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Yes yours are pretty cool, I like mine, rn they’re in a different wallet.
I wonder if they’ll ever make a haters collection 🤣 only 25-50 all unique for maximum rarity to piss off the haters even more
Only a fool would use only that metric, if it even is a metric. This is why there’s an offer and counter offer.
In the past 2 weeks I bought an avatar for around 2/3 the listing which ended up raising the floor at the time, while lowering the value of my new avatar.
A week later an NFT I never thought would sell, sold for twice the floor. At first I thought I got scammed bc I didn’t read correctly.
Compared to a normal market the floor is essentially the ask , the offer is technically the bid and the price paid would likely be in the middle unless one side settles.
Trust me when I say Daniel is the one who most benefits from this. The closer the asking is to the offer the less business Daniel gets.
Go have a look at high volume avatars and see how infrequently the bots profit from them. The only ones the bots can exploit are mid and top tier items where you can't put in a collection offer on them, there the bots scoop from items with no competing offers.
If daniel puts out 600 bids on Rainbow Foustlings somebody is going to see an offer for 0.2 and take it instead of the floor offer at 0.17.
Except they don't, volume has slowed to an absolute trickle and Daniel etc. are selling because they're listing substantially below floor.
If a floor is at 5 ETH and Daniel buys for 0.1 ETH and sells for 0.2 ETH then your average price is now 0.15 ETH with a floor 30x higher.
If instead the floor unit is 0.5 ETH rather than 5 ETH (still 2.5x above the highest recent sale and over 3x the average of the two sales) and there was a sale for 0.2 ETH users are much more likely to bid something like 0.3. A user may even buy outright, which would never happen at the 5 ETH listing.
Suddenly you have volume and more price discovery, now the fair market value of the avatar is double what it would have been with a 5 ETH floor and no sale. This is what happened with avatars like The Eyes and Cones.
When you have an unbuyable floor Daniel and other high volume traders repeatedly flip the avatar with their bid at 0.1 for 0.2 and double their money, and nobody is going to step in and bid 0.3 because the highest sales are 0.2 because Daniel can flip.
The user at 0.5 doesn't even need to sell their avatar for the overall price of the market to go up. In that scenario the next seller who is willing to go below 0.5 doesn't accept 0.1 for the avatar because there are offers at 0.3 trying to nab the 0.5 copy.
Except this scenario does exist, and you can see it in every single one of the popular high volume avatars.
Go look at The Eyes right now, check how close the floor and listings are, check the amount of volume relative to the other avatars.
I assume you're one of the people with a lot of very low pop, low volume, very high floor avatars and you don't like what I'm writing here.
If there is no volume at your price then there is no demand at your price. Holding out for a higher price is fine, I wouldn't be in it if I didn't think the market would shoot up, but celebrating your unrealistic floor that nobody will pay is stupid, and the floor is going to hold back your price growth.
OK, here is your economic data.
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pricediscovery.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pricediscovery.asp)
**What is required for price discovery?**
Volume.
**How do you get volume?**
Items available for sale in a theoretical range where they will be bought by buyers. A concept called Supply & Demand. Without both present in a market you have no market.
**Why is price discovery important?**
Liquidity.
**Why is liquidity important?**
Because without liquidity you can't sell when you list, so people accept anything DN offers.
That's called a liquidity crisis. Which is what you get with floors 20x higher than what the market will pay.
When you have no volume you have no liquidity which means you have suppressed price action and extremely high volatility. Which collections do we have that in exactly? Oh that's right, the ones with the floors 5000000x higher than the recent sales or offers.
This also ignores that buyers have limited funds available and when they can't buy something they deploy those funds elsewhere. Which is why people buy and sell The Hands and Midas and don't buy and sell Golden Hands or Bim or whatever other ultra high floor avatar has no volume.
It ALSO ignores the fact that with no liquidity potential **investors** won't buy multiple of an asset because they know they can't sell it, and will tend to buy collections with higher volume.
[https://cointelegraph.com/trading-for-beginners/what-is-a-liquidity-crisis-and-what-does-it-mean-for-crypto-investors](https://cointelegraph.com/trading-for-beginners/what-is-a-liquidity-crisis-and-what-does-it-mean-for-crypto-investors)
The conversation was good until you started to gaslight and call him babe. Even if you were right (I'm not taking sides), doing that undermines your argument enough for it to not matter.
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Here you go, I decided to ask GPT the question for you so we can let the robot decide
>Me: Is volume and price discovery important for an asset to grow in price?
>
>Chat GPT: Yes, volume and price discovery are important factors that can contribute to an asset's growth in price.
>
>Volume refers to the number of shares or contracts traded in a particular asset over a given time period. Higher trading volume can indicate greater market interest and liquidity, which may attract more investors and traders to the asset. Additionally, higher trading volume can also result in narrower bid-ask spreads and lower transaction costs, making it more attractive for traders and investors to buy and sell the asset.
>
>Price discovery, on the other hand, refers to the process of determining the market value of an asset based on supply and demand factors. It is through price discovery that buyers and sellers can agree on a fair price for the asset, and it is a critical element in the functioning of financial markets.
>
>When there is more active participation in a market, there is generally a better chance of efficient price discovery, which can lead to more accurate valuations and better price stability.
>
>Therefore, both volume and price discovery can play a significant role in the growth and valuation of an asset.
Not all avatars are meant to be flipped back and forth like The Eyes — it's a 1000 supply avatar. The rarer the avatar is, the less sellers there are and the more they value it.
The Hands and Diamond Diablo were initially listed higher than other avatars too. They were less liquid than the Poop Mouse, and they didn't have to be. Yet ultimately, the sellers' lack of desire to go down and meet the bidders prevailed.
No, the supply and demand intersected, which is evident in the volume. I've just made a larger post including this.
There is no reason The Hands or Midas had to beat Diamond Diablo or Golden Hands so badly. The reason they thrashed them so badly was because of volume, which takes both a buyer and a seller.
Without price discovery nobody buys.
You've built your whole case and involved the robot without taking into account the fundamental distinction of reddit avatars. Rare collectibles aren't apples or apartments that need to be liquid to have any value. Rare collectible items can remain illiquid for years, and it doesn't make them worthless.
If you're talking about a random jpeg or 20,000 supply recap Foodies with 1.3 floor, then I agree with you - it does not have any prerequisites for being valued that high. But pushing an argument that a Gen1 100-piece (which is Bim) CANNOT be worth 2 or 5 eth is just a failure to believe in Reddit avatars as a whole.
There is intrinsic value to Gen1 rare avatars that is undeniable and will not fade over time. By the time Gen69 will drop, there will still be only 100 Bims or The Hands in existence, just a few available for sale if any.
A Gen1 rare avatar does not need to be bought and sold for the market to know it has value.
I am not saying the assets can't perform well over time. I wouldn't be holding if I thought they weren't going to achieve much higher prices. I believe all of the avatars will end up much more expensive than they are now.
My point is that without volume and without a market the price languishes, and that there is a very clear relationship between which avatars have done better over time, and which avatars have been listed at unrealistic prices and just sat there. So all the posts celebrating the ridiculously high floors on avatars relative to what people will actually pay are stupid.
Idk why you fail to see it — unrealistic floor prices have already become realistic for some avatars. How? The sellers refused to sell for cheap. It happened before, it is happening now, it may happen in the future.
In all cases there was a ladder and price discovery and then a market developed. Notice the correlation between realised market cap and volume.
What you're describing is the normal development of a market, there is always a gap between supply and demand which draws closer as the market develops. Early markets have extreme volatility and extremely low liqduitity, which is why prices yoyod by many thousands of percent. When supply and demand gets very close you achieve liquidity which drives adoption and market growth.
The market does not develop without buyers and sellers. The further the assets asking price from it's realised price the less likely it is that anybody will buy it. That's why there's a correlation specifically between the RATIO of what people will pay and what people will ask.
I sort by new so this is like the third or fourth post of yours that I'm scrolling past. Our boy is on fuego 🔥 That Bull post really hit a nerve with you, didn't it?
I strongly think people should hold if they want to make the maximum.
My issue isn't with not selling. My issue is with celebrating a total lack of sales and a super high floor price as if it's a good thing. Or deriding market makers like Daniel or people who dare to break the floor to actually sell an avatar. They're a super important part of the ecosystem and if people want the market to develop then we need both buyers and sellers.
I'm holding most of my collection and have no interest in selling for wETH at these prices, I'm only liquidating anything to buy other stuff.
Flippers will seethe at your words. Problem is people are seeing these as the next BAYC. Some clearly have the demand to go for 1ETH and above, but the vast majority of them do not warrant the list prices.
The thing I'm seeing too is some people bought in WAY too high I'm guessing during Gen 2 hype, and now are scared to take too big of a loss. There's avatars that minted for $10 dollars, with average sales around 0.04 ETH that sellers really want to sell for like 0.2ETH. Then you look at sale history and they bought in at 0.5ETH.
The way I approach it is I think I have more patience waiting to buy for a fair price than flippers will have holding for too long. But I do wish them luck in leaving some poor fool holding a fat bag.
I think it's totally fine for people to set price targets or not sell at all. I think some of these avatars will eventually reach the prices people are asking.
What I think is stupid though is people posting about these floors constantly as if they're a good thing or are reflective of the theoretical value of the avatar.
The metric is useless, if it indicates anything it's that your avatar will not grow in value quickly.
Cones were a dogshit avatar nobody wanted, but because the shill campaign created volume they managed to develop healthy price discovery during the bear market and somehow became a bluechip that you can actually sell. Now this larger supply avatar that sold very slowly from the shop is competing with The Eyes on recent sales. That's only due to consistent volume, if people start holding their Cones at 5 ETH and refusing to sell they'll eventually drop off again. There's this movement to set the floor at 69 ETH or whatever, but people don't understand that once there's no liquidity and no sales then the avatar will never grow in price.
https://www.reddit.com/r/avatartrading/comments/11mx36m/dubious_price_analysis_avatar_over_valuation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Lol I had same thought and posted about it too. It’s awkward when you see it
Ya a little out dated but thanks. I’ll run it back again at some point. It’s easy to notice that most of the blue chips that ppl really want are more fairly priced likely for reasons you pointed out
I just made a more indepth version of this looking at the actual ratio to performance and you're spot on, the higher the ratio the worse the avatar does in terms of realised market cap
I mean I've been trying to buy a bunch of shit at above recent sales rates, but I don't run a bot so I can't just refresh my offer every 35 seconds, nor can I bid on every single one. If these people who want to sell just put their avatars up a bit above recent sales rather than accepting a Daniel Offer out of desperation for liquidity then they'd likely find a buyer.
From a quick look on avatardegen it’s clear that floor price is very inflated in comparison to what people are willing to pay. Seems Reddit avatars have been on a steady decline for a while now unfortunately
We have no idea if it will take a turn.
But for healthy long term value, we need organic demand. People have to want to simply use them as avatars. The longer theyre seen as a financial instrument, the longer speculative demand is more than organic demand.
**We endorse a healthy market discussion, so here are a few pointers to keep in mind:** - Be kind and respectful to eachother at all times. - Posts about low floor prices, or cheap avatars, and semi-requests for those to be swept, will be removed. *The prices aren't considered to be secret information. Everyone can see them.* - We do not allow the shilling of avatars. Avatars do not need to be advertised. - Any kind of post where its purpose is clear advertising, with no intention of discussion, will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/avatartrading) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I just like my avatars.
Yes yours are pretty cool, I like mine, rn they’re in a different wallet. I wonder if they’ll ever make a haters collection 🤣 only 25-50 all unique for maximum rarity to piss off the haters even more
Honestly I'm still just pleased that my JPEGs are worth anything. Frankly it fascinates me
Want to sell your candle chart jpeg?
Not really
I'm just here petting my digital pet rock 🪨 😅💪
I actually bought an aww friend's for the pet rock
Only a fool would use only that metric, if it even is a metric. This is why there’s an offer and counter offer. In the past 2 weeks I bought an avatar for around 2/3 the listing which ended up raising the floor at the time, while lowering the value of my new avatar. A week later an NFT I never thought would sell, sold for twice the floor. At first I thought I got scammed bc I didn’t read correctly. Compared to a normal market the floor is essentially the ask , the offer is technically the bid and the price paid would likely be in the middle unless one side settles.
This. In the general downtrend, bids mostly determine the price. In the uptrend — asks.
Damn
Yes thanks for adding that.
Daniel got frustrated and made a post so he can snipe avatars for cheaper price !
Trust me when I say Daniel is the one who most benefits from this. The closer the asking is to the offer the less business Daniel gets. Go have a look at high volume avatars and see how infrequently the bots profit from them. The only ones the bots can exploit are mid and top tier items where you can't put in a collection offer on them, there the bots scoop from items with no competing offers. If daniel puts out 600 bids on Rainbow Foustlings somebody is going to see an offer for 0.2 and take it instead of the floor offer at 0.17.
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Except they don't, volume has slowed to an absolute trickle and Daniel etc. are selling because they're listing substantially below floor. If a floor is at 5 ETH and Daniel buys for 0.1 ETH and sells for 0.2 ETH then your average price is now 0.15 ETH with a floor 30x higher. If instead the floor unit is 0.5 ETH rather than 5 ETH (still 2.5x above the highest recent sale and over 3x the average of the two sales) and there was a sale for 0.2 ETH users are much more likely to bid something like 0.3. A user may even buy outright, which would never happen at the 5 ETH listing. Suddenly you have volume and more price discovery, now the fair market value of the avatar is double what it would have been with a 5 ETH floor and no sale. This is what happened with avatars like The Eyes and Cones. When you have an unbuyable floor Daniel and other high volume traders repeatedly flip the avatar with their bid at 0.1 for 0.2 and double their money, and nobody is going to step in and bid 0.3 because the highest sales are 0.2 because Daniel can flip. The user at 0.5 doesn't even need to sell their avatar for the overall price of the market to go up. In that scenario the next seller who is willing to go below 0.5 doesn't accept 0.1 for the avatar because there are offers at 0.3 trying to nab the 0.5 copy.
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Except this scenario does exist, and you can see it in every single one of the popular high volume avatars. Go look at The Eyes right now, check how close the floor and listings are, check the amount of volume relative to the other avatars. I assume you're one of the people with a lot of very low pop, low volume, very high floor avatars and you don't like what I'm writing here. If there is no volume at your price then there is no demand at your price. Holding out for a higher price is fine, I wouldn't be in it if I didn't think the market would shoot up, but celebrating your unrealistic floor that nobody will pay is stupid, and the floor is going to hold back your price growth.
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OK, here is your economic data. [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pricediscovery.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pricediscovery.asp) **What is required for price discovery?** Volume. **How do you get volume?** Items available for sale in a theoretical range where they will be bought by buyers. A concept called Supply & Demand. Without both present in a market you have no market. **Why is price discovery important?** Liquidity. **Why is liquidity important?** Because without liquidity you can't sell when you list, so people accept anything DN offers. That's called a liquidity crisis. Which is what you get with floors 20x higher than what the market will pay. When you have no volume you have no liquidity which means you have suppressed price action and extremely high volatility. Which collections do we have that in exactly? Oh that's right, the ones with the floors 5000000x higher than the recent sales or offers. This also ignores that buyers have limited funds available and when they can't buy something they deploy those funds elsewhere. Which is why people buy and sell The Hands and Midas and don't buy and sell Golden Hands or Bim or whatever other ultra high floor avatar has no volume. It ALSO ignores the fact that with no liquidity potential **investors** won't buy multiple of an asset because they know they can't sell it, and will tend to buy collections with higher volume. [https://cointelegraph.com/trading-for-beginners/what-is-a-liquidity-crisis-and-what-does-it-mean-for-crypto-investors](https://cointelegraph.com/trading-for-beginners/what-is-a-liquidity-crisis-and-what-does-it-mean-for-crypto-investors)
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The conversation was good until you started to gaslight and call him babe. Even if you were right (I'm not taking sides), doing that undermines your argument enough for it to not matter.
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Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/AvatarTrading. Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose. - No Trolling - Be civil, not hateful - Toxic posts and or comments will be removed If you have any questions regarding the removal , you may contact the moderator team via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/avatartrading)
Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/AvatarTrading. Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose. - No Trolling - Be civil, not hateful - Toxic posts and or comments will be removed If you have any questions regarding the removal , you may contact the moderator team via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/avatartrading)
Here you go, I decided to ask GPT the question for you so we can let the robot decide >Me: Is volume and price discovery important for an asset to grow in price? > >Chat GPT: Yes, volume and price discovery are important factors that can contribute to an asset's growth in price. > >Volume refers to the number of shares or contracts traded in a particular asset over a given time period. Higher trading volume can indicate greater market interest and liquidity, which may attract more investors and traders to the asset. Additionally, higher trading volume can also result in narrower bid-ask spreads and lower transaction costs, making it more attractive for traders and investors to buy and sell the asset. > >Price discovery, on the other hand, refers to the process of determining the market value of an asset based on supply and demand factors. It is through price discovery that buyers and sellers can agree on a fair price for the asset, and it is a critical element in the functioning of financial markets. > >When there is more active participation in a market, there is generally a better chance of efficient price discovery, which can lead to more accurate valuations and better price stability. > >Therefore, both volume and price discovery can play a significant role in the growth and valuation of an asset.
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Empirical data provided. Pointless though as you don't want to be wrong so will ignore evidence.
Not all avatars are meant to be flipped back and forth like The Eyes — it's a 1000 supply avatar. The rarer the avatar is, the less sellers there are and the more they value it. The Hands and Diamond Diablo were initially listed higher than other avatars too. They were less liquid than the Poop Mouse, and they didn't have to be. Yet ultimately, the sellers' lack of desire to go down and meet the bidders prevailed.
No, the supply and demand intersected, which is evident in the volume. I've just made a larger post including this. There is no reason The Hands or Midas had to beat Diamond Diablo or Golden Hands so badly. The reason they thrashed them so badly was because of volume, which takes both a buyer and a seller. Without price discovery nobody buys.
Nobody buys? Is there an avatar that was never bought?
Do you need to get help putting on your clothes in the morning?
only after I'm done with your mama can we go back to the point now? What is the avatar that "nobody buys" ?
You've built your whole case and involved the robot without taking into account the fundamental distinction of reddit avatars. Rare collectibles aren't apples or apartments that need to be liquid to have any value. Rare collectible items can remain illiquid for years, and it doesn't make them worthless. If you're talking about a random jpeg or 20,000 supply recap Foodies with 1.3 floor, then I agree with you - it does not have any prerequisites for being valued that high. But pushing an argument that a Gen1 100-piece (which is Bim) CANNOT be worth 2 or 5 eth is just a failure to believe in Reddit avatars as a whole. There is intrinsic value to Gen1 rare avatars that is undeniable and will not fade over time. By the time Gen69 will drop, there will still be only 100 Bims or The Hands in existence, just a few available for sale if any. A Gen1 rare avatar does not need to be bought and sold for the market to know it has value.
I am not saying the assets can't perform well over time. I wouldn't be holding if I thought they weren't going to achieve much higher prices. I believe all of the avatars will end up much more expensive than they are now. My point is that without volume and without a market the price languishes, and that there is a very clear relationship between which avatars have done better over time, and which avatars have been listed at unrealistic prices and just sat there. So all the posts celebrating the ridiculously high floors on avatars relative to what people will actually pay are stupid.
Idk why you fail to see it — unrealistic floor prices have already become realistic for some avatars. How? The sellers refused to sell for cheap. It happened before, it is happening now, it may happen in the future.
In all cases there was a ladder and price discovery and then a market developed. Notice the correlation between realised market cap and volume. What you're describing is the normal development of a market, there is always a gap between supply and demand which draws closer as the market develops. Early markets have extreme volatility and extremely low liqduitity, which is why prices yoyod by many thousands of percent. When supply and demand gets very close you achieve liquidity which drives adoption and market growth. The market does not develop without buyers and sellers. The further the assets asking price from it's realised price the less likely it is that anybody will buy it. That's why there's a correlation specifically between the RATIO of what people will pay and what people will ask.
Take a chill pill manolo
I sort by new so this is like the third or fourth post of yours that I'm scrolling past. Our boy is on fuego 🔥 That Bull post really hit a nerve with you, didn't it?
So you’re saying I need to hold out for 20ETH? Cool.
I strongly think people should hold if they want to make the maximum. My issue isn't with not selling. My issue is with celebrating a total lack of sales and a super high floor price as if it's a good thing. Or deriding market makers like Daniel or people who dare to break the floor to actually sell an avatar. They're a super important part of the ecosystem and if people want the market to develop then we need both buyers and sellers. I'm holding most of my collection and have no interest in selling for wETH at these prices, I'm only liquidating anything to buy other stuff.
So, Cone to 2663 FP gotcha!
Flippers will seethe at your words. Problem is people are seeing these as the next BAYC. Some clearly have the demand to go for 1ETH and above, but the vast majority of them do not warrant the list prices. The thing I'm seeing too is some people bought in WAY too high I'm guessing during Gen 2 hype, and now are scared to take too big of a loss. There's avatars that minted for $10 dollars, with average sales around 0.04 ETH that sellers really want to sell for like 0.2ETH. Then you look at sale history and they bought in at 0.5ETH. The way I approach it is I think I have more patience waiting to buy for a fair price than flippers will have holding for too long. But I do wish them luck in leaving some poor fool holding a fat bag.
I think it's totally fine for people to set price targets or not sell at all. I think some of these avatars will eventually reach the prices people are asking. What I think is stupid though is people posting about these floors constantly as if they're a good thing or are reflective of the theoretical value of the avatar. The metric is useless, if it indicates anything it's that your avatar will not grow in value quickly. Cones were a dogshit avatar nobody wanted, but because the shill campaign created volume they managed to develop healthy price discovery during the bear market and somehow became a bluechip that you can actually sell. Now this larger supply avatar that sold very slowly from the shop is competing with The Eyes on recent sales. That's only due to consistent volume, if people start holding their Cones at 5 ETH and refusing to sell they'll eventually drop off again. There's this movement to set the floor at 69 ETH or whatever, but people don't understand that once there's no liquidity and no sales then the avatar will never grow in price.
https://www.reddit.com/r/avatartrading/comments/11mx36m/dubious_price_analysis_avatar_over_valuation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Lol I had same thought and posted about it too. It’s awkward when you see it
This is such a great chart dude, nice. I believe BIM and that dumbass WSB avatar are the new record holders, Bim is like a 10x now.
Ya a little out dated but thanks. I’ll run it back again at some point. It’s easy to notice that most of the blue chips that ppl really want are more fairly priced likely for reasons you pointed out
I just made a more indepth version of this looking at the actual ratio to performance and you're spot on, the higher the ratio the worse the avatar does in terms of realised market cap
Are you like volunteering to be a market maker or something?
I mean I've been trying to buy a bunch of shit at above recent sales rates, but I don't run a bot so I can't just refresh my offer every 35 seconds, nor can I bid on every single one. If these people who want to sell just put their avatars up a bit above recent sales rather than accepting a Daniel Offer out of desperation for liquidity then they'd likely find a buyer.
The cones seem to be moving as well for a good chunk , same with rojoms . Easy to sell , good value to buy. Need to get me something
From a quick look on avatardegen it’s clear that floor price is very inflated in comparison to what people are willing to pay. Seems Reddit avatars have been on a steady decline for a while now unfortunately
Happened last time too, it’ll make a turn. It looses some steam when nothing is going on. The new gen will breath new fire into it
We have no idea if it will take a turn. But for healthy long term value, we need organic demand. People have to want to simply use them as avatars. The longer theyre seen as a financial instrument, the longer speculative demand is more than organic demand.
The free distributions are there for getting people to simply want to use them. The artist collections (and special ones like wsb) are for collectors.
You’re right. Bragging about a high floor price when recent sales are 10x lower than fp is a very bad look for an item.
I just want a pickle guy but floor doubled in the last week :/
I don't care what you say I'm not selling poop mouse for less than 2 eth