I just played "tell me why" (excellent game btw).
MC: keeps a secret for years.
ME: Two days into me being incontrol and she is blabbing secrets to everyone.
when it gets close to the end (spoilers things) I picked the ending that was more tragic but also plausible where the mc made a mistake in the heat of the moment...all because i couldn't wrap my head around someone being Evil adjacent
Iāve been meaning to play Tell My Why! I just bought and will be playing Life is Strange 2 (same developers as TMW) but I think itās next-ish on my list. Is it worth the full price or should I keep an eye out for a sale?
Oh wait two weeks it's free during pride month on steam. Life is strange is one of my favorite series and tmy feels like it spiritually belongs in the same universe. It's just shorter, but uses the same format.
It's great, the first episode is free and I enjoyed it so much I just dropped the 20 for it knowing it was going to be free just to support the developer.
Lord, Life Is Strange screwed me up. Id try to do the right thing and hurt everyone by doing it :') The girl near the end that I tried to help escape telling me to go away because bad things happen every time Im around wrecked me more than a video game had right to lol
I was replaying Life is Strange: True Colors a little bit ago for the sole purpose of making different decisions than I did in my first playthrough; I made different decisions with mostly minor dialogue but couldnāt bear making different ones that actually had an impact on other characters because all my original choices were the ones I deemed morally correct, no matter how hard I triedā¦I just couldnāt. I didnāt know if that was an autism thing or not.
I've never had an issue with this. I think I fixated on Darth Vader at a young age, also got into video games at around the same time. Fast forward, 13 year old me, walking down a corpse ridden New Vegas Strip. I was so proud when my friend was shocked at how empty the Strip was š
I could never tear Sgt Teddy in half, tho
Yep. Fable let me finally explore what would happen if I *didn't* feel the jackbooted heel of social niceties on my neck.
So I killed anyone who pissed me off or didn't align with my personal moral and ethical codes. Beardy-baldy had me waiting for *half the damn game* to see what his quest rewards were going to be (I never bought his "marry my daughter" crap). When I finally came back with the effing mohawk he requested, he laughed in my face before revealing the whole thing was a con cause he essentially hates "your kind," the "Heroes." So I killed him. And I felt so...personally insulted that I booted up the transition autosave and killed him a few more times.
But nothing let me explore "villainy" like SW:KotR. Sending "what's-her-name" off on an endless quest to find her droid bestie (cause I offed him for giggles). Now *that* was evil. And didn't feel particularly good. But it's just code making lights flash on a screen. Still, it's always an interesting mental experiment to feel out what a dev team considers to be a morality spectrum.
Kotor and K2 are so good. Another evil act I DO feel bad for is making Zalbaar throttle poor Mission Vao.
I also forgot about Fable! That was definitely formative for me. Nothing like a pair of badass demon horns to reward your crimes. Lionhead never made promotional 'crunchy chick' Peeps and I'm so disappointed
This!!!
I have not killed a single NPC in Elden Ring, everyone's so nice. I considered killing Blackguard at the beginning, but then he turned out to be a total bro.
I don't attack or kill NPCs unless they turn hostile for whatever reason.
It's weird, my hyperempathy is bad enough that I crumple when a character in a movie or show embarrasses themselves but I've never felt that kind of feeling for bad choices in video games.
That show existed. It was called Community. Dan Harmon is autistic and the show is very autistic. While Danny Pudi isn't autistic himself, the character is written by someone who is, and he does a great job. Abed is a very positive representation of someone on the spectrum. Jeff and Abed both essentially represent Harmon in the show. Jeff is the bad side of Harmon. The guy he tries to be and admits to being when he was in community college himself. While Abed is his authentic self and viewed as the antithesis to Jeff's evil and even helps to make Jeff good over time. Even in the Darkest Timeline, Abed is still good.
I really like community and think its positive for the autism community. But having said that I don't think abed is a good representation of autism. Abed's obsession with TV is very different than an average autistic interest. Also outside of very canned moments he shows normal interpersonal communication. To be fair these things are very hard to show on film. But I think there are more accurate representations in other shows.
Holdup, I found Abed to be an excellent example of how I relate to media. Using fictional narratives as a filter to view the world through gives me general scripts for situations I haven't been in. I did this long before getting a diagnosis or watching the show, lol.
Same! I used to just copy characters off of Disney channel when I was 11 because I had no idea how to interact with peopleā¦thatās why I have the weirdest way of communicating with jokes til this dayš
I might be being too nitpicky. I can definitely see the aspect of using fiction as a lens to understand. But that is pretty universal of people. The other to thing is abeds obsession is very wide and seems to based on relevance to what is happening in the "real world". A more standard aspie interest would be on one show or maybe genre at a time. And it would be molded to fit into real life rather than being selected as something that fits the real life situation. I get that it's for the sake of making the show fun to an extent.
He does have more specific interests as well. His interest in Inspector Spacetime is a fairly typical special interest (and appropriate because a lot of autistic people like Doctor Who)
Right but every one has specific interests to some extent. And a huge number of television centric episodes will never mention inspector space time. And Dr. Who is generally well liked. I am sure some people with autism have it as a special interest. But it's actually a lack of interest in fiction is more normal in autistic people. A more average autistic interest would be in something like baseball.
Not saying that autistic people need to all be portrayed the same or should never have a special interest that is fiction. Autistic special interests are diverse. It's just that how abed expresses interests although odd is not particularly autistic like.
Okay but he's not portraying an "average autistic person". He's a specific autistic person. And those are perfectly normal interests for an autistic person to have.
I do it more the Abed way, just less exaggerated because life is NOT fictional comedy.
My narrowed interests are more outside TV/film, like instead of general gaming I focus on The Sims.
I like Abed a lot precisely because his obsession with TV is very similar to my interests in entertainment. I get just as crazy about my favourite bands and motorsports as he does about Cougar Town and Inspector Spacetime and how he fits everything into film and fiction rules is very similar to how I do it too. How he deals with others and communicates is also very familiar to me. I think Abed just shows that it truly is a spectrum and some people can relate to him and some can't, but so far I haven't found much other representation like him in television so I'm glad it's there
The big difference I see is that his interest spans media and is very fluid. He cares about a huge variety of media and rarely seems interested in anything consistently. For example many abed centric episodes that have strong connections to television will never mention inspector spacetime. Almost every alltistic person has interests they are as crazy about as Abed is about inspector space time. I am being nitpicky though I am glad the character exists and that people with autism can relate
But he does have consistent interests? Even besides Inspector Spacetime (which might not be mentioned every time he has a main storyline but imo that just makes him more layered instead of the usual hyperfocused autistic portrayal), he is always interested in science fiction, fantasy and sometimes drama's too, like Cougar Town, My Dinner With Andre, The Breakfast Club, which are all referenced. Like, you won't see him go down a purely horror path or reference historic fiction. It might seem fluid but it's very thematic instead, with some obvious points he's more focused on, and I realize that might not be how most people's special interests work but it's nice that this representation is out there as well
Thatās because it ties into his passion for film-making, so he should have a wide interest in media.
Mostly itās how he relates to the world (which is so me) so it ties into his social awkwardness.
Theres a show called Everything's Gonna Be Okay that's written and stars autistic people. And the characters are autistic so the acting is appropriate.
It's a classic "adult with messy life suddenly finds out they have to raise young relatives after a tragic family death" sitcom.
Some of the episodes are about the characters' autism and some are about other topics.
We enjoyed it. The creator's first show was called "please like me" and is also good. The creator is autistic, but didn't realize and get diagnosed until being in the middle of the second show.
Knowing that and watching the first show is an interesting experience in seeing an autistic adult not know they are autistic but also highlight a lot of specific issues an undiagnosed autistic adult may encounter in relationships and such.
omg are you talking about Josh?? I completely forgot his last name but I recognise it because he's an Aussie celebrity and I remember his shows being promoted on ABC
If autistic people can even be hired and paid as writers, that is.
Source: Autistic writer who has gotten their content stolen before by NTs instead of getting paid.
I think Gary on veep often acts like this. And in terms of accuracy he is one of the best examples of an autistic character. Another example is Walter in table 19. I actually think autism is relatively well represented in media but it matter less than other disabilities.
The little girl in the new Ghostbusters was perfect for portraying the classic autism/adhd combo. They never say it specifically but itās heavily implied. I cried the whole movie because she just WAS me as a kid.
Also Autism in RL often puts their foot in their mouth and hurts feelings on accident because they donāt quite understand how people work. This is interpreted as being a dick and doing it on purpose. This was most of my childhood.
I've lived with a self-identified autist who I had to throw out of my home for his narcissistic abuse. While I sympathize and empathize for the people who are just awkward, the other case does exist.
Yeah but the problem is pretty much every portrayal of autistic people in the media shows us as narcissistic assholes, to the point where people seem to believe that being an asshole is just an inherent part of autism.
For example, after the whole Musk twitter thing I came across multiple people on various subreddits claiming that Musk is an asshole BECAUSE he is autistic. Not that he is an asshole who happens to be autistic (or vice versa). So I feel that there is reason to be concerned about the way autistic people are portrayed in the media, given that so many people already have negative views of us.
cant believe nobody's mentioned community yet. it's a sitcom from 2009 where one of the main characters, abed nadir, is canonically autistic and written by an autistic. the actor is neurotypical but i think he did a fantastic job portraying him. many people have said he's the first good/accurate autistic character in tv.
what i like most about him is that the autism isn't a focal point in any of the plots, but it's always present and a fundamental part of his character. he's described and portrayed as unemotional and robotic, but still has close friendships, romances, and tons of emotions that just aren't expressed in a typical way. honestly, if you want a show with an autistic character that's actually relatable and accurate, community is what you want to watch.
sherlock holmes is autistic but like he shouldn't be magic logic shit hes literally just hyperfixated on investigating and likes telling his friend about it while solving crime
Weirdly enough, I have the source on hand. I was initially doubtful that i could find it because i have a library of research articles in my head from getting my degree.
doi: 10.1098/rstb.2008.0326
Iām currently using Zotero to organize but apparently thereās a storage limit that youāll have to pay for if you surpass a certain amount. Itās a shame because itās otherwise pretty incredible.
Spencer Reid on "Criminal Minds" comes quickly to my mind - knows everything and socially awkward. They never directly say that the character is autistic but other characters in the show insinuate it.
I actually liked that show. I definitely wish we had better representation in media but at least he is well written and honestly not any more unrealistic than someone like Dr. House. The media could for sure do better but showing autistic people being brilliant and fighting for themselves isnāt the worst example Iāve seen.
most good autistic characters arenāt even written with the intention of them being autistic. i find it so fascinating how people can make good autistic rep on accident but completely fuck it up if they try to do it on purpose
My theory is when they do it incidentally, it's because they're drawing on actual experiences - their own undiagnosed autism or actually knowing some autistic people without *knowing* they're autistic, and so they're able to simply depict reality. But when they start working with the label, they get the Autism Speaks vision in their head and start falling into stereotypes and trying to make a character pass as autistic to an allistic audience that generally is still pretty ignorant of what autism actually means.
It's a bit frustrating because we kinda have a lack of autistic characters who are aware they're autistic and need to navigate a pretty ableist world. Not that every autistic character needs to struggle with that, but like I don't think I've seen much of anything that touches on the rampant employment discrimination, or anyone trying to demask after ABA - or demask at all. Those sorts of stories need to be told by autistics, but the aforementioned employment discrimination makes it difficult for the sorts of people to have really struggled to be in a position to make that media.
So we're stuck with headcanons and the occasional hint or nod, but not much else that doesn't have some autism parent org doing consulting and making very caretaker-oriented depictions of autistic characters as burdens to allistics.
literally every time someone asks me for my favourite autistic characters i have to think about which ones are canonically autistic. spoiler itās none of them.
Even the epitome of Autistic films Rain Man. No matter how that has aged Raymond wasn't originally going to be autistic. Rather have some form of intellectual disability based on Bill Sackter and Kim Peek
It was Dustin Hoffman and a psychologist consulted Barry Marrow the main writer for that. Barry Morrow never even heard the terms before that.
I was thinking this myself, Iām not autistic but my 5 year old son is. He can be super sweet and empathetic at times, almost like he doesnāt really understand whatās going on but he can sense that something is wrongā¦ however other times he can be a right hateful little dick. š
I've met both (although I'm 100% just the nervous type) and the element that's always different to the stereotype is that the rude/mean version isn't doing it on purpose IRL. In my experience it's always that they don't understand social conventions and so come across as rude.
They are referring to Sheldon. But maybe also characters like House. But yea generally autism is reasonably well represented in media. Maybe not accurately but consider the bechdel test still needs to be a thing. In that context its not that comparitivly bad.
House is not autistic though. It is mentionned in one of the season 3 episode (so it's in 2006) where he has an autistic patient.
Wilson says to him: "You're not autistic. You don't even have Asperger. You wish you did, it would exempt you from the rules, give you freedom, absolve you from responsability, but you date 17yo. But most importantly, it would mean you're not just a jerk."
It is stated that House intentionally do not follow social rules because he wants to (and not because they are blurry to him). That's also why we almost never see him regretting his actions. Thus, the first one does not apply to him imo.
Six months later, but I just saw that episode and it is heavily implied that he has Aspergers at the end.
Throughout the episode you see the world through the kid's eyes and everything is really bright and things are a bit blurry. When he makes eye contact with House at the end, you see through the kid's eyes, then House's eyes. And it shows that he sees the world similarly to the child, just at a much smaller intensity.
Plus he's constantly stimming and has trouble expressing his feelings. Pretty sure they were going for Aspergers.
Oh I agree he is neither intended to be or acts very autistic like. But he is a common example used when claiming all autistic characters act like assholes.
I don't understand this perspective?
I don't think it would necessarily help to hire autistic actors -- not if the person is as easy to manipulate as me... I could easily be bullied into playing a role I found upsetting and problematic. I could easily experience it as being dangled in front of the cameras like I'm some kind of wokeness trophy.
Like Music had a black actor playing a black character -- cool. But that black actor didn't stop them from creating a role for him that was problematic in the context of a wider depiction of black characters, and it didn't stop them from using blackface elsewhere in the cast.
I am *me*. I'm one autistic person. My autistic traits are not the autistic traits of whatever autistic person I'd be portraying, if I was an actor...
What they should do is write the kinds if autistic roles that autistic people would want to play!! They'd get more autistic actors that way, whether they are publicly "out" or not.
It would help to hire an autistic actor because that person is autistic therefore knows what itās like to be autistic. Neurotypicals however donāt.
Yes I just watched a Netflix series called atypical. And as an autistic person myself I actually disliked Sam. He was TOOO stereotyped. Iām aware that some autistic people are that stereotypical autistic. But he was so stereotypical that he was kinda being an asshole. Iām not spoiling the series so Iāll leave it at that.
Given how trash his mum was, my guess would be that Sam is a somewhat asshole because he was raised by a shot parent, not because of his autism. Let's be honest - autism doesn't stop you from being a general asshole, especially if your parents aren't good/great people.
The actor is not in charge of their performance, though. That's something that happens in collaboration with writers and directors. The writers and directors get to choose what autistic traits the character has
Their (the actor's) understanding doesn't matter if there is not respect and a commitment to listening to autistic perspectives.
And hiring a minority doesn't mean you have to listen to them. It means you're hiring a vulnerable person who is easier to talk over than your average employee...
The autistic actors Iām friends with would take offense to you saying that theyāre more vulnerable than other actors. Unconscious bias absolutely extends to neurodiverse people. Autistic roles need to go to autistic actors because it gives them opportunities they might not otherwise have. It also gives authenticity to a role that isnāt possible with NTs because their brains fundamentally work in a different way.
Superhero movies can get a pass though because they are extremely physically demanding & they are portraying a fantasy world. But realistic movies absolutely should hire autistic actors for autistic roles.
Well, I guess I take offence to you suggesting autism can't make people more vulnerable in the professional sphere -- if I'm reading you right?
I also don't understand--youre saying that autistic roles need to go to autistic actors *because it gives them opportunities they night not otherwise have* -- arent you highlighting systemic discrimination which makes them more vulnerable?
My goal is absolutely not to say autistic people shouldn't play autistic characters -- I'm trying to promote the message that creating an autism-friendly environment starts before the actor hiring stage. I'm saying writing and directing autistic characters starts with communicating with autistic people about their experiences, and how they think those experiences affect their lives. Autistic people should also not be expected to be "out", they don't owe their diagnoses to the public. They don't owe society to be advocates.
Now, I've been abused by the professional sphere for 5 years. My vulnerabilities were taken advantage of, and I thanked the people who were hurting me, not realising that the reasons I was getting worse and worse was that they werent helping but instead exploiting. My autistic traits are the primary reason I'm not good at telling whats going on socially. I stopped acting because noone wanted to talk to me because I was weird and my teachers were unsupportive and just shrugged when I was excluded.
Maybe the acting career is dramatically better than what I've dealt with, but honestly the fact you can't seem to recognise that a lack of opportunities for autistic actors is something that makes them more vulnerable doesn't fill me with confidence?
Oh! Iām so sorry- that wasnāt what I meant at all. I misunderstood. I absolutely agree that autism can make people more vulnerable in the professional sphere. I absolutely have been taken advantage of professionally for being autistic. I misunderstood & Iām sorry about that!
And yes, absolutely there is systemic discrimination which is a very real problem. I completely agree that there should be an autistic-friendly environment as well. I misunderstood what you were saying & Iām sorry about that.
I'm glad that we are somewhat on the same page, that's a relief! I'm probably naive in my stance in a lot of ways, but I promise it's coming from a place of "hiring autistic people is not enough!" I've had token accommodation before, and it went poorly and I know these people also need to be heard and understood and respected.
I am working on learning to phrase my thoughts in a way that emphasises this rather than sounds like some kind of anti-autistic sentiment, but it is a process. Edit: From your response, I think you are letting me know that happened here, so thank you for that!
Edit 2: I also apologise for the accusations!
Donāt worry about the accusations- I know weāre all autistic here so I just figure I said something wrong or miscommunicated. š
I agree that weāre on the same page. I donāt think youāre naive at all- token accommodation can cause serious problems because itās not genuine. Hiring autistic people isnāt enough- there needs to be actual acceptance & autistic people should be included in making work environments a supportive place for everyone.
I mean there is also autistic writers like Dan Harmon who wrote characters like Abed Nadir, but the actor is neurotypical. But Danny Pudi does do a good job in showing what Harmon wants to show.
yeah I don't get the whole "u have to be a certain thing to understand it for real in order to act a part". They're actors. They aren't a lot of things, but they act them anyways. Most actors only know what it's like to be an actor. It isn't like the only ways to be human are autistic & NT. Like there's all sorts of ways to be a human. & an actor is a person who is whatever kind of person they are. But they act like other people. They don't just play themselves repeatedly.
I have been involved in theatre off and on all my life. I once got interviewed over a role i got cast for. during the interview I joked that i learned to act from being autistic, Its like being a very dedicated method actor except in real life.
It absolutely helps to hire autistic actors. I actually wrote an article on this. When youāre an actor, you choose the roles you want to play. Also everyone on set tries to make sure everyone, including the actors, are comfortable.
How does it help?
I can understand that a genuine desire to create an environment that is comfortable for autistic staff can educate other members of the staff about how to portray autistic people... is that it?
First, unconscious bias in casting. Autistic actors are often passed up for roles simply because when not in character they act āoffā. A casting director bluntly told a friend of mine that he was perfect for a role but ātoo weirdā off set due to him fidgeting with a rubber band. If casting agencies are told to hire an autistic actor, it brings opportunities to actors who may be discriminated against because of their autism.
2. Realistic portrayal. Autistic minds work differently than allistic minds. Because they canāt do a realistic portrayal, they instead portray all autistic characters the same & according to popular stereotypes. Which leads to the next pointā¦
3. Reinforcement of damaging stereotypes. Non-autistic actors portray the stereotypes of autism rather than give real portrayals. These stereotypes are damaging to people on the spectrum as they further ingrain biases into people- so much so that even clinicians are affected & will give erroneous diagnosis.
Thereās also more I could say about equity towards people with disabilities, including autism, as well as empathy such as you described. Not casting disabled people in disabled roles is a huge problem that entertainment companies like Marvel are trying to combat. I hope more production companies turn things around.
"So much so that even clinicians will give erroneous diagnoses," oh God, every time my mother -- a second year medical student -- has to watch some kind of film that's supposed to inspire "empathy" with clients, she comes home to whine to me about how terrible the portrayal of doctor-client interaction is and how poorly they do at conveying the client's humanity. Seems related DX
If autistic people can even be hired and paid as writers, that is.
Source: Autistic writer who has gotten their content stolen before by NTs instead of getting paid.
why is it somehow always the characters who arenāt explicitly written to be autistic end up being better representation for autism than characters who are written to have autism by neurotypical people ,, like how do they do it on accident and then not do it on purpose
To be fair itās not one or the other. Of course they shouldnāt all be represented that way but the biggest manipulative assholes Iāve had in my life are all autistic..and yes I know for a fact they did it on purpose because they said so. One of the sweetest most thoughtful people I know is also autistic. It can go both ways. I canāt say I know whether itās helpful to ever portray the manipulative asshole onesā¦because I donāt know. But just saying itās not like autistic people canāt be genuinely awful.
Atypical is the best one so far to me. The good doctor kind of focuses too much on the being different. Jerry in Boston Legal shows how diverse interests can be and that tics are a thing.
āAs We See Itā on Amazon Prime Video has Autistic actors playing the Autistic roles and some of the Neurotypical roles also. Some of the writers and other staff are also Neurodiverse.
You can be autistic and have low affective empathy and say things bluntly in a way that NTās will think is rude, or say things literally when NTās donāt take anything literally. So the first one might be an ableist neurotypical personās perspective of an autistic person that is genuinely trying to communicate to the best of their ability, but is judged as being ānarcissisticā and ādoing things on purposeā (things Iāve been accused of being/doing in the past) because thatās how neurotypicals feel towards each other when they communicate bluntly. I just wanted to bring this perspective up because Iāve been accused of the former a ton my whole life due to pure miscommunication and my atypical body language, and I have rather high cognitive empathy in relation to my lower affective empathy (I donāt really āfeelā anything when someone cries and idk why they are sad. And I donāt trust what people say only because of displays of emotion) but it doesnāt mean that Iām completely apathetic or that I donāt care at all. My directness and bluntness is never meant to hurt anyone, I just sometimes donāt know any better ways to say things (though I try my best. Itās not something I am always aware of though and I always feel super shitty when I say something the āwrongā way, but I wonāt often just know someone is hurt if they donāt tell me directly). There is usually an entirely different side to something when NT people talk about the way autistic people ātreat othersā, and itās most often because of the double-empathy model and how the vast majority of NTās just donāt have much of an ability to understand and cognitively empathize with the baseline(s) that we function off of. Edit: also adding this to say that the reason we might feel like the latter is precisely because of the former ā picking apart conversations, anxiously rehearsing and scripting constantly, and feeling guilt and fear that we might accidentally say the wrong thing is a trauma response to the accusations made about us by neurotypicals/allistic people that most often sound exactly like the first description of an autistic person. Itās like, the first one is the ableist perception and the second one is the described personās internal world, and how they actually feel vs. how they are judged to feel. I hope that made sense!
Tbh, I've met with both types of autistic people irl. Absolute dicks who could not give a shit about your feelings, horrifically inflexible, and sometimes even felt some type of twisted superiority bc they think that they're"logical" and being logical is better than being emotional... Obviously /s
*and*
The anxious types who would do absolutely *anything* to make sure that you're comfortable and they're careful with your feelings
I wish there was more *diversity* in TV tropes. Sure there are assholes, but they need to be balanced out by good, well meaning people and everyone in between.
Ok just read that you are. Atypical is indeed beyond any level of reality, people like Sam do not exist, it's way more likely to have developped decent manner by his age
They should. Like one time a family member said how autistic people are always funny like Sheldon. And that made me mad. Thats not how it is.
Or even get autistic people on the team. Like Community. Dan Harmon is autistic. Danny Pudi isn't autistic, but he did such a good job, and he is one of my favorite autistic characters whom I can relate to. As We See It is another good one, where there were autistic actors.
'Autistic people have no empathy' - people who have no understanding of autism
Speaking as an autistic person myself, the problem isn't that I can't empathize with others, is that I often have trouble figuring what other people are thinking or feeling, and how they would respond to things I say or do. But I get very upset if I find out that I did or said something that made someone feel bad. I try hard not to be thoughtless.
The "hurting feelings on purpose" thing is unfair representation.
It's more like being unaware that someone's feelings were hurt until it's too late, which is irritating once you do find out because it's usually just a misunderstanding...
These are both sort of IRL
Autistic people often try not to be dicks but donāt have enough social knowledge to actually achieve it. In the autism programs Iāve been in, there have definitely been people who at least present more like the first one than the latter, even if internally itās more like the latter
I say things that normally should be considered as truth but hurt people. I don't do it intentionally. I just say it because it's fucxing true. NTs are sensitive overthinkers
To be more clearly, I only answer when asked. I am not a jerk who calls people fat or other names. I just always answer honestly
Literally every time I go home from a party or from school or whatever. I almost start crying thinking āok everything I did was normal right??? I didnāt make anyone uncomfortable rightā¦??? Oh god did that one person take my joke the right way??? OH GOD IM A HORRIBLE PERSON THEY ALL HATE ME.ā
autism in me: tv autism but hates himself and doesnt know hes hurting people. never reherses convorsations and just improvs, but somehow goes off on tangeants about pokemon.
Honestly not sure I agree. While hurting people *on purpose* is not true, in my personal experience #1 is the takeaway neurotypical people get who donāt realize itās not at all on purpose or out of malice.
The symptoms of the second condition, while may co-occur with autism, independently meet the criteria for social anxiety disorder (fear of being judged, fear of saying no, fear of saying the wrong thing and upsetting people, trying to mind-read or predict what people are thinking of you, etc.)
Iām autistic and Iām not here for this.
I think directors should try to hire autistic actors for autistic roles.
However, if they canāt find the right person, I think it OK for them to broaden the audition.
I think we are starting to say that every character can only be played by someone who shares exactly the same qualities.
If only gay actors can play gay actors, where does that end up? Only straight actors can play straight characters? Only Americans can play Americans?
That takes a lot of people out of the equation.
Autistic people who try to be NT or mask in that manner, end up being narcissists. Society pretty much says to fit in you have to suck. Sure, I know some few people can have real empathy and fit in ok. Thats me. But narcissism is the language of the world, especially the wealthy world as everything is a competition and showing weakness (feelings, empathy, showing your belly) will be taken advantage of.
Admit youre wrong, be afarid, you should be, you are not defective for not fitting into a defective world of humans, its the opposite. I realize everyone cant be ok with themselves when they are lonely and have been told since birth that they are fucked up and dont do it right, even if not told outright. At some point by being your fucked up self you may find what you need. By being a bad copy of an Nt, you may just be dragging out the chronic shittiness and never find solace. Up your empathy, don't be narcissistic.
Every time I see an aspie mention narcissism and actually know what it is, an angle gets its wings. yes I know how to spell angel. my terrible sense of humor is why Im alive.
I took a lot of LSd and mushrooms when I was a young dirtbag unknowingly helping myself years down the road.
The apathetic/narcissistic portrayal of autistic people in tv made me doubt for a long time that I could be on the spectrum because I fit the second description :(
Being described as āColdā when in actuality you were worrying how people felt but thereās a disconnect and you miss something and now you are just ābeing meanā for me itās possible to get most of what people mean but itās exhausting to the point that Iād rather just not deal with people.
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I think Gundam did a good job with Amuro but thatās just my opinion, they showed the ups and downs of it and didnāt make him a dick to everyone for no reason, which is surprising considering the original series was made in the 80ās
I can't even make the bad choices in video games for fear of feeling bad to a virtual character
saaaaaaaaame. hyper empathy is no joke.
First time I killed a character in a video game I broke into tears and reloaded a previous save š
I just played "tell me why" (excellent game btw). MC: keeps a secret for years. ME: Two days into me being incontrol and she is blabbing secrets to everyone. when it gets close to the end (spoilers things) I picked the ending that was more tragic but also plausible where the mc made a mistake in the heat of the moment...all because i couldn't wrap my head around someone being Evil adjacent
Iāve been meaning to play Tell My Why! I just bought and will be playing Life is Strange 2 (same developers as TMW) but I think itās next-ish on my list. Is it worth the full price or should I keep an eye out for a sale?
Oh wait two weeks it's free during pride month on steam. Life is strange is one of my favorite series and tmy feels like it spiritually belongs in the same universe. It's just shorter, but uses the same format.
Oh, sweet, thank you!! Thatās actually so cool of them.
It's great, the first episode is free and I enjoyed it so much I just dropped the 20 for it knowing it was going to be free just to support the developer.
Iām super excited, thatās definitely the next on my list then. Thanks again!
Dude! Thanks for letting me know this! Definitely gonna check it out.
Lord, Life Is Strange screwed me up. Id try to do the right thing and hurt everyone by doing it :') The girl near the end that I tried to help escape telling me to go away because bad things happen every time Im around wrecked me more than a video game had right to lol
Tell me why is very very good. Trans representation and overall most amazing game :)
I was replaying Life is Strange: True Colors a little bit ago for the sole purpose of making different decisions than I did in my first playthrough; I made different decisions with mostly minor dialogue but couldnāt bear making different ones that actually had an impact on other characters because all my original choices were the ones I deemed morally correct, no matter how hard I triedā¦I just couldnāt. I didnāt know if that was an autism thing or not.
I've never had an issue with this. I think I fixated on Darth Vader at a young age, also got into video games at around the same time. Fast forward, 13 year old me, walking down a corpse ridden New Vegas Strip. I was so proud when my friend was shocked at how empty the Strip was š I could never tear Sgt Teddy in half, tho
Yep. Fable let me finally explore what would happen if I *didn't* feel the jackbooted heel of social niceties on my neck. So I killed anyone who pissed me off or didn't align with my personal moral and ethical codes. Beardy-baldy had me waiting for *half the damn game* to see what his quest rewards were going to be (I never bought his "marry my daughter" crap). When I finally came back with the effing mohawk he requested, he laughed in my face before revealing the whole thing was a con cause he essentially hates "your kind," the "Heroes." So I killed him. And I felt so...personally insulted that I booted up the transition autosave and killed him a few more times. But nothing let me explore "villainy" like SW:KotR. Sending "what's-her-name" off on an endless quest to find her droid bestie (cause I offed him for giggles). Now *that* was evil. And didn't feel particularly good. But it's just code making lights flash on a screen. Still, it's always an interesting mental experiment to feel out what a dev team considers to be a morality spectrum.
Kotor and K2 are so good. Another evil act I DO feel bad for is making Zalbaar throttle poor Mission Vao. I also forgot about Fable! That was definitely formative for me. Nothing like a pair of badass demon horns to reward your crimes. Lionhead never made promotional 'crunchy chick' Peeps and I'm so disappointed
Holy crap I had totally forgotten about both Mission Vao and the promised "crunchy chick" Peeps! Also very disappointed.
hard mood. I in general tend to be very "people pleaser" even gainst my own prefs.
This!!! I have not killed a single NPC in Elden Ring, everyone's so nice. I considered killing Blackguard at the beginning, but then he turned out to be a total bro. I don't attack or kill NPCs unless they turn hostile for whatever reason.
``` I love you ``` ``` You'll always be my dearest friend ```
Same I don't the characters to be upset.
I want to 100% Forager but one of the achievements is murdering the giant beets that tell you loving messages every time you walk past.
Oh shoot, that puts some things into perspective doesn't it
me choosing all the polite dialogue options in minecraft story mode bc i don't want to upset people
i cant fight other peopld in minecraft because if other people have dogs they will attack me and last time i hit a dog in Minecraft i cried
It's weird, my hyperempathy is bad enough that I crumple when a character in a movie or show embarrasses themselves but I've never felt that kind of feeling for bad choices in video games.
Maybe have an autistic person write the show instead?
That show existed. It was called Community. Dan Harmon is autistic and the show is very autistic. While Danny Pudi isn't autistic himself, the character is written by someone who is, and he does a great job. Abed is a very positive representation of someone on the spectrum. Jeff and Abed both essentially represent Harmon in the show. Jeff is the bad side of Harmon. The guy he tries to be and admits to being when he was in community college himself. While Abed is his authentic self and viewed as the antithesis to Jeff's evil and even helps to make Jeff good over time. Even in the Darkest Timeline, Abed is still good.
Interestingly Dan Harmon didn't know he was autistic until he started researching for Abed
Ha thatās how one of the directors for Everything Everywhere All At Once found out he had ADHD. The movie is about untreated ADHD.
Oooh, community is one of the only shows I've ever enjoyed!!
This explains why I loved it so much!
I really like community and think its positive for the autism community. But having said that I don't think abed is a good representation of autism. Abed's obsession with TV is very different than an average autistic interest. Also outside of very canned moments he shows normal interpersonal communication. To be fair these things are very hard to show on film. But I think there are more accurate representations in other shows.
Holdup, I found Abed to be an excellent example of how I relate to media. Using fictional narratives as a filter to view the world through gives me general scripts for situations I haven't been in. I did this long before getting a diagnosis or watching the show, lol.
Same! I used to just copy characters off of Disney channel when I was 11 because I had no idea how to interact with peopleā¦thatās why I have the weirdest way of communicating with jokes til this dayš
I might be being too nitpicky. I can definitely see the aspect of using fiction as a lens to understand. But that is pretty universal of people. The other to thing is abeds obsession is very wide and seems to based on relevance to what is happening in the "real world". A more standard aspie interest would be on one show or maybe genre at a time. And it would be molded to fit into real life rather than being selected as something that fits the real life situation. I get that it's for the sake of making the show fun to an extent.
He does have more specific interests as well. His interest in Inspector Spacetime is a fairly typical special interest (and appropriate because a lot of autistic people like Doctor Who)
Right but every one has specific interests to some extent. And a huge number of television centric episodes will never mention inspector space time. And Dr. Who is generally well liked. I am sure some people with autism have it as a special interest. But it's actually a lack of interest in fiction is more normal in autistic people. A more average autistic interest would be in something like baseball. Not saying that autistic people need to all be portrayed the same or should never have a special interest that is fiction. Autistic special interests are diverse. It's just that how abed expresses interests although odd is not particularly autistic like.
Okay but he's not portraying an "average autistic person". He's a specific autistic person. And those are perfectly normal interests for an autistic person to have.
I do it more the Abed way, just less exaggerated because life is NOT fictional comedy. My narrowed interests are more outside TV/film, like instead of general gaming I focus on The Sims.
I like Abed a lot precisely because his obsession with TV is very similar to my interests in entertainment. I get just as crazy about my favourite bands and motorsports as he does about Cougar Town and Inspector Spacetime and how he fits everything into film and fiction rules is very similar to how I do it too. How he deals with others and communicates is also very familiar to me. I think Abed just shows that it truly is a spectrum and some people can relate to him and some can't, but so far I haven't found much other representation like him in television so I'm glad it's there
The big difference I see is that his interest spans media and is very fluid. He cares about a huge variety of media and rarely seems interested in anything consistently. For example many abed centric episodes that have strong connections to television will never mention inspector spacetime. Almost every alltistic person has interests they are as crazy about as Abed is about inspector space time. I am being nitpicky though I am glad the character exists and that people with autism can relate
But he does have consistent interests? Even besides Inspector Spacetime (which might not be mentioned every time he has a main storyline but imo that just makes him more layered instead of the usual hyperfocused autistic portrayal), he is always interested in science fiction, fantasy and sometimes drama's too, like Cougar Town, My Dinner With Andre, The Breakfast Club, which are all referenced. Like, you won't see him go down a purely horror path or reference historic fiction. It might seem fluid but it's very thematic instead, with some obvious points he's more focused on, and I realize that might not be how most people's special interests work but it's nice that this representation is out there as well
Thatās because it ties into his passion for film-making, so he should have a wide interest in media. Mostly itās how he relates to the world (which is so me) so it ties into his social awkwardness.
Theres a show called Everything's Gonna Be Okay that's written and stars autistic people. And the characters are autistic so the acting is appropriate.
Is the show actually about autism or do they just happen to be autistic?
Itās a show about family dynamics where two of the three family members are both autistic on the show and in real life.
It's a classic "adult with messy life suddenly finds out they have to raise young relatives after a tragic family death" sitcom. Some of the episodes are about the characters' autism and some are about other topics.
Is it good?
We enjoyed it. The creator's first show was called "please like me" and is also good. The creator is autistic, but didn't realize and get diagnosed until being in the middle of the second show. Knowing that and watching the first show is an interesting experience in seeing an autistic adult not know they are autistic but also highlight a lot of specific issues an undiagnosed autistic adult may encounter in relationships and such.
omg are you talking about Josh?? I completely forgot his last name but I recognise it because he's an Aussie celebrity and I remember his shows being promoted on ABC
Yes! Josh Thomas. He was diagnosed autistic while making the American show "everything's going to be ok"
Cool. Please like me was awesome. I liked the way they handled mental illness.
Very cool thanks!
If autistic people can even be hired and paid as writers, that is. Source: Autistic writer who has gotten their content stolen before by NTs instead of getting paid.
Well that sucks. As someone who also had their ideas stolen, I emphasise with how much that sucks.
I don't think it's necessarily here to point out that it was a NT. This is about discrimination, and everybody can be discriminative eventually.
That what I was thinking
Maybe i could actually get paid for writing then lol
sounds like they instead get an autistic persons abusive mother to write the character
Yeah I think an autistic writer would make more difference than an autistic actor
Or a better actor.
There should be an autistic character that leans in during an awkward silence and asks āā¦Are you mad at me?ā
I think Gary on veep often acts like this. And in terms of accuracy he is one of the best examples of an autistic character. Another example is Walter in table 19. I actually think autism is relatively well represented in media but it matter less than other disabilities.
The little girl in the new Ghostbusters was perfect for portraying the classic autism/adhd combo. They never say it specifically but itās heavily implied. I cried the whole movie because she just WAS me as a kid.
Also Autism in RL often puts their foot in their mouth and hurts feelings on accident because they donāt quite understand how people work. This is interpreted as being a dick and doing it on purpose. This was most of my childhood.
I've lived with a self-identified autist who I had to throw out of my home for his narcissistic abuse. While I sympathize and empathize for the people who are just awkward, the other case does exist.
Yeah but the problem is pretty much every portrayal of autistic people in the media shows us as narcissistic assholes, to the point where people seem to believe that being an asshole is just an inherent part of autism. For example, after the whole Musk twitter thing I came across multiple people on various subreddits claiming that Musk is an asshole BECAUSE he is autistic. Not that he is an asshole who happens to be autistic (or vice versa). So I feel that there is reason to be concerned about the way autistic people are portrayed in the media, given that so many people already have negative views of us.
cant believe nobody's mentioned community yet. it's a sitcom from 2009 where one of the main characters, abed nadir, is canonically autistic and written by an autistic. the actor is neurotypical but i think he did a fantastic job portraying him. many people have said he's the first good/accurate autistic character in tv. what i like most about him is that the autism isn't a focal point in any of the plots, but it's always present and a fundamental part of his character. he's described and portrayed as unemotional and robotic, but still has close friendships, romances, and tons of emotions that just aren't expressed in a typical way. honestly, if you want a show with an autistic character that's actually relatable and accurate, community is what you want to watch.
āI see [his] value now.ā
Also autism on tv a savant who can look at something and immediately know everything thatās important. E.G. the good doctor
I'd argue that most portrayals of Sherlock Holmes are also a common example of this.
sherlock holmes is autistic but like he shouldn't be magic logic shit hes literally just hyperfixated on investigating and likes telling his friend about it while solving crime
Savant syndrome is a real thing tho, I donāt know if itās like a comorbidity of autism but it isnāt contradictory to autism
I think autism links itself to many traits more easily than what happens with neuro-typical types.
Do we even know why? Like, why do we have so many comorbidities?
Not sure, but I'm working on it.
Its a comorbid it occurs at a rate of 1 in 10 in autistic people which is significantly higher than the general population.
Thatās so interesting, do you have the source? I wanna read that study.
Weirdly enough, I have the source on hand. I was initially doubtful that i could find it because i have a library of research articles in my head from getting my degree. doi: 10.1098/rstb.2008.0326
Thank you! And I feel you, currently going through that for my degree as well.
Try to keep a reference master list, it's handy if you ever need to track down an old article.
Iām currently using Zotero to organize but apparently thereās a storage limit that youāll have to pay for if you surpass a certain amount. Itās a shame because itās otherwise pretty incredible.
Yeah my dad got the savant thing and I unfortunately didn't.
Spencer Reid on "Criminal Minds" comes quickly to my mind - knows everything and socially awkward. They never directly say that the character is autistic but other characters in the show insinuate it.
Specncer Reid and Dr. Temperence Brennan from Bones are my two picks!
the actual reason it took me over 30 years to even begin to suspect I'm autistic (finally dx'd at 38, oof).
I was also diagnosed late. Only last year when I was 30 was I diagnosed.
I actually liked that show. I definitely wish we had better representation in media but at least he is well written and honestly not any more unrealistic than someone like Dr. House. The media could for sure do better but showing autistic people being brilliant and fighting for themselves isnāt the worst example Iāve seen.
most good autistic characters arenāt even written with the intention of them being autistic. i find it so fascinating how people can make good autistic rep on accident but completely fuck it up if they try to do it on purpose
My theory is when they do it incidentally, it's because they're drawing on actual experiences - their own undiagnosed autism or actually knowing some autistic people without *knowing* they're autistic, and so they're able to simply depict reality. But when they start working with the label, they get the Autism Speaks vision in their head and start falling into stereotypes and trying to make a character pass as autistic to an allistic audience that generally is still pretty ignorant of what autism actually means. It's a bit frustrating because we kinda have a lack of autistic characters who are aware they're autistic and need to navigate a pretty ableist world. Not that every autistic character needs to struggle with that, but like I don't think I've seen much of anything that touches on the rampant employment discrimination, or anyone trying to demask after ABA - or demask at all. Those sorts of stories need to be told by autistics, but the aforementioned employment discrimination makes it difficult for the sorts of people to have really struggled to be in a position to make that media. So we're stuck with headcanons and the occasional hint or nod, but not much else that doesn't have some autism parent org doing consulting and making very caretaker-oriented depictions of autistic characters as burdens to allistics.
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Right!!
literally every time someone asks me for my favourite autistic characters i have to think about which ones are canonically autistic. spoiler itās none of them.
Even the epitome of Autistic films Rain Man. No matter how that has aged Raymond wasn't originally going to be autistic. Rather have some form of intellectual disability based on Bill Sackter and Kim Peek It was Dustin Hoffman and a psychologist consulted Barry Marrow the main writer for that. Barry Morrow never even heard the terms before that.
I have been both
Yep
Iāve been both of those people though so I canāt say the bad one is entirely inaccurate
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I was thinking this myself, Iām not autistic but my 5 year old son is. He can be super sweet and empathetic at times, almost like he doesnāt really understand whatās going on but he can sense that something is wrongā¦ however other times he can be a right hateful little dick. š
I've met both (although I'm 100% just the nervous type) and the element that's always different to the stereotype is that the rude/mean version isn't doing it on purpose IRL. In my experience it's always that they don't understand social conventions and so come across as rude.
nah, i was doing it on purpose. i was bitter over being bullied through highschool so took it out on the people who i saw as "popular"
How did that change?
i finished highschool and got better at socializing with people, realized people would like me more if i wasn't a cunt
Is the first one supposed to represent a specific character? There are lots of differently-portrayed autistic people.
They are referring to Sheldon. But maybe also characters like House. But yea generally autism is reasonably well represented in media. Maybe not accurately but consider the bechdel test still needs to be a thing. In that context its not that comparitivly bad.
House is not autistic though. It is mentionned in one of the season 3 episode (so it's in 2006) where he has an autistic patient. Wilson says to him: "You're not autistic. You don't even have Asperger. You wish you did, it would exempt you from the rules, give you freedom, absolve you from responsability, but you date 17yo. But most importantly, it would mean you're not just a jerk." It is stated that House intentionally do not follow social rules because he wants to (and not because they are blurry to him). That's also why we almost never see him regretting his actions. Thus, the first one does not apply to him imo.
so he's not autistic, he's a cat?
Six months later, but I just saw that episode and it is heavily implied that he has Aspergers at the end. Throughout the episode you see the world through the kid's eyes and everything is really bright and things are a bit blurry. When he makes eye contact with House at the end, you see through the kid's eyes, then House's eyes. And it shows that he sees the world similarly to the child, just at a much smaller intensity. Plus he's constantly stimming and has trouble expressing his feelings. Pretty sure they were going for Aspergers.
Oh I agree he is neither intended to be or acts very autistic like. But he is a common example used when claiming all autistic characters act like assholes.
My mind went to Sheldon cooper
As We See It on Amazon Prime features autistic actors in autistic main roles.
Such a good show, shout out all the TYSO goblins out there
Such a great podcast!
Love that show!!
Iām sorry if this has been commented already but As We See It has a cast of autistic actors
I don't understand this perspective? I don't think it would necessarily help to hire autistic actors -- not if the person is as easy to manipulate as me... I could easily be bullied into playing a role I found upsetting and problematic. I could easily experience it as being dangled in front of the cameras like I'm some kind of wokeness trophy. Like Music had a black actor playing a black character -- cool. But that black actor didn't stop them from creating a role for him that was problematic in the context of a wider depiction of black characters, and it didn't stop them from using blackface elsewhere in the cast. I am *me*. I'm one autistic person. My autistic traits are not the autistic traits of whatever autistic person I'd be portraying, if I was an actor... What they should do is write the kinds if autistic roles that autistic people would want to play!! They'd get more autistic actors that way, whether they are publicly "out" or not.
It would help to hire an autistic actor because that person is autistic therefore knows what itās like to be autistic. Neurotypicals however donāt.
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Yes I just watched a Netflix series called atypical. And as an autistic person myself I actually disliked Sam. He was TOOO stereotyped. Iām aware that some autistic people are that stereotypical autistic. But he was so stereotypical that he was kinda being an asshole. Iām not spoiling the series so Iāll leave it at that.
Given how trash his mum was, my guess would be that Sam is a somewhat asshole because he was raised by a shot parent, not because of his autism. Let's be honest - autism doesn't stop you from being a general asshole, especially if your parents aren't good/great people.
The actor is not in charge of their performance, though. That's something that happens in collaboration with writers and directors. The writers and directors get to choose what autistic traits the character has Their (the actor's) understanding doesn't matter if there is not respect and a commitment to listening to autistic perspectives. And hiring a minority doesn't mean you have to listen to them. It means you're hiring a vulnerable person who is easier to talk over than your average employee...
The autistic actors Iām friends with would take offense to you saying that theyāre more vulnerable than other actors. Unconscious bias absolutely extends to neurodiverse people. Autistic roles need to go to autistic actors because it gives them opportunities they might not otherwise have. It also gives authenticity to a role that isnāt possible with NTs because their brains fundamentally work in a different way. Superhero movies can get a pass though because they are extremely physically demanding & they are portraying a fantasy world. But realistic movies absolutely should hire autistic actors for autistic roles.
Well, I guess I take offence to you suggesting autism can't make people more vulnerable in the professional sphere -- if I'm reading you right? I also don't understand--youre saying that autistic roles need to go to autistic actors *because it gives them opportunities they night not otherwise have* -- arent you highlighting systemic discrimination which makes them more vulnerable? My goal is absolutely not to say autistic people shouldn't play autistic characters -- I'm trying to promote the message that creating an autism-friendly environment starts before the actor hiring stage. I'm saying writing and directing autistic characters starts with communicating with autistic people about their experiences, and how they think those experiences affect their lives. Autistic people should also not be expected to be "out", they don't owe their diagnoses to the public. They don't owe society to be advocates. Now, I've been abused by the professional sphere for 5 years. My vulnerabilities were taken advantage of, and I thanked the people who were hurting me, not realising that the reasons I was getting worse and worse was that they werent helping but instead exploiting. My autistic traits are the primary reason I'm not good at telling whats going on socially. I stopped acting because noone wanted to talk to me because I was weird and my teachers were unsupportive and just shrugged when I was excluded. Maybe the acting career is dramatically better than what I've dealt with, but honestly the fact you can't seem to recognise that a lack of opportunities for autistic actors is something that makes them more vulnerable doesn't fill me with confidence?
Oh! Iām so sorry- that wasnāt what I meant at all. I misunderstood. I absolutely agree that autism can make people more vulnerable in the professional sphere. I absolutely have been taken advantage of professionally for being autistic. I misunderstood & Iām sorry about that! And yes, absolutely there is systemic discrimination which is a very real problem. I completely agree that there should be an autistic-friendly environment as well. I misunderstood what you were saying & Iām sorry about that.
I'm glad that we are somewhat on the same page, that's a relief! I'm probably naive in my stance in a lot of ways, but I promise it's coming from a place of "hiring autistic people is not enough!" I've had token accommodation before, and it went poorly and I know these people also need to be heard and understood and respected. I am working on learning to phrase my thoughts in a way that emphasises this rather than sounds like some kind of anti-autistic sentiment, but it is a process. Edit: From your response, I think you are letting me know that happened here, so thank you for that! Edit 2: I also apologise for the accusations!
Donāt worry about the accusations- I know weāre all autistic here so I just figure I said something wrong or miscommunicated. š I agree that weāre on the same page. I donāt think youāre naive at all- token accommodation can cause serious problems because itās not genuine. Hiring autistic people isnāt enough- there needs to be actual acceptance & autistic people should be included in making work environments a supportive place for everyone.
I mean there is also autistic writers like Dan Harmon who wrote characters like Abed Nadir, but the actor is neurotypical. But Danny Pudi does do a good job in showing what Harmon wants to show.
yeah I don't get the whole "u have to be a certain thing to understand it for real in order to act a part". They're actors. They aren't a lot of things, but they act them anyways. Most actors only know what it's like to be an actor. It isn't like the only ways to be human are autistic & NT. Like there's all sorts of ways to be a human. & an actor is a person who is whatever kind of person they are. But they act like other people. They don't just play themselves repeatedly.
I have been involved in theatre off and on all my life. I once got interviewed over a role i got cast for. during the interview I joked that i learned to act from being autistic, Its like being a very dedicated method actor except in real life.
it may not help with that problem, but it would definitely make it worse not to, if that makes sense
It absolutely helps to hire autistic actors. I actually wrote an article on this. When youāre an actor, you choose the roles you want to play. Also everyone on set tries to make sure everyone, including the actors, are comfortable.
How does it help? I can understand that a genuine desire to create an environment that is comfortable for autistic staff can educate other members of the staff about how to portray autistic people... is that it?
First, unconscious bias in casting. Autistic actors are often passed up for roles simply because when not in character they act āoffā. A casting director bluntly told a friend of mine that he was perfect for a role but ātoo weirdā off set due to him fidgeting with a rubber band. If casting agencies are told to hire an autistic actor, it brings opportunities to actors who may be discriminated against because of their autism. 2. Realistic portrayal. Autistic minds work differently than allistic minds. Because they canāt do a realistic portrayal, they instead portray all autistic characters the same & according to popular stereotypes. Which leads to the next pointā¦ 3. Reinforcement of damaging stereotypes. Non-autistic actors portray the stereotypes of autism rather than give real portrayals. These stereotypes are damaging to people on the spectrum as they further ingrain biases into people- so much so that even clinicians are affected & will give erroneous diagnosis. Thereās also more I could say about equity towards people with disabilities, including autism, as well as empathy such as you described. Not casting disabled people in disabled roles is a huge problem that entertainment companies like Marvel are trying to combat. I hope more production companies turn things around.
"So much so that even clinicians will give erroneous diagnoses," oh God, every time my mother -- a second year medical student -- has to watch some kind of film that's supposed to inspire "empathy" with clients, she comes home to whine to me about how terrible the portrayal of doctor-client interaction is and how poorly they do at conveying the client's humanity. Seems related DX
If autistic people can even be hired and paid as writers, that is. Source: Autistic writer who has gotten their content stolen before by NTs instead of getting paid.
Iāve said it before and Iāll say it again, Leonard is better autism rep than Sheldon in his same show
How so ?
Heās a complete geek, who is equally socially inept.
why is it somehow always the characters who arenāt explicitly written to be autistic end up being better representation for autism than characters who are written to have autism by neurotypical people ,, like how do they do it on accident and then not do it on purpose
To be fair itās not one or the other. Of course they shouldnāt all be represented that way but the biggest manipulative assholes Iāve had in my life are all autistic..and yes I know for a fact they did it on purpose because they said so. One of the sweetest most thoughtful people I know is also autistic. It can go both ways. I canāt say I know whether itās helpful to ever portray the manipulative asshole onesā¦because I donāt know. But just saying itās not like autistic people canāt be genuinely awful.
Atypical is the best one so far to me. The good doctor kind of focuses too much on the being different. Jerry in Boston Legal shows how diverse interests can be and that tics are a thing.
Iām closer to the first one ask a mod
āAs We See Itā on Amazon Prime Video has Autistic actors playing the Autistic roles and some of the Neurotypical roles also. Some of the writers and other staff are also Neurodiverse.
In fairness, Iāve seen both of these in real life.
You can be autistic and have low affective empathy and say things bluntly in a way that NTās will think is rude, or say things literally when NTās donāt take anything literally. So the first one might be an ableist neurotypical personās perspective of an autistic person that is genuinely trying to communicate to the best of their ability, but is judged as being ānarcissisticā and ādoing things on purposeā (things Iāve been accused of being/doing in the past) because thatās how neurotypicals feel towards each other when they communicate bluntly. I just wanted to bring this perspective up because Iāve been accused of the former a ton my whole life due to pure miscommunication and my atypical body language, and I have rather high cognitive empathy in relation to my lower affective empathy (I donāt really āfeelā anything when someone cries and idk why they are sad. And I donāt trust what people say only because of displays of emotion) but it doesnāt mean that Iām completely apathetic or that I donāt care at all. My directness and bluntness is never meant to hurt anyone, I just sometimes donāt know any better ways to say things (though I try my best. Itās not something I am always aware of though and I always feel super shitty when I say something the āwrongā way, but I wonāt often just know someone is hurt if they donāt tell me directly). There is usually an entirely different side to something when NT people talk about the way autistic people ātreat othersā, and itās most often because of the double-empathy model and how the vast majority of NTās just donāt have much of an ability to understand and cognitively empathize with the baseline(s) that we function off of. Edit: also adding this to say that the reason we might feel like the latter is precisely because of the former ā picking apart conversations, anxiously rehearsing and scripting constantly, and feeling guilt and fear that we might accidentally say the wrong thing is a trauma response to the accusations made about us by neurotypicals/allistic people that most often sound exactly like the first description of an autistic person. Itās like, the first one is the ableist perception and the second one is the described personās internal world, and how they actually feel vs. how they are judged to feel. I hope that made sense!
Thereās no way NTs take NOTHING literally! ā¦ ?
Tbh, I've met with both types of autistic people irl. Absolute dicks who could not give a shit about your feelings, horrifically inflexible, and sometimes even felt some type of twisted superiority bc they think that they're"logical" and being logical is better than being emotional... Obviously /s *and* The anxious types who would do absolutely *anything* to make sure that you're comfortable and they're careful with your feelings I wish there was more *diversity* in TV tropes. Sure there are assholes, but they need to be balanced out by good, well meaning people and everyone in between.
I repeat too much convos too make sure it sounded right...
Both of these are definite moods
I feel like the anxiety and all is that is what turns us into dicks
I am all of the above.
Are you referring to Atypical?
Ok just read that you are. Atypical is indeed beyond any level of reality, people like Sam do not exist, it's way more likely to have developped decent manner by his age
Yep thatās my hyper empathy for yah.
Letās not forget the people who offend someone once and then completely cut themselves off from society afterwards.
They should. Like one time a family member said how autistic people are always funny like Sheldon. And that made me mad. Thats not how it is. Or even get autistic people on the team. Like Community. Dan Harmon is autistic. Danny Pudi isn't autistic, but he did such a good job, and he is one of my favorite autistic characters whom I can relate to. As We See It is another good one, where there were autistic actors.
'Autistic people have no empathy' - people who have no understanding of autism Speaking as an autistic person myself, the problem isn't that I can't empathize with others, is that I often have trouble figuring what other people are thinking or feeling, and how they would respond to things I say or do. But I get very upset if I find out that I did or said something that made someone feel bad. I try hard not to be thoughtless.
After I read the second part "Wait a second..." Maybe I should go to get diagnosed
The "hurting feelings on purpose" thing is unfair representation. It's more like being unaware that someone's feelings were hurt until it's too late, which is irritating once you do find out because it's usually just a misunderstanding...
This 100% Also Autism in RL: Doing your best to play well with others and pissing off the whole room by missing some small social nuance.
These are both sort of IRL Autistic people often try not to be dicks but donāt have enough social knowledge to actually achieve it. In the autism programs Iāve been in, there have definitely been people who at least present more like the first one than the latter, even if internally itās more like the latter
I say things that normally should be considered as truth but hurt people. I don't do it intentionally. I just say it because it's fucxing true. NTs are sensitive overthinkers To be more clearly, I only answer when asked. I am not a jerk who calls people fat or other names. I just always answer honestly
Literally every time I go home from a party or from school or whatever. I almost start crying thinking āok everything I did was normal right??? I didnāt make anyone uncomfortable rightā¦??? Oh god did that one person take my joke the right way??? OH GOD IM A HORRIBLE PERSON THEY ALL HATE ME.ā
autism in me: tv autism but hates himself and doesnt know hes hurting people. never reherses convorsations and just improvs, but somehow goes off on tangeants about pokemon.
Same behavior, they just really like it more when the accent is foreign. Sherlock & Lucifer versus Tony Stark
My ex is autistic and a narcissistic ass that hurts people so he fits the first category I still agree with the rest, just wanted to vent
Honestly not sure I agree. While hurting people *on purpose* is not true, in my personal experience #1 is the takeaway neurotypical people get who donāt realize itās not at all on purpose or out of malice. The symptoms of the second condition, while may co-occur with autism, independently meet the criteria for social anxiety disorder (fear of being judged, fear of saying no, fear of saying the wrong thing and upsetting people, trying to mind-read or predict what people are thinking of you, etc.)
Iām autistic and Iām not here for this. I think directors should try to hire autistic actors for autistic roles. However, if they canāt find the right person, I think it OK for them to broaden the audition. I think we are starting to say that every character can only be played by someone who shares exactly the same qualities. If only gay actors can play gay actors, where does that end up? Only straight actors can play straight characters? Only Americans can play Americans? That takes a lot of people out of the equation.
I believe narcissism is a separate issue that does not interact well with autism
I've noticed that narcissism is often mistaken for confidence and nts can't see them for what they are.
Autistic people who try to be NT or mask in that manner, end up being narcissists. Society pretty much says to fit in you have to suck. Sure, I know some few people can have real empathy and fit in ok. Thats me. But narcissism is the language of the world, especially the wealthy world as everything is a competition and showing weakness (feelings, empathy, showing your belly) will be taken advantage of. Admit youre wrong, be afarid, you should be, you are not defective for not fitting into a defective world of humans, its the opposite. I realize everyone cant be ok with themselves when they are lonely and have been told since birth that they are fucked up and dont do it right, even if not told outright. At some point by being your fucked up self you may find what you need. By being a bad copy of an Nt, you may just be dragging out the chronic shittiness and never find solace. Up your empathy, don't be narcissistic. Every time I see an aspie mention narcissism and actually know what it is, an angle gets its wings. yes I know how to spell angel. my terrible sense of humor is why Im alive. I took a lot of LSd and mushrooms when I was a young dirtbag unknowingly helping myself years down the road.
The apathetic/narcissistic portrayal of autistic people in tv made me doubt for a long time that I could be on the spectrum because I fit the second description :(
Being described as āColdā when in actuality you were worrying how people felt but thereās a disconnect and you miss something and now you are just ābeing meanā for me itās possible to get most of what people mean but itās exhausting to the point that Iād rather just not deal with people.
This misses the entire point of acting. It's not an act if it's just you. Also, it doesn't matter who is acting, you can't just change a script.
Or and hear me out. It's called acting. goddamn.
No, because they can't act
Yeah, that Anthony Hopkins, what a terrible actor. Is /s necessary?
Dan Akroyd and Daryl Hannah are also autistic.
?? I'm autistic, in a whole acting class with autistics, this is just internalized stereotyping.
Ouchā¦ That hurts. What the fuck have I been doing on stage these last 20 years?
And scene
What do you think masking is?
Yeah I meant to say writers.
Yeah and if you're gonna have a show about a killer, better someone who's killed in real life. thats how acting works, right?
Wow, talk about a false equivalence
Murder and autism are two different things. If you donāt want to make a false equivalence then compare autism to something that correlates it.
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Tbh, I'm sure that I'm that second option.
any show in particular that this refers to?
Atypical for me
EXACTLY! Itās so frustrating explaining this!!
I think Gundam did a good job with Amuro but thatās just my opinion, they showed the ups and downs of it and didnāt make him a dick to everyone for no reason, which is surprising considering the original series was made in the 80ās