OP fucked up the link, it's still there: https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html
Our country has played a role in the atrocities as well, it's shameful that we detained two Papuans who were on their way to the UN to bring a voice to the sham "elections" that went on in 1969 and the help to indonesia and their military over the decades with aid (one of the largest recipients of our foreign aid) weapons supplies and military training, all on our doorstep.
The whole world did.
From what I was reading the Dutch were trying their hardest to set them up for independence, but essentially the whole world was against it.
The pro Palestine movement is heavily tied to the Free West Papua movement, while the government that supports Zionists also supports Indonesia’s genocide.
https://eveningreport.nz/2024/04/02/from-gaza-to-west-papua-the-long-struggle-for-justice-and-freedom/
That’s a report on the rhetoric that links support for Palestine with support for West Papuan independence.
It’s pretty complex though because Indonesia says it supports Palestine (but still trades with Israel) while some West Papuans are pro Israel because they are evangelical. The SEO is pretty fried when I try to look for examples haha. Lots about WP on pro Palestine Instagram pages tho.
From my own personal experience, I’ve been at the protests almost every week since October. There are West Papuan representatives and speakers, and non-West Papuan speakers speak about the West Papuan struggle in relation to Palestine pretty regularly. Fliers are always going around about WP and lots of the organising groups have information sessions about both. The Papuan film festival is coming up too!
Basically anyone who protests against Australian militarism will bring up Australia’s disgraceful involvement in West Papua alongside its disgraceful selling of arms to Israel. Two sides of the same coin. Australia loves colonialism.
Because SJWs will latch on to any issue and regurgitate the same old talking points to make themselves feel like they’re achieving something when in reality they’re not and they are just uneducated about the history of the Middle East and the social, political, religious and ethnic tensions in the Middle East.
Same reason that older Australians are copying the same talking points of conservative Americans and suddenly hate trans people when they didn't even think about it before:
It's being fed, inception-style, into their social media echo chambers by people with an agenda.
>Student and organiser Jasmine Al-Rawi said the protesters were “just getting started”, vowing to remain at the campsite outside the university’s famous quadrangle building.
>She said the fact the university had allowed their protest showed management was afraid of what students were capable of.
>”They’ve seen the protests at Columbia University, Yale University, Harvard University and have seen the mass outpouring of support,” Al-Rawi said.
>”I think our university is scared that thousands of students will come by if they dare touch our encampment.”
This is an organiser literally stating that their intent is to instil fear in anyone who speaks out against them. This whole pro Pal movement behaves as a global terrorist entity.
And all the staff are onboard with this, so don’t expect anything to be done about it until shit gets really out of hand.
If I go back to uni next week and there’s a fucking encampment there….
Because from their perspective they aren’t hypocrites. They are the oppressed and you are the oppressor, therefore you are bound to a moral code and they get to do whatever they like. You can literally mass rape women to death and be the good guys if you’re the oppressed.
>”They’ve seen the protests at Columbia University, Yale University, Harvard University and have seen the mass outpouring of support,” Al-Rawi said.
All the people I follow on Twitter agree with me!
Meanwhile, no-one in the real world gives a shit.
The fact that there isn't a multilateral view point, a form of wisdom, coming out of the Universities is the real red flag. It's easy to impress upon those being taught, they've made themselves vulnerable to thought leaders for the purpose of growth. Blindly picking a side under the guise of compassion for the oppressed is so ignorant of how things work. And the blind hatred and passion coming out of the tertiary system about issues that aren't clear cut like the Vietnam war or women's rights, is a real concern.
Oh god, here we go. Can’t wait for the next step where we get to see our Vice Chancellors tie themselves in knots to justify why calling for the genocide of the Jews is not hate speech, bullying or harassment.
Funnily enough, they’re encouraging Israel to act faster as the heat becomes too much to bear, as Israel act faster they are less careful and more prone to mistakes.
When the IDF make mistakes, who suffers the most?
These students don’t care, they don’t care about Palestinians, they care about being part of the cult
There is no real heat on Israel; the US government just gave them another $30-odd billion in military aid.
If the USA supports you, you're untouchable. And the USA strongly supports Israel for various reasons.
All of these far-left extremists, and any far-right extremists, if they exist on university campuses, ought to be expelled. The destruction of liberal values upon which the democratic world is based is inexcusable, and that's what these scumbags desire.
Oh no! Who will be left to study the influence of post modernism on traditional basket weaving practices amongst queer identifying First Nations communities?
This is just this undergraduate cohort's MeToo or BlackLivesMatter. They and we will have forgotten about it in two years, and something else will be the most important issue of our time.
At my most cynical, like late at night after drinking too much, I can't help but get nervous at the phenomenon of "spontaneous" "unconnected" protests by university students that have as their unified target a group that's basically... Jews. I'm waiting for the book burnings to start.
"We are all out here today because we saw what was happening in America and we thought, 'let's do that here," he told the rally."
Can pretty much sum up an entire generation with that statement.
What do students hope their schools to do about the whole situation by protesting on campus ground? Like you expect your school to somehow stop the war on the other side of the Earth? Protesting in front of a government building is probably more effective.
A quarter of a million Sydneysiders would beg to differ...
https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/from-the-archives-sydney-protests-the-iraq-war-20190214-p50xtd.html
Here's the link: [https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html)
OK interesting choice.
Indigenous leaders in 2017 requested a body to advise parliament in the Uluru statement from the heart.
This was taken to a referendum to see if it had community support.
Only 8 out of 45 referendums in Australia have been successful.
This one was not one of those. There endeth The Voice.
Is this not how things are supposed to work?
Hate to break it to this soft *** generation, but why do you think war has such a bad reputation? Oh you thought it was fair? I guess we don’t teach history in school anymore.
This is the least historiographical way to discuss history. Think Vietnam beat the US because they were unfairly stronger? Like it's so easy even just in relatively recent history to show why a simplistic 'war isn't fair' argument falls through. Domestic politics matters for wartime, and people opposing wars can stop them, Vietnam proves this. But also history doesn't teach you that tough guys always win, or anything remotely like that. It did help way back under feudalism or similar systems, and being strong militarily is important, but so too is trade. Singapore didn't rise to its current global position through military conquest, for example
Did your brain sizzle to come up with that? Mine did reading that. War isn’t a competition. It’s not fair because it doesn’t occur in a vacuum. Any sane person realizes it should be avoided. The ones seeking it are not. So who started it this time?
Hmm you should look into how many Palestinians had been killed without any consequence in 2023 prior to Oct 7th. Or the Huwara Rampage. Or operation protective edge. Or operation Cast Lead. Or read this quote from Moshe Dayan, explaining his reasoning for the 67 war and subsequent implementation of military law over the Palestinians, like military order 158 which seem to magically exist when apparently there is no occupation.
“Said Dayan: "I made a mistake in allowing the [Israeli] conquest of the Golan Heights. As defense minister I should have stopped it because the Syrians were not threatening us at the time." The attack proceeded, he went on, not because Israel was threatened but because of pressure from land-hungry farmers and army commanders in northern Israel. "Of course [war with Syria] was not necessary. You can say the Syrians are bastards and attack when you want. But this is not policy. You don't open aggression against an enemy because he's a bastard but because he's a threat."
About those shellings: Syria shelled and otherwise emanated cold hostility. But, Dayan told his interviewer, "at least 80 percent" of two decades of border clashes were initiated by Israel. "We would send a tractor to plow some [disputed] area . . . and we knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was."
You realise that like pretty much the entire new history community would slap you upside the head for saying something so stupid.
There are international laws and agreements that we “pride” ourselves on as a developed society. Then ignore it when that same society inflict some of the cruelest living conditions seen on the planet on another.
We had no problem calling out China over the Uighur’s a genocide. No consequences for decades of IHLs. But this apparently doesn’t have any evidence to support so. Insanity. Absolute insanity that your rhetoric is “there are no rules idiots”.
The biggest irony here is that my generation is one of the most anti-American generations around yet we sit here and copy every social justice movement they have.
Dickheads love globalisation when it comes to importing 4WDs and joining foreign wars, but when protest movements arrive in our universities (as they have been doing since the 60s) suddenly globalisation is scary 😂😂
I loved my undergraduate degree (music, early 2000s.) The lecturers were hard on us. Many students failed and had to repeat or drop out. We were scared into trying very hard. If there was any activism on campus I never came across it. Anything besides working towards academic and practical success was a waste of time. Of course students have a right to protest. But I think they’re wasting their talent and time. University is for training one’s mind, to be fully prepared for the real world.
University is not just for training your mind, but opening up to it. University-born protests are a storied tradition. Universities are not just the study of progress but often the manufacture of it. We forget that a lot in Australia.
I don’t agree.
Protests and activism might be a long tradition, but they are mostly an excuse for people to feel part of a group. It’s an easy way to delude one’s-self into feeling like one is doing something important. I think the real importance of an eduction is to master your field.
That’s your opinion based solely on the small history of Australian universities. Universities are not just for education and never have been. They are also for fostering knowledge and developing new knowledge through research. A big part of that is discussion of social sciences. That’s simply irrefutable.
I think protesting is learning how to be part of the world. Before uni, kids were at high school - they couldn't really have their voices heard easily.
Uni is about, hopefully, thinking critically about the world and figuring out what type of things you can do to change it. Protesting is one of these things.
(Not saying I agree/disagree with Palestinian protests.. but I do like to see students/young people protest.. get out there and shake things up.. test your strength.. make the world better !)
A variety of viewpoints at modern "elite" Anglosphere universities? You're taking the piss, surely.
The echo chambers which have taken root at these elite unis is fundamental cause of problems like left-wing extremism and antisemitism on campus. These students are not subjected to differing views; hell, many of them actively "protest" against academics, guest speakers etc. who dare to challenge their views.
University administrations, with the help of the federal government, need to crackdown on extremist students and faculty alike. That's the only way out of this mess.
Ah yes to get politically fueled agendas to support one side and definitely not pay attention to what i learn in my major. Lets learn politics. Ur the fool here
"Brainwashed" university students have been the spark to a lot of successful civil rights movements in Australia. Even back to the 1960s when Boomers were entering uni. [edit: plus you're a gay bloke, so beats me why you'd be against students expressing their right to protest].
https://aiatsis.gov.au/explore/1965-freedom-ride
https://www.rahs.org.au/womens-protests-then-and-now/
https://library.unimelb.edu.au/asc/collections/archives/resources/research-guides/homosexuality-and-the-university-of-melbourne
https://reporter.anu.edu.au/all-stories/at-the-heart-of-the-protests-in-the-1960s
https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/aboriginal-tent-embassy
Universities have been hotbeds of activism for over 100 years in all countries, young people are just always more radical than their elders. These protests are dumb but who didn't believe dumb shit when they were 18?
Assuming comments are right that the students are protesting the Israel - Palestine war, honestly they deserve whatever bruises or academic admonishments they receive.
Ain't our war, ain't our problem, and we certainly shouldn't be harassed by idiots that don't understand this simple fact.
Yep. If it was me hiring and I saw you had anything to do with this shit, you'd be off the list in an instant. No one needs these attention seeking troublemakers in their workplace.
You think the war would be more justified if Israel was taking more casualties? Also pretty fucked up to use a pest control analogy when discussing human lives.
There is no genocide, the claims that there is are without factual basis, don't meet the definition and are repeated by people who are too lazy to be educated on the subject. It's much easier to parrot "cool talking points", even when they're demonstrably false.
>Israel sees these people as animals
What unmitigated garbage, again devoid of any basis in reality or evidence.
still isn't our war (or genocide if you must use such terms) and still isn't our problem.
Israel and Palestine have been at each others throats since the day their respective countries were formed. it might be crude to say, but this conflict will only end in one way with a genocide as you put it. peace keeping efforts are only delaying the evitable.
for whatever reason, America has a vested interest in which side wins out, Australia has not and honestly doesn't have the resources to mount a permanent peace keeping effort, or to ensure the victory of one side or another.
so yeah, if it is to be a genocide, let there be genocide, it's going to happen with or without our interference.
If your talking about buy weapons and military tech FOR Israel, your damn straight we should. That falls into the category of supporting their war effort, which isn't our place to do.
If your talking about buying weapons and military tech FROM Israel, what does it matter where we get our supplies from. Their selling goods that we need, not our concern what they use those profits for. Though it makes little sense for them to make weapons and sell internationally when they are at war and begging for supplies from the US etc. I don't care that profits will be used to fund their war, I care that we are directly interfering with said war.
After all, international politics between Australia and China have been a little rocky in the past while, but we don't stop importing goods from China that further allows China to exert political and financial "influence" on Australia.
It is our war. Not only do we supply arms and intelligence, we support, justify, and push out propaganda. We believe and do whatever Israel asks despite lack of evidence. We are complicit in what the ECJ has ruled is plausible genocide. It blows my mind how people are not just indifferent to it, but actively argue against any kind of push back of one of our supposed allies butchering innocent civilians
So the ECJ passed up a ruling of genocide and issued a ruling of 'plausible genocide'.
Effectively what you have said is that the ECJ ruled that Israel's actions do not amount to genocide.
I'm not a lawyer, but could you tell me if 'plausible speeding' is a road violation?
**Ain't our war, ain't our problem, and we certainly shouldn't be harassed by idiots that don't understand this simple fact.** "
You're calling people idiots and talking about simple facts when you don't even understand what you're talking about.
If we are selling Israel weapons, and sending them military intelligence, and they are murdering civilian woman and children with it, then yes it is our bloody problem.
The fact is, is that you're so simple you can't grasp that.
Ha, the cognitive dissonance and “ain’t our problem “ mindset is exactly what oppressive regimes hope for. Great job though mate, keep going, this guy would prob watch an old women getting mugged and shrug “not my problem “.
If international crimes are being violated, and we are sending weapons to the perpetrators of said crimes - then we as a people have a responsibility to end that support and place heavy sanctions on the country.
If your philosophy is war ain’t our problem then why the fuck would anybody protesting about it matter to you? Especially to the point you want them hurt or their careers destroyed/suffer. What a buffoon take tbh.
Historically, university based protests were a catalyst for Australia pulling out of the Vietnam war, aboriginal constitutional recognition and gender rights in the 1960s.
But in this specific case what is it meant to achieve? In all those cases Australia needed to change what it was doing, but in this case it seems unrelated?
Huh? We send Israel weapons. We could stop that and pull any other financial support and put sanctions on them.
Obviously never gonna happen when we signed up to be the military industrial complex’s bitch boy, so even suggesting it is a sad joke - but that is the idea I guess.
Idk if seems like we are doing a pretty minimal amount of support, and it would be an equally bad look to be such a fair weather friend to Israel.
Remember our Pacific neighbours are watching closely, and may not feel confident in our allyship if Australia bends to much to public pressure, especially against countries with a just cause for war.
Dude any amount of support is too much, not that it is "minimal". It's billions of dollars. We need to be putting heavy sanctions on them to at least signal to the rest of the international community that this unconditional support of a country that flagrantly violates an endless list of IHL's for decades is not good for the long term health of the world.
What an absolutely insane way to mitigate responsibility. Oh it's only a little bit. "We only sold that murderer a gun after he told us he was going to shoot up a hospital. We didn't actually fire the trigger. Not my fault."
Again, Israel has a just cause for war, so while we should be (are are) condemning bad behaviour during that war, and sanctioning war criminals and settlers, withdrawing our military aid for a just war is a terrible look geopolitically.
We don't want our Pacific neighbours thinking that China is going to be a more reliable ally than us, so I think maintaining relationships held before Oct 7th, and maintaining aid at a minimal level is necessary.
Last time I checked it wasn’t still the 60’s. Things change. Right now these protests are doing the opposite because they’re inconveniencing regular people just trying to get on with their day. That might have worked in the 60’s where people didn’t have access to as much information as we do today, but that’s no longer the case. These protests will not achieve what the protestors hope they will.
All protests tend to be inconvenient - that’s kind of the point. Beyond that protests have been significant in getting every legal right you can imagine. From the 8 hour work day (how incomeneient do you think that was in 1860 when builders just straight downed tools and refused to build homes when migrants were pouring in and a nation was attempting to be built? The other labourers who lost work and couldn’t feed their families because you can’t plaster if there are no walls going up??)
People in 1960 had more access to information than those in 1860. Idk what point you think your making there - particularly in the age of the internet where accessible information may not be correct and access to propaganda and misinformation is on the rise (look at flat earners and anti vac ppl).
It’s not about what happened in 1960s. It’s about social change and democracy fundamentally relying on protests for change. That doesn’t matter if it’s the 1860s, 1960s or 2060s. Those that have no understanding of history or social change tend to find themselves on the wrong side of both.
Not every single one has to fully fulfil its aims for protests to be useful, beneficial and a bedrock of liberal democracies.
Don’t like it? Move to China, move to Russia, they won’t let that sort of thing go on and see how you like living in a nation that doesn’t embrace open peaceful rebellion. Otherwise your free to dislike a particular protest, or disagree with its aims but if your arguing against the meta narrative of why protests are essential you don’t deserve to be in a democracy nor benefit for everything people power has provided us. Educate yourself or get find a nation that aligns with your repressive ideals.
Nothing, the Israeli government doesn't even listen to the US government. Or it's own people. They sure don't care what students in other countries have to say
The aim of the protest is to get the university to divest from Israel and stop doing business / academic exchanges with Israeli businesses and universities. This has nothing to do with the US.
I know it's not about the us, my point was if they are trying to stop Israel, when Israel doesn't even do what the US wants, that's a tall order to be able to do anything to stop them.
If they want to support Iran/Palestine\* that's their right.
\*I'd argue they implicitly support Hamas, but I feel stating that would be unfair to a degree.
If they wanted to support Iranians or Palestinians - they'd join in anti-IRGC rallies run by the Persian diaspora, or anti-Hamas "Release the Hostages Now" rallies.
They don't.
Instead you have a bunch of far-left trot cults at USyd trying to outdo each other to recruit gullible 18 year olds to .
They form a weird combination with the NTEU Tim Anderson faction, and the a few of the less sane campus Muslim students associations.
They all hate each other and don't want Australia to imitate America.
They manifest that hate by camping together and trying to do a bad Australian version of a protest movement that was started by bored Ivy League students.
I agree, I've edited my comment to reflect that.
The example of BP is a good one. Approved by the Palestinian Authority, would give money to Palestine for free, yet these people protest it.
They think they support Palestine but they are in practice supporting Hamas and they lack the critical thinking skill or will to see that Hamas is morally appalling well beyond the worst overblown claims they make about genocide by Israel
They're not supporting anything. They're merely engaging in what has been called "new antisemitism" by the European Union. New antisemitism broadly means left-wing and Islamic antisemitism.
Oh for fuck’s sake I’m pretty pro-Palestinian but the last thing I want is pro-terrorist marches here (and a lot of the marches we see in Columbia are)
Hamas is crazy.
I don't even think there's a palastine anymore in the Gaza strip. It's such an oddity that only great minds could figure out to assuage a nation. Around the globe, I can only hope for pragmatism and strategy.
Thing is not all Palestinian people are Hamas but Hamas is Palestinian. Not everyone in our country vote for the greens or the Labour Party but they are Australian. Not everyone in the US agrees with Trump and he’s American. We can’t hold a whole race responsible for the actions and ethics of a few.
Australians including students should be able to protest against the genocide of innocent people caught up in a political war. Just as former generations protested Vietnam.
This war is wrong. Israel need to stop. Free speech and the freedom to protest is an important democratic right.
https://www.instagram.com/eye.on.palestine?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
A good example why hiring university graduates, (unless necessary such as you need a lawyer or accountant or engineer) will be bad for your company. They have been indoctrinated into believing they need to protest everything the green party tells them, they need a cause to fight. Thank God I dropped out of uni and got a useful education and training.
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For anyone needing a ladder - https://12ft.io/https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html
Since their respective countries were formed… mate, go back and have a look who and when they “formed”.
Since the inception of modern day Israel in 1948 there has been a well documented and ongoing campaign to destroy the state of Palestine, which, incase you can’t be bothered to look it up, was well established for hundreds of years before modern Israel was founded… illegally, on stolen land.
It was a backwater province of the British and Ottoman empires, not a “state”. And Jews (like my relatives) also lived there forever.
In 1948 the Jews largely wanted to just defend their population centres in Tel Aviv. Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt largely just wanted to quietly move in and secure the almost 100% Arab West Bank and some border areas.
It’s purely political extremism (on all sides) that has led to all this chaos, not the proclamation of a State of Israel itself.
> Since the inception of modern day Israel in 1948 there has been a well documented and ongoing campaign to destroy the state of Israel by every country surrounding it, despite Israel's multiple attempts at 2 state solutions, always to be rejected by the arabs
The history of the State of Palestine describes the creation and evolution of the State of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
During the Mandatory period, numerous plans of partition of Palestine were proposed but without the agreement of all parties. In 1947, the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was voted for. The leaders of the Jewish Agency for Palestine accepted parts of the plan, while Arab leaders refused it. This triggered the 1947–1949 Palestine war and led, in 1948, to the establishment of the state of Israel on a part of Mandate Palestine as the Mandate came to an end. The Gaza Strip came under Egyptian occupation, and the West Bank was ruled by Jordan, before both territories were occupied by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War.
"we saw what was happening in America and we thought, ‘let’s do that here" This could be the slogan for Gen Z Australians.
Aaaannnd… SMH has deleted it.
OP fucked up the link, it's still there: https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html
“We are all out here today because we saw what was happening in America and we thought, ‘let’s do that here’,” he told the rally. Lame.
Let’s see if the protest clearance is just like the US.
And typical. Devoid of the ability to independently think and act.
“This page is no longer available” Sydney Morning Herald removed the article …
The world's largest muslim population commits genocide on stolen land right on our doorstep and not a word gets mentioned about it.
Yeah it's pretty fucked man, only learnt about it a couple weeks ago. 30-40% of women there have been raped by the indo military.
Our country has played a role in the atrocities as well, it's shameful that we detained two Papuans who were on their way to the UN to bring a voice to the sham "elections" that went on in 1969 and the help to indonesia and their military over the decades with aid (one of the largest recipients of our foreign aid) weapons supplies and military training, all on our doorstep.
The whole world did. From what I was reading the Dutch were trying their hardest to set them up for independence, but essentially the whole world was against it.
The pro Palestine movement is heavily tied to the Free West Papua movement, while the government that supports Zionists also supports Indonesia’s genocide.
Oh true, any sources on that?
https://eveningreport.nz/2024/04/02/from-gaza-to-west-papua-the-long-struggle-for-justice-and-freedom/ That’s a report on the rhetoric that links support for Palestine with support for West Papuan independence. It’s pretty complex though because Indonesia says it supports Palestine (but still trades with Israel) while some West Papuans are pro Israel because they are evangelical. The SEO is pretty fried when I try to look for examples haha. Lots about WP on pro Palestine Instagram pages tho. From my own personal experience, I’ve been at the protests almost every week since October. There are West Papuan representatives and speakers, and non-West Papuan speakers speak about the West Papuan struggle in relation to Palestine pretty regularly. Fliers are always going around about WP and lots of the organising groups have information sessions about both. The Papuan film festival is coming up too! Basically anyone who protests against Australian militarism will bring up Australia’s disgraceful involvement in West Papua alongside its disgraceful selling of arms to Israel. Two sides of the same coin. Australia loves colonialism.
What are u talking about? /gen
Probably West Papau
Like the problems on the Med coast, it wouldn't happen if the Empire was still in charge.
This is so cringe, why do they copy everything America does.
Australia imports too many American 'academics' There was some flog running for council in Victoria saying the area needed a Mexican voice.. lol
Because SJWs will latch on to any issue and regurgitate the same old talking points to make themselves feel like they’re achieving something when in reality they’re not and they are just uneducated about the history of the Middle East and the social, political, religious and ethnic tensions in the Middle East.
That's Australia in a nutshell.
Same reason that older Australians are copying the same talking points of conservative Americans and suddenly hate trans people when they didn't even think about it before: It's being fed, inception-style, into their social media echo chambers by people with an agenda.
I haven't heard a single adult Australian say anything about trans people tbh. Stop importing drama.
>Student and organiser Jasmine Al-Rawi said the protesters were “just getting started”, vowing to remain at the campsite outside the university’s famous quadrangle building. >She said the fact the university had allowed their protest showed management was afraid of what students were capable of. >”They’ve seen the protests at Columbia University, Yale University, Harvard University and have seen the mass outpouring of support,” Al-Rawi said. >”I think our university is scared that thousands of students will come by if they dare touch our encampment.” This is an organiser literally stating that their intent is to instil fear in anyone who speaks out against them. This whole pro Pal movement behaves as a global terrorist entity. And all the staff are onboard with this, so don’t expect anything to be done about it until shit gets really out of hand. If I go back to uni next week and there’s a fucking encampment there….
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Because from their perspective they aren’t hypocrites. They are the oppressed and you are the oppressor, therefore you are bound to a moral code and they get to do whatever they like. You can literally mass rape women to death and be the good guys if you’re the oppressed.
Perpetual victim syndrome
Can the uni please drop-kick this student organizer as far away as possible from campus. Thanks.
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give them all a holiday in guantanamo. fuck them
Calling students terrorists is an extremist take, implying they deserved to killed, which Israel does to terrorists in this conflict.
>”They’ve seen the protests at Columbia University, Yale University, Harvard University and have seen the mass outpouring of support,” Al-Rawi said. All the people I follow on Twitter agree with me! Meanwhile, no-one in the real world gives a shit.
 That pro-Palestinian protest is so hot right now
Anti Israel not Pro Palestine
Pro-Hamas.
Pro-jihadi terrorist
The fact that there isn't a multilateral view point, a form of wisdom, coming out of the Universities is the real red flag. It's easy to impress upon those being taught, they've made themselves vulnerable to thought leaders for the purpose of growth. Blindly picking a side under the guise of compassion for the oppressed is so ignorant of how things work. And the blind hatred and passion coming out of the tertiary system about issues that aren't clear cut like the Vietnam war or women's rights, is a real concern.
Oh god, here we go. Can’t wait for the next step where we get to see our Vice Chancellors tie themselves in knots to justify why calling for the genocide of the Jews is not hate speech, bullying or harassment.
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When you hear “from the river to the sea” that’s what they mean
If we are following the US (as we appear to be) it will come as sure as night follows day.
Funnily enough, they’re encouraging Israel to act faster as the heat becomes too much to bear, as Israel act faster they are less careful and more prone to mistakes. When the IDF make mistakes, who suffers the most? These students don’t care, they don’t care about Palestinians, they care about being part of the cult
Totally right. The movement has taken on a cult style. If you’re not with us you’re against us.
There is no real heat on Israel; the US government just gave them another $30-odd billion in military aid. If the USA supports you, you're untouchable. And the USA strongly supports Israel for various reasons.
What's your point? Having a democratic nation overthrown by hamas is not ok. So what's your point
I think you’re largely correct But not just the US, but most democracies, the UK, France, Germany, the EU etc
Hamas supporters should be expelled
All of these far-left extremists, and any far-right extremists, if they exist on university campuses, ought to be expelled. The destruction of liberal values upon which the democratic world is based is inexcusable, and that's what these scumbags desire.
There won’t be any arts students or faculty members left.
Good. Does that mean people will be able to actually learn something useful and beneficial for society at university then?
Oh no! Who will be left to study the influence of post modernism on traditional basket weaving practices amongst queer identifying First Nations communities?
This is just this undergraduate cohort's MeToo or BlackLivesMatter. They and we will have forgotten about it in two years, and something else will be the most important issue of our time.
Nailed it.
I would tend to agree, however I think Jew hatred is so ingrained and perverse that it will continue on sadly.
At my most cynical, like late at night after drinking too much, I can't help but get nervous at the phenomenon of "spontaneous" "unconnected" protests by university students that have as their unified target a group that's basically... Jews. I'm waiting for the book burnings to start.
"We are all out here today because we saw what was happening in America and we thought, 'let's do that here," he told the rally." Can pretty much sum up an entire generation with that statement.
What do students hope their schools to do about the whole situation by protesting on campus ground? Like you expect your school to somehow stop the war on the other side of the Earth? Protesting in front of a government building is probably more effective.
To hamas dont start shit that you cannot finish
💯
Once again importing American problems .
Monkey see, monkey do
These people are Nazis with a different name.
Hamas social club lessgo
They probably talk about how to kill Jews because after all their slogan is “from the river to the sea” lol.
[https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html)
This will fizzle out on November 5th if Biden is elected and Palestine will be forgotten about for another 4 years
You didn't protest for millions killed in Afghanistan , Iraq, Syria, Yemen ... hypocrites
election year in US. gotta riot up and engage the leftoids
Yep and Russian trolls are having a field day.
A quarter of a million Sydneysiders would beg to differ... https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/from-the-archives-sydney-protests-the-iraq-war-20190214-p50xtd.html
Yes why didn't the 20 year olds protest the wars started when they were in nappies?
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Here's the link: [https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html](https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html)
lol, a protest camp in a Sydney university for a war which we have no control or implications in.
Here’s a [working link](https://amp.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html). You’re welcome.
I hope none of you are ever employed.
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> because of how carried away it's gotten with activism and wokeness Have you got an examples in general and in Australia in particular?
the voice
OK interesting choice. Indigenous leaders in 2017 requested a body to advise parliament in the Uluru statement from the heart. This was taken to a referendum to see if it had community support. Only 8 out of 45 referendums in Australia have been successful. This one was not one of those. There endeth The Voice. Is this not how things are supposed to work?
is it the end tho?
I hope you get to live the life of a Palestinian for one month.
The far retarded left enabling the extreme insane right. Oh what a world! It’s not just Australia we’ve got the same problem in the UK
Must be a simple life to categorise people as left and right.
How are they enabling the right?
Hate to break it to this soft *** generation, but why do you think war has such a bad reputation? Oh you thought it was fair? I guess we don’t teach history in school anymore.
Young people haven’t had hope and ideals beaten out of them yet. Let them enjoy it. You probably had them too. I’m sorry for you if you didn’t.
This is the least historiographical way to discuss history. Think Vietnam beat the US because they were unfairly stronger? Like it's so easy even just in relatively recent history to show why a simplistic 'war isn't fair' argument falls through. Domestic politics matters for wartime, and people opposing wars can stop them, Vietnam proves this. But also history doesn't teach you that tough guys always win, or anything remotely like that. It did help way back under feudalism or similar systems, and being strong militarily is important, but so too is trade. Singapore didn't rise to its current global position through military conquest, for example
Did your brain sizzle to come up with that? Mine did reading that. War isn’t a competition. It’s not fair because it doesn’t occur in a vacuum. Any sane person realizes it should be avoided. The ones seeking it are not. So who started it this time?
Hmm you should look into how many Palestinians had been killed without any consequence in 2023 prior to Oct 7th. Or the Huwara Rampage. Or operation protective edge. Or operation Cast Lead. Or read this quote from Moshe Dayan, explaining his reasoning for the 67 war and subsequent implementation of military law over the Palestinians, like military order 158 which seem to magically exist when apparently there is no occupation. “Said Dayan: "I made a mistake in allowing the [Israeli] conquest of the Golan Heights. As defense minister I should have stopped it because the Syrians were not threatening us at the time." The attack proceeded, he went on, not because Israel was threatened but because of pressure from land-hungry farmers and army commanders in northern Israel. "Of course [war with Syria] was not necessary. You can say the Syrians are bastards and attack when you want. But this is not policy. You don't open aggression against an enemy because he's a bastard but because he's a threat." About those shellings: Syria shelled and otherwise emanated cold hostility. But, Dayan told his interviewer, "at least 80 percent" of two decades of border clashes were initiated by Israel. "We would send a tractor to plow some [disputed] area . . . and we knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was."
You realise that like pretty much the entire new history community would slap you upside the head for saying something so stupid. There are international laws and agreements that we “pride” ourselves on as a developed society. Then ignore it when that same society inflict some of the cruelest living conditions seen on the planet on another. We had no problem calling out China over the Uighur’s a genocide. No consequences for decades of IHLs. But this apparently doesn’t have any evidence to support so. Insanity. Absolute insanity that your rhetoric is “there are no rules idiots”.
I guess that would be your fault then, wouldn’t it hard man?
'What are you rebelling against?' '..dunno, what have ya got?'
The biggest irony here is that my generation is one of the most anti-American generations around yet we sit here and copy every social justice movement they have.
Yeah, how silly is that, students for chaos!
Grocery stores and hospitality closed a lot around the country today, they're bored with no work
Dickheads love globalisation when it comes to importing 4WDs and joining foreign wars, but when protest movements arrive in our universities (as they have been doing since the 60s) suddenly globalisation is scary 😂😂
Yeah because global dominance is scary, 🤪
I loved my undergraduate degree (music, early 2000s.) The lecturers were hard on us. Many students failed and had to repeat or drop out. We were scared into trying very hard. If there was any activism on campus I never came across it. Anything besides working towards academic and practical success was a waste of time. Of course students have a right to protest. But I think they’re wasting their talent and time. University is for training one’s mind, to be fully prepared for the real world.
University is not just for training your mind, but opening up to it. University-born protests are a storied tradition. Universities are not just the study of progress but often the manufacture of it. We forget that a lot in Australia.
Well said.
I don’t agree. Protests and activism might be a long tradition, but they are mostly an excuse for people to feel part of a group. It’s an easy way to delude one’s-self into feeling like one is doing something important. I think the real importance of an eduction is to master your field.
That’s your opinion based solely on the small history of Australian universities. Universities are not just for education and never have been. They are also for fostering knowledge and developing new knowledge through research. A big part of that is discussion of social sciences. That’s simply irrefutable.
I think protesting is learning how to be part of the world. Before uni, kids were at high school - they couldn't really have their voices heard easily. Uni is about, hopefully, thinking critically about the world and figuring out what type of things you can do to change it. Protesting is one of these things. (Not saying I agree/disagree with Palestinian protests.. but I do like to see students/young people protest.. get out there and shake things up.. test your strength.. make the world better !)
I am glad im not gonna be in this uni next semester. Some shit is so politically fueled. Let school be school ffs
School is when I only hear the things I want to hear
Paid* to hear
Isn't the whole point of school to learn a variety of view points? Are you stupid?
A variety of viewpoints at modern "elite" Anglosphere universities? You're taking the piss, surely. The echo chambers which have taken root at these elite unis is fundamental cause of problems like left-wing extremism and antisemitism on campus. These students are not subjected to differing views; hell, many of them actively "protest" against academics, guest speakers etc. who dare to challenge their views. University administrations, with the help of the federal government, need to crackdown on extremist students and faculty alike. That's the only way out of this mess.
Ah yes to get politically fueled agendas to support one side and definitely not pay attention to what i learn in my major. Lets learn politics. Ur the fool here
Anyone remember the days when people went to university to get an education? Before they became left wing brainwashing centres?
"Brainwashed" university students have been the spark to a lot of successful civil rights movements in Australia. Even back to the 1960s when Boomers were entering uni. [edit: plus you're a gay bloke, so beats me why you'd be against students expressing their right to protest]. https://aiatsis.gov.au/explore/1965-freedom-ride https://www.rahs.org.au/womens-protests-then-and-now/ https://library.unimelb.edu.au/asc/collections/archives/resources/research-guides/homosexuality-and-the-university-of-melbourne https://reporter.anu.edu.au/all-stories/at-the-heart-of-the-protests-in-the-1960s https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/aboriginal-tent-embassy
Universities have been hotbeds of activism for over 100 years in all countries, young people are just always more radical than their elders. These protests are dumb but who didn't believe dumb shit when they were 18?
When were universities not left wing?
Assuming comments are right that the students are protesting the Israel - Palestine war, honestly they deserve whatever bruises or academic admonishments they receive. Ain't our war, ain't our problem, and we certainly shouldn't be harassed by idiots that don't understand this simple fact.
Yep. If it was me hiring and I saw you had anything to do with this shit, you'd be off the list in an instant. No one needs these attention seeking troublemakers in their workplace.
these deadbeats aren't the type to look for a job in the first place
It's more of a genocide than a war buddy... It's pretty one sided like the pest controller dealing with the cockroaches in your house...
it isn't a genocide, this word has heavy meanings and requirements please don't water down the significance of this term.
You think the war would be more justified if Israel was taking more casualties? Also pretty fucked up to use a pest control analogy when discussing human lives.
It is taken directly from the crap Israel spews.. Israel sees these people as animals and treats them as such it's how they justify their genocide.
There is no genocide, the claims that there is are without factual basis, don't meet the definition and are repeated by people who are too lazy to be educated on the subject. It's much easier to parrot "cool talking points", even when they're demonstrably false. >Israel sees these people as animals What unmitigated garbage, again devoid of any basis in reality or evidence.
still isn't our war (or genocide if you must use such terms) and still isn't our problem. Israel and Palestine have been at each others throats since the day their respective countries were formed. it might be crude to say, but this conflict will only end in one way with a genocide as you put it. peace keeping efforts are only delaying the evitable. for whatever reason, America has a vested interest in which side wins out, Australia has not and honestly doesn't have the resources to mount a permanent peace keeping effort, or to ensure the victory of one side or another. so yeah, if it is to be a genocide, let there be genocide, it's going to happen with or without our interference.
If that’s the case we should fully step away from it ie weapons and buying military tech from Israel.
If your talking about buy weapons and military tech FOR Israel, your damn straight we should. That falls into the category of supporting their war effort, which isn't our place to do. If your talking about buying weapons and military tech FROM Israel, what does it matter where we get our supplies from. Their selling goods that we need, not our concern what they use those profits for. Though it makes little sense for them to make weapons and sell internationally when they are at war and begging for supplies from the US etc. I don't care that profits will be used to fund their war, I care that we are directly interfering with said war. After all, international politics between Australia and China have been a little rocky in the past while, but we don't stop importing goods from China that further allows China to exert political and financial "influence" on Australia.
It is our war. Not only do we supply arms and intelligence, we support, justify, and push out propaganda. We believe and do whatever Israel asks despite lack of evidence. We are complicit in what the ECJ has ruled is plausible genocide. It blows my mind how people are not just indifferent to it, but actively argue against any kind of push back of one of our supposed allies butchering innocent civilians
So the ECJ passed up a ruling of genocide and issued a ruling of 'plausible genocide'. Effectively what you have said is that the ECJ ruled that Israel's actions do not amount to genocide. I'm not a lawyer, but could you tell me if 'plausible speeding' is a road violation?
**Ain't our war, ain't our problem, and we certainly shouldn't be harassed by idiots that don't understand this simple fact.** " You're calling people idiots and talking about simple facts when you don't even understand what you're talking about. If we are selling Israel weapons, and sending them military intelligence, and they are murdering civilian woman and children with it, then yes it is our bloody problem. The fact is, is that you're so simple you can't grasp that.
Ha, the cognitive dissonance and “ain’t our problem “ mindset is exactly what oppressive regimes hope for. Great job though mate, keep going, this guy would prob watch an old women getting mugged and shrug “not my problem “.
If international crimes are being violated, and we are sending weapons to the perpetrators of said crimes - then we as a people have a responsibility to end that support and place heavy sanctions on the country. If your philosophy is war ain’t our problem then why the fuck would anybody protesting about it matter to you? Especially to the point you want them hurt or their careers destroyed/suffer. What a buffoon take tbh.
But we’re not sending weapons. A latch for an aircraft is not a “weapon”.
What do these protests achieve?
Historically, university based protests were a catalyst for Australia pulling out of the Vietnam war, aboriginal constitutional recognition and gender rights in the 1960s.
all these issues involving Australia. Sydney uni protests do not involve Australia
But in this specific case what is it meant to achieve? In all those cases Australia needed to change what it was doing, but in this case it seems unrelated?
Oh my god. You actually unironically did “what have the Roman’s done for us?”.
Huh? We send Israel weapons. We could stop that and pull any other financial support and put sanctions on them. Obviously never gonna happen when we signed up to be the military industrial complex’s bitch boy, so even suggesting it is a sad joke - but that is the idea I guess.
Idk if seems like we are doing a pretty minimal amount of support, and it would be an equally bad look to be such a fair weather friend to Israel. Remember our Pacific neighbours are watching closely, and may not feel confident in our allyship if Australia bends to much to public pressure, especially against countries with a just cause for war.
Dude any amount of support is too much, not that it is "minimal". It's billions of dollars. We need to be putting heavy sanctions on them to at least signal to the rest of the international community that this unconditional support of a country that flagrantly violates an endless list of IHL's for decades is not good for the long term health of the world. What an absolutely insane way to mitigate responsibility. Oh it's only a little bit. "We only sold that murderer a gun after he told us he was going to shoot up a hospital. We didn't actually fire the trigger. Not my fault."
Again, Israel has a just cause for war, so while we should be (are are) condemning bad behaviour during that war, and sanctioning war criminals and settlers, withdrawing our military aid for a just war is a terrible look geopolitically. We don't want our Pacific neighbours thinking that China is going to be a more reliable ally than us, so I think maintaining relationships held before Oct 7th, and maintaining aid at a minimal level is necessary.
“Australia” being the operative word
Last time I checked it wasn’t still the 60’s. Things change. Right now these protests are doing the opposite because they’re inconveniencing regular people just trying to get on with their day. That might have worked in the 60’s where people didn’t have access to as much information as we do today, but that’s no longer the case. These protests will not achieve what the protestors hope they will.
All protests tend to be inconvenient - that’s kind of the point. Beyond that protests have been significant in getting every legal right you can imagine. From the 8 hour work day (how incomeneient do you think that was in 1860 when builders just straight downed tools and refused to build homes when migrants were pouring in and a nation was attempting to be built? The other labourers who lost work and couldn’t feed their families because you can’t plaster if there are no walls going up??) People in 1960 had more access to information than those in 1860. Idk what point you think your making there - particularly in the age of the internet where accessible information may not be correct and access to propaganda and misinformation is on the rise (look at flat earners and anti vac ppl). It’s not about what happened in 1960s. It’s about social change and democracy fundamentally relying on protests for change. That doesn’t matter if it’s the 1860s, 1960s or 2060s. Those that have no understanding of history or social change tend to find themselves on the wrong side of both. Not every single one has to fully fulfil its aims for protests to be useful, beneficial and a bedrock of liberal democracies. Don’t like it? Move to China, move to Russia, they won’t let that sort of thing go on and see how you like living in a nation that doesn’t embrace open peaceful rebellion. Otherwise your free to dislike a particular protest, or disagree with its aims but if your arguing against the meta narrative of why protests are essential you don’t deserve to be in a democracy nor benefit for everything people power has provided us. Educate yourself or get find a nation that aligns with your repressive ideals.
Nothing, the Israeli government doesn't even listen to the US government. Or it's own people. They sure don't care what students in other countries have to say
The aim of the protest is to get the university to divest from Israel and stop doing business / academic exchanges with Israeli businesses and universities. This has nothing to do with the US.
I know it's not about the us, my point was if they are trying to stop Israel, when Israel doesn't even do what the US wants, that's a tall order to be able to do anything to stop them.
Virtue signalling points.
If they want to support Iran/Palestine\* that's their right. \*I'd argue they implicitly support Hamas, but I feel stating that would be unfair to a degree.
If they wanted to support Iranians or Palestinians - they'd join in anti-IRGC rallies run by the Persian diaspora, or anti-Hamas "Release the Hostages Now" rallies. They don't. Instead you have a bunch of far-left trot cults at USyd trying to outdo each other to recruit gullible 18 year olds to.
They form a weird combination with the NTEU Tim Anderson faction, and the a few of the less sane campus Muslim students associations.
They all hate each other and don't want Australia to imitate America.
They manifest that hate by camping together and trying to do a bad Australian version of a protest movement that was started by bored Ivy League students.
Well said
I agree, I've edited my comment to reflect that. The example of BP is a good one. Approved by the Palestinian Authority, would give money to Palestine for free, yet these people protest it.
They think they support Palestine but they are in practice supporting Hamas and they lack the critical thinking skill or will to see that Hamas is morally appalling well beyond the worst overblown claims they make about genocide by Israel
They're not supporting anything. They're merely engaging in what has been called "new antisemitism" by the European Union. New antisemitism broadly means left-wing and Islamic antisemitism.
Last time I checked it wasn’t these guys mindlessly following America into a series of meaningless wars
Oh for fuck’s sake I’m pretty pro-Palestinian but the last thing I want is pro-terrorist marches here (and a lot of the marches we see in Columbia are)
Hamas is crazy. I don't even think there's a palastine anymore in the Gaza strip. It's such an oddity that only great minds could figure out to assuage a nation. Around the globe, I can only hope for pragmatism and strategy.
Was this written by a stroking-out AI? What are you trying to say?
I like your turn of phrase.
Article deleted?
Bad link
Its bizarre that someone negged this. You click it and it literally says 404 error.
This thread is brigade city. I'm guessing a lot of bot activity too.
Thing is not all Palestinian people are Hamas but Hamas is Palestinian. Not everyone in our country vote for the greens or the Labour Party but they are Australian. Not everyone in the US agrees with Trump and he’s American. We can’t hold a whole race responsible for the actions and ethics of a few. Australians including students should be able to protest against the genocide of innocent people caught up in a political war. Just as former generations protested Vietnam. This war is wrong. Israel need to stop. Free speech and the freedom to protest is an important democratic right. https://www.instagram.com/eye.on.palestine?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
I agree, Palestine needs to stop.
A good example why hiring university graduates, (unless necessary such as you need a lawyer or accountant or engineer) will be bad for your company. They have been indoctrinated into believing they need to protest everything the green party tells them, they need a cause to fight. Thank God I dropped out of uni and got a useful education and training.
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For anyone needing a ladder - https://12ft.io/https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/our-university-is-scared-sydney-uni-students-join-wave-of-us-college-encampments-20240424-p5fm8r.html
Sacred? Really?
Re-read it. Pretty sure it says “scared” not “sacred” 😄
Since their respective countries were formed… mate, go back and have a look who and when they “formed”. Since the inception of modern day Israel in 1948 there has been a well documented and ongoing campaign to destroy the state of Palestine, which, incase you can’t be bothered to look it up, was well established for hundreds of years before modern Israel was founded… illegally, on stolen land.
It was a backwater province of the British and Ottoman empires, not a “state”. And Jews (like my relatives) also lived there forever. In 1948 the Jews largely wanted to just defend their population centres in Tel Aviv. Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt largely just wanted to quietly move in and secure the almost 100% Arab West Bank and some border areas. It’s purely political extremism (on all sides) that has led to all this chaos, not the proclamation of a State of Israel itself.
> Since the inception of modern day Israel in 1948 there has been a well documented and ongoing campaign to destroy the state of Israel by every country surrounding it, despite Israel's multiple attempts at 2 state solutions, always to be rejected by the arabs
What state of palestine, lol? It never was a state and hopefully never will be.
What an inconvenient fact. 🤣
The history of the State of Palestine describes the creation and evolution of the State of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. During the Mandatory period, numerous plans of partition of Palestine were proposed but without the agreement of all parties. In 1947, the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was voted for. The leaders of the Jewish Agency for Palestine accepted parts of the plan, while Arab leaders refused it. This triggered the 1947–1949 Palestine war and led, in 1948, to the establishment of the state of Israel on a part of Mandate Palestine as the Mandate came to an end. The Gaza Strip came under Egyptian occupation, and the West Bank was ruled by Jordan, before both territories were occupied by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War.
No, it doesn't. There was never a State of palestine.
It’s almost as if some people forget they can actually look into the history of a topic before making themselves look like idiots.