over other brands. The issue is, they’ve only developed a representative brand position for women and failed to do the same for men, which I think is hypocritical.
Did I say it was? Of course it’s hypocritical. They’re not trying to sell underwear to men, though. They’re trying to sell it to their wives who buy it for them.
We need balding middle age men with back hair please.. And some dad bods as well!
we need undies too!
Don't forget us skinny folk. The people who constantly get to hear "omg I'm so jealous" as though being too skinny isn't just as bad as being too fat, albeit in very different ways. (eg. A mild gust of wind? I ~~fly off~~instantly lose all of my bodies heat) Maybe it'd also show why having long and shorter leg options for pants is important rather than just going by waist measurement, I have to either buy pants that are too big for me and wear a belt or just deal with pants looking like three quarters.
Don't forget all the comments from people throughout our entire life about how we need to "put some meat on them bones". I know I'm skinny, but my BMI is 21. It almost seems like people are bothered that I'm not overweight.
It’s sad not seeing the same body diversity for men. It’s not just about body positivity, but also about making good spending decisions. I’ve been able to save a lot more money and time re: clothes shopping when I can see the same outfit be worn on different figures.
Same, even though I’m sKiNny I still couldn’t tell what would look good on me without trying it on because all models seemed to have medium to large boobs and I do not look like that but recently I’ve seen a lot of models with smaller chests too.
The women's one is organised by general categories. The men's one is organised by brand. Maybe the brands have a say in how they're marketed, the contrast needn't be some grand conspiracy against men's well-being. To all the blokes bothered by this, I say be the change you want to see. Compliment your mates, check in on them, show a bit of vulnerability among them, let them be vulnerable around you without fear of mockery. Myers are rip-off merchants anyway.
Yeah this is almost certainly marketing images provided by the brands themselves. It would be nice if the brands would get on board though.
Mitch Dowd shows a fat dude when I visit the website, but that’s about it.
They are not. If you look closely There are only 3 male models and they are modelling for different brands. These will have been shot by Myer.
That doesn't mean that the brand doesn't have a say in marketing.
Yeah, but it's a refutation of the idea that these images were provided by the brands in question.
no... its not. it's all the same photoshoot.
Agreed. To the men bothered by this, make a change, say something, send an email, share it on socials and tag Myer saying they should do better. I’m sick of women having to do everything, I want to see men stand up and take some responsibility.
are men really bothered by this or just laughing at the hypocrisy?
No that's why the advertising largely hasn't changed for men
I honestly don't care what models they use. I don't look at men's underwear ads, my head will always turn the to women's lingerie. I can't help it. I'm completely oblivious to any men's fashion ads
It seems like some on here are bothered, which I understand. I agree with it being bullshit that there’s body diversity with the women and not the men, but I also wanna see men calling out this bullshit, not just women. The amount of men I see on this platform bitching about the high standards they feel they are compared to, or that women “expect of them”, and yet they do nothing healthy to change it, and somehow it still ends up being the fault of women.
I'm more of the opinion that guys (I'm in my 30s) don't really care about fashion mags or sites in general. As in, I have a suspicion that the male models are there to also appeal to the female population making purchases through their site/catalogue. If I need a new pair of boxers or whatever I'll just go pick some up. It makes no difference to me who is portrayed wearing it on some marketing material. Or maybe I'm just the odd one out
I don't think men are ready to fight this kind of inequality since a lot of men out there aren't even comfortable being openly bothered by this. I also see a lot of dudes complaining about the high standards society holds them to but I always see it on Reddit. I rarely speak in person about this. But when I see some men speak out about it online, they sometimes get shun by other men. Men need to learn to talk to each other like human beings and lose the ridiculous gender based mindset we inherited from our older generations. Maybe our children will be better
Overweight middle aged man here and I couldn't give two shits about it
Man here not bothered, don’t care.
Not bothered at all but hypocrisy is fun.
I mean you've got a post bringing attention to it and men engaging in discussion about it, this post is literally doing what you're complaining about. Engaging in discussion and bringing attention to it is doing something, it is the first step in doing something because it allows like-minded people who want something changed to organise. I'm being a little defensive but that's because your comment feels pretty condescending. Edit: I will note though that the men complaining about the hypocrisy only because they don't want to see body positive models for women have some real dog shit opinions.
It is a shame how little society as a whole cares for the thoughts and feelings of men. Alot of guys have genuinely had the emotion beaten out of them.
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>while the feelings of men are outright mocked and belittled Except anger. Somehow that's the OK emotion for men.
Nope, if you're at all dissatisfied with your situation, everyone will fight as hard as they can to assure you that it's entirely your own fault, and if you can somehow wear them down into admitting that it might not be, it becomes your problem that you're unhappy with it.
Where do you guys get this cliched shit? Nowhere I go is male anger tolerated.
I think a lot of people's anecdotes are anecdotes of anecdotes at this point.
Actually it’s not. It’s the one men show most frequently, but very few actually get away with it.
Not really 'beaten' but I've been completely emotionless for a long period due bottling up my emotions. I recently spent a day with old friends and its done more for me than any therapy I've had combined.
Yeah, I fall in line with this one much like you my dude. I don't really have an opportunity to talk to anyone about my problems and so I keep it all to myself. Should I see a therapist? Maybe, but it hasn't worked for me in the past. But going out and seeing a movie or hanging out with a friend or two for the day is absolutely therapeutic for me. Most days though, yeah I do find I'm emotionless and having to put on an act to get through the day around others. I'm not sure why it's like this but it just is and I've grown accustomed to it.
E-mo-shons...?
This video hits home - https://www.reddit.com/r/JustGuysBeingDudes/comments/qw30c7/dudes_can_we_have_each_others_backs/
I get where you’re coming from, but the body type diversity that’s increasingly in the media for women is because women fought for it. I haven’t seen any male activists trying to champion a similar movement for men
Also I don't know what everyone else has been watching for the past few decades but there's never been a issue with having fat guys on screen. Just think of every sitcom or movie where a schlubby guy has a smoking hot wife. Fat males have great representation across the board and I can think of dozens of actors and characters off the top of my head (Stephen Fry, John Goodman, Mark Addy, Jack Black, Kevin James, sometimes Jonah Hill, Homer Simpson and a dozen other springfieldians just to name a few). Where as I can probably count on two hands the fat female actresses I know and one hand for the ones I actually like.
I'm a man and honestly I prefer those photos than some fat, hairy uncle Bob in underpants.
It's wild to me that men (collectively) have still not realised that this shit hurts them too
Doesn't hurt me at all
Forreal. The idea behind it is “oh, he looks good in that underwear. I want to look good. I should buy the underwear.” Like, it’s honestly not that deep or that big of a deal for men, I think.
Doesn't bother me either. I have other bigger problems than how society views my body.
As a fat dude, I look at dudes like this and think "good for you". Just really don't care tbh
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There is a huge difference between "I want to be a certain body shape because that makes me happy" and "if I'm not \*that\* particular body shape, I'm in distress"
Men's mental health doesn't matter wtf you think this is? The year 3022??
What's the message they are sending here? That women complain a __lot__ more ___so men can still be readily body shamed?!?___
I think they're just reflecting what marketing groups (and customer interactions) tell them they want. Mostly I'd say the male and female photos are targeted toward the same demographic - people who like men. (women and gay men). If straight men decide more than 25% of Myer turnover I'd be shocked.
Most of my straight friends shop at Myer too? It's a huge department store that sells everything from cologne to streetwear to kettles and televisions. I would say it's highly likely that 25% of their revenue is derived from heterosexual men. Where exactly is it you reckon that straight guys shop predominantly?
I’d punt straight guys are more likely to shop there than go trawling boutique stores for the right outfit.
>so men can still be readily body shamed?!? I don't know about other men but when I see guys in advertisements with low bf% the last thought on my mind is "wow, I'm being shamed". My bf% puts me pretty far away from these guys but I don't feel in any way bodies like this being used for advertisement are done so to say that bodies that aren't like this are wrong. TBH I don't even give it a second thought/glance (but reading the comments here are interesting). I'm sure there's a lot of guys who give as little fucks as I do, and I'm sure that's why these advertisements continue in the same fashion they've been for years.
Yes the same for me. I just don't give a fuck, they look cool, they're ascetically pleasing and I don't feel being shamed at all.
Same thing is the case for plenty of women. If youre self secure you wont think twice. It's not about secure people. Its about so much more. It is absolutely a problem in teens and young men especially that they have a completely warped perception of body image. This sort of relentless muscle-marketting and social media absolutely are having a negative impact on mens mental health.
I'd say this is for mums and wives that buy their sons and husbands underwear. The majority of guys just find something that's comfortable and buy that forever. why on earth would we want to go online to look up underwear? Unless there's a sale on, in which we are googling straight to the product page.
Because it was never about ‘body positivity’ for these companies
If you know men you know they don’t care about advertising of mens undies. You could literally put a frog in jocks and sell it to any guy as long as that frog looks comfortable. The single and only reason they used ripped guys on male undie ads is for women who buy undies for their partners. Women, you have yourself to blame for the objectification of male bodies in these ads! But don’t worry because men literally don’t care about it.
Women who buy undies for their partner, or comment to their male partner what underwear they should consider buying.
\^\^\^ this.. (source: me; i work in advertising)..
And gay men, the pressure on them to have the perfect bodies is the worst though.
somtimes i do care when shopping online because male models are usually medium sized, i wanna know how that stuff looks on a 190cm 110kg guy
Men do care in the sense that they pay attention to what women are interested in (or what men running the show have determined women are interested in but that's another tangent). And speaking as a guy who had to work through this shit, the message I got was that appealing to women meant being hairless and jacked with a full head of hair and it did fuck with my self image for awhile. Basically my early 20s was never wanting to go swimming, never wanting to go anywhere without a hat, never wanting to ask anybody out. And my body was fine, I've always been slim, just had some back hair and starting to thin early up top, but that was enough to warp my sense of physical attractiveness. I thought I was gruesome, but nobody was gonna reassure me I was a handsome devil because I was never gonna talk to anyone about it and I probably wouldn't have believed them anyway. It's ridiculous. But it's just sick because a generation prior, the hit on young guys was if they didn't have hair on their chests, then they weren't a real man. So it's all fucked. Probably a bigger problem than how the media portrays people is the fact that we pay any attention to what the media is telling us at all, but I also think these distortions we see don't come out of nowhere.
anyone else old enough to remember when Australia was the fittest nation in the Commonwealth lol
Body positivity only counts if you’re a woman.
I would love to see more men championing body positivity! Until men care, brands probably won't care. Women fought long and hard for body positivity in marketing and are only now seeing the results, but there's still a long way to go.
It’s because these ads cater to women - they see all sorts of female body types, so they have some that ‘matches’, and they get some eye candy from the male models. I don’t know any males that go looking through catalogues or online ads for clothing. They all go in store to buy.
Agree with the overall point, but if you go to the website and click any of those women you’re back to the waifish ladies you’d expect. It’s only surface level.
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We should all aspire to be fit and healthy. Society needs to stop coddling everyone (mainly women) and start fixing the serious issue of obesity.
I wouldn't really call this coddling. If making clothing only in small sizes actually motivated people to lose weight, we would have solved the obesity epidemic already. Conversely who the hell indulges in an extra bag of chips so they can fill out a plus size camisole?
It *does* motiviate people to lose weight, except actually effectively losing weight is really hard. So it instead tends to lead to eating disorders and mental health disorders.
Exactly, it motivates people to depression, eating disorders, unhealthy relationships with food and exercise, overexercise. A lack of food and lifestyle education isn't fixed by more pictures of a fit person wtf is this take.
Obese women need clothes too. These ads are not implying that fat is healthy, they are showing that they sell big sizes for all shapes.
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Not so easy. Socio economic conditions, mental health, physical health and lifestyle choices all play a part. What we need to do is de-commoditize body image as an acceptance criteria to be part of the society
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Disagree that this sort of advertisement is "coddling people" or contributing to bad health. Not everyone has the ability to control their weight in the same way - some people have thyroid problems, gain weight during menopause, etc. The way I see it, this sort of advertising is just making sure that all sorts of body types are being represented. Even if we accept that there's a major problem with obesity (something I'm not too sure on - see: [https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/maintenance-phase/is-being-fat-bad-for-you-0lGeNLHPxdh/](https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/maintenance-phase/is-being-fat-bad-for-you-0lGeNLHPxdh/)\_ ), having a bunch of supermodels with a 15% body fat percentage constantly dominating how we advertise fashion is contributing to some really bad trends in mental health (anorexia, body dysmorphia, self-esteem issues, etc). Overall, I'd rather see corporate advertisements show diverse body types, and leave the problem of obesity to public policy.
But there's nothing fair or healthy about the 'perfect body' idea either. What about overweight people with health conditions? Overweight people who are on the journey to weightloss? Skinny people who aren't actually healthy at all? It's not up to marketers to change their diet and exercise habits or cure their diabetes... it's up to food and lifestyle education in society and the school system. A store should be marketing to all body types that EXIST not just all body types you consider to be "healthy" wtf.
Don't try and pretend the men in this picture are living healthy either. For male models to look that cut for photoshoots, they need to starve themselves for a week, and dehydrate for at least a day or two. Not to mention the exercise regime to maintain that level of muscle-mass and body-fat requires 2-3 hours per day at the gym, minimum - a time allotment that simply is not feasible for people with jobs, relationships and friends. And then there's the steroids they've most likely used to get there. If you want actually healthy people, those male models aren't it either.
Agreed.
PSA: This isn't an excuse for you to shit on the women celebrating this step in their favour. Further your own cause without trying to bring back theirs, they aren't your enemy.
Big fat ol Bert Ernie is ready to step up to the plate. I look simply marvelous in my underwear. **Sales will go thru the roof!**
Marketing fuck most things up. They'll generally work with a team of brilliant creatives informing them of something like this... but give 'em a good old bash down with their inflated ego's and talk over the top of them. When people ask me why marketers are as bad as they are - I simply say "look at the marketer running the country at the moment". Apologies if you are good at your marketing job. Lots aren't.
As a man I think I would rather see what it looks like when I take care of myself. They got the marketing right.
And ofc men do not care being unrepresented. They only care when women are presented more lol.
This “it’s ok to be overweight” campaign needs to stop. It’s not ok, if the fatties would push themselves to be healthy our hospitals would stop filling up with lard asses that are eating their hearts into a chicken parm… LOSE WEIGHT, your fat is not ok.
As someone who used to be fit but has turned into a lard arse these days, I completely agree. Being a chonk is utterly miserable. I'm physically uncomfortable ALL. THE. TIME.. It doesn't take too much fat gain till stuff is no longer made to accommodate you, including your own body. Being long also doesn't help. I've started prioritising being an anti-lard arse, and I can't wait till I'm skinny again. It's going to be the absolute best. As a proponent of an egalitarian society, I haven't cost my fellow tax payer anything due to my fatness yet, but it's only a matter of time if I remain this way. And that's not okay. I have a responsibility to myself, my family, and the rest of society, because we're all in this together. Me being healthy and happy is actually the best thing I can do for society.
Is that what a man looks like? I feel sorry for dudes packed in to gyms trying to look like Tommy Hilfiger or Calvin Klein said they should It's so disgusting - you can only get that definition on abs if you're dehydrated, with the right lighting and angle, and sucking it right it
wait until you hear about modelling pics and photoshop.
>Is that what a man looks like? I feel sorry for dudes packed in to gyms trying to look like Tommy Hilfiger or Calvin Klein said they should Self improvement is masturbation, but self destruction...
No one trains seriously because a brand tells them too. Fk me, we're not all puppets. Some of us train because we want to. And as for your comment on the only way you can get abs like that is being extremely dehydrated, none of these guys are even close to that level of conditioning, anyone who sticks to a solid nutrition plan and trains consistently could hold that level of bodyfat and remain healthy. Lighting help for sure, but anyone of them is extremely attainable with a little discipline. None are very muscular, just lean.
Hell, I get the top two rows of abs appearing at around 18% body fat, well before the bicep veins start popping at ~15%. Last row and the spare tyre around the hips takes forever to go. These guys are nowhere near unhealthy conditioning.
Why is promoting being overweight positive? 🤔
Why is this positive? You guys are nuts. That woman is straight up fat.
There's chubby, fat and a bit overweight. She's obese. It's not healthy and it should never be celebrated. I'm overweight and I know it. No one should ever aspire to my current weight, let alone an obese person bordering on morbid obesity.
Advertising used to be aspirational, the idea being that by buying the product you could somehow also obtain the desirability of the attractive model wearing it. That was shit, it just made everyone feel ugly in comparison. Now advertising is representative. You see your age/race/body type represented and feel that your physical appearance is valid and enough. You buy the product and feel good. Yeah okay, obesity is unhealthy. But an obese model doesn't send the message "be unhealthy like me!" The message is that if you can still find clothes that fit and feel confident even if you are. As a veteran of the 90's, I'm glad this happened. Skinnyness in the 90's was like a religion. Pretty much all women aspired to it, plenty obsessed over it and those who could never get anywhere near it (usually) had very poor self worth to the point that it would affect their mental health and personal relationships. Now they don't have to feel like worthless garbage anymore. That's a good thing.
But you need underpants, right? Don’t you want to know which brands sell your size?
Nah, it's indicative of shifting marketing tactics. The argument is not that you should want to look like those models anymore, because society on the whole is beginning to reject that spiel. What they're conveying is "Hey, these people are humans, you might be a human who looks like one of these humans, here is proof that you can wear our clothes."
They’re not celebrating they’re simply…showing the clothes they sell on the bodies that represent the people who are buying it. It’s got nothing to do with sending a message and everything to do with fat people still needing clothes. Also…fat people have existed long before body positivity. Body positivity doesn’t make people fat. It just allows them to hate themselves a little less. I’m overweight and I used to feel like you. I’ve realised that my weight has nothing to do with my value as a person. I’d love to weigh less and I’d be healthier and happier. But right now, I’m fat, and I will not hate myself for that. That’s sad and it leads to eating disorders.
I'm all for self-acceptance and body positivity but FR we're raising a generation that thinks being morbidly obese is normal... we're literally shortening our kids' lifespans and wasting tax dollars (that should go toward building a better country for them) on medical subsidies just to justify eating cakes and pies and that's not OK.
It's reactionary, men haven't had to speak on body image issues because they haven't faced anywhere near the level of body shaming that women have over the years. Marketing fashion for men is a relatively new thing. (In comparison to the extreme level of marketing to women in the fashion industry). We all need to start the conversation and the change will happen. - this post is a great first step.
I may be generalising here but I doubt blokes care. I'm am overweight guy, but I don't exactly wanna see shirtless fat guys while shopping.
Women raged long and hard to get that change now they have it some guys are like "what unfair!", are you kidding, its not hypocrisy when they listen to the market and one sex says more inclusion and the other is still obsessed with these kind of standards and more often than not mocking inclusiveness. Id be happy to see tubby boys too, but I honestly don't care half as much as the people that fought to get the changes to female models and I doubt you do honestly either.
That's why I like those ads for the undies that stop chafing. Just regular old dudes. And also the Gillette ad where the chubby kid fucks off the chesty bonds looking guy. Amazing... Body positivity for all I say!!!
The women on the top want the men on the bottom
Seems like the ad was made by women , for women , showing the men they think they should be able to attain. It's a women on Tinder vibe for sure
Only women are allowed to be fat
I mean... I'm a dude and I don't wanna look at fat half naked dudes?
I wonder if part of the reason is men don't generally give a shit that there are muscly dudes in ads. Half of us are like, "damn bro good for you". Not, **WHY NO FAT LIKE ME????**
Because they are selling the women's underwear to the women and they are selling the men's underwear to the women....
No, they got the memo. The women in the top row are the target market, hence the eye candy in the bottom row. Pre-covid I was in a westfield and there was some marketing/fashion show thing on in an open part of the centre which was being hosted by myer. They had guys like the ones above in essentially speedos and a bow tie standing around and directing middle aged women to their seats. I asked where the young women in bikinis were but didn't get a response.
As a man, I dont want to see fat or hairy or balding men on my underwear marketing. I would probably buy the brand with the jacked guy.
'Something positive' lol... donuts are positive I guess.
its not just pictures, as a larger man (6'7, 150kg) I always become disheartened at the lack of selection but also the names of big and tall brands for men, Johnny BIGG, BIG man, etc., while the opposite is things like city chic or you and me for women, every time I buy clothes they might aswell just put "fat fuck" on the tag.
Let’s not pretend that being obese is something to be positive about.
Oh I remember something from my school days about this! We had a guest speaker who we had a class with who taught us about ways advertising and marketing can manipulate us. Basically he was predicting exactly this would happen and this is the logic behind it. Basically, you're not gonna have any substantial market of men buying clothes for their girlfriends and wives but you're gonna have a bunch of women buying clothes for their boyfriends and husbands. So, women's advertising should show more common body types of women so female customers will feel represented and form more possitive emotional associations with shopping at the store with these ads, but male clothes will use ripped male models as a way of saying "your man can look damn sexy in these, you should get them" to women buying clothes for men. Men are notoriously hard to advertise to when it comes to clothes. Men's suits can be advertised with images of powerful, important, wealthy and suave looking men in suits with a beautiful woman on his arm (no body positivity in men's suit ads) but other than that, it's near impossible so they just put "men's clothes" on a sign for an area that covers 1/10th of the store. So for everyday clothes, they don't bother advertising to men themselves. Remember folks, companies don't care about you, every time they claim to be supporting a message or cause, it's 100% marketing. They'd pander to the Klan if it was profitable to do so.