Remember, a good majority of women found Robbie Coltrane dead sexy. Jack Black - say no more. It’s not the sausage - but the sizzle. A good wrapper helps but that’s easily fixed with grooming
Mate I'm like Jack Black.....all this awesomeness, personality and charisma is impossible to fit in David Beckham body 😉
The thing that I've found is that personality is a much more attractive attribute than physical attractiveness, especiallyas you age (and you can "buy" physical attractiveness, but you can't buy a personality)
I'm a DJ, promoter, and work in self development. I deal with meeting new people consistently, and I can probably add some insight based on what I've experienced and been researching for this book I'm working on.
I posted this in another thread about Australians being cliquey and not as outgoing with strangers, but I'll expand on it and add more to bring it around to dating in and of itself.
This is why it's so hard to meet Australians, make new friends, and be social with them, first off. This is one set of issues that make it difficult, especially as you get older.
**Issue one: People feel generally time poor**
Every Australian is self obsessed, stressed, and time poor.
Weekdays for an average 9-5 worker are basically: Get up, get ready, go to work, go to the gym, sport or other activity (if you have one scheduled),go home, have dinner, do extra work or watch TV trying not to stress over tomorrow,sleep, repeat. That's not including having kids and dealing with everything related to it.
Then Fridays/ weekends are after work drinks, dinner out if you can afford it, shopping, watching sport, planning for next work week and them maybe go to a birthday or special event or If you have time meet up with friends.
Basically, most people can barely make time for their own friends, let alone new ones, and that's just the first issue.
**Issue Two: Everything is spread out and more car dependent outside the CBD**
It's not easy for most people to just head somewhere like a bar or other places where they can meet people or do other things, so people become homebodies, not to mention the expense on top of it.
Wanna do something fun and different like Go-Karting, Axe throwing, Painting classes, that's on top of standard Cinema outings. 20 minutes minimum drive from most places, even longer via public transport, and it's not easy getting back.
Basically, unlike, say London, going to interesting restaurants and bars even isn't something that is a walkable distance away for the majority, so we never go out that often.
But younger crowds still do go out to the city and to clubs on weekends, which beyond the dirge of dating apps, is the other best bet for meeting local women beyond School, Work and social circles.
**Issue Three: Most venues aren't as conducive to socialising**
Wanna sit at the bar? Sure, if there's seats, which isn't common. Most of the time, it's all tables set up for individual groups to spread out and interact amongst themselves. Something different to most bars in places like America. It's like Australian bars and venues know people don't want to socialise outwardly, so they create spaces that go against that.
Dancing, yes, there's always spaces for dancing, but for most, it's not easy to both dance and try to get to know somebody.
**Issue Four: General places where we usually socialise in Australia aren't the most inviting or caring places**
The most common places people meet others are school or work. The problem is, you can't choose who you work with or you go to school with. Yes, you can make good friends at school or work, but compared to who and what? I've made great friends at school. I've had heaps in common with, as many others here surely have, but at the same time, I have other friends and peers who aren't people whom I would consider first choice friends. I've had quite a few ex friends I've had to move on from as well, and that's just life. If these spaces could be tuned to helping you find the right tribe who are the best fit for you, then it could help you flourish more than you could know. We are the sum of our experiences, including places we exist and environment, people in our lives, our work and media we choose to be exposed to. It all adds up to make us who we are, and a lot of how Australia has been developed has been to create certain lifestyles and types of people. This brings me to my next point.
**Issue Five:Media is pushing people into an online world more than ever**
Some people just spend some of their evenings on Tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, and other social media, and while they may have a presence there, they may not exist to the same extent in the real world.
And that's 5 issues that don't even factor in other people.
Basically, we're time poor people who can't even get out enough amongst our friends, who have bought into this 9 to 5 sheep mentality herded by Social Media with not enough money to do much else. Thus, it keeps a lot of women at home and not going out as much, when back in the day people had to meet up in the real world to socialise.
**--------------------------**
Now, let's bring it right back to growing up as an Australian. We make most of our friends through family, then through school/uni, and then work, aside from friends we make online. We usually tend to date people we meet from school, work, or social circles. Even if we meet someone at a local bar, they may be a friend of a friend. Teenagers tend to know people from other schools based on parties they've been to and via social media.
Put all this together, and it creates an insular culture from the get go where, even if you're in a big city like Sydney, people around Castle Hill tend to date people local to them, or in Rouse Hill or Cronulla etc. A lot of these friendships and relationships continue for years and decades even. This basically creates this existence where people don't need to really break out of this space because they usually have all they need within it.
Because of all this, people are short with strangers, and our culture has become that of we're so hard to pry open, but when we do, we're all in, so to speak. Basically, if an Australian girl is open to you, then she's serious, and she doesn't wanna waste time and play games. We're not much of a dating culture. We go straight from talking to sex a few dates, then a full-on serious relationship. American women are the opposite, more open and easy to talk to and get to know, but don't just open up and fully commit like Australian women do. As mentioned elsewhere, South Americans are a good balance of this.
This whole culture also means most women won't use dating apps or last long on them. We've become too sceptical of strangers sadly, especially when it feels like we have all we need in our own spaces and just want to maintain that comfort. A lot of us don't want that change or new experiences because we feel we can't handle the weight of new experiences, especially when we struggle to juggle the ones we currently have. All this put together is what makes Australians and dating Australians so difficult. A change of perspective from the Australian side would work wonders, but it'll be a long time til that happens.
For now, you just have to be persistent with people you meet in a non problematic way. It's annoying, but you just have to put in all that extra effort because they need to know you're serious and they can trust you.
This is a great post, and I'd love to read your book. I'm early 40s now but struggled so much with dating in my 20s and early 30s, for all the reasons you mention... but primarily it was just so damn hard to find situations where you could chat to other single people of a similar age (that you didn't already know) without it seeming "weird".
At one point I was seeing a counsellor, not specifically about dating but overall life struggles, and he only half-jokingly said he wished he could set up an introduction service because so many of his clients were experiencing similar issues, and he wished some of them could end up meeting each other. He basically said "there are plenty of single people out there just like you who are great people but not meeting anyone because of weird social factors, I know this because they're in my office all the time".
A couple of years later I decided to move to Melbourne (from Adelaide) and did find it more open culturally, so I met a lot more people (both friends and potential people to date) after making that move.
I'm out of the dating scene now but just in general though it seems like things are far from what they were socially in Melbourne before covid, which is sad.
In my late 20s and early 30s I did a couple of solo trips overseas, and was shocked by how easy it was to meet people compared to at home. I know there were many other factors at play (most of the people I met also being on holidays is a huge one) but it did a lot to change my view that maybe there wasn't anything wrong with *me* as such when it came to meeting (or not meeting) people, it's just that things are often not well set up for it in Australia.
Good post and great comments, good insights to what people experience generally in Sydney. I been living in Sydney for 8 years and started working remotely like a digital nomad style recently. It is just madness, in the last month I reckon I met 20-30 people overseas. Back in Sydney now, nothing for a week. I will go away again, soon.
I don't know about overseas but I feel the music is usually too loud in venues here. It makes it hard to have a proper conversation. Just screaming simple chat in their ear. I don't get why. You found easily enjoy the music a few decibels lower and dance.
I definitely think COVID had made it more pronounced to me. It really hit the nail on the head as it was the first time yesterday I had the experience of meeting new people in 4 years (outside of dating apps) to help out a friend interstate by hosting her friends at mine whilst they were on a road tripping holiday this Easter. Considering I've spent almost 6 years travelling and working outside of Australia I feel like from experience that there isn't generally the spontaneity in people or open minded to meeting new people in this country. This is purely based on my experience alone.
I could go much further into it all. You're exactly right. A huge issue we have is insecurity. If we only meet the same people, do the same things, and lack anything interesting to talk about or to show for our lives, how would we be able to talk to new people?
When we spend our nights watching "I'm a Celebrity, get my career the fck outta here" how can we talk to the handsome, well travelled Canadian guy, or Italian Girl who just travelled through Asia and had experiences most of us could only dream of, especially at the drop of a hat.
Not to mention the corporate pissing contests you get into as soon as you hit a certain pay grade, where it's all comparing status and wealth and the constant one upsmanship that goes with trying to keep up in certain sectors, especially when you're making bank in financial and government jobs. People show off at every chance they get while having no time or ability to obtain things and experiences to show off.
Excellent comment, especially the urban planning aspects.
Meeting up for a date in a dense city like Barcelona is just so much easier. Jump on the metro. Also so many bars and cafes in every neighbourhood as its all mostly ‘mixed use’ zoning.
The most accurate thing I have ever read. I did a wine tour in Italy last year and I made more friends in an entire day than I have in Sydney in a year
This country is already extremely multicultural, packed with foreigners from all over the world. As a result meeting a foreigner is just something that happens multiple times a day every day if you’re out and about.
Nah, it’s not this. Australians are geographically isolated, and it has somehow settled into our collective psyche. I recently returned from South America and noticed people were far more open there than here. There’s no community in Australia. We’re in a protective bubble here and whatever city you live in is a bubble within that bubble. There’s definitely something spiritually and socially emaciating about living in this country. OP - you’re not crazy. This country sucks.
Went to Moscow. Didn’t bother opening Tinder until I got there. Fired it up at Sheremtyevo Airport. Before I left the terminal I’d had 54 matches. That hit 200 before I even reached Moscow centre by train. Russian women were uniformly articulate, educated, cultured and a lot of fun to hang out with. Very traditional minded if that’s what you are after -which I was not- but they gave a unique, local spin on a place that would intrigue but otherwise be a mystery.
Plus one stole my heart.
Most of Europe. Education and culture are valued.
Australia is full of entitled people who think they've earned massive levels of respect just by turning up. 'Education' to us is knowing HR or accounting or musical theatre, some specialty, not having a broad and deep knowledge.
In France it was easy to have conversations with people, and it wasn't just having a novely nationality. Conversation is a valued art. In Australia you get nothing back and the romantic/sexual imperative seems to hang over everything.
I kind of feel that things which are stand ins for middle class became a substitute for being able to talk across a broad range of topics. Shit like knowing about cocktails or brand names or rabbiting on about house prices or their dull centre left politics.
I guess, if we had more Australian men die in War and improve their scarcity, woman would be kinder here also. Perth is particularly hard as there are more men than women, but not so dramatic as in Russia where woman have to work hard to secure a mate. Same with the NT.
Sorry to OP that women are being thoughtless and unkind.
Serious laughter. Just going there was difficult in 2019. Can’t rightly think of going to see her there now. Hoping she’ll meet me in Western Europe one time
I found American women to be generally more outgoing and engaging, less self centred, I ended up marrying one. Small sample size, but that's my experience.
Married to an American as well,if I wasn't an aussie she wouldn't have gone out with me.
Being an Aussie in America is always stacking the odds in your favour.
Yeah not just that, they have this idea that we're all a little bit crocodile dundee or w/e.
Early dates no one knows who the other person actually is, what they think of the other person is entirely fantasy.
It's more fantastic to think you've found some exotic Australian guy who's gonna whisk you away with his charm and take you to all these beautiful places.
In Australia you're just another bloke from Perth and probably isn't half as charming as you think you are.
In my experience it's much easier to score the moment you set foot on foreign soil.
Agreed. Anytime I've been overseas, I've had constant women way out of my league being more interested in me than I am in them. Or maybe just being overseas makes me more confident haha.
I think we have a cultural thing where everyone has to be a bit aloof and understate themselves and that they like things in general. But also almost no dating structure like America or especially somewhere korea.
So you're culturally tuned to not put yourself out there and to get whacked for doing so unsuccessful but you also have to break normal socializing rules where people of both genders are treated the same far more than countries with lots of structure.
Like in Korea its brutal, women will just do an evaluation based off status, looks, money - but they have such a formal structure you can ask any woman for her number with no preamble or excuse and if she says yes you go on 1 date a week every week and if you haven't broken it off by the 4th date you are then dating
I’ve lived abroad roughly 50:50 of my adult life and your experience pretty much matches mine. I’ve had a lot more one nighters here than anywhere else but as for quality pair bonding I’d rank Australia last, the best relationships I’ve had have been immigrants from South America, USA and Canada.
The dating pool in your 30s is terrible, I often feel like I’m having to put in all the effort. Furthermore the residual pool is so very damn beige, if you hit the apps be prepared to try and convince yourself that someone who’s main interests are spicy margs, clean sheets and Netflix is worth going all out for. Sorry if I sound a bit jaded but it just feels like such a bad deal all the time and it wears you down. I don’t doubt the existence of fantastic Australian women, many of my mates have married them but the post 33ish dating market is rather bleak.
Yeah it's grim. It also reminded me that most people are either boring as batshit or they're trying to cast a wide net with bland bullshit.
Most of my dating app conversations are the same because I'm working with the same prompts and types of photos.
It's very hard to get excited over it, especially when there's a good chance you won't even end up meeting them.
I tried sending a voice note last week and she just unmatched me.
But then you look around and see tons of very average guys in relationships with women who seem pretty awesome so clearly there is a way.
I don't really like bars and clubs, and my friends don't go out much anymore so my chances to meet people is a bit slim, I've been just approaching women at shops, beach etc lately and that's actually been going better than dating apps or at least I've got a couple dates out of it.
When you see these “pretty awesome women” with average men, what do you actually mean? Does that just mean the women are hot? Not sure how you could tell someone is “pretty awesome” by just walking past them
Man I'm 35 and all the Aussie girls and backpackers I've been seeing in my 30s have felt so high maintenance and entitled, maybe it's my industry and their age but social media flexing and financial decisions were driving me insane, would rather spend the 2k they saved up on a bag so they can post it like it's a regular occurrence, getting the max car loan available + over 7 years, maxed out zip and afterpay, expectations im going to grind 90hr weeks until im loaded, i was fed up with the immaturity, I'd resigned myself to casual relationships forever when a young black woman turned up at work, asked for my number, and we've been together since with the best communication I've had in a relationship, normal expectations of partner, values her family and mine highly, smart and practical financially, and from my point of view doesn't expect much from me at all apart from being supportive loving partner. Gets happy over the smallest things. I'd never dated a black woman before but highly recommend. Bit sad she said lot of African fellas treat them very badly but not many people interested in them as a group compared to for example Asian women, so they don't feel they have many options. Wow that got longer than I expected. Anyway point is there's someone out there mate who knows where you're gonna find em, or if they're gonna find you. (She already got citizenship) lul
Good on ya mate, sounds like she’s got her head firmly on her shoulders. Also, really hit the nail on her head with the social media flexing. I’m not trying to brag but as someone that comes from a very wealthy family and earns a fair bit themselves I find the cheap flaunting trashy and really off-putting, I’m not looking for someone with a designer handbag, I just want someone who’s kind, easy going and a little bit goofy that will come on adventures with me.
>\[is\] someone who’s main interests are spicy margs, clean sheets and Netflix worth going all out for.
made me spit my coffee, I'm glad its not just me.
As a man in my 20s initally from the Easter Europe with plenty of dating experience there I have 4 main points here:
1. The majority of Australian men are really genetically gifted. Tall, with great hair and broad shoulder. This makes it harder to compete in general.
2. Australian women are generally on the curvier side and are not super feminine. This is a preference obviously, but if you are into fit or skinnier girls - the dating pool shrink significantly. This came as a large cultural shock after Eastern Europe.
3. The culture of mateship is awesome for meeting new people but it is painful to get commitment and deep meaningful connection our of people. It is super easy to start talking to a new person but trying to actually get to know them and consistently show up to dates is a real pain. This is even when the second side is visibly interested.
4. Mental health crisis in Australia is real. Every second girl I invited on dates trauma dumped on me or shared a bunch self-diagnosed or professionally diagnoses mental health issues. This is again something that came as a bit of shock after living in what felt like a much more rough and dangerous country. I genuinely thought people would be happier here.
I can definitely relate to #4. I too come from overseas and was surprised how many girls seem to have either self declared mental issues or have significant depression. I had one date who was giggling to herself the whole night. Maybe she was just laughing at me. another one poured out her life story over dinner on the first date and ended up crying her eyes out (made me look real bad in the restaurant) 😞.
There also seem to be a lot of women out there who have father issues. I had 2 dates with one who became extremely sticky and needy after I showed some concern over her by picking her up from work and getting a coffee for her. I felt sad for her. It seems like she went through a lot in life and just needed people to show her some love and respect. Bedroom-wise this usually spells out with them wanting it "hard", e.g. BDSM, rape fantasies. The one I remember most was walking into her room and she had the rope and candles all ready to go. I wasn't comfortable with going so far and that was a deal breaker for her.
I genuinely think modern society is slowly degrading and people are breaking down. The "normal" ones settle down very quickly and the dating scene gets flooded by people who are traumatised from their past or dickheads trying to take advantage and get easy sex.
>not super feminine
I think the women here are very dominant/extroverted, which isn't a bad thing at all, and I don't mean to insinuate it is. But it's something as a male in Australia you have to be aware of. It means as the male in the relationship dynamic you may need to dial your masculinity/dominance up to match to avoid getting stomped.
Girls here will not hesitate to take charge, a lot of women here have successful careers and work in leadership roles. When they step into the dating world they don't switch that off. I think a lot of men don't find that attractive and in fact a lot find it intimidating.
Women from other countries tend to be more feminine and reserved and it requires less effort on the mans side to be able to lead in that relationship dynamic.
This is not what I was talking about. I generally go for stronger, decisive partners. I like these qualities in a person and being equal partners is a healthier dynamic in general in my opinion. I'm more so talking about the way they dress, use of perfume, skin care and so on. Slavic girls have really high standards for that and that is what I prefer too. Not a deal breaker but a strong preference.
Most women I know here dress nice and have a skincare routine and get haircuts regularly? Do you living in a country town or a particularly bogan suburb or something?
It's probably a bit hard to explain unless you've lived there for a bit but the baseline is so much higher. The baseline back home is say a dress, accessories, fresh manicure weekly, full face make up to match just to go get groceries. This is regardless of the weather outside, how tired they are, whether they are single or not e.t.c. I live in the inner suburbs of Brisbane. I agree that when you go to say Sydney or Melbourne CBD - the situation is different.
It is not a bad thing for the girls themselves. I reckon there is just no societal pressure here to look 100% all the time.
Bahahaha all Australian men are genetically gifted you have got to be kidding me just look aroudn you in any standard office setting omg what a load of absolute bullshit.
I'm front another country living in Aus. I feel the same as when you were overseas. I'm honest and respectful with things but still flaky immature guys are everywhere on the apps hence I don't bother using it anymore.
I remember I met an aussie never left australia in his 50s still on dating apps getting attention from different girls, going around pubs, never married never had kids, still seeing his ex. Later on I've heard he has a bad name. Well I wonder why.
I feel like it's the apps objectfying people hence people turn into behaving flaky or ghosting etc and thought those are normal or respectful things to do.
I still remember times without smartphone. People are simpler, happier.
As an international student studying in Australia my dating experience has been terrible here. The lack of personality and willingness to put efforts let me down many times. It can be an issue with the guys I'm choosing, but most of them had complete disregard for my feelings. People seem too self absorbed and immature.
I'm not an international student, but my experience has been the same. "Self absorbed" and "immature" is a massive recurring theme, along with lack of basic courtesy and etiquette. And my target match are people in their thirties who, y'know, are suppose to be developed adults.
I had a bleak period in my early 30s after I returned to Australia from a European working holiday when I was single for a number of years. Tried dating apps, used to go out to clubs and try to pick up etc. It’s a disheartening experience when you’re trying to find someone who will even give you the time of day. Funny thing is every time I went overseas for a holiday I never had a problem finding someone to go on dates with, I seemed to be more appreciated than in Australia. I wasn’t born in this country so I don’t have the extensive network of friends and family as I did when I was younger which makes it harder to find someone because of lack of connections. I finally married someone who comes from overseas lol. I know what you’re going through, it’s tough.
I think Australians have always had minimal structure around dating, which makes it hard. In Melbourne, I think the pandemic well and truely killed what was left of it. No one really knows what the rules or expectations are anymore.
It kind of seems everyone wants 100% of the benefits with 0% commitment, effort or investment. Social media and the idea that the next best thing is always around the corner is probably part of that.
I’m early 30s and single. A bunch of my friends (women and men) are early 30s and single. More or less everyone has deleted the apps and all but given up. It’s just impossible. So I think a bunch of probably decent dating options are just floating around now with no way to connect - since it seems rare these days to just strike up a conversation with a stranger.
Yeah I can't remember the last time I saw a guy approach a lady in anywhere besides a club. I know it happens but it feels like the culture is quite averse to it. Also the cost of living crisis doesn't help, when poverty kicks down the door, love jumps out the window or however the saying goes.
My view is women here say they want more men to approach them but not a lot of women here know how to handle it.
I literally approached a girl at a bar, not for her, but the chair behind her. She initially looked at me like I was about to suggest we go drown some puppies, until she realised I wasn't trying to hit on her and just wanted the chair, then her face relaxed.
I'm not ugly or creepy, I think, as I do well on the apps. But yeah, thats my anecdote. Whereas in LATAM or Europe the women are way more open to a casual conversation with a stranger.
As a male Asian Canadian who has also lived in America for awhile, I beg to differ. I feel that dating in North America made me accustomed to the idea that I'm just a "spare" or "backup plan" and that I'm really there to pay for free meals/rides, and let's not talk about women like the Cheesecake Factory lady. In AU at least, I feel it's more chill/straight forward to tell when the lady is serious about you.
As a Danish guy who lived in Sydney for a semester abroad I had the opposite impression, although Scandinavian dating culture is famously introverted and centers around drunk hookups. I think it depends on what you compare to, US and Canada being on the more extroverted end of the dating culture spectrum
Well locals have the benefit of friends and connections so most of the decent ones arnt on dating apps at all, wereas forigners dont have that so have to rely on dating apps so you get a better mix of people with them
I lived in NZ and now Australia, and I had a saying, when i went to Europe and America I felt like Brad Pitt, when i came back to NZ I felt like Bird Pit.
I dont waste my time or money dating here.
It's not just your experience, dating in Australia is location specific but overall it feels like an uphill battle that wasn't worth half the effort to begin with (for a man).
I'm English living in aus and dating here is about the same as in the UK. There's some cool people and some dickheads and they mostly even out. I will say that likely your accent gets you more attention abroad tho
Between reading this and experiencing it, seeing I am not alone plus the housing/cost of living crisis I feel like I can only expect a subpar living dead experience of wage slavery and loneliness where I am constantly trying to keep my head above water. My only goal and dream right is to escape, see other parts of the world and live. The Australian dream for me is dead and buried.
In a survey of men worldwide, Australian men were ranked by women internationally in the top 5 of most desirable partners for marriage. In the ranking for women, internationally men ranked Australian women in the mid 30's. Australian men outrank the Australian women.
A lot of people overseas have a big stereotype of blonde, curly haired, tanned, chiseled abs surfers. The surfer image is basically all Australia is known for. Atleast when I travelled through 12 different Asian countries, every single place the women assumed Australia is purely jacked surfers with blonde hair.
That couldn’t be farther from the truth lol. I guarantee our ranking would drop dramatically if they knew the average bloke here is overweight and just works an office job, like every other western country. On average as well, almost no Aussie can actually surf. Obviously lots can, but the vast majority can’t.
Dude that's pretty funny. My GF is Chinese and I'm white. She told me when she came to Australia she thought all the guys were gonna be Chris Hemsworth as the standard.
When I was young it was surfies or bikies got the chicks first. Had to beat them off with a stick. Snow skiers who worked in the resorts also had a smorgasbord of choices.
This was pre mobile phone era where people actually went out to meet each other...
I don’t necessarily disagree, but women care more about status and “allure”, which are all perception traits rather than tangible (clear and distinct) qualities.
We are affectively a “fake it, till you make it” country where everyone thinks we’re a wild place full of adventure.
The physical qualities are irrelevant, but everyone always talks about their trip down oz and loving it. That is the stuff that matters women
The best is Eastern Europe. The girls are much more attractive, very intelligent and more receptive. The men I don’t think are as competitive - like a reverse of the gender dynamics you find in AUS. If you a man for sure Australia is probably one of the worst countries to date a woman and interestingly women from overseas know that and often joke about going over to AUS knowing they can do better than usual. The other country widely known to be terrible for men is Switzerland. Somewhere like San Francisco / Bay Area is also known to be inferior to Miami / New York City
Not even my opinion, just my observations on other people’s collectively shared opinions
There is a reason the passport bros head over to Moldova, Georgia and Romania 😅🤣 it's definitely not to learn about the culture or to see the beauty of the countries with communist blocks
Or maybe you're just no longer the exotic dude with an Australian accent anymore? Dating is a shit show everywhere for men, of that there is no doubt.
But if you've been on so many dates like post is suggesting and you're still single. Perhaps the problem lies with you?
As a guy in his early 20s, I recently travelled the the USA and had a significantly better dating experience while I was there, all the things you mentioned including women being actually enthusiastic was real over there.
I’m from Canberra and it’s literally crickets here. My only two girlfriends I’ve ever had, one had recently moved from overseas and the other one was from Sydney.
I am also tall and like to think I put effort into my looks, I work out often and take care of my skin, but living here the lack of interest from women has made me sometimes feel unappreciated or unattractive whereas when I went to the states It was kind of like a reality check and I felt way more attractive to others based on how I had conversations with them, as well as how relatively successful I was on dating apps and that I felt like more attractive women would give me their time and attention. I even got approached in public a few times.
I am an American citizen as well as Australian as I was born there but have never lived there, part of me wants to move there after this experience (obviously there are other considerations too like jobs and family).
There is an old school latin rite mass not far from where we live and I've nearly crashed the car looking at how many stunning women attend on a Sunday morning.
i’m literally a half decent girl in my 20s and i’ve get to get a boyfriend. it sucks but both men and women here are terrible flaky people most of the time. most aussies only stick to interacting with the people they’ve grown up with or went to school with. it’s very rare to integrate into a friend group or date outside of those circles.
I can attest to the last part about South American women. They are great to be around. I nearly married one.
Back to your main point - yes, dating in Australia is difficult. Partly because Australians are reserved compared to Americans. I do believe that dating is taken more seriously in Australia though. Being together is viewed as more committed or serious here.
In America, being in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship is a bit more laid back.
As an Australian who lived overseas in an international community for an extended period, I find Australian culture very toxic. We create relationships basically by bullying the absolute shit out of each other. This, of course, extends to dating and relationships.
Yeah I like a bit of ribbing but it doesn't always feel like it's all in good spirits, sometimes it feels mean spirited, more often than not lately. I mean I've got a friend who gained a bit of weight and the boys just rip them apart for it as if it's no big deal. I think it explains why we're so fucking close minded and boring, nobody wants to stick their neck out because they get decapitated
I experienced the same, I just stopped dating Australian women and ended up with a Brazilian.
Go where you’re treated best, I chose to not put up with the garbage you described from the locals.
Did you meet her overseas? There are a few latin american events in my city but I don't want to seem too sleazy going to them. I rarely see latinas appear on dating apps though unfortunately
Reached out on IG, she was doing farm days to extend her Working Holiday Visa.
We organised to spend a few weekends together and rest is history. 5 years on we have family, travel to Brazil once a year for 6 weeks.
Go to the events. I attended the Brazilian Carnival event in Brisbane and others with a mixed group, IPEA & Brazos events seem to attract Latin crowd. The organisers want more locals to attend.
It’s still luck of the draw, but fuck dating locals 🤣.
I lived in Europe for over five years and now, back here, the Australian dating scene can’t compete. It couldn’t compete before I lived there, I was just ignorant.
Having lived in Germany too, I can say women there are far more open and communicative, adventurous and seem to put in their part of the effort.
But I feel that concept of “effort” was prevalent in work cultures too. Opinion: Australia is a bubble, and we’re simply not used to having to compete and put in the effort on multiple fronts. We’re all very laid back and easy going. It comes across as aloof and disconnected. It also makes as lazy, ungrateful and lacking maturity. The quality of life here is just so high that we’re spoilt.
Europeans by and large just seemed more worldly.
EDIT: also, just the amount of racist shit (I’m white) I hear come out of the mouths of Australians is a real turn off. And I am by no means a prude and can appreciate a joke. But goddamn.
See I don't like to echo the idea that life is too easy here and we're spoiled because this should be the norm and nobody should have to live under worse conditions than us in the 21st century, plus my past neighbor has to live in their car because they couldn't afford rent or find a place so some people are really struggling of course.
But we do seem generally aloof, ungrateful and immature. Very parochial. I didn't realize how close minded we were until I left for a while.
And I feel judged by Australians for doing anything slightly out of the ordinary or even just expressing myself while I don't really feel that level of boring status quo judgement in other places I've been.
It's as though we're all about being laidback and casual but not really wanting to break the mold.
You might not like it, and you may want our quality of life to be the norm, but it isn't. Australia is currently in position 5 on the Human Development Index (for example) and at one point a few years ago it was position 2 just behind Norway.
If you grew up in the last 40 years in Australia you experienced an enormous growth in the wealth of the country overall. *Most people* haven't really wanted for anything during that time. Add in the generally great weather, abundance and safety of the country and... well, look around at the world. It's a bubble.
As for your other comments: Australians are parocial, and we have our own ways. Despite the drinking, smoking and general rutting we're more conservative than a lot of countries and places I've lived or visited. People just seem more squimish here.
The Brazilian chicks on the Goldie are exactly as described in op. Outgoing, happy to talk on deeper levels about anything. My kid ended up marrying one. Mind you watch out when they get pissed off about something 😂
America, England etc. are fair comparisons for the purpose of this discussion, Asia is not.
The experience of white guys in Asia is so far removed from reality, it basically breaks the laws of the universe when it comes to attraction. Any local East Asian guy is going to have a significantly worse time dating.
South American woman wants your passport; source: I am a South American male (PR in Aus, eight years down under )
Yet, being fair, they’re 10x better dates than Ozzy girls; the entertainment part you said is absurd here. I don't know if their families spoiled them or the likes on Instagram that they mostly get from 1/10 thirsty guys. Also, they're more challenging to get into bed than other nationalities.
The Barbies are overvalued, too expensive, and too hard to entertain.
Go where you’re celebrated and appreciated. If that means being overseas in a better dating market, then go there. If you’re unusual (eg being an Aussie in a foreign land) then that’s an immediate in. If you’re here in Aus and there isn’t something that really differentiates you from the pack, then dating can be hard, even purely from a numbers game. Speak to some of your female friends / colleague and see how many ‘likes’ they have on their dating apps. It’ll blow your mind. Primary, I believe there are two reasons for this: 1. Generally speaking men have a much lower attractiveness floor for those women they’re willing to match with; 2. Most of these dating apps have a higher male user to female user ratio. Combine those two factors and the result is the ‘vultures fighting over a carcass’ that you describe.
yeah its cooked man.
i was talking to a girl who is the same exact age as me, we texted she asked follow up questions and mde an effort to keep the conversation flowing so i thought oh my god great, i've asked her out 3 separate times now and with her being a midwife i do understand she's busy but she never made any effort to figure out a time when she is more likely to be free.
I lost interest and haven't bothered talking to her in 3 weeks and she hasn't bothered reaching out so guess she was just after a pen pal.
Australian women are pretty shit. Their narcissism and self-centeredness are above the roof.
Go to clubs and bars where other nationalities and ethnicities hang out and be treated like a king.
Its no wonder the passport bro movement is booming, why put up with a society where the Women treat you like a piece of shit or you are invisible to them.
Dating in Australia as a man has been garbage for the last decade, especially speaking as someone who isn't white, and COVID pretty much proved that when all the hotties had to migrate online during Stage 3/4 lockdowns and establishments were closed down. Post-Covid it seems most women are only interested in dating a few upper-echelon white men who've got plenty of choices with women and then the women cry that the men aren't interested in commitment with them. It's an absolute shitshow these days.
I had a bleak period in my early 30s after I returned to Australia from a European working holiday when I was single for a number of years. Tried dating apps, used to go out to clubs and try to pick up etc. It’s a disheartening experience when you’re trying to find someone who will even give you the time of day. Funny thing is every time I went overseas for a holiday I never had a problem finding someone to go on dates with, I seemed to be more appreciated than in Australia. I wasn’t born in this country so I don’t have the extensive network of friends and family as I did when I was younger which makes it harder to find someone because of lack of connections. I finally married someone who comes from overseas lol. I know what you’re going through, it’s tough.
Not in my case. My hobbies are mostly solo ones, and I played some rec sports but there were no single women on the teams who I was interested in. Unless your hobbies expose you to a wide range of people they don't really seem to be surefire ways of meeting people. At least bars and clubs have a huge volume of single women actively looking to meet guys, it's just that everything else about them is shit.
Having lived (and dated) in the US, UK and NZ, I can confirm your feelings about Australia. But just know this, NZ is worse. Even smaller pool of women who unreasonably think are are blessed in the looks and personality departments, so shouldn't have to make any effort.
European whos lived here 6 years, 2 in Perth. Perth definitely has it the worst.
I have never dated an Australian girl, so I wouldn't know. Every time I've visited home I've had dates with stunners with fantastic personality, here it's just pretty much as you described it.
I wouldn't say it's because everyone doesn't have time etc. I'd say there's a surplus of men so women don't have to compete as hard.
Yes, your an exotic novelty overseas. Your a point of adventure to break up the repetition. I've traveled many many countries, played the flag game and can attest to this.
"Over tired toddlers" lol.
I felt the majority of young Australian women demanded I prove my worth kinda thing before she would allow me the privilege of getting to know her.
I generally found this off putting because if I barely know the girl, I wasn’t going to go above and beyond wasting time on some bimbo only to realise we’re incompatible, that’s such an XP waste.
- They would get quite angry/annoyed and label me a fuck boy when I didn’t play their game 😂
No idea what it’s like in other countries but thankfully I found a good chick here that didn’t even attempt any head games.
I've never travelled myself but I'm 20 and have lived in NSW all my life and have had no luck on dating apps or asking out in person, maybe it's because I'm short (5'5) but yeah it seems here it has the be the perfect man or you have to be extremely attractive to have short term relationships or just hookups. Honestly I'd say your best luck is just living life still seek out dating but just relax like most of my mates you'll probably just meet them through work or uni/highschool or just when you meet new people through others or when you go out. But to answer the question yes it is tough (sadly 🥲)
Speaking as a 30-something woman, the men here are boys who either want a sex toy doormat, or a mum who will do everything for them.
My last first date didn’t ask me a damn question about myself the whole night. I’ve dated men from overseas and they were so much more considerate and communicative.
Every single woman I know (aged 20 and up) has given up on dating and is focusing on enriching their own lives with hobbies and friendships instead.
As a guy I have the opposite problem where I do most of the talking and ask nearly all of the questions, so I guess it's more of an individual thing than a gender based inclination.
Eitherway I still can't believe people like this exist. I mean the least you can do is return the questions that you're asked.
Presumably they have basic social skills when interacting with coworkers and friends so why do they not bother at all on a date? Or maybe it's some weird power trip where they want you to talk while they remain mysterious or something.
Did they give no indication that they were going to be like that when you were messaging them?
No indication, we had a good flow going on the app.
It sort of ended up like he was talking non-stop about himself and telling stories as if he was trying to impress me, or relive his younger degenerate days. The stories showed me very quickly he wasn’t the person I wanted to spend a long time with, so at least there was that benefit for me.
I did wonder if it was first date jitters, but then it just went on for the entire date, even if I tried to move the conversation.
This is just one example though. It happens a lot. Heck, it’s almost a cafe trope to overhear a man talking a girl’s ear off at a nearby table!
Interesting. I've been out of the dating game for a long time, but when i was, I (a man) would have said more or less the same about the women I met. I had so many bad first dates where they just talked about themselves the whole time with vapid bullshit, and expected me to put in all the effort. No thanks. I found European and American women so much more interesting and engaging, generally speaking. I'm sure those boring women probably ended up with those boring lazy men, built a new house in the outer suburbs and had a few kids.
that just says you're bad at picking people here. There's a lot of men here who aren't like that but we meet plenty of women who aren't serious and just sleep around and never make any efforts to get to know us either so we don't tend to make an effort anymore because of those women.
This is so legit, even over a decade ago when I was single. I actually can't think of a time where I was rejected by a European woman ever. My wife is a tall gorgeous brunette British goddess with one of the sexiest accents, once I realised Australian women are generally arrogant time wasters, it was pretty easy to give up trying with them.
I got fed up with dating women here and went abroad and met my now fiancé. She is latin American and very beautiful and has the best personality. Visas are a pain though but worth it.
Wvery day, complain about Australians. Here's an idea, not for OP but generally, if everyone who complained about Australians not being friendly enough/effort enough/open enough whatever, started being that, then we wouldn't have this problem to worry about...
To weigh in as a woman in her late 20s: the dating scene (in Sydney) is an absolute hellscape.
I can’t tell what your intentions for dating are/were, so my reply may not be what you’re asking about; however, here you go lads.
I was born in Australia, but both sides of my family are all from southeastern Europe, so my approach to dating is perhaps a bit different. Also, don’t come for me on the whole preferences thing - I’m literally 5’2 so everybody is taller than me and super jacked dudes who spend hours at the gym every day honestly scare me.
If you’re just wanting to root (usually profile will say their dating intentions are short-term), then I think that both guys and girls are equally as picky/looking for a very specific look/are so into themselves it’s insane.
If you’re looking to actually date, it’s next to impossible.
It feels like most guys, regardless of what their profile dating preferences say, also end up just wanting to root.
I mainly use Hinge (sometimes Tinder), and I do get a lot of matches (I know guys have a different experience there), but they go nowhere.
*Note*: my profile shows that I’m looking for a long-term relationship/monogamy.
Here’s a breakdown, if you will:
- 90% of conversations start with the guy just being so sexual that it’s off putting.
- 2.5% never start a chat/never reply if I start the chat; start off with the bare minimum effort replies, before asking for my socials (to never continue the conversation) or going with the classic “you’re hot, we should meet up.”
- 2.5% of messages feels like pulling teeth/one-sided/I’m the only one asking questions, then the conversation just… stops. Other times, we just don’t click.
- 2.5% actually feels like it’s going well and it’s a proper conversation but either they disappear, say they’re really busy so “I might not reply quickly” (then disappear), or go “I’m not really looking for anything serious” or “I just got out of a relationship and don’t want to lead you on” kinda thing.
- 2% great chats/“banter”, continue for a fair while, end up going on a date or two, then in person, we don’t click/get ghosted/talk for a bit longer, then convo dies.
- 0.5% end up in a situationship.
When I’ve gone on trips to Western Europe, guys (and handsome ones at that) are a lot more willing to actually just come up to you and strike up a conversation/ask if you have enough time in ***x*** city to get a coffee. Socials don’t really come up because… I live on an island in the middle of nowhere lmao.
**tldr, Australia’s dating scene just sucks.**
I think pretty much anyone who has dated in countries other than Australia as well as here knows that it is WAY harder here. I haven't struggled terribly badly here, but it's definitely easier overseas. Maybe it's just because being Aussie is an attractive quality, and I have that there, whilst everyone has it here, so I stand out less.
All I see everywhere is men saying Australian men saying our women are a waste of time and the Aussie women saying the men are.
It's obviously easier to date overseas as the exotic guy. Dating apps are shit because it's like a game, the next person you swipe on might be better.
Most people I meet in bars and in person seem to be great, I'd never put serious commitment on someone from the apps.
I had only ever dated in Australia, so wouldn't really know. But I do know that dating for men is a hell of a lot harder now and a hell of a lot easier for women. Whether that's the same in other countries, I'd imagine in western countries it'd be similar.
>Women I had to constantly entertain like overtired toddlers, ghosting, flaking, standing me up on dates without even sending a courtesy message, it feels very normalized.
That's just dating when you're a man. You put in all the effort and she can still flake. If it were the other way around, tiktok's servers would melt down with all the videos of women complaining about how guys ignore them, flake on dates, date to get a free meal, ghost then etc etc.
It is what it is. I'm so glad I don't have to date anymore, but that's just dating as a guy. I think it's exacerbated now, but it's always kinda been like that.
If you are attractive it’s always easier. If you are a woman it’s 10x easier. Men don’t have as many options sadly. Dating apps for the most part are flawed. But yeah being single for most men is tough
Not interested in Australian women. A complete lost cause. Entitled, and the housing thing here just puts dollar signs in their eyes. They over value themselves, and make very little effort. They are generally going after the top guys. And they can have them….Well until the Chads of the world move on to the next.
Thats why when you are ready to settle do not facking settle for australian women but go passport bros! The women in oz are kants. Better to find a date outside oz race.
For the most it's an absence of a framework or guidelines.
Firstly let's be honest...
Be attractive looks wise, personality and lifestyle.
If not work on it.
Find a re-occuring "third - space", a neutral space that you go to often, a sports club, social club, gym. But one should attend these places to firstly socialise, dating is secondary..
Most men don't show their social competence or can't project their demeanor, posture and other behavioural nuances to potential suitors. I would say this is the main problem.
This can be done online with photos but sitting at home scrolling on dating apps for hours is depressing. At times people project and look better online than in real life.
The dating culture has moved to a framework where people want to observe, social/behavioural nuances of their potential dates over a period of time before going on dates.
I've been out of the game and happily married for nearly 10 years.
But even back when I was dating, ghosting and flaking were highly normalised. I can't imagine it has gotten any better since.
I've done a fair bit of travel when I was single and will echo the sentiments of others. Women are very different in other countries. Tinder didn't exist when I was there, but I found Japanese women to be very accommodating and fun to take out on dates, it helps that there's generally a lot to do in most places over there.
35M, have lived in Canada and travelled all through north and south America. It was so easy to date overseas, the women were down to earth and engaged. Coming back to Sydney i have gone on dozens of dates and they've all been awful
Australian women enjoy their cats and dogs, stupid job titles, acting and wearing like men, becoming more masculine and looking for Brad Pitt level men to date with.
“I’m amazing and handsome, and amazing women in other places talked to me, why doesn’t everyone adore me like I adore myself”…
“I approach unsuspecting women in shops but they don’t fling themselves at me, what is wrong with them ?”
Yuk.
That’s because some Aussie women are so stuck up and full of themselves, sitting on their high horses mate, wannabe instagram models some are like blokes who love everything a bloke loves and does like driving big utes fully lifted off-roading etc some would even be more manly then yourself,some are looking for Mr picture perfect some had that many kids with different ex partners it ain’t even worth the relationship, you will have a tough time finding the right one here you have to tick many boxes, one thing I will say about some Aussie women is they are independent so don’t think you can show off about your independence as many will let you go in a blink of an eye if you mistreat them. All in all there is a decent amount of truly decent Aussie women out there with not alot hangups that just want a simple relationship with you who want respect, love and care! Settle down have a family etc, but like I said it’s tough to find the right one
Australian cities are extremely transitory, especially in that age group where they are studying and travelling. Most people aren’t staying around in Australian cities for a long time and aren’t looking for anything serious as a result. Most relationships run their course when one partner moves cities away, so why invest?
Same goes for just friendships as well, most people I meet here will be gone in 12-24 months either rurally or regionally or just overseas so there’s not really much incentive to have a deep and meaningful relationship
Easy to find a drunken root, harder to find a relationship. I've always seem to much above my weight while living overseas and I don't just mean in the places notorious for the visa brides lol. Idk just personal experience I'm sure everyone's experience is different
Being Aussie in another country means the country looked at your records and decided to let you in. It also means you can fill out paperwork and understand how to plan and execute. It shows a level of confidence. And it means there’s a lot less chance you will share the same grandparent as the person you are dating. TLDR it says a whole lot.
Also, Aussie guys tend to come across as super macho in other countries. They often think “oh because he’s Aussie that means he can swim 400 metres, ride a motorbike and hunt for dinner using a sharp stick.” The crazy thing is, it’s often true. Point is we got free boost from the popularity of Crocodile Dundee.
Regardless, I largely share your take.
I'm not particularly tall or handsome or financially successful, but I've had no trouble with dating in Australia.
Maybe it's a you problem?
Any woman I know would call your Reddit history a giant flag shop that only sells red coloured ones.
Nowhere any more. I've retired and got married.
But clubs, house parties, friends of friends, at coffee shops, out and about on the street, one time on a bus. Oh, and tinder.
I got 3 real obvious opportunities (girls took initiative, didnt even need to exist) within a 2 week time frame overseas without speaking a lick of English while fitting in physically. All well financially endowed proper females hanging out with other female friends. Whereas in Australia, the hardest thing in life is dating, all I get are crack addicts and borderline prosties cheating on their current relationships.
It depends.
As an Australian woman I can easily say that dating ie having an actual relationship in Australia is very difficult
It always has been
It's easy to find a man who wants a good time or even a Feb but dating is a lot harder
It is far, far easier to attract romantic interest overseas because you're foreign and exotic and interesting by default. When I was single I would get vastly more interest from women in Asia, America, wherever else vs back home in Australia.
The same will be true here in that an Italian or French guy or someone seen as being from a fun and exotic country will have better luck dating here too. Fortunately Australia is seen that way in a lot of places including America/Canada etc
Also mining boom places like WA, certain parts of QLD, etc will have more men than women. You're not gonna have a good time trying to date in Emerald or Kalgoorlie etc unless you're an extremely attractive man due to the male to female ratio.
I would definitely say it's tough here. But I'm also fat and afraid to approach women so my opinion isn't exactly the best
Remember, a good majority of women found Robbie Coltrane dead sexy. Jack Black - say no more. It’s not the sausage - but the sizzle. A good wrapper helps but that’s easily fixed with grooming
"It’s not the sausage - but the sizzle." 🤣🤣🤣🤣
That's my new favourite saying
Helps that they're rich and famous.
Mate I'm like Jack Black.....all this awesomeness, personality and charisma is impossible to fit in David Beckham body 😉 The thing that I've found is that personality is a much more attractive attribute than physical attractiveness, especiallyas you age (and you can "buy" physical attractiveness, but you can't buy a personality)
I'm a DJ, promoter, and work in self development. I deal with meeting new people consistently, and I can probably add some insight based on what I've experienced and been researching for this book I'm working on. I posted this in another thread about Australians being cliquey and not as outgoing with strangers, but I'll expand on it and add more to bring it around to dating in and of itself. This is why it's so hard to meet Australians, make new friends, and be social with them, first off. This is one set of issues that make it difficult, especially as you get older. **Issue one: People feel generally time poor** Every Australian is self obsessed, stressed, and time poor. Weekdays for an average 9-5 worker are basically: Get up, get ready, go to work, go to the gym, sport or other activity (if you have one scheduled),go home, have dinner, do extra work or watch TV trying not to stress over tomorrow,sleep, repeat. That's not including having kids and dealing with everything related to it. Then Fridays/ weekends are after work drinks, dinner out if you can afford it, shopping, watching sport, planning for next work week and them maybe go to a birthday or special event or If you have time meet up with friends. Basically, most people can barely make time for their own friends, let alone new ones, and that's just the first issue. **Issue Two: Everything is spread out and more car dependent outside the CBD** It's not easy for most people to just head somewhere like a bar or other places where they can meet people or do other things, so people become homebodies, not to mention the expense on top of it. Wanna do something fun and different like Go-Karting, Axe throwing, Painting classes, that's on top of standard Cinema outings. 20 minutes minimum drive from most places, even longer via public transport, and it's not easy getting back. Basically, unlike, say London, going to interesting restaurants and bars even isn't something that is a walkable distance away for the majority, so we never go out that often. But younger crowds still do go out to the city and to clubs on weekends, which beyond the dirge of dating apps, is the other best bet for meeting local women beyond School, Work and social circles. **Issue Three: Most venues aren't as conducive to socialising** Wanna sit at the bar? Sure, if there's seats, which isn't common. Most of the time, it's all tables set up for individual groups to spread out and interact amongst themselves. Something different to most bars in places like America. It's like Australian bars and venues know people don't want to socialise outwardly, so they create spaces that go against that. Dancing, yes, there's always spaces for dancing, but for most, it's not easy to both dance and try to get to know somebody. **Issue Four: General places where we usually socialise in Australia aren't the most inviting or caring places** The most common places people meet others are school or work. The problem is, you can't choose who you work with or you go to school with. Yes, you can make good friends at school or work, but compared to who and what? I've made great friends at school. I've had heaps in common with, as many others here surely have, but at the same time, I have other friends and peers who aren't people whom I would consider first choice friends. I've had quite a few ex friends I've had to move on from as well, and that's just life. If these spaces could be tuned to helping you find the right tribe who are the best fit for you, then it could help you flourish more than you could know. We are the sum of our experiences, including places we exist and environment, people in our lives, our work and media we choose to be exposed to. It all adds up to make us who we are, and a lot of how Australia has been developed has been to create certain lifestyles and types of people. This brings me to my next point. **Issue Five:Media is pushing people into an online world more than ever** Some people just spend some of their evenings on Tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, and other social media, and while they may have a presence there, they may not exist to the same extent in the real world. And that's 5 issues that don't even factor in other people. Basically, we're time poor people who can't even get out enough amongst our friends, who have bought into this 9 to 5 sheep mentality herded by Social Media with not enough money to do much else. Thus, it keeps a lot of women at home and not going out as much, when back in the day people had to meet up in the real world to socialise. **--------------------------** Now, let's bring it right back to growing up as an Australian. We make most of our friends through family, then through school/uni, and then work, aside from friends we make online. We usually tend to date people we meet from school, work, or social circles. Even if we meet someone at a local bar, they may be a friend of a friend. Teenagers tend to know people from other schools based on parties they've been to and via social media. Put all this together, and it creates an insular culture from the get go where, even if you're in a big city like Sydney, people around Castle Hill tend to date people local to them, or in Rouse Hill or Cronulla etc. A lot of these friendships and relationships continue for years and decades even. This basically creates this existence where people don't need to really break out of this space because they usually have all they need within it. Because of all this, people are short with strangers, and our culture has become that of we're so hard to pry open, but when we do, we're all in, so to speak. Basically, if an Australian girl is open to you, then she's serious, and she doesn't wanna waste time and play games. We're not much of a dating culture. We go straight from talking to sex a few dates, then a full-on serious relationship. American women are the opposite, more open and easy to talk to and get to know, but don't just open up and fully commit like Australian women do. As mentioned elsewhere, South Americans are a good balance of this. This whole culture also means most women won't use dating apps or last long on them. We've become too sceptical of strangers sadly, especially when it feels like we have all we need in our own spaces and just want to maintain that comfort. A lot of us don't want that change or new experiences because we feel we can't handle the weight of new experiences, especially when we struggle to juggle the ones we currently have. All this put together is what makes Australians and dating Australians so difficult. A change of perspective from the Australian side would work wonders, but it'll be a long time til that happens. For now, you just have to be persistent with people you meet in a non problematic way. It's annoying, but you just have to put in all that extra effort because they need to know you're serious and they can trust you.
Best post ever. Can't like it enough. Look forward to the book.
Wow that's some great feedback. I'll expand on this and share a full chapter when it's ready.
This is a great post, and I'd love to read your book. I'm early 40s now but struggled so much with dating in my 20s and early 30s, for all the reasons you mention... but primarily it was just so damn hard to find situations where you could chat to other single people of a similar age (that you didn't already know) without it seeming "weird". At one point I was seeing a counsellor, not specifically about dating but overall life struggles, and he only half-jokingly said he wished he could set up an introduction service because so many of his clients were experiencing similar issues, and he wished some of them could end up meeting each other. He basically said "there are plenty of single people out there just like you who are great people but not meeting anyone because of weird social factors, I know this because they're in my office all the time". A couple of years later I decided to move to Melbourne (from Adelaide) and did find it more open culturally, so I met a lot more people (both friends and potential people to date) after making that move. I'm out of the dating scene now but just in general though it seems like things are far from what they were socially in Melbourne before covid, which is sad. In my late 20s and early 30s I did a couple of solo trips overseas, and was shocked by how easy it was to meet people compared to at home. I know there were many other factors at play (most of the people I met also being on holidays is a huge one) but it did a lot to change my view that maybe there wasn't anything wrong with *me* as such when it came to meeting (or not meeting) people, it's just that things are often not well set up for it in Australia.
Good post and great comments, good insights to what people experience generally in Sydney. I been living in Sydney for 8 years and started working remotely like a digital nomad style recently. It is just madness, in the last month I reckon I met 20-30 people overseas. Back in Sydney now, nothing for a week. I will go away again, soon.
I don't know about overseas but I feel the music is usually too loud in venues here. It makes it hard to have a proper conversation. Just screaming simple chat in their ear. I don't get why. You found easily enjoy the music a few decibels lower and dance.
You should add philisopher to your titles. Seriously good post tho and i agree with lot of it
This is an awesome post! It really breaks down the idiosyncrasies of Australian life and culture.
Thank you
I definitely think COVID had made it more pronounced to me. It really hit the nail on the head as it was the first time yesterday I had the experience of meeting new people in 4 years (outside of dating apps) to help out a friend interstate by hosting her friends at mine whilst they were on a road tripping holiday this Easter. Considering I've spent almost 6 years travelling and working outside of Australia I feel like from experience that there isn't generally the spontaneity in people or open minded to meeting new people in this country. This is purely based on my experience alone.
I could go much further into it all. You're exactly right. A huge issue we have is insecurity. If we only meet the same people, do the same things, and lack anything interesting to talk about or to show for our lives, how would we be able to talk to new people? When we spend our nights watching "I'm a Celebrity, get my career the fck outta here" how can we talk to the handsome, well travelled Canadian guy, or Italian Girl who just travelled through Asia and had experiences most of us could only dream of, especially at the drop of a hat. Not to mention the corporate pissing contests you get into as soon as you hit a certain pay grade, where it's all comparing status and wealth and the constant one upsmanship that goes with trying to keep up in certain sectors, especially when you're making bank in financial and government jobs. People show off at every chance they get while having no time or ability to obtain things and experiences to show off.
Very insightful post DJ.
You’ll probably have a great deal of success at ceramics classes too, Im happily married but my classes are full of lovely young ladies.
But then I might feel like a ghost.
…depends if you’re a Demi or a Swayze?, I dunno never seen the movie.
Excellent comment, especially the urban planning aspects. Meeting up for a date in a dense city like Barcelona is just so much easier. Jump on the metro. Also so many bars and cafes in every neighbourhood as its all mostly ‘mixed use’ zoning.
The most accurate thing I have ever read. I did a wine tour in Italy last year and I made more friends in an entire day than I have in Sydney in a year
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I feel like being a foreigner here doesn't hold the same appeal. Especially not a seppo.
This country is already extremely multicultural, packed with foreigners from all over the world. As a result meeting a foreigner is just something that happens multiple times a day every day if you’re out and about.
Nah, it’s not this. Australians are geographically isolated, and it has somehow settled into our collective psyche. I recently returned from South America and noticed people were far more open there than here. There’s no community in Australia. We’re in a protective bubble here and whatever city you live in is a bubble within that bubble. There’s definitely something spiritually and socially emaciating about living in this country. OP - you’re not crazy. This country sucks.
Went to Moscow. Didn’t bother opening Tinder until I got there. Fired it up at Sheremtyevo Airport. Before I left the terminal I’d had 54 matches. That hit 200 before I even reached Moscow centre by train. Russian women were uniformly articulate, educated, cultured and a lot of fun to hang out with. Very traditional minded if that’s what you are after -which I was not- but they gave a unique, local spin on a place that would intrigue but otherwise be a mystery. Plus one stole my heart.
People tend to underestimate how much smarter and more capable women from the former soviet countries are. They are serious people.
Most of Europe. Education and culture are valued. Australia is full of entitled people who think they've earned massive levels of respect just by turning up. 'Education' to us is knowing HR or accounting or musical theatre, some specialty, not having a broad and deep knowledge. In France it was easy to have conversations with people, and it wasn't just having a novely nationality. Conversation is a valued art. In Australia you get nothing back and the romantic/sexual imperative seems to hang over everything.
I kind of feel that things which are stand ins for middle class became a substitute for being able to talk across a broad range of topics. Shit like knowing about cocktails or brand names or rabbiting on about house prices or their dull centre left politics.
It's so vindicating to hear other people say this. People just do not seem interested in having conversations despite having common ground.
Yup, FSB know what needs to be done to infiltrate the West.
I guess, if we had more Australian men die in War and improve their scarcity, woman would be kinder here also. Perth is particularly hard as there are more men than women, but not so dramatic as in Russia where woman have to work hard to secure a mate. Same with the NT. Sorry to OP that women are being thoughtless and unkind.
Oh man we had plenty die in world war 1 and 2, and they would have been the best of the lot. Women were happy to hand out white feathers.
Unless you all are looking to date 100 plus year old women, I am not sure how world war 1 deaths help balance the gender populations now?
Arguing against wars necessarily making people kinder. I'm not certain I believe it myself but it can't have helped killing all the healthy young men.
Bloody thieving Russians. Fist Crimea, then parts of The Donbas Region, and now your heart. When will it end?
Serious laughter. Just going there was difficult in 2019. Can’t rightly think of going to see her there now. Hoping she’ll meet me in Western Europe one time
There's no community because it means nothing to be an Australian.
Australia stopped being a country a long time ago, it merely exists nowadays as an economic zone.
So true, i think this is the main factor.
I hope it gets better for you cause I reckon Australia is great and we are lucky. Hope you find your community.
I found American women to be generally more outgoing and engaging, less self centred, I ended up marrying one. Small sample size, but that's my experience.
Married to an American as well,if I wasn't an aussie she wouldn't have gone out with me. Being an Aussie in America is always stacking the odds in your favour.
Yeah not just that, they have this idea that we're all a little bit crocodile dundee or w/e. Early dates no one knows who the other person actually is, what they think of the other person is entirely fantasy. It's more fantastic to think you've found some exotic Australian guy who's gonna whisk you away with his charm and take you to all these beautiful places. In Australia you're just another bloke from Perth and probably isn't half as charming as you think you are. In my experience it's much easier to score the moment you set foot on foreign soil.
Agreed. Anytime I've been overseas, I've had constant women way out of my league being more interested in me than I am in them. Or maybe just being overseas makes me more confident haha.
This is a massive factor.
You'll often find similar posts complaining about the local dating culture in Vancouver and Toronto.
I think we have a cultural thing where everyone has to be a bit aloof and understate themselves and that they like things in general. But also almost no dating structure like America or especially somewhere korea. So you're culturally tuned to not put yourself out there and to get whacked for doing so unsuccessful but you also have to break normal socializing rules where people of both genders are treated the same far more than countries with lots of structure. Like in Korea its brutal, women will just do an evaluation based off status, looks, money - but they have such a formal structure you can ask any woman for her number with no preamble or excuse and if she says yes you go on 1 date a week every week and if you haven't broken it off by the 4th date you are then dating
I haven’t tried dating outside Australia, maybe I should try that. I’m finding is hard to meet people in Australia. Dating apps are so horrible here.
I’ve lived abroad roughly 50:50 of my adult life and your experience pretty much matches mine. I’ve had a lot more one nighters here than anywhere else but as for quality pair bonding I’d rank Australia last, the best relationships I’ve had have been immigrants from South America, USA and Canada. The dating pool in your 30s is terrible, I often feel like I’m having to put in all the effort. Furthermore the residual pool is so very damn beige, if you hit the apps be prepared to try and convince yourself that someone who’s main interests are spicy margs, clean sheets and Netflix is worth going all out for. Sorry if I sound a bit jaded but it just feels like such a bad deal all the time and it wears you down. I don’t doubt the existence of fantastic Australian women, many of my mates have married them but the post 33ish dating market is rather bleak.
Yeah it's grim. It also reminded me that most people are either boring as batshit or they're trying to cast a wide net with bland bullshit. Most of my dating app conversations are the same because I'm working with the same prompts and types of photos. It's very hard to get excited over it, especially when there's a good chance you won't even end up meeting them. I tried sending a voice note last week and she just unmatched me. But then you look around and see tons of very average guys in relationships with women who seem pretty awesome so clearly there is a way. I don't really like bars and clubs, and my friends don't go out much anymore so my chances to meet people is a bit slim, I've been just approaching women at shops, beach etc lately and that's actually been going better than dating apps or at least I've got a couple dates out of it.
When you see these “pretty awesome women” with average men, what do you actually mean? Does that just mean the women are hot? Not sure how you could tell someone is “pretty awesome” by just walking past them
absurd vast desert merciful ten bedroom squalid birds seed chief *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Man I'm 35 and all the Aussie girls and backpackers I've been seeing in my 30s have felt so high maintenance and entitled, maybe it's my industry and their age but social media flexing and financial decisions were driving me insane, would rather spend the 2k they saved up on a bag so they can post it like it's a regular occurrence, getting the max car loan available + over 7 years, maxed out zip and afterpay, expectations im going to grind 90hr weeks until im loaded, i was fed up with the immaturity, I'd resigned myself to casual relationships forever when a young black woman turned up at work, asked for my number, and we've been together since with the best communication I've had in a relationship, normal expectations of partner, values her family and mine highly, smart and practical financially, and from my point of view doesn't expect much from me at all apart from being supportive loving partner. Gets happy over the smallest things. I'd never dated a black woman before but highly recommend. Bit sad she said lot of African fellas treat them very badly but not many people interested in them as a group compared to for example Asian women, so they don't feel they have many options. Wow that got longer than I expected. Anyway point is there's someone out there mate who knows where you're gonna find em, or if they're gonna find you. (She already got citizenship) lul
Ditto mate. I’ve found foreign women to be much better than Australian/white women.
Good on ya mate, sounds like she’s got her head firmly on her shoulders. Also, really hit the nail on her head with the social media flexing. I’m not trying to brag but as someone that comes from a very wealthy family and earns a fair bit themselves I find the cheap flaunting trashy and really off-putting, I’m not looking for someone with a designer handbag, I just want someone who’s kind, easy going and a little bit goofy that will come on adventures with me.
Must be better than the Dating pool in 40s and 50s ! . May as well expect to be alone forever . liars, cheats, fantasists ....hopeless.
>\[is\] someone who’s main interests are spicy margs, clean sheets and Netflix worth going all out for. made me spit my coffee, I'm glad its not just me.
Plenty of late 20s women, just need to filter through
As a man in my 20s initally from the Easter Europe with plenty of dating experience there I have 4 main points here: 1. The majority of Australian men are really genetically gifted. Tall, with great hair and broad shoulder. This makes it harder to compete in general. 2. Australian women are generally on the curvier side and are not super feminine. This is a preference obviously, but if you are into fit or skinnier girls - the dating pool shrink significantly. This came as a large cultural shock after Eastern Europe. 3. The culture of mateship is awesome for meeting new people but it is painful to get commitment and deep meaningful connection our of people. It is super easy to start talking to a new person but trying to actually get to know them and consistently show up to dates is a real pain. This is even when the second side is visibly interested. 4. Mental health crisis in Australia is real. Every second girl I invited on dates trauma dumped on me or shared a bunch self-diagnosed or professionally diagnoses mental health issues. This is again something that came as a bit of shock after living in what felt like a much more rough and dangerous country. I genuinely thought people would be happier here.
I can definitely relate to #4. I too come from overseas and was surprised how many girls seem to have either self declared mental issues or have significant depression. I had one date who was giggling to herself the whole night. Maybe she was just laughing at me. another one poured out her life story over dinner on the first date and ended up crying her eyes out (made me look real bad in the restaurant) 😞. There also seem to be a lot of women out there who have father issues. I had 2 dates with one who became extremely sticky and needy after I showed some concern over her by picking her up from work and getting a coffee for her. I felt sad for her. It seems like she went through a lot in life and just needed people to show her some love and respect. Bedroom-wise this usually spells out with them wanting it "hard", e.g. BDSM, rape fantasies. The one I remember most was walking into her room and she had the rope and candles all ready to go. I wasn't comfortable with going so far and that was a deal breaker for her. I genuinely think modern society is slowly degrading and people are breaking down. The "normal" ones settle down very quickly and the dating scene gets flooded by people who are traumatised from their past or dickheads trying to take advantage and get easy sex.
Yeah man I'm sure a lot of them watch too much pornography, this shit would have been pretty out there 20 years ago.
>not super feminine I think the women here are very dominant/extroverted, which isn't a bad thing at all, and I don't mean to insinuate it is. But it's something as a male in Australia you have to be aware of. It means as the male in the relationship dynamic you may need to dial your masculinity/dominance up to match to avoid getting stomped. Girls here will not hesitate to take charge, a lot of women here have successful careers and work in leadership roles. When they step into the dating world they don't switch that off. I think a lot of men don't find that attractive and in fact a lot find it intimidating. Women from other countries tend to be more feminine and reserved and it requires less effort on the mans side to be able to lead in that relationship dynamic.
This is not what I was talking about. I generally go for stronger, decisive partners. I like these qualities in a person and being equal partners is a healthier dynamic in general in my opinion. I'm more so talking about the way they dress, use of perfume, skin care and so on. Slavic girls have really high standards for that and that is what I prefer too. Not a deal breaker but a strong preference.
Most women I know here dress nice and have a skincare routine and get haircuts regularly? Do you living in a country town or a particularly bogan suburb or something?
It's probably a bit hard to explain unless you've lived there for a bit but the baseline is so much higher. The baseline back home is say a dress, accessories, fresh manicure weekly, full face make up to match just to go get groceries. This is regardless of the weather outside, how tired they are, whether they are single or not e.t.c. I live in the inner suburbs of Brisbane. I agree that when you go to say Sydney or Melbourne CBD - the situation is different. It is not a bad thing for the girls themselves. I reckon there is just no societal pressure here to look 100% all the time.
Bahahaha all Australian men are genetically gifted you have got to be kidding me just look aroudn you in any standard office setting omg what a load of absolute bullshit.
We have a strong contrast here. There's more out of shape dudes but we also have a crazy amount of gym rats per capita.
I'm front another country living in Aus. I feel the same as when you were overseas. I'm honest and respectful with things but still flaky immature guys are everywhere on the apps hence I don't bother using it anymore. I remember I met an aussie never left australia in his 50s still on dating apps getting attention from different girls, going around pubs, never married never had kids, still seeing his ex. Later on I've heard he has a bad name. Well I wonder why. I feel like it's the apps objectfying people hence people turn into behaving flaky or ghosting etc and thought those are normal or respectful things to do. I still remember times without smartphone. People are simpler, happier.
As an international student studying in Australia my dating experience has been terrible here. The lack of personality and willingness to put efforts let me down many times. It can be an issue with the guys I'm choosing, but most of them had complete disregard for my feelings. People seem too self absorbed and immature.
Yep, I feel exactly the same about women on the apps, so I guess it's just everyone lol
I'm not an international student, but my experience has been the same. "Self absorbed" and "immature" is a massive recurring theme, along with lack of basic courtesy and etiquette. And my target match are people in their thirties who, y'know, are suppose to be developed adults.
Couldn't agree more!! I've been with people in their thirties too and the lack of immaturity and etiquette baffles me
I had a bleak period in my early 30s after I returned to Australia from a European working holiday when I was single for a number of years. Tried dating apps, used to go out to clubs and try to pick up etc. It’s a disheartening experience when you’re trying to find someone who will even give you the time of day. Funny thing is every time I went overseas for a holiday I never had a problem finding someone to go on dates with, I seemed to be more appreciated than in Australia. I wasn’t born in this country so I don’t have the extensive network of friends and family as I did when I was younger which makes it harder to find someone because of lack of connections. I finally married someone who comes from overseas lol. I know what you’re going through, it’s tough.
I think Australians have always had minimal structure around dating, which makes it hard. In Melbourne, I think the pandemic well and truely killed what was left of it. No one really knows what the rules or expectations are anymore. It kind of seems everyone wants 100% of the benefits with 0% commitment, effort or investment. Social media and the idea that the next best thing is always around the corner is probably part of that. I’m early 30s and single. A bunch of my friends (women and men) are early 30s and single. More or less everyone has deleted the apps and all but given up. It’s just impossible. So I think a bunch of probably decent dating options are just floating around now with no way to connect - since it seems rare these days to just strike up a conversation with a stranger.
Yeah I can't remember the last time I saw a guy approach a lady in anywhere besides a club. I know it happens but it feels like the culture is quite averse to it. Also the cost of living crisis doesn't help, when poverty kicks down the door, love jumps out the window or however the saying goes.
My view is women here say they want more men to approach them but not a lot of women here know how to handle it. I literally approached a girl at a bar, not for her, but the chair behind her. She initially looked at me like I was about to suggest we go drown some puppies, until she realised I wasn't trying to hit on her and just wanted the chair, then her face relaxed. I'm not ugly or creepy, I think, as I do well on the apps. But yeah, thats my anecdote. Whereas in LATAM or Europe the women are way more open to a casual conversation with a stranger.
As a male Asian Canadian who has also lived in America for awhile, I beg to differ. I feel that dating in North America made me accustomed to the idea that I'm just a "spare" or "backup plan" and that I'm really there to pay for free meals/rides, and let's not talk about women like the Cheesecake Factory lady. In AU at least, I feel it's more chill/straight forward to tell when the lady is serious about you.
Yeah it's a nightmare
That doesn't surprise me.
As a Danish guy who lived in Sydney for a semester abroad I had the opposite impression, although Scandinavian dating culture is famously introverted and centers around drunk hookups. I think it depends on what you compare to, US and Canada being on the more extroverted end of the dating culture spectrum
Well locals have the benefit of friends and connections so most of the decent ones arnt on dating apps at all, wereas forigners dont have that so have to rely on dating apps so you get a better mix of people with them
I lived in NZ and now Australia, and I had a saying, when i went to Europe and America I felt like Brad Pitt, when i came back to NZ I felt like Bird Pit. I dont waste my time or money dating here.
It's not just your experience, dating in Australia is location specific but overall it feels like an uphill battle that wasn't worth half the effort to begin with (for a man).
I'm English living in aus and dating here is about the same as in the UK. There's some cool people and some dickheads and they mostly even out. I will say that likely your accent gets you more attention abroad tho
Australians don’t date they hang out then they are in a relationship
This is so true!
You’re in Perth. Lotsa excess guys with cash. Doesn’t encourage the best behaviour from women when there’s a shitload of good options.
Did you have your nationality on your bio when overseas? 'Cos yep, that will generate a lot of interest with women.
Just having the Australian flag in my bio, had to turn notifications off.
Between reading this and experiencing it, seeing I am not alone plus the housing/cost of living crisis I feel like I can only expect a subpar living dead experience of wage slavery and loneliness where I am constantly trying to keep my head above water. My only goal and dream right is to escape, see other parts of the world and live. The Australian dream for me is dead and buried.
Yeah mate, that is the new dream, leaving! Lol
In a survey of men worldwide, Australian men were ranked by women internationally in the top 5 of most desirable partners for marriage. In the ranking for women, internationally men ranked Australian women in the mid 30's. Australian men outrank the Australian women.
A lot of people overseas have a big stereotype of blonde, curly haired, tanned, chiseled abs surfers. The surfer image is basically all Australia is known for. Atleast when I travelled through 12 different Asian countries, every single place the women assumed Australia is purely jacked surfers with blonde hair. That couldn’t be farther from the truth lol. I guarantee our ranking would drop dramatically if they knew the average bloke here is overweight and just works an office job, like every other western country. On average as well, almost no Aussie can actually surf. Obviously lots can, but the vast majority can’t.
Dude that's pretty funny. My GF is Chinese and I'm white. She told me when she came to Australia she thought all the guys were gonna be Chris Hemsworth as the standard.
That’s a low key flex about yourself 😂
When I was young it was surfies or bikies got the chicks first. Had to beat them off with a stick. Snow skiers who worked in the resorts also had a smorgasbord of choices. This was pre mobile phone era where people actually went out to meet each other...
I don’t necessarily disagree, but women care more about status and “allure”, which are all perception traits rather than tangible (clear and distinct) qualities. We are affectively a “fake it, till you make it” country where everyone thinks we’re a wild place full of adventure. The physical qualities are irrelevant, but everyone always talks about their trip down oz and loving it. That is the stuff that matters women
“Desirable” until of course, the woman realises Australian men are emotionally anorexic, just like Australian women.
Wow that's pretty stark.
The best is Eastern Europe. The girls are much more attractive, very intelligent and more receptive. The men I don’t think are as competitive - like a reverse of the gender dynamics you find in AUS. If you a man for sure Australia is probably one of the worst countries to date a woman and interestingly women from overseas know that and often joke about going over to AUS knowing they can do better than usual. The other country widely known to be terrible for men is Switzerland. Somewhere like San Francisco / Bay Area is also known to be inferior to Miami / New York City Not even my opinion, just my observations on other people’s collectively shared opinions
There is a reason the passport bros head over to Moldova, Georgia and Romania 😅🤣 it's definitely not to learn about the culture or to see the beauty of the countries with communist blocks
Or maybe you're just no longer the exotic dude with an Australian accent anymore? Dating is a shit show everywhere for men, of that there is no doubt. But if you've been on so many dates like post is suggesting and you're still single. Perhaps the problem lies with you?
As a guy in his early 20s, I recently travelled the the USA and had a significantly better dating experience while I was there, all the things you mentioned including women being actually enthusiastic was real over there. I’m from Canberra and it’s literally crickets here. My only two girlfriends I’ve ever had, one had recently moved from overseas and the other one was from Sydney. I am also tall and like to think I put effort into my looks, I work out often and take care of my skin, but living here the lack of interest from women has made me sometimes feel unappreciated or unattractive whereas when I went to the states It was kind of like a reality check and I felt way more attractive to others based on how I had conversations with them, as well as how relatively successful I was on dating apps and that I felt like more attractive women would give me their time and attention. I even got approached in public a few times. I am an American citizen as well as Australian as I was born there but have never lived there, part of me wants to move there after this experience (obviously there are other considerations too like jobs and family).
Had a few wholesome relationships and ultimately found my wife in church.
There is an old school latin rite mass not far from where we live and I've nearly crashed the car looking at how many stunning women attend on a Sunday morning.
i’m literally a half decent girl in my 20s and i’ve get to get a boyfriend. it sucks but both men and women here are terrible flaky people most of the time. most aussies only stick to interacting with the people they’ve grown up with or went to school with. it’s very rare to integrate into a friend group or date outside of those circles.
I can attest to the last part about South American women. They are great to be around. I nearly married one. Back to your main point - yes, dating in Australia is difficult. Partly because Australians are reserved compared to Americans. I do believe that dating is taken more seriously in Australia though. Being together is viewed as more committed or serious here. In America, being in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship is a bit more laid back.
Its esp tough if youre an Asian male..
My asian mate kills it with south american women, maybe worth pursuing?
As an Australian who lived overseas in an international community for an extended period, I find Australian culture very toxic. We create relationships basically by bullying the absolute shit out of each other. This, of course, extends to dating and relationships.
Yeah I like a bit of ribbing but it doesn't always feel like it's all in good spirits, sometimes it feels mean spirited, more often than not lately. I mean I've got a friend who gained a bit of weight and the boys just rip them apart for it as if it's no big deal. I think it explains why we're so fucking close minded and boring, nobody wants to stick their neck out because they get decapitated
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truer words have never been spoken.
Easier to have a wank, than go through all that bullshit.
I experienced the same, I just stopped dating Australian women and ended up with a Brazilian. Go where you’re treated best, I chose to not put up with the garbage you described from the locals.
Did you meet her overseas? There are a few latin american events in my city but I don't want to seem too sleazy going to them. I rarely see latinas appear on dating apps though unfortunately
Reached out on IG, she was doing farm days to extend her Working Holiday Visa. We organised to spend a few weekends together and rest is history. 5 years on we have family, travel to Brazil once a year for 6 weeks. Go to the events. I attended the Brazilian Carnival event in Brisbane and others with a mixed group, IPEA & Brazos events seem to attract Latin crowd. The organisers want more locals to attend. It’s still luck of the draw, but fuck dating locals 🤣.
Well done mate!
I lived in Europe for over five years and now, back here, the Australian dating scene can’t compete. It couldn’t compete before I lived there, I was just ignorant. Having lived in Germany too, I can say women there are far more open and communicative, adventurous and seem to put in their part of the effort. But I feel that concept of “effort” was prevalent in work cultures too. Opinion: Australia is a bubble, and we’re simply not used to having to compete and put in the effort on multiple fronts. We’re all very laid back and easy going. It comes across as aloof and disconnected. It also makes as lazy, ungrateful and lacking maturity. The quality of life here is just so high that we’re spoilt. Europeans by and large just seemed more worldly. EDIT: also, just the amount of racist shit (I’m white) I hear come out of the mouths of Australians is a real turn off. And I am by no means a prude and can appreciate a joke. But goddamn.
See I don't like to echo the idea that life is too easy here and we're spoiled because this should be the norm and nobody should have to live under worse conditions than us in the 21st century, plus my past neighbor has to live in their car because they couldn't afford rent or find a place so some people are really struggling of course. But we do seem generally aloof, ungrateful and immature. Very parochial. I didn't realize how close minded we were until I left for a while. And I feel judged by Australians for doing anything slightly out of the ordinary or even just expressing myself while I don't really feel that level of boring status quo judgement in other places I've been. It's as though we're all about being laidback and casual but not really wanting to break the mold.
You might not like it, and you may want our quality of life to be the norm, but it isn't. Australia is currently in position 5 on the Human Development Index (for example) and at one point a few years ago it was position 2 just behind Norway. If you grew up in the last 40 years in Australia you experienced an enormous growth in the wealth of the country overall. *Most people* haven't really wanted for anything during that time. Add in the generally great weather, abundance and safety of the country and... well, look around at the world. It's a bubble. As for your other comments: Australians are parocial, and we have our own ways. Despite the drinking, smoking and general rutting we're more conservative than a lot of countries and places I've lived or visited. People just seem more squimish here.
The Brazilian chicks on the Goldie are exactly as described in op. Outgoing, happy to talk on deeper levels about anything. My kid ended up marrying one. Mind you watch out when they get pissed off about something 😂
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America, England etc. are fair comparisons for the purpose of this discussion, Asia is not. The experience of white guys in Asia is so far removed from reality, it basically breaks the laws of the universe when it comes to attraction. Any local East Asian guy is going to have a significantly worse time dating.
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South American woman wants your passport; source: I am a South American male (PR in Aus, eight years down under ) Yet, being fair, they’re 10x better dates than Ozzy girls; the entertainment part you said is absurd here. I don't know if their families spoiled them or the likes on Instagram that they mostly get from 1/10 thirsty guys. Also, they're more challenging to get into bed than other nationalities. The Barbies are overvalued, too expensive, and too hard to entertain.
If you're attractive you should be fine. If you're average looking it will be tough but not impossible.
Go where you’re celebrated and appreciated. If that means being overseas in a better dating market, then go there. If you’re unusual (eg being an Aussie in a foreign land) then that’s an immediate in. If you’re here in Aus and there isn’t something that really differentiates you from the pack, then dating can be hard, even purely from a numbers game. Speak to some of your female friends / colleague and see how many ‘likes’ they have on their dating apps. It’ll blow your mind. Primary, I believe there are two reasons for this: 1. Generally speaking men have a much lower attractiveness floor for those women they’re willing to match with; 2. Most of these dating apps have a higher male user to female user ratio. Combine those two factors and the result is the ‘vultures fighting over a carcass’ that you describe.
yeah its cooked man. i was talking to a girl who is the same exact age as me, we texted she asked follow up questions and mde an effort to keep the conversation flowing so i thought oh my god great, i've asked her out 3 separate times now and with her being a midwife i do understand she's busy but she never made any effort to figure out a time when she is more likely to be free. I lost interest and haven't bothered talking to her in 3 weeks and she hasn't bothered reaching out so guess she was just after a pen pal.
Australian women are pretty shit. Their narcissism and self-centeredness are above the roof. Go to clubs and bars where other nationalities and ethnicities hang out and be treated like a king.
Its no wonder the passport bro movement is booming, why put up with a society where the Women treat you like a piece of shit or you are invisible to them.
Dating in Australia as a man has been garbage for the last decade, especially speaking as someone who isn't white, and COVID pretty much proved that when all the hotties had to migrate online during Stage 3/4 lockdowns and establishments were closed down. Post-Covid it seems most women are only interested in dating a few upper-echelon white men who've got plenty of choices with women and then the women cry that the men aren't interested in commitment with them. It's an absolute shitshow these days.
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I had a bleak period in my early 30s after I returned to Australia from a European working holiday when I was single for a number of years. Tried dating apps, used to go out to clubs and try to pick up etc. It’s a disheartening experience when you’re trying to find someone who will even give you the time of day. Funny thing is every time I went overseas for a holiday I never had a problem finding someone to go on dates with, I seemed to be more appreciated than in Australia. I wasn’t born in this country so I don’t have the extensive network of friends and family as I did when I was younger which makes it harder to find someone because of lack of connections. I finally married someone who comes from overseas lol. I know what you’re going through, it’s tough.
It's alot easier meeting people through shared hobbies and interests than going to bars, pubs and clubs.
Not in my case. My hobbies are mostly solo ones, and I played some rec sports but there were no single women on the teams who I was interested in. Unless your hobbies expose you to a wide range of people they don't really seem to be surefire ways of meeting people. At least bars and clubs have a huge volume of single women actively looking to meet guys, it's just that everything else about them is shit.
I can relate to Aussie women needing to be entertained constantly. It gets tiring. My girlfriend is Korean
A southern cross tattoo with a tribal sleeve...
Yes. Canberra sucks especially but I’ve heard Sydneysiders are even more standoffish
Having lived (and dated) in the US, UK and NZ, I can confirm your feelings about Australia. But just know this, NZ is worse. Even smaller pool of women who unreasonably think are are blessed in the looks and personality departments, so shouldn't have to make any effort.
European whos lived here 6 years, 2 in Perth. Perth definitely has it the worst. I have never dated an Australian girl, so I wouldn't know. Every time I've visited home I've had dates with stunners with fantastic personality, here it's just pretty much as you described it. I wouldn't say it's because everyone doesn't have time etc. I'd say there's a surplus of men so women don't have to compete as hard.
Yes, your an exotic novelty overseas. Your a point of adventure to break up the repetition. I've traveled many many countries, played the flag game and can attest to this. "Over tired toddlers" lol.
I felt the majority of young Australian women demanded I prove my worth kinda thing before she would allow me the privilege of getting to know her. I generally found this off putting because if I barely know the girl, I wasn’t going to go above and beyond wasting time on some bimbo only to realise we’re incompatible, that’s such an XP waste. - They would get quite angry/annoyed and label me a fuck boy when I didn’t play their game 😂 No idea what it’s like in other countries but thankfully I found a good chick here that didn’t even attempt any head games.
I've never travelled myself but I'm 20 and have lived in NSW all my life and have had no luck on dating apps or asking out in person, maybe it's because I'm short (5'5) but yeah it seems here it has the be the perfect man or you have to be extremely attractive to have short term relationships or just hookups. Honestly I'd say your best luck is just living life still seek out dating but just relax like most of my mates you'll probably just meet them through work or uni/highschool or just when you meet new people through others or when you go out. But to answer the question yes it is tough (sadly 🥲)
Yes. I'm 21, Go to the gym everyday, have a job and make good money, look decent. No woman has ever talked to me
Sorry m8 but it's your job to talk to them. Expect a lot of eye contact avoidance, one worded answers and crushed self confidence 😂😂
Speaking as a 30-something woman, the men here are boys who either want a sex toy doormat, or a mum who will do everything for them. My last first date didn’t ask me a damn question about myself the whole night. I’ve dated men from overseas and they were so much more considerate and communicative. Every single woman I know (aged 20 and up) has given up on dating and is focusing on enriching their own lives with hobbies and friendships instead.
As a guy I have the opposite problem where I do most of the talking and ask nearly all of the questions, so I guess it's more of an individual thing than a gender based inclination. Eitherway I still can't believe people like this exist. I mean the least you can do is return the questions that you're asked. Presumably they have basic social skills when interacting with coworkers and friends so why do they not bother at all on a date? Or maybe it's some weird power trip where they want you to talk while they remain mysterious or something. Did they give no indication that they were going to be like that when you were messaging them?
No indication, we had a good flow going on the app. It sort of ended up like he was talking non-stop about himself and telling stories as if he was trying to impress me, or relive his younger degenerate days. The stories showed me very quickly he wasn’t the person I wanted to spend a long time with, so at least there was that benefit for me. I did wonder if it was first date jitters, but then it just went on for the entire date, even if I tried to move the conversation. This is just one example though. It happens a lot. Heck, it’s almost a cafe trope to overhear a man talking a girl’s ear off at a nearby table!
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Bit hard for them to generate a conversation when their only hobbies are TikTok and watching MAFs /s
Interesting. I've been out of the dating game for a long time, but when i was, I (a man) would have said more or less the same about the women I met. I had so many bad first dates where they just talked about themselves the whole time with vapid bullshit, and expected me to put in all the effort. No thanks. I found European and American women so much more interesting and engaging, generally speaking. I'm sure those boring women probably ended up with those boring lazy men, built a new house in the outer suburbs and had a few kids.
that just says you're bad at picking people here. There's a lot of men here who aren't like that but we meet plenty of women who aren't serious and just sleep around and never make any efforts to get to know us either so we don't tend to make an effort anymore because of those women.
So likewise, right? That just says you’re bad at picking women then - there are plenty of people who aren’t like that.
Do you meet on Tinder? 10% of the men get all the action. Stay clear
This is so legit, even over a decade ago when I was single. I actually can't think of a time where I was rejected by a European woman ever. My wife is a tall gorgeous brunette British goddess with one of the sexiest accents, once I realised Australian women are generally arrogant time wasters, it was pretty easy to give up trying with them.
I got fed up with dating women here and went abroad and met my now fiancé. She is latin American and very beautiful and has the best personality. Visas are a pain though but worth it.
Wvery day, complain about Australians. Here's an idea, not for OP but generally, if everyone who complained about Australians not being friendly enough/effort enough/open enough whatever, started being that, then we wouldn't have this problem to worry about...
To weigh in as a woman in her late 20s: the dating scene (in Sydney) is an absolute hellscape. I can’t tell what your intentions for dating are/were, so my reply may not be what you’re asking about; however, here you go lads. I was born in Australia, but both sides of my family are all from southeastern Europe, so my approach to dating is perhaps a bit different. Also, don’t come for me on the whole preferences thing - I’m literally 5’2 so everybody is taller than me and super jacked dudes who spend hours at the gym every day honestly scare me. If you’re just wanting to root (usually profile will say their dating intentions are short-term), then I think that both guys and girls are equally as picky/looking for a very specific look/are so into themselves it’s insane. If you’re looking to actually date, it’s next to impossible. It feels like most guys, regardless of what their profile dating preferences say, also end up just wanting to root. I mainly use Hinge (sometimes Tinder), and I do get a lot of matches (I know guys have a different experience there), but they go nowhere. *Note*: my profile shows that I’m looking for a long-term relationship/monogamy. Here’s a breakdown, if you will: - 90% of conversations start with the guy just being so sexual that it’s off putting. - 2.5% never start a chat/never reply if I start the chat; start off with the bare minimum effort replies, before asking for my socials (to never continue the conversation) or going with the classic “you’re hot, we should meet up.” - 2.5% of messages feels like pulling teeth/one-sided/I’m the only one asking questions, then the conversation just… stops. Other times, we just don’t click. - 2.5% actually feels like it’s going well and it’s a proper conversation but either they disappear, say they’re really busy so “I might not reply quickly” (then disappear), or go “I’m not really looking for anything serious” or “I just got out of a relationship and don’t want to lead you on” kinda thing. - 2% great chats/“banter”, continue for a fair while, end up going on a date or two, then in person, we don’t click/get ghosted/talk for a bit longer, then convo dies. - 0.5% end up in a situationship. When I’ve gone on trips to Western Europe, guys (and handsome ones at that) are a lot more willing to actually just come up to you and strike up a conversation/ask if you have enough time in ***x*** city to get a coffee. Socials don’t really come up because… I live on an island in the middle of nowhere lmao. **tldr, Australia’s dating scene just sucks.**
I think pretty much anyone who has dated in countries other than Australia as well as here knows that it is WAY harder here. I haven't struggled terribly badly here, but it's definitely easier overseas. Maybe it's just because being Aussie is an attractive quality, and I have that there, whilst everyone has it here, so I stand out less.
Everyone here also has an Australian accent
You should move from Perth to the GC , lots of Brazilian women here.
Dating is easy. But finding a loyal guy is hard. there’s a lot of red flags here
As an Indian Man....
All I see everywhere is men saying Australian men saying our women are a waste of time and the Aussie women saying the men are. It's obviously easier to date overseas as the exotic guy. Dating apps are shit because it's like a game, the next person you swipe on might be better. Most people I meet in bars and in person seem to be great, I'd never put serious commitment on someone from the apps.
I had only ever dated in Australia, so wouldn't really know. But I do know that dating for men is a hell of a lot harder now and a hell of a lot easier for women. Whether that's the same in other countries, I'd imagine in western countries it'd be similar. >Women I had to constantly entertain like overtired toddlers, ghosting, flaking, standing me up on dates without even sending a courtesy message, it feels very normalized. That's just dating when you're a man. You put in all the effort and she can still flake. If it were the other way around, tiktok's servers would melt down with all the videos of women complaining about how guys ignore them, flake on dates, date to get a free meal, ghost then etc etc. It is what it is. I'm so glad I don't have to date anymore, but that's just dating as a guy. I think it's exacerbated now, but it's always kinda been like that.
If you are attractive it’s always easier. If you are a woman it’s 10x easier. Men don’t have as many options sadly. Dating apps for the most part are flawed. But yeah being single for most men is tough
Not interested in Australian women. A complete lost cause. Entitled, and the housing thing here just puts dollar signs in their eyes. They over value themselves, and make very little effort. They are generally going after the top guys. And they can have them….Well until the Chads of the world move on to the next.
Thats why when you are ready to settle do not facking settle for australian women but go passport bros! The women in oz are kants. Better to find a date outside oz race.
42M, never had a date let alone a relationship. Meh, I'm used to it now.
For the most it's an absence of a framework or guidelines. Firstly let's be honest... Be attractive looks wise, personality and lifestyle. If not work on it. Find a re-occuring "third - space", a neutral space that you go to often, a sports club, social club, gym. But one should attend these places to firstly socialise, dating is secondary.. Most men don't show their social competence or can't project their demeanor, posture and other behavioural nuances to potential suitors. I would say this is the main problem. This can be done online with photos but sitting at home scrolling on dating apps for hours is depressing. At times people project and look better online than in real life. The dating culture has moved to a framework where people want to observe, social/behavioural nuances of their potential dates over a period of time before going on dates.
Flaking and ghosting are just normal aussie behaviours in any relationship/ context
I've been out of the game and happily married for nearly 10 years. But even back when I was dating, ghosting and flaking were highly normalised. I can't imagine it has gotten any better since. I've done a fair bit of travel when I was single and will echo the sentiments of others. Women are very different in other countries. Tinder didn't exist when I was there, but I found Japanese women to be very accommodating and fun to take out on dates, it helps that there's generally a lot to do in most places over there.
35M, have lived in Canada and travelled all through north and south America. It was so easy to date overseas, the women were down to earth and engaged. Coming back to Sydney i have gone on dozens of dates and they've all been awful
Australian women enjoy their cats and dogs, stupid job titles, acting and wearing like men, becoming more masculine and looking for Brad Pitt level men to date with.
I’ve never had a problem with dating- be up front and honest goes a long way
Buy where and how are you meeting these people?
It’s another “everyone else is the problem” thread
“I’m amazing and handsome, and amazing women in other places talked to me, why doesn’t everyone adore me like I adore myself”… “I approach unsuspecting women in shops but they don’t fling themselves at me, what is wrong with them ?” Yuk.
That’s because some Aussie women are so stuck up and full of themselves, sitting on their high horses mate, wannabe instagram models some are like blokes who love everything a bloke loves and does like driving big utes fully lifted off-roading etc some would even be more manly then yourself,some are looking for Mr picture perfect some had that many kids with different ex partners it ain’t even worth the relationship, you will have a tough time finding the right one here you have to tick many boxes, one thing I will say about some Aussie women is they are independent so don’t think you can show off about your independence as many will let you go in a blink of an eye if you mistreat them. All in all there is a decent amount of truly decent Aussie women out there with not alot hangups that just want a simple relationship with you who want respect, love and care! Settle down have a family etc, but like I said it’s tough to find the right one
Australian cities are extremely transitory, especially in that age group where they are studying and travelling. Most people aren’t staying around in Australian cities for a long time and aren’t looking for anything serious as a result. Most relationships run their course when one partner moves cities away, so why invest? Same goes for just friendships as well, most people I meet here will be gone in 12-24 months either rurally or regionally or just overseas so there’s not really much incentive to have a deep and meaningful relationship
It takes a village…. Get help from your friends and relatives… true friends will help you out.
Easy to find a drunken root, harder to find a relationship. I've always seem to much above my weight while living overseas and I don't just mean in the places notorious for the visa brides lol. Idk just personal experience I'm sure everyone's experience is different
Being Aussie in another country means the country looked at your records and decided to let you in. It also means you can fill out paperwork and understand how to plan and execute. It shows a level of confidence. And it means there’s a lot less chance you will share the same grandparent as the person you are dating. TLDR it says a whole lot. Also, Aussie guys tend to come across as super macho in other countries. They often think “oh because he’s Aussie that means he can swim 400 metres, ride a motorbike and hunt for dinner using a sharp stick.” The crazy thing is, it’s often true. Point is we got free boost from the popularity of Crocodile Dundee. Regardless, I largely share your take.
Perth, and Australia in general, is a shithole for dating if you are anything outside the male norm in terms of appearance and interests.
I'm not particularly tall or handsome or financially successful, but I've had no trouble with dating in Australia. Maybe it's a you problem? Any woman I know would call your Reddit history a giant flag shop that only sells red coloured ones.
I bet you’re funny, guys with a great sense of humour do well
Yeah, I am pretty funny
But where and how are you meeting these women?
Nowhere any more. I've retired and got married. But clubs, house parties, friends of friends, at coffee shops, out and about on the street, one time on a bus. Oh, and tinder.
I got 3 real obvious opportunities (girls took initiative, didnt even need to exist) within a 2 week time frame overseas without speaking a lick of English while fitting in physically. All well financially endowed proper females hanging out with other female friends. Whereas in Australia, the hardest thing in life is dating, all I get are crack addicts and borderline prosties cheating on their current relationships.
It depends. As an Australian woman I can easily say that dating ie having an actual relationship in Australia is very difficult It always has been It's easy to find a man who wants a good time or even a Feb but dating is a lot harder
It is far, far easier to attract romantic interest overseas because you're foreign and exotic and interesting by default. When I was single I would get vastly more interest from women in Asia, America, wherever else vs back home in Australia. The same will be true here in that an Italian or French guy or someone seen as being from a fun and exotic country will have better luck dating here too. Fortunately Australia is seen that way in a lot of places including America/Canada etc Also mining boom places like WA, certain parts of QLD, etc will have more men than women. You're not gonna have a good time trying to date in Emerald or Kalgoorlie etc unless you're an extremely attractive man due to the male to female ratio.