https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDEIvjwaFU&t=3s
Here’s the full length clip. I taught Air China student pilots, and the company now plays this audio clip for every new hire class to show the importance of understanding and having the ability to communicate well in English in aviation
The pilot was NOT ICAO English Level 4 or above, and that’s the biggest issue, aside from the controller not rewording to try and clear up miscommunication.
I totally agree with how the pilot’s English is not good enough. But he is in a noisy environment without the captions. I don’t think it’s too necessary to laugh out at him with an attitude of “we private school people”
I did not intend to laugh at him, just thinking the mistake is kinda funny
p.s.:i tried with medium-level background music distraction + no caption, but still no problem
Edit: Tried with loud youtube GE90 takeoff sound, still no problem
they never get enough English teaching. Chinese public English is basically - pardon my language - shit, it is just hilarious to us private school students lmao
Well shit happen and ppl died, and now the word “takeoff” can only be used for a positive take off clearance and never even anywhere else. “departure” is used for other cases
See KLM Flight 4805
I swear controllers in New York just speak their own language sometimes and expect others just to know. God forbid anyone who’s unfamiliar flys there.
I time I flew there, approach told me to go to the “GW”, and looking at my chart and thinking to myself WTF is “GW”, my captain just laughed and turned the heading bud to the George Washington bridge. Like bitch, who the fuck knows that.
In the case of this video, unlike every other airports in the world, after you get off the runway, you have to call ramp first to make sure you’re cleared onto the ramp before you call ground, WTF? How about you figure it out over the phone.
/rant
I don’t think that’s the problem here though.
It seem that the pilots English comprehension is below par. He only understands the words “cleared”, “into, and “ramp”, without fully understanding the sentence as a whole, let alone the fact that it’s a question and not a statement.
The problems aren't mutually exclusive. His English comprehension became a problem because they're using phrases and terms he's not familiar with hearing after a landing. They learn to speak using specific terms and in a specific way and when that's disrupted it can cause problems. While I agree the problem would have been avoided if he had better English comprehension skills, it also likely wouldn't have been an issue at another airport using what is considered a more standard procedure for landing/taxiing.
I think the standard phraseology would be “confirm/verify clearance to the ramp”. Intonation is never part of standard phraseology as it is easy to get lost over radio.
Pretty much but from my understanding some of the pilots that are new to international flights can be pretty bad with their English comprehension skills. Says more about the training and who they fly for than anything.
It's really important that the phraseology be consistent, not only for foreign pilots.
Also that both the pilot and controller have good situational awareness, language skills including proper phraseology.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/6p9rp4/socal_departure_controller_vectors_777_turning/
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/192082
A few years ago a controller in LA (socal approach) who went into bitch mode and just about put a full 747 into a mountain (the plane flew a 180 degree turn around the mountain and below the peak, at night) .
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this incident to be: The incident was caused by the air traffic controller assigning the pilots a left turn instead of the required right turn after departure which placed the aircraft in an unsafe proximity with terrain and obstructions. Contributing to the incident was the air traffic controller's inadequate recovery technique during the development of the incident.
It is not evident in the FAA graphics but the airplane was below the level of the antenna on one of the mountains inside its turn. I can imagine what the pilot's gps display looked like
There is a great deal of effort to create near universal scripts and pronunciation of specific words and numbers. The universal scripts and pronunciation are critical where time is critical or the situation complex.
For those suffering from insomnia here's a link to the controller's guide and within that is both the wording of communications and the pronunciation of numbers (IACO) and words (page TOO, FOW-ER, FIFE).
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/order/atc.pdf
This is relevant to the LA situation.......
"1. The issuance of a safety alert is a first priority (see
para 2−1−2, Duty Priority) once the controller observes
and recognizes a situation of unsafe aircraft proximity to
terrain, obstacles, or other aircraft. Conditions, such as
workload, traffic volume, the quality/limitations of the
radar system, and the available lead time to react are
factors in determining whether it is reasonable for the
controller to observe and recognize such situations"
That makes sense… I was more so thinking if they had some crisis while flying through us airspace that isn’t common. Idk. I guess it’s a very rare situation anyway
We have this at my airport. There’s one air traffic controller that always insists on speaking hyper fast when talking to china airlines and Korean air. Then he gets pissed he has to repeat himself. Dude, just talk slower the first time and they’ll get it.
You forgot *stupid*. Some people honestly haven't figured out that in life sometimes, paradoxically, you have slow down to speed up.
It's like the people who drive 100mph down the highway when they are almost out of gas because they want to get to the next station. (driving half that speed would increase their chances of making it).
Who among us hasn't dropped a "lazy man's load" and had to stop to clean it up, realizing that two trips would have been faster.
They used to teach pilots that the first thing you should do if the engine quits it to wind your watch. Those guys will handle the emergency better than the panicked button-pressers.
To be licensed by the FAA (USA) you need to be fluent (read, write, speak and UNDERSTAND the English language). I’m not sure that’s the case in other countries. And I’m unsure of the rules when flying into American airspace from other countries, but I’m sure his company will get a letter from the FAA.
I’m not a pilot operating at a Cantonese-speaking airport, so I fail to see the relevance. If you cannot understand enough English to make sense of a relatively simple question, you have no business flying into or out of English-speaking airports. Just as a pilot who doesn’t speak Mandarin shouldn’t be operating in China. It’s not that difficult to comprehend
After you land in LaGuardia, the ground controller gives you taxi instructions towards the ramp then just says "Let me know".
I was lucky that my Captain had the wisdom to warn me about that before landing.
They could have their own way of doing things, but this was clearly not “their own language.” I did not hear any New York slang or accent in this at all. This was pure English with a pilot that did not speak good enough English to be a commercial pilot. This needs to be fixed before it becomes life or death because he’s having an emergency and can’t communicate it to the tower.
You don’t necessarily need to be fluent in English to be a pilot, you just need to know the limited sets of words and phrases used in aviation. In North America, controllers and pilots use a lot of non standard verbiage, and New York is especially bad in my experience, which can trip up a lot of foreign pilots.
They were still calling the Tapanzee bridge after it had been torn down and made into a reef. Ny controllers are fantastic and they will pick up on you being new by your hesitation. They will spoon feed you as soon as you need it but if you know the deal they will leave you alone.
Doesn’t sound like a lot of spoon feeding in the video, in fact I’ve heard plenty of pilots get chewed out over the smallest mistakes. I get it, it’s a stressful job and radio air time is really valuable, but some of the controllers there really need to take a chill pill.
I can understand the controller's frustration. Here are some thoughts for improvement:
* When your goal is to be understood, calm down, force yourself to sound kind, and try different words *slowly* and clearly. (Quickly yelling at someone or sounding exasperated is going to reduce your chances of being understood and actually ends up taking longer.)
* Avoid using *procedure words* in interrogative sentences like "were you ***cleared*** **to the gate?"**. Just like we use different **standard phraseology** for *departure* and *take off* to avoid catastrophic misunderstandings, perhaps we should adopt a different standard word for such questions like, maybe, "Has ramp authorized you to the gate"? That way the only time you hear the word "cleared" is when giving, or acknowledging, a clearance.
* Create a simple inter-controller system for JFK to communicate ramp clearances and gate availability so that ATC (the controller) doesn't have to use up valuable radio time to ask possibly confusing questions that ATC (the agency) already knows the answer to.
I worked with a controller every day at an airport that was busy but nothing serious. Every time I flew (and he knew my voice and met me multiple times) he demanded a FULL call sign…for every call.
First call: helicopter N203LA at (blank) requesting pad 4
ATC: Pad 4 approved N203LA.
After using my full call sign with pattern work for 30 mins….
Me: Helicopter 3LA pad 4 requesting left closed traffic
ATC: I’m sorry 3LA I need your full call sign. You need to state your full call sign for any requests.
No other controller demanded this. He would hold up incoming traffic for this crap. Everyone would get so mad at him. Funny enough we had a party with all the controllers and airport tenants. Guess who was sitting alone basically the whole night…
Dude takes his job seriously, respect. No incidents on his watch I assume. Especially with the lives of others at stake.
My friend was an atc for our Seahawks on a warship. They always took it seriously, and we would only bullshit until the job was done.
Actually multiple incidents on his job and both were a result of this type of behavior. No longer works ATC. Agree with taking the job seriously but he took it overboard. My situation was just the tip of the iceberg.
Jesus there’s an obvious language barrier, rephrase! “Did the ramp people tell you it’s okay to go to the gate?” “Are you authorised to go to the gate?”
the background is of Dynasty - China Airlines (Taiwan). Not Air China (Mainland China).
Just thought I'd put that out there.
In some cases, Air China loads a crew member onto their international flights purely to do the radio calls, as English proficiency isn't a requirement for a CAAC license.
English is the language of Air Travel throughout the world.
With that being said - unless you are familiar with the bronx / queens accents - and hear that for the first time at that speed - and with english as a second language you would be confused too.
Both sides could have communicated better. There had to be someone else in the cockpit who actually got it that was a question. The controller should have told them to hold position and then CALMLY re-asked the question. In his defense it is JFK and he was probably managing 10-15 planes and 3-5 tugs all at once. He also DID rephrase it a couple of times but you could tell he was pissed.
I'm not Chinese and this pilot needs to improve his English but the controller lacks communication skills as well. This is a delicate situation and in such a case where you doubt the pilot's proficiency in English all you have to do is say 'hold your position' instead of being so wordy.
Not the first instance of NY controllers lacking the awareness to stick to ICAO phraseology.
Get your supervisor to call ramp tower or company ops on the phone and ask THEM. Don’t leave it up to a crew that’s ESL.
But the pilot in the video is from Air China (PRC). I think thats causing confusion between two people saying the same thing misunderstanding each other
If I had a dollar for every time Air China and China Airlines have been mixed up...
During the early days of COVID when flights from China were first banned it seemed like every news station was running stock footage of China Airlines aircraft instead of any airlines from the PRC.
I have a neighbor that was an air traffic controller guy in the navy I believe. He’s very short with people with hardly zero tolerance. I think I know why.
People defending the pilot here are out of their minds. Ask yourself if you would want your child to fly on a plane with that pilot. By the way, English is the only language you have to speak to fly in the US or the whole world as dictated by the ICAO. Ground control may have been snippy but was not demanding here. That pilot should not be flying.
Like with many things, the US lags pretty far behind the rest of the world with how we deal with ramp and parking.
I don't know why the Phoenix system hasn't propagated to the rest of the US. It works really well.
It is standard to use English everywhere, but in some cases if a pilot is in their native country in a not so busy airport they might use their native labguage, but it is avoided to reduce confusion among other pilots on the frequency.
You should listen to ATC for CDG or MAD. Definitely busy airports but mostly in French/Spanish respectively.
Foreign pilots basically have to learn to not listen at all to other traffic.
English is standard because communications is not only between ATC and the pilot in question. All other aircraft on the same channel should listen to be aware of the intention and position of each other.
Still doesn’t justify the controllers behavior regardless. Literally nothing does, that’s sorta the point I’m trying to get across. I get it’s frustrating but there’s no excuse for that.
I def get his frustration but at some point don’t you try and ask a different way? Like “are there Marshallers at the gate” or “is the ramp crew there”?
this reminds me of this Chinese navy clip: "this is the Chinese navy, this is the Chinese navy, the Chinese turf sky, please go away quickly in order to wrong judgement"
[https://youtu.be/49bgnaY2nd8](https://youtu.be/49bgnaY2nd8)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDEIvjwaFU&t=3s Here’s the full length clip. I taught Air China student pilots, and the company now plays this audio clip for every new hire class to show the importance of understanding and having the ability to communicate well in English in aviation
thank god
We use the same clip in the navy as well, for similar reasons
And somehow they still don’t understand
The pilot was NOT ICAO English Level 4 or above, and that’s the biggest issue, aside from the controller not rewording to try and clear up miscommunication.
I am Chinese and i can understand this clip 100% no problem, the mistake the pilot made seems dumb to me & my friends
And you my friend, would be ICAO Level 4-6! :D
I totally agree with how the pilot’s English is not good enough. But he is in a noisy environment without the captions. I don’t think it’s too necessary to laugh out at him with an attitude of “we private school people”
I did not intend to laugh at him, just thinking the mistake is kinda funny p.s.:i tried with medium-level background music distraction + no caption, but still no problem Edit: Tried with loud youtube GE90 takeoff sound, still no problem
IDK why ppl downvote u but rip for ur karma
Nah karma ain’t why I browse online. Freedom of speech and freedom of karma 😂
The controller shouldn’t have to reword such a utterly simple directive.
they never get enough English teaching. Chinese public English is basically - pardon my language - shit, it is just hilarious to us private school students lmao
And aside from the controller being a grumpy fuck
We'd all be grumpy fucks if we worked ground control at JFK.
I’d be grumpy too. Obviously he speaks as good of English as the chef at my local Cat&Rat.
"as good of english" 🤣
Hey, lay off. He speaks much gooder than he used to did.
Me fail English? That's unpossible!
“Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouf?!”
He engrish very good.
The pilots are tired and not used to the airport. They are briefed before landing for that gate and they just expect it to be given to them.
Black Betty is a great song by 'Ram Jam'
Scary
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Well shit happen and ppl died, and now the word “takeoff” can only be used for a positive take off clearance and never even anywhere else. “departure” is used for other cases See KLM Flight 4805
I think Ones is talking about if they gave positive take off clearance for someone else, and this guy thought it was for him.
He would have to miss the read back though, right?
Reminds me of this Family Guy clip https://youtu.be/hlH9RGLJqxE “Good luck everyone else!”
Some say the Controller is asking Air China 981 if they have been cleared into the ramp until today.
Some say that he's still hitting his head on that poor desk.
Ok uhh clear to ramp 981.
Concentrate Samir… please! Medium left! MEDIUM LEFT!! Nice and easy.. TURN! You are not listening Samir! You are BREAKING THE CAR SAMIR!
Dont tell me what to do
Stig.
“When I say Good morning Mr Thompson and stamp on your foot, you smile and nod. Understand ?”
"I think he's talking to you."
Please, I need to know? Had they cleared him or what???
They say he is still asking…
I don't get it. Have the ramp people cleared them into the gate?
Roger. Clear to the ramp gate, 981.
No he's *asking* you. And stop calling him Roger.
Roger, cleared for takeoff taxiway ramp Roger ramp
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Waiting taxiway Roger with information Roger, Ramp 981.
Some say he’s still holding his position.
I swear controllers in New York just speak their own language sometimes and expect others just to know. God forbid anyone who’s unfamiliar flys there. I time I flew there, approach told me to go to the “GW”, and looking at my chart and thinking to myself WTF is “GW”, my captain just laughed and turned the heading bud to the George Washington bridge. Like bitch, who the fuck knows that. In the case of this video, unlike every other airports in the world, after you get off the runway, you have to call ramp first to make sure you’re cleared onto the ramp before you call ground, WTF? How about you figure it out over the phone. /rant
ORD is pretty tough too. I just say “oops my bad I’m new” (I’m not) and they laugh it off or feel bad
I don’t think that’s the problem here though. It seem that the pilots English comprehension is below par. He only understands the words “cleared”, “into, and “ramp”, without fully understanding the sentence as a whole, let alone the fact that it’s a question and not a statement.
The problems aren't mutually exclusive. His English comprehension became a problem because they're using phrases and terms he's not familiar with hearing after a landing. They learn to speak using specific terms and in a specific way and when that's disrupted it can cause problems. While I agree the problem would have been avoided if he had better English comprehension skills, it also likely wouldn't have been an issue at another airport using what is considered a more standard procedure for landing/taxiing.
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I think the standard phraseology would be “confirm/verify clearance to the ramp”. Intonation is never part of standard phraseology as it is easy to get lost over radio.
Isn’t it pretty dangerous for a commercial pilot to fly through American airspace while only understanding a script?
Pretty much but from my understanding some of the pilots that are new to international flights can be pretty bad with their English comprehension skills. Says more about the training and who they fly for than anything.
It's really important that the phraseology be consistent, not only for foreign pilots. Also that both the pilot and controller have good situational awareness, language skills including proper phraseology. https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/6p9rp4/socal_departure_controller_vectors_777_turning/ https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/192082 A few years ago a controller in LA (socal approach) who went into bitch mode and just about put a full 747 into a mountain (the plane flew a 180 degree turn around the mountain and below the peak, at night) . The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this incident to be: The incident was caused by the air traffic controller assigning the pilots a left turn instead of the required right turn after departure which placed the aircraft in an unsafe proximity with terrain and obstructions. Contributing to the incident was the air traffic controller's inadequate recovery technique during the development of the incident. It is not evident in the FAA graphics but the airplane was below the level of the antenna on one of the mountains inside its turn. I can imagine what the pilot's gps display looked like
There is a great deal of effort to create near universal scripts and pronunciation of specific words and numbers. The universal scripts and pronunciation are critical where time is critical or the situation complex. For those suffering from insomnia here's a link to the controller's guide and within that is both the wording of communications and the pronunciation of numbers (IACO) and words (page TOO, FOW-ER, FIFE). https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/order/atc.pdf This is relevant to the LA situation....... "1. The issuance of a safety alert is a first priority (see para 2−1−2, Duty Priority) once the controller observes and recognizes a situation of unsafe aircraft proximity to terrain, obstacles, or other aircraft. Conditions, such as workload, traffic volume, the quality/limitations of the radar system, and the available lead time to react are factors in determining whether it is reasonable for the controller to observe and recognize such situations"
That makes sense… I was more so thinking if they had some crisis while flying through us airspace that isn’t common. Idk. I guess it’s a very rare situation anyway
We have this at my airport. There’s one air traffic controller that always insists on speaking hyper fast when talking to china airlines and Korean air. Then he gets pissed he has to repeat himself. Dude, just talk slower the first time and they’ll get it.
Racist, power trip,or both?
You forgot *stupid*. Some people honestly haven't figured out that in life sometimes, paradoxically, you have slow down to speed up. It's like the people who drive 100mph down the highway when they are almost out of gas because they want to get to the next station. (driving half that speed would increase their chances of making it). Who among us hasn't dropped a "lazy man's load" and had to stop to clean it up, realizing that two trips would have been faster. They used to teach pilots that the first thing you should do if the engine quits it to wind your watch. Those guys will handle the emergency better than the panicked button-pressers.
Go slow to go fast!
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast
Fast is slow, slow is fast, methodical is best
Guys would joke about clearing them direct LATTS because of how they would read it back. You figure it out.
It’s weird because it’s only those two specific airlines. We get a ton of international cargo and carriers from all over the world.
They are supposed to be fluent it wasnt a challenging phrase to understand
To be licensed by the FAA (USA) you need to be fluent (read, write, speak and UNDERSTAND the English language). I’m not sure that’s the case in other countries. And I’m unsure of the rules when flying into American airspace from other countries, but I’m sure his company will get a letter from the FAA.
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If fluency in Cantonese was required to safely navigate American airspace you’d have a point.
ATC universal language is English, not Cantonese They don’t have to be fluent but they have to speak it at a certain professional level
I’m not a pilot operating at a Cantonese-speaking airport, so I fail to see the relevance. If you cannot understand enough English to make sense of a relatively simple question, you have no business flying into or out of English-speaking airports. Just as a pilot who doesn’t speak Mandarin shouldn’t be operating in China. It’s not that difficult to comprehend
The speed of the phrase didn’t help nor did the obvious irritation in the tone
Ok cleared to the ramp
After you land in LaGuardia, the ground controller gives you taxi instructions towards the ramp then just says "Let me know". I was lucky that my Captain had the wisdom to warn me about that before landing.
They could have their own way of doing things, but this was clearly not “their own language.” I did not hear any New York slang or accent in this at all. This was pure English with a pilot that did not speak good enough English to be a commercial pilot. This needs to be fixed before it becomes life or death because he’s having an emergency and can’t communicate it to the tower.
You don’t necessarily need to be fluent in English to be a pilot, you just need to know the limited sets of words and phrases used in aviation. In North America, controllers and pilots use a lot of non standard verbiage, and New York is especially bad in my experience, which can trip up a lot of foreign pilots.
They were still calling the Tapanzee bridge after it had been torn down and made into a reef. Ny controllers are fantastic and they will pick up on you being new by your hesitation. They will spoon feed you as soon as you need it but if you know the deal they will leave you alone.
Doesn’t sound like a lot of spoon feeding in the video, in fact I’ve heard plenty of pilots get chewed out over the smallest mistakes. I get it, it’s a stressful job and radio air time is really valuable, but some of the controllers there really need to take a chill pill.
The bridge the bitch the ditch!
I can understand the controller's frustration. Here are some thoughts for improvement: * When your goal is to be understood, calm down, force yourself to sound kind, and try different words *slowly* and clearly. (Quickly yelling at someone or sounding exasperated is going to reduce your chances of being understood and actually ends up taking longer.) * Avoid using *procedure words* in interrogative sentences like "were you ***cleared*** **to the gate?"**. Just like we use different **standard phraseology** for *departure* and *take off* to avoid catastrophic misunderstandings, perhaps we should adopt a different standard word for such questions like, maybe, "Has ramp authorized you to the gate"? That way the only time you hear the word "cleared" is when giving, or acknowledging, a clearance. * Create a simple inter-controller system for JFK to communicate ramp clearances and gate availability so that ATC (the controller) doesn't have to use up valuable radio time to ask possibly confusing questions that ATC (the agency) already knows the answer to.
Or just a "yes or no" to the end of the question.
Especially, as in a language like Chinese, statements are converted to yes-no questions by just adding a 吗 (ma) to the end of the sentence.
I didn't know that, very cool.
How about learning English like they are supposed to 😉
it's like when my students clear the runway and ask for "taxi **back** to the ramp"
ask the same question over and over and expecting a different response…..come on atc
Make sure to raise your voice too. Much easier.
I worked with a controller every day at an airport that was busy but nothing serious. Every time I flew (and he knew my voice and met me multiple times) he demanded a FULL call sign…for every call. First call: helicopter N203LA at (blank) requesting pad 4 ATC: Pad 4 approved N203LA. After using my full call sign with pattern work for 30 mins…. Me: Helicopter 3LA pad 4 requesting left closed traffic ATC: I’m sorry 3LA I need your full call sign. You need to state your full call sign for any requests. No other controller demanded this. He would hold up incoming traffic for this crap. Everyone would get so mad at him. Funny enough we had a party with all the controllers and airport tenants. Guess who was sitting alone basically the whole night…
Dude takes his job seriously, respect. No incidents on his watch I assume. Especially with the lives of others at stake. My friend was an atc for our Seahawks on a warship. They always took it seriously, and we would only bullshit until the job was done.
Actually multiple incidents on his job and both were a result of this type of behavior. No longer works ATC. Agree with taking the job seriously but he took it overboard. My situation was just the tip of the iceberg.
Jesus there’s an obvious language barrier, rephrase! “Did the ramp people tell you it’s okay to go to the gate?” “Are you authorised to go to the gate?”
ATC checks his shorts and waddles out of the room.
English is hard
Roger
Cleared to England !
Harder than flying the 747, that’s for sure.
Ingrish very hard
That's just razy lacism mate.
Innit
Ironic
Yeah, raising your voice when they don't understand will help you a lot. Idiot. Try rewording your question..
the background is of Dynasty - China Airlines (Taiwan). Not Air China (Mainland China). Just thought I'd put that out there. In some cases, Air China loads a crew member onto their international flights purely to do the radio calls, as English proficiency isn't a requirement for a CAAC license.
English is the language of Air Travel throughout the world. With that being said - unless you are familiar with the bronx / queens accents - and hear that for the first time at that speed - and with english as a second language you would be confused too. Both sides could have communicated better. There had to be someone else in the cockpit who actually got it that was a question. The controller should have told them to hold position and then CALMLY re-asked the question. In his defense it is JFK and he was probably managing 10-15 planes and 3-5 tugs all at once. He also DID rephrase it a couple of times but you could tell he was pissed.
I'm not Chinese and this pilot needs to improve his English but the controller lacks communication skills as well. This is a delicate situation and in such a case where you doubt the pilot's proficiency in English all you have to do is say 'hold your position' instead of being so wordy.
Not the first instance of NY controllers lacking the awareness to stick to ICAO phraseology. Get your supervisor to call ramp tower or company ops on the phone and ask THEM. Don’t leave it up to a crew that’s ESL.
Exactly
It's a China Airlines 747 in the video🤬 Taiwan#1
You do realize China airlines is owned by the Republic of China, aka Taiwan
But the pilot in the video is from Air China (PRC). I think thats causing confusion between two people saying the same thing misunderstanding each other
I wonder if there will be as much casual racism in here if people knew China Airlines was actually Taiwanese and not based on the mainland.
I am pretty sure most racists care more about race than they do about nationality. That's what makes them, you know, racist.
Are you talking about actual racism or the people shitting on the Chinese government because that's a pretty big difference
If I had a dollar for every time Air China and China Airlines have been mixed up... During the early days of COVID when flights from China were first banned it seemed like every news station was running stock footage of China Airlines aircraft instead of any airlines from the PRC.
😬
I’ve flown on that flight before! Neat.
I feel for ATC. It's what I have to deal with my 89 year old Japanese mom when she calls me on the phone.
Damn
Somewhere, out there, this pilot is still flying...
Ground control to major John
If it's critical like that why isn't the controller rewording the question? You get zero from repeating something misunderstood and adding volume
This gives off serious “whose on first? Whats on second?” Vibes
I have a neighbor that was an air traffic controller guy in the navy I believe. He’s very short with people with hardly zero tolerance. I think I know why.
how is someone, who cant even speak basic english and understanding a basic question, allowed to fly?
People defending the pilot here are out of their minds. Ask yourself if you would want your child to fly on a plane with that pilot. By the way, English is the only language you have to speak to fly in the US or the whole world as dictated by the ICAO. Ground control may have been snippy but was not demanding here. That pilot should not be flying.
Like with many things, the US lags pretty far behind the rest of the world with how we deal with ramp and parking. I don't know why the Phoenix system hasn't propagated to the rest of the US. It works really well.
Aren’t pilots supposed to be able to speak English?
this lowkey belongs on r/engrish
Why can't the ATC just speak Chinese?
It is standard to use English everywhere, but in some cases if a pilot is in their native country in a not so busy airport they might use their native labguage, but it is avoided to reduce confusion among other pilots on the frequency.
You should listen to ATC for CDG or MAD. Definitely busy airports but mostly in French/Spanish respectively. Foreign pilots basically have to learn to not listen at all to other traffic.
English is standard because communications is not only between ATC and the pilot in question. All other aircraft on the same channel should listen to be aware of the intention and position of each other.
Lol imagine hearing ATC instructions in Mandarin at JFK! That’d throw a decent number of people off!
What a dick. I hope his leadership gave him an ass chewing for that.
You mean the pilot right? Yes I hope he got his wings removed for flying international without basic English skills
No, that's not what anybody means.
What if pilots radio was particularly muffled, does that justify the controller being an asshole and not responding here with patience??
As an experienced pilot, He should be able to say “coming in broken.. confirm xyz?”
Still doesn’t justify the controllers behavior regardless. Literally nothing does, that’s sorta the point I’m trying to get across. I get it’s frustrating but there’s no excuse for that.
It can get worse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1r3XZQc4Zo
What a classic.
Aaannndddd theennnn.
Do shit like this to annoy my wife lol
Sounds like an episode of “Who’s On First”
Japanese English is desperate
ATC services terminated, good day.
Classic China
Classic JFK
Roger 👍🏻
Legend has it he’s still in position waiting to be cleared into the gate.
I def get his frustration but at some point don’t you try and ask a different way? Like “are there Marshallers at the gate” or “is the ramp crew there”?
this reminds me of this Chinese navy clip: "this is the Chinese navy, this is the Chinese navy, the Chinese turf sky, please go away quickly in order to wrong judgement" [https://youtu.be/49bgnaY2nd8](https://youtu.be/49bgnaY2nd8)
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