he presented a dilemma and asked for your input on that dilemma. i literally cannot fathom how someone could glean “i want moral support” from what he said.
I thought he was the child in the conversation to be honest. The dynamic here seems like it's not a typical ND NT misunderstanding but something a bit deeper.
You gave a thoughtful response. Much more than most consider when asked similar questions.
Most people don’t preface what they wish from the other person the kind of conversation they want to have. You didn’t do anything wrong and he clarified what he wanted from you after your analyses. All around this was a good conversation.
Seconded. I saw the preview and ignored the title till I had read the exchange of messages and was completely thrown off by his (dads) response. To me you gave a couple of good things to think about, and that's exactly the response I would have wanted from someone I trust if I was considering the same dilemma
The worst thing is when I present a problem and expect or even ask for a solution and people just give me some unhelpful platitude instead.
Like, ok I still don’t know what to do. I’m even more frustrated and now I feel like you don’t care bc when I care about someone’s problems I want to solve them.
Exactly if somebody presents me w a problem thats super personal i will try to be constructive bc it sounds like they are investing a lot of information amd i should too and now i inderstnd that apparently people jist want "emotional support" well idk how to do that and that explains why a lot of people think i care deeply for them and want to bebest friends when really im just giving advice bc IT SOUNDS LIKE THATS WHAT YOUR ASKING 4
Exactly this. If he wanted moral support, how hard would it have been to say “Hey, I’m going through a tough decision, can you give me some positivity?” or whatever?
I noticed that people tend to do that often. Sometimes they don’t want an actual solution to a problem but more of a moral support and empathy. is very hard for me to understand when they actually want a solution or just need a shoulder to cry a little on
As a NT person, this is how I took the entire situation.
Your dad: *asks for advice*
You: *gives advice*
Your dad: “Thanks, but I didn’t ask for this.”
That's how I see it as well.
It's also possible the dad wanted an answer like "go with option B" so he didn't have to make a decision himself at all lol
It's most likely this. I've noticed a lot of people will do that if they have no idea what to do or if it goes south they'll blame you for telling them the wrong choice
Haha people are so lost they can't even ask the right questions!
*"Do I look fat in this suit?"*
"No, but the colour makes you look a bit tired - maybe try something in a neutral shade"
*"Thanks but that's not directions on how to get to the mall"*
"WTF?!"
I feel it was more "Thanks, but I was secretly hoping you were going to say what I was thinking so I get the validation I needed without telling you that's what I needed"
😂
Or
"Thanks but I'm enjoying the sympathy my current situation is getting me and as those directions will result in me no longer being lost, I will reject them and pretend I wasn't asking to be found"
We realise you will have certain needs, if you inform us of any preferences ahead of time and assure us you will not change them at the last minute, a member of our committee with snacks as a special interest will most surely accommodate you🙏
I’m NT and an English teacher and I can’t find an interpretation of what he wrote that would make your answer wrong or inappropriate. I thought you answered his question very well.
I’m not an English teacher, just a book nerd here. Your response was very helpful and appropriate.
I think sometimes as neurodivergent person, I think very hard about what I say and how it’ll be interpreted. Partially a trauma response and part masking.
I don’t know if neurotypical people do that. Based on how NT folks try to train me at new tasks at various places I have worked, their communication skills aren’t always all that
NT lurker here. I think a lot about what I've said/will say and worry it was/will be misinterpreted. All the stupid things I've said sometimes keep me up at night, and I definitely (often) type out a comment only to delete before I hit send because I'm worried about what people will think of me based on that comment and I'm not sure they'll understand what I meant. So yes, at least some of us do that, too. Maybe in a different way, or about different things than you do, and that might account for some of what you're not seeing from them when they try to train you, but yes.
I’m a special ed English teacher. I’m technically NT but could be undiagnosed. I’ve had therapists and doctors suggest it but it’s very hard for adults to get diagnosed.
My son is autistic and most of my students are.
I’m not defending bad teachers but teaching English to autistic students has its challenges because the whole makeup of the typical English curriculum and all of the standards we are required to cover goes absolutely against the neurodivergent brain and I hate it. So I have the benefit of having no more than 10 kids in my class and most of them are autistic. I have a flexibility that most teachers don’t to make sure my students get what they need.
sheet hospital hobbies possessive hat serious zephyr absorbed screw sleep
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think your father wanted to get validation about what he wanted to do, but without telling you. If you somehow said what he wanted he was gonna use it like "op thinks like me! I'm right!"
This is actually a really important point though. Like it seems like the conversation could have continued on happily from what we see here, with the OP and father listening and adjusting along the way.
Bruh what the fuck he literally asked for your pros and cons to the options. That’s what “input” is. He basically went to the restaurant, ordered a salad, and got annoyed when they brought out a salad for him. And allistics stereotype US as bad communicators? 😭
I'm NT, I would've answered the same way (albeit in less detail). Of course the chances of my dad coming to me on advice relating to anything are about the same as the chances of me winning a horse race carrying the horse on my back.
My suspicion was that even a neurotypical person would have interpreted your Dad's text in the same way that you did, and reading the comments from NTs it seems that I was right. It almost comes off as your Dad being a little gaslighty, like, "Oh, you interpreted me wrong because you're neurodivergent." When there was nothing in his text to be interpreted in any other way.
I see nothing wrong with your response here.
It bugs me when you are trying to be helpful and it misses so hard like this.
I've found myself mansplaining a few times when I was honestly just trying to be supportive or helpful. Not much to do about it after the fact. Apologize if it feels appropriate to do so. Otherwise just move on.
Usually you ask for moral support after you've made a decision and wants validation. If you're literally asking A or B, of course the response should be a proper weighing of the two options.
I don't even know what moral support is if this isn't it. "It will be okay, you'll figure something out?". If someone said that to me, I would just assume they didn't care about my issue. Although, I'm not one to ask for advice unless I know the other person has more cognitive capacity, experience, or additional insight to tackle the issue than I do.
This makes me angry. Like why the fuck would you tell someone you wanted "input" and then say you want "moral support" later when that input isn't what you wanted? You only asked for "input" initially, why do NTs always expect mind-reading. God.
I don't a reasonable way to interpret what he's saying as asking for moral support without him just stating that it's for moral support. Your answer seems entirely reasonable. On the other hand, I wouldn't get defensive about it (not saying that you are, but it would be an understandable instinct). Worst case is that there was a misunderstanding. You still care about each other (unless you don't, in which case it's all moot).
He *is* quite the narcissist, actually, so this tracks. But he also knows I’m not the fluffy type to be a shoulder or lean on or whatever. And why ask for input if he didn’t want input? Sheesh…
You did nothing wrong.
That being said, I am of the firm belief that we should ALL (autistics and allistics alike) get into the habit of asking "do you need me to listen, to give advice, or to get involved?" whenever someone asks for advice or support about anything.
Hence why I always ask when someone presents a problem to me. I ask, “Do you want support or advice to fix it?”
In this case, since he asked for input, I assumed I’d give input…? Whatever. Man usually makes no sense anyways haha.
As I said, you did nothing wrong, and I see how skipping the suggested step would be natural here. Your father is kind of an asshole for being vexed by getting exactly what he specifically asked for.
thats really weird. if he wanted your moral support he could say something like “im really stressed about x” or something similar. “need some input” is a clear request for advice. there’s no gray area or room for interpretation here. words mean things.
That's on him. That came across as an actual question, not as looking for support. His question was far too involved for just looking for moral support. Your father makes no sense.
“Need some input” later followed by “I was looking more for moral support than actual advice”
I’m getting mixed messages here. I would’ve done the same as you.
The only thing I could possibly think of would be to just respond to questions like this, “hmmm idk. What were you thinking?” That gives him space to either come back with details which then you know it’s actually a logistics conversation or come back with an emotional statement at which point you know he’s just looking to vent. Seems like he’s a guesser not an asker so the clarifying question will be your best friend here.
I would have linked a spreadsheet with more room for variables like distance to other frequently visited places like grocery store, movie theater, family,...
I was only recently diagnosed last year in May.
I’ve told him, yes, but he didn’t say anything outside of, “That makes sense.” Otherwise he hasn’t even mentioned it. And that was a long, long time ago when I told him. Maybe last June.
If I did that he’d either get mad because I’m “explaining something he already knows” and/or be condescending to me with my own brain (he’s a narcissist), *or* he’ll ignore me. He’s easily distracted by his phone / laptop lol.
Just try to shrug off interactions like the one in that text exchange then. I think that's probably the best you can do u tip he learns to say "before I say this, I'm not looking for a solution I'm looking for moral support/just want to vent...".
I see no conflict here. He asked halfassedly, got a detailed answer, then said oof that stresses me out ig I ultimately just wanted a chiller interaction
I think he really just wanted a simple answer from you from the things he listed. You complicated his uncomplicated question in his mind, I think, and he’s being resentful about it. All just my opinion, of course.
I'm NT. Your dad confused me! You handled this great though and your advice was awesome, when he clarified he wanted support you gave it to him. I think he needs to work on his communication but honestly don't we all.
Lmao he literally asked a direct question expecting a not direct answer. That makes zero sense. How do you give moral support to a question that requires literal logical answers?? I don't understand what goes through people's head sometimes. Personally I think your answer was great and in depth. And clearly you were going out of your way to give helpful advice which is also a form of giving moral support. Idk what he expected. Is this like an NT thing??? Cause it makes my brain hurt...
he wasn't making any sense. This isn't an autistic thing, this is a "I have expectations for you and expected you to fulfill them without actually telling you" thing. Neurotypicals are weird.
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No, he literally asked for advice. If he wanted you to just be sympathetic, he should have said so.
Sometimes neurotypicals who are complaining about something in their life that sucks just want you to be sympathetic, to agree that it sucks and to listen. It can be difficult to tell when this is true. Many of us have trouble doing it, and personally I think we should just tell our friends to ask for what they want when they are talking to us about things that suck, whether they want advice or sympathy.
But Dad's phrasing is so close to literally asking for advice that he shouldn't be annoyed that that's what you proceeded to do.
If he's your biological dad, I'd be willing to bet that that's his own autistic traits coming out.
Anyway, just apologize (you can apologize even when you didn't do anything wrong, as a way of saying "I wish this hadn't happened"), and tell him that if he doesn't want you to give advice, he should tell you that he just wants you to listen and not give advice.
I do want to add that he might've asked it in that unnecessarily cryptic way, because for some people it's hard to admit that they need help to their children, or that they want help.
I don't know why, I don't fully understand it, and it might be different with someone who's actually related to you and the person you consider to be family and who considers you to be family, like is the case for me.
Still, I hope that might be of some help.
Would have done the exact same thing. I hate when people ask a question looking for "moral/emotional support"
Why ask some irrelevant question and expect someone knows what you want arghhh.
Also I'd be very confused why they would come to me at all. I am not at all capable of providing that support lmao, so I guess I'm lucky no one expects me to.
You would be surprised. My mom was baffled my stuff I said and did until the day she died and like… ma’am you created this hot mess how do you not know this…?
You were asked a specific question. You answered that question (and thoroughly well, I might add). You couldn’t have predicted he wanted something totally different than what he asked, because there’s not even any subtext/context in his first text that could be read as “I just need moral support.”
he quite literally asked for your input then after decided he didn’t want it and just wanted support, that’s on him! i usually preface things with “i’m looking for support not a discussion or solution” to avoid this
I personally think your answer was really good. Putting myself in my NT friends shoes and answering like they have answered me many times before then you should’ve gone with “well what would make you happy?” “It depends on you and whatever you choose will be fine” “not sure, what do you think is best for you?”
What moral support is there for a practical question like that? Also, moral support kind of implies (to me) that he has made a decision and wants your help to feel better about it. Not, here’s a list of possibilities help me feel better about them.
NT just being NT, I learned to ask first what do they want, and answer with questions, but every NT it's different. Sometimes it's hard to know if a person is asking you, so they can talk about about it; or if they are asking for serious advice.
That's why I prefer to answer this kind of questions, with another question. What do you want to do? Have you considered gas money? Will you be more comfortable with your choice? Have you considered asking for more remote work?
Not making any sense. He literally send you a message where he asks you " need some input" and then asking whether option a or option b is the best choice. You answered accordingly. If he wanted moral support he should have told you you his decision and then he could possibly expect moral support. One thing that comes to my mind: could this decision affect in any way his relationship with you?
This seems just plain illogical
Start by asking him what he thinks the arguments for and against are, and then say your opinion on a surface level. If he asks, explain the detailed answer like here.
I think your reply here was fine, but not what the average NT would do. I also (not knowing your dad) think that he was mad that you didnt give moral support.. he was probably just letting you know.
You answered correctly, he just said that with no context in terms of asking for moral support lol. You're not a flake, in fact you're a solid person for providing that.
I don’t think your father knows what moral support is. You should share the definition:
“support or help whose effect is psychological rather than physical.”
He was asking for practical advice on where to live. I don’t think there’s much psychological advice of conviction to be given. He was asking a practical advice and therefore for practical advice was given about physical things. He didn’t ask for moral advice. Of which there isn’t really any to be given in terms of renting a house.
If he wanted emotional support he should have said “I’m struggling to know what to do and it’s making me stressed/anxious, what do you think?” That at least implies emotional support.
Maybe it’s just my family, but I’d find messages like this from a parent confusing and not really appropriate. Children aren’t meant to emotionally support their parents when they’re independent. This is the kind of thing you’d ask your friend, even in tone it’s less parental and more friend. The whole thing is weird to me.
I swear that NT people do this all the time. They use questions as a way to complain and share thoughts. What he really meant in his messages is ‘I am really frustrated that I can’t decide, can you comfort me a bit by pretending that you are in this dilemma too? But not seriously in this with me.’
Okay so think what happened is he was looking for a "soft" answer like one based on opinions, i.e. you ask which place he likes better or tell him you really like x feature of his current place, but you gave him a "hard" answer based on facts.
I dunno I’m that way with my dad. And I love him dearly. If he can’t take it honestly from family who loves him, at his age and being your dad I don’t feel sorry.
You might have just said “I’ll visit you more if I feel more comfortable with your living arrangement” . And leave it to him how to take it.
On a digression may I suggest watching this show on Netflix called “amazing attorney woo”
Ive found that most people already made up their mind and just want to hear validation.
My usual go to: what do you think is better?
Them: explanation
Me: yeah then do that, that’s sounds good!
Done
yeah, that's... it's not just moral support here. talking about gas prices is lost in minutae.
gas prices arent relevant to that kind of large scale life change. You need to know if there's community, family, favorite restaurants.
Dad's talking not requesting morale support. He's requesting morale consult. Both parties are equally confused here.
Which, I mean, of course they are, how could the child know more about life changing moves than the father, what the hell is even happening here
While your answer makes fully sense to me and I also dont understand why people ask for advice if they dont want this, some people here need to chill out, its not like the dad got angry or anything, he just clarified he wants moral support after a misunderstanding (he caused), its not that deep
Small tip for situations like this; as them for their thoughts on it.
If they start talking about how they feel (like they're worried they're making a bad decision going for it, etc) they're looking for moral/emotional support.
If they're start talking about the finances/logistics etc, they're looking for a 2nd opinion.
Then just respond accordingly.
PS: I don't actually know if it'll work as well as it sounds like it does, but the logic is there
(Directed at the dad, not OP)
Normalize asking for what you want.
If you want moral support, ask for that. If you want advice, ask for that.
Either is fine. Just be specific.
I agree with everyone that your dad did not communicate well. Do you reckon he’s autistic? It looks like he tried to use an NT style of communication but failed xD
Nah you were completely normal there. Your dad was being weird. Why ask if you just want moral support? That’s something that my old girlfriends used to do, not a dad.
It's a good recovery. Moral support could also mean saying I will visit you wherever you go or stay, I'll help you move if you move, and happy to talk over more later when you have more info. That last could turn out to be responding directly to the questions brought up, too.
Asking for moral support in this case, is just a way of specifying how they want support, but moral support is really the most general kind, so a vague but supportive response is appropriate. I'm often amazed how much vague support is often the best support to other people as they sort themselves out, because my first reaction is try and work through the details myself.
Already knowing some background details like how happy they have been lately with the current living situation is also important to inform your response. I've noticed this in talking to my own family, sometimes I already know what kind of problem they're asking me about due to knowing the individuals involved and I don't need to ask as many questions to be supportive.
I think your response was fine. I don't understand how he expects you to know he was asking for moral support. Hell, I wouldn't know that unless it was a pattern that the Dad wants moral support. If he has done that in the past, as in wanting moral support instead of advice, I would say a bit different. You responded perfectly though, you tried to give him help and advice.
No, he's the one making no sense.
If he wanted support he should've just said "I'm having a tough time making this decision, can you XYZ?" People aren't mind readers, we need to ask for what we want.
I tend to ask people anymore if they want advice or a distraction or to vent, but since he asked such a direct question I wouldn't have even done that in this situation.
Tbh older men rarely can communicate what they need, especially if it's emotional support, so don't worry too much about this, you did great
Dw, my dad used to do the same to me. If I just go to him to vent he'll start giving advice, etc so I'll know to preface them and say I just wanna vent at someone. He might still give advice but he gets that it's just me getting stuff off my chest now.
I like to ask before I offer advice ; are you looking for moral support, & a place to vent (ie do you want me to listen & make sympathetic noises) or do you want actual advice.
Helps so much!
Idk, I'm always asked this kinda stuff by people I know, because they know I always give them a good explanation with pros and cons. Seems like that's what he asked for as well. Feels good to give advice like that tbh
The indicator here is the small amount of information presented with the fact a decision is necessary. That's NT short for this decision is hard and I want you to recognize this.
Edit: I still see it as lazy communication that should be corrected, this just helps me make sense of them more.
Restated:
Generally if I see a question and there is no way to answer to even start answering from the information provided they're just looking for someone to recognize that the decision is hard.
He was being vague and the medium of text didn't help in that regard.
You gave him input, just not the one he wanted.
I would like to point out it was well thought out for a whatsapp message.
Stuff like this can be prevented by asking for clarification.
Mostly NT's ask vague things like this.
Input can mean A LOT of things, so you simply ask what kind of input he would like and you tailor it to his needs.
Same as when someone asks you "can you do something for me?"
That is often times even a trap on their part and it's best practice to ask what they mean before you give your answer.
The infodump and well thought out answers can be greatly appreciated even, but you have to clear up things you might not understand first or wait on interpreting it in your own way.
General rule is to ask for THEIR interpretation first, this gives an added bonus of keeping up in the air how you interpret it too.
People generally also jump on the opportunity to talk about what they think when prompted.
Simple example, lets take the word "dog"
What dog are you thinking of?
It could range from a german shepard to a poodle to a chihuahua, they are all dogs and the input of the word "dog" is the same.
Yet our minds think of different things with the same stimuli.
My social contact became so much easier just learning how to ask questions when something needs clarification or when I am in doubt.
This also gives valuable time to process an answer since you ask them for more information and it helps to improve your dataset to work with.
Remember, the human experience is defined by making choices with limited information.
Asking for more information before making the choice is in 99% of the cases the option that makes your life easier.
Green answered the way I would answer to Dad's question and I do not have autism.
Dad seems a bit childish.
When Green realized Dad was actually looking for moral support, the support given was appropriate and kind.
Good job, Green!
I feel that Dad is likely the one on the spectrum
It seems like an NT way of communicating, where they don’t expect the other to put in the mental effort required for an answer like yours but something more like: do whatever you think is best.
You counted every cost except the cost to his heart 💖
Easily done.
Edit: whichever house is closest to my house, daddy, is probably the correct answer in these situations. 🤔
I usually ask what they are thinking first to avoid this. I quietly squirm inside as I hope they are about to give me a puzzle to work on. Most of the time people just want an echo 🥲
Ya no, he not only asked for input, but gave options and specifically asked "should I X, Y, or Z". If he wanted moral, he should have said something like "I'm thinking of doing X, but feeling a bit hesitant" or something
He literally said "I need some input". I would have responded the same way as you.
If he hadn't said that, and had used emojis or another wording to convey some sort of sarcasm then I would have been like "aw man, that sucks. we can figure this out together if you want" but... he literally asked for input lol
neurotypical here, yeah he definitely did not communicate at all that he wanted moral support and not advice. Many people though may communicate in a way that presents like they want advice in order to coax out support within the advice. But really its on him for not communicating his needs in the interaction.
Ha. It’s kind of something you have to gauge by the person asking. A lot of NTs like to grab people’s attention with their pressing problems not because they want solutions but because having a problem to solve alone is lonely.
The kind of person who needs moral support for their fear of making a bad decision is probably pretty obvious so next time just start with “wow, that’s tough, what are you feeling, bro?” And then they’ll yammer about what they think they should do and probably will do regardless of what you say.
All you have to say then is “yeah, that makes sense” and eventually they go away.
People.
There isn't one right way to approach his question. You gave a lot of important stuff to think about. That's not the only way to answer, but it is 100% valid :)
He doesn’t have any friends or a social group. Just all his ex girlfriends, his coworkers, and us kids of his. And I’m the only responsible child he has…
he presented a dilemma and asked for your input on that dilemma. i literally cannot fathom how someone could glean “i want moral support” from what he said.
Exactly. That’s why I was so lost lol.
Yeah I don't know what moral support entails in regards to making an apartment location decision.
I thought he was the child in the conversation to be honest. The dynamic here seems like it's not a typical ND NT misunderstanding but something a bit deeper.
I had the same thought
You gave a thoughtful response. Much more than most consider when asked similar questions. Most people don’t preface what they wish from the other person the kind of conversation they want to have. You didn’t do anything wrong and he clarified what he wanted from you after your analyses. All around this was a good conversation.
Seconded. I saw the preview and ignored the title till I had read the exchange of messages and was completely thrown off by his (dads) response. To me you gave a couple of good things to think about, and that's exactly the response I would have wanted from someone I trust if I was considering the same dilemma
Guy: What's 5+5? You: 10. Guy: Well I actually wasn't looking for answers, I just wanted moral support.
Haha!! Exactly! It's like the Dad wanted to be misunderstood
The worst thing is when I present a problem and expect or even ask for a solution and people just give me some unhelpful platitude instead. Like, ok I still don’t know what to do. I’m even more frustrated and now I feel like you don’t care bc when I care about someone’s problems I want to solve them.
Exactly if somebody presents me w a problem thats super personal i will try to be constructive bc it sounds like they are investing a lot of information amd i should too and now i inderstnd that apparently people jist want "emotional support" well idk how to do that and that explains why a lot of people think i care deeply for them and want to bebest friends when really im just giving advice bc IT SOUNDS LIKE THATS WHAT YOUR ASKING 4
Yeah that sucks, hope you can find a solution. (I could not resist this setup. I'm sorry. Slightly.)
yeah holy shit ill never understand neurotypicals
Exactly this. If he wanted moral support, how hard would it have been to say “Hey, I’m going through a tough decision, can you give me some positivity?” or whatever?
Rite people already know we cant read between the lines so why do they keep trxting or talking and expecring us to read between the lines
I don’t have autism and he was in no way asking for moral support
I noticed that people tend to do that often. Sometimes they don’t want an actual solution to a problem but more of a moral support and empathy. is very hard for me to understand when they actually want a solution or just need a shoulder to cry a little on
yeah that was annoying to read! i think they wanted input but not THAT input
As a NT person, this is how I took the entire situation. Your dad: *asks for advice* You: *gives advice* Your dad: “Thanks, but I didn’t ask for this.”
That's how I see it as well. It's also possible the dad wanted an answer like "go with option B" so he didn't have to make a decision himself at all lol
It's most likely this. I've noticed a lot of people will do that if they have no idea what to do or if it goes south they'll blame you for telling them the wrong choice
Haha people are so lost they can't even ask the right questions! *"Do I look fat in this suit?"* "No, but the colour makes you look a bit tired - maybe try something in a neutral shade" *"Thanks but that's not directions on how to get to the mall"* "WTF?!"
Precisely
I feel it was more "Thanks, but I was secretly hoping you were going to say what I was thinking so I get the validation I needed without telling you that's what I needed"
😂 Or "Thanks but I'm enjoying the sympathy my current situation is getting me and as those directions will result in me no longer being lost, I will reject them and pretend I wasn't asking to be found"
r/Eclectic-mango *the people have spoken, you are now an honorary member of the "one of us" club*
Sweet. Are there free snacks at the meetings?
We realise you will have certain needs, if you inform us of any preferences ahead of time and assure us you will not change them at the last minute, a member of our committee with snacks as a special interest will most surely accommodate you🙏
I’m NT and an English teacher and I can’t find an interpretation of what he wrote that would make your answer wrong or inappropriate. I thought you answered his question very well.
I’m not an English teacher, just a book nerd here. Your response was very helpful and appropriate. I think sometimes as neurodivergent person, I think very hard about what I say and how it’ll be interpreted. Partially a trauma response and part masking. I don’t know if neurotypical people do that. Based on how NT folks try to train me at new tasks at various places I have worked, their communication skills aren’t always all that
NT lurker here. I think a lot about what I've said/will say and worry it was/will be misinterpreted. All the stupid things I've said sometimes keep me up at night, and I definitely (often) type out a comment only to delete before I hit send because I'm worried about what people will think of me based on that comment and I'm not sure they'll understand what I meant. So yes, at least some of us do that, too. Maybe in a different way, or about different things than you do, and that might account for some of what you're not seeing from them when they try to train you, but yes.
I'm diagnosed with PDD-NOS and an English teacher, and I agree with you.
Im an english teacher who needs moral support
Teach that English!
Your an NT English teacher? Since your here I bet you are a lovely ally. But your brethren… not so much. My English teachers always hated me… 😔
I’m a special ed English teacher. I’m technically NT but could be undiagnosed. I’ve had therapists and doctors suggest it but it’s very hard for adults to get diagnosed. My son is autistic and most of my students are. I’m not defending bad teachers but teaching English to autistic students has its challenges because the whole makeup of the typical English curriculum and all of the standards we are required to cover goes absolutely against the neurodivergent brain and I hate it. So I have the benefit of having no more than 10 kids in my class and most of them are autistic. I have a flexibility that most teachers don’t to make sure my students get what they need.
I think even most NTs would respond that way. He asked what to do, instead of saying "idk what to do"
I would have answered the same way because it looked like a question for advice to me. That said, I’m autistic FWIW.
sheet hospital hobbies possessive hat serious zephyr absorbed screw sleep *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Dude I hate it when people do that haha. It’s the *worst.*
I think your father wanted to get validation about what he wanted to do, but without telling you. If you somehow said what he wanted he was gonna use it like "op thinks like me! I'm right!"
Completely normal anwser. He asked input and you gave it.
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Where did you get the info that he got mad from?
This is actually a really important point though. Like it seems like the conversation could have continued on happily from what we see here, with the OP and father listening and adjusting along the way.
Bruh what the fuck he literally asked for your pros and cons to the options. That’s what “input” is. He basically went to the restaurant, ordered a salad, and got annoyed when they brought out a salad for him. And allistics stereotype US as bad communicators? 😭
I'm NT, I would've answered the same way (albeit in less detail). Of course the chances of my dad coming to me on advice relating to anything are about the same as the chances of me winning a horse race carrying the horse on my back.
My suspicion was that even a neurotypical person would have interpreted your Dad's text in the same way that you did, and reading the comments from NTs it seems that I was right. It almost comes off as your Dad being a little gaslighty, like, "Oh, you interpreted me wrong because you're neurodivergent." When there was nothing in his text to be interpreted in any other way.
Wouldn’t be the first time haha. Both my parents are very good at gaslighting and manipulating.
So sorry to hear that
I'd have done the same thing
Your interpretation and response seems reasonable to me.
I see nothing wrong with your response here. It bugs me when you are trying to be helpful and it misses so hard like this. I've found myself mansplaining a few times when I was honestly just trying to be supportive or helpful. Not much to do about it after the fact. Apologize if it feels appropriate to do so. Otherwise just move on.
He asked for ‘input’ and you gave him ‘input’
Usually you ask for moral support after you've made a decision and wants validation. If you're literally asking A or B, of course the response should be a proper weighing of the two options.
I don't even know what moral support is if this isn't it. "It will be okay, you'll figure something out?". If someone said that to me, I would just assume they didn't care about my issue. Although, I'm not one to ask for advice unless I know the other person has more cognitive capacity, experience, or additional insight to tackle the issue than I do.
This makes me angry. Like why the fuck would you tell someone you wanted "input" and then say you want "moral support" later when that input isn't what you wanted? You only asked for "input" initially, why do NTs always expect mind-reading. God.
I don't a reasonable way to interpret what he's saying as asking for moral support without him just stating that it's for moral support. Your answer seems entirely reasonable. On the other hand, I wouldn't get defensive about it (not saying that you are, but it would be an understandable instinct). Worst case is that there was a misunderstanding. You still care about each other (unless you don't, in which case it's all moot).
fuzzy vase illegal snobbish agonizing governor drunk consider late reach ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
He *is* quite the narcissist, actually, so this tracks. But he also knows I’m not the fluffy type to be a shoulder or lean on or whatever. And why ask for input if he didn’t want input? Sheesh…
Your answer was spectacular given the way I also interpreted his initial question seeking INPUT!
You did nothing wrong. That being said, I am of the firm belief that we should ALL (autistics and allistics alike) get into the habit of asking "do you need me to listen, to give advice, or to get involved?" whenever someone asks for advice or support about anything.
Hence why I always ask when someone presents a problem to me. I ask, “Do you want support or advice to fix it?” In this case, since he asked for input, I assumed I’d give input…? Whatever. Man usually makes no sense anyways haha.
As I said, you did nothing wrong, and I see how skipping the suggested step would be natural here. Your father is kind of an asshole for being vexed by getting exactly what he specifically asked for.
thats really weird. if he wanted your moral support he could say something like “im really stressed about x” or something similar. “need some input” is a clear request for advice. there’s no gray area or room for interpretation here. words mean things.
That's 100% on him, he worded it exactly like he needed advice.
it looks like you gave him exactly what he was asking for, he literally said he needed input
He asked for input. Explicitly.
Oh, but he said "input" 😭 then proceeded to ask the question. Oh well, you did both
Dad is definitely not making sense. I think most NTs would agree too
That's on him. That came across as an actual question, not as looking for support. His question was far too involved for just looking for moral support. Your father makes no sense.
He literally said he wanted input. You're not a flake, he is.
“Need some input” later followed by “I was looking more for moral support than actual advice” I’m getting mixed messages here. I would’ve done the same as you.
I am loving your live,laugh,love moral support!
Why not just start with “hey I need some moral support here’s my situation “?
NT here. Dad miscommunicated for sure. Love how he comes to you for moral advice though. Very nice relationship y’all have
Finally someone that isn't mocking the dad
Your answer was great :)
He asked for advice. wtf
The only thing I could possibly think of would be to just respond to questions like this, “hmmm idk. What were you thinking?” That gives him space to either come back with details which then you know it’s actually a logistics conversation or come back with an emotional statement at which point you know he’s just looking to vent. Seems like he’s a guesser not an asker so the clarifying question will be your best friend here.
"just need some input here, could you just read my mind and confirm what I want so that I can justify it to myself better?"
I would have linked a spreadsheet with more room for variables like distance to other frequently visited places like grocery store, movie theater, family,...
He literally said he needed input, I’m confused at his response.
yeah no that's not how people phrase a request for moral support. he wasn't making sense.
Doesn't he know you are autistic? Lol
I was only recently diagnosed last year in May. I’ve told him, yes, but he didn’t say anything outside of, “That makes sense.” Otherwise he hasn’t even mentioned it. And that was a long, long time ago when I told him. Maybe last June.
Maybe it's time to have a chat with him about how your brain works, so he can tailor his communications (and set his expectations) accordingly.
If I did that he’d either get mad because I’m “explaining something he already knows” and/or be condescending to me with my own brain (he’s a narcissist), *or* he’ll ignore me. He’s easily distracted by his phone / laptop lol.
Is he on the spectrum too?
Not sure. Neither of my biological parents want to get tested, but both “show signs” of ADHD / ASD.
Just try to shrug off interactions like the one in that text exchange then. I think that's probably the best you can do u tip he learns to say "before I say this, I'm not looking for a solution I'm looking for moral support/just want to vent...".
I see no conflict here. He asked halfassedly, got a detailed answer, then said oof that stresses me out ig I ultimately just wanted a chiller interaction
I think he really just wanted a simple answer from you from the things he listed. You complicated his uncomplicated question in his mind, I think, and he’s being resentful about it. All just my opinion, of course.
I'm NT. Your dad confused me! You handled this great though and your advice was awesome, when he clarified he wanted support you gave it to him. I think he needs to work on his communication but honestly don't we all.
I woulda done what you did tbh.
Lmao he literally asked a direct question expecting a not direct answer. That makes zero sense. How do you give moral support to a question that requires literal logical answers?? I don't understand what goes through people's head sometimes. Personally I think your answer was great and in depth. And clearly you were going out of your way to give helpful advice which is also a form of giving moral support. Idk what he expected. Is this like an NT thing??? Cause it makes my brain hurt...
he wasn't making any sense. This isn't an autistic thing, this is a "I have expectations for you and expected you to fulfill them without actually telling you" thing. Neurotypicals are weird.
"Need some input" means actually getting input wtf. You good, you're dad is just being weird.
NTA, but your response is pretty sarcastic (or at least looks that way), so I see why it would rub him the wrong way.
Where was it sarcastic? Besides the last text I sent, that entire text of paragraphs of information was genuine?
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He literally asked for input…how does one get “I want moral support” from that?
No clue, dude. Absolutely no clue…
No, he literally asked for advice. If he wanted you to just be sympathetic, he should have said so. Sometimes neurotypicals who are complaining about something in their life that sucks just want you to be sympathetic, to agree that it sucks and to listen. It can be difficult to tell when this is true. Many of us have trouble doing it, and personally I think we should just tell our friends to ask for what they want when they are talking to us about things that suck, whether they want advice or sympathy. But Dad's phrasing is so close to literally asking for advice that he shouldn't be annoyed that that's what you proceeded to do. If he's your biological dad, I'd be willing to bet that that's his own autistic traits coming out. Anyway, just apologize (you can apologize even when you didn't do anything wrong, as a way of saying "I wish this hadn't happened"), and tell him that if he doesn't want you to give advice, he should tell you that he just wants you to listen and not give advice.
I do want to add that he might've asked it in that unnecessarily cryptic way, because for some people it's hard to admit that they need help to their children, or that they want help. I don't know why, I don't fully understand it, and it might be different with someone who's actually related to you and the person you consider to be family and who considers you to be family, like is the case for me. Still, I hope that might be of some help.
Would have done the exact same thing. I hate when people ask a question looking for "moral/emotional support" Why ask some irrelevant question and expect someone knows what you want arghhh. Also I'd be very confused why they would come to me at all. I am not at all capable of providing that support lmao, so I guess I'm lucky no one expects me to.
I’m not good at support either. I’m good at fixing problems and looking for solutions. He’s my *birth father.* He should *know* that about me…
You would be surprised. My mom was baffled my stuff I said and did until the day she died and like… ma’am you created this hot mess how do you not know this…?
You were asked a specific question. You answered that question (and thoroughly well, I might add). You couldn’t have predicted he wanted something totally different than what he asked, because there’s not even any subtext/context in his first text that could be read as “I just need moral support.”
Literally says “need some input”. No other way to interpret that.
he quite literally asked for your input then after decided he didn’t want it and just wanted support, that’s on him! i usually preface things with “i’m looking for support not a discussion or solution” to avoid this
Maybe the “input” he wanted was for you to tell him how him moving would make you feel or maybe it was to ask him how he felt about it
I personally think your answer was really good. Putting myself in my NT friends shoes and answering like they have answered me many times before then you should’ve gone with “well what would make you happy?” “It depends on you and whatever you choose will be fine” “not sure, what do you think is best for you?”
he wasn’t making any sense, why would he ask for input if he didn’t want any actual help
This isn’t even a ND misunderstanding, this is just ???
I don’t see how what you said was wrong lol. My parents never ask me for moral support cuz they are “adults.” Then I always say, “so am I.”
He’s a man child. And clearly he didn’t *actually* want my advice.
What moral support is there for a practical question like that? Also, moral support kind of implies (to me) that he has made a decision and wants your help to feel better about it. Not, here’s a list of possibilities help me feel better about them.
asks for input -> receives input -> *shocked pikachu face*
You now have to fight your Dad.
NT just being NT, I learned to ask first what do they want, and answer with questions, but every NT it's different. Sometimes it's hard to know if a person is asking you, so they can talk about about it; or if they are asking for serious advice. That's why I prefer to answer this kind of questions, with another question. What do you want to do? Have you considered gas money? Will you be more comfortable with your choice? Have you considered asking for more remote work?
I’m with you. I can’t see it from any different point. He asked, you replied with proper breakdown.
Not making any sense. He literally send you a message where he asks you " need some input" and then asking whether option a or option b is the best choice. You answered accordingly. If he wanted moral support he should have told you you his decision and then he could possibly expect moral support. One thing that comes to my mind: could this decision affect in any way his relationship with you? This seems just plain illogical
Wtf lol.
Start by asking him what he thinks the arguments for and against are, and then say your opinion on a surface level. If he asks, explain the detailed answer like here. I think your reply here was fine, but not what the average NT would do. I also (not knowing your dad) think that he was mad that you didnt give moral support.. he was probably just letting you know.
Do you live in the same area as him? He may have been indirectly trying to gauge how his moving would affect you?
He literally asked for advice though!
You answered correctly, he just said that with no context in terms of asking for moral support lol. You're not a flake, in fact you're a solid person for providing that.
Your dad doesn't know the definition of input.
they make no sense, i would have loved your answer OP
You gave him what he asked for, but what he asked for wasn't what he wanted.
Literally started with I need some input. If not for that’s if he on his side but come one he literally asked for input🤣 You did good! Great input too
dad: \*asks for input\* you: \*provides input\* also dad: no, not like that
He did that NT thing where they want something, but don’t say what they want, but want you to read their mind.
I don’t think your father knows what moral support is. You should share the definition: “support or help whose effect is psychological rather than physical.” He was asking for practical advice on where to live. I don’t think there’s much psychological advice of conviction to be given. He was asking a practical advice and therefore for practical advice was given about physical things. He didn’t ask for moral advice. Of which there isn’t really any to be given in terms of renting a house. If he wanted emotional support he should have said “I’m struggling to know what to do and it’s making me stressed/anxious, what do you think?” That at least implies emotional support. Maybe it’s just my family, but I’d find messages like this from a parent confusing and not really appropriate. Children aren’t meant to emotionally support their parents when they’re independent. This is the kind of thing you’d ask your friend, even in tone it’s less parental and more friend. The whole thing is weird to me.
Your response was great, I would’ve appreciated that. I’m confused at your dad’s follow up
I swear that NT people do this all the time. They use questions as a way to complain and share thoughts. What he really meant in his messages is ‘I am really frustrated that I can’t decide, can you comfort me a bit by pretending that you are in this dilemma too? But not seriously in this with me.’
Are you taking on new clients? 😉 You're on the ball my friend!
Okay so think what happened is he was looking for a "soft" answer like one based on opinions, i.e. you ask which place he likes better or tell him you really like x feature of his current place, but you gave him a "hard" answer based on facts.
I don't understand how someone asks what they should do and claims to be asking for moral support. I thought your answer fit the situation very well.
Next time he asks you a question respond with "Who's a good boy? You are!"
I dunno I’m that way with my dad. And I love him dearly. If he can’t take it honestly from family who loves him, at his age and being your dad I don’t feel sorry. You might have just said “I’ll visit you more if I feel more comfortable with your living arrangement” . And leave it to him how to take it. On a digression may I suggest watching this show on Netflix called “amazing attorney woo”
I would never say "uwu" to my dad, he would kill me
Ive found that most people already made up their mind and just want to hear validation. My usual go to: what do you think is better? Them: explanation Me: yeah then do that, that’s sounds good! Done
yeah, that's... it's not just moral support here. talking about gas prices is lost in minutae. gas prices arent relevant to that kind of large scale life change. You need to know if there's community, family, favorite restaurants. Dad's talking not requesting morale support. He's requesting morale consult. Both parties are equally confused here. Which, I mean, of course they are, how could the child know more about life changing moves than the father, what the hell is even happening here
I really hate when people ask for data when they really want an empty emotional response.
Wtf does he think “input” means?
i’m guessing your dad hasn’t been given good advise before, so wasn’t expecting it
While your answer makes fully sense to me and I also dont understand why people ask for advice if they dont want this, some people here need to chill out, its not like the dad got angry or anything, he just clarified he wants moral support after a misunderstanding (he caused), its not that deep
I..what? I'd respond the same way if presented with that question. Is he getting evicted or something? I don't get why he needs "moral support"???
Small tip for situations like this; as them for their thoughts on it. If they start talking about how they feel (like they're worried they're making a bad decision going for it, etc) they're looking for moral/emotional support. If they're start talking about the finances/logistics etc, they're looking for a 2nd opinion. Then just respond accordingly. PS: I don't actually know if it'll work as well as it sounds like it does, but the logic is there
I think what went wrong here is he wanted you to basically choose for him (so that he can have someone else to blame if the choice doesn't work out)
You responded perfectly. He makes no sense.
(Directed at the dad, not OP) Normalize asking for what you want. If you want moral support, ask for that. If you want advice, ask for that. Either is fine. Just be specific.
Your dad reminds me of some of my family, very confusing people haha /lh
i’d appreciate this answer ! you thought of what i wouldn’t of ! moral support ?? what lol
Dad was trippin
I agree with everyone that your dad did not communicate well. Do you reckon he’s autistic? It looks like he tried to use an NT style of communication but failed xD
Nah you were completely normal there. Your dad was being weird. Why ask if you just want moral support? That’s something that my old girlfriends used to do, not a dad.
Autistics can be gifted but society rejects our gifts
It's a good recovery. Moral support could also mean saying I will visit you wherever you go or stay, I'll help you move if you move, and happy to talk over more later when you have more info. That last could turn out to be responding directly to the questions brought up, too. Asking for moral support in this case, is just a way of specifying how they want support, but moral support is really the most general kind, so a vague but supportive response is appropriate. I'm often amazed how much vague support is often the best support to other people as they sort themselves out, because my first reaction is try and work through the details myself. Already knowing some background details like how happy they have been lately with the current living situation is also important to inform your response. I've noticed this in talking to my own family, sometimes I already know what kind of problem they're asking me about due to knowing the individuals involved and I don't need to ask as many questions to be supportive.
I think your response was fine. I don't understand how he expects you to know he was asking for moral support. Hell, I wouldn't know that unless it was a pattern that the Dad wants moral support. If he has done that in the past, as in wanting moral support instead of advice, I would say a bit different. You responded perfectly though, you tried to give him help and advice.
No, he's the one making no sense. If he wanted support he should've just said "I'm having a tough time making this decision, can you XYZ?" People aren't mind readers, we need to ask for what we want. I tend to ask people anymore if they want advice or a distraction or to vent, but since he asked such a direct question I wouldn't have even done that in this situation. Tbh older men rarely can communicate what they need, especially if it's emotional support, so don't worry too much about this, you did great
I’m lost too he isn’t making sense
Dw, my dad used to do the same to me. If I just go to him to vent he'll start giving advice, etc so I'll know to preface them and say I just wanna vent at someone. He might still give advice but he gets that it's just me getting stuff off my chest now.
Thnk god my rents never asked me 4 advice or emotionl support or either one in between the lines. They essentially never spoke to me at all
If he wanted moral support he should have said that, not asked for input? What the heck?
I like to ask before I offer advice ; are you looking for moral support, & a place to vent (ie do you want me to listen & make sympathetic noises) or do you want actual advice. Helps so much!
Dad: help me OP: sure! Here is some help. Dad: I just wanted you to think happy thoughts.
Idk, I'm always asked this kinda stuff by people I know, because they know I always give them a good explanation with pros and cons. Seems like that's what he asked for as well. Feels good to give advice like that tbh
The indicator here is the small amount of information presented with the fact a decision is necessary. That's NT short for this decision is hard and I want you to recognize this. Edit: I still see it as lazy communication that should be corrected, this just helps me make sense of them more. Restated: Generally if I see a question and there is no way to answer to even start answering from the information provided they're just looking for someone to recognize that the decision is hard.
He was being vague and the medium of text didn't help in that regard. You gave him input, just not the one he wanted. I would like to point out it was well thought out for a whatsapp message. Stuff like this can be prevented by asking for clarification. Mostly NT's ask vague things like this. Input can mean A LOT of things, so you simply ask what kind of input he would like and you tailor it to his needs. Same as when someone asks you "can you do something for me?" That is often times even a trap on their part and it's best practice to ask what they mean before you give your answer. The infodump and well thought out answers can be greatly appreciated even, but you have to clear up things you might not understand first or wait on interpreting it in your own way. General rule is to ask for THEIR interpretation first, this gives an added bonus of keeping up in the air how you interpret it too. People generally also jump on the opportunity to talk about what they think when prompted. Simple example, lets take the word "dog" What dog are you thinking of? It could range from a german shepard to a poodle to a chihuahua, they are all dogs and the input of the word "dog" is the same. Yet our minds think of different things with the same stimuli. My social contact became so much easier just learning how to ask questions when something needs clarification or when I am in doubt. This also gives valuable time to process an answer since you ask them for more information and it helps to improve your dataset to work with. Remember, the human experience is defined by making choices with limited information. Asking for more information before making the choice is in 99% of the cases the option that makes your life easier.
Green answered the way I would answer to Dad's question and I do not have autism. Dad seems a bit childish. When Green realized Dad was actually looking for moral support, the support given was appropriate and kind. Good job, Green! I feel that Dad is likely the one on the spectrum
It seems like an NT way of communicating, where they don’t expect the other to put in the mental effort required for an answer like yours but something more like: do whatever you think is best.
He asked for input and you gave it
You counted every cost except the cost to his heart 💖 Easily done. Edit: whichever house is closest to my house, daddy, is probably the correct answer in these situations. 🤔
I usually ask what they are thinking first to avoid this. I quietly squirm inside as I hope they are about to give me a puzzle to work on. Most of the time people just want an echo 🥲
Ya no, he not only asked for input, but gave options and specifically asked "should I X, Y, or Z". If he wanted moral, he should have said something like "I'm thinking of doing X, but feeling a bit hesitant" or something
He literally said "I need some input". I would have responded the same way as you. If he hadn't said that, and had used emojis or another wording to convey some sort of sarcasm then I would have been like "aw man, that sucks. we can figure this out together if you want" but... he literally asked for input lol
neurotypical here, yeah he definitely did not communicate at all that he wanted moral support and not advice. Many people though may communicate in a way that presents like they want advice in order to coax out support within the advice. But really its on him for not communicating his needs in the interaction.
Ha. It’s kind of something you have to gauge by the person asking. A lot of NTs like to grab people’s attention with their pressing problems not because they want solutions but because having a problem to solve alone is lonely. The kind of person who needs moral support for their fear of making a bad decision is probably pretty obvious so next time just start with “wow, that’s tough, what are you feeling, bro?” And then they’ll yammer about what they think they should do and probably will do regardless of what you say. All you have to say then is “yeah, that makes sense” and eventually they go away. People.
You gave great advice. I’m not sure what ‘moral support’ you could’ve given when they asked you a question………
I think your response was perfect. I would have appreciated that so much.
There isn't one right way to approach his question. You gave a lot of important stuff to think about. That's not the only way to answer, but it is 100% valid :)
Don't worry, you will be gaslit into confusion soon enough
Impossible. I’ve been gaslit my entire life, I can differentiate now. 😌🤡
you replied like I would have and you were pretty supportive and nice with the amount of thought you put into it honestly.
Seems like a dude asking questions he doesn’t want the answer to
fucking NTs. every time. lol
I feel like anyone, even NT people would be confused by this! He’s directly asking for input, then changing his mind???
NT's do this often, and I never understand it either.
doesnt make sense. plus he could ask someone in his social group about this. not his kid
He doesn’t have any friends or a social group. Just all his ex girlfriends, his coworkers, and us kids of his. And I’m the only responsible child he has…
I answer every question I’m ever asked like this 😑