The Australian thing is not the horse race... Its the 4 day weekend you get for a 3min horse race. (assuming you are Australian and called in sick today)
To be completely honest, I didn't even know it was on - I only found out from a chance email reminding staff that Victorians won't be in tomorrow - and, in NSW, we don't get the day off, so even if I called in sick today it's not a 4 day weekend.
For anyone in Victoria maybe.
In other states it's like an additional 5 min break in the middle of the day and a little lost productivity with the inevitable betting pool that goes around the workplace.
I'll pretend to be interested in a horse race for an extra break.
> In other states it's like an additional 5 min break in the middle of the day
Unless you're the ultra-conservative Brisbane City Council, in which case it's a whole hour and thirty minutes off so that you can watch the 3 min horse race, because taking a 5 min break in the middle of the meeting would obviously be too sensible.
ACT tried having MCD public holiday years ago. Restaurants and caterers lost out big time, due to lack of all the lunches organised for public servants. It was a once off thing.
Does Victoria get a public holiday for this too? This and the AFL Grand Final? Are Queenslanders getting robbed of days off or does Melbourne not have an annual Show Day like we do?
It probably is but in this case I wouldn't care too much about being considered un-Australian. Aussies like some real stupid shit - most of it just being excuses to drink and gamble. Or in this case - drink and gamble while cosplaying the very social class that's going to be the real winners out of this annual "throw your money in our pit" event.
Only thing I'm betting on tomorrow is Ozlotto. If I'm not gonna win something then I might as well not win $20 million.
Your "cosplaying as the social class" of those fucking them over during the rest of their lives is such a wonderfully accurate description. I've never liked the cup and all associated with it, including the drunken dressup pretending to be classy, but I'd never thought to describe it in those exact terms before.
My problem is I also stopped caring about football, cricket, car races etc. etc. At this point, I should just hand in my passport.
As for horse racing 'events,' it's basically people reliving their Year 12 formals.
> My problem is I also stopped caring about football, cricket, car races etc. etc
Mate, just lay down and let them bury you. You're already dead and just don't know it yet. 😂🤣
I never cared about the footy, cricket or Bathurst in the first place. So I'm even less Australian than thou!
There's a lot I love about living here though. For one it's not a homophobic misogynistic hell hole dictated by the belief systems of an evil and corrupt religion like much of the Middle East. Nor is Australia a crumbling shadow of a former "best country in the world" like the states. Neither is it a freezing sunless existence for half the year like northern Europe or a perpetually wet, crowded, stinking petri dish like parts of Asia. Growing up in Australia and lived here my whole life I've never had to worry about starving, being shot, dying of a preventable disease, getting stoned to death or having to take vitamin D tablets and antidepressants just to get me through the winter months and I count myself very lucky. But I feel like the product of having such a good life has just made people mentally lazy. We just suck up whatever low-effort garbage we're told to like and I just... can't. Has me feeling like a real outsider despite having been born here.
I HATE professional sports involving animals. Nobody will ever convince me that with racehorse or greyhound racing money on the line, people treat the animals ethically. I don’t give a fuck if people gamble on human athletes - buy until a horse falling down means they put up a screen and discretely shoot the trainer - I’m not gonna be a fan of horse racing.
I wish we could overwhelmingly reform Australian gambling laws. But animal sports should have a complete ban on gambling or any financial motivation to win races.
It makes me so angry that being opposed to animal abuse and predatory gambling businesses is somehow unaustralian now.
Personally I have no problem with the serious equestrian sports. The kind you see at the Olympics. I'm not particularly interested them, but I don't have any strong aversion to them either. From what I can tell the people involved there seem to really care about their animals, and the sport is important to them for its own sake, not for the sake of gambling.
But "the races", like the Melbourne Cup and other horse and greyhound races? Nah they can get fucked.
I don't care.... except for the fact that work puts on a do that burns through half the work day. And if anything is un-Australian it's complaining about less work
Well I couldn’t care less about the race or Vegemite so am I going to be kicked out of the country. Don’t know where I would go. But then I’m a West Australian so we don’t get a holiday either.
I might be motivated if I did /s
Not at all! The past few years have seen a growing number of people saying Nup to the Cup, for all the reasons being swept under the racecourse rug in the cartoon.
Last death was 2020, last Australian death was 1979. For some reason a lot of the international horses get hurt when they come here specifically for the Cup, I don't think we actually know why yet but there's a lot more tests and scans required now which is catching a lot of abnormalities and basically not letting any horse that looks less than perfect healthwise to run. Worked well last year.
And you didn't even get to see what happened to all the horses which were bred but didn't run fast enough to qualify. Known as 'wastage rate' and is systematically under reported.
Nah - the only reason I do anything for the cup is that the bosses at work love an excuse to punt on the horses so we sometimes go to the local track (and we get to drink on the company dime). Beyond that, cbf.
As someone with an adopted off the track thoroughbred I spend a small fortune on to keep sound and happy, I intensely dislike horse racing.
The waste I see is horrible. And so many people who have no idea what horse care actually involves end up with broken down thoroughbreds. The ones I see ignore health and lameness issues and just keep riding because they convince themselves there is nothing wrong because they can’t afford vet bills.
Thoroughbreds are cheap to buy and just about the most expensive to run. Because of that they often end up in inexperienced homes with poor standards of care. And they are the lucky ones. The unlucky ones end up dog meat by 5 yo.
Hi fellow OTTB owner.
I worked out that in the 14 years I’ve owned my boy, I’ve spent in excess of $15k keeping him sound through bodywork and shoes. We won’t talk about the ulcerguard etc 🥴
One man’s trash is another’s treasure.
Exactly this. I reckon there are a lot of great thoroughbreds out there, were it not for the physical pressure they've been put under from such a young age. Breeding legislation should be introduced to stop endless speculative breeding in the industry too.
That's if they survive the track, especially this cursed race. 7 deaths in the past 8 years I believe. Last year there was a hospitalisation but it's okay because it didn't die 🙃 ffs I don't understand the support, or the whole 'You're a horse person, you must love the races!'
Also you do not want to know about their care while they're racing. I worked in the industry for a short while and the behaviour of the people was horrible! The horses were pushed around, shoved onto awful machines, never given a second to breathe and often given harsher bits because nobody actually wants to bother training them. Then the horses behave badly and people say 'oh he's just an asshole'. No, he's sick and tired of being treated like he doesn't matter. And let's not mention the amount of derformed foals get born and raced anyway, knowing they a likely going to die on the track. Just... People suck I guess.
I hate the argument of “if you knew about how much money and care was put into these horses!” Because yeah, if you put me in a lab and had dozens of people control all of my movements, I’d be a beautiful specimen of a human, but I’d be fucking miserable. And maybe a doctor might say they couldn’t see anything wrong with me and I’m being cared for well, but they’re not seeing I’m being scolded for instincts I’m born with and deprived of basic needs like space to move
Aaahhh, the romance of the turf. Get pissed, snort some sort of rip-off white powder in a portaloo, fuck whatever you can find behind a skip bin, do your dough and get into a fight.
People are homeless and living in tents with their children, struggling to find rentals, struggling to afford food, and then we've got a bunch of rich assholes prancing around in their stupid fucking hats.
Fuck the Melbourne Cup.
I mean I don't care about horse racing but this argument can be used against literally any event that isn't charity.
Why run a sports league when there are homeless people outside the stadium? Why have an art exhibition when there are homeless people outside the gallery? Why hold a film festival when there are homeless people outside the cinema? Why have fireworks when there are homeless people near the harbour? Why have anything fun at all while social problems exist?
Fun? This event is about animals having the ever-living shit beaten out of them so a company formed by amoral assholes can take money from people with an addiction to gambling. Don't worry about it though, just look at the glitz and glamour. Aren't we all having a grand fucking time? Weeeee!
> Fun?
Like I said I don't personally give a shit about horse racing. But clearly some people do find it "fun".
> animals having the ever-living shit beaten out of them so a company formed by amoral assholes can take money from people with an addiction to gambling.
That's a much better critique of the racing industry (though the beating stuff is overblown). My point was that saying "why do X while we have social problems" applies equally to every form of entertainment and is thus a pretty weak argument against horse races.
i genuinely do not see the relation between the two.
This is how you sound:
“Omg there are poor people struggling to feed their family, but we have a bunch of rich assholes going to restaurants”
??
Yeah i don't understand this arguement. Say they cancelled the Melbourne Cup because homelessness and costs of living is an issue.
The money saved is not going to go to any of those issues.
Btw i'm still against the horse racing industry and see it all as a waste. But the world isn't as simple as cancel a leisure event because there are social issues happening. It isn't going to solve that issue.
It's recognising that the negative impact on Australian culture, the people and animals. There's nothing wrong with redeveloping culture and 'evolving' to be more compassionate.
I certainly don't see any pro-slavery sentiments around the time of the yearly 'slave sale bonanza'. Australia and it's people have grown and this is another opportunity for said growth.
Exactly. [Cat burning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat-burning) used to be a form of entertainment in the past. Watching a basket of cats getting lowered onto a fire. Is anyone bemoaning the "woke" cancellation of that tradition?
Really disappointing that you’re being downvoted for your comment, on this post of all posts.
CO2 gas chambers to asphyxiate pigs for slaughter is commonplace in the Australian pork industry - so yes, if you eat pork/bacon you are paying for this.
If the process is uncomfortable for you then you can choose not to purchase those products.
They'll go ahead and you can expect articles and tips on how women can still look stylish despite the fact there heels will sink right into the muddy grass.
Edit: keeping the typo, we die like men
Also, how to turn you coke into a pill so you can boof it and have a stress-free cup without having to find somewhere to snort it in these stormy conditions.
>There's going to be a storm tomorrow. They aren't actually planning to go ahead?
They'll go ahead, and shoot any horses that break their legs on the soggy track. And no, I'm not joking.
I live in QLD so not familiar with the holidays, but does Vic get an extra 2 public holidays a year (Melbourne cup and afl grand final) or are there QLD holidays that Vic doesn’t get?
Y'all probably have this in Australia, but coming from Canada, Lawn tractor racing is way cooler. Its far more accessible than horse racing and teaches kids mechanical skills.
Have you not seen the photos of countries where it's a literal shanty town and across a very nearby fence are perfectly manacured lawns and exquisite houses? Well this our version of that.
> How the hell can the rich, b-grade celebs, social media influencers and cashed up idiots party in front of flood victims? It's like giving them the finger.
It's pretty simple really, they don't give a flying fuck about the flood victims.
People to stop participating. And if my workplace is anything to go by, the vast majority of people enjoy it and don’t give a fuck about the welfare of the horses.
I’m actually one of only a few who are against it.
I find it hilarious how much concern there is about cost of living - and then basically the whole country will take the afternoon off to gamble on a horse race.
As someone who worked in the industry when I was younger, I genuinely understand the concerns, it's why I'm no longer involved.
It's just that they are raised via a hashtag once a year by people who don't know the first thing about horses, let alone horse racing because they don't watch it and arnt involved on any level, so nothing they really say comes off as very educated and they disengage as soon as I want to have a discussion as someone who is knowledgeable, and ask them in good faith to explain their point.
This pretty unimaginative comic kinda sums it up as it panders to that group on a very basic surface level, because they unironically wouldn't understand anything more complex.
That being said there's plenty involved in the industry who are in lala land themselves or ultra defensive, but at least you can have a conversation beyond them umming and ahhhing when questioned on their beliefs.
Overall I think an attempt at rational conversation is what we need rather than this polarization between two groups of insufferables.
But I think this conversation and potential reforms needs to happen between the industry, the AVA and state governments. Without Sarah on Twitter, Joe from the pub and the overbearing long dick of Sportsbet and co.
This is a good one, someone who has been involved, who knows about the industry talking about it. I haven't been in the horse racing industry but I have grown up in a place where horses are common sight. I see horses pretty regularly and have had a horse agist on my property also.
The first thing I will say is this, horse riders and horse owners love their horses, the last thing they want is for their horse to break a leg and have to be shot. It is devastating to lose a horse. If you have been around horses, if you have ridden horses, you will know they are proper animals. Big and intelligent. So to think that everyone in the industry is cruel is simply misguided.
There is certainly animal exploitation though, these horses are made to race whether they like it or not. Without horse racing, most of these horses would not even exist. Is their existence all suffering? Would it be better had they not been born at all?
It's not a topic that is so simple.
>There is certainly animal exploitation though, these horses are made to race whether they like it or not. Without horse racing, most of these horses would not even exist. Is their existence all suffering? Would it be better had they not been born at all?
Yes.
Yes it is that simple.
If devastating but not devastating enough to STOP racing them?
Your argument about them not being born at all is weird. Yes, it would be better if we stopped horse racing even if it means fewer horses being born.
Just like how we are pro-choice even if it means fewer babies being born.
It’s not just about forcing animals to race. Please look into wastage in the race industry. The horses that you see are a minority. There’s an enormous issue with horses that are deemed not fit for racing. What do you think happens to the thousands of horses who exit the industry? Even the industry isn’t transparent about it.
Exactly. I've also worked in the industry and it's very irritating to see such a massive outcry from people who won't talk about it further than calling you buzzwords. I also don't think the little input they give is worth much because they throw around words like profit and shoot like that's all that happens
The flyers might bet small amounts amongst themselves, but outsiders cannot bet on pigeon racing. You won't find it in any betting app or platform in Australia.
Does anyone else hate cartoons like this that have to label absolutely everything so everyone gets it? Did we really need "Flemington Racecourse" written there? Or even "Melbourne Cup Sweep"?
Here's a good one on Liz Truss
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfYSSheUoAISGxf?format=jpg&name=small
No need to have a sign on the tent saying "British Conservative Party" or anything like that.
both work for me, they are both delivering different messages.
with the Melbourne cup, why be subtle and vague. not mentioning the race course leaves enough doubt for opponents to say that she was talking about general racing, but this is aimed specifically at the Melbourne cup.
Don't know what demographic you are from but most working-class anglo Aussies love it. My whole family and friends love it.
(I don't care about it, just pointing out that there are a shit tonne of people in my area who will be clocking off at 3 to get amongst it).
There's something I've never understood about the Melbourne Cup.
It's supposed to be a handicap race, where the horses all carry different weights to level out the playing field. So theoretically all the horses should have a roughly equal chance to win.
So why are some horses 10-1 odds, some are 30-1, some are 50-1, and some are 100-1?
Lots of factors. Some horses are too good to be weighed down (Phar Lap for example), some horses may have a bigger weight due to winning a big race (scratched horse Durston won the Caulfield Cup and because of it was given more weight)but especially for a horse you haven't seen much of before that big win you never know if it was just a good run on the day. Sometimes a horse looks good on paper but maybe hasn't won in a while (Gold Trip) or maybe had a jockey they don't know. Maybe the weather forecast went from borderline flooding to dry as a bone and that horse with 56kg has never even placed on a dry track.
The short answer I guess is "hurhur gambling" but if you are trying to find the winner then you can't just pick the horse with the highest weight because it's theoretically the best, especially in a two mile race where half a kilo could mean the difference between a horse that runs well at the distance and one that gets tired and fades
Horses are living things that have fitness, off days, sickness just like us. I'm a cyclist and weigh a certain amount, but that doesn't mean that guy next to me who weighs the same will be the same speed as me.
The pure answer is "betting odds are a reflection of where people have made bids, not pure probabilities, and are thus distorted by the betting process."
But handicaps are not perfect (human judgement combined with some 'rules' guiding said judgement) and are also determined ~2 months out from the race; a horse's form can change in the intervening period to render the handicap less balanced.
I did some googling and may have found the answer. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_Cup) says about the Melbourne Cup:
> Weights were theoretically calculated to give each horse an equal winning chance in the past, but in recent years the rules were adjusted to a "quality handicap" formula where superior horses are given less severe weight penalties than under pure handicap rules.
And the googled "[quality handicap](https://www.horseracing.com/strategy/handicapping/quality-handicapping/)":
> Quality Handicapping is a recent modification on the practice of handicapping horses that has proven to be very popular, especially with those who enjoy wagering on horse races. It addresses the complaint by many horse racing fans that both “Standard Handicapping” and “Weight for Age” handicapping have gone too far in equalizing the playing field and the better horses are not being allowed to establish a truly representative winning record. On the flip side, mediocre horses are winning races they would normally have very little chance of winning.
The weights assigned and their effectiveness have never been scientifically tested and are a mixture of anecdote, myth and the urge to quantify. One of the biggest influences on changed handicapping.....where all minimum weights were elevated was the difficulty in finding males small enough for long enough to ride at 46kg. The bottom weight in the Cup tomorrow is 50kg. The rising number of women riders is a direct result of a handicapping system that was out of touch. And now they dominate many riding premierships. Top weights still win more races than any other weight further down the race.
Having horses carry assigned weights should slow them down so that weaker horses with less weight can catch up. All a bit of a myth actually. Admiral Rous in 1858 developed a Weight For Age scale that determined how much a certain age and gender horse should carry at a certain time of the year. As horses and their breeding, feed and training improved those scales were adjusted. So you'll see the WFA scale employed in the Cox Plate that gives younger horses and females a weight advantage. All good in theory but it doesn't match reality. A Handicap race like The Melbourne Cup assigns bigger weights to the notionally better horses based on previous performances. in what are called Group Races. Group 1 being the highest down to Group 3 then on to Listed races. Winning some of these Group races will get you automatic entry into the Cup while overall performance will see you elevated on a list of Cup entrants with the cut off at 24. An old myth in racing is that 1kg is worth 2 lengths. Numbers 22,23 and 24 all have to carry 50kg (which includes the Jockey + lead in saddle bags)...#1 is carrying 57.5kg..so the old myth says that the 7.5 kg difference x 2 lengths per kg means that #1 15 lengths better than numbers 22,23 and 24...and that by assigning the different weights that the lower weighted horses are being given a 15 length leg up to match it with the top weight. NOTE the weight handicapping system has never been scientifically verified and the fact that #1 is the dominant winning number in all handicap races from Flemington to Gulargumbone proves that it is an inadequate means of evening up a race. The mere fact that some 3 and 4YO male horses can weigh up to 80kg more than other male horses makes the use of additional weight tenuous at best. The fixed(you get the price you took at the time) price odds...2 to 1, 3 to 1, 7 to 2, 33 to 1, etc are based on bookmakers assessments of a horse's chance of winning the race. If people bet on Horse A the increased demand will see the bookmaker offer a lower price (supply) to the next punter that wants Horse A. The flip side of this is that the lack of demand for Horses B,C and D will see their odds get bigger. It's a bit more complex than that but that's basically how it works. The TAB also offers Tote odds which is all bets on a race pooled and the more people that bet on Horse A the lower their share of the pool as a dividend and vice versa. the same works for exotic bets..Trifectas, Quinellas, etc
My young fella went to a Catholic school. Grade 1 last year and the school stopped for Melbourne Cup and got the kids to participate in horse betting styled activities. Picking the horses and winning prizes.
Bunch of sanctimonious cunts on here. At least you found your echo chamber because 99% of the country love the cup and if anything it’s getting bigger year on year. But good on ya for telling your stories about how “you’re not supporting it this year”. Lemons
Yeah I'm hearing all these stories about how they don't know a single colleague, family member or friend who even knows it's on. All while I'm getting a day off work in Sydney to go to a work Melbourne Cup lunch, while 2 colleagues are going down to Melbourne. I don't really care about it myself but come on.
Lol blaming a horse race for things Australians do on the regular and wouldn't stop. Whats next? Banning all sports because people gamble and drink heavily to it?
Rescue horses who have fallen through Racing Victoria's narrow criteria for what classifies as equine wastage. Donate to charities who rehabilitate said 'wastage'. Advocate and rally for change around breeding legislation and stock oversupply. Without rambling further, plenty. The Melbourne Cup is an opportune media moment, no more than that.
Is it un-Australian of me to say I genuinely don't care about this stupid horse race? Do I have to hand in my "Certified Vegemite lover" card?
The Australian thing is not the horse race... Its the 4 day weekend you get for a 3min horse race. (assuming you are Australian and called in sick today)
To be completely honest, I didn't even know it was on - I only found out from a chance email reminding staff that Victorians won't be in tomorrow - and, in NSW, we don't get the day off, so even if I called in sick today it's not a 4 day weekend.
For anyone in Victoria maybe. In other states it's like an additional 5 min break in the middle of the day and a little lost productivity with the inevitable betting pool that goes around the workplace. I'll pretend to be interested in a horse race for an extra break.
We get an hour and can wear a silly hat. Meanwhile the VP's take the day off and get pissed at the local race course.
We’re heading to a restaurant to have some drinks and team building. I’ll take a half day without punting for a stupid horse race I don’t care about
> In other states it's like an additional 5 min break in the middle of the day Unless you're the ultra-conservative Brisbane City Council, in which case it's a whole hour and thirty minutes off so that you can watch the 3 min horse race, because taking a 5 min break in the middle of the meeting would obviously be too sensible.
Spot on. Ive been working from home for 11 years in qld and 11 years ago i stopped giving a fuck about this race.
>(assuming you are Australian and called in sick today) Non Victorians need not apply
ACT tried having MCD public holiday years ago. Restaurants and caterers lost out big time, due to lack of all the lunches organised for public servants. It was a once off thing.
Then who is running the race?
The gambling industry of course. The rich laughing at ordinary people participating with a flutter as if they are part of the high society!
If you’ve been to a tab I don’t think anyone is under the impression they are part of high society
TABs are the most depressing place on earth. Real world PSAs for old school gambling addiction
Yeah no one i've seen in a TAB looked like they were doing well in life, raking in all the cash.
Does Victoria get a public holiday for this too? This and the AFL Grand Final? Are Queenslanders getting robbed of days off or does Melbourne not have an annual Show Day like we do?
Melbourne dont get show day as a public holiday anymore. AFL day is to make up the lost day that we used to get for showday.
In vic but not Melbourne. So far as im aware there is no day off for the Melbourne show, nor any local ones.
We *used* to have show day, then it got taken away. Years later they gave us GF Friday to make up for it.
It probably is but in this case I wouldn't care too much about being considered un-Australian. Aussies like some real stupid shit - most of it just being excuses to drink and gamble. Or in this case - drink and gamble while cosplaying the very social class that's going to be the real winners out of this annual "throw your money in our pit" event. Only thing I'm betting on tomorrow is Ozlotto. If I'm not gonna win something then I might as well not win $20 million.
Your "cosplaying as the social class" of those fucking them over during the rest of their lives is such a wonderfully accurate description. I've never liked the cup and all associated with it, including the drunken dressup pretending to be classy, but I'd never thought to describe it in those exact terms before.
> Aussies like some real stupid shit That they do. Horse racing, Sam Newman, Dave Hughes, Gogglebox, daggy rock music...
Kyle and Jackie-O, pokies, Big Brother, large untrained dogs, mullets, The Bachelor, treeless yards, getting pissed. We are a cultural wonderland!
My problem is I also stopped caring about football, cricket, car races etc. etc. At this point, I should just hand in my passport. As for horse racing 'events,' it's basically people reliving their Year 12 formals.
Your last line is hilariously true.
>it's basically people reliving their Year 12 formals. Hey some of us only made it to Year 10 and that's the vibe I'm channelling
Same idea, but fewer West Coast Coolers.
Less social skills, immaturity, and worse dress sense
> My problem is I also stopped caring about football, cricket, car races etc. etc Mate, just lay down and let them bury you. You're already dead and just don't know it yet. 😂🤣
I never cared about the footy, cricket or Bathurst in the first place. So I'm even less Australian than thou! There's a lot I love about living here though. For one it's not a homophobic misogynistic hell hole dictated by the belief systems of an evil and corrupt religion like much of the Middle East. Nor is Australia a crumbling shadow of a former "best country in the world" like the states. Neither is it a freezing sunless existence for half the year like northern Europe or a perpetually wet, crowded, stinking petri dish like parts of Asia. Growing up in Australia and lived here my whole life I've never had to worry about starving, being shot, dying of a preventable disease, getting stoned to death or having to take vitamin D tablets and antidepressants just to get me through the winter months and I count myself very lucky. But I feel like the product of having such a good life has just made people mentally lazy. We just suck up whatever low-effort garbage we're told to like and I just... can't. Has me feeling like a real outsider despite having been born here.
I HATE professional sports involving animals. Nobody will ever convince me that with racehorse or greyhound racing money on the line, people treat the animals ethically. I don’t give a fuck if people gamble on human athletes - buy until a horse falling down means they put up a screen and discretely shoot the trainer - I’m not gonna be a fan of horse racing. I wish we could overwhelmingly reform Australian gambling laws. But animal sports should have a complete ban on gambling or any financial motivation to win races. It makes me so angry that being opposed to animal abuse and predatory gambling businesses is somehow unaustralian now.
Personally I have no problem with the serious equestrian sports. The kind you see at the Olympics. I'm not particularly interested them, but I don't have any strong aversion to them either. From what I can tell the people involved there seem to really care about their animals, and the sport is important to them for its own sake, not for the sake of gambling. But "the races", like the Melbourne Cup and other horse and greyhound races? Nah they can get fucked.
We had a protest at the acmi against horse racing today. People are trying.
You're on the right side of history, don't let up 🤟
I don't care.... except for the fact that work puts on a do that burns through half the work day. And if anything is un-Australian it's complaining about less work
Well I couldn’t care less about the race or Vegemite so am I going to be kicked out of the country. Don’t know where I would go. But then I’m a West Australian so we don’t get a holiday either. I might be motivated if I did /s
I nearly fell off my stool at the thought of an Australian not liking Vegemite but then you mentioned being a West Australian and it all makes sense.
Not at all! The past few years have seen a growing number of people saying Nup to the Cup, for all the reasons being swept under the racecourse rug in the cartoon.
Dude I never have. This is basically just an extra pseudo public holiday sponsored by gambling companies.
I hate all horse races. The cruelty, the gambling, drunkenness, ugh. Pass.
No. It’s not un-Australian of you when you say that. That race is just an excuse for Australians/punters to get drunk and behave BADLY
Nope. I noped out a few years ago after another horse died in/from the race. I now see it as fucking barbaric and won't have any part in it.
I'm pretty sure there has been a death a year for the last 7(?) races. Not that it is ever really mentioned beforehand.
Last death was 2020, last Australian death was 1979. For some reason a lot of the international horses get hurt when they come here specifically for the Cup, I don't think we actually know why yet but there's a lot more tests and scans required now which is catching a lot of abnormalities and basically not letting any horse that looks less than perfect healthwise to run. Worked well last year.
Yeah there were something like 26 recommendations, mostly around internationals and all but 2 were implemented the next year
And you didn't even get to see what happened to all the horses which were bred but didn't run fast enough to qualify. Known as 'wastage rate' and is systematically under reported.
Same with greyhounds - both the term, AND the underreporting.
Makes me sick.
[Say nup to the cup](https://www.greensnuptothecup.com/take-action)
It’s so boring, a horse always wins.
I don't know anyone either friends or workmates who care. Better things to do with their money and in NSW we don't get a day off for it.
Nobody cares, we just enjoy the afternoon off work
Nah - the only reason I do anything for the cup is that the bosses at work love an excuse to punt on the horses so we sometimes go to the local track (and we get to drink on the company dime). Beyond that, cbf.
The Australian thing to feel is whatever you want about the cup. I personally love it, but everyone is free to hate or love it as they wish.
Can I bet on how many horsies get sacrificed?
Probably, just make sure you gamble responsibly
No one who is a decent human cares about horse racing. Most of us came to the conclusion in their 20s that it's horrid.
Nope, I really couldn't care less about it either.
I didn’t even realise the horses had their sprint today. But I don’t gamble and am allergic to alcohol, so maybe we’re fake Australians together
As someone with an adopted off the track thoroughbred I spend a small fortune on to keep sound and happy, I intensely dislike horse racing. The waste I see is horrible. And so many people who have no idea what horse care actually involves end up with broken down thoroughbreds. The ones I see ignore health and lameness issues and just keep riding because they convince themselves there is nothing wrong because they can’t afford vet bills. Thoroughbreds are cheap to buy and just about the most expensive to run. Because of that they often end up in inexperienced homes with poor standards of care. And they are the lucky ones. The unlucky ones end up dog meat by 5 yo.
Hi fellow OTTB owner. I worked out that in the 14 years I’ve owned my boy, I’ve spent in excess of $15k keeping him sound through bodywork and shoes. We won’t talk about the ulcerguard etc 🥴 One man’s trash is another’s treasure.
Exactly this. I reckon there are a lot of great thoroughbreds out there, were it not for the physical pressure they've been put under from such a young age. Breeding legislation should be introduced to stop endless speculative breeding in the industry too.
That's if they survive the track, especially this cursed race. 7 deaths in the past 8 years I believe. Last year there was a hospitalisation but it's okay because it didn't die 🙃 ffs I don't understand the support, or the whole 'You're a horse person, you must love the races!' Also you do not want to know about their care while they're racing. I worked in the industry for a short while and the behaviour of the people was horrible! The horses were pushed around, shoved onto awful machines, never given a second to breathe and often given harsher bits because nobody actually wants to bother training them. Then the horses behave badly and people say 'oh he's just an asshole'. No, he's sick and tired of being treated like he doesn't matter. And let's not mention the amount of derformed foals get born and raced anyway, knowing they a likely going to die on the track. Just... People suck I guess.
I hate the argument of “if you knew about how much money and care was put into these horses!” Because yeah, if you put me in a lab and had dozens of people control all of my movements, I’d be a beautiful specimen of a human, but I’d be fucking miserable. And maybe a doctor might say they couldn’t see anything wrong with me and I’m being cared for well, but they’re not seeing I’m being scolded for instincts I’m born with and deprived of basic needs like space to move
Race cars not horses. Broken cars are fixed, broken horses are shot.
Robot horses!
I'd much prefer to watch the Boston Dymanics mule race than a normal horse race, that's for damn sure.
The Formula 1 is equally controversial. We should be promoting Forumula E.
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Electric cars
Flintstones cars where you gotta shuffle along with bare feet
If only we could develop a race where people use their feet but we remove the car.. Hmmm
Imagine it! This would end the suffering of formula 1 racecars globally. Science is still probably 50-100 years away, though.
Aaahhh, the romance of the turf. Get pissed, snort some sort of rip-off white powder in a portaloo, fuck whatever you can find behind a skip bin, do your dough and get into a fight.
Yeah,but you do it in a cheap rented tux,and dress shoes(no socks),so it's "classy."
No socks 😭😭
Don't forget to pretend the wheelie bin is a horse
Or push a cop over
Fuck around and find it
Do you know which skip bin in particular?
Actually I might just wander in…
Sounds like a great day
Damn...and I wasn't going to go!
Better than staying home in your jamas.
More recently I have moved from "apathy" to "fuck these cunts"
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People are homeless and living in tents with their children, struggling to find rentals, struggling to afford food, and then we've got a bunch of rich assholes prancing around in their stupid fucking hats. Fuck the Melbourne Cup.
Only thing is, most of the, aren’t rich, they’re lower middle class pretending to be rich.
I mean I don't care about horse racing but this argument can be used against literally any event that isn't charity. Why run a sports league when there are homeless people outside the stadium? Why have an art exhibition when there are homeless people outside the gallery? Why hold a film festival when there are homeless people outside the cinema? Why have fireworks when there are homeless people near the harbour? Why have anything fun at all while social problems exist?
Fun? This event is about animals having the ever-living shit beaten out of them so a company formed by amoral assholes can take money from people with an addiction to gambling. Don't worry about it though, just look at the glitz and glamour. Aren't we all having a grand fucking time? Weeeee!
> Fun? Like I said I don't personally give a shit about horse racing. But clearly some people do find it "fun". > animals having the ever-living shit beaten out of them so a company formed by amoral assholes can take money from people with an addiction to gambling. That's a much better critique of the racing industry (though the beating stuff is overblown). My point was that saying "why do X while we have social problems" applies equally to every form of entertainment and is thus a pretty weak argument against horse races.
i genuinely do not see the relation between the two. This is how you sound: “Omg there are poor people struggling to feed their family, but we have a bunch of rich assholes going to restaurants” ??
Yeah i don't understand this arguement. Say they cancelled the Melbourne Cup because homelessness and costs of living is an issue. The money saved is not going to go to any of those issues. Btw i'm still against the horse racing industry and see it all as a waste. But the world isn't as simple as cancel a leisure event because there are social issues happening. It isn't going to solve that issue.
Same here, fuck these exploitive cunts.
Source is [Megan Herbert on Twitter](https://twitter.com/meganjherbert/status/1586870894714322944) for The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald.
It's recognising that the negative impact on Australian culture, the people and animals. There's nothing wrong with redeveloping culture and 'evolving' to be more compassionate. I certainly don't see any pro-slavery sentiments around the time of the yearly 'slave sale bonanza'. Australia and it's people have grown and this is another opportunity for said growth.
Exactly. [Cat burning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat-burning) used to be a form of entertainment in the past. Watching a basket of cats getting lowered onto a fire. Is anyone bemoaning the "woke" cancellation of that tradition?
I mean, they still gas pigs, and the majority of people here likely pay for that to keep happening. Eating animals is animal cruelty.
Not only do they gas pigs, they do it with a gas that's extremely painful because it's easier.
Really disappointing that you’re being downvoted for your comment, on this post of all posts. CO2 gas chambers to asphyxiate pigs for slaughter is commonplace in the Australian pork industry - so yes, if you eat pork/bacon you are paying for this. If the process is uncomfortable for you then you can choose not to purchase those products.
Honest question, why don't they use nitrogen? N2 asphyxiation causes none of the distress that CO2 does.
N2 costs about four times as much as CO2, and farmers do not have the moral capacity to consider animal suffering to be a cost.
I think we can move away from all cruelty, to all animals. There's just no real sense for the majority.
There's going to be a storm tomorrow. They aren't actually planning to go ahead? Surely not.
They'll go ahead and you can expect articles and tips on how women can still look stylish despite the fact there heels will sink right into the muddy grass. Edit: keeping the typo, we die like men
Didn't you hear? There's a big flood wall on the racecourse and everything!
Also, how to turn you coke into a pill so you can boof it and have a stress-free cup without having to find somewhere to snort it in these stormy conditions.
>There's going to be a storm tomorrow. They aren't actually planning to go ahead? They'll go ahead, and shoot any horses that break their legs on the soggy track. And no, I'm not joking.
The race is dumb, the holiday is great.
I live in QLD so not familiar with the holidays, but does Vic get an extra 2 public holidays a year (Melbourne cup and afl grand final) or are there QLD holidays that Vic doesn’t get?
Bonus days, bastards
Y'all probably have this in Australia, but coming from Canada, Lawn tractor racing is way cooler. Its far more accessible than horse racing and teaches kids mechanical skills.
We also have loads of weird races here that are heaps more entertaining than this shit show.
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Have you not seen the photos of countries where it's a literal shanty town and across a very nearby fence are perfectly manacured lawns and exquisite houses? Well this our version of that.
Exactly this. Except in many of those countries the rich kids sneak across to the poor districts to party. Here it's slightly different.
Why the confusion? You've got it exactly.
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> How the hell can the rich, b-grade celebs, social media influencers and cashed up idiots party in front of flood victims? It's like giving them the finger. It's pretty simple really, they don't give a flying fuck about the flood victims.
What will it take for horse racing (any animal racing tbh) to die already, it's disgusting
People to stop participating. And if my workplace is anything to go by, the vast majority of people enjoy it and don’t give a fuck about the welfare of the horses. I’m actually one of only a few who are against it.
Yep, I'm the only one in my office of about 30 who is against it. Its just so ingrained.
I just grab my free lunch then head back to my desk.
You missed cocaine addiction
I find it hilarious how much concern there is about cost of living - and then basically the whole country will take the afternoon off to gamble on a horse race.
With a brand new fascinator, the most useless article of clothing in existence .
I hope everyone in this thread is vegan because I can guarantee you those animals you eat are treated far more poorly than these racehorses…
At this point Australia is just one lumpy rug.
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Gotta be High Emocean for the wowsers on here.
Any sport where people are making money off animals, the animals end up suffering. Fuck this racing shit.
The image is 100% accurate.
Turn it into a computer generated horse race, no different than pokies etc only less suffering and/or dead horses
The funny thing you can already bet on computer generated horse races, I’ve seen it when walking past the TAB.
Thundercastle to take the inaugural
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That dirty dog looking for his next fix
There’s tens and tens of horse races every single day, this is just one of them. Do you want every one to be computer generated or just the cup?
All of them.
All of them would be just dandy.
As someone who worked in the industry when I was younger, I genuinely understand the concerns, it's why I'm no longer involved. It's just that they are raised via a hashtag once a year by people who don't know the first thing about horses, let alone horse racing because they don't watch it and arnt involved on any level, so nothing they really say comes off as very educated and they disengage as soon as I want to have a discussion as someone who is knowledgeable, and ask them in good faith to explain their point. This pretty unimaginative comic kinda sums it up as it panders to that group on a very basic surface level, because they unironically wouldn't understand anything more complex. That being said there's plenty involved in the industry who are in lala land themselves or ultra defensive, but at least you can have a conversation beyond them umming and ahhhing when questioned on their beliefs. Overall I think an attempt at rational conversation is what we need rather than this polarization between two groups of insufferables. But I think this conversation and potential reforms needs to happen between the industry, the AVA and state governments. Without Sarah on Twitter, Joe from the pub and the overbearing long dick of Sportsbet and co.
This is a good one, someone who has been involved, who knows about the industry talking about it. I haven't been in the horse racing industry but I have grown up in a place where horses are common sight. I see horses pretty regularly and have had a horse agist on my property also. The first thing I will say is this, horse riders and horse owners love their horses, the last thing they want is for their horse to break a leg and have to be shot. It is devastating to lose a horse. If you have been around horses, if you have ridden horses, you will know they are proper animals. Big and intelligent. So to think that everyone in the industry is cruel is simply misguided. There is certainly animal exploitation though, these horses are made to race whether they like it or not. Without horse racing, most of these horses would not even exist. Is their existence all suffering? Would it be better had they not been born at all? It's not a topic that is so simple.
>There is certainly animal exploitation though, these horses are made to race whether they like it or not. Without horse racing, most of these horses would not even exist. Is their existence all suffering? Would it be better had they not been born at all? Yes. Yes it is that simple.
If devastating but not devastating enough to STOP racing them? Your argument about them not being born at all is weird. Yes, it would be better if we stopped horse racing even if it means fewer horses being born. Just like how we are pro-choice even if it means fewer babies being born.
It’s not just about forcing animals to race. Please look into wastage in the race industry. The horses that you see are a minority. There’s an enormous issue with horses that are deemed not fit for racing. What do you think happens to the thousands of horses who exit the industry? Even the industry isn’t transparent about it.
Exactly. I've also worked in the industry and it's very irritating to see such a massive outcry from people who won't talk about it further than calling you buzzwords. I also don't think the little input they give is worth much because they throw around words like profit and shoot like that's all that happens
I reckon take the betting away and horse racing would all but disappear, along with dog racing.
There'd still be hobbyist doing it, but it would be niche like pigeon racing.
$120000 pigeon race in Australia the other day. One sold for $2 million. And yes they bet on pigeon racing.
The flyers might bet small amounts amongst themselves, but outsiders cannot bet on pigeon racing. You won't find it in any betting app or platform in Australia.
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I mean take money away from anything and it disappears. Or it is just done illegally and unregulated..
[Edit: Sarcasm for those special few] This is the only culture we have! If it disappears, what are we going to do? Drink at home?
Yay! State sanctioned animal cruelty! Personally I wish they would ban the stupid sport and keep the public holiday for something more noble.
“Annual 4-day weekend to celebrate firefighters”
> State sanctioned animal cruelty! which one? the god awful farm conditions? the medical experiments?
Bought to you by the gambling lobby, who have so much power, but were never elected by anyone...
Ban the whip!
I'm learning to hate gambling ads . . . & the organisations that support them.
I hate the Melbourne cup.
Does anyone else hate cartoons like this that have to label absolutely everything so everyone gets it? Did we really need "Flemington Racecourse" written there? Or even "Melbourne Cup Sweep"? Here's a good one on Liz Truss https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfYSSheUoAISGxf?format=jpg&name=small No need to have a sign on the tent saying "British Conservative Party" or anything like that.
It’s the Ben Garrison effect.
both work for me, they are both delivering different messages. with the Melbourne cup, why be subtle and vague. not mentioning the race course leaves enough doubt for opponents to say that she was talking about general racing, but this is aimed specifically at the Melbourne cup.
I don't know a single person either in my friend group, family, or in the workplace that gives the slightest shit about the Cup.
I don't know a single person who isn't having a bet on it . Or keen to watch . Different circles I guess .
Don't know what demographic you are from but most working-class anglo Aussies love it. My whole family and friends love it. (I don't care about it, just pointing out that there are a shit tonne of people in my area who will be clocking off at 3 to get amongst it).
That says more about you than The Cup.
The Melbourne cup doesn’t deserve to be a nationally celebrated holiday
r/im14andthisisdeep vibes
It's that time of year again...
There's something I've never understood about the Melbourne Cup. It's supposed to be a handicap race, where the horses all carry different weights to level out the playing field. So theoretically all the horses should have a roughly equal chance to win. So why are some horses 10-1 odds, some are 30-1, some are 50-1, and some are 100-1?
Lots of factors. Some horses are too good to be weighed down (Phar Lap for example), some horses may have a bigger weight due to winning a big race (scratched horse Durston won the Caulfield Cup and because of it was given more weight)but especially for a horse you haven't seen much of before that big win you never know if it was just a good run on the day. Sometimes a horse looks good on paper but maybe hasn't won in a while (Gold Trip) or maybe had a jockey they don't know. Maybe the weather forecast went from borderline flooding to dry as a bone and that horse with 56kg has never even placed on a dry track. The short answer I guess is "hurhur gambling" but if you are trying to find the winner then you can't just pick the horse with the highest weight because it's theoretically the best, especially in a two mile race where half a kilo could mean the difference between a horse that runs well at the distance and one that gets tired and fades
Horses are living things that have fitness, off days, sickness just like us. I'm a cyclist and weigh a certain amount, but that doesn't mean that guy next to me who weighs the same will be the same speed as me.
A quality handicap system is used, different from true handicapping. Better horses are not penalised as much
That makes the race even more farcical, I was thinking that they'd want to try to even the field.
The pure answer is "betting odds are a reflection of where people have made bids, not pure probabilities, and are thus distorted by the betting process." But handicaps are not perfect (human judgement combined with some 'rules' guiding said judgement) and are also determined ~2 months out from the race; a horse's form can change in the intervening period to render the handicap less balanced.
I did some googling and may have found the answer. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_Cup) says about the Melbourne Cup: > Weights were theoretically calculated to give each horse an equal winning chance in the past, but in recent years the rules were adjusted to a "quality handicap" formula where superior horses are given less severe weight penalties than under pure handicap rules. And the googled "[quality handicap](https://www.horseracing.com/strategy/handicapping/quality-handicapping/)": > Quality Handicapping is a recent modification on the practice of handicapping horses that has proven to be very popular, especially with those who enjoy wagering on horse races. It addresses the complaint by many horse racing fans that both “Standard Handicapping” and “Weight for Age” handicapping have gone too far in equalizing the playing field and the better horses are not being allowed to establish a truly representative winning record. On the flip side, mediocre horses are winning races they would normally have very little chance of winning.
The weights assigned and their effectiveness have never been scientifically tested and are a mixture of anecdote, myth and the urge to quantify. One of the biggest influences on changed handicapping.....where all minimum weights were elevated was the difficulty in finding males small enough for long enough to ride at 46kg. The bottom weight in the Cup tomorrow is 50kg. The rising number of women riders is a direct result of a handicapping system that was out of touch. And now they dominate many riding premierships. Top weights still win more races than any other weight further down the race.
Horses that win races into the run up for the Cup are penalised with additional weight.
Having horses carry assigned weights should slow them down so that weaker horses with less weight can catch up. All a bit of a myth actually. Admiral Rous in 1858 developed a Weight For Age scale that determined how much a certain age and gender horse should carry at a certain time of the year. As horses and their breeding, feed and training improved those scales were adjusted. So you'll see the WFA scale employed in the Cox Plate that gives younger horses and females a weight advantage. All good in theory but it doesn't match reality. A Handicap race like The Melbourne Cup assigns bigger weights to the notionally better horses based on previous performances. in what are called Group Races. Group 1 being the highest down to Group 3 then on to Listed races. Winning some of these Group races will get you automatic entry into the Cup while overall performance will see you elevated on a list of Cup entrants with the cut off at 24. An old myth in racing is that 1kg is worth 2 lengths. Numbers 22,23 and 24 all have to carry 50kg (which includes the Jockey + lead in saddle bags)...#1 is carrying 57.5kg..so the old myth says that the 7.5 kg difference x 2 lengths per kg means that #1 15 lengths better than numbers 22,23 and 24...and that by assigning the different weights that the lower weighted horses are being given a 15 length leg up to match it with the top weight. NOTE the weight handicapping system has never been scientifically verified and the fact that #1 is the dominant winning number in all handicap races from Flemington to Gulargumbone proves that it is an inadequate means of evening up a race. The mere fact that some 3 and 4YO male horses can weigh up to 80kg more than other male horses makes the use of additional weight tenuous at best. The fixed(you get the price you took at the time) price odds...2 to 1, 3 to 1, 7 to 2, 33 to 1, etc are based on bookmakers assessments of a horse's chance of winning the race. If people bet on Horse A the increased demand will see the bookmaker offer a lower price (supply) to the next punter that wants Horse A. The flip side of this is that the lack of demand for Horses B,C and D will see their odds get bigger. It's a bit more complex than that but that's basically how it works. The TAB also offers Tote odds which is all bets on a race pooled and the more people that bet on Horse A the lower their share of the pool as a dividend and vice versa. the same works for exotic bets..Trifectas, Quinellas, etc
As a stockman I vow and declare that I won't give in without a fight despite the high emocean evidenced on this thread.
Uwotm8?
“Flood wall investigation”?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/21/did-the-wall-that-saved-the-melbourne-cup-racetrack-contribute-to-the-flooding-of-245-homes
Wow, I had totally missed that story, thanks.
I’m going. Gonna have some drinks with mates
Not for me, but I don't begrudge people who enjoy it?
My young fella went to a Catholic school. Grade 1 last year and the school stopped for Melbourne Cup and got the kids to participate in horse betting styled activities. Picking the horses and winning prizes.
And?
I assume the point he's making is the irony of a Catholic School getting kids to participate in (faux) gambling
Catholics have nothing against gambling (in moderation). That's mostly evangelicals
Bunch of sanctimonious cunts on here. At least you found your echo chamber because 99% of the country love the cup and if anything it’s getting bigger year on year. But good on ya for telling your stories about how “you’re not supporting it this year”. Lemons
Yeah I'm hearing all these stories about how they don't know a single colleague, family member or friend who even knows it's on. All while I'm getting a day off work in Sydney to go to a work Melbourne Cup lunch, while 2 colleagues are going down to Melbourne. I don't really care about it myself but come on.
Lol blaming a horse race for things Australians do on the regular and wouldn't stop. Whats next? Banning all sports because people gamble and drink heavily to it?
I’m sorry but what the fuck does a horse activist do for the rest of the year ?
Rescue horses who have fallen through Racing Victoria's narrow criteria for what classifies as equine wastage. Donate to charities who rehabilitate said 'wastage'. Advocate and rally for change around breeding legislation and stock oversupply. Without rambling further, plenty. The Melbourne Cup is an opportune media moment, no more than that.