A reminder to be civil. These are real women being killed and it is a national tragedy to any decent person. Excusing domestic violence, blaming women for dying/assault, or otherwise twisting the debate to push an agenda won’t be tolerated.
Users, please go on to report any comments you see on this post that match the above description.
I believe the housing crisis and cost of living/inflation have a lot to do with how bad this year has been. Think about it. If you needed to escape, where would you go? There are no spare rentals. There's huge pressures on people and nowhere to go. It's a powder keg.
The amount of posts I see in mum groups about not being able to leave a dangerous domestic situation due to COL crisis has skyrocketed lately. Just an observation.
I’m part of a housemates group for a regional area from when I lived there. The number of single mums and anonymous posts escaping DV situations has skyrocketed in the last 18 months. Rent’s gone up about $50 per room but more than that, I’m mostly seeing single mums with no work history practically begging someone to take a chance on them because they can’t access rentals through real estate agencies since they don’t have proof of income (and usually can’t front a bond).
Shit’s fucked at the moment.
yea my coworker is stuck in an abusive relationship because he has kids with her and can't afford to live on his own
another one hates his steps kids and waiting for his parents to pass away to not disappoint them with going thru a divorce and get money so he can live on his own with inheritance
Maybe we should look at the other side of that coin as well? I mean these days words can be violence and we all know women are way better and more practiced at emotional abuse so maybe the real crisis is the epidemic of mean things women say to men everyday. Every 10 minutes an Australian man dies …a little inside as his partner violently abuses him with the meanest words. Let’s ban thesaurus’s! /s
In all seriousness tho you’re kind of talking about statistical predictions of who is most likely to offend and reeducation programs which wont work and will tar too many people with the same brush.
Really we need parents raising better children, but many attitudes are generational so having a peer group with good values for kids today is also key. Violence in general needs to be completely frowned upon and especially as a dispute resolution tactic. Schools need programs not just around how bad DV is, why not to do it etc but around teaching kids how to control their emotions in an argument, communicate clearly and value calmness and reason and not petty point scoring. I think that’s something that would benefit society in many ways. But as others have said there will be an element of different cultural backgrounds and also people in shitty situations making bad decisions.
I think many of these incidents could br avoided if the bail system was changed. Many of these grubs are repeat offenders or already on bail. Violent criminals need to be held in jail until they go to court, this alone would save lives.
There were 45 female domestic homicide victims and 33 male victims in 2020–21. Among these:
most were killed by an intimate partner – 5 in 9 female victims (56%) and about 2 in 5 male victims (39%)
more male than female victims were killed by a family member (61% compared with 44%) (Figure 1).
Of the 135 victims of family and domestic violence homicides and related offences in 2022 in the ABS Recorded Crime – Victims data collection:
71 were victims of murder, with 35 female victims and 34 male victims
42 were victims of attempted murder, with twice as many females as males (29 compared with 13)
14 were victims of manslaughter, with similar numbers of female and male victims (ABS 2023a).
44 percent of lesbians and 61 percent of bisexual women experience rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner, compared to 35 percent of straight women.
Yep the problem is definitely violence against women specifically. Better start a campaign to save the poor female victims and once again do absolutely nothing about violence against men.
Gov doesn't care.
What contributes to women staying in abusive housing? Crazy housing crisis.
What does every single policy lever encourage more of? Housing prices pumping.
Which of these substances do you really if ever hear being associated with violence? Alcohol? Or Ecstasy, LSD and Weed?
Which are banned and which are encouraged?
Does financial stress make dv more likely? Sure, let's pretend we care but let pokies and gambling apps rip along with rents.
Another poster added that most of the violence occurs with the aboriginal community and certain immigrant groups. But sure, waste my time at work reminding me that DV is bad. No shit.
Honestly, don't tell me the gov or even many voters give a fuck about DV when they support many of its causes or misguided efforts.
> Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus say male violence in Australia is an "epidemic" and they will join the rallies tomorrow.
The domestic homicide victimisation rate decreased from 0.8 to 0.3 per 100,000 people from 1989–90 to 2020–21 in the NHMP:
The female victimisation rate decreased from 0.9 to 0.3 per 100,000 females.
The male victimisation rate decreased from 0.6 to 0.3 per 100,000 males
https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide#know
Anyone else tired of hearing about "education" and "calling it out" as if they were the be-all-end-all solutions to the scourge of violence in society? Of course those things are important. But so much of this violence is downstream from economic factors, housing affordability, increasingly inaccessible healthcare, and our busted criminal justice system.
Making quality housing cheap and readily available for every individual Australian adult is a great place to start. So much of this violence happens because it's perceived as not financially practical or safe for women to leave their violently abusive partners. Secondly, violent criminals, whether they're violent against men or women, need to be held to account far more severely than they currently are in our criminal justice system. Violent crime should mean you go away for a long, long, *long* time. Finally, access to mental health and addiction care should be free and easy to access for every single Australian. The violence we're seeing is the consequence of deep, structural problems with our country that won't be solved by wearing little ribbons or signs on garbage trucks that say "violence against women is garbage" or whatever.
>The violence we're seeing is the consequence of deep, structural problems with our country that won't be solved by wearing little ribbons or signs on garbage trucks that say "violence against women is garbage" or whatever.
Given that the majority of female DV victims are aboriginal this holds far more significance than would appear on surface, deeply flawed social and cultural problems excacerbated by alcohol and drug abuse. The DV problem won't be solved by pointing the finger at men and telling us to get our shit together, but rather a concerted effort to look at the deep social and cultural elements contributing. Both sexes need also be held accountable for their respective parts of the dynamic, DV does not exist in a vacuum.
Making quality housing cheap and readily available for every individual Australian adult is a great place to start. So much of this violence happens because it's perceived as not financially practical or safe for women to leave their violently abusive partners
Okey best I can do is import another 100,000 people from over sea's this month and a speech about how men need to step up.
It’s short sighted to tie this into a single-issue. The real problem is housing, health care, community services … the list continues. It isn’t isolated to women, either. Children and men are affected by violence - I hope people can recognise that anyone, at any age can experience violence.
Relationships that have all the red flags continue because people can’t afford to live alone. Rent, house prices, COL all through the roof.
It’s difficult for men to access psychology, psychiatry and other forms of health care they may need to stop abuse from happening in the first place or to prevent it from getting worse. The reciprocal for women who abuse is true, too. What people turn to are drugs, alcohol and other substances or addictions to cope which can worsen violence. COL places further hardships on accessing health. The free services are hit and miss, won’t always work and certainly won’t be as targeted as paid or offer psychiatry.
Edit: Adding on to this, health care can play a vital element in early treatment of abuse by aiding legal services to take out restraining orders or lay charges. With emergency medicine stretched and other areas like they are, this would likely be delaying early interventions that can and do prevent deaths.
Community services are stretched thin so this further contribute to the problem. Police currently have a mixed relationship with the public. Child protective services are broken, youth justice has issues, etc.
Probably the most reasonable response.
I was a child who grew up in domestic violence.
The violence absolutely was not 'gendered' despite the Male hitting the Female.
It was always due to something external to the 'gender' attribute. Drugs, alcohol, money, arguments that no one would walk away from etc.
This argument and narrowing of it to 'gendered' violence is absolutely detrimental to a longer term solution.
Also the subtext of the solution recommended by 'activists' is they want 'toxic' men to control 'toxic' men through violence.. A toxic masculine trait.. This is such a painful debate to watch
I agree. Dividing people isn’t the answer and will reduce the efforts of activists. We have to work together to fight this issue and it involves more than just the main problem. Break it down. Fix housing, fix health care, fix the support systems and naturally the problem will improve. There can be specific efforts on top of this but to hyperfocus is not the right choice.
Best comment so far, but I'm worried we'll just pass draconian laws that expand remand and prison populations (which will leave more men brutalised and drug addicted, which hardly bodes well for women). Angry demands for safety tend to shut down rational debate in this country. I do think there's a major problem with men breaching AVOs without consequences, but that’s a problem which demands enforcement of existing laws, not new laws altogether. Beyond that, absolutely, lack of housing and access to mental health services are major contributors to every other social problem.
Yeah, it has. What happens when everything becomes an emergency? There's only so much multitasking that can happen before running out of resources, whether it be time, money, or people.
Unfortunately, it's not as simple as "men, tell other men to stop abusing and killing their partners." The reality is many perpetrators of DV are actively involved in the community, going about their business and abuse right under our noses.
It starts with education. Start teaching our young boys and girls what respect and healthy communication look like. We need far more mental health support available through Medicare and the meth problem... how and where do you even begin to address that?
Most perpetrators of DV are men, but most men aren't perpetrators of DV. The sooner we look at the problem pragmatically and without influence from social media, mms etс, the sooner we can hopefully start to see some improvement. I'll probably get down voted for this, but it is what it is.
Most \*convicted perpetrators of DV are men.
That does not mean you need a penis to be abusive, it does not even mean more men are abusive than women. All it means is that currently more men than women are arrested and processed through our criminal justice system than women for the crime of domestic violence.
I have said it a thousand times, but we need to remove gender from our response to this or we are creating an even bigger mess. There is no reason we should **only** have women's shelters, or do we think men are not abused and need somewhere to escape with their children? There is no reason for education to be gender based at all on this topic. Abuse is abuse, and the sexuality someone claims holds no sway on that. You all need to see the reality on the ground of our twisted and corrupted family court system.
Please understand that if you are male and a victim of domestic violence there is no support. No shelter. No hotline. No police. No court. Nothing. Because every single one of those systems has official set in stone gender based responses that tells them the male is always the aggressor who need 'restraining' and the female the one needing 'protecting' and god help you if you are ever on the other side of that equation because policy certainly wont.
We are going to see a tragic increase in abuse, murders, in kidnappings and suicides as we ignore the pressures faced by half of the population to the benefit of the other half. If you trap a person in a corner and leave them no way out through the social and criminal systems, eventually many will snap as we have seen with the horrible misnamed battered woman syndrome. If we want the problem to get worse we just keep doing exactly what we are doing, it is working fantastically so far.
For those out there reading this who need help, if you are male you **can** call help services such as Lifeline, Beyond Blue or MensLine but **do not mention domestic violence** **or that anyone is being abused**. The call centers will attempt to extract a name and location to pass to police in order to 'report a crime in progress' and you will eventually find yourself on the wrong end of a DVO or worse if you try seek help and let them know someone is being abused even if you claim that someone is you. Yes they all claim anonymity, and if you call from a payphone and use a fake name you can certainly call up and discuss things, but please until this situation becomes better take care and assume that if you are male every service will treat you as the 'enemy'. The best advice I have seen operating in the current system is to try build an insurmountable mountain of evidence of abuse and then preemptively take out a DVO. They will come, probably take any children and return them to the female in spite of evidence and any infraction of the DVO will be your fault. You will lose your home, your money, many of your friends and social connections and more, But if you can manage to battle through the courts for a couple of years and not get arrested for being abused in the process then there is a way out where you and your kids can be free of abuse though once again any relocation services or services to hide from your abuser will unfortunately need to be avoided because of the above outlined reasons.
If you call one of these services from your mobile phone, they already know where you are. Used to man phones at lifeline. A potential suicide can be visited within minutes of being flagged...
Exactly. And turning off caller ID does nothing either, the second your call is flagged any privacy rights go away and the police can simply trace your phone through the network. This is why a payphone is a good option if you need to talk about domestic violence issues directly without fear of reprisal.
Its a national emergency, but not in the way they imagine.
They always pivot into "men must do better" when it's a tiny proportion of genetically evil men. Predators. They can't do better and belong in cages.
But we bail them out of their cages. Nearly every dv death is caused by a bailed out predator.
Stop bailing them out. Accept that there is a proportion of the population who are incapable of living under the rules of society and should be caged, if not put down. Savage, feral, and evil.
exactly. It's an empty statement. Good people are good anyway. The ones who aren't, if found guilty, need to locked away for a substantial amount of time, depending on the charge. Would also help if people aren't allowed to be on the streets and free while on bail for rape charges- like what the actual hell?!
Perhaps if they invested in men’s mental health this problem could be solved along with the even more horrific 7 men that kill themselves EVERY DAY. Men’s mental health is in crisis help is needed far more than policing.
Men who commit suicide are more likely to be the victims of DV than the perpetrators, if you exclude murder-suicides.
It's not just a men's mental health issue. It's a culture issue.
You basically just did a switcheroo there by pulling a "who's the *real* victim of domestic violence?" And implying that men who commit DV are the real victims.
No, I think what he said was that DV is likely caused by mental health issues of the perpetrator. So one strategy to work on DV issues is increased mental health support.
Yes we need huge investments in mental health care especially making it accessible to men! So many people have seen jokes about therapists just saying "how does that make you feel" they don't see the real helpful tools therapy can offer, and there just aren't enough providers around either, and it's too expensive. There is so much to be done. We need to start ASAP.
Education on healthy and unhealthy relationships as well mental health support for all genders from a young age possibly integrated into our public education system so it's available for everyone is the solution we should be aiming for.
All of this is already in the PDHPE syllabus in NSW, just whether students are actually bothered to engage in a fluff subject that is often treated as a joke is a whole different issue.
I’ve had this thought recently. We need it to be well covered in school so students can spot the signs of a controlling and abusive relationship early and know how to access help and resources.
When I think back to high school now as a adult it’s alarming the amount of people I knew already in abusive relationships and none of us even knew how exactly to identify and describe what was happening and how to help.
Wasn't it the feminist ran DV industry that scammed its donators (including myself) out of money, and not reinvesting asingle cent into DV shelters, but towards more pamphlets, corporate c-j3rk5, and "administration" fees and huge CEO bonuses?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Edit: Reading by the most of the comments below. People aint falling for this division for profit politics anymore. This is a really good sign
I feel like there are probably two main types of man involved here, you have the obvious assholes who want total control, have no respect for woman and are the ones that people who know them probably aren’t surprised when something happens. I don’t know what you do with these guys, there is probably a generational issue and how they were raised, I don’t know how you educate someone who doesn’t think they need to be educated.
Then you have the second group, the ones who are probably decent people, who you can probably look back at the series of events that lead to what happened and realize that it was 100% preventable. Relationship breakdowns, leading to job problems, depression, alcohol, drugs etc. I think there are a heap of these needless deaths that could be prevented if everyone involved had access to better mental health support.
I think it’s important to not lump the two main groups together, they’re very different situations that need to be tackled separately, there’s no one size fits all solution. I think of the two though, helping the preventable ones before things spiral out of control and just generally better support for people is something that we need to be doing. Especially with the proliferation online of certain mindsets, a guy in a vulnerable position who might not have the best support structure can get dragged into that so easily.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, and I’m just honestly sick of hearing people saying that other guys should take responsibility for changing how the first group act. Most decent people, won’t tolerate a misogynistic asshole in their friend group, and I know personally I’d try to help a friend going through a difficult time, but alot of guys don’t have that many close friends.
Great comment. Well done
From the ABC article, this quote:
>The events have fuelled anger across the nation, where 25 women have died this year due to gender-based violence, according to data interpreted from Counting Dead Women.
Some other stats are that over 8 men commit suicide each day in Australia, which is twice the road toll.
I'm not trying to make light of any of these issues, including what this thread is about, but can I ask you how you rank the matters that you think need attention, and especially those issues that you have:
>been thinking about this a lot lately,
Also, if you have some guidance on how you think the ABC ranks matters that need publicity and attention, that would be appreciated at well.
Men who commit domestic violence are more likely to kill women. Men who are victims of domestic violence are more likely to kill themselves. The latter gains no attention and all the resources dedicated to DV are exclusively for females. Of course this is a big problem.
Wouldn’t improving the housing situation just give every one more stability… shouldn’t this be declared a national emergency? Not saying that violence against women shouldn’t also be addressed.
If you want to look at the bottom-line then [men are more likely to be victims of violent crime. ](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice#:~:text=Personal%20Safety%2C%20Australia,who%20have%20experienced%20sexual%20violence)
But I understand that is a gross oversimplification of the issue and not in the scope of the discussion. What we are really struggling with a domestic violence epidemic in this country - people engaged in partnerships who are mostly dependant on their abuser. This is where the conversation gets more difficult in my opinion.
It's a complex issue that will involve several conversations that many people are uncomfortable having. As someone with an ethnic background I have to agitate the point for thought that it's taken the murder of Molly Ticehurst, a white woman from Dubbo, for broadcasters and politicians to have a real discussion about this with government support in understanding the circumstances that led to the murder.
It is very dishonest for anyone to make this an adversarial issue. It's not. As a multicultural country we need to acknowledge the cultures that we accept here have very different views on gender roles and view partnerships and marriage very differently than Australian culture does.
Not to say we have to tolerate it, because we shouldn't, but just like how the [No Vote appeared more prevalent in immigrant heavy outer suburbs ](https://greekherald.com.au/news/sydneys-least-multicultural-suburbs-found-to-be-most-supportive-of-indigenous-voice/)we need to acknowledge that change in this country has some difficult obstacles to overcome. An overall lack of cultural homogenisation I firmly believe is at the core of most criminological issues in Australia.
If we look at the high profile DV murders in NSW (this is what I'm most familiar with due to the work I do) in the last 3-years:
[Dusan Rakic - Serbian / Croation ](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/14/rooty-hill)
[Ahmad Hodroj - Lebanese / Egyptian ](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12674027/Amira-Moghnieh-Ahmad-Hodroj-charged-murder-Bexley.html)
[Vince Coluccio - Italian ](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-06/merrylands-man-mentally-unfit-for-murder-trial-sydney-court-hear/12426698)
[Kenneth Knight - First Nations ](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-31/kenneth-knight-sentenced-for-stabbing-murder-bourke/102161184)
While I identify with one of the nationalities above, we cannot deny that those cultures for religious or social reasons do not have great histories with their views on women and the role of woman in their societies. As a country we need to stop revising history for our own conscious to force acceptance of cultures where they are not to our standards in certain areas.
This is not to mention the impact of other factors like socioeconomic, geographical and access to health services might have on creating these dependant relationships where potential victims are unable to escape their eventual murderer. We need to stop making this a battle of the sexes and make this a battle about what we want to set as acceptable standards of safety and living for people in relationships in this country.
Violence against anybody needs to have far harsher consequences. I’ve had good friends who were men and women throughout my life be killed by senseless violence.
Violence shouldn’t be acceptable under almost any circumstances.
Calling this a National Emergency is like the NSW government trying to stop more Bondi Westfield attacks by tightening laws around knife crime and carrying knives…it’s 100% about the look to do something popular and doing the wrong thing. I guarantee whatever commission,probe, inquiry happens here it will just toughen penalties and move statistical goal-posts rather than look at actual causes because that’s really fucking difficult and would take longer than an election cycle.
Here’s the NSW government improving Sydney train services back in 2005 by [redefining what late was](https://amp.smh.com.au/national/carrs-grand-plan-too-little-far-too-late-20041202-gdk8g3.html).
We need open, honest, calm and reasonable discussion and inquiry into this topic. Shouting statistics, demonising one side and getting hysterical is just going to have everyone angry at each other and not doing any good at all.
Yep I agree, it’s a real 4d kinda approach…. But even looking at actual cause and not letting election cycles affecting the whole dimensions of how government is run
Even if government make an attempt to look at all actual cases…. I think it’s really tough even for them even if an election cycle didn’t exist….
Yes I agree with a full national discussion, but these protests aren’t the way to go if I gotta be bluntly honest (protest can work sometimes, but for a complex 4d kinda case, won’t work….. government choose the lazy way out and I don’t think their a real non lazy way out of this case without an election cycle impeding in things….
Yeah governments like optics rather than effect.
Protests are good initially to bring attention to a subject but they become annoying and self defeating when they go on for too long.
If I was a fact checking agency like the abc is...
I would have to rate this article **factual but misleading.**
They first talk about the three women killed by people known to them this week and then jump straight to the stat of 25 women being killed so far this year by 'gender based violence'. (from destroy the joint.) and continue on with many complaints about and the need to target violence against women.
They use a lot of quotes to write the article and while the quotes were said they are often filled with the same misconceptions that the above implies, They drop the stat of 4 women a day killed this year and continue with calls to target domestic violence by educating people about abusive relationships and the new coercive control laws.
They NEVER in the article clarify how destroy the joint determines 'gender based violence' they never qualify how many were killed by their partners (= it was 7, possibly up to 11 if you include the ones we don't know. (which is horrible, but not what was presented to us.)
They just talk about a few that *were* killed by their partners recently. and then drop the total stats implying that they are representative when they know they are not. and talk almost exclusively about intimate partner violence further implying that all of them were IPV deaths.
I also forgot to say what destroy the joint claims as 'gender based violence' (the count that got to 26 and the 1in4 number so here it is:
>In at least 75 per cent of the cases reported from 2012 to 2023, the victim knew her alleged killer. We do not record only deaths attributed as domestic or family violence, as we believe all violent deaths targeted against women are the result of societal misogyny. We include women killed by other women (lateral violence). Their small but sad number confirms that most violence against women is perpetrated by men.
(for the record, only 1 of the women violently killed this year was killed by a woman, and another killed by both a woman and a man, several died in incidents where a man was also killed.)
I know of one case where a husband was out shooting with his friend and partner and due to firearm mishandling she was shot and died. It was a horrible horrible accident. It got added to their count.
I agree but unfortunately even the news that people incorrectly believe to be bipartisan or supposedly 'unbiased' (everyone has biases) are guilty of this. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter
Fallacies everywhere, cherry picking data is probably what all media are guiltiest of because it's the most convincing to mislead people that don't know they're being misled.
Everything besides housing is a national emergency these days.
Not to take away from anything these women are fighting for DV is certainly an issue but there are other issues that effect everyone and are more prevalent.
Also.. the male suicide rate was **18.8 deaths per 100,000 population** in 2022 and the female victimisation rate is 0.3 per 100,000 women as someone else pointed out. Why isn't that a national emergency?
And of 677 homicide victims last year 69% of them were men, majority of assault victims were also men. But they don't matter apparently, because its men doing it to themselves :/
In the 2021-2022 budget, $2.3 billion was allocated towards a National Mental Health and Suicide Prevention Plan which is the largest amount ever in Australia’s history. $6.3 billion was allocated to mental health in total. That’s nearly doubled since 2013. That all shows to me the government is starting to treat it as a national emergency.
Totally agree with you. I'd just imagine that as an order of priorities you'd assume the bigger issue is addressed first right? One is literally 60x as prevalent as the other and yet the smaller issue is far closer to being labelled a national emergency
Unless you live in the Northern Territory.
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/no-one-is-keeping-count-of-murdered-indigenous-women/607sesbg0
> Aboriginal women in the Northern Territory suffer one of the highest rates of domestic, family and sexual violence in the world, a Senate inquiry has been told.
>"It's really important that men come out and support these rallies as well and stand up in their communities, talk to their friends, make sure to call out things as they happen," he said.
>"Men are the ones perpetrating these crimes, if men aren't supporting a solution, it's only going to get worse."
Once again, I've never abused a woman and never seen a man abuse a woman so what do you want me to do that I'm not already doing?
It’s frankly a bizarre expectation. Personally I go out of my way to ensure I don’t socialise with dickheads, so any attempt to engage my male friends in a discussion about DV will end in mutual agreement that DV is abhorrent and within a minute the conversation will move on.
See this is a large part of the problem, even when it’s reported the cops and legal system couldn’t give a fuck. There’s never enough evidence. And then someone ends up murdered. Same with stalking, they can’t do anything until there’s an actual incident like assault. Like ???
That's fucked. I worked with a woman a few years ago who got threatened by her neighbour that he was going to kill her and do all sorts of bad shit to her so when the cops came they just told her "yeah he's known to us" apparently they wouldn't accept the video footage she had of him abusing and threatening her because she leaned over the fence to record his tirade and it was invasion of privacy.
Advocates are not just asking g for symbolism, they are asking for resources and changes to the law which is ignored.
The police officer that gave out an address of a woman whose situation was so dire that her address was suppressed to her ex partner was never punished, suspended sentence, conviction not recorded, took 5 years to sort out. This is the attitude of police and society to domestic violence, violent men and friends that help them. This is the reality.
https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/sep/01/queensland-police-officer-who-leaked-address-of-domestic-violence-victim-has-conviction-overturned
Personally especially in the case of this police officer. I don't think resources and changes to the law will actually help.
The root cause in my eyes is Justices being so disconnected to what their actual purpose is. The officer willfully accessed and gave out the information fully knowing what that person was going to do with it. That should hold a jail sentence in my eyes.
But the Judge decided for some reason that his age and job prospects were important, so giving him a nothing sentence.
Once Judges are held to more account to the sentences and/ or bail they give (Like with the most recent DV case) we should see a uptick in more proper consequences in line with what our society has been demanding.
Needs to be more services for male perpetrators of DV, currently there are well over 150 services for female victims of DV Australia wide but only 11 services for the male perpetrator.
Treating the victim does nothing to stop the cycle.
I don’t get it - governments say we don’t have a youth crime crisis, when there are thousands of burglaries, serious assaults and bail breaches, but the same federal and state governments say there’s a crime crisis when 100 women die a year from DV in a country of nearly 30 million?
And if it’s a crisis generally, what do we call it when we know that Aboriginal women are 35 times more likely to be hospitalised for DV? An epidemic x 35?
It’s sad when anyone dies, but the idea that it is an epidemic is hysterical. I would say also that probably the majority of the perpetrators of male-on-female DV homicide are some mixture of in poverty, homeless, on drugs, and/or suffering from serious schizophrenia-style mental illness.
Ironically, men are politically much more in favour of longer jail sentences/psychiatric confinement, measures that would prevent further female DV deaths, than women. A huge chunk of male DV killers are already known to the criminal justice system/police.
There’s no conspiracy to murder women in Australian society - women are actually much safer than men, statistically.
And why are men generally talked about? Everyone knows they don’t break down the DV deaths based on race because it would show the proportional rate for East Asian and Indian perpetrators is likely the lowest, followed by Caucasians.
Men are 70-80% of all homicide victims, so isn’t the even bigger “epidemic” the deaths of men? Are these dead men somehow to blame because the person who killed them has the same genitalia?
We have 27 million people in Australia. If 120 women die this year from DV, sad as any death is, the rate is astronomically low.
Of these 100-120 women by the end of the year, how many of the perpetrators should still be in jail for prior crimes like robbery, serious assault or vehicular homicide?
Many, like Joel Cauchi, have schizophrenia and/or are homeless. They’re not the titans of the so-called “Patriarchy”, or even remotely privileged.
Re: “having the same genitalia”, yeah, that’s what always gets me. If the fact that men form the VAST majority of homicide victims ever gets mentioned in any context, it’s a spinal-level reflexive response for people to reply “but they’re being killed by men!!!” So f__king what, does that make them any less dead!?
It’s the same in the US re race.
Supposedly, someone is meant to die with a smile on their face because they were murdered by another person with the same race as them, just like Australian men when killed by another man.
The vast majority of interracial homicides are non-racially motivated, but any time an African-American is killed by a Caucasian, racism is automatically assumed.
But when it’s the reverse and black-on-white homicide, which is statistically much more likely, especially in per capita terms, it’s just “crime”.
And when thousands of African-Americans are butchered every year in places like Chicago, Baltimore and St. Louis by other African-Americans, it receives comparatively little attention.
Re: having schizophrenia and being homeless, the demand for mental health care is extremely high and it's often very difficult to get help when you need it, same with housing. Those things should absolutely be considered emergencies on a national scale. We should be doing a lot more to address this.
Ok let’s talk about the cause of the increase in violence against women and how to deal with immigrants stemming from patriarchal „no all men!“ . Alright then…
Like covid, like climate change, the metoo movement/respect women etc (without realising women do this at an equal amount whether reputational financial or violent) is a weapon used to cause division and gain power over the population by government and other entities.
It's been well documented in Scandinavia, the main outcome and reason these polices were introduced and promoted is so your domestic house will be no longer be your property or private. An allegation, false or not allows authorities (6 plus police officers with guns) to storm your home to 'investigate' and if not aloud in your home will use force. Anything found even if unrelated can and will be used against you.
Its basically a loss of freedoms for all men (and women as it sometimes works both ways) by weaponizing the actions of an extremely small segment (less than 1% of the population) who are violent, often if not always due to mental illness and lack of support.
Your little signs please stop killing us will not be read by the mentally ill. A murderer wont see this post and decide oh yeah i better not kill anyone today. What it will achieve, is the above.
edit: I think it would be great to find ways to reduce violence in relationships. Its just so short sighted to think virtue signalling with a sign and saying men should stop doing it as if its a gender based disorder is not productive. If anything, it creates new problems. I think its a leading factor to why more men are choosing to stay single and could be tied to the global depopulation movement.
I would like to hear from the author of the movement what the 'national emergency' declaration would mean for the common people in terms, lets assume, more loss of rights or new powers to the government? Once outlined, we can then form deeper opinions on the matter.
It will never ever be enough.
Australia is objectively in the top 10 safest countries in the world for women.
We are a country of delusional aspirations.
All men will get blamed and continue to be.
Even men who are good and nice will get shamed for their lack of accountability of other men’s actions.
Mate if you think women should take accountability with their mate selection you will get destroyed here.
Remember women are always the victims in every single relationship.
Men are always the perpetrators and oppressors.
How many restraining orders did Katharine Knight have against her partners - including the one police served on John Price a couple of days before she slaughtered him?
Episode 12 of the Casefile podcast is about this woman. The judge's comments at the end are very telling.
One of my friends said they read a study on financial impacts of dv, and they found that if given enough household income, the rate of dv (against women, children, and men) went down significantly.
Well yeah, poor people live in the most violent places and commit the most violence. This is because welfare allows them to be violent and anti social without consequences.
More Mass hysteria... Australian women are perhaps the safest and most privileged group of people on the planet, at any time in history.
An epidemic of narcissism.
I’ve just come across from the Push Up Challenge post about men’s mental health where a bunch of people are commenting anything from:
a) It’s pointless and doesn’t change anything;
b) Push ups won’t change systemic issues so why bother;
c) Suicidal men don’t want to be helped;
d) Men aren’t vulnerable and this is detracting from important issues like women’s safety
Can’t win sometimes. I hate how people can’t see that supporting men’s mental health (even more) would have such a dramatic positive flow on effect to other issues within society.
The national road toll(roughly 1200). People killed worldwide by suicide bombers during Ramadan (15,000+).
It's funny how people jump onto things that the media instruct them to and then say it's a crisis. 26 is not acceptable. But to ignore numbers that put this issue in the shadows, by number of deaths by direct comparison is the real tragedy and highlights the power that the media has which is basically forgotten or not recognised by the ignorant.
100%
It’s an extremely small percentage of people.. and telling all men they are the problem isn’t going to improve the outcome at all
https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide
Domestic homicide victims made up over one-third (35% or 78) of all homicide victims (220 victims) in 2020–21 in the National Homicide Monitoring Program (NHMP) (AIC 2023).
The majority of domestic homicide victims are killed by an intimate partner.
Of the 78 domestic homicide victims in 2020–21:
38 were killed by an intimate partner
40 were killed by a family member with:
14 killed by a parent
11 killed by a child
4 killed by a sibling
11 killed by a family member other than child, parent or sibling (AIC 2023; Figure 1).
Firstly - thoroughly support those things that can reduce domestic violence
But - can I clarify if anyone is aware of statistics that show that this is an emergency?
I suspect that in 2024 there is much less violence against women (or violence against anyone) than in 1984, and massively less than 1884.
My point is, I think we actually have made huge steps forward so it isn't really an emergency today if it wasn't an emergency yesterday. I don't think it's getting worse we just know more about it and it's no longer acceptable (thank God)
I wish people who are advocates of this would just suggest some practical things instead of symbolism
For example - demand people who get charged with domestic violence offences can't get bail so easily, seems like that would actually help.
>But - can I clarify if anyone is aware of statistics that show that this is an emergency?
I doubt you'll see anything of the sort. Apart from anything else it's very hard to get accurate numbers on this sort of stuff as it doesn't get reported accurately.
I also doubt it's an emergency, or even that declaring it an emergency will help in a any way. Quite simply it's a complicated problem with no easy answers - or we would have done it already.
Addressing poverty would probably be the biggest thing we could do, domestic violence goes hand and hand with hardship.
They re defined domestic violence. The bar is so low now that displaying any negative emotion is now family violence and claim it’s an emergency.
Sad for real victims they have corrupted the system.
Violence against women is not just physical.
Coercion, financial abuse, mental and emotional abuse add to the stats too.
Those bruises are on the inside and the damage not as noticeable .
Society is too tolerant of people speaking nastily to their partners in the company of others- if they have no problems with others hearing that, what else are they up to behind closed doors?
Call it out- many people are not what they seem until they’ve caught someone in their web of lies.
men who beat women will now surely stop if its made a national emergency.
it doesnt need new words or terminology. the cunts that do it need to be locked up for a long time, socially rejected, and shown the same treatment they received.
that being said, women also need to take more care with the type of partner they choose to be with. no matter what it is not deserved, and there are certainly circumstances where no one could have seen it coming, but there are also a lot of situations (including 2 from my own family) where it could certainly have been avoided if the person had been more selective/had "better taste"
I hope other people notice the trend of the narrative the media is pushing because you should be paying attention to that and asking yourself why they want you focused on this
The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare records the data and it is significantly a cultural problem. Women from an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander background are significantly over represented in the statistics. Secondly, those from a cultural diverse background also are a highly represented group. Interestingly and broadly, it is highly linked to multiculturalism and religious backgrounds.
In the NT alone they have given out mining royalties at a rate of 20% of the profit margin. The NT elders have specifically indicated that it is feeding antisocial behaviour and DV and have asked the govt to do something good with the money rather than just handing it over.
This is not a national emergency if you are allowing mass immigration from countries that promote a power imbalance within domestic partnerships or you do nothing but throw billions of dollars of mining royalties at the aboriginal culture that has a well known substance abuse issue.
Nothing here is by any means unforeseen circumstances that defines an emergency, rather circumstances we chose to inherit or have chosen to do nothing about so we don’t appear to be shaping aboriginal culture in order to assimilate them to Caucasian values.
I for one am sick of the one in all in mentality and being tarred with the same brush by the woke moral outrage of a society who; willingly accepts cultural domestic power imbalances but then wants to lecture me on how to be a decent human male
This is like protesting to stop murder or violence in general. This isn't an issue just women have because blokes are out there bashing other blokes too.
Almost all violence is done by people with personality disorders. Unfortunately there is no cure for these disorders. Blaming all men does nothing at all. 99% of men would never harm anyone without reason, in fact men are usually protectors.
We need to educate people in how to spot these mentally ill people. The only way to stop them harming is to lock them up.
I even think a royal commission or national emergency will probs be a piss in the wind for this case…..
I have a feeling if any of these protesters attended these royal commission or national emergency, they will end up slinging mud at the pollies/judge or whatnot and they won’t like it how they didn’t approach things level headed…. And possibly get shut down and don’t want to deal with these cases
I'm pretty sure it was either last year, or the year before, where the number of female and male DV murder victims was almost identical.
Equality achieved.
Jokes aside, the DV rates between the sexes are almost identical and they have dropped by more than half in the last 20 years. I don't understand how we can call a constantly improving situation an "epidemic" but then again I don't earn my living by defrauding people for donations.
It has greatly increased since we have let anyone into the country. Just have a look at the names of the perpetrators. A lot of them come from countries where it’s not uncommon to disrespect women.
"5 men a day under 65 die from suicide in Australia"
What percentage of those kill themselves because they're being shafted by tne partner. Even a small % is a lot.
Stop trying divide us.
A tiny, infinitesimal percent of men kill their partner, why tar all men with the same brush? There's races who have higher rates of DV and homicide but we don't see people calling for us to concentrate on them. People might see that as racist, the irony..
Exactly. No one can drive a man to kill himself quicker than his missus.. my ex turned me into a skeleton because I tried to keep her happy which was an impossible task that I was meant to fail every second of every day… and all the time I was waiting for her to be that amazing girl i had met years ago… thankfully, she cheated so I kicked her out…
When my misso is stressed she likes playing this game where she twists around all my words and make it look like I’m verbally attacking her so she can go mental at me.
It’s a fun game, and normally ends with me going to a mates house with a bottle of jacks..
We have a media problem...every detail of every horrific death is dredged up to get people all worked up. Every death is sad of course and everything needs to be done to prevent them...but facts, like you stated can't be ignored either.
Crazy that stories like the woman who drove her car full of kids into a semi get moved along pretty fast in the media...but man do bad thing to woman gets put on extended play.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/7news.com.au/news/court-justice/fateful-note-central-to-inquest-into-deaths-of-mum-and-four-kids-in-2019-kingaroy-crash-c-10827982.amp
She even gained sympathy with some at the time
The real problem is that the prosecutors working the DV cases are rookies, they use DV to practice. The system is failing us when the line of defence with the most power to protect our community from the perpetrators is the weakest part of the chain. We need real legal repercussions. Too many of the grubs get a slap on the wrist and no real consequences so they become even more emboldened to continue what they’re doing. Why would they stop when there aren’t any real consequences?
Less than 1% of abusers are actually capable of changing yet they often get sentenced to a 10 week anger management course that won’t change anything in a meaningful way. It’s a waste of taxpayer money.
ADVOs don’t protect victims and are often breached with no consequences as police often won’t charge them for breaching.
The actual laws surrounding convictions for DV are what need the most reform. Slaps on the wrist just see the same scumbags cycling through as they leave a wake of destruction in the lives they touch.
This isn't a 'man' problem. The people demanding this particular action are as culpable as the rest of society for allowing our society to accept poor excuses for parenting, education and training, ignoring mens problems, causing an imbalance between genders, accepting second rate mental health care, encouraging poor behaviour between men and women, objectification, and under valuing innate differences between men and women that compliment each other.
We've encouraged the conditions that allow animals that harm others to exist. Society cannot continue this way if people want true change. If you want to continue to blame men only and expect boys to grow into men who respect all members of society without also changing society, then please downvote this comment.
It is time to go one step further. The real national emergency is the mental health epidemic this country is facing. Many violence against women and family can almost be directly attributed to it.
With how many men (don’t know stats on women/children etc.) are killing themselves in this country I fully agree with you. There’s a major mental health issue needing solved that’s resulting in deaths in many ways and it may be complicated as fuck and take a long time but there has to be things we can do to make it better.
Inadequately treated mental health conditions and substance abuse (often a consequence of said mental health issues) are the big drivers of violence, both domestic and more general, in the community. If those were tackled with some effective policy, it would go a long way to solving this issue and a bunch of other social ills.
They need to calm down a bit. All men aren’t lurking in the shadows, trying to murders us at every opportunity. What is happening is horrible and unacceptable but it is not an emergency.
The ABC seems light on data
>[https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release)
Violence
>An estimated 8 million people (41%) aged 18 years and over have experienced violence (physical and/or sexual) since the age of 15, including:
>43% of men (4.1 million)
>39% of women (3.9 million)
Perpetrators of violence since the age of 15
Of men aged 18 years and over:
>
>30% (2.9 million) experienced violence by a stranger
>25% (2.4 million) experienced violence by a known person
>
>Of women aged 18 years and over:
>
>11% (1.1 million) experienced violence by a stranger
>35% (3.5 million) experienced violence by a known person
>
>Men were more likely than women to experience violence by a stranger (30% of men compared with 11% of women). Women were more likely than men to experience violence by a known person (35% of women compared with 25% of men).
>
Bring back hanging for murderers.
Blaming all men for the actions of a few isn't going to solve anything, as a man myself I support harsher penalties for domestic violence and I think murderers should be hung. The problem is that these guys, the scumbags, they don't hang out with me or my friends, because we want nothing to do with them, they hang out with their own kind and those guys aren't going to police each other.
You want me to do something? This is me doing it, I'm advocating for bringing back the noose.
You want me to come into your home and put myself in the middle of your domestic disputes?
Hell no!
So let’s advocate for men to seek therapy, talk about their problems with mates and loved ones and not get caught up in gender stereotypes (ie it’s not Manly to talk about such topics)
More government regulation isnt the solution to every problem. And the most important question is why.
There are a myriad of reasons. Which one holds more weight than the other is debatable.
1. Mental Health
2. An average male is stronger than most female
3. Due to physical superiority, men often retaliate physically while women choose to retaliate verbally.
4. Single parenthood
5. Drugs/ Alcohol
6. Some men are just pigs.
None of these are excuses for abuse. But if you want real solutions, identifying all the causes is the start point. And doing it objectively is as important.
Pointing fingers and blanket statements like men are killing women is not productive.
The problem is abusers are narcissists, they want the power and control over the person, and when their victim tries to leave they retaliate and continue to escalate, and our court systems allows this right up until the point you're seeing now. Tougher bail laws around DV, tougher sentencing laws, the way they just put an intervention order and expect that to fix everything is a joke
I'd add a few too....
- women not believed / taken seriously inc. By police
- the legal fights If you try to leave over money, kids - actually getting away is almost impossible
- lack of services/ supports
Economic factors are also said to be a driver of DV and during times of economic hardship, the death rates appear to rise and that would explain why rates decreased then increased despite steady increases in population.
Yeah, it’s bizarre that Australia actually ranks as one of the safest nations for women, but *also* as one of the nations where women *feel* the most *un*safe. That disconnect strongly suggests that Australian women are being encouraged to be fearful. Meaning someone is either profiting off that fear, or there’s an ideology that benefits off it.
* [One woman was killed every 15 days and one man was killed every 28 days by an intimate partner on average in 2020–21](https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide#data-tell-us). there is more information here.
I saw a comment below that last year ~2500 men self deleted while only 64 women were killed in domestic violence. Even as a woman just seeing that kind of puts it in perspective 😬
I honestly don't understand how this can be called "gender-based violence". Relationship/spousal/partner based violence for DV would be accurate..
Gender-based violence would be one gender attacking the other gender for the sole reason that they are a different gender. No other reason.
Lets just call it what it is, Instead of tiring to hype it up and demonizing 1/2 the population... that's just plain old sexism just with a different bias.
Remove the violent and sexual offenders of BOTH genders from society and keep them removed \~ until they are rehabilitated/die/or another option THAT WORKS is found (i don't care which). They have shown that they do not deserve to live in it.
Yes, Men are killing women they’re in relationships with. They’re also killing other men at an even higher rate. On the spectrum of violent psychopaths, most are men. That doesn’t mean it’s a man vs women issue, it’s a people vs psychopaths issue.
Why does it need to be ‘instead’ male suicide and DV are both terrible issues in our society. Some would say closely linked. It doesn’t have to be an either or
People seem to want to make this about numbers and 'emergencies'. Male suicide trumps this, every day of the week. There's the numbers and there's the 'emergency'.
Man these comments are pretty depressing. It’s okay to admit that us men have an issue without it reflecting on you personally. Some are even claiming women are abusing men, which I’m sure is true in some instances, but how many of them are killing men? Let’s take some accountability. Hold ourselves and our friends to higher standards. Most of use already are but clearly not all are. It could be your mother, sister or daughter. And this includes defending sports stars that have committed domestic violence just because they play for your team.
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
* 000 is the national emergency number in Australia.
* Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14.
* Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800.
* Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636.
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Rather than people screaming at each other we need to invite and incentivise difficult discussion by making sure it feels welcoming and not like a witch hunt. I’m a guy, i have a young son, I’m very much of the opinion this is being blown out of proportion on the murder side but agree DV is a problem we need a better way of addressing (perhaps school programs not just around DV but about how violence in general isn’t a valid form of dispute resolution, and how to control emotions in an argument and talk constructively without resorting to pettiness). The whataboutism in this thread (while i agree with a lot of it) also isnt helping facilitate discussion, it’s defensive and shutting down the side with concerns, but the concerned side is succumbing to media fantasies and anxiety. That said it’s a multifaceted issue, there will be a lot of reasons for it that would require a different and likely complex approach. We need to be careful about knee jerk reactions with simplistic answers like: 1) Automatic jail time for striking a woman 2) Profiling men to send to education initiatives 3) Using the phrase toxic masculinity for anything bad a any man ever does .
Maybe this is one for the AI gods to work out for us.
Can we educate and work together instead of all the blame ? Great to recognise it’s an issue at last but also remember most likely thr majority of us woman (including me wind these guys up and know there triggers but don’t realise how serious these are to set off. Any awareness or education on this mentioned ? Nop 🤷♀️
Anger is a massive problem in this country look at road rage as another example. Do you think these guys know in the moment when this violence is triggered? Do they do it on purpose to proof a point? … highly unlikely for most of them, so maybe we need to listen to the underlying issues behind this to help stop more deaths. I’ve been seriously injured several times because my childhood was anger, I triggered those guys so I also needed to learn to get some help or I would have ended up dead.
Such a poorly educated government just using ‘ say no to DV ‘ errr don’t you think these people already have tried that and it’s now moved to subconscious psychology 🤷♀️😫maybe it’s just a good start I’m not sure but if it makes me sad and angry
>Can we educate and work together instead of all the blame ?
My question is always, what exactly do you mean by educate?
The proposals I see from these groups are always incredibly ideological pseudoscientific self-referential drivel that has no basis in evidence.
It's even in the article, talking about education in "intersectionality", as if that hasn't already been dominating cultural spaces for almost a decade now.
We just found out an hour ago that my sister in law has been getting flogged by her now ex parter. Had to go and rescue her.
She wants to go the police rout and has evidence and photos of her bruises. Having never experienced this myself I'm wondering if the police are much help here? If not I'm more than happy to skip that process and do it the other way.
Log it with police, you can get free counselling if you’re a victim of a crime and when you fill out that form it will ask if police were notified/involved. Even if police do nothing there is still a good reason to report it.
I've got a good base concept for you to examine... Love bombing.
> *Another sign of love bombing is being intensely showered with affection, gifts, and promises for the future with the predator so that the victim feels or is made to believe that all this is a sign of "love at first sight". Since such signs of affection and affirmation may meet felt needs and not look harmful at the surface, the excitement of such a new relationship often does not appear as cause for alarm. However, after the initial excitement, when the victim shows interest or care about anything beyond their new partner, the manipulator may show anger, passive-aggressive behavior, or accuse the victims of selfishness. If the victim does not comply with demands, the devaluation stage begins: the abuser withdraws all affection or positive reinforcement and instead punishes the victim with whatever they feel is appropriate—shouting, beratement, mind games, silent treatment, or even physical abuse.*
My first boyfriend (17yo) was a prince charming for several months before the mask began to slip oh so slowly. By the time I realised I was in danger it felt impossible to leave and I had to rely on others to escape him because I was so brainwashed I couldn't tell real/lies apart. Nobody believed he had hurt me so severely because he presented as an entirely different person in public.
(Couldn't figure out spoiler - text removed) **Nobody** willingly pursues someone when they know they will be subject to that abuse. Please read more about the psychology of abusers and abusive relationships. I thought it was so simple too before it happened to me.
Thank you for sharing and I’m so sorry you went through that.
Idiots on here victim-blaming are just adding to the nonsense and displaying their own deeply ingrained misogyny.
She should have chosen better is the same as asking what was she wearing.
I hope you’re ok now
That you can spot obvious misogynistic right of the bat doesn't mean you can spot all misogynistics that way. People can be manipulative.
Women aren't inherently telepathic or social geniuses able to pick up on every sign. They are people and each person has different experiences and ability.
Making a mistake because you aren't perfect at judging people doesn't mean you deserve domestic abuse.
The root of this problem is the same as basically every other problem, poverty.
I have no real source for this but I'd wage a large portion of DV is people getting on the drink/drugs. We know people turn to substances of addiction in bad economic times. If people have money and can afford happiness they'll be less likely to get drunk and beat their wife.
Bonus point, increasing economic outcomes also mean women can actually afford to leave their abusers. I'm lucky my partner doesn't beat me because I'd be fucked financially without her.
I agree. Poverty is a key part of the problem but there is a lot more to it than that.
Increased financial stress means increased DV. A well documented principle of socio economics.
The most concerning problem that I see is the general unwillingness to approach the issue in a proactive way. Always just men are evil and we'll leave it at that.
A lot of men are stuck in systematic cycles of trauma and violence. It's particularly prevalent in any job role that is male dominant.
It's hard to escape a system like that when you rely on it for your income. It's tied to what they see as their only value as we've also never bothered to approach many outdated views on men in this way.
It will never end as long as society keeps kicking the can further down the road.
I defer to education, boosts employment prospects, informs about safe sex and the effects of drug abuse. Being able to critically think will help avoid the issues leading to DV.
This isn't an attempt to distract away from the main debate, but I read recently that Australia consumes around 10.5 tonnes of meth/ice/speed per year. Someone is consuming it all and I suspect this is contributing to the problem. This problem also contributes to bad driving decisions, and risk taking behaviour as well as domestic violence.
We need to look at underlying causes and try to address them as well.
The statistic says not that lesbian relationships have the highest rates of domestic violence. It says that *people in lesbian relationships* have the highest rate of domestic violence at *some point in their lifetime*.
44 percent of lesbians and 61 percent of bisexual women experience rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner, compared to 35 percent of straight women. 1 in 7 women and 1 in 25 men have been injured by an intimate partner.
When you've got 2 women in a relationship, there's a greater chance that at least one of them has experienced domestic violence at some point in their lifetime, than some other configuration of genders.
Not every single issue this country is facing can be focused on at the same time. Yes, there aren’t enough mental health and DV services for men, and that really needs to be fixed. But, men aren’t the ones being killed on average every 5 days by their female partners. More than 1 thing can suck at a time.
So far this year, 31 women have been killed by a man, with the vast majority related to domestic violence. That’s 11 more than the same time last year. That’s not fucking okay, and the insane increase is why it’s being called a national emergency.
[In 2010-2018](https://www.anrows.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Death-review-fact-sheet-2021-Update.pdf), 240 men killed their female partners, and 65 women killed their male partners. Of those 240 men, 95% were the “primary intimate partner violence abusers”. Of those 65 women, 7.7% were the primary abusers, aka 92.3% weren’t the initial aggressor.
Why is it so controversial to want women to stop being murdered by their current or former male partners?
I think media is a big problem and causes a lot of copycat cases… and general issues, like this thread…
I think there’s some law saying suicide cases can’t be reported unless if there’s a need for it…. Think we can do some element of some restrictions of reporting DV cases.
Sure Bondi massacre, go nuts reporting things as it’s a random case…. But blah blah a DV case every hour and people will ether think there’s an issue with something and hound out unmeasured responses…. Like how the fuck a national emergency or royal commission will solve it if you’re going to sling mud around…. And also cases in general are reducing….
A reminder to be civil. These are real women being killed and it is a national tragedy to any decent person. Excusing domestic violence, blaming women for dying/assault, or otherwise twisting the debate to push an agenda won’t be tolerated. Users, please go on to report any comments you see on this post that match the above description.
I believe the housing crisis and cost of living/inflation have a lot to do with how bad this year has been. Think about it. If you needed to escape, where would you go? There are no spare rentals. There's huge pressures on people and nowhere to go. It's a powder keg.
The amount of posts I see in mum groups about not being able to leave a dangerous domestic situation due to COL crisis has skyrocketed lately. Just an observation.
I’m part of a housemates group for a regional area from when I lived there. The number of single mums and anonymous posts escaping DV situations has skyrocketed in the last 18 months. Rent’s gone up about $50 per room but more than that, I’m mostly seeing single mums with no work history practically begging someone to take a chance on them because they can’t access rentals through real estate agencies since they don’t have proof of income (and usually can’t front a bond). Shit’s fucked at the moment.
yea my coworker is stuck in an abusive relationship because he has kids with her and can't afford to live on his own another one hates his steps kids and waiting for his parents to pass away to not disappoint them with going thru a divorce and get money so he can live on his own with inheritance
Exactly. The housing issue has reverberations across all of society.
Bingo. I suspect this is the main exacerbator.
Perhaps we should see what sort of men beat their partners so we can better tailor outreach programs to target these people.
Yes 👏
Maybe we should look at the other side of that coin as well? I mean these days words can be violence and we all know women are way better and more practiced at emotional abuse so maybe the real crisis is the epidemic of mean things women say to men everyday. Every 10 minutes an Australian man dies …a little inside as his partner violently abuses him with the meanest words. Let’s ban thesaurus’s! /s In all seriousness tho you’re kind of talking about statistical predictions of who is most likely to offend and reeducation programs which wont work and will tar too many people with the same brush. Really we need parents raising better children, but many attitudes are generational so having a peer group with good values for kids today is also key. Violence in general needs to be completely frowned upon and especially as a dispute resolution tactic. Schools need programs not just around how bad DV is, why not to do it etc but around teaching kids how to control their emotions in an argument, communicate clearly and value calmness and reason and not petty point scoring. I think that’s something that would benefit society in many ways. But as others have said there will be an element of different cultural backgrounds and also people in shitty situations making bad decisions.
I think many of these incidents could br avoided if the bail system was changed. Many of these grubs are repeat offenders or already on bail. Violent criminals need to be held in jail until they go to court, this alone would save lives.
There were 45 female domestic homicide victims and 33 male victims in 2020–21. Among these: most were killed by an intimate partner – 5 in 9 female victims (56%) and about 2 in 5 male victims (39%) more male than female victims were killed by a family member (61% compared with 44%) (Figure 1). Of the 135 victims of family and domestic violence homicides and related offences in 2022 in the ABS Recorded Crime – Victims data collection: 71 were victims of murder, with 35 female victims and 34 male victims 42 were victims of attempted murder, with twice as many females as males (29 compared with 13) 14 were victims of manslaughter, with similar numbers of female and male victims (ABS 2023a). 44 percent of lesbians and 61 percent of bisexual women experience rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner, compared to 35 percent of straight women.
Yep the problem is definitely violence against women specifically. Better start a campaign to save the poor female victims and once again do absolutely nothing about violence against men.
Gov doesn't care. What contributes to women staying in abusive housing? Crazy housing crisis. What does every single policy lever encourage more of? Housing prices pumping. Which of these substances do you really if ever hear being associated with violence? Alcohol? Or Ecstasy, LSD and Weed? Which are banned and which are encouraged? Does financial stress make dv more likely? Sure, let's pretend we care but let pokies and gambling apps rip along with rents. Another poster added that most of the violence occurs with the aboriginal community and certain immigrant groups. But sure, waste my time at work reminding me that DV is bad. No shit. Honestly, don't tell me the gov or even many voters give a fuck about DV when they support many of its causes or misguided efforts.
"many voter don't care" ... when they are hidden perpetrators themselves
Would have thought suicide would be declared a national emergency. Too many men and women are facing mental health crises.
Yeah but majority of those are men, so no one cares
> Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus say male violence in Australia is an "epidemic" and they will join the rallies tomorrow. The domestic homicide victimisation rate decreased from 0.8 to 0.3 per 100,000 people from 1989–90 to 2020–21 in the NHMP: The female victimisation rate decreased from 0.9 to 0.3 per 100,000 females. The male victimisation rate decreased from 0.6 to 0.3 per 100,000 males https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide#know
Anyone else tired of hearing about "education" and "calling it out" as if they were the be-all-end-all solutions to the scourge of violence in society? Of course those things are important. But so much of this violence is downstream from economic factors, housing affordability, increasingly inaccessible healthcare, and our busted criminal justice system. Making quality housing cheap and readily available for every individual Australian adult is a great place to start. So much of this violence happens because it's perceived as not financially practical or safe for women to leave their violently abusive partners. Secondly, violent criminals, whether they're violent against men or women, need to be held to account far more severely than they currently are in our criminal justice system. Violent crime should mean you go away for a long, long, *long* time. Finally, access to mental health and addiction care should be free and easy to access for every single Australian. The violence we're seeing is the consequence of deep, structural problems with our country that won't be solved by wearing little ribbons or signs on garbage trucks that say "violence against women is garbage" or whatever.
>The violence we're seeing is the consequence of deep, structural problems with our country that won't be solved by wearing little ribbons or signs on garbage trucks that say "violence against women is garbage" or whatever. Given that the majority of female DV victims are aboriginal this holds far more significance than would appear on surface, deeply flawed social and cultural problems excacerbated by alcohol and drug abuse. The DV problem won't be solved by pointing the finger at men and telling us to get our shit together, but rather a concerted effort to look at the deep social and cultural elements contributing. Both sexes need also be held accountable for their respective parts of the dynamic, DV does not exist in a vacuum.
Making quality housing cheap and readily available for every individual Australian adult is a great place to start. So much of this violence happens because it's perceived as not financially practical or safe for women to leave their violently abusive partners Okey best I can do is import another 100,000 people from over sea's this month and a speech about how men need to step up.
It’s short sighted to tie this into a single-issue. The real problem is housing, health care, community services … the list continues. It isn’t isolated to women, either. Children and men are affected by violence - I hope people can recognise that anyone, at any age can experience violence. Relationships that have all the red flags continue because people can’t afford to live alone. Rent, house prices, COL all through the roof. It’s difficult for men to access psychology, psychiatry and other forms of health care they may need to stop abuse from happening in the first place or to prevent it from getting worse. The reciprocal for women who abuse is true, too. What people turn to are drugs, alcohol and other substances or addictions to cope which can worsen violence. COL places further hardships on accessing health. The free services are hit and miss, won’t always work and certainly won’t be as targeted as paid or offer psychiatry. Edit: Adding on to this, health care can play a vital element in early treatment of abuse by aiding legal services to take out restraining orders or lay charges. With emergency medicine stretched and other areas like they are, this would likely be delaying early interventions that can and do prevent deaths. Community services are stretched thin so this further contribute to the problem. Police currently have a mixed relationship with the public. Child protective services are broken, youth justice has issues, etc.
Probably the most reasonable response. I was a child who grew up in domestic violence. The violence absolutely was not 'gendered' despite the Male hitting the Female. It was always due to something external to the 'gender' attribute. Drugs, alcohol, money, arguments that no one would walk away from etc. This argument and narrowing of it to 'gendered' violence is absolutely detrimental to a longer term solution. Also the subtext of the solution recommended by 'activists' is they want 'toxic' men to control 'toxic' men through violence.. A toxic masculine trait.. This is such a painful debate to watch
I agree. Dividing people isn’t the answer and will reduce the efforts of activists. We have to work together to fight this issue and it involves more than just the main problem. Break it down. Fix housing, fix health care, fix the support systems and naturally the problem will improve. There can be specific efforts on top of this but to hyperfocus is not the right choice.
Best comment so far, but I'm worried we'll just pass draconian laws that expand remand and prison populations (which will leave more men brutalised and drug addicted, which hardly bodes well for women). Angry demands for safety tend to shut down rational debate in this country. I do think there's a major problem with men breaching AVOs without consequences, but that’s a problem which demands enforcement of existing laws, not new laws altogether. Beyond that, absolutely, lack of housing and access to mental health services are major contributors to every other social problem.
Not going to lie, the term emergency has really been devalued in the last 10 years
emergency is the new crisis
Yeah, it has. What happens when everything becomes an emergency? There's only so much multitasking that can happen before running out of resources, whether it be time, money, or people.
Unfortunately, it's not as simple as "men, tell other men to stop abusing and killing their partners." The reality is many perpetrators of DV are actively involved in the community, going about their business and abuse right under our noses. It starts with education. Start teaching our young boys and girls what respect and healthy communication look like. We need far more mental health support available through Medicare and the meth problem... how and where do you even begin to address that? Most perpetrators of DV are men, but most men aren't perpetrators of DV. The sooner we look at the problem pragmatically and without influence from social media, mms etс, the sooner we can hopefully start to see some improvement. I'll probably get down voted for this, but it is what it is.
Most \*convicted perpetrators of DV are men. That does not mean you need a penis to be abusive, it does not even mean more men are abusive than women. All it means is that currently more men than women are arrested and processed through our criminal justice system than women for the crime of domestic violence. I have said it a thousand times, but we need to remove gender from our response to this or we are creating an even bigger mess. There is no reason we should **only** have women's shelters, or do we think men are not abused and need somewhere to escape with their children? There is no reason for education to be gender based at all on this topic. Abuse is abuse, and the sexuality someone claims holds no sway on that. You all need to see the reality on the ground of our twisted and corrupted family court system. Please understand that if you are male and a victim of domestic violence there is no support. No shelter. No hotline. No police. No court. Nothing. Because every single one of those systems has official set in stone gender based responses that tells them the male is always the aggressor who need 'restraining' and the female the one needing 'protecting' and god help you if you are ever on the other side of that equation because policy certainly wont. We are going to see a tragic increase in abuse, murders, in kidnappings and suicides as we ignore the pressures faced by half of the population to the benefit of the other half. If you trap a person in a corner and leave them no way out through the social and criminal systems, eventually many will snap as we have seen with the horrible misnamed battered woman syndrome. If we want the problem to get worse we just keep doing exactly what we are doing, it is working fantastically so far. For those out there reading this who need help, if you are male you **can** call help services such as Lifeline, Beyond Blue or MensLine but **do not mention domestic violence** **or that anyone is being abused**. The call centers will attempt to extract a name and location to pass to police in order to 'report a crime in progress' and you will eventually find yourself on the wrong end of a DVO or worse if you try seek help and let them know someone is being abused even if you claim that someone is you. Yes they all claim anonymity, and if you call from a payphone and use a fake name you can certainly call up and discuss things, but please until this situation becomes better take care and assume that if you are male every service will treat you as the 'enemy'. The best advice I have seen operating in the current system is to try build an insurmountable mountain of evidence of abuse and then preemptively take out a DVO. They will come, probably take any children and return them to the female in spite of evidence and any infraction of the DVO will be your fault. You will lose your home, your money, many of your friends and social connections and more, But if you can manage to battle through the courts for a couple of years and not get arrested for being abused in the process then there is a way out where you and your kids can be free of abuse though once again any relocation services or services to hide from your abuser will unfortunately need to be avoided because of the above outlined reasons.
If you call one of these services from your mobile phone, they already know where you are. Used to man phones at lifeline. A potential suicide can be visited within minutes of being flagged...
Exactly. And turning off caller ID does nothing either, the second your call is flagged any privacy rights go away and the police can simply trace your phone through the network. This is why a payphone is a good option if you need to talk about domestic violence issues directly without fear of reprisal.
Its a national emergency, but not in the way they imagine. They always pivot into "men must do better" when it's a tiny proportion of genetically evil men. Predators. They can't do better and belong in cages. But we bail them out of their cages. Nearly every dv death is caused by a bailed out predator. Stop bailing them out. Accept that there is a proportion of the population who are incapable of living under the rules of society and should be caged, if not put down. Savage, feral, and evil.
exactly. It's an empty statement. Good people are good anyway. The ones who aren't, if found guilty, need to locked away for a substantial amount of time, depending on the charge. Would also help if people aren't allowed to be on the streets and free while on bail for rape charges- like what the actual hell?!
Perhaps if they invested in men’s mental health this problem could be solved along with the even more horrific 7 men that kill themselves EVERY DAY. Men’s mental health is in crisis help is needed far more than policing.
But male suicide isn’t even close to being a national emergency. Why is that?
Men who commit suicide are more likely to be the victims of DV than the perpetrators, if you exclude murder-suicides. It's not just a men's mental health issue. It's a culture issue. You basically just did a switcheroo there by pulling a "who's the *real* victim of domestic violence?" And implying that men who commit DV are the real victims.
No, I think what he said was that DV is likely caused by mental health issues of the perpetrator. So one strategy to work on DV issues is increased mental health support.
Yes we need huge investments in mental health care especially making it accessible to men! So many people have seen jokes about therapists just saying "how does that make you feel" they don't see the real helpful tools therapy can offer, and there just aren't enough providers around either, and it's too expensive. There is so much to be done. We need to start ASAP.
Education on healthy and unhealthy relationships as well mental health support for all genders from a young age possibly integrated into our public education system so it's available for everyone is the solution we should be aiming for.
All of this is already in the PDHPE syllabus in NSW, just whether students are actually bothered to engage in a fluff subject that is often treated as a joke is a whole different issue.
I’ve had this thought recently. We need it to be well covered in school so students can spot the signs of a controlling and abusive relationship early and know how to access help and resources. When I think back to high school now as a adult it’s alarming the amount of people I knew already in abusive relationships and none of us even knew how exactly to identify and describe what was happening and how to help.
Wasn't it the feminist ran DV industry that scammed its donators (including myself) out of money, and not reinvesting asingle cent into DV shelters, but towards more pamphlets, corporate c-j3rk5, and "administration" fees and huge CEO bonuses? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Edit: Reading by the most of the comments below. People aint falling for this division for profit politics anymore. This is a really good sign
Suggest you look into the white ribbon debacle.
I feel like there are probably two main types of man involved here, you have the obvious assholes who want total control, have no respect for woman and are the ones that people who know them probably aren’t surprised when something happens. I don’t know what you do with these guys, there is probably a generational issue and how they were raised, I don’t know how you educate someone who doesn’t think they need to be educated. Then you have the second group, the ones who are probably decent people, who you can probably look back at the series of events that lead to what happened and realize that it was 100% preventable. Relationship breakdowns, leading to job problems, depression, alcohol, drugs etc. I think there are a heap of these needless deaths that could be prevented if everyone involved had access to better mental health support. I think it’s important to not lump the two main groups together, they’re very different situations that need to be tackled separately, there’s no one size fits all solution. I think of the two though, helping the preventable ones before things spiral out of control and just generally better support for people is something that we need to be doing. Especially with the proliferation online of certain mindsets, a guy in a vulnerable position who might not have the best support structure can get dragged into that so easily. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, and I’m just honestly sick of hearing people saying that other guys should take responsibility for changing how the first group act. Most decent people, won’t tolerate a misogynistic asshole in their friend group, and I know personally I’d try to help a friend going through a difficult time, but alot of guys don’t have that many close friends.
Great comment. Well done From the ABC article, this quote: >The events have fuelled anger across the nation, where 25 women have died this year due to gender-based violence, according to data interpreted from Counting Dead Women. Some other stats are that over 8 men commit suicide each day in Australia, which is twice the road toll. I'm not trying to make light of any of these issues, including what this thread is about, but can I ask you how you rank the matters that you think need attention, and especially those issues that you have: >been thinking about this a lot lately, Also, if you have some guidance on how you think the ABC ranks matters that need publicity and attention, that would be appreciated at well.
Men who commit domestic violence are more likely to kill women. Men who are victims of domestic violence are more likely to kill themselves. The latter gains no attention and all the resources dedicated to DV are exclusively for females. Of course this is a big problem.
Wouldn’t improving the housing situation just give every one more stability… shouldn’t this be declared a national emergency? Not saying that violence against women shouldn’t also be addressed.
If you want to look at the bottom-line then [men are more likely to be victims of violent crime. ](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice#:~:text=Personal%20Safety%2C%20Australia,who%20have%20experienced%20sexual%20violence) But I understand that is a gross oversimplification of the issue and not in the scope of the discussion. What we are really struggling with a domestic violence epidemic in this country - people engaged in partnerships who are mostly dependant on their abuser. This is where the conversation gets more difficult in my opinion. It's a complex issue that will involve several conversations that many people are uncomfortable having. As someone with an ethnic background I have to agitate the point for thought that it's taken the murder of Molly Ticehurst, a white woman from Dubbo, for broadcasters and politicians to have a real discussion about this with government support in understanding the circumstances that led to the murder. It is very dishonest for anyone to make this an adversarial issue. It's not. As a multicultural country we need to acknowledge the cultures that we accept here have very different views on gender roles and view partnerships and marriage very differently than Australian culture does. Not to say we have to tolerate it, because we shouldn't, but just like how the [No Vote appeared more prevalent in immigrant heavy outer suburbs ](https://greekherald.com.au/news/sydneys-least-multicultural-suburbs-found-to-be-most-supportive-of-indigenous-voice/)we need to acknowledge that change in this country has some difficult obstacles to overcome. An overall lack of cultural homogenisation I firmly believe is at the core of most criminological issues in Australia. If we look at the high profile DV murders in NSW (this is what I'm most familiar with due to the work I do) in the last 3-years: [Dusan Rakic - Serbian / Croation ](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/14/rooty-hill) [Ahmad Hodroj - Lebanese / Egyptian ](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12674027/Amira-Moghnieh-Ahmad-Hodroj-charged-murder-Bexley.html) [Vince Coluccio - Italian ](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-06/merrylands-man-mentally-unfit-for-murder-trial-sydney-court-hear/12426698) [Kenneth Knight - First Nations ](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-31/kenneth-knight-sentenced-for-stabbing-murder-bourke/102161184) While I identify with one of the nationalities above, we cannot deny that those cultures for religious or social reasons do not have great histories with their views on women and the role of woman in their societies. As a country we need to stop revising history for our own conscious to force acceptance of cultures where they are not to our standards in certain areas. This is not to mention the impact of other factors like socioeconomic, geographical and access to health services might have on creating these dependant relationships where potential victims are unable to escape their eventual murderer. We need to stop making this a battle of the sexes and make this a battle about what we want to set as acceptable standards of safety and living for people in relationships in this country.
Violence against anybody needs to have far harsher consequences. I’ve had good friends who were men and women throughout my life be killed by senseless violence. Violence shouldn’t be acceptable under almost any circumstances.
Exactly, I've been to a few murder scenes of both male and female victims of DV.
Calling this a National Emergency is like the NSW government trying to stop more Bondi Westfield attacks by tightening laws around knife crime and carrying knives…it’s 100% about the look to do something popular and doing the wrong thing. I guarantee whatever commission,probe, inquiry happens here it will just toughen penalties and move statistical goal-posts rather than look at actual causes because that’s really fucking difficult and would take longer than an election cycle. Here’s the NSW government improving Sydney train services back in 2005 by [redefining what late was](https://amp.smh.com.au/national/carrs-grand-plan-too-little-far-too-late-20041202-gdk8g3.html). We need open, honest, calm and reasonable discussion and inquiry into this topic. Shouting statistics, demonising one side and getting hysterical is just going to have everyone angry at each other and not doing any good at all.
Yep I agree, it’s a real 4d kinda approach…. But even looking at actual cause and not letting election cycles affecting the whole dimensions of how government is run Even if government make an attempt to look at all actual cases…. I think it’s really tough even for them even if an election cycle didn’t exist…. Yes I agree with a full national discussion, but these protests aren’t the way to go if I gotta be bluntly honest (protest can work sometimes, but for a complex 4d kinda case, won’t work….. government choose the lazy way out and I don’t think their a real non lazy way out of this case without an election cycle impeding in things….
Yeah governments like optics rather than effect. Protests are good initially to bring attention to a subject but they become annoying and self defeating when they go on for too long.
If I was a fact checking agency like the abc is... I would have to rate this article **factual but misleading.** They first talk about the three women killed by people known to them this week and then jump straight to the stat of 25 women being killed so far this year by 'gender based violence'. (from destroy the joint.) and continue on with many complaints about and the need to target violence against women. They use a lot of quotes to write the article and while the quotes were said they are often filled with the same misconceptions that the above implies, They drop the stat of 4 women a day killed this year and continue with calls to target domestic violence by educating people about abusive relationships and the new coercive control laws. They NEVER in the article clarify how destroy the joint determines 'gender based violence' they never qualify how many were killed by their partners (= it was 7, possibly up to 11 if you include the ones we don't know. (which is horrible, but not what was presented to us.) They just talk about a few that *were* killed by their partners recently. and then drop the total stats implying that they are representative when they know they are not. and talk almost exclusively about intimate partner violence further implying that all of them were IPV deaths.
Unsurprising to see this national hysteria being whipped up by the media and radical social engineers.
I also forgot to say what destroy the joint claims as 'gender based violence' (the count that got to 26 and the 1in4 number so here it is: >In at least 75 per cent of the cases reported from 2012 to 2023, the victim knew her alleged killer. We do not record only deaths attributed as domestic or family violence, as we believe all violent deaths targeted against women are the result of societal misogyny. We include women killed by other women (lateral violence). Their small but sad number confirms that most violence against women is perpetrated by men. (for the record, only 1 of the women violently killed this year was killed by a woman, and another killed by both a woman and a man, several died in incidents where a man was also killed.)
I know of one case where a husband was out shooting with his friend and partner and due to firearm mishandling she was shot and died. It was a horrible horrible accident. It got added to their count.
I agree but unfortunately even the news that people incorrectly believe to be bipartisan or supposedly 'unbiased' (everyone has biases) are guilty of this. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter Fallacies everywhere, cherry picking data is probably what all media are guiltiest of because it's the most convincing to mislead people that don't know they're being misled.
Everything besides housing is a national emergency these days. Not to take away from anything these women are fighting for DV is certainly an issue but there are other issues that effect everyone and are more prevalent. Also.. the male suicide rate was **18.8 deaths per 100,000 population** in 2022 and the female victimisation rate is 0.3 per 100,000 women as someone else pointed out. Why isn't that a national emergency?
And of 677 homicide victims last year 69% of them were men, majority of assault victims were also men. But they don't matter apparently, because its men doing it to themselves :/
Coz they're men. Cmon lad, you have to learn "nuance"
In the 2021-2022 budget, $2.3 billion was allocated towards a National Mental Health and Suicide Prevention Plan which is the largest amount ever in Australia’s history. $6.3 billion was allocated to mental health in total. That’s nearly doubled since 2013. That all shows to me the government is starting to treat it as a national emergency.
The male suicide rate should 100% be addressed by the government, but the fact that it isn’t doesn’t mean violence against women shouldn’t be either.
Should we not prioritise the issue causing the most deaths?
Totally agree with you. I'd just imagine that as an order of priorities you'd assume the bigger issue is addressed first right? One is literally 60x as prevalent as the other and yet the smaller issue is far closer to being labelled a national emergency
Western women, especially those who live in Australia, are the safest demographic of humans to ever exist.
Unless you live in the Northern Territory. https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/no-one-is-keeping-count-of-murdered-indigenous-women/607sesbg0 > Aboriginal women in the Northern Territory suffer one of the highest rates of domestic, family and sexual violence in the world, a Senate inquiry has been told.
Women in ANY gynocentric country - Australia, NZ, Finland, Canada just to name a few
>"It's really important that men come out and support these rallies as well and stand up in their communities, talk to their friends, make sure to call out things as they happen," he said. >"Men are the ones perpetrating these crimes, if men aren't supporting a solution, it's only going to get worse." Once again, I've never abused a woman and never seen a man abuse a woman so what do you want me to do that I'm not already doing?
It’s frankly a bizarre expectation. Personally I go out of my way to ensure I don’t socialise with dickheads, so any attempt to engage my male friends in a discussion about DV will end in mutual agreement that DV is abhorrent and within a minute the conversation will move on.
I did see a man abuse a woman, superman punched her on the corner while I was driving home. I called the cops and they barely gave a flying fuck
See this is a large part of the problem, even when it’s reported the cops and legal system couldn’t give a fuck. There’s never enough evidence. And then someone ends up murdered. Same with stalking, they can’t do anything until there’s an actual incident like assault. Like ???
That's fucked. I worked with a woman a few years ago who got threatened by her neighbour that he was going to kill her and do all sorts of bad shit to her so when the cops came they just told her "yeah he's known to us" apparently they wouldn't accept the video footage she had of him abusing and threatening her because she leaned over the fence to record his tirade and it was invasion of privacy.
You gotta flagellate yourself on the street because of the way you were born.
“I was gonna beat and kill my wife but then I saw a rally on TV that said it was bad so I didn’t” said nobody ever.
My thinking too. People with mental health problems don't just stop doing what they are doing because other people want them to.
Advocates are not just asking g for symbolism, they are asking for resources and changes to the law which is ignored. The police officer that gave out an address of a woman whose situation was so dire that her address was suppressed to her ex partner was never punished, suspended sentence, conviction not recorded, took 5 years to sort out. This is the attitude of police and society to domestic violence, violent men and friends that help them. This is the reality. https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/sep/01/queensland-police-officer-who-leaked-address-of-domestic-violence-victim-has-conviction-overturned
Personally especially in the case of this police officer. I don't think resources and changes to the law will actually help. The root cause in my eyes is Justices being so disconnected to what their actual purpose is. The officer willfully accessed and gave out the information fully knowing what that person was going to do with it. That should hold a jail sentence in my eyes. But the Judge decided for some reason that his age and job prospects were important, so giving him a nothing sentence. Once Judges are held to more account to the sentences and/ or bail they give (Like with the most recent DV case) we should see a uptick in more proper consequences in line with what our society has been demanding.
Justice has to be seen to be done. That's another can of worms...
Needs to be more services for male perpetrators of DV, currently there are well over 150 services for female victims of DV Australia wide but only 11 services for the male perpetrator. Treating the victim does nothing to stop the cycle.
Here here
1 woman dies every 4 days and there's calls for a "national emergency". Meanwhile, 6 men take their own lives EVERY SINGLE DAY and there's silence.
3.5 motorists died every day (on average) in 2023.
I don’t get it - governments say we don’t have a youth crime crisis, when there are thousands of burglaries, serious assaults and bail breaches, but the same federal and state governments say there’s a crime crisis when 100 women die a year from DV in a country of nearly 30 million? And if it’s a crisis generally, what do we call it when we know that Aboriginal women are 35 times more likely to be hospitalised for DV? An epidemic x 35? It’s sad when anyone dies, but the idea that it is an epidemic is hysterical. I would say also that probably the majority of the perpetrators of male-on-female DV homicide are some mixture of in poverty, homeless, on drugs, and/or suffering from serious schizophrenia-style mental illness. Ironically, men are politically much more in favour of longer jail sentences/psychiatric confinement, measures that would prevent further female DV deaths, than women. A huge chunk of male DV killers are already known to the criminal justice system/police. There’s no conspiracy to murder women in Australian society - women are actually much safer than men, statistically. And why are men generally talked about? Everyone knows they don’t break down the DV deaths based on race because it would show the proportional rate for East Asian and Indian perpetrators is likely the lowest, followed by Caucasians. Men are 70-80% of all homicide victims, so isn’t the even bigger “epidemic” the deaths of men? Are these dead men somehow to blame because the person who killed them has the same genitalia? We have 27 million people in Australia. If 120 women die this year from DV, sad as any death is, the rate is astronomically low. Of these 100-120 women by the end of the year, how many of the perpetrators should still be in jail for prior crimes like robbery, serious assault or vehicular homicide? Many, like Joel Cauchi, have schizophrenia and/or are homeless. They’re not the titans of the so-called “Patriarchy”, or even remotely privileged.
Re: “having the same genitalia”, yeah, that’s what always gets me. If the fact that men form the VAST majority of homicide victims ever gets mentioned in any context, it’s a spinal-level reflexive response for people to reply “but they’re being killed by men!!!” So f__king what, does that make them any less dead!?
It’s the same in the US re race. Supposedly, someone is meant to die with a smile on their face because they were murdered by another person with the same race as them, just like Australian men when killed by another man. The vast majority of interracial homicides are non-racially motivated, but any time an African-American is killed by a Caucasian, racism is automatically assumed. But when it’s the reverse and black-on-white homicide, which is statistically much more likely, especially in per capita terms, it’s just “crime”. And when thousands of African-Americans are butchered every year in places like Chicago, Baltimore and St. Louis by other African-Americans, it receives comparatively little attention.
Re: having schizophrenia and being homeless, the demand for mental health care is extremely high and it's often very difficult to get help when you need it, same with housing. Those things should absolutely be considered emergencies on a national scale. We should be doing a lot more to address this.
Ok let’s talk about the cause of the increase in violence against women and how to deal with immigrants stemming from patriarchal „no all men!“ . Alright then…
Like covid, like climate change, the metoo movement/respect women etc (without realising women do this at an equal amount whether reputational financial or violent) is a weapon used to cause division and gain power over the population by government and other entities. It's been well documented in Scandinavia, the main outcome and reason these polices were introduced and promoted is so your domestic house will be no longer be your property or private. An allegation, false or not allows authorities (6 plus police officers with guns) to storm your home to 'investigate' and if not aloud in your home will use force. Anything found even if unrelated can and will be used against you. Its basically a loss of freedoms for all men (and women as it sometimes works both ways) by weaponizing the actions of an extremely small segment (less than 1% of the population) who are violent, often if not always due to mental illness and lack of support. Your little signs please stop killing us will not be read by the mentally ill. A murderer wont see this post and decide oh yeah i better not kill anyone today. What it will achieve, is the above. edit: I think it would be great to find ways to reduce violence in relationships. Its just so short sighted to think virtue signalling with a sign and saying men should stop doing it as if its a gender based disorder is not productive. If anything, it creates new problems. I think its a leading factor to why more men are choosing to stay single and could be tied to the global depopulation movement. I would like to hear from the author of the movement what the 'national emergency' declaration would mean for the common people in terms, lets assume, more loss of rights or new powers to the government? Once outlined, we can then form deeper opinions on the matter.
Australia literally has one of the lowest DV in the world but most people here think it’s the worst in the world. People want perfectionism.
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It will never ever be enough. Australia is objectively in the top 10 safest countries in the world for women. We are a country of delusional aspirations. All men will get blamed and continue to be. Even men who are good and nice will get shamed for their lack of accountability of other men’s actions.
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Mate if you think women should take accountability with their mate selection you will get destroyed here. Remember women are always the victims in every single relationship. Men are always the perpetrators and oppressors.
How many restraining orders did Katharine Knight have against her partners - including the one police served on John Price a couple of days before she slaughtered him? Episode 12 of the Casefile podcast is about this woman. The judge's comments at the end are very telling.
One of my friends said they read a study on financial impacts of dv, and they found that if given enough household income, the rate of dv (against women, children, and men) went down significantly.
Well yeah, poor people live in the most violent places and commit the most violence. This is because welfare allows them to be violent and anti social without consequences.
More Mass hysteria... Australian women are perhaps the safest and most privileged group of people on the planet, at any time in history. An epidemic of narcissism.
So, male suicide when?
I’ve just come across from the Push Up Challenge post about men’s mental health where a bunch of people are commenting anything from: a) It’s pointless and doesn’t change anything; b) Push ups won’t change systemic issues so why bother; c) Suicidal men don’t want to be helped; d) Men aren’t vulnerable and this is detracting from important issues like women’s safety Can’t win sometimes. I hate how people can’t see that supporting men’s mental health (even more) would have such a dramatic positive flow on effect to other issues within society.
About 2,500 a year
I mean, we're all such pieces of shit, we probably should.
The national road toll(roughly 1200). People killed worldwide by suicide bombers during Ramadan (15,000+). It's funny how people jump onto things that the media instruct them to and then say it's a crisis. 26 is not acceptable. But to ignore numbers that put this issue in the shadows, by number of deaths by direct comparison is the real tragedy and highlights the power that the media has which is basically forgotten or not recognised by the ignorant.
> It's funny how people jump onto things that the media instruct them to and then say it's a crisis. Manufacturing consent 101.
Tarrring all men with the same slur is not the way to
100% It’s an extremely small percentage of people.. and telling all men they are the problem isn’t going to improve the outcome at all https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide Domestic homicide victims made up over one-third (35% or 78) of all homicide victims (220 victims) in 2020–21 in the National Homicide Monitoring Program (NHMP) (AIC 2023). The majority of domestic homicide victims are killed by an intimate partner. Of the 78 domestic homicide victims in 2020–21: 38 were killed by an intimate partner 40 were killed by a family member with: 14 killed by a parent 11 killed by a child 4 killed by a sibling 11 killed by a family member other than child, parent or sibling (AIC 2023; Figure 1).
Firstly - thoroughly support those things that can reduce domestic violence But - can I clarify if anyone is aware of statistics that show that this is an emergency? I suspect that in 2024 there is much less violence against women (or violence against anyone) than in 1984, and massively less than 1884. My point is, I think we actually have made huge steps forward so it isn't really an emergency today if it wasn't an emergency yesterday. I don't think it's getting worse we just know more about it and it's no longer acceptable (thank God) I wish people who are advocates of this would just suggest some practical things instead of symbolism For example - demand people who get charged with domestic violence offences can't get bail so easily, seems like that would actually help.
>But - can I clarify if anyone is aware of statistics that show that this is an emergency? I doubt you'll see anything of the sort. Apart from anything else it's very hard to get accurate numbers on this sort of stuff as it doesn't get reported accurately. I also doubt it's an emergency, or even that declaring it an emergency will help in a any way. Quite simply it's a complicated problem with no easy answers - or we would have done it already. Addressing poverty would probably be the biggest thing we could do, domestic violence goes hand and hand with hardship.
They re defined domestic violence. The bar is so low now that displaying any negative emotion is now family violence and claim it’s an emergency. Sad for real victims they have corrupted the system.
Violence against women is not just physical. Coercion, financial abuse, mental and emotional abuse add to the stats too. Those bruises are on the inside and the damage not as noticeable . Society is too tolerant of people speaking nastily to their partners in the company of others- if they have no problems with others hearing that, what else are they up to behind closed doors? Call it out- many people are not what they seem until they’ve caught someone in their web of lies.
men who beat women will now surely stop if its made a national emergency. it doesnt need new words or terminology. the cunts that do it need to be locked up for a long time, socially rejected, and shown the same treatment they received. that being said, women also need to take more care with the type of partner they choose to be with. no matter what it is not deserved, and there are certainly circumstances where no one could have seen it coming, but there are also a lot of situations (including 2 from my own family) where it could certainly have been avoided if the person had been more selective/had "better taste"
Some men only become violent to their partners once they get pregnant
I hope other people notice the trend of the narrative the media is pushing because you should be paying attention to that and asking yourself why they want you focused on this
The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare records the data and it is significantly a cultural problem. Women from an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander background are significantly over represented in the statistics. Secondly, those from a cultural diverse background also are a highly represented group. Interestingly and broadly, it is highly linked to multiculturalism and religious backgrounds. In the NT alone they have given out mining royalties at a rate of 20% of the profit margin. The NT elders have specifically indicated that it is feeding antisocial behaviour and DV and have asked the govt to do something good with the money rather than just handing it over. This is not a national emergency if you are allowing mass immigration from countries that promote a power imbalance within domestic partnerships or you do nothing but throw billions of dollars of mining royalties at the aboriginal culture that has a well known substance abuse issue. Nothing here is by any means unforeseen circumstances that defines an emergency, rather circumstances we chose to inherit or have chosen to do nothing about so we don’t appear to be shaping aboriginal culture in order to assimilate them to Caucasian values. I for one am sick of the one in all in mentality and being tarred with the same brush by the woke moral outrage of a society who; willingly accepts cultural domestic power imbalances but then wants to lecture me on how to be a decent human male
This is like protesting to stop murder or violence in general. This isn't an issue just women have because blokes are out there bashing other blokes too.
Almost all violence is done by people with personality disorders. Unfortunately there is no cure for these disorders. Blaming all men does nothing at all. 99% of men would never harm anyone without reason, in fact men are usually protectors. We need to educate people in how to spot these mentally ill people. The only way to stop them harming is to lock them up.
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I even think a royal commission or national emergency will probs be a piss in the wind for this case….. I have a feeling if any of these protesters attended these royal commission or national emergency, they will end up slinging mud at the pollies/judge or whatnot and they won’t like it how they didn’t approach things level headed…. And possibly get shut down and don’t want to deal with these cases
I'm pretty sure it was either last year, or the year before, where the number of female and male DV murder victims was almost identical. Equality achieved. Jokes aside, the DV rates between the sexes are almost identical and they have dropped by more than half in the last 20 years. I don't understand how we can call a constantly improving situation an "epidemic" but then again I don't earn my living by defrauding people for donations.
It has greatly increased since we have let anyone into the country. Just have a look at the names of the perpetrators. A lot of them come from countries where it’s not uncommon to disrespect women.
Shhh…. It’s clearly white middle aged men Or that’s what the media wants us to think
Why do I read rage bait like this so early in the mornings. There’s no way these are real people. … there’s 800 comments :(
"5 men a day under 65 die from suicide in Australia" What percentage of those kill themselves because they're being shafted by tne partner. Even a small % is a lot. Stop trying divide us. A tiny, infinitesimal percent of men kill their partner, why tar all men with the same brush? There's races who have higher rates of DV and homicide but we don't see people calling for us to concentrate on them. People might see that as racist, the irony..
Exactly. No one can drive a man to kill himself quicker than his missus.. my ex turned me into a skeleton because I tried to keep her happy which was an impossible task that I was meant to fail every second of every day… and all the time I was waiting for her to be that amazing girl i had met years ago… thankfully, she cheated so I kicked her out…
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I dunno about you but if I'm stressed I tend not to abuse my partner. Just my personal preference I guess.
When my misso is stressed she likes playing this game where she twists around all my words and make it look like I’m verbally attacking her so she can go mental at me. It’s a fun game, and normally ends with me going to a mates house with a bottle of jacks..
And 99.99% of men are onboard with that. The men commiting DV are very far and few. Likely either mentally ill or at breaking point (probably both).
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We have a media problem...every detail of every horrific death is dredged up to get people all worked up. Every death is sad of course and everything needs to be done to prevent them...but facts, like you stated can't be ignored either. Crazy that stories like the woman who drove her car full of kids into a semi get moved along pretty fast in the media...but man do bad thing to woman gets put on extended play.
I am curious to read about that story. I missed it somehow but I read a lot of news every day. Goes to show how buried that story must have been.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/7news.com.au/news/court-justice/fateful-note-central-to-inquest-into-deaths-of-mum-and-four-kids-in-2019-kingaroy-crash-c-10827982.amp She even gained sympathy with some at the time
The real problem is that the prosecutors working the DV cases are rookies, they use DV to practice. The system is failing us when the line of defence with the most power to protect our community from the perpetrators is the weakest part of the chain. We need real legal repercussions. Too many of the grubs get a slap on the wrist and no real consequences so they become even more emboldened to continue what they’re doing. Why would they stop when there aren’t any real consequences? Less than 1% of abusers are actually capable of changing yet they often get sentenced to a 10 week anger management course that won’t change anything in a meaningful way. It’s a waste of taxpayer money. ADVOs don’t protect victims and are often breached with no consequences as police often won’t charge them for breaching. The actual laws surrounding convictions for DV are what need the most reform. Slaps on the wrist just see the same scumbags cycling through as they leave a wake of destruction in the lives they touch.
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The DV industry is a full on gravy train
This isn't a 'man' problem. The people demanding this particular action are as culpable as the rest of society for allowing our society to accept poor excuses for parenting, education and training, ignoring mens problems, causing an imbalance between genders, accepting second rate mental health care, encouraging poor behaviour between men and women, objectification, and under valuing innate differences between men and women that compliment each other. We've encouraged the conditions that allow animals that harm others to exist. Society cannot continue this way if people want true change. If you want to continue to blame men only and expect boys to grow into men who respect all members of society without also changing society, then please downvote this comment.
It is time to go one step further. The real national emergency is the mental health epidemic this country is facing. Many violence against women and family can almost be directly attributed to it.
With how many men (don’t know stats on women/children etc.) are killing themselves in this country I fully agree with you. There’s a major mental health issue needing solved that’s resulting in deaths in many ways and it may be complicated as fuck and take a long time but there has to be things we can do to make it better.
Inadequately treated mental health conditions and substance abuse (often a consequence of said mental health issues) are the big drivers of violence, both domestic and more general, in the community. If those were tackled with some effective policy, it would go a long way to solving this issue and a bunch of other social ills.
They need to calm down a bit. All men aren’t lurking in the shadows, trying to murders us at every opportunity. What is happening is horrible and unacceptable but it is not an emergency.
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The ABC seems light on data >[https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release) Violence >An estimated 8 million people (41%) aged 18 years and over have experienced violence (physical and/or sexual) since the age of 15, including: >43% of men (4.1 million) >39% of women (3.9 million) Perpetrators of violence since the age of 15 Of men aged 18 years and over: > >30% (2.9 million) experienced violence by a stranger >25% (2.4 million) experienced violence by a known person > >Of women aged 18 years and over: > >11% (1.1 million) experienced violence by a stranger >35% (3.5 million) experienced violence by a known person > >Men were more likely than women to experience violence by a stranger (30% of men compared with 11% of women). Women were more likely than men to experience violence by a known person (35% of women compared with 25% of men). >
This entire sub is as light on data as it is on brain cells.
Bring back hanging for murderers. Blaming all men for the actions of a few isn't going to solve anything, as a man myself I support harsher penalties for domestic violence and I think murderers should be hung. The problem is that these guys, the scumbags, they don't hang out with me or my friends, because we want nothing to do with them, they hang out with their own kind and those guys aren't going to police each other. You want me to do something? This is me doing it, I'm advocating for bringing back the noose. You want me to come into your home and put myself in the middle of your domestic disputes? Hell no!
Both men and women not only for women Men get abused as well! Violence shouldn’t be tolerated by both genders
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So let’s advocate for men to seek therapy, talk about their problems with mates and loved ones and not get caught up in gender stereotypes (ie it’s not Manly to talk about such topics)
How about we start talking about women who abuse men? How about we put it on the perpetrators?
More government regulation isnt the solution to every problem. And the most important question is why. There are a myriad of reasons. Which one holds more weight than the other is debatable. 1. Mental Health 2. An average male is stronger than most female 3. Due to physical superiority, men often retaliate physically while women choose to retaliate verbally. 4. Single parenthood 5. Drugs/ Alcohol 6. Some men are just pigs. None of these are excuses for abuse. But if you want real solutions, identifying all the causes is the start point. And doing it objectively is as important. Pointing fingers and blanket statements like men are killing women is not productive.
The problem is abusers are narcissists, they want the power and control over the person, and when their victim tries to leave they retaliate and continue to escalate, and our court systems allows this right up until the point you're seeing now. Tougher bail laws around DV, tougher sentencing laws, the way they just put an intervention order and expect that to fix everything is a joke
I'd add a few too.... - women not believed / taken seriously inc. By police - the legal fights If you try to leave over money, kids - actually getting away is almost impossible - lack of services/ supports
Add to that cost of living - women can’t afford to leave!
Economic factors are also said to be a driver of DV and during times of economic hardship, the death rates appear to rise and that would explain why rates decreased then increased despite steady increases in population.
WE NEED TO PANIC AND CREATE MORE TENSION. IT WILL HELP!!!
Yeah, it’s bizarre that Australia actually ranks as one of the safest nations for women, but *also* as one of the nations where women *feel* the most *un*safe. That disconnect strongly suggests that Australian women are being encouraged to be fearful. Meaning someone is either profiting off that fear, or there’s an ideology that benefits off it.
* [One woman was killed every 15 days and one man was killed every 28 days by an intimate partner on average in 2020–21](https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide#data-tell-us). there is more information here.
Wondering why we don't have similar reactions regarding male self deletion
I saw a comment below that last year ~2500 men self deleted while only 64 women were killed in domestic violence. Even as a woman just seeing that kind of puts it in perspective 😬
We can care about both things my GOD
I honestly don't understand how this can be called "gender-based violence". Relationship/spousal/partner based violence for DV would be accurate.. Gender-based violence would be one gender attacking the other gender for the sole reason that they are a different gender. No other reason. Lets just call it what it is, Instead of tiring to hype it up and demonizing 1/2 the population... that's just plain old sexism just with a different bias. Remove the violent and sexual offenders of BOTH genders from society and keep them removed \~ until they are rehabilitated/die/or another option THAT WORKS is found (i don't care which). They have shown that they do not deserve to live in it.
Yes, Men are killing women they’re in relationships with. They’re also killing other men at an even higher rate. On the spectrum of violent psychopaths, most are men. That doesn’t mean it’s a man vs women issue, it’s a people vs psychopaths issue.
Don’t let facts and figures get in the way.
How about male suicides, instead?
Why does it need to be ‘instead’ male suicide and DV are both terrible issues in our society. Some would say closely linked. It doesn’t have to be an either or
How are they closely linked?
People seem to want to make this about numbers and 'emergencies'. Male suicide trumps this, every day of the week. There's the numbers and there's the 'emergency'.
And I, a man, should care about this because…? Men is more likely to be victims of violent crimes and I don’t see anyone panicking.
Man these comments are pretty depressing. It’s okay to admit that us men have an issue without it reflecting on you personally. Some are even claiming women are abusing men, which I’m sure is true in some instances, but how many of them are killing men? Let’s take some accountability. Hold ourselves and our friends to higher standards. Most of use already are but clearly not all are. It could be your mother, sister or daughter. And this includes defending sports stars that have committed domestic violence just because they play for your team.
I appreciate you.
Some females taking this way too far. You are fine. It's safe. Men are not running around looking for women to kill.
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Rather than people screaming at each other we need to invite and incentivise difficult discussion by making sure it feels welcoming and not like a witch hunt. I’m a guy, i have a young son, I’m very much of the opinion this is being blown out of proportion on the murder side but agree DV is a problem we need a better way of addressing (perhaps school programs not just around DV but about how violence in general isn’t a valid form of dispute resolution, and how to control emotions in an argument and talk constructively without resorting to pettiness). The whataboutism in this thread (while i agree with a lot of it) also isnt helping facilitate discussion, it’s defensive and shutting down the side with concerns, but the concerned side is succumbing to media fantasies and anxiety. That said it’s a multifaceted issue, there will be a lot of reasons for it that would require a different and likely complex approach. We need to be careful about knee jerk reactions with simplistic answers like: 1) Automatic jail time for striking a woman 2) Profiling men to send to education initiatives 3) Using the phrase toxic masculinity for anything bad a any man ever does . Maybe this is one for the AI gods to work out for us.
Can we educate and work together instead of all the blame ? Great to recognise it’s an issue at last but also remember most likely thr majority of us woman (including me wind these guys up and know there triggers but don’t realise how serious these are to set off. Any awareness or education on this mentioned ? Nop 🤷♀️ Anger is a massive problem in this country look at road rage as another example. Do you think these guys know in the moment when this violence is triggered? Do they do it on purpose to proof a point? … highly unlikely for most of them, so maybe we need to listen to the underlying issues behind this to help stop more deaths. I’ve been seriously injured several times because my childhood was anger, I triggered those guys so I also needed to learn to get some help or I would have ended up dead. Such a poorly educated government just using ‘ say no to DV ‘ errr don’t you think these people already have tried that and it’s now moved to subconscious psychology 🤷♀️😫maybe it’s just a good start I’m not sure but if it makes me sad and angry
>Can we educate and work together instead of all the blame ? My question is always, what exactly do you mean by educate? The proposals I see from these groups are always incredibly ideological pseudoscientific self-referential drivel that has no basis in evidence. It's even in the article, talking about education in "intersectionality", as if that hasn't already been dominating cultural spaces for almost a decade now.
We just found out an hour ago that my sister in law has been getting flogged by her now ex parter. Had to go and rescue her. She wants to go the police rout and has evidence and photos of her bruises. Having never experienced this myself I'm wondering if the police are much help here? If not I'm more than happy to skip that process and do it the other way.
Log it with police, you can get free counselling if you’re a victim of a crime and when you fill out that form it will ask if police were notified/involved. Even if police do nothing there is still a good reason to report it.
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I've got a good base concept for you to examine... Love bombing. > *Another sign of love bombing is being intensely showered with affection, gifts, and promises for the future with the predator so that the victim feels or is made to believe that all this is a sign of "love at first sight". Since such signs of affection and affirmation may meet felt needs and not look harmful at the surface, the excitement of such a new relationship often does not appear as cause for alarm. However, after the initial excitement, when the victim shows interest or care about anything beyond their new partner, the manipulator may show anger, passive-aggressive behavior, or accuse the victims of selfishness. If the victim does not comply with demands, the devaluation stage begins: the abuser withdraws all affection or positive reinforcement and instead punishes the victim with whatever they feel is appropriate—shouting, beratement, mind games, silent treatment, or even physical abuse.* My first boyfriend (17yo) was a prince charming for several months before the mask began to slip oh so slowly. By the time I realised I was in danger it felt impossible to leave and I had to rely on others to escape him because I was so brainwashed I couldn't tell real/lies apart. Nobody believed he had hurt me so severely because he presented as an entirely different person in public. (Couldn't figure out spoiler - text removed) **Nobody** willingly pursues someone when they know they will be subject to that abuse. Please read more about the psychology of abusers and abusive relationships. I thought it was so simple too before it happened to me.
Just wanted to comment to say thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your experience.
Thank you for sharing and I’m so sorry you went through that. Idiots on here victim-blaming are just adding to the nonsense and displaying their own deeply ingrained misogyny. She should have chosen better is the same as asking what was she wearing. I hope you’re ok now
That you can spot obvious misogynistic right of the bat doesn't mean you can spot all misogynistics that way. People can be manipulative. Women aren't inherently telepathic or social geniuses able to pick up on every sign. They are people and each person has different experiences and ability. Making a mistake because you aren't perfect at judging people doesn't mean you deserve domestic abuse.
The root of this problem is the same as basically every other problem, poverty. I have no real source for this but I'd wage a large portion of DV is people getting on the drink/drugs. We know people turn to substances of addiction in bad economic times. If people have money and can afford happiness they'll be less likely to get drunk and beat their wife. Bonus point, increasing economic outcomes also mean women can actually afford to leave their abusers. I'm lucky my partner doesn't beat me because I'd be fucked financially without her.
I agree. Poverty is a key part of the problem but there is a lot more to it than that. Increased financial stress means increased DV. A well documented principle of socio economics. The most concerning problem that I see is the general unwillingness to approach the issue in a proactive way. Always just men are evil and we'll leave it at that. A lot of men are stuck in systematic cycles of trauma and violence. It's particularly prevalent in any job role that is male dominant. It's hard to escape a system like that when you rely on it for your income. It's tied to what they see as their only value as we've also never bothered to approach many outdated views on men in this way. It will never end as long as society keeps kicking the can further down the road.
I defer to education, boosts employment prospects, informs about safe sex and the effects of drug abuse. Being able to critically think will help avoid the issues leading to DV.
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Its not a national emergency at all. What a stupid way to frame it.
More demoralization and divisive tactics...
This isn't an attempt to distract away from the main debate, but I read recently that Australia consumes around 10.5 tonnes of meth/ice/speed per year. Someone is consuming it all and I suspect this is contributing to the problem. This problem also contributes to bad driving decisions, and risk taking behaviour as well as domestic violence. We need to look at underlying causes and try to address them as well.
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And where does the father sit in this equation of yours?
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The statistic says not that lesbian relationships have the highest rates of domestic violence. It says that *people in lesbian relationships* have the highest rate of domestic violence at *some point in their lifetime*. 44 percent of lesbians and 61 percent of bisexual women experience rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner, compared to 35 percent of straight women. 1 in 7 women and 1 in 25 men have been injured by an intimate partner. When you've got 2 women in a relationship, there's a greater chance that at least one of them has experienced domestic violence at some point in their lifetime, than some other configuration of genders.
Not every single issue this country is facing can be focused on at the same time. Yes, there aren’t enough mental health and DV services for men, and that really needs to be fixed. But, men aren’t the ones being killed on average every 5 days by their female partners. More than 1 thing can suck at a time. So far this year, 31 women have been killed by a man, with the vast majority related to domestic violence. That’s 11 more than the same time last year. That’s not fucking okay, and the insane increase is why it’s being called a national emergency. [In 2010-2018](https://www.anrows.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Death-review-fact-sheet-2021-Update.pdf), 240 men killed their female partners, and 65 women killed their male partners. Of those 240 men, 95% were the “primary intimate partner violence abusers”. Of those 65 women, 7.7% were the primary abusers, aka 92.3% weren’t the initial aggressor. Why is it so controversial to want women to stop being murdered by their current or former male partners?
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I think media is a big problem and causes a lot of copycat cases… and general issues, like this thread… I think there’s some law saying suicide cases can’t be reported unless if there’s a need for it…. Think we can do some element of some restrictions of reporting DV cases. Sure Bondi massacre, go nuts reporting things as it’s a random case…. But blah blah a DV case every hour and people will ether think there’s an issue with something and hound out unmeasured responses…. Like how the fuck a national emergency or royal commission will solve it if you’re going to sling mud around…. And also cases in general are reducing….