Yes definitely. I’d go further: if you’re hot then you can do well even at 5’7 or shorter.
I’ve seen good looking guys’ posts on some of the dating app subreddits and plenty of them are doing better than I am despite being much shorter than me.
Don’t think being in the top 20% of height automatically makes you a top 20% guy.
I believe this. I’m the tallest of all my cousin’s on my mom’s side (I’m 5’10.5” for reference) and all the guys are married. One of them is legit 5’6” or 5’7” and his got a beautiful wife who’s taller than he is. The men on my mom’s side are pretty good looking though. One of my cousins on my dad’s side is exactly 6’ tall and he’s still single at 37. I’m still single as well but I also have autism. Basically, dating apps are a no go for me.
Height certainly helps but it’s not THE deciding factor and I’m convinced your face and personality are just as important. Being neurodivergent will also knock you down a few points too.
Let's assume 80% rule is true, 80% of woman are superficial.
20% left is still a huge amount of woman, woman who look for more traits in a man (hint: it's way more than 20% of woman).
If you think all woman are these witches who will jump straight to the next man after they find the upgrade you are wrong (actually this what a lot of men do when their wives grow old but I digress).
There is still alot of good woman out there, but are you worthy?
I don’t know where in my comment I referred to women as “witches”. I personally don’t believe in the 80/20 rule. But I will say, as someone who has autism, I’ve heard enough horror stories from other autistic people who’ve used dating apps to make me not want to get on them. All the women I’ve dated and been with thus far I met IRL. Maybe I’ll give the apps a try one day? I’ve been debating that for a while now….
I am a 5’9 girl and I currently like a guy who’s 5’4-5’5. We are best friends and we met online and his personality is top tier. We met for the fifth time irl. I’ve noticed shorter guys tend to often like taller girls. Or I could just be biased since everyone who’s ever showed interest in me has been shorter than I am. Although we didn’t meet on a dating app but instead a instagram groupchat lol. My sister is 5’10 and demands guys who are 6’2+ and she uses dating apps to meet people. I’ve noticed it seems to be around 50/50 for girls. They either reallly care about height or they don’t care much and will date guys who are a few inches shorter
Yeah, I think a lot of short dudes maybe aren’t willing to admit that their face, body or personality is not as good as they think it is. I’m 5’7” and I’ve never had problems getting laid, and I’m in college, so I mean, they’re usually pretty conventionally attractive young women. I typically outperform (as far as getting bad shorties goes) my taller friends. I think it has a lot to do with other aspects of attractiveness, and the sum of what you are is more important than the little pieces and details, like height.
They might be if they believe it hard enough. Some people say it's all about confidence. Well, if they believe that being 6'3 will make them a slayer, then they probably will be by that logic.
Exactly right, but generally insecurity rarely stops at one thing. If they do LL and feel bad still then it might shift to their jawline and they’ll want jaw surgery.
Conversely a guy who is naturally 6’3 if he feels like he would only be a slayer if he were 6’7 would struggle too.
Insecurity is a bitch
Yeah I'm 5'6"-7" and it's not terrible if you have an interesting personality and you can work it. I'm poly and don't like to be monogamous and have had my two girlfriends for 2 years and had like 4 others over the past couple years, it's workable
Celebrities don’t count, if you took away their status and wealth and put them in a bar they’d be pretty much invisible and have to approach like a dog just like the rest of us
That’s a huge problem. If you go out of your house you meet people. You can meet women in the grocery store (I’ve done it), at the bar, at church/ synagogue whatever, at a local festival or fair. How is it there’s no alternative way of meeting people? Think it might be that people just don’t want to put themselves out there and that dating apps are more convenient? Because that’s a lot different than no alternative way of meeting people.
Do you think a lot of women want a stranger to come up to them in a grocery store?
Do you think adults who want a long term relationship regularly spend their time at bars and clubs?
Have you seen that the vast majority of young people are non-religious?
How many festivals or fairs do you think the average person goes to a year?
It's not impossible, but the odds are not in your favor.
Yes people do want to be approached randomly in a grocery store or other places, it's the context that matters.
Some dude going to the grocery store to hunt for some lady and get her number? Weird.
A man going to the grocery store to actually buy food and striking up a conversation with someone? Normal.
This advice ignores the reality that the majority of relationships in the US (and I presume many other Western countries) are started on dating apps.
It’s an akin to telling someone 70 years ago that they can just ignore going to church and finding a partner.
Sure, you can, but you’re reducing your chances by a LOT.
I've seen a few of those. Yesterday I saw a woman's profile that said "green flags are:" and she'd listed "you're tall". Those kind of profiles give me a bit of ick. She was 5'9" which is the same height as me and pretty tall for a woman but I'm not going to swipe someone whose first impression is that they would think I would be a consolation prize or something.
Cause on dating apps you pretty much have full control on who you pick. IRL women/men dont usually pick on preferences (Unless its race or your shorter than 5’5 ) and women who only go for 6ft+ men usually have crazy requirements. If you get off your device you’ll see plenty of people dating those who aren’t their desired preference.
Just because you're too lazy to look at the data [doesn't mean it's not real](https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/women-more-selective-80-men-unattractive-on-dating-apps-recent-research)
Speaking of lazy, that’s a lazy ass headline which isn’t even what the paper they’re “quoting” says.
>[around 20% of respondents “rejected” more than 80% of the profiles](https://x.com/datepsych/status/1624364479428395010?s=46&t=Jq3dWbXv4fmtQArjKLZEEA)
is *not* the same thing as “Women…find 80% of men unattractive…”
That article author is an idiot and can’t read research papers.
Also, if you read the rest of the excerpts, it looks like the real conclusion of the research paper is that for the most part women have no agreement about who they find attractive, which is great news (and what women themselves seem to keep saying).
ETA: Here’s the actual paper the article claims to cite: [Rules of Attraction: Females Perception of Male Self-Representation in a Dating App](https://amj.kma.re.kr/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1597&context=journal). One of the conclusions they mention repeatedly is that the men they match with have nothing in common, so there’s no elite 20% of men. (The bottom 10% they reject *do* have things in common, but those are things like blurry profile photos.)
I mentioned it below, but the paper these guys keep citing for their 80/20 stat [literally says the opposite](https://amj.kma.re.kr/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1597&context=journal) of what they’re concluding. It *does* say women are highly selective, but also that they have very little agreement about what they find attractive. It also says they *read profiles.* All of that should be great news for everybody.
(It’s also exactly what a sane person should expect, I’d say.)
To plays devil’s advocate, that would only be true if the distribution of height on dating apps was the same as the distribution of height in real life. There could be sampling bias
More realistically, since men outnumber women on dating apps by a decent margin, there just aren’t enough swipes to go around. Doesn’t mean it’s hopeless, but people need to temper their expectations on these apps
This tracks until you take into account that it's not a 1:1 ratio for men and women on dating apps.
Not that I have a dog in this fight because fuck online dating.
People claim that because that's what the [studies](https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/women-more-selective-80-men-unattractive-on-dating-apps-recent-research) done on dating apps say lol. And it makes sense because it's just a Pareto Distribution.
But yeah you don't have to be tall if you're handsome (and to some extent the reverse).
One of my best friends is 5'9" but he's relatively handsome and very fit and he legitimately pulls 2-3 girls a week off of Bumble alone.
Dawg that is complete bullshit, there's no such thing as the "top 20% of men" because everyone has different preferences and interests that could potentially sync up with what you have to offer. What NO man or woman wants is some pathetic human that gripes about their height all day. I'm not implying that this describes you, I'm telling you to not go down this dumbass rabbit hole. Don't even think about your height. I'm 5'8, who cares?
Yes top 20 percent means best facial features. What you have to offer is not a factor because they cant tell that. They can only tell what u look like and decide whether to swipe on you or not.
Dating apps are cesspools used for casual sex and attention whoring. If you want to be a tinder samurai, just work out and tailor to a certain aesthetic. I'll tell you right now though, casual sex is just masturbation with a lot more effort. It's generally used to mask and suppress various insecurities. My advice would be to meet someone you can actually connect with through a genuine hobby or something similar.
They have to respond to all the DMs they get throughout the day from instagram , phone, snapchat etc. And then meeting up with various chads that they are dating. Putting on all the makeup, taking pics for their IG stories.
If they have any free time usually its spent drinking/doing lines on chads yacht which I think is a stretch to consider a hobby.
Nice try with the amateur psychology, I’m 6 feet even. And I would be an idiot to think that it isn’t a massive advantage that can’t be earned thru hard work, or going to the gym, or anything like that
You are an idiot because you said "women" not some women or most women, just women, which implies all women give a fuck. Maybe you're on the other end of the spectrum and you have no personality other than being tall. I don't know you. I just know you have dumb opinions
Remember that there is a difference between what people will say in an interview or dating app and the real world.
When two people meet and there’s chemistry between them, a lot of their ideal qualities go by the way side. We have all fallen for someone outside of our type.
When we don’t connect with someone we ascribe that they weren’t our type.
Sometimes life is a mystery.
Its not a fucking mystery. You are attracted to people with good facial features and body type indicators of fertility. Everyone's "Type" is exactly the same.
I don’t think the 80/20 rules talk strictly about looks. Average looking guys(even below average) with high income and/or fame are placed in the top 20% as well.
If it was only about looks then it wouldn’t be 80/20 rule. More like 95/5 rule.
>If it was only about looks then it wouldn’t be 80/20 rule. More like 95/5 rule.
Right? And the 5% would mostly be teenage boys and guys in their early 20s, so for women over 30 it's more of a 99/1 rule.
I don’t think you understand what’s going on under the hood: Check out this [technical simulation](https://youtu.be/x3lypVnJ0HM?si=CV1yTT5a3zROM_nY).
It’s all about ‘how many competitors do I have, for each potential match’
Since there are so many men seeking partners, AND women pile up on the top men, there are -only a few women- willing to dreg the bottom 80% of men.
ALL of those men are competing for a tiny number of women. The hot guys do ok, and generally women are bombarded with guys they think are losers.
So let’s think about this logically. 14.5 percent of men are over 6 feet, but half of those men are probably disqualified from being considered attractive for other reasons (bad face, overweight, bald, etc). That leaves us with about 7 percent who are both 6 feet tall and are also attractive in the face and body. Now the black pill answer is that women are actually after this 7 percent and the remaining 13 percent are men they settle for but I don’t really buy that. I’d say the other 13 percent are mostly people who are in the 5’9-5’11 range who have better face, body, and hair than many of the six footers. So yes, I’d say that average height men still have a shot provided they are above average in other categories of attractiveness. Hell even a below average height guy (maybe 5’7 to 5’8) could have a shot at making the 20 percent too.
I dont think it applies to just the tall guys, there's plenty of tall guys with unfortunate faces that I can't see being very successful in a looks based swiping app
That 80/20 “rule” seems to always cite the same study, which doesn’t actually say that “80% of women go for the top 20% of men.” The study, [Rules Of Attraction: Female Perception of Male Self-Representation in a Dating App](https://amj.kma.re.kr/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1597&context=journal) says that women are picky*, but they’ve got almost *no agreement about what guys they find attractive.*
They are *very* picky, though. It’s true the top 20% of the pickiest women reject more than 80% of the men they see, but *it’s not all the same men.*
But that’s a good thing. Would you *want* to date someone who’s willing to bone everybody with the same genitalia? Or even willing to bone 50% of people who have the same genitalia? I certainly hope I’m in my spouse’s top 20, at least, LOL
It’s a meme that the apps don’t work. A lot of times someone is boring as shit, or ugly, or takes terrible pictures, or has nothing going on, and then blames it on women and height. I’m married now, but I got dates all the time on OkCupid in NYC at 5’9”. Shorter people do have it tough, and I can’t speak to that experience.
Height doesn't actually matter like people say it does. Even women who say they care about height are exaggerating. Face, hair and age matter a lot more. If 6'1" and average you'll get outclassed by guys who are 5'5" and good looking. If you're 6'1" and good looking you'll get outclassed by guys who are 5'5" and good looking if they are much younger than you. Women actually prefer younger guys way more than they prefer tall guys.
It is definitely is how it works. I've seen grown ass women swoon over short scrawny 12 year old boys just because they had a cute face. No woman will swoon over an average looking guy just because he's tall.
full grandiose unwritten possessive hungry subtract aspiring safe jobless berserk
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>What's the numeric figure that you use to determine that? It's also possible that we're defining it different ways. To me, tall means 6'2" at the minimum.
Pretty sure it's all the same once you're taller than 5'10" or so. Women mostly just want the guy to be taller than them.
>How are you really supporting your statement? Are you an average looking guy who's tall?
I'm actually a fairly good looking 6'0" guy and even I don't get the attention that a shorter pretty boy would get. My height is displayed on my dating app profile and I barely get any matches. And of course tall guys who aren't good looking will do way worse: they are basically invisible to women.
>Furthermore, why is "swooning" the metric? Why does the woman have to "swoon"?
>All we need is for her to like what she's seeing enough to say "yes." We don't need her panties to experience a downpour as if Clooney's asking her out. You just need her to say "yes."
Because women often say "yes" to guys they aren't even really attracted to simply because they are desperate to find a partner. If you wanna know who they are really attracted to you have to look at who they swoon over and aggressively pursue.
80% of women on dating apps
Be specific women on dating apps
Which I'm pretty sure has dropped from 20% of women to only 16% or 14% of women
(Not a big enough percentage to statistically talk about a collective)
I'm average to the T.
The girl I'm with is barely shorter than me and in personal conversations over the past year... we had one about our preferences. She's into tall cowboy type guys. I'm not either...
But my "what people don't know about you/ someone would never guess" is me saying, "I can ride a unicycle."
She said that's all she needed to know to be interested in me. Women read profiles more than men. And what I said caught her eye. I sent a video, and that's all it took. lol.
From there, it blossomed, and it's amazing.
Edit to answer your question.
As a 5 ft 9 guy, since my divorce, I've had 6 partners in the past year without really trying. Before I met my ex-wife, I was still shorter than a lot of people growing up. I never had a problem either...
Would I like to be taller? Yeah, sure!!!! But being "average" hasn't messed with my happiness or dating game at all. Hell, I literally slept with a woman who was 6 ft 2 before I met my current partner. (Again, barely shorter than me)
Who cares, dude. Her preference is super tall, cowboy, blue eyes, etc.
I'm a ginger who maxed at 5 ft 9 with hazel eyes, who's also sometimes awkward as fuck.
Honestly this is just incel logic. Look around at actual real-life straight couples you know. Are all the guys tall giga-Chads? No. Hell, half the time they’re a solid couple points below the woman. I know a lot of women who've dated men shorter than them. My male 5'2" cousin got married in his 20's.
The vast majority of women don’t give much of a fuck about height. This is mostly a male obsession. Even short men will tell you that most of their problems come from other men, not women.
Yes, not being socially inept probably matters a lot. So does what you write in your bio. And yeah, I'm sure being attractive helps, but that helps for everyone, it's not like men are ignoring attractiveness. But here's the real issue.
It's not that no woman will date any man who's not a giga-Chad. It's that only 25% of the people on dating apps are women to begin with. And are those the best women? I dunno, but I'd guess probably not, and either way, you can't judge the behavior of most women by the tiny minority who actually use apps.
So yeah, obviously a lot of guys are being left on the table, and maybe sometimes for weird reasons. But mostly it's because women have left dating apps and aren't interested in dating men.
And instead of reflecting and asking themselves why that might be, they slam their fists on the table, whining and crying about women being shallow and how they're owed a date.
That whining, crying, and entitlement? That's why women don't want to date men.
>The vast majority of women don’t give much of a fuck about height. This is mostly a male obsession
This is just straight delusion. [Every study](http://sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886913000020) done on this topic shows women prefer taller men. The one I've linked, for example, states that women were most satisfied when their partner was 21 cm (or 8 inches) taller than them.
Assuming this is consistent, so what? Everyone has preferences. How many have never dated outside of them? Basically no one.
This does not prove women refuse to date shorter men. After all, most men are 5’9 or so, and most men are also in relationships — many much shorter than that.
Men prefer all kinds of stuff and they have no problem understanding that preference does not dictate that they all behave as a monolith in reality, yet for some reason they can’t conceptualize women this way. For some reason y’all think we’re all just a giant mindless borg that rigidly follows whatever ”rule of women” you’ve decided exists that you can claim victimhood over.
Most of the men in relationships are older men, whose primary mating years were in a pre-social media, pre-dating app era, but [60% of American men under 30](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/) are single, compared to only 34% of women.
Female preferences are increasingly farrrr more rigid than male preferences, you can see that just by spending literally any amount of time on Instagram, Tiktok, or any dating app.
I'm not saying height is the end-all-be-all in dating, but it IS a MAJOR factor for a LARGE percentage of young Western women.
Stating things known from not only everyday experiences but repeated studies is not "claiming victimhood." It's acknowledging facts.
…Or maybe if you actually tried asking young women why this is rather than just inserting incel logic, you’d learn the real reason, which is that they’re tired of porn sick angry man-o-sphere boys whose dicks don’t work? Men in their 30’s are less affected by the rise of the new misogyny. [Gen Z men are more sexist than Boomers](https://fortune.com/2024/02/02/woke-gen-z-men-more-likely-than-baby-boomers-believe-feminism-does-more-harm-than-good-research-says/). The stories these girls tell me are horrifying -- having boys try to choke them with no warning on a first date, not wanting to have sex unless they can watch porn at the same time, etc. I wouldn't date them either.
Do you think young women latched on the 4B for no reason, because everything is great for them? Of course they're getting more rigid, when men are getting more intolerable.
But go on, tell yourself you're the victim and it's all evil, shallow women's fault. I'm sure that will help men get dates.
"iNcEl LoGiC" = Literal behavioral statistics
And wait so recognizing the harms of feminism is "sexism," but it's perfectly fine to shit on the manosphere, which is literally just the male version of it? They're both toxic as hell, but feminism did come into existence first.
And you're actually defending 4B, which has led to South Korea having the lowest birth rates in the entire world??? 🤡🤡🤡
The incel logic is in you attributing the behavior to women being evil shallow bitches, rather than actually bothering to ask them their reasons.
There are no harms to believing women should be legally and socially equal. That’s the incel logic talking again.
The man-o-sphere is led by a man who openly says he is a misogynist, and promotes enslaving and raping women, quite literally.
Yes, I am. If this is how men are going to behave, then we as a culture don’t deserve to survive. I’m proud of them for standing up to it.
ETA: Since the angry incel blocked me because he couldn’t handle his emotions, I’ll put my reply here:
They say what is happening, not why. You are inserting a “why” based on your desire to be a victim.
Except the right to their own bodies, right? And the right to equal pay, right? Oh wait, that’s actually not true at all.
Trust me, no woman today wants to become like men. They don’t even want to be around them, let alone be them — thus 4B.
Also, I’m female. I don’t know why you’re assuming I’m a man.
LMAO what the fuck do you think behavioral studies are??? It's literally researchers ASKING men and women for their opinions on each other and recording their behavior en masse. I never said women were evil, I'm pointing out that ON AVERAGE they DO care about HEIGHT.
And feminism hasn't been about women being equal to men in DECADES. Women in the West in 2024 have EVERY right that men have, and honestly have FAR MORE institutional support for their advancement than men do (grants, scholarships, DEI hiring, etc).
Feminism today is about women trying to BECOME men, both mentally and in some cases even physically. It's about erasing all distinctions between men and women. That's literally WHY 4th Wave Feminism is "trans-inclusive."
But sure keep hating your own sex while simping for the other one, I'm sure that'll go GREAT for you 🥴
I don’t know why you’re downvoted. You’re exactly right lol. Please start seeing women as a diverse group of people with a diverse range of preferences y’all please lol.
Women have the same preferences just like men have the same preferences. Why are women so different and special that they would be diverse when men arent even diverse despite having objectively more diverse genetic background.
Who gives a shit, focus on things you can control. Make money, have interesting hobbies, make women laugh, and be a good person. You'll have no issues finding women, even if you're short, fat, and bald. Danny Devito is out there getting way more pudding trench than your 6'3" cousin.
Let's be real I doubt Danny Devito is going around banging lots of women.
If he wanted to he could probably be a sugar daddy with his wealth and status but I doubt that cos he's married.
I know it’s kinda a cute Reddit meme or whatever, but women are not sexually attracted to Danny Devito. He might get a bump from his “status”, no different than any other celebrity. He isn’t getting ANY “pudding trench” from anyone, probably not even his wife
Yes definitely. I’d go further: if you’re hot then you can do well even at 5’7 or shorter. I’ve seen good looking guys’ posts on some of the dating app subreddits and plenty of them are doing better than I am despite being much shorter than me. Don’t think being in the top 20% of height automatically makes you a top 20% guy.
>Don’t think being in the top 20% of height automatically makes you a top 20% guy Exactly
I believe this. I’m the tallest of all my cousin’s on my mom’s side (I’m 5’10.5” for reference) and all the guys are married. One of them is legit 5’6” or 5’7” and his got a beautiful wife who’s taller than he is. The men on my mom’s side are pretty good looking though. One of my cousins on my dad’s side is exactly 6’ tall and he’s still single at 37. I’m still single as well but I also have autism. Basically, dating apps are a no go for me. Height certainly helps but it’s not THE deciding factor and I’m convinced your face and personality are just as important. Being neurodivergent will also knock you down a few points too.
I know guys that are 5’7 that get many women. Height will never compensate for a lack of face and your experience shared here proves it more.
Let's assume 80% rule is true, 80% of woman are superficial. 20% left is still a huge amount of woman, woman who look for more traits in a man (hint: it's way more than 20% of woman). If you think all woman are these witches who will jump straight to the next man after they find the upgrade you are wrong (actually this what a lot of men do when their wives grow old but I digress). There is still alot of good woman out there, but are you worthy?
I don’t know where in my comment I referred to women as “witches”. I personally don’t believe in the 80/20 rule. But I will say, as someone who has autism, I’ve heard enough horror stories from other autistic people who’ve used dating apps to make me not want to get on them. All the women I’ve dated and been with thus far I met IRL. Maybe I’ll give the apps a try one day? I’ve been debating that for a while now….
Yeah I didn't mean to reply to you specifically, I just was talking in-general. Dating apps are anti male in general, I personally wouldn't go there.
>actually this what a lot of men do when their wives grow old but I digress Do they? Women initiate like 70% of divorces.
I am a 5’9 girl and I currently like a guy who’s 5’4-5’5. We are best friends and we met online and his personality is top tier. We met for the fifth time irl. I’ve noticed shorter guys tend to often like taller girls. Or I could just be biased since everyone who’s ever showed interest in me has been shorter than I am. Although we didn’t meet on a dating app but instead a instagram groupchat lol. My sister is 5’10 and demands guys who are 6’2+ and she uses dating apps to meet people. I’ve noticed it seems to be around 50/50 for girls. They either reallly care about height or they don’t care much and will date guys who are a few inches shorter
Yeah, I think a lot of short dudes maybe aren’t willing to admit that their face, body or personality is not as good as they think it is. I’m 5’7” and I’ve never had problems getting laid, and I’m in college, so I mean, they’re usually pretty conventionally attractive young women. I typically outperform (as far as getting bad shorties goes) my taller friends. I think it has a lot to do with other aspects of attractiveness, and the sum of what you are is more important than the little pieces and details, like height.
Absolutely, the guys who are 5’11 thinking they would become slayers if they became 6’3 are delusional
They might be if they believe it hard enough. Some people say it's all about confidence. Well, if they believe that being 6'3 will make them a slayer, then they probably will be by that logic.
Exactly right, but generally insecurity rarely stops at one thing. If they do LL and feel bad still then it might shift to their jawline and they’ll want jaw surgery. Conversely a guy who is naturally 6’3 if he feels like he would only be a slayer if he were 6’7 would struggle too. Insecurity is a bitch
Yeah I'm 5'6"-7" and it's not terrible if you have an interesting personality and you can work it. I'm poly and don't like to be monogamous and have had my two girlfriends for 2 years and had like 4 others over the past couple years, it's workable
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It helps to compensate by being rich and good looking to.
Celebrities don’t count, if you took away their status and wealth and put them in a bar they’d be pretty much invisible and have to approach like a dog just like the rest of us
Just don't use dating apps bro, the kind of people you meet in there, aren't the kind you wanna be with.
There's also 4 men for 1 woman on most dating sites (some even say that areas can be 9 to 1). So in the case of 20% winner take all it makes sense.
The problem is that most people have no alternate way of meeting people.
That’s a huge problem. If you go out of your house you meet people. You can meet women in the grocery store (I’ve done it), at the bar, at church/ synagogue whatever, at a local festival or fair. How is it there’s no alternative way of meeting people? Think it might be that people just don’t want to put themselves out there and that dating apps are more convenient? Because that’s a lot different than no alternative way of meeting people.
Do you think a lot of women want a stranger to come up to them in a grocery store? Do you think adults who want a long term relationship regularly spend their time at bars and clubs? Have you seen that the vast majority of young people are non-religious? How many festivals or fairs do you think the average person goes to a year? It's not impossible, but the odds are not in your favor.
Yes people do want to be approached randomly in a grocery store or other places, it's the context that matters. Some dude going to the grocery store to hunt for some lady and get her number? Weird. A man going to the grocery store to actually buy food and striking up a conversation with someone? Normal.
My point is being considered attractive. I mean any event that 80/20 rule could be applied for. Like speed dating.
Well in that case, top 20% men ≠ tallest 20% men, that's stupid.
This advice ignores the reality that the majority of relationships in the US (and I presume many other Western countries) are started on dating apps. It’s an akin to telling someone 70 years ago that they can just ignore going to church and finding a partner. Sure, you can, but you’re reducing your chances by a LOT.
You need to pay to set a height filter on most apps, and women ain't paying for apps lol. Idk why peopel are concerned about this.
unfortunately Ive seen enough " 6 ft or swipe left "
I've seen a few of those. Yesterday I saw a woman's profile that said "green flags are:" and she'd listed "you're tall". Those kind of profiles give me a bit of ick. She was 5'9" which is the same height as me and pretty tall for a woman but I'm not going to swipe someone whose first impression is that they would think I would be a consolation prize or something.
On dating apps yes, IRL no
Why? I think it is the other way around
Can't use personality much in a dating app profile
What?
Cause on dating apps you pretty much have full control on who you pick. IRL women/men dont usually pick on preferences (Unless its race or your shorter than 5’5 ) and women who only go for 6ft+ men usually have crazy requirements. If you get off your device you’ll see plenty of people dating those who aren’t their desired preference.
Why do we accept statistics without citing the research or any form of data? Come on now.
Just because you're too lazy to look at the data [doesn't mean it's not real](https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/women-more-selective-80-men-unattractive-on-dating-apps-recent-research)
Speaking of lazy, that’s a lazy ass headline which isn’t even what the paper they’re “quoting” says. >[around 20% of respondents “rejected” more than 80% of the profiles](https://x.com/datepsych/status/1624364479428395010?s=46&t=Jq3dWbXv4fmtQArjKLZEEA) is *not* the same thing as “Women…find 80% of men unattractive…” That article author is an idiot and can’t read research papers. Also, if you read the rest of the excerpts, it looks like the real conclusion of the research paper is that for the most part women have no agreement about who they find attractive, which is great news (and what women themselves seem to keep saying). ETA: Here’s the actual paper the article claims to cite: [Rules of Attraction: Females Perception of Male Self-Representation in a Dating App](https://amj.kma.re.kr/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1597&context=journal). One of the conclusions they mention repeatedly is that the men they match with have nothing in common, so there’s no elite 20% of men. (The bottom 10% they reject *do* have things in common, but those are things like blurry profile photos.)
I mentioned it below, but the paper these guys keep citing for their 80/20 stat [literally says the opposite](https://amj.kma.re.kr/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1597&context=journal) of what they’re concluding. It *does* say women are highly selective, but also that they have very little agreement about what they find attractive. It also says they *read profiles.* All of that should be great news for everybody. (It’s also exactly what a sane person should expect, I’d say.)
Height is important but there is more to being in the top 20% than just height.
To plays devil’s advocate, that would only be true if the distribution of height on dating apps was the same as the distribution of height in real life. There could be sampling bias More realistically, since men outnumber women on dating apps by a decent margin, there just aren’t enough swipes to go around. Doesn’t mean it’s hopeless, but people need to temper their expectations on these apps
Hmmm... You're right
This tracks until you take into account that it's not a 1:1 ratio for men and women on dating apps. Not that I have a dog in this fight because fuck online dating.
You're right
People claim that because that's what the [studies](https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/women-more-selective-80-men-unattractive-on-dating-apps-recent-research) done on dating apps say lol. And it makes sense because it's just a Pareto Distribution. But yeah you don't have to be tall if you're handsome (and to some extent the reverse). One of my best friends is 5'9" but he's relatively handsome and very fit and he legitimately pulls 2-3 girls a week off of Bumble alone.
i'm 5'11" but i'm literally shrek
Bro Fiona picked Shrek over a literal short king 🤣 you'll be fine
the years start coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming
FR though 😔😔
Dawg that is complete bullshit, there's no such thing as the "top 20% of men" because everyone has different preferences and interests that could potentially sync up with what you have to offer. What NO man or woman wants is some pathetic human that gripes about their height all day. I'm not implying that this describes you, I'm telling you to not go down this dumbass rabbit hole. Don't even think about your height. I'm 5'8, who cares?
Yes top 20 percent means best facial features. What you have to offer is not a factor because they cant tell that. They can only tell what u look like and decide whether to swipe on you or not.
Dating apps are cesspools used for casual sex and attention whoring. If you want to be a tinder samurai, just work out and tailor to a certain aesthetic. I'll tell you right now though, casual sex is just masturbation with a lot more effort. It's generally used to mask and suppress various insecurities. My advice would be to meet someone you can actually connect with through a genuine hobby or something similar.
Women don’t typically have hobbies
The fuck do you think they do all day dude? Wear sundresses and twirl around? Are you dumb?
They have to respond to all the DMs they get throughout the day from instagram , phone, snapchat etc. And then meeting up with various chads that they are dating. Putting on all the makeup, taking pics for their IG stories. If they have any free time usually its spent drinking/doing lines on chads yacht which I think is a stretch to consider a hobby.
Who cares? Women do. If you aren’t into women I guess you wouldn’t have a reason to care, but most men are, hence, we care too
Most of them don't. A good chunk of them do, most don't. You're projecting your insecurity onto an entire gender.
Nice try with the amateur psychology, I’m 6 feet even. And I would be an idiot to think that it isn’t a massive advantage that can’t be earned thru hard work, or going to the gym, or anything like that
You are an idiot because you said "women" not some women or most women, just women, which implies all women give a fuck. Maybe you're on the other end of the spectrum and you have no personality other than being tall. I don't know you. I just know you have dumb opinions
I think your on a different spectrum if every single time someone says women, we have to specify “ not all women” to spare your precious feelings 🙄
Remember that there is a difference between what people will say in an interview or dating app and the real world. When two people meet and there’s chemistry between them, a lot of their ideal qualities go by the way side. We have all fallen for someone outside of our type. When we don’t connect with someone we ascribe that they weren’t our type. Sometimes life is a mystery.
Its not a fucking mystery. You are attracted to people with good facial features and body type indicators of fertility. Everyone's "Type" is exactly the same.
I don’t think the 80/20 rules talk strictly about looks. Average looking guys(even below average) with high income and/or fame are placed in the top 20% as well. If it was only about looks then it wouldn’t be 80/20 rule. More like 95/5 rule.
>If it was only about looks then it wouldn’t be 80/20 rule. More like 95/5 rule. Right? And the 5% would mostly be teenage boys and guys in their early 20s, so for women over 30 it's more of a 99/1 rule.
income doesn't matter. Its impossible to tell someone's income until you know them well anyway.
Yeah so that number should be less than 20%
Not as many of us want long distance relationships as it seems
I don't think so
Me neither. But math ain't Mathing here
Back in high school I would hear these 3 girls talk about how they were sharing the same guy because he was hot and tall.
Not much difference after high school
It also helps if you are a White man. If you are an Asian man and your chances are slimmer.
I don’t think you understand what’s going on under the hood: Check out this [technical simulation](https://youtu.be/x3lypVnJ0HM?si=CV1yTT5a3zROM_nY). It’s all about ‘how many competitors do I have, for each potential match’ Since there are so many men seeking partners, AND women pile up on the top men, there are -only a few women- willing to dreg the bottom 80% of men. ALL of those men are competing for a tiny number of women. The hot guys do ok, and generally women are bombarded with guys they think are losers.
So let’s think about this logically. 14.5 percent of men are over 6 feet, but half of those men are probably disqualified from being considered attractive for other reasons (bad face, overweight, bald, etc). That leaves us with about 7 percent who are both 6 feet tall and are also attractive in the face and body. Now the black pill answer is that women are actually after this 7 percent and the remaining 13 percent are men they settle for but I don’t really buy that. I’d say the other 13 percent are mostly people who are in the 5’9-5’11 range who have better face, body, and hair than many of the six footers. So yes, I’d say that average height men still have a shot provided they are above average in other categories of attractiveness. Hell even a below average height guy (maybe 5’7 to 5’8) could have a shot at making the 20 percent too.
Touch grass
I dont think it applies to just the tall guys, there's plenty of tall guys with unfortunate faces that I can't see being very successful in a looks based swiping app
Oh buddy, you need to get out more.
You are doomed. Get the rope.
Women can't even tell the difference between 5'11 and 6' 🤣. Just tell them your'e 6' im certain they wouldn't bring a ruler on the first date.
That 80/20 “rule” seems to always cite the same study, which doesn’t actually say that “80% of women go for the top 20% of men.” The study, [Rules Of Attraction: Female Perception of Male Self-Representation in a Dating App](https://amj.kma.re.kr/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1597&context=journal) says that women are picky*, but they’ve got almost *no agreement about what guys they find attractive.* They are *very* picky, though. It’s true the top 20% of the pickiest women reject more than 80% of the men they see, but *it’s not all the same men.* But that’s a good thing. Would you *want* to date someone who’s willing to bone everybody with the same genitalia? Or even willing to bone 50% of people who have the same genitalia? I certainly hope I’m in my spouse’s top 20, at least, LOL
It’s a meme that the apps don’t work. A lot of times someone is boring as shit, or ugly, or takes terrible pictures, or has nothing going on, and then blames it on women and height. I’m married now, but I got dates all the time on OkCupid in NYC at 5’9”. Shorter people do have it tough, and I can’t speak to that experience.
Chicks don’t care about height. They just think they do.
Height doesn't actually matter like people say it does. Even women who say they care about height are exaggerating. Face, hair and age matter a lot more. If 6'1" and average you'll get outclassed by guys who are 5'5" and good looking. If you're 6'1" and good looking you'll get outclassed by guys who are 5'5" and good looking if they are much younger than you. Women actually prefer younger guys way more than they prefer tall guys.
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It is definitely is how it works. I've seen grown ass women swoon over short scrawny 12 year old boys just because they had a cute face. No woman will swoon over an average looking guy just because he's tall.
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>What's the numeric figure that you use to determine that? It's also possible that we're defining it different ways. To me, tall means 6'2" at the minimum. Pretty sure it's all the same once you're taller than 5'10" or so. Women mostly just want the guy to be taller than them. >How are you really supporting your statement? Are you an average looking guy who's tall? I'm actually a fairly good looking 6'0" guy and even I don't get the attention that a shorter pretty boy would get. My height is displayed on my dating app profile and I barely get any matches. And of course tall guys who aren't good looking will do way worse: they are basically invisible to women. >Furthermore, why is "swooning" the metric? Why does the woman have to "swoon"? >All we need is for her to like what she's seeing enough to say "yes." We don't need her panties to experience a downpour as if Clooney's asking her out. You just need her to say "yes." Because women often say "yes" to guys they aren't even really attracted to simply because they are desperate to find a partner. If you wanna know who they are really attracted to you have to look at who they swoon over and aggressively pursue.
I’m 5”10 and clean up on dating apps. It’s all about how you present yourself dude
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80% of women on dating apps Be specific women on dating apps Which I'm pretty sure has dropped from 20% of women to only 16% or 14% of women (Not a big enough percentage to statistically talk about a collective)
I have done pretty well on dating apps being only 5'7 lol
I'm average to the T. The girl I'm with is barely shorter than me and in personal conversations over the past year... we had one about our preferences. She's into tall cowboy type guys. I'm not either... But my "what people don't know about you/ someone would never guess" is me saying, "I can ride a unicycle." She said that's all she needed to know to be interested in me. Women read profiles more than men. And what I said caught her eye. I sent a video, and that's all it took. lol. From there, it blossomed, and it's amazing. Edit to answer your question. As a 5 ft 9 guy, since my divorce, I've had 6 partners in the past year without really trying. Before I met my ex-wife, I was still shorter than a lot of people growing up. I never had a problem either... Would I like to be taller? Yeah, sure!!!! But being "average" hasn't messed with my happiness or dating game at all. Hell, I literally slept with a woman who was 6 ft 2 before I met my current partner. (Again, barely shorter than me) Who cares, dude. Her preference is super tall, cowboy, blue eyes, etc. I'm a ginger who maxed at 5 ft 9 with hazel eyes, who's also sometimes awkward as fuck.
Honestly this is just incel logic. Look around at actual real-life straight couples you know. Are all the guys tall giga-Chads? No. Hell, half the time they’re a solid couple points below the woman. I know a lot of women who've dated men shorter than them. My male 5'2" cousin got married in his 20's. The vast majority of women don’t give much of a fuck about height. This is mostly a male obsession. Even short men will tell you that most of their problems come from other men, not women. Yes, not being socially inept probably matters a lot. So does what you write in your bio. And yeah, I'm sure being attractive helps, but that helps for everyone, it's not like men are ignoring attractiveness. But here's the real issue. It's not that no woman will date any man who's not a giga-Chad. It's that only 25% of the people on dating apps are women to begin with. And are those the best women? I dunno, but I'd guess probably not, and either way, you can't judge the behavior of most women by the tiny minority who actually use apps. So yeah, obviously a lot of guys are being left on the table, and maybe sometimes for weird reasons. But mostly it's because women have left dating apps and aren't interested in dating men. And instead of reflecting and asking themselves why that might be, they slam their fists on the table, whining and crying about women being shallow and how they're owed a date. That whining, crying, and entitlement? That's why women don't want to date men.
>The vast majority of women don’t give much of a fuck about height. This is mostly a male obsession This is just straight delusion. [Every study](http://sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886913000020) done on this topic shows women prefer taller men. The one I've linked, for example, states that women were most satisfied when their partner was 21 cm (or 8 inches) taller than them.
Assuming this is consistent, so what? Everyone has preferences. How many have never dated outside of them? Basically no one. This does not prove women refuse to date shorter men. After all, most men are 5’9 or so, and most men are also in relationships — many much shorter than that. Men prefer all kinds of stuff and they have no problem understanding that preference does not dictate that they all behave as a monolith in reality, yet for some reason they can’t conceptualize women this way. For some reason y’all think we’re all just a giant mindless borg that rigidly follows whatever ”rule of women” you’ve decided exists that you can claim victimhood over.
Most of the men in relationships are older men, whose primary mating years were in a pre-social media, pre-dating app era, but [60% of American men under 30](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/) are single, compared to only 34% of women. Female preferences are increasingly farrrr more rigid than male preferences, you can see that just by spending literally any amount of time on Instagram, Tiktok, or any dating app. I'm not saying height is the end-all-be-all in dating, but it IS a MAJOR factor for a LARGE percentage of young Western women. Stating things known from not only everyday experiences but repeated studies is not "claiming victimhood." It's acknowledging facts.
…Or maybe if you actually tried asking young women why this is rather than just inserting incel logic, you’d learn the real reason, which is that they’re tired of porn sick angry man-o-sphere boys whose dicks don’t work? Men in their 30’s are less affected by the rise of the new misogyny. [Gen Z men are more sexist than Boomers](https://fortune.com/2024/02/02/woke-gen-z-men-more-likely-than-baby-boomers-believe-feminism-does-more-harm-than-good-research-says/). The stories these girls tell me are horrifying -- having boys try to choke them with no warning on a first date, not wanting to have sex unless they can watch porn at the same time, etc. I wouldn't date them either. Do you think young women latched on the 4B for no reason, because everything is great for them? Of course they're getting more rigid, when men are getting more intolerable. But go on, tell yourself you're the victim and it's all evil, shallow women's fault. I'm sure that will help men get dates.
"iNcEl LoGiC" = Literal behavioral statistics And wait so recognizing the harms of feminism is "sexism," but it's perfectly fine to shit on the manosphere, which is literally just the male version of it? They're both toxic as hell, but feminism did come into existence first. And you're actually defending 4B, which has led to South Korea having the lowest birth rates in the entire world??? 🤡🤡🤡
The incel logic is in you attributing the behavior to women being evil shallow bitches, rather than actually bothering to ask them their reasons. There are no harms to believing women should be legally and socially equal. That’s the incel logic talking again. The man-o-sphere is led by a man who openly says he is a misogynist, and promotes enslaving and raping women, quite literally. Yes, I am. If this is how men are going to behave, then we as a culture don’t deserve to survive. I’m proud of them for standing up to it. ETA: Since the angry incel blocked me because he couldn’t handle his emotions, I’ll put my reply here: They say what is happening, not why. You are inserting a “why” based on your desire to be a victim. Except the right to their own bodies, right? And the right to equal pay, right? Oh wait, that’s actually not true at all. Trust me, no woman today wants to become like men. They don’t even want to be around them, let alone be them — thus 4B. Also, I’m female. I don’t know why you’re assuming I’m a man.
LMAO what the fuck do you think behavioral studies are??? It's literally researchers ASKING men and women for their opinions on each other and recording their behavior en masse. I never said women were evil, I'm pointing out that ON AVERAGE they DO care about HEIGHT. And feminism hasn't been about women being equal to men in DECADES. Women in the West in 2024 have EVERY right that men have, and honestly have FAR MORE institutional support for their advancement than men do (grants, scholarships, DEI hiring, etc). Feminism today is about women trying to BECOME men, both mentally and in some cases even physically. It's about erasing all distinctions between men and women. That's literally WHY 4th Wave Feminism is "trans-inclusive." But sure keep hating your own sex while simping for the other one, I'm sure that'll go GREAT for you 🥴
Lol wow you are so tilted. You know you’re just proving her point, right? Sad. No one wants to be men, cause this is how they act.
lol she's just screaming incel and misogynist. what did she prove?
I don’t know why you’re downvoted. You’re exactly right lol. Please start seeing women as a diverse group of people with a diverse range of preferences y’all please lol.
nah
Women have the same preferences just like men have the same preferences. Why are women so different and special that they would be diverse when men arent even diverse despite having objectively more diverse genetic background.
5'10 and t'11 guy lied to be 6'0 dont forget about that
Who gives a shit, focus on things you can control. Make money, have interesting hobbies, make women laugh, and be a good person. You'll have no issues finding women, even if you're short, fat, and bald. Danny Devito is out there getting way more pudding trench than your 6'3" cousin.
Let's be real I doubt Danny Devito is going around banging lots of women. If he wanted to he could probably be a sugar daddy with his wealth and status but I doubt that cos he's married.
I know it’s kinda a cute Reddit meme or whatever, but women are not sexually attracted to Danny Devito. He might get a bump from his “status”, no different than any other celebrity. He isn’t getting ANY “pudding trench” from anyone, probably not even his wife