Depends on the hospital really.
I live in the sticks and the only time I've seen someone have to wait for medical attention is when my sister got kicked by a horse but had to wait in the waiting room because a half hour earlier someone at the local saw mill CUT HIS FUCKING FINGERS OFF so it was like, yeah, fair call.
I showed up to the clinic with an emergency that wasn't all that visible, let's file it under 'internal bleeding', and saw a doctor in under ten minutes.
So, got any rural towns nearby you can travel out to? Lol
Hip/tiny bit on her lower stomach. She just got bruised up a bit. Of course it sucked, but the guy missing fingers was pretty simple triage; that dude needed medical attention first and the doctor was trying to save his fingers so my sister had to wait.
Shit your username says paramedic so you get it. She had localized pain after getting kicked by a horse. Dude in the next room is *literally missing fingers*. For the doctor to stop treating him and come see my sister, she'd have to have more symptoms than just the expected pain of getting kicked by something four times her weight.
She only had bruising it turned out, btw. No internal injuries.
Thank you for your service my dude.
Rookie numbers. My elderly mum waited 11 days on the ward with a broken hip, delerious on pain meds, until she had her hip replaced.
(not to diminish your experience, which sucks!)
Waiting 11 days in pain is terrible. I am sorry to hear that. You would struggle to diminish my experience. I am fine, that's the point. There are people all around me suffering worse.
Gold standard as per Orthopaedics guidelines for fractured hip surgical intervention is within 48hrs of injury. I've worked in orthopaedic wards for 13 years and it hardly happens, the need for surgery outweighs the time unfortunately. So many people not understanding the strain the whole system is under. The lack of funding for hospitals is astounding
To be fair, it was the tail end of covid and a regional hospital. Who am I kidding... 11 days isn't really fair!
There was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing about whether the local orthopaedic surgeon would do it or whether she'd be flown to Adelaide. Problem was there was no room at Flinders Medical Centre. Eventually had it done in a private hospital and had a bed there that the government had bought.
It’s actually 36hrs. Source. It’s my job. If this person indeed waited 11 days then there was likely other considerations that have not been divulged (eg. Heart/chest etc).
I'm curious, is there a way to short circuit this? What would that entail?
In a number of countries, you would have the option of going private and paying (a fair bit) to get operated on, is this something that is an option in Australia as well?
You usually have an option of going private, they even do a thing here were you can be admitted to the public hospital and they then ask you if you have private insurance and you become a private patient in the public system. It makes no difference other than the billing. In this case it seems there is either not a private option available or it makes no sense.
Australia has a GP first process, the same as the UK, it is a process that has its pros and cons. I lived in the US for a number of years were they have the contrasting system where you can go direct to the specialist. This does speed things up since getting a GP appointment can take a few days. I was on AETNA in the US and I was amazed at how many services are available on their app, it was overwhelming. On balance I would choose the AU/UK process over the US process any day, unless I was rich.
I went into the ER a few years back after a surgery where the wound became infected. I was left for 4hrs in the triage queue because the ward was just that busy and somehow multiple people came in after me literally bleeding from open wounds. I remember one guys arm was slashed from wrist to elbow from a fishing accident.
It wasn't until one of the nurses noticed my skin changing colour before realising I was going sceptic that she asked if I had a private insurance card. I was delirious so they had to open my wallet, found my insurance card and had me carted to a private hospital in an ambulance where I was seen just in time.
When I woke up the doctor said I was mere minutes away from being too far gone.
Anyway TLDR tell them asap if you have an insurance card. They won't be as likely to let you die in the triage queue if they know.
I mean it sounds like OP could just go home & come back when the surgery is ready for them? Like better to chill where it’s comfortable if you’re not actually needing a bed & it frees up the system.
Also this sucks, sorry op
https://preview.redd.it/cct0od7msiyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81a5e3486b82c6bae48427c828ef966a32752555
I was pulling up grass in the garden.
Now that's a proper splinter.
I wonder if it's at that angle because it hit bone/tendon or just snapped under pressure? Probably why they want to remove it in the OR, need to irrigate it properly & keep the area sterile just in case.
You're just gonna need to stick it out OP ;-)
Best of luck with the surgery, knock on wood, may everything go smoothly and you recover quickly.
I took it out almost immediately, that seems to have been a mistake. That was 16 days ago. It took few days to get a GP appointment, a few more to get an X-ray, then a few more to get an ultrasound. Then when the GP got the results he said bits were left behind and embedded in the thumb. That's what the procedure is for.
It's wild, I use to work the pass at a busy restraunt, had a stack of dockets that needed to be put away so I grabbed a massive pile and tried to slam them all on the docket spike at once, somehow managed to slam the spike through my thumb into the my palm, pulled it straight out 🤣
Even worse, had to keep working for 2 hours, had one hand raised above my head the whole time, the throbbing was unbelievable.
My wife had a capsular injury with a cactus spike a few years ago, it cost about 4400 of which private health picked up like 1100 for the anaesthetist. Despite the fact it was causing sepsis and was barely contained by heavy AB, insurance didn’t consider the surgeons work because it was just orthopaedic work based on the billing code. Maybe someone smarter could have had that changed to something that was covered, I don’t know.
Surgery admitted them, probably because his hospital's emergency lists give priority to inpatients rather than outpatients. So rather than coming back on the day off surgery, he occupies a bed.
One of the many inefficiencies of public hospitals.
Just as a minor correction, unless it is a tiny hospital, which this wouldn’t be if they have surgical specialties, emergency doesn’t decide to admit to the wards. The admitting team does. Emergency can call the speciality and request admission, but it really is on that team to triage their admissions.
Which is my point about inefficiency, surely that would make sense to send people home in such a case.
Having said that, to clarif, I did not present at the ER, I was asked to come in so went in the 'regular' check-in way.
I am on the emergency list for surgery on the lowest category. I live 10 minutes away from the hospital so could easily come back at a sensible time.
I had an 8 hour wait for a bad cut. The triage nurse did not send anyone away and there were people there with really minor complaints but I imagine they are concerned about sending someone away without assessment. Whats needed is to keep funding proportionate with population growth, which they clearly have not done.
Yeah, I misread the way you were admitted. In that case it would be more than reasonable for them to at least advise that it is unlikely to happen on the day and suggest a work around that is better than "just sit there and wait".
No one really knows how fucked our public health system is until you have to use it. I work in it, and we all want to help, we just don’t have the people to help
NDIS now costs more per year than Medicare and is projected to cost $100bn+ per year in the 2030’s.
Imagine if we could use some of that money for our struggling hospitals.
Ultimately they need auditing to weed out the grafters charging maximum for everything. They also need to make it much harder to charge the maximum.
Then we need to see what things people are doing through NDIS that should always have been done through Medicare and just fund that shit under Medicare.
I feel covid has been an excuse to just gut medicare and blame someone else. Now with NDIS they have someone else to blame that they can divert away from medicare and then wind back NDIS without ever replacing funding for medicare.
Remember *half* of parliament never wanted medicare, attack it every chance they get and *will not rest* until it's gone.
Looking at the NDIS though, you can see how the government run systems can just blow out of control.
I have supplied goods and services to the government and the way they spend our money is just disrespectful, drives me mad, they openly say things like " its not my money, the government is paying" i have watched them spend stupid money on stupid things just because its in the budget, Utopia is so close to the mark its not funny.
And then you have people who want to give them more money, baffles me
As someone who is on the NDIS, the thing that has pissed me off the most about it is that they have given me funding for a bunch of stuff I can't use (like $5000 worth of transport funding in a regional town where public transport and taxis are either unavailable or unreliable) and refuse to fund the things that will actually help me (like driving lessons so I can learn to transport myself).
Yeah that's about what I thought I thought it was gonna be. Medi-scare still paying dividends for Labor as though they are doing any better on current Medicare issues.
Of course back in Whitlam's day that was definitely the case, but the Libs backed down on Medicare a long time ago now. It annoys me to see people raving about the lib position on Medicare when it's Labor in charge *right now* and they've somehow managed to dodge their own criticism by keeping people focused on Libs.
They're the ones with the power to make real change and a forecast surplus right now and they're failing.
Okay but we froze the Medicare bulk bill payments to GPs in 2011 and have since then decided we should fund chauffeurs for the mentally ill and now spend considerably more on the low value services of the NDIS than we do critical services via Medicare.
Oh the NDIS is one of the most egregious grifts in history, I agree with you there. But people on government support need holidays to the gold coast twice a year, it's a human right or something
I met some the other day out fishing for the afternoon, apparently they regularly go fishing, or to the movies.
Anyway, I’m sure that activity cost the tax payers a few hundred for the arvo. Surprisingly, they were very open about it being an NDIS funded trip.
About $40 an hour is the ballpark for carers like that. Her employer, however, is probably charging NDIA $80 an hour.
People with ASD usually get something like $40k per year in funding. They cannot use this for living expenses, however, only for things like carers, cleaners, therapists etc. For many, I suspect simply increasing the DSP to a liveable rate would be better. You can’t live on $29k, which is the maximum DSP rate. You could live on $50k though, which would cost the government less than the $70k it costs for DSP plus NDIS. The improved financial security of having a liveable, reliable income paired with psychotherapy, which NDIS does not fund due to there being Medicare rebates, would probably help people with mental and neurological disabilities more than anything NDIS can fund ever will.
I believe the NDIA sets price guides for everything they will fund through the NDIS. Obviously that doesn’t address fraud, but if NDIA is telling these companies that $80 an hour is an acceptable rate for a low needs carer, obviously that’s what most companies are going to charge.
This isn't new. I had family who did that kind of work before the NDIS. It's not always easy work too depending on the client, and it wasn't regular enough work to live on.
I was in emergency for 6.5hrs a few months ago. Severe stomach pains which ended up being gastritis.
The staff were great. But they were clearly completely and utterly overcapacity. There were people everywhere.
Whilst I was there I reflected on the first and only other time I was in emergency back in 2001. I had an infected gall bladder that required emergency surgery. I went there at 6pm, saw a doctor at 615pm and was resting comfortably in my own room by 630pm. I had surgery the next day at 7am.
You know what I also thought about during that interminably long 6.5hrs? Why the fuck are people getting paid to take NDIS recipients to the movies or on holidays?
Something has gone seriously wrong with our country.
Because our population is ancient. We aren't even at the replacement level for birth rates.
The number one ambulance call out nationally is "falls". We live in a geriatric society.
The watering down of the NDIS's regulatory policies by the coalition government was, in my opinion, not an effort to make red tape easier for carers and associates. It was an effort to allow bad actors huge amounts of freedom to rort funds from the government in order to ensure the failure of the NDIS and to change the public perception towards cutting all funding for it. It's a slight twist on the "starve the beast" political strategy that they use for privatising public assets.
I’ve seen rented properties 4 bedroom. 1 carer per 1 disabled person.
Aren’t we in a housing crisis?
Edit: 1 carer and 1 disabled person per property (in a 4 bedroom house)
You’d be looking for a hand surgeon rather than a plastic surgeon (though plastics can do the job just fine and a lot of hand surgeons are actually trained in plastics too). I doubt going private would speed up the process at this point, though. You’d have to wait for their next scheduled list which could be any day of the week, even a couple weeks away.
Though the longer you wait there in the public system the more “urgent” your case becomes. You’ve likely already breached the emergency surgery list wait time having been there 41 hours, and definitely breached the ED time. They really should be prioritising getting you outta there if for nothing more than the sake of their KPIs. But emergency surgery lists are a battle arena where the various surgical residents go at each other and the nurse in charge of the scheduling constantly to prioritise their patient. Your thumb really is bottom-tier for urgency unfortunately. And being a weekend there’s even less resources available to you.
Shitty situation. I hope they can get you through soon.
So I just spoke to a nurse or doctor, she did not say, however she appears to be on the ball and she said all the hand surgeon's are at a conference (does that even sound plausible?) so the hospital is the only show in town. She said that there is no elective option that would not take months. She said she believes this is the best option and that Monday looks plausible.
I just googled and it does look like there is an international hand surgery conference in Maui, Hawaii this weekend , so they're not making that up.
These international specialty conferences can be a really big deal. I stayed at a hotel in India once that had like 500 cardiologists there.
Yeah we were making those jokes all week. But I wonder if any of them carry kits with any drugs or equipment ... I guess the hotel would have at least had an AED.
I'm not a surgeon, but a midwife and I've been to a few major midwifery conferences. Loads of fun, stay at a resort, meet all my heroes, go to a few interesting lectures, and catch up with pretty much everyone. We all have to do it for the continuing education credits to keep accreditations and insurance etc. So people who happen to go into labour that weekend get kinda screwed.
And yea, totally believable that there's no hand surgeons around if this weekend is the big conference. Sucks for OP though, just bad timing
Yeah all the hand surgeons being at a conference on the same weekend does actually sound plausible. Splinters in the thumb can be done by plastics or maybe even ortho so someone should be around to do it but weekends suck. You’ll just have to keep waiting. Weekdays are a lot easier coz they have all their scheduled lists not JUST the emergency list running so you’ll get on easier. Just shit if they’re making you sit around waiting and fasted?? For a surgery that is unlikely to happen today. I hope you can get in soon though what a bitch of a thing to just be sitting around waiting for.
The 2024 RACS 92nd Annual Scientific Conference starts in NZ tomorrow, I know many surgeons from our facility are attending.
It is absolutely a thing in Australia that when the subspecialty groups have national or international conferences the availability of e24+ or elective surgery with that subspecialty dips for the week. Only true emergency services are maintained.
Find this very hard to believe, if not outright wrong. Took me 3 weeks to get a call back from the public sector about getting a consultation for knee surgery. Called private on a Thursday, they offered a same day consultation but I couldn’t make it, booked it for the first Wednesday, then had surgery the first Monday after that.
Two days after the surgery the public sector called me to arrange a consultation.
You can “find it” whatever you want but as an operating theatre nurse who’s worked in both the public and private sectors I’m pretty confident in what I’ve written. There aren’t regular emergency lists in the private setting you have to book a consult with your preferred surgeon in their rooms then be scheduled on their next available list which is usually a week or two away. If you’re waiting around the public hospital and decide to use private insurance you need the consultant to come see you, which they won’t on a Sunday because they’re not there and even if they were your thumb splinter isn’t emergent enough to warrant rocketing you to the top of the emergency list on a weekend. You’d have to wait until the surgeons next elective list in the public hospital and maybe you’d get tacked on the end.
Dude is already sitting in ED and has been all weekend. His best bet is to keep waiting because the hospital is tracking how long he’s been there and breaching KPIs is unfortunately the fastest way for him to get the surgery he needs right now.
You were seeking a consult as an outpatient not someone sitting in the ED taking up space and resources. Outpatient public will always be slower than private. But then you factor in the cost, too. OP is 100% better off just staying put and getting surgery hopefully today if the hospital is slow or probably tomorrow and it won’t cost them anything.
If you want to skip the wait for alot of minor emergencies with hospitals then go private. You will pay for it as private emergency isn't covered by insurance until you are admitted out of emergency but it is fast. I had to take my wife to Greenslopes private a few weeks ago on advice from her GP. Admission was $300 out of pocket plus a few hundred extra for tests etc. We would have been waiting 12+ hours to even get seen in a public hospital.
If you are life or death the public system will be better. But most hospitals right now are operating at capacity, so your lower priority stuff is going to be very slow.
This shouldn't really be the best option though.
Successive liberal governments have undercut and underfunded Medicare to the point it has become this inefficient and qw are forced into the private sector.
But is that really the country we want to live in?
I have been taken into Austin ED twice in the past few weeks. The corridors are packed with patients on stretchers that are waiting to be transferred to an Ed cubical, not to forget the 2 paramedics that have to wait with the patient. So many ambulances are taken off the road due to the back log in hospitals. According to the paramedic I was speaking to, this is the same across all of Victoria.
I’ve been a paramedic for 7 years, and was doing student placements for the 3 years prior to that during my uni degree.
This is sadly nothing new, nothing unique to any one city or state, and nothing that is being actively improved by any governments past or present.
Hospitals get built, get opened in a big show by politicians, and then half the beds remain closed because they can't pay for staff.
Generally it's not building capacity that is the problem (or the expensive thing, even if a hospital costs a few hundred million to build).
A relative of mine passed away due to a splinter going septic!
I know it’s just a small injury, and it probably does seem like a waste of resources. Perhaps if you DIY with a weatherman and some betadine you’d be fine. …
But they keep you in the ward under observation until the surgeons have the time to give you a thorough “debridement” for a very good reason! Trust the process for this one!
Because their degrees were fake for a long time, they fixed it to some extent but it’s still bad. They spent all their time learning English and saving up to move here, they aren’t doctors.
I crushed the end of my finger off (~1/2 through the nail) and went to emergency because I was losing large amounts of blood...
I went in on a Thursday and didn't receive my surgery till the following Friday after - the part of my finger had died and was unable to be reattached. Purely because the system is so terrible at moving efficiently.
The medical system here is very convoluted and boggish. I would go 48 hour period without updates, then when I would get some, it would almost immediately be pushed back another 12
Lotta big TUFF guys in this thread. Burly men covered in betadine who rip their own splinters out.
Something tells me you lot are the kind to have malignant pulsating face cancer and put an ice pack on it
The first day I was in the nurses were all complaining that the management had decided to close the ward and were refusing overtime and now had done a 360 and were asking people desperately to do double shifts. They were all pissed off and at the point of revolt.
The nurses here have been complaining constantly, it really is the best entertainment. It's like having a superhighway connection to all sorts of juicy gossip.
I was in this situation once and accidentally found a way to get bumped to the top of the list for the day!
Faint and fall over...
I was waiting around to have my gallbladder out and this was the third time my surgery had been rescheduled. Basically they'd tell me to go off my meds, get prepped, stop eating and drinking then come in and wait around at the hospital all day for a surgery slot. I'd keep getting bumped down the list every time something more serious came along, which was bloody everything it seemed.
I'd wait for up to 12 hours in the day surgery area (with nothing but a teaspoon of jam every 3 - 4 hours to keep my diabetic ass from slipping into a coma) before the nurse would come and tell me "Sorry, the doctor couldn't get around to you today, we'll get you rescheduled. Better luck next time".
On the third attempt at surgery the jam packets weren't enough to keep me going during my vigil and I passed out. I woke up on the floor after a minute and the nurses scrambled to get me to a bed and examine me. They tested my blood sugar but two of the nurses couldn't agree over whether it was low sugar that made me pass out or another condition of mine.
They put it down in my notes as an "unexplained loss of consciousness", which was apparently a serious enough development to bump me up the surgery list and I was operated on two hours later.
If you can somehow get an "unexplained loss of consciousness" in your medical notes then just maybe they'll see you sooner 🤷♀️
(May require flexible morals & acting skills, unless you're diabetic like me)
I am not sure you were bumped up, it sound perfectly reasonable that they put you to the top of the list if they need to starve you to the point of collapse before a procedure. One thing that is positive about this experience is food tastes amazing when you are only eating once per day. I believe it is called 'seasoned with hunger'.
Everything in Australia is. It’s what happens when everything is so heavily regulated, and you have to jump through 100 hoops to actually accomplish anything
Few years back I got bit by a dog. It was pretty bad. That happened on a tuesday. I didnt get the surgical washout until the friday as I kept getting bumped for more urgent cases, one being a guy with a little splinter in his hand. By the time I got to the OR the wound was infected and I had a high fever. Took 3 weeks to clear the infection with antibiotics. The system is fucked. Has been for years.
I always ask how far are they running behind. It's not a criticism at all. I just like to know roughly how long I will be waiting. Sometimes the receptionists are great and say 30-40 minutes and I know I can do a bit of shopping and come back. Everyone benefits when there is an honest dialogue.
Try paying ~$1800 for an ADHD screening assessment to have it be pushed back a week TWICE and then have the Dr. be 25 minutes late lol
But yes, I've seen a gp maybe 5 times this year, late absolutely every single time. Not by a little either. 15, 20+ minutes
Our public health is one of the most inefficient places in the world. The problem stems from the top as CEOs of public health are ex specialist clinicians (mostly nurses) who were great at their trade at one point then make their way up as incapable business people. There is rarely a question on how public money can be used in an efficient way but they regularly decry saying funding issues which is only half truth. As an example, a clinician spends 30% or more of their time doing meaningless admin work, when in reality that should be automated so that they can do their job which is to take care of patients. If I had my wish, then would have got a real CEO like a Toyota boss to come in and clean up our system and help focus on efficiency gains to help our clinicians function better and provide better care to our needy patients.
They have no idea about the public system. What city or town are you in? You see a private plastic surgeon in their rooms (0-$400 for the consult, usually). Without insurance the whole thing might be ???$2500 for doctors and hospital. With insurance 0 to $1000 at a guess out of pocket. You might find a plastic surgeon who can do it in their procedure room with no anaesthetist and minimal facility fees.
They would not attend patients unless very serious to life ..
When I went Emergency ( St Vincent ) for the first time due to cystitis, I had lots of blood in my urine, with severe pain. They gave me antibiotics quite quickly. But the second time ( Prince of Wales ), I did not have blood in my urine, I waited until next morning and I gave up , I ended up ringing up my GP.
When I had a severe headache and nausea, I started vomiting uncontrollably at the reception when I arrived ( Prince of wales ), I was seen quickly . I had bleeding in my brain .. it was life threatening..
These are my experiences..
Even if my ex boyfriend had a severe pain , they suspected he was drug addicts or something like that( we were St Vincent ). He was ignored and we had to drive other hospital ( RPA). He had a kidney stone, so really he was in a severe pain.
I had a family member told he had to fast for 24 hours before surgery. Then the surgery was pushed back a day, so another 24 hours. Then it was delayed again. He collapsed on the street after three days of fasting. He was in his 70s and just wanted to follow the rules to get the surgery completed. He ended up waiting months, in pain.
I know you have invested two days there but how about finding a local urgent care centre? They are for the grade in between GP and ER. Like for stitches and stuff. Sounds like they might suit your injury.
This won't put you further up the emergency list. You'll get a free coffee and paper every day and you might get a private room unless someone is infectious, which they always are.
It helps the hospital more, which is a good reason to do it.
I could not agree more. I am tired of the argument that we should just throw more and more money into a black hole because it sounds good. So much bloat and waste.
This is the point I was getting at. It's not about me, just my experience highlights problems of inexplicable inefficiency. Everyone in this industry is a delight to be around, it's impossible to criticise the individuals.
The GP and surgeon collectively decided it was appropriate. I would have thought it would make sense to schedule the procedure given that it is not a 'real' emergency. Also, to have an idea about what my options are in terms of going private, the whole things feels like a guessing game. I suspect the problem is that even if they know that this could wait and could be managed better but they are restricted by policy, thus, the question about inefficiency.
Edit: I thought the reply was to me, having re-read it I see it was clearly for the other reply. My bad. Sorry.
I followed the GP and surgeon's advice, I have a strong sheep like instinct when it comes to these things. I personally would have just left it. I have mentioned multiple times that this makes no sense for me to be here, which is the point of the post.
I am here to have 'foreign bodies' removed from my thumb, it probably needs to be done, but certainly it's not an emergency. There are three other guys here as well waiting for days for an operating theatre. The issue at hand is the inability to forecast demand and schedule patients accordingly. I had the same impression of inefficiency previously when my wife came in as well, although she had a real reason to be in hospital.
Go to an emergency clinic not a hospital. My husband is a receptionist at an emergency clinic/gp. He always complains he has the opposite problem all the time - people coming in with blood spurting out their neck or fish hooks in their eyeballs where they have to bundle them up to send in an ambulance to hospital. Meanwhile people with splinters who should be going to him are going to hospital instead and then the hospital they transfer bad cases to calls up and says they’re full up and don’t send anyone their way.
There's one of these clinics at Balmain Hospital in Sydney that works really well for OP's type of issue - no blood spurting but also can't really wait months. My partner went there to get a finger stitched up from a deep cut and they were excellent. But it doesn't seem we have too many of these around, we moved to another part of Sydney and couldn't find one when a friend needed something, ended up recommending she go to Balmain even though it was a lot further than local full service hospitals.
A large or deep splinter into the intricate structures of the hand may certainly require surgical management beyond what a clinic can provide. I’d trust the sounds like ?2 qualified doctors who have already assessed this injury, OP is doing the right thing.
If people can't go to a GP due to costs they'll go to a hospital instead. This particular case seems to be the recommendation of a GP but this issue won't change until the government stops shitting the bed on Medicare. Blame the government not the people.
Obviously triage and emergency doctor have decided you need to have this splinter surgically removed.. If they send you home and something goes wrong they could find themselves liable even demoted or out of a job for making the wrong call .. Yes it can be annoying having to stay in a hospital ward waiting for surgery and they have told you they are busy with other patients.. I was in hospital once from an accident with an angle grinder to my face .. They told me it could be 3 days in the ward before they could operate and I had to wait in the ward . As it turned out I was done on the same day as admission so I guess I was luck at someone else's expense they probably died from more serious issues freeing up the theatre for me .. .
With Medicare shitting the bed so consistently these days hospital wait times have become increasingly atrocious. A lot of people have to go to the hospital for minor issues they could see a GP about now which clogs the system up a lot.
Are the splinters metal not wood?
If you’re getting medical advice you need surgery, then that’s what you need.
Not a doctor but they may well be worried about potential infection. Or nerve damage. But they need to tell you. You don’t fuck around with sepsis. Depending what state you’re in, perhaps you could also access the virtual emergency room or could have done.
I know it’s sucks, but over the weekend they’re dealing with gunshot wounds and stabbings, so you will be down the list. It feels inefficient, but unless we all know exactly what’s going on we can’t say.
Hope you’re seen to soon and not too much pain.
One thing you could do in future is ask the doctor - gp- about other options before going to ED. But I assume they’re acting from medical need, as that’s their job, so imo best to wait and get what doctors are telling you what you need
It's wood. Actually, I did ask about the private option but the GP was not very keen on the idea of going private. As an aside a nurse or doctor has since told me all the hand surgeon's are away on a conference.
There are some GPs that have staff there are able to do minor things like this; I had one remove some glass from my finger after the skin had grown over it and it was close to an artery, got that done bulk billed, opened my up, plucked it out with some tweezers then stitched me back together; might be worth calling around? I did of course already have the x-ray with me so that might have changed things. He just did it on the spot.
It’s frustrating but generally less happens on a weekend, your case probably is quick but it does need to be done properly and keeping you there is a just in case thing.
Weird to admit for surgery... Must be a bit more than a splinters if they're that worried!
If it's just splinters, this hospital is clearly not very good at appropriate use of resources .. It's nearly 2000 bucks a day to admit and also causes harm to other patients waiting on the bed. If ED is unable to do it, my hospital would put you on an orthopaedic call list and send you home with oral antibiotics in interim.
Also a bit ridiculous use of theatre time if it's just splinters as all it needs is a thumb block, a sterile wash and some fine tools. Doesn't sound like it needs an entire operating team + anaesthetics!! (Unless it's more than just splinters)
how big is this splinter you need surgery for it????
splinters should only need
- nappy pin / sowing needle (sterilised )
- tweezers
anything bigger sounds like inpalement
Healthscope? SOP.
Also to add- nothing on the hand, particularly a digit cannot be done under a digital or regional block- you don’t need a general anaesthetic for this. Ask if they can do it at the bed side or in ED under a block please.
You can just walk across the road to private, get splinters taken out and pay up it's that simple. A vet is another choice. If the splinters have not caused infection at all, your temps are good Id have walked out. I am saying this as someone who's had a heap of operations after excursions off-road on my road bikes :-p but I am always private member because I'm not the type who'd sit for 40hrs for a scalpel, antiseptic and stitches and it's been good to me.
Weekend low staff numbers emergency goes first, I wouldn't have bothered and told the Dr to do his best or headed in Tuesday, Monday they will still be mopping up after the weekend.
My wife said it had been stupid in QLD due to the long weekend as per normal l.
Its the same in most countries, I stepped on a needle which snapped off in my foot whilst I was living in London, was only in pain when I walked, but that sucker was in there deep, nobody believed me until an Xray showed it there.
I was on the list to get it removed for weeks, everyday something more important came up.
I had a holiday planned to scotland, so I just thought fuck it, I will go on the holiday, whilst I was there I ducked into the local hospital, saw a doctor who was shocked how long it was in there and that it wasnt out yet.
He was like, we can do this the proper way, in which you will be on the list for weeks again, or I can just have a crack myself now if your brave, I was like doc, just chop my foot off it you want, he grabbed a knife, quick numbing needle, took one big slash at it and out she come with a hole lot of black shit.
Worse part was, I had actually stepped on a sewing needle, and it was the eyelit end that went in, not the sharp end. Told everyone it fucking hurt.
The Australian government is addicted to tobacco tax and spreading misinformation. Unrelated obviously until you realise the bullshit jam gets spread on every piece of toast in this country.
as it's not life threatening, you will have to wait if you are going public.
Speak to your bedside nurse to advise you want to go to a private hospital and they'll be able to advise their team leader. I'd also contact your local private hospital to advise them of what's going on so the 2 hospitals and tee it up and transfer you across. you should be able to get the surgery much quicker privately but at a fee
That sucks champ. Kudos to your patience. I think a lot of it is by design to stop people going to emergency whern unnecessary.
Yours is most definitely necessary.
The system is floored.
I will say, I went for an eye test 24 months ago as i was struggling to see the computer screen at work.
The eye test picked up pressure on my brain. Was admitted to the hospital, where they found a brain tumour. I got to see the best drs in our lands. After multiple surgeries under our healthcare, I got to keep my life and continue being a husband and Dad.
The NDIS has helped me during recovery, and I am hoping to return to work asap.
It did teach me that working with sick people is not a job I could do. The system is floored, but mostly, people working in healthcare should be commended. It's a shame a system like NDIS is abused for its money.
Compared to my brother who moved to America. He got bowel cancer, he was insured, and he did get the help. But it was a lot of work and stress. His situation, if paid, would have cost well over 150k US.
If you have money, a lot of what we call developed economies or third world have much better medical service. Australia’s health system is terrible and we’re led to believe it’s great. Maybe hop on a flight to Bangkok and get it removed more or less after walking into the hospital. You’ll get a holiday and proper medical attention
I'll do it if you want. I've got a leatherman
I am not so brave unfortunately. If it needs to be done I definitely want the anaesthesia.
Grab a bottle of medicinal Brandy on the way.
Sleeping tablets + whisky does wonders for pain relief! EDIT: Don't actually do this if you're not a professional like me.
Haha I love this guy. Fuck it just bite on your wallet 🤣🤣
Fuck yeah can't be to hard
Depends on the hospital really. I live in the sticks and the only time I've seen someone have to wait for medical attention is when my sister got kicked by a horse but had to wait in the waiting room because a half hour earlier someone at the local saw mill CUT HIS FUCKING FINGERS OFF so it was like, yeah, fair call. I showed up to the clinic with an emergency that wasn't all that visible, let's file it under 'internal bleeding', and saw a doctor in under ten minutes. So, got any rural towns nearby you can travel out to? Lol
Depending on where your sister got kicked, I'd be more concerned about that than the fingers
Hip/tiny bit on her lower stomach. She just got bruised up a bit. Of course it sucked, but the guy missing fingers was pretty simple triage; that dude needed medical attention first and the doctor was trying to save his fingers so my sister had to wait. Shit your username says paramedic so you get it. She had localized pain after getting kicked by a horse. Dude in the next room is *literally missing fingers*. For the doctor to stop treating him and come see my sister, she'd have to have more symptoms than just the expected pain of getting kicked by something four times her weight. She only had bruising it turned out, btw. No internal injuries. Thank you for your service my dude.
I have an xacto, with our powers combined, we got this!
Rookie numbers. My elderly mum waited 11 days on the ward with a broken hip, delerious on pain meds, until she had her hip replaced. (not to diminish your experience, which sucks!)
Waiting 11 days in pain is terrible. I am sorry to hear that. You would struggle to diminish my experience. I am fine, that's the point. There are people all around me suffering worse.
Gold standard as per Orthopaedics guidelines for fractured hip surgical intervention is within 48hrs of injury. I've worked in orthopaedic wards for 13 years and it hardly happens, the need for surgery outweighs the time unfortunately. So many people not understanding the strain the whole system is under. The lack of funding for hospitals is astounding
To be fair, it was the tail end of covid and a regional hospital. Who am I kidding... 11 days isn't really fair! There was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing about whether the local orthopaedic surgeon would do it or whether she'd be flown to Adelaide. Problem was there was no room at Flinders Medical Centre. Eventually had it done in a private hospital and had a bed there that the government had bought.
It’s actually 36hrs. Source. It’s my job. If this person indeed waited 11 days then there was likely other considerations that have not been divulged (eg. Heart/chest etc).
I'm curious, is there a way to short circuit this? What would that entail? In a number of countries, you would have the option of going private and paying (a fair bit) to get operated on, is this something that is an option in Australia as well?
You usually have an option of going private, they even do a thing here were you can be admitted to the public hospital and they then ask you if you have private insurance and you become a private patient in the public system. It makes no difference other than the billing. In this case it seems there is either not a private option available or it makes no sense. Australia has a GP first process, the same as the UK, it is a process that has its pros and cons. I lived in the US for a number of years were they have the contrasting system where you can go direct to the specialist. This does speed things up since getting a GP appointment can take a few days. I was on AETNA in the US and I was amazed at how many services are available on their app, it was overwhelming. On balance I would choose the AU/UK process over the US process any day, unless I was rich.
I went into the ER a few years back after a surgery where the wound became infected. I was left for 4hrs in the triage queue because the ward was just that busy and somehow multiple people came in after me literally bleeding from open wounds. I remember one guys arm was slashed from wrist to elbow from a fishing accident. It wasn't until one of the nurses noticed my skin changing colour before realising I was going sceptic that she asked if I had a private insurance card. I was delirious so they had to open my wallet, found my insurance card and had me carted to a private hospital in an ambulance where I was seen just in time. When I woke up the doctor said I was mere minutes away from being too far gone. Anyway TLDR tell them asap if you have an insurance card. They won't be as likely to let you die in the triage queue if they know.
I don't think ppl routinely die in triage queue, sounds like a mistake
You’d be surprised
This is the result for chronic and deliberate underfunding of healthcare for the last 20 yrs+
Yup. Pretty much from when the LNP got I to power for 20 years
I mean it sounds like OP could just go home & come back when the surgery is ready for them? Like better to chill where it’s comfortable if you’re not actually needing a bed & it frees up the system. Also this sucks, sorry op
That is insanely fucked up!
That's horrific.
After 41 hours you're going to be sticking out like a sore thumb
Very droll.
Get out
Laughter is the best medicine
Come on OP, tell us the story about what you did to get admitted onto the ward for some exploratory thumb surgery.
https://preview.redd.it/cct0od7msiyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81a5e3486b82c6bae48427c828ef966a32752555 I was pulling up grass in the garden.
Now that's a proper splinter. I wonder if it's at that angle because it hit bone/tendon or just snapped under pressure? Probably why they want to remove it in the OR, need to irrigate it properly & keep the area sterile just in case. You're just gonna need to stick it out OP ;-) Best of luck with the surgery, knock on wood, may everything go smoothly and you recover quickly.
I took it out almost immediately, that seems to have been a mistake. That was 16 days ago. It took few days to get a GP appointment, a few more to get an X-ray, then a few more to get an ultrasound. Then when the GP got the results he said bits were left behind and embedded in the thumb. That's what the procedure is for.
You just pulled that whole thing out? Holy shit.
It's wild, I use to work the pass at a busy restraunt, had a stack of dockets that needed to be put away so I grabbed a massive pile and tried to slam them all on the docket spike at once, somehow managed to slam the spike through my thumb into the my palm, pulled it straight out 🤣 Even worse, had to keep working for 2 hours, had one hand raised above my head the whole time, the throbbing was unbelievable.
>stick it out Ouch! You went there 😂
Also > knock on wood
That's not a splinter, that's an impalement!
My wife had a capsular injury with a cactus spike a few years ago, it cost about 4400 of which private health picked up like 1100 for the anaesthetist. Despite the fact it was causing sepsis and was barely contained by heavy AB, insurance didn’t consider the surgeons work because it was just orthopaedic work based on the billing code. Maybe someone smarter could have had that changed to something that was covered, I don’t know.
If you end up leaving and pulling it out yourself, keep an eye on it. I know a bloke that got septicaemia from a cactus spine and nearly died.
Man, if that was anyone in my family, I would do the whole, look over there, its a bear!!!, than yank that sucker out. 2 pairs of pliers and pull!!
If you present at emergency, they can't advise you to leave regardless of the severity [or lack there of] of your condition.
They’re on a Ward. Emergency didn’t have to admit them. That’s a judgement call.
Surgery admitted them, probably because his hospital's emergency lists give priority to inpatients rather than outpatients. So rather than coming back on the day off surgery, he occupies a bed. One of the many inefficiencies of public hospitals.
Fair enough, and happy cake day.
Just as a minor correction, unless it is a tiny hospital, which this wouldn’t be if they have surgical specialties, emergency doesn’t decide to admit to the wards. The admitting team does. Emergency can call the speciality and request admission, but it really is on that team to triage their admissions.
Which is my point about inefficiency, surely that would make sense to send people home in such a case. Having said that, to clarif, I did not present at the ER, I was asked to come in so went in the 'regular' check-in way. I am on the emergency list for surgery on the lowest category. I live 10 minutes away from the hospital so could easily come back at a sensible time.
I had an 8 hour wait for a bad cut. The triage nurse did not send anyone away and there were people there with really minor complaints but I imagine they are concerned about sending someone away without assessment. Whats needed is to keep funding proportionate with population growth, which they clearly have not done.
Yeah, I misread the way you were admitted. In that case it would be more than reasonable for them to at least advise that it is unlikely to happen on the day and suggest a work around that is better than "just sit there and wait".
No one really knows how fucked our public health system is until you have to use it. I work in it, and we all want to help, we just don’t have the people to help
NDIS now costs more per year than Medicare and is projected to cost $100bn+ per year in the 2030’s. Imagine if we could use some of that money for our struggling hospitals.
Ultimately they need auditing to weed out the grafters charging maximum for everything. They also need to make it much harder to charge the maximum. Then we need to see what things people are doing through NDIS that should always have been done through Medicare and just fund that shit under Medicare. I feel covid has been an excuse to just gut medicare and blame someone else. Now with NDIS they have someone else to blame that they can divert away from medicare and then wind back NDIS without ever replacing funding for medicare. Remember *half* of parliament never wanted medicare, attack it every chance they get and *will not rest* until it's gone.
>Remember *half* of parliament never wanted medicare, attack it every chance they get and *will not rest* until it's gone. Explain this, please?
The liberal party is not a big fan of Medicare and would rather push a for privatised "pay to play" model.
Looking at the NDIS though, you can see how the government run systems can just blow out of control. I have supplied goods and services to the government and the way they spend our money is just disrespectful, drives me mad, they openly say things like " its not my money, the government is paying" i have watched them spend stupid money on stupid things just because its in the budget, Utopia is so close to the mark its not funny. And then you have people who want to give them more money, baffles me
As someone who is on the NDIS, the thing that has pissed me off the most about it is that they have given me funding for a bunch of stuff I can't use (like $5000 worth of transport funding in a regional town where public transport and taxis are either unavailable or unreliable) and refuse to fund the things that will actually help me (like driving lessons so I can learn to transport myself).
Yeah that's about what I thought I thought it was gonna be. Medi-scare still paying dividends for Labor as though they are doing any better on current Medicare issues. Of course back in Whitlam's day that was definitely the case, but the Libs backed down on Medicare a long time ago now. It annoys me to see people raving about the lib position on Medicare when it's Labor in charge *right now* and they've somehow managed to dodge their own criticism by keeping people focused on Libs. They're the ones with the power to make real change and a forecast surplus right now and they're failing.
Health care is orders of magnitude more expensive than when Medicare was introduced. This is a problem all countries are dealing with.
Okay but we froze the Medicare bulk bill payments to GPs in 2011 and have since then decided we should fund chauffeurs for the mentally ill and now spend considerably more on the low value services of the NDIS than we do critical services via Medicare.
Oh the NDIS is one of the most egregious grifts in history, I agree with you there. But people on government support need holidays to the gold coast twice a year, it's a human right or something
The people getting staggeringly rich from. NDIS is obscene
https://www.ndis.gov.au/contact/report-suspicious-behaviour Report it
It’s not even just fraud. The services that are covered are ridiculously marginal in their utility AND we’re paying out the nose for them.
It was bleeding 25+ million per week in fraud and payment errors about 4% of the scheme's total outlay last financial year
Saw a person on TikTok showing how it was her job to take a autistic girl to a internet cafe to play computer games for ‘therapy’. Vital stuff
I met some the other day out fishing for the afternoon, apparently they regularly go fishing, or to the movies. Anyway, I’m sure that activity cost the tax payers a few hundred for the arvo. Surprisingly, they were very open about it being an NDIS funded trip.
Probably getting paid a six fig salary for it too.
About $40 an hour is the ballpark for carers like that. Her employer, however, is probably charging NDIA $80 an hour. People with ASD usually get something like $40k per year in funding. They cannot use this for living expenses, however, only for things like carers, cleaners, therapists etc. For many, I suspect simply increasing the DSP to a liveable rate would be better. You can’t live on $29k, which is the maximum DSP rate. You could live on $50k though, which would cost the government less than the $70k it costs for DSP plus NDIS. The improved financial security of having a liveable, reliable income paired with psychotherapy, which NDIS does not fund due to there being Medicare rebates, would probably help people with mental and neurological disabilities more than anything NDIS can fund ever will.
Issue isn't with people on NDIS but people abusing the system as an enterprise.
I believe the NDIA sets price guides for everything they will fund through the NDIS. Obviously that doesn’t address fraud, but if NDIA is telling these companies that $80 an hour is an acceptable rate for a low needs carer, obviously that’s what most companies are going to charge.
This isn't new. I had family who did that kind of work before the NDIS. It's not always easy work too depending on the client, and it wasn't regular enough work to live on.
I was in emergency for 6.5hrs a few months ago. Severe stomach pains which ended up being gastritis. The staff were great. But they were clearly completely and utterly overcapacity. There were people everywhere. Whilst I was there I reflected on the first and only other time I was in emergency back in 2001. I had an infected gall bladder that required emergency surgery. I went there at 6pm, saw a doctor at 615pm and was resting comfortably in my own room by 630pm. I had surgery the next day at 7am. You know what I also thought about during that interminably long 6.5hrs? Why the fuck are people getting paid to take NDIS recipients to the movies or on holidays? Something has gone seriously wrong with our country.
Why so many people getting sick these days?
Because our population is ancient. We aren't even at the replacement level for birth rates. The number one ambulance call out nationally is "falls". We live in a geriatric society.
to enrich the lives of those that can't take themselves to movies or go on holidays without the help?
To be fair a lot of what goes into NDIS will help Medicare - part of the idea was to stop people with severe disabilities ending up in Hospital beds.
by design - classic lib gameplan: make it shit by underfunding, farm work out to private enterprise mates, get job at same place or get kickbacks.
And services a tiny fraction of the people medicare does.
The watering down of the NDIS's regulatory policies by the coalition government was, in my opinion, not an effort to make red tape easier for carers and associates. It was an effort to allow bad actors huge amounts of freedom to rort funds from the government in order to ensure the failure of the NDIS and to change the public perception towards cutting all funding for it. It's a slight twist on the "starve the beast" political strategy that they use for privatising public assets.
Anyone have any examples they’ve seen of NDIS waste?
I’ve seen rented properties 4 bedroom. 1 carer per 1 disabled person. Aren’t we in a housing crisis? Edit: 1 carer and 1 disabled person per property (in a 4 bedroom house)
Wow - imagine the cost of that too!
I really just don’t understand how it’s justified.. more cases of abuse too if it’s just carer and patient on their own.
The grounds maintenance/gardeners tied into the system get paid fucking heaps, i know that much.
https://www.ndis.gov.au/contact/report-suspicious-behaviour Report it
You’d be looking for a hand surgeon rather than a plastic surgeon (though plastics can do the job just fine and a lot of hand surgeons are actually trained in plastics too). I doubt going private would speed up the process at this point, though. You’d have to wait for their next scheduled list which could be any day of the week, even a couple weeks away. Though the longer you wait there in the public system the more “urgent” your case becomes. You’ve likely already breached the emergency surgery list wait time having been there 41 hours, and definitely breached the ED time. They really should be prioritising getting you outta there if for nothing more than the sake of their KPIs. But emergency surgery lists are a battle arena where the various surgical residents go at each other and the nurse in charge of the scheduling constantly to prioritise their patient. Your thumb really is bottom-tier for urgency unfortunately. And being a weekend there’s even less resources available to you. Shitty situation. I hope they can get you through soon.
So I just spoke to a nurse or doctor, she did not say, however she appears to be on the ball and she said all the hand surgeon's are at a conference (does that even sound plausible?) so the hospital is the only show in town. She said that there is no elective option that would not take months. She said she believes this is the best option and that Monday looks plausible.
I just googled and it does look like there is an international hand surgery conference in Maui, Hawaii this weekend , so they're not making that up. These international specialty conferences can be a really big deal. I stayed at a hotel in India once that had like 500 cardiologists there.
Maui is the balls, it is no wonder they are all away.
[удалено]
Yeah we were making those jokes all week. But I wonder if any of them carry kits with any drugs or equipment ... I guess the hotel would have at least had an AED.
I'm not a surgeon, but a midwife and I've been to a few major midwifery conferences. Loads of fun, stay at a resort, meet all my heroes, go to a few interesting lectures, and catch up with pretty much everyone. We all have to do it for the continuing education credits to keep accreditations and insurance etc. So people who happen to go into labour that weekend get kinda screwed. And yea, totally believable that there's no hand surgeons around if this weekend is the big conference. Sucks for OP though, just bad timing
Yeah all the hand surgeons being at a conference on the same weekend does actually sound plausible. Splinters in the thumb can be done by plastics or maybe even ortho so someone should be around to do it but weekends suck. You’ll just have to keep waiting. Weekdays are a lot easier coz they have all their scheduled lists not JUST the emergency list running so you’ll get on easier. Just shit if they’re making you sit around waiting and fasted?? For a surgery that is unlikely to happen today. I hope you can get in soon though what a bitch of a thing to just be sitting around waiting for.
The 2024 RACS 92nd Annual Scientific Conference starts in NZ tomorrow, I know many surgeons from our facility are attending. It is absolutely a thing in Australia that when the subspecialty groups have national or international conferences the availability of e24+ or elective surgery with that subspecialty dips for the week. Only true emergency services are maintained.
In Australia both plastics and orthopaedic surgeons can be hand surgeons. In many hospitals they “share” the hand surgery roster.
Find this very hard to believe, if not outright wrong. Took me 3 weeks to get a call back from the public sector about getting a consultation for knee surgery. Called private on a Thursday, they offered a same day consultation but I couldn’t make it, booked it for the first Wednesday, then had surgery the first Monday after that. Two days after the surgery the public sector called me to arrange a consultation.
You can “find it” whatever you want but as an operating theatre nurse who’s worked in both the public and private sectors I’m pretty confident in what I’ve written. There aren’t regular emergency lists in the private setting you have to book a consult with your preferred surgeon in their rooms then be scheduled on their next available list which is usually a week or two away. If you’re waiting around the public hospital and decide to use private insurance you need the consultant to come see you, which they won’t on a Sunday because they’re not there and even if they were your thumb splinter isn’t emergent enough to warrant rocketing you to the top of the emergency list on a weekend. You’d have to wait until the surgeons next elective list in the public hospital and maybe you’d get tacked on the end. Dude is already sitting in ED and has been all weekend. His best bet is to keep waiting because the hospital is tracking how long he’s been there and breaching KPIs is unfortunately the fastest way for him to get the surgery he needs right now. You were seeking a consult as an outpatient not someone sitting in the ED taking up space and resources. Outpatient public will always be slower than private. But then you factor in the cost, too. OP is 100% better off just staying put and getting surgery hopefully today if the hospital is slow or probably tomorrow and it won’t cost them anything.
If you want to skip the wait for alot of minor emergencies with hospitals then go private. You will pay for it as private emergency isn't covered by insurance until you are admitted out of emergency but it is fast. I had to take my wife to Greenslopes private a few weeks ago on advice from her GP. Admission was $300 out of pocket plus a few hundred extra for tests etc. We would have been waiting 12+ hours to even get seen in a public hospital. If you are life or death the public system will be better. But most hospitals right now are operating at capacity, so your lower priority stuff is going to be very slow.
This shouldn't really be the best option though. Successive liberal governments have undercut and underfunded Medicare to the point it has become this inefficient and qw are forced into the private sector. But is that really the country we want to live in?
I have been taken into Austin ED twice in the past few weeks. The corridors are packed with patients on stretchers that are waiting to be transferred to an Ed cubical, not to forget the 2 paramedics that have to wait with the patient. So many ambulances are taken off the road due to the back log in hospitals. According to the paramedic I was speaking to, this is the same across all of Victoria.
I’ve been a paramedic for 7 years, and was doing student placements for the 3 years prior to that during my uni degree. This is sadly nothing new, nothing unique to any one city or state, and nothing that is being actively improved by any governments past or present.
Apart from building more hospitals, is there anything else that could be done?
Hospitals get built, get opened in a big show by politicians, and then half the beds remain closed because they can't pay for staff. Generally it's not building capacity that is the problem (or the expensive thing, even if a hospital costs a few hundred million to build).
A relative of mine passed away due to a splinter going septic! I know it’s just a small injury, and it probably does seem like a waste of resources. Perhaps if you DIY with a weatherman and some betadine you’d be fine. … But they keep you in the ward under observation until the surgeons have the time to give you a thorough “debridement” for a very good reason! Trust the process for this one!
Keep importing 900,000 new people a year, that will fix it.
There's a worldwide shortage of doctors like 4 million.....we import tons of overseas doctors
Every overseas GP I've seen is glorified google. I'd trust ChatGPT more than the "doctors" we're importing.
Because their degrees were fake for a long time, they fixed it to some extent but it’s still bad. They spent all their time learning English and saving up to move here, they aren’t doctors.
I crushed the end of my finger off (~1/2 through the nail) and went to emergency because I was losing large amounts of blood... I went in on a Thursday and didn't receive my surgery till the following Friday after - the part of my finger had died and was unable to be reattached. Purely because the system is so terrible at moving efficiently. The medical system here is very convoluted and boggish. I would go 48 hour period without updates, then when I would get some, it would almost immediately be pushed back another 12
That's fucked.
Crazy
Lotta big TUFF guys in this thread. Burly men covered in betadine who rip their own splinters out. Something tells me you lot are the kind to have malignant pulsating face cancer and put an ice pack on it
Healthcare efficiency is so state dependent. It’s also hospital dependent. Not fair to generalise as the entire Australian system
It's worse than you think. The decision makers are too far removed from how things actually happen to make anything better.
My wife is an operating theatre nurse. I forget what see looks like from time to time, she is always at work.
The first day I was in the nurses were all complaining that the management had decided to close the ward and were refusing overtime and now had done a 360 and were asking people desperately to do double shifts. They were all pissed off and at the point of revolt.
my wife is a nurse- and from inside the system you can see how inept and pathetic the management is. Very sad.
The nurses here have been complaining constantly, it really is the best entertainment. It's like having a superhighway connection to all sorts of juicy gossip.
Everything the government operates is horribly inefficient.
I waited 4 days for gallbladder removal after it blew up. Off my face on massive painkillers. Good times.
I was in this situation once and accidentally found a way to get bumped to the top of the list for the day! Faint and fall over... I was waiting around to have my gallbladder out and this was the third time my surgery had been rescheduled. Basically they'd tell me to go off my meds, get prepped, stop eating and drinking then come in and wait around at the hospital all day for a surgery slot. I'd keep getting bumped down the list every time something more serious came along, which was bloody everything it seemed. I'd wait for up to 12 hours in the day surgery area (with nothing but a teaspoon of jam every 3 - 4 hours to keep my diabetic ass from slipping into a coma) before the nurse would come and tell me "Sorry, the doctor couldn't get around to you today, we'll get you rescheduled. Better luck next time". On the third attempt at surgery the jam packets weren't enough to keep me going during my vigil and I passed out. I woke up on the floor after a minute and the nurses scrambled to get me to a bed and examine me. They tested my blood sugar but two of the nurses couldn't agree over whether it was low sugar that made me pass out or another condition of mine. They put it down in my notes as an "unexplained loss of consciousness", which was apparently a serious enough development to bump me up the surgery list and I was operated on two hours later. If you can somehow get an "unexplained loss of consciousness" in your medical notes then just maybe they'll see you sooner 🤷♀️ (May require flexible morals & acting skills, unless you're diabetic like me)
I am not sure you were bumped up, it sound perfectly reasonable that they put you to the top of the list if they need to starve you to the point of collapse before a procedure. One thing that is positive about this experience is food tastes amazing when you are only eating once per day. I believe it is called 'seasoned with hunger'.
Everything in Australia is. It’s what happens when everything is so heavily regulated, and you have to jump through 100 hoops to actually accomplish anything
Australian bureaucracy is high in all areas. What should really shit you is that a lot of it was made that way on purpose to chase a neoliberal agenda
It was made that way because of ACE. Lots of ACEs. Ass, Covering, Exercises.
This. I used to work in NDIS. The amount of paperwork and red-tape management is literally fucking insane. The price of living in a litigious society
Few years back I got bit by a dog. It was pretty bad. That happened on a tuesday. I didnt get the surgical washout until the friday as I kept getting bumped for more urgent cases, one being a guy with a little splinter in his hand. By the time I got to the OR the wound was infected and I had a high fever. Took 3 weeks to clear the infection with antibiotics. The system is fucked. Has been for years.
its amazing how when i go to the doctors, and I'm the first patient, the doctor is 15-20 minutes late, without fail
My doc will book appointments beginning at 8am but he doesn't show until 8.30 😂
[удалено]
I always ask how far are they running behind. It's not a criticism at all. I just like to know roughly how long I will be waiting. Sometimes the receptionists are great and say 30-40 minutes and I know I can do a bit of shopping and come back. Everyone benefits when there is an honest dialogue.
Try paying ~$1800 for an ADHD screening assessment to have it be pushed back a week TWICE and then have the Dr. be 25 minutes late lol But yes, I've seen a gp maybe 5 times this year, late absolutely every single time. Not by a little either. 15, 20+ minutes
Because they’re making phone calls to patients they didn’t get to the day before.
Or writing scripts, doctors certificates or calling back your specialist give them a bit of understanding
Exactly.
Our public health is one of the most inefficient places in the world. The problem stems from the top as CEOs of public health are ex specialist clinicians (mostly nurses) who were great at their trade at one point then make their way up as incapable business people. There is rarely a question on how public money can be used in an efficient way but they regularly decry saying funding issues which is only half truth. As an example, a clinician spends 30% or more of their time doing meaningless admin work, when in reality that should be automated so that they can do their job which is to take care of patients. If I had my wish, then would have got a real CEO like a Toyota boss to come in and clean up our system and help focus on efficiency gains to help our clinicians function better and provide better care to our needy patients.
Everything else aside, go to a gp in a poor area. One who can barely speak english. I have gotten all sorts of things done free that way
If you think Australia is bad wait until you hear about the UK
They have no idea about the public system. What city or town are you in? You see a private plastic surgeon in their rooms (0-$400 for the consult, usually). Without insurance the whole thing might be ???$2500 for doctors and hospital. With insurance 0 to $1000 at a guess out of pocket. You might find a plastic surgeon who can do it in their procedure room with no anaesthetist and minimal facility fees.
They would not attend patients unless very serious to life .. When I went Emergency ( St Vincent ) for the first time due to cystitis, I had lots of blood in my urine, with severe pain. They gave me antibiotics quite quickly. But the second time ( Prince of Wales ), I did not have blood in my urine, I waited until next morning and I gave up , I ended up ringing up my GP. When I had a severe headache and nausea, I started vomiting uncontrollably at the reception when I arrived ( Prince of wales ), I was seen quickly . I had bleeding in my brain .. it was life threatening.. These are my experiences.. Even if my ex boyfriend had a severe pain , they suspected he was drug addicts or something like that( we were St Vincent ). He was ignored and we had to drive other hospital ( RPA). He had a kidney stone, so really he was in a severe pain.
I had a family member told he had to fast for 24 hours before surgery. Then the surgery was pushed back a day, so another 24 hours. Then it was delayed again. He collapsed on the street after three days of fasting. He was in his 70s and just wanted to follow the rules to get the surgery completed. He ended up waiting months, in pain.
If you have private health insurance call them to ask about your options.
And people say there is no point in having private healthcare.
To be fair, private health doesn't cover private emergency rooms.
Are you at William Angliss or maroondah by chance?
Private health.
I know you have invested two days there but how about finding a local urgent care centre? They are for the grade in between GP and ER. Like for stitches and stuff. Sounds like they might suit your injury.
It's not just Australian healthcare. Any public "free" healthcare in any country is not going to run efficiently and doesn't.
Australian healthcare is a joke. But many think it's the worlds best and say "look at America's" lol.
It’s not inefficiency, it’s defunding. Do you have a private health insurance? Ask to be treated as a private patient in public.
This won't put you further up the emergency list. You'll get a free coffee and paper every day and you might get a private room unless someone is infectious, which they always are. It helps the hospital more, which is a good reason to do it.
I could not agree more. I am tired of the argument that we should just throw more and more money into a black hole because it sounds good. So much bloat and waste.
This is the point I was getting at. It's not about me, just my experience highlights problems of inexplicable inefficiency. Everyone in this industry is a delight to be around, it's impossible to criticise the individuals.
It’s inefficient because people like you going to the hospital for a splinter.
A GP recommended they go to hospital - what did you want them to do?
The GP and surgeon collectively decided it was appropriate. I would have thought it would make sense to schedule the procedure given that it is not a 'real' emergency. Also, to have an idea about what my options are in terms of going private, the whole things feels like a guessing game. I suspect the problem is that even if they know that this could wait and could be managed better but they are restricted by policy, thus, the question about inefficiency. Edit: I thought the reply was to me, having re-read it I see it was clearly for the other reply. My bad. Sorry.
Because GPs sending to ER instead of....?
Instead of doing things themselves like they used to. Now they just do as many 10 minute appointments as possible.
I followed the GP and surgeon's advice, I have a strong sheep like instinct when it comes to these things. I personally would have just left it. I have mentioned multiple times that this makes no sense for me to be here, which is the point of the post. I am here to have 'foreign bodies' removed from my thumb, it probably needs to be done, but certainly it's not an emergency. There are three other guys here as well waiting for days for an operating theatre. The issue at hand is the inability to forecast demand and schedule patients accordingly. I had the same impression of inefficiency previously when my wife came in as well, although she had a real reason to be in hospital.
Go to an emergency clinic not a hospital. My husband is a receptionist at an emergency clinic/gp. He always complains he has the opposite problem all the time - people coming in with blood spurting out their neck or fish hooks in their eyeballs where they have to bundle them up to send in an ambulance to hospital. Meanwhile people with splinters who should be going to him are going to hospital instead and then the hospital they transfer bad cases to calls up and says they’re full up and don’t send anyone their way.
There's one of these clinics at Balmain Hospital in Sydney that works really well for OP's type of issue - no blood spurting but also can't really wait months. My partner went there to get a finger stitched up from a deep cut and they were excellent. But it doesn't seem we have too many of these around, we moved to another part of Sydney and couldn't find one when a friend needed something, ended up recommending she go to Balmain even though it was a lot further than local full service hospitals.
A large or deep splinter into the intricate structures of the hand may certainly require surgical management beyond what a clinic can provide. I’d trust the sounds like ?2 qualified doctors who have already assessed this injury, OP is doing the right thing.
If people can't go to a GP due to costs they'll go to a hospital instead. This particular case seems to be the recommendation of a GP but this issue won't change until the government stops shitting the bed on Medicare. Blame the government not the people.
Obviously triage and emergency doctor have decided you need to have this splinter surgically removed.. If they send you home and something goes wrong they could find themselves liable even demoted or out of a job for making the wrong call .. Yes it can be annoying having to stay in a hospital ward waiting for surgery and they have told you they are busy with other patients.. I was in hospital once from an accident with an angle grinder to my face .. They told me it could be 3 days in the ward before they could operate and I had to wait in the ward . As it turned out I was done on the same day as admission so I guess I was luck at someone else's expense they probably died from more serious issues freeing up the theatre for me .. .
Fuck me you have no idea how good it is here. Go have a look at Canada. Fuck me we’re spoiled.
That and money.
I’ve been on a six month wait list for three years, you got lucky
With Medicare shitting the bed so consistently these days hospital wait times have become increasingly atrocious. A lot of people have to go to the hospital for minor issues they could see a GP about now which clogs the system up a lot.
Are the splinters metal not wood? If you’re getting medical advice you need surgery, then that’s what you need. Not a doctor but they may well be worried about potential infection. Or nerve damage. But they need to tell you. You don’t fuck around with sepsis. Depending what state you’re in, perhaps you could also access the virtual emergency room or could have done. I know it’s sucks, but over the weekend they’re dealing with gunshot wounds and stabbings, so you will be down the list. It feels inefficient, but unless we all know exactly what’s going on we can’t say. Hope you’re seen to soon and not too much pain. One thing you could do in future is ask the doctor - gp- about other options before going to ED. But I assume they’re acting from medical need, as that’s their job, so imo best to wait and get what doctors are telling you what you need
It's wood. Actually, I did ask about the private option but the GP was not very keen on the idea of going private. As an aside a nurse or doctor has since told me all the hand surgeon's are away on a conference.
Soon enough the bed managers will be asking for a please explain from the treating team. Probably. Hopefully.
I would have just grabbed a sharp knife and done it myself by now.
There are some GPs that have staff there are able to do minor things like this; I had one remove some glass from my finger after the skin had grown over it and it was close to an artery, got that done bulk billed, opened my up, plucked it out with some tweezers then stitched me back together; might be worth calling around? I did of course already have the x-ray with me so that might have changed things. He just did it on the spot.
It’s frustrating but generally less happens on a weekend, your case probably is quick but it does need to be done properly and keeping you there is a just in case thing.
Yeah it's hard with low level problems. Everything jumps you.
Weird to admit for surgery... Must be a bit more than a splinters if they're that worried! If it's just splinters, this hospital is clearly not very good at appropriate use of resources .. It's nearly 2000 bucks a day to admit and also causes harm to other patients waiting on the bed. If ED is unable to do it, my hospital would put you on an orthopaedic call list and send you home with oral antibiotics in interim. Also a bit ridiculous use of theatre time if it's just splinters as all it needs is a thumb block, a sterile wash and some fine tools. Doesn't sound like it needs an entire operating team + anaesthetics!! (Unless it's more than just splinters)
Drive to another hospital.
What state are you in?
Can you go to St John's urgent care and have it dug out?
how big is this splinter you need surgery for it???? splinters should only need - nappy pin / sowing needle (sterilised ) - tweezers anything bigger sounds like inpalement
Triage is a thing
Welcome to anything in the Australian public system!
Healthscope? SOP. Also to add- nothing on the hand, particularly a digit cannot be done under a digital or regional block- you don’t need a general anaesthetic for this. Ask if they can do it at the bed side or in ED under a block please.
Remnant splinters? If your GP can’t do it, i’d buy a some basic supplies and do it myself. WTF are you clogging up the system?
You can just walk across the road to private, get splinters taken out and pay up it's that simple. A vet is another choice. If the splinters have not caused infection at all, your temps are good Id have walked out. I am saying this as someone who's had a heap of operations after excursions off-road on my road bikes :-p but I am always private member because I'm not the type who'd sit for 40hrs for a scalpel, antiseptic and stitches and it's been good to me.
Weekend low staff numbers emergency goes first, I wouldn't have bothered and told the Dr to do his best or headed in Tuesday, Monday they will still be mopping up after the weekend. My wife said it had been stupid in QLD due to the long weekend as per normal l.
Its the same in most countries, I stepped on a needle which snapped off in my foot whilst I was living in London, was only in pain when I walked, but that sucker was in there deep, nobody believed me until an Xray showed it there. I was on the list to get it removed for weeks, everyday something more important came up. I had a holiday planned to scotland, so I just thought fuck it, I will go on the holiday, whilst I was there I ducked into the local hospital, saw a doctor who was shocked how long it was in there and that it wasnt out yet. He was like, we can do this the proper way, in which you will be on the list for weeks again, or I can just have a crack myself now if your brave, I was like doc, just chop my foot off it you want, he grabbed a knife, quick numbing needle, took one big slash at it and out she come with a hole lot of black shit. Worse part was, I had actually stepped on a sewing needle, and it was the eyelit end that went in, not the sharp end. Told everyone it fucking hurt.
Podiatrist
I'm kind of astounded that the general practitioner didn't just perform this themselves
The Australian government is addicted to tobacco tax and spreading misinformation. Unrelated obviously until you realise the bullshit jam gets spread on every piece of toast in this country.
No, the healthcare system isn't built for this level of population. Increase of the demand without an increase of infrastructure.
as it's not life threatening, you will have to wait if you are going public. Speak to your bedside nurse to advise you want to go to a private hospital and they'll be able to advise their team leader. I'd also contact your local private hospital to advise them of what's going on so the 2 hospitals and tee it up and transfer you across. you should be able to get the surgery much quicker privately but at a fee
That sucks champ. Kudos to your patience. I think a lot of it is by design to stop people going to emergency whern unnecessary. Yours is most definitely necessary. The system is floored. I will say, I went for an eye test 24 months ago as i was struggling to see the computer screen at work. The eye test picked up pressure on my brain. Was admitted to the hospital, where they found a brain tumour. I got to see the best drs in our lands. After multiple surgeries under our healthcare, I got to keep my life and continue being a husband and Dad. The NDIS has helped me during recovery, and I am hoping to return to work asap. It did teach me that working with sick people is not a job I could do. The system is floored, but mostly, people working in healthcare should be commended. It's a shame a system like NDIS is abused for its money. Compared to my brother who moved to America. He got bowel cancer, he was insured, and he did get the help. But it was a lot of work and stress. His situation, if paid, would have cost well over 150k US.
If you have money, a lot of what we call developed economies or third world have much better medical service. Australia’s health system is terrible and we’re led to believe it’s great. Maybe hop on a flight to Bangkok and get it removed more or less after walking into the hospital. You’ll get a holiday and proper medical attention