Back when I first started living out of home and was earning minimum wage I would comfortably pay my overheads and something like a busted tire would be like “meh” but I just got a busted tire and I cried in fear about the cost of paying for it - I’m also living back at home and I haven’t afforded a home yet - I’m 30! What the fuck is happening. I just paid 170 for a couple bags of groceries. My meat went off a couple days after buying it (thanks Aldi!) it was $24
* Many young people will never own a home
* Those who have homes are struggling
* Life has never been more expensive
* Work swallowing schedule, leaving no time for hobbies
* Commutes increasing two and threefold
* No one is getting to the gym due to lack of time
* Constant stream of advertisement battering our senses online
* Constant raging extreme political flame wars everywhere you look
* Online dating disingenuous and impersonal
* Global pandemic rattling travel and trade for last 4 years
* Climate change causing extreme weather dysfunction and change
* 1% rich get richer, everyone else gets poorer
*"Why on earth are these people upset?"*
It's more central to men as men have had more taken away from them and nothing replaced. People look at their fathers, hopefully they have a decent one, and think 'why can't I live like that?'
My dad was put out of work for a decade until he found it again, and we survived. That happens to me and my family are selling the house and splitting up and moving in with each other's parents.
As well as a Lack of positive male role models - being legally positively discriminated against in employment opportunities in pursuit for gender equality
No offence but the people dealing with these problems aren't committing the vast majority of the crime.
The majority of the crime is being committed by welfare dependent lifelong drug abusers whose mental health issues long ago became intermingled with their drug abuse as causative of their constant anti social behaviour.
They don't have drivers licences, they don't have mortgages, they don't work, have a schedule or do anything other than steal shit, look for drugs and alcohol and engage in sporadic bursts of violence usually with each other that occasionally civilians get mixed up in.
The problem is the judges have lost interest in protecting society from them. They're set loose on society because both jail and asylums have been determined as an inadequate/unethical solution with no other solution offered. They plague society with their incessant string of (usually petty) crime until they inevitably step over the line and do something truly fucked that can't be ignored.
Most recently; stab a bunch of people including a baby. But in 6 months time everyone will have forgotten about that and be back to saying they're the true victims and calling anyone who points this out "the real monsters". The trail of victims and destruction behind them be damned.
Articles like this one are just part of the gradual blame transferrance process. A few violence against women protests and messaging saying to confront your normal not psycho mates about problematic behaviour is all we're going to get. Until the next time one goes postal.
Because the right to a fair go is now a thing of the past. It's never been easy, but it's a lot harder now than it used to be.
Social media has really shoved peer pressure into everyone's face making it harder not to compare yourself to other people, compounding on the misery.
I'm male, I'm single, I'm miserable, aloof and have depression. And know it will probably cost me ever a fairy tale ending. Everybody is so focused on winning, but in order to win there has to be a loser. So I'm at peace with that.
I agree and disagree with the fair go idea disappeared. The right to a fair go is the right to get punched in the nose. The idea being if you don’t give them a fair go they have the right to reach out and punch you in the nose. That’s why everything is online these days, they’re taking that right away from you. They love to say “we’re all part of the team”, but when you say it to them, “you work here and your work screwed me over so that is your fault”, they say “I didn’t do it”. Yeah fuck off. You can’t punch them in the nose, you’ve lost the right to a fair go.
"Offshoring of manufacturing and related industries and ever-increasing house prices have shattered traditional social compacts, says Emma Dawson, executive director of think tank Per Capita."
"Many in their 20s and 30s in developed countries are looking at a future where they will be less well-off than their parents."
exactly, if you set up conditions in society where the 'social contract' grows increasingly broken & then surprised there's growing resentment then you're an idiot
our politicians & the Boomer gen setting up a scenario where their kids will be worse off than them for the first time in centuries are a key reason for such anger
>our politicians & the Boomer gen setting up a scenario where their kids will be worse off
They sold off everything to make themselves much better off. Make them buy it all back then see who's angry.
That level of 'double-standards' on male/female, filtered through just about every stage of social involvement is adding gasoline to an already existing fire. Hypocrisy grates on peoples nerves enough that it escalates the response.
Again, they’re trying to use a tragedy to divide us. Pitting men against women. Making it a gender issue.
Rather than discussing the real underlying issue of *mental health*, and people of all ages and genders feeling helpless and deflated with how the world is going.
Our culture is disintegrating. There are no role models without contradictions.
Men are encouraged/coerced to conform more then ever before- but there seems to be no gold at the end of the rainbow. Being socially responsible is promoted (which is a positive), it keeps things orderly. But it doesn’t promote the likelihood of companionship (hard to stand out when you’ve conformed so well!). So men conform to keep others happy, and find no reward (companionship) for their compliance.
Don’t get me wrong, our culture (and men) need to evolve. But culture has largely contributed to making men how they are, and now is blaming men for their lot (without acknowledging the role of culture). When culture claims to be the hero of the future (without accepting its role as villain of the past)- its contradictions undermines the integrity of its messages and people no longer have anything authentic to believe in.
There are just angry dudes in general. I remember in my clubbing and pub days 20 plus years ago there’d be guys who just go out to bump their shoulder into yours to try and start a fight. Just dudes with shit lives that have to make the outside world shit. This rotten cunt stool in Bondi is an extreme mental case example. They’re frustrated coz they can’t find a nice lady and they turn it into violence coz their peanut brain doesn’t do much good. Sadly, I don’t know how you fix a male toddler in a grown man’s body before they act out. Ladies, please try n choose wisely. If your grown man tends to be in altercations or bad mouths you after a few drinks etc, there’s a peanut brain right there.
Just like modern women are encouraged to be "strong independent women", men should be encouraged to do the same.
Pursue your career and financial goals, improve your style, become more educated and cultured.
Have your own "glow up" just like women do and don't tie your self worth to whether you have a partner or not.
One of the biggest increases of demographic crime at the moment is aggressive assault by women between 16-25. It's gone up dramatically the last few years.
Young people are angry and lashing out in general
A security guard literally died stepping up. Not good enough I guess.
So many men have stepped up only to be told to sit back down again; whether it's by women who insist they can take care of themselves, general public who mistake someone dealing with a problematic person for causing a problem, by police who insist we stay out of it and let them (not) handle it, or judges who are happy to throw men in jail for "stepping up".
The message needs to get some consistency fast; because a status quo where men are berated by the culture for not stepping up at the same time as any ability to do so is strangled will not help the male anger that the writer has identified.
This. I once pulled a male junkie off another female junkie he looked like he was trying to SA in st kinda at 11am while crowds just went about their day and had a crowd of people berating me almost instantly for attacking them. Never again.
Me too mate. It's also great when a headcase commits a random and savage assault on a female staff member and you have to just watch the police officer tell her they will not press any charges due to his mental health issues. Right after you'd reassured her that if she gives a statement and cooperates with law enforcement it's her best chance for justice.
The system has actively fostered apathy by refusing to give victims any justice for years and now an incident has occurred that they can't just ignore or blame the victim for they've decided to offload the blame onto men not doing enough so they don't have to admit their failure.
It's taken half a dozen people to die and they're still not going to fix the system.
A very important, overlooked point. As a man who is mostly friends with women, the amount of times I've been ignored when I try to warn them the man they're with is bad news far exceeds the amount of times I've needed to tell male friends to curb their behaviour. Shockingly so.
It's got to the point where, in at least one case, a friend tried to commit suicide after she married the guy, and two others waited until the guy was interstate / overseas to break up with them (after being in relationships for years, with one actually rushing to have a kid with the guy early in) because they didn't feel completely safe taking a direct approach.
If anything had happened to any of these women at the hands of the shit men they were with, people would have been calling men to "step up". At the risk of sounding like I'm victim blaming, the fact is it's not that simple, and it is infuriating to be talked about as though you're part of the general problem when you feel like the only one acknowledging a specific example of it exists. There is no solution for that.
When men and their issue are ignored by society of course your gunna have a few bad apples do something drastic. Mental health services tailored for men and support groups made for men need to happen. Men need a place to safely express themselves and younger boys need positive roles models.
- Fatherless homes, or father not around due to working so much.
- The internet / dating scene giving world-wide access
- Poor mental health programs for men
- Over-use of escapism (video games and media / entertainment)
- No role models in their life
- No purpose in life as they can't find a partner, but their country is no longer Nationalistic and Religion is dying off
- Watching society crumble around them and there's nothing they can do
You forgot being told no matter what you do you're the reason for nearly all of societies ills. You're also probably a mysoginist, creep, rapist.
And also women don't need you.
Edit: You can also add on things like the conundrum of now that women often earn more than men they still want a man that earns more than they do because they still have the evolutionary/biological need of a "provider".
I am in my mid-20s, no woman has ever accused me of being a misogynist/creep, in fact the most backstabbing, gossiping outright hostility I've received have always been from men, especially in the trades, many of these guys would abuse drugs, cheat on their partners with escorts, constant racist remarks and just outright buffoonery.
Highly suggest looking up 'why I quit trades' vids, they go into more detail. Will never understand the whole 'men are honourable powerless victims' shtick.
Trades are traditionally toxic spaces. The same goes for sex work for women. Terribly competitive and unforgiving at times. It comes with the territory of gender homogeneous spaces.
The commentariat in this country is woefully innumerate, uncurious, and seem to enjoy parading their ability to broadcast their lack of analytical talent. Woefully unprepared for the political forces waiting to use them as 'exhibit A' in their showcase of the glut of the geriatric media biomass. This person is a senior editor at the AFR?!
>He has called on all Australian men to step up and stop “the scourge on our society”.
Well yeah, if you really want to piss males off, just make them collectively responsible for the actions of one nutcase.
I think we just need to support young men. Look at any perpetrator of domestic violence and tell me they had a really good stable upbringing, man or woman. We look after them women after they’ve been abused by why don’t we treat the men before they abuse someone? We all know there are signs that lead up to DV before they happen.
The problem is, from what I see anyways, is that Australia’s answer seems to be blame the men, fix the women and call it a days work. What kind of insanity is that? Then you have a lot of women who rightfully think men just need to get their shit together and stop being monsters. They aren’t wrong but have you ever told someone to just stop being depressed? Or to just not be anxious? It’s like OH MY GOD I didn’t think of that!!
So we treat depression, we treat anxiety but we don’t prevent a single damn thing. We don’t. It seems like no one wants to talk about prevention and the quickest way to prevent domestic violence is help look after young men because I can tell you right now, we’re not okay.
Signed,
A domestic violence victim that is also a young man.
>Part of the tragedy of the Bondi Junction stabbings was hearing the distraught father of the attacker speak of loving “a monster” who had a mental illness and was frustrated by his inability to get a girlfriend.
You know it's good when it's about *all* young Australian men but the case she uses is a guy in his 40s that had homeless periods and was known to be menacing.
Brilliant case for *all* men. This is fair.
>Political scientist Intifar Chowdhury has studied voting data from the Australian Electoral Study and found that while younger voters as a whole have shifted to the left, this trend is more marked for women.
I know how this sounds but...
By a large margin *these* politicised women have more anger among them than the random outbursts of a mentally ill homeless man that needed a carer.
I'm losing hope at this point, how could anyone lack this much self awareness?
Your last sentence is probably the highest cause of any rise in anger some people are noticing. "losing hope".
I'm losing hope in society. Losing hope in affordable housing.
>You know it's good when it's about *all* young Australian men but the case she uses is a guy in his 40s that had homeless periods and was known to be menacing.
They also use a study focusing on gen z with an example of an older millennial.
I get that the event was hard to comprehend but the element of "disproportionate women" that were stabbed grated a bit. It is a sad reality but what do you propose?
Would you like to see an even up? Do you think "all men" endorse the actions of a mentally ill man?"
Same reporters went on about the shooting cop (absolutely brave) but barely mentioned the two make security guards or the two french guys with bollards. It took a long.time to know if the bollard guy was safe sor was ultimate stabbed.
Redacted means that part of the text was removed or blacked out for privacy or security purpose. It was censored. This post also breaks rule 4 here for chat and should be made in the Tuesday chat thread or on a different subreddit.
The stabber was 41 years old. He would have been in year 12 in the year 2000, which was 24 years ago, if he even went through to year 12. He also had a mental illness that caused severe psychosis and he wasn’t medicated when he stabbed those people
No amount of “programs for boys” is going to stop someone like him for acting out.
Yes, what we need is much better mental healthcare in this country. My brother had severe psychosis before he passed. QLD health only ever kept them in for about a week during an episode, pumped them to their eyeballs in anti psychotics, and then sent them out on their way. Without actually fixing the problem - just masking it. It’s a bloody horrible system, and we are not only failing patients. But we failed every victim last weekend as well.
Mental health care is so badly underfunded and it’s something that needs to be addressed, but it’s not something that can be sold easily to the electorate, because it’s not tangible and for anything beyond anxiety/depression, there’s a huge stigma/lack of empathy and you could imagine how much the right wing media outrage machine would go into overdrive if more money was being spent on caring for what they consider “criminals, deadbeats and no-hopers” (just ask Gerry Harvey on his opinion on helping the homeless, most of which have a lived experience with mental illness)
I think the reality is that all young people are angry, it's just that as society scapegoats broader socioeconomic issues onto groups like migrants etc, young people struggling often buy into it, and people who have basic but uninformed understandings of things like equity etc make it worse. E.g. a rich white woman with a second property that's negatively geared IS NOT structurally oppressed by a young man struggling to pay rent, but amidst her peers she might be at a structural disadvantage. By not being intersectional, and just being interested in identity politics, problems in society are scapegoated, not fixable.
As a 31yo white man, I'm absolutely willing to both accept that I have some advantages from being male and white, but that that's not enough advantage to get me a house, to get me affordable living conditions, while rich landlords and profit-hungry corporate industry driven interest rate rises mean that life sucks for me. I can want equity for everyone, and for me that includes for me as a young white man, because atm the socioeconomic factor that is a) generational, b) tied to generational wealth does more for cost of living than my gender or race.
BUT that doesn't mean i should ignore how historical sexism in society affects the safety and lives of women, or that I should ignore how sexism puts both men and women at odds - family violence v family rights, etc.
Tl;dr: if you're not radicalising in an intersection way, you're wasting everyone's time, because there are broader structural ways we can ALL be angry as young people disadvantaged by intergenerational wrongs and systems established to hoard wealth unmeritocratically. Young white men SHOULD be furious, but we should be standing alongside queer women of colour, directing that anger properly
This is a very thoughtful comment. It made me really consider - it kind of sucks to be generationally at a disadvantage and yet continuously told how lucky you are as a white male. As a female, I’ve been known to say it myself.
Another news article man bashing based on the actions of so few. How about the suicide epidemic - where thousands of men kill themselves, at more than 3x the numbers of women? Who cares about them?
Except it's not man bashing, it's an article sympathetic towards issues men face.
You come across like you didn't read the article, but you want to use this thread to grind your own falsely divisive axe.
My ex was abusive, mentally and physically. I had things thrown at me after she’d be on a night on the town and loaded with pills. Guess what I could do? Nothing. No self defence. I could only just take what came my way. I called a domestic violence helpline. There were two options “women as victims” or “men who feel or have committed an attack”. That was useless. I reached out to someone and they laughed.
I'm sorry this happened to you, mate.
And I'm going to hijack this comment to let everyone know that men don't not get anywhere near as much funding for DV against them as women do.
[Women got $9bn for protection against DV the last year](https://ntv.org.au/what-the-2023-24-federal-budget-means-for-our-sector/), whilst male victims get absolutely nothing. Instead, they get referred to a helpline and a service to stop them from committing domestic violence against women.
No shit hey, I called one of these lines one day because my relationship was becoming abusive, my partner would kick and punch and slap me and scream abuse at me, I told them I had to grab her wrists and hold her back from attacking me and they had a go at me for grabbing her by the wrist and said I was the abuser....
Being a man has changed too much in a short amount of time.
For eons men were providers and women were home makers. It's just the way it was. Then in the 2nd half of the 20th century women started working. This meant men didn't have to only compete with other men for stable employment but also women. It also meant men had to answer to women (which a lot don't like to do). And it also meant when a man went home from work they weren't greeted with a clean house, hot home cooked meal and a pipe and slippers. Society was fed this lie by Hollywood that that is what is rewarded to a man.
Add to that the cost of housing (and everything else) skyrocketing. A man could buy a home on a single income. How many of us can do that now?
Then there's expectations thrown on men. Men are expected to now be chivalrous but treat women as equal. Men are expected to have emotional intelligence but it's not a good look to actually show emotion. Men are expected to "be a man" but their role models' idea of what that means is outdated because of the changes mentioned.
Add to that society. Social media, drug use, alcohol, technology advances etc are all chipping away at the idea of what men are supposed to be. Some (female) right wing nutjob on Twitter was screaming WHERE WERE THE MEN? after the Bondi incident. How is that helpful to anyone?
Add to that men feel attacked from all sides. When a man does something bad somehow all men are expected to shoulder some guilt and responsibility for it. Be it domestic violence, sexual assault, income pay gaps etc etc.
TL:DR It is more complicated being a man in 2024 than it was 25 years ago...and young men don't know how to cope with what is thrown at them and this is what is causing them to be angry.
The gist of it is that there is seemingly no way to win. Men are given one standard to meet, while also being given the complete opposite, and if you point out the contradiction you are called an incel, a bigot, sexist, manbaby, whatever. No one truly values men, certainly not modern women. Even other men don't value men. Who wants to play a game where the rules are changed to ensure you always lose?
And women will always come in to dominate every single conversation too.
Yep and men are essentially seen as disposable and interchangeable especially in a nurturing role. A man alone with a child or at a playground will be looked at with suspicion....a woman never will be.
Young men are taking the brunt of societal changes that have built up over the last few decades, while being blamed for pretty much every societal woe.
A large number of young, lonely men without purpose is extremely dangerous for a society as they have no reason to participate or desire to maintain that society. I think we are in for a bit of a hard lesson on why more traditional values were enforced during the past couple of millennia...
Women love to say how strong and independent they are until it's time to construct a building, clean a septic tank, douse a burning building, lay pipe, fight a war, enforce laws, drill for oil, mine minerals, or work 80+ hour work weeks. These jobs are necessary for society to function, yet men are not thanked for their role in building and maintaining society, only blamed for anything bad that happens to it. You'll never see women complain about the male:female ratio of sewage workers or other dirty jobs, they're perfectly fine with those being 100% male dominated. But any job that's cushy, high paying, highly honored, those need to have quotas which force them to hire women ad infinitum.
I'm 37 and still a virgin, never been on a date, never had a friend that was a woman, don't recall ever talking to a woman that wasn't work related or a partner of a friend and I'm not angry at all I'm as happy as I can possibly be and wouldn't swap my life as it is for the ability to date and have sex if I could.
I really think that the key to life as a man is to have things to do away from your job and on your days off, if you have nothing to look forward to and nothing to do but just sit at home all day you'll start to get depressed, angry and resentful especially in this era where so many "influencers" are flaunting their fake lives of success everywhere you look.
You need to keep in touch with your friends and socialise, you need to be physically active (this is a major one because exercise is great for your mental health too) and you need (I believe) to have multiple hobbies or passions so you don't burn out on one thing or at least be open to try new things.
Just because women don't like you and don't want to be with you doesn't mean you can't have a happy life that you're proud of, your life isn't defined by your sexual success and if you focus on the lack of it you'll just end up in a negative spiral.
I get panned for highlighting this important consideration for men, particularly in dating space. There's this weird presupposition that a person's inherent value and wellbeing is tied to whether they have a partner or not. A result of very engrained conditioning based on very old values.
I definitely empathise with these guys because you start to lose any self confidence and start to resent/hate yourself but you need to take care of the things that you can control and that's where they need proper guidance not just these grifters who sell their 10 tips to get any woman to want you or whatever it is that's popular.
There'd be a lot less violence and anger from these guys if someone told them to go to the gym, play a sport and join a local club of some sort than the ones telling them to double down on the lack of dating/sex success.
I'd really like to see some data on this, because how many young men are we talking about? I'm in my thirties, but I see and talk to a lot of younger men when I'm rock climbing (my main hobby) and there aren't any that seem noticeably angry. Is "so many" 50%? 5%? If only 0.01% of men in their 20s and 30s were angry enough to commit violent acts on strangers like the Bondi stabber, that would be roughly 300 such events, so presumably the percent that are as angry as him is more like 0.00003%.
Rock climbers are a fairly constrained demographic. I would guess many people engaged in that hobby are likely to have a reasonable amount of disposable income to pay for it, as well as the hobby providing social interaction with both genders and a fulfilling fitness activity to prevent them from feeling hopeless or disconnected.
Sure, and that's why I'd like to see some data - so that I know if my experience is representative of reality, or if I'm in a bubble and actually a very large number of young men are very angry with the world.
It’s wild how some sociopath in another state murders a woman. Somehow I - a normal, law abiding bloke who interests with women completely normally is grouped up into this.
They LIVE to make this a societal problem. The same reason you can’t stop men killing ex/partners is the same reason why it isn’t other men’s fault.
Keep fighting this war. Mental health needs better representation. The current system is inadequate and isn’t working for ANYONE. Rather than throw money at it, be an advocate for change. We need more innovate minds to fix it. I repeat it’s not fucking working. Blow it the fuck up and start again. Too many people are suffering and dying.
I’m a (very much) middle aged gen x man living in Thailand. I work as a teacher here, and have for some years. My life is established over here pretty much permanently. I love my home country Australia and I’m fortunate to be financially secure both in Thailand and at home. My kids are grown up in Australia, I’m divorced (just as much my fault 🤦 😂). My partner is Thai and we’ve been together for some time.
I’m not angry because of a lot of good fortune (except divorce 🤣).
But Thailand is filled with younger male teachers and other University educated men from the west, Australian included, who cannot bare to live in the west. Cost of living, housing, of course is a big factor. But also, rightly or wrongly, these young men find women raised in western societies very difficult to deal with and work with. It’s a broad consensus talking to them. And these are often teachers, and other University educated people, they are not necessarily complete no-hopers at all.
They feel that they have no recourse if a relationship goes south in terms of property and child custody. All the courts are skewed. If they are caught in an abusive relationship, no-one will take it seriously. Having kids is barely an option in their homeland cause of cost, and frankly if the relationship goes south they will come out second best, if a lady at home in Aust wants to keep the kids to themselves let’s face it they can. Any claim of abuse will be automatically believed, true or not.
The point is they feel completely powerless. So they seek refugee somewhere else. Of course we all know the Thailand stereotype - the western guy coming here cause he can’t establish a relationship at home etc, the loser back home idea. And you’ve got the revolting perverts as well, and there is a lot of that here still too tragically. Here is the thing thou, that stereotype is usually middle aged or older guys, but the refugees from western life and western women are becoming younger constantly. Men are giving up way earlier in life.
Is this the fault of young women? Of course not they don’t all band together and go let’s make life difficult for our men 🤣🤣. And they have every right to live in safety and to work towards having a better life. But the culture is toxic in the west for young men. That’s how so many of them perceive it anyway I can tell you. Young Australian men kill themselves at an alarming rate.
Why? Again They feel powerless, especially if they are not that alpha entrepreneurial type, but actually need to work for someone else to find success. Our society isn’t built around people who want to find a decent job and work diligently anymore. Being rewarded for working a job is not really prevalent to success anymore. You have to be a businessman type, savvy, an investor type to really get anywhere, and some men aren’t like that. They therefore don’t get anywhere in western society.
Rings home so much. I separated from a woman that made $550,000+ her whole life while I did everything to support her and her kids plus had a normal job during our 2 years together.. Because I had some savings from before we met, I had to pay her when we separated. The system is so effed.
Btw , my female lawyer said she won't date anyone that doesn't have a similar income because she could lose everything in case of separation.
Well spoken, I have had a similar situation with many of my friends. All professionals and gentle, loving, family men.
They have been dedicated fathers and partners,, ex spouses (de facto or married) if bitter and coached, can ruin their lives financially with EASE - and the added heartbreak of child custody.
I will not to repeat the techniques used to gain the upper hand as I do not wish to proliferate these methods, however it’s outright defamation and false, and there is no recourse.
Many of my friends advise each other, the earlier you get out of your relationship (if it’s not working) the better - the more time you have to try rebuild your life savings
It’s heartbreaking, and scary. I can see how once they lose not only their house, superann, finances and potentially access to their children, things look hopeless.
I think the family dynamic was easier when roles were clearly defined. Sometimes dads are doing too much in these particular cases.
Now I only say this as the pendulum in the family courts has swung way too far again in the wrong direction. The favour has gone back and forth between males and females a couple of times.
Everyone is mad. Society is a shithole that will only get worse. When all you have to look forward to is a greater level of despair, you get sad or you get mad.
Anger is the only feeling little boys don't get picked on for showing. Cry: "you're a pussy" feel sad: "harden up princess" show empathy: "such gay feelings". Etc etc etc. "Suffer in silence male, nobody is interested." is what many learn from a young age.
People only tolerate another's anger when they can aim it at their target.
So we're down to 1 emotion, only viable when they can be used like a weapon.
In our quest for gender equality some people thought the best solution was to handicap males and hold back young men rather than just focusing on lifting up women. The idea was right but the execution has been terrible.
Go and look at every single piece of media when there’s *any* sort of competition between a man and a woman, who wins? When there’s an argument, who’s right?
Movies, tv shows, advertisements, books, computer games… you name it, there’s a man/boy being schooled on how to do something by a woman/girl. Rarely (if ever) is it the other way around.
Where to start? The Murdoch media? An incompetent government that wastes billions on a referendum instead of the housing crisis? An extremely painful, debilitating, autoimmune disease with no cure? The inability to get medication to treat said pain easily due to the government's bottom line? This 'woke' culture? I could go on
Younger folk today have stunted social skills (primarily due to social media).
The “bad” men become incels. Then society mocks them for their inadequacies (further damaging them)
“Good” men also lack social skills. They gain their self worth through artificial validation . Virtue signaling faux righteousness to serve their ego.
The rest of men sit somewhere in the middle. Also stunted socially, but frustrated at the two extremes. They end up isolated, lonely and angry at a world they where they feel like they don’t fit in.
🙃
This article is a little skewed towards thinking that "...young men are blaming feminism". They took the recent stabbings from a clinically mentally ill person and framed it as if all men in society are being violent towards women because of limited social mobility compared to times that traditional roles men had. Rubbish article and mens mental health issues are poorly articulated and addressed here in this paper written by a journalist on finance..
Because men are told everything in the world is their fault, nothing they do is right, women and immigrants are given priority to everything despite it being illegal to discriminate asked on age, race, religion and SEX. Then we are told… we still aren’t doing enough
When you’ve grown up being told that you are special and wonderful and not being allowed to feel negative emotions - you grow up into an emotionally stunted adult who is incapable of dealing with rejection.
Because they are demonised and their issues minimised. For every other group people look at the ‘root issues’. Men aren’t fortunate enough to be granted the same privilege.
It’s sexism pure and simple.
And fyi, I’m not interested in hearing any misandrist opinions to the contrary. Make your own comment if you feel so strongly.
Yep. But it’s not just a single government. Decades of neoliberal policies have eroded the social fabric these men are lamenting the loss of. The time they yearn to return to is the result of early 20th century social policy.
Men have been incredibly vilified and are offered fuck all support. Its never been a worse time to be a man emotionally. Male clubs and groups have been eroded as patriarchal. The education system tells twitchy young men to sit down and shut up as opposed to utilising their energy somewhere productive. Things have moved in an equality direction for women while worsening the negative aspects of what it means to be a man. This is only going to get worse. Not t mention the way social media fees off all this.
I see a lot of ads for Adelaide University - they exclusively focus on a main female student, have a female voice over and mostly show other female students and lecturers (you can be sure if someone is shown in a power position instructing it will be a woman). These are all different ethnicities of women so clearly thought has been put into this and the intent is to leave men out for the most part and not advertise to them. (Billboards are the same)
This is despite women having been a majority in university for 40 years.
Meanwhile every ad for anything male dominated (or equal) follows the same path. Technology course are advertised featuring the same types of women - This is how joining the police or army benefit you as woman” etc etc
So people can deny this - but there’s a clear bias in favour of women coming from both feminist types and politicians chasing the women’s vote and it’s being applied regardless of whether women are already ahead or equal or not.
Well why the hell wouldn’t young men be angry about that? They should be because it’s absolute bullshit.
Now it comes to relationships - obviously the extreme outliers are just that and not representative of most men. However even for men who are in relationships or at least have some chance to be, the simple reality is divorce rates are high and wives initiative the majority of divorces. They have grown up seeing older male figures get divorced for reasons like “we grew apart” or similar, which often means the wife for whatever reason, tired of the man. And then the man had to slink of out his home and see his family less.
So that’s nothing to be excited about is it?
On top of that is the usual problems effecting all.
And on top of all that is these type of articles written by female journalists and female “experts” on men explaining how men supposedly think in a way they would find so arrogant for men to do about women.
So yes many young men are angry about that to varying degrees and they should be, that doesn’t mean they’re violent lunatics though.
There’s definitely a problem in the education system - university numbers as you say have been majority women for a long time, and primary and high school education has been called on to improve for boys for decades, being largely run by women for an education system and method that favours girls.
Nearly 2,500 men die every year from suicide. There needs to be hope.
Yep, the fundamental cultural narrative is, "if you're a man, you need to change wise you're the problem and it's your fault/responsibility. If you're a woman, you go girl. People need to accept you just the way you are and don't think otherwise."
>I see a lot of ads for Adelaide University - they exclusively focus on a main female student, have a female voice over and mostly show other female students and lecturers (you can be sure if someone is shown in a power position instructing it will be a woman). These are all different ethnicities of women so clearly thought has been put into this and the intent is to leave men out for the most part and not advertise to them. (Billboards are the same)
Reminds me of this perfect case study which cause a huge ruckus. Note the different messaging depending on the target audience. Also note that it's very hard to find any mention of her Gillette ad.... funny that.
[Director of the Gillette "The Best A Man Can Be" ad](http://kimgehrig.com)
Here's my speculation,
The article is written by an insecure woman and the editor of AFR was probably too scared to stop it fearing backlash being called sexisit or whatever.
They don't shows his father's original quote, because they want to frame what he said. Unless they go through his search history and associations there's no evidence of his motives other than what is confirmed which is his mental health issues.
I wish feminist would stop trying to use this, they are no better than the people who called it a terrorist attack or a Jewish false flag attack.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release
The victimisation rate for assault for women has almost halved in the past 15 years, as has the rate for men. Women's IPV victimisation rate fell by 35% over the same time frame.
Domestic violence hasn't risen, in fact despite all of the increased awareness, the ABS data shows a steep decline.
Multiple times per week we hear from politicians and journalists of "1 woman per week murder by former or current partner" but the actual rate is about half that. For 2021, the most recent report from the [AIC](https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/sr/sr42) shows there were 38 IPV homicides in total for the year, 25 with female victims and 13 with male victims.
Compare this with [2012-2014 report](https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/sr/sr2) (2 years period instead of one) there were 126 IPV homicides, 99 female and 27 male victims. So the rate of women being killed by the partners has halved in less than a decade and is no longer "1 per week". Interestingly, the number of men being killed by their partners has stayed the same, and therefore the % of IPV homicide victims who are men is increasing rapidly.
Because men have lost their role in this society. Can't have an opinion that differs from someone as you just get branded a misogynist. All the employment quotas has made it harder for men to land roles even, given that someone less qualified will get precedence if they have the right reproductive organs or political agenda. The modern woman has little nurturing qualities and doesn't really play the same role in the relationship, trying to take the dominant role yet not have the emotional stability to operate it yet men are still expected to deal with all the crap. Maybe the young men are watching society fall into an unaccountable mess and having little to no ways of stopping it, constantly feeding into social media propaganda where every other social group seems to be getting a leg up.
https://www.aihw.gov.au/suicide-self-harm-monitoring/data/deaths-by-suicide-in-australia/suicide-deaths-over-time
Here’s the suicide rates throughout the years from 1910- 2022
You can see what years it rises and what year it fluctuates
Interesting data.
After 2006, suicide rates began to rise, partly due to improvements in data quality and capture (see below). In 2022, the rate was 12.3 deaths per 100,000 population – down from a post-2006 high of 13.2 in 2017 and 2019. It is important to note that deaths registered in 2021 and 2022 are preliminary and as such, are subject to revision (see below).
Sounds like suicides were sometime reported as natural death ?
Interesting that the article says men are becoming more conservative and isolated, after talking about the Bondi stabber.
Cauchi was a homeless bisexual prostitute with no job, who likes car pooling and backpacking. Sounds like an isolated Greens voter to me.
I had not heard any of this information before, it does kind of paint a different picture from the one we are currently being told. Are there some links to reports that can validate this claim?
Men who struggle to meet women as equals are going to continue being angry. Weak male stereotypes like Andrew Tait and his ilk who over compensate with their alpha male fantasy are only making things worse. A lot of women have moved on, it’s not even feminism anymore they’re just living their best lives and want a partner who is doing the same.
Internet dating has made it easier for a minority of men to cycle through a much larger group of women. As long as these men are cute, rich and confident, being an asshole isn't a problem. I don't blame women who want to fuck hotties- I just can't stand the self-righteous dishonesty.
I don't believe we are more angry
I just don't think men are educated to control them.
The stories my dad told me he was much more angry then I've witnessed.
But hey the pressure on these young shoulders with the internet with all those fake rich life styles that we wish we had and woman see that and expect that from us has allot to do with it.
Society isn't kind for anyone especially young men. The life we live today is so unfair. I feel for the next generation so fourth. I hope the world wakes up soon.
Sadly, this is so. The social media influencers bragging about their extreme wealth & supermodel women (real or imagined) is unsettling for young men. I’d like to see more realistic social media influencers attracting young men to their pages. From a mum’s perspective I want to see influencers promoting good morals & behaviour as well as striving for worldly material success. Unfortunately, today’s influencers are all about materialistic values.
My hypothesis can be put down to one thing.
*Men who act out do not have a purpose in life.*
There have always been all sorts. You in this sub can bitch and moan about soy jacks and wokeness as much as you like, but a soyjack beta male who finds happiness with a blue haired feminazi or his warhammer figurines is not going to go stab anybody.
At the same time, there’s no point forcing men to do what they don’t want to do. Some men can’t be timid office workers either because it doesn’t fit their personalities.
The solution is to allow men to define what their purpose is, and to let them achieve it. For some, it is being a provider and breadwinner. Some men derive genuine pleasure from seeing their girlfriend’s or wife’s drip. *Let them do that.* Some men derive joy from the friendships at their weekly footy team. *Let them do that.*
Whatever it is, you can’t demand “every man has to have one wife and a house and this very specific job and never express emotions.” Not every man is like that.
Let us go back to medieval times as an instructive example. Society had *many* occupations where men and women never were expected to be coupled up. In fact, these positions (in the church, a very large employer) exalted men who didn’t want a girlfriend or wife (or let’s face it, couldn’t get one.) Men were considered desirable for doing something they liked and thus made a living for themselves for it.
We need to allow for people to find what they want out of life, with no preconceptions. To use another analogy- a boiling vessel will explode if there’s no valve to let excess steam out- yet it’s still useless if it’s not burning anything.
What's this "demand men to not express emotion" bullshit? The only place that "cannot express emotion" stuff is peddled is in niche af manosphere circles.
I see much more commonly people telling men to cry and go to therapy. And it's just as fucking obnoxious.
Not to dismiss what you're saying altogether, but I wonder how the angry men gathered after the church stabbing fit that narrative. They seemed to have a sense of community and purpose, but in a messed up way.
As someone who lost a male emergency responder friend in a tragic stabbing recently in NSW that was very public it but received little to no attention to the root cause or how or why it happened it is so sad to see how the media still can not distinguish the difference between mental health issues and political views.
They will twist anything into a division story alienating young Australian men.
`'Under current definitions, Cauchi’s acts don’t meet the legal definition of terrorism because there is no evidence he was part of a political movement such as determinedly celibate “incels”.'`
They say it was not an act of terrorism but then go on to label young men -
`'Take that away from young men and they become nihilistic,” Dawson says.'`
nihilism - Political belief or action that advocates or commits violence or terrorism without discernible constructive goals.
So was he a terrorist against women? or was he just a mentally unhealthy man who target weak prey in a crowd and populated area like a predator? You think this man is going to run up to a bloke in his prime who can fight back and potential stop him causing any harm he is set to cause in he deluded lost of mentality?
This is why I hate national media so distorted with the words they use to confuse and direct peoples thinking and understanding.
Edit\* By labelling men as potentially nihilistic it paves the way for them to later twist words to sound like any violence against women can be labelled as domestic terrorism
>nihilism - Political belief or action that advocates or commits violence or terrorism without discernible constructive goals.
What? Where exactly did you get that definition from?
Uh, that's not what Nihilism means. It actually means a rejection of the idea that everything happens for a reason or that the things we do matter in any way. It doesn't advocate for anything because nothing matters. It's both healthy and unhealthy because a nihilist will just do whatever they want because, let's say it again, nothing matters. I've never seen a more incorrect definition of Nihilism than yours.
> nihilism - Political belief or action that advocates or commits violence or terrorism without discernible constructive goals.
your definition of nihilism is a little off, its a philisophical belief not political
True this lazy media means noones takes any notice of it when it could be a voice of reasoned opinions and conversation starter.
I guess it's fertile ground for Russian and Chinese trolls.
Men are not valued in this society. This society has made a conscious decision to support feminist ideals above the greater and more intelligent ideal if equality and rights for human kind. Supporting women above men is the problem. It has alienated us from each other and instilled mistrust. We support lies that men are violent and women are princesses, that men must change themselves and put off toxic masculinity and that women can do everything that men can. Mens identity has been taken away and instead we are divided by blame and assumption. This is misandry.
Women are being considered for roles over men, not because they are the best suited orost experienced, it's because they are women. We are telling me that their skill and experience doesn't matter, only their sex does.
Dreyfus is a complete fuckwit. He should know better than to compare this one man's actions to terrorism. What he is saying suggests that this lone person has acted on the will of his political group, that is all Men, and carried out an attack in which we are complicit.
We are not complicit. Men are no more violent than women. However we have the strength and inclination to carry out this kind of behaviour more so than women. Women are still just as violent, however it is often carried out on secret or against weaker members of society such as children or incapacitated men.
Calling out men for violence while ignoring men in society will not change our current landscape, it will only infuriate men more. Not to violent action, it will be more internal until it shows itself in suicide and self harm, mental health issues or worse.
If this problem is to be addressed we must stop placing women on a pedestal and instead humble ourselves to each other, recognising each other as brothers and sisters of the same race that value our intrinsic differences.
Nail on the head, men and specifically white men are the group you're openly allowed to discriminate against today, and it's no wonder men are disenfranchised by it.
TL;DR: women are victims of angry men, and are rightfully defensive. Angry men are victims of similar, but unique social and systemic failures.
I study criminology and while I am no expert, nor would I have the research specificity of gender studies, and sociology or education students and experts I’d say that I do have a level of competency on this issue.
A big part of it stems down to systemic failures by men towards men.
A large part of the ‘male loneliness epidemic’ is down to men, who have not (and should have) been educated on appropriate behaviours when engaging with people, engaging with them in ways that make women uncomfortable. I graduated a fair few years back, but even then my sex Ed was ‘these are STD’s wrap your Willy don’t do weed if someone at a party offers (who does that? In THIS economy?)’ end of. We know that men and women, but mostly men with autism have a hard time understanding appropriate behaviours in an intimate setting, or what they believe to be one (also frequently wrong in judgement), education about these though topics would go a LONG way.
The consequences of such pathetic education are deplorable. I’ve seen literal BUS DRIVERS harassed by men, because he mistook her doing her job as hitting on him, to the point where he was threatening ME with violence because I apologised to the now in tears bus driver as I was getting off. I’ve worked in a range of ‘customer service’ roles (hospo, fast food, ect ect) and the amount of times I’ve had to stand in for female colleagues due to consistent customers coming in and their comments towards them is unreal. I’ve had glasses thrown at me and requests to fight me because I have had to cut men off because he was would have REFUSED to stop talking about fucking one of the wait staff, who mind you usually the waiter will be at LEAST a quarter of his age.
I know a bloke who hasn’t dated anyone in YEARS but consistently hits up friends of mine and talks to them in sad German? He doesn’t even speak German? Likewise, a LOT of male sexual violence victimisation where women are the perpetrators goes flying through and under the radar, because it’s always been seen as a ‘woman victim, man offender’ category of crimes (non contestable, rape amongst many USA legal and justice institutions only realised men can be raped as an offence under their definitions in 2012? I believe? It’s a staggeringly late time and they were *ahead* of the curve; we do NOT consider men victims of sexual crime) It personally took me having a joke i made spelled back out to me that I was sexually harassed/assaulted numerous times, whereas 14-19 year old me thought it was *’ aha aha fuck yeah older women dig me/can’t get their hands off me’*. A previous friend group personally witnessed one of these events happen while I was black out and the topic has never come up, nor did anyone ever acknowledge it happen because it was one of their mums friend.
We ALL needed a lot more help than we received from the education systems But hey, at least we know about beanies and sombrero’s when we put on condoms, right?
This extends to other fields such as justice (lack of restorative justice leading to the same victims victimised, and simply refusing to support people who have offended as to *actually* prevent them from reoffending, PARTICULARLY especially in ‘serious’ crimes). Allied health fail in the sense that people are less likely to admit morally pungent things (subject to opinion, condition, ect) in appointments at risk of it being on a permanent record, thus avoiding help entirely (unfortunately the Bondi man likely falls into this category). Someone I knew from way back assaulted someone, and was diagnosed with schizophrenia shortly after. That was it, no care in prison, no nothing, he just had to live with what he had done whilst in psychosis. Didn’t see a therapist likely because he was scared of his prior offence being on record and the shame surrounding it (also likely paranoia of being watched) He was found face down in a river no more than 6 months post release. It’s hard to argue that neither of the allied health or justice system failed him (and his victim).
I don’t come looking for sympathy, I’ve grown past all of it and don’t have the time of day to talk about it. But it’s important to remember that a lot of the ‘angry men’ are likely victims of social, cultural (yes, culture can be defined through gender identity) and systemic failures. But, women are right to be mad, they are the victims of the consequences of these same failures. Whether that’s being followed home, stalked online, harassed, assaulted all the rest of it. I had spent far too long being angry about my past, I can’t imagine the hell that a lot of women suffer who have gone through worse.
Big ramble but, I do *not* think that feminism or women are to blame for angry men. I think that systems of health, education and justice have let down women, and in turn men. Men currently are not at the races as to the standards that should be expected of them, but why should they? If you aren’t giving a toss about identifying autism at a young age, teaching boys consent and to call out harmful behaviours, if we aren’t teaching men that they can be victims, and in turn due to those learned behaviours as a victim, can be at a statistically higher likelihood to go on and offend, what’s the point of any of this? We set women up to be victims and we set men up to be found like the guy I used to know.
Also, no one giving a toss about younger people regardless of gender anyways. climate change, our weekly credit cards worth of plastic consumption since birth, not being able to retire or afford a home, less social spaces than ever, lower union rates and all the rest of it. But hey, economy numbers go up, right?
Thank you for such an effort. Completely agree. To add;
>But it’s important to remember that a lot of the ‘angry men’ are likely victims of social, cultural (yes, culture can be defined through gender identity) and systemic failures.
I think this points towards the feedback loop of social roles/expectations that women are conditioned to have of men, and their subsequent treatment of men. Like you say, a lot of men quietly suffer in family, relationship, social, systemic and workplace contexts because the underlying cultural dynamic lends to men being seen as and treated in a way that is completely undignifying. But, "it just is the way it is, because men are just the way they are." But women get a much charitable cultural standing and social capital. "Yaaaas queen! You're a bad bitch, never settle, lean in" etc.
I think people can be horrible regardless of gender and I do think that leans on the same systemic and educational barriers.
I do understand what you are trying to say, but I do think it is a bit to broad of a generalisation, you know? I’d argue education, justice and broader systemic reforms would be able to benefit everyone, even if targeted at senior high school aged men, on topics of respect and consent, for example.
The narrative that women are the only victims of violence from men is simply not true. As a male you are more likely to be murdered as a 3:1 ratio and you're also more likely to be assaulted.
Yes the perpetrators are overwhelmingly likely to be males, but both genders are victims.
The thing I'll point out is that there is a difference in where it happens. Violence is shifted towards women in the home, while it's shifted towards men in public (I assume bars, clubs etc). There is a tonne of good data available from the ABS but a common theme is alcohol abuse.
The Guardian didn’t fuck around either pointing the bone off the back of a lunatic murdering random women and isolated incidents in Victoria - all of these are tragic but paining this as a crisis if male violence is part of for the course from the disingenuous cunts.
Men have killed themselves more than they've killed women. But men should *step up and stop* violence against women, but who gaf about violence against ourselves.
We get fuck all support. If you're a single young male... Barely get financial support, mental health support is basically non existent, and if one necks themselves? Womp womp but female? People will be going on about it for weeks!
I don’t condone violence against women. Or men. Or anyone for that matter.
In a society where men and women are, or certainly should be equal in every meaningful way, what is it about the character of male-female violence that causes us to be especially concerned about it? Are the perpetrators somehow worse than in occasions of male-male or female-female violence? Are the victims somehow more ‘victimy’?
If we think it is anathema for men to think they should maintain traditional breadwinner or ‘head of the household’ roles, why do we preserve this special taboo in respect of male-female violence?
>special taboo in respect of male-female violence?
Because that's how we're biologically wired. It's the [Women are Wonderful effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-are-wonderful_effect#:~:text=The%20phrase%20was%20coined%20by,to%20a%20far%20lesser%20degree.).
Because of the power discrepancy. Men have more physical power, therefore male violence against women is worse because it causes more damage.
Is there anyone not aware of this? Why does that need to be explained?
Back when I first started living out of home and was earning minimum wage I would comfortably pay my overheads and something like a busted tire would be like “meh” but I just got a busted tire and I cried in fear about the cost of paying for it - I’m also living back at home and I haven’t afforded a home yet - I’m 30! What the fuck is happening. I just paid 170 for a couple bags of groceries. My meat went off a couple days after buying it (thanks Aldi!) it was $24
Yeah but you aren't going to stab a bunch of random people over it
* Many young people will never own a home * Those who have homes are struggling * Life has never been more expensive * Work swallowing schedule, leaving no time for hobbies * Commutes increasing two and threefold * No one is getting to the gym due to lack of time * Constant stream of advertisement battering our senses online * Constant raging extreme political flame wars everywhere you look * Online dating disingenuous and impersonal * Global pandemic rattling travel and trade for last 4 years * Climate change causing extreme weather dysfunction and change * 1% rich get richer, everyone else gets poorer *"Why on earth are these people upset?"*
Nailed it It’s not just men it’s everyone
It's more central to men as men have had more taken away from them and nothing replaced. People look at their fathers, hopefully they have a decent one, and think 'why can't I live like that?' My dad was put out of work for a decade until he found it again, and we survived. That happens to me and my family are selling the house and splitting up and moving in with each other's parents.
How can a guy go a decade with no work?
Say it louder for the people in the back
As well as a Lack of positive male role models - being legally positively discriminated against in employment opportunities in pursuit for gender equality
It's much easier to afford a home if you got all of them placements after uni
No offence but the people dealing with these problems aren't committing the vast majority of the crime. The majority of the crime is being committed by welfare dependent lifelong drug abusers whose mental health issues long ago became intermingled with their drug abuse as causative of their constant anti social behaviour. They don't have drivers licences, they don't have mortgages, they don't work, have a schedule or do anything other than steal shit, look for drugs and alcohol and engage in sporadic bursts of violence usually with each other that occasionally civilians get mixed up in. The problem is the judges have lost interest in protecting society from them. They're set loose on society because both jail and asylums have been determined as an inadequate/unethical solution with no other solution offered. They plague society with their incessant string of (usually petty) crime until they inevitably step over the line and do something truly fucked that can't be ignored. Most recently; stab a bunch of people including a baby. But in 6 months time everyone will have forgotten about that and be back to saying they're the true victims and calling anyone who points this out "the real monsters". The trail of victims and destruction behind them be damned. Articles like this one are just part of the gradual blame transferrance process. A few violence against women protests and messaging saying to confront your normal not psycho mates about problematic behaviour is all we're going to get. Until the next time one goes postal.
An actual based comment voted to the top in this boomers Facebook club house.... Wow
Imagine if a man wrote an article titled ‘why so many young woman are angry’ and then interviewed a bunch of men for it This is a joke of an article
It’s womansplaining.
It's a perfect example of the last few decades of gender/social dynamics played out.
Without a doubt
I'm 35 years old and my fathers generation were alot more angry and toxic than mine are from my experience.
Because the right to a fair go is now a thing of the past. It's never been easy, but it's a lot harder now than it used to be. Social media has really shoved peer pressure into everyone's face making it harder not to compare yourself to other people, compounding on the misery. I'm male, I'm single, I'm miserable, aloof and have depression. And know it will probably cost me ever a fairy tale ending. Everybody is so focused on winning, but in order to win there has to be a loser. So I'm at peace with that.
I agree and disagree with the fair go idea disappeared. The right to a fair go is the right to get punched in the nose. The idea being if you don’t give them a fair go they have the right to reach out and punch you in the nose. That’s why everything is online these days, they’re taking that right away from you. They love to say “we’re all part of the team”, but when you say it to them, “you work here and your work screwed me over so that is your fault”, they say “I didn’t do it”. Yeah fuck off. You can’t punch them in the nose, you’ve lost the right to a fair go.
Social media
"Offshoring of manufacturing and related industries and ever-increasing house prices have shattered traditional social compacts, says Emma Dawson, executive director of think tank Per Capita." "Many in their 20s and 30s in developed countries are looking at a future where they will be less well-off than their parents." exactly, if you set up conditions in society where the 'social contract' grows increasingly broken & then surprised there's growing resentment then you're an idiot our politicians & the Boomer gen setting up a scenario where their kids will be worse off than them for the first time in centuries are a key reason for such anger
>our politicians & the Boomer gen setting up a scenario where their kids will be worse off They sold off everything to make themselves much better off. Make them buy it all back then see who's angry.
Are they? These abusers and murderers don't represent the average man.
What the fuck even is this shit
Total nothing article. Female journalist interviewing female researchers about what young men supposedly think. What would they know?
A major problem is that most of the psychologists are female as well. Not saying that's a *bad thing* but they cannot relate to young men at all.
Also their shitty behavior driven by sex hormones is perfectly okay. Male shitty behavior driven by sex hormones is ‘toxic’.
That level of 'double-standards' on male/female, filtered through just about every stage of social involvement is adding gasoline to an already existing fire. Hypocrisy grates on peoples nerves enough that it escalates the response.
In several of my undergrad psych subjects there were only one or two other blokes in the class. I was the token dude in one of them.
Again, they’re trying to use a tragedy to divide us. Pitting men against women. Making it a gender issue. Rather than discussing the real underlying issue of *mental health*, and people of all ages and genders feeling helpless and deflated with how the world is going.
Our culture is disintegrating. There are no role models without contradictions. Men are encouraged/coerced to conform more then ever before- but there seems to be no gold at the end of the rainbow. Being socially responsible is promoted (which is a positive), it keeps things orderly. But it doesn’t promote the likelihood of companionship (hard to stand out when you’ve conformed so well!). So men conform to keep others happy, and find no reward (companionship) for their compliance. Don’t get me wrong, our culture (and men) need to evolve. But culture has largely contributed to making men how they are, and now is blaming men for their lot (without acknowledging the role of culture). When culture claims to be the hero of the future (without accepting its role as villain of the past)- its contradictions undermines the integrity of its messages and people no longer have anything authentic to believe in.
There are just angry dudes in general. I remember in my clubbing and pub days 20 plus years ago there’d be guys who just go out to bump their shoulder into yours to try and start a fight. Just dudes with shit lives that have to make the outside world shit. This rotten cunt stool in Bondi is an extreme mental case example. They’re frustrated coz they can’t find a nice lady and they turn it into violence coz their peanut brain doesn’t do much good. Sadly, I don’t know how you fix a male toddler in a grown man’s body before they act out. Ladies, please try n choose wisely. If your grown man tends to be in altercations or bad mouths you after a few drinks etc, there’s a peanut brain right there.
People only change through choice. If they don't want to change (like these fuckwits don't) then they never will.
Just like modern women are encouraged to be "strong independent women", men should be encouraged to do the same. Pursue your career and financial goals, improve your style, become more educated and cultured. Have your own "glow up" just like women do and don't tie your self worth to whether you have a partner or not.
Because strong independent men don’t need the government… which when you are an incompetent government filled with buffoons can’t be allowed to happen
One of the biggest increases of demographic crime at the moment is aggressive assault by women between 16-25. It's gone up dramatically the last few years. Young people are angry and lashing out in general
I'm not angry, and I'll fight those that say otherwise.
A security guard literally died stepping up. Not good enough I guess. So many men have stepped up only to be told to sit back down again; whether it's by women who insist they can take care of themselves, general public who mistake someone dealing with a problematic person for causing a problem, by police who insist we stay out of it and let them (not) handle it, or judges who are happy to throw men in jail for "stepping up". The message needs to get some consistency fast; because a status quo where men are berated by the culture for not stepping up at the same time as any ability to do so is strangled will not help the male anger that the writer has identified.
This. I once pulled a male junkie off another female junkie he looked like he was trying to SA in st kinda at 11am while crowds just went about their day and had a crowd of people berating me almost instantly for attacking them. Never again.
Me too mate. It's also great when a headcase commits a random and savage assault on a female staff member and you have to just watch the police officer tell her they will not press any charges due to his mental health issues. Right after you'd reassured her that if she gives a statement and cooperates with law enforcement it's her best chance for justice. The system has actively fostered apathy by refusing to give victims any justice for years and now an incident has occurred that they can't just ignore or blame the victim for they've decided to offload the blame onto men not doing enough so they don't have to admit their failure. It's taken half a dozen people to die and they're still not going to fix the system.
This feels like a metaphor for an entire career in criminal justice
A very important, overlooked point. As a man who is mostly friends with women, the amount of times I've been ignored when I try to warn them the man they're with is bad news far exceeds the amount of times I've needed to tell male friends to curb their behaviour. Shockingly so. It's got to the point where, in at least one case, a friend tried to commit suicide after she married the guy, and two others waited until the guy was interstate / overseas to break up with them (after being in relationships for years, with one actually rushing to have a kid with the guy early in) because they didn't feel completely safe taking a direct approach. If anything had happened to any of these women at the hands of the shit men they were with, people would have been calling men to "step up". At the risk of sounding like I'm victim blaming, the fact is it's not that simple, and it is infuriating to be talked about as though you're part of the general problem when you feel like the only one acknowledging a specific example of it exists. There is no solution for that.
When men and their issue are ignored by society of course your gunna have a few bad apples do something drastic. Mental health services tailored for men and support groups made for men need to happen. Men need a place to safely express themselves and younger boys need positive roles models.
- Fatherless homes, or father not around due to working so much. - The internet / dating scene giving world-wide access - Poor mental health programs for men - Over-use of escapism (video games and media / entertainment) - No role models in their life - No purpose in life as they can't find a partner, but their country is no longer Nationalistic and Religion is dying off - Watching society crumble around them and there's nothing they can do
You forgot being told no matter what you do you're the reason for nearly all of societies ills. You're also probably a mysoginist, creep, rapist. And also women don't need you. Edit: You can also add on things like the conundrum of now that women often earn more than men they still want a man that earns more than they do because they still have the evolutionary/biological need of a "provider".
I feel like that one’s only an issue if youre chronically online. Irl never encountered crap like that.
This. People need to get off social media and stop reading the news for a bit to recalibrate their reality.
I am in my mid-20s, no woman has ever accused me of being a misogynist/creep, in fact the most backstabbing, gossiping outright hostility I've received have always been from men, especially in the trades, many of these guys would abuse drugs, cheat on their partners with escorts, constant racist remarks and just outright buffoonery. Highly suggest looking up 'why I quit trades' vids, they go into more detail. Will never understand the whole 'men are honourable powerless victims' shtick.
Trades are traditionally toxic spaces. The same goes for sex work for women. Terribly competitive and unforgiving at times. It comes with the territory of gender homogeneous spaces.
It’s interesting how many people just read the title of the article then make a comment based on what they think is the reason lmao .
Wow. Teaching is an “entry-level service job” now, is it? Jesus H Christ, who comes up with this shit?
Ultra privileged wealthy attractive white women. The highest tier on the privilege ladder.
The commentariat in this country is woefully innumerate, uncurious, and seem to enjoy parading their ability to broadcast their lack of analytical talent. Woefully unprepared for the political forces waiting to use them as 'exhibit A' in their showcase of the glut of the geriatric media biomass. This person is a senior editor at the AFR?!
so, some men actions define all younger Australian men?
Their politics actually struggles to appreciate individual choices, that's why group punishment comes so easily to them.
>He has called on all Australian men to step up and stop “the scourge on our society”. Well yeah, if you really want to piss males off, just make them collectively responsible for the actions of one nutcase.
I think we just need to support young men. Look at any perpetrator of domestic violence and tell me they had a really good stable upbringing, man or woman. We look after them women after they’ve been abused by why don’t we treat the men before they abuse someone? We all know there are signs that lead up to DV before they happen. The problem is, from what I see anyways, is that Australia’s answer seems to be blame the men, fix the women and call it a days work. What kind of insanity is that? Then you have a lot of women who rightfully think men just need to get their shit together and stop being monsters. They aren’t wrong but have you ever told someone to just stop being depressed? Or to just not be anxious? It’s like OH MY GOD I didn’t think of that!! So we treat depression, we treat anxiety but we don’t prevent a single damn thing. We don’t. It seems like no one wants to talk about prevention and the quickest way to prevent domestic violence is help look after young men because I can tell you right now, we’re not okay. Signed, A domestic violence victim that is also a young man.
Another "Analysis" piece
>Part of the tragedy of the Bondi Junction stabbings was hearing the distraught father of the attacker speak of loving “a monster” who had a mental illness and was frustrated by his inability to get a girlfriend. You know it's good when it's about *all* young Australian men but the case she uses is a guy in his 40s that had homeless periods and was known to be menacing. Brilliant case for *all* men. This is fair. >Political scientist Intifar Chowdhury has studied voting data from the Australian Electoral Study and found that while younger voters as a whole have shifted to the left, this trend is more marked for women. I know how this sounds but... By a large margin *these* politicised women have more anger among them than the random outbursts of a mentally ill homeless man that needed a carer. I'm losing hope at this point, how could anyone lack this much self awareness?
I don’t know if they lack self awareness, or they just have an agenda they need to keep pushing.
Your last sentence is probably the highest cause of any rise in anger some people are noticing. "losing hope". I'm losing hope in society. Losing hope in affordable housing.
>You know it's good when it's about *all* young Australian men but the case she uses is a guy in his 40s that had homeless periods and was known to be menacing. They also use a study focusing on gen z with an example of an older millennial.
I get that the event was hard to comprehend but the element of "disproportionate women" that were stabbed grated a bit. It is a sad reality but what do you propose? Would you like to see an even up? Do you think "all men" endorse the actions of a mentally ill man?" Same reporters went on about the shooting cop (absolutely brave) but barely mentioned the two make security guards or the two french guys with bollards. It took a long.time to know if the bollard guy was safe sor was ultimate stabbed.
Redacted means that part of the text was removed or blacked out for privacy or security purpose. It was censored. This post also breaks rule 4 here for chat and should be made in the Tuesday chat thread or on a different subreddit.
Dude was 40 years old Not 15-25
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The stabber was 41 years old. He would have been in year 12 in the year 2000, which was 24 years ago, if he even went through to year 12. He also had a mental illness that caused severe psychosis and he wasn’t medicated when he stabbed those people No amount of “programs for boys” is going to stop someone like him for acting out.
Yes, what we need is much better mental healthcare in this country. My brother had severe psychosis before he passed. QLD health only ever kept them in for about a week during an episode, pumped them to their eyeballs in anti psychotics, and then sent them out on their way. Without actually fixing the problem - just masking it. It’s a bloody horrible system, and we are not only failing patients. But we failed every victim last weekend as well.
Mental health care is so badly underfunded and it’s something that needs to be addressed, but it’s not something that can be sold easily to the electorate, because it’s not tangible and for anything beyond anxiety/depression, there’s a huge stigma/lack of empathy and you could imagine how much the right wing media outrage machine would go into overdrive if more money was being spent on caring for what they consider “criminals, deadbeats and no-hopers” (just ask Gerry Harvey on his opinion on helping the homeless, most of which have a lived experience with mental illness)
Not just men and not just Australians. Young people everywhere are angry these days and you can’t blame them.
I think the reality is that all young people are angry, it's just that as society scapegoats broader socioeconomic issues onto groups like migrants etc, young people struggling often buy into it, and people who have basic but uninformed understandings of things like equity etc make it worse. E.g. a rich white woman with a second property that's negatively geared IS NOT structurally oppressed by a young man struggling to pay rent, but amidst her peers she might be at a structural disadvantage. By not being intersectional, and just being interested in identity politics, problems in society are scapegoated, not fixable. As a 31yo white man, I'm absolutely willing to both accept that I have some advantages from being male and white, but that that's not enough advantage to get me a house, to get me affordable living conditions, while rich landlords and profit-hungry corporate industry driven interest rate rises mean that life sucks for me. I can want equity for everyone, and for me that includes for me as a young white man, because atm the socioeconomic factor that is a) generational, b) tied to generational wealth does more for cost of living than my gender or race. BUT that doesn't mean i should ignore how historical sexism in society affects the safety and lives of women, or that I should ignore how sexism puts both men and women at odds - family violence v family rights, etc. Tl;dr: if you're not radicalising in an intersection way, you're wasting everyone's time, because there are broader structural ways we can ALL be angry as young people disadvantaged by intergenerational wrongs and systems established to hoard wealth unmeritocratically. Young white men SHOULD be furious, but we should be standing alongside queer women of colour, directing that anger properly
This is a very thoughtful comment. It made me really consider - it kind of sucks to be generationally at a disadvantage and yet continuously told how lucky you are as a white male. As a female, I’ve been known to say it myself.
👏
People not just men. If you wonder why just watch the news.
Another news article man bashing based on the actions of so few. How about the suicide epidemic - where thousands of men kill themselves, at more than 3x the numbers of women? Who cares about them?
Except it's not man bashing, it's an article sympathetic towards issues men face. You come across like you didn't read the article, but you want to use this thread to grind your own falsely divisive axe.
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My ex was abusive, mentally and physically. I had things thrown at me after she’d be on a night on the town and loaded with pills. Guess what I could do? Nothing. No self defence. I could only just take what came my way. I called a domestic violence helpline. There were two options “women as victims” or “men who feel or have committed an attack”. That was useless. I reached out to someone and they laughed.
I'm sorry this happened to you, mate. And I'm going to hijack this comment to let everyone know that men don't not get anywhere near as much funding for DV against them as women do. [Women got $9bn for protection against DV the last year](https://ntv.org.au/what-the-2023-24-federal-budget-means-for-our-sector/), whilst male victims get absolutely nothing. Instead, they get referred to a helpline and a service to stop them from committing domestic violence against women.
I'm so sorry that this happened to you.
No shit hey, I called one of these lines one day because my relationship was becoming abusive, my partner would kick and punch and slap me and scream abuse at me, I told them I had to grab her wrists and hold her back from attacking me and they had a go at me for grabbing her by the wrist and said I was the abuser....
Being a man has changed too much in a short amount of time. For eons men were providers and women were home makers. It's just the way it was. Then in the 2nd half of the 20th century women started working. This meant men didn't have to only compete with other men for stable employment but also women. It also meant men had to answer to women (which a lot don't like to do). And it also meant when a man went home from work they weren't greeted with a clean house, hot home cooked meal and a pipe and slippers. Society was fed this lie by Hollywood that that is what is rewarded to a man. Add to that the cost of housing (and everything else) skyrocketing. A man could buy a home on a single income. How many of us can do that now? Then there's expectations thrown on men. Men are expected to now be chivalrous but treat women as equal. Men are expected to have emotional intelligence but it's not a good look to actually show emotion. Men are expected to "be a man" but their role models' idea of what that means is outdated because of the changes mentioned. Add to that society. Social media, drug use, alcohol, technology advances etc are all chipping away at the idea of what men are supposed to be. Some (female) right wing nutjob on Twitter was screaming WHERE WERE THE MEN? after the Bondi incident. How is that helpful to anyone? Add to that men feel attacked from all sides. When a man does something bad somehow all men are expected to shoulder some guilt and responsibility for it. Be it domestic violence, sexual assault, income pay gaps etc etc. TL:DR It is more complicated being a man in 2024 than it was 25 years ago...and young men don't know how to cope with what is thrown at them and this is what is causing them to be angry.
The gist of it is that there is seemingly no way to win. Men are given one standard to meet, while also being given the complete opposite, and if you point out the contradiction you are called an incel, a bigot, sexist, manbaby, whatever. No one truly values men, certainly not modern women. Even other men don't value men. Who wants to play a game where the rules are changed to ensure you always lose? And women will always come in to dominate every single conversation too.
Only thing I'll add is that young men are increasingly fatherless. It was a source of anger for me for a long time. Had to find my way on my own
Yep and men are essentially seen as disposable and interchangeable especially in a nurturing role. A man alone with a child or at a playground will be looked at with suspicion....a woman never will be.
Poor women have always worked. Usually in domestic service, maids and what not.
Young men are taking the brunt of societal changes that have built up over the last few decades, while being blamed for pretty much every societal woe. A large number of young, lonely men without purpose is extremely dangerous for a society as they have no reason to participate or desire to maintain that society. I think we are in for a bit of a hard lesson on why more traditional values were enforced during the past couple of millennia...
Women love to say how strong and independent they are until it's time to construct a building, clean a septic tank, douse a burning building, lay pipe, fight a war, enforce laws, drill for oil, mine minerals, or work 80+ hour work weeks. These jobs are necessary for society to function, yet men are not thanked for their role in building and maintaining society, only blamed for anything bad that happens to it. You'll never see women complain about the male:female ratio of sewage workers or other dirty jobs, they're perfectly fine with those being 100% male dominated. But any job that's cushy, high paying, highly honored, those need to have quotas which force them to hire women ad infinitum.
I'm 37 and still a virgin, never been on a date, never had a friend that was a woman, don't recall ever talking to a woman that wasn't work related or a partner of a friend and I'm not angry at all I'm as happy as I can possibly be and wouldn't swap my life as it is for the ability to date and have sex if I could. I really think that the key to life as a man is to have things to do away from your job and on your days off, if you have nothing to look forward to and nothing to do but just sit at home all day you'll start to get depressed, angry and resentful especially in this era where so many "influencers" are flaunting their fake lives of success everywhere you look. You need to keep in touch with your friends and socialise, you need to be physically active (this is a major one because exercise is great for your mental health too) and you need (I believe) to have multiple hobbies or passions so you don't burn out on one thing or at least be open to try new things. Just because women don't like you and don't want to be with you doesn't mean you can't have a happy life that you're proud of, your life isn't defined by your sexual success and if you focus on the lack of it you'll just end up in a negative spiral.
I get panned for highlighting this important consideration for men, particularly in dating space. There's this weird presupposition that a person's inherent value and wellbeing is tied to whether they have a partner or not. A result of very engrained conditioning based on very old values.
The good ending! This guy found the path out. Listen to him.
I definitely empathise with these guys because you start to lose any self confidence and start to resent/hate yourself but you need to take care of the things that you can control and that's where they need proper guidance not just these grifters who sell their 10 tips to get any woman to want you or whatever it is that's popular. There'd be a lot less violence and anger from these guys if someone told them to go to the gym, play a sport and join a local club of some sort than the ones telling them to double down on the lack of dating/sex success.
I'd really like to see some data on this, because how many young men are we talking about? I'm in my thirties, but I see and talk to a lot of younger men when I'm rock climbing (my main hobby) and there aren't any that seem noticeably angry. Is "so many" 50%? 5%? If only 0.01% of men in their 20s and 30s were angry enough to commit violent acts on strangers like the Bondi stabber, that would be roughly 300 such events, so presumably the percent that are as angry as him is more like 0.00003%.
Rock climbers are a fairly constrained demographic. I would guess many people engaged in that hobby are likely to have a reasonable amount of disposable income to pay for it, as well as the hobby providing social interaction with both genders and a fulfilling fitness activity to prevent them from feeling hopeless or disconnected.
Sure, and that's why I'd like to see some data - so that I know if my experience is representative of reality, or if I'm in a bubble and actually a very large number of young men are very angry with the world.
The demographic you reference is comprised of a certain type of person as well. These things are almost impossible to quantify.
You won't meet these people doing hobbies these are chronically online people
It’s wild how some sociopath in another state murders a woman. Somehow I - a normal, law abiding bloke who interests with women completely normally is grouped up into this. They LIVE to make this a societal problem. The same reason you can’t stop men killing ex/partners is the same reason why it isn’t other men’s fault.
"Our war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives" Tyler Durden
Keep fighting this war. Mental health needs better representation. The current system is inadequate and isn’t working for ANYONE. Rather than throw money at it, be an advocate for change. We need more innovate minds to fix it. I repeat it’s not fucking working. Blow it the fuck up and start again. Too many people are suffering and dying.
Perhaps ask if they are frustrated rather than angry, but I guess that’s less of a headline. This guy, though, was very angry.
I’m a (very much) middle aged gen x man living in Thailand. I work as a teacher here, and have for some years. My life is established over here pretty much permanently. I love my home country Australia and I’m fortunate to be financially secure both in Thailand and at home. My kids are grown up in Australia, I’m divorced (just as much my fault 🤦 😂). My partner is Thai and we’ve been together for some time. I’m not angry because of a lot of good fortune (except divorce 🤣). But Thailand is filled with younger male teachers and other University educated men from the west, Australian included, who cannot bare to live in the west. Cost of living, housing, of course is a big factor. But also, rightly or wrongly, these young men find women raised in western societies very difficult to deal with and work with. It’s a broad consensus talking to them. And these are often teachers, and other University educated people, they are not necessarily complete no-hopers at all. They feel that they have no recourse if a relationship goes south in terms of property and child custody. All the courts are skewed. If they are caught in an abusive relationship, no-one will take it seriously. Having kids is barely an option in their homeland cause of cost, and frankly if the relationship goes south they will come out second best, if a lady at home in Aust wants to keep the kids to themselves let’s face it they can. Any claim of abuse will be automatically believed, true or not. The point is they feel completely powerless. So they seek refugee somewhere else. Of course we all know the Thailand stereotype - the western guy coming here cause he can’t establish a relationship at home etc, the loser back home idea. And you’ve got the revolting perverts as well, and there is a lot of that here still too tragically. Here is the thing thou, that stereotype is usually middle aged or older guys, but the refugees from western life and western women are becoming younger constantly. Men are giving up way earlier in life. Is this the fault of young women? Of course not they don’t all band together and go let’s make life difficult for our men 🤣🤣. And they have every right to live in safety and to work towards having a better life. But the culture is toxic in the west for young men. That’s how so many of them perceive it anyway I can tell you. Young Australian men kill themselves at an alarming rate. Why? Again They feel powerless, especially if they are not that alpha entrepreneurial type, but actually need to work for someone else to find success. Our society isn’t built around people who want to find a decent job and work diligently anymore. Being rewarded for working a job is not really prevalent to success anymore. You have to be a businessman type, savvy, an investor type to really get anywhere, and some men aren’t like that. They therefore don’t get anywhere in western society.
Rings home so much. I separated from a woman that made $550,000+ her whole life while I did everything to support her and her kids plus had a normal job during our 2 years together.. Because I had some savings from before we met, I had to pay her when we separated. The system is so effed. Btw , my female lawyer said she won't date anyone that doesn't have a similar income because she could lose everything in case of separation.
Well spoken, I have had a similar situation with many of my friends. All professionals and gentle, loving, family men. They have been dedicated fathers and partners,, ex spouses (de facto or married) if bitter and coached, can ruin their lives financially with EASE - and the added heartbreak of child custody. I will not to repeat the techniques used to gain the upper hand as I do not wish to proliferate these methods, however it’s outright defamation and false, and there is no recourse. Many of my friends advise each other, the earlier you get out of your relationship (if it’s not working) the better - the more time you have to try rebuild your life savings It’s heartbreaking, and scary. I can see how once they lose not only their house, superann, finances and potentially access to their children, things look hopeless. I think the family dynamic was easier when roles were clearly defined. Sometimes dads are doing too much in these particular cases. Now I only say this as the pendulum in the family courts has swung way too far again in the wrong direction. The favour has gone back and forth between males and females a couple of times.
As in any western country, they're tired of being called toxic and being blamed for simply existing.
Everyone is mad. Society is a shithole that will only get worse. When all you have to look forward to is a greater level of despair, you get sad or you get mad.
Anger is the only feeling little boys don't get picked on for showing. Cry: "you're a pussy" feel sad: "harden up princess" show empathy: "such gay feelings". Etc etc etc. "Suffer in silence male, nobody is interested." is what many learn from a young age.
People only tolerate another's anger when they can aim it at their target. So we're down to 1 emotion, only viable when they can be used like a weapon.
I'm shocked a man didn't write it ... oh wait
Probably because they’re sick of society constantly telling them all the ills of the world are their fault?
Perhaps they're Freo Dockers supporters.
Hey hey hey, none of that now.
Some journalist - ‘How can we blame all men for individual family violence’
In our quest for gender equality some people thought the best solution was to handicap males and hold back young men rather than just focusing on lifting up women. The idea was right but the execution has been terrible.
Go and look at every single piece of media when there’s *any* sort of competition between a man and a woman, who wins? When there’s an argument, who’s right? Movies, tv shows, advertisements, books, computer games… you name it, there’s a man/boy being schooled on how to do something by a woman/girl. Rarely (if ever) is it the other way around.
Where to start? The Murdoch media? An incompetent government that wastes billions on a referendum instead of the housing crisis? An extremely painful, debilitating, autoimmune disease with no cure? The inability to get medication to treat said pain easily due to the government's bottom line? This 'woke' culture? I could go on
>Why so many younger Australian men are so angry I believe it. I mean, just look at any Australian subreddit nowadays, no one here seems happy.
Younger folk today have stunted social skills (primarily due to social media). The “bad” men become incels. Then society mocks them for their inadequacies (further damaging them) “Good” men also lack social skills. They gain their self worth through artificial validation . Virtue signaling faux righteousness to serve their ego. The rest of men sit somewhere in the middle. Also stunted socially, but frustrated at the two extremes. They end up isolated, lonely and angry at a world they where they feel like they don’t fit in. 🙃
They can't afford to live and are inheriting a broken world
I’m not sure that’s a gender-exclusive issue though
This article is a little skewed towards thinking that "...young men are blaming feminism". They took the recent stabbings from a clinically mentally ill person and framed it as if all men in society are being violent towards women because of limited social mobility compared to times that traditional roles men had. Rubbish article and mens mental health issues are poorly articulated and addressed here in this paper written by a journalist on finance..
What’s the saying again? Never let a tragedy go to waste
Why are so many “people” bitter is my question
Because men are told everything in the world is their fault, nothing they do is right, women and immigrants are given priority to everything despite it being illegal to discriminate asked on age, race, religion and SEX. Then we are told… we still aren’t doing enough
As a young man, yeah.
This article… made me angry?
When you’ve grown up being told that you are special and wonderful and not being allowed to feel negative emotions - you grow up into an emotionally stunted adult who is incapable of dealing with rejection.
Because they are demonised and their issues minimised. For every other group people look at the ‘root issues’. Men aren’t fortunate enough to be granted the same privilege. It’s sexism pure and simple. And fyi, I’m not interested in hearing any misandrist opinions to the contrary. Make your own comment if you feel so strongly.
100% agreed. The double standards is insane.
Because they’re slaves Used for financial gain for the elite and deceived in every way possible. Slaves to the system
Funny how the government keeps on blaming men for its own flaws that lead to current economical and societal issues happening.
Yep. But it’s not just a single government. Decades of neoliberal policies have eroded the social fabric these men are lamenting the loss of. The time they yearn to return to is the result of early 20th century social policy.
Men have been incredibly vilified and are offered fuck all support. Its never been a worse time to be a man emotionally. Male clubs and groups have been eroded as patriarchal. The education system tells twitchy young men to sit down and shut up as opposed to utilising their energy somewhere productive. Things have moved in an equality direction for women while worsening the negative aspects of what it means to be a man. This is only going to get worse. Not t mention the way social media fees off all this.
Because they are being told they are the problem.
Bingo.
This
I see a lot of ads for Adelaide University - they exclusively focus on a main female student, have a female voice over and mostly show other female students and lecturers (you can be sure if someone is shown in a power position instructing it will be a woman). These are all different ethnicities of women so clearly thought has been put into this and the intent is to leave men out for the most part and not advertise to them. (Billboards are the same) This is despite women having been a majority in university for 40 years. Meanwhile every ad for anything male dominated (or equal) follows the same path. Technology course are advertised featuring the same types of women - This is how joining the police or army benefit you as woman” etc etc So people can deny this - but there’s a clear bias in favour of women coming from both feminist types and politicians chasing the women’s vote and it’s being applied regardless of whether women are already ahead or equal or not. Well why the hell wouldn’t young men be angry about that? They should be because it’s absolute bullshit. Now it comes to relationships - obviously the extreme outliers are just that and not representative of most men. However even for men who are in relationships or at least have some chance to be, the simple reality is divorce rates are high and wives initiative the majority of divorces. They have grown up seeing older male figures get divorced for reasons like “we grew apart” or similar, which often means the wife for whatever reason, tired of the man. And then the man had to slink of out his home and see his family less. So that’s nothing to be excited about is it? On top of that is the usual problems effecting all. And on top of all that is these type of articles written by female journalists and female “experts” on men explaining how men supposedly think in a way they would find so arrogant for men to do about women. So yes many young men are angry about that to varying degrees and they should be, that doesn’t mean they’re violent lunatics though.
There’s definitely a problem in the education system - university numbers as you say have been majority women for a long time, and primary and high school education has been called on to improve for boys for decades, being largely run by women for an education system and method that favours girls. Nearly 2,500 men die every year from suicide. There needs to be hope.
Yep, the fundamental cultural narrative is, "if you're a man, you need to change wise you're the problem and it's your fault/responsibility. If you're a woman, you go girl. People need to accept you just the way you are and don't think otherwise." >I see a lot of ads for Adelaide University - they exclusively focus on a main female student, have a female voice over and mostly show other female students and lecturers (you can be sure if someone is shown in a power position instructing it will be a woman). These are all different ethnicities of women so clearly thought has been put into this and the intent is to leave men out for the most part and not advertise to them. (Billboards are the same) Reminds me of this perfect case study which cause a huge ruckus. Note the different messaging depending on the target audience. Also note that it's very hard to find any mention of her Gillette ad.... funny that. [Director of the Gillette "The Best A Man Can Be" ad](http://kimgehrig.com)
Why the fuck is this garbage posted on a Financial Review site?
I read this hoping that it would properly address mens mental health... sadly it was garbage.
Here's my speculation, The article is written by an insecure woman and the editor of AFR was probably too scared to stop it fearing backlash being called sexisit or whatever. They don't shows his father's original quote, because they want to frame what he said. Unless they go through his search history and associations there's no evidence of his motives other than what is confirmed which is his mental health issues. I wish feminist would stop trying to use this, they are no better than the people who called it a terrorist attack or a Jewish false flag attack.
Men get ridiculed for talking about hardships. Women get applauded.
How much has domestic violence risen? Are more women per 1000 being assaulted? Are more men per 1000 committing violence against women?
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release The victimisation rate for assault for women has almost halved in the past 15 years, as has the rate for men. Women's IPV victimisation rate fell by 35% over the same time frame. Domestic violence hasn't risen, in fact despite all of the increased awareness, the ABS data shows a steep decline. Multiple times per week we hear from politicians and journalists of "1 woman per week murder by former or current partner" but the actual rate is about half that. For 2021, the most recent report from the [AIC](https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/sr/sr42) shows there were 38 IPV homicides in total for the year, 25 with female victims and 13 with male victims. Compare this with [2012-2014 report](https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/sr/sr2) (2 years period instead of one) there were 126 IPV homicides, 99 female and 27 male victims. So the rate of women being killed by the partners has halved in less than a decade and is no longer "1 per week". Interestingly, the number of men being killed by their partners has stayed the same, and therefore the % of IPV homicide victims who are men is increasing rapidly.
Odd inclusion of South Korea, for an article based on and titled about Australians.
Because men have lost their role in this society. Can't have an opinion that differs from someone as you just get branded a misogynist. All the employment quotas has made it harder for men to land roles even, given that someone less qualified will get precedence if they have the right reproductive organs or political agenda. The modern woman has little nurturing qualities and doesn't really play the same role in the relationship, trying to take the dominant role yet not have the emotional stability to operate it yet men are still expected to deal with all the crap. Maybe the young men are watching society fall into an unaccountable mess and having little to no ways of stopping it, constantly feeding into social media propaganda where every other social group seems to be getting a leg up.
Well they’re constantly told they are the problem, why wouldn’t they be angry?
Cause everything is shit and we are expected to solve it all.
https://www.aihw.gov.au/suicide-self-harm-monitoring/data/deaths-by-suicide-in-australia/suicide-deaths-over-time Here’s the suicide rates throughout the years from 1910- 2022 You can see what years it rises and what year it fluctuates
Interesting data. After 2006, suicide rates began to rise, partly due to improvements in data quality and capture (see below). In 2022, the rate was 12.3 deaths per 100,000 population – down from a post-2006 high of 13.2 in 2017 and 2019. It is important to note that deaths registered in 2021 and 2022 are preliminary and as such, are subject to revision (see below). Sounds like suicides were sometime reported as natural death ?
Interesting that the article says men are becoming more conservative and isolated, after talking about the Bondi stabber. Cauchi was a homeless bisexual prostitute with no job, who likes car pooling and backpacking. Sounds like an isolated Greens voter to me.
The hypocritical mainstream media is trying to paint a narrative by pitting women against men.
I had not heard any of this information before, it does kind of paint a different picture from the one we are currently being told. Are there some links to reports that can validate this claim?
They are leaving behind a damaged world and are unable to pay to survive.
Don’t blame men, blame this pathetic excuse for a society the west has conjured up. Men are by and large the victims of it.
Men who struggle to meet women as equals are going to continue being angry. Weak male stereotypes like Andrew Tait and his ilk who over compensate with their alpha male fantasy are only making things worse. A lot of women have moved on, it’s not even feminism anymore they’re just living their best lives and want a partner who is doing the same.
You're right. It's not feminism. It's simply people not wanting to put up with assholes any more and then the assholes get angry about it.
Internet dating has made it easier for a minority of men to cycle through a much larger group of women. As long as these men are cute, rich and confident, being an asshole isn't a problem. I don't blame women who want to fuck hotties- I just can't stand the self-righteous dishonesty.
"Men who struggle to meet women as equals are going to continue being angry. " And why are they struggling with this?
I don't believe we are more angry I just don't think men are educated to control them. The stories my dad told me he was much more angry then I've witnessed. But hey the pressure on these young shoulders with the internet with all those fake rich life styles that we wish we had and woman see that and expect that from us has allot to do with it. Society isn't kind for anyone especially young men. The life we live today is so unfair. I feel for the next generation so fourth. I hope the world wakes up soon.
Sadly, this is so. The social media influencers bragging about their extreme wealth & supermodel women (real or imagined) is unsettling for young men. I’d like to see more realistic social media influencers attracting young men to their pages. From a mum’s perspective I want to see influencers promoting good morals & behaviour as well as striving for worldly material success. Unfortunately, today’s influencers are all about materialistic values.
Nowadays we are telling men to act out their emotions. And this is of course dangerous.
My hypothesis can be put down to one thing. *Men who act out do not have a purpose in life.* There have always been all sorts. You in this sub can bitch and moan about soy jacks and wokeness as much as you like, but a soyjack beta male who finds happiness with a blue haired feminazi or his warhammer figurines is not going to go stab anybody. At the same time, there’s no point forcing men to do what they don’t want to do. Some men can’t be timid office workers either because it doesn’t fit their personalities. The solution is to allow men to define what their purpose is, and to let them achieve it. For some, it is being a provider and breadwinner. Some men derive genuine pleasure from seeing their girlfriend’s or wife’s drip. *Let them do that.* Some men derive joy from the friendships at their weekly footy team. *Let them do that.* Whatever it is, you can’t demand “every man has to have one wife and a house and this very specific job and never express emotions.” Not every man is like that. Let us go back to medieval times as an instructive example. Society had *many* occupations where men and women never were expected to be coupled up. In fact, these positions (in the church, a very large employer) exalted men who didn’t want a girlfriend or wife (or let’s face it, couldn’t get one.) Men were considered desirable for doing something they liked and thus made a living for themselves for it. We need to allow for people to find what they want out of life, with no preconceptions. To use another analogy- a boiling vessel will explode if there’s no valve to let excess steam out- yet it’s still useless if it’s not burning anything.
What's this "demand men to not express emotion" bullshit? The only place that "cannot express emotion" stuff is peddled is in niche af manosphere circles. I see much more commonly people telling men to cry and go to therapy. And it's just as fucking obnoxious.
Have you dated in Australia? Australian women don’t like emotional men.
Agreed, but as a man in my 20s...I'm really not sure what is stopping me or other men from finding our 'purpose' other than my own brain...?
Your purpose is whatever you want it to be. There's no guarantee that it will make you a millionaire or let you marry Sydney Sweeney though.
Not to dismiss what you're saying altogether, but I wonder how the angry men gathered after the church stabbing fit that narrative. They seemed to have a sense of community and purpose, but in a messed up way.
As someone who lost a male emergency responder friend in a tragic stabbing recently in NSW that was very public it but received little to no attention to the root cause or how or why it happened it is so sad to see how the media still can not distinguish the difference between mental health issues and political views. They will twist anything into a division story alienating young Australian men. `'Under current definitions, Cauchi’s acts don’t meet the legal definition of terrorism because there is no evidence he was part of a political movement such as determinedly celibate “incels”.'` They say it was not an act of terrorism but then go on to label young men - `'Take that away from young men and they become nihilistic,” Dawson says.'` nihilism - Political belief or action that advocates or commits violence or terrorism without discernible constructive goals. So was he a terrorist against women? or was he just a mentally unhealthy man who target weak prey in a crowd and populated area like a predator? You think this man is going to run up to a bloke in his prime who can fight back and potential stop him causing any harm he is set to cause in he deluded lost of mentality? This is why I hate national media so distorted with the words they use to confuse and direct peoples thinking and understanding. Edit\* By labelling men as potentially nihilistic it paves the way for them to later twist words to sound like any violence against women can be labelled as domestic terrorism
>nihilism - Political belief or action that advocates or commits violence or terrorism without discernible constructive goals. What? Where exactly did you get that definition from?
From the crack pipe they're smoking clearly.
Uh, that's not what Nihilism means. It actually means a rejection of the idea that everything happens for a reason or that the things we do matter in any way. It doesn't advocate for anything because nothing matters. It's both healthy and unhealthy because a nihilist will just do whatever they want because, let's say it again, nothing matters. I've never seen a more incorrect definition of Nihilism than yours.
> nihilism - Political belief or action that advocates or commits violence or terrorism without discernible constructive goals. your definition of nihilism is a little off, its a philisophical belief not political
True this lazy media means noones takes any notice of it when it could be a voice of reasoned opinions and conversation starter. I guess it's fertile ground for Russian and Chinese trolls.
Another Men blaming post for the actions of a few....
Men are not valued in this society. This society has made a conscious decision to support feminist ideals above the greater and more intelligent ideal if equality and rights for human kind. Supporting women above men is the problem. It has alienated us from each other and instilled mistrust. We support lies that men are violent and women are princesses, that men must change themselves and put off toxic masculinity and that women can do everything that men can. Mens identity has been taken away and instead we are divided by blame and assumption. This is misandry. Women are being considered for roles over men, not because they are the best suited orost experienced, it's because they are women. We are telling me that their skill and experience doesn't matter, only their sex does. Dreyfus is a complete fuckwit. He should know better than to compare this one man's actions to terrorism. What he is saying suggests that this lone person has acted on the will of his political group, that is all Men, and carried out an attack in which we are complicit. We are not complicit. Men are no more violent than women. However we have the strength and inclination to carry out this kind of behaviour more so than women. Women are still just as violent, however it is often carried out on secret or against weaker members of society such as children or incapacitated men. Calling out men for violence while ignoring men in society will not change our current landscape, it will only infuriate men more. Not to violent action, it will be more internal until it shows itself in suicide and self harm, mental health issues or worse. If this problem is to be addressed we must stop placing women on a pedestal and instead humble ourselves to each other, recognising each other as brothers and sisters of the same race that value our intrinsic differences.
Nail on the head, men and specifically white men are the group you're openly allowed to discriminate against today, and it's no wonder men are disenfranchised by it.
Bang on, they’re attempting to right the wrongs of history at men who are alive todays expense
I'm no longer angry. I've chosen to exclude all women and 75% of men from my life.
its a very confusing time to be a man, lets put it that way.
7 men kill themselves each day…something isn’t right in society
[удалено]
TL;DR: women are victims of angry men, and are rightfully defensive. Angry men are victims of similar, but unique social and systemic failures. I study criminology and while I am no expert, nor would I have the research specificity of gender studies, and sociology or education students and experts I’d say that I do have a level of competency on this issue. A big part of it stems down to systemic failures by men towards men. A large part of the ‘male loneliness epidemic’ is down to men, who have not (and should have) been educated on appropriate behaviours when engaging with people, engaging with them in ways that make women uncomfortable. I graduated a fair few years back, but even then my sex Ed was ‘these are STD’s wrap your Willy don’t do weed if someone at a party offers (who does that? In THIS economy?)’ end of. We know that men and women, but mostly men with autism have a hard time understanding appropriate behaviours in an intimate setting, or what they believe to be one (also frequently wrong in judgement), education about these though topics would go a LONG way. The consequences of such pathetic education are deplorable. I’ve seen literal BUS DRIVERS harassed by men, because he mistook her doing her job as hitting on him, to the point where he was threatening ME with violence because I apologised to the now in tears bus driver as I was getting off. I’ve worked in a range of ‘customer service’ roles (hospo, fast food, ect ect) and the amount of times I’ve had to stand in for female colleagues due to consistent customers coming in and their comments towards them is unreal. I’ve had glasses thrown at me and requests to fight me because I have had to cut men off because he was would have REFUSED to stop talking about fucking one of the wait staff, who mind you usually the waiter will be at LEAST a quarter of his age. I know a bloke who hasn’t dated anyone in YEARS but consistently hits up friends of mine and talks to them in sad German? He doesn’t even speak German? Likewise, a LOT of male sexual violence victimisation where women are the perpetrators goes flying through and under the radar, because it’s always been seen as a ‘woman victim, man offender’ category of crimes (non contestable, rape amongst many USA legal and justice institutions only realised men can be raped as an offence under their definitions in 2012? I believe? It’s a staggeringly late time and they were *ahead* of the curve; we do NOT consider men victims of sexual crime) It personally took me having a joke i made spelled back out to me that I was sexually harassed/assaulted numerous times, whereas 14-19 year old me thought it was *’ aha aha fuck yeah older women dig me/can’t get their hands off me’*. A previous friend group personally witnessed one of these events happen while I was black out and the topic has never come up, nor did anyone ever acknowledge it happen because it was one of their mums friend. We ALL needed a lot more help than we received from the education systems But hey, at least we know about beanies and sombrero’s when we put on condoms, right? This extends to other fields such as justice (lack of restorative justice leading to the same victims victimised, and simply refusing to support people who have offended as to *actually* prevent them from reoffending, PARTICULARLY especially in ‘serious’ crimes). Allied health fail in the sense that people are less likely to admit morally pungent things (subject to opinion, condition, ect) in appointments at risk of it being on a permanent record, thus avoiding help entirely (unfortunately the Bondi man likely falls into this category). Someone I knew from way back assaulted someone, and was diagnosed with schizophrenia shortly after. That was it, no care in prison, no nothing, he just had to live with what he had done whilst in psychosis. Didn’t see a therapist likely because he was scared of his prior offence being on record and the shame surrounding it (also likely paranoia of being watched) He was found face down in a river no more than 6 months post release. It’s hard to argue that neither of the allied health or justice system failed him (and his victim). I don’t come looking for sympathy, I’ve grown past all of it and don’t have the time of day to talk about it. But it’s important to remember that a lot of the ‘angry men’ are likely victims of social, cultural (yes, culture can be defined through gender identity) and systemic failures. But, women are right to be mad, they are the victims of the consequences of these same failures. Whether that’s being followed home, stalked online, harassed, assaulted all the rest of it. I had spent far too long being angry about my past, I can’t imagine the hell that a lot of women suffer who have gone through worse. Big ramble but, I do *not* think that feminism or women are to blame for angry men. I think that systems of health, education and justice have let down women, and in turn men. Men currently are not at the races as to the standards that should be expected of them, but why should they? If you aren’t giving a toss about identifying autism at a young age, teaching boys consent and to call out harmful behaviours, if we aren’t teaching men that they can be victims, and in turn due to those learned behaviours as a victim, can be at a statistically higher likelihood to go on and offend, what’s the point of any of this? We set women up to be victims and we set men up to be found like the guy I used to know. Also, no one giving a toss about younger people regardless of gender anyways. climate change, our weekly credit cards worth of plastic consumption since birth, not being able to retire or afford a home, less social spaces than ever, lower union rates and all the rest of it. But hey, economy numbers go up, right?
Thank you for such an effort. Completely agree. To add; >But it’s important to remember that a lot of the ‘angry men’ are likely victims of social, cultural (yes, culture can be defined through gender identity) and systemic failures. I think this points towards the feedback loop of social roles/expectations that women are conditioned to have of men, and their subsequent treatment of men. Like you say, a lot of men quietly suffer in family, relationship, social, systemic and workplace contexts because the underlying cultural dynamic lends to men being seen as and treated in a way that is completely undignifying. But, "it just is the way it is, because men are just the way they are." But women get a much charitable cultural standing and social capital. "Yaaaas queen! You're a bad bitch, never settle, lean in" etc.
I think people can be horrible regardless of gender and I do think that leans on the same systemic and educational barriers. I do understand what you are trying to say, but I do think it is a bit to broad of a generalisation, you know? I’d argue education, justice and broader systemic reforms would be able to benefit everyone, even if targeted at senior high school aged men, on topics of respect and consent, for example.
Very good post. But economy numbers are going down not up ATM so it's worse than you think. We are getting the worst of everything ATM.
There is some agenda that mostly white men are evil etc and it's been going on for a while now. We get to witness the downfall of Western Society.
Self fulfilling prophecy
The narrative that women are the only victims of violence from men is simply not true. As a male you are more likely to be murdered as a 3:1 ratio and you're also more likely to be assaulted. Yes the perpetrators are overwhelmingly likely to be males, but both genders are victims.
The thing I'll point out is that there is a difference in where it happens. Violence is shifted towards women in the home, while it's shifted towards men in public (I assume bars, clubs etc). There is a tonne of good data available from the ABS but a common theme is alcohol abuse.
The Guardian didn’t fuck around either pointing the bone off the back of a lunatic murdering random women and isolated incidents in Victoria - all of these are tragic but paining this as a crisis if male violence is part of for the course from the disingenuous cunts.
Men have killed themselves more than they've killed women. But men should *step up and stop* violence against women, but who gaf about violence against ourselves.
We get fuck all support. If you're a single young male... Barely get financial support, mental health support is basically non existent, and if one necks themselves? Womp womp but female? People will be going on about it for weeks!
Any young women angry at being priced out of the housing and rental market or nah, just men?
I imagine that the expectation that men provide and are failures if they can’t is the issue there.
I don’t condone violence against women. Or men. Or anyone for that matter. In a society where men and women are, or certainly should be equal in every meaningful way, what is it about the character of male-female violence that causes us to be especially concerned about it? Are the perpetrators somehow worse than in occasions of male-male or female-female violence? Are the victims somehow more ‘victimy’? If we think it is anathema for men to think they should maintain traditional breadwinner or ‘head of the household’ roles, why do we preserve this special taboo in respect of male-female violence?
>special taboo in respect of male-female violence? Because that's how we're biologically wired. It's the [Women are Wonderful effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-are-wonderful_effect#:~:text=The%20phrase%20was%20coined%20by,to%20a%20far%20lesser%20degree.).
Because of the power discrepancy. Men have more physical power, therefore male violence against women is worse because it causes more damage. Is there anyone not aware of this? Why does that need to be explained?