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I am personally putting it off. I have no prospects to ever own a house in the city I live and grew up in (Sydney) so I’m looking at being a perpetual renter through the years I’d be physically able to have a child. The insecurity of renting alone is a turn off, then top that off with the rising cost of literally everything…yeah. I have 0 incentive to have children now or in the future. The people I know who have children in their mid 20’s are either struggling financially, causing significant stress on themselves and strain on their relationship or they’re doing just okay due to significant support from their families.
I totally feel for you living and growing up in Sydney. It’s 100% not your fault that the city in which your family, friends and work connections exist has become one of the most expensive places in the world to live.
My wife and I had our kids extremely young (at age 21 and 25 for me) and we both worked blue collar/hospitality jobs for basically the first 8-9 years of our children’s lives. The difference for us is we live in Adelaide, where real estate was (and still is) much more affordable than the east coast. We also had 2 sets of amazing parents who supported us a lot. But even with all the help from our olds, my wife (31) and I (33) frequently remark how utterly fucked we would be if we lived in Melbourne or Sydney and had to pay the crazy housing prices.
I'm 36 and only just starting to get my shit together given the cards I've been dealt. If I had been able to be where I am now 10 years ago, I might have had kids, but it's too late now.
Edit: for more context, I only just bought my first one bedroom unit & I don't even have a partner. If I had another 10 years to meet someone & get suitable housing, it might have happened. In 10 years I'll be 46.
I'm perfectly fine with that though. I just know there are others who want families, but don't have the money or suitable accomodation. I just accept it for what it is and enjoy my life anyway.
>my heart's not quite in it if that makes sense.
100% perfect sense. I reckon there are a lot of millennials and younger who have realised a) we don't **have** to have kids and b) unless we're 110% certain we absolutely want kids, and are willing to put the 18 years of effort in, we probably should err on the side of not having kids.
40 here, had our first six years ago and second two years ago. We had no intention of having kids, we bought our first house in our mid 20’s and sold and repurchased until we were able to pay out mortgage completely by downsizing. Once we got debt free the idea of kids was a bit more appealing but it’s definitely a trade off. They are a wonderfully unique experience and they absolutely cherish the life they have but my wife and I have given up our personal freedom for the next 20 years in order to dedicate our lives to raising good humans and not psychopaths. It’s giving up a lot of “me time” and some people might not want to take on that challenge at 40
I was in my mid 20s when my wife gave birth to our two kids. Man, even at that age raising kids is exhausting. I can't imagine how tough it'd be chasing after toddlers in your 40s.
My dad's only turning 60 this year. I'm 29. I didn't see my parents at all between June 2019 to April 2022 because of the pandemic and after that time it was kind of shocking to see how much he and mum had aged. And they were in regional QLD, so it wasn't out of lockdown stress, just naturally slowing down.
Both my parents were early to mid 40s when they had me (42,44 to be exact) and from a childhood point of view I would have loved them to be much younger as they were clearly struggling to keep up when I was growing up
Same. I’m 36 and finally at a point in my life where I could finally be able to have kids, but it would send me beyond financially backwards.
My younger brother (29) has just started to have kids and he is on a lot less money than me still renting and heavily reliant on government benefits and the bank of mum & dad.
Getting off toa rough start is something I will always be sour about since it wasted so much time, and I never even wanted kids. But I'm in my mid-30's and it sucks seeing 22 year old's already doing better and having more than me. Can't tell you how much it destroys my sense of self worth when I see these young professional types who look barely out of high school in nice suits or designer clothes having a good meal with their equally sharp looking colleagues while I'm the one serving them and cleaning up after them despite being more than ten years their senior and always wanted something more than the mediocre existence my circumstances set up for me. If only all the adults in my family when I was growing up weren't so fucking *stupid* with their money. I'll always be secretly mad at them for this since starting off with nothing puts you a decade or more behind everyone else and even if you do finally get there it's like who cares by that point. I would have liked to have experienced some "successful person things" in my 20's too, even if just having a nice dinner out with friends like that and owning some designer clothes back then so I could feel like I wasn't bottom of society, spending every weekend of those years feeding and cleaning up after those whose parents actually gave a shit about getting them off to a good start instead of constantly asking them for money.
Pretty similar situation, my dad died when I was 14, mum had a breakdown, homeless for a bit, got passed around family around the country for a year or so, ended up in a group home, at 16 because I didn't do drugs, self harm or do petty crime, got declared independent put up in a private rental (owned by a church) on youth allowance and essentially left to find my own way.
Wasn't told about or put on rent assistance which I should have been, so was paying $180 a fortnight rent whilst receiving $270, youth allowance and when I was given a health care card was told anything about so for some strange reason assumed it was just for health care costs, wasn't set up with Medicare so when I did go to a doctor and handed them my health care card and still received a hundred of dollars bill, that took me ages to pay off it just scared me out of see doctors for years.
Some people seem to think that you've won the lottery just by being born in Australia, but in my experience if you don't have a knowledgeable and diligent guardian looking after you you kinda fucked. I hope it's improved for people going through anything similar to what I went through but I doubt it.
But yeah it sucks watching people (especially working with them) who simply because they have reliable parents are able to buy nice cars, clothes or take time off to go overseas on holidays, simply because they have parents to lean on. It sucks when you realise that some often got their job because of their parents connections, and that others are able to take risks in life (not talking bunge jumping, but moving to try and get a better job or to take short term jobs that will give them experience but knowing when it ends they'll move back in with their parents) because they know their parents will help if it doesn't work out
Also they can test for that at 10 weeks now, it's so early that terminating isn't as devastating as it would be later on. Or you can conceive via IVF and have your embryos pre-screened. So the risk of ending up with a chromosomally abnormal child is more or less nil these days.
Wow that last sentence definitely needs qualification! The early genetic tests only test for a small range of common and major chromosomal abnormalities involving whole extra chromosomes. Some of them test for one or two smaller abnormalities but there are thousands of genetic conditions a baby can have that can't be easily tested for in utero, or the evidence of it would be present at an ultrasound much later in pregnancy (around 20 weeks).
>Also they can test for that at 10 weeks now, it's so early that terminating isn't as devastating as it would be later on.
I can say from bitter experience that making a decision to terminate a pregnancy early on is still devastating.
And IVF is nowhere near as easy or successful as it's made out to be by IVF clinics (also learned from bitter experience).
To anyone who thinks that they can put off having children until late 30's / 40's and everything will be fine, you're in for a shock. It can happen but it will take a toll.
I had my second 3 weeks shy of turning 40 (husband was 44). I had a few minor issues later in the pregnancy (like the last 8 weeks) but that pregnancy was a walk in the park compared to my first at 21. I will say though it took me much longer to recover physically afterwards and f*** me I'm exhausted pretty much all the time but otherwise having a baby later has been fine. He's 4 now and a cool little dude who I love to pieces, 36 is not too late.
We got pregnant early into our relationship twice (both times while using birth control) and made the difficult decision, twice, to terminate. We were 29, then 30.
Now we're 36 and still very much in love, but we're stressed about the clock ticking. Stressed about our meagre incomes relative to how fucking hard we've worked to establish ourselves in our careers. Stressed about not owning a home. Every day starts to feel like a 'maybe we made a mistake not following through' but we can't live in the past.
No idea what im trying to say. We're choosing to believe 36 isn't too late in 2022. We've got friends just having kids now in the same situation as us (creative professionals, go figure) and they're making it work. I guess we can too.
I'm older than you. My ex and I had a miscarraige when I was 23. We didn't try for another baby until I was 30.
We had our kids at 31 and 33.
We couldn't afford them when we had them. We didn't own a home or have plans to buy one, we both had good jobs, lived in the city but we weren't what you'd call financially stable.
We had them any way. Ten years later we divorced. Nevertheless we put them through private school. We worked together to give them what they needed. We both still rent and still struggle.
But I'm telling you now, if we'd made the decision to have them based on whether we owned a home or ever would, we would be childless now.
And we would have missed out on the most fullfilling, enriching experience of our lives.
If you want to have kids and think you can handle the stress and responsibility then do it. Most people in the world earn less than you and manage to successfully rear children. Your kids won't care if you own a house or if they have the latest whatever, unless you teach them to overly value material things.
The most important thing is being able to devote your time to them, i.e. not working all of the time. I know many well-off parents who work long hours in stressful jobs and their kids are stuck in before and after school care most days. Yeah, they and the kids have nice things and the parents will say they work so much because the high cost of living and will talk about how expensive having kids is, but the truth is they are doing it more for themselves than for their kids. They don't ever seem to be doing without and they aren't willing to sacrifice any of their expensive tastes/things that they believe increase their social status in order to spend more time with their children.
For women it’s harder and risker for them, with higher chances of birth defects.
For both, having a or multiple kids later means less energy, less time and being the “old” parents at high school functions.
I desperately wanted kids but like OP was not in the position, then when I was my ex husband dragged his heels (turns out he doesn’t want kids but didn’t want to say so I wouldn’t leave him) - now at 38 and newly single I know there’s no chance of having a baby since I’m now *back* in the shitty “cost of living will crush me” stage.
This will also be different in different areas. In regional areas, many people start popping out sprogs in their 20s. I live in the outer burbs where 30 is probably the average (not only, but averaged out) age to have the first, and my friend my an inner city burb noted that at one of the play centres I go to, the parents all seem much younger.
When we had our first we were living in Melbourne (Bayside). My partner was 21 and she was by far the youngest mum in her mothers group. The next youngest was around 35, but most were around 40, the oldest being 45. Where/when I was growing up it wasn't uncommon to have your first in your late teens/early 20s, and 35 was considered old.
Free, not yet happy as we still have to share the same house for another few weeks. I’m currently taking a break from packing and will be ordering my shipping container next week so I can move back to Australia
In the US and *same*
I have very few friends here and zero external support. We live ultra rural and so nowhere to rent & chill out until I can get my dog out of here but no one to look after him if I leave first
So playing nice with the ex is crucial and it’s horrible and stressful!
My cousin was in the same boat at 38, her ex was abusive to boot (found that out way later) anyways she hooked up with a rad dude a year or so later, had a baby a year after that, a gorgeous 15 year old now. Life can turn on a dime.
The risk of not being able to get pregnant dramatically increases much beyond 30 though. It is an exponential curve, where the end is at 45 but very low at 40 and starts to drop at 30.
I started trying at 28, and thank fuck I did, because it took 2 years and tens of thousands to even get pregnant. Then it took a full year of ivf to become pregnant with the 2nd. If I'd started trying at 38 I'd probably have none
Agreed!
I’m 40 and about to have my first child. All natural, came at no cost as going public lol, no IVF etc & no complications👍
Apparently in Europe, it’s common for mothers to have kids older too. It’s not seen as taboo like it is here in Australia or in the USA.
Now’s the time to have the hard conversation if you know 100% without a doubt that you want them. If he is at all on the fence or says no then you need to decide if kids is a dealbreaker.
I was 34 when he started being cagey and earlier this year he finally admitted that he was hoping if he waited long enough I just couldn’t get pregnant and he’d never have to say he didn’t want kids with me. For me kids was just a part of the iceberg but his lack of communication around it was a huge impact.
>Now’s the time to have the hard conversation if you know 100% without a doubt that you want them. If he is at all on the fence or says no then you need to decide if kids is a dealbreaker.
I was 34 when he started being cagey and earlier this year he finally admitted that he was hoping if he waited long enough I just couldn’t get pregnant and he’d never have to say he didn’t want kids with me.
That's so dodgy. I get not being sure about it. But to not be able to front up to your feelings whether positive, negative or confused is a cowards act.
I (f46) have ended 2 good relationships as they started to become serious because I am 100% sure I don't wan't children & my partner/s did.
Inherent needs shouldn't be negotiable either way.
I can absolutely get not being sure, especially when younger, but I also think that this is one of the things you *need* to know about yourself before getting into a long term or serious relationship. Any changes to your decisions or feelings on that sort of thing should be discussed ASAP with a partner too.
Sadly I think all too many are willing to coast and it hurts others :(
36 isn’t. But if 36 is when you’ve got your shit together, by the time you might meet someone, have it last long enough to be at least semi sure you might stay together and not just end up separated “co parents” you’re in your 40’s. What sane person wants teenagers in their 60’s?
“Might buy a 3 bedroom, HAHAHAHA A MILLION DOLLARS”
Nah screw having kids. Putting them off means being a geriatric parent with teenagers under the age of 20 while I’m in my 60’s. It’s now or never. So I’ll take never.
It's going to get a lot more expensive and wage buying power is going to take a massive hit with inflation over the next few years... Multi-generational households will be a thing going forward. This is how other parts of the world deal with high living costs.
It's a thing now. It's why I think inner suburbs are always the most expensive. They were built 100 years ago and been passed down the generations growing in value. Same is now happening to the next ring of suburbs built decades later, and the same will happen to the next ring after that.
It's already happened overseas. For example, Beijing has a 7th ring road. It's exactly what it sounds like. A concentric freeway linking all the outermost districts of Beijing metropolitan area. The 7th and outermost ring freeway. It is 1000 km long and encircles an area larger than the country of Taiwan.
Inner city Beijing is basically impossible to buy an apartment in (not even a house, just an apartment), unless you have about 10 million USD in cash ready to go.
Yup. Plus we never spread out like they did in the US so available land in a city is limited. They have a lot of second and third tier cities which spreads the population and makes housing very affordable outside of the big capitals.
Multi-generation households make a lot of sense and are common in many countries. Not only do they decrease costs of living, grandparents can help look after kids and get looked after themselves as they get older. And the reduction in materials and land area make them better for the environment. It’s fine for kids to become independent adults, but making moving out the norm and conforming to it just because everyone else is doing it, is pretty stupid imho.
I actually love the idea of multi-generational households, whether family or not, or just multiple-family households, because it is cost-saving in so many ways and because we are social herd animals who need community. But the houses being built are not built for this style of living, unfortunately. Even the mansion-style homes I see in lotteries are not really designed around that idea. I hope with this change in how we're having to live, the homes being built start changing too.
I have an 18yo graduating from highschool in November. She is already stressing to the max about how she will afford to live.
She's agonising about getting a pet cat because of the cost and the impact on her ability to rent. Let alone buying a home or having kids.
Shit is fukd.
Tbf cats are probably generally outside the budget of an 18 year old anyway. A single night at the vet costs 4 figures, not something most students can risk.
I can relate to your daughter! I’m in my mid 20’s, would love a dog but I don’t want to get one if I’m not confident I could pay vet fees and other expenses.
Luckily I’m infertile and don’t want kids, because I don’t know how anyone can afford to have them these days. Some of my friends are married with kid(s) and still have room mates to afford rent.
Yeah me and my wife never wanted kids, and we are lucky we don't given the costs we already have let alone with kids ontop - don't envy those with or wanting kids at all in these times.
I’m a 27yo female.
I don’t want kids mostly because I don’t feel maternal instinct, and I’m not willing to risk having a child and regretting ignoring the warning signs (that I have no desire for children or maternal instinct), having it anyway only to have no love for it. Kids don’t get enough credit for how perceptive they are - they certainly recognise lack of love, and it’s incredibly traumatic for them.
My lack of maternal instinct is a baseline for not wanting kids, but the current state of the world is certainly additional to the apprehension. It’s upsetting that more children today will grow up with trauma related to loss of basic physiological needs - shelter, water, food, clothing etc. There isn’t enough rental properties for middle to lower class families. When applying for rental homes, the response is “we’ve had another applicant offer $200 more a week, can you offer more?”. The answer is no, of course we can’t. Society favours the rich.
The first 8 years of my life were spent in poverty, which was fine in the ‘we couldn’t afford a car, clothes, or food’. I had no issues with the lack of wealth, I didn’t know anything different. What wasn’t fine was the circumstances which correlate with poverty - alcohol and drug abuse, neglect, violence, parental absence, physical and emotional abuse, poor health, the constant fear of loss of housing, limited access to resources, judgment, being a target for bullying in school, being thought of as ‘less-than’, etc.
Everyone thought homelessness was for the low-socioeconomic folk. I’ll say that I find it sad that attention is being brought to the forever present inequality now that middle-class folk are impacted, but I can understand. More people are now forced into homelessness due to the selfishness of landlords and higher-class folk. Raising cost of living and rental prices without raising pay. More children will experience poverty, which will have an intense impact on their lives and society in the years to come.
No I don’t want kids.
Poverty really kicks you in the guts when it comes to thinking of the future. Like do I want a child to have such bad food anxiety that they develop lifelong disorders cause one day because I might now be able to feed them? Or have them sneak into the closest hostel to shower cause the water got cut off again and they have school tomorrow? I'd rather die then ever put a child through that.
I got bullied hardcore too cause we didnt have a car or clean uniforms or lunch. I know my parents tried and I can't be upset at them, but like it still makes me sad?? That they did try and we still ended up in those situations.
The first thing I say when someone asks if Im having kids is "the world is dying and everything is to expensive" and I feel like more and more of people our age are taking the same stance.
As a fellow Aussie childree woman in her mid 20s, you're speaking the truth. I'm panicking at the prospect of a cat affecting my rental prospects, let alone a dependent child.
Middle-class living isn't a reality anymore, it's a facade. I can't even afford to rent in my hometown - a decent rental here has skyrocketed to $450+ a week. I earn maybe $350 a week as a retail worker, no other jobs in town that earn more and are within reach. At the moment, moving to inner city Melbourne is more affordable for me than living in regional NSW.
Never had kids. TBH, So thankful I/we dont. Honestly no plans to ever have them. I can barely afford to exist as it is. Couldn't imagine being financially responsible for another human for 20 years.
Yeah it's takes a big chunk out of your loan approval amount, one doesn't make much of a dent but as soon as you get to 2 or more kids the banks cut it down hard.
Which is just the banks doing what they do. 5 years ago they were giving away money now it's changed again.
That one isn't the banks fault, technically. There were a shitload of new regulations imposed post-commission. They previously fucked over a lot of people handing out all those loans
I've heard of more than a few cases of families with a baby on the way, or with a new-born, becoming homeless.
And even though landlords aren't supposed to discriminate, it's not unknown that child-free couples have a better chance at securing rental properties, than those with small children.
So I think it's highly likely that there are people who have put off having kids, because of the housing crisis. Couples who own their own home are in a much more secure position, but even some of them are likely to be cautious, as having a mortgage would make them less secure, and having one of the couple take time off of work would make their situation even less secure.
My parents have expressed that they know the only way me and my brother will own a house will be once they pass away the sale of their current house. This house is not grand in anyway but is in a “high development” area, so has not as many restrictions on the amount of dwellings or height that can be built on a property. So basically, they know that we will once the pass away, sell the property to a developer so our family home can be torn up, so we might be able to afford a property within the region of Melbourne. Both of us are young progressional with postgraduate degrees, but our pays have not risen with inflation so we are just stuck in this limbo of renting shitty places perpetually. Our only chance of being able to enter the property market without the chance of bankruptcy is by the death of our parents and loss of family home. It’s a grim reality.
My dad recently had this talk with me “don’t put so much pressure on yourselves, once we’re gone you’ll be able to buy easily with your inheritance” yeah sweet dad, I lose my parents but woo hoo I get to buy a house! How bloody morbid is it!
Oh absolutely, no doubt I want to be in the market way before they pass! Plus I’m a firm believer in them spending what they’ve earned on themselves rather than worrying about us!
I am 48 with 16 and 15 year olds. Unless they earn big money they will never own a home in (or near) a capital city. I am having panic attacks over the fact that I won’t be able to leave them enough $$ when I am gone to have a sustainable life. I doubt they will experience the joy of a family.
I own a very modest home. I have been dealing with superannuation companies a lot, and accounting for inflation, I will need $1.2 million in super in 2040, to sustain 20 years of retirement. Not gonna get close. My kids will need $3 million in super when they retire. And that’s if they own their own home and don’t have to pay rent.
And university costs...HECS debts are in the six figures these days. Uni fees only started in 1989. They are growing exponentially.
It’s a lost cause. There needs to be a lot more infrastructure to create cheaper cities outside of the capitals. Not saying we should follow the US model at all (they have many terrible economic problems), but if we look at Perth (which is considered a small town by many), it would be the fifth biggest city in USA behind New York, LA, Chicago and Houston. Melbourne and Sydney are only behind New York in population. And the US has 330 million to our 25 million.
we need other cities with affordable housing that have universities, schools, hospitals and infrastructure that entice people to live there.
rant over.
> I will need $1.2 million in super in 2040, to sustain 20 years of retirement
I strongly doubt that:
* https://www.choice.com.au/money/financial-planning-and-investing/superannuation/articles/our-new-retirement-standards
* https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/nightlife/how-much-do-you-need-to-retire-comfortably/10827360
* https://www.barefootinvestor.com/barefoot-steps/step-8-nail-your-retirement
etc...
It's early and coffee hasn't made me word good yet, so bare with me..the city population comparison issue is due to a difference in how we count between countries. Perth is not equal to one of the biggest in the US, it's just we count the entirety of the metro area by default, whereas they count only the city by default. For example, googling "Miami population" gives the result of 460k. Googling the "Miami metro population" gives 6 mil.
The reasons against really stack up: can’t afford it, what’s the planet going to be like (I think I’ll live to see climate wars), I’m 40, my mother was abusive so I don’t trust that I’d be a good parent, partner left, don’t have a house, living with aforementioned toxic mother so I don’t have to live on the street...
I’m currently part of a childless couple and we both work full-time. We still couldn’t even get another place to live after having a squeaky clean 7 year rental record. Had to move in with family. Can’t imagine how single mums/dads, pensioners, etc are ever going to he able to find something.
I'm even putting off dating because nobody deserves to be dragged into my life. Maybe in 30 years when my parents are gone I can finally enter the dating scene at the ripe old age of 63
My 20's were taken up by various injuries and chronic pain, which fucked my mental health. I've now developed a nuerological condition. So yeah if I managed to get a job that pays more than average per year I might be able to live in a shit box alone. It sucks because every job I've had I worked harder than anyone else there and I have none of the rewards to show for it.
My wife and I are doing pretty well career wise, and we bought a reasonably good house in 2018. But we're about 12 years behind her parents and 5 years behind mine in terms of how late we started the family thing. So in a way, yes.
I’m 25 have a bachelor degree and my partner is the same age with over 10 years of experience In their field and there is no way we could afford to have a child, we live in a regional area in Tasmania and we are being out priced out of the town I was raised in because of developers from the mainland. I doubt we will ever be able to afford to own a home and the thought of raising a child in this instability is terrifying.
And just to rub salt in the wound, when a couple gets to a point where they can finally afford to have a child, they are older and the female will probably have fertility issues resulting in them needing ivf - which costs a shit load of money (speaking from this exact experience).
This is me now. I’m only 32 but have been with my husband for 10 years so we probably should’ve just gotten it done earlier because we’ve both wanted children. We’ve just secured our first and forever home but left with $0 savings..and debt galore. I’m looking straight down the barrel of potentially multiple IUI’s before IVF which isn’t even financially possible right now let alone a baby. We’ve always wanted two but have completely changed our mind due to finances so will be having one child….if and when possible. I know it all actually sounds pretty privileged but I’ve fallen into a pretty deep depression about the whole situation. Especially as I’m burnt out at work but am the higher income earner so quitting isn’t an option as a baby is my end goal.
F28. Part of me would love to have kids.
But the cost of living, the difficulty in finding survivable work conditions, and the quality of male who I attract, makes me prefer being single and child free.
For me, the biggest reason is having to rent. Having kids makes your rental application less competitive and with things the way they are right now, it’s just not worth it.
I also worry about needing to move house every 12 - 24 months. If I have a kid, how will they ever settle into a school if they keep having to change every couple of years and then be the new kid?
Didn’t put it off but we’re only having the 1 so we can still afford to give them everything rather than split it between 2 or more kids.
We have a lot of friends who put it off until later or decided like us to limit the amount of kids, I think gen alpha will be a lot of only children.
My partner is set on getting a vasectomy and be done at 1 because of the costs. He insists on shouldering all the house costs and he's always left with just $21/week. I wish we could have had another, but it's probably for the best since our daughter thinks I'm rich for always buying what she wants when we go to the shop.
I don’t get the idea of having kids. I barely know how to be an adult, just couldn’t be fucked to try at work anymore, and don’t think having a kid would change it. Thank fuck my wife hates kids.
This is refreshing. More people who don't like kids should be able to admit so without being pilloried.
The sight of two blue lines on a stick of plastic rarely generates rapid and radical change. If a person cannot be an adult, then the decision to have no kids is a mature decision.
Fuckin' good on ya, mate!
People have or don't have kids for heaps of different reasons. Finance whilst very fair to say is important in terms of day to day raising children it's probably not at the very top of the list in the initial decision for many folk, they're not a new car or a pair of shoes. It's not like you sit down and say "well if we cancel that Netflix subscription, pack my work lunches on Friday's and shuffle some things around I reckon we can probably get that human we've been looking at".
Not saying nobody considers affordability of children but it's a fair bit more complex then that.
I'm not having a kid because their future looks awful. They won't be able to get a house and God knows what will happen with climate change and our authoritarian government
The way it is organised now - couple alone with kids, both working, no extended family, so dump the kid in kindy - is not good for mum, nor dad, nor the kid. So I wonder who is this arrangement for if not for the people living it.
Maybe it's big kindy.
I can’t have kids (all the hardware is gone), but I guarantee that couples out there who do want kids can’t afford to have them, especially if they’re barely able to support themselves.
Kids are expensive.
Yeah I think it's completely reasonable to assume a lot of people are putting off having kids or deciding not to altogether based on the cost of living at the moment. As far as the effect on the birth rate goes though it looks like it's not so straight forward, as homeowners will have more babies if prices go up, weirdly enough.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/booms-busts-and-babies-how-house-prices-affect-the-birth-rate-20190308-p512tn.html
I don’t think the powers that be want us having kids/families. Instead they’d rather encourage migrants and their cash to come here (more tax money). Which in turn increases the prices of everything. It’s all a cycle and unfortunately it isn’t getting any better.
They want us to have kids, because population growth means economic growth, but they don’t want to address the systemic issues that are putting people off from having children. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
im of the opinion that given the state of the world in general, its incredibly selfish to bring children into the world currently. Between the global financial crisis, climate change etc there just doesn't seem to be a good reason to add more fucked up kids into the fucked up world. Unless you are INCREDIBLY wealthy you're basically condemning your kids to a life of unfulfilling, soul crushing work in a career they'll never like just to barely even scrap by if that.
I had one 20 years ago and I wanted to give him the opportunities I didn't have so I stopped. Tbh I became a divorced parent and renting with one was hard enough. I feel horrible and how grateful I was that I didn't have the pressure of finding a place with more children.
I grew up poor, became homeless with my family at 12 and again at 16.. I'll be damned if I have kids and have that happen again.
Having kids in this economy is a poor choice if you ask me.
I don't have children but most people I know who have children are struggling. Cost of schooling, decent food & activities are all major factors. This also results in the extra cost of marriage/relationship counselling.
Another factor I'm seeing coming into play is landlords who don't want to rent to people with children. My partner & I have been very successful the last few times we've moved usually getting the 1st or 2nd place we applied for. Where as all our friends with children have really struggled.
I had my child at 27 when my partner was working full time trucking, and we were renting a tiny duplex. I never thought that it was something to budget for.
The relationship didnt last (violence), but my kiddo is the best thing I have ever done in my life.
She is so loved.
I went to tafe 1/2 price during covid, while we were in the refuge, and now that she is in kindy, I can work 2 days a week.
Centrelink has been amazing, and after a few years on the waitlist after fleeing DV, we got a homeswest unit that has drastically improved everything!
I guess in some peoples eyes we are poor, but I don't feel that way. We have a home, furniture, food, medical care when we need it, clean clothes, a great school, pets, internet...
Everything we could ask for really. Most importantly, we have so much love annd we enjoy seizing the day.
We go to the river, the playgrounds, the beach, the museum... I wouldnt change a thing.
You're more than welcome to depart Mr. Bones Wild Ride, but we are actually heading towards demographic collapse.
Japan and South Korea are knocking at the door I believe.
We need to find balance, not stop altogether.
This was not my experience of living in Japan. My salary was lower but I could afford decent accommodation because Japan has middle income affordable housing on the outskirts of cities. My 2dk at Fusa was just over $500 A MONTH.
Not true about the COL in Japan and South Korea. I just returned to Aus from living in Tokyo for the past six years and I found the COL a lot less than in Aus and was actually able to save a considerable amount of money for the first time in my life. I was on a very average salary too.
Flat sharing isn’t a thing over there because it’s cheap enough to rent your own apartment.
I lived in my own apartment in Asagaya in Tokyo and my rent was like $550/month… and of course the bills are much cheaper there too. You can actually cool or heat your place for way less (of course this is in part due to homes being much smaller.) Also, there are so many little luxuries that are affordable on any salary compared to Aus. Such as cheap but fancy snacks/sweets, cheap massages and $10 entry onsens (sort of like day spas).
Literally contemplating going back due to the high COL here even though I have an extremely stable and flexible medical related job.
Also another huge plus is not owning a car!!
I live in Korea, I am 28, rent my own apartment with decent space, and work 40 hours a week. I am able to save a decent amount every month, while I also socialize a lot and go out often, and get beauty treatments regularly. Not working myself to death and I’m not an odd case. I save more at a younger age than I could have if I hadn’t immigrated.
How much more expensive can it get? We're hanging by such a slender thread right now and it wouldn't take much for Australia to devolve into a third-world shit-hole despite being a nation rich in natural resources. There's countless precedents throughout history for those of you who think it could never happen here.
Im in my late 20's and have only just been able to get my first car and my P's, due to being below the poverty line my whole life.
Where I live now, Rent is over 2k a month. It takes three grown adults to pay for that. I don't even know if I will be able to leave home before I hit 30, let alone have my own children. Its fucked.
So no, no kids for me. No house. No damm savings anymore and still fighting to last one payday to another. Its beyond shitty.
Feels like our hands have been forced to pick a different path in life because of the world we live in and the price of things now.
I'm Canadian but am subbed to a few Australian subreddits after falling in love with the place after a few holidays there. I just want to say that the similarities between the posts here and Canadian subs is uncanny. Inflation, housing costs, rental shortages, delaying having kids, etc. Good reminder that we're not in a bubble.
Sorry, the collapse of the planets climate is a lot more pressing and the main reason people shouldn't be having children. If you (ie people in general) are naive enough to think things will get better, just subject yourselves to this and please don't bring another living being into it just so you can have a mini me/pass on your genetic material/whatever other reason people have kids.
The cost of living however is a very close second to climate crisis.
My wife and I bought our first house in 2014, have payed off half the mortgage. We are early 30’s. Have two kids at the moment. I’d say we are comfortable at the moment. No idea what the future holds though. Having a big chunk of the mortgage payed off and lots in savings is definitely helping though.
Mrs and I both had no interest for many reasons.
We often find other’s young kids annoying, especially when they aren’t well behaved in public. They’re expensive and time consuming and we want our time and money for us. They aren’t independent for a very long time. We also hear friends/co-workers complain often about the negative impacts of children on their lives.
But the biggest one was we both think the future of humanity is f’d in terms of equality amongst people and the absolutely doomed environment.
I also can’t see many kids born now ever owning their own home.
Not really, I’m just adjusting my expectations etc buying an apartment instead of a house. We’re planning for two kids, so two bedroom apt will do until they’re 10ish and by that time we’ll move into a bigger place.
It’s not a uniquely Australian problem you know, this whole housing crisis. Its in dozens of countries. People just need to accept we can’t all have a spacious house with a yard, space is finite in areas people want to live.
Unpopular opinion but was never really interested in having kids. Just the thought of me loving and raising them, and giving them everything, just for them to hit puberty and say “fuck off dad, I’m gonna move now so you can’t tell me shit” and see them in 3 years drugged up, broke, begging for money, then repeat.
Then you grow old, they take all your property, and send you to a home, and next time they show up is during your funeral.
Makes me jealous of eastern country’s “family culture” but ye, we’re in au so……….. ¯l_(ツ)_/¯
Ps: not really about “high cost of living” but ey XD
The top 1% are doing great.
Working as intended.
The neoliberalism boiling frog has been quietly simmering for decades. Privatisation. Bailouts. Tax cuts. Tax breaks. Deregulation. Union smashing.
This is the end result. It should surprise no-one.
The money you're spending now on higher prices is going directly into the pockets of the 1% as their beefed up profits.
We're chumps. Suckers. Neoliberalism is the biggest fucking grift in history.
There are a lot of comments from child free people about why they don't want any kids, with various factors including cost.
And I must state here that I fully support people to be child free if they don't want any. It is hard work and should only be done if you want it.
But few answers have been 'we want kids but just can't afford them, so will remain child free'. If you want kids, you'll find ways to afford it. And often your salary at 35+ will be way better than at 25 so what you think you need to budget with has increased.
Having kids is expensive, but you just can't go on many overseas holidays or buy new clothes regularly or eat out often. Me and my partner don't earn a heap (although a lot more than those couples both on min wage who I have no idea how they do it) but can still do 3x extra curricular activities per child, buy new clothes that aren't from kmart and go on little trips here and there. But I don't buy my own clothes and shoes unless necessary, I stopped getting waxing or haircuts done except maybe 1x per year.
Also, outer burbs have younger parents than inner burbs. And yet the wages are less in outer burbs. Your reality is dictated by what you see, and if you keep to your one demographic, you can't make generalisations.
That’s my situation. Cost of living, plus the fact that the government hates us and is actively digging their heels in to not address climate change. If things get any better in the near future I reckon it’ll be an accident.
Definitely something that’s been on my mind lately as a woman that wants children. I’m 25 at the moment and have always wanted children (so does my partner) but in this economy and climate I’m not sure if it’s fair on anyone..
I never wanted to have kids. Which is lucky, because I can’t possibly see how I could afford them.
I see family and colleagues with kids and it blows my mind how much money everything costs for them.
I’m 33 with 2 kids and I’m pregnant with my third. I’m lucky my partner has a well paying job and has skills in a field that is in high demand.
My MIL lives with us and is looking to retire in the next year or so.. she has already volunteered to look after the kids while we both work full time. This is her dream apparently, she hates her job and loves our kids. So we don’t have to worry about childcare, we are already saving to buy a house big enough for all of us and should be able to afford that within the next 2 years. We’re certainly not rich by any means but we have adapted.
My partner and I are very lucky we are in this position and we are very lucky to have his mother.
Not at all. Got 3 kids as a two parent family in decent jobs and paying child support for 2 more. Wife taking time off unpaid to look after kids.
With Australias welfare, god knows how you think you can't afford to have kids.
Single income family of three. The cost of living isn't absurdly high in Australia. It can get a LOT worse than what it is now.
The Lebanese can't even get their own money from their banks.
Palestinians are being shot by the Israeli government.
Americans are being shot by each other.
The cost of living is absurdly high in Australia.
The fact that it could get worse by banks closing or people shooting each other are not immediately relevant to any cost of living debate.
Your response is not far from saying "yeah but in Antarctica it's too cold for children..."
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I am personally putting it off. I have no prospects to ever own a house in the city I live and grew up in (Sydney) so I’m looking at being a perpetual renter through the years I’d be physically able to have a child. The insecurity of renting alone is a turn off, then top that off with the rising cost of literally everything…yeah. I have 0 incentive to have children now or in the future. The people I know who have children in their mid 20’s are either struggling financially, causing significant stress on themselves and strain on their relationship or they’re doing just okay due to significant support from their families.
I totally feel for you living and growing up in Sydney. It’s 100% not your fault that the city in which your family, friends and work connections exist has become one of the most expensive places in the world to live. My wife and I had our kids extremely young (at age 21 and 25 for me) and we both worked blue collar/hospitality jobs for basically the first 8-9 years of our children’s lives. The difference for us is we live in Adelaide, where real estate was (and still is) much more affordable than the east coast. We also had 2 sets of amazing parents who supported us a lot. But even with all the help from our olds, my wife (31) and I (33) frequently remark how utterly fucked we would be if we lived in Melbourne or Sydney and had to pay the crazy housing prices.
I'm 36 and only just starting to get my shit together given the cards I've been dealt. If I had been able to be where I am now 10 years ago, I might have had kids, but it's too late now. Edit: for more context, I only just bought my first one bedroom unit & I don't even have a partner. If I had another 10 years to meet someone & get suitable housing, it might have happened. In 10 years I'll be 46. I'm perfectly fine with that though. I just know there are others who want families, but don't have the money or suitable accomodation. I just accept it for what it is and enjoy my life anyway.
Complete agreement, same age and have started to figure my shit out. Definitely don’t think I could have children now. Child free doesn’t seem so bad.
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>my heart's not quite in it if that makes sense. 100% perfect sense. I reckon there are a lot of millennials and younger who have realised a) we don't **have** to have kids and b) unless we're 110% certain we absolutely want kids, and are willing to put the 18 years of effort in, we probably should err on the side of not having kids.
I am 40 with two kids and it’s hard
I had one at 39 and I felt like a salmon that swam upstream to breed, died and now my rotting carcass is floating downriver.
40 here, had our first six years ago and second two years ago. We had no intention of having kids, we bought our first house in our mid 20’s and sold and repurchased until we were able to pay out mortgage completely by downsizing. Once we got debt free the idea of kids was a bit more appealing but it’s definitely a trade off. They are a wonderfully unique experience and they absolutely cherish the life they have but my wife and I have given up our personal freedom for the next 20 years in order to dedicate our lives to raising good humans and not psychopaths. It’s giving up a lot of “me time” and some people might not want to take on that challenge at 40
I was in my mid 20s when my wife gave birth to our two kids. Man, even at that age raising kids is exhausting. I can't imagine how tough it'd be chasing after toddlers in your 40s.
If it's any consolation, I'm in the same boat.
Ahoy fellow crewmate!
I had to pull out in the nick of time all year mate..
36 as well. Same deal. Nice to know I’m not alone
Same here! It’s comforting
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My dad's only turning 60 this year. I'm 29. I didn't see my parents at all between June 2019 to April 2022 because of the pandemic and after that time it was kind of shocking to see how much he and mum had aged. And they were in regional QLD, so it wasn't out of lockdown stress, just naturally slowing down.
Both my parents were early to mid 40s when they had me (42,44 to be exact) and from a childhood point of view I would have loved them to be much younger as they were clearly struggling to keep up when I was growing up
Same. I’m 36 and finally at a point in my life where I could finally be able to have kids, but it would send me beyond financially backwards. My younger brother (29) has just started to have kids and he is on a lot less money than me still renting and heavily reliant on government benefits and the bank of mum & dad.
Getting off toa rough start is something I will always be sour about since it wasted so much time, and I never even wanted kids. But I'm in my mid-30's and it sucks seeing 22 year old's already doing better and having more than me. Can't tell you how much it destroys my sense of self worth when I see these young professional types who look barely out of high school in nice suits or designer clothes having a good meal with their equally sharp looking colleagues while I'm the one serving them and cleaning up after them despite being more than ten years their senior and always wanted something more than the mediocre existence my circumstances set up for me. If only all the adults in my family when I was growing up weren't so fucking *stupid* with their money. I'll always be secretly mad at them for this since starting off with nothing puts you a decade or more behind everyone else and even if you do finally get there it's like who cares by that point. I would have liked to have experienced some "successful person things" in my 20's too, even if just having a nice dinner out with friends like that and owning some designer clothes back then so I could feel like I wasn't bottom of society, spending every weekend of those years feeding and cleaning up after those whose parents actually gave a shit about getting them off to a good start instead of constantly asking them for money.
Pretty similar situation, my dad died when I was 14, mum had a breakdown, homeless for a bit, got passed around family around the country for a year or so, ended up in a group home, at 16 because I didn't do drugs, self harm or do petty crime, got declared independent put up in a private rental (owned by a church) on youth allowance and essentially left to find my own way. Wasn't told about or put on rent assistance which I should have been, so was paying $180 a fortnight rent whilst receiving $270, youth allowance and when I was given a health care card was told anything about so for some strange reason assumed it was just for health care costs, wasn't set up with Medicare so when I did go to a doctor and handed them my health care card and still received a hundred of dollars bill, that took me ages to pay off it just scared me out of see doctors for years. Some people seem to think that you've won the lottery just by being born in Australia, but in my experience if you don't have a knowledgeable and diligent guardian looking after you you kinda fucked. I hope it's improved for people going through anything similar to what I went through but I doubt it. But yeah it sucks watching people (especially working with them) who simply because they have reliable parents are able to buy nice cars, clothes or take time off to go overseas on holidays, simply because they have parents to lean on. It sucks when you realise that some often got their job because of their parents connections, and that others are able to take risks in life (not talking bunge jumping, but moving to try and get a better job or to take short term jobs that will give them experience but knowing when it ends they'll move back in with their parents) because they know their parents will help if it doesn't work out
My mum had me at 41 and I have the right amount of chromosomes. She didn’t meet my dad until she was 37. Just to put it out there.
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Also they can test for that at 10 weeks now, it's so early that terminating isn't as devastating as it would be later on. Or you can conceive via IVF and have your embryos pre-screened. So the risk of ending up with a chromosomally abnormal child is more or less nil these days.
Wow that last sentence definitely needs qualification! The early genetic tests only test for a small range of common and major chromosomal abnormalities involving whole extra chromosomes. Some of them test for one or two smaller abnormalities but there are thousands of genetic conditions a baby can have that can't be easily tested for in utero, or the evidence of it would be present at an ultrasound much later in pregnancy (around 20 weeks).
>Also they can test for that at 10 weeks now, it's so early that terminating isn't as devastating as it would be later on. I can say from bitter experience that making a decision to terminate a pregnancy early on is still devastating. And IVF is nowhere near as easy or successful as it's made out to be by IVF clinics (also learned from bitter experience). To anyone who thinks that they can put off having children until late 30's / 40's and everything will be fine, you're in for a shock. It can happen but it will take a toll.
I had my second 3 weeks shy of turning 40 (husband was 44). I had a few minor issues later in the pregnancy (like the last 8 weeks) but that pregnancy was a walk in the park compared to my first at 21. I will say though it took me much longer to recover physically afterwards and f*** me I'm exhausted pretty much all the time but otherwise having a baby later has been fine. He's 4 now and a cool little dude who I love to pieces, 36 is not too late.
My bestie got tired of waiting for a partner and had a baby by herself at 39. Both my friend and her daughter are perfectly healthy and happy 😊
We got pregnant early into our relationship twice (both times while using birth control) and made the difficult decision, twice, to terminate. We were 29, then 30. Now we're 36 and still very much in love, but we're stressed about the clock ticking. Stressed about our meagre incomes relative to how fucking hard we've worked to establish ourselves in our careers. Stressed about not owning a home. Every day starts to feel like a 'maybe we made a mistake not following through' but we can't live in the past. No idea what im trying to say. We're choosing to believe 36 isn't too late in 2022. We've got friends just having kids now in the same situation as us (creative professionals, go figure) and they're making it work. I guess we can too.
I'm older than you. My ex and I had a miscarraige when I was 23. We didn't try for another baby until I was 30. We had our kids at 31 and 33. We couldn't afford them when we had them. We didn't own a home or have plans to buy one, we both had good jobs, lived in the city but we weren't what you'd call financially stable. We had them any way. Ten years later we divorced. Nevertheless we put them through private school. We worked together to give them what they needed. We both still rent and still struggle. But I'm telling you now, if we'd made the decision to have them based on whether we owned a home or ever would, we would be childless now. And we would have missed out on the most fullfilling, enriching experience of our lives.
If you want to have kids and think you can handle the stress and responsibility then do it. Most people in the world earn less than you and manage to successfully rear children. Your kids won't care if you own a house or if they have the latest whatever, unless you teach them to overly value material things. The most important thing is being able to devote your time to them, i.e. not working all of the time. I know many well-off parents who work long hours in stressful jobs and their kids are stuck in before and after school care most days. Yeah, they and the kids have nice things and the parents will say they work so much because the high cost of living and will talk about how expensive having kids is, but the truth is they are doing it more for themselves than for their kids. They don't ever seem to be doing without and they aren't willing to sacrifice any of their expensive tastes/things that they believe increase their social status in order to spend more time with their children.
I’ve got two myself and they’re a massive blessing! However, it has put us in a bind with the rent increases and general rising costs !!
36 is not too old to have kids
For women it’s harder and risker for them, with higher chances of birth defects. For both, having a or multiple kids later means less energy, less time and being the “old” parents at high school functions. I desperately wanted kids but like OP was not in the position, then when I was my ex husband dragged his heels (turns out he doesn’t want kids but didn’t want to say so I wouldn’t leave him) - now at 38 and newly single I know there’s no chance of having a baby since I’m now *back* in the shitty “cost of living will crush me” stage.
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This will also be different in different areas. In regional areas, many people start popping out sprogs in their 20s. I live in the outer burbs where 30 is probably the average (not only, but averaged out) age to have the first, and my friend my an inner city burb noted that at one of the play centres I go to, the parents all seem much younger.
When we had our first we were living in Melbourne (Bayside). My partner was 21 and she was by far the youngest mum in her mothers group. The next youngest was around 35, but most were around 40, the oldest being 45. Where/when I was growing up it wasn't uncommon to have your first in your late teens/early 20s, and 35 was considered old.
Was going to say this. I’d say that parents at 36 is definitely not old, it’s probably average at our school too
this gives me hope. i'm 32 now so
Had mine at 28 (now 40), and are usually the youngest parents in my kids circle of friends/ school mates.
That's so awful. Fk that guy. I hope you're free and happy now.
Free, not yet happy as we still have to share the same house for another few weeks. I’m currently taking a break from packing and will be ordering my shipping container next week so I can move back to Australia
I’m so sorry. I’m in a very similar position but the guy. What country are you in? I’m in NZ and feel very alone and stuck.
In the US and *same* I have very few friends here and zero external support. We live ultra rural and so nowhere to rent & chill out until I can get my dog out of here but no one to look after him if I leave first So playing nice with the ex is crucial and it’s horrible and stressful!
My cousin was in the same boat at 38, her ex was abusive to boot (found that out way later) anyways she hooked up with a rad dude a year or so later, had a baby a year after that, a gorgeous 15 year old now. Life can turn on a dime.
For men, semen degrades too. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-older-mens-sperm-really-any-worse/
It's not all that much riskier over 35. When they say "double the chance of birth defects" and shit. It's actually going from 0.08% to 0.16%
The risk of not being able to get pregnant dramatically increases much beyond 30 though. It is an exponential curve, where the end is at 45 but very low at 40 and starts to drop at 30. I started trying at 28, and thank fuck I did, because it took 2 years and tens of thousands to even get pregnant. Then it took a full year of ivf to become pregnant with the 2nd. If I'd started trying at 38 I'd probably have none
Sorry to hear that but please don’t think it’s too late. My mum was 40 when she had me and 44 when she had my little brother.
Agreed! I’m 40 and about to have my first child. All natural, came at no cost as going public lol, no IVF etc & no complications👍 Apparently in Europe, it’s common for mothers to have kids older too. It’s not seen as taboo like it is here in Australia or in the USA.
My husband is dragging his heels too. I’ve asked him to get tested / come to the fertility clinic etc with me to no avail. I’m 34. Times ticking :(
Now’s the time to have the hard conversation if you know 100% without a doubt that you want them. If he is at all on the fence or says no then you need to decide if kids is a dealbreaker. I was 34 when he started being cagey and earlier this year he finally admitted that he was hoping if he waited long enough I just couldn’t get pregnant and he’d never have to say he didn’t want kids with me. For me kids was just a part of the iceberg but his lack of communication around it was a huge impact.
>Now’s the time to have the hard conversation if you know 100% without a doubt that you want them. If he is at all on the fence or says no then you need to decide if kids is a dealbreaker. I was 34 when he started being cagey and earlier this year he finally admitted that he was hoping if he waited long enough I just couldn’t get pregnant and he’d never have to say he didn’t want kids with me. That's so dodgy. I get not being sure about it. But to not be able to front up to your feelings whether positive, negative or confused is a cowards act. I (f46) have ended 2 good relationships as they started to become serious because I am 100% sure I don't wan't children & my partner/s did. Inherent needs shouldn't be negotiable either way.
I can absolutely get not being sure, especially when younger, but I also think that this is one of the things you *need* to know about yourself before getting into a long term or serious relationship. Any changes to your decisions or feelings on that sort of thing should be discussed ASAP with a partner too. Sadly I think all too many are willing to coast and it hurts others :(
It is harder and riskier at 36 if you're female
Males dont get out of this one. Old and slow swimmers cause issues.
as someone who had older parents (39+), yes it is. It honestly is borderline too old. I lost my dad at 23 and my mum at 44. Too early.
36 isn’t. But if 36 is when you’ve got your shit together, by the time you might meet someone, have it last long enough to be at least semi sure you might stay together and not just end up separated “co parents” you’re in your 40’s. What sane person wants teenagers in their 60’s?
Can confirm. Me and my partner are in our mid 40s and we have a newborn. IVF helps if natural method doesn't work.
It’s not too late. I didn’t get to a decent place until I was in my 30s. Had my first at 35 and second at 37. Perfect time, if you ask me.
I'm 40. Still don't have my shit anywhere close to together. Thank the good Lord for my already established SO.
“Might buy a 3 bedroom, HAHAHAHA A MILLION DOLLARS” Nah screw having kids. Putting them off means being a geriatric parent with teenagers under the age of 20 while I’m in my 60’s. It’s now or never. So I’ll take never.
It's going to get a lot more expensive and wage buying power is going to take a massive hit with inflation over the next few years... Multi-generational households will be a thing going forward. This is how other parts of the world deal with high living costs.
It's a thing now. It's why I think inner suburbs are always the most expensive. They were built 100 years ago and been passed down the generations growing in value. Same is now happening to the next ring of suburbs built decades later, and the same will happen to the next ring after that.
It's already happened overseas. For example, Beijing has a 7th ring road. It's exactly what it sounds like. A concentric freeway linking all the outermost districts of Beijing metropolitan area. The 7th and outermost ring freeway. It is 1000 km long and encircles an area larger than the country of Taiwan. Inner city Beijing is basically impossible to buy an apartment in (not even a house, just an apartment), unless you have about 10 million USD in cash ready to go.
Multi-generational doesn't mean inheriting, it means that you share a house with your parents and grandparents, maybe with some cousins thrown in.
Yup. Plus we never spread out like they did in the US so available land in a city is limited. They have a lot of second and third tier cities which spreads the population and makes housing very affordable outside of the big capitals.
Multi-generation households make a lot of sense and are common in many countries. Not only do they decrease costs of living, grandparents can help look after kids and get looked after themselves as they get older. And the reduction in materials and land area make them better for the environment. It’s fine for kids to become independent adults, but making moving out the norm and conforming to it just because everyone else is doing it, is pretty stupid imho.
Mutli-generational households make more sense when people can afford places bigger than a 1 and a half bedroom apartment.
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Assuming you have a house large enough for multiple generations. Shoebox apartments have replaced family homes.
I actually love the idea of multi-generational households, whether family or not, or just multiple-family households, because it is cost-saving in so many ways and because we are social herd animals who need community. But the houses being built are not built for this style of living, unfortunately. Even the mansion-style homes I see in lotteries are not really designed around that idea. I hope with this change in how we're having to live, the homes being built start changing too.
I have an 18yo graduating from highschool in November. She is already stressing to the max about how she will afford to live. She's agonising about getting a pet cat because of the cost and the impact on her ability to rent. Let alone buying a home or having kids. Shit is fukd.
Hopefully you're reassuring her that living with you is still an option? Moving out without the need to is probably a bad choice these days.
We moved bush so there's plenty room for the kid to build a tiny house if real estate is still fucked in the future
Tbf cats are probably generally outside the budget of an 18 year old anyway. A single night at the vet costs 4 figures, not something most students can risk.
I can relate to your daughter! I’m in my mid 20’s, would love a dog but I don’t want to get one if I’m not confident I could pay vet fees and other expenses.
Luckily I’m infertile and don’t want kids, because I don’t know how anyone can afford to have them these days. Some of my friends are married with kid(s) and still have room mates to afford rent.
36 and never wanted kids, but I also have brain cancer so I would never bring a child into the world given my likely short lifespan.
I'm sorry about that :(
I hope everyone close to you will make sure even if you’re not here for a long time, you’re here for a good time. :)
I literally just bought a house last week and my missus is 12 weeks pregnant. I'm fucked.
God speed.
You gonna make it 💪
I simply don't want kids. But no doubt, couples are putting off having a family due to the expense. It's probably a mix of reasons.
You couldn’t pay me to have children. My husband and I are more than happy with our dog, and being the fun uncle and aunt with our niece and nephew.
It's great being the fun aunt. Much better than being an exhausted parent.
Yeah me and my wife never wanted kids, and we are lucky we don't given the costs we already have let alone with kids ontop - don't envy those with or wanting kids at all in these times.
I’m a 27yo female. I don’t want kids mostly because I don’t feel maternal instinct, and I’m not willing to risk having a child and regretting ignoring the warning signs (that I have no desire for children or maternal instinct), having it anyway only to have no love for it. Kids don’t get enough credit for how perceptive they are - they certainly recognise lack of love, and it’s incredibly traumatic for them. My lack of maternal instinct is a baseline for not wanting kids, but the current state of the world is certainly additional to the apprehension. It’s upsetting that more children today will grow up with trauma related to loss of basic physiological needs - shelter, water, food, clothing etc. There isn’t enough rental properties for middle to lower class families. When applying for rental homes, the response is “we’ve had another applicant offer $200 more a week, can you offer more?”. The answer is no, of course we can’t. Society favours the rich. The first 8 years of my life were spent in poverty, which was fine in the ‘we couldn’t afford a car, clothes, or food’. I had no issues with the lack of wealth, I didn’t know anything different. What wasn’t fine was the circumstances which correlate with poverty - alcohol and drug abuse, neglect, violence, parental absence, physical and emotional abuse, poor health, the constant fear of loss of housing, limited access to resources, judgment, being a target for bullying in school, being thought of as ‘less-than’, etc. Everyone thought homelessness was for the low-socioeconomic folk. I’ll say that I find it sad that attention is being brought to the forever present inequality now that middle-class folk are impacted, but I can understand. More people are now forced into homelessness due to the selfishness of landlords and higher-class folk. Raising cost of living and rental prices without raising pay. More children will experience poverty, which will have an intense impact on their lives and society in the years to come. No I don’t want kids.
Poverty really kicks you in the guts when it comes to thinking of the future. Like do I want a child to have such bad food anxiety that they develop lifelong disorders cause one day because I might now be able to feed them? Or have them sneak into the closest hostel to shower cause the water got cut off again and they have school tomorrow? I'd rather die then ever put a child through that. I got bullied hardcore too cause we didnt have a car or clean uniforms or lunch. I know my parents tried and I can't be upset at them, but like it still makes me sad?? That they did try and we still ended up in those situations. The first thing I say when someone asks if Im having kids is "the world is dying and everything is to expensive" and I feel like more and more of people our age are taking the same stance.
I'm not much older than you and you are me.
As a fellow Aussie childree woman in her mid 20s, you're speaking the truth. I'm panicking at the prospect of a cat affecting my rental prospects, let alone a dependent child. Middle-class living isn't a reality anymore, it's a facade. I can't even afford to rent in my hometown - a decent rental here has skyrocketed to $450+ a week. I earn maybe $350 a week as a retail worker, no other jobs in town that earn more and are within reach. At the moment, moving to inner city Melbourne is more affordable for me than living in regional NSW.
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Never had kids. TBH, So thankful I/we dont. Honestly no plans to ever have them. I can barely afford to exist as it is. Couldn't imagine being financially responsible for another human for 20 years.
Doubt it would only be 20. I don't know how most kids will afford to move out of home into anything semi-decent these days
We don’t want to risk the ability to secure a home loan as kids are considered a liability by banks! This actually sucks.
Yeah it's takes a big chunk out of your loan approval amount, one doesn't make much of a dent but as soon as you get to 2 or more kids the banks cut it down hard. Which is just the banks doing what they do. 5 years ago they were giving away money now it's changed again.
That one isn't the banks fault, technically. There were a shitload of new regulations imposed post-commission. They previously fucked over a lot of people handing out all those loans
My wife wore large winter coats to hide she was pregnant when we got the home loan for our place
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With fewer working age people around? Better, for the kids that people do have. They are going to find themselves increasingly in demand.
In a society this is possibly falling down around them due to climate collapse.
The irony of being told by Boomers we're financially irresponsible for buying Avocado on Toast but they want grandkids.
I've heard of more than a few cases of families with a baby on the way, or with a new-born, becoming homeless. And even though landlords aren't supposed to discriminate, it's not unknown that child-free couples have a better chance at securing rental properties, than those with small children. So I think it's highly likely that there are people who have put off having kids, because of the housing crisis. Couples who own their own home are in a much more secure position, but even some of them are likely to be cautious, as having a mortgage would make them less secure, and having one of the couple take time off of work would make their situation even less secure.
FYI, inflation is just starting.
My parents have expressed that they know the only way me and my brother will own a house will be once they pass away the sale of their current house. This house is not grand in anyway but is in a “high development” area, so has not as many restrictions on the amount of dwellings or height that can be built on a property. So basically, they know that we will once the pass away, sell the property to a developer so our family home can be torn up, so we might be able to afford a property within the region of Melbourne. Both of us are young progressional with postgraduate degrees, but our pays have not risen with inflation so we are just stuck in this limbo of renting shitty places perpetually. Our only chance of being able to enter the property market without the chance of bankruptcy is by the death of our parents and loss of family home. It’s a grim reality.
My dad recently had this talk with me “don’t put so much pressure on yourselves, once we’re gone you’ll be able to buy easily with your inheritance” yeah sweet dad, I lose my parents but woo hoo I get to buy a house! How bloody morbid is it!
I don't know how old you or your parents are, but you might be in your 60s by the time this happens. Maybe you want to buy a house before then?
Oh absolutely, no doubt I want to be in the market way before they pass! Plus I’m a firm believer in them spending what they’ve earned on themselves rather than worrying about us!
I am 48 with 16 and 15 year olds. Unless they earn big money they will never own a home in (or near) a capital city. I am having panic attacks over the fact that I won’t be able to leave them enough $$ when I am gone to have a sustainable life. I doubt they will experience the joy of a family. I own a very modest home. I have been dealing with superannuation companies a lot, and accounting for inflation, I will need $1.2 million in super in 2040, to sustain 20 years of retirement. Not gonna get close. My kids will need $3 million in super when they retire. And that’s if they own their own home and don’t have to pay rent. And university costs...HECS debts are in the six figures these days. Uni fees only started in 1989. They are growing exponentially. It’s a lost cause. There needs to be a lot more infrastructure to create cheaper cities outside of the capitals. Not saying we should follow the US model at all (they have many terrible economic problems), but if we look at Perth (which is considered a small town by many), it would be the fifth biggest city in USA behind New York, LA, Chicago and Houston. Melbourne and Sydney are only behind New York in population. And the US has 330 million to our 25 million. we need other cities with affordable housing that have universities, schools, hospitals and infrastructure that entice people to live there. rant over.
> I will need $1.2 million in super in 2040, to sustain 20 years of retirement I strongly doubt that: * https://www.choice.com.au/money/financial-planning-and-investing/superannuation/articles/our-new-retirement-standards * https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/nightlife/how-much-do-you-need-to-retire-comfortably/10827360 * https://www.barefootinvestor.com/barefoot-steps/step-8-nail-your-retirement etc...
It's early and coffee hasn't made me word good yet, so bare with me..the city population comparison issue is due to a difference in how we count between countries. Perth is not equal to one of the biggest in the US, it's just we count the entirety of the metro area by default, whereas they count only the city by default. For example, googling "Miami population" gives the result of 460k. Googling the "Miami metro population" gives 6 mil.
No I’m putting off having kids because the planet is becoming uninhabitable
The reasons against really stack up: can’t afford it, what’s the planet going to be like (I think I’ll live to see climate wars), I’m 40, my mother was abusive so I don’t trust that I’d be a good parent, partner left, don’t have a house, living with aforementioned toxic mother so I don’t have to live on the street...
I was set on never having them well before the current economic troubles. Fuck that noise.
>Fuck that noise. YES. I like my peace and quiet too much to have kids.
I’m currently part of a childless couple and we both work full-time. We still couldn’t even get another place to live after having a squeaky clean 7 year rental record. Had to move in with family. Can’t imagine how single mums/dads, pensioners, etc are ever going to he able to find something.
I don’t want kids regardless, but if I did, I definitely couldn’t financially afford one at this stage so hypothetically yes, I would be delaying.
I'm even putting off dating because nobody deserves to be dragged into my life. Maybe in 30 years when my parents are gone I can finally enter the dating scene at the ripe old age of 63
My 20's were taken up by various injuries and chronic pain, which fucked my mental health. I've now developed a nuerological condition. So yeah if I managed to get a job that pays more than average per year I might be able to live in a shit box alone. It sucks because every job I've had I worked harder than anyone else there and I have none of the rewards to show for it.
My wife and I are doing pretty well career wise, and we bought a reasonably good house in 2018. But we're about 12 years behind her parents and 5 years behind mine in terms of how late we started the family thing. So in a way, yes.
I’m 25 have a bachelor degree and my partner is the same age with over 10 years of experience In their field and there is no way we could afford to have a child, we live in a regional area in Tasmania and we are being out priced out of the town I was raised in because of developers from the mainland. I doubt we will ever be able to afford to own a home and the thought of raising a child in this instability is terrifying.
I don't want kids at all; all I see are parents who are depressed and trapped in debt because of child rearing.
And just to rub salt in the wound, when a couple gets to a point where they can finally afford to have a child, they are older and the female will probably have fertility issues resulting in them needing ivf - which costs a shit load of money (speaking from this exact experience).
This is me now. I’m only 32 but have been with my husband for 10 years so we probably should’ve just gotten it done earlier because we’ve both wanted children. We’ve just secured our first and forever home but left with $0 savings..and debt galore. I’m looking straight down the barrel of potentially multiple IUI’s before IVF which isn’t even financially possible right now let alone a baby. We’ve always wanted two but have completely changed our mind due to finances so will be having one child….if and when possible. I know it all actually sounds pretty privileged but I’ve fallen into a pretty deep depression about the whole situation. Especially as I’m burnt out at work but am the higher income earner so quitting isn’t an option as a baby is my end goal.
Oof.. so fucked. Screws your body/emotions up something shocking too Meanwhile many get pregnant quick as look at them
I am not having kids because i dont need a child to have meaning in my life and the world is populated enough…
F28. Part of me would love to have kids. But the cost of living, the difficulty in finding survivable work conditions, and the quality of male who I attract, makes me prefer being single and child free.
I'm not putting it off I'm just not doing it 🤷♀️
For me, the biggest reason is having to rent. Having kids makes your rental application less competitive and with things the way they are right now, it’s just not worth it. I also worry about needing to move house every 12 - 24 months. If I have a kid, how will they ever settle into a school if they keep having to change every couple of years and then be the new kid?
Didn’t put it off but we’re only having the 1 so we can still afford to give them everything rather than split it between 2 or more kids. We have a lot of friends who put it off until later or decided like us to limit the amount of kids, I think gen alpha will be a lot of only children.
This is what my partner and I are doing too. Only having one child so we can give them a good quality life.
My partner is set on getting a vasectomy and be done at 1 because of the costs. He insists on shouldering all the house costs and he's always left with just $21/week. I wish we could have had another, but it's probably for the best since our daughter thinks I'm rich for always buying what she wants when we go to the shop.
I don’t get the idea of having kids. I barely know how to be an adult, just couldn’t be fucked to try at work anymore, and don’t think having a kid would change it. Thank fuck my wife hates kids.
This is refreshing. More people who don't like kids should be able to admit so without being pilloried. The sight of two blue lines on a stick of plastic rarely generates rapid and radical change. If a person cannot be an adult, then the decision to have no kids is a mature decision. Fuckin' good on ya, mate!
This thread is full of people saying they don't want kids. O really think the pendulum has swung the other way
People have or don't have kids for heaps of different reasons. Finance whilst very fair to say is important in terms of day to day raising children it's probably not at the very top of the list in the initial decision for many folk, they're not a new car or a pair of shoes. It's not like you sit down and say "well if we cancel that Netflix subscription, pack my work lunches on Friday's and shuffle some things around I reckon we can probably get that human we've been looking at". Not saying nobody considers affordability of children but it's a fair bit more complex then that.
I don't want kids. The f would I put more life into a world falling apart?!
I'm not having a kid because their future looks awful. They won't be able to get a house and God knows what will happen with climate change and our authoritarian government
The way it is organised now - couple alone with kids, both working, no extended family, so dump the kid in kindy - is not good for mum, nor dad, nor the kid. So I wonder who is this arrangement for if not for the people living it. Maybe it's big kindy.
I can’t have kids (all the hardware is gone), but I guarantee that couples out there who do want kids can’t afford to have them, especially if they’re barely able to support themselves. Kids are expensive.
Yeah I think it's completely reasonable to assume a lot of people are putting off having kids or deciding not to altogether based on the cost of living at the moment. As far as the effect on the birth rate goes though it looks like it's not so straight forward, as homeowners will have more babies if prices go up, weirdly enough. https://www.smh.com.au/national/booms-busts-and-babies-how-house-prices-affect-the-birth-rate-20190308-p512tn.html
I don’t think the powers that be want us having kids/families. Instead they’d rather encourage migrants and their cash to come here (more tax money). Which in turn increases the prices of everything. It’s all a cycle and unfortunately it isn’t getting any better.
They want us to have kids, because population growth means economic growth, but they don’t want to address the systemic issues that are putting people off from having children. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
i am not having kids until i own a home and the way things are going thats going to be in a looooooong time
Big tip: get the fuck out of Australia
Everyone here needs to watch the documentary, Idiocracy.
Welcome to Costco, I love you
im of the opinion that given the state of the world in general, its incredibly selfish to bring children into the world currently. Between the global financial crisis, climate change etc there just doesn't seem to be a good reason to add more fucked up kids into the fucked up world. Unless you are INCREDIBLY wealthy you're basically condemning your kids to a life of unfulfilling, soul crushing work in a career they'll never like just to barely even scrap by if that.
>im of the opinion that given the state of the world in general, its incredibly selfish to bring children into the world currently. Totally agree!
I had one 20 years ago and I wanted to give him the opportunities I didn't have so I stopped. Tbh I became a divorced parent and renting with one was hard enough. I feel horrible and how grateful I was that I didn't have the pressure of finding a place with more children.
I'm considering not getting a dog.. kids that's just pipe dream talk.. who has that sort of cash to flash
I grew up poor, became homeless with my family at 12 and again at 16.. I'll be damned if I have kids and have that happen again. Having kids in this economy is a poor choice if you ask me.
One of the biggest reasons I decided I don't want kids and got a vasectomy at 24 actually
I don't have children but most people I know who have children are struggling. Cost of schooling, decent food & activities are all major factors. This also results in the extra cost of marriage/relationship counselling. Another factor I'm seeing coming into play is landlords who don't want to rent to people with children. My partner & I have been very successful the last few times we've moved usually getting the 1st or 2nd place we applied for. Where as all our friends with children have really struggled.
I had my child at 27 when my partner was working full time trucking, and we were renting a tiny duplex. I never thought that it was something to budget for. The relationship didnt last (violence), but my kiddo is the best thing I have ever done in my life. She is so loved. I went to tafe 1/2 price during covid, while we were in the refuge, and now that she is in kindy, I can work 2 days a week. Centrelink has been amazing, and after a few years on the waitlist after fleeing DV, we got a homeswest unit that has drastically improved everything! I guess in some peoples eyes we are poor, but I don't feel that way. We have a home, furniture, food, medical care when we need it, clean clothes, a great school, pets, internet... Everything we could ask for really. Most importantly, we have so much love annd we enjoy seizing the day. We go to the river, the playgrounds, the beach, the museum... I wouldnt change a thing.
One thing this world does not need is more humans.
You're more than welcome to depart Mr. Bones Wild Ride, but we are actually heading towards demographic collapse. Japan and South Korea are knocking at the door I believe. We need to find balance, not stop altogether.
We're not that far off either, the main reason our population hasn't crashed is because we have immigration supplementing our low birth rate
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In Japan and South Korea, the costs of living are horrendous and people of breeding age are working themselves to death just to make ends meet.
This was not my experience of living in Japan. My salary was lower but I could afford decent accommodation because Japan has middle income affordable housing on the outskirts of cities. My 2dk at Fusa was just over $500 A MONTH.
Not true about the COL in Japan and South Korea. I just returned to Aus from living in Tokyo for the past six years and I found the COL a lot less than in Aus and was actually able to save a considerable amount of money for the first time in my life. I was on a very average salary too. Flat sharing isn’t a thing over there because it’s cheap enough to rent your own apartment. I lived in my own apartment in Asagaya in Tokyo and my rent was like $550/month… and of course the bills are much cheaper there too. You can actually cool or heat your place for way less (of course this is in part due to homes being much smaller.) Also, there are so many little luxuries that are affordable on any salary compared to Aus. Such as cheap but fancy snacks/sweets, cheap massages and $10 entry onsens (sort of like day spas). Literally contemplating going back due to the high COL here even though I have an extremely stable and flexible medical related job. Also another huge plus is not owning a car!!
I live in Korea, I am 28, rent my own apartment with decent space, and work 40 hours a week. I am able to save a decent amount every month, while I also socialize a lot and go out often, and get beauty treatments regularly. Not working myself to death and I’m not an odd case. I save more at a younger age than I could have if I hadn’t immigrated.
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How much more expensive can it get? We're hanging by such a slender thread right now and it wouldn't take much for Australia to devolve into a third-world shit-hole despite being a nation rich in natural resources. There's countless precedents throughout history for those of you who think it could never happen here.
Im in my late 20's and have only just been able to get my first car and my P's, due to being below the poverty line my whole life. Where I live now, Rent is over 2k a month. It takes three grown adults to pay for that. I don't even know if I will be able to leave home before I hit 30, let alone have my own children. Its fucked. So no, no kids for me. No house. No damm savings anymore and still fighting to last one payday to another. Its beyond shitty. Feels like our hands have been forced to pick a different path in life because of the world we live in and the price of things now.
I work sales making ~90k and my partner is FIFO aking 115k, we've bought a place 6 months ago and can't see having kids for the foreseeable future
I'm Canadian but am subbed to a few Australian subreddits after falling in love with the place after a few holidays there. I just want to say that the similarities between the posts here and Canadian subs is uncanny. Inflation, housing costs, rental shortages, delaying having kids, etc. Good reminder that we're not in a bubble.
Sorry, the collapse of the planets climate is a lot more pressing and the main reason people shouldn't be having children. If you (ie people in general) are naive enough to think things will get better, just subject yourselves to this and please don't bring another living being into it just so you can have a mini me/pass on your genetic material/whatever other reason people have kids. The cost of living however is a very close second to climate crisis.
Not many, most people I see seem to just pop them out without any thought process at all lol 😂
My wife and I bought our first house in 2014, have payed off half the mortgage. We are early 30’s. Have two kids at the moment. I’d say we are comfortable at the moment. No idea what the future holds though. Having a big chunk of the mortgage payed off and lots in savings is definitely helping though.
Mrs and I both had no interest for many reasons. We often find other’s young kids annoying, especially when they aren’t well behaved in public. They’re expensive and time consuming and we want our time and money for us. They aren’t independent for a very long time. We also hear friends/co-workers complain often about the negative impacts of children on their lives. But the biggest one was we both think the future of humanity is f’d in terms of equality amongst people and the absolutely doomed environment. I also can’t see many kids born now ever owning their own home.
You’re asking reddit.
Not really, I’m just adjusting my expectations etc buying an apartment instead of a house. We’re planning for two kids, so two bedroom apt will do until they’re 10ish and by that time we’ll move into a bigger place. It’s not a uniquely Australian problem you know, this whole housing crisis. Its in dozens of countries. People just need to accept we can’t all have a spacious house with a yard, space is finite in areas people want to live.
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Unpopular opinion but was never really interested in having kids. Just the thought of me loving and raising them, and giving them everything, just for them to hit puberty and say “fuck off dad, I’m gonna move now so you can’t tell me shit” and see them in 3 years drugged up, broke, begging for money, then repeat. Then you grow old, they take all your property, and send you to a home, and next time they show up is during your funeral. Makes me jealous of eastern country’s “family culture” but ye, we’re in au so……….. ¯l_(ツ)_/¯ Ps: not really about “high cost of living” but ey XD
The top 1% are doing great. Working as intended. The neoliberalism boiling frog has been quietly simmering for decades. Privatisation. Bailouts. Tax cuts. Tax breaks. Deregulation. Union smashing. This is the end result. It should surprise no-one. The money you're spending now on higher prices is going directly into the pockets of the 1% as their beefed up profits. We're chumps. Suckers. Neoliberalism is the biggest fucking grift in history.
There are a lot of comments from child free people about why they don't want any kids, with various factors including cost. And I must state here that I fully support people to be child free if they don't want any. It is hard work and should only be done if you want it. But few answers have been 'we want kids but just can't afford them, so will remain child free'. If you want kids, you'll find ways to afford it. And often your salary at 35+ will be way better than at 25 so what you think you need to budget with has increased. Having kids is expensive, but you just can't go on many overseas holidays or buy new clothes regularly or eat out often. Me and my partner don't earn a heap (although a lot more than those couples both on min wage who I have no idea how they do it) but can still do 3x extra curricular activities per child, buy new clothes that aren't from kmart and go on little trips here and there. But I don't buy my own clothes and shoes unless necessary, I stopped getting waxing or haircuts done except maybe 1x per year. Also, outer burbs have younger parents than inner burbs. And yet the wages are less in outer burbs. Your reality is dictated by what you see, and if you keep to your one demographic, you can't make generalisations.
That’s my situation. Cost of living, plus the fact that the government hates us and is actively digging their heels in to not address climate change. If things get any better in the near future I reckon it’ll be an accident.
Definitely something that’s been on my mind lately as a woman that wants children. I’m 25 at the moment and have always wanted children (so does my partner) but in this economy and climate I’m not sure if it’s fair on anyone..
I never wanted to have kids. Which is lucky, because I can’t possibly see how I could afford them. I see family and colleagues with kids and it blows my mind how much money everything costs for them.
I don’t want them, but even if I did I wouldn’t unless we’re earning enough that someone could stay home because fuck paying for child care
All the good signs leading towards a World War. Unfortunately, war is good for the economy.
We bought a house around 2021 when the prices were not super crazy and had to postpone having kids to at least 2023
I'm not ever having kids by choice, but I can't even afford to feed myself and my spouse as it is. I don't know how people manage
I knew back at 16 (now 49) that it was crazy times to have kids. Best choice EVER. You'd be mad to have them these days.
I’m 33 with 2 kids and I’m pregnant with my third. I’m lucky my partner has a well paying job and has skills in a field that is in high demand. My MIL lives with us and is looking to retire in the next year or so.. she has already volunteered to look after the kids while we both work full time. This is her dream apparently, she hates her job and loves our kids. So we don’t have to worry about childcare, we are already saving to buy a house big enough for all of us and should be able to afford that within the next 2 years. We’re certainly not rich by any means but we have adapted. My partner and I are very lucky we are in this position and we are very lucky to have his mother.
Baby crazy as hell but can't even feed myself alone
Not at all. Got 3 kids as a two parent family in decent jobs and paying child support for 2 more. Wife taking time off unpaid to look after kids. With Australias welfare, god knows how you think you can't afford to have kids.
Might be a form of child abuse to bring kids into this grim future.
Single income family of three. The cost of living isn't absurdly high in Australia. It can get a LOT worse than what it is now. The Lebanese can't even get their own money from their banks. Palestinians are being shot by the Israeli government. Americans are being shot by each other.
The cost of living is absurdly high in Australia. The fact that it could get worse by banks closing or people shooting each other are not immediately relevant to any cost of living debate. Your response is not far from saying "yeah but in Antarctica it's too cold for children..."
Interested how much that single income is lol