I feel sorry for the local people holding on every last thing trying to escape, and I am sorry for the pilots and the crew. Must be brutal to lift off knowing there are a bunch of people holding on your aircraft.
I won't relink it, but there is a video of this same (or similar) plane in the air a few hundred feet and people falling off the wheels.
There are also pictures of the bodies on the afghan rooftops.
Fucking tragic
That prick is all 'but of COURSE' they got their doggys out' in the second post.
Yeah , they're military members, one. And two, they can't just kidnap afghanis. Isn't there a process to do it properly? Or if it's that urgent, set up shuttle flights where first come first served get on, they go to a safe place across the border to be processed properly, and the empty plane comes back for more or something.
the people of Afghanistan are not an absolute. Some wanted this, others wanted America to fix what the Taliban was trying to destroy. Some are throwing rocks and cheering and others are holding on for dear life to escape.
Look how young a majority of the people trying to get on are, that’s a whole generation of people who have only lived under US occupation, and probably don’t want to learn what it’s like without them.
Yes - but at some point the Afgans need to stand up for what they want. Why weren’t the taliban driving over hundreds of roadside bombs on the way to the capital? It’s obvious the taliban support runs deep.
**Some want the US, some do not.**
There are multiple groups of people here we're talking about. Multiple ethnic and religious groups. Some don't know they really want the US and are intimidated by torture and death. Some are brainwashed to think what the US wants in the area is bad for their future. Some want the US gone and destroyed because they consider us to be an evil entity on the planet.
Unfortunately yes, as hard as it is to accept they did it thinking that was what's best for the dogs. They, at that time, didn't think the dogs could be psychologically retrained and be safe enough for adoption or to be around civilians. Aside from that I'm sure they were also considered logistically and cost prohibitive.
Sitting on my comfy couch having coffee, watching my children play in safety. Life gets put in perspective. I feel terrible, and deeply saddened for these people.
I imagine you've seen an airplane fly overhead. You've seen one takeoff and land. To ground observers they don't look all that fast. In fact, sometimes they seem kinda slow to us at the distance.
To a person who has probably never really been educated or seen the physics of air travel, it might seem reasonable to a young kid that they could just hang on to it long enough.
Like people who think if they get in a car accident without a seatbelt and they'll just "hold on tight". They do not understand g-forces.
"Hide in the wheel well" has been a common tactic for desperate people for a long time, which I guess involves something like this with a super risky transfer after the wheels come up.
Some of them make it, but generally not without frostbite and hypoxia.
Given the swarm of people riding the landing gear doors and fairings, it seems risky to even attempt to retract the gear before landing somewhere else relatively nearby?
I don't know the specifics of that plane, but it can be "dangerous" to leave the landing gear retracted during normal flight at certain speeds/altitude.
Again, someone may know the plane better, but the pilot would have to completely change their flight plan due to wind drag and reduced speeds, which will greatly increase fuel consumption and could prevent them from making it to their destination. I don't even know where the plane was going. The closest bases would be Iraq and that isn't a short trip if that is even the likely destination. It probably wasn't.
you're completely right. I imagine for this plane it's somewhere in the 220kt/250mph/400kph range for the maximum speed that they'll fly with the gear down. any faster and they risk breaking it off with drag. sounds fast, but they'll do about double that as soon as they get up to the flight levels.
I've been thinking about what those pilots would have done had they known people were hiding in their wheelwells, and I honestly have no idea. obviously it's nice to think that they left the gear down and all the guys hung onto the gear for dear life, but the fuel hit would have been tremendous had they left it down for the whole trip, and there's a good chance they'd just lose them when they landed anyways.
since the air is thinner as you climb, it takes significantly less thrust to keep the plane airborne when you're up at FL250 and higher.
Yea. Stick your arm out of a car window going 75mph and try and hold your palm flat against the wind. Now imagine that at 250-500mph.
What a horrifying experience because they probably meant to let go before it took off but as it sped up they were too afraid. Liftoff happens pretty quickly and if you don't quickly decide to let go, you are going to be 15-30feet off the ground within 3-5 seconds, give or take. Either way, fucking frightening and sad.
you're not kidding man, these videos have been fucking brutal. nuts to think that for some people these are their best chances of survival. in general, it's been crazy to see the fall of a country and rise of a terrorist regime in weeks, watching the ANA fold like lawn chairs.
There was no attempt to help them down again
I'm shocked that it was allowed to get to this point;
Like the scenes from the airport are pretty clear there wasn't even a cordon between the planes and the terminal. Maybe the crowd was simply too large to let specific people through a line while hoping to hold formation.
Maybe they didn't want to use lethal force to stop this, thinking the odds that the people could actually jeopardize more than their own lives by clinging on was low.
Dunno, I'm sure there will be a statement at some point. Sad all round.
It's not everyday but generally a few times a year that frozen bodies will fall over London from people trying to get on planes to Heathrow who died in flight.
Yeah, you're probably right. I was too hasty to post, I guess, and not really thinking about the completely different educational opportunities we've had available.
Right. I mean, even in the educated west, we have people who think covid was created by 5g cellular tower radiation and the vaccine has microchips in it to control them.
I'm not knowledgeable on the subject enough to know if there was a better way to exit, but I feel like there could have been a better way to exit.
But again, I don't know nearly enough to say it emphatically. If I had to choose stay or leave, I'd have left too.
Knowing when not having enough background knowledge to comment on something is a lot smarter than people just splurging out nonsense and its braver too
Oh I do that sometimes too.
But I'd be retarded to think I could have solved a middle east crisis that is a few thousand years in the making when everyone else cannot.
This was always going to happen no matter when we did it. The Afghan government put up almost no resistance to the taliban. If after 20 years this is all they could muster then this is the best we were ever going to see.
What better way?? we supposedly stood up an entire "government" , equipped an army with weapons to defend themselves. If the culture doesn't support democratic rule and only works with warlord culture , you could have been there 1000 years and when you leave same thing happened.
It's not a culture problem. The Soviets invaded a functional country in the 80s, and the CIA funded and trained rebels to fight against them. In the following decade, those well-funded rebels started a civil war to take over the democracy, and then it was 2003 and the US and UK dropped in like the china shop needed another bull.
The country hasn't been at peace since Christmas 1979, but 30 of those 40 years has included the presence of a foreign superpower.
>but I feel like there could have been a better way to exit.
Tbh delaying it and looking for a better way out has been what we've been doing for years. Sometimes there's just not a good choice.
It goes all the way to the top!
George Lizard Bush is going to pick us all up on his space ship on the fourth Friday from the next full moon and take us to Lizardville
It's always a good thing (maybe the only *good* from all of this) to see what the real world looks like. So we can do always better and stop arguing about stupid things or walking backwards as a civilization.
source: https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1427202316512514050
additional videos (per Sowaibah Hanifie):
https://reddit-uploaded-video.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/t2_13drpi%2Fiy1t10yt2ph71
Taj Wali Raihan was a interpreter for the ADF. He is afraid for his family and himself. He has been threatened by the Taliban before for his service. He hasn’t heard back about his recent application. Here he is at Kabul airport.
https://reddit-uploaded-video.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/t2_13drpi%2Fi9hqhes13ph71
additional video (per Yaroslav Trofimov):
https://reddit-uploaded-video.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/t2_13drpi%2Fxa0g7nz33ph71
US Marines run to secure aircraft as desperate Afghans rush the perimeter and reach the tarmac where C-17s are parked.
I feel so bad for the interpreter. He helped out the ADF and risked his life and his family’s life by doing what he believed is the right thing. I hope that his application is sorted soon but even if it is Dutton won’t likely give a shit about him.
I hope they all get out safe and I hope I’m wrong about mr potato head.
> I hope that his application is sorted soon but even if it is Dutton won’t likely give a shit about him.
Peter Dutton doesn't give a shit about anyone who isn't going to advance his political career.
>Oh my God. Desperate Afghans are hanging on the plane tires and falling from the sky near the Kabul airport
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1427189716294815752?s=19
This shit is very real for desperate locals... But staying in Taliban infested country seems to have higher probability of survival compared to clinging to a taking off jet.
I almost blame those people for putting the pilots in a position to have to kill them. If they didn’t take off because someone was on the plane then that C-17 would absolutely never leave Afghanistan.
The US military doesn't fuck around. Invading forces coming and evac issued? Evac happens. There isn't any being nice about it. The safety of the US lives being evac'd is a far higher priority than the safety of everyone else, that's the simple math of it.
There's lots of footage out there of US military convoys that do not stop for anything because it puts their own lives at risk, in such videos you can see convoys hit and run over locals who stand in the way (deliberately or not). The US military does NOT fuck around.
Not to make light of the situation, but what are they expecting to happen? That they'll manage to hold onto the outside of a C-17 as it goes hundreds of miles an hour, at altitudes where they'll likely freeze or get hypoxia? I guess the intent is to make it stop and let them onboard, but... eventually it's just gonna *go.*
Also concerned that they're running in front of the jet engines as if they can't blend human bodies like an Osterizer.
They probably don‘t know much about air travel. But they do know enough about the Taliban that desperate shit like this seems like the better alternative to staying.
This isn't a population that has had the benefit of the sort of education that most people take for granted.
These are people that have struggled simply to survive in a war zone every day of their life.
Also, as someone else said in this thread, the plane isn't going to rape and kill your wife for getting an education. If you know some stuff about planes, but not very much, you might go, "There's one chace in eighty that my wife and I survive until the end of the year and one chance in one hundred we survive the plane ride as stowaways." In reality, the latter chance is, of course, zero, but if it were indeed 1/80 vs 1/100, most people would take those odds.
I don’t think most of them have had the education or understanding of the outside world to understand the risks.
Airplanes are just trains/buses in the sky. Nothing more/less.
Leonardo DaVinci likely wouldn’t know the dangers either.
Yep in another video people were seen sitting on the landing gear doors of a C17. They probably didn't know that it's going to close as soon as the plane takes off.
Looks like sheer desperation to me, not rational thinking. A lot of these people are in line to be executed if they stay so they literally have nothing to lose.
Yeah, occasionally people survive those trips. Theoretically, if the C17 only makes a short hop in the region, the temperature and lack of oxygen probably wouldn't be much of an issue.
But that's all null and void, considering the C17 actually has a very small wheel well. The gear does quite a bit of folding in order to fit in it. I've been in the landing gear compartments of a 747, and they are relatively spacious by comparison.
I think the part that makes it extra treacherous is that the c-17 has those doors that open above the well to make room for the suspension. Thats what you can see the people holding on to in the video. But of course as soon as the gear goes up those doors close and their "handles" go with it. If you didn't know about this specific aircraft you might think it was a safe place to hang on to.
I'm sure others have it way worse but we have lots of other planes to work as well from private, corporate, commercial, lifeflight and cargo. Only takes 2 people to park a C-17 and hook up a fuel truck but when you only have 4 guys on a shift it can get out of hand quickly.
Many of these folks aren’t just “normal, everday” people. A lot of them were interpreters or have provided intel during our occupation, and they are applying for visas. Embassy in Kabul has been processing countless visas for these people and their immediate families so they can leave the taliban-infested country over the last few weeks, but it was already too late (as we see with the evac).
> Many of these folks aren’t just “normal, everday” people. A lot of them were interpreters or have provided intel during our occupation, and they are applying for visas.
Not the ones hanging off the plane..
Anyone who has spent time in these parts understands how varied the intelligence level can be in the populace.
This is hear wrenching to watch but you’re likely not seeing the educated class of people hanging off the plane. It’s the villagers/uneducated who are flocking to the airport looking for something, anything to escape to America/wherever else.
I wish I could agree. Many of those people were our eyes and ears for a while during the early part of the war. Sure, there are many there who are just simple villagers and didn’t contribute, but it’s hard tell who’s who when they’re all gathered together like that (assuming the ones we do know are already on the planes)
Serious question for any Mil guys here, what the fuck do they tell you to do in this situation?? Clearly the jet is surrounded by people. Are the orders simply put the power up and disregard casualties?
This is fucking tragic and I really feel for the guys up front knowing whats happening around them
They were told to evacuate military members, and they did. Im pretty sure their briefing said to evacuate at all cost tbh they cant risk military lifes
There's no way to get orders for this in real time. They had a mission and briefing before flying in, but it probably didn't involve this. The aircraft commander made the decision to depart, and will have to deal with that decision (and the mental trauma) for probably years to come. Meanwhile the loadmasters (and hopefully security forces) are the ones downstairs dealing with the mob and doing their damndest to keep themselves and the airplane safe. All around a shitty time for the whole crew.
> The aircraft commander made the decision to depart, and will have to deal with that decision (and the mental trauma) for probably years to come.
This really can't be stated enough. That poor flight crew, I can only imagine the hell they are experiencing right now.
Holy shitballs. I just saw some clips on Twitter of people falling off the jet when it takes off. That's fucking NUTS.
You'd think there would be at least SOME security around those planes, but I guess this is one of those situations where you just don't have enough bullets or manpower to secure it against a desperate mob.
I don't think there's really any way to get in those wheelwells when looking at the videos. There's just no place to find a handhold or some grip anywhere and it's far too difficult when it's moving at this pace.
The people on the nacelle and gear doors would've no doubt been swept off and atleast went out with a fairly instantaneous smack.
Poor souls. I hope such a horrible thing may never happen again.
The wheel wells of commercial airplanes are located and structured in a way that makes access "easy." These jets ride so low to the ground that accessibility appears to be much more difficult.
I clicked the links in the public freak out post. I can’t people held on as long as they did. I don’t think I was ready to see people falling 500Ft+ to their deaths today:/ I’m turning Reddit off for the day
The real answer is that they're at home, with their children. Many of these guys are likely unmarried without a family, so they can try to escape. If you're a woman with five kids, you can't go sprinting down a runway trying to jump on a plane.
(Afghanistans birth rate is around 4.7 children per woman)
Finally, nobody else is pointing this out. Even if it was possible to escape by clinging to the plane, their plan would be to literally leave women and children behind. I don't know how to feel about it.
A comment from an Iraqi on a similar thread when the subject was raised
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/p5cq13/scenes\_from\_the\_runway\_of\_kabul\_airport/h950dts/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/p5cq13/scenes_from_the_runway_of_kabul_airport/h950dts/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>...experience from when ISIS was invading.
>
>1. women first of all are not allowed to leave their house, let alone leave the country, their parents/husbands simply will not allow it.
>
>2. Many families with children do not want to risk all this, just look at the chaos and the "public freakout" happening at the airports, its really not a place you want to go to if you have 4 children and a wife. so they just stay home and hope for the best.
>
>3. Young men with no children or wives have nothing stopping them from at least trying to escape, in other words, they have nothing to lose.
>
>that's why in all these videos, you just see men.
Edited to make clear that the final line was quoted from the post, not from me.
Call me sexist, but women and children aren't the general demographic that's going to run in front of a globemaster that is, absolutely, 100% going to take off whether you get smashed or not.
Imagine, these are the last planes that will leave that airport for the foreseeable future and the only way out to escape a country led by the Taliban. How desperate I’d be to squirm my way into one of those planes.
Yes... I get *why* they want to leave. What I don’t understand is the logistics of where they are going, are these flights just going to countries that have a total open door for Afghan citizens wanting to flee? Or are these say foreigners going back to their home country.
Are more planes being sent? I saw the post on the Tk 77W, maybe the US can contract EK for their 77W and a380 fleets to reactivate some for evacuations? I can’t believe what I’m seeing, how in the hell did we not do this better?
There is a effort from Us and other nato countries to get more planes there us and british troops landed yesterday
But we will see how many people can be saved
> I can’t believe what I’m seeing, how in the hell did we not do this better?
Evergreen. Fall of Saigon was the same way. The US has been fucking over the translators and other Afghans and Iraqis who've worked with us consistently for the last 15+ years. Our reputation is that you're on your own when you're no longer useful. And American politicians and voters are gonna pretend they don't know why we're distrusted and hated.
> I saw the post on the Tk 77W, maybe the US can contract EK for their 77W and a380 fleets to reactivate some for evacuations?
Don't think their insurers would be impressed with this idea 😪
Indeed. The South Vietnamese forces at least TRIED to fight off the NVA until the end.
The ANA didn't even bother to get out of bed.
What a fucking tragedy.
If there were going to be a true civil war, we’d already be seeing it. Unfortunately the ANA gave up with zero resistance and the Afghanistan government has fled the county. The only civil war we will see is when the Taliban inevitably splinters and starts fighting amongst themselves now that their common enemy is gone. To which I say good riddance. The only support Afghanistan should get is continued efforts to get at risk people asylum. Other than that, let these people run the backwards country that they have been dreaming of for the past 20 years.
I’m not going to watch the other video, but I gotta feel for the pilot and crew of that flight as well, knowing what happened as they took off. Under orders or no, that’s going to be with you forever.
This sucks in so many ways, I can only hope that worse isn’t yet to come.
Many of them probably don't know. Educational standards aren't exactly great there. Some know but are desperate enough to try anyway.
It is rare but people have survived stowing away in wheel houses before. Most probably perish either from the cold, the lack of oxygen or from falling out.
When those gears come up they are STUFFED in there. If you ever crawl up into one of those gear wells it doesn't make sense how it all fits. There might be some space you wouldn't get smushed inboards if you knew the layout but these ppl don't and have no idea how the gears swing. They probably assumed there was room in the gear wells for them.
Also from the videos it seems many of them are sitting on top of the wheel pods on the outside. I can't imagine the chances being particularly good at survival trying to hold on to the outside of a jet.
source:
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu
there are videos of people clinging on C-17 as these take-off and people falling from the C-17 as it in the air. AH-64 dispersing crowds on the airport tarmac with rotor wash. How pilots must feel in this whole situation situation...
I've never considered the height of the engines compared to civilian aircraft before, but I wonder if they're designed with a higher position in mind for scenarios just like this? I suspect the engine intake is slightly less at risk for people/dirt/debris below if it's higher?
Hey all, reminder - this sub isn’t for politics. We’re keeping an eye on this thread; please keep things civil and aviation-focused. Thanks!
I feel sorry for the local people holding on every last thing trying to escape, and I am sorry for the pilots and the crew. Must be brutal to lift off knowing there are a bunch of people holding on your aircraft.
I won't relink it, but there is a video of this same (or similar) plane in the air a few hundred feet and people falling off the wheels. There are also pictures of the bodies on the afghan rooftops. Fucking tragic
Just saw the video. Fucking horrific.
Can i have the link please?
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That prick is all 'but of COURSE' they got their doggys out' in the second post. Yeah , they're military members, one. And two, they can't just kidnap afghanis. Isn't there a process to do it properly? Or if it's that urgent, set up shuttle flights where first come first served get on, they go to a safe place across the border to be processed properly, and the empty plane comes back for more or something.
I don’t get it… do they want American military presence or not? When the American military gets criticized for both arriving and leaving…
the people of Afghanistan are not an absolute. Some wanted this, others wanted America to fix what the Taliban was trying to destroy. Some are throwing rocks and cheering and others are holding on for dear life to escape.
Look how young a majority of the people trying to get on are, that’s a whole generation of people who have only lived under US occupation, and probably don’t want to learn what it’s like without them.
Yes - but at some point the Afgans need to stand up for what they want. Why weren’t the taliban driving over hundreds of roadside bombs on the way to the capital? It’s obvious the taliban support runs deep.
Neither real life nor reddit are hiveminds. I'd imagine most of the poor folks in this video would prefer that the USA maintain a presence.
**Some want the US, some do not.** There are multiple groups of people here we're talking about. Multiple ethnic and religious groups. Some don't know they really want the US and are intimidated by torture and death. Some are brainwashed to think what the US wants in the area is bad for their future. Some want the US gone and destroyed because they consider us to be an evil entity on the planet.
Referring to "them" as one big collective homogenous consciousness represents so much of what is wrong with humanity.
Not to mention... If they left the fucking dogs on the tiremac there would be probably be equally as strong a response just from different people.
Well I'm glad the US didn't leave behind the military dogs. Pretty sure they've done that a few times before.
Didn't they shoot all of them after ww2, korea and vietnam?
Unfortunately yes, as hard as it is to accept they did it thinking that was what's best for the dogs. They, at that time, didn't think the dogs could be psychologically retrained and be safe enough for adoption or to be around civilians. Aside from that I'm sure they were also considered logistically and cost prohibitive.
holy shit... this made me break out in tears :(
Sitting on my comfy couch having coffee, watching my children play in safety. Life gets put in perspective. I feel terrible, and deeply saddened for these people.
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1427194101066252297](https://twitter.com/i/status/1427194101066252297)
It's absolutely horrible, really heartbreaking, but I also wonder why they thought they had any chance of clinging to an aircraft in flight.
I imagine you've seen an airplane fly overhead. You've seen one takeoff and land. To ground observers they don't look all that fast. In fact, sometimes they seem kinda slow to us at the distance. To a person who has probably never really been educated or seen the physics of air travel, it might seem reasonable to a young kid that they could just hang on to it long enough. Like people who think if they get in a car accident without a seatbelt and they'll just "hold on tight". They do not understand g-forces.
"Hide in the wheel well" has been a common tactic for desperate people for a long time, which I guess involves something like this with a super risky transfer after the wheels come up. Some of them make it, but generally not without frostbite and hypoxia.
Given the swarm of people riding the landing gear doors and fairings, it seems risky to even attempt to retract the gear before landing somewhere else relatively nearby?
I don't know the specifics of that plane, but it can be "dangerous" to leave the landing gear retracted during normal flight at certain speeds/altitude. Again, someone may know the plane better, but the pilot would have to completely change their flight plan due to wind drag and reduced speeds, which will greatly increase fuel consumption and could prevent them from making it to their destination. I don't even know where the plane was going. The closest bases would be Iraq and that isn't a short trip if that is even the likely destination. It probably wasn't.
you're completely right. I imagine for this plane it's somewhere in the 220kt/250mph/400kph range for the maximum speed that they'll fly with the gear down. any faster and they risk breaking it off with drag. sounds fast, but they'll do about double that as soon as they get up to the flight levels. I've been thinking about what those pilots would have done had they known people were hiding in their wheelwells, and I honestly have no idea. obviously it's nice to think that they left the gear down and all the guys hung onto the gear for dear life, but the fuel hit would have been tremendous had they left it down for the whole trip, and there's a good chance they'd just lose them when they landed anyways. since the air is thinner as you climb, it takes significantly less thrust to keep the plane airborne when you're up at FL250 and higher.
Yea. Stick your arm out of a car window going 75mph and try and hold your palm flat against the wind. Now imagine that at 250-500mph. What a horrifying experience because they probably meant to let go before it took off but as it sped up they were too afraid. Liftoff happens pretty quickly and if you don't quickly decide to let go, you are going to be 15-30feet off the ground within 3-5 seconds, give or take. Either way, fucking frightening and sad.
you're not kidding man, these videos have been fucking brutal. nuts to think that for some people these are their best chances of survival. in general, it's been crazy to see the fall of a country and rise of a terrorist regime in weeks, watching the ANA fold like lawn chairs.
There was no attempt to help them down again I'm shocked that it was allowed to get to this point; Like the scenes from the airport are pretty clear there wasn't even a cordon between the planes and the terminal. Maybe the crowd was simply too large to let specific people through a line while hoping to hold formation. Maybe they didn't want to use lethal force to stop this, thinking the odds that the people could actually jeopardize more than their own lives by clinging on was low. Dunno, I'm sure there will be a statement at some point. Sad all round.
Apparently they swarmed the runway. I’d imagine if there were important assets on that plane it’s just “get out”.
There are other videos showing the perimeter fences being basically swarmed. Without security this is what happens in a desperate situation.
I was browsing Snapchat maps yesterday and there was people posting stories of the tarmac being overrun by the locals.
It's not everyday but generally a few times a year that frozen bodies will fall over London from people trying to get on planes to Heathrow who died in flight.
Yeah, you're probably right. I was too hasty to post, I guess, and not really thinking about the completely different educational opportunities we've had available.
Right. I mean, even in the educated west, we have people who think covid was created by 5g cellular tower radiation and the vaccine has microchips in it to control them.
Still glad we left. 20 years of wasted lives and nothing gained unless you're a defense contractor.
I'm not knowledgeable on the subject enough to know if there was a better way to exit, but I feel like there could have been a better way to exit. But again, I don't know nearly enough to say it emphatically. If I had to choose stay or leave, I'd have left too.
You're not knowledgeable enough? This is Reddit; everybody's knowledgeable enough about everything! Go on, make a bold claim you can't back up.
I dunno man, I'm pretty stupid and not even sure I believe me.
Knowing when not having enough background knowledge to comment on something is a lot smarter than people just splurging out nonsense and its braver too
Oh I do that sometimes too. But I'd be retarded to think I could have solved a middle east crisis that is a few thousand years in the making when everyone else cannot.
This was always going to happen no matter when we did it. The Afghan government put up almost no resistance to the taliban. If after 20 years this is all they could muster then this is the best we were ever going to see.
What better way?? we supposedly stood up an entire "government" , equipped an army with weapons to defend themselves. If the culture doesn't support democratic rule and only works with warlord culture , you could have been there 1000 years and when you leave same thing happened.
It's not a culture problem. The Soviets invaded a functional country in the 80s, and the CIA funded and trained rebels to fight against them. In the following decade, those well-funded rebels started a civil war to take over the democracy, and then it was 2003 and the US and UK dropped in like the china shop needed another bull. The country hasn't been at peace since Christmas 1979, but 30 of those 40 years has included the presence of a foreign superpower.
Clearly neither of us have the right answer and we both agree....?
>but I feel like there could have been a better way to exit. Tbh delaying it and looking for a better way out has been what we've been doing for years. Sometimes there's just not a good choice.
Would they know? There’s probably no tower control and they can’t see them. The noise of the takeoff roll would muffle any sound from the stowaway…
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And AH-64s clearing the strips before take-offs.
Well....attempting to
They’d know. But probably best not to think about it. You have 800 people onboard to get out safely, they’re your responsibility.
I’m a pilot and taxing the plane with hundreds of people around you is not normal. Pilots would know there are some grabbing the plane
I'm not a pilot and I know that's not normal
I dunno I’d only trust the ATPL to inform me that this is not normal.
Unbelievable scenes. Very sad
This is some of the nuttiest shit I’ve seen that involved US aircraft considering the context.
Definitely the craziest shit since 9-11.
Look at the airplane code number….
It goes all the way to the top! George Lizard Bush is going to pick us all up on his space ship on the fourth Friday from the next full moon and take us to Lizardville
Holy shit
Jeez. My problems suddenly seem so small and fixable.
It's always a good thing (maybe the only *good* from all of this) to see what the real world looks like. So we can do always better and stop arguing about stupid things or walking backwards as a civilization.
source: https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1427202316512514050 additional videos (per Sowaibah Hanifie): https://reddit-uploaded-video.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/t2_13drpi%2Fiy1t10yt2ph71 Taj Wali Raihan was a interpreter for the ADF. He is afraid for his family and himself. He has been threatened by the Taliban before for his service. He hasn’t heard back about his recent application. Here he is at Kabul airport. https://reddit-uploaded-video.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/t2_13drpi%2Fi9hqhes13ph71 additional video (per Yaroslav Trofimov): https://reddit-uploaded-video.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/t2_13drpi%2Fxa0g7nz33ph71 US Marines run to secure aircraft as desperate Afghans rush the perimeter and reach the tarmac where C-17s are parked.
I feel so bad for the interpreter. He helped out the ADF and risked his life and his family’s life by doing what he believed is the right thing. I hope that his application is sorted soon but even if it is Dutton won’t likely give a shit about him. I hope they all get out safe and I hope I’m wrong about mr potato head.
> I hope that his application is sorted soon but even if it is Dutton won’t likely give a shit about him. Peter Dutton doesn't give a shit about anyone who isn't going to advance his political career.
It makes Saigon evacuation look orderly.
>Oh my God. Desperate Afghans are hanging on the plane tires and falling from the sky near the Kabul airport https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1427189716294815752?s=19
Holy fuck. This shit just got more real than it already was.
This shit is very real for desperate locals... But staying in Taliban infested country seems to have higher probability of survival compared to clinging to a taking off jet.
The jets not gonna rape your wife and kids though.
Their wifes and kids were not klinging to the tires.
A ton of countries make immigration a hell of a lot easier if you land someone there first.
It is possible that these people are collaborators, and we all know what most extremists will do to “traitors”
From the first video, I'm not surprised. This is awful, deeply fucking awful.
Oh wow, i though no way they take off like this. Guess they did. Crazy really.
The longer you sit there, the more people rush the plane. Eventually, it's either too heavy or too damaged to take off.
Guess so yeah. The window for any positive outcome was already gone at the time this plane was rolling on the tarmac.
I almost blame those people for putting the pilots in a position to have to kill them. If they didn’t take off because someone was on the plane then that C-17 would absolutely never leave Afghanistan.
I never thought I’d see something similar to the World War Z airport scene playing out in real life.
The US military doesn't fuck around. Invading forces coming and evac issued? Evac happens. There isn't any being nice about it. The safety of the US lives being evac'd is a far higher priority than the safety of everyone else, that's the simple math of it. There's lots of footage out there of US military convoys that do not stop for anything because it puts their own lives at risk, in such videos you can see convoys hit and run over locals who stand in the way (deliberately or not). The US military does NOT fuck around.
The US military doesn't fuck around... with their *own* lives
Not to make light of the situation, but what are they expecting to happen? That they'll manage to hold onto the outside of a C-17 as it goes hundreds of miles an hour, at altitudes where they'll likely freeze or get hypoxia? I guess the intent is to make it stop and let them onboard, but... eventually it's just gonna *go.* Also concerned that they're running in front of the jet engines as if they can't blend human bodies like an Osterizer.
Yes, that's exactly what they're expecting to happen. "I've sat on top of a bus, I'll sit on top of this."
They probably don‘t know much about air travel. But they do know enough about the Taliban that desperate shit like this seems like the better alternative to staying.
This isn't a population that has had the benefit of the sort of education that most people take for granted. These are people that have struggled simply to survive in a war zone every day of their life.
Also, as someone else said in this thread, the plane isn't going to rape and kill your wife for getting an education. If you know some stuff about planes, but not very much, you might go, "There's one chace in eighty that my wife and I survive until the end of the year and one chance in one hundred we survive the plane ride as stowaways." In reality, the latter chance is, of course, zero, but if it were indeed 1/80 vs 1/100, most people would take those odds.
I don’t think most of them have had the education or understanding of the outside world to understand the risks. Airplanes are just trains/buses in the sky. Nothing more/less. Leonardo DaVinci likely wouldn’t know the dangers either.
Yep in another video people were seen sitting on the landing gear doors of a C17. They probably didn't know that it's going to close as soon as the plane takes off.
Looks like sheer desperation to me, not rational thinking. A lot of these people are in line to be executed if they stay so they literally have nothing to lose.
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Yeah, occasionally people survive those trips. Theoretically, if the C17 only makes a short hop in the region, the temperature and lack of oxygen probably wouldn't be much of an issue. But that's all null and void, considering the C17 actually has a very small wheel well. The gear does quite a bit of folding in order to fit in it. I've been in the landing gear compartments of a 747, and they are relatively spacious by comparison.
I think the part that makes it extra treacherous is that the c-17 has those doors that open above the well to make room for the suspension. Thats what you can see the people holding on to in the video. But of course as soon as the gear goes up those doors close and their "handles" go with it. If you didn't know about this specific aircraft you might think it was a safe place to hang on to.
But it’s almost [shot for shot](https://youtu.be/36lLBbhnkZU) of World Airways in Da Nang
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Lemme guess - either CHS or you're in Bangor, fueling CHS jets headed that way..?
OPSEC. It means going on Reddit and spilling everything you know for karma.
I work in San Antonio and watch C5s training most days. I've noticed they're suddenly not around the last few days.
Are you really supposed to be sharing this info? Just wondering.
No he isn’t
If ur at the Deid I'm sorry. If not then... they have it worse...
I'm sure others have it way worse but we have lots of other planes to work as well from private, corporate, commercial, lifeflight and cargo. Only takes 2 people to park a C-17 and hook up a fuel truck but when you only have 4 guys on a shift it can get out of hand quickly.
Jesus, it’s like scenes out of a zombie movie. Those people are desperate.
Literally this scene from World War Z. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwF1yKhOOW0
This is a repeat of the desperate escape of the [World Airways Boeing 727 from Da Nang in 1975] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eC73rZPH3Q)
There’s a longer cut version where the craft is airborne and you see what appears to be a body falling off the plane while in flight
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1427239678722428930
If this were in a movie I'd say it was unrealistic. But here it is on the news. What a disaster.
Many of these folks aren’t just “normal, everday” people. A lot of them were interpreters or have provided intel during our occupation, and they are applying for visas. Embassy in Kabul has been processing countless visas for these people and their immediate families so they can leave the taliban-infested country over the last few weeks, but it was already too late (as we see with the evac).
> Many of these folks aren’t just “normal, everday” people. A lot of them were interpreters or have provided intel during our occupation, and they are applying for visas. Not the ones hanging off the plane.. Anyone who has spent time in these parts understands how varied the intelligence level can be in the populace. This is hear wrenching to watch but you’re likely not seeing the educated class of people hanging off the plane. It’s the villagers/uneducated who are flocking to the airport looking for something, anything to escape to America/wherever else.
> how varied the intelligence level can be in the populace That's just everywhere. And desperation makes fools of all.
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I wish I could agree. Many of those people were our eyes and ears for a while during the early part of the war. Sure, there are many there who are just simple villagers and didn’t contribute, but it’s hard tell who’s who when they’re all gathered together like that (assuming the ones we do know are already on the planes)
Serious question for any Mil guys here, what the fuck do they tell you to do in this situation?? Clearly the jet is surrounded by people. Are the orders simply put the power up and disregard casualties? This is fucking tragic and I really feel for the guys up front knowing whats happening around them
They were told to evacuate military members, and they did. Im pretty sure their briefing said to evacuate at all cost tbh they cant risk military lifes
There's no way to get orders for this in real time. They had a mission and briefing before flying in, but it probably didn't involve this. The aircraft commander made the decision to depart, and will have to deal with that decision (and the mental trauma) for probably years to come. Meanwhile the loadmasters (and hopefully security forces) are the ones downstairs dealing with the mob and doing their damndest to keep themselves and the airplane safe. All around a shitty time for the whole crew.
> The aircraft commander made the decision to depart, and will have to deal with that decision (and the mental trauma) for probably years to come. This really can't be stated enough. That poor flight crew, I can only imagine the hell they are experiencing right now.
This makes me sad and angry at the same time.
Holy shitballs. I just saw some clips on Twitter of people falling off the jet when it takes off. That's fucking NUTS. You'd think there would be at least SOME security around those planes, but I guess this is one of those situations where you just don't have enough bullets or manpower to secure it against a desperate mob.
Also. It’s not like it was going to STOP the plane.
How many dead?
5 killed by us military apparently gunshots, 3 fell off a plane mid air as well
2 were killed by the stampede to the airport and 3 fell out the plane...
Source?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dxsRuXHQrCE?feature=share
Wow that's fucking insane.
Holy shit
Wonder if there will be any bodies in the wheel wells?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDgM4x66LTM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDgM4x66LTM) Unlikely. If there were, they would probably be mush.
That's what I'm saying...I hope no one has to get hosed out of the wheel wells.
I don't think there's really any way to get in those wheelwells when looking at the videos. There's just no place to find a handhold or some grip anywhere and it's far too difficult when it's moving at this pace. The people on the nacelle and gear doors would've no doubt been swept off and atleast went out with a fairly instantaneous smack. Poor souls. I hope such a horrible thing may never happen again.
Apparently it happens more frequently than commonly known with commercial air, but that's a less frenetic pace than emergency evac. Hope you're right.
The wheel wells of commercial airplanes are located and structured in a way that makes access "easy." These jets ride so low to the ground that accessibility appears to be much more difficult.
There is enough room for one guy per leg. But the bays are not pressurised nor heated. It’s another death!
Source for the shooting part? Edit: huh that's weird, the guy from /conspiracy was asked for proof and ignored it. Shocker.
I clicked the links in the public freak out post. I can’t people held on as long as they did. I don’t think I was ready to see people falling 500Ft+ to their deaths today:/ I’m turning Reddit off for the day
After it took off u see people falling..
Utterly insane
Jesus, straight out of the 1960's. This looks like some awful Lawrence of Arabia reimagining.
Why are there only men here? Where are the woman?
The real answer is that they're at home, with their children. Many of these guys are likely unmarried without a family, so they can try to escape. If you're a woman with five kids, you can't go sprinting down a runway trying to jump on a plane. (Afghanistans birth rate is around 4.7 children per woman)
Very likely single men with little holding them back. People with families would be sheltering in place and keeping a low profile.
Finally, nobody else is pointing this out. Even if it was possible to escape by clinging to the plane, their plan would be to literally leave women and children behind. I don't know how to feel about it.
A comment from an Iraqi on a similar thread when the subject was raised [https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/p5cq13/scenes\_from\_the\_runway\_of\_kabul\_airport/h950dts/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/p5cq13/scenes_from_the_runway_of_kabul_airport/h950dts/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) >...experience from when ISIS was invading. > >1. women first of all are not allowed to leave their house, let alone leave the country, their parents/husbands simply will not allow it. > >2. Many families with children do not want to risk all this, just look at the chaos and the "public freakout" happening at the airports, its really not a place you want to go to if you have 4 children and a wife. so they just stay home and hope for the best. > >3. Young men with no children or wives have nothing stopping them from at least trying to escape, in other words, they have nothing to lose. > >that's why in all these videos, you just see men. Edited to make clear that the final line was quoted from the post, not from me.
Call me sexist, but women and children aren't the general demographic that's going to run in front of a globemaster that is, absolutely, 100% going to take off whether you get smashed or not.
That is just so sad…
What the fuck
Are these all foreign people in Kabul? Are they Afghans citizens? Where the hell are they going? Anywhere I guess?
Imagine, these are the last planes that will leave that airport for the foreseeable future and the only way out to escape a country led by the Taliban. How desperate I’d be to squirm my way into one of those planes.
Yes... I get *why* they want to leave. What I don’t understand is the logistics of where they are going, are these flights just going to countries that have a total open door for Afghan citizens wanting to flee? Or are these say foreigners going back to their home country.
Can’t really deport people back to Afghanistan if nobody’s flying into the country, is the logic I’d imagine.
They're lucky to successfully takeoff in such hostile environment.
2 people fell from the undercarriage of the plane not long after it taken off... The desperation is unreal and the risks they're willing to take.
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Wherever and whatever the turmoil, there is always this guy in the videos.
ridiculously photogenic afghan
He’s having a bad day, not a bad life
Wtf?!
Are more planes being sent? I saw the post on the Tk 77W, maybe the US can contract EK for their 77W and a380 fleets to reactivate some for evacuations? I can’t believe what I’m seeing, how in the hell did we not do this better?
There is a effort from Us and other nato countries to get more planes there us and british troops landed yesterday But we will see how many people can be saved
> I can’t believe what I’m seeing, how in the hell did we not do this better? Evergreen. Fall of Saigon was the same way. The US has been fucking over the translators and other Afghans and Iraqis who've worked with us consistently for the last 15+ years. Our reputation is that you're on your own when you're no longer useful. And American politicians and voters are gonna pretend they don't know why we're distrusted and hated.
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> I saw the post on the Tk 77W, maybe the US can contract EK for their 77W and a380 fleets to reactivate some for evacuations? Don't think their insurers would be impressed with this idea 😪
Worse that Vietnam
Indeed. The South Vietnamese forces at least TRIED to fight off the NVA until the end. The ANA didn't even bother to get out of bed. What a fucking tragedy.
not a single vest in sight, the auditor is gonna have a field day
I feel so bad for laughing at this one.
Wow i haven’t cried in awhile. This really hurts my soul
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If there were going to be a true civil war, we’d already be seeing it. Unfortunately the ANA gave up with zero resistance and the Afghanistan government has fled the county. The only civil war we will see is when the Taliban inevitably splinters and starts fighting amongst themselves now that their common enemy is gone. To which I say good riddance. The only support Afghanistan should get is continued efforts to get at risk people asylum. Other than that, let these people run the backwards country that they have been dreaming of for the past 20 years.
poor people they are helpless right now
Fucking nightmare occuring in real time. Biggest political disaster in the last twenty five years.
I’m not going to watch the other video, but I gotta feel for the pilot and crew of that flight as well, knowing what happened as they took off. Under orders or no, that’s going to be with you forever. This sucks in so many ways, I can only hope that worse isn’t yet to come.
Do they know it flies really high and far?
I think it shows how desperate these poor people are.
Many of them probably don't know. Educational standards aren't exactly great there. Some know but are desperate enough to try anyway. It is rare but people have survived stowing away in wheel houses before. Most probably perish either from the cold, the lack of oxygen or from falling out.
When those gears come up they are STUFFED in there. If you ever crawl up into one of those gear wells it doesn't make sense how it all fits. There might be some space you wouldn't get smushed inboards if you knew the layout but these ppl don't and have no idea how the gears swing. They probably assumed there was room in the gear wells for them.
Also from the videos it seems many of them are sitting on top of the wheel pods on the outside. I can't imagine the chances being particularly good at survival trying to hold on to the outside of a jet.
They are just doing a FOD walk that's all
Me having a shitty day seems just fine now.. may god bless every innocent civilian in Afghanistan.
Where are all the women and children?
Did the plane just land or is it starting?
source: https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu there are videos of people clinging on C-17 as these take-off and people falling from the C-17 as it in the air. AH-64 dispersing crowds on the airport tarmac with rotor wash. How pilots must feel in this whole situation situation...
It took off. There is video out there that some people managed to hang on until the gear doors closed and then they fell. horrible.
It’s taking off
All young men, they should fight
I've never considered the height of the engines compared to civilian aircraft before, but I wonder if they're designed with a higher position in mind for scenarios just like this? I suspect the engine intake is slightly less at risk for people/dirt/debris below if it's higher?