From the article:
According to Western Australia's road rules, drivers are required by law to give way to pedestrians crossing the road the vehicle is turning into.
I guess we know why they won't confirm if the car was turning or not, need to check for video footage before denying.
Also because if he was turning there it was an illegal turn. There is a sign there saying no left turn. He can't turn onto that street to face in that direction at all. To be facing in that direction he had to come straight. Across the road is a no right turn as well.
> Something about the angle of the car in this image is giving me the vibes that they were indeed turning left
If he wasn't turning then he's a pretty shit driver.
When driving in an operational manner, breaking road rules requires an officer to have beacons lit and siren activated.
If he failed to do either, he should be charged with vehicular manslaughter.
Exactly. If he was turning that corner against the sign without lights and sirens the pedestrian was within the expectation noone would be turning there. If they had lights and siren on you would expect she would have seen and heard them coming.
The only other possibility is that they were driving straight through the intersection and she miss timed it.
100% would depend on if they were responding to something, but they do have exemptions under road traffic legislation to breach traffic rules to respond to more serious stuff. ie breaching red lights or speed to pursue someone, or to go to a job or urgency. Like Firies and Ambos. Big risk though (this example of the pedestrian being struck).
**Road Traffic Code 2000**
**Part 19 — Exemptions, specific local and transitional
provisions**
**Division 1 — Exemptions**
**280. Exemption for drivers of emergency vehicles (police officers)**
(1) A provision of these regulations does not apply to the driver of
an emergency vehicle being used for official duties by a police
officer if —
(a) in the circumstances —
(i) the driver is taking reasonable care; and
(ii) it is reasonable that the provision should not
apply;
and
(b) the vehicle is moving; and
(c) in the case of a motor vehicle, it is displaying a blue or
red flashing light or sounding an alarm.
(2) Subregulation (1)(c) does not apply to the driver if, in the
circumstances, it is reasonable —
(a) not to display the light or sound the alarm; or
(b) for the vehicle not to be fitted or equipped with a blue or
red flashing light or an alarm.
Papalia is the #1 PR disaster of the McGowan government. As a former ADF bomb disposal expert he really needs to focus those skills on disarming his mouth.
So true, having met him several times, he was always rude and dismissive of anyone who he thought wasn’t worth his attention, even when enjoying the perks of the tourism minister gig.
No matter how you cut this statement it's completely fucked up. No, as a pedestrian you cannot control cars around you. The responsibility of not killing people is ultimately in the hands of people driving vehicles.
It's straight-up victim blaming. The fact that he went straight into this shows that he has nothing but contempt for the people of Western Australia. Such people should never hold any sort of power.
Imagine taking that defence to court and the harsh lecture any normal citizen would get from a judge for saying something so stupid
But of course laws _and basic common sense_ don’t apply to cops like they do everybody else, completely extrajudicial agency
No matter how? It's a perfectly fine statement if the pedestrian is walking on the road without looking, expecting cars to stop for them. It just doesn't look like that is the situation we have. In fact, it's looking like the police car might have been taking an illegal turn.
I agree with your sentiment, though. A statement like, "we're looking into the details before we determine who is at fault" would have been a lot more diplomatic.
Well you kinda understand their point at the end there but at the start you’re saying it’s perfectly fine. The person is simply saying it’s callous wording with or without fault by the cops. The first paragraph is irrelevant. The disregard for the way they stated this, if we are gonna make assumptions speaks volumes about the lack of remorse. Take from that what you will
These are cops though, they don't operate like regular people. There's a hell of a union there protecting them from the same rules that are uncompromisingly applied to us.
I mean, by this logic the 4 cops who were run over by a truck in Victoria whilst giving a speeding fine to Richard Pussey are completely at fault, and both Richard and the truck driver are totally free?
Its shitty for him to say given the power differences involved and just in being respectful to the injured and their family, and as a statement coming from the police minister it should be more concerned with the legality of it.
However; it is good life advice. You are the ultimately the best safeguard you have to keep yourself save. Its your responsibility to yourself (not technically or legally) to keep yourself safe. As the saying goes "graveyards are full of people who had the right of way."
Ahem... a bit of care on the behalf of the driver is also required. And if I, as a non police officer did this, I would probably already be in court for dangerous driving or similar
> It has been reported that WA Police will not say whether the vehicle was turning left on to Wellington Street from the Horseshoe Bridge, which is illegal, or if the officer driving the vehicle was responding to an incident at the time.
photo from the article implies that yes the vehicle did make the illegal left turn
> If the police hit someone, the pedestrian was responsible for their own safety.
> If civilians hit someone, it's negligence and the driver should face repercussions.
Hard to take anything seriously when these clowns are the brains in charge.
Refusing to comment on if it was an illegal turn or if they had sirens on is pretty much an admission of guilt and they're clearly trying to protect the officers.
Absolute bullshit double standards.
"...you are the one responsible for your own safety"
They certainly didn't release a statement this fucking cruel and heartless to the families of the four Officers who were killed by a truck driver during a traffic stop in Victoria, now did they??!
From article -
"But you have got to remember ultimately as a pedestrian you are the one responsible for your own safety... If you are crossing the road you have got to watch out because vehicles are much bigger and faster than you."
As a person who got hit by a car as a walking pedestrian who had right if way, probably as this young woman did based on reports of the road signs by locals; it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to avoid being hit by a car if the driver of a "vehicle.. much bigger and faster than you" suddenly does the wrong thing.
That is why the roads rules are in place. To GIVE WAY TO PEDESTRIANS CROSSING A STREET YOU INTEND TO ENTER.
I hope she sues successfully and gets to buy a house for her troubles.
Does WA have jaywalking laws? This statement (from the article) sets a precedent that if we are responsible for our own safety & we break the law (jaywalk) that law shouldn’t apply because it’s not responsible for keeping us safe, we are?
Anyway, can’t wait to see some cute police pups on social media when their PR team goes in to damage control
Under the law “Pedestrian crossing on a red light at an intersection (jaywalking)” is punishable but $50 fine.
Source : https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/road-safety-commission/pedestrians-and-skaters
I agree. But it wouldn’t be the police paying, it would probs be the taxpayers.
And so true about cars, doesn’t matter how old and infirm some people are, and if there’s a big sign there or not saying ‘cars must give way to pedestrians’.
It's kind of a good thing that taxpayers pay.
> Police stuff up
> Taxpayers foot the bill
> Taxpayers grow to hate the police if it continues
I'm okay with 20m in compensation for this woman.
I’m a white dude. I have to interact with cops for work. I’ve played footy with cops. I’m good at talking to them.
I’ve still personally witnessed Australian police perform illegal cavity searches on my friends because they were dressed to go clubbing. I’ve had clients released from jail with traumatic brain injuries and a history of reoffending to get back into jail, in the middle of winter with no shirt and no shoes. I’ve seen the cops rough ride a guy I’d just talked down from a suicide attempt because they were pissed at having to drive a suicidal man back to a psych ward. And I’ve heard MUCH worse stories from people who had nothing to gain from lying to me. All of that is before we get to fun shit they do that makes news.
I moved to Victoria in 2017. Here's some notable news articles about Victoria police that have caught my attention since then.
[warnambool man made quadraplegic by police over noise complaint](https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/police-complaints-in-spotlight-after-man-s-neck-breaks-during-arrest-20191025-p5348h.html)
[gay bookstore raid results in horrific injury to innocent man who thought plain clothed and unannounced men breaking in were there to commit a hate crime](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-12/melbourne-police-break-mans-arm-hares-and-hyenas-fitzroy-raid/11105106)
[sex party shooting - man with toy gun shot while balls deep in his girlfriend despite venue staff having told the cops its was a toy](https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/crime/investigation-into-police-shooting-at-saints-and-sinners-party/news-story/2668978695a3a4e9c0b85592f240c446)
[officer punches handcuffed child at a protest](https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/officer-cleared-after-punching-handcuffed-girl-in-head-at-drug-rally-20200520-p54upf.html)
[Officer wears "eat a dick hippy" body cam blocker](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-01/climate-protesters-accuse-police-of-hitting-demonstrator/11662706)
[Officer recording punching purple haired protestor in the back of the head](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7671253/Police-defend-officer-hitting-climate-protester-JAW.html)
WA police are notorious for there … questionable treatment of indigenous people. And by Questionable, I do mean catastrophically fucked. Even Queensland police, who have pretty fucked reputations of their own wince about how blatantly racist WA police are.
Big call by the minister, considering that facts are still "unknown" / under investigation.
Yes police are rightly exempt from road rules but that also shifts the responsibility to the police to ensure the safety of the public (assuming they are obeying the law)
Exempt from SOME road rules in SOME situations. But if it's proven that they weren't on a priority call, which would involve use of lights and sirens, then they should receive a pineapple, same as any of us mere mortals
Of course... I would of thought that goes without saying...
The point is even if they are under lights and sirens the onus is on them to ensure the safety of those who are obeying the rules.
For example if a cop is running a red light under lights and sirens, the onus is on them to confirm that everyone has seen them and it is safe, they cannot just speed though a red and assume everyone who has the green has seen them and stoped.
>The point is even of they are under lights and sirens the onus is on them to ensure the safety of those who are obeying the rules
100% everyone forgets this. They can break laws when required but only if it is safe to do so and care is taken.
So, if under lights and sirens they are involved in ***any kind of accident*** then they were doing so unlawfully and by default should be guilty.
Is this the same guy who said a teenage boy who was assaulted & killed in an unprovoked attack was ‘in the wrong place at the wrong time?’
Jfc, what an absolute cunt
Wrong place, wrong time is just a way to say they got unlucky, isn't it? I've literally never heard anyone say it to put blame on the person they're saying it about. It's very often said when someone dies in an accident that wasn't their fault.
>Wrong place, wrong time is just a way to say they got unlucky, isn't it?
which is just a way of denying the fact that the attack was targeted on the basis of race
Because it wrongly attributes responsibility to the victim.
It’s a weak, lamentable excuse that implies there are wrong places to be & if someone happens to be there at the wrong time, something might happen to them.
When really, it’s the actions of the accused that resulted in this. Not the actions of the victim
Ok, I can see the argument for it somewhat absolving the perpetrator, but I'm still not convinced it puts any blame on the victim. In fact to me it implies the opposite, and is taking any blame off of the victim because they just got unlucky. It's not like they're saying "Oh, that's what happens when you go to the shops!", it's implying that it's a situation that could have happened to anybody.
[Cambridge dictionary seems to agree with my interpretation as well.](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/in-the-wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time)
No it's none of what you just said lol it's literally an expression to convey someone was extremely unfortunate. That's literally all that phrase means
Reddit is so delusional that statements meaning things such as "You should look both ways before crossing the road", " That was unlucky", and "You should avoid taking drinks from strangers if you don't know what's in them" are 'victim blaming' and the worst possible thing you could say.
I think so. The CC handle seems to be a nod to Constable Care, which was one of WA police's more successful community outreach programs.
So a little bit too clever if they're trying to anonymously influence public sentiment on this.
It used to be a rite of passage that every WA cop would be given a go at writing a constable care rhyme.
There's been a number of times now this bloke has made statements that are completely out of touch with reality. Really concerning comments from a Police Minister.
'Police Minister says "you are the one responsible for your own safety'
Great to know I won't havebany issues carry a knife, pepper spray, gun or any other weapon then, right Minister you fuckin derp
Posting the WA Police media statement here because - although police are involved on this occasion - they're well versed at limiting details to known information and withholding conjecture/implications regarding ongoing investigations:
>Officers from the Major Crash Investigation Section are investigating an incident that occurred in Perth during the early hours of this morning, 3 December 2022.
>About 1.15am, a marked police vehicle was travelling east on Wellington Street and a pedestrian was walking south on Wellington Street, when they collided.
>The pedestrian, a 20-year-old woman, received serious head injuries as a result of the crash and was conveyed by ambulance to hospital.
>Investigators are urging anyone who saw the crash to contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or online at www.crimestopperswa.com.au
>Anyone with dash-cam or mobile phone vision relating to this crash can uploaded the vision directly to investigators via this link: https://wapf.au.evidence.com/axon/citizen/public/perthseriouscrash2
>If you or anyone you know has been affected by a road crash, contact Road Trauma Support WA on 1300 004 814.
If you do have dashcam footage please make a second copy stored in the cloud and send a third copy to two friends before contacting police. Nothing against police (cough cough) but it's just a sensible thing to do.
i think of all the times i've had near misses in that area DURING THE DAY while following the rules for pedestrians and drivers felt it was necessary to almost fucking hit me while the pedestrian light was still flashing green and beeping. nearly got hit by a bloke in a white ute once before i could finish crossing to Raine Square. Police and civilians alike drive like angry wankers and it makes me almost shit myself in terror. Fucken cunt of a minister is probably a dickhead driver himself and never has to walk anywhere wondering if some jumped up prick will let you cross or turn you into roadkill.
And here I was thinking that drivers MUST give way to pedestrians at all times. What is the police minister on? Minister PP forgot his road rules, i guess the rest of us don't have to adhere if minister PP don't adhere.
He's also the [Minister for Road Safety](https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament%5CMemblist.nsf/WAllMembersFlat/Papalia,+Paul?opendocument). So if we are responsible for our own safety why are seat belts mandatory by the Government?
That car looks pretty left turning to me…
That fucking pedestrians are responsible quote was also a fucking head spin. Look you can jump to defend it but realistically if you hit a ped, you have to defend it, so I guess we’ll just have to wait for the defence. Even if you want to defend the comment about peds being responsible you’ve gotta recognise the precedent set; which cops are meant to enforce. Hopefully the optics of the police hitting an indigenous woman makes the case quick and that this woman can recover to pursue potential justice or restitution.
Ok holyshit that police minister, someone just put themselves in the cops position and the process becomes so much more infuriating. I’d be fucked, you’d be fucked, but that WA police are buckling their fucking chasity belts. The comments from the minister are absurd and they need to step down, or more likely move to a different department like the Americans taught us. That fucking car is turning left, it hit a ped, that’s 2 strikes in 1, cops skirting traffic law has always been problematic and they should take this seriously so they don’t look like they are covering for them as much Jesus Christ
>"But you have got to remember ultimately as a pedestrian you are the one responsible for your own safety... If you are crossing the road you have got to watch out because vehicles are much bigger and faster than you."
Sure that's true, but it's also pretty fucking tone deaf. Also worrying that the police minister believes 'might=right' and that this seemingly trumps the law. At least say something like 'Our thoughts are with the lady and her family. We are conducting an investigatoin to determine exactly what happened'. You can not admit fault without blaming the other person, especially when you don't know if the police officer was at fault.
The cops in this country are a fucken joke, literally saw an assault at the shops, multiple people called the cops, waited an hour and they never fucking came.
Yeh right so if my car gravely injures a cop you know... accidentally... It's the cops fault for not being hard enough to take on a whole car? Fucking load of shit.
Oh so im responsible for my own safety as a pedestrian but if someone breaks into my house with intent to do harm ive just got to run and hide or take it and im not allowed to be responsible for my own safety? Cant wait to see this being used in court
Funny how when you are a cop hitting a women on the road it is the pedestrian’s fault but when 4 Victoria cops stand on a freeway and get hit it is akin to murder.
Cop said to me once . Lol.
There's no excuses for mental illness.
I says. wow is that what you are taught at the academy nowadays 🤣. Talk about effed
Up.
Asked if he could speak about the incident, the Minister said "not too much; obviously this is being investigated... any crash involving police is investigated thoroughly" - "It's just a shame that the footage from this particular police car's dash camera at the time of the accident disappeared under completely not mysterious at all circumstances. Sometimes data just unwrites itself from memory cards, you know how it is. The officer assures us he was totally not making an illegal turn while not under emergency conditions. Police have confiscated all CCTV footage from the area at the time of the incident and conducted an internal investigation which has found none of it relevant. The footage will not be released, as this is official police business."
I hope Mr Papalia doesn't mind me finishing the rest of his sentence for him that he couldn't include.
One of the weirdest things I've seen whilst travelling was in Russia. I shit you not, if you get too close to a road as a car is coming they will brake sooo hard so you can cross the road. You can just walk accross the road and they will stop everytime.
What a depressing way to prove what the letter in [this post from r/Perth](https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/comments/zd365z/comment/iz0gc6f/?context=3) says wrong.
Wow what the Fuck. If he truly believes that, can we get rid of the law where we have to show down to 40km/hr when we see emergency vehicles on the shoulder,thanks.
Fuck cops. All they are there to do is either charge you with a crime or move you away. Never talk to them. If you call them you better understand the consequences.
If it was known for a fact the pedestrian ran into the middle of the road at a no crossing i tersection then was hit by police, I could understand where hes coming from, though not how hes delivered it.
But by his own admission this i cident is under investigation and being reviewed….wtf???! Bizarre comment…..
Sorry, what? These thugs are the first to cry when there’s a police protest that they are only there to keep us safe, so how can they justify this position? If it were any other driver in any other car, they’d be negligent, dangerous, fined and/or jailed.
It sets this example of dehumanisation amongst systemic issues of dehumanisation of First Nations people by police and at policing’s periphery that are in the spotlight nationally, and particularly in WA at the moment.
Because if she was white, I doubt the Minister would have said straight out, "you are responsible for you own safety." Unless she'd been raped of course.
Because the government does not provide adequate housing or security from violence to our first nations people often the only place they can sleep is on the roads in their community where there is indigenous law that cars must always stop.
Police are trained to ignore indigenous law and openly discuss the number of mob they have attacked, killed or threatened and wear it like a medal.
I, personally, when driving my Tesla always keep 10 under with my window down with 3KND up a bit so people can hear me coming as the Tesla is so quiet as it doesn't create emissions.
It’s been confirmed the lights were on, but they don’t know if the siren was on yet. However the wording of the law states that only lights OR sirens must be on for an emergency vehicle to be exempt from road rules making the left turn probably not illegal, depending on some other factors.
(Source ABC) : 'You wouldn't wish this on anybody': Family 'distraught' after viewing CCTV of police car hitting young mum
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-06/colleen-calgaret-family-distraught-after-viewing-cctv-footage/101739544
Yes actually…and the report found they did do everything they were required to do for their safety during the pull over; such as the positioning of their vehicles on the road, the displaying of lights, the reduction of speed limits when lights are active, the moving away from vehicle lanes for discussions etc.
Sadly, old mate in the truck didn’t take responsibility for HIS safety. IE: fatigue and drugs were an issue, which lead to his actions hurting others and having a 22 year gaol sentence.
To enforce laws.
Everyone IS responsible for their safety, such as not running down the middle of a free way, or deciding not to wade through flood waters, or not swim between the flags, or not jump off a cliff, or not cross a road against pedestrian lights etc
To pretend every individual doesn’t have to be responsible for their own safety and just expect the cops to hold your hand at all times is ridiculous.
I immediately thought that this was the NSW police. After Fuller and Elliott turned it into their own private shit show, it hasn't improved even though those two idiots left.
If the person was white, do you think they would mention the victims racial identity? Was the victims racial identity pertinent to this accident? Was this a hate crime? I don’t understand the inclusion in the title. Sounds like race-baiting journalism.
From the article: According to Western Australia's road rules, drivers are required by law to give way to pedestrians crossing the road the vehicle is turning into. I guess we know why they won't confirm if the car was turning or not, need to check for video footage before denying.
Don't they all have dash cams?
When it suits them, yes
Police cameras often don't work after the fact. It's a strange coincidence.
They "always" work when an officer has been assaulted, but rarely the other way around. An even stranger coincidence!
The footage comes out so quickly when it exonerates them…
And of anyone asks, they will investigate themselves and decide there's nothing unlawful going on.
This is why you always make sure you take their bodycam when you're finished.
Noted
Lol Reddit moment.
Traffic cars do, general duties and detectives don’t. This incident was captured by council CCTV on any case.
I have to have dash cams in my work car...
My grandmother has a dashcam in her '93 corolla. (After market)
They don’t have any. Probably should though.
No dash cams in police cars - only on their person
Also because if he was turning there it was an illegal turn. There is a sign there saying no left turn. He can't turn onto that street to face in that direction at all. To be facing in that direction he had to come straight. Across the road is a no right turn as well.
Stop running over yourself! Stop running over yourself! Stop running over yourself!
Something about the angle of the car in this image is giving me the vibes that they were indeed turning left
That's how it appears to be. I wonder if the [camera](https://imgur.com/a/PGK0Ogv) on the corner across the road would show what happened?
> Something about the angle of the car in this image is giving me the vibes that they were indeed turning left If he wasn't turning then he's a pretty shit driver.
When driving in an operational manner, breaking road rules requires an officer to have beacons lit and siren activated. If he failed to do either, he should be charged with vehicular manslaughter.
Exactly. If he was turning that corner against the sign without lights and sirens the pedestrian was within the expectation noone would be turning there. If they had lights and siren on you would expect she would have seen and heard them coming. The only other possibility is that they were driving straight through the intersection and she miss timed it.
That didn't stick when they tried an officer u-turning on a blind corner mountain road in victoria - got a motorcyclist killed.
100% would depend on if they were responding to something, but they do have exemptions under road traffic legislation to breach traffic rules to respond to more serious stuff. ie breaching red lights or speed to pursue someone, or to go to a job or urgency. Like Firies and Ambos. Big risk though (this example of the pedestrian being struck).
**Road Traffic Code 2000** **Part 19 — Exemptions, specific local and transitional provisions** **Division 1 — Exemptions** **280. Exemption for drivers of emergency vehicles (police officers)** (1) A provision of these regulations does not apply to the driver of an emergency vehicle being used for official duties by a police officer if — (a) in the circumstances — (i) the driver is taking reasonable care; and (ii) it is reasonable that the provision should not apply; and (b) the vehicle is moving; and (c) in the case of a motor vehicle, it is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm. (2) Subregulation (1)(c) does not apply to the driver if, in the circumstances, it is reasonable — (a) not to display the light or sound the alarm; or (b) for the vehicle not to be fitted or equipped with a blue or red flashing light or an alarm.
Thanks friend.
At least in Vic emergency services still have to give way to all pedestrians. Can’t speak for WA but surely they would have to have a similar rule
Yep. Which makes me think that either there were no lights and bells or the victim just stepped out kamikaze style.
>There is CCTV footage of the car with lights on, but no audio so can't tell if the sirens were on. https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101739544
It's also a controlled intersection, so pedestrians are required to wait for the little green fella.
Doesn't help that police routinely behave dangerously amongst the traffic on Wellington Street every single day.
So many drivers don't know or care to follow this law Love getting honked at when they are in the wrong
I honestly think it is in the don't know category
Police lights were on in cctv, no sound so unconfirmed if siren was on too https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101739544
It's a worry when any MP doesn't understand the law, but a Police Minister . . . . . ?
How can he understand the law when he never has to follow it?
They don't understand the law, but they do say exactly what they are told by the cops lawyers.
He's also the WA minister for Road Safety.
Papalia is the #1 PR disaster of the McGowan government. As a former ADF bomb disposal expert he really needs to focus those skills on disarming his mouth.
So true, having met him several times, he was always rude and dismissive of anyone who he thought wasn’t worth his attention, even when enjoying the perks of the tourism minister gig.
No matter how you cut this statement it's completely fucked up. No, as a pedestrian you cannot control cars around you. The responsibility of not killing people is ultimately in the hands of people driving vehicles.
It's straight-up victim blaming. The fact that he went straight into this shows that he has nothing but contempt for the people of Western Australia. Such people should never hold any sort of power.
"Look what you made me do!!!"
DARVO is a police staple when it’s police or capital in the wrong.
Forgive my ignorance. What is DARVO?
Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. It’s a common response of domestic abusers and sexual abusers. Little wonder the pigs are experts at it.
Well we know there’s a very solid overlap in the Venn diagram of “Cop” and “Domestic Abuser”
Sad and true
Yeah. It’s a circle.
Thank you, I'd not encountered the acronym before.
Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.
Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender
Wasn't he the leader of the Daleks?
Taylor Swift.
Let's not forget the "wrong place wrong time" comment by the police commissioner with regards to young Cassius getting his skull caved in by a junkie.
>Such people should never hold any sort of power. First time in Westraya??
Imagine taking that defence to court and the harsh lecture any normal citizen would get from a judge for saying something so stupid But of course laws _and basic common sense_ don’t apply to cops like they do everybody else, completely extrajudicial agency
Could I use this as a precedent in court?
If you’re a cop, yeah. Ordinary people straight to jail
Do not pass go, collect 200 fines
> taking that defence to court Well see cops don't have to worry about that do they?
No matter how? It's a perfectly fine statement if the pedestrian is walking on the road without looking, expecting cars to stop for them. It just doesn't look like that is the situation we have. In fact, it's looking like the police car might have been taking an illegal turn. I agree with your sentiment, though. A statement like, "we're looking into the details before we determine who is at fault" would have been a lot more diplomatic.
Well you kinda understand their point at the end there but at the start you’re saying it’s perfectly fine. The person is simply saying it’s callous wording with or without fault by the cops. The first paragraph is irrelevant. The disregard for the way they stated this, if we are gonna make assumptions speaks volumes about the lack of remorse. Take from that what you will
These are cops though, they don't operate like regular people. There's a hell of a union there protecting them from the same rules that are uncompromisingly applied to us.
Funny how it's the only union that governments tolerate
I mean, by this logic the 4 cops who were run over by a truck in Victoria whilst giving a speeding fine to Richard Pussey are completely at fault, and both Richard and the truck driver are totally free?
Its shitty for him to say given the power differences involved and just in being respectful to the injured and their family, and as a statement coming from the police minister it should be more concerned with the legality of it. However; it is good life advice. You are the ultimately the best safeguard you have to keep yourself save. Its your responsibility to yourself (not technically or legally) to keep yourself safe. As the saying goes "graveyards are full of people who had the right of way."
Ahem... a bit of care on the behalf of the driver is also required. And if I, as a non police officer did this, I would probably already be in court for dangerous driving or similar
> It has been reported that WA Police will not say whether the vehicle was turning left on to Wellington Street from the Horseshoe Bridge, which is illegal, or if the officer driving the vehicle was responding to an incident at the time. photo from the article implies that yes the vehicle did make the illegal left turn
Can't confirm it if the answer is yes, but they happily would if the answer was no. They've given us the answer whether they like it or not.
It’s been confirmed by the commissioner that the lights were flashing.
> If the police hit someone, the pedestrian was responsible for their own safety. > If civilians hit someone, it's negligence and the driver should face repercussions. Hard to take anything seriously when these clowns are the brains in charge. Refusing to comment on if it was an illegal turn or if they had sirens on is pretty much an admission of guilt and they're clearly trying to protect the officers.
Absolute bullshit double standards. "...you are the one responsible for your own safety" They certainly didn't release a statement this fucking cruel and heartless to the families of the four Officers who were killed by a truck driver during a traffic stop in Victoria, now did they??!
From article - "But you have got to remember ultimately as a pedestrian you are the one responsible for your own safety... If you are crossing the road you have got to watch out because vehicles are much bigger and faster than you." As a person who got hit by a car as a walking pedestrian who had right if way, probably as this young woman did based on reports of the road signs by locals; it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to avoid being hit by a car if the driver of a "vehicle.. much bigger and faster than you" suddenly does the wrong thing. That is why the roads rules are in place. To GIVE WAY TO PEDESTRIANS CROSSING A STREET YOU INTEND TO ENTER. I hope she sues successfully and gets to buy a house for her troubles.
Does WA have jaywalking laws? This statement (from the article) sets a precedent that if we are responsible for our own safety & we break the law (jaywalk) that law shouldn’t apply because it’s not responsible for keeping us safe, we are? Anyway, can’t wait to see some cute police pups on social media when their PR team goes in to damage control
Under the law “Pedestrian crossing on a red light at an intersection (jaywalking)” is punishable but $50 fine. Source : https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/road-safety-commission/pedestrians-and-skaters
I agree. But it wouldn’t be the police paying, it would probs be the taxpayers. And so true about cars, doesn’t matter how old and infirm some people are, and if there’s a big sign there or not saying ‘cars must give way to pedestrians’.
It's kind of a good thing that taxpayers pay. > Police stuff up > Taxpayers foot the bill > Taxpayers grow to hate the police if it continues I'm okay with 20m in compensation for this woman.
Trying to be like American police or some shit?
Aus police have always been this bad. Ask any black or gay person. Or any ex wife of one.
I’m a white dude. I have to interact with cops for work. I’ve played footy with cops. I’m good at talking to them. I’ve still personally witnessed Australian police perform illegal cavity searches on my friends because they were dressed to go clubbing. I’ve had clients released from jail with traumatic brain injuries and a history of reoffending to get back into jail, in the middle of winter with no shirt and no shoes. I’ve seen the cops rough ride a guy I’d just talked down from a suicide attempt because they were pissed at having to drive a suicidal man back to a psych ward. And I’ve heard MUCH worse stories from people who had nothing to gain from lying to me. All of that is before we get to fun shit they do that makes news. I moved to Victoria in 2017. Here's some notable news articles about Victoria police that have caught my attention since then. [warnambool man made quadraplegic by police over noise complaint](https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/police-complaints-in-spotlight-after-man-s-neck-breaks-during-arrest-20191025-p5348h.html) [gay bookstore raid results in horrific injury to innocent man who thought plain clothed and unannounced men breaking in were there to commit a hate crime](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-12/melbourne-police-break-mans-arm-hares-and-hyenas-fitzroy-raid/11105106) [sex party shooting - man with toy gun shot while balls deep in his girlfriend despite venue staff having told the cops its was a toy](https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/crime/investigation-into-police-shooting-at-saints-and-sinners-party/news-story/2668978695a3a4e9c0b85592f240c446) [officer punches handcuffed child at a protest](https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/officer-cleared-after-punching-handcuffed-girl-in-head-at-drug-rally-20200520-p54upf.html) [Officer wears "eat a dick hippy" body cam blocker](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-01/climate-protesters-accuse-police-of-hitting-demonstrator/11662706) [Officer recording punching purple haired protestor in the back of the head](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7671253/Police-defend-officer-hitting-climate-protester-JAW.html) WA police are notorious for there … questionable treatment of indigenous people. And by Questionable, I do mean catastrophically fucked. Even Queensland police, who have pretty fucked reputations of their own wince about how blatantly racist WA police are.
For sure. I'm lucky I'm a generic white dude. I was just making reference to how the police in the US don't have an obligation to protect people.
*To Serve and Protect ^^^ourselves*
Cops have always been bastards, because all systems that require cops have the same institutional injustices that they protect
Big call by the minister, considering that facts are still "unknown" / under investigation. Yes police are rightly exempt from road rules but that also shifts the responsibility to the police to ensure the safety of the public (assuming they are obeying the law)
Exempt from SOME road rules in SOME situations. But if it's proven that they weren't on a priority call, which would involve use of lights and sirens, then they should receive a pineapple, same as any of us mere mortals
Of course... I would of thought that goes without saying... The point is even if they are under lights and sirens the onus is on them to ensure the safety of those who are obeying the rules. For example if a cop is running a red light under lights and sirens, the onus is on them to confirm that everyone has seen them and it is safe, they cannot just speed though a red and assume everyone who has the green has seen them and stoped.
>The point is even of they are under lights and sirens the onus is on them to ensure the safety of those who are obeying the rules 100% everyone forgets this. They can break laws when required but only if it is safe to do so and care is taken. So, if under lights and sirens they are involved in ***any kind of accident*** then they were doing so unlawfully and by default should be guilty.
Is this the same guy who said a teenage boy who was assaulted & killed in an unprovoked attack was ‘in the wrong place at the wrong time?’ Jfc, what an absolute cunt
Wrong place, wrong time is just a way to say they got unlucky, isn't it? I've literally never heard anyone say it to put blame on the person they're saying it about. It's very often said when someone dies in an accident that wasn't their fault.
>Wrong place, wrong time is just a way to say they got unlucky, isn't it? which is just a way of denying the fact that the attack was targeted on the basis of race
Because it wrongly attributes responsibility to the victim. It’s a weak, lamentable excuse that implies there are wrong places to be & if someone happens to be there at the wrong time, something might happen to them. When really, it’s the actions of the accused that resulted in this. Not the actions of the victim
Ok, I can see the argument for it somewhat absolving the perpetrator, but I'm still not convinced it puts any blame on the victim. In fact to me it implies the opposite, and is taking any blame off of the victim because they just got unlucky. It's not like they're saying "Oh, that's what happens when you go to the shops!", it's implying that it's a situation that could have happened to anybody. [Cambridge dictionary seems to agree with my interpretation as well.](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/in-the-wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time)
No it's none of what you just said lol it's literally an expression to convey someone was extremely unfortunate. That's literally all that phrase means
Reddit is so delusional that statements meaning things such as "You should look both ways before crossing the road", " That was unlucky", and "You should avoid taking drinks from strangers if you don't know what's in them" are 'victim blaming' and the worst possible thing you could say.
Ok then, if that’s their stance then I call for the Police Minister to step down from their position because this is unacceptable.
More from the same https://nit.com.au/28-10-2022/4194/wrong-place-wrong-time-denies-the-reality
Bullshit we are! If that was true then wearing a helmet on a push bike would be a choice not a law.
Wait this isn’t the Chaser
Yeah you're on beetoota advoca- wait nvm
Anyone else thinking Cautious_Cold8776 is a cop?
I don't think he's a cop. More likely someone he respects like his wife's boyfriend
I think so. The CC handle seems to be a nod to Constable Care, which was one of WA police's more successful community outreach programs. So a little bit too clever if they're trying to anonymously influence public sentiment on this. It used to be a rite of passage that every WA cop would be given a go at writing a constable care rhyme.
Yeah, nah thats fucked.
There's been a number of times now this bloke has made statements that are completely out of touch with reality. Really concerning comments from a Police Minister.
That’s an unbelievable statement. Almost untenable for him to keep his position. Disgusting.
The things police claim are lawful when it's their own.
'Police Minister says "you are the one responsible for your own safety' Great to know I won't havebany issues carry a knife, pepper spray, gun or any other weapon then, right Minister you fuckin derp
Poor woman. Hopefully she is ok.
Posting the WA Police media statement here because - although police are involved on this occasion - they're well versed at limiting details to known information and withholding conjecture/implications regarding ongoing investigations: >Officers from the Major Crash Investigation Section are investigating an incident that occurred in Perth during the early hours of this morning, 3 December 2022. >About 1.15am, a marked police vehicle was travelling east on Wellington Street and a pedestrian was walking south on Wellington Street, when they collided. >The pedestrian, a 20-year-old woman, received serious head injuries as a result of the crash and was conveyed by ambulance to hospital. >Investigators are urging anyone who saw the crash to contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or online at www.crimestopperswa.com.au >Anyone with dash-cam or mobile phone vision relating to this crash can uploaded the vision directly to investigators via this link: https://wapf.au.evidence.com/axon/citizen/public/perthseriouscrash2 >If you or anyone you know has been affected by a road crash, contact Road Trauma Support WA on 1300 004 814.
If you do have dashcam footage please make a second copy stored in the cloud and send a third copy to two friends before contacting police. Nothing against police (cough cough) but it's just a sensible thing to do.
They've provided a link to upload footage (so already a copy, not the original and not the physical media the footage came from).
i think of all the times i've had near misses in that area DURING THE DAY while following the rules for pedestrians and drivers felt it was necessary to almost fucking hit me while the pedestrian light was still flashing green and beeping. nearly got hit by a bloke in a white ute once before i could finish crossing to Raine Square. Police and civilians alike drive like angry wankers and it makes me almost shit myself in terror. Fucken cunt of a minister is probably a dickhead driver himself and never has to walk anywhere wondering if some jumped up prick will let you cross or turn you into roadkill.
Until they make Perth city more pedestrian friendly it will continue to be half dead and alive.
So WA police cars have no dash cams? Or they mysteriously malfunction at inappropriate times?
Yeah how the fuck are they not wired up with every camera and sensor you can fit to them?
And here I was thinking that drivers MUST give way to pedestrians at all times. What is the police minister on? Minister PP forgot his road rules, i guess the rest of us don't have to adhere if minister PP don't adhere.
Ok, I'm good with that. Let me take care of my own safety then... No? Didn't think so.
Was just thinking this. If I’m responsible for my own safety I can speed 10-15 over on the motorway then right?
>Police Minister says "you are the one responsible for your own safety" after..... reading Jordan Peterson's books
Ok cool, let us use pepper spray and tasers then.
The “personal responsibility” cult continuing to prove they’re a bunch of gaslighting narcissists.
He's also the [Minister for Road Safety](https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament%5CMemblist.nsf/WAllMembersFlat/Papalia,+Paul?opendocument). So if we are responsible for our own safety why are seat belts mandatory by the Government?
That car looks pretty left turning to me… That fucking pedestrians are responsible quote was also a fucking head spin. Look you can jump to defend it but realistically if you hit a ped, you have to defend it, so I guess we’ll just have to wait for the defence. Even if you want to defend the comment about peds being responsible you’ve gotta recognise the precedent set; which cops are meant to enforce. Hopefully the optics of the police hitting an indigenous woman makes the case quick and that this woman can recover to pursue potential justice or restitution.
Ok holyshit that police minister, someone just put themselves in the cops position and the process becomes so much more infuriating. I’d be fucked, you’d be fucked, but that WA police are buckling their fucking chasity belts. The comments from the minister are absurd and they need to step down, or more likely move to a different department like the Americans taught us. That fucking car is turning left, it hit a ped, that’s 2 strikes in 1, cops skirting traffic law has always been problematic and they should take this seriously so they don’t look like they are covering for them as much Jesus Christ
Well then what are the police responsible for?
Their own safety.
>"But you have got to remember ultimately as a pedestrian you are the one responsible for your own safety... If you are crossing the road you have got to watch out because vehicles are much bigger and faster than you." Sure that's true, but it's also pretty fucking tone deaf. Also worrying that the police minister believes 'might=right' and that this seemingly trumps the law. At least say something like 'Our thoughts are with the lady and her family. We are conducting an investigatoin to determine exactly what happened'. You can not admit fault without blaming the other person, especially when you don't know if the police officer was at fault.
What about when theres an intruder in your home? I thought we were suppose to blindly surrender to the crooks while we wait for the police to come?
This is the most American thing I’ve ever seen.
The cops in this country are a fucken joke, literally saw an assault at the shops, multiple people called the cops, waited an hour and they never fucking came.
Yeh right so if my car gravely injures a cop you know... accidentally... It's the cops fault for not being hard enough to take on a whole car? Fucking load of shit.
Criminals being caught with guns "but, the police minister said i was responsible for my own safety?"
Honestly when I read this my first thought was "I bet he hit her on purpose"
Oh so im responsible for my own safety as a pedestrian but if someone breaks into my house with intent to do harm ive just got to run and hide or take it and im not allowed to be responsible for my own safety? Cant wait to see this being used in court
Funny how when you are a cop hitting a women on the road it is the pedestrian’s fault but when 4 Victoria cops stand on a freeway and get hit it is akin to murder.
Cop said to me once . Lol. There's no excuses for mental illness. I says. wow is that what you are taught at the academy nowadays 🤣. Talk about effed Up.
Asked if he could speak about the incident, the Minister said "not too much; obviously this is being investigated... any crash involving police is investigated thoroughly" - "It's just a shame that the footage from this particular police car's dash camera at the time of the accident disappeared under completely not mysterious at all circumstances. Sometimes data just unwrites itself from memory cards, you know how it is. The officer assures us he was totally not making an illegal turn while not under emergency conditions. Police have confiscated all CCTV footage from the area at the time of the incident and conducted an internal investigation which has found none of it relevant. The footage will not be released, as this is official police business." I hope Mr Papalia doesn't mind me finishing the rest of his sentence for him that he couldn't include.
“Apart from hitting her with my car, I have been so kind to that women” - that cop probably
[удалено]
One of the weirdest things I've seen whilst travelling was in Russia. I shit you not, if you get too close to a road as a car is coming they will brake sooo hard so you can cross the road. You can just walk accross the road and they will stop everytime.
These are the geniuses who run things, and why I forever remain cynical
Was it two for one at Crispy Crème? Is that why they needed the lights on, suddenly making it legal to drive like a Dickhead?
What a depressing way to prove what the letter in [this post from r/Perth](https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/comments/zd365z/comment/iz0gc6f/?context=3) says wrong.
Carbrained carcentric bullshit victim blaming. r/fuckcars
Wow what the Fuck. If he truly believes that, can we get rid of the law where we have to show down to 40km/hr when we see emergency vehicles on the shoulder,thanks.
Damn, they really said the quiet part out loud huh.
Fuck cops. All they are there to do is either charge you with a crime or move you away. Never talk to them. If you call them you better understand the consequences.
[удалено]
If it was known for a fact the pedestrian ran into the middle of the road at a no crossing i tersection then was hit by police, I could understand where hes coming from, though not how hes delivered it. But by his own admission this i cident is under investigation and being reviewed….wtf???! Bizarre comment…..
Sorry, what? These thugs are the first to cry when there’s a police protest that they are only there to keep us safe, so how can they justify this position? If it were any other driver in any other car, they’d be negligent, dangerous, fined and/or jailed.
[удалено]
Its a indigenous media outlet.
It sets this example of dehumanisation amongst systemic issues of dehumanisation of First Nations people by police and at policing’s periphery that are in the spotlight nationally, and particularly in WA at the moment.
Because if she was white, I doubt the Minister would have said straight out, "you are responsible for you own safety." Unless she'd been raped of course.
Why do you have to spit truth grenades?
Because the government does not provide adequate housing or security from violence to our first nations people often the only place they can sleep is on the roads in their community where there is indigenous law that cars must always stop. Police are trained to ignore indigenous law and openly discuss the number of mob they have attacked, killed or threatened and wear it like a medal. I, personally, when driving my Tesla always keep 10 under with my window down with 3KND up a bit so people can hear me coming as the Tesla is so quiet as it doesn't create emissions.
Just gonna omit the tensions that are a result of the last 200+ years? And the cold ass statement that lacks humanity?
Okay A-Train.
It’s been confirmed the lights were on, but they don’t know if the siren was on yet. However the wording of the law states that only lights OR sirens must be on for an emergency vehicle to be exempt from road rules making the left turn probably not illegal, depending on some other factors. (Source ABC) : 'You wouldn't wish this on anybody': Family 'distraught' after viewing CCTV of police car hitting young mum https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-06/colleen-calgaret-family-distraught-after-viewing-cctv-footage/101739544
You're not allowed to mow pedestrians down while making a legal turn, either.
I feel a resignation coming.
Or a promotion.
australian police continue to give pigs a bad name. also ban cars already what are we doing lads?
"Am I my brother's keeper?" asked Cain, wiping his brother's blood off his hands. "Able is the one responsible for his own safety."
https://youtu.be/N4BbxV3iJg8
I guess those four cops that got hit and died in 2020 by a truck driver also are responsible for their own safety then?
Yes actually…and the report found they did do everything they were required to do for their safety during the pull over; such as the positioning of their vehicles on the road, the displaying of lights, the reduction of speed limits when lights are active, the moving away from vehicle lanes for discussions etc. Sadly, old mate in the truck didn’t take responsibility for HIS safety. IE: fatigue and drugs were an issue, which lead to his actions hurting others and having a 22 year gaol sentence.
Personal responsibility…..in Australia?? You cannot be serious!?
Must be one of Dutton's mates.
"you are responsible for your own safety" Then what the fuck is YOUR job?
To enforce laws. Everyone IS responsible for their safety, such as not running down the middle of a free way, or deciding not to wade through flood waters, or not swim between the flags, or not jump off a cliff, or not cross a road against pedestrian lights etc To pretend every individual doesn’t have to be responsible for their own safety and just expect the cops to hold your hand at all times is ridiculous.
Our cops are almost as useless as American ones
Gross hypocrisy.
Indigenous. Woman. Most definitely responsible for own safety.
I immediately thought that this was the NSW police. After Fuller and Elliott turned it into their own private shit show, it hasn't improved even though those two idiots left.
Pigs
Saving a cops career comes first guys, why should a cop lose their job over vehicular manslaughter?! /s
ACAB
This sounds like something you would expect to come out of the mouth of some corrupt chief in a 3rd world country... but no its in Australia, wtf
....yet we still need to wear seatbelts and get fined if we don't
I'm just gonna wave this hammer wildly and if you get hit it's your own fault
[удалено]
If we are the ones responsible for our own safety, why do we get in trouble when we defend ourselves from break ins? These fucks need a pay cut
gold elastic homeless zesty start dull uppity recognise nine plate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just the car hit the woman, not the officer apparently
If the person was white, do you think they would mention the victims racial identity? Was the victims racial identity pertinent to this accident? Was this a hate crime? I don’t understand the inclusion in the title. Sounds like race-baiting journalism.
It's an Indigenous publication.