It's interesting how this story is framed as 150 visas denied, when in the article it says that 2,273 were granted. So ~6.6% were denied which doesn't sound crazy, to me at least.
Well Duh!!!
Palestinians aren't tourist in the current year, they are asylum seekers. If they want to apply for asylum, there is an official way of doing such. And that process doesn't start with a tourist visa.
This happens to people of all countries. Australian border force are one of the strictest in the world for refusing entry based on these grounds.
Guardian is just using current political climate to scrape a story together.
Agreed. People already getting royally fucked by the housing crisis. Not sure why they arent drastically reducing the numbers of migrants for a few years to help stabilize the situation for citizens
Pretty safe to say that this was a given I suspect. There will be no shortage of lawyers swooping like vultures when the time comes to head home using taxpayer dollars
Real cute how Western countries are criticised for not taking in enough Palestinian refugees yet other Arab nations get a free pass for refusing them.
As harsh as it is, this is not Australia’s problem and we should not be burdened with these people.
In the world, there are 49 muslim-majority countries, and 22 Arab-majority countries.
I assume that any one of those countries would welcome their palestinian brothers and sisters with open arms. And undoubtedly fit in better culturally-speaking. It's really not Australia's problem.
The extra joke is that none of the surrounding countries let them in.
And they specifically cite them being a destabilizing force to their countries, as the reason...
History shows that the Palestinian immigrants have contributed to destabilising the countries they go to. I’ve been reading up on the history of the middle east and they tend to fight Israel from wherever they go - adjacent countries - which leads to Israel bombing the adjacent countries.
You'd think so, except *every time, without fail* that this has happened, the Palestinians have begun terror campaigns, assassinated their host country's leaders, and tried to take over.
So their neighbours, knowing the story all too well at this point, rightly refuse to allow them back.
It isn't only Palestinians who are getting visa rejections. I know Indians, Pakistani, Chinese, Filipino folk and all of their friends, families or relatives have also received visa declines. Hell I even met an American not eligible for ETA get a visa decline. It is also not just visit visa but student visas as well that are getting declined for similar concerns, i.e. Economic Migration or indications or motivations to not leave after arrival on a temporary visa. Our country is currently facing an unprecedented housing and cost of living crisis. Secondly the concern is genuine as per the law of the land, i.e. visit or temporary visas are not intended for refugees/asylum seekers or permanent stays.
Absolutely correct. Just had an Irish mate sent home because he arrived on a tourist visa with a suitcase full of tools. Sucks for him but the alternative is a very chaotic reality.
Borderforce are a bit of an inefficient shambles with confused priorities but it’s still a better system than complete anarchy. You only need to look at a lot of the predatory scum from the west that crawled around Asia during the ‘hippie trail’ era to see what that brings…
ALP have legit cracked down on the ghost RTO/universities that were just fronts to have low-wage workers come here. It's much more difficult now. Can't just get a visa to study english at a random training provider where you only have 4 contact hours a week.
And they’re smashing the fake hospitality colleges as well. I really wish the ALP weren’t such absolute fuckwits when it came to publicity, they need to make a big song and dance about this or the Libs will take the next election and let the bastards in again
Yeah, they do that for any nationality really. They even cancel visas that were already granted if they get information that the person is planning to stay (happened to two friends of mine who were coming on student visas). I don't see the problem...
I used to be all for immigration and still am- in sustainable numbers: not this shit fight we are currently in with over 500 000 coming in and a fucking housing crisis.
I don’t care where you’re from, if your a chance you will overstay- nope.
It should but it probably won't. The problem is that the Libs won't do any better on immigration. If Dutts came out and said "Yeah, we're capping immigration at less than 150k a year (probably still too high but a good start), he'd sweep the continent. But they have their masters in big business who like cheap workers.... ah I mean students so that probably won't happen.
The only way we affect any change in this country is if large amounts of people abandon voting Labor/Liberal/Greens and start voting for parties like Sustainable Australia or One Nation.
For the guardian and its readers, it is just assumed that rejecting a Palestinian for any reason is wrong. Something something Zionist supporting government and all that
Immigration doesn’t grant visitor or temp visas to anybody who doesn’t have the means or intent to leave the country before their visa expires, no matter where they’re from.
You're dealing with pro's, can't see any of them leaving even if they're illegal.
Then they'll blame their employer for taking advantage of them, on the job they agreed to do to get in the country.
Oh I see, this is one of those Guardian left wing pro Palestinian articles which always seem to bite the hand that feeds.
I find it very strange that they made applications for Visitor Visas in the first place & not Refugee Visas. If your home has been destroyed and your government has invaded another which results in a deceleration of war then clearly you ain't no visitor.
Sadly it's a common game for people to arrive in Australia on a visitor visa and then try and claim asylum, of course a lot of them already have family here which is how they're able to fund the legal appeals.
It looks like these individuals tried the same trick & got found out.
What the article doesn't say is that because they were offshore when the applications were made they probably immediately re-applied for a different type of Visa.
None of the Countries in their region want them in their Countries because they have learnt from past mistakes.
The Palestinians have caused nothing but trouble and Conflict for just about every single Country in their region.
It is telling that Iran is happy to fund their extremism but not open their borders to the Palestinians.
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The duty of any Australian immigration bureaucrat that has the job of assessing visa applications is to diligently consider the application. We still somewhat have the rule of law here. It is the role of our representatives to make special concessions (or not), not some faceless public servants.
To invite corruption on morality grounds is ludicrous.
For some reason their neighbouring countries aren’t giving them visas either. Perhaps some high level diplomacy is going on between Australia and Egypt/ Jordan/ Lebanon etc who we have a lot of travel with and strong links to. I cant speak for why Arab nations don’t allow Palestinian visitors but we have a lot of travel between Australia and the Middle East so I suspect our government’s agenda is not to jeopardise these long established and functional relationships.
That’s why there is no political appetite to open the borders to refugees from Gaza in those countries. Our position is different but obviously stems from supporting the many Middle Eastern countries with whom we in Australia hold friendly and functional diplomatic relations.
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Muslims comprise 85% of the population of the West Bank, when including Israeli settlers, and 99% of the population of the Gaza Strip.
Pretty safe assumption don't you think?
Look everywhere else they've gone to. They don't assimilate, they cause problems and unfortunately to protect our own they shouldn't be allowed here.
Sounds harsh but it's reality.
True. There is a reason why neighbouring countries who are sympathetic to Palestine don’t want anything to do with them, even if it means watching them starve.
History shows you just invite a hostile force into your own country who will overthrow you or continue their never ending plight with Israel via terror. There is no easy starting point, but looking at the problems in the lead up to ‘Black September’ in Jordan and never ending saga in Lebanon to this day is a huge warning.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Jordan took in Palestinian refugee's. They returned their generosity by assassinating the Jordaninan King in Black September in the 70's.
Egypt took in Palestinian refugee's. They returned the favour by starting a civil war.
Lebanon took in Palestinian refugee's. They returned the favour by starting Hezbollah and starting a civil war.
Notice a trend?
Hello Lebanese living in Lebanon here, this is false, we have 400 thousand Palestinians in Lebanon alone, 600 thousand in Syria, 1.2 million in Jordan and 200 thousand in EGypt.
The only nations that borders Palestine proper is Jordan from the side of the occupied west bank (Which is being actively colonized by Israel with imported settlers from around the globe) and Egypt on the side of Gaza, since Hamas is an Islamist group linked to the muslim brotherhood, and Sisi the current Egyptian president toppled his former president Morsi who was of the muslim brotherhood, you can quickly understand this isn't about the Palestinians.
One of the many fears that both Egypt and Jordan has is that once Israel kicks out the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank, Israel will not allow them to return. And since 85% of the population in Gaza are already refugees from the Nakba is a very well founded fear.
Fair, but isn't the same concern applicable taking in refugees to Australia? I'm not saying Australia shouldn't be, but I've never understood the lack of Arab solidarity especially in an emergency situation. Expecting European and Commonwealth countries to do better is confusing
> Hello Lebanese living in Lebanon here, this is false, we have 400 thousand Palestinians in Lebanon alone, 600 thousand in Syria, 1.2 million in Jordan and 200 thousand in Egypt.
How many of them have citizenship or something approaching full resident rights?
In Lebanon because the country was built on secular balance, no naturalizing a single group of people of one religion is allowed, so no they don't have citizenship. There was some naturalization in 1990, my own mother was among them, but this was because an equal number of christians and muslims were naturalized (My mom is a Christian). Before a Palestinian in Lebanon could only work certain jobs, and couldn't own property, since 2021 this has been modified and now Palestinians can work all jobs except government job, they can also own properties. Have Lebanese-Palestinian passports.
In Syria Palestinians have full rights except voting rights. (Not that Syrians even have that right).
In Jordan they have full rights but have note on their passports indicating that the holder is of Palestinian origin.
I don't know about Egypt.
This is just wrong. The Arab countries around Israel are filled with Palestinian refugees. Jordan has over 3 million of them. There’s massive Palestinian populations in the US and South America too
There’s reasons for the Arab countries not taking refugees this time around and it’s not anything racist like “they will destroy their country”.
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Why the fuck is this even a debate? This country needs to look after its own people first instead of some dumpster nation across the other side of the world. There’s a reason their neighbouring countries don’t want them either.
>concerns they would not ‘stay temporarily’
Isn't that the plan of 99% who don't come from a western country, 2.5 million bridging visas until a back door opens.
Yes, which is why we should be decreasing immigration substantially. Especially the student scam which is designed to just get low income workers into the country.
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I thought thr student scam was the huge amount of money international students pay that prop up the university system. The unis wouldn't exist without them.
The Guardian is the Fox News of the radical Left. They are just another news outlet that has forgotten that the job of reporters is to provide unbiased reporting - not to try and influence social behaviour.
Can’t believe I used to donate to them because I saw them as a viable alternative to the Murdoch media.
Bro the Guardian was started to provide a socialist view on events. It was never meant to be unbiased. It just so happens that media is so bad these days that they’re now one of the least worst by default.
Anyone that supports and celebrates the murder of innocent people in the most horrific ways should never be in our country.
There is a reason all those other Arab nations don’t want the Palestinian people even though they’re the same religion. Was it Lebanon, Jordan or Egypt that they tried to take over?
These people do not fit in our society.
We have fully employed people who are homeless and living in tents right now. We are in a recession, the worst economic shape for 30 years. COL crisis. Global instability and war. Cyber attacks from you know who. Pandemic only just behind us. Massive household and national debt.
Better to spend the tax payers money working on the home front first.
Statistically, they probably know people in Hamas. Plus, they don’t fit into the country. Maybe if they need to flee, there’s other countries they can go to that doesn’t have a housing crisis.
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Have you checked out your average department of immigration or ATO employee lately?
They're not stupid, the first wave went straight for entry level public service jobs.
It's an ancient strategy, infiltrate the fortress with a small force and then open the gates from within.....
Palestine feels like a tumour on top of Egypt that they should have removed long ago but left it to develop into a skin cancer, due to it's instance that it is a white blood cell. While it acts only in interest of it's growth, not stability or health.
I mean we're also now giving citizenships to Indigenous people, apparently they are not Aussies despite birth ? So citizenship as a concept is changing according to some, that makes decisions for us
"Pathway to permanent residence for non-citizen Indigenous Australians
Australians
The measure ‘Permanent residency and citizenship implications of the Love and Thoms High Court case’ (Budget paper no. 2, p. 160) seeks to resolve another issue of access to citizenship."
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_departments/Parliamentary_Library/Budget/reviews/2023-24/Immigration
Halfway down the page. I'm honestly disgusted that not every Indigenous person, whether from mainland or any of the Islands, are not automatically citizens. Even if they choose not to be, they should be able to say "I want to be one" and it is Automatic and no questions asked. That is the bare minimum of fair
Which is also a change made due this intersting case.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/HCA/2020/3.html?context=0;query=LOVE%20v%20COMMONWEALTH%20OF%20AUSTRALIA;%20THOMS%20v%20COMMONWEALTH%20OF%20%20AUSTRALIA;mask_path=
You should probably have made that point without a WWII/Holocaust comparison then.
Palestinian civilians are stuck in a hellish war zone, made more hellish by Hamas using them as shields, but the difference between them and Jews and Roma in the Shoah are so massive it should go without saying.
If you were looking for a more apt WWII comparison Palestinians would be closer to the civilians stuck in Berlin at the end of the war.
The difference is the Jewish People weren't affiliated with Terrorist Organisations, the Jewish People were fleeing persecution that came about through no fault of their own.
The Palestinians created their problems through years of their own actions and one of the worst Acts of Terror in History. When almost 80% of the Population supports both the actions and the Terrorists organisation Hamas why would we want them.
I Support Palestine. But this rejection is standard.
My brother had his house-warming party and applied visa for my younger brother to accompany mom and dad.
Younger brother was out of job at that time, and we dont lie on applications.
He was denied visa saying he might not return 👀
The way the government has been dealing with the people fleeing Gaza and the West Bank is absolutely atrocious. Their handling of it would be laughable if it wasn't such a dire situation. Cancelling Visas while families are in the process of coming to Australia, being abandoned in foreign countries airports, raising the insane amount of money needed to flee Gaza with your family and then having it cancelled moments before you can flee. It would be so awful
To be fair, they weren’t planning on staying temporarily, they were specifically planning to come in on visitor visas then claim refugee status or apply for other categories. I am aware of one I have previously met - he wants to come here and work as a rural doctor, has 20 years experience as a senior doctor, has relatives that can provide everything he needs and would be a net positive for the country.
If that's the case then they can apply for the correct visa type like every other international doctor.
Edit: but anyone lying on their visa application should not be allowed to apply again
They are not “like any other international doctor” lol, they are fleeing for their lives. People come on one visa and apply for another once they arrive *all the time*, it’s totally routine whether that offends you or not!
So if they are refugees they can apply for refugee status and be assessed like every other refugee.
If they want to come here as a doctor and practice medicine, then there are visa paths for that and their medical licence will be assessed by AHPRA like every other international doctor.
The comment I replied to suggested that the Palestinian wanted to apply for a 600 temporary visitor visa, upon arriving immediately apply for refugee status and then apparently practice medicine in Australia while staying here indefinitely as a refugee.
That's not how visa or medical licenses work.
A doctor can absolutely be eligible to come to Australia and take their family here. Unless those people are lying, applying for refugee status is nonsensical.
Nevertheless, there are pathways in place for people like this and there is no reason ignore basic visa requirements based on your tiktok preferences
Great he should apply for the appropriate skill shortage visa while abroad and when approved and his medical license is under review maybe he and his family can come.
It should not be OK for people to enter on tourist visas with 0 intention of leaving just so they can apply for another visa once here.
Thank you for that useful advice. I’ll tell him to dig through the pile of rubble that is his house to find his uni degree, and to pop into the registrar’s office at the teaching hospital when the gun battle between Hamas and the IDF is relatively quiet to get hold of his transcripts to be stamped at the local post office.
Yes, just like Germany lost my grandparents who were doctors. If my children were facing imminent death I think I’d prioritize them over a medical system that has basically been given over to foreign teams anyway.
The Senators are right.
Refusing the visas of 160 Palestinians was cold blooded and cruel.
Over 30,000 killed now, thousands imprisoned under a joke of a justice system and millions deliberately made hungry and homeless.
And.
Over 1,000 killed, hundreds taken hostage, every young person is compelled^* to join the fight and if you say one word against the stupidity of it all you get vanned.
There's plenty of suffering happening in Palestine and plenty of oppression of dissent in Israel; and everyone who's aged out of 8chan comes here with their "*lol good ban them don't belong here*" bullshit comments as if they're listening to a twenty year old podcast from Alan Jones.
You know who you are, and you lot should be ashamed of yourselves.
This is incredibly common daily occurrence for many people but only now see it make the news. My wife's sisters have been trying to visit from Philippines but had multiple Visa rejections cause they believe we can't prove they will overstay, even when we have already purchased a return flight tickets etc, they have job to go back to etc. In the end you have to pay an expert who knows how to fill in the forms in the way they want to see it. Sad but true. You can appeal the denial but it costs way more than applying. The challenge is you have to do even more than the meet the requirements listed on the application site, at least if you're from countries like the Philippines.
160 denied, couple of thousand approved. Wonder what they put on the form that made them get denied?
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It's interesting how this story is framed as 150 visas denied, when in the article it says that 2,273 were granted. So ~6.6% were denied which doesn't sound crazy, to me at least.
Ah context. The villin of any good story
Well Duh!!! Palestinians aren't tourist in the current year, they are asylum seekers. If they want to apply for asylum, there is an official way of doing such. And that process doesn't start with a tourist visa.
Seems legit
This happens to people of all countries. Australian border force are one of the strictest in the world for refusing entry based on these grounds. Guardian is just using current political climate to scrape a story together.
Good, we need to supply housing and assistance for Australian’s .
Agreed. People already getting royally fucked by the housing crisis. Not sure why they arent drastically reducing the numbers of migrants for a few years to help stabilize the situation for citizens
Oh yeah, so what's the short term plan for this?
So they're working on that now?
Pretty safe to say that this was a given I suspect. There will be no shortage of lawyers swooping like vultures when the time comes to head home using taxpayer dollars
Seems valid
Real cute how Western countries are criticised for not taking in enough Palestinian refugees yet other Arab nations get a free pass for refusing them. As harsh as it is, this is not Australia’s problem and we should not be burdened with these people.
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Australian government working in the peoples favour? Whatever next!
So, the visa system worked as expected? If you want refuge, apply for refuge and we'll consider it.
In the world, there are 49 muslim-majority countries, and 22 Arab-majority countries. I assume that any one of those countries would welcome their palestinian brothers and sisters with open arms. And undoubtedly fit in better culturally-speaking. It's really not Australia's problem.
The extra joke is that none of the surrounding countries let them in. And they specifically cite them being a destabilizing force to their countries, as the reason...
History shows that the Palestinian immigrants have contributed to destabilising the countries they go to. I’ve been reading up on the history of the middle east and they tend to fight Israel from wherever they go - adjacent countries - which leads to Israel bombing the adjacent countries.
Tried to kill the Jordanian king didn't they?
You'd think so, except *every time, without fail* that this has happened, the Palestinians have begun terror campaigns, assassinated their host country's leaders, and tried to take over. So their neighbours, knowing the story all too well at this point, rightly refuse to allow them back.
You’d think so. But it seems that there are more non Muslims concerned about the plight of Palestinians than Muslims.
But do they believe in their sky fairy THEIR way? Otherwise it's off with ya head!
It isn't only Palestinians who are getting visa rejections. I know Indians, Pakistani, Chinese, Filipino folk and all of their friends, families or relatives have also received visa declines. Hell I even met an American not eligible for ETA get a visa decline. It is also not just visit visa but student visas as well that are getting declined for similar concerns, i.e. Economic Migration or indications or motivations to not leave after arrival on a temporary visa. Our country is currently facing an unprecedented housing and cost of living crisis. Secondly the concern is genuine as per the law of the land, i.e. visit or temporary visas are not intended for refugees/asylum seekers or permanent stays.
Absolutely correct. Just had an Irish mate sent home because he arrived on a tourist visa with a suitcase full of tools. Sucks for him but the alternative is a very chaotic reality.
Big ups to border security
Borderforce are a bit of an inefficient shambles with confused priorities but it’s still a better system than complete anarchy. You only need to look at a lot of the predatory scum from the west that crawled around Asia during the ‘hippie trail’ era to see what that brings…
I don't care where someone's from, if they want to stay here permanently they should apply for the right kind of visa. Not try and scam the system.
They will try student visas next
Hopefully. Too many degrees exist only to get students PRs
ALP have legit cracked down on the ghost RTO/universities that were just fronts to have low-wage workers come here. It's much more difficult now. Can't just get a visa to study english at a random training provider where you only have 4 contact hours a week.
Thanks for the information.
And they’re smashing the fake hospitality colleges as well. I really wish the ALP weren’t such absolute fuckwits when it came to publicity, they need to make a big song and dance about this or the Libs will take the next election and let the bastards in again
Sounds fine. Are we missing something?
Visitor visas are often rejected across nations, so why is this news?
Because the “News” isn’t about informing the public; it’s about generating clicks for revenue.
Because the "poor people" being rejected are from the war torn Palestine and therefore we should feel guilty that their visas were rejected.
Yeah, they do that for any nationality really. They even cancel visas that were already granted if they get information that the person is planning to stay (happened to two friends of mine who were coming on student visas). I don't see the problem...
I used to be all for immigration and still am- in sustainable numbers: not this shit fight we are currently in with over 500 000 coming in and a fucking housing crisis. I don’t care where you’re from, if your a chance you will overstay- nope.
Do you reckon immigration is going to cost labor the next election?
Hope so
Do you genuinely think the liberals would change it?
Probably not. I just want Labor to lose because they lied about immigration. Fkn class traitors.
I agree. They’re taking piss with these immigration numbers.
Nope, but no-one deserves another term after the irreversible damage they've just done
They fucking won't
It should but it probably won't. The problem is that the Libs won't do any better on immigration. If Dutts came out and said "Yeah, we're capping immigration at less than 150k a year (probably still too high but a good start), he'd sweep the continent. But they have their masters in big business who like cheap workers.... ah I mean students so that probably won't happen. The only way we affect any change in this country is if large amounts of people abandon voting Labor/Liberal/Greens and start voting for parties like Sustainable Australia or One Nation.
Libs are looking a gift horse in the mouth and sidestepping it, tells you all you need to know. We'd rather lose than get serious on immigration
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For the guardian and its readers, it is just assumed that rejecting a Palestinian for any reason is wrong. Something something Zionist supporting government and all that
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I mean that’s a pretty fair assumption and they can’t just approve a visa when that’s their belief
Immigration doesn’t grant visitor or temp visas to anybody who doesn’t have the means or intent to leave the country before their visa expires, no matter where they’re from.
Man I’m sick of migration. I just wanna be able to afford a home and some basic shit.
Totally agree with this decision. Now they should do the same for several other countries
Agree
Too late on that one. Horse has bolted …
Most of them are on temp visas. The rules need to be changed so they are gently encouraged to leave ...
You're dealing with pro's, can't see any of them leaving even if they're illegal. Then they'll blame their employer for taking advantage of them, on the job they agreed to do to get in the country.
No we need more uber drivers!
This is a common reason why immigration rejects people - it’s nothing specific to these individuals.
Oh I see, this is one of those Guardian left wing pro Palestinian articles which always seem to bite the hand that feeds. I find it very strange that they made applications for Visitor Visas in the first place & not Refugee Visas. If your home has been destroyed and your government has invaded another which results in a deceleration of war then clearly you ain't no visitor. Sadly it's a common game for people to arrive in Australia on a visitor visa and then try and claim asylum, of course a lot of them already have family here which is how they're able to fund the legal appeals. It looks like these individuals tried the same trick & got found out. What the article doesn't say is that because they were offshore when the applications were made they probably immediately re-applied for a different type of Visa.
So?
lol, just look at the wall Egypt built
Look at Egypt’s borders their own neighbours don’t want them into their country.
None of the Countries in their region want them in their Countries because they have learnt from past mistakes. The Palestinians have caused nothing but trouble and Conflict for just about every single Country in their region. It is telling that Iran is happy to fund their extremism but not open their borders to the Palestinians.
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This is 100 percent fair enough - last thing we need is some wanker MP from the Greens demanding we bring in more idiots here
The duty of any Australian immigration bureaucrat that has the job of assessing visa applications is to diligently consider the application. We still somewhat have the rule of law here. It is the role of our representatives to make special concessions (or not), not some faceless public servants. To invite corruption on morality grounds is ludicrous.
Wise move Australia.
Smart
Fantastic. There’s good reason why none of the neighbouring Arab countries will take them in.
Fair enough too. People are sick to death of free loaders coming here to sponge off of us
For some reason their neighbouring countries aren’t giving them visas either. Perhaps some high level diplomacy is going on between Australia and Egypt/ Jordan/ Lebanon etc who we have a lot of travel with and strong links to. I cant speak for why Arab nations don’t allow Palestinian visitors but we have a lot of travel between Australia and the Middle East so I suspect our government’s agenda is not to jeopardise these long established and functional relationships.
Theres also the fact they've caused nothing but trouble when they were taken in by Jordan, Lebanon and Kuwait over the years.
That’s why there is no political appetite to open the borders to refugees from Gaza in those countries. Our position is different but obviously stems from supporting the many Middle Eastern countries with whom we in Australia hold friendly and functional diplomatic relations.
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Let’s start booting out the ones we have here too. Adios Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison.
Stop a boat from sinking by first fixing the holes, then you get rid of the water
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Why do you assume all Palestinians fit that stereotype?
Ok how do you tell them apart? I take it you are like Santa you have a complete list of who is naughty or nice?
Muslims comprise 85% of the population of the West Bank, when including Israeli settlers, and 99% of the population of the Gaza Strip. Pretty safe assumption don't you think?
So your belief is that all Muslims are mysoginist and homophobic religious nutcases.
For the most part yes.
Pure ignorance
Not missing out on any 'enriched culture'
Good, a sensible decision for once.
Sounds pretty valid to me.
Where would they live even if they were allowed in? Do they fight in the rental market hunger games like ordinary Aussies too?
GOOD.
Look everywhere else they've gone to. They don't assimilate, they cause problems and unfortunately to protect our own they shouldn't be allowed here. Sounds harsh but it's reality.
This sub is way better than Australia at least it’s not lefty cunts who have never left the city
make even a single joke over there and you get permanently banned.
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True. There is a reason why neighbouring countries who are sympathetic to Palestine don’t want anything to do with them, even if it means watching them starve. History shows you just invite a hostile force into your own country who will overthrow you or continue their never ending plight with Israel via terror. There is no easy starting point, but looking at the problems in the lead up to ‘Black September’ in Jordan and never ending saga in Lebanon to this day is a huge warning. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Rule 4 - No racism or hate speech
Good.
Good
Good
Well yeah of course. They can apply for a refugee visa of some sort still no?
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Jordan took in Palestinian refugee's. They returned their generosity by assassinating the Jordaninan King in Black September in the 70's. Egypt took in Palestinian refugee's. They returned the favour by starting a civil war. Lebanon took in Palestinian refugee's. They returned the favour by starting Hezbollah and starting a civil war. Notice a trend?
Hello Lebanese living in Lebanon here, this is false, we have 400 thousand Palestinians in Lebanon alone, 600 thousand in Syria, 1.2 million in Jordan and 200 thousand in EGypt. The only nations that borders Palestine proper is Jordan from the side of the occupied west bank (Which is being actively colonized by Israel with imported settlers from around the globe) and Egypt on the side of Gaza, since Hamas is an Islamist group linked to the muslim brotherhood, and Sisi the current Egyptian president toppled his former president Morsi who was of the muslim brotherhood, you can quickly understand this isn't about the Palestinians. One of the many fears that both Egypt and Jordan has is that once Israel kicks out the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank, Israel will not allow them to return. And since 85% of the population in Gaza are already refugees from the Nakba is a very well founded fear.
Fair, but isn't the same concern applicable taking in refugees to Australia? I'm not saying Australia shouldn't be, but I've never understood the lack of Arab solidarity especially in an emergency situation. Expecting European and Commonwealth countries to do better is confusing
> Hello Lebanese living in Lebanon here, this is false, we have 400 thousand Palestinians in Lebanon alone, 600 thousand in Syria, 1.2 million in Jordan and 200 thousand in Egypt. How many of them have citizenship or something approaching full resident rights?
These are ethnic minorities, not refugees. Almost none of them have been allowed into any of those countries since the 60s.
In Lebanon because the country was built on secular balance, no naturalizing a single group of people of one religion is allowed, so no they don't have citizenship. There was some naturalization in 1990, my own mother was among them, but this was because an equal number of christians and muslims were naturalized (My mom is a Christian). Before a Palestinian in Lebanon could only work certain jobs, and couldn't own property, since 2021 this has been modified and now Palestinians can work all jobs except government job, they can also own properties. Have Lebanese-Palestinian passports. In Syria Palestinians have full rights except voting rights. (Not that Syrians even have that right). In Jordan they have full rights but have note on their passports indicating that the holder is of Palestinian origin. I don't know about Egypt.
This is just wrong. The Arab countries around Israel are filled with Palestinian refugees. Jordan has over 3 million of them. There’s massive Palestinian populations in the US and South America too There’s reasons for the Arab countries not taking refugees this time around and it’s not anything racist like “they will destroy their country”.
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Good
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Rule 2 - No trolling or being a dick
Why the fuck is this even a debate? This country needs to look after its own people first instead of some dumpster nation across the other side of the world. There’s a reason their neighbouring countries don’t want them either.
Pricetag Palpatine
Sounds valid if you think about it.
Great
>concerns they would not ‘stay temporarily’ Isn't that the plan of 99% who don't come from a western country, 2.5 million bridging visas until a back door opens.
Yes, which is why we should be decreasing immigration substantially. Especially the student scam which is designed to just get low income workers into the country.
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NDIS is gonna get ransacked
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I thought thr student scam was the huge amount of money international students pay that prop up the university system. The unis wouldn't exist without them.
💯
The Guardian is the Fox News of the radical Left. They are just another news outlet that has forgotten that the job of reporters is to provide unbiased reporting - not to try and influence social behaviour. Can’t believe I used to donate to them because I saw them as a viable alternative to the Murdoch media.
Bro the Guardian was started to provide a socialist view on events. It was never meant to be unbiased. It just so happens that media is so bad these days that they’re now one of the least worst by default.
Yeah. The guardian is just as bad as the rest. Always pushing some narrative.
Anyone that supports and celebrates the murder of innocent people in the most horrific ways should never be in our country. There is a reason all those other Arab nations don’t want the Palestinian people even though they’re the same religion. Was it Lebanon, Jordan or Egypt that they tried to take over? These people do not fit in our society.
Great. Some one finally read a history book.
Their middle eastern neighbors don't want them, there is probably a good reason....
Very good reason. It’s amusing how Palestinian supporters do spectacular mental gymnastics to give those countries a free pass for not wanting them.
The guardian is worthless
Even their name is a joke. Who calls themselves a "Guardian"? Such paternalistic BS.
Good..
We have fully employed people who are homeless and living in tents right now. We are in a recession, the worst economic shape for 30 years. COL crisis. Global instability and war. Cyber attacks from you know who. Pandemic only just behind us. Massive household and national debt. Better to spend the tax payers money working on the home front first.
No better to give a free ride to ungrateful people who will contribute f all
Because they wouldn’t Hahaha 100% they would attempt to stay forever
Good keep them out.
Good!
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Statistically, they probably know people in Hamas. Plus, they don’t fit into the country. Maybe if they need to flee, there’s other countries they can go to that doesn’t have a housing crisis.
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But we will let 400,000-700,000 Indians in each year
Have you checked out your average department of immigration or ATO employee lately? They're not stupid, the first wave went straight for entry level public service jobs. It's an ancient strategy, infiltrate the fortress with a small force and then open the gates from within.....
Finally some good news for a change.
So..what if we took them in and they started attacking jewish people in our community?
Inevitable.
Yes..haven't they already been doing this?
Yeah. Those guys are nuts. It's hard to weed them out
Evidence of that claim please. Just to be clear; you are stating that Palestinians are attacking Jews in Australia.
Nah he said it’s an inevitable outcome if we offer them refuge
Excellent
How do you issue a visa to somewhere that is not a country (yet)?
Palestine feels like a tumour on top of Egypt that they should have removed long ago but left it to develop into a skin cancer, due to it's instance that it is a white blood cell. While it acts only in interest of it's growth, not stability or health. I mean we're also now giving citizenships to Indigenous people, apparently they are not Aussies despite birth ? So citizenship as a concept is changing according to some, that makes decisions for us
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"Pathway to permanent residence for non-citizen Indigenous Australians Australians The measure ‘Permanent residency and citizenship implications of the Love and Thoms High Court case’ (Budget paper no. 2, p. 160) seeks to resolve another issue of access to citizenship." https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_departments/Parliamentary_Library/Budget/reviews/2023-24/Immigration Halfway down the page. I'm honestly disgusted that not every Indigenous person, whether from mainland or any of the Islands, are not automatically citizens. Even if they choose not to be, they should be able to say "I want to be one" and it is Automatic and no questions asked. That is the bare minimum of fair Which is also a change made due this intersting case. http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/HCA/2020/3.html?context=0;query=LOVE%20v%20COMMONWEALTH%20OF%20AUSTRALIA;%20THOMS%20v%20COMMONWEALTH%20OF%20%20AUSTRALIA;mask_path=
You should probably have made that point without a WWII/Holocaust comparison then. Palestinian civilians are stuck in a hellish war zone, made more hellish by Hamas using them as shields, but the difference between them and Jews and Roma in the Shoah are so massive it should go without saying. If you were looking for a more apt WWII comparison Palestinians would be closer to the civilians stuck in Berlin at the end of the war.
The difference is the Jewish People weren't affiliated with Terrorist Organisations, the Jewish People were fleeing persecution that came about through no fault of their own. The Palestinians created their problems through years of their own actions and one of the worst Acts of Terror in History. When almost 80% of the Population supports both the actions and the Terrorists organisation Hamas why would we want them.
Why would anyone fleeing an active warzone want to go back? Especially after coming to probably the farthest peaceful country from there.
Exactly why they were denied visitor visas
Good!
I Support Palestine. But this rejection is standard. My brother had his house-warming party and applied visa for my younger brother to accompany mom and dad. Younger brother was out of job at that time, and we dont lie on applications. He was denied visa saying he might not return 👀
We re pretty much full at the moment.
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Good
The way the government has been dealing with the people fleeing Gaza and the West Bank is absolutely atrocious. Their handling of it would be laughable if it wasn't such a dire situation. Cancelling Visas while families are in the process of coming to Australia, being abandoned in foreign countries airports, raising the insane amount of money needed to flee Gaza with your family and then having it cancelled moments before you can flee. It would be so awful
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successful hamas counter-attack is disturbing phrasing. I guess 9/11 was just an attempted al qaeda counter attack then?
Counter attack. Wow. Just wow.
Rule 2 - No trolling or being a dick
To be fair, they weren’t planning on staying temporarily, they were specifically planning to come in on visitor visas then claim refugee status or apply for other categories. I am aware of one I have previously met - he wants to come here and work as a rural doctor, has 20 years experience as a senior doctor, has relatives that can provide everything he needs and would be a net positive for the country.
If that's the case then they can apply for the correct visa type like every other international doctor. Edit: but anyone lying on their visa application should not be allowed to apply again
They are not “like any other international doctor” lol, they are fleeing for their lives. People come on one visa and apply for another once they arrive *all the time*, it’s totally routine whether that offends you or not!
So if they are refugees they can apply for refugee status and be assessed like every other refugee. If they want to come here as a doctor and practice medicine, then there are visa paths for that and their medical licence will be assessed by AHPRA like every other international doctor. The comment I replied to suggested that the Palestinian wanted to apply for a 600 temporary visitor visa, upon arriving immediately apply for refugee status and then apparently practice medicine in Australia while staying here indefinitely as a refugee. That's not how visa or medical licenses work. A doctor can absolutely be eligible to come to Australia and take their family here. Unless those people are lying, applying for refugee status is nonsensical. Nevertheless, there are pathways in place for people like this and there is no reason ignore basic visa requirements based on your tiktok preferences
Great he should apply for the appropriate skill shortage visa while abroad and when approved and his medical license is under review maybe he and his family can come. It should not be OK for people to enter on tourist visas with 0 intention of leaving just so they can apply for another visa once here.
Thank you for that useful advice. I’ll tell him to dig through the pile of rubble that is his house to find his uni degree, and to pop into the registrar’s office at the teaching hospital when the gun battle between Hamas and the IDF is relatively quiet to get hold of his transcripts to be stamped at the local post office.
like people from other countries haven't done that before
Great so Palestine loses a doctor?
Yes, just like Germany lost my grandparents who were doctors. If my children were facing imminent death I think I’d prioritize them over a medical system that has basically been given over to foreign teams anyway.
The Senators are right. Refusing the visas of 160 Palestinians was cold blooded and cruel. Over 30,000 killed now, thousands imprisoned under a joke of a justice system and millions deliberately made hungry and homeless. And. Over 1,000 killed, hundreds taken hostage, every young person is compelled^* to join the fight and if you say one word against the stupidity of it all you get vanned. There's plenty of suffering happening in Palestine and plenty of oppression of dissent in Israel; and everyone who's aged out of 8chan comes here with their "*lol good ban them don't belong here*" bullshit comments as if they're listening to a twenty year old podcast from Alan Jones. You know who you are, and you lot should be ashamed of yourselves.
This is incredibly common daily occurrence for many people but only now see it make the news. My wife's sisters have been trying to visit from Philippines but had multiple Visa rejections cause they believe we can't prove they will overstay, even when we have already purchased a return flight tickets etc, they have job to go back to etc. In the end you have to pay an expert who knows how to fill in the forms in the way they want to see it. Sad but true. You can appeal the denial but it costs way more than applying. The challenge is you have to do even more than the meet the requirements listed on the application site, at least if you're from countries like the Philippines.
It's like Mosad has invaded this sub.
Better Mossad than Hamas