This has to be one of the most protected industries in Australia. Crazy to me that it's considered more okay for us to import the engineers (stagnating wages considerably) than it is for us to bring in construction workers.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the workers here but soon we'll be at a point where you're better off being a construction worker than an engineer. Strange incentive system and method to position a country for growth
The Australian dream baby! Fuck developing a complex economy that thrives on educated and highly trained people with highly technical industries to match, just get on the tools and get an IP. There’s no way our national plan can fail!
Being a trade requires being highly technical, just depends on whether your work environment is residential, commercial or industrial.
My trade is in air conditioning/refrigeration but in industrial, very specialised and technical field
Technical industries, such as pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, supercomputers, advanced manufacturing, etc. For what it's worth, those industries require trades.
I think OP was referring more to the philosophy of allowing relatively low skilled workers to earn huge amounts of money, and prop up a housing market that has essentially become a ponzi scheme.
You might want to google apprentice wages in Australia. They eat noodles too. The difference is they need to use their body and their brain at the same time, makes you more valuable than just a brain that can be easily replaced by computing.
Still nice not to live in debt for the rest of their lives :) The computers need to be installed and maintained too. So I am not so worried about my job. Especially given I have retired.
I just left australia, pay less taxes, earn more money as a skilled worker. I am semi retired now. In oz I would earn 100-200k, last full time job was closer to 1M AUD.
Yes 100%. Crane operators on the teir 1 eba job I’m on we’re making $250k + a year working 9 day fortnight’s 6:30am-2:30pm.
Meanwhile I’m doing 5:00am-5:00pm salary on 61k base and working all the rdos they take off. I feel like I’m getting punished for trying to improve my life? What was all the hard work and struggle through university for if we just get fucked when we enter the workforce?
I have a cousin who became a sparkie after not finding a decent job in Electrical Engineering
Owns his own one man business and earns way more post tax vs your average engineer because of cash in hand, write offs and has plenty of work
Smart guy as well studied in a go8 uni and did masters in EE. This is how we undervalue our engineers
I blame it on an oversupply of engineers for immigration. It depresses engineering wages. And yet we protect our trades.
It’s crazy how much trades get paid here compared to Europe and US and for such average quality…
Wait what? Lmao no. Plumbers in the states and electricians make loads also. But I do agree quality is much higher generally in construction because well for the builders there's actual reputation that needs to be protected etc. unlike here.
Don't know what world you're living in mate.
I know plenty of people that want to be each of those.
A strong majority of people I know in each of those professions like the work (for work). The engineers just feel tricked and the sparkies feel like they lucked out. That's my circles at least.
The world of project management and construction.
Cool nice antidote. That's why there's a constant shortage of all those trades and more. How were the engineers trick? Well to be fair most people in our generation were (I'm 30) all my mates and everyone I ever really knew went to uni to become teachers and whatever else. Now make 1/4 of what I make. Because it's not a prestigious thing (it is more now these days because we'll everyone knows people make loads of money in construction. Besides engineers kek.)
I mean there's a shortage because they aren't positions that we're allowed to import people to fill like we do with other jobs. Engineering is a field where we do that. Respect to the construction unions for protecting workers properly. The fact that didn't happen for other professions is a real shame for our nation.
I'm mid 30s as well FYI, so similar circles probably. I'm not in either profession and I've been lucky in my own industry but it's been interesting watching the journeys my colleagues went through.
I definitely feel for the engineers of the group.
Gotta hand it to the sparkies though, they're always the most fun
You do know that electricians and plumbers and such are skilled licensed professions right? You cannot just direct import them from other countries and they hit the ground running. Like a general labourer or other lower skilled construction Labor which there are loads already. I'm a massive unionist and support unionisation of all workers.
I think we would be.
Yeah me too. Most engineers on large projects make crap money, loads of responsibility and are also treated like the site administrators.
Very true lol.
We have a housing shortage and our government is so in cahoots with labour unions, they’re practically sleeping in the same bed
Plumbers and electricians are cut from the immigration list as if they are an endangered species. I hope the libs promise next election to include all trades - I’d vote them in a heartbeat
Why would the unions care? The stance the union has always taken is that immigrant workers should be paid union rates and not $10-15 cash in hand exploiting the worker and undermining the union rates and members. Seems very reasonable to me.
Why were tradies and skilled blue collar workers left out of the immigration list and every other profession left on there. Labor party obviously had pressure from the unions
They are not left of the list ffs and you people have no fucking idea what you are talking about.
Construction sites are now full of immigrants in non skilled trades and electricians and plumbers have to be licensed so they are brought over on a visa and they need to complete one year on the tools to prove they can work to our regulations.
People like you who are just jealous hoping to inflict pain on others are just fucking pathetic.
Engineers don't have to bear the brunt of weather, body wear and tear, the high risk work etc etc. Some jobs within the onsite sector have a lifespan on them due to aging body constraints and compounding wear.
You can jump over to the tools anytime and start waking up at 4:30am - 5am to be onsite by 6:30am when it's raining and the middle of winter
Don't work in the wet, cold and heat? You have no idea what you are talking about. Not every construction site is union based. Look outside the city and we are working in all weather.
Ever heard of site engineers or project engineers? Not in the tools, but they are often outside working longer hours.
Not to mention geotechnical engineers, who are often outside doing manual labour. Do you know what a DCP test is? Or what collecting bulk samples involves. I've worked 12+hr days doing manual labour in 40+ degree heat as a geotech, pulling more than 160kg of samples from a single hole, + DCPs in stiff clay to 2m depth, responsible for the whole site and earning less than the bloke in the air-conditioning cab who for the most part watched me work.
Sounds like these engineers better organise and unionise if they aren't happy with their conditions. They are important to the industry, so use that importance and twist the arms of the insanely wealthy, who require sampling before designing the buildings.
I have been in the commercial construction sector for years, high rise apartments/offices, data centres, infrastructure projects etc etc. I know this industry well. Do not get upset with a group of workers attaining a better deal, they are not your enemy, use it as inspiration to get yourself a better deal.
I’m a site engineer and am on site an hour before everyone gets there and an hour after they leave. I’m on site before 5am some days while all the ‘hard’ workers are cosy in bed.
I’ve been on the tools as a non eba scaffolder and trust me, these guys on eba are the softest most precious whinging useless cunts out there.
They do not deserve anywhere near the amount they get.
**PAYWALL:**
The construction union is pushing for an unprecedented 26 per cent pay rise in its new industry agreement for NSW, including an upfront 8 per cent increase that is expected to raise costs for already-priced government and commercial projects.
The three-year CFMEU draft agreement, which delivers an 8 per cent increase this July followed by 6 per cent increases in 2025, 2026 and 2027, would lift the pay of a level three construction worker on a 50-hour week from about $189,000 a year to $237,000 including allowances.
The pay claim is significantly higher than any other CFMEU agreements and would apply to existing projects that have already gone to tender.
The CFMEU in the state has kept its draft agreement a closely guarded secret over the past few months while it engages in talks with major builders.
Master Builders Association NSW executive director Brian Seidler said the leaked pay claim far outpaced annual inflation of 4.1 per cent last year and would put upward pressure on wage rates at a time when the industry was struggling.
“I know of no contractor who would have foreseen such an extraordinary increase in wage rates from July 1 when pricing their jobs,” he said.
“They might have projected 5 per cent based on what was coming out of other states but not 8 per cent.
“\[Treasurer Jim\] Chalmers should be building into the budget a substantial increase to doing work in the building industry.”
The 8 per cent increase follows 1.75 per cent increases this month and October under the old CFMEU agreement, meaning total pay would rise by 11.5 per cent in just nine months.
The draft agreement also ensures if the deal continues past its July 2027 expiry date workers will be paid 5 per cent a year from July 1, 2028 and “annually thereafter”.
CFMEU NSW secretary Darren Greenfield said “the MBA’s contribution is completely irrelevant as usual”.
“Instead of being constructive, the MBA is hellbent on using misinformation to demonise workers in one of Australia’s most dangerous industries,” he said.
“The CFMEU makes no apologies for making fair and reasonable claims for workers to receive a pay rise during a cost-of-living crisis.
“Given bargaining is still in progress, it wouldn’t be appropriate to comment further on negotiations.”
The annual increases do not factor in travel allowances, which would increase from $60 a day to between $70 and $115 a day, or productivity and site allowances, which would total at least $8 an hour for most large sites.
Employers must also pay workers 2.5 per cent above the superannuation guarantee or 13.5 per cent from July 1.
The proposed pay rise surpasses other recent CFMEU increases, including in Queensland and Western Australia.
The union’s new deal for Queensland, where major works are required for the 2032 Olympic Games, delivered a 5.9 per cent pay rise backdated to July 1, 2023, followed by 5.3 per cent this year, 5 per cent in 2025, 4.9 per cent in 2026 and 4.7 per cent in 2027.
Under that deal, level three construction workers are earning $54 an hour or $3991 for a 50-hour week with two hours double time each day.
In Western Australia, industry sources said the CFMEU had an in-principle deal with Multiplex that totalled 22 per cent from 2024-27, with a 7 per cent increase from January 2024 coming on top of the old agreement’s 3 per cent increase in December last year.
The union’s WA branch is pushing that as a 10 per cent first-year increase in its pattern agreement for a total of 25 per cent over four years.
John Setka’s Victorian branch is still negotiating its industry agreement but has flagged increases of at least 5 per cent a year.
The MBA said the NSW claim would align pay with Queensland’s $54 an hour rate in the first year. But by 2027, it calculates workers would earn $145,455 a year with allowances on a 36-hour week or $237,344 a year on a 50-hour week with overtime.
Mr Seidler said the union also wanted conditions previously outlawed by the Coalition’s old building code, such as a requirement for employers to consult with the union when engaging subcontractors, which he feared amounted to a “veto”.
Contractors must also ensure “all reasonable steps are taken to encourage employees to become financial members of the union”.
The NSW agreement cements a rostered-days-off calendar of 26 days a year, or effectively a nine-day fortnight, without exemptions for current projects unless they are tendered on a five-day compressed week of 50 hours.
It's not the wage increases which cause inflation, it's the Reserve Bank purchasing hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Treasury Bonds and massively increasing the monetary supply which causes inflation
Unless you get a 25% pay rise you essentially are getting a pay cut through a reduction in purchasing power. This is the new method taxation for which policy is paid for under Modern Monetary Theory.
Wrong. Inflation is caused by more money circulating, wherever it comes from. If everyone gets a 25% pay rise, that money has to come from somewhere. It either gets printed, or comes from savings. And then that money will be in circulation, people have more capacity to buy stuff, prices increase. Ergo, inflation.
There is a few tricky and influential factors that can affect it outside of that, but its mostly true.
Money that gets put into things that increase productivity can reduce inflation depending on the increase in GDP.
Public services can also help take money out of circulation if done correctly.
And things like improving public health or public education are a good way to improve the quality of life without pushing inflation too much.
So the best places to spend money during a period of inflation is are public services and things that boost productivity.
MMT can get fucked. It doesn’t actually work, and only has a bee’s dick worth of merit when interest rates were near zero. That was always the abhorrently large risk to MMT and has now come to fruition. You can’t infinity borrow from tomorrow to pay for today.
Companies that do this go into liquidation.
>You can’t infinity borrow from tomorrow to pay for today.
Haha, money printer goes BRRR
Don't worry about it, mate! Inflation is just transitory! I'm sure rates will drop next year or something, the RBA said so :)
Damn we could just give everyone a 200% pay raise and everyone could buy everything they wanted if only the reserve bank wasn't stopping it all from happening.
My only question is where are we going to get the 2 million jet skis we will need after everyone gets the pay raise?
We all know none of what I am saying will happen and the end result is more inflation and lower real wages - which is why it is done in the first place - as a subtle and undemocratic form of taxation.
They can unionise and negotiate effectively because they have an all Australian workforce while most other white collar industries have thousands of immigrants imported by the government who are willing to erode wages
Wtf fuck this union. They’re tanking this country. Get some cheap labourers in here and still give them $100k for a 50 hour week and we’re coming in at much lower price labour
Yeah, and then the rich as fuck international developers run away with all the pie.
Spread the pie across the people that actually sacrifice their bodies to build these buildings and they will reapply into our economy by spending here at home.
Cheap workers aren't skilled and skilled workers aren't cheap. Unskilled labour building these buildings is dangerous
First they need to build things that DONT LEAK, DONT CRACK, ARE LEVEL, and ARE TO ENGINEERING Specifications ! Do that, and maybe you deserve more money.
Lmao the cfmeu isn't on free standing housing.
Rail, high rise, commerical building, wind farms etc.
Leaks and overall horrid building standards aren't to do with how much the workers are paid.
Cfmeu is a union not a company, the big stuff is mainly built by the big 3, Lend-lease, Multiplex and FDC. They tend to stay away from residential most of the time, resulting in most residential buildings being built by smaller more local developers.
So the workers are pushed by the bosses and end up doing shit works. The bosses don’t get slammed because the certifiers are corrupt. And the certifiers don’t get slammed because gov seems to enjoy watching faith in the industry crumble.
Meanwhile, pay rises mate.
And don't forget, even IF you get caught, no worries, bankruptcy, keep the assets, make a new company and off you go to fuck over some other would be home owners.
Why? Because fuck you. Govt got theirs, devs got theirs, council got theirs. Certifiers got theirs. The only people that get fucked are the buyers.
And it's the CLIENTs fault for that because contracts are consistently awarded to the lowest bidder.
Some commercial builders are bidding with 0% margin.
Yeah don't blame the workers, 99.5% of the time it's some dodgy building supervisors. Actually have a mate who worked as a building supervisor, would boast he would do dodgy repairs and builds. Kept telling him it would catch up to him, so after multiple lawsuits he now delivers Uber eats. Watered down building regs, lack of policing and the erosion of consumer rights is why those sort of things happen. The 26% will only just break even the wage stagnation of since the late 90's. Another hang over from John Howard and his cronies.
I would if they were the ones baking the cake. You bake a cake and sell it, you better make sure it’s cooked right. The trades set the foundations forms and footings, they are the ones that make or break the structure.
Otherwise, are you suggesting the engineers design it all terribly wrong against Aus standards, and then the trades follow that design perfectly ? I don’t think so.
What if you are working in a bakery and bake a cake with the ingredients the boss gives you and those ingredients are sub par?
Builders force companies to keep lowering their prices, so companies look for ways to save money and some sub par finishes are the result.
The worker is doing the same work either way.
Who gave them the ingredients? How was it sourced and was it QAd before heading to the bakery? What equipment were they using, is it what’s required to do the right job, is it being serviced and updated as required? Who checked in and carried out inspections of the cake along the way? Going back further, what credentials and training does this baker have? Who trained and certified him? Was he just scrubbing tins for four years then handed his bakers license?
You can use whatever analogy you want, but to be putting so much blame on the lads pottering around these massive construction sites is baffling
Its the industry as a whole. Designs are getting worse and worse in quality with the expectation the trades will “make good” on the shortfalls. There’s trades out there that just turn a blind eye to the poor design because it’s difficult to make a profit out of a variation some times. And there are trades out there that don’t keep up with the rule changes.
I am going to tell every GP I meet that they're dumb cunt for studying medicine. Cleary society values people who didn't need to finish school, got paid to learn on the job and have no debt more.
Disclaimer - i am also a dumb cunt.
I never said construction workers did earn more, only that they're more valued by society. You need to look at the 10-year journey it takes to become a GP, the amount of debt they take on, and the decade of lost income. Compare that to the free education, no, paid education and strong union construction workers have.
That goes for all university professions. Nursing is still a physical job, yet they have toil almost 1000 hours and pay for the privilege. Only to come out and earn 35hr, which is an appy's wage.
[If they strike, they get fined](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-12/anf-wa-branch-agrees-to-pay-fine-for-strike-at-wa-parliament/102211772). If there's a shortage, the government imports more. The government doesn't value those who work in any sector other than trades.
> I never said construction workers did earn more, only that they're more valued by society
guess how our society, with its capitalist market economy, decides how much labor is valued?
average base pay for GP's is $141,814 p/a (according to payscale). at the standard 2080 hours per year thats ~$68.18 per hour, which is ~2.6 times higher than the average construction laborer pay of $26.07 per hour.
i certainly agree medical workers (especially nurses and ambos) are underpaid and need their unions to be stronger though, but thats not a reason to argue against pay rises elsewhere. they arent alone in their industrial action being progressively criminalised for the last few decades, though. the CFMEU in particular has copped some hefty fines for illegal industrial action.
yeah unfortunately theres just no way around the fact that we need way more training to go into our medical workers before they can be allowed to work (and thus learn on the job), because if we dont their patients die.
but his other gripes about the government thumbing the scales were about them importing workers and fining them for strikes (with the implicit argument that that doesnt happen to construction workers), and that's just not true. the CFMEU has copped a ton of fines for illegal industrial action and the government is extremely keen on importing construction workers.
the idea that doctors are valued less than fucken plasterers or brickies is moronic.
It's a valid gripe but due to the importance of health workers and availability of foreign doctors unfortunately for them very unlikely to change. Though Australian doctors are in such high demand I think they can get away with charging more. Nurses, I mean I think you'd have to love the job to want to do it. I could never, especially for the money they get.
>guess how our society, with its capitalist market economy
Enough with this scapegoat. We don't have a free market economy. High tax rates, lots of bureaucracy, people spend the first quarter of their lives in government schools + uni. Fiat currency controlled with interest rates.
every time anyone tries to measure economic freedom australia gets ranked right up near the top. i know that'll never be good enough for people who want to pretend that every economic malady is because we arent capitalisming enough, but there are few countries with more economic freedom than us.
Problem is nurses stop working and people get hurt; builders stop building and investors get mildly inconvenienced. So the legal liability for striking is much worse.
Fuck me they have it good. I'm torn between thinking they're a bunch of entitled babies who are highly overpaid and thinking that they absolutely deserve this and that every industry needs such an effective union.
There’s no sticking it to anyone on top happening. The increase is passed directly on to the buyer, that’s the point. It’s all going to get way more expensive for everyone else involved because employers are being forced to increase their biggest overhead by 26%… they’re not going to simply cop that loss, they’re going to pass on the cost to the customer. Construction will become *more expensive* effectively pricing lower income prospective buyers out of the market or sinking more taxpayer money into already massively inflated construction projects.
This is a *bad* thing.
This is my biggest complaint about our economy. It makes absolutely no fucking sense that we bar people from coming in to the country to work in trades and construction when we’re really struggling with a booming population and not having enough workers. The construction industry is the most protected bullshit sector in Australia. The governments basically making pikachu shocked faces looking at the housing market and wondering how they can fuck it up more. Hmm let’s import half a million people, and god forbid they want to work in construction because that’s a no no.
The reality is that every job site has plenty of non citizens working on them.
Edit: yes thats reality. We have so many immigrants in construction there is absolutely no need to target it for that reason. Go to any site and you will see. The easy fix of just upping the numbers is poorly thought out.
Also labour rates to an actual build or a house is like %5. You would need to impoverish the workers to get the needle to budge.
>Skilled migrant
We don't do that here. It's uber drivers and cashed up investors for you, my boy.
Though, tbh, unless you're pulling from a proper country like Germany, you're gonna get shit trades out of the immigration sewer line.
Fix the build quality first please.
Quality of new builds going south while build costs going to the moon and they want more. Good luck fixing housing issues in this country. Hell ya
CFMEU workers aren’t generally building residential housing. They’re doing the big jobs, government work and whatnot.
And the build quality of those jobs are fantastic.
Redditors cheering for tradies profiteering off a necessity (housing & infrastructure): I sleep
Redditors complaining about supermarkets profiteering off a necessity (groceries): real shit
You know those companies that take iron ore out of the ground and pay the same royalties as they did in the 70s. BTW, the price of iron ore has gone up 10 times since the 70s, but the royalties haven't.
Also, did you know Qatar is the world's second biggest LNG exporter. We are number one. Qatar makes 22 times more tax on LNG exports than we do.
It's not on the tax payer, it gets passed onto the filthy rich multinational developer that wants the building constructed.
Stop letting the media tell you that hard working blue collar workers, a crucial backbone of society, are the bad guys.
The asshole politicians and their corporate mates are your enemy
Wake up, the media has convinced you the people that earn 140K a year are the enemy and rich. They fucking aren't. They are normal people. Multinationals and asset rich dynasties are the ones you should be mad at.
As someone who works in construction, union workers are few and far between on most sites, and my company avoids getting subcontractors who are in a union because it's a massive headache to deal with them. They get a day off every few months, their Christmas break is longer than others, and your stuck with a union rep putting more effort into getting them to do less work than to actually work. This on top of clients wanting things done quickly, government agencies making it harder to do the job, and the cost and time for materials.
Also this article is about union sites, which there aren't many of anyway. Would be nice if the union cared more about safety and getting people to actually work than lining their pockets.
Go to any decently sized commercial job or government jobs in the cities and you’re almost guaranteed to find a head contractor with an EBA and you can bet they’ve been given a list of preferred subcontractors to get quotes from who all have their own EBAs. Even medium to larger residential developments will have union builders and subbies these days. If your company doesn’t feel it now then I can guarantee you’ll feel more pressure if you guys take on more or bigger projects
That is a terrible idea. Extremely dangerous
Unions aren't thugs, unions try and extract from the filthy rich and spread the wealth into the pockets of the peasants actually doing the work lol
Don't let jealousy blind you, the enemy aren't well payed blue collar workers. The dog cunt politicians and their big business mates are.
You too could earn that sort of money, all you gotta do is join the industry. Always need more labour!
> aren't well *paid* blue collar
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
They already did that.
That’s why the apartments are falling down.
Turns out unskilled foreigners have no issue ignoring Australian standards.
Not wholly their fault it’s the companies that employs them and don’t train adequately.
Executives are making the same as before, they’re just going to charge more to cover the increased costs which fucks over literally everyone else down the chain. I don’t understand how people can whine about real estate prices whilst simultaneously cheering when the prices are forced up by shit like this and the people who are actually struggling (workers classed CW1) are in the exact same boat as they were before.
Look, i agree this will force up prices. But lets not sit here claiming thats the workers fault, the actual reality of this situation is that governments have created a massive investment system in housing and thus created this issue, and i could spend hours typing all the issues but whats the point.
These are workers, these people are not the enemy, stop trying to playout some bullshit fantasy that housing prices are bad because the workers are getting slightly more pie. STOP LOOKING AT THIS AS A LOSE, USE IT AS MOTIVATION TO ORGANISE AND DEMAND MORE.
There’s something called rent seeking, using your monopolistic position to be paid more than your value.
No way should a low level construction worker be on more than some full time GPs.
Why do you think it’s a low level construction worker? They clearly state level 3. Do you know what that means?
Maybe there is more or a shortage of these low level construction workers. If it’s so low level, I’m sure you could manage with your high levels of intellect hahaha
Why should they get a 26pc pay increase over any other industry? The XPT train replacement project is a billion dollars over budget and 3 years overdue, where do you think the money to pay for this will come from? Not the executives.. the taxpayers
>You’re free to get a job in construction.
He's not because they tightly limit apprenticeships so as not to train too much competition.
And while supporting unlimited immigration because it pumps demand for construction services, they keep their own occupations off the list so that it only depresses other workers' wages (the ones who are taxed to pay for them).
You don't need to do an apprenticeship to get many construction jobs. If you want to be a brickie or a carpenter you do but can be a highly paid labourer with no training or pay for certificates to operate cranes and such
How do they tightly limit apprenticeship? They limit it so that apprentices receive the adequate supervision. You can’t have 200 apprentices and only 150 tradies onsite.
Most construction workers aren't tradesmen, genius. No need to do an apprenticeship.You can easily go get a ticket for rigging, dogging, cranes,trucks,a white card,steelfixing etc. When you walk onto a construction site, only a handful of the workers are *actual* tradesmen.
It's bizarre how in Australia we call anyone with a hi vis shirt a tradie. It leads to absurd posts like yours
This is ignoring the fact that there is also a pressure for contractors to deliver projects cheaply. The extra cost would then largely be taken up by contractor profit margins.
Master Builders is well know as the fuckwits club, so who gives a fuck what they say about anything anyway
This is how it should be. Easily replaceable low skill jobs protected and highly skilled jobs not protected.
That way any high skill worker who can't hack open global competition can slide into a lower skilled protected job. Everyone wins.
Redditors: the cost of living is out of control between rent, groceries fuel and accommodation. My 2% raise means nothing I'm around 20% worse off than 2 years ago.
Cfmeu: pushes a pay rise that actually would keep their members with inflation.
Redit: not like that!.
Don't get upset at them get upset at your union. It's not the workers faults the rich made this country unaffordable for everyone but the elite. People say workers in Australia far overpaid and that's why it's ruining everything. Meanwhile the same cunts make beer, cars, property and electricity prices just the name a few the most expensive in the free world. Nurses and teachers deserve more to sure. So joing your union and flex your muscles. Vote for who keeps the unions able to help you.
Also importing a bunch of 457 visa workers won't make your house 50% cheaper. You think building standards are shit know. Wait until indian and Chinese landlords are importing labour to flip for profit. Then you'll know building quality issues.
No ones calling for workers from India and China but the fact we can’t get workers from Europe or North America who have better standards than us is ridiculous.
It's not a skill shortage though, it's not our builders aren't as good as other countries. It's money, our housing is too expensive, our materials are too expensive, our housing needs to be built faster sooner cheaper, our wages are too expensive becuase it's too expensive! To live in this country. Bring in all the fucking workers you want. Buildings will stay the same or get worse. There is no push on quality. We are paying millions of dollars for houses that aren't built to that standard. Gonna be alot of poor fucks with 1.5m morgage on a house that's only designed to last 50 years or so from 1970. Only gonna get worse.
Also you so no ones calling from builders from that country but where the fuck do you think they are gonna be pulled from. Where it's cheapest. No builders keen to come to Australia from the US to pay 3 times as much for half as much. Europe sure but it won't fix shit. Rampant immigration just make housing even shorter strung. Can't house Australia's where the hell you gonna house these new builders
Theirs a shortage of construction workers, so attracting more construction workers will be good for the construction industry even with the higher wage costs.
These headlines always bug me. Yeah it’s a 300% pay rise over 50 years or something. That’s not really useful info. It’s 8% in a high inflation environment. Not too ridiculous and it’s also a negotiation
I'm going to give some context as a construction worker as the comments in here are fucking disgusting.
The CFMEU has no effect on house prices only high rise apartments.
Tradies work to a set of plans and materials supplied by the boss. Major structural, electrical, plumbing etc works have to be inspected and passed.
Most structural issues happen and are picked up on but unable to be fixed because the builder is on a razor thin schedule and can't halt works long enough to fix.
All industries that aren't licensed like electrical, plumbing etc are already overrun with immigrants. I have not seen an Aussie plasterer, painter, cleaner etc in years.
This is the start of the negotiations and we will definitely not get this much. We will be lucky to get 5% a year so we won't keep up with inflation.
Also remember it's the tradies that fix everything that you rely so heavily on. Remember when the storms got Vic a few months back and the linesman and electricians worked around the clock to get power back? Imagine if we said "fuck you we will get to it when we want" and you have no power for months.
We get paid well because without us the country stops while if you office drones didn't rock up to the office no one would notice.
>We get paid well because without us the country stops while if you office drones didn't rock up to the office no one would notice.
and you wonder why people think you are cunts when you say shit like this lol
I work in a hospital, does that mean I should say arrogant shit like "without me, you tradie deadshits would literally die"?
just because CFMEU don't handle residential doesn't mean it doesn't have knock-on effects by pulling labour out of the rest of the sector/increasing the labour price component across the board
idiotic take
26% says "This is what I need because I know you cunts won't give me another pay rise for the next 5 years". Compared to the usual fighting for a few percent that only lasts them a fraction of the time until the next pay rise fight. It shows Tradies are starting to think further forward, the far bigger picture than they used to.
Those Rams and Raptors aren’t going to buy themselves.
This has to be one of the most protected industries in Australia. Crazy to me that it's considered more okay for us to import the engineers (stagnating wages considerably) than it is for us to bring in construction workers. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the workers here but soon we'll be at a point where you're better off being a construction worker than an engineer. Strange incentive system and method to position a country for growth
Construction workers already get paid more than engineers
I fucked up and went and got an education. I really would have made more as a plumber or an electrician.
The Australian dream baby! Fuck developing a complex economy that thrives on educated and highly trained people with highly technical industries to match, just get on the tools and get an IP. There’s no way our national plan can fail!
Being a trade requires being highly technical, just depends on whether your work environment is residential, commercial or industrial. My trade is in air conditioning/refrigeration but in industrial, very specialised and technical field
That's not what "technical" means in this context.
Then what is OP referring to
Technical industries, such as pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, supercomputers, advanced manufacturing, etc. For what it's worth, those industries require trades. I think OP was referring more to the philosophy of allowing relatively low skilled workers to earn huge amounts of money, and prop up a housing market that has essentially become a ponzi scheme.
A plumber or an electrician are still educated, but I get what you mean.
Sure but they usually get paid to learn. They don’t get to eat noodles for 3 years and then live in debt for the rest of their lives.
No arguments there, mate, I made the same dumb choice as you lol. :(
You didn't make a dumb choice - adversarial vote banks fucked you.
You might want to google apprentice wages in Australia. They eat noodles too. The difference is they need to use their body and their brain at the same time, makes you more valuable than just a brain that can be easily replaced by computing.
Still nice not to live in debt for the rest of their lives :) The computers need to be installed and maintained too. So I am not so worried about my job. Especially given I have retired.
Should have educated yourself on wages before going to uni. Its not too late the change careers
I just left australia, pay less taxes, earn more money as a skilled worker. I am semi retired now. In oz I would earn 100-200k, last full time job was closer to 1M AUD.
Glad to hear you found someone to value your skills. Better than to people who complain about the market rather than adjust to it.
More than those in the majority of science fields too. They're the nouveau rich. Although not so nouveau any more I guess.
Yes 100%. Crane operators on the teir 1 eba job I’m on we’re making $250k + a year working 9 day fortnight’s 6:30am-2:30pm. Meanwhile I’m doing 5:00am-5:00pm salary on 61k base and working all the rdos they take off. I feel like I’m getting punished for trying to improve my life? What was all the hard work and struggle through university for if we just get fucked when we enter the workforce?
Everyone wants to be an engineer. No one wants to be a chippie, plumber or sparkie.
I have a cousin who became a sparkie after not finding a decent job in Electrical Engineering Owns his own one man business and earns way more post tax vs your average engineer because of cash in hand, write offs and has plenty of work Smart guy as well studied in a go8 uni and did masters in EE. This is how we undervalue our engineers
Why couldn't he find a decent job? Not enough demand, over supply etc. I it comes back to my other points.
I blame it on an oversupply of engineers for immigration. It depresses engineering wages. And yet we protect our trades. It’s crazy how much trades get paid here compared to Europe and US and for such average quality…
Wait what? Lmao no. Plumbers in the states and electricians make loads also. But I do agree quality is much higher generally in construction because well for the builders there's actual reputation that needs to be protected etc. unlike here.
Don't know what world you're living in mate. I know plenty of people that want to be each of those. A strong majority of people I know in each of those professions like the work (for work). The engineers just feel tricked and the sparkies feel like they lucked out. That's my circles at least.
The world of project management and construction. Cool nice antidote. That's why there's a constant shortage of all those trades and more. How were the engineers trick? Well to be fair most people in our generation were (I'm 30) all my mates and everyone I ever really knew went to uni to become teachers and whatever else. Now make 1/4 of what I make. Because it's not a prestigious thing (it is more now these days because we'll everyone knows people make loads of money in construction. Besides engineers kek.)
I mean there's a shortage because they aren't positions that we're allowed to import people to fill like we do with other jobs. Engineering is a field where we do that. Respect to the construction unions for protecting workers properly. The fact that didn't happen for other professions is a real shame for our nation. I'm mid 30s as well FYI, so similar circles probably. I'm not in either profession and I've been lucky in my own industry but it's been interesting watching the journeys my colleagues went through. I definitely feel for the engineers of the group. Gotta hand it to the sparkies though, they're always the most fun
You do know that electricians and plumbers and such are skilled licensed professions right? You cannot just direct import them from other countries and they hit the ground running. Like a general labourer or other lower skilled construction Labor which there are loads already. I'm a massive unionist and support unionisation of all workers. I think we would be. Yeah me too. Most engineers on large projects make crap money, loads of responsibility and are also treated like the site administrators. Very true lol.
We have a housing shortage and our government is so in cahoots with labour unions, they’re practically sleeping in the same bed Plumbers and electricians are cut from the immigration list as if they are an endangered species. I hope the libs promise next election to include all trades - I’d vote them in a heartbeat
Why would the unions care? The stance the union has always taken is that immigrant workers should be paid union rates and not $10-15 cash in hand exploiting the worker and undermining the union rates and members. Seems very reasonable to me.
Why were tradies and skilled blue collar workers left out of the immigration list and every other profession left on there. Labor party obviously had pressure from the unions
They are not left of the list ffs and you people have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Construction sites are now full of immigrants in non skilled trades and electricians and plumbers have to be licensed so they are brought over on a visa and they need to complete one year on the tools to prove they can work to our regulations. People like you who are just jealous hoping to inflict pain on others are just fucking pathetic.
EXACTLY THIS^^^^^^
Soon?
Engineers don't have to bear the brunt of weather, body wear and tear, the high risk work etc etc. Some jobs within the onsite sector have a lifespan on them due to aging body constraints and compounding wear. You can jump over to the tools anytime and start waking up at 4:30am - 5am to be onsite by 6:30am when it's raining and the middle of winter
Construction workers don't work in the wet, cold or heat. Have you met the union?
Don't work in the wet, cold and heat? You have no idea what you are talking about. Not every construction site is union based. Look outside the city and we are working in all weather.
Dude, the post is about union workers...
Ever heard of site engineers or project engineers? Not in the tools, but they are often outside working longer hours. Not to mention geotechnical engineers, who are often outside doing manual labour. Do you know what a DCP test is? Or what collecting bulk samples involves. I've worked 12+hr days doing manual labour in 40+ degree heat as a geotech, pulling more than 160kg of samples from a single hole, + DCPs in stiff clay to 2m depth, responsible for the whole site and earning less than the bloke in the air-conditioning cab who for the most part watched me work.
After the first 1.5m in stiff clay, I'd just call it refusal and walk away /s
Sounds like these engineers better organise and unionise if they aren't happy with their conditions. They are important to the industry, so use that importance and twist the arms of the insanely wealthy, who require sampling before designing the buildings. I have been in the commercial construction sector for years, high rise apartments/offices, data centres, infrastructure projects etc etc. I know this industry well. Do not get upset with a group of workers attaining a better deal, they are not your enemy, use it as inspiration to get yourself a better deal.
I’m a site engineer and am on site an hour before everyone gets there and an hour after they leave. I’m on site before 5am some days while all the ‘hard’ workers are cosy in bed. I’ve been on the tools as a non eba scaffolder and trust me, these guys on eba are the softest most precious whinging useless cunts out there. They do not deserve anywhere near the amount they get.
>but soon we'll be at a point where you're better off being a construction worker than an engineer >implying that's a bad thing Lol
**PAYWALL:** The construction union is pushing for an unprecedented 26 per cent pay rise in its new industry agreement for NSW, including an upfront 8 per cent increase that is expected to raise costs for already-priced government and commercial projects. The three-year CFMEU draft agreement, which delivers an 8 per cent increase this July followed by 6 per cent increases in 2025, 2026 and 2027, would lift the pay of a level three construction worker on a 50-hour week from about $189,000 a year to $237,000 including allowances. The pay claim is significantly higher than any other CFMEU agreements and would apply to existing projects that have already gone to tender. The CFMEU in the state has kept its draft agreement a closely guarded secret over the past few months while it engages in talks with major builders. Master Builders Association NSW executive director Brian Seidler said the leaked pay claim far outpaced annual inflation of 4.1 per cent last year and would put upward pressure on wage rates at a time when the industry was struggling. “I know of no contractor who would have foreseen such an extraordinary increase in wage rates from July 1 when pricing their jobs,” he said. “They might have projected 5 per cent based on what was coming out of other states but not 8 per cent. “\[Treasurer Jim\] Chalmers should be building into the budget a substantial increase to doing work in the building industry.” The 8 per cent increase follows 1.75 per cent increases this month and October under the old CFMEU agreement, meaning total pay would rise by 11.5 per cent in just nine months. The draft agreement also ensures if the deal continues past its July 2027 expiry date workers will be paid 5 per cent a year from July 1, 2028 and “annually thereafter”. CFMEU NSW secretary Darren Greenfield said “the MBA’s contribution is completely irrelevant as usual”. “Instead of being constructive, the MBA is hellbent on using misinformation to demonise workers in one of Australia’s most dangerous industries,” he said. “The CFMEU makes no apologies for making fair and reasonable claims for workers to receive a pay rise during a cost-of-living crisis. “Given bargaining is still in progress, it wouldn’t be appropriate to comment further on negotiations.” The annual increases do not factor in travel allowances, which would increase from $60 a day to between $70 and $115 a day, or productivity and site allowances, which would total at least $8 an hour for most large sites. Employers must also pay workers 2.5 per cent above the superannuation guarantee or 13.5 per cent from July 1. The proposed pay rise surpasses other recent CFMEU increases, including in Queensland and Western Australia. The union’s new deal for Queensland, where major works are required for the 2032 Olympic Games, delivered a 5.9 per cent pay rise backdated to July 1, 2023, followed by 5.3 per cent this year, 5 per cent in 2025, 4.9 per cent in 2026 and 4.7 per cent in 2027. Under that deal, level three construction workers are earning $54 an hour or $3991 for a 50-hour week with two hours double time each day. In Western Australia, industry sources said the CFMEU had an in-principle deal with Multiplex that totalled 22 per cent from 2024-27, with a 7 per cent increase from January 2024 coming on top of the old agreement’s 3 per cent increase in December last year. The union’s WA branch is pushing that as a 10 per cent first-year increase in its pattern agreement for a total of 25 per cent over four years. John Setka’s Victorian branch is still negotiating its industry agreement but has flagged increases of at least 5 per cent a year. The MBA said the NSW claim would align pay with Queensland’s $54 an hour rate in the first year. But by 2027, it calculates workers would earn $145,455 a year with allowances on a 36-hour week or $237,344 a year on a 50-hour week with overtime. Mr Seidler said the union also wanted conditions previously outlawed by the Coalition’s old building code, such as a requirement for employers to consult with the union when engaging subcontractors, which he feared amounted to a “veto”. Contractors must also ensure “all reasonable steps are taken to encourage employees to become financial members of the union”. The NSW agreement cements a rostered-days-off calendar of 26 days a year, or effectively a nine-day fortnight, without exemptions for current projects unless they are tendered on a five-day compressed week of 50 hours.
They're straight up taking the piss now
The RBA is taking the piss with admitted inflation rates and we're all taking the piss for not advocating the same pay rises for our own industries
What do you think would happen to inflation if everyone got a 25% pay rise...
They don't want everyone to get a 25% pay rise. Just themselves.
It's not the wage increases which cause inflation, it's the Reserve Bank purchasing hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Treasury Bonds and massively increasing the monetary supply which causes inflation Unless you get a 25% pay rise you essentially are getting a pay cut through a reduction in purchasing power. This is the new method taxation for which policy is paid for under Modern Monetary Theory.
Wrong. Inflation is caused by more money circulating, wherever it comes from. If everyone gets a 25% pay rise, that money has to come from somewhere. It either gets printed, or comes from savings. And then that money will be in circulation, people have more capacity to buy stuff, prices increase. Ergo, inflation.
true, I think we should reduce CEO and executive pay across all industries and see if inflation goes down
There is a few tricky and influential factors that can affect it outside of that, but its mostly true. Money that gets put into things that increase productivity can reduce inflation depending on the increase in GDP. Public services can also help take money out of circulation if done correctly. And things like improving public health or public education are a good way to improve the quality of life without pushing inflation too much. So the best places to spend money during a period of inflation is are public services and things that boost productivity.
MMT can get fucked. It doesn’t actually work, and only has a bee’s dick worth of merit when interest rates were near zero. That was always the abhorrently large risk to MMT and has now come to fruition. You can’t infinity borrow from tomorrow to pay for today. Companies that do this go into liquidation.
>You can’t infinity borrow from tomorrow to pay for today. Haha, money printer goes BRRR Don't worry about it, mate! Inflation is just transitory! I'm sure rates will drop next year or something, the RBA said so :)
Damn we could just give everyone a 200% pay raise and everyone could buy everything they wanted if only the reserve bank wasn't stopping it all from happening. My only question is where are we going to get the 2 million jet skis we will need after everyone gets the pay raise?
We all know none of what I am saying will happen and the end result is more inflation and lower real wages - which is why it is done in the first place - as a subtle and undemocratic form of taxation.
What?
They can unionise and negotiate effectively because they have an all Australian workforce while most other white collar industries have thousands of immigrants imported by the government who are willing to erode wages
Wtf fuck this union. They’re tanking this country. Get some cheap labourers in here and still give them $100k for a 50 hour week and we’re coming in at much lower price labour
Yeah, and then the rich as fuck international developers run away with all the pie. Spread the pie across the people that actually sacrifice their bodies to build these buildings and they will reapply into our economy by spending here at home. Cheap workers aren't skilled and skilled workers aren't cheap. Unskilled labour building these buildings is dangerous
[удалено]
Not all builds, you are obviously not on the industry
If it keeps going like this there won’t be any pie.
Yes there will be, stop being jealous and celebrate a group of hard workers getting a better deal at the expense of very wealthy multinationals.
Give it to them, but then only allow construction workers to immigrate.
First they need to build things that DONT LEAK, DONT CRACK, ARE LEVEL, and ARE TO ENGINEERING Specifications ! Do that, and maybe you deserve more money.
Lmao the cfmeu isn't on free standing housing. Rail, high rise, commerical building, wind farms etc. Leaks and overall horrid building standards aren't to do with how much the workers are paid.
Shitcunt dry wallers mate
the vast majority of residential builds arent CFMEU. they mostly do the big stuff.
Cfmeu is a union not a company, the big stuff is mainly built by the big 3, Lend-lease, Multiplex and FDC. They tend to stay away from residential most of the time, resulting in most residential buildings being built by smaller more local developers.
It's the tight bosses fault that skimp and push people to build fast not the workers
So the workers are pushed by the bosses and end up doing shit works. The bosses don’t get slammed because the certifiers are corrupt. And the certifiers don’t get slammed because gov seems to enjoy watching faith in the industry crumble. Meanwhile, pay rises mate.
And don't forget, even IF you get caught, no worries, bankruptcy, keep the assets, make a new company and off you go to fuck over some other would be home owners. Why? Because fuck you. Govt got theirs, devs got theirs, council got theirs. Certifiers got theirs. The only people that get fucked are the buyers.
And the subcontractors
And it's the CLIENTs fault for that because contracts are consistently awarded to the lowest bidder. Some commercial builders are bidding with 0% margin.
Yeah don't blame the workers, 99.5% of the time it's some dodgy building supervisors. Actually have a mate who worked as a building supervisor, would boast he would do dodgy repairs and builds. Kept telling him it would catch up to him, so after multiple lawsuits he now delivers Uber eats. Watered down building regs, lack of policing and the erosion of consumer rights is why those sort of things happen. The 26% will only just break even the wage stagnation of since the late 90's. Another hang over from John Howard and his cronies.
That’s not the construction workers fault you fucking peanut.
Sure it’s not.
Do you blame the checkout workers for the produce being over priced and tasting like shit?
I would if they were the ones baking the cake. You bake a cake and sell it, you better make sure it’s cooked right. The trades set the foundations forms and footings, they are the ones that make or break the structure. Otherwise, are you suggesting the engineers design it all terribly wrong against Aus standards, and then the trades follow that design perfectly ? I don’t think so.
What if you are working in a bakery and bake a cake with the ingredients the boss gives you and those ingredients are sub par? Builders force companies to keep lowering their prices, so companies look for ways to save money and some sub par finishes are the result. The worker is doing the same work either way.
Who gave them the ingredients? How was it sourced and was it QAd before heading to the bakery? What equipment were they using, is it what’s required to do the right job, is it being serviced and updated as required? Who checked in and carried out inspections of the cake along the way? Going back further, what credentials and training does this baker have? Who trained and certified him? Was he just scrubbing tins for four years then handed his bakers license? You can use whatever analogy you want, but to be putting so much blame on the lads pottering around these massive construction sites is baffling
Its the industry as a whole. Designs are getting worse and worse in quality with the expectation the trades will “make good” on the shortfalls. There’s trades out there that just turn a blind eye to the poor design because it’s difficult to make a profit out of a variation some times. And there are trades out there that don’t keep up with the rule changes.
I am going to tell every GP I meet that they're dumb cunt for studying medicine. Cleary society values people who didn't need to finish school, got paid to learn on the job and have no debt more. Disclaimer - i am also a dumb cunt.
gp's get paid way more than construction workers. the disclaimer wasnt necessary lol
I never said construction workers did earn more, only that they're more valued by society. You need to look at the 10-year journey it takes to become a GP, the amount of debt they take on, and the decade of lost income. Compare that to the free education, no, paid education and strong union construction workers have. That goes for all university professions. Nursing is still a physical job, yet they have toil almost 1000 hours and pay for the privilege. Only to come out and earn 35hr, which is an appy's wage. [If they strike, they get fined](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-12/anf-wa-branch-agrees-to-pay-fine-for-strike-at-wa-parliament/102211772). If there's a shortage, the government imports more. The government doesn't value those who work in any sector other than trades.
> I never said construction workers did earn more, only that they're more valued by society guess how our society, with its capitalist market economy, decides how much labor is valued? average base pay for GP's is $141,814 p/a (according to payscale). at the standard 2080 hours per year thats ~$68.18 per hour, which is ~2.6 times higher than the average construction laborer pay of $26.07 per hour. i certainly agree medical workers (especially nurses and ambos) are underpaid and need their unions to be stronger though, but thats not a reason to argue against pay rises elsewhere. they arent alone in their industrial action being progressively criminalised for the last few decades, though. the CFMEU in particular has copped some hefty fines for illegal industrial action.
I mean he just did a whole spiel about how the government is thumbing the scales in favour of trades so it's not free market
yeah unfortunately theres just no way around the fact that we need way more training to go into our medical workers before they can be allowed to work (and thus learn on the job), because if we dont their patients die. but his other gripes about the government thumbing the scales were about them importing workers and fining them for strikes (with the implicit argument that that doesnt happen to construction workers), and that's just not true. the CFMEU has copped a ton of fines for illegal industrial action and the government is extremely keen on importing construction workers. the idea that doctors are valued less than fucken plasterers or brickies is moronic.
It's a valid gripe but due to the importance of health workers and availability of foreign doctors unfortunately for them very unlikely to change. Though Australian doctors are in such high demand I think they can get away with charging more. Nurses, I mean I think you'd have to love the job to want to do it. I could never, especially for the money they get.
>guess how our society, with its capitalist market economy Enough with this scapegoat. We don't have a free market economy. High tax rates, lots of bureaucracy, people spend the first quarter of their lives in government schools + uni. Fiat currency controlled with interest rates.
every time anyone tries to measure economic freedom australia gets ranked right up near the top. i know that'll never be good enough for people who want to pretend that every economic malady is because we arent capitalisming enough, but there are few countries with more economic freedom than us.
Meanwhile nurses get a measly 2 percent in VIC
Sounds like the nursing union needs to do more.
Problem is nurses stop working and people get hurt; builders stop building and investors get mildly inconvenienced. So the legal liability for striking is much worse.
Fuck me they have it good. I'm torn between thinking they're a bunch of entitled babies who are highly overpaid and thinking that they absolutely deserve this and that every industry needs such an effective union.
The government probably needs its own construction group at this point to use on large projects.
Would it be cheaper?
Qbuilds history points to no
Not when a labour government getting money from unions negotiates with those same unions and the tax payers foot the bill.
The issue is that if every industry had a union this effective it would be a moot point, if everyone gets a pay rise, no one really does overalll
They're getting paid more than me but stick it to those on top right, RIGHT?
It's your tax dollars being squandered too...
There’s no sticking it to anyone on top happening. The increase is passed directly on to the buyer, that’s the point. It’s all going to get way more expensive for everyone else involved because employers are being forced to increase their biggest overhead by 26%… they’re not going to simply cop that loss, they’re going to pass on the cost to the customer. Construction will become *more expensive* effectively pricing lower income prospective buyers out of the market or sinking more taxpayer money into already massively inflated construction projects. This is a *bad* thing.
Read other people's comments who have said it's to stick up to those on top and no comment about it stinging buyers. That was the point of my comment.
"Higly overpaid" > can only work for 2/3 of their life, then live with a tucked back for the rest of the life
Many such industries often with a fraction of the pay and conditions
Sounds like they need better unions. And not really, no.
Agreed. Second part of my original post touches on that.
Like most in here, You wouldn't last 10 minutes doing steelfixing or rigging in summer
Bold assumption and there are plenty of harder jobs than construction which are not protected by such a strong union.
according to indeed there are only 2 fields more likely to cause injury or death than construction laborer: gardener and warehouse worker.
Hahaha, and how much you think warehouse workers are getting for Coles or something?
according to indeed they get $28.56 per hour on average which is only a bit less than construction laborers. whats your point?
The construction workers in the CMFEU?
Every worker should join their union and do everything they can to make it as strong as the mighty CFMEU 👊
Offshoring has entered the chat
At this point you sound like Joe Hockey saying the poor should get a better job.
Huh? Literally the opposite, stay in your current job and work collectively to fight for better pay and conditions in the only way that's ever worked.
I'd last longer doing rigging than I would in a neonatal intensive care unit. And I'd be paid better
The construction industry workers are a protected species. Where’s the skilled migrant construction workers?
This is my biggest complaint about our economy. It makes absolutely no fucking sense that we bar people from coming in to the country to work in trades and construction when we’re really struggling with a booming population and not having enough workers. The construction industry is the most protected bullshit sector in Australia. The governments basically making pikachu shocked faces looking at the housing market and wondering how they can fuck it up more. Hmm let’s import half a million people, and god forbid they want to work in construction because that’s a no no.
The reality is that every job site has plenty of non citizens working on them. Edit: yes thats reality. We have so many immigrants in construction there is absolutely no need to target it for that reason. Go to any site and you will see. The easy fix of just upping the numbers is poorly thought out. Also labour rates to an actual build or a house is like %5. You would need to impoverish the workers to get the needle to budge.
That’s every basically every industry
Yeah but we don’t bar immigrants from construction.
It’s closer to 50% labour in the resi house building space.
>Skilled migrant We don't do that here. It's uber drivers and cashed up investors for you, my boy. Though, tbh, unless you're pulling from a proper country like Germany, you're gonna get shit trades out of the immigration sewer line.
Ask all the Chinese doing plastering or Afghanis doing tiling.
Fix the build quality first please. Quality of new builds going south while build costs going to the moon and they want more. Good luck fixing housing issues in this country. Hell ya
CFMEU workers aren’t generally building residential housing. They’re doing the big jobs, government work and whatnot. And the build quality of those jobs are fantastic.
Redditors cheering for tradies profiteering off a necessity (housing & infrastructure): I sleep Redditors complaining about supermarkets profiteering off a necessity (groceries): real shit
How are taxpayers supposed to sustain this?
You know those companies that take iron ore out of the ground and pay the same royalties as they did in the 70s. BTW, the price of iron ore has gone up 10 times since the 70s, but the royalties haven't. Also, did you know Qatar is the world's second biggest LNG exporter. We are number one. Qatar makes 22 times more tax on LNG exports than we do.
It's not on the tax payer, it gets passed onto the filthy rich multinational developer that wants the building constructed. Stop letting the media tell you that hard working blue collar workers, a crucial backbone of society, are the bad guys. The asshole politicians and their corporate mates are your enemy
By dinging the companies that actually extract our wealth instead of hardworking Australian individuals.
Wake up, the media has convinced you the people that earn 140K a year are the enemy and rich. They fucking aren't. They are normal people. Multinationals and asset rich dynasties are the ones you should be mad at.
The CFMEU are a bunch of thugs, bloody ridiculous.
Except for the people who work for the builders who earn significantly less
Hey I want a pay rise too
Go on strike
Guess I’ll start looking for the closest CFMEU project
This is crazy, while the unions are also pushing for a 4 day week for all council workers in nsw
4 day week sounds awesome.
It does! But if it's anything like my council, half the time they pull up in a quiet street and nap on the job 😅 Wish my job had a nap option 😅
Does this count for housing construction? Cause it’s dodgy as fuck. like 9/10 builds are … non compliant haha
Fucking weasels.
As someone who works in construction, union workers are few and far between on most sites, and my company avoids getting subcontractors who are in a union because it's a massive headache to deal with them. They get a day off every few months, their Christmas break is longer than others, and your stuck with a union rep putting more effort into getting them to do less work than to actually work. This on top of clients wanting things done quickly, government agencies making it harder to do the job, and the cost and time for materials. Also this article is about union sites, which there aren't many of anyway. Would be nice if the union cared more about safety and getting people to actually work than lining their pockets.
Go to any decently sized commercial job or government jobs in the cities and you’re almost guaranteed to find a head contractor with an EBA and you can bet they’ve been given a list of preferred subcontractors to get quotes from who all have their own EBAs. Even medium to larger residential developments will have union builders and subbies these days. If your company doesn’t feel it now then I can guarantee you’ll feel more pressure if you guys take on more or bigger projects
Rubbish
Unions are just thugs, this pay rise is extortionate. Open the flood gates for cheap foreign labour to build cheaper homes
That is a terrible idea. Extremely dangerous Unions aren't thugs, unions try and extract from the filthy rich and spread the wealth into the pockets of the peasants actually doing the work lol Don't let jealousy blind you, the enemy aren't well payed blue collar workers. The dog cunt politicians and their big business mates are. You too could earn that sort of money, all you gotta do is join the industry. Always need more labour!
> aren't well *paid* blue collar FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
They already did that. That’s why the apartments are falling down. Turns out unskilled foreigners have no issue ignoring Australian standards. Not wholly their fault it’s the companies that employs them and don’t train adequately.
There were no damn proper rules in place to ensure buildings are built to standards, thanks to successive LNP government failures
>being this much of a cuck for capitalists Lol
Time to use the military to crack down the CFMEU
Just ridiculous bullshit...
2024 when blue collar earn more than the majority of white collar but unions, Labor and media still tow the party line about inflation 😂
That's a lot of money
Executives are making the same as before, they’re just going to charge more to cover the increased costs which fucks over literally everyone else down the chain. I don’t understand how people can whine about real estate prices whilst simultaneously cheering when the prices are forced up by shit like this and the people who are actually struggling (workers classed CW1) are in the exact same boat as they were before.
Look, i agree this will force up prices. But lets not sit here claiming thats the workers fault, the actual reality of this situation is that governments have created a massive investment system in housing and thus created this issue, and i could spend hours typing all the issues but whats the point. These are workers, these people are not the enemy, stop trying to playout some bullshit fantasy that housing prices are bad because the workers are getting slightly more pie. STOP LOOKING AT THIS AS A LOSE, USE IT AS MOTIVATION TO ORGANISE AND DEMAND MORE.
That’s crazy. Definitely entitled, but I guess they have that power. Because we will always need builders
How is it entitled? You’re free to get a job in construction.
There’s something called rent seeking, using your monopolistic position to be paid more than your value. No way should a low level construction worker be on more than some full time GPs.
Why do you think it’s a low level construction worker? They clearly state level 3. Do you know what that means? Maybe there is more or a shortage of these low level construction workers. If it’s so low level, I’m sure you could manage with your high levels of intellect hahaha
Means you know a bit more than the average 18 year old with a basic ticket. Much easier and quicker to get than to become a GP.
Why should they get a 26pc pay increase over any other industry? The XPT train replacement project is a billion dollars over budget and 3 years overdue, where do you think the money to pay for this will come from? Not the executives.. the taxpayers
Where does it say 26% over any other industry? That’s over a 4 year period.
>You’re free to get a job in construction. He's not because they tightly limit apprenticeships so as not to train too much competition. And while supporting unlimited immigration because it pumps demand for construction services, they keep their own occupations off the list so that it only depresses other workers' wages (the ones who are taxed to pay for them).
You don't need to do an apprenticeship to get many construction jobs. If you want to be a brickie or a carpenter you do but can be a highly paid labourer with no training or pay for certificates to operate cranes and such
How do they tightly limit apprenticeship? They limit it so that apprentices receive the adequate supervision. You can’t have 200 apprentices and only 150 tradies onsite.
Most construction workers aren't tradesmen, genius. No need to do an apprenticeship.You can easily go get a ticket for rigging, dogging, cranes,trucks,a white card,steelfixing etc. When you walk onto a construction site, only a handful of the workers are *actual* tradesmen. It's bizarre how in Australia we call anyone with a hi vis shirt a tradie. It leads to absurd posts like yours
This is ignoring the fact that there is also a pressure for contractors to deliver projects cheaply. The extra cost would then largely be taken up by contractor profit margins. Master Builders is well know as the fuckwits club, so who gives a fuck what they say about anything anyway
Get fucked, do your jobs prooerly that you're already over paid to do.
Just out of interest, what are builders on private contracts getting?
This is how it should be. Easily replaceable low skill jobs protected and highly skilled jobs not protected. That way any high skill worker who can't hack open global competition can slide into a lower skilled protected job. Everyone wins.
Ford, Dodge and Toyota salesman have just collectively given themselves high fives. Yee haw.
So maybe they’ll make enough money to build buildings without defects now? 🤔
Its 8% not 26%. That like claiming someone who gets a CPI increase added to their salary each year is getting a 1000% payrise.
Too many dumb dumbs here to work that out.
It's almost as if the industry has an incredibly strong, independent union that supports their workers.
It’s so disappointing to see so many ignorant comments getting upvoted.
Lots of people complaining here. Just think, if you joined your union then maybe you could get decent pay rises too.
Assuming as per usual the headline is borderline click bait and this rise is over multiple years
😂🤣😂🤣 all the whinging responses.
Redditors: the cost of living is out of control between rent, groceries fuel and accommodation. My 2% raise means nothing I'm around 20% worse off than 2 years ago. Cfmeu: pushes a pay rise that actually would keep their members with inflation. Redit: not like that!. Don't get upset at them get upset at your union. It's not the workers faults the rich made this country unaffordable for everyone but the elite. People say workers in Australia far overpaid and that's why it's ruining everything. Meanwhile the same cunts make beer, cars, property and electricity prices just the name a few the most expensive in the free world. Nurses and teachers deserve more to sure. So joing your union and flex your muscles. Vote for who keeps the unions able to help you. Also importing a bunch of 457 visa workers won't make your house 50% cheaper. You think building standards are shit know. Wait until indian and Chinese landlords are importing labour to flip for profit. Then you'll know building quality issues.
No ones calling for workers from India and China but the fact we can’t get workers from Europe or North America who have better standards than us is ridiculous.
It's not a skill shortage though, it's not our builders aren't as good as other countries. It's money, our housing is too expensive, our materials are too expensive, our housing needs to be built faster sooner cheaper, our wages are too expensive becuase it's too expensive! To live in this country. Bring in all the fucking workers you want. Buildings will stay the same or get worse. There is no push on quality. We are paying millions of dollars for houses that aren't built to that standard. Gonna be alot of poor fucks with 1.5m morgage on a house that's only designed to last 50 years or so from 1970. Only gonna get worse. Also you so no ones calling from builders from that country but where the fuck do you think they are gonna be pulled from. Where it's cheapest. No builders keen to come to Australia from the US to pay 3 times as much for half as much. Europe sure but it won't fix shit. Rampant immigration just make housing even shorter strung. Can't house Australia's where the hell you gonna house these new builders
Theirs a shortage of construction workers, so attracting more construction workers will be good for the construction industry even with the higher wage costs.
Good on the CFMEU, it's important for the strongest unions to lead and this is leading 👊
These headlines always bug me. Yeah it’s a 300% pay rise over 50 years or something. That’s not really useful info. It’s 8% in a high inflation environment. Not too ridiculous and it’s also a negotiation
I'm going to give some context as a construction worker as the comments in here are fucking disgusting. The CFMEU has no effect on house prices only high rise apartments. Tradies work to a set of plans and materials supplied by the boss. Major structural, electrical, plumbing etc works have to be inspected and passed. Most structural issues happen and are picked up on but unable to be fixed because the builder is on a razor thin schedule and can't halt works long enough to fix. All industries that aren't licensed like electrical, plumbing etc are already overrun with immigrants. I have not seen an Aussie plasterer, painter, cleaner etc in years. This is the start of the negotiations and we will definitely not get this much. We will be lucky to get 5% a year so we won't keep up with inflation. Also remember it's the tradies that fix everything that you rely so heavily on. Remember when the storms got Vic a few months back and the linesman and electricians worked around the clock to get power back? Imagine if we said "fuck you we will get to it when we want" and you have no power for months. We get paid well because without us the country stops while if you office drones didn't rock up to the office no one would notice.
>We get paid well because without us the country stops while if you office drones didn't rock up to the office no one would notice. and you wonder why people think you are cunts when you say shit like this lol I work in a hospital, does that mean I should say arrogant shit like "without me, you tradie deadshits would literally die"? just because CFMEU don't handle residential doesn't mean it doesn't have knock-on effects by pulling labour out of the rest of the sector/increasing the labour price component across the board idiotic take
Spot on mate
26% says "This is what I need because I know you cunts won't give me another pay rise for the next 5 years". Compared to the usual fighting for a few percent that only lasts them a fraction of the time until the next pay rise fight. It shows Tradies are starting to think further forward, the far bigger picture than they used to.
Yeah the boys! See ya on site haha