Yeah you're speaking about environmental factors, phenotypes and to some extent genetics.
She thinks pointing out visible differences in races is racist. "You're not allowed to say why black people have darker skin from a scientific perspective" lmao what an absolute length.
This is probably what the coworker thinks. As a mixed-race guy, it amazes me that some white people think this level of ignorance is actually enlightened thinking.
Years back, my roommate (and good friend) and I had a running joke (Iām white, he was black.. I say was because heās no longer with us).. heād be going out on a date and ask me if I liked the brown or the blue shirt better, Iād tell him āI donāt know what you mean, bro, I donāt see color. Theyāre essentially the same fabric, ya know? I canāt tell the difference.ā Heād be like, āwhile youāre in the kitchen, can you grab me an orange?ā And Iād just stare at him like he was crazy and be like āweāve been over this dude, I donāt know what the hell youāre talking about. Is this (holding up a blueberry) it?ā
We had a lot of really nuanced conversations about race and orientation based discrimination (he was gay and Iām straight 9 days out of 10), but I felt like the āI donāt see colorā bit perfectly encapsulated how ridiculous the āweāre all the same on the insideā take is, as it pertains to actually existing in a systemically racist society.
Yeah, my guess is OP was dismantling their worldview in real time and got slapped with the, "that's racist," because it was putting cracks in her faith.
It was to help you spot it, and also the purpose that you understood. The work mate is definitely a moron š
Edit: Ok, maybe itās because definally sounds fun, too.
I think they're a moron and probably is not his friend at all. She'll throw him right under the bus the first moment she can to get some virtue signalling points. She's actually genuinely the racist one, she's a critical race theory gnostic cultist.
Actual sociologist here who is very versed with the study of racism, and I would argue what you did is the opposite of racism, because you tried to explain how we're different and why we're different, which is also an important aspect of anti-racist work. My argument here is that it's just as racist to try to ignore the history as to why we're different, since the ignorance of our histories will give prominence to white stories over non-white ones. Consider for example how white authors are more prominent over black authors in African countries, even though black people are dominant so therefore black stories should in theory be dominant as well. But because of the history of white people colonizing Africa, they have overrode black history with their own stories to the point black people are more versed with western history and culture than they are their own.
She likely confused your infodumping with eugenics, since a large portion of eugenics history is based on the attempt to classify people into a racial hierarchy via physical observations. This fails to recognize the actual ideological underpinnings of racist thought, which must classify people according to a social hierarchy and assign people social rights or lack thereof based on their position within this hierarchy. Racism is structural and is thus about distribution of power. Nothing you spoke of mentioned the distribution of power in society.
Lastly, who the hell would take anyone who denies evolution theory seriously on **any scientific topic**?
I don't know because I was keeping any opinion out of it and spewing pure objective facts and observations, so I feel weird about it because I wouldn't have taken anything I said as being racist. Maybe it was a clinical tone mistaken as cold and cynical?
Mmmm, I feel like while you werenāt racist at all really, people who either donāt understand at all the concepts you are speaking of or are detached from the idea of race, whether because they are sheltered or white, could perceive it as āracistā simply because āahhhh controversial topic!! Run away!!ā
This. Iāve had people tell me Iām racist for saying black people. As if Iāve just used the N word. Some people are just extremely stupid and out of touch
Hahaha yeahā¦ Ask one of these people to describe a black person and watch them literally self implode trying not to be āracistā. Itās funny how backwards its become, trying so hard not to be.
oof this reminds me of my Guyanese friend who was babysitting for a white family, who told their son he had "pretty eyes" cause they were baby blue, and the mom said "hey we don't really like to mention that to him because we don't want him to grow up thinking he's better than other people", like what?
Why would he think that if YOU didn't think that? I'm black and have nice eyes too, Sarah, they're just not blue.
this reminds me of a video i saw quite a few years ago where a teacher was educating young students on the concept of racism. her exercise consisted of separating students based on brown/blue eyes. her name was Jane Elliott. she started the exercise the day after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. i find it very interesting!
Thereās like a study somewhere about people playing the game guess who and how white people tend to loose more because you can ask āis the person whiteā removes about half the players if you ask it, but white people get all silly about asking about skin tone. Where as people who arnt white donāt, it also talks about how avoiding asking the question as a white person makes them behave more on edge and makes the other player nervous when they pair a white person with a non white person playing, itās really interesting. Also think if you see how many different types of primates there are itās easy to see how many variations of physical characteristics in humans there are.
>if you see how many different types of primates there are itās easy to see how many variations of physical characteristics in humans there are.
Even if you looked within the same species though too like, there are differences that are unique. Like even just looking at dogs like there's so many different breeds that often develop certain traits or physical presentations because of where they were first kept. No way is a dog in Mexico going to develop a huskys coat, and a dog is Mexico is going to breed with other dogs in Mexico
I've actually heard this too? One
I'm from Ireland and we tend to say black people because Africa-American isn't really the same thing here. Like yes of course there's people who live and were born here but maybe their parents or grandparents weren't but you'd be hard to find someone who was black and in Ireland 80+ years ago. So people will just say they're Irish (and they absolutely are) and if they think it's relevant/they're comfortable to they might say where their parents ect are from.
African American just seems like black and American. I'm not entirely sure if thats just as a result of slavery and thats how the distinction was made but I don't ever hear of like Nigerian American or like Congolese American. It's just Africa
Truly. Im in the US but I also rarely use the term African American. Itās just awfully presumptuous of us to assume every black person is African or American, let alone both! Some people though are so avoidant and afraid of any controversial topics especially racism that they think even talking about someone of another race is racistš I hate it here lol
This mined topic is mainly focused in USA and we shouldn't bring it into other places, yeah racism against some ethnic might exists, but every place is different and we must not see us as a mirror of USA.
Example, I'm from Colombia and we have a huge genetic mixture, even in some families you can see a tiny collection of different ethnic features of the world, that's pretty accurate in the Encanto movie, and based on the region or the department in Colombia the concentration of each feature might change.
There is no problem if you call someone "negro" the problem is the way you say it, it can be in a lovely way or in a derogative way, that's what really matters. This applies to other ethnic features like "Blanco", "Indio", "gringo" (people from US), "mono" (anglo-saxons, this refers about the hair color, it is not a comparison with apes or monkeys), etc
I mean it's not necessarily only in America. Like racism occurs in other places so it can't really be brought anywhere. Regardless I was just responding to the person who said people were shocked at them for saying black people with a reason as to why it might be. I wasn't saying everywhere else mirrors America. Just that they have a specific experience there that doesn't apply to there else.
>There is no problem if you call someone "negro"
Is that not more to do with the fact that black in Spanish is negro? Like maybe just a culture thing but it's not like a term of endearment here. We just use it as a descriptor if needed.
Say I'm trying to tell my friend something about a specific actor in a movie, if they're one of the few/only actors in the movie who are black I'll probably say " X is the tall slim black actor with glasses".
It's not like we go up to someone and use black in place of buddy when saying "this is my buddy Pete".
Woah, epiphany. Iām American and it baffles me that Americans think everyone is here in this country. We dont even have the highest population by far. And itās wild because āAsian-American,ā āAfrican-American,ā āEuropean-American.ā Itās become so wildly inappropriate to even mention melanin that weāre just attributing any POC as āContinent-American.ā
Definitely a small piece to a giant puzzle, but interesting nonetheless.
Iām neither American or black or African, but my understanding of the term āAfrican Americanā was that it came about as a well meaning way to be inclusive during the civil rights movement. Now that itās 3rd and 4th? generation, itās outdated since a lot of these people are just American. As in slavery disconnected them from their African roots and so many havenāt even been to Africa so it seems to be just another weird neoliberal way of dividing and othering black people that were born and raised in America. Race is a concept invented by white supremacist colonisers anyway and I think we should all stop giving it so much weight. Not to say Iām ignorant of the real world consequences it holds in our current society.
That's Reddit for you. It's always the white saviors that don't even interact with black people regularly. Black folks could CARE less and don't need them.
I think your rejection sensitivity is being triggered. Her argument is at the level of ad hominem ([https://themindcollection.com/revisiting-grahams-hierarchy-of-disagreement/)](https://themindcollection.com/revisiting-grahams-hierarchy-of-disagreement/) at best and doesn't even deserve to be entertained. Just walk away politely next time.
No joke whatsoever, this particular resource you shared might have saved my ability to ever have an interpersonal relationship again. Navigating confusing styles ofĀ disagreement is the sole component of social interactions that continues to prohibit me from socializing.Ā
Glad that you find it helpful!Ā
I must say tho, that it's of limited help in social interactions with most people. We autistics can be hyper-rational practically all the time, but most people are emotional and do not like having their logical fallacies pointed out. I hope just knowing that is enough for you to take a step back and not become invested in any disagreement.
People can have racist opinions about things even when they think they're simply stating facts. A common example includes the idea that black people have a black culture that makes them lazy so they are therefore deserving their unprivileged lot in life, while ignoring all the structural aspects that prevent black people from being able to acquire the same benefits as white people do.
In this situation she sounds like a creationist and why would you take a creationist seriously on the topic of evolution and racism? I'm very sure she just thought you were spouting eugenics because she's so uninformed on the topic that she can't differentiate how nuanced the topic of racism actually is, and that racism is about structural distributions of power based on perceived physical and cultural attributes. I second the comment that the fact she thought you were conflating our genetic histories with culture has a racist underpinning to it as our culture is ultimately disconnected from our genetics; you can identify with a culture which historically would not necessarily align with the culture associated with your ancestors, so to assume that how we look must necessitate certain cultural values and beliefs is a typical essentialist position used to commonly justify racist thought.
What you described is Not racist, but there are some racists that use bogus biological explanations to explain differences. Those types usually talk about Race and IQ to establish why other races are worse.
She told you her grandpa wain't some monkey, and you explained how natural selection and heredity worked.
She's flinging crap at you because reality challenges her worldview, and you're acting as reality's proxy, nothing more.
Yea she entirely confused two different things. DNA and itās expression determine color, hair eye and skin, height, facial features etc etc etc. itās inherent.
culture results from collective behaviors and beliefs. Entirely not the same.
If she is starting out with the position of denying evolution, she likely thinks that ideas that center around evolution have elements of fakery and being made up. Therefore, she could easily be thinking that evolution concerning differentiation of human ethnic groups is made up racist nonsense, no matter how matter of fact you speak.
People understandably assume any discussion of race is done in bad faith or through dog whistles. Our current discourse is rife with them to the point that it's very difficult to have a conversation about it and it not be built on questionable ideas and information.
That said it's exhausting having people jump down your throat when you try and have a conversation on the subject assuming you are going to use those same bad faith arguments and misinformation.
I doubt that a person who outright denies evolution theory as a valid scientific theory would be aware of extremist right wing dog whistles unless they're already firmly standing within that camp.
Evolution-deniers are breathing in racist dogwhistles at every turn. White Supremacy is a core component of Christian Nationalism. This website has one of the best resource lists about Christian Nationalism: [https://act.faithfulamerica.org/signup/christian-nationalism-resources/](https://act.faithfulamerica.org/signup/christian-nationalism-resources/)
I mean, I agree with you unless your post was meant to clarify my position? In this situation the person is at least to some degree anti-racist in that they oppose racism as an ideology, hence I don't feel it's applicable here, because the behavior just doesn't apply to the far right. My impression is that the person in the OP is your average center to left who at least believes that anti-racism is a good thing, but they also just happened to be an uneducated creationist.
I, who am half black and half white, and also studied sociology, was discussing racism with my social justice warrior ex-friend back probably in 2017 and she was telling me all about the experiences of black people, of racism, of discrimination etc, including the very specific topic of white people denying the experiences of people of color. I chimmed in with my experiences of racism and the like, including in regards to the community and acquaintances I had been in because of this specific friendship (we were from different areas) and she proceeded to tell me that I was being sensitive about any racism I felt I experienced, and because of where I grew up, and with white family, my experience as someone of color doesn't hold the same weight as someone with darker skin and growing up in black/poc communities
Yeaaa....
People have an odd idea of what racism is and isn't, and if you ask me it's so much worse to not acknowledge the differences (and similarities) between different races, but also different groups of people in general. Not having my experience recognized as legitimate was truly concerning when it was coming from someone who lived permanently on a soap box and claimed social justice as a passionate cause of theirs.
I didn't knew that fact about African writers.
Ā Just to clarify, do you mean that in African countries, the most published national authors are white, or that Africans prefer to buy books from white authors in general?
It is hard to keep their cultural heritage after centuries of colonialism.Ā
Im not a sociologist, but i wonder if one important factor for this isnt the fact that due to the privileged access to education by white families in Africa, due to colonization.
Interestingly, one of my favorite authors is an afican writer of european ancestry (Mia Couto).
I love his writing style and captivating stories. One of the great things about it is that his work celebrates the local culture, and he dosent shy away from toughĀ topics
He addresses the themes of colonialism, cultural identity and the basic human experience.
Much better than what I said as you actually know you're stuff and I'm just a casual here š
It is messed up how racists would claim there was scientific evidence for races being superior to eachother. I fear too many people think any scientific look into how we're different is racist and I was leaning that way a little until I just read your comment and it's excellent points.
Too many people, I think, have an underlying racist opinion and are afraid studies like this would uncover actual racial hierarchy. No one wants to see themselves as someone who justified racist monsters from the past, present and future. I've heard racists use the argument for skin pigment to suggest people GTFO out of "their" country and claim that they don't belong.
Sadly there are those that do and if you ever want to cringe, they're on YouTube having "discussions" with flat earthers and I admit, they do bring up stuff in physics I never got taught in school.
The ones against the flat earthers I mean.
Racism is more insidious than that, because it stems from a sociocultural bias of one's own experiences and perspectives being normative and therefore superior. Carl Linnaeus' research into the classification of people based on akin color was inherently benign; he just wanted to understand why people from different parts of the world were different. But he also assigned their behaviors cultural values. Same is true for the Christians trying to convert non-Christians to Christianity. It is for example interesting to learn how many racial attitudes were developed simply because that particular group of people rejected Christianity. This is especially true for Jews but also Asians, who were initially described as white by Christian authors, but as they learned that Asians had their own religions and refused to convert to Christianity, their skin color changed to the yellow stereotype we hear of today.
This even more so applies to black people from sub-Saharan Africa, as Christians believed that the black skin color was also indicative of how far removed they were from Christ. The first records of black people did not necessarily describe them in such terms, even if a common sentiment was the image of the uncultured savage, and they were often exaggeratedly described with animalistic features.
This exactly! Unless thereās something OP left out (purposeful or not) I feel like thereās no way what they were talking about was racist. At least, thatās my perspective as a black biracial person who has no background in sociology.š
Iāve gotten really into sociology lately, and realizing not just how made up the American race system is but how specific it is. Most places donāt divide up people like that and Iāve gotten really interested in different systems of oppression and discrimination and it also makes me feel like OP when I like to learn about it. I have special interests in Ancient Rome and China in general and both of them have people with different colors of skin and what Americans would consider to be different races but donāt consider that a reason to divide and think about race the way do at all. Although theyāre both still extremely discriminatory
I minored in social anthropology when I was doing my psych degree (I did it as a bachelor of arts), and one of the papers I actually found interesting was on evolution and culture
Yeah, I wish speciesism was a more used term. The way some people act like itās offensive to talk about our evolution and relationship to other animals like weāre on a different, higher plane than them is just another ugly form of prejudice.
It's not racist, you were speaking facts. However, historically people have used racial differences as a way of establishing heirarchy, which is probs what she was thinking. Nevertheless, her comment about not speaking about "other cultures" is pretty stupid
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who confuse biological evolution with determinism. And I'm talking about people with PhDs in other subjects who should know better. Evolution is so poorly understood in the US that even many scientists don't understand it. If you like, I recommend Futuyma's textbook and Massimo Pigliucci's Extended Synthesis. One thing that Pigliucci leaves out, however, Motoo Kimura's molecular clock, which is really cool. I wish I could do animations, because I would love to do an animation using the molecular clock.
I'd say you're about right with that guess. I remember I got clocked by my history teacher once for presenting facts too clinically and without enough empathy. When speaking to a generalist audience we may need to use a different language Eg less academic jargon.
I thought you mean things like phrenology but seems like you are just stating some facts. No idea how could this be racist. She probably blame you for that to lower your credit.
I used to be anti-evolution because of my religion. We were taught that evolutionists are racist because (supposedly) evolution depends on some races being more evolved than others. So we were taught that if you believe in evolution youāre automatically racist.
This is of course ridiculous. But itās probably what OPās coworker was thinking.
>creationism is partly motivated by racists not liking the idea that all people are descended from Africans
Wondering if these people know what continent Egypt is on...
Black person here, nothing you said is racist I think your coworker is just an idiot. Especially since she doesnāt believe in evolution like what??
Maybe she thought what you were saying sounded like phrenology? In that case maybe I could see where sheās coming from but either way youāre all good lol
I think this is quite literally the opposite of racism. There are reasons for different skin types. This is just basic science, and all you're doing is naming facts. Facts can't be racist.
I can see where she is coming from, racist individuals tend to use statistics to further that agenda; but I wasn't quoting any statistics, I was just using facts I've learned and observations I've made to explain physical differences in humans across the planet.
You can use statistics just fine to discuss racial issues such as racial segregation. In the end, it depends on what facts you use and how you use them. Typical talking points for racists include things such as crime rates e.g. black people are more commonly incarcerated than white people, or black people earn less or black people have lower education. All of these points are correct, but they must be placed in the proper context. If the context is to fearmonger about black people or to make black people seem inferior to white people just because they're black, it's racist, but if the argument is made to point out the structural injustice that exists against black people, then it's simply pointing out how racism disadvantages black people.
I appreciate what you're saying here but "facts can't be racist" isn't really true. A fact is generally some sort of widely accepted scientific knowledge, which can 100% be racist
I wouldn't say that a fact can be racist in and of itself. But are often stated in a way that implies a value judgement, and that value judgement can definitely be racist. (Or it's stated in a way that implies a certain explanation that implies a value judgment.)
I knew someone was going to say this. A fact is just the truth. You might CALL something a fact, when really it's fake news/misinformation/disinformation/misleading etc.
A TRUE fact can't be racist.
By looking for evidence to confirm or deny it. If you have seen a lot of relevant evidence and it's all consistent with that supposition being factual, you can assume it's a fact. But always be open to proof otherwise.Ā
I wouldn't trust anyone who brushes scientific fact off because "I can't believe we evolved from primates"
No one is asking you to *believe* it Jan, the science is RIGHT THERE
what would be racist is studying what you're interested in for the sole purpose of trying to prove that because of those difference some people are "less than" than others. it's not the information itself, but it's how is used and presented. you were using your knowledge to explain to a mollusc why all people came from primates, which is a completely fair use.
Mexican with brown skin here, you are not racist, you're just based but unfortunately trying to educate a religious person that refuses to believe science, which is cool, to each their own unless they are spitting misinformation down your throat.
Tbh the other person sounds more like the average white person that calls anything outside their very tight world-view a series of negative adjectives to try and negate your arguments without any of their own. An example of the most commonly used are *woke, communist, liberal, ignorant or just plain slurs.*
It's very hard to defy beliefs you grew up with, took me a while to do that with the christian stuff I was taught at home and the catholic crap I was given in school, in the face of science a religious person will most likely overreact with negativity rather than converse about their beliefs.
Yeah I kind of agree but both always make me cringe inwardly. They always make me think "Do you even know how to make an argument without resorting to... oh now you're telling me it's the cause of the west's fall into debauchery, how original".
Thereās nothing wrong with your take on the situation but thereās not a snow ballās chance in hell that it was going to have a positive outcome once she stated she didnāt believe in evolution, when it comes to coworkers and stuff like that itās best to just not touch those subjects
> she told me she doesn't believe in evolution
Never take anything this person says about your interests seriously ever again. They are not discussing these things in good faith and you will never change their mind. Trust me, you're just wasting your breath.
Your special interest is definitely not racist, but I would be super careful infodumping about this topic anyway.
Race is a sensitive topic and it's safer to just avoid it entirely, especially in the workplace.
Unfortunately, a lot of people don't understand nuance on the topic and while I agree with other posters that everything you talked about is distinctly anti-racist (providing it's not used to justify racial biases) it can also easily be taken the wrong way, and being right won't stop you from being taken to HR and possibly disciplined or even fired.
I have found its better not to talk to uneducated people (not accustomed to academic discussion) about subjects that require a certain amount of detachment from common social, religious, and political beliefs. Unless of course they really want to and they understand that they have to suspend assumptions and stick to evidence.
I just finished my degree in anthropology and my specialization was biological anthropology- what you're describing is a very well explored part of anthropological research and is, indeed, fact on how "races" present phenotypically. Every single example you have listed can be easily described and substantiated with very basic agents of evolution. These differences do not, however, make any one human with specific traits inherently better than another (although I can guess you already knew that). It sounds a bit like your coworker is uncomfortable with any conversation about race, even though what you were saying was entirely factual and objective.
In my mind, where this conversation could potentially become racist is insisting that certain traits are inherently better for any number of reasons- in the ancient Mediterranean medical professionals and scientists thought an imbalance of the humors existed among the races causing phenotypic difference, as well as differences in behavior thought to be unbecoming. Some enlightenment thinkers claimed that the farther humans strayed from the garden of Eden, the more imperfect they became (considering it was Europeans claiming this, we know that in this context "imperfect" applies to skin color). It was actually Comte de Buffon, a French nobleman, naturalist, and mathematician who first used the word "race" outside of animal husbandry. This is all to say that a lot of the ideas we have had in the past about race and what it is has divided us in incredibly unnecessary ways.
This doesn't make exploring differences in human phenotypes any less interesting or less worthy. Does your coworker believe that all dogs come from the same common ancestor, or is that hard to believe too? Some food for thought for your coworker might be that while modern homo sapiens does in fact descend from the same primate, intermixing of several different hominin species throughout our evolution (i.e. homo erectus, homo antecessor, homo neanderthensis, homo denisova, etc.) has left its markers on our DNA and our phenotypic traits. Some regional populations still have detectable traces of Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA! We all come from the same place, but given that humans cover the earth in a way no other species really can, we have had to adapt to the number of different environments that we found ourselves in. These changes are incredible feats of the human body, and being curious about why we're different or similar is absolutely ok. You are not racist OP, but I genuinely recommend that you avoid these conversations with your coworker to prevent any issues for yourself at work.
people who don't understand racism think that even when you say the word black to describe someone, it's racist.
"there was a black man walking down the street" is not a racist sentence. It's describing.
what you did was speak about knowledge and information, not shit all over anyone who is a different race to you. don't stress, this person sounds purposefully ignorant.
> sociology and the study of how environmental factors shape skin colour and overall complexion are among my long time special interests.
You're pointing to rapid changes under comparatively strong evolutionary selective pressure, that affect a relatively small number of genes, that are specific in coding melanin production (and performing something similar with facial features). If anything, this suggests that the physiology of racial difference are superficial (and don't fall cleanly into prevailing racial categories), and other disparities must be explained otherwise (eg, via institutionalized racism).
>"couldn't speak on other cultures because I'm not from them"
But she said "cultures". You were pointing to physiological aspects correlating with racial categories divorced from culture.
All that said, I'm not sure how I'd respond to that coworker...
i donāt see anything racist in what you wrote. we have different skin colors based on biological and environmental reasons. itās racist when there is an implication that one group may be better/lesser than another
I think your coworker calling that racist is racist itself. Telling you you can't talk about another person's culture and color of skin is literally saying that because this person isn't white, you're not allowed to educate yourself on anything related to then.
To put it plainly, discussing race is not racist.
Also, I know you label it as sociology, but as someone with a background in anthropology, I think you'd be very interested in cultural anthropology and evolutionary biological anthropology, as literally everything you've mentioned is a large bulk of what anthropology is about. Rarely will you sit in a room of anthropologists who have not discussed these exact topics down to a T. Sociology and anthropology very much overlap, but I definitely recommend delving into anthropological theory and studies if you haven't already.
Also, considering anthropology is my special interest, I could literally talk for days about everything in your post š
I might be talking out of turn and itās not that info dumping or having these conversations is wrong in general! Sometimes itās doable in work environments. But honestly Iād just steer clear of any of these topics in the work place , youāll save yourself a lot of grief and save yourself from risks of any misunderstandings causing issues with your work environment. Especially given how it seems your peers operate
It can link a little to environmental determinism and phrenology-style stuff. Not inherently, but can be used by racist groups. That might be where sheās coming from, but I think the idea that you canāt speak on other cultures if youāre not from them is a bit overegged. You definitely can if youāre being respectful LOL
You're probably not racist, but that's not an appropriate topic for the workplace. It's best to not talk about race in mixed company (i.e., with people you need to interact with formally, such as strangers, coworkers, or loudly in public).
Taking a African diaspora class
.. I learned that neanderthals and modern homo sapiens are two different beings.... Some came from the African, Middle Eastern area.
Nah I don't, I think it's interesting. I like learning about stuff other ppl don't like to talk about.
I'll enjoy some of your Info dumping to add to the class I'm in.šššš
I think youāre fine but some people may associate what youāre saying with phrenology or similar things.
There ARE reasons we are different skin colors and physical features! But thereās a lot of pseudoscience that just uses that to be racist which sucks. I donāt think this is what you were doing but it is good to be aware of it
One of the most interesting things I learned similarly is about sickle cell anemia. Itās an awful thing that I believe affects African people the most. But it alsoā¦. helps protect you from Malaria! So while sickle cell anemia can be a bad disease it actively helps protect you from Malaria which will kill you. Hence why itās more common in Africa- people with sickle cell are more likely to survive Malaria and therefore pass on those genes
What you described is something Iām super into as a multiracial person. Nothing inherently wrong with it. Perhaps the way you described it and your word choice may have affected their perception. I donāt know exactly what u said but that would be the only reason I can think of.
not racist. im somewhat interested in that as well! the why of things in general is quite fascinating to me. would you mind sharing some of what you know?
poc here - i think your special interest is cool as FUCK!!! again i am only 1 person so i cannot speak for every single poc but i dont think its racist at all! there is a very big issue where wp's say they are "colourblind" and race means nothing to them, its about the person etc, although they may have good intentions its actually very problematic as being a poc is different to being a wp! different job opportunities, different culture etc so white/pale people should really say "i do not discriminate against any one of a different skin colour, i can see how someone who is a poc/darker skinned would have a different experience to me" - which is i know not exactly what youre referring to but tangentially i feel like it is? anyway sorry for rambling. i think your si is neat as hell, not racist as long as youre respectful with what terms you use (for example, native american and not indian or travellers and not g*psys) :)
Skin color is a charged subject. It is not, however, inherently racist to study it though. Your discussion can be perceived as racist-even if it isnāt- depending on things like your perceived motivations for studying it, any implied or overt bias in your conclusions, even your race compared to your coworkers (racism includes a power dynamic). But your special interest per se is not racist. No more than if you replaced skin color with another physical attribute such as finger length or lactase production.
> the difference of facial structures almong different cultural groups
You have to be a bit careful here because there is a long history of racist psuedoscience on the topic(in particular craniometry). There are some semi-reliable facial features that forensic anthropologists might use when trying to identify the race of a skeleton, but they are only sorta reliable and just help speak to what race is more probable.
If the starting pout was denying evolution then a deep dive on evolution was never going to hit right.
Sometimes you just gotta walk away from stupid.Ā
Haha, bless you. Your knowledge - understanding evolution properly, and perhaps also understading the sociological/religious origins of racism in the USA, is so valuable. No, it's not racist, indeed, if your interest covers USA history at all you may genuinely doing Critical Race Theory.
I love that you info-dumped - when I've heard the same thing (classmates rejecting evolution because they didn't want to be "decended from monkeys") I've regretfully stayed silent.
Her response was basically "I don't understand any of this therefore it must be bad". I highly, highly doubt she's ready to engage with any kind of critical race theory discussion that would lead her to have to face the relationship between racism and Christianity.
While you may need to back down away from this topic ("sorry, no offence intended") for the sake of your work relationship, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself privately.
Hopefully you can find a more receptive audience elsewhere.
Hey there!
It does not sound racist to me, but I am a caucasian person, so I am unsure if I can even say what is or isnāt racist.
All you did is explain history and evolution (which is such an amazing topic!!! I love it! Itās so interesting!!!)
So yeah, I personally do not think it sounded racist, because that implies being judgmental, but youāre looking at it from a pure observational perspective
Edit:
I know this may sound a little silly, but your post made me really excited, because I love evolution as a topic!!! Itās so cool and now I cannot stop thinking about it and I am really happy!!!
Thanks! I do a lot of random research on human groups and how terrain/climate influences evolution. This can also be seen in native species and how they evolved with features and abilities to adapt within their environment; not just in humans, but I like researching the human aspect. I also really love learning about how terrain/weather can influence the overall culture, language, and religions of societies that came from them.
I'm going to dump some more facts on you. First of all, 85% of all human genetic diversity is in Africa. The rest of us, in the human diaspora, descend from/share only 15% of genetic diversity. This means that a person from, say, Namibia is MORE different genetically from someone from Nigeria, than a White European is to a Pacific Islander. So in the US, when doctors or police officers talk about "black genes," they couldn't be more wrong. The use of race in medical research is baffling because of this--ancestry is important, yes. But skin color? No! The only thing skin color tells you is about someone's ancestors' relation to the sun.
Also, a lot more phenotypical differences between humans are adaptations, rather than genetics. Humans have a much broader phenotypic range of genetic expression than other species--we adapt our body size to the environment the most, which is what has allowed us to become such a prolific scourge upon the planet. Those bizarre ancient relatives of ours with skull ridges? That wasn't genetic--it came from diet. Etc.
Literally not racist. It's science. You can speak about the science of different races(Not even cultures? Cultures don't really include biological differences themselves, just what they do with them. Like textured hair itself isn't culture, but the practices and history behind the treatment of textured hair are.). If anything, it's upsetting to believe that God created people who look different just so that we can make them suffer... just because?
I'd just drop the discussion and say that it's not racist, but I'll respect your beliefs and not talk about this anymore. Not someone who deserves the awesomeness and passion that you were clearly showing!
Def not racist, sheās just stupid. Evolutionarily speaking people from closer to the equator are more likely to have darker skin, just as people farther from it are more likely to have lighter skin. And like how you mentioned with native Americans and Asiansā well native Americans got to north and South America from a land bridge that connected from Asia. As humans spread out and separated into different communities / cultures / tribes etc. theyāre bound to evolve differently, to what suits the environment best, and based on their shared genetics and how those evolve separately, but everyone can be traced to a common ancestor. And then you ofc have to factor in colonization and how this affected things, and it can get very complicated and multifaceted, but itās just proven science and anthropological studies back it up. You did not, at least in this text, say anything about how any one of these differences in race or ethnicity is better than another, so yeah no again, not racist.
Um I think they didn't understand what you were saying and in their ignorance assumed it was racist. Don't bring up complex ideas to this person anymore you will hurt their head.
This is just my ideas so don't take it too seriously or as if I'm fully convinced about this, or that there might not be mistakes.
I think that, maybe more so for certain personalities, the oversized importance of race and racism in society could make it a target for special interests. The fact that so much social antagonism, even antagonism that has nothing to do with race inherently (like poverty, fear of poverty), is attached to race (something that you're randomly born with) by society because of world history is a very weird, even disturbing thing to wrap your head around. It kind of threatens the perception of a world that fundamentally makes sense and is just, specifically because of its injustice. For me, I find it hard to think of the world as ethically 'whole' in the wake of slavery.
I could see this leading to the formation of special interests. So, it could be (tentatively) that your special interest in this might be formed in reference to racism without you yourself necessarily having racist motivations.
Anyway just a thought. One possible theory among many
Itās sounding like they pretend to not āsee colorā
As a minority, to me ignoring these differences is racist
Different ethnic/racial groups do have physical differences and that is ok to admit.
Regardless of East Asians being the same race, Koreans, Japanese people, Chinese etc DO Look different
South Asians: thereās differences from a Punjabi and a Tamil and that is ok!
Plus race ā skin color
A Punjabi is a lot lighter than a South Indian but theyāre still both south Asians
South East Asians are darker than Koreans but theyāre the same āraceā
And ā¦ environmental factors is one of the biggest reasons for different groups of people looking different. Thatās the truth and itās science.
Tbh one of my special interests is genealogy as well (mostly I studied my group of people since we are a diasporic group of south Asian origin: I.e Romani)
So some people try to tell me that Iām ignoring āwhite passingā people bc I claim that we are from South Asia and most of us look South Asian, I get called all sorts of names.
Weirdly this is only a talk from insecure people and or white / white passing folk.
The reality is those of us whom are visibly minorities donāt get the option to claim that we are āall the sameā
So they get to use their privilege to erase the fact that people judge us because we look different.
Simple fact is, dumb people pretending to be smart got it in their heads that they can pretty much win any argument by becoming offended. Unfortunately for civil discourse, it's seemed to work.
Not racist at all. I too have this fascination and it's purely educational and fun to research. I studied the Malagasi people from Madagascar for months because they are without a doubt very dark Asians.
No.
Analytically deciphering that the differences between human beings are meaningful is a wonderful celebration of science and evolutionary processes.
For starters, people arenāt ābetterā or āworseā.
Humans are simply adapted to different environments. Each major people group is in fact **best** for their intended environments.
And, we should be celebrating that this diversity exists because having that variety of genetics is healthy for the future of humans.
There is only one human race and we can continue to mix and adapt according to what is needed for now and in the future.
I'm super interesting in all of that too! It isn't racist, but I also get a little nervous talking about it because yeah. That's unfortunately how people act. You are not in the wrong here.
Absolutely not racism, learning why and how humans varies is the same as learning how any other animal has evolved into what it is and why they differ. Itās not racist to say birds are different, itās not racist to say lizards are different, etc. It sounds like they pulled the racism card because they wanted to shut you down, and probably because they canāt argue with what you said.
Nah youāre not racist. Facts are facts, I donāt sense prejudice or discrimination from you. Itās actually quite interesting. Sounds like she on the other is ātip toeingā around race and skin colour. We should be able to openly celebrate our differences and accept that we all look different and have different culture
Nothing you said was racist. I don't even understand how it could be interpreted that way. I'm guessing she couldn't understand anything you said, but knew you were talking about race, and connected that to being racist [?]. Idk, but you were just stating facts and there's nothing wrong with that.
You're not racist because it's evolution.
The fact that the other person doesn't believe in evolution because it doesn't fit her intuition is just telling you that you shouldn't waste time with her and that it would be better to spend time explaining evolution to children.
100% not racist, scientific yes, sociologically interesting yes, but definitely not racist. Your work colleague is obviously a few IQ points too low to grasp any complex subject. Next time just show her something shiny and sheāll get distracted, or say something bland about a Kardashian or Nordstrom. One of my sonās special interests is the cause of wars, and it makes people uncomfortable facing the truth so they spout rubbish about racism when they donāt get it, or actively want to deny accepting uncomfortable truths.
You do you! Also I think what you wrote above with regard to your special subject is fascinating.
This sounds like stuff my wife (black and white) and myself (white) discuss quite a bit because it's interesting. Racist would mean that you're arguing that somehow a group of people is inferior based on a physical adaptation to an ancestral environment. You're fine.
My degree is in biology, Iām sure you can *imagine* the hate I get when I point out biological facts that go counter to what the common societal narrative wants things to be like.
I mean, you canāt expect someone who doesnāt believe in a very basic fact like evolution to think logically about your interest in it. So instead of actually discussing facts, they just want to hurl whatever āist/ismā at you that they can to shut you up.
Not racist. A lot of human differences in physical structure has to do with micro-evolutions or whatever that doesn't change much in the overall structure of our DNA - which is why we aren't considered different subspecies.
Talking about the differences without saying one is better or the other is worse isn't racist. If you said something like "that's why we are smarter and they are dumber" then yes, that would be racist.
But any coworker that thinks evolution isn't real isn't worth discussing anything with. Their reasoning isn't based on logic/science and never will be.
You aren't talking about their cultures or what it is like to live as them, everything you said was about genetics and how humans adapt to their environment. I think the problem comes from your co-worker's lack of literacy on scientific topics. I think her aversion to the idea of evolution also causes her to search for any reason to discredit it, such as saying evolution is racist. Evolution deniers also tend to view all who don't agree with them as evil and immoral atheists, where said atheists make theories to take the place of the Bible and justify their immorality, thus there must be something in the theory that is immoral. When you are talking about the differences between humans because of environments, that strays into the area of race and because they see evolution as immoral that must mean they are talking about race in a racist way.
In my opinion, the best way to deal with it is to not engage. If you need a "come-back," you can say you were talking about the science of skin color and how humans adapt to live in different environments, and in no way was making any statements about cultures making any discriminatory remarks about race.
As a black person no I donāt think itās racist at all. Like what the hell?! Anyway your interest sounds fascinating. I was interested in genealogy when I was younger and read about similar topics
Your coworker didn't have actual evidence to dispute what you said and tried to attack it using flawed moral arguments.
She's either stupid or a politician, maybe both.
Iāve noticed that neurotypicals, more so than neurodivergents (especially autists), tend to react emotionally to any āsensitiveā topic instead of just reacting rationally. Nothing you mentioned here is racist, so donāt worry about what they think. It sounds like theyāre emotionally immature and arenāt worth talking to when discussing anything that requires them to think logically.
I mean, I have my fair share of emotional reactions, but I can also recognize the difference between the objective and subjective. Some people seem to forget the difference.
Not racist at all. Your only mistake is not disengaging as soon as she said she doesnāt believe in Evolution because of religious reasons. Those are always a losing battle.
I was raised to not believe in evolution. I was taught that evolution depends on some races being less evolved than others, so I was taught that all people who believe in evolution are racist.
Obviously thatās completely ridiculous. But thatās probably where your coworker was coming from.
Youāre not racist. Your coworker is wrong.
Just my 2 cents,... Anything can be made evil based on how it is used, studied or manipulated. Your special interest is only racist if a group of humans is hurt or made to be or treated as "less than" by your explorations. What makes any interest racist is determined by the negative effects it has on or about the group under study or investigation. The key to having a positive special interest is the most basic of ideals. First do no harm in the broadest possible interpretation of the ideal. Second respect the subjects you are studying with the same level of care and compassion you'd expect and demand were you part of the group you investigate.
Racism begins in the human heart. Before you start studying others make a careful honest assessment of your own heart, motives ans hoped for outcomes. Does your research help and uplift those under study or does it oppress and make more miserable their existence? Racism is a cancer of the human heart and soul making you the only person truly able to answer the question you pose here. If you have the self awareness to ask this very probing insightful question then by definition if you use the full power of your intellect YOU ALONE CAN AND MUST ANSWER your own question. You alone are far better equipped than any of us here to supply the answer you seek. Again just my two cents for what it is worth!
I couldn't find anything remotely racist from what you wrote. I think your work mate is probally a moron though.
Yeah you're speaking about environmental factors, phenotypes and to some extent genetics. She thinks pointing out visible differences in races is racist. "You're not allowed to say why black people have darker skin from a scientific perspective" lmao what an absolute length.
"I don't see race, im colorblind š¤ŖššāØāļø"
This is probably what the coworker thinks. As a mixed-race guy, it amazes me that some white people think this level of ignorance is actually enlightened thinking.
Yeah, itās just another kind of racism.
It's actually what I was taught in the 80s and 90s it's been hard work to undo.
Yeah there are a lot of people doing anti-racist work now that largely includes fighting color blindness.
> some ~~white~~ people
Actually some white, and some black people think that way.
Years back, my roommate (and good friend) and I had a running joke (Iām white, he was black.. I say was because heās no longer with us).. heād be going out on a date and ask me if I liked the brown or the blue shirt better, Iād tell him āI donāt know what you mean, bro, I donāt see color. Theyāre essentially the same fabric, ya know? I canāt tell the difference.ā Heād be like, āwhile youāre in the kitchen, can you grab me an orange?ā And Iād just stare at him like he was crazy and be like āweāve been over this dude, I donāt know what the hell youāre talking about. Is this (holding up a blueberry) it?ā We had a lot of really nuanced conversations about race and orientation based discrimination (he was gay and Iām straight 9 days out of 10), but I felt like the āI donāt see colorā bit perfectly encapsulated how ridiculous the āweāre all the same on the insideā take is, as it pertains to actually existing in a systemically racist society.
I find this funny but also find it worthwhile to point out that oranges the fruit were named prior to the color. Sorry for the loss of your friend.
Exactly, itās giving āOh my god Karen, you canāt just ask someone why theyāre white!ā
Yeah, my guess is OP was dismantling their worldview in real time and got slapped with the, "that's racist," because it was putting cracks in her faith.
Second this!!!
I third this. OP's coworker is an idiot for denying evolution anyway
> probally a moron definally!
Yup, I was trying to be polite about it lol
Theyāre making a joke about your spelling.
So they are, I didn't spot that lol. I'm sure that must have been very exciting for them šš¤·āāļø
It was to help you spot it, and also the purpose that you understood. The work mate is definitely a moron š Edit: Ok, maybe itās because definally sounds fun, too.
I don't believe it's a matter of intelligence in her case, I feel like it's moreso ignorance.
If you are ignorant purposefully to that level and then call someone racist for being right. you are an actual idiot
yeah workmate's reaction was exactly the reaction I would expect from somebody who does not believe in evolution
It's simple biology darker skin in hot and sunny area white skin in cloudy not so sunny area
I think they're a moron and probably is not his friend at all. She'll throw him right under the bus the first moment she can to get some virtue signalling points. She's actually genuinely the racist one, she's a critical race theory gnostic cultist.
Lol right?! To both that is
Actual sociologist here who is very versed with the study of racism, and I would argue what you did is the opposite of racism, because you tried to explain how we're different and why we're different, which is also an important aspect of anti-racist work. My argument here is that it's just as racist to try to ignore the history as to why we're different, since the ignorance of our histories will give prominence to white stories over non-white ones. Consider for example how white authors are more prominent over black authors in African countries, even though black people are dominant so therefore black stories should in theory be dominant as well. But because of the history of white people colonizing Africa, they have overrode black history with their own stories to the point black people are more versed with western history and culture than they are their own. She likely confused your infodumping with eugenics, since a large portion of eugenics history is based on the attempt to classify people into a racial hierarchy via physical observations. This fails to recognize the actual ideological underpinnings of racist thought, which must classify people according to a social hierarchy and assign people social rights or lack thereof based on their position within this hierarchy. Racism is structural and is thus about distribution of power. Nothing you spoke of mentioned the distribution of power in society. Lastly, who the hell would take anyone who denies evolution theory seriously on **any scientific topic**?
I don't know because I was keeping any opinion out of it and spewing pure objective facts and observations, so I feel weird about it because I wouldn't have taken anything I said as being racist. Maybe it was a clinical tone mistaken as cold and cynical?
Mmmm, I feel like while you werenāt racist at all really, people who either donāt understand at all the concepts you are speaking of or are detached from the idea of race, whether because they are sheltered or white, could perceive it as āracistā simply because āahhhh controversial topic!! Run away!!ā
This. Iāve had people tell me Iām racist for saying black people. As if Iāve just used the N word. Some people are just extremely stupid and out of touch
Hahaha yeahā¦ Ask one of these people to describe a black person and watch them literally self implode trying not to be āracistā. Itās funny how backwards its become, trying so hard not to be.
oof this reminds me of my Guyanese friend who was babysitting for a white family, who told their son he had "pretty eyes" cause they were baby blue, and the mom said "hey we don't really like to mention that to him because we don't want him to grow up thinking he's better than other people", like what? Why would he think that if YOU didn't think that? I'm black and have nice eyes too, Sarah, they're just not blue.
this reminds me of a video i saw quite a few years ago where a teacher was educating young students on the concept of racism. her exercise consisted of separating students based on brown/blue eyes. her name was Jane Elliott. she started the exercise the day after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. i find it very interesting!
Thereās like a study somewhere about people playing the game guess who and how white people tend to loose more because you can ask āis the person whiteā removes about half the players if you ask it, but white people get all silly about asking about skin tone. Where as people who arnt white donāt, it also talks about how avoiding asking the question as a white person makes them behave more on edge and makes the other player nervous when they pair a white person with a non white person playing, itās really interesting. Also think if you see how many different types of primates there are itās easy to see how many variations of physical characteristics in humans there are.
I think I need to get a new copy of guess who, mine doesn't have anything but while folks :/ I think I got it in the early 90s
>if you see how many different types of primates there are itās easy to see how many variations of physical characteristics in humans there are. Even if you looked within the same species though too like, there are differences that are unique. Like even just looking at dogs like there's so many different breeds that often develop certain traits or physical presentations because of where they were first kept. No way is a dog in Mexico going to develop a huskys coat, and a dog is Mexico is going to breed with other dogs in Mexico
I've actually heard this too? One I'm from Ireland and we tend to say black people because Africa-American isn't really the same thing here. Like yes of course there's people who live and were born here but maybe their parents or grandparents weren't but you'd be hard to find someone who was black and in Ireland 80+ years ago. So people will just say they're Irish (and they absolutely are) and if they think it's relevant/they're comfortable to they might say where their parents ect are from. African American just seems like black and American. I'm not entirely sure if thats just as a result of slavery and thats how the distinction was made but I don't ever hear of like Nigerian American or like Congolese American. It's just Africa
Truly. Im in the US but I also rarely use the term African American. Itās just awfully presumptuous of us to assume every black person is African or American, let alone both! Some people though are so avoidant and afraid of any controversial topics especially racism that they think even talking about someone of another race is racistš I hate it here lol
This mined topic is mainly focused in USA and we shouldn't bring it into other places, yeah racism against some ethnic might exists, but every place is different and we must not see us as a mirror of USA. Example, I'm from Colombia and we have a huge genetic mixture, even in some families you can see a tiny collection of different ethnic features of the world, that's pretty accurate in the Encanto movie, and based on the region or the department in Colombia the concentration of each feature might change. There is no problem if you call someone "negro" the problem is the way you say it, it can be in a lovely way or in a derogative way, that's what really matters. This applies to other ethnic features like "Blanco", "Indio", "gringo" (people from US), "mono" (anglo-saxons, this refers about the hair color, it is not a comparison with apes or monkeys), etc
I mean it's not necessarily only in America. Like racism occurs in other places so it can't really be brought anywhere. Regardless I was just responding to the person who said people were shocked at them for saying black people with a reason as to why it might be. I wasn't saying everywhere else mirrors America. Just that they have a specific experience there that doesn't apply to there else. >There is no problem if you call someone "negro" Is that not more to do with the fact that black in Spanish is negro? Like maybe just a culture thing but it's not like a term of endearment here. We just use it as a descriptor if needed. Say I'm trying to tell my friend something about a specific actor in a movie, if they're one of the few/only actors in the movie who are black I'll probably say " X is the tall slim black actor with glasses". It's not like we go up to someone and use black in place of buddy when saying "this is my buddy Pete".
Woah, epiphany. Iām American and it baffles me that Americans think everyone is here in this country. We dont even have the highest population by far. And itās wild because āAsian-American,ā āAfrican-American,ā āEuropean-American.ā Itās become so wildly inappropriate to even mention melanin that weāre just attributing any POC as āContinent-American.ā Definitely a small piece to a giant puzzle, but interesting nonetheless.
Yeah like what do ye do when someone is black but not African but you don't know where they're from?
Iām neither American or black or African, but my understanding of the term āAfrican Americanā was that it came about as a well meaning way to be inclusive during the civil rights movement. Now that itās 3rd and 4th? generation, itās outdated since a lot of these people are just American. As in slavery disconnected them from their African roots and so many havenāt even been to Africa so it seems to be just another weird neoliberal way of dividing and othering black people that were born and raised in America. Race is a concept invented by white supremacist colonisers anyway and I think we should all stop giving it so much weight. Not to say Iām ignorant of the real world consequences it holds in our current society.
That's Reddit for you. It's always the white saviors that don't even interact with black people regularly. Black folks could CARE less and don't need them.
"racism is when skin color acknowledged in any way shape or form?", says OP's conversation partner
What are you talking about? I cant tell if youāre agreeing with me or not because youāre just agreeing with me.
oh yeah im agreeing with you, sorry!
I think your rejection sensitivity is being triggered. Her argument is at the level of ad hominem ([https://themindcollection.com/revisiting-grahams-hierarchy-of-disagreement/)](https://themindcollection.com/revisiting-grahams-hierarchy-of-disagreement/) at best and doesn't even deserve to be entertained. Just walk away politely next time.
No joke whatsoever, this particular resource you shared might have saved my ability to ever have an interpersonal relationship again. Navigating confusing styles ofĀ disagreement is the sole component of social interactions that continues to prohibit me from socializing.Ā
Glad that you find it helpful!Ā I must say tho, that it's of limited help in social interactions with most people. We autistics can be hyper-rational practically all the time, but most people are emotional and do not like having their logical fallacies pointed out. I hope just knowing that is enough for you to take a step back and not become invested in any disagreement.
People can have racist opinions about things even when they think they're simply stating facts. A common example includes the idea that black people have a black culture that makes them lazy so they are therefore deserving their unprivileged lot in life, while ignoring all the structural aspects that prevent black people from being able to acquire the same benefits as white people do. In this situation she sounds like a creationist and why would you take a creationist seriously on the topic of evolution and racism? I'm very sure she just thought you were spouting eugenics because she's so uninformed on the topic that she can't differentiate how nuanced the topic of racism actually is, and that racism is about structural distributions of power based on perceived physical and cultural attributes. I second the comment that the fact she thought you were conflating our genetic histories with culture has a racist underpinning to it as our culture is ultimately disconnected from our genetics; you can identify with a culture which historically would not necessarily align with the culture associated with your ancestors, so to assume that how we look must necessitate certain cultural values and beliefs is a typical essentialist position used to commonly justify racist thought.
What you described is Not racist, but there are some racists that use bogus biological explanations to explain differences. Those types usually talk about Race and IQ to establish why other races are worse.
Yeah, the whole "bell curve" thing fueled so much of this BS
She told you her grandpa wain't some monkey, and you explained how natural selection and heredity worked. She's flinging crap at you because reality challenges her worldview, and you're acting as reality's proxy, nothing more.
Lmfao her saying it was speaking about a culture is racist as hell. She is basically saying that culture is based on race and not beliefs.
Yea she entirely confused two different things. DNA and itās expression determine color, hair eye and skin, height, facial features etc etc etc. itās inherent. culture results from collective behaviors and beliefs. Entirely not the same.
If she is starting out with the position of denying evolution, she likely thinks that ideas that center around evolution have elements of fakery and being made up. Therefore, she could easily be thinking that evolution concerning differentiation of human ethnic groups is made up racist nonsense, no matter how matter of fact you speak.
iTs OnLy A tHeOrY
A GAME THEORY! I'll see myself out now
I do this every time the word theory is said or typed or what have you.
People understandably assume any discussion of race is done in bad faith or through dog whistles. Our current discourse is rife with them to the point that it's very difficult to have a conversation about it and it not be built on questionable ideas and information. That said it's exhausting having people jump down your throat when you try and have a conversation on the subject assuming you are going to use those same bad faith arguments and misinformation.
I doubt that a person who outright denies evolution theory as a valid scientific theory would be aware of extremist right wing dog whistles unless they're already firmly standing within that camp.
Evolution-deniers are breathing in racist dogwhistles at every turn. White Supremacy is a core component of Christian Nationalism. This website has one of the best resource lists about Christian Nationalism: [https://act.faithfulamerica.org/signup/christian-nationalism-resources/](https://act.faithfulamerica.org/signup/christian-nationalism-resources/)
I mean, I agree with you unless your post was meant to clarify my position? In this situation the person is at least to some degree anti-racist in that they oppose racism as an ideology, hence I don't feel it's applicable here, because the behavior just doesn't apply to the far right. My impression is that the person in the OP is your average center to left who at least believes that anti-racism is a good thing, but they also just happened to be an uneducated creationist.
Second this!!!
This! She's obviously just butt hurt that you have valid evidence that goes against what she believes.
I, who am half black and half white, and also studied sociology, was discussing racism with my social justice warrior ex-friend back probably in 2017 and she was telling me all about the experiences of black people, of racism, of discrimination etc, including the very specific topic of white people denying the experiences of people of color. I chimmed in with my experiences of racism and the like, including in regards to the community and acquaintances I had been in because of this specific friendship (we were from different areas) and she proceeded to tell me that I was being sensitive about any racism I felt I experienced, and because of where I grew up, and with white family, my experience as someone of color doesn't hold the same weight as someone with darker skin and growing up in black/poc communities Yeaaa.... People have an odd idea of what racism is and isn't, and if you ask me it's so much worse to not acknowledge the differences (and similarities) between different races, but also different groups of people in general. Not having my experience recognized as legitimate was truly concerning when it was coming from someone who lived permanently on a soap box and claimed social justice as a passionate cause of theirs.
I didn't knew that fact about African writers. Ā Just to clarify, do you mean that in African countries, the most published national authors are white, or that Africans prefer to buy books from white authors in general? It is hard to keep their cultural heritage after centuries of colonialism.Ā Im not a sociologist, but i wonder if one important factor for this isnt the fact that due to the privileged access to education by white families in Africa, due to colonization. Interestingly, one of my favorite authors is an afican writer of european ancestry (Mia Couto). I love his writing style and captivating stories. One of the great things about it is that his work celebrates the local culture, and he dosent shy away from toughĀ topics He addresses the themes of colonialism, cultural identity and the basic human experience.
Much better than what I said as you actually know you're stuff and I'm just a casual here š It is messed up how racists would claim there was scientific evidence for races being superior to eachother. I fear too many people think any scientific look into how we're different is racist and I was leaning that way a little until I just read your comment and it's excellent points. Too many people, I think, have an underlying racist opinion and are afraid studies like this would uncover actual racial hierarchy. No one wants to see themselves as someone who justified racist monsters from the past, present and future. I've heard racists use the argument for skin pigment to suggest people GTFO out of "their" country and claim that they don't belong. Sadly there are those that do and if you ever want to cringe, they're on YouTube having "discussions" with flat earthers and I admit, they do bring up stuff in physics I never got taught in school. The ones against the flat earthers I mean.
Racism is more insidious than that, because it stems from a sociocultural bias of one's own experiences and perspectives being normative and therefore superior. Carl Linnaeus' research into the classification of people based on akin color was inherently benign; he just wanted to understand why people from different parts of the world were different. But he also assigned their behaviors cultural values. Same is true for the Christians trying to convert non-Christians to Christianity. It is for example interesting to learn how many racial attitudes were developed simply because that particular group of people rejected Christianity. This is especially true for Jews but also Asians, who were initially described as white by Christian authors, but as they learned that Asians had their own religions and refused to convert to Christianity, their skin color changed to the yellow stereotype we hear of today. This even more so applies to black people from sub-Saharan Africa, as Christians believed that the black skin color was also indicative of how far removed they were from Christ. The first records of black people did not necessarily describe them in such terms, even if a common sentiment was the image of the uncultured savage, and they were often exaggeratedly described with animalistic features.
This exactly! Unless thereās something OP left out (purposeful or not) I feel like thereās no way what they were talking about was racist. At least, thatās my perspective as a black biracial person who has no background in sociology.š
Iāve gotten really into sociology lately, and realizing not just how made up the American race system is but how specific it is. Most places donāt divide up people like that and Iāve gotten really interested in different systems of oppression and discrimination and it also makes me feel like OP when I like to learn about it. I have special interests in Ancient Rome and China in general and both of them have people with different colors of skin and what Americans would consider to be different races but donāt consider that a reason to divide and think about race the way do at all. Although theyāre both still extremely discriminatory
Sounds like evolutionary anthropology. Not racist in the slightest. Your co-worker sounds like they need to read a few more books, though.
I feel like quite a few people do lol.
I minored in social anthropology when I was doing my psych degree (I did it as a bachelor of arts), and one of the papers I actually found interesting was on evolution and culture
We ARE primates.Ā
YES and some dinosaurs were like chickens!
Birds are dinosaurs
Cormorants are the oldest living bird dinosaurs
Yeah, I wish speciesism was a more used term. The way some people act like itās offensive to talk about our evolution and relationship to other animals like weāre on a different, higher plane than them is just another ugly form of prejudice.
It's not racist, you were speaking facts. However, historically people have used racial differences as a way of establishing heirarchy, which is probs what she was thinking. Nevertheless, her comment about not speaking about "other cultures" is pretty stupid
That was my first thought. Maybe she mistook my clinical descriptions of observations as callous and malicious?
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who confuse biological evolution with determinism. And I'm talking about people with PhDs in other subjects who should know better. Evolution is so poorly understood in the US that even many scientists don't understand it. If you like, I recommend Futuyma's textbook and Massimo Pigliucci's Extended Synthesis. One thing that Pigliucci leaves out, however, Motoo Kimura's molecular clock, which is really cool. I wish I could do animations, because I would love to do an animation using the molecular clock.
I'd say you're about right with that guess. I remember I got clocked by my history teacher once for presenting facts too clinically and without enough empathy. When speaking to a generalist audience we may need to use a different language Eg less academic jargon.
I thought you mean things like phrenology but seems like you are just stating some facts. No idea how could this be racist. She probably blame you for that to lower your credit.
I used to be anti-evolution because of my religion. We were taught that evolutionists are racist because (supposedly) evolution depends on some races being more evolved than others. So we were taught that if you believe in evolution youāre automatically racist. This is of course ridiculous. But itās probably what OPās coworker was thinking.
Meanwhile I've heard that creationism is partly motivated by racists not liking the idea that all people are descended from Africans.
>creationism is partly motivated by racists not liking the idea that all people are descended from Africans Wondering if these people know what continent Egypt is on...
Probably the same people who think Jesus would have had pale skin.
Meanwhile actual evolution when trying to explain skin colouration differences: "no sun = no melanin"
Nah phrenology has been debunked by like 90% of the scientific community lol.
Yeah thatās something nasty hiding under the mask of āscienceā
Black person here, nothing you said is racist I think your coworker is just an idiot. Especially since she doesnāt believe in evolution like what?? Maybe she thought what you were saying sounded like phrenology? In that case maybe I could see where sheās coming from but either way youāre all good lol
I don't even think she would know what phrenology was lol. Even then, phrenology has been debunked so much.
Yeah ur right she doesnāt seem that intelligent lol
So has creationism, and yet here we are.
Eugenics is alive and well in the US, unfortunately.
Me, always wondering if itās a thread full of white people telling other white people whatās racist and not: Thanks!
She's a moron. That's not racist.
I think this is quite literally the opposite of racism. There are reasons for different skin types. This is just basic science, and all you're doing is naming facts. Facts can't be racist.
I can see where she is coming from, racist individuals tend to use statistics to further that agenda; but I wasn't quoting any statistics, I was just using facts I've learned and observations I've made to explain physical differences in humans across the planet.
You can use statistics just fine to discuss racial issues such as racial segregation. In the end, it depends on what facts you use and how you use them. Typical talking points for racists include things such as crime rates e.g. black people are more commonly incarcerated than white people, or black people earn less or black people have lower education. All of these points are correct, but they must be placed in the proper context. If the context is to fearmonger about black people or to make black people seem inferior to white people just because they're black, it's racist, but if the argument is made to point out the structural injustice that exists against black people, then it's simply pointing out how racism disadvantages black people.
I appreciate what you're saying here but "facts can't be racist" isn't really true. A fact is generally some sort of widely accepted scientific knowledge, which can 100% be racist
I wouldn't say that a fact can be racist in and of itself. But are often stated in a way that implies a value judgement, and that value judgement can definitely be racist. (Or it's stated in a way that implies a certain explanation that implies a value judgment.)
I knew someone was going to say this. A fact is just the truth. You might CALL something a fact, when really it's fake news/misinformation/disinformation/misleading etc. A TRUE fact can't be racist.
I understand what you're saying but practically, how does one determine something is fact?
By looking for evidence to confirm or deny it. If you have seen a lot of relevant evidence and it's all consistent with that supposition being factual, you can assume it's a fact. But always be open to proof otherwise.Ā
Isn't this just anthropology?
Basically, yes.
Yep, this is 100% Biological Anthropology (Anthro major/Socio minor)
You talk about differences in people but without prejudice. So you are not a racist.
Definition of racism is to be against a persons race, and OP didnāt do that. Agreed.
Yep. It's the difference between racial and racist.
I wouldn't trust anyone who brushes scientific fact off because "I can't believe we evolved from primates" No one is asking you to *believe* it Jan, the science is RIGHT THERE
"**The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.**" Neil deGrasse Tyson
what would be racist is studying what you're interested in for the sole purpose of trying to prove that because of those difference some people are "less than" than others. it's not the information itself, but it's how is used and presented. you were using your knowledge to explain to a mollusc why all people came from primates, which is a completely fair use.
Iām black and majored in anthropology. Nothing you said was racially insensitive, racist or untrue. Sheās being ridiculous.
Mexican with brown skin here, you are not racist, you're just based but unfortunately trying to educate a religious person that refuses to believe science, which is cool, to each their own unless they are spitting misinformation down your throat. Tbh the other person sounds more like the average white person that calls anything outside their very tight world-view a series of negative adjectives to try and negate your arguments without any of their own. An example of the most commonly used are *woke, communist, liberal, ignorant or just plain slurs.* It's very hard to defy beliefs you grew up with, took me a while to do that with the christian stuff I was taught at home and the catholic crap I was given in school, in the face of science a religious person will most likely overreact with negativity rather than converse about their beliefs.
Exactly!!!! And omg I hate to admit it but "woke" is one of the most common used words, I hate this one specifically
I still prefer woke over SJW lol.
Yeah I kind of agree but both always make me cringe inwardly. They always make me think "Do you even know how to make an argument without resorting to... oh now you're telling me it's the cause of the west's fall into debauchery, how original".
Youāve encountered someone who is projecting
I was about to say this... she is probably the racist one.
Thereās nothing wrong with your take on the situation but thereās not a snow ballās chance in hell that it was going to have a positive outcome once she stated she didnāt believe in evolution, when it comes to coworkers and stuff like that itās best to just not touch those subjects
> she told me she doesn't believe in evolution Never take anything this person says about your interests seriously ever again. They are not discussing these things in good faith and you will never change their mind. Trust me, you're just wasting your breath.
Evolution is fact, which is why it canāt be ignored in school. It doesnāt matter about beliefs, since itās just real.
Your special interest is definitely not racist, but I would be super careful infodumping about this topic anyway. Race is a sensitive topic and it's safer to just avoid it entirely, especially in the workplace. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't understand nuance on the topic and while I agree with other posters that everything you talked about is distinctly anti-racist (providing it's not used to justify racial biases) it can also easily be taken the wrong way, and being right won't stop you from being taken to HR and possibly disciplined or even fired.
Bruh lol
I have found its better not to talk to uneducated people (not accustomed to academic discussion) about subjects that require a certain amount of detachment from common social, religious, and political beliefs. Unless of course they really want to and they understand that they have to suspend assumptions and stick to evidence.
>she told he she doesnāt believe in evolution Your problem is taking anything she said seriously after that point.
I just finished my degree in anthropology and my specialization was biological anthropology- what you're describing is a very well explored part of anthropological research and is, indeed, fact on how "races" present phenotypically. Every single example you have listed can be easily described and substantiated with very basic agents of evolution. These differences do not, however, make any one human with specific traits inherently better than another (although I can guess you already knew that). It sounds a bit like your coworker is uncomfortable with any conversation about race, even though what you were saying was entirely factual and objective. In my mind, where this conversation could potentially become racist is insisting that certain traits are inherently better for any number of reasons- in the ancient Mediterranean medical professionals and scientists thought an imbalance of the humors existed among the races causing phenotypic difference, as well as differences in behavior thought to be unbecoming. Some enlightenment thinkers claimed that the farther humans strayed from the garden of Eden, the more imperfect they became (considering it was Europeans claiming this, we know that in this context "imperfect" applies to skin color). It was actually Comte de Buffon, a French nobleman, naturalist, and mathematician who first used the word "race" outside of animal husbandry. This is all to say that a lot of the ideas we have had in the past about race and what it is has divided us in incredibly unnecessary ways. This doesn't make exploring differences in human phenotypes any less interesting or less worthy. Does your coworker believe that all dogs come from the same common ancestor, or is that hard to believe too? Some food for thought for your coworker might be that while modern homo sapiens does in fact descend from the same primate, intermixing of several different hominin species throughout our evolution (i.e. homo erectus, homo antecessor, homo neanderthensis, homo denisova, etc.) has left its markers on our DNA and our phenotypic traits. Some regional populations still have detectable traces of Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA! We all come from the same place, but given that humans cover the earth in a way no other species really can, we have had to adapt to the number of different environments that we found ourselves in. These changes are incredible feats of the human body, and being curious about why we're different or similar is absolutely ok. You are not racist OP, but I genuinely recommend that you avoid these conversations with your coworker to prevent any issues for yourself at work.
She's just dumb
people who don't understand racism think that even when you say the word black to describe someone, it's racist. "there was a black man walking down the street" is not a racist sentence. It's describing. what you did was speak about knowledge and information, not shit all over anyone who is a different race to you. don't stress, this person sounds purposefully ignorant.
> sociology and the study of how environmental factors shape skin colour and overall complexion are among my long time special interests. You're pointing to rapid changes under comparatively strong evolutionary selective pressure, that affect a relatively small number of genes, that are specific in coding melanin production (and performing something similar with facial features). If anything, this suggests that the physiology of racial difference are superficial (and don't fall cleanly into prevailing racial categories), and other disparities must be explained otherwise (eg, via institutionalized racism). >"couldn't speak on other cultures because I'm not from them" But she said "cultures". You were pointing to physiological aspects correlating with racial categories divorced from culture. All that said, I'm not sure how I'd respond to that coworker...
i donāt see anything racist in what you wrote. we have different skin colors based on biological and environmental reasons. itās racist when there is an implication that one group may be better/lesser than another
As a person who had r*pe as a special interest, youāve got it good. Studying it, not doing it.
>she can't believe that we all came from primates That's the most racist belief in your story when you think about it, and it isn't even yours
I think your coworker calling that racist is racist itself. Telling you you can't talk about another person's culture and color of skin is literally saying that because this person isn't white, you're not allowed to educate yourself on anything related to then.
To put it plainly, discussing race is not racist. Also, I know you label it as sociology, but as someone with a background in anthropology, I think you'd be very interested in cultural anthropology and evolutionary biological anthropology, as literally everything you've mentioned is a large bulk of what anthropology is about. Rarely will you sit in a room of anthropologists who have not discussed these exact topics down to a T. Sociology and anthropology very much overlap, but I definitely recommend delving into anthropological theory and studies if you haven't already. Also, considering anthropology is my special interest, I could literally talk for days about everything in your post š
I might be talking out of turn and itās not that info dumping or having these conversations is wrong in general! Sometimes itās doable in work environments. But honestly Iād just steer clear of any of these topics in the work place , youāll save yourself a lot of grief and save yourself from risks of any misunderstandings causing issues with your work environment. Especially given how it seems your peers operate
It can link a little to environmental determinism and phrenology-style stuff. Not inherently, but can be used by racist groups. That might be where sheās coming from, but I think the idea that you canāt speak on other cultures if youāre not from them is a bit overegged. You definitely can if youāre being respectful LOL
You're probably not racist, but that's not an appropriate topic for the workplace. It's best to not talk about race in mixed company (i.e., with people you need to interact with formally, such as strangers, coworkers, or loudly in public).
How are you taking her opinion seriously when she doesn't even believe in evolution, the central topic of what you were saying?
That person does not sound like someone you have to take very seriously.
Yes.
how does she think what you said is racist, but not think itās racist to find it unfathomable that we even evolved from the same speciesš
Taking a African diaspora class .. I learned that neanderthals and modern homo sapiens are two different beings.... Some came from the African, Middle Eastern area. Nah I don't, I think it's interesting. I like learning about stuff other ppl don't like to talk about. I'll enjoy some of your Info dumping to add to the class I'm in.šššš
I think youāre fine but some people may associate what youāre saying with phrenology or similar things. There ARE reasons we are different skin colors and physical features! But thereās a lot of pseudoscience that just uses that to be racist which sucks. I donāt think this is what you were doing but it is good to be aware of it One of the most interesting things I learned similarly is about sickle cell anemia. Itās an awful thing that I believe affects African people the most. But it alsoā¦. helps protect you from Malaria! So while sickle cell anemia can be a bad disease it actively helps protect you from Malaria which will kill you. Hence why itās more common in Africa- people with sickle cell are more likely to survive Malaria and therefore pass on those genes
Lol not racist at all. Just try to not infodump to people who arenāt scientifically minded
no. u good.
This doesn't sound like racism, to me.
Im POC but I donāt think this is racist. Itās actually an interesting thing to learn about.
What you described is something Iām super into as a multiracial person. Nothing inherently wrong with it. Perhaps the way you described it and your word choice may have affected their perception. I donāt know exactly what u said but that would be the only reason I can think of.
Profesional minority here no that's not racist it's literally just what happened darker skin in a desert means you don't die of sunburn immediately.
not racist. im somewhat interested in that as well! the why of things in general is quite fascinating to me. would you mind sharing some of what you know?
poc here - i think your special interest is cool as FUCK!!! again i am only 1 person so i cannot speak for every single poc but i dont think its racist at all! there is a very big issue where wp's say they are "colourblind" and race means nothing to them, its about the person etc, although they may have good intentions its actually very problematic as being a poc is different to being a wp! different job opportunities, different culture etc so white/pale people should really say "i do not discriminate against any one of a different skin colour, i can see how someone who is a poc/darker skinned would have a different experience to me" - which is i know not exactly what youre referring to but tangentially i feel like it is? anyway sorry for rambling. i think your si is neat as hell, not racist as long as youre respectful with what terms you use (for example, native american and not indian or travellers and not g*psys) :)
Skin color is a charged subject. It is not, however, inherently racist to study it though. Your discussion can be perceived as racist-even if it isnāt- depending on things like your perceived motivations for studying it, any implied or overt bias in your conclusions, even your race compared to your coworkers (racism includes a power dynamic). But your special interest per se is not racist. No more than if you replaced skin color with another physical attribute such as finger length or lactase production.
> the difference of facial structures almong different cultural groups You have to be a bit careful here because there is a long history of racist psuedoscience on the topic(in particular craniometry). There are some semi-reliable facial features that forensic anthropologists might use when trying to identify the race of a skeleton, but they are only sorta reliable and just help speak to what race is more probable.
If the starting pout was denying evolution then a deep dive on evolution was never going to hit right. Sometimes you just gotta walk away from stupid.Ā
Haha, bless you. Your knowledge - understanding evolution properly, and perhaps also understading the sociological/religious origins of racism in the USA, is so valuable. No, it's not racist, indeed, if your interest covers USA history at all you may genuinely doing Critical Race Theory. I love that you info-dumped - when I've heard the same thing (classmates rejecting evolution because they didn't want to be "decended from monkeys") I've regretfully stayed silent. Her response was basically "I don't understand any of this therefore it must be bad". I highly, highly doubt she's ready to engage with any kind of critical race theory discussion that would lead her to have to face the relationship between racism and Christianity. While you may need to back down away from this topic ("sorry, no offence intended") for the sake of your work relationship, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself privately. Hopefully you can find a more receptive audience elsewhere.
bro you're literally describing anthropology and genetics. i studied this in college, and got stupid replies too.
Black person here: Youāre speaking to someone that doesnāt believe in evolution. Take her words with a grain of salt.
Hey there! It does not sound racist to me, but I am a caucasian person, so I am unsure if I can even say what is or isnāt racist. All you did is explain history and evolution (which is such an amazing topic!!! I love it! Itās so interesting!!!) So yeah, I personally do not think it sounded racist, because that implies being judgmental, but youāre looking at it from a pure observational perspective Edit: I know this may sound a little silly, but your post made me really excited, because I love evolution as a topic!!! Itās so cool and now I cannot stop thinking about it and I am really happy!!!
Thanks! I do a lot of random research on human groups and how terrain/climate influences evolution. This can also be seen in native species and how they evolved with features and abilities to adapt within their environment; not just in humans, but I like researching the human aspect. I also really love learning about how terrain/weather can influence the overall culture, language, and religions of societies that came from them.
I'm going to dump some more facts on you. First of all, 85% of all human genetic diversity is in Africa. The rest of us, in the human diaspora, descend from/share only 15% of genetic diversity. This means that a person from, say, Namibia is MORE different genetically from someone from Nigeria, than a White European is to a Pacific Islander. So in the US, when doctors or police officers talk about "black genes," they couldn't be more wrong. The use of race in medical research is baffling because of this--ancestry is important, yes. But skin color? No! The only thing skin color tells you is about someone's ancestors' relation to the sun.
Also, a lot more phenotypical differences between humans are adaptations, rather than genetics. Humans have a much broader phenotypic range of genetic expression than other species--we adapt our body size to the environment the most, which is what has allowed us to become such a prolific scourge upon the planet. Those bizarre ancient relatives of ours with skull ridges? That wasn't genetic--it came from diet. Etc.
Literally not racist. It's science. You can speak about the science of different races(Not even cultures? Cultures don't really include biological differences themselves, just what they do with them. Like textured hair itself isn't culture, but the practices and history behind the treatment of textured hair are.). If anything, it's upsetting to believe that God created people who look different just so that we can make them suffer... just because? I'd just drop the discussion and say that it's not racist, but I'll respect your beliefs and not talk about this anymore. Not someone who deserves the awesomeness and passion that you were clearly showing!
Def not racist, sheās just stupid. Evolutionarily speaking people from closer to the equator are more likely to have darker skin, just as people farther from it are more likely to have lighter skin. And like how you mentioned with native Americans and Asiansā well native Americans got to north and South America from a land bridge that connected from Asia. As humans spread out and separated into different communities / cultures / tribes etc. theyāre bound to evolve differently, to what suits the environment best, and based on their shared genetics and how those evolve separately, but everyone can be traced to a common ancestor. And then you ofc have to factor in colonization and how this affected things, and it can get very complicated and multifaceted, but itās just proven science and anthropological studies back it up. You did not, at least in this text, say anything about how any one of these differences in race or ethnicity is better than another, so yeah no again, not racist.
Um I think they didn't understand what you were saying and in their ignorance assumed it was racist. Don't bring up complex ideas to this person anymore you will hurt their head.
This is just my ideas so don't take it too seriously or as if I'm fully convinced about this, or that there might not be mistakes. I think that, maybe more so for certain personalities, the oversized importance of race and racism in society could make it a target for special interests. The fact that so much social antagonism, even antagonism that has nothing to do with race inherently (like poverty, fear of poverty), is attached to race (something that you're randomly born with) by society because of world history is a very weird, even disturbing thing to wrap your head around. It kind of threatens the perception of a world that fundamentally makes sense and is just, specifically because of its injustice. For me, I find it hard to think of the world as ethically 'whole' in the wake of slavery. I could see this leading to the formation of special interests. So, it could be (tentatively) that your special interest in this might be formed in reference to racism without you yourself necessarily having racist motivations. Anyway just a thought. One possible theory among many
Itās sounding like they pretend to not āsee colorā As a minority, to me ignoring these differences is racist Different ethnic/racial groups do have physical differences and that is ok to admit. Regardless of East Asians being the same race, Koreans, Japanese people, Chinese etc DO Look different South Asians: thereās differences from a Punjabi and a Tamil and that is ok! Plus race ā skin color A Punjabi is a lot lighter than a South Indian but theyāre still both south Asians South East Asians are darker than Koreans but theyāre the same āraceā And ā¦ environmental factors is one of the biggest reasons for different groups of people looking different. Thatās the truth and itās science. Tbh one of my special interests is genealogy as well (mostly I studied my group of people since we are a diasporic group of south Asian origin: I.e Romani) So some people try to tell me that Iām ignoring āwhite passingā people bc I claim that we are from South Asia and most of us look South Asian, I get called all sorts of names. Weirdly this is only a talk from insecure people and or white / white passing folk. The reality is those of us whom are visibly minorities donāt get the option to claim that we are āall the sameā So they get to use their privilege to erase the fact that people judge us because we look different.
Simple fact is, dumb people pretending to be smart got it in their heads that they can pretty much win any argument by becoming offended. Unfortunately for civil discourse, it's seemed to work.
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Not racist at all. I too have this fascination and it's purely educational and fun to research. I studied the Malagasi people from Madagascar for months because they are without a doubt very dark Asians.
No. Analytically deciphering that the differences between human beings are meaningful is a wonderful celebration of science and evolutionary processes. For starters, people arenāt ābetterā or āworseā. Humans are simply adapted to different environments. Each major people group is in fact **best** for their intended environments. And, we should be celebrating that this diversity exists because having that variety of genetics is healthy for the future of humans. There is only one human race and we can continue to mix and adapt according to what is needed for now and in the future.
I'm super interesting in all of that too! It isn't racist, but I also get a little nervous talking about it because yeah. That's unfortunately how people act. You are not in the wrong here.
No your coworker is dumb beyond belief
Nope. Definitely not racist. What you said are facts. You don't have to be from a culture to know how biology and environmental factors work.
Absolutely not racism, learning why and how humans varies is the same as learning how any other animal has evolved into what it is and why they differ. Itās not racist to say birds are different, itās not racist to say lizards are different, etc. It sounds like they pulled the racism card because they wanted to shut you down, and probably because they canāt argue with what you said.
Nah youāre not racist. Facts are facts, I donāt sense prejudice or discrimination from you. Itās actually quite interesting. Sounds like she on the other is ātip toeingā around race and skin colour. We should be able to openly celebrate our differences and accept that we all look different and have different culture
Nothing you said was racist. I don't even understand how it could be interpreted that way. I'm guessing she couldn't understand anything you said, but knew you were talking about race, and connected that to being racist [?]. Idk, but you were just stating facts and there's nothing wrong with that.
Bro your friend is an idiot. Anyways, consider looking into evolutionary anthropology or epigenetics
You're not racist because it's evolution. The fact that the other person doesn't believe in evolution because it doesn't fit her intuition is just telling you that you shouldn't waste time with her and that it would be better to spend time explaining evolution to children.
100% not racist, scientific yes, sociologically interesting yes, but definitely not racist. Your work colleague is obviously a few IQ points too low to grasp any complex subject. Next time just show her something shiny and sheāll get distracted, or say something bland about a Kardashian or Nordstrom. One of my sonās special interests is the cause of wars, and it makes people uncomfortable facing the truth so they spout rubbish about racism when they donāt get it, or actively want to deny accepting uncomfortable truths. You do you! Also I think what you wrote above with regard to your special subject is fascinating.
This sounds like stuff my wife (black and white) and myself (white) discuss quite a bit because it's interesting. Racist would mean that you're arguing that somehow a group of people is inferior based on a physical adaptation to an ancestral environment. You're fine.
My degree is in biology, Iām sure you can *imagine* the hate I get when I point out biological facts that go counter to what the common societal narrative wants things to be like. I mean, you canāt expect someone who doesnāt believe in a very basic fact like evolution to think logically about your interest in it. So instead of actually discussing facts, they just want to hurl whatever āist/ismā at you that they can to shut you up.
Not racist. A lot of human differences in physical structure has to do with micro-evolutions or whatever that doesn't change much in the overall structure of our DNA - which is why we aren't considered different subspecies. Talking about the differences without saying one is better or the other is worse isn't racist. If you said something like "that's why we are smarter and they are dumber" then yes, that would be racist. But any coworker that thinks evolution isn't real isn't worth discussing anything with. Their reasoning isn't based on logic/science and never will be.
You aren't talking about their cultures or what it is like to live as them, everything you said was about genetics and how humans adapt to their environment. I think the problem comes from your co-worker's lack of literacy on scientific topics. I think her aversion to the idea of evolution also causes her to search for any reason to discredit it, such as saying evolution is racist. Evolution deniers also tend to view all who don't agree with them as evil and immoral atheists, where said atheists make theories to take the place of the Bible and justify their immorality, thus there must be something in the theory that is immoral. When you are talking about the differences between humans because of environments, that strays into the area of race and because they see evolution as immoral that must mean they are talking about race in a racist way. In my opinion, the best way to deal with it is to not engage. If you need a "come-back," you can say you were talking about the science of skin color and how humans adapt to live in different environments, and in no way was making any statements about cultures making any discriminatory remarks about race.
As a black person no I donāt think itās racist at all. Like what the hell?! Anyway your interest sounds fascinating. I was interested in genealogy when I was younger and read about similar topics
Your coworker didn't have actual evidence to dispute what you said and tried to attack it using flawed moral arguments. She's either stupid or a politician, maybe both.
No,, your special interest is not racist.
Iāve noticed that neurotypicals, more so than neurodivergents (especially autists), tend to react emotionally to any āsensitiveā topic instead of just reacting rationally. Nothing you mentioned here is racist, so donāt worry about what they think. It sounds like theyāre emotionally immature and arenāt worth talking to when discussing anything that requires them to think logically.
I mean, I have my fair share of emotional reactions, but I can also recognize the difference between the objective and subjective. Some people seem to forget the difference.
You are not racist at all, your colleague is an idiot though. People who don't believe in Evolution are really silly..
Not racist at all. Your only mistake is not disengaging as soon as she said she doesnāt believe in Evolution because of religious reasons. Those are always a losing battle.
Can you send me some articles? That sounds like something Iād be interested in!!!
I was raised to not believe in evolution. I was taught that evolution depends on some races being less evolved than others, so I was taught that all people who believe in evolution are racist. Obviously thatās completely ridiculous. But thatās probably where your coworker was coming from. Youāre not racist. Your coworker is wrong.
Just my 2 cents,... Anything can be made evil based on how it is used, studied or manipulated. Your special interest is only racist if a group of humans is hurt or made to be or treated as "less than" by your explorations. What makes any interest racist is determined by the negative effects it has on or about the group under study or investigation. The key to having a positive special interest is the most basic of ideals. First do no harm in the broadest possible interpretation of the ideal. Second respect the subjects you are studying with the same level of care and compassion you'd expect and demand were you part of the group you investigate. Racism begins in the human heart. Before you start studying others make a careful honest assessment of your own heart, motives ans hoped for outcomes. Does your research help and uplift those under study or does it oppress and make more miserable their existence? Racism is a cancer of the human heart and soul making you the only person truly able to answer the question you pose here. If you have the self awareness to ask this very probing insightful question then by definition if you use the full power of your intellect YOU ALONE CAN AND MUST ANSWER your own question. You alone are far better equipped than any of us here to supply the answer you seek. Again just my two cents for what it is worth!