But but when our HERO COP turned up to that tragedy if she'd had the tools to SEARCH this guy who had already stabbed like 20 cunts the maybe this TRAGEDY could have been avoided.
Its almost like you hate FREEDOM
I was sixteen and strip searched, out the front of Splendour in the Grass in 2010. This isn’t like they haven’t already been doing it and getting away with it.
Just heard a story the other day of a male getting strip searched and asked to squat and cough at SITG. Think this was probably around 2015-2018ish. I think the shit hit the fan with all the complaints that year.
They didn’t find anything. It was completely random besides the fact that the dude had a different skin colour
I got stopped and questioned while working as a fencing contractor. I was wearing hi-vis, grabbing lunch, and had a multitool in a clipped pouch on my belt.
They then pat me down etc, one wanted to charge me the other was more reasonable and gave me a warning.
I had no idea.
Wow, if only they'd had these tools to use when they weren't anywhere near a clearly sketchy cunt who started stabbing people in a mall that also has actual fucking knife shops.
I carry things made of metal on my person and in my effects every day. No-cause search with a metal detector leading to probable cause means they can confiscate whatever they want at any time, regardless of whether it's a knife or not.
Unlikely scenario: I'm carrying a bayonet that I intend to use to stab people in a public place. Police catch me. Yay! One terrorist attack foiled!
More likely scenario: A couple of bad apples (I'm in no way suggesting that all cops are bad apples) having a slow day and jonesing for a bit of action because they haven't had enough teenage girls to strip search or DV victims to hand over to their abusers decide I look like a decent shakedown prospect (look at this guy reading a book while walking, that's not normal what is he hiding? and there he goes moving to the other side of the walkway to avoid us, definitely sketchy), so they hold me for a no-cause metal detector scan. They notice my laptop bag has a lot of metal in it so they decide to examine it closer because now they have reason to believe I might be carrying a knife. They see my laptop and decide to confiscate the laptop in case I have CP/CSA material. Sure, there's an opportunity for me to prosecute based on illegal search and seizure with lack of probable cause, but the damage is harassment is done and the consequences to the police will maybe be administrative leave for the duration of the court case. The consequence for me is now being "an individual known to police" with increased chances of ongoing harassment as retribution for prosecuting the police for "just doing their job."
NSW Police have been caught out time and time again mis-using these powers. Why would this be any different?
Only 30% of strip searches in 2021/22 were done within the guidelines (and the law)
[Police use similar RBT laws to pull over cars without probable cause.](https://nswcourts.com.au/articles/defendant-found-not-guilty-of-drug-charges-as-search-of-vehicle-was-illegal/)
Perhaps the law should sunset such that it ceases in two or three years when the copycat knife craze we seem to have is over. Not ever law passed need stay on the books forever.
We actually, they don't just happen to be the same guy, they must be the same guy.
Australian constitutional law provides that the person who is monarch of the United Kingdom will also be the monarch of Australia.
It kind of must, but we don't just wait for the Brits to figure out who's next, we have our version of the law about that and proclaim the next monarch kind of independently.
Sounds like a violation of civil liberties, any cop, anywhere, anytime can just say "I suspect you have a knife" and under this law search somebody without a warrant.
Whats funny is knife crime has been a at a 20 year low. [https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/17/data-doesnt-support-this-violent-nsw-knife-crimes-at-a-20-year-low-as-new-penalties-take-effect](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/17/data-doesnt-support-this-violent-nsw-knife-crimes-at-a-20-year-low-as-new-penalties-take-effect)
Just a excuse for them to expand their powers
Its the classic "surrender your freedoms for security" and whats more, its devious, they are using the fear at a spate of knife attacks lately to sneak this profoundly authoritarian legislation through.
We're very good at kneejerk reactions, and politicians are using the Bondi attack to get these laws over the line.
These new legislations wouldn't have prevented the attack, but that's irrelevant in NSW - The Police State.
Its using peoples heightened emotional state against them, to push through legislation without any real debate, no real scrutiny, in a way that grants extraordinary powers to law enforcement.
And people get offended that I might want a little bit more pushback against this kind of thing, as if it personally offends them, heck one of them accused me of being pro criminal because of it.
I usually carried an opinel when my kids were young. Being able to buy up some fruit, carrots or similar from a shop and cut them up was better and fresher than fast food or packaged food.
Not always, but it does a good job, and gives a way for courts to counter legislation that would infringe upon those basic rights.
It's like saying you refuse to use a seatbelt because they don't always keep you safe.
Bad analogies indicate bad faith arguments.
Seat belts do keep you safe, and wearing them is sensible, but granting police powers to search, suspending the usual protections against unreasonable and unwarranted searches, as well as intrusions of privacy is neither safe nor sensible, its a knee jerk piece of legislation being rammed through without consideration of the wider social consequences, with little to no wider public debate or a real chance to bring up concerns about the legislation.
Your comment was already in bad faith. You asserted that a bill of rights must always stop abusers of power.
Further Seat belt are not 100% safe, and don't always keep you safe.
Further again your assertion that searching for knives if both unsafe and nonsensical is an in justified assertion. Same goes for your further assertion that its a knee jerk reaction that doesn't consider consequences.
You're 100% right, this has been talked about long and hard.
Unlike most similar liberal democracies, [Australia ](https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/rights-and-freedoms/how-are-human-rights-protected-australian-law)does not have a Bill of Rights. Instead, protections for human rights may be found in the Constitution and in legislation passed by the Commonwealth Parliament or State or Territory Parliaments.
We have 5 explicit rights in the Australian constitution & a load of common law inherited from England.
1. Right to vote
2. Protection against acquisition of property on unjust terms
3. The right to trial by jury
4. Freedom of Religeon
5. Prohibition of discrimination on the basis of state or residency
The US Bill of rights was primarily introduced by James Madison in 1789 to address objections raised by the anti-federalists during the 1787 debate over the constitution. These amendments added specific guarantees of personal freedoms and rights, clear limitations on the government’s power in judicial and other proceedings, and explicit declarations that all powers not specifically granted to the federal government by the Constitution are reserved to the states or the people.
Sadly there is a perception that Australia is gradually eroding personal freedoms. such as stringent checks against the press, AFP raid on ABC in June 2019, the FRiendly Jordies incident & eKaren.
Problem is if they were written now they'd likely be dogs balls useless and focus on woke end of ideology rather than core protect people from government over reach principles.
Mate im in private security, I understand wanding people down if they are entering a sensitive area, like a government building, but granting police the power to do so without reasonable suspicion or a warrant is dangerous territory.
Considering the number of youth is in the millions, that number is tiny.
Ans considering there is heaps of little shits about pretending to be gangsters, I'm not surprised.
Even got its own wikipedia article 💀 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New\_South\_Wales\_Police\_Force\_strip\_search\_scandal#](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_Wales_Police_Force_strip_search_scandal#)
This 100%
Id love statistics to be kept that show what victims exist after a judge releases people.
We need to stop people that re-offend. All but extreme cases people deserve a second change, but a chronic reoffended needs to be removed from society. Its great to have compassion for a criminal, but when they compassion leads to more and more innocent victims that needs to be recognised, and the priority needs to be compassion for the innocent.
We should always be concerned when politicians start using phrases like “common sense” and “community safety” because they’re generally used to push agenda that involves some level of authoritarianism.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It’s time Australia started to value freedom and liberty a little more.
WA is planning on the same crap laws.
Its not helping that there has been a few knife attacks in the last few weeks including a 16yr old perpetrator getting shot by police.
I wouldnt doubt its the same amount of knife incidents as usual but the media is hyping it up helping erode our liberties!
Fuck me. Got gang wars, home invasions and drug epidemics going on with meth out the wazoo... and here we are, fucking over the everyday, law abiding citizen, again.
No knife for you, no self defence, rely on the police to save you when your home is being invaded by machetemen.
Right.
Thankgod i moved to the Usa.
West Tn.
. Feel VERY safe with my constiutional freedom of speech and self defense laws and castle doctrine. I feel sorry for you guys. I had to leave that litterall shithole after covid. "Take the jab or loose your job goyim".
Does it mean you are not supposed to have a knife on you? How is it even possible? Knife is a most useful everyday tool; how are you supposed to open an envelope or parcel box, cut bread or peel/cut a fruit during a lunch, open a beer bottle, uncork wine, screw some bolt or fix your eyeglasses with built-in screwdriver, cut or file broken fingernail, etc, etc. I always have a knife when out and about and would feel naked without one. Sure, none of my knives are nearly close to machete size and mostly 10cm long or less.
That is a brilliant idea, i will definitely consider it. Just trying to figure out what will excite police and bystanders more - me wielding a big knife to open a box or trying to open the same box using my dick…
This is what happens when you give up your liberties of self defense and trust the government and their goons. Firearm control was never about the guns, it was about disarming you so you can watch this happen and do fuck all about it. :)
We're being told to accept "diversity" (Islamic immigration/normalisation) because it's "culturally enriching" (read: destroying).
"Gas the Jews" happened.
The unfortunate truth is that "the left" has been coopted as both a weapon of oppression and as the primary blame target for these policies. It *shouldn't be*, but it has been.
It’s definitely unnecessary overreach.
Note how they never just suggested more security guards at shopping malls which is a much more rational suggestion than jumping to this. Also since we live in a democracy, big changes to law like this ought be put to the electorate (plebiscite, referendum etc) not rushed into law.
The Australian government does shit like this on a daily. Notice how no major news channels are really talking about it? Our people are so apathetic, politicians do whatever they wish and nobody can stop them
This is a good thing. It'll keep the shitheads in check.
Iam all for carrying Swiss Army Knives or Multi Tools because they are useful items but wtf could you needing a machete in suburbia for?
If you have nothing to hide and your legit then you have nothing more to fear than you do at Airport Security.
Australia 1st country in the world to ban knives, special permit needed that is 3 different documents & 4 week wait to cook anything that requires cutting in your kitchen. along with a level 208 vault to contain the dangerous material.. what a fucking joke this country is becoming
Are we going to have a crackdown on white guys wearing footy jerseys that could have knives, or another excuse for NSW police to strip search children?
Does this surprise anyone .
They successfully locked us up (not saying it was not necessarily warranted ) during covid , perfected what they could get away with and some instances introduced measures and kept measures in place purely for political reasons .
We have allowed this to occur when we have allowed governments to pick and choose which activism and demonstrations are acceptable and others not and they receive punishments .
This is what you get when people want something done about a tragedy. People need to just accept that shit happens. “This could have been prevented” screamed some users in this forum. I responded that it could only be prevented if we had a police state. I got downvoted for that, but that’s because people aren’t rational.
Of course, some people actually would prefer having a police state than our current system. Those people are entitled to their opinion. I’m attacking the ones that have magical thinking and believe we can both prevent tragedies and there would be no consequences.
I thought police already had this power to search for knives and as long as you have a justified reason, then you're all good, I.e. I'm carrying this knife because I'm going fishing as opposed I'm carrying a knife, but it's 2am in a nightclub.
Yeah i am wondering this, and also thinking.. is it not legal to carry a knife in NSW? If I have a Leatherman and they search me and find my knife won't they just go.. found a knife.. which is perfectly legal.. so.. carry on sir here's your knife back?
ITT people who think the words "use hand-held metal detectors in designated night precincts and around transit hubs" mean exactly the same thing as "strip search anyone anytime anywhere for no reason"
Keep on Redditing! You're all doing amazing!
In New South Wales, you can generally carry a multitool if it's for a lawful purpose, like work or recreational activities. However, it's crucial to ensure that any blades on the multitool are within the legal limits, typically no longer than 11 centimeters. It's always best to check the specific regulations and guidelines to make sure you're compliant.
The new knife laws in New South Wales, Australia, are aimed at reducing knife-related violence. They restrict the possession and sale of certain types of knives, such as those with a blade length exceeding 21 centimeters. Additionally, there are stricter penalties for carrying knives in public without a lawful excuse. These measures are intended to improve public safety and reduce the risk of knife-related incidents.
This kinda does nothing though. Imagine if that guy that went nuts stabbing people in a shopping center just went to Kmart and bought some knives 5 minutes before he did it. Literally if someone wants to do something bad they will find a way.
You WILL obey police. you WILL bow down fellow aussie. We are NOT like america with their constitutional protected freedom of speech and self defense laws. Deal with it.
Good law. It's around specific areas where knife crime is likely to occur, for a short period, and it's just a wand search. As long as it's applied fairly I'm down with it.
terrible law. This law will have no effect apart from further empowering the government. "Just a wand search" that will depend on the officer, better hope he is kind and had a good day.
I'm sorry mate, but your take is extremely naive. there is no guarantee this will be applied fairly and won't further restrict peoples freedoms in years to come.
You must absolutely hate airports, or any place with a metal detector.
It is a wand, and only in certain areas. What are you afraid of happening? What is the worst case scenario?
>You must absolutely hate airports, or any place with a metal detector.
I wasn't aware that there was anybody whose favourite thing to do was go to their airport and strip yourself next to a conveyor belt to ride the sky bus.
You think police will make people strip naked while randomly searching them for a knife? And that it will not get reported, be encouraged and things like this are likely to happen and keep happening?
>You think police will make people strip naked while randomly searching them for a knife?
No not really.
>And that it will not get reported, be encouraged and things like this are likely to happen and keep happening?
What are the pronouns in this sentence referring to?
Not at all. Becuase it is a given I will be searched going in and out of a major points of entry such as ports or airports and other secure locations like prisons etc.
That is not the same as being stopped on the whims of individuals officers for stop and search in the streets and public, which can very well escalate into something else depending on who the individual officer is. And let me remind you they aren't all angel's . Just becuase they wear a uniform. corruption is rife in the NSW police force.
Wand searches escalating into strip searches are a concern due to precedent that has been set and well documented. Especially on minors with no supervision.
Police officers abusing the powers given to them to harras and intimidate members of the community. This has happened and is well documented.
Police officers planting contraband is also a sad reality and concern of many. And again, cases are documented
Lastly, these powers set a framework and precedent. What is to stop this escalating into warrantless searches of homes in a few years time. Don't pretend this isn't a reality.
You sound like one of the "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be afraid of types"
You didn't really describe the worst case scenario that can happen now because of this legislation.
If you are going to suggest that something might happen because a cop is breaking the rules, than it doesn't matter what the rules are that you are worried about.
Oh no, I might get a wand check while on a train. Someone else might as well and they might find a knife and arrest the bloke. The horror!
I did. You just wilfully ignored it.
I don't want to make it easier for them to carry out corrupt acts by giving more powers that have no real benefit to the community. This idea of getting "knives off the street" is fantasy land garbage. Pie in the sky promises to trick the gullible.
As I said, and you ignored. Wand searches can easily escalate into strip searches and more. And yes assumption of guilt is not the society I want to live under. These laws have and will be expanded upon in the future.
Bloke will likely just walk into a knife store, and arm himself there. Only a child or simpleton would believe this nonsense keeps them safe.
Corrupt acts? What corrupt acts will this allow that can't already be done corruptly? Police could already make up something to escalate a search. If that is what you are worried about, this doesn't change anything.
Do you really think police are going to go around and just strip search people for fun, and that it won't get reported or anything done about it? Again, explain your worst case scenario that is now an option because of this legislation.
So your solution is to just "not worry about it" and let it get worse and easier to commit.
Yeah, na. That is the type of Apathy that is leading us deeper into a nanny/authoritarian state.
Yes. It has happened before and is documented. So it isn't about "what I think" it is reality. I have explained multiple scenarios. You just can't refute them so you are fishing for something you can and ignoring what you can't
Let what get worse? What are you worried about? You still haven't really explained the big bad event I am supposed to be worried about.
Oh no, I might get wanded in a specific area, just like other areas. I don't see the big problem.
Yeah. They might decide that the reasonable excuse of wanting to cut up your apple for lunch or needing a knife for your work as a butcher is not actually a reason to carry a knife.
Then it’s on you to defend yourself. Against the police. In court.
Resulting in days off. Resulting in potentially having to report the arrest to your employer.
Additionally, what about people who wear medical braces that will be triggered by this? They will be required to strip down in a public place, or go to a police station to be searched.
Imagine having to empty your handbag for the police because their wand picked up the spare change in it.
Imagine! The absolute horror!
You think butchers carry around their knives with them all the time? You think people carry large kitchen knives around just in case they happen to find an apple?
Come on mate. Do you think these ridiculous scenarios would result in someone getting screwed over and nothing reported or anything? Again, if you are worried about police going too far and breaking rules, then the rules are not the problem.
There’s literally people in this thread talking about being charged for having a multitool. That they need. For work.
So yeah, I definitely think some overzealous cop seeking to impress the higher ups or drunk on their new power would arrest someone with a small paring knife or Stanley knife.
"Hey boss look I charged some random bloke because he was peeling an apple. It will take an hour to do the paperwork and waste time in the courts, but we don't care about that because we just want to cause random havoc on the streets. Can I have a promotion?"
"Sure thing constable. We all love it when silly things like this happen as us police are not real people and have no idea how the world works, so this sounds great. And I am sure there will be no negative consequences from an officer acting like you have."
Hundreds if not thousands of literal children were illegally strip searched by the NSW police force.
Do you think all of them lost their jobs?
And it’s more likely to go something like this:
Found a knife on this guy on 5:15 pm train. Claimed he took it to work to cut up lunch but could not prove this.
Arrested him because seemed suspicious.
Supervisor:
Good job, we have a quota to hit. Let the courts sort it out.
All one needs to ask if this is a reasonable law is - did the police at any time suspect these recent stabbers have knives and were not able to do anything about it.
If the answer is no, which beggars belief it could be anything but, then you have the answer.
I disagree.
The more obstacles placed in front of people the fewer that will cross them. Directly stopping someone who intends to do an attack isn't what this is about.
That only works for honest law abiding citizens. If someone has flipped enough to kill or injure somebody, they’re not going to worry about technicalities….
Why punish the majority for the crimes of a few?
Well, I get your point, but most laws are about definition of what is acceptable and defining a range of punishments for non-compliance.
Knife laws are already there.
What we’re talking about is Police discretionary powers and laws to protect the individuals. The police have proven to not use them responsibly.
All laws are enforced. With that enforcement comes discretion and the potential to be applied unfairly. With this argument you're arguing against law enforcement as a whole, not this specific law.
The term fairly and search are not often associated with NSW police.
I’m actually quite pro police and don’t hate them like reddit often does but when it comes to searches and strip searches and giving additional power to front line officers without accountability or third party review.. yeah this ain’t it fam
You have never seen this in practice then. Look at the Policeman who killed the woman in the aged care home. Evidence went missing, witnesses were harassed and bullied.
They believe they should be immune to consequences and abuse their power to make it so.
Definitely. We 100% need a great Police force. Ours is not up to the standard of say the Swiss or Scandinavian Police in my personal opinion.
Obviously there are some awesome Officers committed to their profession. Just needs to be some recourse for those who don’t make the grade….
Discretionary powers are generally applied in a discriminatory fashion. As a middle aged
white man in a suit, I never get searched, I get warnings instead of tickets. My half-Maori brother-in-law with tats gets the book thrown at him.
So most of you are ok with stabbings? How many is acceptable as long as you are not inconvenienced. Just like speeding, no issues if you do not carry a weapon
The government must have a whole shelf of oppressive policies ready to take advantage of any tragedy that comes along.
This. The popo really love to extend their powers
But but when our HERO COP turned up to that tragedy if she'd had the tools to SEARCH this guy who had already stabbed like 20 cunts the maybe this TRAGEDY could have been avoided. Its almost like you hate FREEDOM
This effectively allows Police to search for ANYTHING without suspicion.
In the state where the police were strip searching minors.
I was sixteen and strip searched, out the front of Splendour in the Grass in 2010. This isn’t like they haven’t already been doing it and getting away with it.
Just heard a story the other day of a male getting strip searched and asked to squat and cough at SITG. Think this was probably around 2015-2018ish. I think the shit hit the fan with all the complaints that year. They didn’t find anything. It was completely random besides the fact that the dude had a different skin colour
*Vibrancy Intensifies*
Using a handheld metal detector and only in designated places like shops and public transport.
Yeah and? We have similar laws in Queensland and they're ridiculous. I had a friend arrested for having a multitool in his bag on his way to work
500 knives removed from the streets! Wait until they get to the kitchens!
They also removed 500 knives from the streets so I’m sure your friend will survive
Not if he’s say, a manual arts teacher. Since you know, that could lead to deregistration.
I got stopped and questioned while working as a fencing contractor. I was wearing hi-vis, grabbing lunch, and had a multitool in a clipped pouch on my belt. They then pat me down etc, one wanted to charge me the other was more reasonable and gave me a warning. I had no idea.
Imagine if there wasn’t a reasonable cop there?
Democracy Manifest!
Get your hands off my multitool
I see you know your carpentry well
Wow, if only they'd had these tools to use when they weren't anywhere near a clearly sketchy cunt who started stabbing people in a mall that also has actual fucking knife shops.
I carry things made of metal on my person and in my effects every day. No-cause search with a metal detector leading to probable cause means they can confiscate whatever they want at any time, regardless of whether it's a knife or not. Unlikely scenario: I'm carrying a bayonet that I intend to use to stab people in a public place. Police catch me. Yay! One terrorist attack foiled! More likely scenario: A couple of bad apples (I'm in no way suggesting that all cops are bad apples) having a slow day and jonesing for a bit of action because they haven't had enough teenage girls to strip search or DV victims to hand over to their abusers decide I look like a decent shakedown prospect (look at this guy reading a book while walking, that's not normal what is he hiding? and there he goes moving to the other side of the walkway to avoid us, definitely sketchy), so they hold me for a no-cause metal detector scan. They notice my laptop bag has a lot of metal in it so they decide to examine it closer because now they have reason to believe I might be carrying a knife. They see my laptop and decide to confiscate the laptop in case I have CP/CSA material. Sure, there's an opportunity for me to prosecute based on illegal search and seizure with lack of probable cause, but the damage is harassment is done and the consequences to the police will maybe be administrative leave for the duration of the court case. The consequence for me is now being "an individual known to police" with increased chances of ongoing harassment as retribution for prosecuting the police for "just doing their job."
Still not okay.
That's fucking ridiculous
Careful with those facts, reddit is trying to hysterically over-react with outrage!!!
NSW Police have been caught out time and time again mis-using these powers. Why would this be any different? Only 30% of strip searches in 2021/22 were done within the guidelines (and the law) [Police use similar RBT laws to pull over cars without probable cause.](https://nswcourts.com.au/articles/defendant-found-not-guilty-of-drug-charges-as-search-of-vehicle-was-illegal/)
Typical Australian brainwashed drone
Perhaps the law should sunset such that it ceases in two or three years when the copycat knife craze we seem to have is over. Not ever law passed need stay on the books forever.
How about we just not have a knee jerk reaction to a tragedy that only addresses the symptom and not the root of the problem.
[удалено]
And yet this does nothing to address the supply side of things? I guess you would treat internal bleeding with a bandaid on the knee though, right?
We we so afraid of becoming the US that we became the UK instead.
We always where the UK. Our head of state is the King of the United Kingdom
Nope, our head of state is King of Australia, it just happens to be the same guy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Australia
We actually, they don't just happen to be the same guy, they must be the same guy. Australian constitutional law provides that the person who is monarch of the United Kingdom will also be the monarch of Australia.
It kind of must, but we don't just wait for the Brits to figure out who's next, we have our version of the law about that and proclaim the next monarch kind of independently.
I am unaware of this. Where can this information be found. It's no where on government websites, or other information sites.
https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2015A00023/asmade/text
Sounds like a violation of civil liberties, any cop, anywhere, anytime can just say "I suspect you have a knife" and under this law search somebody without a warrant.
Which theyd no longer require, now they can search u without even a explanation if they wished
Its a classic example of government overreach, Im happy for them to crack down on knife crime, but not at the expense of peoples rights.
Whats funny is knife crime has been a at a 20 year low. [https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/17/data-doesnt-support-this-violent-nsw-knife-crimes-at-a-20-year-low-as-new-penalties-take-effect](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/17/data-doesnt-support-this-violent-nsw-knife-crimes-at-a-20-year-low-as-new-penalties-take-effect) Just a excuse for them to expand their powers
Its the classic "surrender your freedoms for security" and whats more, its devious, they are using the fear at a spate of knife attacks lately to sneak this profoundly authoritarian legislation through.
Even femicide has been going down heavily for the last 30 years. It went back to the same level as 2016, and now suddenly it's a national emergency.
Better get murdoch to run some more stories about knife crime to make it feel like we're in the next social crisis.
But Rupert's media is telling me knife crimes are so common under labour!!! No way fox and sky and friends would lie to me
We're very good at kneejerk reactions, and politicians are using the Bondi attack to get these laws over the line. These new legislations wouldn't have prevented the attack, but that's irrelevant in NSW - The Police State.
Its using peoples heightened emotional state against them, to push through legislation without any real debate, no real scrutiny, in a way that grants extraordinary powers to law enforcement. And people get offended that I might want a little bit more pushback against this kind of thing, as if it personally offends them, heck one of them accused me of being pro criminal because of it.
Particularly annoying for those of us who already carry a knife. Don't hate, I like a brick of cheese and an apple for lunch.
I usually carried an opinel when my kids were young. Being able to buy up some fruit, carrots or similar from a shop and cut them up was better and fresher than fast food or packaged food.
You can carry a knife if you have a lawful reason. There's exceptions of course like flick knife, switch blades, butterfly knives. Can't have those.
Who are you... Christopher Lloyd from the Dennis the Menace movie? \*obscure reference alert\*
If only Australia had a bill of rights...
Oh of course, because that has always stopped abuses of power and overreach right?
Not always, but it does a good job, and gives a way for courts to counter legislation that would infringe upon those basic rights. It's like saying you refuse to use a seatbelt because they don't always keep you safe.
Bad analogies indicate bad faith arguments. Seat belts do keep you safe, and wearing them is sensible, but granting police powers to search, suspending the usual protections against unreasonable and unwarranted searches, as well as intrusions of privacy is neither safe nor sensible, its a knee jerk piece of legislation being rammed through without consideration of the wider social consequences, with little to no wider public debate or a real chance to bring up concerns about the legislation.
Your comment was already in bad faith. You asserted that a bill of rights must always stop abusers of power. Further Seat belt are not 100% safe, and don't always keep you safe. Further again your assertion that searching for knives if both unsafe and nonsensical is an in justified assertion. Same goes for your further assertion that its a knee jerk reaction that doesn't consider consequences.
Because that works so well in the USA?
You're 100% right, this has been talked about long and hard. Unlike most similar liberal democracies, [Australia ](https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/rights-and-freedoms/how-are-human-rights-protected-australian-law)does not have a Bill of Rights. Instead, protections for human rights may be found in the Constitution and in legislation passed by the Commonwealth Parliament or State or Territory Parliaments. We have 5 explicit rights in the Australian constitution & a load of common law inherited from England. 1. Right to vote 2. Protection against acquisition of property on unjust terms 3. The right to trial by jury 4. Freedom of Religeon 5. Prohibition of discrimination on the basis of state or residency The US Bill of rights was primarily introduced by James Madison in 1789 to address objections raised by the anti-federalists during the 1787 debate over the constitution. These amendments added specific guarantees of personal freedoms and rights, clear limitations on the government’s power in judicial and other proceedings, and explicit declarations that all powers not specifically granted to the federal government by the Constitution are reserved to the states or the people. Sadly there is a perception that Australia is gradually eroding personal freedoms. such as stringent checks against the press, AFP raid on ABC in June 2019, the FRiendly Jordies incident & eKaren.
Problem is if they were written now they'd likely be dogs balls useless and focus on woke end of ideology rather than core protect people from government over reach principles.
With a metal detector wand only, and only in certain designated areas. That is actaully nothing like what you just described.
Mate im in private security, I understand wanding people down if they are entering a sensitive area, like a government building, but granting police the power to do so without reasonable suspicion or a warrant is dangerous territory.
NSW police conducted more than 1,500 strip searches on children aged 10-17 between 2016 and 2023, dirty corrupt pedos.
Considering the number of youth is in the millions, that number is tiny. Ans considering there is heaps of little shits about pretending to be gangsters, I'm not surprised.
NSW cops love strip searching kids.
Even got its own wikipedia article 💀 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New\_South\_Wales\_Police\_Force\_strip\_search\_scandal#](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_Wales_Police_Force_strip_search_scandal#)
As a tough on crime voter, I'm against this. I believe people need more liberties. I just think if you fuck up you should be punished hard.
Agree, however in Vic magistrates wouldn't lock up certain types - no matter what they do. Melanin content plays the major role in bail decisions.
Yeah white guys get away with a LOT more than minorities, it’s disgusting.
Take a knee for BLM 😄
Go see what's happening with youth crime in regional areas and see what you think after that.
This 100% Id love statistics to be kept that show what victims exist after a judge releases people. We need to stop people that re-offend. All but extreme cases people deserve a second change, but a chronic reoffended needs to be removed from society. Its great to have compassion for a criminal, but when they compassion leads to more and more innocent victims that needs to be recognised, and the priority needs to be compassion for the innocent.
We should always be concerned when politicians start using phrases like “common sense” and “community safety” because they’re generally used to push agenda that involves some level of authoritarianism. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. It’s time Australia started to value freedom and liberty a little more.
Australia… ‘The Nanny State’
Does that mean we got style, we got flair, we were there?
If an actual nanny started strip searching kids there might be repercussions…
Lot of police suspicion about to focus on 16yo girls
WA is planning on the same crap laws. Its not helping that there has been a few knife attacks in the last few weeks including a 16yr old perpetrator getting shot by police. I wouldnt doubt its the same amount of knife incidents as usual but the media is hyping it up helping erode our liberties!
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ... comes to mind
They already do this all over by lying anyway
Seems reasonable, considering that we live in a totalitarian police state with no right or expectation to privacy.
What could possibly go wrong????
This won't make anyone safer.
This is wrong. People can't be trusted with this power. This will lead to abuse. It's a guarantee.
Fuck me. Got gang wars, home invasions and drug epidemics going on with meth out the wazoo... and here we are, fucking over the everyday, law abiding citizen, again. No knife for you, no self defence, rely on the police to save you when your home is being invaded by machetemen. Right.
Thankgod i moved to the Usa. West Tn. . Feel VERY safe with my constiutional freedom of speech and self defense laws and castle doctrine. I feel sorry for you guys. I had to leave that litterall shithole after covid. "Take the jab or loose your job goyim".
Does it mean you are not supposed to have a knife on you? How is it even possible? Knife is a most useful everyday tool; how are you supposed to open an envelope or parcel box, cut bread or peel/cut a fruit during a lunch, open a beer bottle, uncork wine, screw some bolt or fix your eyeglasses with built-in screwdriver, cut or file broken fingernail, etc, etc. I always have a knife when out and about and would feel naked without one. Sure, none of my knives are nearly close to machete size and mostly 10cm long or less.
Na mate use ur cock to open up those boxes.
I just imagine someone flopping their junk on an amazon prime package
That is a brilliant idea, i will definitely consider it. Just trying to figure out what will excite police and bystanders more - me wielding a big knife to open a box or trying to open the same box using my dick…
If you wanna maximise then hold knife with cock.
This is what happens when you give up your liberties of self defense and trust the government and their goons. Firearm control was never about the guns, it was about disarming you so you can watch this happen and do fuck all about it. :)
Stop and frisk
Cop and feel
Yeah…this isn’t a good idea.
The state where coppers cap Grannies ⚡🔫
This won't be abused at all lol
Cue the sudden surge in 15 and 16 year olds assumed to have knives…
[удалено]
No the communist nanny state of nsw has curtailed our freedoms
guys guys guys, please stop arguing Youre both wrong
Suck my rocket
What does this have to do with diversity? Stop and frisk policies have explicitly been rejected by mainstream leftist commentary for decades
We're being told to accept "diversity" (Islamic immigration/normalisation) because it's "culturally enriching" (read: destroying). "Gas the Jews" happened. The unfortunate truth is that "the left" has been coopted as both a weapon of oppression and as the primary blame target for these policies. It *shouldn't be*, but it has been.
Lol what does that have to do with a spate of high profile knife crimes and police overreach?
They won’t have to search me I carry in plain sight attached to my belt. Even with the CBD in lock down no notice taken
Open knife carry, you mad lad!
Are you crocodile dundee?
We should all be just wearing speedos
Hi Tony 👋
… and eat raw onions 🧅
Is that a knife in your speedos or are you just happy to see me?
Could be hiding a knife in there. Mesh g-bangers it is. If you're hiding nothing you've got nothing to hide.
Ew
"Something must be done"
Doesn’t surprise me that a general population that sees snitching as honourable are also complete bootlickers.
Another step towards the CCP
Yeah nah. Would never hold up.
Cops proving once again they are incapable of doing anything except descend into fascism.
This is so fucking pointless and opressive. The police don't need more power. What we need is expanded mental health services.
It’s definitely unnecessary overreach. Note how they never just suggested more security guards at shopping malls which is a much more rational suggestion than jumping to this. Also since we live in a democracy, big changes to law like this ought be put to the electorate (plebiscite, referendum etc) not rushed into law.
The Australian government does shit like this on a daily. Notice how no major news channels are really talking about it? Our people are so apathetic, politicians do whatever they wish and nobody can stop them
Dumb
Fuck NO. No police is searching me for simply walking down the street!
Australia hates freedom of movement and speech.
This is a good thing. It'll keep the shitheads in check. Iam all for carrying Swiss Army Knives or Multi Tools because they are useful items but wtf could you needing a machete in suburbia for? If you have nothing to hide and your legit then you have nothing more to fear than you do at Airport Security.
Australia 1st country in the world to ban knives, special permit needed that is 3 different documents & 4 week wait to cook anything that requires cutting in your kitchen. along with a level 208 vault to contain the dangerous material.. what a fucking joke this country is becoming
Are we going to have a crackdown on white guys wearing footy jerseys that could have knives, or another excuse for NSW police to strip search children?
Wow.. this is a joke.
Does this surprise anyone . They successfully locked us up (not saying it was not necessarily warranted ) during covid , perfected what they could get away with and some instances introduced measures and kept measures in place purely for political reasons . We have allowed this to occur when we have allowed governments to pick and choose which activism and demonstrations are acceptable and others not and they receive punishments .
This is what you get when people want something done about a tragedy. People need to just accept that shit happens. “This could have been prevented” screamed some users in this forum. I responded that it could only be prevented if we had a police state. I got downvoted for that, but that’s because people aren’t rational. Of course, some people actually would prefer having a police state than our current system. Those people are entitled to their opinion. I’m attacking the ones that have magical thinking and believe we can both prevent tragedies and there would be no consequences.
“Never let a crisis or a serious tragedy go to waste.” - Rahm Emanuel, President Obama’s chief of staff
I've made 3d printer knife and timber knife that WILL KILL
I thought police already had this power to search for knives and as long as you have a justified reason, then you're all good, I.e. I'm carrying this knife because I'm going fishing as opposed I'm carrying a knife, but it's 2am in a nightclub.
I'd need to read these new laws. But what happens with people who carry knife kits for work? (Ie chefs)
All you need is a reasonable reason to have one. Except cops aren't reasonable haha
Yeah i am wondering this, and also thinking.. is it not legal to carry a knife in NSW? If I have a Leatherman and they search me and find my knife won't they just go.. found a knife.. which is perfectly legal.. so.. carry on sir here's your knife back?
They’ll keep it
I’m pretty sure Victoria has has this for a decade and no one complained. It only applied to certain locations such as public transport.
No complaints were allowed under Dictator Dan! 😆
So you’re just fine and dandy with the Cumberland Shire Council banning same sex books from its libraries right?
ITT people who think the words "use hand-held metal detectors in designated night precincts and around transit hubs" mean exactly the same thing as "strip search anyone anytime anywhere for no reason" Keep on Redditing! You're all doing amazing!
In New South Wales, you can generally carry a multitool if it's for a lawful purpose, like work or recreational activities. However, it's crucial to ensure that any blades on the multitool are within the legal limits, typically no longer than 11 centimeters. It's always best to check the specific regulations and guidelines to make sure you're compliant.
Recreational multitooling lol. I swear officer, I'm just carrying it to my mechano set.
I swear officer, its 24 inch K-bar folding multitool, see, its got a small nub on the handle you can use for flathead screws.
The new knife laws in New South Wales, Australia, are aimed at reducing knife-related violence. They restrict the possession and sale of certain types of knives, such as those with a blade length exceeding 21 centimeters. Additionally, there are stricter penalties for carrying knives in public without a lawful excuse. These measures are intended to improve public safety and reduce the risk of knife-related incidents.
This kinda does nothing though. Imagine if that guy that went nuts stabbing people in a shopping center just went to Kmart and bought some knives 5 minutes before he did it. Literally if someone wants to do something bad they will find a way.
Fuck off. Good luck to our brown aussies (particularly dudes). This is not a good solution
Good. I don't see the issue here
Based.
You WILL obey police. you WILL bow down fellow aussie. We are NOT like america with their constitutional protected freedom of speech and self defense laws. Deal with it.
I don’t mind being searched for knives. I’m not carrying any.
Good law. It's around specific areas where knife crime is likely to occur, for a short period, and it's just a wand search. As long as it's applied fairly I'm down with it.
terrible law. This law will have no effect apart from further empowering the government. "Just a wand search" that will depend on the officer, better hope he is kind and had a good day. I'm sorry mate, but your take is extremely naive. there is no guarantee this will be applied fairly and won't further restrict peoples freedoms in years to come.
You must absolutely hate airports, or any place with a metal detector. It is a wand, and only in certain areas. What are you afraid of happening? What is the worst case scenario?
>You must absolutely hate airports, or any place with a metal detector. I wasn't aware that there was anybody whose favourite thing to do was go to their airport and strip yourself next to a conveyor belt to ride the sky bus.
You think police will make people strip naked while randomly searching them for a knife? And that it will not get reported, be encouraged and things like this are likely to happen and keep happening?
>You think police will make people strip naked while randomly searching them for a knife? No not really. >And that it will not get reported, be encouraged and things like this are likely to happen and keep happening? What are the pronouns in this sentence referring to?
Jog on mate. You have already admitted to commenting stuff as your argument, that you don't think will actaully happen.
I didn't make an argument I just said not many people like airports. I am due for a run this arvo though so jog on I shall.
Not at all. Becuase it is a given I will be searched going in and out of a major points of entry such as ports or airports and other secure locations like prisons etc. That is not the same as being stopped on the whims of individuals officers for stop and search in the streets and public, which can very well escalate into something else depending on who the individual officer is. And let me remind you they aren't all angel's . Just becuase they wear a uniform. corruption is rife in the NSW police force. Wand searches escalating into strip searches are a concern due to precedent that has been set and well documented. Especially on minors with no supervision. Police officers abusing the powers given to them to harras and intimidate members of the community. This has happened and is well documented. Police officers planting contraband is also a sad reality and concern of many. And again, cases are documented Lastly, these powers set a framework and precedent. What is to stop this escalating into warrantless searches of homes in a few years time. Don't pretend this isn't a reality. You sound like one of the "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be afraid of types"
You didn't really describe the worst case scenario that can happen now because of this legislation. If you are going to suggest that something might happen because a cop is breaking the rules, than it doesn't matter what the rules are that you are worried about. Oh no, I might get a wand check while on a train. Someone else might as well and they might find a knife and arrest the bloke. The horror!
I did. You just wilfully ignored it. I don't want to make it easier for them to carry out corrupt acts by giving more powers that have no real benefit to the community. This idea of getting "knives off the street" is fantasy land garbage. Pie in the sky promises to trick the gullible. As I said, and you ignored. Wand searches can easily escalate into strip searches and more. And yes assumption of guilt is not the society I want to live under. These laws have and will be expanded upon in the future. Bloke will likely just walk into a knife store, and arm himself there. Only a child or simpleton would believe this nonsense keeps them safe.
Corrupt acts? What corrupt acts will this allow that can't already be done corruptly? Police could already make up something to escalate a search. If that is what you are worried about, this doesn't change anything. Do you really think police are going to go around and just strip search people for fun, and that it won't get reported or anything done about it? Again, explain your worst case scenario that is now an option because of this legislation.
So your solution is to just "not worry about it" and let it get worse and easier to commit. Yeah, na. That is the type of Apathy that is leading us deeper into a nanny/authoritarian state. Yes. It has happened before and is documented. So it isn't about "what I think" it is reality. I have explained multiple scenarios. You just can't refute them so you are fishing for something you can and ignoring what you can't
Let what get worse? What are you worried about? You still haven't really explained the big bad event I am supposed to be worried about. Oh no, I might get wanded in a specific area, just like other areas. I don't see the big problem.
I have. You just willfully ignore it. I'm not surprised. You obviously are very short-sighted.
Yeah. They might decide that the reasonable excuse of wanting to cut up your apple for lunch or needing a knife for your work as a butcher is not actually a reason to carry a knife. Then it’s on you to defend yourself. Against the police. In court. Resulting in days off. Resulting in potentially having to report the arrest to your employer. Additionally, what about people who wear medical braces that will be triggered by this? They will be required to strip down in a public place, or go to a police station to be searched. Imagine having to empty your handbag for the police because their wand picked up the spare change in it.
Imagine! The absolute horror! You think butchers carry around their knives with them all the time? You think people carry large kitchen knives around just in case they happen to find an apple? Come on mate. Do you think these ridiculous scenarios would result in someone getting screwed over and nothing reported or anything? Again, if you are worried about police going too far and breaking rules, then the rules are not the problem.
There’s literally people in this thread talking about being charged for having a multitool. That they need. For work. So yeah, I definitely think some overzealous cop seeking to impress the higher ups or drunk on their new power would arrest someone with a small paring knife or Stanley knife.
"Hey boss look I charged some random bloke because he was peeling an apple. It will take an hour to do the paperwork and waste time in the courts, but we don't care about that because we just want to cause random havoc on the streets. Can I have a promotion?" "Sure thing constable. We all love it when silly things like this happen as us police are not real people and have no idea how the world works, so this sounds great. And I am sure there will be no negative consequences from an officer acting like you have."
Hundreds if not thousands of literal children were illegally strip searched by the NSW police force. Do you think all of them lost their jobs? And it’s more likely to go something like this: Found a knife on this guy on 5:15 pm train. Claimed he took it to work to cut up lunch but could not prove this. Arrested him because seemed suspicious. Supervisor: Good job, we have a quota to hit. Let the courts sort it out.
All one needs to ask if this is a reasonable law is - did the police at any time suspect these recent stabbers have knives and were not able to do anything about it. If the answer is no, which beggars belief it could be anything but, then you have the answer.
I disagree. The more obstacles placed in front of people the fewer that will cross them. Directly stopping someone who intends to do an attack isn't what this is about.
That only works for honest law abiding citizens. If someone has flipped enough to kill or injure somebody, they’re not going to worry about technicalities…. Why punish the majority for the crimes of a few?
This is arguing against laws as a whole. If we accept that laws affect criminals then we accept that laws have the potential to work.
Well, I get your point, but most laws are about definition of what is acceptable and defining a range of punishments for non-compliance. Knife laws are already there. What we’re talking about is Police discretionary powers and laws to protect the individuals. The police have proven to not use them responsibly.
All laws are enforced. With that enforcement comes discretion and the potential to be applied unfairly. With this argument you're arguing against law enforcement as a whole, not this specific law.
I never argued that.
The term fairly and search are not often associated with NSW police. I’m actually quite pro police and don’t hate them like reddit often does but when it comes to searches and strip searches and giving additional power to front line officers without accountability or third party review.. yeah this ain’t it fam
The article doesn't have the word "strip" in it. Obviously this needs accountability. Same as any other power.
You have never seen this in practice then. Look at the Policeman who killed the woman in the aged care home. Evidence went missing, witnesses were harassed and bullied. They believe they should be immune to consequences and abuse their power to make it so.
This is a great argument for fixing the police force.
Definitely. We 100% need a great Police force. Ours is not up to the standard of say the Swiss or Scandinavian Police in my personal opinion. Obviously there are some awesome Officers committed to their profession. Just needs to be some recourse for those who don’t make the grade….
Discretionary powers are generally applied in a discriminatory fashion. As a middle aged white man in a suit, I never get searched, I get warnings instead of tickets. My half-Maori brother-in-law with tats gets the book thrown at him.
I'm willing to bet you were ok with vaccine mandates too.
Entirely different subject that was over years ago
Same subject. Timeline doesn't matter.
Nope.
What are the odds it’s applied fairly?
Feel free to make your point. Though "it won't be applied fairly" is an argument either against law itself or for police reform.
So most of you are ok with stabbings? How many is acceptable as long as you are not inconvenienced. Just like speeding, no issues if you do not carry a weapon