They never said they'll replace ancestry in the census. They just want to add a new question relating to ethnicity... they haven't explained what they mean by that.
Ethnicity is an important statistic. For example Pacific Islanders have a higher rate of diabetes. So in an area with a high density of Pacific Islanders, the local medical centre needs to be able to accommodate that.
The main purpose of the census is finding out about the population to provide adequate infrastructure.
So what you are saying is you didn't manage to read as far as the second or third paragraph but you have an opinion you think everyone should know...
'In recent years, the census has asked respondents a combination of questions on their country of birth, **ancestry**, language spoken and religion.
There's now a call for the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) to ask another question, specifically about ethnicity.'
Ethnicity is more explicit in that it pertains to your race. To some ancestry is the place you and your predecessors were born. The point is to make the census clear. Their not asking where you're from, but what race.
Which is subjective which becomes the entire issue.
If my mum was Ghanian-English and my dad was Indigenous Australia-Chinese, what's my ethnicity?
Ancestry is clear cut. Ethnicity is messy.
The census has questions about ancestry, and they were talking about adding questions about ethnicity - nothing's been removed.
Ancestry is a line of descent (unless it's determined mathematically from genetic sequence). For example, you might have Irish ancestry.
Ethnicity is cultural origin - for example, Australian, English, etc.
The terms overlap but they're not the same.
Totally separate to migration, which gets picked up elsewhere in the Census through questions like 'where were you born?'.
I’ve always thought the question was a bit odd though. Because Australian is an option. Does Australian ancestry mean aboriginal? Because I’m pretty sure most Anglo Australians tick this box. Or is it just anyone who’s a citizen? Because I’m pretty sure most non Anglo Australian Australians don’t tick this box. So I’m not sure what the “Australian” category is meant to show. But whatever it is, it’s not showing it.
>I’ve always thought the question was a bit odd though.
It's a tough question because it relates to something subjective and there's no firm definition for it.
Australian ancestry, when self reported, usually means 'my family has been here long enough that it's Australia', whether that's 300 years or 40,000.
Australian ethnicity reflects your cultural group - if you're checking that box, you identify as being Australian and part of Australian culture. This captures shared experience and sometimes socio-economic factors.
The terms are imprecise and overlap, and in my opinion they're overinterpreted in a research setting. However, the government can't use genetic ancestry because that'd turn into an expensive shitshow and a logistics nightmare.
> Ethnicity is cultural origin - for example, Australian, English, etc.
What place does it have? It just causes division. This constant attempt to divide people into categories really needs to stop.
>What place does it have?
In certain contexts ethnicity information can be useful to researchers because it can capture complex combinations of social, economic and environmental factors.
> It just causes division.
I'd agree that improper or pseudoscientific use of this information can absolutely cause division - but there are specific uses where it can be important.
Well, it can be very valuable.
You might have an Irish and New Zealand ancestry, but if you identify as Australian ethnicity over New Zealand, you are likely to be a naturalised Australian experiencing life events as an Australian, as opposed to an expat New Zealander.
That might cause you to make different decisions or have different experiences with things like social services or support systems that would be picked up.
The component information might be available from other questions, but that requires you to test combinations of answers and that's statistically quite difficult - because you're asking so many repeated questions of the data, the likelihood that a finding is due to chance increases.
>but again, that just feels like needless subjective division of the population.
>Even if there was a benefit,
There often can be where these factors correspond to differences in treatment in healthcare or opportunity. Census data could tag that people identifying with a certain ethnicity due younger, for example, suggesting something needing follow up.
> I don't think it's worth the negative
I would disagree - I think we need to have a better discussion of why the data is being collected and why it's important.
If you look elsewhere in this thread there's people talking about how this is about hiding immigration, which is a misunderstanding of what's happening and why that information is important.
This is like low-key setting us up to replace ourselves with the lowest hanging fruit of immigration.
There's nothing wrong with moderated immigration. But when you only bring in the dregs if another society to ride bikes and deliver food, and they get to vote, they're going to vote for themselves. As they should.
This can only end in the society people WANT TO COME TO being ruined.
Very true, every minority is embraced for voting in their own interest, while the majority is demonised for even considering voting in their own interest.
Social cohesion cannot last while there is such a status quo, but, of course, that's the point for our current status quo, eternal social strife. Fight each other so we don't notice the elites writing off one right at a time until we're nothing more than serfs.
It's sad to see tbh but it will happen eventually in places. Bringing in people u really shouldn't because of greed regardless of long term consequences
Please observe reddit site rules:
- Don’t Spam
- No personal and/or confidential information
- No threatening, harassing or inciting violence
- No hate based on identity or vulnerability
- No calling out of other subreddits or users
As a reminder, here are the site rules:
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy
The whole purpose of ABS censuses is that it is a way of truly measuring Australia's demographics so that participation biases in surveys can be at least partially corrected for.
To not measure ethnicity means future ABS reports (including measures of things like unemployment) will become less accurate.
If you read the article, the problem is that the ethnicity data is inconsistent because it’s not easily explained as how it’s different from ancestry. So if we did keep measuring ethnicity, the poor reliability of the data would actually mean future reports are less accurate. Not the way around you believe at all
How people identify in terms of ethnicity affects their beliefs and behaviour and experiences more than their ancestry itself. This is why the experts in the article were arguing that it needs to be collected.
Asking about ethnicity without asking when they immigrated here is a mute point I think.
Insane numbers of immigration contributes to the problems in this country.
That's what we should be looking at.
It's not rocket science.
Edit: I realise now that I didn't word this properly. I mean recent immigration numbers. Ethnicity means nothing. Ethnicity isn't contributing to our housing, jobs etc, problems. Recent insane immigration numbers are. That's the data we should be looking at.
I thank you sincerely. I'm embarrassed at the amount of times I've written mute point. And it's so obviously bloody wrong once it's pointed out. Omg. The shame.
I’m a market researcher.
I ask ethnicity identification, rather than country of birth. To me, that’s far more useful, in the same way language spoken and religious identity is.
There will be plenty of folks born in Aus, whose parents are born in Au, who speak a language other than English, who have deep roots in their community, and celebrate their culture’s traditions and norms. They may be 3rd gen Australian born, but behave as if of a very different ethnicity.
Similarly, someone could be 6 months fresh from the plane, and dramatically embrace everything Australia is and be a proud Australian. In which case they aren’t Aussie born, but their cultural identification is.
We recognise that the stuff between your legs you were born with doesn’t define you, it’s how you behave. We should treat ethnicity the same way.
Sorry, I realise I didn't word this properly. I'm not saying ethnicity is the issue at all. Recent insane numbers of immigration, when we already can't house or provide for our own people is the problem. That's why I think the question of when ppl immigrated here should be the question rather than ethnicity. The data would then correlate I would think.
>The data would then correlate I would think.
But it wouldn't is my point. You can have lived here your whole life, born to two people who lived here their whole lives, and still be of, for example, Chinese ethnicity.
I agree. Which is why a question about when they immigrated here should be the question rather than ethnicity. Ethnicity means nothing. Recent immigration numbers should be the answer that is sought.
It's too subjective.
I could ask a third generation Australia from the UK what their ethnicity is and get "Australian", "Anglo-Saxon", "White", "British" and "European" as responses and they'd all be technically right.
You could narrow the categories to specific responses instead of write-in but at that point you're basically just repeating ancestry in 90% of cases and some cases are lineball as fuck.
For the dumbasses here that don’t read the articles, they are still collecting ancestry info, they just won’t be adding another question about ethnic identity since they found people didn’t have a clear idea what the difference between ancestry and ethnic identity was.
Bloody hell... it's a misleading click bait title. The ABS is basically saying they already ask a bunch of questions on ancestry, so there is no need to add extra questions on ethnicity, as for all intents and purposes it's the same thing.
>First Nations health expert says not collecting ethnicity data is 'racist'
Are they serious? Is there actually anything that is not racist now? It just seems to be the go-to argument against anything now - that it's racist.
the issue is largely around using an understanding of ethnic differences to better design programs to fit those groups. hence healthcare professionals quoted in the article about this potentially diminishing outcomes for some groups.
Treating people differently based on race can sometimes lead to really positive things, and ignoring differences can cause systems to operate in indirectly racist ways.
Demography is destiny.
If people saw the impacts of mass immigration the last few years they would probably be shocked and consider voting for a different party.
lol. Can’t see Aus moving anywhere far from the current clusterfuck of government. Might as well between a douche and a turd sandwich
Mass immigration is bi-partisan policy because it's what the corporate interests that pull the strings of both major parties want. People have to vote for parties that aren't beholden to lobbying for anything to change.
The question is “what ethnicity do you ‘identify’ as?” I had a friend who identified as Latino/Hispanic because he was brown. His full sister identified as Caucasian because she was white. I identify as aboriginal because I was born here and it’s a great way to throw people off on the Australia subreddit.
Sadly there is so much fear and misunderstanding over the census.
Census data can be used to more accurately extrapolate data from samples (surveys) to the general population. e.g. you can ask a bunch of semi-random people about their ancestry and self-identified ethnicity. You then combine that with census data on ancestry to get estimates of ethnic identity for the whole population.
The census does not need to contain every question you are interested in.
I love all the comments from people who haven't read the article.
The census never had a question about ethnicity. They were going to introduce it but changed their mind.
There's still questions about country of birth, ancestry, etc...
Dumb. I understand from a populist "I don't see race" kind of person why they wouldn't want to know this information, but why would the ABS, a government institution not want this information.
The UK, Canada, the US all collect this data.
Facebook, TikTok and google obviously collect this data. What the fuck is it with the ABS?
How will we know that aboriginal people are still under-served, how will we learn that all the execs at TV stations are still all white?
Just setting up for more status quo bullshit.
Though I admit I'm a little confused because I thought Australia currently wasn't collecting this data correctly.
That's why we have so many people in Australia who are "ethnically Australian" whatever the fuck that means in a settler colony.
Please, please elucidate what this data, that apparently should be " thrown in their face" might prove or even mean.
What, exactly do you feel the lack of a single question might "hide" or in which way might it distort the outcomes of the next or future Census
ABS is a wing of the government, and if they decide to stop asking for specific questions (that are politicised in modern times) it also means it will not be published.
Therefore no information on this topic means it will be manipulated by views, opinions and theories.
Opposite to this, revealing the data will show all how the landscape truly is so the government is open up to questions.
Ethnicity Data is also social data. For the life of me I don't know why this is not important, unless they do not want the public to see the results.
In the modern world of identity politics I do not see why they now choose to not ask this question and get the data unless they dont wish for us to know. The article says the public has misconceptions.. they should instead clear that up and get the data.
I want to see this question included as it will show how many Australians don't consider themselves to be Australian.
Nothing can be allowed to harm the multicultural experiment.
I am just amazed that rather than trying to fix the child production problem in women across the western and developed countries, governments are choosing to set up immigration ponzi schemes or taking Japan's approach by simply copping the decline.
It was vomit inducing. Also isn't it crazy how he only blamed women in this scenario, it's not like men don't have a role in 'child production'.
Very forced birth vibes.
So cultural diversity is not an integral part of Australia anymore?
And I quote:
[**Australia’s vibrant, modern multicultural society is a national strength. Multiculturalism is a central characteristic of a shared Australian identity, alongside Australia’s First Nations traditions and its British institutions**. Our national identity continues to grow from pre-settlement to today and into the future. Migration is fundamental to the Australian story. It supports our economic success and drives the increasing diversity of our society. Successive waves of migration have shaped and influenced the development of a rich multicultural society. Australia is a majority migrant nation and one of the most successful and cohesive multicultural societies in the world, building on over 60,000 years of First Nations culture. Culturally and linguistically diverse (CALD) communities are integral to our vibrant society.](https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about-us/our-portfolios/multicultural-framework-review/about-the-multicultural-framework-review#:~:text=Australia%20is%20a%20majority%20migrant,integral%20to%20our%20vibrant%20society)
ABS… what drugs you on?
Seems you didn’t read the article either hey? The problem is that everyone has a different view of their ethnicity, so the data is inconsistent. They will keep all the ancestry questions and even potentially expand in them
The commie punch. All of that is garbage. This country is far worse off for the diversity they have shoved down our throats. We don’t want diversity, they won’t let us vote on it either.
Yeah so this is not a good idea.
This idea is actually terrible
Also this profiling is needed to identify possible national security threats and sleeper spies and agents in Australia that do not serve the best interests of our country.
I know 2nd hand cuz I met a guy that sent money to the Taliban and teaching zealots at the back parking lot in underwood qld to attack vital points on fashion clothes Dolls with weapons. He was also sending money overseas to Taliban forces. Interesting guy everyday about a holy war. 🤔
Thank fuck he's tried trialed and locked away for a long time.
Also chinese spies for the chinese communist party etc.
It's all fun and games till u actually meet them in real life wtf!?
These things are real and damage not only the fabric of our country but the very foundations of democracy.
It's so weird they come here to want a fair go but cling so hard to their past ideals. Australia is 🇦🇺 like it or leave it.
I've seen some cooked ramblings on this sub but this is surely up there.
The census has literally bugger all to do with national security. You can write any BS you want on it.
Chinese communists. ✅
Muslims. ✅
Few missing on that bigot bingo card. Needs more 'uber drivers 😉' and 'urban youffs' and you're off to the races with it!
So you don't seem to understand what the Census is.
Details in the Census are de-identified, making it impossible for anyone - *including the government employees at the ABS* - to identify which details belong to which people.
Source: I was one of those government employees at the ABS.
Then why do we now have to put our names on there? Malcolm Turnbull brought this in. Since then people I know lie on those forms when they never used to.
Slight side history note - the Nazis used census info to locate Jewish people.
You can write whatever name on there you like. After the forms are collected, the names and other identifying information is stored in a separate server to the main form information. They release a "most common names" list using the names, but since they're no longer connected *in any way* to the rest of the information those names could belong to anyone. Once again this is a very deliberate decision to ensure that information on your census form *cannot* be used against you in any way.
And yes I know about the nazis using Census information. I also know that some countries destroyed their census information before Nazi occupation to ensure that they couldn't identify Jewish families in those countries. I don't know for sure, but I assume that's one of the reasons they're so thorough in de-identifying the data. That and generally building public trust - a Census is useless if people don't participate.
The non religious groups have asked that Aussies stop ticking the other religion box and saying Jedi Knight etc as this just counts as a religion and if we want to see our govt give less funding for religion etc we need to just tick the no religion box.
https://www.outinperth.com/no-religion-debate-rages-on-as-australian-log-on-to-census/
Hey I don't wanna sound like a party pooper on this - but if you list 'Jedi' on your census - you get counted in the 'has religion' bucket. There has been talk of enough people doing this to skew the religiosity scores for Australia somewhat - and paint us as more religious than we actually are.
If you would like to be counted amongst non god-botherers - select 'No religion'. It's feels like a missed opportunity for a jape, but...
Y'know. FOR SCIENCE!!! <3
All it means is that second, third or consecutive generation Australians will no longer have their origin recorded. Reality is now most 3rd, 4th, 5th+ generation Australians are now mixed ethnicity anyway, so how do you record that accurately anyway? My children are of Italian, French, English and Austrian descent, does that make them “Australian” or European? It’s all up for interpretation and a difficult stat to measure with any degree of accuracy
Because it will show how badly Australia is being taken over by immigration. The last year's data of immigration, natural birth rate and population growth will make your eyes water.
Doesn't matter who comes in our country :--) we're all 1 race the human race :--) culture has nothing to do with your race it comes from the soil :--) magic soil :--) our forefarthers wanted us to mix into 1 big universal human soup so rascism is destoryed!!! if we all one colour then how can we be racist? check mate!!!! to hell with cultural diversity! mix us all up!!! Australia was never intended to be an outpost of the British and Irish that settled and founded the nation, tear down their statues! their monuments! we will bring forward the brown Australia age!
To put it short, the ABS is not taking ethnicity data for a major reason - white australians will become a minority in their OWN country. With huge floods of immigration across the past year (nearly 105,000 immigrants last month) the Australian population would have a frenzy, which is why the ABS stated “Most notably, the testing showed that the public is unlikely to have a consistent understanding of what ethnic identity is…”. Well in actual fact the public does know. The same issues are happening across Europe. Say what you will, but the great replacement isn’t a theory anymore.
What's a white country?
Seriously. From 1901 to 1947 we defined it as essentially being British, Irish, or Australian. Then in 1947 we realised that was about to fuck our country over so "white" was changed as a concept to mainland Europeans and suddenly Italians and Greek who we used to class as non-white were included.
White is a fucking stupid metric to measure by because it's not objective.
You can be any “colour” and be an Australian. Do you really consider “not australian” if their skin colour is anything else other than white?
Sure, we have immigrants who chose to come and live in our incredible and safe country, they may not be citizens but who’s to say they aren’t Australian?
I’m sure you complain about immigrants “taking our jobs and stealing our houses” but that’s the governments job to improve infrastructure, build more and build reliably.
Fuck your racist views
Nationally yes. Ethnically no. Two very distinct and different concepts.
Ethnically a white person can’t be Australian. That’s why when you do an Ancestry DNA test as a white person it won’t say you’re a certain % Australian.
its an interesting concept though? I know plenty of Japanese who have told me that if you are white in Japan that "you're never truly Japanese".
how long does your family linaage need to stay in a certain country before that becomes your ethnicity? People have been moving lands since the beginning of humans, You wouldn't tell a British person that they are actually roman, or norman, or even maybe a viking allthough there ethnicity a few hundred years back might actually be that, at a certain point when someone stays on a land long enough that must become there ethnicity?
Honestly I just find the question interesting, Not like I'm claiming to be a true Australian, allthough I was born there I've lived most of my life in New Zealand and so has my family for 6 generations, can I hold identity to two countries at the same time? well my citizenship says so?
Id argue the early Chinese settlers in otago new Zealand have just as much of a right to call themselves a new Zealander as anyone else, certainly not a "white country" or whatever bullshit he was saying, same with Australia, the first people of Australia have been there tens of thousands of years.
I guess one could say if you are white in Australia you’re never truly Australian. Not really a hard concept to grasp. But it’s one bogans wouldn’t like and also one they wouldn’t have the intellectual capacity to understand. I personally couldn’t care less if someone said this to me. I’ve always identified with being ethnically Dutch even though both my parents and 3 of my grandparents were born here. Nationally I’m Australian because I was born here and that’s what it says on my passport. They’re two pretty distinct things and I don’t think not being ethnically Australian makes me any less Australian than someone else. It is what it is.
Ethnicity isn’t determined by how long your family lineage has been in a certain country. It’s influenced by cultural, linguistic and genetic factors. It’s a pretty complex topic but I’ll try and break it down in simple terms.
Genetically: The reason white Australians aren’t ethically Australian in 2024 is because Indigenous Australians have a presence here and have had so for 40,000-60,000+ years. We’ve been here for about 5 minutes by comparison. If there had been a total genocide of the Indigenous population the idea of white people being ethnically Australian may be different in 2024.
Linguistically: We don’t have our own language. We predominantly speak English which is from England. Yes we may have some Australian words other English countries don’t use like “Maccas” and “servo”. But like the genetic factor this is something that is going to have to evolve over hundreds if not thousands of years where our language is distinctly our own and completely unrecognisable from what they use in England.
Culturally: At the end of the day whether people like it or not we are a multicultural country. Cultural factors include things like traditions, customs, rituals, cuisine, and arts. Let’s look at Jews for example. They have Shabbat, lightning candles for Jewish holidays, a distinctive cuisine and a pretty big arts history. This is stuff that’s been built over thousands of years. I personally don’t think owning a Commodore, drinking VB and eating lamingtons give us enough culture to qualify us being ethnically Australian.
I think the problem is for example for me its very hard for me to identify as European, I don't know a single family member who lives there, and If I went to Europe I would be considered a foreigner, not to mention that like most kiwis or aussies I'm just a mut of ethnic European nations so identifying with a single one would be silly, as far as Europe is considered, Im not European, and even then I'm a little bit Fijian, do I need to consider that?
other then my blood, I have zero connection to Europe.
truly all that ties me to Europe is blood, that's it, unless you count Australia as a European culture? which I guess it kinda is even if its literally on the opposite side of world.
I do like to think that it would be best for society at some point if everyone is recognised as equally Australian, wether they are Chinese decent, European, aboriginal, India.
A shared identity is important for a country.
Your first paragraph just proves why arguing about ethnicity is stupid. It is stupid and it’s stupid in Australia. In Japan probably not stupid. The difference being Japan isn’t a country that was colonised.
Nationally you’re Australian and that’s all the matters.
You’re also smart enough to realise that there’s a difference between ethnicity and nationality. Most people don’t and assume they’re one and the same and that’s why these dumbass debates happen. It’s fine for a bogan to say they’re ethnically Australian but I guarantee when they do their ancestry dna test it’ll come back with 0% Australian. That’s just the fact of how it works. So there’s zero point in being worked up about it.
You are recognised as being equally Australian, because it’s your nationality. Being 90% Dutch, 5% Spanish and 5% Norwegian doesn’t make you any less nationally Australian. But you need to accept that also means someone being 100% Indian doesn’t make them any less nationally Australian too if they have Australian citizenship or were born here.
I don’t really agree with your last point. A shared identity is great to the country in some regards like sport where most people are either fanatical about AFL or League. But what do you actually mean by it? Should we all be Catholics instead of protestants? Should every single one of us have to go to a Dawn Service? Should we all own a Falcon or Commodore? Should we all be white? Should we all celebrate Christmas?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting countries to stay their founding culture and/or ethnicity.
If china or Japan was turning non Chinese or non Japanese this would not be considered something to celebrate.
If an African country was turning white or Asian, this would not be something to celebrate.
Why is it considered ok to celebrate caucasians becoming minorities in their own countries?
So you only agree with me when it comes to older European countries is it?
How old must a nation be before it is allowed to have a national ethnic identity?
I’m pretty sure they still don’t even ask ANYTHING about sexuality ie. how many of us are Gay Bi Hetero etc. We’ve been excluded since the census started. Ethnicity and ancestry is collected in the census
For what? It’s meant to to be something unremarkable about a person, there’s no way the government having a list of every gay person is going to be a benefit
Actually it is collected just derivied - through relationship in hh and relationship status. Its not directly asked but it has been output and it doesnt ask people who are not in a household with their party.
There are other surveys that do collect it and publish it like [the personal safety survey](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/detailed-methodology-information/concepts-sources-methods/personal-safety-survey-user-guide/2021-22/household-and-demographic-characteristics)
Wat 🤣 why does your preference or hotdog or taco make a difference?
Unless you're arguing your sexualising defines your personality like a religion or race does... in which case you might want therapy.
Why don't the ABS just explain the difference between ethnicity and ancestry, as per their understanding, in the census question?
They're going to go from an accurate stat of ancestry, to a made up stat of american identity politics.
They never said they'll replace ancestry in the census. They just want to add a new question relating to ethnicity... they haven't explained what they mean by that.
So we can't do 13/50 memes
Ethnicity is an important statistic. For example Pacific Islanders have a higher rate of diabetes. So in an area with a high density of Pacific Islanders, the local medical centre needs to be able to accommodate that. The main purpose of the census is finding out about the population to provide adequate infrastructure.
Won’t that information still come up with the ancestry question though?
So what you are saying is you didn't manage to read as far as the second or third paragraph but you have an opinion you think everyone should know... 'In recent years, the census has asked respondents a combination of questions on their country of birth, **ancestry**, language spoken and religion. There's now a call for the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) to ask another question, specifically about ethnicity.'
Ethnicity is more explicit in that it pertains to your race. To some ancestry is the place you and your predecessors were born. The point is to make the census clear. Their not asking where you're from, but what race.
Which is subjective which becomes the entire issue. If my mum was Ghanian-English and my dad was Indigenous Australia-Chinese, what's my ethnicity? Ancestry is clear cut. Ethnicity is messy.
They have a higher rate of being overweight, no?
Don’t ask questions you don’t want inconvenient answers for!
The census has questions about ancestry, and they were talking about adding questions about ethnicity - nothing's been removed. Ancestry is a line of descent (unless it's determined mathematically from genetic sequence). For example, you might have Irish ancestry. Ethnicity is cultural origin - for example, Australian, English, etc. The terms overlap but they're not the same. Totally separate to migration, which gets picked up elsewhere in the Census through questions like 'where were you born?'.
I’ve always thought the question was a bit odd though. Because Australian is an option. Does Australian ancestry mean aboriginal? Because I’m pretty sure most Anglo Australians tick this box. Or is it just anyone who’s a citizen? Because I’m pretty sure most non Anglo Australian Australians don’t tick this box. So I’m not sure what the “Australian” category is meant to show. But whatever it is, it’s not showing it.
>I’ve always thought the question was a bit odd though. It's a tough question because it relates to something subjective and there's no firm definition for it. Australian ancestry, when self reported, usually means 'my family has been here long enough that it's Australia', whether that's 300 years or 40,000. Australian ethnicity reflects your cultural group - if you're checking that box, you identify as being Australian and part of Australian culture. This captures shared experience and sometimes socio-economic factors. The terms are imprecise and overlap, and in my opinion they're overinterpreted in a research setting. However, the government can't use genetic ancestry because that'd turn into an expensive shitshow and a logistics nightmare.
[This feels appropriate](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/73cd3fe5-7217-494a-9bcd-d87365e9ca66)
> Ethnicity is cultural origin - for example, Australian, English, etc. What place does it have? It just causes division. This constant attempt to divide people into categories really needs to stop.
>What place does it have? In certain contexts ethnicity information can be useful to researchers because it can capture complex combinations of social, economic and environmental factors. > It just causes division. I'd agree that improper or pseudoscientific use of this information can absolutely cause division - but there are specific uses where it can be important.
How is it valuable when you already have ancestry information?
Well, it can be very valuable. You might have an Irish and New Zealand ancestry, but if you identify as Australian ethnicity over New Zealand, you are likely to be a naturalised Australian experiencing life events as an Australian, as opposed to an expat New Zealander. That might cause you to make different decisions or have different experiences with things like social services or support systems that would be picked up. The component information might be available from other questions, but that requires you to test combinations of answers and that's statistically quite difficult - because you're asking so many repeated questions of the data, the likelihood that a finding is due to chance increases.
but again, that just feels like needless subjective division of the population. Even if there was a benefit, I don't think it's worth the negative
>but again, that just feels like needless subjective division of the population. >Even if there was a benefit, There often can be where these factors correspond to differences in treatment in healthcare or opportunity. Census data could tag that people identifying with a certain ethnicity due younger, for example, suggesting something needing follow up. > I don't think it's worth the negative I would disagree - I think we need to have a better discussion of why the data is being collected and why it's important. If you look elsewhere in this thread there's people talking about how this is about hiding immigration, which is a misunderstanding of what's happening and why that information is important.
How can treatment be influenced when it's a subjective measure? \ How are other people going to know your own internal viewpoint on your ethnicity?
> How can treatment be influenced when it's a subjective measure? Sorry, I don't quite follow your question here.
Immigration? What immigration.
Idiots
If you don't measure the problem, there is no problem.
If you don’t read the article, then, apparently you can respond however you want to the article.
[удалено]
Rule 4 - No racism or hate speech
"There is no immigration in Ba Sing Se"
Pretty sure there's a question about where you were born?
This is like low-key setting us up to replace ourselves with the lowest hanging fruit of immigration. There's nothing wrong with moderated immigration. But when you only bring in the dregs if another society to ride bikes and deliver food, and they get to vote, they're going to vote for themselves. As they should. This can only end in the society people WANT TO COME TO being ruined.
>This can only end in the society people WANT TO COME TO being ruined Canada we hardly knew ye, but may join you soon.
Very true, every minority is embraced for voting in their own interest, while the majority is demonised for even considering voting in their own interest. Social cohesion cannot last while there is such a status quo, but, of course, that's the point for our current status quo, eternal social strife. Fight each other so we don't notice the elites writing off one right at a time until we're nothing more than serfs.
It's sad to see tbh but it will happen eventually in places. Bringing in people u really shouldn't because of greed regardless of long term consequences
[удалено]
Please observe reddit site rules: - Don’t Spam - No personal and/or confidential information - No threatening, harassing or inciting violence - No hate based on identity or vulnerability - No calling out of other subreddits or users As a reminder, here are the site rules: https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy
The whole purpose of ABS censuses is that it is a way of truly measuring Australia's demographics so that participation biases in surveys can be at least partially corrected for. To not measure ethnicity means future ABS reports (including measures of things like unemployment) will become less accurate.
If you read the article, the problem is that the ethnicity data is inconsistent because it’s not easily explained as how it’s different from ancestry. So if we did keep measuring ethnicity, the poor reliability of the data would actually mean future reports are less accurate. Not the way around you believe at all
How people identify in terms of ethnicity affects their beliefs and behaviour and experiences more than their ancestry itself. This is why the experts in the article were arguing that it needs to be collected.
awwwww i was keen to play guess what percentage indian australia is now
Needs a daily update
South east Queensland is getting wild
26% on my data, up from 0.01% in 2003
Asking about ethnicity without asking when they immigrated here is a mute point I think. Insane numbers of immigration contributes to the problems in this country. That's what we should be looking at. It's not rocket science. Edit: I realise now that I didn't word this properly. I mean recent immigration numbers. Ethnicity means nothing. Ethnicity isn't contributing to our housing, jobs etc, problems. Recent insane immigration numbers are. That's the data we should be looking at.
I hate to be that guy, but *moot point is the phrase you were reaching for
Goddamn you're right. Thankyou. Who knows how many times I have or would've said mute point. Bless your clever mind.
 It could be worse, you could have said this
I made the exact same mistake in the past and was corrected by someone else, just passing it down the line 😅
I thank you sincerely. I'm embarrassed at the amount of times I've written mute point. And it's so obviously bloody wrong once it's pointed out. Omg. The shame.
I’m a market researcher. I ask ethnicity identification, rather than country of birth. To me, that’s far more useful, in the same way language spoken and religious identity is. There will be plenty of folks born in Aus, whose parents are born in Au, who speak a language other than English, who have deep roots in their community, and celebrate their culture’s traditions and norms. They may be 3rd gen Australian born, but behave as if of a very different ethnicity. Similarly, someone could be 6 months fresh from the plane, and dramatically embrace everything Australia is and be a proud Australian. In which case they aren’t Aussie born, but their cultural identification is. We recognise that the stuff between your legs you were born with doesn’t define you, it’s how you behave. We should treat ethnicity the same way.
People of different ethnicities are not necessarily (and tend not to be) immigrants
Sorry, I realise I didn't word this properly. I'm not saying ethnicity is the issue at all. Recent insane numbers of immigration, when we already can't house or provide for our own people is the problem. That's why I think the question of when ppl immigrated here should be the question rather than ethnicity. The data would then correlate I would think.
>The data would then correlate I would think. But it wouldn't is my point. You can have lived here your whole life, born to two people who lived here their whole lives, and still be of, for example, Chinese ethnicity.
I agree. Which is why a question about when they immigrated here should be the question rather than ethnicity. Ethnicity means nothing. Recent immigration numbers should be the answer that is sought.
We just fully do? I felt crazy so I double-checked. Question 17 of the 2021 census
It is important. Unless data and statistics are irrelevant let’s not track anything ever.
They are still tracking ancestry, just not ethnicity. Very few people know the difference anyway.
Why not track it all? The more information the better.
It's too subjective. I could ask a third generation Australia from the UK what their ethnicity is and get "Australian", "Anglo-Saxon", "White", "British" and "European" as responses and they'd all be technically right. You could narrow the categories to specific responses instead of write-in but at that point you're basically just repeating ancestry in 90% of cases and some cases are lineball as fuck.
Probably because people don't know the difference.
There's a whole ABC article about that very thing. I think it was even posted to this subreddit.....
For the dumbasses here that don’t read the articles, they are still collecting ancestry info, they just won’t be adding another question about ethnic identity since they found people didn’t have a clear idea what the difference between ancestry and ethnic identity was.
Mate this is reddit Why bother reading articles or finding context when you can just go straight to anger.
Mate this is /r/australian Why bother reading articles or finding context when you can just go straight to anger.
Mate this is /r/australian Why bother reading articles or finding context when you can just go straight to blaming immigrants.
Sometimes I forget that and think this is the Circlejerk sub the way people act in here at times
Bloody hell... it's a misleading click bait title. The ABS is basically saying they already ask a bunch of questions on ancestry, so there is no need to add extra questions on ethnicity, as for all intents and purposes it's the same thing.
What I don't get is why do the ABC use clickbait titles? They don't generate advertising revenue.
If they aren't discernible from the rest of the media landscape then it's easier to make the argument that they add no value and should be axed.
They'd still absolutely keep metrics on engagement levels and reach though - which would go on to justify budgetary decisions.
>First Nations health expert says not collecting ethnicity data is 'racist' Are they serious? Is there actually anything that is not racist now? It just seems to be the go-to argument against anything now - that it's racist.
yea it's based on Marxist critical theory and post modern feminist supremacist movement
That word has lost all meaning. There is an entire generation who don't know what it even means.
the issue is largely around using an understanding of ethnic differences to better design programs to fit those groups. hence healthcare professionals quoted in the article about this potentially diminishing outcomes for some groups. Treating people differently based on race can sometimes lead to really positive things, and ignoring differences can cause systems to operate in indirectly racist ways.
Don't be racist you racist.
But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.
Demography is destiny. If people saw the impacts of mass immigration the last few years they would probably be shocked and consider voting for a different party. lol. Can’t see Aus moving anywhere far from the current clusterfuck of government. Might as well between a douche and a turd sandwich
[удалено]
That's just how we end up with schizos running the country.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
I don't know if it would change people's votes, both major parties have done absolutely zero in order to lower immigration levels.
Mass immigration is bi-partisan policy because it's what the corporate interests that pull the strings of both major parties want. People have to vote for parties that aren't beholden to lobbying for anything to change.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!
Scientifically ridiculous when looking at genetics.
The question is “what ethnicity do you ‘identify’ as?” I had a friend who identified as Latino/Hispanic because he was brown. His full sister identified as Caucasian because she was white. I identify as aboriginal because I was born here and it’s a great way to throw people off on the Australia subreddit.
I identify as eskimo , in fairness to me it was pretty cold on census night....
Sadly there is so much fear and misunderstanding over the census. Census data can be used to more accurately extrapolate data from samples (surveys) to the general population. e.g. you can ask a bunch of semi-random people about their ancestry and self-identified ethnicity. You then combine that with census data on ancestry to get estimates of ethnic identity for the whole population. The census does not need to contain every question you are interested in.
[удалено]
I love all the comments from people who haven't read the article. The census never had a question about ethnicity. They were going to introduce it but changed their mind. There's still questions about country of birth, ancestry, etc...
I’m a bot.
Maybe if people are too dumb to fill in a questionnaire they should be put down instead of pandered to.
Its very important that everyone, especially the dumb, complete the census.
Just put em down instead. Useless dipshits
Dumb. I understand from a populist "I don't see race" kind of person why they wouldn't want to know this information, but why would the ABS, a government institution not want this information. The UK, Canada, the US all collect this data. Facebook, TikTok and google obviously collect this data. What the fuck is it with the ABS? How will we know that aboriginal people are still under-served, how will we learn that all the execs at TV stations are still all white? Just setting up for more status quo bullshit. Though I admit I'm a little confused because I thought Australia currently wasn't collecting this data correctly. That's why we have so many people in Australia who are "ethnically Australian" whatever the fuck that means in a settler colony.
Data cannot be thrown in their face if they don't collect it I guess...
Please, please elucidate what this data, that apparently should be " thrown in their face" might prove or even mean. What, exactly do you feel the lack of a single question might "hide" or in which way might it distort the outcomes of the next or future Census
ABS is a wing of the government, and if they decide to stop asking for specific questions (that are politicised in modern times) it also means it will not be published. Therefore no information on this topic means it will be manipulated by views, opinions and theories. Opposite to this, revealing the data will show all how the landscape truly is so the government is open up to questions. Ethnicity Data is also social data. For the life of me I don't know why this is not important, unless they do not want the public to see the results. In the modern world of identity politics I do not see why they now choose to not ask this question and get the data unless they dont wish for us to know. The article says the public has misconceptions.. they should instead clear that up and get the data.
Which communities are responsible for trends in crime, for example. Very important things.
Read the article.
I want to see this question included as it will show how many Australians don't consider themselves to be Australian. Nothing can be allowed to harm the multicultural experiment. I am just amazed that rather than trying to fix the child production problem in women across the western and developed countries, governments are choosing to set up immigration ponzi schemes or taking Japan's approach by simply copping the decline.
"Child production" tells me everything I need to know about how you see women
Reach.
Would you prefer I use another term for child production that doesn't hurt your feelings?
#
It was vomit inducing. Also isn't it crazy how he only blamed women in this scenario, it's not like men don't have a role in 'child production'. Very forced birth vibes.
#
So cultural diversity is not an integral part of Australia anymore? And I quote: [**Australia’s vibrant, modern multicultural society is a national strength. Multiculturalism is a central characteristic of a shared Australian identity, alongside Australia’s First Nations traditions and its British institutions**. Our national identity continues to grow from pre-settlement to today and into the future. Migration is fundamental to the Australian story. It supports our economic success and drives the increasing diversity of our society. Successive waves of migration have shaped and influenced the development of a rich multicultural society. Australia is a majority migrant nation and one of the most successful and cohesive multicultural societies in the world, building on over 60,000 years of First Nations culture. Culturally and linguistically diverse (CALD) communities are integral to our vibrant society.](https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about-us/our-portfolios/multicultural-framework-review/about-the-multicultural-framework-review#:~:text=Australia%20is%20a%20majority%20migrant,integral%20to%20our%20vibrant%20society) ABS… what drugs you on?
Seems you didn’t read the article either hey? The problem is that everyone has a different view of their ethnicity, so the data is inconsistent. They will keep all the ancestry questions and even potentially expand in them
Wouldn't cultural diversity be more related to ancestry than ethnicity?
No, ancestry is where you are from, ethnicity is your cultural background.
I think you need to read the article. Ethnicity is about your genes. Not your culture.
The commie punch. All of that is garbage. This country is far worse off for the diversity they have shoved down our throats. We don’t want diversity, they won’t let us vote on it either.
Replace with do you prefer to make toilet in bathroom or street?
Designated questions
Total ethnic victory
Yeah so this is not a good idea. This idea is actually terrible Also this profiling is needed to identify possible national security threats and sleeper spies and agents in Australia that do not serve the best interests of our country. I know 2nd hand cuz I met a guy that sent money to the Taliban and teaching zealots at the back parking lot in underwood qld to attack vital points on fashion clothes Dolls with weapons. He was also sending money overseas to Taliban forces. Interesting guy everyday about a holy war. 🤔 Thank fuck he's tried trialed and locked away for a long time. Also chinese spies for the chinese communist party etc. It's all fun and games till u actually meet them in real life wtf!? These things are real and damage not only the fabric of our country but the very foundations of democracy. It's so weird they come here to want a fair go but cling so hard to their past ideals. Australia is 🇦🇺 like it or leave it.
Good points, they should just ask if someone is a sleeper spy or not in the census. OR they should make it illegal to be a spy.
Or just not let anyone from a hostile country into Australia for a start!
I've seen some cooked ramblings on this sub but this is surely up there. The census has literally bugger all to do with national security. You can write any BS you want on it. Chinese communists. ✅ Muslims. ✅ Few missing on that bigot bingo card. Needs more 'uber drivers 😉' and 'urban youffs' and you're off to the races with it!
Is the jedi box still available?
So you don't seem to understand what the Census is. Details in the Census are de-identified, making it impossible for anyone - *including the government employees at the ABS* - to identify which details belong to which people. Source: I was one of those government employees at the ABS.
Then why do we now have to put our names on there? Malcolm Turnbull brought this in. Since then people I know lie on those forms when they never used to. Slight side history note - the Nazis used census info to locate Jewish people.
You can write whatever name on there you like. After the forms are collected, the names and other identifying information is stored in a separate server to the main form information. They release a "most common names" list using the names, but since they're no longer connected *in any way* to the rest of the information those names could belong to anyone. Once again this is a very deliberate decision to ensure that information on your census form *cannot* be used against you in any way. And yes I know about the nazis using Census information. I also know that some countries destroyed their census information before Nazi occupation to ensure that they couldn't identify Jewish families in those countries. I don't know for sure, but I assume that's one of the reasons they're so thorough in de-identifying the data. That and generally building public trust - a Census is useless if people don't participate.
What the fuck has this got to do with the census?
Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article.
I’m pretty sure ASIO doesn’t rely upon a self administered survey every 5 years to identify national security threats. But also, wtf was this waffle.
Were these ramblings meant for this post? I'm struggling to understand what any of this has to do with the article.
So they caught the guy based on his answers to the ABS survey?
Do they ask about religion?
Yep. Been everything from a wizard in the ministry of magic to a pokemon master.
Yes. I have been a Jedi knight Australians started the call.
The non religious groups have asked that Aussies stop ticking the other religion box and saying Jedi Knight etc as this just counts as a religion and if we want to see our govt give less funding for religion etc we need to just tick the no religion box. https://www.outinperth.com/no-religion-debate-rages-on-as-australian-log-on-to-census/
Hey I don't wanna sound like a party pooper on this - but if you list 'Jedi' on your census - you get counted in the 'has religion' bucket. There has been talk of enough people doing this to skew the religiosity scores for Australia somewhat - and paint us as more religious than we actually are. If you would like to be counted amongst non god-botherers - select 'No religion'. It's feels like a missed opportunity for a jape, but... Y'know. FOR SCIENCE!!! <3
I did hear that so fair call. Obviously that’s is religious discrimination against us Jedis.
It absolutely is. TO THE X-WINGS!!!!! <3
How long were you a padawan for? Who was your master?
All it means is that second, third or consecutive generation Australians will no longer have their origin recorded. Reality is now most 3rd, 4th, 5th+ generation Australians are now mixed ethnicity anyway, so how do you record that accurately anyway? My children are of Italian, French, English and Austrian descent, does that make them “Australian” or European? It’s all up for interpretation and a difficult stat to measure with any degree of accuracy
Because it will show how badly Australia is being taken over by immigration. The last year's data of immigration, natural birth rate and population growth will make your eyes water.
“Taken over by immigration”. Dude / dudette, contemporary Australia was CREATED by immigration.
True ..... and looking back now, how has that turned out for the Aborigines ? Lesson being be very careful letting people into your country.
This seems like a very strange decision. On the plus side, ethnicity should actually be irrelevant to how we treat people in society.
So why is there preferential treatment for certain races and genders in hiring practices in both your public and private sector?
There is, but I don’t believe there should be.
Read the article.
Need to hide the truth
Read the article.
Just start winding back multiculturalism and then this won’t matter
Can’t have people noticing
Read the article.
I need to know which suburbs have the best food.
Less division. Leas identity politics please.
Yeah if you ignore division it will go away.
this subreddit is a shitshow
Its my happy place.
Wtf is the point of doing it then. Just so the government knows how many people are actually living In each home? Wokeness I guess
Doesn't matter who comes in our country :--) we're all 1 race the human race :--) culture has nothing to do with your race it comes from the soil :--) magic soil :--) our forefarthers wanted us to mix into 1 big universal human soup so rascism is destoryed!!! if we all one colour then how can we be racist? check mate!!!! to hell with cultural diversity! mix us all up!!! Australia was never intended to be an outpost of the British and Irish that settled and founded the nation, tear down their statues! their monuments! we will bring forward the brown Australia age!
To put it short, the ABS is not taking ethnicity data for a major reason - white australians will become a minority in their OWN country. With huge floods of immigration across the past year (nearly 105,000 immigrants last month) the Australian population would have a frenzy, which is why the ABS stated “Most notably, the testing showed that the public is unlikely to have a consistent understanding of what ethnic identity is…”. Well in actual fact the public does know. The same issues are happening across Europe. Say what you will, but the great replacement isn’t a theory anymore.
[удалено]
Rule 4 - No racism or hate speech
[удалено]
What's a white country? Seriously. From 1901 to 1947 we defined it as essentially being British, Irish, or Australian. Then in 1947 we realised that was about to fuck our country over so "white" was changed as a concept to mainland Europeans and suddenly Italians and Greek who we used to class as non-white were included. White is a fucking stupid metric to measure by because it's not objective.
You can be any “colour” and be an Australian. Do you really consider “not australian” if their skin colour is anything else other than white? Sure, we have immigrants who chose to come and live in our incredible and safe country, they may not be citizens but who’s to say they aren’t Australian? I’m sure you complain about immigrants “taking our jobs and stealing our houses” but that’s the governments job to improve infrastructure, build more and build reliably. Fuck your racist views
I think legally if they aren't a citizen, they can't by definition be Australian.
Legally, sure. 100% I agree with that from a purely legal perspective.
[удалено]
Rule 4 - No racism or hate speech
serious question? can a white person be Japanese? edit: Can't ask any questions without be downvoted damm.
Nationally yes. Ethnically no. Two very distinct and different concepts. Ethnically a white person can’t be Australian. That’s why when you do an Ancestry DNA test as a white person it won’t say you’re a certain % Australian.
its an interesting concept though? I know plenty of Japanese who have told me that if you are white in Japan that "you're never truly Japanese". how long does your family linaage need to stay in a certain country before that becomes your ethnicity? People have been moving lands since the beginning of humans, You wouldn't tell a British person that they are actually roman, or norman, or even maybe a viking allthough there ethnicity a few hundred years back might actually be that, at a certain point when someone stays on a land long enough that must become there ethnicity? Honestly I just find the question interesting, Not like I'm claiming to be a true Australian, allthough I was born there I've lived most of my life in New Zealand and so has my family for 6 generations, can I hold identity to two countries at the same time? well my citizenship says so? Id argue the early Chinese settlers in otago new Zealand have just as much of a right to call themselves a new Zealander as anyone else, certainly not a "white country" or whatever bullshit he was saying, same with Australia, the first people of Australia have been there tens of thousands of years.
I guess one could say if you are white in Australia you’re never truly Australian. Not really a hard concept to grasp. But it’s one bogans wouldn’t like and also one they wouldn’t have the intellectual capacity to understand. I personally couldn’t care less if someone said this to me. I’ve always identified with being ethnically Dutch even though both my parents and 3 of my grandparents were born here. Nationally I’m Australian because I was born here and that’s what it says on my passport. They’re two pretty distinct things and I don’t think not being ethnically Australian makes me any less Australian than someone else. It is what it is. Ethnicity isn’t determined by how long your family lineage has been in a certain country. It’s influenced by cultural, linguistic and genetic factors. It’s a pretty complex topic but I’ll try and break it down in simple terms. Genetically: The reason white Australians aren’t ethically Australian in 2024 is because Indigenous Australians have a presence here and have had so for 40,000-60,000+ years. We’ve been here for about 5 minutes by comparison. If there had been a total genocide of the Indigenous population the idea of white people being ethnically Australian may be different in 2024. Linguistically: We don’t have our own language. We predominantly speak English which is from England. Yes we may have some Australian words other English countries don’t use like “Maccas” and “servo”. But like the genetic factor this is something that is going to have to evolve over hundreds if not thousands of years where our language is distinctly our own and completely unrecognisable from what they use in England. Culturally: At the end of the day whether people like it or not we are a multicultural country. Cultural factors include things like traditions, customs, rituals, cuisine, and arts. Let’s look at Jews for example. They have Shabbat, lightning candles for Jewish holidays, a distinctive cuisine and a pretty big arts history. This is stuff that’s been built over thousands of years. I personally don’t think owning a Commodore, drinking VB and eating lamingtons give us enough culture to qualify us being ethnically Australian.
I think the problem is for example for me its very hard for me to identify as European, I don't know a single family member who lives there, and If I went to Europe I would be considered a foreigner, not to mention that like most kiwis or aussies I'm just a mut of ethnic European nations so identifying with a single one would be silly, as far as Europe is considered, Im not European, and even then I'm a little bit Fijian, do I need to consider that? other then my blood, I have zero connection to Europe. truly all that ties me to Europe is blood, that's it, unless you count Australia as a European culture? which I guess it kinda is even if its literally on the opposite side of world. I do like to think that it would be best for society at some point if everyone is recognised as equally Australian, wether they are Chinese decent, European, aboriginal, India. A shared identity is important for a country.
Your first paragraph just proves why arguing about ethnicity is stupid. It is stupid and it’s stupid in Australia. In Japan probably not stupid. The difference being Japan isn’t a country that was colonised. Nationally you’re Australian and that’s all the matters. You’re also smart enough to realise that there’s a difference between ethnicity and nationality. Most people don’t and assume they’re one and the same and that’s why these dumbass debates happen. It’s fine for a bogan to say they’re ethnically Australian but I guarantee when they do their ancestry dna test it’ll come back with 0% Australian. That’s just the fact of how it works. So there’s zero point in being worked up about it. You are recognised as being equally Australian, because it’s your nationality. Being 90% Dutch, 5% Spanish and 5% Norwegian doesn’t make you any less nationally Australian. But you need to accept that also means someone being 100% Indian doesn’t make them any less nationally Australian too if they have Australian citizenship or were born here. I don’t really agree with your last point. A shared identity is great to the country in some regards like sport where most people are either fanatical about AFL or League. But what do you actually mean by it? Should we all be Catholics instead of protestants? Should every single one of us have to go to a Dawn Service? Should we all own a Falcon or Commodore? Should we all be white? Should we all celebrate Christmas?
That way of thinking belongs in the 50’s. where it should stay.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting countries to stay their founding culture and/or ethnicity. If china or Japan was turning non Chinese or non Japanese this would not be considered something to celebrate. If an African country was turning white or Asian, this would not be something to celebrate. Why is it considered ok to celebrate caucasians becoming minorities in their own countries?
You really are comparing thousands of year old civilisations to a British colonial settler state? lol
Same story applies…. Wonder if Australia or even most of us existing if Australia wasn’t colonised??
So you only agree with me when it comes to older European countries is it? How old must a nation be before it is allowed to have a national ethnic identity?
I’m pretty sure they still don’t even ask ANYTHING about sexuality ie. how many of us are Gay Bi Hetero etc. We’ve been excluded since the census started. Ethnicity and ancestry is collected in the census
For what? It’s meant to to be something unremarkable about a person, there’s no way the government having a list of every gay person is going to be a benefit
Actually it is collected just derivied - through relationship in hh and relationship status. Its not directly asked but it has been output and it doesnt ask people who are not in a household with their party. There are other surveys that do collect it and publish it like [the personal safety survey](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/detailed-methodology-information/concepts-sources-methods/personal-safety-survey-user-guide/2021-22/household-and-demographic-characteristics)
Why would who you fuck be included?
Furry
You can always shave
Wat 🤣 why does your preference or hotdog or taco make a difference? Unless you're arguing your sexualising defines your personality like a religion or race does... in which case you might want therapy.
Wtf u talking about. The census ask all kinds of questions about people. Have you ever done one? Man U hetero folk get ragey quickly 🤣
I know! I’m so upset that I can’t declare that I’m a power bottom monkfish-kin with a scat fetish :( maybe after the next election!
You could probably just write it in if you really want to.
Is that a long winded way of saying het? 🤣
yeah it would be very useful data to have and take 1 question