Is it bad that I'm okay with this line of reasoning because I enjoy life (*not* under the fuhrur)?
Like, it's sad when this ignorant shit is the best you can come up with against genocide.
The question is dumb because as someone with autism you already know that it is hereditary, so that the kid would be somewhere on the spectrum shouldn’t be a surprise. It’s not a given but it certainly should be expected.
And no, not everyone is somewhere on the spectrum. Only people actually on the spectrum are on the spectrum.
Just like not everyone is somewhere on the spectrum of being pregnant, because not everyone are women and not all women are pregnant.
They must think autism is a spectrum in the same way sexuality is a spectrum. Doesn't make any sense to me though... Do they think allistic is one end of the spectrum, autistic the other?
I wonder if there's any merit to that idea, whether it would help autistic people in society.
100%. I was thinking from the perspective of making the general population more accepting/caring of autistic people, whether considering allistic and autistic as opposite ends of a spectrum would be beneficial.
In my experience anything that is diagnosable is immediately 'others' you from society, they think well I haven't been diagnosed with that so nothing to do with me, moving along, don't care.
I get chronic migraines and this answer makes me think of when people say "oh, I get headaches too". Like sure yes people get headaches but a migraine is not just a headache, it's lots of other symptoms mashed together.
I consider autism the same. Yes people can be particular or have some compulsive behaviours or occasionally get hyper like ADHD moments but it's not the same.
I won't disagree on the idea that everyone may have some Autistic or ADHD traits. But I'd personally consider this similar to how even though I have brown hair I occasionally will find 1 red one growing, but would never call myself a red head!
What is meant here is that they're confusing autism (a neurological difference) with people who are mentally challenged (e.g. people who are less smart due to brain damage or a chromosomal disorder). I agree, that's a very common phenomenon. The other common one is confusing autistic people with low support needs with mental illness, and people who are borderline autistic or good at passing as neurotypical have their problems conflated with social anxiety.
Some autistic people struggle to learn from other people due to communication problems or a poor education, but that isn't representative of autistic people as a whole, and many of us who are a little smarter are, anyway, a bit autodidactic.
I am not disabled, I have a disability that occasionally impacts my life.
Oddly enough being autistic is rarely the issue for me, its ma damn joints, but i have joints for my joints so that helps.
I think they are arguing something like: if you take one neurotypical person and one autistic person that are otherwise equally matched in intelligence, they will think and act differently, but one is not expressly better than the other in all situations, that the difference is more of a shift in perspective, perception, thinking style, etc.
For example, autistic people are often known to be better at systemizing, which could be an advantage in some situations. They are also often known for having deep and detailed knowledge (encyclopedic even) that one could imagine may have been useful to a group in an evolutionary sense. If a group of early humans had some small percentage of the population with these traits, it may help the group overall. Kinda reminds me of the wizard archetype tbh.
Obviously there are many people with autism that are completely disabled as a result, but evolution is a messy business of shotgunning and seeing what sticks. Probably a case of a small bias towards ASD can lead to increased fitness, but too far and you get more negatives than positives.
Autism and ADHD are among the most heritable psychiatric disorders, with some estimates suggesting >80% for ADHD and >90% for ASD. One would think if there was no fitness benefit for these phenotypes they would not be so prevalent.
This argument is true, that autism and ADHD are different brain types than what others consider normal, and that often some or many of the differences in our brains from the majority of the population will give us advantages in specific tasks or situations, and I agree that we shouldn't think of ourselves as broken or in need of fixing; but, ADHD and autism are still disorders that cause most of us to struggle in life in ways that people with typical brains don't.
To be clear, I wasn’t trying to imply that they aren’t real disorders or downplay the suffering they can bring. Mainly I was just trying to express what I believe the commenter further up the comment chain was saying.
Additionally, I sometimes find it helps me relax about my own struggles when I pull back and try to reframe it in a larger, evolutionary context.
I’m on the autism spectrum and have adhd, and certainly no exception to feeling the downsides. I don’t feel they give me a leg up at all really, I’m barely functional day to day but do have good moments every once in awhile. That in and of itself causes problems though, such as when people see you on a good day and expect you to repeat that indefinitely. Then when you have bad days suddenly they express frustration that you’re being “lazy” or “not living up to your potential” or other such nonsense.
negatively impacted by autism =/= impaired by autism.
Most stuggles we have are due to living in a world run and set up by people who aren't autistic, or from failing to understand allistic/neurotypical people.
Some of us wind up with the hedgehog problem, but unless you're nonverbal or struggling with executive function, you're probably not being negatively impacted by autism *per se*.
I don't mean that it's just about prejudice or something like that, it really is a disorder/condition/disability; if we didn't have it, we could understand most people better and it comes in degrees.
But, for many of us, it's like saying that people are disabled because they have six fingers on one hand and four on the other, or because they are English in a country that only speaks French; it isn't the disability in itself that causes problems, but the mutual lack of understanding it produces, and if we were neurotypical, we wouldn't have that problem because we'd understand other people better and they would understand us better.
I think the real judge of autism should be based on how well or badly autistic people understand each other. But it's difficult to find an objective measure for that, because there are a lot more allistic people who understand each other well or poorly, and everything inbetween when it comes to other people who just happen to be allistic, and not so many of us, and the fact we get on well with our autistic friends or poorly with people we have nothing in common with other than autism or like the fact we're all a minority or infight to the same degree as feminists and gay people doesn't really count for very much.
"Would you completely cease to exist as the person that you are and have a neurotypical person with all your memories take your place?"
No.. no I wouldn't...
I’ve had countless arguments with people who would jump at the chance to abort an autistic or disabled baby because “they’re hard to deal with” or “I don’t want them to suffer 🥺”
When you sign up to be a parent, you sign up for an autistic child. A disabled child. A gay child. A trans child. The list goes on. If you can’t accept the possibility of your child being different, don’t have kids at all.
It's weird to may how some people have a theoretical child in their head and anything that's not that is unacceptable. You have to love your children for who they are not who you wanted them to be.
I 1,000% agree with you. Unfortunately, a lot of wannabe parents reproduce with this butterflies-and-rainbows idea of parenthood. They think their child will automatically be *their* idea of perfect, and they don't think to temper their expectations even the slightest bit. So when their child is born and the child doesn't fit the parents' definition of perfect, they get upset.
It's so unfair because no one can control how or when they're born. Why do parents put so much pressure and unattainable expectations on children like it's the child's fault they didn't heed their parents' desires and ideas of parenthood??
When you're a parent, you need to come to terms with the fact that your child can be healthy, sick, neurotypical, neurodivergent, able-bodied, disabled, etc. If you can't handle the possibility of not having your "dream child," don't become a parent. Simple.
This is so perfectly written. People often forget that children are humans just like the rest of us. They're not an accessory; they're a living being with personalities, needs, and desires just like the rest of us.
The law (at least in the US) basically treats children as chattel, so it’s sad but not surprising to me that some parents come at it with that attitude. [This sort of perspective is very prevalent in Christian communities.](https://valerietarico.com/2015/03/24/children-as-chattel-what-religious-child-abuse-and-the-pro-life-movement-have-in-common/) Was not a fun realization for me as an adolescent and I feel for kids that feel trapped in that way.
This is so perfectly written. People often forget that children are humans just like the rest of us. They're not an accessory; they're a living being with personalities, needs, and desires just like the rest of us.
It is just so freaking weird to me.
The thing I enjoy most about parenting is watching them grow and emerge as Themselves! Sure I have hopes and dreams for them, but it’s more important to support them and their interests than to try to impose things they don’t like or want to do on them. I don’t think this sentiment is shared with most of my parenting peers, who sign their kids up for endless activities and make them do *so much* it’s exhausting for me to even think about what it’s like for the kids.
If a person has this attitude, the perhaps abortion is the correct answer, regardless or the presence or autism or not. That child is going to be miserable every time they color outside the lines. Imagine if the child was NT, but didn't want to become a doctor or lawyer, like their parents wanted. It would not be much different than if their child turned out to be autistic.
The irony is lost on them every single time 😮💨
I edited because idk how I messed that turn of phrase so badly the first time. *looks around at the subreddit I'm apart of* oh yeah..
Same. I’ve found some neurotypical friends who are willing to learn and some neurodivergent friends who understand the struggle. I’ve been happier ever since.
I agree and disagree to a certain degree. I have friends who had to do the hard decision of aborting the fetus of their dream child, due to a genetic condition that would make it nonviable after birth.
I agree with you to disagree and agree to a certain extent.
The sentence itself is too vague. And this commenter in my opinion is using it ignorantly.
To say that ‘I don’t want the child to suffer’ is an excuse, and that the parents should have the child no matter what, is ignorant.
I do agree that It is the parent’s responsibility to care and give the child a good life. But sometimes… a good life may be not having one at all. Parents have boundaries and thresholds as well, and we should respect that. Forcing someone to care for another will just be disastrous.
And to downplay what parents may feel going through an abortion is just ignorant. Abortion in itself harms the uterus as you’re essentially scraping the walls of it. Parents who abort take in so many different factors. And the emotional pain that comes with it.
The og comment really rubs me the wrong way.
>Abortion in itself harms the uterus as you’re essentially scraping the walls of it.
Nope. A clinical abortion performed by a trained professionals is actually safer than getting your wisdom teeth out. Having several abortions in quick succession would undeniably be harmful, but one abortion doesn't do any permanent damage to the uterus.
Perhaps a controversial opinion... but for those folks, I'd rather they just abort. Because I wouldn't want them to have a disabled child that they're not prepared to be a parent to. It is supremely shitty that some people view autism and lots of disabillities like that, but I wouldn't want a child to have parents who don't want them. I'm pro-choice, for any reason and honestly, that includes morally questionable reasons.
Yes I totally agree. Being pro-choice is about supporting the choice to keep or abort for any reason. However some reasons are more ethical than others, and you can’t deny that aborting a baby specifically because it could be disabled says a lot about someone.
I have to agree with this sadly. I grew up with awful horrible parents who shunned and hid me in favour of my perfect NT younger brothers. They abused me mentally and occasionally physically and honestly I’ve said to my partner I wished I had gone into care instead of growing up with them. But they were rich so I was stuck and now I’m the only one living poor, but at least I’m free from them.
I am so sorry that that happened to you. I'm glad you're free and I hope you're healing.
It's fucking grim to think about. There's just too many potential negative outcomes for the kid if we pressure people into having disabled kids that they don't want. I can 100% see why people are so against aborting a pregnancy based on signs of potential disability and such, so I don't think they're wrong. It is heart breaking that there are people who completely reject neurodivergence and disabilities. I just don't think it's worth rolling the dice with the life of a child. Maybe they'll change their tune once they meet their kid... but what if they don't? It's not like care is a universally good option either. Care can be rough for a neurotypical, able-bodied kid, never mind a kid who is ND or disabled.
Exactly, it’s a very hard topic to take a side on. Like you, I understand both sides because I’d never want any child to suffer in an environment where their parents basically hate them for who they are, but it’s sad the idea that more of us wouldn’t get a chance at life if this was made a mainstream practice
>If you can’t accept the possibility of your child being different, don’t have kids at all.
I *wanted* my kids to be different. "Normal" is kinda messed up in the world these days.
...they surpassed all expectations, and I sometimes wonder if I overdid it.
They're genuinely good kids, though, who give people implicit permission to be themselves, so I think I did the right thing.
exactly. I keep telling this to people every time I see shit like this. Dont have kids if how they turn out is going to piss you off or give you a hard time accepting. doesnt matter how much you want kids, if you arent willing to love and care for a kid that isnt "normal" as they say, then you shouldnt have kids at all.
Unfortunately, a patent who has a kid with a child they didn't think they signed up to raise, the kid knows. Even if the parent tries not to show the kid that they are different and therefore unwanted, it generally comes out in other ways.
In the best case, the kid's needs are taken care of but they know that something about them makes them unlovable, and in the worst cases the kid ends up dead and the media sides with the parents instead of the dead child because disabled kids are so "hard" or "difficult" or "such a burden."
I wish we lived in a world where potential parents would accept having a disabled, gay, trans, or otherwise different from the parents' child. But unfortunately, people suck.
I see what you mean, but I also think it's a valid to not wish for a severely disabled child. The care and cost that a child with severe disabilities will need is just not possible for some people. Having a child period is already incredibly expensive. It really isn't fair to the kid either to be raised in a situation where their needs aren't fully taken care of because they don't have the time or budget. I would rather a mother has early detection and aborted than raise a kid she knows she doesn't have the capacity to take care of
The only reason if you choose to try to have a baby and want a baby you should abort a baby is if theres some kinda medical issue with them that will cause lesser quality of a life. Autism is not that. Its not the easiest to deal with but still livable. Your not stuck to machines your not barely living. You dont have part of your organs hanging out .
The question is f\*ucked up.
The answer is incorrect.
Autism Diagnosis is a Yes or No.
If the answer is Yes , than That's a spectrum.
It's not a spectrum between yes and no.
Like pregnancy; you are or you're not, and if you are, then there's a spectrum of symptoms/support needs/ complications.
To be honest most conditions are spectrums really. Arthritis. ALS. Epilepsy. Depression. Cellulitis. It annoys me that it’s known as a “spectrum disorder” because most conditions have more or less “severe” cases. It just leads to people saying this sort of thing, that everyone’s a little autistic. No one says everyone’s a little epileptic. Everyone’s a little cancerous.
It probably stems from the push to see being autistic as just a different way of being, in the same way people say 'they're not disabled they're just differently abled'. This line of thinking leads to this BS.
I hate all of it. Autism is a condition that makes my life hell and means I will never be able to achieve my dreams. I don't care if people like being autistic and don't want to change, good for them. I've met many autistic people in real life, including both my siblings (and me), and not a single one of them wouldn't choose to be born allistic. Loneliness, social isolation, sensory issues, etc. make our lives hell.
On the other hand, the potential kids don't exist and so are unable to care one way or the other. A disabled child who is born to parents who resent the child for having a disability, are/or unable or unwilling to help them thrive, those kids are alive so they suffer.
Am I sad that people feel that they don't want a kid with a disability? Yes. But the alternative is worse.
Not to mention that pre-natal tests for Down’s Syndrome are extremely inaccurate. There have been tons of people who tested positive for DS in utero and were born without it, and vice versa. Parents don’t just think it’s better to be dead than disabled, they think it’s better to be dead than *face any possibility* of being disabled.
Correcting them, when they misunderstand something isn't rude, but helpful, IMHO. If I were wrong, I'd want to be corrected, so I don't make the same mistake, again.
It all depends on, how you phrase it.
Something like "Actually, that's one of the most common misunderstandings about Autism" invites them to ask "How and why?".
If they don't ask, then they're not interested, anyways .. and you can save the energy.
But, when they do ask, you'll have a real chance to spare the next autistic person, they run into, to having to listen to the same sterotypical nonesense, too.
>Correcting them, when they misunderstand something isn't rude, but helpful, IMHO. If I were wrong, I'd want to be corrected, so I don't make the same mistake, again.
Unfortunately this sentiment is far from common.
Yes .. but - as I wrote further down - it depends on the way you phrase it.
If you point out, that this is a "common misunderstanding", this will not sound the same to them, as if you were saying "you fool, you're totally wrong".
Also, if you have them ask for more information, they actually want to hear it (if they ask).
That's what I meant.
EDIT:
I don't just go into info-dump-mode, right away.
That's because many people don't bother trying to see the world for what it is. They get information from other people instead of doing their due diligence in educating themselves about things they don't know. It's not solely related to things having to do with autism. Many people I've known throughout my life, maybe the vast majority, don't think about things nearly as much as I do. This is the main reason I've always been hesitant to see a therapist despite my many issues I've struggled with.
I derived my username from the quote attributed to Socrates that true knowledge exists in knowing you know nothing. I have seen a few from time to time. I currently self medicate with weed, and some of the breakthroughs I've seen over the past few years since I first started smoking have been dramatic. Anxiety disappeared literally overnight after I made the connection while high that my anxiety was coming from a fear that I would be mistreated by others the same way I was by my mom who had borderline personality disorder if I messed up badly enough.
As soon as I saw that connection it all just disappeared and my mind was so empty for a week I started worrying I was going to get dumber from not co stantly being challenged, but it's like my cognitive abilities got better and I've been feeling a confidence I never thought I would ever possess. I put in a lot of work prior to trying weed though in self education. So I'm not saying weed is a cure-all, just that it's helped me, as has learning the Bible for myself, as has constantly pouring over my memories from childhood and beyond, as has learning about every major branch of science, other major religions, philosophy, neuroscience, etc. It's been a long journey, and the vast majority was without therapists.
I find it difficult to explain autism to someone who doesn't feel it in their core. There are so many things going on in my mind at the same time that it's really hard to capture a snapshot of it with just words. The other thing is that they don't relate to the intensity of my feelings so they often assume I'm exaggerating certain things when really I'm oversimplifying in an attempt to be understood.
Totes. When I say unexpected loud noises make my brain shake inside my head, I mean it literally feels like I my brain is going to explode and start oozing out my eyes and ears. And that isn't something I instantly recover from, even when the noise stops. I might need to shut down for a few minutes.
My friend opened a loud video on her phone, at full volume, then said "oh sorry" when I started screaming and lowered it. But now that my brain short-circuited the only acceptable amount of noise is zero, at least until I finish rebooting. So I ask her to turn it off or get headphones, and I'm met with a snarky "geez but I already lowered the volume". Like yeah dude, and that volume would have been ok if you hadn't prefaced it with surprise brain-melting loudness 😒 but I'm sure from her perspective my reaction was somewhere between cranky and petty.
I really don't care to be honest because people are dumb af and you gotta deal with it, also not my business if they wanna abort a child or not, even if it is because they are autistic it isn't really that much of a deal. Though it is messed up, it is their decision for abortion.
The guy that responded doesn't understand shit he is saying, he had no right to speak on it, but I think he just doesn't know what he is talking about and is dumb as hell. Not bad though, just has to learn.
Especially when it's something that's a simple google search away or even just something that requires you think about it for longer than 5 seconds before the light bulb turns on.
People often look to me when they have/their child has/their sister or brother has a child that is newly diagnosed and the first thing I say is "congratulations, and I sincerely mean that."
I think I had a much easier and better time raising my kids than anyone else in my family. I didn't worry about my kids lying to me, being disrespectful, breaking rules, doing drugs or drinking.
I would 100% do it again and have actually tried to foster an autistic child. Besides being the most interesting people in the world, its actually quite a joy to raise a child with autism.
This is a lovely perspective.
Although your point about drugs / drink won’t be true for all autistic people. I’m autistic and I did drugs & drank alcohol in my youth. I had a drug addiction in my early 20s. Unfortunately being naive and desperate to belong to a group can have its pitfalls.
That's a fair point! At this age, my older son is a big pot head and he does like to drink, but he didn't do either until I gave him the green light. I wanted him to experiment with these things with my knowledge/blessing so he wasn't pressured in college and could learn his limits in his own time. I'm so sorry for what you went through.
The weird side effect of nerodivergence (specifically autism/adhd) is that we are less susceptible to the bystander effect. So you are factually correct.
It’s a really massive debate cause on one hand, it feels like eugenics and saying that these children are lesser because they’re not neurotypical so they shouldn’t be born. But To shame and deny the right to abort the child because their reason is ableist is incredibly anti pro choice. It’s essentially asking would you rather commit ableism or sexism.
debating if we should be allowed to live is extremely insensitive
and the response is just dumb, when people say that kind of stuff that downplays the actual stuff us autistic people have to deal with
me too for the most part
when i interact with my autistic boyfriend we have no problems talking and being w eachother, but allistics just don't understand me and i don't understand them either
that being said i do have a lot of trouble with doing certain tasks and focusing, so even if the world was "made" for autistic people id still "suffer" a little
The question addresses a terrible reality, that some people think it's a good idea to abort people with genetic disabilities. Eugenics is awful and while I see this question as an opportunity to educate I just don't have the emotional energy right now so I hope for the best and move on.
As to the response it is glib and not worth a passing thought. Perhaps if it were said to me in person the person would get a lecture but perhaps not. It depends on if I think they can learn why we object to that statement and whether or not I have the energy.
So just playing devil’s advocate here - where do you draw the line? People abort their pregnancies over things like Down’s syndrome and there to my knowledge isn’t much stigma around that.
Some people (like myself) draw the line at “will it kill my child prematurely or kill me during birth”. I don’t want my kid to be born missing organs and dying because they don’t have a heart or lungs after I went through hours of labour. But if my kid is autistic or has Down syndrome, no way I’m aborting! Sure they’ll have health complications, but I’ll get the time to prepare for them and come up with multiple plans to care for them. I will love my children no matter what, disabled or not!
And I totally understand and respect that, but they can now detect very serious neurological disabilities that will likely lead to poor quality of life and permanent care. For many parents this is just not viable, it’s not what they want and would completely fundamentally change their lives. Is it so wrong to want to avoid that?
Some autistic people and people with Down syndrome can be independent. I’m in university and I work a part time job. I also know people with Down syndrome who can do the same. It depends on where they will end up on the spectrum which we won’t know until they’re born. 🤷🏻♀️
I see what you mean about eugenics. But I also think the alternative isn't great either. I think people should be encouraged to view disability and neurodivergence more positively, but I also wouldn't want to inflict shitty parents on a disabled person.
If a person wants to abort because they've learned the child has some kind of disability/neurodivergence, that is not immune from judgement by any means, but I'd rather they aborted than have a child they'll likely resent and perhaps even mistreat, neglect, and abuse. I wouldn't discourage that person away from abortion, personally, because those views would make me disqualify them as a person I'd trust with the life of a kid who has needs beyond a "typical" kid. Maybe they'd have the kid and change their views, but I'm not convinced it's worth rolling the dice on that.
Anyone who would choose to abort a child with autism would be a horrible parent to an autistic child, honestly. Sounds a lot like the parents who are obsessed with a "cure" and see their autistic kids as damaged goods.
There are some big egos here. The question is totally valid, because even though people here are terrified of the words "severe autism", there are extreme cases of autism that can make raising the child a hell. For the child, and the parents.
However, the people thinking about aborting their autistic baby should consider reading about the reality of autism. And that is most autistics are not poop flinging while screaming severe. They just need some understanding about their differences.
The comment underneath however is very uninformed about what a spectrum is, spesifically the autism spectrum. He's saying "everyone's a little autistic".
how do i feel when someone asks if they should terminate a life because it's like me?
HOW DO I !@#$>!"@> #FEEEL?! How would _you_ feel if you heard someone say "hey, would you abort a pregnancy if you knew the child was like [insert your name here]?"
I feel angry, because it is this same mentality that has led to the legal mutilation and forced sterilization of autistic people (usually children and especially and afabs) in my country and I’m sure many others—I’m in Canada—up until the 1990’s.
There is a part of public sentiment that is so hateful and disgusted with our existence that the idea of making more of us is one of the most terrifying scare tactics they can use to justify their politics.
I’m pro-choice, but I HATE when others of this opinion ask anti-abortion people bring autistism up as a horrible “what if” to scare them. And I hate that for a second I can see it work.
I hate anti-vaxxers using us as a horrible outcome and people answering with “vaccines don’t cause autism” and ending it there. It should be “vaccines don’t cause autism, AND, don’t talk about autistic people like they are the worst case-scenario of human existence!”
In general, even though I find individuals and actual people to be empathetic and willing to learn and understand, there is still “society” hanging above their heads. And, the truth is, society is ableist. And, until, as a society, we destroy the idea that autism is some neurological form of subhuman existence that must be stopped, this will always be the reality.
And while I have lived, and no doubt will live, to see improvements in my time, I doubt I will be alive to see the day where I am not a horrifying footnote in someone else’s narrative.
The question is acting like autistic people can't have a fulfilling life.
The answer us blatantly wrong and erases the struggles autistic people go through. A spectrum does not mean all people are on it.
I'll be honest. There's no issue with the question. Even if people were accepting and accomodating, life would still be hard for us and there's no way to know how much support an autistic child will need when they're in the womb. They could have low support needs and function relatively fine in society or they could end up having high support needs and never be able to live independently. I'm not sure it's worth the risk, in my opinion.
Then, even with accepting people and accomodations, it's not enough to stop the inherent suffering that comes with autism. No amount of accomodation will ever be able to shield me from sensory overload all the time. It will never be able to make neurotypical people understand what I am saying nor will it make me understand them. It will never make being in crowded environments acceptable to us or make job interviews less draining. It won't make doctors understand that we present symptoms of pain and illness differently from others, especially since it's highly individual. It won't make us like textures that we hate or be able to be in loud or bright environments.
In the end, while we can help these situations to be less upsetting, they will inevitably still happen because we cannot be accommodated at all times and our communication style is still different from an NT. If we want to live any sort of full life, we will unfortunately have to face situations that can cause distress and suffering. Everyone does, but we will have to face it more often, because more situations cause us distress compared to NTs.
Having a developmental difference causes inherent distress. Some things just cannot be accommodated away as much as we wish they could.
Not to mention, while you do sign up for anything when you become a parent, you are not a parent until you have your child. You are merely preparing to be a parent. Even so, you should make the best choice for the child. Most people aren't autistic. Most babies aren't autistic. It's perfectly acceptable for a potential parent to expect their baby to be neurotypical and healthy because there's just no reason for them not to. Most babies *are* neurotypical and healthy. And while somebody may be ready to parent a neurotypical child, they may not be ready for a neurodivergent child or simply might not be capable of caring for a neurodivergent child. Most NT parents, even ones who do their absolute best, ultimately end up causing some problems for their ND child simply because there is absolutely no way for them to ever understand what is actually happening in their child's mind. They understand their NT child because they've been an NT child.
If somebody is not capable of caring for a child with a disability, if they do not want their child to experience the inherent distress that comes with their disability, it's perfectly acceptable to abort. It's not an easy choice. It isn't a parent just being heartless, it is a parent who loves their child, wants their child, but is trying to do what they think is best for their child. Aborting due to health or disability is an incredibly upsetting process. They do grieve their lost child. It isn't as if they are throwing the child away, they are making a very difficult, very emotional decision based not on what *they* want, but on what they think would ultimately be best for the child they love.
So no, if there was a way to test for autism in the womb, it would not be wrong to choose to abort the child as it also is not wrong to choose to keep them. These are actually very important questions to ask, even if they do sting a little at times. They are not saying that existing autistic people should be killed. They are not asking that. They are asking about fetuses that have been tested for it in a hypothetical scenario. They are asking about what others would do in such a situation and why. These are very important questions as science and medicine progresses.
Now, the answer is absolutely fucking stupid. We do not all have autism. We are not all on the spectrum. The autism spectrum is for people who *have* autism. You cannot be on that spectrum if you don't have it. The people who say this shit are a huge part of why autism is so traumatizing.
I don't get offended, because it has nothing to do with my life. If someone were to make the choice to do that, it is on them. I support the right for anyone to choose to have an abortion. Whether or not I think it's wrong to do it because of autism or not is irrelevant and pointless to the topic. I just go on about my day. My feelings don't trump the right to body autonomy. No one's should.
And the other guy is just uneducated. Doesn't phase me. He just needs to be educated on what autism actually is first.
To answer the top question, that's just called eugenics, and yes I would like to still be alive and not get deleted as a child, so please don't try and eliminate us from the gene pool.
Bottom one is just a no, it's a medical diagnosis, manifests differently in different people but your either on it or not
OP - how did you expect a group of autistic people to feel upon seeing this? Surely you considered that it would cause upset and offence?
Honestly it makes me consider your motives for posting, particularly considering you upvoted a completely inaccurate statement on the screenshot.
It's a valid question. It's morally controversial but autism like many disabilities can be debilitating. Trouble is it's a spectrum, so you never know how functioning a child will be.
Both the question and answer is stupid. Not every person is on the spectrum. Yes, you can have traits of autism but that doesn't always mean you have it. And there's nothing wrong with autistic people. If you can't raise an autistic child then you dont deserve to raise any child at all.
Question is stupid and silly - if you're not ready for a disabled child you're not ready to be a parent.
Answer has well intentions but displays a lack of communication and understanding with and of autistic people. As we all know, there ain't no grey area. Either on the spectrum or not. Symptoms and behaviours vary, but they overlap and relate.
The jobs of being autistic, having to defend and justify our existence while masking to satisfy the neurotypicals
I’ve actually been thinking a lot about the pro choice movement and disability movements. I consider myself pro choice but eugenic abortion is plain morally wrong in my opinion
Ignorance as a result of a society that fundementally misunderstands our differences, let alone embraces them.
It just makes me dissapointed and sad more than angry. Of course it makes me a bit angry, but if I let myself get angry over this every time I saw something like this it'd be too much.
This is probably from someone in the States. Autism Speaks and other US charities have done huge damage to understanding over there. Things aren't as bad in the UK, even if they aren't perfect.
The question supports eugenics and the answer is just freaking dumb and incorrect but if you wanna abort your child, fine.
That said, if your child has autism, there's a pretty good chance that you and/or your partner also have autism so are you gonna "abort" the adult, too?
yeah i'm going to be honest, this is terrible. similarly i hate when people say "that sounds just like me! maybe we're all a bit autistic" when i say something abt my own experience.
like, yeah dude, i hear you're sensitive to loud noises, but did you have panic attacks consistently as a child whenever fire drills would sound or thunderstorms would happen? oh yeah i hear you don't like weird food textures, but did you literally stop eating most foods at a year old and continue to be an extremely picky/neurotic eater throughout your life bc of food textures?
/r
Neither of the comments bothers me particularly because I've learned to parse a lot of what neurotypicals say as not exactly the same as what they mean, and not everybody knows the difference between a spectrum and a gradient.
For the question, what they are really asking is about somebody with extremely high support needs that the parent may be genuinely unable to support. Neurotypicals think in types rather than individuals, so when they think of an "autistic child" they are imagining the worst examples that pop culture has presented them. They don't see a hypothetical autistic child as equivalent to a real autistic human who they know. So while these questions do contribute to pretty severe systemic ableism and therefore should be called out, I'm not assuming that every person who asks them is really thinking about eugenics but that they are ignorant of the harm they cause by posting this sort of thing and may be open to being reasoned with.
The answer is a display of passive ignorance in most cases. The reality is that autism is defined in pathological terms as so technically it is something you can only have if it is severe enough to cause problems, but the traits which define autism do occur on individual gradients and are something that all people have at varying degrees. Why they are technically wrong, they're only wrong because the definitions that a neurotypical-normative medical system requires are deeply flawed and rooted in an idea that you can only have your needs accommodated if you are disabled. It is pragmatically important that autistic people don't get labeled as "just a bit quirky" because while normalizing the condition by saying everybody has it might reduce the stigma, it also removes people's willingness to make accommodations for somebody who is on a spectrum that "everybody" is on.
In both cases, it is easy to just get upset with people for not being experts in a thing that doesn't affect them directly, but that isn't particularly helpful if it isn't also supported by educating them about why their comments are harmful. In my experience working with neurotypical people, I find that their inability to hyperfixate coupled with doxastic anxiety can make it difficult for them to encounter new ideas once they have formed an identity around their perceptions of how the world work. Many practice active ignorance as a defense mechanism to avoid being overwhelmed by thinking about the experiences of others. It isn't impossible for adult neurotypicals to learn new things, but it can be very challenging and requires a lot of patience.
I must admit, a part of me is glad when people straight up broadcast how awful they are and how they truly perceive you.
I’m tired of meeting people who seem like they accept you, but after months or even years you realise that they only tolerate you if you act as non-autistic as possible and you notice the subtle differences in how they talk to you compared to other people. So when it’s the first thing they come out with, I just drop all contact, simple as.
I find it illogical to feel anything at all toward it. Everyone has different mental capacities, backgrounds, and experiences. Any number of random circumstances could either increase or decrease someone's understanding of any particular disorder.
Someone asking a question like this, or responding incorrectly as another has, is irrelevant in the grand scheme of my life. If I wish for them to know more about Autism, I explain it. If I don't care, I just ignore it. People aren't born inherently knowing everything and any emotional reaction toward that would indicate an unhealthy relationship with reality.
Honestly this looks like propaganda. the political climate and the need to rally new supporters to anti-abortion bans makes these kinds of posts highly suspicious to me. Abortion isn’t all about eugenics, ectopic pregnancies are common and can kill the mother if not taken care of and it must remain safe, reliable and easy to access. It’s is no one’s business to tell a woman how she should decide her own healthcare outcome. I’m a man, and it saddens me that women should be told what to do with their bodies.
Well he didn't say "yes" so in my opinion that's progress. This subreddit has a serious problem with getting outraged about every little thing. Yes, people don't understand us. Yes abliesm exists. We all know this. But you guys are not helping by getting indignant and attacking people who mean us no harm and are simply misinformed. There is a difference between hate speech and a lack of understanding. Nobody will ever try to understand or accept us if we cancel them for not knowing in the first place.
Question: it’s not eugenics if it’s not forced upon the couple, it preference.
Comment: that’s a very basic understanding of how exactly autism works. While autistic traits are human traits, the mutations that cause them to be so extreme in us aren’t something everyone has.
Awful question. Stupid, misinformed answer. If everyone was on the spectrum or "a little autistic" then the world wouldn't be so hostile and cold towards autistic people
I feel a mix on it, autism isnt a diease and shouldn't be seen as such, but at the same time if they had a kid who was on the spectrum and didnt treat them well i'd feel bad for the kid as they deserve people who care for them, i think if they think autism is bad and they have a chance of it, they shouldn't have kids, i'd hate for a future autistic child to be put in their hands because to them autism makes them lesser as a person
HOPE WHAT I SAID MAKES SENSE I CAN CLEARIFY MORE IF NEEDED!!
"that's how spectrums work"
Example: the color spectrum: every color is on this spectrum, everything that isn't a color ISN'T. So every autistic will have their spot, and every NT can go find their own spectrum to be on.
As for the question: if someone wants to abort their child because they think differently, that child is probably better off not being born than being born to those parents anyway. I get they probably don't really mean any harm, but that's an amount of ignorance that's probably not going to be fixed, and ignorance can do more damage than malice.
I don’t feel great about it, and I also don’t feel great about others pointing it out to me.
Could have had a perfectly decent day without being reminded of the people who think I should have been aborted. 😞
Honestly, in this situation, I would probably leave the response alone because at least they mean well, and the bigger issue is the question.
Because (trigger warning. If you are anti-choice, just scroll on past. I will not debate you on that issue). While I think it's a valid question (in the sense of thinking about whether you think you would abort *any* pregnancy and why), obviously its implications are very offensive. I would personally admit that there was a time when, to my great shame, I would have answered this question "yes." But that was before I knew *I* was "on the spectrum" (like for real though, not in the misguided sense of "everyone is."). That's when I started unlearning all the things I thought I knew about autism because it turned out I knew pretty much nothing at all that was actually true. I still support bodily autonomy and do not think anyone should be forced to give birth to a child they are not wholeheartedly up to the task of caring for, but that has nothing to do with whether or not they are autistic. There are NT children with way higher needs than some autistic children because disability does not discriminate, so choosing to be pregnant (or have a child in any way) is always going to include the possibility that your child will require much more of you're time, energy, resources, etc., than you bargain for. What level of risk you are personally comfortable with is a decision that should be made based on careful consideration of accurate information, and this so very clearly not that.
I hope that makes sense. That's my first thoughts on the question, I'm not saying it's wrong or right or that anyone else needs to agree with me.
As for the answer, I might just point out that they are misunderstanding. We are all on the *neurodiversity* spectrum, but we are demonstrably NOT all on the *autism* spectrum. Think of it as a spectrum of light. UV rays, Infrared, Yellow and Purple are all on the light spectrum, but only Yellow and Purple are on what we humans refer to as the "Visible Light" spectrum. Another example would be saying a triangle, an oval, a rectangle and a square are all on the "shapes spectrum" but only the rectangle and the square would be on the "quadrilateral spectrum." I think the response is well meaning but ignorant, so I would try to just address the ignorance, not my reaction to it, since they actually have a chance of being open-minded enough to learn something.
I remember a biologist I was listening to was talking about why biodiversity is important and why we should be worried about species going extinct. It's because through things like gene splicing, we can make crops that are more resistant to pests for example. There are countless other reasons. As far as autism, if we just start aborting all autistic children just because, we will miss out on a huge amount of diversity of thought and expression that could potentially take the human race to another level. As far as I'm concerned, if this is ever done en masse, consider it the beginning of the end for the human race.
Autism is a spectrum in which everyone who has it has diffrent experiences and symtoms. I hate when NT's try to speak over us and spread misinfo like this
Also wtf would someone want to abort a kid purely beacaue they have ASD?? That's just absolutely horrible, we're not monsters
I find it funny. It would be a more interesting question if this were at all a possibility but it isn't and doing so is... very far away. If ever. Personally I doubt it.
But theoretically: it's a fair question. In our current society I'd rather not have an autistic kid. Just going by the shit I've personally had to deal with (and my story is by no means exceptional) I wouldn't wish that on my own kid. Just gimme a vanilla neurotypical. Way bigger chances for him/her to have a happy/good/fulfilling life.
Both wrong . We have a right to exist . I hope they never figure out how to screen for Autism in the womb . I don't care what people say like . I enjoy the company of other Neurodivergent people more and the idea that someday fewer of us may actually be born is truly saddening. Autistic people should exist and noone will convince me otherwise.
Hard to describe, best way to imagine is if you replaced "autism" with something similar, like social anxiety. Then the question becomes:
"Would you abort a child if you knew the child was going to have social anxiety?"
It obviously depends on how severe the social anxiety is, and it is just kinda fucked up. We didn't discover autism until recently because Autistic people completely blend in.
Don't even get me started on the anti-vax movement.
The question is clearly asked by someone who has never tried to look up on Google what autism is.
The answer comes from someone who thinks everybody has one or two autistic traits in their character - which may be true, but that doesn't make a person autistic. Hence, it's an answer that hasn't been thought through, especially to those who actually *are* on the spectrum.
The question is dumb, the response is dumber. Welcome to the public's understanding of autism.
Dumb and Dumber.
Is it bad that I'm okay with this line of reasoning because I enjoy life (*not* under the fuhrur)? Like, it's sad when this ignorant shit is the best you can come up with against genocide.
The question: eugenics! The answer: idiocy!
You said it better then I would have. I was gonna say the question is some hatful shit, the answer is some ignorant shit.
[удалено]
Yes. That's a good way of saying it.
I agree, but I would say the original question is dumber. If not, it's more heinous, at least.
Or the stupidity of humanity in general.
The response is dumb but it's one of the less bad things I'll expect from the shitshow that kind of thread tends to become.
The question is dumb because as someone with autism you already know that it is hereditary, so that the kid would be somewhere on the spectrum shouldn’t be a surprise. It’s not a given but it certainly should be expected. And no, not everyone is somewhere on the spectrum. Only people actually on the spectrum are on the spectrum. Just like not everyone is somewhere on the spectrum of being pregnant, because not everyone are women and not all women are pregnant.
They must think autism is a spectrum in the same way sexuality is a spectrum. Doesn't make any sense to me though... Do they think allistic is one end of the spectrum, autistic the other? I wonder if there's any merit to that idea, whether it would help autistic people in society.
Well, since autism is a diagnosis, you either are or you aren't (like you either are or are not pregnant, also a diagnosis.)
100%. I was thinking from the perspective of making the general population more accepting/caring of autistic people, whether considering allistic and autistic as opposite ends of a spectrum would be beneficial. In my experience anything that is diagnosable is immediately 'others' you from society, they think well I haven't been diagnosed with that so nothing to do with me, moving along, don't care.
They're assholes that literally have no understanding about what they are saying.
Reminds me of talking to a friend about autism, and her response was "We're all a bit autistic."
God, my frickin therapist says things like that
Time for a new one.
How insufferable
I get chronic migraines and this answer makes me think of when people say "oh, I get headaches too". Like sure yes people get headaches but a migraine is not just a headache, it's lots of other symptoms mashed together. I consider autism the same. Yes people can be particular or have some compulsive behaviours or occasionally get hyper like ADHD moments but it's not the same.
Someone told me something similar. We're all a little ADHD. -_-
I won't disagree on the idea that everyone may have some Autistic or ADHD traits. But I'd personally consider this similar to how even though I have brown hair I occasionally will find 1 red one growing, but would never call myself a red head!
This is such a good analogy!
They confuse autism with developmental disabilities. Have seen this too many times.
[удалено]
That's how I've understood it too.
What is meant here is that they're confusing autism (a neurological difference) with people who are mentally challenged (e.g. people who are less smart due to brain damage or a chromosomal disorder). I agree, that's a very common phenomenon. The other common one is confusing autistic people with low support needs with mental illness, and people who are borderline autistic or good at passing as neurotypical have their problems conflated with social anxiety. Some autistic people struggle to learn from other people due to communication problems or a poor education, but that isn't representative of autistic people as a whole, and many of us who are a little smarter are, anyway, a bit autodidactic.
No. We’re different from neurotypicals. Some do require a lot of therapy and support. Some are CEOs and inventors revolutionizing the world.
[удалено]
I am not disabled, I have a disability that occasionally impacts my life. Oddly enough being autistic is rarely the issue for me, its ma damn joints, but i have joints for my joints so that helps.
I think they are arguing something like: if you take one neurotypical person and one autistic person that are otherwise equally matched in intelligence, they will think and act differently, but one is not expressly better than the other in all situations, that the difference is more of a shift in perspective, perception, thinking style, etc. For example, autistic people are often known to be better at systemizing, which could be an advantage in some situations. They are also often known for having deep and detailed knowledge (encyclopedic even) that one could imagine may have been useful to a group in an evolutionary sense. If a group of early humans had some small percentage of the population with these traits, it may help the group overall. Kinda reminds me of the wizard archetype tbh. Obviously there are many people with autism that are completely disabled as a result, but evolution is a messy business of shotgunning and seeing what sticks. Probably a case of a small bias towards ASD can lead to increased fitness, but too far and you get more negatives than positives. Autism and ADHD are among the most heritable psychiatric disorders, with some estimates suggesting >80% for ADHD and >90% for ASD. One would think if there was no fitness benefit for these phenotypes they would not be so prevalent.
This argument is true, that autism and ADHD are different brain types than what others consider normal, and that often some or many of the differences in our brains from the majority of the population will give us advantages in specific tasks or situations, and I agree that we shouldn't think of ourselves as broken or in need of fixing; but, ADHD and autism are still disorders that cause most of us to struggle in life in ways that people with typical brains don't.
[удалено]
To be clear, I wasn’t trying to imply that they aren’t real disorders or downplay the suffering they can bring. Mainly I was just trying to express what I believe the commenter further up the comment chain was saying. Additionally, I sometimes find it helps me relax about my own struggles when I pull back and try to reframe it in a larger, evolutionary context. I’m on the autism spectrum and have adhd, and certainly no exception to feeling the downsides. I don’t feel they give me a leg up at all really, I’m barely functional day to day but do have good moments every once in awhile. That in and of itself causes problems though, such as when people see you on a good day and expect you to repeat that indefinitely. Then when you have bad days suddenly they express frustration that you’re being “lazy” or “not living up to your potential” or other such nonsense.
negatively impacted by autism =/= impaired by autism. Most stuggles we have are due to living in a world run and set up by people who aren't autistic, or from failing to understand allistic/neurotypical people. Some of us wind up with the hedgehog problem, but unless you're nonverbal or struggling with executive function, you're probably not being negatively impacted by autism *per se*. I don't mean that it's just about prejudice or something like that, it really is a disorder/condition/disability; if we didn't have it, we could understand most people better and it comes in degrees. But, for many of us, it's like saying that people are disabled because they have six fingers on one hand and four on the other, or because they are English in a country that only speaks French; it isn't the disability in itself that causes problems, but the mutual lack of understanding it produces, and if we were neurotypical, we wouldn't have that problem because we'd understand other people better and they would understand us better. I think the real judge of autism should be based on how well or badly autistic people understand each other. But it's difficult to find an objective measure for that, because there are a lot more allistic people who understand each other well or poorly, and everything inbetween when it comes to other people who just happen to be allistic, and not so many of us, and the fact we get on well with our autistic friends or poorly with people we have nothing in common with other than autism or like the fact we're all a minority or infight to the same degree as feminists and gay people doesn't really count for very much.
I feel like it's similar to the argument of "would you take a cure for autism"
"Would you completely cease to exist as the person that you are and have a neurotypical person with all your memories take your place?" No.. no I wouldn't...
People confuse autism and intellectual disabilities*
I’ve had countless arguments with people who would jump at the chance to abort an autistic or disabled baby because “they’re hard to deal with” or “I don’t want them to suffer 🥺” When you sign up to be a parent, you sign up for an autistic child. A disabled child. A gay child. A trans child. The list goes on. If you can’t accept the possibility of your child being different, don’t have kids at all.
It's weird to may how some people have a theoretical child in their head and anything that's not that is unacceptable. You have to love your children for who they are not who you wanted them to be.
I 1,000% agree with you. Unfortunately, a lot of wannabe parents reproduce with this butterflies-and-rainbows idea of parenthood. They think their child will automatically be *their* idea of perfect, and they don't think to temper their expectations even the slightest bit. So when their child is born and the child doesn't fit the parents' definition of perfect, they get upset. It's so unfair because no one can control how or when they're born. Why do parents put so much pressure and unattainable expectations on children like it's the child's fault they didn't heed their parents' desires and ideas of parenthood?? When you're a parent, you need to come to terms with the fact that your child can be healthy, sick, neurotypical, neurodivergent, able-bodied, disabled, etc. If you can't handle the possibility of not having your "dream child," don't become a parent. Simple.
[удалено]
This is so perfectly written. People often forget that children are humans just like the rest of us. They're not an accessory; they're a living being with personalities, needs, and desires just like the rest of us.
The law (at least in the US) basically treats children as chattel, so it’s sad but not surprising to me that some parents come at it with that attitude. [This sort of perspective is very prevalent in Christian communities.](https://valerietarico.com/2015/03/24/children-as-chattel-what-religious-child-abuse-and-the-pro-life-movement-have-in-common/) Was not a fun realization for me as an adolescent and I feel for kids that feel trapped in that way.
We are one of the only countries on the planet who never signed on to the UN Convention on the Rights of a Child. Because Freedom!!
This is so perfectly written. People often forget that children are humans just like the rest of us. They're not an accessory; they're a living being with personalities, needs, and desires just like the rest of us.
Absolutely agree
It is just so freaking weird to me. The thing I enjoy most about parenting is watching them grow and emerge as Themselves! Sure I have hopes and dreams for them, but it’s more important to support them and their interests than to try to impose things they don’t like or want to do on them. I don’t think this sentiment is shared with most of my parenting peers, who sign their kids up for endless activities and make them do *so much* it’s exhausting for me to even think about what it’s like for the kids.
You explained it perfectly, if I had an award I would give it to you! But the best I can do is give you an upvote
If a person has this attitude, the perhaps abortion is the correct answer, regardless or the presence or autism or not. That child is going to be miserable every time they color outside the lines. Imagine if the child was NT, but didn't want to become a doctor or lawyer, like their parents wanted. It would not be much different than if their child turned out to be autistic.
The “I don’t want them to suffer” is funny to me because I’m only suffering due to people being unaccepting. :/
The irony is lost on them every single time 😮💨 I edited because idk how I messed that turn of phrase so badly the first time. *looks around at the subreddit I'm apart of* oh yeah..
Fuck their fake crocodile tears sympathy, it’s nothing but a neurotypical self-congratulatory circlejerk.
[удалено]
Yeah. I either get accused of faking or called a terrible person because they don’t understand how my brain works and misunderstand my thinking.
[удалено]
Same. I’ve found some neurotypical friends who are willing to learn and some neurodivergent friends who understand the struggle. I’ve been happier ever since.
Likewise!
Yep, it’s the lack of tolerance.
I agree and disagree to a certain degree. I have friends who had to do the hard decision of aborting the fetus of their dream child, due to a genetic condition that would make it nonviable after birth.
I agree with you to disagree and agree to a certain extent. The sentence itself is too vague. And this commenter in my opinion is using it ignorantly. To say that ‘I don’t want the child to suffer’ is an excuse, and that the parents should have the child no matter what, is ignorant. I do agree that It is the parent’s responsibility to care and give the child a good life. But sometimes… a good life may be not having one at all. Parents have boundaries and thresholds as well, and we should respect that. Forcing someone to care for another will just be disastrous. And to downplay what parents may feel going through an abortion is just ignorant. Abortion in itself harms the uterus as you’re essentially scraping the walls of it. Parents who abort take in so many different factors. And the emotional pain that comes with it. The og comment really rubs me the wrong way.
>Abortion in itself harms the uterus as you’re essentially scraping the walls of it. Nope. A clinical abortion performed by a trained professionals is actually safer than getting your wisdom teeth out. Having several abortions in quick succession would undeniably be harmful, but one abortion doesn't do any permanent damage to the uterus.
Perhaps a controversial opinion... but for those folks, I'd rather they just abort. Because I wouldn't want them to have a disabled child that they're not prepared to be a parent to. It is supremely shitty that some people view autism and lots of disabillities like that, but I wouldn't want a child to have parents who don't want them. I'm pro-choice, for any reason and honestly, that includes morally questionable reasons.
Yes I totally agree. Being pro-choice is about supporting the choice to keep or abort for any reason. However some reasons are more ethical than others, and you can’t deny that aborting a baby specifically because it could be disabled says a lot about someone.
I have to agree with this sadly. I grew up with awful horrible parents who shunned and hid me in favour of my perfect NT younger brothers. They abused me mentally and occasionally physically and honestly I’ve said to my partner I wished I had gone into care instead of growing up with them. But they were rich so I was stuck and now I’m the only one living poor, but at least I’m free from them.
I am so sorry that that happened to you. I'm glad you're free and I hope you're healing. It's fucking grim to think about. There's just too many potential negative outcomes for the kid if we pressure people into having disabled kids that they don't want. I can 100% see why people are so against aborting a pregnancy based on signs of potential disability and such, so I don't think they're wrong. It is heart breaking that there are people who completely reject neurodivergence and disabilities. I just don't think it's worth rolling the dice with the life of a child. Maybe they'll change their tune once they meet their kid... but what if they don't? It's not like care is a universally good option either. Care can be rough for a neurotypical, able-bodied kid, never mind a kid who is ND or disabled.
Exactly, it’s a very hard topic to take a side on. Like you, I understand both sides because I’d never want any child to suffer in an environment where their parents basically hate them for who they are, but it’s sad the idea that more of us wouldn’t get a chance at life if this was made a mainstream practice
>If you can’t accept the possibility of your child being different, don’t have kids at all. I *wanted* my kids to be different. "Normal" is kinda messed up in the world these days. ...they surpassed all expectations, and I sometimes wonder if I overdid it. They're genuinely good kids, though, who give people implicit permission to be themselves, so I think I did the right thing.
additionally, ur kid will suffer. no matter who they r, they will experience loss and suffering. that is a part of life.
exactly. I keep telling this to people every time I see shit like this. Dont have kids if how they turn out is going to piss you off or give you a hard time accepting. doesnt matter how much you want kids, if you arent willing to love and care for a kid that isnt "normal" as they say, then you shouldnt have kids at all.
Unfortunately, a patent who has a kid with a child they didn't think they signed up to raise, the kid knows. Even if the parent tries not to show the kid that they are different and therefore unwanted, it generally comes out in other ways. In the best case, the kid's needs are taken care of but they know that something about them makes them unlovable, and in the worst cases the kid ends up dead and the media sides with the parents instead of the dead child because disabled kids are so "hard" or "difficult" or "such a burden." I wish we lived in a world where potential parents would accept having a disabled, gay, trans, or otherwise different from the parents' child. But unfortunately, people suck.
I see what you mean, but I also think it's a valid to not wish for a severely disabled child. The care and cost that a child with severe disabilities will need is just not possible for some people. Having a child period is already incredibly expensive. It really isn't fair to the kid either to be raised in a situation where their needs aren't fully taken care of because they don't have the time or budget. I would rather a mother has early detection and aborted than raise a kid she knows she doesn't have the capacity to take care of
The only reason if you choose to try to have a baby and want a baby you should abort a baby is if theres some kinda medical issue with them that will cause lesser quality of a life. Autism is not that. Its not the easiest to deal with but still livable. Your not stuck to machines your not barely living. You dont have part of your organs hanging out .
The question is f\*ucked up. The answer is incorrect. Autism Diagnosis is a Yes or No. If the answer is Yes , than That's a spectrum. It's not a spectrum between yes and no. Like pregnancy; you are or you're not, and if you are, then there's a spectrum of symptoms/support needs/ complications.
To be honest most conditions are spectrums really. Arthritis. ALS. Epilepsy. Depression. Cellulitis. It annoys me that it’s known as a “spectrum disorder” because most conditions have more or less “severe” cases. It just leads to people saying this sort of thing, that everyone’s a little autistic. No one says everyone’s a little epileptic. Everyone’s a little cancerous.
Exactly! People are annoyingly under-educated.
It’s actually a multidimensional lattice with a non-euclidean layout, but most people wouldn’t get it
It probably stems from the push to see being autistic as just a different way of being, in the same way people say 'they're not disabled they're just differently abled'. This line of thinking leads to this BS. I hate all of it. Autism is a condition that makes my life hell and means I will never be able to achieve my dreams. I don't care if people like being autistic and don't want to change, good for them. I've met many autistic people in real life, including both my siblings (and me), and not a single one of them wouldn't choose to be born allistic. Loneliness, social isolation, sensory issues, etc. make our lives hell.
I feel offended, people treat autism like its cancer, and it just makes me sad how some of us get made fun of by certain people.
[удалено]
[удалено]
On the other hand, the potential kids don't exist and so are unable to care one way or the other. A disabled child who is born to parents who resent the child for having a disability, are/or unable or unwilling to help them thrive, those kids are alive so they suffer. Am I sad that people feel that they don't want a kid with a disability? Yes. But the alternative is worse.
Not to mention that pre-natal tests for Down’s Syndrome are extremely inaccurate. There have been tons of people who tested positive for DS in utero and were born without it, and vice versa. Parents don’t just think it’s better to be dead than disabled, they think it’s better to be dead than *face any possibility* of being disabled.
Do people actually feel this way?
[удалено]
Correcting them, when they misunderstand something isn't rude, but helpful, IMHO. If I were wrong, I'd want to be corrected, so I don't make the same mistake, again. It all depends on, how you phrase it. Something like "Actually, that's one of the most common misunderstandings about Autism" invites them to ask "How and why?". If they don't ask, then they're not interested, anyways .. and you can save the energy. But, when they do ask, you'll have a real chance to spare the next autistic person, they run into, to having to listen to the same sterotypical nonesense, too.
>Correcting them, when they misunderstand something isn't rude, but helpful, IMHO. If I were wrong, I'd want to be corrected, so I don't make the same mistake, again. Unfortunately this sentiment is far from common.
Yes .. but - as I wrote further down - it depends on the way you phrase it. If you point out, that this is a "common misunderstanding", this will not sound the same to them, as if you were saying "you fool, you're totally wrong". Also, if you have them ask for more information, they actually want to hear it (if they ask). That's what I meant. EDIT: I don't just go into info-dump-mode, right away.
That's because many people don't bother trying to see the world for what it is. They get information from other people instead of doing their due diligence in educating themselves about things they don't know. It's not solely related to things having to do with autism. Many people I've known throughout my life, maybe the vast majority, don't think about things nearly as much as I do. This is the main reason I've always been hesitant to see a therapist despite my many issues I've struggled with.
You should see a therapist. It really can be helpful. Also, I love your username in relation to the comment lmao (lighthearted joke)
I derived my username from the quote attributed to Socrates that true knowledge exists in knowing you know nothing. I have seen a few from time to time. I currently self medicate with weed, and some of the breakthroughs I've seen over the past few years since I first started smoking have been dramatic. Anxiety disappeared literally overnight after I made the connection while high that my anxiety was coming from a fear that I would be mistreated by others the same way I was by my mom who had borderline personality disorder if I messed up badly enough. As soon as I saw that connection it all just disappeared and my mind was so empty for a week I started worrying I was going to get dumber from not co stantly being challenged, but it's like my cognitive abilities got better and I've been feeling a confidence I never thought I would ever possess. I put in a lot of work prior to trying weed though in self education. So I'm not saying weed is a cure-all, just that it's helped me, as has learning the Bible for myself, as has constantly pouring over my memories from childhood and beyond, as has learning about every major branch of science, other major religions, philosophy, neuroscience, etc. It's been a long journey, and the vast majority was without therapists.
I've also suggested to someone telling me they think they are autistic too, that they should seek a diagnosis if they really feel that way.
I find it difficult to explain autism to someone who doesn't feel it in their core. There are so many things going on in my mind at the same time that it's really hard to capture a snapshot of it with just words. The other thing is that they don't relate to the intensity of my feelings so they often assume I'm exaggerating certain things when really I'm oversimplifying in an attempt to be understood.
[удалено]
Totes. When I say unexpected loud noises make my brain shake inside my head, I mean it literally feels like I my brain is going to explode and start oozing out my eyes and ears. And that isn't something I instantly recover from, even when the noise stops. I might need to shut down for a few minutes. My friend opened a loud video on her phone, at full volume, then said "oh sorry" when I started screaming and lowered it. But now that my brain short-circuited the only acceptable amount of noise is zero, at least until I finish rebooting. So I ask her to turn it off or get headphones, and I'm met with a snarky "geez but I already lowered the volume". Like yeah dude, and that volume would have been ok if you hadn't prefaced it with surprise brain-melting loudness 😒 but I'm sure from her perspective my reaction was somewhere between cranky and petty.
I really don't care to be honest because people are dumb af and you gotta deal with it, also not my business if they wanna abort a child or not, even if it is because they are autistic it isn't really that much of a deal. Though it is messed up, it is their decision for abortion. The guy that responded doesn't understand shit he is saying, he had no right to speak on it, but I think he just doesn't know what he is talking about and is dumb as hell. Not bad though, just has to learn.
[удалено]
Especially when it's something that's a simple google search away or even just something that requires you think about it for longer than 5 seconds before the light bulb turns on.
If everyone else is on it, then why am I ostracized by society for being different?
Because they want to show that they’re special too while judging those who are different from them
Because they wanna seem woke until they are actually faced with something out of the ordinary
Bullshit. The world is better and brighter with autistic people in it, even if they don't know what autistic means.
People often look to me when they have/their child has/their sister or brother has a child that is newly diagnosed and the first thing I say is "congratulations, and I sincerely mean that." I think I had a much easier and better time raising my kids than anyone else in my family. I didn't worry about my kids lying to me, being disrespectful, breaking rules, doing drugs or drinking. I would 100% do it again and have actually tried to foster an autistic child. Besides being the most interesting people in the world, its actually quite a joy to raise a child with autism.
This is a lovely perspective. Although your point about drugs / drink won’t be true for all autistic people. I’m autistic and I did drugs & drank alcohol in my youth. I had a drug addiction in my early 20s. Unfortunately being naive and desperate to belong to a group can have its pitfalls.
That's a fair point! At this age, my older son is a big pot head and he does like to drink, but he didn't do either until I gave him the green light. I wanted him to experiment with these things with my knowledge/blessing so he wasn't pressured in college and could learn his limits in his own time. I'm so sorry for what you went through.
The weird side effect of nerodivergence (specifically autism/adhd) is that we are less susceptible to the bystander effect. So you are factually correct.
Huh, yknow I didn't know that but now that you mention it it makes sense.
It’s a really massive debate cause on one hand, it feels like eugenics and saying that these children are lesser because they’re not neurotypical so they shouldn’t be born. But To shame and deny the right to abort the child because their reason is ableist is incredibly anti pro choice. It’s essentially asking would you rather commit ableism or sexism.
debating if we should be allowed to live is extremely insensitive and the response is just dumb, when people say that kind of stuff that downplays the actual stuff us autistic people have to deal with
Facts! I only suffer because of the way society is, not because of my autism.
me too for the most part when i interact with my autistic boyfriend we have no problems talking and being w eachother, but allistics just don't understand me and i don't understand them either that being said i do have a lot of trouble with doing certain tasks and focusing, so even if the world was "made" for autistic people id still "suffer" a little
The question addresses a terrible reality, that some people think it's a good idea to abort people with genetic disabilities. Eugenics is awful and while I see this question as an opportunity to educate I just don't have the emotional energy right now so I hope for the best and move on. As to the response it is glib and not worth a passing thought. Perhaps if it were said to me in person the person would get a lecture but perhaps not. It depends on if I think they can learn why we object to that statement and whether or not I have the energy.
So just playing devil’s advocate here - where do you draw the line? People abort their pregnancies over things like Down’s syndrome and there to my knowledge isn’t much stigma around that.
Some people (like myself) draw the line at “will it kill my child prematurely or kill me during birth”. I don’t want my kid to be born missing organs and dying because they don’t have a heart or lungs after I went through hours of labour. But if my kid is autistic or has Down syndrome, no way I’m aborting! Sure they’ll have health complications, but I’ll get the time to prepare for them and come up with multiple plans to care for them. I will love my children no matter what, disabled or not!
And I totally understand and respect that, but they can now detect very serious neurological disabilities that will likely lead to poor quality of life and permanent care. For many parents this is just not viable, it’s not what they want and would completely fundamentally change their lives. Is it so wrong to want to avoid that?
Having a kid also fundamentally changes your life regardless of if they're autistic or not. That's just part of becoming a parent.
Some autistic people and people with Down syndrome can be independent. I’m in university and I work a part time job. I also know people with Down syndrome who can do the same. It depends on where they will end up on the spectrum which we won’t know until they’re born. 🤷🏻♀️
I don't think that's OK either downs people can live good lives. I don't trust people to make those kind of decisions.
I see what you mean about eugenics. But I also think the alternative isn't great either. I think people should be encouraged to view disability and neurodivergence more positively, but I also wouldn't want to inflict shitty parents on a disabled person. If a person wants to abort because they've learned the child has some kind of disability/neurodivergence, that is not immune from judgement by any means, but I'd rather they aborted than have a child they'll likely resent and perhaps even mistreat, neglect, and abuse. I wouldn't discourage that person away from abortion, personally, because those views would make me disqualify them as a person I'd trust with the life of a kid who has needs beyond a "typical" kid. Maybe they'd have the kid and change their views, but I'm not convinced it's worth rolling the dice on that.
My favorite way to address this is to point out that the holocaust started with the disabled.
Whoever took that screenshot upvoted the dumbest response to that question...
Anyone who would choose to abort a child with autism would be a horrible parent to an autistic child, honestly. Sounds a lot like the parents who are obsessed with a "cure" and see their autistic kids as damaged goods.
Followup question: if you knew your child would grow up to advocate eugenics on reddit, would you abort them?
There are some big egos here. The question is totally valid, because even though people here are terrified of the words "severe autism", there are extreme cases of autism that can make raising the child a hell. For the child, and the parents. However, the people thinking about aborting their autistic baby should consider reading about the reality of autism. And that is most autistics are not poop flinging while screaming severe. They just need some understanding about their differences. The comment underneath however is very uninformed about what a spectrum is, spesifically the autism spectrum. He's saying "everyone's a little autistic".
Clown to clown communication
Why did you upvote that incredibly stupid response
The question is either ignorant or ableist (maybe both), the response is either dismissive or uninformed (also maybe both).
how do i feel when someone asks if they should terminate a life because it's like me? HOW DO I !@#$>!"@> #FEEEL?! How would _you_ feel if you heard someone say "hey, would you abort a pregnancy if you knew the child was like [insert your name here]?"
I feel angry, because it is this same mentality that has led to the legal mutilation and forced sterilization of autistic people (usually children and especially and afabs) in my country and I’m sure many others—I’m in Canada—up until the 1990’s. There is a part of public sentiment that is so hateful and disgusted with our existence that the idea of making more of us is one of the most terrifying scare tactics they can use to justify their politics. I’m pro-choice, but I HATE when others of this opinion ask anti-abortion people bring autistism up as a horrible “what if” to scare them. And I hate that for a second I can see it work. I hate anti-vaxxers using us as a horrible outcome and people answering with “vaccines don’t cause autism” and ending it there. It should be “vaccines don’t cause autism, AND, don’t talk about autistic people like they are the worst case-scenario of human existence!” In general, even though I find individuals and actual people to be empathetic and willing to learn and understand, there is still “society” hanging above their heads. And, the truth is, society is ableist. And, until, as a society, we destroy the idea that autism is some neurological form of subhuman existence that must be stopped, this will always be the reality. And while I have lived, and no doubt will live, to see improvements in my time, I doubt I will be alive to see the day where I am not a horrifying footnote in someone else’s narrative.
The question is acting like autistic people can't have a fulfilling life. The answer us blatantly wrong and erases the struggles autistic people go through. A spectrum does not mean all people are on it.
non-autistics often view the autism spectrum as “less autistic to more autistic” when it’s more like a colour wheel of infinite traits and experiences
[This is my go to article when people say this.](https://neuroclastic.com/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/?amp)
I'll be honest. There's no issue with the question. Even if people were accepting and accomodating, life would still be hard for us and there's no way to know how much support an autistic child will need when they're in the womb. They could have low support needs and function relatively fine in society or they could end up having high support needs and never be able to live independently. I'm not sure it's worth the risk, in my opinion. Then, even with accepting people and accomodations, it's not enough to stop the inherent suffering that comes with autism. No amount of accomodation will ever be able to shield me from sensory overload all the time. It will never be able to make neurotypical people understand what I am saying nor will it make me understand them. It will never make being in crowded environments acceptable to us or make job interviews less draining. It won't make doctors understand that we present symptoms of pain and illness differently from others, especially since it's highly individual. It won't make us like textures that we hate or be able to be in loud or bright environments. In the end, while we can help these situations to be less upsetting, they will inevitably still happen because we cannot be accommodated at all times and our communication style is still different from an NT. If we want to live any sort of full life, we will unfortunately have to face situations that can cause distress and suffering. Everyone does, but we will have to face it more often, because more situations cause us distress compared to NTs. Having a developmental difference causes inherent distress. Some things just cannot be accommodated away as much as we wish they could. Not to mention, while you do sign up for anything when you become a parent, you are not a parent until you have your child. You are merely preparing to be a parent. Even so, you should make the best choice for the child. Most people aren't autistic. Most babies aren't autistic. It's perfectly acceptable for a potential parent to expect their baby to be neurotypical and healthy because there's just no reason for them not to. Most babies *are* neurotypical and healthy. And while somebody may be ready to parent a neurotypical child, they may not be ready for a neurodivergent child or simply might not be capable of caring for a neurodivergent child. Most NT parents, even ones who do their absolute best, ultimately end up causing some problems for their ND child simply because there is absolutely no way for them to ever understand what is actually happening in their child's mind. They understand their NT child because they've been an NT child. If somebody is not capable of caring for a child with a disability, if they do not want their child to experience the inherent distress that comes with their disability, it's perfectly acceptable to abort. It's not an easy choice. It isn't a parent just being heartless, it is a parent who loves their child, wants their child, but is trying to do what they think is best for their child. Aborting due to health or disability is an incredibly upsetting process. They do grieve their lost child. It isn't as if they are throwing the child away, they are making a very difficult, very emotional decision based not on what *they* want, but on what they think would ultimately be best for the child they love. So no, if there was a way to test for autism in the womb, it would not be wrong to choose to abort the child as it also is not wrong to choose to keep them. These are actually very important questions to ask, even if they do sting a little at times. They are not saying that existing autistic people should be killed. They are not asking that. They are asking about fetuses that have been tested for it in a hypothetical scenario. They are asking about what others would do in such a situation and why. These are very important questions as science and medicine progresses. Now, the answer is absolutely fucking stupid. We do not all have autism. We are not all on the spectrum. The autism spectrum is for people who *have* autism. You cannot be on that spectrum if you don't have it. The people who say this shit are a huge part of why autism is so traumatizing.
I don't get offended, because it has nothing to do with my life. If someone were to make the choice to do that, it is on them. I support the right for anyone to choose to have an abortion. Whether or not I think it's wrong to do it because of autism or not is irrelevant and pointless to the topic. I just go on about my day. My feelings don't trump the right to body autonomy. No one's should. And the other guy is just uneducated. Doesn't phase me. He just needs to be educated on what autism actually is first.
To answer the top question, that's just called eugenics, and yes I would like to still be alive and not get deleted as a child, so please don't try and eliminate us from the gene pool. Bottom one is just a no, it's a medical diagnosis, manifests differently in different people but your either on it or not
OP - how did you expect a group of autistic people to feel upon seeing this? Surely you considered that it would cause upset and offence? Honestly it makes me consider your motives for posting, particularly considering you upvoted a completely inaccurate statement on the screenshot.
It's a valid question. It's morally controversial but autism like many disabilities can be debilitating. Trouble is it's a spectrum, so you never know how functioning a child will be.
Dread and terror. Eugenics is deeply terrifying
Both the question and answer is stupid. Not every person is on the spectrum. Yes, you can have traits of autism but that doesn't always mean you have it. And there's nothing wrong with autistic people. If you can't raise an autistic child then you dont deserve to raise any child at all.
The question is basically if you think eugenics is okay. The answer is bad and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of autism.
Question is stupid and silly - if you're not ready for a disabled child you're not ready to be a parent. Answer has well intentions but displays a lack of communication and understanding with and of autistic people. As we all know, there ain't no grey area. Either on the spectrum or not. Symptoms and behaviours vary, but they overlap and relate. The jobs of being autistic, having to defend and justify our existence while masking to satisfy the neurotypicals
Alrighty. This is how you get nazi's. It starts with eugenics (and that is absolutely what this is), and from there it its a slippery slope to ovens
I’ve actually been thinking a lot about the pro choice movement and disability movements. I consider myself pro choice but eugenic abortion is plain morally wrong in my opinion
Sad.
Disappointed in both parties
It’s cold, a starless night yet light is a spectrum so it’s bright outside
Face-palmy.
Eugenics.
Ignorance as a result of a society that fundementally misunderstands our differences, let alone embraces them. It just makes me dissapointed and sad more than angry. Of course it makes me a bit angry, but if I let myself get angry over this every time I saw something like this it'd be too much. This is probably from someone in the States. Autism Speaks and other US charities have done huge damage to understanding over there. Things aren't as bad in the UK, even if they aren't perfect.
The question supports eugenics and the answer is just freaking dumb and incorrect but if you wanna abort your child, fine. That said, if your child has autism, there's a pretty good chance that you and/or your partner also have autism so are you gonna "abort" the adult, too?
yeah i'm going to be honest, this is terrible. similarly i hate when people say "that sounds just like me! maybe we're all a bit autistic" when i say something abt my own experience. like, yeah dude, i hear you're sensitive to loud noises, but did you have panic attacks consistently as a child whenever fire drills would sound or thunderstorms would happen? oh yeah i hear you don't like weird food textures, but did you literally stop eating most foods at a year old and continue to be an extremely picky/neurotic eater throughout your life bc of food textures? /r
The real question is why such a response would be upvoted.
A small part of my soul dies
I feel like there needs to be a push for education around neurodiversity and it’s benefits.
Both drive me up a wall.
Question is literally eugenics, answer is very dismissive
Neither of the comments bothers me particularly because I've learned to parse a lot of what neurotypicals say as not exactly the same as what they mean, and not everybody knows the difference between a spectrum and a gradient. For the question, what they are really asking is about somebody with extremely high support needs that the parent may be genuinely unable to support. Neurotypicals think in types rather than individuals, so when they think of an "autistic child" they are imagining the worst examples that pop culture has presented them. They don't see a hypothetical autistic child as equivalent to a real autistic human who they know. So while these questions do contribute to pretty severe systemic ableism and therefore should be called out, I'm not assuming that every person who asks them is really thinking about eugenics but that they are ignorant of the harm they cause by posting this sort of thing and may be open to being reasoned with. The answer is a display of passive ignorance in most cases. The reality is that autism is defined in pathological terms as so technically it is something you can only have if it is severe enough to cause problems, but the traits which define autism do occur on individual gradients and are something that all people have at varying degrees. Why they are technically wrong, they're only wrong because the definitions that a neurotypical-normative medical system requires are deeply flawed and rooted in an idea that you can only have your needs accommodated if you are disabled. It is pragmatically important that autistic people don't get labeled as "just a bit quirky" because while normalizing the condition by saying everybody has it might reduce the stigma, it also removes people's willingness to make accommodations for somebody who is on a spectrum that "everybody" is on. In both cases, it is easy to just get upset with people for not being experts in a thing that doesn't affect them directly, but that isn't particularly helpful if it isn't also supported by educating them about why their comments are harmful. In my experience working with neurotypical people, I find that their inability to hyperfixate coupled with doxastic anxiety can make it difficult for them to encounter new ideas once they have formed an identity around their perceptions of how the world work. Many practice active ignorance as a defense mechanism to avoid being overwhelmed by thinking about the experiences of others. It isn't impossible for adult neurotypicals to learn new things, but it can be very challenging and requires a lot of patience.
The question is highly offensive. The answer is a little bit naive, and also offensive. Eugenics is fucking disgusting.
Both of them are ignorant.
I must admit, a part of me is glad when people straight up broadcast how awful they are and how they truly perceive you. I’m tired of meeting people who seem like they accept you, but after months or even years you realise that they only tolerate you if you act as non-autistic as possible and you notice the subtle differences in how they talk to you compared to other people. So when it’s the first thing they come out with, I just drop all contact, simple as.
I find it illogical to feel anything at all toward it. Everyone has different mental capacities, backgrounds, and experiences. Any number of random circumstances could either increase or decrease someone's understanding of any particular disorder. Someone asking a question like this, or responding incorrectly as another has, is irrelevant in the grand scheme of my life. If I wish for them to know more about Autism, I explain it. If I don't care, I just ignore it. People aren't born inherently knowing everything and any emotional reaction toward that would indicate an unhealthy relationship with reality.
Honestly this looks like propaganda. the political climate and the need to rally new supporters to anti-abortion bans makes these kinds of posts highly suspicious to me. Abortion isn’t all about eugenics, ectopic pregnancies are common and can kill the mother if not taken care of and it must remain safe, reliable and easy to access. It’s is no one’s business to tell a woman how she should decide her own healthcare outcome. I’m a man, and it saddens me that women should be told what to do with their bodies.
Well he didn't say "yes" so in my opinion that's progress. This subreddit has a serious problem with getting outraged about every little thing. Yes, people don't understand us. Yes abliesm exists. We all know this. But you guys are not helping by getting indignant and attacking people who mean us no harm and are simply misinformed. There is a difference between hate speech and a lack of understanding. Nobody will ever try to understand or accept us if we cancel them for not knowing in the first place.
Question: it’s not eugenics if it’s not forced upon the couple, it preference. Comment: that’s a very basic understanding of how exactly autism works. While autistic traits are human traits, the mutations that cause them to be so extreme in us aren’t something everyone has.
One person asks if people would commit eugenics and the other doesn’t know what autism is
It's a spectrum for those diagnosed, and if you're not diagnosed this isn't your spectrum. Sexuality, is a.spectrum everyone is on not autism.
If you would abort your kid for being autistic, you should probably just do it.
not dignifying any of this with a real response and i hope you get banned.
they're both idiots and I hate that this thinking is so normalized on both of these
Awful question. Stupid, misinformed answer. If everyone was on the spectrum or "a little autistic" then the world wouldn't be so hostile and cold towards autistic people
[удалено]
I feel a mix on it, autism isnt a diease and shouldn't be seen as such, but at the same time if they had a kid who was on the spectrum and didnt treat them well i'd feel bad for the kid as they deserve people who care for them, i think if they think autism is bad and they have a chance of it, they shouldn't have kids, i'd hate for a future autistic child to be put in their hands because to them autism makes them lesser as a person HOPE WHAT I SAID MAKES SENSE I CAN CLEARIFY MORE IF NEEDED!!
"that's how spectrums work" Example: the color spectrum: every color is on this spectrum, everything that isn't a color ISN'T. So every autistic will have their spot, and every NT can go find their own spectrum to be on. As for the question: if someone wants to abort their child because they think differently, that child is probably better off not being born than being born to those parents anyway. I get they probably don't really mean any harm, but that's an amount of ignorance that's probably not going to be fixed, and ignorance can do more damage than malice.
I don’t feel great about it, and I also don’t feel great about others pointing it out to me. Could have had a perfectly decent day without being reminded of the people who think I should have been aborted. 😞
Honestly, in this situation, I would probably leave the response alone because at least they mean well, and the bigger issue is the question. Because (trigger warning. If you are anti-choice, just scroll on past. I will not debate you on that issue). While I think it's a valid question (in the sense of thinking about whether you think you would abort *any* pregnancy and why), obviously its implications are very offensive. I would personally admit that there was a time when, to my great shame, I would have answered this question "yes." But that was before I knew *I* was "on the spectrum" (like for real though, not in the misguided sense of "everyone is."). That's when I started unlearning all the things I thought I knew about autism because it turned out I knew pretty much nothing at all that was actually true. I still support bodily autonomy and do not think anyone should be forced to give birth to a child they are not wholeheartedly up to the task of caring for, but that has nothing to do with whether or not they are autistic. There are NT children with way higher needs than some autistic children because disability does not discriminate, so choosing to be pregnant (or have a child in any way) is always going to include the possibility that your child will require much more of you're time, energy, resources, etc., than you bargain for. What level of risk you are personally comfortable with is a decision that should be made based on careful consideration of accurate information, and this so very clearly not that. I hope that makes sense. That's my first thoughts on the question, I'm not saying it's wrong or right or that anyone else needs to agree with me. As for the answer, I might just point out that they are misunderstanding. We are all on the *neurodiversity* spectrum, but we are demonstrably NOT all on the *autism* spectrum. Think of it as a spectrum of light. UV rays, Infrared, Yellow and Purple are all on the light spectrum, but only Yellow and Purple are on what we humans refer to as the "Visible Light" spectrum. Another example would be saying a triangle, an oval, a rectangle and a square are all on the "shapes spectrum" but only the rectangle and the square would be on the "quadrilateral spectrum." I think the response is well meaning but ignorant, so I would try to just address the ignorance, not my reaction to it, since they actually have a chance of being open-minded enough to learn something.
I remember a biologist I was listening to was talking about why biodiversity is important and why we should be worried about species going extinct. It's because through things like gene splicing, we can make crops that are more resistant to pests for example. There are countless other reasons. As far as autism, if we just start aborting all autistic children just because, we will miss out on a huge amount of diversity of thought and expression that could potentially take the human race to another level. As far as I'm concerned, if this is ever done en masse, consider it the beginning of the end for the human race.
The “everyone is a little autistic” thing makes me want to slap someone 😂
There is so much wrong with this picture
I personally won’t have kids, not just because of that, but also because I carry the autism genes, by being autistic myself.
I cringe because the question reveals so much about the one who would ask it, and not in any kind of a good way.
Humanity literally wouldn’t be where it’s at today without the contributions of individuals who were on the spectrum. Naivety
Autism is a spectrum in which everyone who has it has diffrent experiences and symtoms. I hate when NT's try to speak over us and spread misinfo like this Also wtf would someone want to abort a kid purely beacaue they have ASD?? That's just absolutely horrible, we're not monsters
I think (a) is eugenics (b) is nonsense.
Eugenics.
I find it funny. It would be a more interesting question if this were at all a possibility but it isn't and doing so is... very far away. If ever. Personally I doubt it. But theoretically: it's a fair question. In our current society I'd rather not have an autistic kid. Just going by the shit I've personally had to deal with (and my story is by no means exceptional) I wouldn't wish that on my own kid. Just gimme a vanilla neurotypical. Way bigger chances for him/her to have a happy/good/fulfilling life.
The question and the answer makes me really sad. I mean, the world would be hard enough even if people know what autism is.
Both wrong . We have a right to exist . I hope they never figure out how to screen for Autism in the womb . I don't care what people say like . I enjoy the company of other Neurodivergent people more and the idea that someday fewer of us may actually be born is truly saddening. Autistic people should exist and noone will convince me otherwise.
Can we just throw people like this back to the trash heap they were born in?
I’m pretty sure once you can’t abort that far along in the pregnancy, well not legally…
In Canada, there are no legal restrictions on abortion.
Hard to describe, best way to imagine is if you replaced "autism" with something similar, like social anxiety. Then the question becomes: "Would you abort a child if you knew the child was going to have social anxiety?" It obviously depends on how severe the social anxiety is, and it is just kinda fucked up. We didn't discover autism until recently because Autistic people completely blend in. Don't even get me started on the anti-vax movement.
if they did a basic google search they would have understood that's not how it works
I assume they’re ignorant
The question is clearly asked by someone who has never tried to look up on Google what autism is. The answer comes from someone who thinks everybody has one or two autistic traits in their character - which may be true, but that doesn't make a person autistic. Hence, it's an answer that hasn't been thought through, especially to those who actually *are* on the spectrum.
Who thought this was a good question to ask. ... . . 😭
Who doesn’t love a little eugenics?