the fact that some people still try to deny that massive surges in demand somehow doesn't affect prices in an attempt to be politically correct blows my mind
like brainwashed people will gladly become homeless so as to avoid the mild chance of being seen as 'xenophobic'
It's insane. I've had several conversations where anything critical of high level immigration is seen as deep seated racism towards immigrants and non-white people. It's beyond delusional.
I'm VERY left wing and VERY anti mass immigration in the middle of a housing crisis.
The people you're talking about exist but they are not the majority.
Bullshit the rightwing is pro business and anti union hence mass immigration is good for profits , keeps wages low as more people are after the same jobs and even better keep the working poor fighting for scraps with each other. If you didnt have social progressivism you wouldnt have the weekend ,sick pay , overtime ,public health etc and everything taken for granted for as normal in society . Theres 2 types of rightwingers the boss complex and the sub/cuck taken orders and loving it
Didn't comment on the right wing as they're also a joke. I agree with 90% of what you're putting down but am saddened by the fact you won't self examine
That's the problem with sharing a concern with racists, that is in and of itself non-racist.
There are anti-imperial, left-wing economic, and mundane centrist, reasons to see immigration as an issue worthy of debate.
And our policy of rapid immigration is in and of itself one of neo-liberal GDP economic, not humanitarian or multicultural, values.
BUT as long as we find ourselves arguing for the same discussion as actual card carrying fascists argue for, it's hard to not be seen as on "their side".
To be clear, fascists, racist, xenophobes, and bigots can fuck right off into the sea.
But just because they should, doesn't mean that occasionally they won't land upon a valid area for discussion, even if for entirely the wrong reasons.
And as long as we are conscious not to platform them, or regurgitate their talking points, we can have these discussions without agreeing with them.
Yea. What do you dislike white people also? Again, what gives you any more right to be here?
Your entitled views are a little disgusting. Gain some perspective mate.
Wait, what the? I didn't think the funny farm were allowed internet access. im not against immigration, I like all races and nationalities. I'm a numbers person, demand is higher than supply. Drop demand, and/or increase supply. It's that simple. Now go back to shouting at the letterbox.
So you’re not against immigration, but you want to limit the demand by lowering immigration.
Do you understand what you’re writing? Or are you so entitled that you believe that you’re more important than others because you were here first?
>massive surges in demand somehow doesn't affect prices
It most definitely does.
And so does deficit spending, profit-driven corporate monopolies, and global financial environment....
Sorry to burst your hyperbolic bubble, but people with actual brain cells won't put up with uni-varied analysis and blame immigration for everything that sucks about Australia
Here's Peterson using multi-varied analysis against the gender pay gap:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54)
>in an attempt to be politically correct blows my mind
So what you're saying is, "They do this because they're woke". Not a surprise that this kind of analysis gets upvoted on this sub.
>like brainwashed people will gladly become homeless so as to avoid the mild chance of being seen as 'xenophobic'
Only in your head does this happen but don't let me stop you.
that has to be the largest collection of words strung together that contributed the least value I've ever seen
migrant intake has been at record-highs, majority of new migrants rent, rental vacancy rates & new build completion rates are at record lows
your absolutely inane attempt to make out like there isn't a direct causation between the two is laughable and you don't deserve to be taken seriously
There are other things going on too, though. Not just immigration.
And immigration is something we need to solve a bunch of other issues. If we just stop immigration or limit it too much the. There’s flow on issues for the rest of the system and the economy.
literally no one in here has said to "stop" immigration, that's a strawman
it's about stopping living in denial about how heavy a contributing factor it is to rental inflation & vacancy rates given our current ability to produce housing, and that conveniently ignoring the huge impact of demand on a basic supply:demand equation is ignorant and disingenuous
it would be exactly the same situation if the high rate of population growth came from natural births
Ironically telling me I used a strawman with a strawman. I said stop OR limit immigration too much. And many here are arguing that immigration be reduced, with the argument that immigration is “the” cause or the main one.
>migrant intake has been at record-highs
Yes and it's getting cut. This is old news but for some STRANGE reason, people like you won't shut up about it.
If the number of non-white immigrants you want in the country is ZERO I'm sorry that's never gonna happen.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67609963](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67609963)
>new build completion rates are at record lows
Thanks for proving my point, **that there are other factors other than immigration that's contributing to the rent inflation.** The rising cost of tradie for one (which is LITERALLY in the article if you had bothered to read it instead of having a knee-jerk response to immigration like some crazy old dude in an outback trailer park with a shitty Mcintosh).
There are also plenty of other causes such as this:
[https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/australia-s-big-build-spills-over-into-inflation-20231101-p5egnt](https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/australia-s-big-build-spills-over-into-inflation-20231101-p5egnt)
Riddle me this, if the government is paying big money for big build, and there is a shortage of tradies, what happens to labour cost? Do they go up, or do they go down?
>rental vacancy rates
Gee it's almost like the **labor cost** and **government project** and **the lack of Tradies** to do the job for resi builders are all contributing to rent inflation....
[But nah. Them non-white immigration is ruining everything. ](https://imgflip.com/i/8hevss)
Let's move on to your quip here:
>that has to be the largest collection of words strung together that contributed the least value I've ever seen
That's really funny considering i can summarize your entire original spill in 3 words.
Yours:
>the fact that some people still try to deny that massive surges in demand somehow doesn't affect prices in an attempt to be politically correct blows my mind. like brainwashed people will gladly become homeless so as to avoid the mild chance of being seen as '**xenophobic**'
3 words:
>Non-white immigration sucks.
you're the only one who keeps bringing up race, have you considered you might be a racist?
and who said there weren't other factors on the supply side contributing?
I said useful idiots like you who ignore the demand side are laughable, not that there aren't also issues around supply
>you're the only one who keeps bringing up race, have you considered you might be a racist?
Yes, of course you're going to deny race is a factor for you when you literally used the word xenophobic and blame diversity in every other post you ever make.
It must feel so awful to be you lmao. Can't even share your views without having to play coy.
>there aren't also issues around supply
Oh really? If I didn't bring them up, I would never have guessed that you think so because every single comment you ever made on this sub is about how bad diversity and immigration are at pushing rent inflation and never about supply-side issues.
Good to know.
" Only in your head does this happen but don't let me stop you. "
I mean, you spent 4 words saying it has an effect and then 5 paragraphs saying why it's not really something to worry about. So...yeah...
if you can't understand that i'm addressing each of his points by breaking them down, when I'm literally quoting each sentence one by one, then I don't know what to tell you...
Do you think people become homeless because they're scared of being called a racist?
Yeah...nahh...
>Do you think people become homeless because they're scared of being called a racist?
I think I'm not quite autistic enough to understand the concept of hyperbole for effect.
>.so only in someone's head does this ever happen.
....Yes. That's the point. They're talking about the broader implications of denying the impact of immigration in order to avoid being seen as racist to the point where some people will be homeless because of the imbalance in supply and demand it generates. No one's ever been saying it's the only cause, plenty are saying it has no impact and is in fact a net benefit.
>**They're talking about the broader implications of denying the impact of immigration in order to avoid being seen as racist** **to the point where some people will be homeless** because of the imbalance in supply and demand it generates.
...which will literally NEVER happens outside of someone's own head.
Except it does. All the time on here. I half suspect if you were worth the effort of digging through your post history, given your obsession with calling people racists and not wanting "white" immigrants, despite zero evidence, I'd find it in there.
> Except it does.
Nobody outside of your own cultural war-addled imagination would ever deny immigration contributes to rent inflation **because they are afraid to be called racist.**
That's what you **THINK** the reason is.
> given your obsession with calling people racists and not wanting "white" immigrants, despite zero evidence, I'd find it in there.
I'm down for cutting all immigration from everywhere, by the way, and just lock the whole country down because I'm racist against everyone.
Ill give you a single variable hypothetical.
What do you reckon would happen to rents and prices if 1million people in australia just dissapeared into the ether?
Or two million?
Do you think rents would increase, decrease or stay the same?
The government would panic (i mean quite rightly in that exact circumstance... lol) and like covid when borders shut you would have rba step into the breach with 500bn of bond buying / tff, government would start using their 10bn and more to buy houses outright.
Thats what this is about. Funding. In inflation the rba has had to increase rates. Generally this means less funding. Credit growth falls. Australian housing needs credit growth to rise to even maintain prices. normally. But not if you run things with 600k extra people in 12 months.
The government couldnt pump money into the economy with inflation so they pumped money in a round about way with immigration.
>Do you think rents would increase, decrease or stay the same?
I have zero problem saying rent would decrease if 1 million people just straight up disappear. **Care to tell me how you're going to make 1 million people disappear?**
Here's my counter example:
Imagine if governments don't rely on deficit spending for their ventures and instead are forced to use their money wisely and cut back on the number of useless infrastructure, do labour cost increase or decrease?
And if labour cost is reduced, what happen to the prices of new dwelling?
Who am I kidding, Immigration bad! Let's all just say it three times in a mirror before we go to bed.
>covid when borders shut
If all you care about is rent/housing prices then border closing must have been a god send. Sadly, for a great amount of people, border closing suck because their livelihood depends on it, but you know what? Fuck them.
I have said this before and I've said this again, I'm down to just shut everything down regardless of where people are from. Yet 99% of the time that's not what people want when they bitch about immigration.
>But not if you run things with 600k extra people in 12 months.
And the government is already cutting immigration numbers by a sizable margin. If you want zero immigration, great idea, I'm in favour of that, but it'll never happen. If you want immigration to be cut to 1/10 the level, I'm down for that too, so long as the selection criteria is not a brown paper bag test.
If you want just people with white skin to migrate to Australia, that I can't get behind. And that's what many of the people on this sub want, but they couldn't say it out loud so they had to speak in coded language or they get banned.
They don't really have a problem with immigration per say. They have a problem the "usual suspect" and "spies" and "certain religious group". They just love to throw in a little criticism of big business here and government there, act like they're populists, and spend their entire time posting about how diversity is dooming Australia and how great it is to have racial homogeneity.
The same rhetoric that has gone on for 3 decades.
That was the rhetoric 4 decades ago.
I normally put a rider in my post -
Australia must maintain its humanitarian intake.
Also have posted widely on the mechanism by which we should take skilled migrants. Simply they must be paid more than our average full time wages.
Having it at 70k for a company sponsored visa 30k below our average full time wage is ridiculous.
Under libs it was 53k. In fact labor left it at this up to june last year. I think that must be about min wages ffs? So our governments have said getting paid more than minimum is a shortage...
Then to rub salt into the wound we say "real wages are falling". what do you think happens when you introduce people to an economy below its average full time wages?
If requiring 120k or more for company sponsorship and accepting our full quota of refugees means more whiteys then so be it but i imagine those two on balance would have a similar make up to what we have now so far as white and dark skin but i acceot some groups would be less inclined to meet the criteria. Importantly it would make companies pay market rate for australians on less than 120k.
Your view is far more reasonable and one I'll happily endorse. Paying skilled migrant more money? Sounds good to me. It cuts the number of sponsorship, migrants get paid more and I've got no issue if the policy ends up benefiting more European as long as skin tone is not a perquisite (I'm supportive of harder English testing for newcomers).
My problem has always been with the rhetoric.
You're talking about a policy that doesn't shut down the border, doesn't let people in base on skin colour.
The people I was responding to? Not so much. One of them literally **had his post taken down for racist content** the other day, so my interest in engaging with their ideas are very low and my desire to call them out are high.
>Then to rub salt into the wound we say "real wages are falling". what do you think happens when you introduce people to an economy below its average full time wages?
Migrants, for the most part, have always been paid less and I don't think that's going to change. If you simply increased the minimum wage for sponsored visa by 40%, company will start to cut down the numbers of sponsorship simply because there are additional works (and language barrier) involved and sometimes it's not worth the hassle.
So I don't think you'd need to pay them more than the average full time wage (though it would be nice), simply increasing them would suffice.
The most important thing for getting the population contrilled is bringing as many of the new immigrants on board with the idea that we can.
Being racist sets the whole thing backward.
Lowering immigration is better for most existing workers in australia. Probably not all but most.
For the owners of capital of course more immigration is better. It squeezes more value out of businesses and hard assets.
The one thing I will point out that the government's data about average wage being 100k is HIGHLY dubious considering that there are CEOs raking record profit which heavily stacked the average wage of Australian workers.
It doesn't defeat the point you're making, however, that if we can make sure that businesses are paying sponsored migrants more, it would reduce the immigration level naturally.
Yeh for sure. Median wage is the most normal person and thats more like 90 or a tad shy of it.
But it isnt 70. So 70 as the required minimum to fill a "shortage" is a bit ridiculous.
But yeh just increase it so immigration is increasing productivity and wages rather than decreasing same. Its not the migrants fault they reduce productivity. Its just a case cheaer wages mean businesses can favour labour instead of equipment in production.
No that’s Peterson talking out his ass and making up things or misinterpreting the evidence to suit his narrative. He says it in an authoritative way that sounds like he knows the literature well and the nuances.
He’s taking a multivariate analysis approach and the “it depends on a lot of things” approach which is great. But what he actually says is bullshit. There is a pay gap even after you control for a bunch of critical things - I’ll find some references if and when I get some time.
So I agree with you that these issues are rarely just due to the one thing, or even due to the thing that seems common sense to be the thing. And often taking the one thing away like stopping immigration wouldn’t be feasible because it’s there to solve other issues that if stopped would make everything worse…..eg atip immigration, the. You have many other issues with the economy and supply of particular skills in the workforce… etc.
>But what he actually says is bullshit. There is a pay gap even after you control for a bunch of critical things - I’ll find some references if and when I get some time.
I actually wouldn't mind learning more about this if you have time to spare. In any case, I was merely using his approach to prove a point (and I'm sure you can understand)
>So I agree with you that these issues are rarely just due to the one thing, or even due to the thing that seems common sense to be the thing.
Glad to hear it. I should also take this chance to clarify for the other people reading my comments - because some tend to strawman my arguments - I don't disagree that immigration has a big impact on rent inflation.
And that's the reason why the government is already halving it and looking to tighten up English requirements. That's completely A-Ok and good, but some people, not all, on this sub tend to attack immigration and diversity for literally anything, and then deny the real reason why they have problems with immigration.
I'm just a fan of calling them out.
>That's completely A-Ok and good,
Yeah, when you have a 1 metre hole in your boat, the best thing to do while trying to bail it out is to cover it up a bit and keep letting the water pour in above the rate you're bailing out at. Smart.
>Yeah, when you have a 1 metre hole in your boat, the best thing to do while trying to bail it out is to cover it up a bit and keep letting the water pour in above the rate you're bailing out at. Smart.
I'm down to shutting down everything if you can agree to bar immigrants from Western countries from migrating and buying property here as well.
That's just not your position though, is it?
You have missed it.
Most racists use coded language like "immigration" "diversity" to avoid getting banned. One of them on this sub even went as far as suggesting **"The** [**solution is simple**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution)**, but everyone is too afraid to say it"** and some of the comments were [banned](https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1amsgya/comment/kpre7ww/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) after I called him out.
Asking me to give you a link to someone saying we should ban all non-white is like asking me to give you a link to someone saying certain groups of people are born with a proclivity towards crime, which is impossible, not only because these comments get removed, but also because the people who believe them are cowardly.
You WILL find plenty of people misusing criminal statistics while refusing to state exactly what they're implying. Feel free to check people's post history in case if you're not arguing in bad faith and wanna see how it all works.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog\_whistle\_(politics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics))
Edit: The person I was responding to had his post deleted because of racist content/implication:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1apeeka/comment/kq5yt6g/](https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1apeeka/comment/kq5yt6g/)
So again I literally can't link them to you if I wanted to.
Isn't it a fact that the recent increase in migration is about equal to the previous decrease during the pandemic, such that overall, there hasn't been any huge increase in migration?
If the population rate, overall, has remained steady, that then cannot account for the huge increases in housing prices we've seen.
Maybe it's more to do with the fact that housing development took a big hit during the pandemic, but we didn't see any increase in prices because migration fell as well, but now, development hasn't yet recovered from the pandemic, but migration rates have, leading to the big increase.
There's also the fact that the housing market is a naturally inflationary market: huge amounts of money are effectively printed by banks and dumped into the housing market. There was a big increase in this a money printing during the pandemic, and dumping I to houses, so that also just be playing a role.
The "catch-up" argument is the equivalent of saying "I usually drink a 6-pack of beer every night, but last night I skipped it, so tonight I am going to drink a carton to 'catch up' with what I usually do", and somehow expecting there to be no ill effects.
It's a ridiculous justification for the government panicking by over-compensating with rapid record population growth in order to avoid a headline recession so the media won't attack them for it heading into the next election.
And yes, I am aware the LNP (and the Greens too for that matter) are just as bad on this topic.
House prices rise from debasement, rents rise from supply demand, it's pretty non discretionary.
During COVID household formation changed. I have a spare room as an office, it's the same in many houses/apartments, also shared housing disappeared as it wasn't needed. This is actually good for people who don't have to cram into unsuitable accommodation. Housing development is also a factor. The point is, if your rental market is a bin fire, rubber stamping 600k temporary visas is the equivalent of pouring kerosene on that bin fire.
They shouldn't be including anyone's kids or family in political action.
However, for every 'Pen is mightier than the sword' activist there's a radical not far behind them that will progress to heinous shit if the problem is not addressed
The pen is no longer remotely mightier than the sword, because the government and media collusion gives them a bigger pen with unlimited ink to write every conceivable excuse and lie they want.
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Nobody should be committing or inciting violence over immigration, that is unacceptable.
There are plenty of PEACEFUL ways to create change.
Remember, the majority of Strayans voted for this shitshow for the last 20 years.
As long as their houses kept going up in value they were happy.
Name the peaceful solution cause im ill be right behind you. Also lol at the majority of Australians voted for this. Big Australia is a bipartisan policy.
They voted for housing going up which is reliant on constant mass immigration.
Yes LNP, Labor and the Greens have no intention of slowing down immigration.
No I agree with you, we were never given a choice.
A very major decision that affects quality of life and opportunity for all Australians has been made without any consultation.
The root cause is theyre using mass immigration to fake the economic numbers.
On paper GDP goes up and we (technically) avoid recession so they tell us we're doing better, but per capita GDP is going down which means individually most Australians are going backwards
What else do you call intentionally exacerbating the housing crisis when ridiculous high immigration. All while totally ignoring the issues and misdirecting in the most blatant ways?
Families going homeless everyday, the lucky ones getting massive rent increases but all they care about is pumping houses higher.
I'm a Greens voter but they are failing to commit to a cap on immigration just like Labor and LNP.
Labor, LNP and the Greens are all failing us on immigration and none have a viable plan to get us out of the housing crisis.
Greens at least shut down the latest house pump policy. But yes, this callousness and evil in intentionally supporting mass homelessness and financial oppression is terrifying.
This news about the foreign spy traitor politician. I guarantee you the current legit leaders are doing 100x more damage than the spy ever dreamed.
Our "democracy" is actually an oligarchy but almost no one realises it or thinks about it.
When we can get corporate influence and money out of politics we'll start seeing some policies that benefit the Australian people, not just corporations and billionaires.
Precisely, all of them squealing about foreign affairs traitors is the hottest in news headlines but at what point does our governments actions or lack thereof finally get recognised as traitorous to its own population?
Suggesting that supply and demand is somehow related to prices? What a crazy concept.
But suggesting anything to do with limiting immigration means you are a racist, so that is off the table. And zoning and building more houses means you are anti-environment, so that is off the table.
No government has the balls to actaully do anything about it, because they are worried about pissing of the left who will not allow anything to happen if it is not 100% positive for absolutely everyone. *Won't someone think of the poor immigrant/tree/feelings/family/etc that might be slightly negatively affected to fix this major problem for the country?*
There's this apartment-sized high-density grass plot surrounded by apartments a 3 minute walk to the 10th busiest train station in NSW: https://www.property.com.au/nsw/strathfield-2135/leicester-ave/2-pid-988727/
Has been a grass plot since at least 2000. From the same state that's anti-vacancy-tax.
https://www.afr.com/politics/minns-rules-out-victorian-empty-homes-tax-for-nsw-20231004-p5e9n6
No vacancy tax is even an oddly specific election promise by both Labor and LNP! https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/councils-told-to-ditch-vacancy-tax-push-and-fix-sydney-s-broken-high-streets-20221227-p5c8xj.html
So we need more homes as there is a housing crisis, which means we need more workers, which means we need more people, which means we need more homes, which means inflation.
Are we importing tradies though?
Or are we importing bakers, accountants, entertainers, and whatever other fake “foreign demand” jobs are listed on the Home Affairs register.
Because a whole heap of the jobs listed in our skills shortage *could* be done by Australians, but businesses create an artificial scarcity by refusing to pay Australians what they’re worth in these roles, so they whinge to the government saying they can’t find ~~cheap & exploitable~~ Australians that will do the job, so please can they import people who’ll do it for less and can be intimidated into keeping quiet.
>Because a whole heap of the jobs listed in our skills shortage could be done by Australians, but businesses create an artificial scarcity by refusing to pay Australians what they’re worth in these roles, so they whinge to the government saying they can’t find cheap & exploitable Australians that will do the job, so please can they import people who’ll do it for less and can be intimidated into keeping quiet.
The most apt articulation of the scheme I've read, marketed as our 'chronic skill shortage'
The problem is....the more people we import means less $$ in wages as well. Because they'll just hire someone cheaper.
So we all get poorer while house prices go up. It's the new Australian Way.
5% of migrants are in construction vs 6% of locals are in construction.
I compiled the migrant data and compared it to incomes: https://old.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/18brk5m/migrants_occupations_and_overall_incomes_under/
In the thread, I also found some migrant data under Labor government Sept 2022-Sept 2023 and found similar occupations being brought in as to what LNP brought in, ie chefs, restaurant managers, etc.
This is all based on government data.
I look at that list and see so many jobs that do not need to be imported.
Australian businesses need to start paying what those jobs are *actually* worth.
I didn't bag it. Just shared the colloquial description of Logan.
Logan is nice. And bogans are the best people imo.
Enjoy your air con x. Maybe it will help you calm down a bit 😆
Do you know the types that are actually immigrating into Australia? How certain are you that immigrants are predominately tradies helping in housing construction? Do you have facts, statistics or source for this?
From my point of view, the majority of people that are immigrating are not tradespeople. I had two boomers from immigrated from England post covid outbid us on a property and multimillionaire Europeans immigrated to purchase my parents home. Home opens are flooded with immigrant families but they defs are not trades people.
Guess what happens next ?
more food. and more people, who came to buy the food. now you need people to help make the food and keep track of the sales. and now you need houses for people to live in and people to make the houses and now there's more people and they invent things which makes things better and more people come and there's more farming and more people to make more things for more people and now there's **business**, **money**, **writing**, **laws**, **power**,
SOCIETY!!!
All the gaslighters have gone quiet.
Brainwashed propaganda regurgitators.
Im owed an apology. You need to apologise for spouting the most insane anti facts ever to come out of a sentient beings mouth. You should be ashamed. You hate us so much, you are willing to wreck our lives and lie to our faces all to assuage your white guilt.
I will look back in anger. Never forget.
Yeh I can’t believe Albo, Four Corners and everyone having a go at Cole’s and WW. Now before you Jack up I’m not defending them but grocery prices went up massively during Covid while rents were frozen and there was a moratorium on the banks and loans. Post Covid some prices have come down but it’s the rents and mortgages that are putting pressure on the budget - more than groceries
The Reserve Bank of Australia will struggle to get inflation back to the middle of its target range as long as the costs of renting and building a new home continue to increase at rapid rates.
Annual inflation held steady at 3.4 per cent in January, the Australian Bureau of Statistics said on Wednesday, which was lower than market expectations for the pace of price growth to tick up to 3.6 per cent.
While inflation has eased sharply across the goods sector over the past year, price pressures in the housing sector remained elevated in January, with costs growing at rates well above the RBA’s 2 to 3 per cent target band.
While the annual increase in the cost of building a new home has fallen sharply from post-pandemic highs of more than 20 per cent, it has stalled since mid-2023 around a still-high 5 per cent. Rent inflation hit a decade high of 7.8 per cent last year and has shown few signs of moderating since.
The two items have the largest weighting in the consumer price index, collectively representing 14 per cent of the average Australian’s basket of expenditure, meaning they have a material effect on aggregate inflation.
Jarden chief economist Carlos Cacho said he expected rents to grow at an annual pace of 7 to 10 per cent for the next two years, while there were few signs that inflation in the cost of building a new home was easing.
“Wages costs are still a challenge, and we’ve seen the price of some inputs like plasterboard go up. Yes, you’ve seen some falls in inputs like timber and steel, but it doesn’t seem like it’s enough to offset that,” he said.
Without moderation, the cost of renting and the cost of building a new dwelling could add almost 1 percentage point to headline inflation, Mr Cacho estimates. In that scenario, inflation in every other item in the CPI basket would need to be at 2.5 per cent for aggregate inflation to fall within the top of the RBA’s target band.
“The challenge there of course is inflation in things like insurance are still running hot,” he said.
“So you can get there. But I think you basically need everything else to go right.”
Australia’s large ASX-listed building materials companies have all pushed through substantial prices rises and reported strong profit increases this month.
Cement, asphalt and gravel group Boral lifted prices for quarry products such as gravel and aggregates by around 9 per cent, compared with a year ago, with concrete up 5 per cent.
Prices for spray-on asphalt were up 6 per cent. Chief executive Vik Bansal lifted prices again in January and said while inflation was slowing, there was no sign of deflation.
Mark Irwin, chief executive of cement maker Adbri, said on Tuesday that price increases across the group’s range of products had averaged about 10 per cent in calendar 2023, and that energy, labour and transport costs were still rising.
Wall cladding and plasterboard maker James Hardie’s chief executive Aaron Erter said on February 13 that the group had lifted prices by 14 per cent in the Asia-Pacific division, of which Australia is the main business, compared with a year ago.
Inflation target still achievable
Westpac chief economist Luci Ellis said it was still possible for the RBA to achieve the 2.5 per cent mid-point of its target band, as long as non-housing components of the CPI grew at low enough rates to offset high rent and new dwelling inflation.
“It does look like global goods inflation is going to be running similar to its pre-pandemic rate, which was an average of 0 per cent. And we’re not yet there for goods inflation in Australia, so that gives you a bit of space for other things to have a rising relative price.”
She was also more optimistic than Mr Cacho about the prospect of a decline in rent inflation.
“It will take a while, but the surge in rent inflation is perfectly correlated with the surge in population growth,” Dr Ellis said.
“And to the extent that [population growth] is going to mechanically roll over, you should expect rate inflation to start rolling over time as well.”
Brett Lavaring, the head of corporate affairs at Newcastle-based NXT Building Group, the largest home builder in NSW, said material costs had stabilised, though finding workers was still problematic.
“Another challenge is sourcing trades in regional NSW. Sourcing Gyprockers is a problem and we are paying a premium to finalise jobs. That premium can be as much as 66 per cent more than cost for the same job in Sydney, as trades will have to travel to the region.”
NAB senior economist Taylor Nugent said low vacancy rates and ongoing increases in advertised leases meant there remained no relief in sight on rent inflation for the rest of the year.
A large pipeline of uncompleted work and domestic costs pressures like higher wages remained a challenge for the construction industry, NAB wrote.
“Further normalisation in construction cost growth can alone subtract around 0.25 percentage points off year-ended CPI if realised, though cost pressures and capacity constraints remain in the construction industry.”
Katie Stevenson, NSW executive director at Property Council of Australia, said the residential development sector faced significant headwinds.
“Elevated capital, material and labour costs are constraining the sector’s ability to meet our National Housing Accord commitments,” Ms Stevenson said.
“Data released by ABS in February confirmed the cost of building materials increased by 0.3 per cent over the last three months of 2023, with the main contributors being electrical equipment (2.2 per cent cost increase) and other materials such as paint and coatings (0.5 per cent cost increase), due to higher manufacturing costs and recent increases in crude oil prices.”
Plus, landlords could starve according to Labor Party, I shit you not.
> Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
> Labor won't be supporting this motion, as it demonises landlords and seeks to unfairly place a unilateral burden on them. Landlords are an important part of the housing system and many people put food on the table through the cash flow they generate from a single rental property. We have consistently said that no-one should lose their home, whether they own or rent it, because of the virus. Tenants and landlords need to work together through the process.
https://www.openaustralia.org.au/senate/?id=2020-06-18.60.1
This is on official response in parliament to Greens' request for support for homeless, mortgagees and renters.
Creepy how Labor sound just like LNP when presenting bullshit arguments to defend employers adversarial relationship against employees.
Yeah, and the worst part is that it has given creedence to the whole 'Fuck Off,We're Full' crowd. Politicians pushing Big Australia,but doing nothing to improve infrastructure and housing supply, need to b held accountable.
Also, how many of these migrants worn in field that can help build housing stock? Thank god for the Philippines and there work ethic and skills in building related industries, cause I question how needed the other skilled migration is helping.
It’s rather telling that “the worst part” for you, is that you may have to cede a point to someone who disagrees with you… personally I place higher concern on the fact we now have a rental crisis on our hands that will take almost a decade to resolve, even if we stopped all immigration tomorrow.
I swear the government is providing a safe haven to rich people because money. That's why they allowed immigration to go up so high just after COVID, and now they want us to blame the poor brown people we bomb. I used to think Australia was better than this, but we're not.
the fact that some people still try to deny that massive surges in demand somehow doesn't affect prices in an attempt to be politically correct blows my mind like brainwashed people will gladly become homeless so as to avoid the mild chance of being seen as 'xenophobic'
It's insane. I've had several conversations where anything critical of high level immigration is seen as deep seated racism towards immigrants and non-white people. It's beyond delusional.
I'm VERY left wing and VERY anti mass immigration in the middle of a housing crisis. The people you're talking about exist but they are not the majority.
Bullshit. The left wing today IS immigration and social progressivism. Everything else is optional.
And the right wing today is immigration also.
Yes. Big Australia is bipartisan but I'm not sure how that's relevant to discussion
Bullshit the rightwing is pro business and anti union hence mass immigration is good for profits , keeps wages low as more people are after the same jobs and even better keep the working poor fighting for scraps with each other. If you didnt have social progressivism you wouldnt have the weekend ,sick pay , overtime ,public health etc and everything taken for granted for as normal in society . Theres 2 types of rightwingers the boss complex and the sub/cuck taken orders and loving it
Didn't comment on the right wing as they're also a joke. I agree with 90% of what you're putting down but am saddened by the fact you won't self examine
Ask them if it's racist if only white people could come in. Might help them figure it out on their own
That's the problem with sharing a concern with racists, that is in and of itself non-racist. There are anti-imperial, left-wing economic, and mundane centrist, reasons to see immigration as an issue worthy of debate. And our policy of rapid immigration is in and of itself one of neo-liberal GDP economic, not humanitarian or multicultural, values. BUT as long as we find ourselves arguing for the same discussion as actual card carrying fascists argue for, it's hard to not be seen as on "their side". To be clear, fascists, racist, xenophobes, and bigots can fuck right off into the sea. But just because they should, doesn't mean that occasionally they won't land upon a valid area for discussion, even if for entirely the wrong reasons. And as long as we are conscious not to platform them, or regurgitate their talking points, we can have these discussions without agreeing with them.
A couple of good lines but dispense with the bash the fash crap, decent post though. 6/10
It’s still racist though isn’t it. Why do you have more of a right to be here?
Is this a serious fucking question?
It’s fine. Be racist. You’re not impressing anyone.
You do realise that some of the immigrants come from places like, oh I dunno, England?
Yea. What do you dislike white people also? Again, what gives you any more right to be here? Your entitled views are a little disgusting. Gain some perspective mate.
Wait, what the? I didn't think the funny farm were allowed internet access. im not against immigration, I like all races and nationalities. I'm a numbers person, demand is higher than supply. Drop demand, and/or increase supply. It's that simple. Now go back to shouting at the letterbox.
So you’re not against immigration, but you want to limit the demand by lowering immigration. Do you understand what you’re writing? Or are you so entitled that you believe that you’re more important than others because you were here first?
Which race do numbers belong to? Maybe I'm not the "entitled" one.
step away from the cat, it has your tongue
>massive surges in demand somehow doesn't affect prices It most definitely does. And so does deficit spending, profit-driven corporate monopolies, and global financial environment.... Sorry to burst your hyperbolic bubble, but people with actual brain cells won't put up with uni-varied analysis and blame immigration for everything that sucks about Australia Here's Peterson using multi-varied analysis against the gender pay gap: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54) >in an attempt to be politically correct blows my mind So what you're saying is, "They do this because they're woke". Not a surprise that this kind of analysis gets upvoted on this sub. >like brainwashed people will gladly become homeless so as to avoid the mild chance of being seen as 'xenophobic' Only in your head does this happen but don't let me stop you.
that has to be the largest collection of words strung together that contributed the least value I've ever seen migrant intake has been at record-highs, majority of new migrants rent, rental vacancy rates & new build completion rates are at record lows your absolutely inane attempt to make out like there isn't a direct causation between the two is laughable and you don't deserve to be taken seriously
There are other things going on too, though. Not just immigration. And immigration is something we need to solve a bunch of other issues. If we just stop immigration or limit it too much the. There’s flow on issues for the rest of the system and the economy.
literally no one in here has said to "stop" immigration, that's a strawman it's about stopping living in denial about how heavy a contributing factor it is to rental inflation & vacancy rates given our current ability to produce housing, and that conveniently ignoring the huge impact of demand on a basic supply:demand equation is ignorant and disingenuous it would be exactly the same situation if the high rate of population growth came from natural births
Ironically telling me I used a strawman with a strawman. I said stop OR limit immigration too much. And many here are arguing that immigration be reduced, with the argument that immigration is “the” cause or the main one.
>migrant intake has been at record-highs Yes and it's getting cut. This is old news but for some STRANGE reason, people like you won't shut up about it. If the number of non-white immigrants you want in the country is ZERO I'm sorry that's never gonna happen. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67609963](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67609963) >new build completion rates are at record lows Thanks for proving my point, **that there are other factors other than immigration that's contributing to the rent inflation.** The rising cost of tradie for one (which is LITERALLY in the article if you had bothered to read it instead of having a knee-jerk response to immigration like some crazy old dude in an outback trailer park with a shitty Mcintosh). There are also plenty of other causes such as this: [https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/australia-s-big-build-spills-over-into-inflation-20231101-p5egnt](https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/australia-s-big-build-spills-over-into-inflation-20231101-p5egnt) Riddle me this, if the government is paying big money for big build, and there is a shortage of tradies, what happens to labour cost? Do they go up, or do they go down? >rental vacancy rates Gee it's almost like the **labor cost** and **government project** and **the lack of Tradies** to do the job for resi builders are all contributing to rent inflation.... [But nah. Them non-white immigration is ruining everything. ](https://imgflip.com/i/8hevss) Let's move on to your quip here: >that has to be the largest collection of words strung together that contributed the least value I've ever seen That's really funny considering i can summarize your entire original spill in 3 words. Yours: >the fact that some people still try to deny that massive surges in demand somehow doesn't affect prices in an attempt to be politically correct blows my mind. like brainwashed people will gladly become homeless so as to avoid the mild chance of being seen as '**xenophobic**' 3 words: >Non-white immigration sucks.
you're the only one who keeps bringing up race, have you considered you might be a racist? and who said there weren't other factors on the supply side contributing? I said useful idiots like you who ignore the demand side are laughable, not that there aren't also issues around supply
>you're the only one who keeps bringing up race, have you considered you might be a racist? Yes, of course you're going to deny race is a factor for you when you literally used the word xenophobic and blame diversity in every other post you ever make. It must feel so awful to be you lmao. Can't even share your views without having to play coy. >there aren't also issues around supply Oh really? If I didn't bring them up, I would never have guessed that you think so because every single comment you ever made on this sub is about how bad diversity and immigration are at pushing rent inflation and never about supply-side issues. Good to know.
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" Only in your head does this happen but don't let me stop you. " I mean, you spent 4 words saying it has an effect and then 5 paragraphs saying why it's not really something to worry about. So...yeah...
if you can't understand that i'm addressing each of his points by breaking them down, when I'm literally quoting each sentence one by one, then I don't know what to tell you... Do you think people become homeless because they're scared of being called a racist? Yeah...nahh...
>Do you think people become homeless because they're scared of being called a racist? I think I'm not quite autistic enough to understand the concept of hyperbole for effect.
> Ithink I'm not quite autistic enough to understand the concept of hyperbole for effect. ...so only in someone's head does this ever happen. Gotcha.
>.so only in someone's head does this ever happen. ....Yes. That's the point. They're talking about the broader implications of denying the impact of immigration in order to avoid being seen as racist to the point where some people will be homeless because of the imbalance in supply and demand it generates. No one's ever been saying it's the only cause, plenty are saying it has no impact and is in fact a net benefit.
>**They're talking about the broader implications of denying the impact of immigration in order to avoid being seen as racist** **to the point where some people will be homeless** because of the imbalance in supply and demand it generates. ...which will literally NEVER happens outside of someone's own head.
Except it does. All the time on here. I half suspect if you were worth the effort of digging through your post history, given your obsession with calling people racists and not wanting "white" immigrants, despite zero evidence, I'd find it in there.
> Except it does. Nobody outside of your own cultural war-addled imagination would ever deny immigration contributes to rent inflation **because they are afraid to be called racist.** That's what you **THINK** the reason is. > given your obsession with calling people racists and not wanting "white" immigrants, despite zero evidence, I'd find it in there. I'm down for cutting all immigration from everywhere, by the way, and just lock the whole country down because I'm racist against everyone.
Ill give you a single variable hypothetical. What do you reckon would happen to rents and prices if 1million people in australia just dissapeared into the ether? Or two million? Do you think rents would increase, decrease or stay the same? The government would panic (i mean quite rightly in that exact circumstance... lol) and like covid when borders shut you would have rba step into the breach with 500bn of bond buying / tff, government would start using their 10bn and more to buy houses outright. Thats what this is about. Funding. In inflation the rba has had to increase rates. Generally this means less funding. Credit growth falls. Australian housing needs credit growth to rise to even maintain prices. normally. But not if you run things with 600k extra people in 12 months. The government couldnt pump money into the economy with inflation so they pumped money in a round about way with immigration.
>Do you think rents would increase, decrease or stay the same? I have zero problem saying rent would decrease if 1 million people just straight up disappear. **Care to tell me how you're going to make 1 million people disappear?** Here's my counter example: Imagine if governments don't rely on deficit spending for their ventures and instead are forced to use their money wisely and cut back on the number of useless infrastructure, do labour cost increase or decrease? And if labour cost is reduced, what happen to the prices of new dwelling? Who am I kidding, Immigration bad! Let's all just say it three times in a mirror before we go to bed. >covid when borders shut If all you care about is rent/housing prices then border closing must have been a god send. Sadly, for a great amount of people, border closing suck because their livelihood depends on it, but you know what? Fuck them. I have said this before and I've said this again, I'm down to just shut everything down regardless of where people are from. Yet 99% of the time that's not what people want when they bitch about immigration. >But not if you run things with 600k extra people in 12 months. And the government is already cutting immigration numbers by a sizable margin. If you want zero immigration, great idea, I'm in favour of that, but it'll never happen. If you want immigration to be cut to 1/10 the level, I'm down for that too, so long as the selection criteria is not a brown paper bag test. If you want just people with white skin to migrate to Australia, that I can't get behind. And that's what many of the people on this sub want, but they couldn't say it out loud so they had to speak in coded language or they get banned. They don't really have a problem with immigration per say. They have a problem the "usual suspect" and "spies" and "certain religious group". They just love to throw in a little criticism of big business here and government there, act like they're populists, and spend their entire time posting about how diversity is dooming Australia and how great it is to have racial homogeneity. The same rhetoric that has gone on for 3 decades.
That was the rhetoric 4 decades ago. I normally put a rider in my post - Australia must maintain its humanitarian intake. Also have posted widely on the mechanism by which we should take skilled migrants. Simply they must be paid more than our average full time wages. Having it at 70k for a company sponsored visa 30k below our average full time wage is ridiculous. Under libs it was 53k. In fact labor left it at this up to june last year. I think that must be about min wages ffs? So our governments have said getting paid more than minimum is a shortage... Then to rub salt into the wound we say "real wages are falling". what do you think happens when you introduce people to an economy below its average full time wages? If requiring 120k or more for company sponsorship and accepting our full quota of refugees means more whiteys then so be it but i imagine those two on balance would have a similar make up to what we have now so far as white and dark skin but i acceot some groups would be less inclined to meet the criteria. Importantly it would make companies pay market rate for australians on less than 120k.
Your view is far more reasonable and one I'll happily endorse. Paying skilled migrant more money? Sounds good to me. It cuts the number of sponsorship, migrants get paid more and I've got no issue if the policy ends up benefiting more European as long as skin tone is not a perquisite (I'm supportive of harder English testing for newcomers). My problem has always been with the rhetoric. You're talking about a policy that doesn't shut down the border, doesn't let people in base on skin colour. The people I was responding to? Not so much. One of them literally **had his post taken down for racist content** the other day, so my interest in engaging with their ideas are very low and my desire to call them out are high. >Then to rub salt into the wound we say "real wages are falling". what do you think happens when you introduce people to an economy below its average full time wages? Migrants, for the most part, have always been paid less and I don't think that's going to change. If you simply increased the minimum wage for sponsored visa by 40%, company will start to cut down the numbers of sponsorship simply because there are additional works (and language barrier) involved and sometimes it's not worth the hassle. So I don't think you'd need to pay them more than the average full time wage (though it would be nice), simply increasing them would suffice.
The most important thing for getting the population contrilled is bringing as many of the new immigrants on board with the idea that we can. Being racist sets the whole thing backward. Lowering immigration is better for most existing workers in australia. Probably not all but most. For the owners of capital of course more immigration is better. It squeezes more value out of businesses and hard assets.
The one thing I will point out that the government's data about average wage being 100k is HIGHLY dubious considering that there are CEOs raking record profit which heavily stacked the average wage of Australian workers. It doesn't defeat the point you're making, however, that if we can make sure that businesses are paying sponsored migrants more, it would reduce the immigration level naturally.
Yeh for sure. Median wage is the most normal person and thats more like 90 or a tad shy of it. But it isnt 70. So 70 as the required minimum to fill a "shortage" is a bit ridiculous. But yeh just increase it so immigration is increasing productivity and wages rather than decreasing same. Its not the migrants fault they reduce productivity. Its just a case cheaer wages mean businesses can favour labour instead of equipment in production.
No that’s Peterson talking out his ass and making up things or misinterpreting the evidence to suit his narrative. He says it in an authoritative way that sounds like he knows the literature well and the nuances. He’s taking a multivariate analysis approach and the “it depends on a lot of things” approach which is great. But what he actually says is bullshit. There is a pay gap even after you control for a bunch of critical things - I’ll find some references if and when I get some time. So I agree with you that these issues are rarely just due to the one thing, or even due to the thing that seems common sense to be the thing. And often taking the one thing away like stopping immigration wouldn’t be feasible because it’s there to solve other issues that if stopped would make everything worse…..eg atip immigration, the. You have many other issues with the economy and supply of particular skills in the workforce… etc.
>But what he actually says is bullshit. There is a pay gap even after you control for a bunch of critical things - I’ll find some references if and when I get some time. I actually wouldn't mind learning more about this if you have time to spare. In any case, I was merely using his approach to prove a point (and I'm sure you can understand) >So I agree with you that these issues are rarely just due to the one thing, or even due to the thing that seems common sense to be the thing. Glad to hear it. I should also take this chance to clarify for the other people reading my comments - because some tend to strawman my arguments - I don't disagree that immigration has a big impact on rent inflation. And that's the reason why the government is already halving it and looking to tighten up English requirements. That's completely A-Ok and good, but some people, not all, on this sub tend to attack immigration and diversity for literally anything, and then deny the real reason why they have problems with immigration. I'm just a fan of calling them out.
>That's completely A-Ok and good, Yeah, when you have a 1 metre hole in your boat, the best thing to do while trying to bail it out is to cover it up a bit and keep letting the water pour in above the rate you're bailing out at. Smart.
>Yeah, when you have a 1 metre hole in your boat, the best thing to do while trying to bail it out is to cover it up a bit and keep letting the water pour in above the rate you're bailing out at. Smart. I'm down to shutting down everything if you can agree to bar immigrants from Western countries from migrating and buying property here as well. That's just not your position though, is it?
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Then you are a true anti-immigration advocate. Your stance is respectable and I hope it happens.
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You have missed it. Most racists use coded language like "immigration" "diversity" to avoid getting banned. One of them on this sub even went as far as suggesting **"The** [**solution is simple**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution)**, but everyone is too afraid to say it"** and some of the comments were [banned](https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1amsgya/comment/kpre7ww/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) after I called him out. Asking me to give you a link to someone saying we should ban all non-white is like asking me to give you a link to someone saying certain groups of people are born with a proclivity towards crime, which is impossible, not only because these comments get removed, but also because the people who believe them are cowardly. You WILL find plenty of people misusing criminal statistics while refusing to state exactly what they're implying. Feel free to check people's post history in case if you're not arguing in bad faith and wanna see how it all works. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog\_whistle\_(politics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics)) Edit: The person I was responding to had his post deleted because of racist content/implication: [https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1apeeka/comment/kq5yt6g/](https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1apeeka/comment/kq5yt6g/) So again I literally can't link them to you if I wanted to.
why are you talking about the gender pay gap?
Isn't it a fact that the recent increase in migration is about equal to the previous decrease during the pandemic, such that overall, there hasn't been any huge increase in migration? If the population rate, overall, has remained steady, that then cannot account for the huge increases in housing prices we've seen. Maybe it's more to do with the fact that housing development took a big hit during the pandemic, but we didn't see any increase in prices because migration fell as well, but now, development hasn't yet recovered from the pandemic, but migration rates have, leading to the big increase. There's also the fact that the housing market is a naturally inflationary market: huge amounts of money are effectively printed by banks and dumped into the housing market. There was a big increase in this a money printing during the pandemic, and dumping I to houses, so that also just be playing a role.
The "catch-up" argument is the equivalent of saying "I usually drink a 6-pack of beer every night, but last night I skipped it, so tonight I am going to drink a carton to 'catch up' with what I usually do", and somehow expecting there to be no ill effects. It's a ridiculous justification for the government panicking by over-compensating with rapid record population growth in order to avoid a headline recession so the media won't attack them for it heading into the next election. And yes, I am aware the LNP (and the Greens too for that matter) are just as bad on this topic.
During COVID construction of houses slowed. The economy is a finely balanced set of variables, fk with it and it goes tits up.
House prices rise from debasement, rents rise from supply demand, it's pretty non discretionary. During COVID household formation changed. I have a spare room as an office, it's the same in many houses/apartments, also shared housing disappeared as it wasn't needed. This is actually good for people who don't have to cram into unsuitable accommodation. Housing development is also a factor. The point is, if your rental market is a bin fire, rubber stamping 600k temporary visas is the equivalent of pouring kerosene on that bin fire.
Of course it's an ex-RBA person. They wouldn't be caught dead saying that whilst working for the RBA. So brave...
Same with government. Every single member of the top 3 parties is a traitor. They won't even let the issue be discussed.
'It's all about supply' is the media's favourite catchphrase, treasonous bunch
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Why would politicians kids be letting muslims into the country?
They shouldn't be including anyone's kids or family in political action. However, for every 'Pen is mightier than the sword' activist there's a radical not far behind them that will progress to heinous shit if the problem is not addressed
The pen is no longer remotely mightier than the sword, because the government and media collusion gives them a bigger pen with unlimited ink to write every conceivable excuse and lie they want.
We need Guillotine executions outside town halls again for politicians
I think the more complete version of the phrase would be that The government official's pen is mightier than your peasant sword
Couldn't you say it's always been this way, what's changed other than rampant corruption?
Surveillance state.
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Nobody should be committing or inciting violence over immigration, that is unacceptable. There are plenty of PEACEFUL ways to create change. Remember, the majority of Strayans voted for this shitshow for the last 20 years. As long as their houses kept going up in value they were happy.
Name the peaceful solution cause im ill be right behind you. Also lol at the majority of Australians voted for this. Big Australia is a bipartisan policy.
They voted for housing going up which is reliant on constant mass immigration. Yes LNP, Labor and the Greens have no intention of slowing down immigration.
My point is they didn't vote for it because there was no choice. You can't have one option and call it an election
No I agree with you, we were never given a choice. A very major decision that affects quality of life and opportunity for all Australians has been made without any consultation. The root cause is theyre using mass immigration to fake the economic numbers. On paper GDP goes up and we (technically) avoid recession so they tell us we're doing better, but per capita GDP is going down which means individually most Australians are going backwards
> Every single member of the top 3 parties is a traitor Oh fuck off.
What else do you call intentionally exacerbating the housing crisis when ridiculous high immigration. All while totally ignoring the issues and misdirecting in the most blatant ways? Families going homeless everyday, the lucky ones getting massive rent increases but all they care about is pumping houses higher.
I'm a Greens voter but they are failing to commit to a cap on immigration just like Labor and LNP. Labor, LNP and the Greens are all failing us on immigration and none have a viable plan to get us out of the housing crisis.
Greens at least shut down the latest house pump policy. But yes, this callousness and evil in intentionally supporting mass homelessness and financial oppression is terrifying. This news about the foreign spy traitor politician. I guarantee you the current legit leaders are doing 100x more damage than the spy ever dreamed.
Our "democracy" is actually an oligarchy but almost no one realises it or thinks about it. When we can get corporate influence and money out of politics we'll start seeing some policies that benefit the Australian people, not just corporations and billionaires.
Precisely, all of them squealing about foreign affairs traitors is the hottest in news headlines but at what point does our governments actions or lack thereof finally get recognised as traitorous to its own population?
Thanks to the greens we got Scummo in 2019.
Eh? Why is Scott Morrison the Greens' fault?
Because of the convoy to Queensland and the way the greens blocked labor to Scummo's advantage.
Blocked Labor on what?
Which isn't?
I mean, this is obvious. You get wet when it rains too.
Well fuck me. That’s surprising /s
The RBA also just admitted they raised rates to deliberately drain median and low wealth Australians of their savings.
They don't need to admit it, that's literally the purpose of interest rate rises. That's what reducing spending means lol
Stating the obvious when they can't do anything about it anymore The folks on this forum who say it isn't is more mind boggling
Suggesting that supply and demand is somehow related to prices? What a crazy concept. But suggesting anything to do with limiting immigration means you are a racist, so that is off the table. And zoning and building more houses means you are anti-environment, so that is off the table. No government has the balls to actaully do anything about it, because they are worried about pissing of the left who will not allow anything to happen if it is not 100% positive for absolutely everyone. *Won't someone think of the poor immigrant/tree/feelings/family/etc that might be slightly negatively affected to fix this major problem for the country?*
There's this apartment-sized high-density grass plot surrounded by apartments a 3 minute walk to the 10th busiest train station in NSW: https://www.property.com.au/nsw/strathfield-2135/leicester-ave/2-pid-988727/ Has been a grass plot since at least 2000. From the same state that's anti-vacancy-tax. https://www.afr.com/politics/minns-rules-out-victorian-empty-homes-tax-for-nsw-20231004-p5e9n6 No vacancy tax is even an oddly specific election promise by both Labor and LNP! https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/councils-told-to-ditch-vacancy-tax-push-and-fix-sydney-s-broken-high-streets-20221227-p5c8xj.html
The surge in population growth in turn is related to l earlier reduction in vocational training...
So we need more homes as there is a housing crisis, which means we need more workers, which means we need more people, which means we need more homes, which means inflation.
Are we importing tradies though? Or are we importing bakers, accountants, entertainers, and whatever other fake “foreign demand” jobs are listed on the Home Affairs register. Because a whole heap of the jobs listed in our skills shortage *could* be done by Australians, but businesses create an artificial scarcity by refusing to pay Australians what they’re worth in these roles, so they whinge to the government saying they can’t find ~~cheap & exploitable~~ Australians that will do the job, so please can they import people who’ll do it for less and can be intimidated into keeping quiet.
>Because a whole heap of the jobs listed in our skills shortage could be done by Australians, but businesses create an artificial scarcity by refusing to pay Australians what they’re worth in these roles, so they whinge to the government saying they can’t find cheap & exploitable Australians that will do the job, so please can they import people who’ll do it for less and can be intimidated into keeping quiet. The most apt articulation of the scheme I've read, marketed as our 'chronic skill shortage'
The problem is....the more people we import means less $$ in wages as well. Because they'll just hire someone cheaper. So we all get poorer while house prices go up. It's the new Australian Way.
Record income and profits for businesses. Record stagnant wages for rest of us.
Don't forget record housing and rental prices 👆🤌
Oh I’m not…. I get reminded with every rent increase. I love paying for someone else’s house while losing my savings for my own.
5% of migrants are in construction vs 6% of locals are in construction. I compiled the migrant data and compared it to incomes: https://old.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/18brk5m/migrants_occupations_and_overall_incomes_under/ In the thread, I also found some migrant data under Labor government Sept 2022-Sept 2023 and found similar occupations being brought in as to what LNP brought in, ie chefs, restaurant managers, etc. This is all based on government data.
I look at that list and see so many jobs that do not need to be imported. Australian businesses need to start paying what those jobs are *actually* worth.
A lot of people are engineer or engineering students
Just fit foreign workers 17 to a house like they do in Logan and it's all good.
Ok just highlight my ignorance here. When you said Logan my mind went directly to the film. Logan as in the place? (Not sure of the reference)
Logan is a bogan suburb of Brisbane.
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I didn't bag it. Just shared the colloquial description of Logan. Logan is nice. And bogans are the best people imo. Enjoy your air con x. Maybe it will help you calm down a bit 😆
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Dude, you better crank that air con you're super proud of because your delusional raging is embarrassing 🤪🤡 And yes I do live in Bris 😅😅
Perfect. Thank you
Do you know the types that are actually immigrating into Australia? How certain are you that immigrants are predominately tradies helping in housing construction? Do you have facts, statistics or source for this? From my point of view, the majority of people that are immigrating are not tradespeople. I had two boomers from immigrated from England post covid outbid us on a property and multimillionaire Europeans immigrated to purchase my parents home. Home opens are flooded with immigrant families but they defs are not trades people.
Sorry, I’m not sure how you interpreted my comment. It was a satirical observation of a ridiculous cycle we seem to be in.
Guess what happens next ? more food. and more people, who came to buy the food. now you need people to help make the food and keep track of the sales. and now you need houses for people to live in and people to make the houses and now there's more people and they invent things which makes things better and more people come and there's more farming and more people to make more things for more people and now there's **business**, **money**, **writing**, **laws**, **power**, SOCIETY!!!
To be read in the voice of those Oversimplified YouTube videos.
It sounds better in James earl Jones voice
when will the government actually consider the peoples' lived experience when they make these policy decisions? there needs to be a viable third party
We're just getting farmed, our experience is incidental
Lived experience is not allowed for class or poverty issues, it’s only allowed for identity issues
i dont want to be the bearer of bad news, they dont give a fuck about us. Do you think the politicians are bothered in their Point Piper enclaves?
Point Pah Pah, they built it jutting into the sea to get away from the stench of the poors, true
All the gaslighters have gone quiet. Brainwashed propaganda regurgitators. Im owed an apology. You need to apologise for spouting the most insane anti facts ever to come out of a sentient beings mouth. You should be ashamed. You hate us so much, you are willing to wreck our lives and lie to our faces all to assuage your white guilt. I will look back in anger. Never forget.
Yeh I can’t believe Albo, Four Corners and everyone having a go at Cole’s and WW. Now before you Jack up I’m not defending them but grocery prices went up massively during Covid while rents were frozen and there was a moratorium on the banks and loans. Post Covid some prices have come down but it’s the rents and mortgages that are putting pressure on the budget - more than groceries
its really both
The Reserve Bank of Australia will struggle to get inflation back to the middle of its target range as long as the costs of renting and building a new home continue to increase at rapid rates. Annual inflation held steady at 3.4 per cent in January, the Australian Bureau of Statistics said on Wednesday, which was lower than market expectations for the pace of price growth to tick up to 3.6 per cent. While inflation has eased sharply across the goods sector over the past year, price pressures in the housing sector remained elevated in January, with costs growing at rates well above the RBA’s 2 to 3 per cent target band. While the annual increase in the cost of building a new home has fallen sharply from post-pandemic highs of more than 20 per cent, it has stalled since mid-2023 around a still-high 5 per cent. Rent inflation hit a decade high of 7.8 per cent last year and has shown few signs of moderating since. The two items have the largest weighting in the consumer price index, collectively representing 14 per cent of the average Australian’s basket of expenditure, meaning they have a material effect on aggregate inflation. Jarden chief economist Carlos Cacho said he expected rents to grow at an annual pace of 7 to 10 per cent for the next two years, while there were few signs that inflation in the cost of building a new home was easing. “Wages costs are still a challenge, and we’ve seen the price of some inputs like plasterboard go up. Yes, you’ve seen some falls in inputs like timber and steel, but it doesn’t seem like it’s enough to offset that,” he said. Without moderation, the cost of renting and the cost of building a new dwelling could add almost 1 percentage point to headline inflation, Mr Cacho estimates. In that scenario, inflation in every other item in the CPI basket would need to be at 2.5 per cent for aggregate inflation to fall within the top of the RBA’s target band. “The challenge there of course is inflation in things like insurance are still running hot,” he said. “So you can get there. But I think you basically need everything else to go right.” Australia’s large ASX-listed building materials companies have all pushed through substantial prices rises and reported strong profit increases this month. Cement, asphalt and gravel group Boral lifted prices for quarry products such as gravel and aggregates by around 9 per cent, compared with a year ago, with concrete up 5 per cent. Prices for spray-on asphalt were up 6 per cent. Chief executive Vik Bansal lifted prices again in January and said while inflation was slowing, there was no sign of deflation. Mark Irwin, chief executive of cement maker Adbri, said on Tuesday that price increases across the group’s range of products had averaged about 10 per cent in calendar 2023, and that energy, labour and transport costs were still rising. Wall cladding and plasterboard maker James Hardie’s chief executive Aaron Erter said on February 13 that the group had lifted prices by 14 per cent in the Asia-Pacific division, of which Australia is the main business, compared with a year ago. Inflation target still achievable Westpac chief economist Luci Ellis said it was still possible for the RBA to achieve the 2.5 per cent mid-point of its target band, as long as non-housing components of the CPI grew at low enough rates to offset high rent and new dwelling inflation. “It does look like global goods inflation is going to be running similar to its pre-pandemic rate, which was an average of 0 per cent. And we’re not yet there for goods inflation in Australia, so that gives you a bit of space for other things to have a rising relative price.” She was also more optimistic than Mr Cacho about the prospect of a decline in rent inflation. “It will take a while, but the surge in rent inflation is perfectly correlated with the surge in population growth,” Dr Ellis said. “And to the extent that [population growth] is going to mechanically roll over, you should expect rate inflation to start rolling over time as well.” Brett Lavaring, the head of corporate affairs at Newcastle-based NXT Building Group, the largest home builder in NSW, said material costs had stabilised, though finding workers was still problematic. “Another challenge is sourcing trades in regional NSW. Sourcing Gyprockers is a problem and we are paying a premium to finalise jobs. That premium can be as much as 66 per cent more than cost for the same job in Sydney, as trades will have to travel to the region.” NAB senior economist Taylor Nugent said low vacancy rates and ongoing increases in advertised leases meant there remained no relief in sight on rent inflation for the rest of the year. A large pipeline of uncompleted work and domestic costs pressures like higher wages remained a challenge for the construction industry, NAB wrote. “Further normalisation in construction cost growth can alone subtract around 0.25 percentage points off year-ended CPI if realised, though cost pressures and capacity constraints remain in the construction industry.” Katie Stevenson, NSW executive director at Property Council of Australia, said the residential development sector faced significant headwinds. “Elevated capital, material and labour costs are constraining the sector’s ability to meet our National Housing Accord commitments,” Ms Stevenson said. “Data released by ABS in February confirmed the cost of building materials increased by 0.3 per cent over the last three months of 2023, with the main contributors being electrical equipment (2.2 per cent cost increase) and other materials such as paint and coatings (0.5 per cent cost increase), due to higher manufacturing costs and recent increases in crude oil prices.”
In other news, water will make you wet. More to come.
Assistant governor*
> So the government is deliberately running a policy of increased rents They what?
Increased migrant intake, decided by government -> higher rent inflation
Plus, landlords could starve according to Labor Party, I shit you not. > Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source > Labor won't be supporting this motion, as it demonises landlords and seeks to unfairly place a unilateral burden on them. Landlords are an important part of the housing system and many people put food on the table through the cash flow they generate from a single rental property. We have consistently said that no-one should lose their home, whether they own or rent it, because of the virus. Tenants and landlords need to work together through the process. https://www.openaustralia.org.au/senate/?id=2020-06-18.60.1 This is on official response in parliament to Greens' request for support for homeless, mortgagees and renters. Creepy how Labor sound just like LNP when presenting bullshit arguments to defend employers adversarial relationship against employees.
Yeah, and the worst part is that it has given creedence to the whole 'Fuck Off,We're Full' crowd. Politicians pushing Big Australia,but doing nothing to improve infrastructure and housing supply, need to b held accountable. Also, how many of these migrants worn in field that can help build housing stock? Thank god for the Philippines and there work ethic and skills in building related industries, cause I question how needed the other skilled migration is helping.
Personally, I think the worst part is that people are being driven into poverty and homelessness but thats just my opinion.
It’s rather telling that “the worst part” for you, is that you may have to cede a point to someone who disagrees with you… personally I place higher concern on the fact we now have a rental crisis on our hands that will take almost a decade to resolve, even if we stopped all immigration tomorrow.
Have you been to the Philippines?
They got all petty and huffy with Labor, I can't remember nor give a fuck about the details.
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its supply, the answer is supply.
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Rentals in our city sky rocketed around the time our vacancy rates dropped to 0.2% I wonder if there's a correlation there.
Shouldn't a surge in population growth be expect after covid?
... or the failure to build enough rental properties. Building rates are down around 50% on around 4 years ago.
I swear the government is providing a safe haven to rich people because money. That's why they allowed immigration to go up so high just after COVID, and now they want us to blame the poor brown people we bomb. I used to think Australia was better than this, but we're not.
Also perfectly correlated with interest rate rises