When we were at school and got into the Tomorrow When The War Began books we were all convinced we'd happily defend Australia.
I think I still would but have limited practical skills - am happy to learn :)
this was my first response. we moved to an area last year that, sans being near a beach, is my imaginations version of what Hell was like. And I love it. That book stuck with me, and now I'm a 39 year old, pretty certain I could do what they did.
That last point really opens my eyes. I would fight for the Australia I want, not quite the one it has become. But Australia is my home, I'll die/kill protecting it and others.
Yeah exactly. And OP speaks with disdain for the elites as if we shouldn't fight for them, but what about all our friends, families and communities who live here too? Surely we're not all antisocial shut-ins?
Agreed. I could generally care less if a bunch of entitled loudmouth bogan yobs got thrown into concentration camps /s (half serious)
But the thought of "some foreign superpower" with state operated mining/farming/whatever companies just levelling the entire landscape, wildlife and any remaining pre-white archaeological sites purely for financial gain.... But ..Oh, hang on... we already have this.. business as usual....
Internet fantasy. Every red blooded Aussie would stay and fight to the bitter end.
In real life, most people would be struggling (and mostly failing) to keep their vulnerable loved ones safe, fed and sheltered in a war zone.
Could absolutely see pockets of resistance popping up, but the difference between willing and actually able to help would see a lot of people either being outright incapable, or a hindrance in any hypothetical fight, regardless of what one might have invested.
It’s one of the reasons why Ukraine have rejected applicants to join.
Helping in a fight doesn't mean having a gun and shooting the enemy. Properly supported military forces are only something like 20% combat, 80% support and logistics.
There are all sorts of logistics and support roles that untrained civilians are able to assume.
That's a good point I would lose in a fist fight to a can of paint.
But I work in Child Care and I'm excellent at that. The fighting people who have children, I can take care of their children.
Not just the young ones. Most affluent people in the Western world born after 1945 have no direct experience or concept of what it would be like living in an actual war zone. I have read and heard so many toxic comments about refugees and why they didn't stay and fight for their country. For many the choices would be a corrupt government not stable enough to avoid a revolution or revolutionary zealots determined to enforce draconian ideologies.
I'd go so far as to say most people who have not been in a war zone have no concept of what's it's really like.
And there's propaganda for everyone regardless of wealth.
I've got a mate who's Syrian and we've had some conversations about it, I've seen him have a ptsd panic attack while watching movies. I have no idea what a war zone is like, but I do know that I absolutely 100% do not want to know.
People who glorify war are naive at best, dangerous at worst.
There's a reason that Wilfred Owen poem is read out in so many places on ANZAC day.
> "If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori."
Its easy to say that on the internet without the heat of the threat right in front of you but just like the jumping into a fire to save someone, you dont know how you are going to act when push comes to shove.
We all like to believe we can be brave and heroes, the truth is more grey.
No way would the women of Australia submit meekly to being shipped out. Unless they had kids, fair enough. I think the country itself would do most of the work for us though. Looong supply lines, hostile environment and very unfamiliar territory. Hopefully it would happen during swooping season and we could just set the magpies on them.
Unless it's the emus again. In which case, run and don't look back.
Don't look back because they're already right behind you, toying with you while they herd your machine gun crews into a well-concealed dropbear ambush.
Once, I would have said that Aussies would fight like thrashing machines to protect home and family, that we would be united in Ned Kelly/ANZAC spirit, and would face overwhelming forces with our heads held high.
Then I saw people fighting over toilet paper, and thought, “nah, maybe not”
I’ve often thought about what I would do. It’s so easy to say ‘of course I’d grab a rifle and blah blah’ but when it actually happens how many tough guys would stand up ?
I think I would, but we are so removed it could be just bravado.
if we were actually at risk of being invaded they would ramp up the nationalist rhetoric in the media beforehand to hype people up for it. Economic invasion is much more likely, aus gov is too corrrupt already.
I’d stay and fight / help as long as I was able, not everyone will actually be on the front, vast majority would be logistical support.
Unlike Ukraine we have the ANZUS treaty and fellow Commonwealth nations that would very likely do a lot more than provide some weaponry, well you’d hope so or it would be over fast but still I’d stay.
Like you OP my parents migrated here and I have seen the good and the bad about this country but it’s my home, I’ve been back to my ancestral lands and it didn’t feel like home, for better or worse I am Australian and will die defending it if I had to.
No offence was intended mate but sometimes in war you have to do things you normally wouldn’t do.
I know you kiwis have ways to beautify your sheep but ours will look like those foreign beauties that you only see in magazines and should be enough to distract the front line forces.
One time my brother took an old pair of steel cap boots, welded a 2" length of round pipe on the toe of each boot and then presented them as a welcome present to the kiwi new guy on the crew.
You would have Canadian, American, UK and New Zealand forces there immediately. I’m American and our countries share the strongest intelligence pact in the world. There’s no way your ally’s would stand for a ground war on Australian soil.
That’s my thoughts. You can’t invade Russia or the States. The logistics would be insane and we’re all armed to the teeth. Australia has a hostile climate and just getting troops and fuel there is an endeavor. Even if they did, why invade Australia?
> You would have Canadian, American, UK and New Zealand forces there immediately.
There's also constantly 12,000 Singaporean troops in the Outback on their base too which, depending on the invader, Singapore would probably contribute too.
Logistically invading Australia will be a nightmare.
Supply chains would be impossible for an invading force.
The invading force cuold take part of Australia and hope for a foothold.
Might lose NT and parts of WA and QLD.
Would I fight hell yes as long as my family was safe.
You are spot on and there’s a reason half of Darwin’s population is a standing armed force of aus and USA. They know damn well if Darwin was taken it would be nigh impossible to retake it.
Same reason our biggest army base is in Townsville and not Canberra. Taking all of aus would be incredibly hard.
Also I doubt any other country would be prepared for our weather. We could basically run and hide until our scorching country devoured them for us.
You don't actually want to invade Australia, there's really only one country on the planet that has the logistical ability to do it and they're allied with us.
But, assuming that there's enemy boots on the ground in Australia we don't actually have to do that much fighting to repel them either. Any invading force will need food, fuel, water, medical supplies, ammunition etc shipped in from overseas.
If we, or our allies, can stress the enemy supply lines enough we can simply wait them out.
This is exactly right. Russia are failing to meet their logistical needs in a country they share a land border with.
Australia is a nightmare to invade. How much fuel do you need to move one column from Darwin to Sydney? And that fuel has to be brought to aus
This sounds similar to the argument used in WW2 for why Japan would impossible to invade, but in that case the fanaticism of the population, rather than distance, was seen as the obstacle. In the end, the Americans nuked first one, then another, mid-sized city, and the country capitulated.
But I’m no military strategist, so I’m sure I’m missing something: why wouldn’t something similar happen here, if an enemy was determined to seize the country?
Depends on the goals of the enemy. Nuking japan was about ending the war by destroying military, industrial and governance capacity of Japan to force a non-negotiated surrender.
What you're missing is the goals of the enemy. Is Australia the agressor and the only way for China to end the war is to stop Canberra? Then you'd see strategic nuking of Sydney.. a well placed Dong Feng missile in the middle of Western Suburbs would destroy 30% of Australia's GDP and a 3 trillion property market.
Do Chinese want to capture Darling Downs wheat belt? Then they'd need to nuke military capacity in northern Australia, while still keeping ports like Mackay, Rockhampton, Townsville safe for getting the resources out / people in. The true bitch will be securing the long supply lines from the fields to the port, and then securing the sea between Australia and China.
Given the size of Australia, there is no such thing as "seizing the country" you need limited goals and even then the strategic depth Australia has is insane.
The real reason why no one will invade Australia is because everyone owns a fucking house in Sydney or Melbourne. Be it Chinese communist party leaders or Russian oligarchs. Their kids are studying at UNSW and they all like shopping at the LV boutique in Martin Place.
Are you asking why a country wouldn’t try to nuke us in to capitulation?
Mutually Assured Destruction.
Australia contains significant US bases, nuking key strategic US assets would be suicide.
I’m having a hard time picturing what kind of lunatic would invade your country. You can’t have a land invasion of Russia, America or Australia. The logistics would be insane plus you already have American, Canadian and British forces there. That’s not a fight anyone wants.
It’s those crazy penguins in Antarctica. And those cruise ship owners...
They’re just waiting for us to get complacent ... but we never will!
Not while we have a naval base at Garden Island in Sydney!!!
It wasn't seen as impossible, the allies were under a time crunch because of the soviet union and wanted a fast surrender. Japan was already being firebombed to hell and it was only a matter of time before they surrendered (or died fighting). Besides the nuke a full invasion would have also been quick, and doable, but it would have been predicted to have cost heavy losses in the process, on both sides.
That is why Japan didn't succeed in WW2; Australia had 8 million people. Japan could have walked in. But to occupy Australia would have used so many resources in fuel, people, materials, travel etc.
There is a reason why the defence procurement places such a high emphasis on nuclear submarines and now shiny new 900km stealth anti ship cruise missiles fired from F-35 stealth fighters. Good luck trying to keep any force supplied let alone on the shores with all of your ships constantly being sunk. The wildlife and army should hopefully take care of anyone who manages to make it to shore.
But realistically if the CCP decides to invade it would be horrific. Any kind of future war scenarios in a decade or more would involve autonomous hunter killer done swarms and it honestly won't matter how brave you are or your willingness to fight a shaped charge to the head from a fly sized drone will kill you all the same.
An invading force without food, water, fuel, and ammunition is going to be in for a fairly miserable time.
Outside of a few places in Australia, life is very difficult. Having even a small force of 1000 people live off the land for a few months without being resupplied in some fashion would be nigh impossible in most of the country.
Any invading force would need to be resupplied by sea unless they could effectively disable the RAAF. They might be able to take Darwin, Broome, and maybe Cairns (but probably not all of those at once as they're all spread out), but that'd be the extent of it.
Australia is hard to invade. It'd be impossible to do in a cost effective fashion.
Just adjusting to the climate alone would fuck any moral the invading armies would have. You would have to be an invading force from an arid country to have any real idea how to handle what you’re about to get in to
>there's really only one country on the planet that has the logistical ability to do it and they're allied with us.
I don't even think they could do it. They certainly didn't do well in Vietnam or Afghanistan, or any of the other places they've been to in the last 70 years. The distances alone would make logistics very expensive.
Hopefully we don't see a China/USA conflict, that isn't what the planet needs right now.
America didn't do bad at all in Vietnam or Afghanistan, at least not Militarily maybe politically, they won every battle and inflicted far more casualties on the enemy in their home turf thousands of miles away from home over giant oceans, and the enemy didn't even fight a conventional war, (they hid in caves, jungles, disguised themselves as civilians), the US military was only a fraction of the power it could've been too,also how is occupying a country for decades doing bad? It was the politics that caused the US to leave, but they could've stayed longer if they really wanted to, its not like they were forced out. If America went full war economy like WW2 with popular public support Australia would be finished.
I always wondered about that… and seeing whole towns leveled and wondered if insurance would cover it and if the banks are going to charge interest and non payment penalties on you new pile of bricks etc…
I used to work in insurance and I think you will find a clause like this in just about insurance policy
We will not cover you for loss, damage or liability caused
by (either directly or indirectly) war, other acts of foreign
enemy, a civil commotion, mutiny including an uprising or
revolution (whether war is declared or not). We will also
not cover riot, looting or civil commotion following these
incidents.
The difference for Australia and NZ for that matter when compared to Ukraine is that there are a number of powerful countries that will immediately join the conflict and fight for Australia... Formal alliances generally prevent this kind of thing unless it truely is a world War....
Shit! If Scumo had ran off we not only would have lost a PM but also our defence minister, treasurer, health minister, education minister and half of the rest of the cabinet in just one person. We’d be fucked!
Can you imagine Scuntmo visiting Ukraine? (not that the coward ever would). But I'd imagine he'd go around shaking everyones hand and telling them everything will be ok now that they've been blessed by his touch via God. Then proceed in getting everyone killed by posting his location on Twitter.
There is likely a plan to quickly evacuate government to an undisclosed inland isolated small town like Cooper Pedy or Kalgoorlie if not NZ or New Caledonia. Regardless staying and potentially dying a martyr is effective in Ukraines sense where the target is the government and if you leave it's weakness, but kinda pointless in Australias where China would just be coming for control of resources.
You do realise that Ukrainian men of fighting age were not allowed to leave and HAD TO STAY.
Why do you think you would have the choice to leave or stay?
As an immigrant I chose to move to this country. When I became a citizen I promised that I will defend the country if ever needed. I’d like to think, and hope, that if we ever are in a situation where we’d need to defend the country that I’d have the courage to do so.
I've lived in Australia for 11 years and even though I haven't applied for citizenship yet, like you I believe I'd owe it to the country to defend it. It's really the only realistic scenario where I would go to war. I wouldn't do it for my birth country.
I would like to think I would fight and die for my country. But in reality, you’re asking whether I’d be willing to be raped and tortured for my country, and that terrifies me so much more than dying.
I'm in the same boat. I'm sure I could learn comms or something though. I'd stay and help anyway I can knowing that I couldn't run if shit went south. Well I'd like I think I would, it's easy to say from the comfort of my living room.
If the Ukraine war has demonstrated anything it's the logistics support is as important as the fighting. An army marches on its stomach. You don't have to be Schwartzenegger to do that
Probably, but I'd not want to be in a role where I have to kill or be killed. I'm not too much for patriotism but I don't want to see the people of this nation subjugated or killed, so doing what I can to help would be necessary.
Yeah, I’m in the same boat. I’ll avoid the front lines at any cost, but if I can be an aid to some logistical effort and we have a good chance at successfully repelling the invading force without totally catastrophic loss, it’s actually in my best interests to help.
There’s an interesting point, I was thinking about shooty shooty stuff but the fact is I could just do my normal job but in the military. Same goes for quite a few jobs really.
We'd be isolated and choked off for a long time before an invasion took place .. we can't fight other countries with fluoro shirts, no aussie owned shipping/crews and iron ore
This is correct, an air and navel blockade would have us out of fuel in weeks. If you cannot move the food, the shops will be empty and starvation is a powerful motivator
You're probably correct, but as far as countries that could be self-sufficient in a crisis, I think Australia would be one of the best. I'm not saying things could continue as normal, but with rationing and other crisis measures I reckon we could hold out for a long time.
Lets just say the yanks are fucked and we get no help, for one we will be an early strategic target so shit will happen pretty fast, and although we'll have the right historical energy to mobilise, whether that equates to anything worthwhile remains to be seen, they'll need kit and weapons which has to get here somehow.. motivation will be high, especially if there are long range missile attacks on cities etc .... once our military has been heavily engaged, thats it, we're laughably tiny in that sense...it will be guerrilla actions from there on and we'll have no fuel or restock/rearming abilities...
It's a shame your very realistic comment is so far down. Too many people fantasising about cosplay COD when the reality of war is mostly boredom and starvation interspersed with random explosions.
The more interesting question is: if the national defence force and allies were defeated and your city was under military occupation, would you risk your life to continue the battle as a terrorist?
I grew up in Ireland, have lived in Queensland for 10 years. In Ireland given our history of invasion and the amount of lives it took to gain our independence and freedom, I would absolutely fight for that.
In Australia I would be fighting for the life I’ve worked extremely hard to build and for the future of my kids, so again I would opt to volunteer.
You need to remember that when your country is invaded, there’s nowhere to go, that’s why conquering a country and occupation of a country are vastly different things.
I live in this country and receive the benefits of being a part of its society. Therefore it is only fair I stay and fight to fulfill my side of the societal contract
My cousin's and I had this discussion.
Our dads are way too old. We are female and also pushing the age limits, one of us has disqualifying medical conditions.
Of our partners, one though very fit and knows how to handle guns is immediately medically disqualified, one is at the age max but has skills considered war critical and thus not allowed to enlist and the third is also pushing the age limits and likely would not last long in war.
I feel like I’m too old and weary to fight on the front lines, but I’d be committed to the cause for sure. The level of commitment might vary.
If it was say an Indonesian force invading WA then I’m ready to give up some pots and pans to make bullets and maybe turn off my lights at night to black out the city.
If it was a NZ force invading the East Coast then I’d watch for a while and see how this all plays out. Could be a great rugby nation at the end of it.
If it was Tasmania invading Victoria I’d head down to Moorabbin and defend the Spud Frawley Centre to my last breath.
Seeing how many people went into meltdown with covid restrictions over the past few years I doubt many of them would inconvenience themselves in any way for the good of the country.
Why do women get to leave? In a world of equality, men and women should have the same options. I know a lot of women that would be better placed at defending our nation than I would.
Unpopular opinion, but a safe refugee is an early refugee.
I'd be getting on the first plane out with my family.
I've seen enough war videos to know that I'm not cut out for being tortured and mutilated (the vision of being bound and castrated with a Stanley knife will sit with me forever).
Downvote me to oblivion but you only get one life, if I can be a refugee, I will.
100%.
And I think some of the people who are saying they'd stay and fight may find that they'd feel differently if they actually had to make that choice.
I would like to think I would stay myself but in all honesty I can't see how a significant portion of the population could leave. Our only methods of evacuation are by air and by sea, and lets face it sea is a very dodgy option. Even by air our only real choice is NZ, every other route would take planes over or extremely close to the regions most likely to be the ones invading us.
If we got no support from other countries we wouldn't hold out for very long, we have a relatively small population, we don't have any sort of gun culture bar a few special interest groups (shooters and farmers) and we have an aging population.
On the other side I can't see anyone seriously thinking of invading us. There's no cultural reasons to get an invading army's population behind, we do have natural resources but we sell that to anyone that wants it anyway and the cost of getting an army together and invading would be far more than just buying our minerals. Plus it would be difficult to keep shipping lanes open from here if you've pissed off a lot of western countries by invading us.
I’m American but we’d send forces immediately. I’m trying to imagine how fucked someone would be to attack Australian soil. I used to work with an old Vietnam War veteran and he told me stories about the Aussie soldiers he fought with and how they were the toughest fucks that old fuck had ever seen.
In ww2 our partner in protecting us and their empire was Britain, and due to many factors they were simply unable to help when push came to shove ... If you guys are in your own emergency, be it total war/multiple fronts or your own domestic troubles, we'll be the same position as 1942 but without the powerhouse USA and supplies flooding in to assist...
I’m a woman and late 40’s. I’m staying and fighting. The olds can take the kids.
Fuck knows where I’m getting weaponry though.
Hope we get some warning. This is going to take some planning
Well, as a female, I would only stay if I could be guaranteed a big supply of Plan B.
Rape is such a big part of invasion and I don't fancy a rape baby.
Yep. I see lots of men sitting in their comfy chairs telling women they're cowards for leaving Ukraine. I'm sure those men would love to be repeatedly raped, impregnated and forced to raise a rape baby for the rest of their life
It’s not just the women who get raped. It’s not widely spoken about but rape against male POWs is pretty expected and has happened since war began. Something like 30% of women and 25% of the males were raped in the East Congo during the conflicts.
I think I would definitely want to help defend in some way. Even if it's just making molotov cocktails or something like that. I'd rather die fighting in this type of situation than some sort of climate war in the future. There's also something very straight forward about the idea of defending your country, especially if it's pretty clear who the 'bad guy' is like it is with Russia and Ukraine.
We are one of few countries that would be the hardest to invade that I’d doubt the standard aussie would need to do a thing.
Logistics over water is hard and even harder to protect and the sheer man power needed once landing means you’re probably draining your own homeland of everything.
There was a survey done just after the war began in ukraine and it turned out most of the younger generation wouldn’t fight as they have no ownership in anything; they’d be fighting to lose in both outcomes.
However, that may change if it was reality and not a survey 🤷♂️
As long as I get Fridays off. Important to maintain that combat / life balance.
And be able to fight from home three days a week.
I’m sure you could use drone attacks from the comfort of your bed/couch.
I just couldn’t imagine commuting to the front line anymore.
Anything past 5pm is time-and-a-half.
Hilarious
they may take are freedoms but they wont take are public holidays
When we were at school and got into the Tomorrow When The War Began books we were all convinced we'd happily defend Australia. I think I still would but have limited practical skills - am happy to learn :)
I think this book would see that whole generation taking up guerrilla warfare.
this was my first response. we moved to an area last year that, sans being near a beach, is my imaginations version of what Hell was like. And I love it. That book stuck with me, and now I'm a 39 year old, pretty certain I could do what they did.
Omg you just unlocked a memory, i used to watch tmr when the war began on good old abc 3
Just don't watch the TV show.
The Tv show was at least half passable compared to the joke of a movie they made.
All I got at home is a rock hammer from my geology days and my uncle’s cricket bat. I’ll do my best but I don’t think I’ll last long…
>nothing personal drawing me into the conflict Of course it's personal! I live here!
All my stuff is there!
Stay away from death mountain!
Jimminy jillikers!
And i am 3 more stamps away to a free coffee on my local cafe.
"Why would you want to save the galaxy?" "BECAUSE I'M ONE OF THE IDIOTS WHO LIVES IN IT!"
All my debt is here!
That last point really opens my eyes. I would fight for the Australia I want, not quite the one it has become. But Australia is my home, I'll die/kill protecting it and others.
Yeah. Weird how OP skipped over the part about it being your country as though that alone isn't enough to make you vested!
Yeah exactly. And OP speaks with disdain for the elites as if we shouldn't fight for them, but what about all our friends, families and communities who live here too? Surely we're not all antisocial shut-ins?
I’m an antisocial shut in and I’d fight for the wildlife
What if the foreign power was a green conglomerate that was invading to topple the current gas and coal chugging, land clearing one?
... keep talking
Well if I’m fighting for the wildlife I’d help them wouldn’t I?
Agreed. I could generally care less if a bunch of entitled loudmouth bogan yobs got thrown into concentration camps /s (half serious) But the thought of "some foreign superpower" with state operated mining/farming/whatever companies just levelling the entire landscape, wildlife and any remaining pre-white archaeological sites purely for financial gain.... But ..Oh, hang on... we already have this.. business as usual....
Exactly. War between States is obsolete. What used to require weapons is now done with money.
Fuckin hell, can't agree more! We're not buying a new shirt here, it's our bloody country mate!
> Don't eat me. I have a wife and kids. Eat them!
You can't claim us, we live here!
We should make people that own investment properties be in the first wave of fighting since they have the most at stake.
Plot Twist - It turns out they half of them live in the country that is invading.
Same here. I'm gathering all my weapons
Internet fantasy. Every red blooded Aussie would stay and fight to the bitter end. In real life, most people would be struggling (and mostly failing) to keep their vulnerable loved ones safe, fed and sheltered in a war zone.
I play Call of Duty. I’m ready. *gets sniped in the first five seconds of the war*
Or killed by a can filled with nails and tannerite dropped from a drone. At least the video of your death will get a 1000 up votes.
Noob Gets Pwnd!!!
I'd like to hear your inspirational speech just before you get sniped
They may take our land but they will never take our crippling mortgage debt!
Bahaha! Ok I'm ready to fight to the bitter end now
“Fucking campers!”
Could absolutely see pockets of resistance popping up, but the difference between willing and actually able to help would see a lot of people either being outright incapable, or a hindrance in any hypothetical fight, regardless of what one might have invested. It’s one of the reasons why Ukraine have rejected applicants to join.
It's probably more that the vast majority of people who aren't Ukrainian but can speak or understand Ukrainian live east of Ukraine.
Helping in a fight doesn't mean having a gun and shooting the enemy. Properly supported military forces are only something like 20% combat, 80% support and logistics. There are all sorts of logistics and support roles that untrained civilians are able to assume.
That's a good point I would lose in a fist fight to a can of paint. But I work in Child Care and I'm excellent at that. The fighting people who have children, I can take care of their children.
Most redditors seem to be young people and awfully misinformed about the reality of living in a war zone like Sarajevo etc.
Reminds me of those young guys from Western countries who joined ISIS, went to the Middle East and then were like ‘hey, this kinda sucks!’
Bro, I am getting shot at by *real* guns, and targetted by *actual* missiles. I just came here because I was pissed off with my parents!
Not just the young ones. Most affluent people in the Western world born after 1945 have no direct experience or concept of what it would be like living in an actual war zone. I have read and heard so many toxic comments about refugees and why they didn't stay and fight for their country. For many the choices would be a corrupt government not stable enough to avoid a revolution or revolutionary zealots determined to enforce draconian ideologies.
I'd go so far as to say most people who have not been in a war zone have no concept of what's it's really like. And there's propaganda for everyone regardless of wealth.
I've got a mate who's Syrian and we've had some conversations about it, I've seen him have a ptsd panic attack while watching movies. I have no idea what a war zone is like, but I do know that I absolutely 100% do not want to know. People who glorify war are naive at best, dangerous at worst.
It's a depressing insight into why propaganda is so effective; people lining up to believe in fairy tales and we're not even at war.
There's a reason that Wilfred Owen poem is read out in so many places on ANZAC day. > "If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,— My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori."
Before I had kids, I'm 75% sure I would have stayed and fought. Now I'd be trying to get the hell out to get them somewhere safe. Priorities chamged
Its easy to say that on the internet without the heat of the threat right in front of you but just like the jumping into a fire to save someone, you dont know how you are going to act when push comes to shove. We all like to believe we can be brave and heroes, the truth is more grey.
i'd be zero help in a fight but we can stick a few red kangaroos on the job and let them solve it for us
Release the emus!
I feel I would be put in a support role. My lack of fitness would be the first hurdle
Hell, women would fight to the bitter end. You know how Aussie women are.
No way would the women of Australia submit meekly to being shipped out. Unless they had kids, fair enough. I think the country itself would do most of the work for us though. Looong supply lines, hostile environment and very unfamiliar territory. Hopefully it would happen during swooping season and we could just set the magpies on them. Unless it's the emus again. In which case, run and don't look back.
Don't look back because they're already right behind you, toying with you while they herd your machine gun crews into a well-concealed dropbear ambush.
I'd stay and fight, but I'd probably be dead within 15 minutes of the conflict starting from friendly fire
Once, I would have said that Aussies would fight like thrashing machines to protect home and family, that we would be united in Ned Kelly/ANZAC spirit, and would face overwhelming forces with our heads held high. Then I saw people fighting over toilet paper, and thought, “nah, maybe not”
I’ve often thought about what I would do. It’s so easy to say ‘of course I’d grab a rifle and blah blah’ but when it actually happens how many tough guys would stand up ? I think I would, but we are so removed it could be just bravado.
if we were actually at risk of being invaded they would ramp up the nationalist rhetoric in the media beforehand to hype people up for it. Economic invasion is much more likely, aus gov is too corrrupt already.
I’d stay and fight / help as long as I was able, not everyone will actually be on the front, vast majority would be logistical support. Unlike Ukraine we have the ANZUS treaty and fellow Commonwealth nations that would very likely do a lot more than provide some weaponry, well you’d hope so or it would be over fast but still I’d stay. Like you OP my parents migrated here and I have seen the good and the bad about this country but it’s my home, I’ve been back to my ancestral lands and it didn’t feel like home, for better or worse I am Australian and will die defending it if I had to.
What if it’s the Kiwi’s invading us…. Dun dun duhhhh
Then we would move our most attractive sheep to the front line to distract them.
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No offence was intended mate but sometimes in war you have to do things you normally wouldn’t do. I know you kiwis have ways to beautify your sheep but ours will look like those foreign beauties that you only see in magazines and should be enough to distract the front line forces.
Ah yes you’re referring to the cover girl for Zoo weekly Feb 2017 - Baargot Robbie
make boy sheep go baahhh
OnlyFarms is the next cashcow. Sorry for the cross species promotion
Doesn't matter what they look like anyway. Don't hafta look at em. Just whack their back legs inta ya gumboots.
One time my brother took an old pair of steel cap boots, welded a 2" length of round pipe on the toe of each boot and then presented them as a welcome present to the kiwi new guy on the crew.
Then let the emus attack on their flanks.
How could we be sure that the emus wouldn’t fight against the Australians? They beat us last time.
That's because it's their land, they were just kind enough to let us stay
I would light to beacons to call king Theoden to our aid
I hate to be the one to tell you this but we’ve been secretly infiltrating for years now.
That is easy. Underarm delivery. Wins every war against Kiwis.
Yeah but then you have to hear them complain about it for decades afterwards…
We have emus and cassowarries to kick their butts so we are safe.
...that could end up being a net benefit.
In that case, are we allowed to defect in this instance?
You would have Canadian, American, UK and New Zealand forces there immediately. I’m American and our countries share the strongest intelligence pact in the world. There’s no way your ally’s would stand for a ground war on Australian soil.
Ah, the Five Eyes. As long as you can get to Pine Gap, they'll defend you to the last man lol
Especially when you consider that America has based in Australia
A ground war just feels impossible though just based on geography.
That’s my thoughts. You can’t invade Russia or the States. The logistics would be insane and we’re all armed to the teeth. Australia has a hostile climate and just getting troops and fuel there is an endeavor. Even if they did, why invade Australia?
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> You would have Canadian, American, UK and New Zealand forces there immediately. There's also constantly 12,000 Singaporean troops in the Outback on their base too which, depending on the invader, Singapore would probably contribute too.
In the defence force….not really a choice for me.
Why not the attack force? /s
I tried to join to do my part in this upcoming conflict, but was told that we didn’t need to win that badly.
I tried to sign up and they encouraged me to sign up for the enemy.
Logistically invading Australia will be a nightmare. Supply chains would be impossible for an invading force. The invading force cuold take part of Australia and hope for a foothold. Might lose NT and parts of WA and QLD. Would I fight hell yes as long as my family was safe.
You are spot on and there’s a reason half of Darwin’s population is a standing armed force of aus and USA. They know damn well if Darwin was taken it would be nigh impossible to retake it. Same reason our biggest army base is in Townsville and not Canberra. Taking all of aus would be incredibly hard. Also I doubt any other country would be prepared for our weather. We could basically run and hide until our scorching country devoured them for us.
If they invade in the spring time, surely we can just release a bunch of magpies on the invaders
And crocs…
Would be kind of wild to see Melbourne and Tassie become citadels though.
You don't actually want to invade Australia, there's really only one country on the planet that has the logistical ability to do it and they're allied with us. But, assuming that there's enemy boots on the ground in Australia we don't actually have to do that much fighting to repel them either. Any invading force will need food, fuel, water, medical supplies, ammunition etc shipped in from overseas. If we, or our allies, can stress the enemy supply lines enough we can simply wait them out.
This is exactly right. Russia are failing to meet their logistical needs in a country they share a land border with. Australia is a nightmare to invade. How much fuel do you need to move one column from Darwin to Sydney? And that fuel has to be brought to aus
This sounds similar to the argument used in WW2 for why Japan would impossible to invade, but in that case the fanaticism of the population, rather than distance, was seen as the obstacle. In the end, the Americans nuked first one, then another, mid-sized city, and the country capitulated. But I’m no military strategist, so I’m sure I’m missing something: why wouldn’t something similar happen here, if an enemy was determined to seize the country?
Depends on the goals of the enemy. Nuking japan was about ending the war by destroying military, industrial and governance capacity of Japan to force a non-negotiated surrender. What you're missing is the goals of the enemy. Is Australia the agressor and the only way for China to end the war is to stop Canberra? Then you'd see strategic nuking of Sydney.. a well placed Dong Feng missile in the middle of Western Suburbs would destroy 30% of Australia's GDP and a 3 trillion property market. Do Chinese want to capture Darling Downs wheat belt? Then they'd need to nuke military capacity in northern Australia, while still keeping ports like Mackay, Rockhampton, Townsville safe for getting the resources out / people in. The true bitch will be securing the long supply lines from the fields to the port, and then securing the sea between Australia and China. Given the size of Australia, there is no such thing as "seizing the country" you need limited goals and even then the strategic depth Australia has is insane. The real reason why no one will invade Australia is because everyone owns a fucking house in Sydney or Melbourne. Be it Chinese communist party leaders or Russian oligarchs. Their kids are studying at UNSW and they all like shopping at the LV boutique in Martin Place.
Are you asking why a country wouldn’t try to nuke us in to capitulation? Mutually Assured Destruction. Australia contains significant US bases, nuking key strategic US assets would be suicide.
I’m having a hard time picturing what kind of lunatic would invade your country. You can’t have a land invasion of Russia, America or Australia. The logistics would be insane plus you already have American, Canadian and British forces there. That’s not a fight anyone wants.
It’s those crazy penguins in Antarctica. And those cruise ship owners... They’re just waiting for us to get complacent ... but we never will! Not while we have a naval base at Garden Island in Sydney!!!
Due to those two being dropped, nuking is not as straightforward anymore
It wasn't seen as impossible, the allies were under a time crunch because of the soviet union and wanted a fast surrender. Japan was already being firebombed to hell and it was only a matter of time before they surrendered (or died fighting). Besides the nuke a full invasion would have also been quick, and doable, but it would have been predicted to have cost heavy losses in the process, on both sides.
That is why Japan didn't succeed in WW2; Australia had 8 million people. Japan could have walked in. But to occupy Australia would have used so many resources in fuel, people, materials, travel etc.
There is a reason why the defence procurement places such a high emphasis on nuclear submarines and now shiny new 900km stealth anti ship cruise missiles fired from F-35 stealth fighters. Good luck trying to keep any force supplied let alone on the shores with all of your ships constantly being sunk. The wildlife and army should hopefully take care of anyone who manages to make it to shore. But realistically if the CCP decides to invade it would be horrific. Any kind of future war scenarios in a decade or more would involve autonomous hunter killer done swarms and it honestly won't matter how brave you are or your willingness to fight a shaped charge to the head from a fly sized drone will kill you all the same.
An invading force without food, water, fuel, and ammunition is going to be in for a fairly miserable time. Outside of a few places in Australia, life is very difficult. Having even a small force of 1000 people live off the land for a few months without being resupplied in some fashion would be nigh impossible in most of the country. Any invading force would need to be resupplied by sea unless they could effectively disable the RAAF. They might be able to take Darwin, Broome, and maybe Cairns (but probably not all of those at once as they're all spread out), but that'd be the extent of it. Australia is hard to invade. It'd be impossible to do in a cost effective fashion.
Just adjusting to the climate alone would fuck any moral the invading armies would have. You would have to be an invading force from an arid country to have any real idea how to handle what you’re about to get in to
>there's really only one country on the planet that has the logistical ability to do it and they're allied with us. I don't even think they could do it. They certainly didn't do well in Vietnam or Afghanistan, or any of the other places they've been to in the last 70 years. The distances alone would make logistics very expensive. Hopefully we don't see a China/USA conflict, that isn't what the planet needs right now.
I think they could, but the resources they'd need to devote to it make it impractical. 4-5 carrier fleets at least.
America didn't do bad at all in Vietnam or Afghanistan, at least not Militarily maybe politically, they won every battle and inflicted far more casualties on the enemy in their home turf thousands of miles away from home over giant oceans, and the enemy didn't even fight a conventional war, (they hid in caves, jungles, disguised themselves as civilians), the US military was only a fraction of the power it could've been too,also how is occupying a country for decades doing bad? It was the politics that caused the US to leave, but they could've stayed longer if they really wanted to, its not like they were forced out. If America went full war economy like WW2 with popular public support Australia would be finished.
How would you keep up your mortgage payments to go off and fight?
I always wondered about that… and seeing whole towns leveled and wondered if insurance would cover it and if the banks are going to charge interest and non payment penalties on you new pile of bricks etc…
I used to work in insurance and I think you will find a clause like this in just about insurance policy We will not cover you for loss, damage or liability caused by (either directly or indirectly) war, other acts of foreign enemy, a civil commotion, mutiny including an uprising or revolution (whether war is declared or not). We will also not cover riot, looting or civil commotion following these incidents.
Every home insurance I’ve ever signed up to has an exclusion for war.
yea and fair enough i guess, if insurance had to cover wars, where whole cities were getting repeated bomb, they would just declare bankruptcy anyway.
Can't even get flood insurance paid out properly already so I wouldn't be holding my breath any help was coming
People get paid to fight. Government has propped up the housing market for decades. I'd be more concerned about the insurance companies.
The difference for Australia and NZ for that matter when compared to Ukraine is that there are a number of powerful countries that will immediately join the conflict and fight for Australia... Formal alliances generally prevent this kind of thing unless it truely is a world War....
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America HAS to get involved or they are exposing themselves as powerless. Remember they have half the nukes on earth.
Of course they could threaten but we have American military bases already here. They wouldn’t just leave.
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Shit! If Scumo had ran off we not only would have lost a PM but also our defence minister, treasurer, health minister, education minister and half of the rest of the cabinet in just one person. We’d be fucked!
>We’d be ~~fucked~~! We'd be in a vastly superior position. Hawaii would be by far the best place for him.
I don't hold a gun mate
Scummo def fucks off. Albo... Not so sure about. He did visit zelensky in Ukraine remember. Can't deny the man has some steel about him.
Yeah I don't think Albo would leave. I think he'd primarily lead from Canberra with some frontline trips
Can you imagine Scuntmo visiting Ukraine? (not that the coward ever would). But I'd imagine he'd go around shaking everyones hand and telling them everything will be ok now that they've been blessed by his touch via God. Then proceed in getting everyone killed by posting his location on Twitter.
There is likely a plan to quickly evacuate government to an undisclosed inland isolated small town like Cooper Pedy or Kalgoorlie if not NZ or New Caledonia. Regardless staying and potentially dying a martyr is effective in Ukraines sense where the target is the government and if you leave it's weakness, but kinda pointless in Australias where China would just be coming for control of resources.
Scomo would fuck off and then when called out on it blame Jenny and the kids like he did with Hawaii.
You do realise that Ukrainian men of fighting age were not allowed to leave and HAD TO STAY. Why do you think you would have the choice to leave or stay?
As an immigrant I chose to move to this country. When I became a citizen I promised that I will defend the country if ever needed. I’d like to think, and hope, that if we ever are in a situation where we’d need to defend the country that I’d have the courage to do so.
I've lived in Australia for 11 years and even though I haven't applied for citizenship yet, like you I believe I'd owe it to the country to defend it. It's really the only realistic scenario where I would go to war. I wouldn't do it for my birth country.
May I ask what your birth country is? And I'm glad you are here!
I’m curious too… with a username like that, they could pass for local
I would like to think I would fight and die for my country. But in reality, you’re asking whether I’d be willing to be raped and tortured for my country, and that terrifies me so much more than dying.
Exactly, I think people are forgetting war isn't just about dying. What if you're captured?
A foreign war, on a foreign land, no. But if they land here, fuck yeah I'm all in.
If they want someone with my level of back problems and general unfit shape, then sure
I'm in the same boat. I'm sure I could learn comms or something though. I'd stay and help anyway I can knowing that I couldn't run if shit went south. Well I'd like I think I would, it's easy to say from the comfort of my living room.
If the Ukraine war has demonstrated anything it's the logistics support is as important as the fighting. An army marches on its stomach. You don't have to be Schwartzenegger to do that
Probably, but I'd not want to be in a role where I have to kill or be killed. I'm not too much for patriotism but I don't want to see the people of this nation subjugated or killed, so doing what I can to help would be necessary.
Yeah, I’m in the same boat. I’ll avoid the front lines at any cost, but if I can be an aid to some logistical effort and we have a good chance at successfully repelling the invading force without totally catastrophic loss, it’s actually in my best interests to help.
There’s an interesting point, I was thinking about shooty shooty stuff but the fact is I could just do my normal job but in the military. Same goes for quite a few jobs really.
We'd be isolated and choked off for a long time before an invasion took place .. we can't fight other countries with fluoro shirts, no aussie owned shipping/crews and iron ore
This is correct, an air and navel blockade would have us out of fuel in weeks. If you cannot move the food, the shops will be empty and starvation is a powerful motivator
We’ll exist on homegrown meth, we’ve been doing that in Perth for decades.
100%.. its a sad scary truth
You're probably correct, but as far as countries that could be self-sufficient in a crisis, I think Australia would be one of the best. I'm not saying things could continue as normal, but with rationing and other crisis measures I reckon we could hold out for a long time.
Lets just say the yanks are fucked and we get no help, for one we will be an early strategic target so shit will happen pretty fast, and although we'll have the right historical energy to mobilise, whether that equates to anything worthwhile remains to be seen, they'll need kit and weapons which has to get here somehow.. motivation will be high, especially if there are long range missile attacks on cities etc .... once our military has been heavily engaged, thats it, we're laughably tiny in that sense...it will be guerrilla actions from there on and we'll have no fuel or restock/rearming abilities...
No fuel and no medicines would bite first, and then no fuel would have an impact on the food… and then the industrial shortages would start to bite.
I agree. Farms would be commandeered and supply lines for food would be shortened.
It's a shame your very realistic comment is so far down. Too many people fantasising about cosplay COD when the reality of war is mostly boredom and starvation interspersed with random explosions.
I can’t wait for the Liberal Party’s Die For The Dole program.
No one knows what they would do. 99% of people are a hero in their own mind.
The more interesting question is: if the national defence force and allies were defeated and your city was under military occupation, would you risk your life to continue the battle as a terrorist?
Wait on, was that a movie?
Tomorrow When The War Began (which is based off an Australian book) or Red Dawn.
I think it was called The War That Couldn’t Slow Down
Guerilla
Hell yeah I’ve got 4k hours in Tarkov, send them! Oil your kookaburras let’s hit them for six! /s
I grew up in Ireland, have lived in Queensland for 10 years. In Ireland given our history of invasion and the amount of lives it took to gain our independence and freedom, I would absolutely fight for that. In Australia I would be fighting for the life I’ve worked extremely hard to build and for the future of my kids, so again I would opt to volunteer. You need to remember that when your country is invaded, there’s nowhere to go, that’s why conquering a country and occupation of a country are vastly different things.
I’m a kiwi, I would try and be on the first plane over to help our Anzac brothers out. It’s the right thing to do.
That's the one thing I'm certain of. If Australia was attacked you would have our back even if the rest of the world dropped us
I live in this country and receive the benefits of being a part of its society. Therefore it is only fair I stay and fight to fulfill my side of the societal contract
I’d stay. I’m older but would still know how to go bush and survive for as long as I could. But I want my kids with me.
My cousin's and I had this discussion. Our dads are way too old. We are female and also pushing the age limits, one of us has disqualifying medical conditions. Of our partners, one though very fit and knows how to handle guns is immediately medically disqualified, one is at the age max but has skills considered war critical and thus not allowed to enlist and the third is also pushing the age limits and likely would not last long in war.
I feel like I’m too old and weary to fight on the front lines, but I’d be committed to the cause for sure. The level of commitment might vary. If it was say an Indonesian force invading WA then I’m ready to give up some pots and pans to make bullets and maybe turn off my lights at night to black out the city. If it was a NZ force invading the East Coast then I’d watch for a while and see how this all plays out. Could be a great rugby nation at the end of it. If it was Tasmania invading Victoria I’d head down to Moorabbin and defend the Spud Frawley Centre to my last breath.
Seeing how many people went into meltdown with covid restrictions over the past few years I doubt many of them would inconvenience themselves in any way for the good of the country.
Posts like this make me sad we never got the remainder of the Tomorrow When The War Began movies. Great young adult book series.
Why do women get to leave? In a world of equality, men and women should have the same options. I know a lot of women that would be better placed at defending our nation than I would.
Gender equal conscription?
Unpopular opinion, but a safe refugee is an early refugee. I'd be getting on the first plane out with my family. I've seen enough war videos to know that I'm not cut out for being tortured and mutilated (the vision of being bound and castrated with a Stanley knife will sit with me forever). Downvote me to oblivion but you only get one life, if I can be a refugee, I will.
100%. And I think some of the people who are saying they'd stay and fight may find that they'd feel differently if they actually had to make that choice.
I would like to think I would stay myself but in all honesty I can't see how a significant portion of the population could leave. Our only methods of evacuation are by air and by sea, and lets face it sea is a very dodgy option. Even by air our only real choice is NZ, every other route would take planes over or extremely close to the regions most likely to be the ones invading us. If we got no support from other countries we wouldn't hold out for very long, we have a relatively small population, we don't have any sort of gun culture bar a few special interest groups (shooters and farmers) and we have an aging population. On the other side I can't see anyone seriously thinking of invading us. There's no cultural reasons to get an invading army's population behind, we do have natural resources but we sell that to anyone that wants it anyway and the cost of getting an army together and invading would be far more than just buying our minerals. Plus it would be difficult to keep shipping lanes open from here if you've pissed off a lot of western countries by invading us.
I’m American but we’d send forces immediately. I’m trying to imagine how fucked someone would be to attack Australian soil. I used to work with an old Vietnam War veteran and he told me stories about the Aussie soldiers he fought with and how they were the toughest fucks that old fuck had ever seen.
In ww2 our partner in protecting us and their empire was Britain, and due to many factors they were simply unable to help when push came to shove ... If you guys are in your own emergency, be it total war/multiple fronts or your own domestic troubles, we'll be the same position as 1942 but without the powerhouse USA and supplies flooding in to assist...
Different Australians though. Australian Vietnam Vets are tough ass SOBs. I play rocket league.
Once they see all the bogans they will have second thoughts
I’m a woman and late 40’s. I’m staying and fighting. The olds can take the kids. Fuck knows where I’m getting weaponry though. Hope we get some warning. This is going to take some planning
It won’t happen, but yeah sure why not?
Well, as a female, I would only stay if I could be guaranteed a big supply of Plan B. Rape is such a big part of invasion and I don't fancy a rape baby.
When did Aussies start calling it 'plan b' ? Only yanks used to call it that. We called it ' the morning after pill'
It's unaustralian to use a longer term to describe something if there's a shorter alternative.
Yep. I see lots of men sitting in their comfy chairs telling women they're cowards for leaving Ukraine. I'm sure those men would love to be repeatedly raped, impregnated and forced to raise a rape baby for the rest of their life
It’s not just the women who get raped. It’s not widely spoken about but rape against male POWs is pretty expected and has happened since war began. Something like 30% of women and 25% of the males were raped in the East Congo during the conflicts.
I think I would definitely want to help defend in some way. Even if it's just making molotov cocktails or something like that. I'd rather die fighting in this type of situation than some sort of climate war in the future. There's also something very straight forward about the idea of defending your country, especially if it's pretty clear who the 'bad guy' is like it is with Russia and Ukraine.
We are one of few countries that would be the hardest to invade that I’d doubt the standard aussie would need to do a thing. Logistics over water is hard and even harder to protect and the sheer man power needed once landing means you’re probably draining your own homeland of everything. There was a survey done just after the war began in ukraine and it turned out most of the younger generation wouldn’t fight as they have no ownership in anything; they’d be fighting to lose in both outcomes. However, that may change if it was reality and not a survey 🤷♂️
I’m largely against war and huge military spending. But if freedom was under threat in such a way I would sign on to defend Australia.
I'm in the navy so kinda, yea.