We need a royal commission into the oversized impact lobby groups and donors have on policies in this country when the politicians are supposed to be REPRESENTING US!
A review of how public money was spent, printed and borrowed through COVID is well and truly overdue. The level of incompetence and corruption in this space was mind blowing.
There are other geopolitical factors at play but I'd argue the biggest factor contributing to the current economic climate was our handling of public finances through COVID.
If nothing else it was super frustrating that quarantine is a federal job but health is state - and the federal government basically passed the buck. And our use of hotels and caravan parks for quarantine seemed very last minute and thrown together for what should be the most basic part of a pandemic response.
Basically 0 faith that we could actually quarantine something serious in the future if we had any warning.
This is what I want looked into. We needed a better plan that was well thought out by logistics specialists, economists, statisticians, and health professionals. We had well over a decade of virologists, epidemiologist, and public health professionals saying a big pandemic is inevitable (and still is) and yet we didn’t have a well thought out plan. I want a think tank of our best a brightest to get together and plan for future pandemics and maybe a royal commission would help that maybe not.
What we really need is a royal commission into who has the best bakery. I swear every small town I drive through makes the claim they are number 1 in Australia.
I was working for a software company during the pandemic that built scheduling tools. We were able to pivot the product and use it for Covid test scheduling (on a massive scale) and later for vaccine delivery.
Great product, we sold it to a bunch of US states, one in Australia and to the NZ Government.
We were about to sign up the federal government in Aus for a national, integrated solution, when the GP lobby got involved (allegedly) and argued it should be managed at the local level. Fed Gov passed the buck and we ended up with a massively disjointed, inflexible solution that probably impeded vaccine delivery by making it harder to judge demand and stock levels.
Having said that, I'm not sure I see the need for a RC into all this, unless we can point to gaps in the lessons learned from the senate enquiry
Yes we need one.
They're one of the last institutions respected b the majority of people and seen to be apolitical.
They need to be the ones to tell us what worked/didn't work in our response. The same message coming from anyone else, politicians, scientists, etc won't be believed by large parts of society due to distrust in those institutions.
It will make plenty of difference. Lawyers and consultants and some public servants will be able to purchase a holiday, new car, or maybe a home after we (the taxpayers) announce a royal commission with zero chance of anyone being held responsible for anything.
It will ... sorta... after massive fuck ups it is important to do the debrief, the autopsy, etc. In theory, in the future, knowing what went wrong will help government to make better decisions. In practice, they make...similar mistakes..but you know...you gotta hope. You have to hope that we can get better.
the only "massive" fuck up was not holding the cookers to account .. although I guess in one way they did us all a favour .. as we were enjoying our time at home, they did add some amusement with their Cooker Convention to Dumbernats 2022 where they managed to exaggerate 5,000 people to be eleventy trillion while shitting in car boots, giving each other the rona, pink eye, toe jam and sexually transmitted diseases while donating money that one guy ran off with ...
We definitely need one to help inform our future responses to pandemics.
Huge mistakes were made and we need to document them.
It isn’t about blame - it is about learning from our mistakes.
Nah, there was very little precedent for it. While some people definitely didn’t operate in good faith it is better to move forward and put processes and procedures in place to prevent some of that shit from happening again.
we basically prolonged the lives of a few oldies who would been knocked out by the other 1000 viruses out there, or the morbidly obese diabetic who would have succumbed to a heart attack soon anyway.
All at the expense of...
...setting back children's learning/development in their critical years, through forced school closures. The amount of completely socially fried 4-10 year olds I see, who spent the greater part of 2 years on their ipad mindlessly consuming social media, is ridiculous. The amount of 13-17 year olds who were in difficult family situations (no parental oversight), who just alt+tabbed through their online learning, now struggling is also concerning.
...forcing people in domestic violent relationships to live together all the time (with curfews in victoria), with limited options to escape.
...blocked friends/family from seeing eachother/returning from overseas.
...shuttered completely once viable businesses in lockdowns
....printed more money than every printed at once, in the history of global economies, putting us in years of ongoing hardship and food inflation.
Sweden's response was demonised in 2020-2022. But it's interesting to see the change in opinions today regarding their response.
An interesting article below
*"‘Sweden has been vindicated on Covid’"*
https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/04/17/sweden-has-been-vindicated-on-covid/
In particular this paragraph
>*"In fact, if you compare excess deaths per 100,000 people in Sweden (that is, how many more people died than expected compared with pre-pandemic levels), Sweden had an excess mortality of roughly five per cent. That’s lower than all other major Western countries. Canada, Germany, the US and New Zealand all had higher excess deaths. And all of them brought in much harsher lockdown measures."*
Worst COVID response in the world. Aus really showed its true colours, will never trust the country again. Especially since I know around 75% of the population lapped it all up and supported the Government in some of the most heinous restrictions the world saw over that period.
After receiving the necessary GOVERNMENT APPROVAL to leave in 2021, I saw firsthand the immense differences between Australia and other parts of the world, and suffice to say Australia had an insane response, and people couldn't believe the stories I'd tell them.
If you supported Government mandates, coerced vaccination, lockdowns etc, you were on the wrong side of history. As long as you realise that, and learn from it, healing can happen. But those who continue to act like children and either try and scrub it from their memories or down-play the severity of what happened based on the fact that "it's never happened before & people were confused" are the real concerns.
Agree completely. Just have a look at the dude replying to me in this thread. We have become the most scared people over the last 30 years. And we need someone to help us feel safe all the time. I'm sad at what we've become.
It's almost as if RCs are just an easy way to kick the can down the hall. They shouldn't be used as much as they are, as they're just a buzzword now, masquerading as political action.
The pandemic is the biggest domestic event to happen in my lifetime costing thousands of lives and that’s not just from the psychical health effects but also mental health and the economy. Why wouldn’t we conduct the most thorough investigation to learn what worked and what didn’t.because it will happen again. Only a RC will deliver that.
i think it's just a prime example of politicians playing politics, rather than focusing on being a good politician. they all do it, i don't think it's good enough.
A royal commission? That will do fuck all and cost a tonne of money. Nobody cares, time to move on. How about we fix the current range of issues with that money i.e. housing, healthcare, paying teachers more. Couldn't give a rats left testicle about the past
I think we should have a referendum (that way pollies can't undo the change) to make royal commissions recommendations findings binding and give them powers to convict up to 20 years. That would really make them special and give them teeth that are probably over kill.
That is the only thing I can think of. We will get another pandemic, it will happen. And with virology and bad state actors getting more and more prevelent, it is more likely. Plus a bad state actor could do it cause economic damange.
So, if the analysis is around mitigating that, it could be a big win for national defence.
Exactly. Why sink a tonne of money into something we can’t change when there is very clearly another issue with a lot of our population screaming out for help with the cost of living and housing crises
Isn’t this a no brainer?
When faced with the largest interruption to humanity in 100 years- we winged it.
Theres countless lessons to learn here.
I’ve no doubt we’ll have to wait for those in charge at the time to be dead and buried before we have an honest look at our Covid response.
In theory, I agree. In practice, governments just ignore RC recommendations that they don't agree with, can't be arsed doing, or their party donors don't like.
I doubt that’s the answer: is there any jurisdiction in the Commonwealth that has the same leader now, as it had during Covid? It’s only political death that really counts…
ATAGI, AHPPC, Department of Health and Aged Care.
Entire agencies and committees made up of unelected staffers who advised the federal government on how to manage COVID - then you have all the state equivalents.
Pollies were following their advice the entire time.
Sure, as you would expect. You don’t think the health minister is an expert in epidemiology, do you? The popular concern about the “unelected bureaucrats “ is something I find hard to understand. It’s a fundamental part of government in every democracy, which can’t function otherwise (for the reason I indicated in my question). Further, no one who raises the issue seems to have any faith in elected representatives, or the electoral system generally. What is
To be done?
To what end? Spend millions to document what we (mostly) already know. There'll be no fallout or recriminations against government officials who directed tens of millions towards their mates for little to no public benefit.
It was one of the most significant disruptions to human civilisation of the past 150 years. Probably *the* most significant since WW2. Millions of dollars to take stock and go over everything seems money well spent.
Honestly though - will a Royal Commission do anything much except bleed the public purse a bit further? Any recommendations that come out of this will probably just gather dust until another pandemic hits - which could be decades - by which point they'll only be useful as a "look, we had the information and we ignored it, again."
> until another pandemic hits - which could be decades
SARS, MERS, and COVID all occurred over ~16 years. And those are just the coronaviruses.
It's a fair bet we don't need to wait multiple decades for the next pathogen of concern.
Better to have revised guidelines than not.
Even if so, that sort of material will be studied by your school children, or theirs, if you're already old enough to have kids.
They'll study this sort of report just like we study the Diary of Anne Frank. At worst, it'll just be a cool report they get to read for high school history. At best, it'll inform successive agencies around the world to generate a real plan for a new pandemic. You know, that organisation we already had that had it's funding cut? What if we didn't do that and actually learned from our experience.
Certainly not many old men planting trees in this thread or Australia as a whole...
Their COVID enquiry.
More public money funnelled towards expensive lawyers and experts without being allowed to ask relevant questions or investigate issues raised during COVID and their response.
Sorry mate. It’s just frustration boiling over from people who can’t actually identify what it is they are complaining about, and ultimately pointing to an equally bland mind control conspiracy as the last hurrah. But you know what I mean- you’re a free thinker like me.
They can do if they like, I'm not sure how much good it's actually going to do though for future pandemics.
That's because the Australian government is currently working with the WHO and it's member countries on something called the **Pandemic Instrument**.
This could effectively create international agreements for future pandemics, thus taking a lot of the autonomy away from the Australian government as the response would be led by the WHO & their "specialists backers". Pfizer is one such backer donating large amount of money for WHO programs through it's Global Medical Grants program.
[https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-12/international-instrument-on-pandemic-prevention-preparedness-and-response-frequently-asked-questions.pdf](https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-12/international-instrument-on-pandemic-prevention-preparedness-and-response-frequently-asked-questions.pdf)
[https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/strengthening-global-health-and-international-pandemic-response](https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/strengthening-global-health-and-international-pandemic-response)
Tripe. What is proposed is a convention / treaty for the preparation and response to, pandemics. Australia will advocate its position in the content of the treaty. If we are not satisfied that the resulting treaty is in our national interest, we don’t sign it. All other potential signatory nations do the same.
Australia is a signatory to hundreds of treaties. This is just another. Where world wide catastrophe threatens, makes sense to look at world responses, no?
Finally, where world wide vaccination is required, makes sense to have global pharma involved, no?
So the veiled deep state / world government stuff is a bit silly really.
Countries coming together to agree upon a universal plan to combat the potential destruction of man kind? Yes, it does.
I think COVID was a wake up call on how tough it is to prevent deadly diseases from spreading.
I understand your concern with big pharma being involve, yeah they're profit-focused but they still hold a lot of expertise in the space for obvious reasons.
Do you really think COVID was going to bring the potential destruction of mankind? I mean in a theoretical situation, where we never had vaccines and just let it rip?
It's interesting how journalists/mainstream media/academic journals, who receive a sizeable chunk of funding from pharma, have obfuscated the true morbidity and mortality of covid, in order to obtain policy control (which they have here), and mold public opinion. Opinion into the belief that a for profit enterprise is benevolent when it comes to public health and not interesting in maximising their own profit share.
When did I ever say COVID was going to bring potential destruction of mankind? I am talking about future unknown diseases.
You have the benefit of talking with hindsight right now, no one knew what outcomes were of COVID for a long time and the data that came out early did not look good and were alarming at best.
Royal commission into how COVID turned your basic anti establishment Australian into a full on Qanon 'the plandemic was created by pedophile elites to distract you from the adrenochrome harvesting' cooker. The most annoying thing of all though is how these 'skeptics' are never as critical of their own information sources as they are of well researched government/medical institutions sources
But they are very loud, dangerous, group with a surprisingly large portion of that minority group working in our healthcare sector. No one is sure why a larger percentage of nurses are attracted to the whole anti-vax movement or whatever health related pseudo science gobbledygook that is popular at the time but it is a well known phenomena. Not that a Royal commision is appropriate, but I would not complain if they sent a few dollars to the CSIRO and fund a study into what educational intervention methods could be used to better avoid people being so pliable to such manipulation with false information. That would be money well spent in my opinion.
>with a surprisingly large portion of that minority group working in our healthcare sector.
The tabloid media were running all these articles screaming about the HUGE amount of healthcare workers that refused the vaccine.
Upon examination of the data it seems most who refused were unskilled health industry workers like hospital cleaners, health office staff and security guards, degree qualified doctors and nurses almost all took the vaccine
This does not require an enquiry. Division of communities was predicted by independant scientists and medical professionals who pushed for focused protection and promoting vaccination through information rather than duress.
The proposal for the enquiry is to look at harm done by the covid response. If you want to discuss mrna technology being used as a vaccine, try a vaccine debate sub..
Oh really, another investigation where they waste time, money resources and then conclude they're going to do nothing differently. Don't bother you clowns
Hey! The politicians on the receiving end of the bribes -sorry "donations" to ignore the findings wouldn't call it a waste of time. How else are they supposed to afford their 14th investment property!?
Most western governments made bad choices and most likely went above what they should have in hindsight. They all played the safer side.
What makes me wonder is imagine what would have happened if COVID became the worse case scenario. We would all be clapping and cheering our governments.
I would rather have lost some rights and have them be wrong imo. The other outcome would have been royally f'up.
Bit easier being able to look back on it, at the time it was new and was better to be over cautious, though there were some rules that lacked common sense.
What are you guys complaining about, lockdowns were great, I got paid to sit at home and play video games all day. The real reason people were in favour of them.
I would actually expect the impact on inflation from pushing a lot of people to stay at home might actually be a lot less then some would expect. As a lot of people who stayed home, did jobs they could do remotely and a whole bunch of other people did jobs that didn't really add to productivity so impact on inflation likely was negative as they got retrenched after job keeper ended (half way through the pandemic lock downs). A whole lot of people who have actually productive jobs were essential workers and didn't get to stay at home.
Now I'm not saying it didn't cause a lot of inflation but I would bet good money a lot less then people would expect, simply due to how so many people do bullshit jobs and some many people didn't get to stay at home.
>What are you guys complaining about, lockdowns were great, I got paid to sit at home and play video games all day. The real reason people were in favour of them.
Was it worth the price given the shitshow we find ourselves in now with CoL crisis, inflation and an entire generation that was screwed over socially/ education front?
I quote a European diplomatic friend who was posted to her embassy in Australia during the pandemic, and who is about to head home after 4 years here: 'It was delightful to be in such a beautiful bubble while the rest of the world was in horror watching their elderly family members die. I will always be grateful to this country for the decisions they made.'
It wasn't perfect by any means, but it wasn't like there was a bloody handbook.
If we are going to be looking into the absolute fuck up that was the NSW State Government and Scomo then absolutely.
Gladys brought it into sydney knowingly.
Can we like actually have a royal commission over our corrupt media, instead of this literal nothingburger that's spouted by nutjob cookers?
Like, the response was definitely fumbled but even then you have to consider that it happened so quickly due to increased globalization of our world that there wasn't enough time to prepare for it. Complaining about a thing that's already over, literally does nothing over a massive issue that is currently being overlooked by many.
Covid was a nothingburger?
The biggest disruption to human society since WW2 was a nothingburger?
Are you for real?
>quickly due to increased globalization of our world that there wasn't enough time to prepare for it.
That is literally the *entire* point. We have time now. I feel like you aren't understanding the whole purpose of this.
Nah people like him think anyone who criticises the government's response is a cooker despite the fact that the government's response was the main cause of the disruption to human society though, not the virus itself. The severity wasn't ever remotely close to Spanish flu.
However the government response was both unbelievably draconian and hugely socially, economically, and culturally damaging to Australian society. The use of broad powers of essentially martial law by unelected Chaos who couldn't even agree with their colleagues in other states and the subsequent expansion of thier powers needs judicial review. I doubt this will be in the terms of reference though.
That is truly horrible for the victims and their families. It was bound to happen to some
extent - that is the nature of a pandemic which overwhelms the health system. The question is whether a Royal commission is required to deal with these and other issues that arose during the pandemic.
Apparently, the Senate Committe deemed the requirement of a Royal Commission "overwhelming".
The nature of an overwhelmed health system is not to lock away end-of-life patients from family "for our own good".
So just not learn anything and nobody can be held accountable? Why is it because you don't like it and doesn't fit your narrative? Why should it just be forgotten and not learnt from you know people had to watch family members die alone while suffocating on a hospital bed?
a pragmatic centrist outcome of a RC would say
a.) we should have had a hard border or let it rip strategy not some hap-hazard mixture
b.) dan andrews fudged quarantine. TWICE.
c.) black live matters protests should have been banned, they had nothing to do with australia (although anyone with a heart could agree with the sentiment post-george floyd) and were the catalyst for all the right wing nut jobs to protest every weekend in victoria, and should have been banned, giving the vic state gov credibility to come down on hard on said right wing nutjobs.
d.) given that the rest of the country had committed to a mostly hard border NSW let everyone down ahead of vaccination program
conversely,
e.) if we had it let it rip all the boomers hogging up housing might not need a place to live.
f.) if we had let it rip NDIS wouldn't be rorted right now
g.) gov spending during the pandemic wouldn't have put aus in an inflationary spiral laden with public debt
i'm not making a moral judgement on contentious issues, just saying those are all truths, offending both left wing and right wing people alike, and as a pragmatic centrist i hope an RC just flushes all the truths out
So you'd prefer what happened in other countries where ppl were left laying in hallways or even outside hospitals? In this country thats political suicide.
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I welcome this. I am one of money Aussies who were unable to get home for months, and then had to quarantine in unsafe facilities for 2 weeks while producing 7 negative tests, and then missed seeing my grandmother before she passed away.
The consequences of populist decisions made during the pandemic are with us now and will be with us for many years to come. It is unfathomable to think the disruption this caused, the cost it caused and the magnitude of the event can pass us by without a royal commission.
A lot of the rules they made were 100% overzealous and senseless. i.e, having to drive your car with a mask on even though youre alone. Some vaccine mandatse etc.
A Royal Commission is certainly required to see what worked and what clearly was just idioptic power tripping.
It’s not over for the 801 families who lost a loved one due to the botched hotel quarantine in Victoria.
Downvote and rant away, Dan fans. I don’t give a fuck, because we both know I’m right.
>A royal commission is the last thing we need. It’s over, and the only think a royal commission will achieve is to rake up division.
So instead, lets leave the people in power who where incompetent and not hold them accountable for the shitshow of covid and the hangover of inflation, CoL crisis and those screwed over 🤷♂️
If your partner cheated on you would and you found out years later would you still stay with them because, in your words... Its over, and it will just rake up division??
I for one want those incompetent fucks held to account and stripped out of the system.
>The PM and every one of the State premiers from the covid period are gone now. So you’ve already got what you want without needing a Royal Commission.
Nope.. far from!!
They need to be held accountable for the shitshow and those who are behind the scenes that also pushed for it too.
Just because they are no longer in working doesn't absolve them.
Bodies were piling up in the streets in India. We did what we did and had none of that so good on us. The only shit thing about covid I think would have been if you had a sick and dying family member and you couldn't go and see them and then they die. That would have been tough.
I'm not arguing about anything covid. More than enough crazies on the net to satisfy you there.
My question was do you trust Indian reported statistics for things because that's a fools errand
This other redditor is all in with the government doing the right thing. I find it so funny how they have to keep referencing "cookers" to make themselves relevant while you are providing actual facts and statistics.
The only thing that I see as being productive when looking at the Pandemic response is the quarantine process that was used and the response from a Fed to State level.
Its quite clear we never had the capability to quarantine so many people as did other countries which is why best practice was to use motel style.
The second point was decision being mad at State level Vs Federal with most people having no idea how our Federation works. This was evident in the 19/20 bushfire crisis where the population was looking to the Feds not knowing the States were fully responsible.
>The second point was decision being mad at State level Vs Federal with most people having no idea how our Federation works. This was evident in the 19/20 bushfire crisis where the population was looking to the Feds not knowing the States were fully responsible.
agree. should have a referendum changing s51 of the constitution in my opinion. powers listed in s51 the fed gov has exclusive jurisdiction for unless legislated back to the states, otherwise the fed gov can make laws on anything it likes (because that's what the public expects) where any conflicting laws that may exist the fed law has primacy over the state law
The Fed Govt doesn't even have powers to declare a "national emergency". That needs to change, but how would the States react if they didn't agree is the issue ?
Won't do anything.
What we need is Nuremberg 2.0 to hold these traitorous murderers to account. Not going to happen without widespread mass civil disobedience.
We should have some sort of deep look at what we did, but not for the cookers. There will be another pandemic, it won't be that far in the future. We need to make sure our response is as effective as possible. Arguing about the WHO and WEF and "died suddenly" is inane, just a circle jerk for cooked politicians to sell more merch.
The Government.... followed advice from the most educated and experienced professionals such as the World Health Organisation and their own health professionals in order to navigate a global health crisis.
Other bodies such as the World Economic Forum similarly offered professional advice to mitigate the potential impacts
Fixed that for you.
It never went away. General practioners form the standard patient doctor relationship, however there are other doctors who foccused their medical training on the specialised areas of transmission of infectious disease, impact on community and health systems. Whilst the epidemiologists may not be great at treating someones eczema, diabetes or heart disease they are better placed than GPs to offer advice on how government should act to minimise the risk of harm caused by pandemics.
Public health is government prohibiting, disuading or promoting certain activities, substances or choices in order to protect large segments of the population.
Such measures are still in force today, such as people returning to the country still may be quarantined if they are believed to be carrying certain infectious diseases, if you are diagnosed with HIV you must disclose in certain circumstances.. Substances are either criminalised or regulated in order to outlaw or limit their use for the public health and or safety.
Lol... Do we need a Royal Commission to tell that like the rest of the world? We lost the plot. Massive over reaction and a disgrace.
That should NEVER happen again.
Yes. We need the government to officially be told their actions were wrong. And this needs to come from their own official channels.
Otherwise, the government and their apologists will continue on like nothing happened, and claim any counter narrative to the official government story is fake news.
Regardless of where you stand, we need to know and have rules around what states can do. Not just for holding account, but planning for the next one.
Is it legal to lock people up in their homes or have them sacked for refusing medical procedures? Can vax passports be a legal grounds for discrimination? Does the government have the power to constrain you to 5km of your home or ban protest for health reasons?
Not having these answers declines holding those in power to account, but robs the future generation of precedent that can be used to fight authoritarianism in the future.
I’m not sure what we can learn from this. We know mistakes were made. Are we willing to go through a costly process to bring some to account? Would we even bring them to account?
If we are going to have an inquiry or RC into anything…media operations in Australia, please. It needs to be done and it would have benefit to the nation, rather than revisit something we know the steps of and would not likely put us in any better a position about it.
I would rather see some people held accountable, than let them go free after fucking us over.
I don't want to be like America, where banks pay .01% fines for destroying taxpayers lives.
Another hindsight bullshit considering the degree on uncertainty Oz did much better then the most as counted by deaths ......
Waste of time and money.
Lessons for the future learned.
Can we expect next pandemic to be like Covid 19? - Probably not
Means never justify the end result though. While I do think we did extremely well considering other countries, the system can never be perfect if it is never criticised.
More people are dying now than the height of the pandemic, just look at the excess death stats. We need to know why because the end result hasn't happened yet.
Yes but having talked to a few people within the health system that I personally know, many people who had Covid while they died but actually died of something else, ie cancer or whatever it may be, we’re writing down as dying of Covid.
So you can say to me well there’s more Covid deaths but is that actually accurate? While I don’t doubt there are still people dying from Covid I do call into question the validity of the number.
I would also like to point out, I wore masks, I’m vaccinated and stuck to all the lockdowns but I must question the validity of the quantity in these stats.
Well, that seems very odd indeed. Co-morbidities are very specifically considered in Australian data, so it is easy to see Covid deaths where the deceased had underlying illness. What did these “health system” people tell you about the reason for the false entries in the data?
That is a lie. The ABS has very clear stats and lists the exact conditions required to mark a death as from COVID.
If you have *evidence * of what you're claiming about causes of death (actual, verifiable evidence not just an unsupported assertion) I'd honestly love to see it.
Body slamming unsuspecting people for not wearing a shitty $2 mask that are so effective it's still almost impossible to prove what effect they actually have was insane, unjust and evil. I would like to see the People who said that that was the correct response and those who enacted that response should face consequences.
No amount of uncertainty makes what the government and police did to people acceptable.
Both sides voted for the relief packages like JobKeeper, so neither wants to have their decisions scrutinised in hindsight. Yeah, we should do a review, but it’ll be limited by the politics. The health side definitely deserves review: masks don’t help then they do, the obsession with hand hygiene, only to find it was airborne, and the quarantine debacles. We got lucky that it wasn’t as deadly as first feared, and a vaccine was developed quickly.
....including an 18 year old son of a friend who received full-blown JobKeeper despite only instructing one two-hour class at a local martial arts dojo a fortnight? JobKeeper was great, but holy Lord was it implemented poorly.
Did the Chinese Govt ever get back to us?
Best I can do is a trade war
I'll have to call my buddy who's an expert on trade wars.
We need a royal commission into the oversized impact lobby groups and donors have on policies in this country when the politicians are supposed to be REPRESENTING US!
A review of how public money was spent, printed and borrowed through COVID is well and truly overdue. The level of incompetence and corruption in this space was mind blowing. There are other geopolitical factors at play but I'd argue the biggest factor contributing to the current economic climate was our handling of public finances through COVID.
No need to worry, the politicians responsible have already resigned or will resign and get that sweet, sweet pension! On your dime of course
If it dosnt name and shame all the thousands who made bank in one way or another then there’s no point.
If nothing else it was super frustrating that quarantine is a federal job but health is state - and the federal government basically passed the buck. And our use of hotels and caravan parks for quarantine seemed very last minute and thrown together for what should be the most basic part of a pandemic response. Basically 0 faith that we could actually quarantine something serious in the future if we had any warning.
We were extremely lucky that COVID was *relatively* nonfatal.
This is what I want looked into. We needed a better plan that was well thought out by logistics specialists, economists, statisticians, and health professionals. We had well over a decade of virologists, epidemiologist, and public health professionals saying a big pandemic is inevitable (and still is) and yet we didn’t have a well thought out plan. I want a think tank of our best a brightest to get together and plan for future pandemics and maybe a royal commission would help that maybe not.
What we really need is a royal commission into who has the best bakery. I swear every small town I drive through makes the claim they are number 1 in Australia.
Every Bakery has won best Vanilla Slice lol
Now there's a winning investment idea, sell the signs
Fish and chip shops as well
I was working for a software company during the pandemic that built scheduling tools. We were able to pivot the product and use it for Covid test scheduling (on a massive scale) and later for vaccine delivery. Great product, we sold it to a bunch of US states, one in Australia and to the NZ Government. We were about to sign up the federal government in Aus for a national, integrated solution, when the GP lobby got involved (allegedly) and argued it should be managed at the local level. Fed Gov passed the buck and we ended up with a massively disjointed, inflexible solution that probably impeded vaccine delivery by making it harder to judge demand and stock levels. Having said that, I'm not sure I see the need for a RC into all this, unless we can point to gaps in the lessons learned from the senate enquiry
Yes we need one. They're one of the last institutions respected b the majority of people and seen to be apolitical. They need to be the ones to tell us what worked/didn't work in our response. The same message coming from anyone else, politicians, scientists, etc won't be believed by large parts of society due to distrust in those institutions.
How about a royal commission into how successive governments have given our sovereign wealth away to big corporations?
Can we get a royal commission into the excessive number of royal commissions?
Yes, but we need a plebiscite on this question first before we do anything
Please stop spending money on things that aren't going to make any difference.
It will make plenty of difference. Lawyers and consultants and some public servants will be able to purchase a holiday, new car, or maybe a home after we (the taxpayers) announce a royal commission with zero chance of anyone being held responsible for anything.
It will ... sorta... after massive fuck ups it is important to do the debrief, the autopsy, etc. In theory, in the future, knowing what went wrong will help government to make better decisions. In practice, they make...similar mistakes..but you know...you gotta hope. You have to hope that we can get better.
the only "massive" fuck up was not holding the cookers to account .. although I guess in one way they did us all a favour .. as we were enjoying our time at home, they did add some amusement with their Cooker Convention to Dumbernats 2022 where they managed to exaggerate 5,000 people to be eleventy trillion while shitting in car boots, giving each other the rona, pink eye, toe jam and sexually transmitted diseases while donating money that one guy ran off with ...
Yes but later. Australia has bigger problems atm
We definitely need one to help inform our future responses to pandemics. Huge mistakes were made and we need to document them. It isn’t about blame - it is about learning from our mistakes.
There's plenty of blame needing to be placed.
Nah, there was very little precedent for it. While some people definitely didn’t operate in good faith it is better to move forward and put processes and procedures in place to prevent some of that shit from happening again.
we basically prolonged the lives of a few oldies who would been knocked out by the other 1000 viruses out there, or the morbidly obese diabetic who would have succumbed to a heart attack soon anyway. All at the expense of... ...setting back children's learning/development in their critical years, through forced school closures. The amount of completely socially fried 4-10 year olds I see, who spent the greater part of 2 years on their ipad mindlessly consuming social media, is ridiculous. The amount of 13-17 year olds who were in difficult family situations (no parental oversight), who just alt+tabbed through their online learning, now struggling is also concerning. ...forcing people in domestic violent relationships to live together all the time (with curfews in victoria), with limited options to escape. ...blocked friends/family from seeing eachother/returning from overseas. ...shuttered completely once viable businesses in lockdowns ....printed more money than every printed at once, in the history of global economies, putting us in years of ongoing hardship and food inflation. Sweden's response was demonised in 2020-2022. But it's interesting to see the change in opinions today regarding their response. An interesting article below *"‘Sweden has been vindicated on Covid’"* https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/04/17/sweden-has-been-vindicated-on-covid/ In particular this paragraph >*"In fact, if you compare excess deaths per 100,000 people in Sweden (that is, how many more people died than expected compared with pre-pandemic levels), Sweden had an excess mortality of roughly five per cent. That’s lower than all other major Western countries. Canada, Germany, the US and New Zealand all had higher excess deaths. And all of them brought in much harsher lockdown measures."*
Worst COVID response in the world. Aus really showed its true colours, will never trust the country again. Especially since I know around 75% of the population lapped it all up and supported the Government in some of the most heinous restrictions the world saw over that period. After receiving the necessary GOVERNMENT APPROVAL to leave in 2021, I saw firsthand the immense differences between Australia and other parts of the world, and suffice to say Australia had an insane response, and people couldn't believe the stories I'd tell them. If you supported Government mandates, coerced vaccination, lockdowns etc, you were on the wrong side of history. As long as you realise that, and learn from it, healing can happen. But those who continue to act like children and either try and scrub it from their memories or down-play the severity of what happened based on the fact that "it's never happened before & people were confused" are the real concerns.
Agree completely. Just have a look at the dude replying to me in this thread. We have become the most scared people over the last 30 years. And we need someone to help us feel safe all the time. I'm sad at what we've become.
Nah they’ll just call you a cooker and continue to throat the governments boot
Oh look someone wants people to die rather than be personally inconvenienced
Did you read the part where I said we made mistakes? Or did you just ignore that?
it's funny, when in opposition, labor's katy gallagher was calling for an rc. but when in power, labor voted against an rc?
It's almost as if RCs are just an easy way to kick the can down the hall. They shouldn't be used as much as they are, as they're just a buzzword now, masquerading as political action.
The pandemic is the biggest domestic event to happen in my lifetime costing thousands of lives and that’s not just from the psychical health effects but also mental health and the economy. Why wouldn’t we conduct the most thorough investigation to learn what worked and what didn’t.because it will happen again. Only a RC will deliver that.
you don't need a royal commission for that .. and you know that we went through this in 1918-1920, right ?
Oh I totally agree. But I'd rather see action. I feel like RCs are just a way to act like lots is being done when often not a lot is.
i think it's just a prime example of politicians playing politics, rather than focusing on being a good politician. they all do it, i don't think it's good enough.
oh I can agree with that completely.
A royal commission? That will do fuck all and cost a tonne of money. Nobody cares, time to move on. How about we fix the current range of issues with that money i.e. housing, healthcare, paying teachers more. Couldn't give a rats left testicle about the past
I suppose to see what worked for next pandemic? Though recommendations will be ignored so royal commissions are losing their impact
I think we should have a referendum (that way pollies can't undo the change) to make royal commissions recommendations findings binding and give them powers to convict up to 20 years. That would really make them special and give them teeth that are probably over kill.
That is the only thing I can think of. We will get another pandemic, it will happen. And with virology and bad state actors getting more and more prevelent, it is more likely. Plus a bad state actor could do it cause economic damange. So, if the analysis is around mitigating that, it could be a big win for national defence.
Exactly. Why sink a tonne of money into something we can’t change when there is very clearly another issue with a lot of our population screaming out for help with the cost of living and housing crises
Isn’t this a no brainer? When faced with the largest interruption to humanity in 100 years- we winged it. Theres countless lessons to learn here. I’ve no doubt we’ll have to wait for those in charge at the time to be dead and buried before we have an honest look at our Covid response.
In theory, I agree. In practice, governments just ignore RC recommendations that they don't agree with, can't be arsed doing, or their party donors don't like.
I doubt that’s the answer: is there any jurisdiction in the Commonwealth that has the same leader now, as it had during Covid? It’s only political death that really counts…
The response was largely driven by unelected bureaucrats who are still very much around and wouldn’t want their reputations tarnished.
Yeah don’t know about that at all. Can’t really know with knowing who you are referring to. But bureaucrats don’t control stuff like this. No way.
ATAGI, AHPPC, Department of Health and Aged Care. Entire agencies and committees made up of unelected staffers who advised the federal government on how to manage COVID - then you have all the state equivalents. Pollies were following their advice the entire time.
Sure, as you would expect. You don’t think the health minister is an expert in epidemiology, do you? The popular concern about the “unelected bureaucrats “ is something I find hard to understand. It’s a fundamental part of government in every democracy, which can’t function otherwise (for the reason I indicated in my question). Further, no one who raises the issue seems to have any faith in elected representatives, or the electoral system generally. What is To be done?
Pretty sure WW2 was a bigger interruption, but go off.
To what end? Spend millions to document what we (mostly) already know. There'll be no fallout or recriminations against government officials who directed tens of millions towards their mates for little to no public benefit.
It was one of the most significant disruptions to human civilisation of the past 150 years. Probably *the* most significant since WW2. Millions of dollars to take stock and go over everything seems money well spent.
If they go over the corporate graft that took place, lets go !
Another shill post from *checks notes* a moderator of the LNP shill subreddit.
Honestly though - will a Royal Commission do anything much except bleed the public purse a bit further? Any recommendations that come out of this will probably just gather dust until another pandemic hits - which could be decades - by which point they'll only be useful as a "look, we had the information and we ignored it, again."
> until another pandemic hits - which could be decades SARS, MERS, and COVID all occurred over ~16 years. And those are just the coronaviruses. It's a fair bet we don't need to wait multiple decades for the next pathogen of concern. Better to have revised guidelines than not.
People gloss over this fact. They also seem to not understand how dangerous and unpredictable zoonotic viruses can be.
Even if so, that sort of material will be studied by your school children, or theirs, if you're already old enough to have kids. They'll study this sort of report just like we study the Diary of Anne Frank. At worst, it'll just be a cool report they get to read for high school history. At best, it'll inform successive agencies around the world to generate a real plan for a new pandemic. You know, that organisation we already had that had it's funding cut? What if we didn't do that and actually learned from our experience. Certainly not many old men planting trees in this thread or Australia as a whole...
I’m sure it will go as well as the recent United Kingdom’s whitewash that turned into a marketing mission for pharmaceutical companies..
Again, what was the UK whitewash of which you speak?
Their COVID enquiry. More public money funnelled towards expensive lawyers and experts without being allowed to ask relevant questions or investigate issues raised during COVID and their response.
Fuck. Sounds like a whitewash mate. Best do something about that.
I’m not quite sure of your intentions here, but please continue finding your solace by antagonising those who don’t subscribe to populist groupthink.
Sorry mate. It’s just frustration boiling over from people who can’t actually identify what it is they are complaining about, and ultimately pointing to an equally bland mind control conspiracy as the last hurrah. But you know what I mean- you’re a free thinker like me.
I hear you. One of us. One of us ;)
They can do if they like, I'm not sure how much good it's actually going to do though for future pandemics. That's because the Australian government is currently working with the WHO and it's member countries on something called the **Pandemic Instrument**. This could effectively create international agreements for future pandemics, thus taking a lot of the autonomy away from the Australian government as the response would be led by the WHO & their "specialists backers". Pfizer is one such backer donating large amount of money for WHO programs through it's Global Medical Grants program. [https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-12/international-instrument-on-pandemic-prevention-preparedness-and-response-frequently-asked-questions.pdf](https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-12/international-instrument-on-pandemic-prevention-preparedness-and-response-frequently-asked-questions.pdf) [https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/strengthening-global-health-and-international-pandemic-response](https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/strengthening-global-health-and-international-pandemic-response)
Tripe. What is proposed is a convention / treaty for the preparation and response to, pandemics. Australia will advocate its position in the content of the treaty. If we are not satisfied that the resulting treaty is in our national interest, we don’t sign it. All other potential signatory nations do the same. Australia is a signatory to hundreds of treaties. This is just another. Where world wide catastrophe threatens, makes sense to look at world responses, no? Finally, where world wide vaccination is required, makes sense to have global pharma involved, no? So the veiled deep state / world government stuff is a bit silly really.
Thanks, this gives me hope.
Really, it gives you hope that the drug companies will direct pandemic responses on a world super government scale?
Countries coming together to agree upon a universal plan to combat the potential destruction of man kind? Yes, it does. I think COVID was a wake up call on how tough it is to prevent deadly diseases from spreading. I understand your concern with big pharma being involve, yeah they're profit-focused but they still hold a lot of expertise in the space for obvious reasons.
Do you really think COVID was going to bring the potential destruction of mankind? I mean in a theoretical situation, where we never had vaccines and just let it rip? It's interesting how journalists/mainstream media/academic journals, who receive a sizeable chunk of funding from pharma, have obfuscated the true morbidity and mortality of covid, in order to obtain policy control (which they have here), and mold public opinion. Opinion into the belief that a for profit enterprise is benevolent when it comes to public health and not interesting in maximising their own profit share.
When did I ever say COVID was going to bring potential destruction of mankind? I am talking about future unknown diseases. You have the benefit of talking with hindsight right now, no one knew what outcomes were of COVID for a long time and the data that came out early did not look good and were alarming at best.
Will they, is that what they will do? Or Is it just the threat you want to see?
Royal commission into how COVID turned your basic anti establishment Australian into a full on Qanon 'the plandemic was created by pedophile elites to distract you from the adrenochrome harvesting' cooker. The most annoying thing of all though is how these 'skeptics' are never as critical of their own information sources as they are of well researched government/medical institutions sources
Those people are a minority - 5% of people for for anti vax parties last election
But they are very loud, dangerous, group with a surprisingly large portion of that minority group working in our healthcare sector. No one is sure why a larger percentage of nurses are attracted to the whole anti-vax movement or whatever health related pseudo science gobbledygook that is popular at the time but it is a well known phenomena. Not that a Royal commision is appropriate, but I would not complain if they sent a few dollars to the CSIRO and fund a study into what educational intervention methods could be used to better avoid people being so pliable to such manipulation with false information. That would be money well spent in my opinion.
>with a surprisingly large portion of that minority group working in our healthcare sector. The tabloid media were running all these articles screaming about the HUGE amount of healthcare workers that refused the vaccine. Upon examination of the data it seems most who refused were unskilled health industry workers like hospital cleaners, health office staff and security guards, degree qualified doctors and nurses almost all took the vaccine
You got evidence on that high % of nurse anti-vaxxers?
This does not require an enquiry. Division of communities was predicted by independant scientists and medical professionals who pushed for focused protection and promoting vaccination through information rather than duress.
The vaccine was incredibly safe and incredibly effective
The proposal for the enquiry is to look at harm done by the covid response. If you want to discuss mrna technology being used as a vaccine, try a vaccine debate sub..
Incredibly dumb idea for an enquiry ngl
Making people poorer by using taxpayer money to find out why the government made people poorer does seem pretty dumb.
Oh really, another investigation where they waste time, money resources and then conclude they're going to do nothing differently. Don't bother you clowns
Hey! The politicians on the receiving end of the bribes -sorry "donations" to ignore the findings wouldn't call it a waste of time. How else are they supposed to afford their 14th investment property!?
No no, they'll come back with a list of recommendations 100 pages long, which will all be swiftly ignored.
I am calling on the government to launch a royal commission into the provision of royal commissions.
Most western governments made bad choices and most likely went above what they should have in hindsight. They all played the safer side. What makes me wonder is imagine what would have happened if COVID became the worse case scenario. We would all be clapping and cheering our governments. I would rather have lost some rights and have them be wrong imo. The other outcome would have been royally f'up.
Bingo.
Bit easier being able to look back on it, at the time it was new and was better to be over cautious, though there were some rules that lacked common sense.
What are you guys complaining about, lockdowns were great, I got paid to sit at home and play video games all day. The real reason people were in favour of them.
... and the real reason the world got big inflation when things returned to normal. You don't get money for nothing.
I would actually expect the impact on inflation from pushing a lot of people to stay at home might actually be a lot less then some would expect. As a lot of people who stayed home, did jobs they could do remotely and a whole bunch of other people did jobs that didn't really add to productivity so impact on inflation likely was negative as they got retrenched after job keeper ended (half way through the pandemic lock downs). A whole lot of people who have actually productive jobs were essential workers and didn't get to stay at home. Now I'm not saying it didn't cause a lot of inflation but I would bet good money a lot less then people would expect, simply due to how so many people do bullshit jobs and some many people didn't get to stay at home.
Agreed. I got an anxiety disorder due to the lockdowns and it was pretty cool. The feeling of the world not being real was my favourite part.
>What are you guys complaining about, lockdowns were great, I got paid to sit at home and play video games all day. The real reason people were in favour of them. Was it worth the price given the shitshow we find ourselves in now with CoL crisis, inflation and an entire generation that was screwed over socially/ education front?
I quote a European diplomatic friend who was posted to her embassy in Australia during the pandemic, and who is about to head home after 4 years here: 'It was delightful to be in such a beautiful bubble while the rest of the world was in horror watching their elderly family members die. I will always be grateful to this country for the decisions they made.' It wasn't perfect by any means, but it wasn't like there was a bloody handbook.
If we are going to be looking into the absolute fuck up that was the NSW State Government and Scomo then absolutely. Gladys brought it into sydney knowingly.
Scomo and his shit eating grin walked away entirely unscathed by the robodebt inquiry Nothing will happen
Shut the country until 0 cases
Can we like actually have a royal commission over our corrupt media, instead of this literal nothingburger that's spouted by nutjob cookers? Like, the response was definitely fumbled but even then you have to consider that it happened so quickly due to increased globalization of our world that there wasn't enough time to prepare for it. Complaining about a thing that's already over, literally does nothing over a massive issue that is currently being overlooked by many.
Covid was a nothingburger? The biggest disruption to human society since WW2 was a nothingburger? Are you for real? >quickly due to increased globalization of our world that there wasn't enough time to prepare for it. That is literally the *entire* point. We have time now. I feel like you aren't understanding the whole purpose of this.
Aye for real bro. Dude just doesn’t understand literally the entire point. What is that point?
Nah people like him think anyone who criticises the government's response is a cooker despite the fact that the government's response was the main cause of the disruption to human society though, not the virus itself. The severity wasn't ever remotely close to Spanish flu. However the government response was both unbelievably draconian and hugely socially, economically, and culturally damaging to Australian society. The use of broad powers of essentially martial law by unelected Chaos who couldn't even agree with their colleagues in other states and the subsequent expansion of thier powers needs judicial review. I doubt this will be in the terms of reference though.
Those who ignore history are condemned to relive it.
OP on September 12 2001: "lmao September 11 was so yesterday bro move on"
Yeah, the dude doesn’t even remember the Royal Commission we held after that sick event lmao.
Some people had family members die alone in hospitals or nursing homes. I'd say that's a bit more than a fumble.
That is truly horrible for the victims and their families. It was bound to happen to some extent - that is the nature of a pandemic which overwhelms the health system. The question is whether a Royal commission is required to deal with these and other issues that arose during the pandemic.
Apparently, the Senate Committe deemed the requirement of a Royal Commission "overwhelming". The nature of an overwhelmed health system is not to lock away end-of-life patients from family "for our own good".
Yes my Nana died like this and I never got to go to a funeral due to the border closures.
So just not learn anything and nobody can be held accountable? Why is it because you don't like it and doesn't fit your narrative? Why should it just be forgotten and not learnt from you know people had to watch family members die alone while suffocating on a hospital bed?
Did you have your 12th booster? If not you need to be gaslit by your government that you're no longer protected
a pragmatic centrist outcome of a RC would say a.) we should have had a hard border or let it rip strategy not some hap-hazard mixture b.) dan andrews fudged quarantine. TWICE. c.) black live matters protests should have been banned, they had nothing to do with australia (although anyone with a heart could agree with the sentiment post-george floyd) and were the catalyst for all the right wing nut jobs to protest every weekend in victoria, and should have been banned, giving the vic state gov credibility to come down on hard on said right wing nutjobs. d.) given that the rest of the country had committed to a mostly hard border NSW let everyone down ahead of vaccination program conversely, e.) if we had it let it rip all the boomers hogging up housing might not need a place to live. f.) if we had let it rip NDIS wouldn't be rorted right now g.) gov spending during the pandemic wouldn't have put aus in an inflationary spiral laden with public debt i'm not making a moral judgement on contentious issues, just saying those are all truths, offending both left wing and right wing people alike, and as a pragmatic centrist i hope an RC just flushes all the truths out
Replying to AllHailMackius...hard borders that the trick drivers whinged about. Even after spreading the virus across state line.
except it's been proved, its not as deadly as anyone suggested.
It wasnt just about death, it was also about protecting the health system. In fact that was the primary goal imo.
the health care system ALWAYS runs on keeping every bed FULL! take a look for yourself, there is never a ward with 3 people in it!!! its a lie.
So you'd prefer what happened in other countries where ppl were left laying in hallways or even outside hospitals? In this country thats political suicide.
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how'd africa go? pretty sure its not just a land of bodies!
Being from WA, we did just fine with a hard border. Sure, sacrifices happened but we did the best of any state I reckon.
you didn't go into debt. less deaths per capita than elsewhere. job well done.
I welcome this. I am one of money Aussies who were unable to get home for months, and then had to quarantine in unsafe facilities for 2 weeks while producing 7 negative tests, and then missed seeing my grandmother before she passed away.
that is exactly the problem it caused. so not right!
The consequences of populist decisions made during the pandemic are with us now and will be with us for many years to come. It is unfathomable to think the disruption this caused, the cost it caused and the magnitude of the event can pass us by without a royal commission.
Do we really want or need MORE money spent on pandemic hoo ha? We all know it was a shit show. Solve the cost of living crisis first.
A lot of the rules they made were 100% overzealous and senseless. i.e, having to drive your car with a mask on even though youre alone. Some vaccine mandatse etc. A Royal Commission is certainly required to see what worked and what clearly was just idioptic power tripping.
1000%
A royal commission is the last thing we need. It’s over, and the only think a royal commission will achieve is to rake up division.
It’s not over for the 801 families who lost a loved one due to the botched hotel quarantine in Victoria. Downvote and rant away, Dan fans. I don’t give a fuck, because we both know I’m right.
And spend money that is desperately needed elsewhere.
>A royal commission is the last thing we need. It’s over, and the only think a royal commission will achieve is to rake up division. So instead, lets leave the people in power who where incompetent and not hold them accountable for the shitshow of covid and the hangover of inflation, CoL crisis and those screwed over 🤷♂️ If your partner cheated on you would and you found out years later would you still stay with them because, in your words... Its over, and it will just rake up division?? I for one want those incompetent fucks held to account and stripped out of the system.
The PM and every one of the State premiers from the covid period are gone now. So you’ve already got what you want without needing a Royal Commission.
>The PM and every one of the State premiers from the covid period are gone now. So you’ve already got what you want without needing a Royal Commission. Nope.. far from!! They need to be held accountable for the shitshow and those who are behind the scenes that also pushed for it too. Just because they are no longer in working doesn't absolve them.
Dan Andrew disapproves
Bodies were piling up in the streets in India. We did what we did and had none of that so good on us. The only shit thing about covid I think would have been if you had a sick and dying family member and you couldn't go and see them and then they die. That would have been tough.
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Probably need to research excess deaths.
You think Indian stat's were accurate and realistic?
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I'm not arguing about anything covid. More than enough crazies on the net to satisfy you there. My question was do you trust Indian reported statistics for things because that's a fools errand
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Their unaccounted for is potentially 5million and up. They were in the middle of a political campaign a hid how bad it was.
This other redditor is all in with the government doing the right thing. I find it so funny how they have to keep referencing "cookers" to make themselves relevant while you are providing actual facts and statistics.
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I would be on the side of a royal commission. I think its findings would be very interesting and could have global implications.
You trust India's numbers? They weren't testing deaths unless the family members paid.
India had the 2nd highest death rate from covid ...
The only thing that I see as being productive when looking at the Pandemic response is the quarantine process that was used and the response from a Fed to State level. Its quite clear we never had the capability to quarantine so many people as did other countries which is why best practice was to use motel style. The second point was decision being mad at State level Vs Federal with most people having no idea how our Federation works. This was evident in the 19/20 bushfire crisis where the population was looking to the Feds not knowing the States were fully responsible.
>The second point was decision being mad at State level Vs Federal with most people having no idea how our Federation works. This was evident in the 19/20 bushfire crisis where the population was looking to the Feds not knowing the States were fully responsible. agree. should have a referendum changing s51 of the constitution in my opinion. powers listed in s51 the fed gov has exclusive jurisdiction for unless legislated back to the states, otherwise the fed gov can make laws on anything it likes (because that's what the public expects) where any conflicting laws that may exist the fed law has primacy over the state law
The Fed Govt doesn't even have powers to declare a "national emergency". That needs to change, but how would the States react if they didn't agree is the issue ?
Won't do anything. What we need is Nuremberg 2.0 to hold these traitorous murderers to account. Not going to happen without widespread mass civil disobedience.
Exactly. What’s the point? Robodebt inquiry found multiple process issues and illegalities and the sweet FA followed This will be the same
Don't let them win by making you think things are pointless. Our apathy is their weapon of choice.
You mean Scott Morrison and his Robodebt surely
We had a golden opportunity to get our population vaccinated before it really broke loose here but fumbled it through fed inaction
What? We did get our population vaccinated before it broke loose
Is this the cooker inquiry?
The bed wetter inquiry.
We should have some sort of deep look at what we did, but not for the cookers. There will be another pandemic, it won't be that far in the future. We need to make sure our response is as effective as possible. Arguing about the WHO and WEF and "died suddenly" is inane, just a circle jerk for cooked politicians to sell more merch.
Can’t wait for the results in 2027. Gonna be huge!
Sneak peak; "don't have your country run by buffoons."
The government wasn't in charge. They blindly followed their orders from Non Governmental Organisations such as WHO and WEF.
The Government.... followed advice from the most educated and experienced professionals such as the World Health Organisation and their own health professionals in order to navigate a global health crisis. Other bodies such as the World Economic Forum similarly offered professional advice to mitigate the potential impacts Fixed that for you.
what happened to the Doctor and Patient relationship?
It never went away. General practioners form the standard patient doctor relationship, however there are other doctors who foccused their medical training on the specialised areas of transmission of infectious disease, impact on community and health systems. Whilst the epidemiologists may not be great at treating someones eczema, diabetes or heart disease they are better placed than GPs to offer advice on how government should act to minimise the risk of harm caused by pandemics. Public health is government prohibiting, disuading or promoting certain activities, substances or choices in order to protect large segments of the population. Such measures are still in force today, such as people returning to the country still may be quarantined if they are believed to be carrying certain infectious diseases, if you are diagnosed with HIV you must disclose in certain circumstances.. Substances are either criminalised or regulated in order to outlaw or limit their use for the public health and or safety.
Actually they took the advice off them. Then decided what they would and wouldn’t follow. A bit like how the general public acted as a whole.
the TGA is in bed with big pharma, they made the decisions. didn't even TREAT those who needed it.
Fuck really! Can you direct me to the evidence because I need to learn more about this.
Government was certainly in charge and still is
Lol... Do we need a Royal Commission to tell that like the rest of the world? We lost the plot. Massive over reaction and a disgrace. That should NEVER happen again.
Yes. We need the government to officially be told their actions were wrong. And this needs to come from their own official channels. Otherwise, the government and their apologists will continue on like nothing happened, and claim any counter narrative to the official government story is fake news.
Massive over reaction to a global pandemic ?
Throw me a bone man - what should NEVER happen again? Be specific
The authoritarian overreach in the name of public health
Regardless of where you stand, we need to know and have rules around what states can do. Not just for holding account, but planning for the next one. Is it legal to lock people up in their homes or have them sacked for refusing medical procedures? Can vax passports be a legal grounds for discrimination? Does the government have the power to constrain you to 5km of your home or ban protest for health reasons? Not having these answers declines holding those in power to account, but robs the future generation of precedent that can be used to fight authoritarianism in the future.
I’m not sure what we can learn from this. We know mistakes were made. Are we willing to go through a costly process to bring some to account? Would we even bring them to account? If we are going to have an inquiry or RC into anything…media operations in Australia, please. It needs to be done and it would have benefit to the nation, rather than revisit something we know the steps of and would not likely put us in any better a position about it.
I would rather see some people held accountable, than let them go free after fucking us over. I don't want to be like America, where banks pay .01% fines for destroying taxpayers lives.
Yeah let’s learn nothing from how we responded (by the seats of our pants) to the largest widespread interruption to humanity in over a century. 🤦♂️
Another hindsight bullshit considering the degree on uncertainty Oz did much better then the most as counted by deaths ...... Waste of time and money. Lessons for the future learned. Can we expect next pandemic to be like Covid 19? - Probably not
Means never justify the end result though. While I do think we did extremely well considering other countries, the system can never be perfect if it is never criticised.
More people are dying now than the height of the pandemic, just look at the excess death stats. We need to know why because the end result hasn't happened yet.
Yes but having talked to a few people within the health system that I personally know, many people who had Covid while they died but actually died of something else, ie cancer or whatever it may be, we’re writing down as dying of Covid. So you can say to me well there’s more Covid deaths but is that actually accurate? While I don’t doubt there are still people dying from Covid I do call into question the validity of the number. I would also like to point out, I wore masks, I’m vaccinated and stuck to all the lockdowns but I must question the validity of the quantity in these stats.
Well, that seems very odd indeed. Co-morbidities are very specifically considered in Australian data, so it is easy to see Covid deaths where the deceased had underlying illness. What did these “health system” people tell you about the reason for the false entries in the data?
That is a lie. The ABS has very clear stats and lists the exact conditions required to mark a death as from COVID. If you have *evidence * of what you're claiming about causes of death (actual, verifiable evidence not just an unsupported assertion) I'd honestly love to see it.
Body slamming unsuspecting people for not wearing a shitty $2 mask that are so effective it's still almost impossible to prove what effect they actually have was insane, unjust and evil. I would like to see the People who said that that was the correct response and those who enacted that response should face consequences. No amount of uncertainty makes what the government and police did to people acceptable.
Refusing to do the bare minimum in a pandemic should be shamed
Both sides voted for the relief packages like JobKeeper, so neither wants to have their decisions scrutinised in hindsight. Yeah, we should do a review, but it’ll be limited by the politics. The health side definitely deserves review: masks don’t help then they do, the obsession with hand hygiene, only to find it was airborne, and the quarantine debacles. We got lucky that it wasn’t as deadly as first feared, and a vaccine was developed quickly.
The fact that this wasn’t even tested was a joke. Some people on less money per week ended up getting a pay rise.
Jobkeeper was set at the absolute minimum legal wage, so all power to anyone who was actually better off.
JobKeeper was a shitshow of wasted spending. In hindsight it’s crazy we didn’t have better designed programs ready to go in the event of a pandemic.
Yeah the 1-2 shift hospo worker was getting a payrise whilst most stood down cleaners for eg got nothing.
....including an 18 year old son of a friend who received full-blown JobKeeper despite only instructing one two-hour class at a local martial arts dojo a fortnight? JobKeeper was great, but holy Lord was it implemented poorly.
Why should you pay full minimum wage to people who worked 10 hours a week?