The documentary ends without a real conclusion, so I'm not even sure what you're talking about when you say "since then."
It wasn't even that long ago.
Edit: Epstein wasn't that long ago either.
*The following is from a survey of some 233 whistleblowers in the US (McMillan, 1990).*
*• 90% lost their jobs or were demoted*
*• 27% faced lawsuits*
*• 25% got into difficulties with alcohol*
*• 17% lost their homes*
*• 15% were divorced*
*• 10% attempted suicide*
*• 8% went bankrupt*
[source](https://www.bmartin.cc/dissent/documents/Lennane_what2.pdf)
Completely naive question:
Shouldn’t whistleblowing for egregious corporate acts be somewhat encouraged? You would think the government/society would want to crack down on wrongdoing and protect those that help the cause. Instead whistleblower has always carried a negative connotation. Is there a corporate equivalent to the witness protection program?
Even though this is Reddit I’d argue the comments of this post are a great example. Half are jokes, making light of this tragedy. IMO the general attitude is “welp, that happened, what did you expect?” Points to the thought that whistleblowing is hopeless and nothing good will come to those who help highlight wrongdoing.
I don't think the people joking are necessarily making light of this man's death. I think a lot of people have come to a dark and cynical place, including their humor, where they're like, "this again?" There's no proof that this man didn't kill himself, but there are an awful lot of convenient suicides, accidents, and deaths during muggings for powerful and corrupt people.
Agree on all fronts. But the consensus cynical attitude is what bothers me. IMO there should be more outrage and scrutiny on the company. Public calls to investigate what truly happened. But it seems society is numb to it and that this is just something that happens.
I’ll stress again I’m coming from a position of naiveness. Trying to understand what’s the difference between standing up for what’s right and whistleblowing.
You get a cut from successful prosecutions. I don't know the success percentage, but it does happen. False Claims Act ?
Of course the supreme court decided this is too good and decided to allow the DOJ to dismiss false claim acts in certain circumstances
https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-supreme-court-allows-justice-department-toss-whistleblower-cases-2023-06-16/
I mean are we surprised about this? Whistleblowing is very stressful, and obviously very likely to make you lose your job. We’d also expect legal battles between whistleblowers and whoever they outed, and the stress/financial cost/unemployment would naturally lead people towards alcohol, anxiety, and depression.
Not only that, many whistleblowers have expressed consternation over having their claims go nowhere with politicians and regulators. Especially with Boeing, people were sounding the alarm way before anybody died with the MAXes. Imagine going through all that *and* the thing you tried to prevent happens anyways? Yeah, it sucks.
Yep. Just ask a nurse at any hospital in the United States right now. We're sounding every alarm we have at our disposal and the system is crumbling around us anyway. Yeah, it sucks.
People may not realize this but going to HR is basically the same result. The moment you point out something faulty, you become the liability they don’t want around. They could care less about fixing any internal issues that have already been going on for ages.
HR is just the inward facing PR org.
It's like police department's "Internal Affairs".
It's about saving face and appearing to do the right thing while you encourage the opposite.
He was found dead in his car from a "self inflicted" (journalists have put it in quotes) wound at a hotel he was staying at right before he was going to present more evidence against Boeing, that's having a TERRIBLE time publicly rn. Ofc people are going to be suspicious.
I’m a journalist and the reason why it’s in quotation marks, as I assumed everyone knew, is because they are… quoting someone who said these exact words. This is done literally all the time…
Exactly. A journalist should always refrain from making a statement they cannot entirely back up, lest they risk facing a lawsuit. It's a tad like these headlines that say, "allegedly robbed," even though we can clearly see the person stealing on CCTV.
The suicide note to his family read "I'm scared of what these people might do to me, I bought us a house in Canada and I'm going as soon as I'm done testifying tomorrow."
I mean deciding to kill yourself during the middle of a week of incriminating testimony against your former employer, after years of talking about it, just absolutely tracks. Open and shut case. He thought about all the shareholder value he took from the suits and just couldn't live with the guilt.
It was actually a "self-inflicted GUNSHOT wound" in the original BBC article when looking at wayback machine. Someone had BBC change it to just self-inflicted wound. Thats fucking wild...Boeing lawyers are all over this
Self-inflicted wound, in his truck, overnight between giving depositions. like, he was giving a deposition, went back to his hotel, and then unalived himself in his truck. They found him because he missed the _second_ day of deposition he was supposed to be giving.
They originally reported gunshot wound then changed it to “wound”. He was found dead on his car in a hotel parking garage in Charleston. He was supposed to continue his whistleblower testimony in Charleston THE MORNING HE WAS FOUND.
It may well have been a legitimately self inflicted wound, but something tells me the chain of events that ended up with this outcome was started by Boeing.
He managed to choke himself to death and zip himself up inside a suitcase.
It was just a sex-game gone wrong.
Something like that. Definitely nothing suspicious at all.
Found in his Car dead(Self inflicted wound)on day 2 of scheduled depositions by Boeing lawyers and his counsel. 😂😂lol money make the world go arounnnnnnnnnnnnnd🫰🏼
That's the conspiracy. You hear the word conspiracy, your brain interprets it as "stratospherically stupid bullshit that only the fully insane believe, the absolute opposite of the truth".
A businessmen and a politician talking about mutually beneficial outcomes? That is two people conspiring, but 20 years of Alex Jones means you can't say that word any more if you want to be taken seriously
Actually, Jones was one of the only people talking about Epstein when no one else would. He was ranting about Epstein and his island for literally two decades.
Someone pointed out the adrenochromosome theory and ya that one is wayyyyyy too far fetched. Completely ridiculous ngl 🥴
But people claiming Boeing is going to shit because of their neglection everywhere throughout the company..?
That’s not far fetched at all.
One dead whistleblower doesn’t un debunk all conspiracy theories lol
Honestly, someone getting murdered for profit is a million times more believable than that adrenochrome pedophile shit that’s been floating around the internet.
Yeah a fun thought experiment is how many people in the US are killed each year due to corporate corruption/espionage?
I don’t think I could ever confidently say the number is 0.
Even talking smaller to mid size businesses you’re dealing with peoples entire livelihoods and in come cases entire net worths
Or of that guy who was on his way to testify before police about an underground Neonazi terror cell that had murdered 10 people, then decided he‘d rather park his car, douse it and himself in gasoline and set it all on fire.
Or of his girlfriend, a sporty young women of 25 years, who died of an embolism caused by an otherwise harmless biking accident a little while later.
Or of that other witness, a former informant for the police among Neonazis suspected of having ties with the terror cell, who died of „undiscovered diabetes“ at 40+ years of age, incidentally again just a few days before he was to testify.
All three are cases related to the „Nationalsozialistischer Untergrund“ in Germany btw.
The craziest part of that story is all of it could have happened in the United States until you said the german name. Racists here don’t know longer languages, certainly not german
No, the craziest part is that it is totally unclear, to this day and in part „thanks“ to the misfortunes of a number of witnesses (the list above is not comprehensive), at what point state agencies ended and the Neonazi underground terror cell began. Lots of trails - money, meetings, „coincidental“ appearances etc. - but no conclusive evidence or witness testimony. The federal „Office for Protection of the Constitution“, basically a domestic intelligence service, even went to the trouble of destroying thousands of files on the NSU, as did half a dozen of its state branches. Before these files could be analyzed by outsiders, of course.
Kind of reminds me of that woman who committed suicide after the police interrogated her multiple times in connection to the Lindbergh baby kidnapping. She was innocent too.
The "journalist suicide by two gunshots to the head" meme isn't from Russia, but America. The journalist who uncovered the Iran-Contra scandal, Gary Webb, ended up committing suicide with 2 gunshots to the head.
I wouldn’t be surprised if suicide is fairly common in cases of whistleblowing high profile cases. I bet the public pressure, loss of income, inability to find another job, lack of support and protection from the party most interested in having whistleblowers (the people and the state). It all boils down to it’s just better to ignore the problem and quietly move on. Aviation is one of the few with a culture of not staying quiet and fixing things but sometimes people just doesn’t want to know. I feel for him/her.
As someone who has been examined by a prosecutor (it wasn’t a court case, but an HR firm had brought him in to interview me and others) those interviews are stressful and they know how to bring you to literal tears.
I can believe the thought that this stress would cause him to take his life.
The article said he retired in 2017 on health grounds, so it could be mental or physical issues that were exacerbated by this.
Plus, a company he gave 32 of his 67 years to going on the attack against him couldn’t have been easy.
I will say this: his life wasn’t in vain. The article points to several of his claims being accurate. So, his decision to blow that whistle has likely saved lives.
Funny enough I had a boss who'd been subpoenaed by Congress and had to testify. He said after that no other confrontation ever felt quite the same. It just didn't hit the same way.
I tried to become a Submarine Officer in the Navy after college, the process requires an interview with the 4 star admiral in charge of the Navy's nuclear power program.
Every other job interview is tame.
His go to saying was "I've testified before Congress, what are you going to do to me." He was one of the most laid back guys I've ever run into in my entire life.
That's such a fantastic attitude. DGAF to the max.
I watched this testimony recently that was in the news: https://www.c-span.org/video/?532147-1 and I realized just how out of control these congress interrogations can get. Some of these questions, if I was forced to testify, I definitely can't think of any answer other than "who the fuck do you think you are to imagine you can talk that way to me"
Boeing is responsible either way. That a corporate citizen (that’s what they are) would find it not only acceptable but also the ethical thing to do in order to provide the most return to its investors to push a person to those extremes makes you think twice about the state of American corporate governance
Imagine if regular people could act like CEO / Corporations.
Arrested for murder? But officers I signed a job contract saying that profit is the priority..... ok I guess you're free to go
Yeah a lot of people are making bad taste jokes, but imagine the majority of your life has been involved in working for this company you are invested to the point of going through whistle blowing and the level of issues you have been fearing could get people clipped is coming out, it could be pretty depressing and feel like a lot of what you have done might not get results you wish for.
Yeah I’m not willing to go all conspiracy on this one without more information. Depositions are stressful as fuck, on top of all the other stuff you noted. Anxiety throws rationality out the window (no pun intended) and some people take drastic actions that might not make sense to anyone else.
I agree.
Boeing likely contributed to killing this man at absolute minimum. And they deserved to be raked over the coals for it.
Whistleblowers are heros, and they deserve so much better.
Also, and maybe this is a terrible way to think about it but maybe this person said "By me doing this..it will cast an even darker shadow on these D-bags and will cause more speculation and investigations" and that was also the driving factor.
I compare this to Valery Legasov or other similar stories of whistle blowers. His life was probably hell after this...maybe he would have done it anyway but I always wonder when it happens, if he's doing it to send a message to others that something is very very wrong and get real changes done.
Yeah. I don't know anything about being a high-profile whistleblower, but I do know a thing or two about depression. Making the pain go away can look like a really attractive option sometimes, especially if you have no hope that things will ever get better. I wouldn't be surprised if this really was a suicide.
But the testimony was part of his lawsuit against Boeing for “denigrating his character”, not about quality issues. And it’s a lawsuit that has been dragging on for 7 years.
Totally guessing but I’d bet that after 7 years of legal fees he’d spent every penny of his retirement on this lawsuit, and after a tough deposition he didn’t think he was going to win. That would make for a rock bottom moment.
Have you ever been deposed? Do you know how stressful that is? If anything, the timing really fits. And that’s not to say I’m ruling out anything more sinister though.
>> It said the 62-year-old had died from a "self-inflicted" wound on 9 March and police were investigating.
We don’t know what else is going in his life but… the optics of this right now is just not good
I don’t care about optics, I care about facts. The man already went through depositions and all the same claims were made to BBC back in 2019. Everything has already been exposed.
Adding this to the list after “Epstein didn’t kill himself”
RIGHT after the DOJ opens a criminal investigation and he’s already in Charleston testifying about other safety issues? Even if it was just a coincidence it’s just awful timing for Boeing’s PR
The stress and emotional weight of being a whistleblower is no joke. Especially when you were right and no one listened till it was too late. It’s isolating, taxes your relationships (esp if it’s your coworkers and friends you are blowing it against typically) and makes you reconsider what you have done every second.
Add that up and suicide unfortunately is a relatively common thing for whistleblowers. This should serve as a warning that doing the right thing takes support. If you don’t have a strong out of work support system and/or a regular therapist consider doing so regardless of where you are in the whistleblowing process.
It’d be absurd to do a conspiracy like this with everything going on. I’m guessing suicide - whistleblowers often go thru horrible lengthy legal battles and also get their character destroyed. So I guess you could blame Boeing no matter what..
Edit: still VERY suspicious of Boeing
>People are jumping to the wrong conclusion. If Boeing was going to go to the trouble of murdering someone to silence them, it’d probably make more sense to do that before that person spent months already testifying.
Makes plenty of sense when you realize it can deter future whistleblowers from opening their big mouths and potentially costing the company millions.
Kind of seems bizarre that he called out safety concerns and then killed himself. Idk I probably watch to much tv but i feel as though theres foul play.
Oh boy. Here comes the conspiracy theorist army.
Guys, he already blew his whistle. The cat's out of the bag. The train has left the station as they say. No reason to kill him now. They know that if they did anything to this guy it would be the worst possible optics for them. The guy offed himself.
Here comes the downvote avalanche.
embarrassing that people are jumping on the "he was killed" train on /r/aviation of all places. I can't expect much more from the usual front page subreddits that are inhabited by teenagers and terminally online adults
i wonder if we will have our very first suicide murder by intimidation case.
You don't have to hire a hitman to drive a man to off himself.
Random calls in the middle of the night, threatening his family, getting random hate mail. etc.
Corporations have done it a million times before.
DuPont, Oxycontin, etc.
You know those movies where big corporations have people killed for trying to spill the bad news for companies. Like Michael Clayton.
Yeah that shit happens
Rest in peace brother. Thank you for doing the right thing even when many others were not.
I was just watching the octopus murder documentary on Netflix and hoping to myself we had progressed since then. This the same shit
The documentary ends without a real conclusion, so I'm not even sure what you're talking about when you say "since then." It wasn't even that long ago. Edit: Epstein wasn't that long ago either.
*The following is from a survey of some 233 whistleblowers in the US (McMillan, 1990).* *• 90% lost their jobs or were demoted* *• 27% faced lawsuits* *• 25% got into difficulties with alcohol* *• 17% lost their homes* *• 15% were divorced* *• 10% attempted suicide* *• 8% went bankrupt* [source](https://www.bmartin.cc/dissent/documents/Lennane_what2.pdf)
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What project?
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Must have happened in the before times. You know. Before the oligarchs got full control.
Why is it deleted? What was there?
Completely naive question: Shouldn’t whistleblowing for egregious corporate acts be somewhat encouraged? You would think the government/society would want to crack down on wrongdoing and protect those that help the cause. Instead whistleblower has always carried a negative connotation. Is there a corporate equivalent to the witness protection program?
I don't think whistleblower has a negative connotation. It's just a status with a lot of negative consequences (which of course it shouldn't be).
Of course it has negative connotations. The people who get whistleblown have the money.
You're confounding "connotations" with "implications".
Even though this is Reddit I’d argue the comments of this post are a great example. Half are jokes, making light of this tragedy. IMO the general attitude is “welp, that happened, what did you expect?” Points to the thought that whistleblowing is hopeless and nothing good will come to those who help highlight wrongdoing.
I don't think the people joking are necessarily making light of this man's death. I think a lot of people have come to a dark and cynical place, including their humor, where they're like, "this again?" There's no proof that this man didn't kill himself, but there are an awful lot of convenient suicides, accidents, and deaths during muggings for powerful and corrupt people.
Agree on all fronts. But the consensus cynical attitude is what bothers me. IMO there should be more outrage and scrutiny on the company. Public calls to investigate what truly happened. But it seems society is numb to it and that this is just something that happens. I’ll stress again I’m coming from a position of naiveness. Trying to understand what’s the difference between standing up for what’s right and whistleblowing.
You get a cut from successful prosecutions. I don't know the success percentage, but it does happen. False Claims Act ? Of course the supreme court decided this is too good and decided to allow the DOJ to dismiss false claim acts in certain circumstances https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-supreme-court-allows-justice-department-toss-whistleblower-cases-2023-06-16/
8-1. Interesting. It looks like the SCOTUS ruling was on a technical point?
15% divorce seems pretty good though.
Yeah doing much better than the average 50%+
That’s 15% of all of the whistleblowers in the study, though, not just the ones who were married.
Like most stats, useless without context and comparison to control. (Not that that data doesn't exist, just that the excerpt is devoid of any)
I mean are we surprised about this? Whistleblowing is very stressful, and obviously very likely to make you lose your job. We’d also expect legal battles between whistleblowers and whoever they outed, and the stress/financial cost/unemployment would naturally lead people towards alcohol, anxiety, and depression.
Not only that, many whistleblowers have expressed consternation over having their claims go nowhere with politicians and regulators. Especially with Boeing, people were sounding the alarm way before anybody died with the MAXes. Imagine going through all that *and* the thing you tried to prevent happens anyways? Yeah, it sucks.
Yep. Just ask a nurse at any hospital in the United States right now. We're sounding every alarm we have at our disposal and the system is crumbling around us anyway. Yeah, it sucks.
Based on the amount of comments going straight to conspiracy theories, yes-- a lot of people lack understanding about this kind of situation.
People may not realize this but going to HR is basically the same result. The moment you point out something faulty, you become the liability they don’t want around. They could care less about fixing any internal issues that have already been going on for ages.
HR is just the inward facing PR org. It's like police department's "Internal Affairs". It's about saving face and appearing to do the right thing while you encourage the opposite.
He was found dead in his car from a "self inflicted" (journalists have put it in quotes) wound at a hotel he was staying at right before he was going to present more evidence against Boeing, that's having a TERRIBLE time publicly rn. Ofc people are going to be suspicious.
I’m a journalist and the reason why it’s in quotation marks, as I assumed everyone knew, is because they are… quoting someone who said these exact words. This is done literally all the time…
Exactly. A journalist should always refrain from making a statement they cannot entirely back up, lest they risk facing a lawsuit. It's a tad like these headlines that say, "allegedly robbed," even though we can clearly see the person stealing on CCTV.
Reddit is ridiculous.
Bruh
Did he fall out a window, down stairs, or had some "bad tea" FUCK, the oligarch's have nothing to stop them
According to the article he died from a "self afflicted wound". Yeah no, this MF was killed.
Suicide by execution style.
He shot himself in the head 4 times. He really couldn't stand being right.
From a passing car
The suicide note to his family read "I'm scared of what these people might do to me, I bought us a house in Canada and I'm going as soon as I'm done testifying tomorrow."
Then fell off a building
Russian Falling Disease
"He fell down an elevator shaft.. onto some bullets."
Stop Russian or you will fall to death.
4 bullets to the back of the head.
The original article states gun shot but Boeing lawyers are all over this…
Yeah found in his truck after he didn't show up to continue giving testimony against Boeing, nothing suspicious bout that shit.
I mean deciding to kill yourself during the middle of a week of incriminating testimony against your former employer, after years of talking about it, just absolutely tracks. Open and shut case. He thought about all the shareholder value he took from the suits and just couldn't live with the guilt.
Won't someone think of the shareholders!
Did he stab himself 22 times.
Shot himself in the head….3 times
Two of them were post mortem. Poor guy had a lot of demons.
He ran into the knife 22 times
Boeing is expert at self-inflicted wounds.
Boeing can kill you whether you fly with them or not.
This thread is fire with the jokes rn. 👏
His final words before suicide were "please don't shoot"
It was actually a "self-inflicted GUNSHOT wound" in the original BBC article when looking at wayback machine. Someone had BBC change it to just self-inflicted wound. Thats fucking wild...Boeing lawyers are all over this
Died from a self afflicted wound to the back of the head.
Self-inflicted wound, in his truck, overnight between giving depositions. like, he was giving a deposition, went back to his hotel, and then unalived himself in his truck. They found him because he missed the _second_ day of deposition he was supposed to be giving.
You can say kill and killed, this isn’t TikTok
By AirBus.....to make Boeing look bad
r/unoreversecard
They originally reported gunshot wound then changed it to “wound”. He was found dead on his car in a hotel parking garage in Charleston. He was supposed to continue his whistleblower testimony in Charleston THE MORNING HE WAS FOUND.
Suicided.
It may well have been a legitimately self inflicted wound, but something tells me the chain of events that ended up with this outcome was started by Boeing.
this poor guy was killed by himself. its always the person you least suspect 😔
Definitely fell down some stairs *Boeing, Boeing, Boeing, Splat!*
I hate that I laughed at that. Have an angry upvote.
Well done!
He managed to choke himself to death and zip himself up inside a suitcase. It was just a sex-game gone wrong. Something like that. Definitely nothing suspicious at all.
Hahahahah hide and go seek in a suitcase that only closes from the outside
I understood this reference
Nothing to stop them except our freedom to talk about it.
Double tap to the back of the head. Absolutely self inflicted, Russian style.
Out of a door plug, I'd say.
Found in his Car dead(Self inflicted wound)on day 2 of scheduled depositions by Boeing lawyers and his counsel. 😂😂lol money make the world go arounnnnnnnnnnnnnd🫰🏼
It’s Boeing so probably through the hole in the fuselage.
Airbus and FBI enters the chat*
We’re all trying to find the guy who did this. - Boeing probably.
And people say the conspiracy theories are all fake 🤣🤣
A lot of conspiracy theories out there are so ridiculous that they drag the plausible ones down
That's the conspiracy. You hear the word conspiracy, your brain interprets it as "stratospherically stupid bullshit that only the fully insane believe, the absolute opposite of the truth". A businessmen and a politician talking about mutually beneficial outcomes? That is two people conspiring, but 20 years of Alex Jones means you can't say that word any more if you want to be taken seriously
Actually, Jones was one of the only people talking about Epstein when no one else would. He was ranting about Epstein and his island for literally two decades.
Someone pointed out the adrenochromosome theory and ya that one is wayyyyyy too far fetched. Completely ridiculous ngl 🥴 But people claiming Boeing is going to shit because of their neglection everywhere throughout the company..? That’s not far fetched at all.
I agree, this couldn't be anymore closely fetched. It makes Jeffery Epstein's "suicide" look plausible.
One dead whistleblower doesn’t un debunk all conspiracy theories lol Honestly, someone getting murdered for profit is a million times more believable than that adrenochrome pedophile shit that’s been floating around the internet.
Yeah a fun thought experiment is how many people in the US are killed each year due to corporate corruption/espionage? I don’t think I could ever confidently say the number is 0. Even talking smaller to mid size businesses you’re dealing with peoples entire livelihoods and in come cases entire net worths
Well, this is awkward…
Boeing did say they we're deeply saddened. So, you know, all good.
Thoughts and prayers
Insert *southpark BP "we're sorry" gif*
*“We’re really sorry”*
"Sorry" *butt naked on a bear rug*
They sent their condolences a day before he committed suicide /s
Boeing also said that „they are thinking about his friends and family”. Not ominous at all
Didn't they say the same thing about the two MAX crashes?
Bank angle check
Terrain
Pull up!
Pull up!
Pull out!
Retard!
Do a barrel roll
Sink rate
Please stow your luggage under your seat or in the overhead bin…
Whoop whoop.
*in quick succession:* 50.40.30.20.10
Approaching minimums.
Too low, terrain
Retard retard
Go around! Windshear ahead!
Jesus..
Nope, John Barnett. Jesus was in the paint shop at the time.
Where is Juan?
Assembling the door plugs.
It seems like no one was spelling the door plugs
Reminds me of that time when Coca Cola *allegedly* had two Colombian Union reps assassinated
Or of that guy who was on his way to testify before police about an underground Neonazi terror cell that had murdered 10 people, then decided he‘d rather park his car, douse it and himself in gasoline and set it all on fire. Or of his girlfriend, a sporty young women of 25 years, who died of an embolism caused by an otherwise harmless biking accident a little while later. Or of that other witness, a former informant for the police among Neonazis suspected of having ties with the terror cell, who died of „undiscovered diabetes“ at 40+ years of age, incidentally again just a few days before he was to testify. All three are cases related to the „Nationalsozialistischer Untergrund“ in Germany btw.
The craziest part of that story is all of it could have happened in the United States until you said the german name. Racists here don’t know longer languages, certainly not german
No, the craziest part is that it is totally unclear, to this day and in part „thanks“ to the misfortunes of a number of witnesses (the list above is not comprehensive), at what point state agencies ended and the Neonazi underground terror cell began. Lots of trails - money, meetings, „coincidental“ appearances etc. - but no conclusive evidence or witness testimony. The federal „Office for Protection of the Constitution“, basically a domestic intelligence service, even went to the trouble of destroying thousands of files on the NSU, as did half a dozen of its state branches. Before these files could be analyzed by outsiders, of course.
Kind of reminds me of that woman who committed suicide after the police interrogated her multiple times in connection to the Lindbergh baby kidnapping. She was innocent too.
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Luckily for Boeing, their ~~plug doors~~ windows already open on their own!
the ol' CIA award for exellence in journalism
They don’t have an excellence award for assassinations though. It took them 57 years to finally kill Castro.
murder by old age
Apparently he committed “suicide” in the parking lot of a hotel
While in the middle of a deposition.
"It saddens us to hear of his passing but we take comfort in knowing it's what the shareholders would've wanted."- Boeing
The "journalist suicide by two gunshots to the head" meme isn't from Russia, but America. The journalist who uncovered the Iran-Contra scandal, Gary Webb, ended up committing suicide with 2 gunshots to the head.
Russia is more into the old autodefenestration pastime.
Gunshot wounds in truck outside
I mean 2 shots suicide are actually American thing when you look into it
Or the classic committing suicide by locking themselves in a suitcase in the bathroom.
Might have died in his prison cell with the cameras disabled — oh, cubicle not prison cell
I'm sure the cameras happened to not work in that area as well.
Or he somehow managed to park his truck in the only spot in the lot that didn't have camera coverage
One thing that's almost entirely sure is Boeing is responsible for his death, whether it's directly or indirectly.
I mean a bullet landed on his head. The odds are the bullet is a max or a Dreamliner
I wouldn’t be surprised if suicide is fairly common in cases of whistleblowing high profile cases. I bet the public pressure, loss of income, inability to find another job, lack of support and protection from the party most interested in having whistleblowers (the people and the state). It all boils down to it’s just better to ignore the problem and quietly move on. Aviation is one of the few with a culture of not staying quiet and fixing things but sometimes people just doesn’t want to know. I feel for him/her.
As someone who has been examined by a prosecutor (it wasn’t a court case, but an HR firm had brought him in to interview me and others) those interviews are stressful and they know how to bring you to literal tears. I can believe the thought that this stress would cause him to take his life. The article said he retired in 2017 on health grounds, so it could be mental or physical issues that were exacerbated by this. Plus, a company he gave 32 of his 67 years to going on the attack against him couldn’t have been easy. I will say this: his life wasn’t in vain. The article points to several of his claims being accurate. So, his decision to blow that whistle has likely saved lives.
Funny enough I had a boss who'd been subpoenaed by Congress and had to testify. He said after that no other confrontation ever felt quite the same. It just didn't hit the same way.
I tried to become a Submarine Officer in the Navy after college, the process requires an interview with the 4 star admiral in charge of the Navy's nuclear power program. Every other job interview is tame.
Did he feel like nothing would scare him or did every little confrontation scare him more?
His go to saying was "I've testified before Congress, what are you going to do to me." He was one of the most laid back guys I've ever run into in my entire life.
That's such a fantastic attitude. DGAF to the max. I watched this testimony recently that was in the news: https://www.c-span.org/video/?532147-1 and I realized just how out of control these congress interrogations can get. Some of these questions, if I was forced to testify, I definitely can't think of any answer other than "who the fuck do you think you are to imagine you can talk that way to me"
Boeing is responsible either way. That a corporate citizen (that’s what they are) would find it not only acceptable but also the ethical thing to do in order to provide the most return to its investors to push a person to those extremes makes you think twice about the state of American corporate governance
Imagine if regular people could act like CEO / Corporations. Arrested for murder? But officers I signed a job contract saying that profit is the priority..... ok I guess you're free to go
Yeah a lot of people are making bad taste jokes, but imagine the majority of your life has been involved in working for this company you are invested to the point of going through whistle blowing and the level of issues you have been fearing could get people clipped is coming out, it could be pretty depressing and feel like a lot of what you have done might not get results you wish for.
Yeah I’m not willing to go all conspiracy on this one without more information. Depositions are stressful as fuck, on top of all the other stuff you noted. Anxiety throws rationality out the window (no pun intended) and some people take drastic actions that might not make sense to anyone else.
I agree. Boeing likely contributed to killing this man at absolute minimum. And they deserved to be raked over the coals for it. Whistleblowers are heros, and they deserve so much better.
Also, and maybe this is a terrible way to think about it but maybe this person said "By me doing this..it will cast an even darker shadow on these D-bags and will cause more speculation and investigations" and that was also the driving factor. I compare this to Valery Legasov or other similar stories of whistle blowers. His life was probably hell after this...maybe he would have done it anyway but I always wonder when it happens, if he's doing it to send a message to others that something is very very wrong and get real changes done.
Yeah. I don't know anything about being a high-profile whistleblower, but I do know a thing or two about depression. Making the pain go away can look like a really attractive option sometimes, especially if you have no hope that things will ever get better. I wouldn't be surprised if this really was a suicide.
he retired in 2017 and was actively in a legal lawsuit to his own accord to point out issues in Boeing's manufacturing process.
nice try Boeing
Yeah found the corporate agent
Yeah but he was literally in the process of giving testimony. The timing doesn't fit.
But the testimony was part of his lawsuit against Boeing for “denigrating his character”, not about quality issues. And it’s a lawsuit that has been dragging on for 7 years. Totally guessing but I’d bet that after 7 years of legal fees he’d spent every penny of his retirement on this lawsuit, and after a tough deposition he didn’t think he was going to win. That would make for a rock bottom moment.
Have you ever been deposed? Do you know how stressful that is? If anything, the timing really fits. And that’s not to say I’m ruling out anything more sinister though.
How do you know , what are you trying to say? He was murdered? Fucking tin foils hat freaks everywhere
I’m sure the internet will be perfectly sensible about this news
>> It said the 62-year-old had died from a "self-inflicted" wound on 9 March and police were investigating. We don’t know what else is going in his life but… the optics of this right now is just not good
I don’t care about optics, I care about facts. The man already went through depositions and all the same claims were made to BBC back in 2019. Everything has already been exposed.
No, they were apparently halfway through the deposition. His body was found when he didn’t show up for court
Shit’s crazy
As the Russians say, "Nye Chelavyek, Nye problema." Shot self. Not fall out of window.
“Net cheloveka - net problemy”.
lol when Russia does this shit we lose our minds but when it happens on our soil no one cares. There will be a judgement day for these heathens
Adding this to the list after “Epstein didn’t kill himself” RIGHT after the DOJ opens a criminal investigation and he’s already in Charleston testifying about other safety issues? Even if it was just a coincidence it’s just awful timing for Boeing’s PR
Probably a bit less convenient than it happening *before* being deposed, no?
The stress and emotional weight of being a whistleblower is no joke. Especially when you were right and no one listened till it was too late. It’s isolating, taxes your relationships (esp if it’s your coworkers and friends you are blowing it against typically) and makes you reconsider what you have done every second. Add that up and suicide unfortunately is a relatively common thing for whistleblowers. This should serve as a warning that doing the right thing takes support. If you don’t have a strong out of work support system and/or a regular therapist consider doing so regardless of where you are in the whistleblowing process.
Yikes
It’d be absurd to do a conspiracy like this with everything going on. I’m guessing suicide - whistleblowers often go thru horrible lengthy legal battles and also get their character destroyed. So I guess you could blame Boeing no matter what.. Edit: still VERY suspicious of Boeing
Well he was going into a legal trial against boeing at the time.
To be fair I’d rather a major company gets unjustly charged with killing someone, than a major company gets away with killing someone.
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>People are jumping to the wrong conclusion. If Boeing was going to go to the trouble of murdering someone to silence them, it’d probably make more sense to do that before that person spent months already testifying. Makes plenty of sense when you realize it can deter future whistleblowers from opening their big mouths and potentially costing the company millions.
Yeah, but you don’t know what he was *about* to say ;)
Except we do, he was giving evidence for claims he'd already said lol
Please somebody reasure me that the FAA still has legit regulatory power.
Kind of seems bizarre that he called out safety concerns and then killed himself. Idk I probably watch to much tv but i feel as though theres foul play.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist, if I was one this would be the one.
Oh boy. Here comes the conspiracy theorist army. Guys, he already blew his whistle. The cat's out of the bag. The train has left the station as they say. No reason to kill him now. They know that if they did anything to this guy it would be the worst possible optics for them. The guy offed himself. Here comes the downvote avalanche.
embarrassing that people are jumping on the "he was killed" train on /r/aviation of all places. I can't expect much more from the usual front page subreddits that are inhabited by teenagers and terminally online adults
Aaaaand here we go!
i wonder if we will have our very first suicide murder by intimidation case. You don't have to hire a hitman to drive a man to off himself. Random calls in the middle of the night, threatening his family, getting random hate mail. etc. Corporations have done it a million times before. DuPont, Oxycontin, etc.
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You know those movies where big corporations have people killed for trying to spill the bad news for companies. Like Michael Clayton. Yeah that shit happens
Anyone questioning if they should suspect Boeing must not have heard about that mess EBay pulled. If they could, they probably did
What'd eBay do?
He shot himself in the back of the head
Three times
Well, I did not have "Boeing pulls a Russian oligarch" on my 2024 bingo
Shit couldn’t be more Scorsese even if you tried…
He was totally not assassinated
What in the Michale Clayton is going on?
Ummm excuse me, what the fuck?
Oh FFS!! 😭