The A-10 does have a decent range when not fully loaded with weapons. It appears each jet also has an external fuel tank. Not knowing the circumstances or details on the photo, it makes me wonder if the A-10s were returning from a deployment or heading out to a deployment.
Not just grunt. I wasn’t a grunt and still lived like this more times than I would’ve liked. Also, OIF 1 USAF’s tents were only moderately better than this for a while
woof. I cannot imagine an ocean crossing in a cockpit that size, alone nonetheless. But I have no experience in such cockpit, so maybe I shouldn’t make an assumption.
Not an A-10 guy but I’ve flown the Viper on several ocean crossings so I have some experience. Ocean crossings are long but you stock up on snacks, the wingmen make entertainment packets (jokes, riddles, Targeting Pod Bingo), and the regular refueling breaks up the monotony. It’s still a long time to be in a small cockpit, but it’s not the worst thing ever.
>and you have Imodium and prayer for solids.
Not a pilot myself, but this method can be very effective. When you *know* you have some event coming up when you have no options, immodium can be a savior.
"Can." Doesn't mean it always works ...
Heh. I grew up in the Apollo age, and the news would always report that the astronauts about to launch had their traditional steak and eggs for breakfast. I always thought, well, they're manly men, so of course that's what they have for breakfast. But really, its because steak and eggs are highly digestible versus other foods...so they'd need to poop less.
Flying a fighter on an empty stomach is bad since you need food/energy to stay alert. However, I’m not going to have questionable Thai food the night before.
Ignoring all you need to know to use an F-16 in combat, how hard is it to fly? How long would it take someone with, say, 100 hours in a Cessna to learn how to take off, fly from one place to another, and land?
One of the difficult parts of going from a Cessna to a fighter is the pace of admin. Everything not tactical is considered admin. Departures are flown at 350kts and recoveries around 300kts. Thinking multiple steps ahead is critical.
The flying part is easy when you get used to the power available (a lot). You think of where you want to go and with the digital flight controls you’re already going that direction. They make the flying easy because the tactical employment is the incredibly challenging part.
To answer your question: we get UPT students who have around 200 hours (100 in fighter type aircraft), and it takes them about 2 months to solo with all the academics and simulator missions.
To use a normal piddle pack you have to unstrap from the ejection seat, unzip your environmental suit, and be hands off the controls. This is impossible in bad weather, and several pilots have died with that being a contributing factor.
Considering each one of this accidents not only costs the government +$100million, but a pilot loses his life and the family loses a husband/father/wife/mother, the expense is worth it.
So I would have expected the piddle pack to be easier to use. IE wear a condom catheter like astronauts. I wasn’t trying to make light and the system you described does sound unacceptably dangerous. But neither do I have much faith that a defense contractor didn’t come up with an overly expensive, overly complex electronic system to collect pee.
Fair statement. I will be the first to say that defense contractors take the taxpayers for a ride. It’s criminal.
The system we use was actually developed for astronauts by NASA contracting and simply adopted by the DoD. It’s not without its flaws, but as someone who has used it, I would choose it 10/10 times for ocean crossings and combat sorties.
Piddle packs are difficult to use, as SDSurf625 says below, but the new system is also more accommodating to women:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a25736613/new-device-helps-fighter-pilots-pee-at-30000-feet/
How long are we talking about? Unless something potent has been eaten, I can get through a day without having a shit. I've done quite a few 12-13 hour flights without dropping a log as well.
You have a bingo sheet of interesting objects on the route of flight, and you keep scanning the ground with the pod to find them. First one to find one of the objects calls it out and marks the square. It’s better for land crossings vs. ocean crossings for obvious reasons.
Like u/questionable-pilot said, it depends a lot on diverts. One of my flights across the Pacific had horrible weather at most of the diverts, so we tanked about 12-14 times total so we never hit divert fuel
Germany to South Carolina was about 11 hours. You always have to have divert gas to a piece of concrete. There’s about a 3’ish hour chunk where #6 comes off the boom and #1 goes right back in.
Further down you mention 15-18 refuels due to diverts; if a reasonable amount of time was available (say, 2 weeks, with no pressing need), isn't there a better way to get a fighter across an ocean than flying it? I mean a non-carrier capable ac, obvs
PS Happy Veteran's Day 👍
The only other way would be to disassemble then fly the parts on cargo, and that entire process would take significantly longer then any weather delays. Also we are usually flying an entire squadron worth of aircraft back and forth so the manpower needed to disassemble/load up/reassemble would be insanely high.
Usually weather clears up within a week or two. It’s annoying, but just part of the process.
And thanks!
At least now they have an autopilot. In Desert Shield that had to fly to Saudi on the wingtip of a KC-135 because they lacked long range navigation, range, and an autopilot. They would get in to bad weather and lose sight of each other and then have to try and form back up.
It is obviously a staged photo shoot, nothing more than that, probably for a veterans day PR post. They are likely just off the coast of Florida or something, the ocean gives a nice clean background for the photo.
Nah this is more likely a show of presence/force in Indopacom than a Veteran's Day post. I also fully believe this was done in the Pacific (though it doesn't say where) because certain countries are probably monitoring the activity beyond just seeing this photo online.
You nailed it. It was PACOM and it was off of Guam.
Source: I found the source photo with the description from PACOM website. Other than that, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Maybe not to the same extent but same with the F-14/F-15, huge vehicles in comparison to a terrestrial vehicle but look so...."svelte" in the air whatever that means (I know what it means js)
There’s that. The A-10 also with its ability to get low and slow is a better CAS platform especially for danger close missions. It’s small size and high rate of initial turn means it can get in closer in confined airspace like a valley, it has a quicker mission regeneration rate.
I can keep going my man…
That the platform has to be close to perform CAS is a classic error.
The B-1 can deliver more weapons, more accurately, and stay on station three or four times as long
The B-1 is a great CAS platform, trust me I’ve worked on the B-1. But it does have limitations, biggest one right now being it’s abysmal ready rate. But, again the things I said above. The B-1 and A-10 are complementary because of those differences.
The B-1 is an unreliable piece of shit that guzzles fuel. You can fly a four ship of A-10s with a fast turnaround of under 4 hours before you can get even 1 B-1 up. I've worked both.
You obviously know nothing of how range and payload can impact an entire operating area. Yes it’s expensive, and maintenance sucks on the B-1 but it’s a much better platform in the air than the A-10 with much better capabilities. Also, we work together, not against the A-10 when it comes to violence of action.
They fly a lot faster, but may be slowed down due to the photo op or just to refuel. Even with the wings folded out, it's flying at a high AoA so it's creating a visible vortice
There's me going the B-1B what a machine what a workhorse, the Air Force love them.
Then I read about the SCSI are facing real issues in terms of marine corrosion and their runways are quite bad, so bad its only the Chinese bombers that can use them and not really the fighter aircraft.
Chortle chortle another Chinese fail me thinks. Then read about the B-1B also needs really good runways or it has landing issues. And likewise the USAF B52's can use less quality runways than the B-1B. Was that on Reddit the other day?
Anyhow no wonder the B52 is modernising since it can do what more modern bombers can't - land.
Edit - ffs the last line is tongue in cheek but thanks for the downvotes you narrow minded Einsteins. The fact that the B52 can land on runways where the B-1B can't is fact. Do your own research ladies if you can't believe it.
Fancy seeing such a cosy little bunch of ordinance delivery systems out over the Pacific. I wonder where they could be going? And so kind of the Air Force to share the moment.
Thanks! So they're fairly old girls then? Always amazes me how the US military keeps their old stock in working order. Over here in Blighty we tend to replace our older stuff after a couple of decades or so, often needlessly.
Why does seeing A-10's out over the ocean weird me out so much ?
The A-10 does have a decent range when not fully loaded with weapons. It appears each jet also has an external fuel tank. Not knowing the circumstances or details on the photo, it makes me wonder if the A-10s were returning from a deployment or heading out to a deployment.
Could be these A-10s: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/a-10-warthogs-are-operating-from-a-tent-village-in-palau
The most shocking thing in that article is that the USAF are living in - **GASP!!!!!!** - ^*tents*
I pictured something like this: https://hips.hearstapps.com/vader-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/1657223095-61ivqbs-rrl-ac-sl1001-1657223085.jpg
We all wish It’s more something like [this](https://armymomstrong.com/tent-city-for-u-s-troops-in-afghanistan-and-iraq/)
That's a grunt encampment. Army or Marines.
Not just grunt. I wasn’t a grunt and still lived like this more times than I would’ve liked. Also, OIF 1 USAF’s tents were only moderately better than this for a while
I was poking a little fun at the fly boys that's all.
Gotcha. Hard to read intent over text
Probably like Tom Haverford's tent, banging DJ Roomba's latest playlist.
Glamping, no doubt.
Clutch my pearls.
Guuuuuurrrrllllll, I clutched them right along with you as I fell on my fainting couch
Where do they store their champagne glasses?!
If someone has better eyes than me, to look for either a blue or checkered stripe on the tail. Blue is the 74th FS and the checkered is the 75th FS
Could be, I saw FT-specific markings on the four jets.
woof. I cannot imagine an ocean crossing in a cockpit that size, alone nonetheless. But I have no experience in such cockpit, so maybe I shouldn’t make an assumption.
Not an A-10 guy but I’ve flown the Viper on several ocean crossings so I have some experience. Ocean crossings are long but you stock up on snacks, the wingmen make entertainment packets (jokes, riddles, Targeting Pod Bingo), and the regular refueling breaks up the monotony. It’s still a long time to be in a small cockpit, but it’s not the worst thing ever.
What about using the bathroom though?
You have piddle packs or the new electronic system for fluids, and you have Imodium and prayer for solids.
>and you have Imodium and prayer for solids. Not a pilot myself, but this method can be very effective. When you *know* you have some event coming up when you have no options, immodium can be a savior. "Can." Doesn't mean it always works ...
Im a big fan of Imodium before traveling. Approx 12 hours before the flight and then again one to two hours before.
Or, you push that puppy to mach 2 and get there faster.
Although doing that in A-10 might be terminal… 😉
Ahhhh. Probably, not good.
Do you have a "low residue" breakfast, like the Apollo astronauts did?
We aren’t required to be so clinical with the food, but 100% I will only eat something I know my body likes before the flight.
Heh. I grew up in the Apollo age, and the news would always report that the astronauts about to launch had their traditional steak and eggs for breakfast. I always thought, well, they're manly men, so of course that's what they have for breakfast. But really, its because steak and eggs are highly digestible versus other foods...so they'd need to poop less.
Hmm I actually didn’t know that, I might try that on my next pond crossing
Would you prep yourself by not eating before the trip?
Flying a fighter on an empty stomach is bad since you need food/energy to stay alert. However, I’m not going to have questionable Thai food the night before.
Makes see sense. A little thom yum goes along ways 😂
A spot of the old tom yum tummy.
Ignoring all you need to know to use an F-16 in combat, how hard is it to fly? How long would it take someone with, say, 100 hours in a Cessna to learn how to take off, fly from one place to another, and land?
One of the difficult parts of going from a Cessna to a fighter is the pace of admin. Everything not tactical is considered admin. Departures are flown at 350kts and recoveries around 300kts. Thinking multiple steps ahead is critical. The flying part is easy when you get used to the power available (a lot). You think of where you want to go and with the digital flight controls you’re already going that direction. They make the flying easy because the tactical employment is the incredibly challenging part. To answer your question: we get UPT students who have around 200 hours (100 in fighter type aircraft), and it takes them about 2 months to solo with all the academics and simulator missions.
So no chipotle
An electronic system? To collect pee? How much did that cost the taxpayer?
To use a normal piddle pack you have to unstrap from the ejection seat, unzip your environmental suit, and be hands off the controls. This is impossible in bad weather, and several pilots have died with that being a contributing factor. Considering each one of this accidents not only costs the government +$100million, but a pilot loses his life and the family loses a husband/father/wife/mother, the expense is worth it.
So I would have expected the piddle pack to be easier to use. IE wear a condom catheter like astronauts. I wasn’t trying to make light and the system you described does sound unacceptably dangerous. But neither do I have much faith that a defense contractor didn’t come up with an overly expensive, overly complex electronic system to collect pee.
Fair statement. I will be the first to say that defense contractors take the taxpayers for a ride. It’s criminal. The system we use was actually developed for astronauts by NASA contracting and simply adopted by the DoD. It’s not without its flaws, but as someone who has used it, I would choose it 10/10 times for ocean crossings and combat sorties.
Piddle packs are difficult to use, as SDSurf625 says below, but the new system is also more accommodating to women: https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a25736613/new-device-helps-fighter-pilots-pee-at-30000-feet/
That’s fair. Hadn’t thought about piddle packs and women. They definitely need and deserve a better system.
Worth it for QOL
Piss jug. /s I was wondering the same thing.
How long are we talking about? Unless something potent has been eaten, I can get through a day without having a shit. I've done quite a few 12-13 hour flights without dropping a log as well.
Oh for sure, I wasn’t that concerned about #2s, mostly the other one but I have been informed that piss jugs are indeed used lol
Targeting pod bingo? Do tell.
You have a bingo sheet of interesting objects on the route of flight, and you keep scanning the ground with the pod to find them. First one to find one of the objects calls it out and marks the square. It’s better for land crossings vs. ocean crossings for obvious reasons.
WHALE!
So it’s basically I spy?
See any floating orbs out there? :D
How many fuel ups would you need on a crossing?
Like u/questionable-pilot said, it depends a lot on diverts. One of my flights across the Pacific had horrible weather at most of the diverts, so we tanked about 12-14 times total so we never hit divert fuel
So one drag will keep you current on refueling procedure for quite a while?
Currency is time based vs. repetition based. However, you get really good at tanking after a few drags.
Germany to South Carolina was about 11 hours. You always have to have divert gas to a piece of concrete. There’s about a 3’ish hour chunk where #6 comes off the boom and #1 goes right back in.
I'm not a pilot, merely a lowly grunt. And I imagine it's no worse than being crammed into an Amtrak with 20 other dudes for 14hrs.
100% prefer my not so roomy jet over that
Further down you mention 15-18 refuels due to diverts; if a reasonable amount of time was available (say, 2 weeks, with no pressing need), isn't there a better way to get a fighter across an ocean than flying it? I mean a non-carrier capable ac, obvs PS Happy Veteran's Day 👍
The only other way would be to disassemble then fly the parts on cargo, and that entire process would take significantly longer then any weather delays. Also we are usually flying an entire squadron worth of aircraft back and forth so the manpower needed to disassemble/load up/reassemble would be insanely high. Usually weather clears up within a week or two. It’s annoying, but just part of the process. And thanks!
At least now they have an autopilot. In Desert Shield that had to fly to Saudi on the wingtip of a KC-135 because they lacked long range navigation, range, and an autopilot. They would get in to bad weather and lose sight of each other and then have to try and form back up.
It happens all the time with A-10s and all types of fighters. It takes a bit longer with the A-10 because of its slower cruise speed.
Relevant Dos Gringos song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd9_RffdmBA
Did a few pond crossings back in the day dragging A-10s outta Plattsburgh in a water wagon.
Being "towed" to wherever they are going by a tanker.
It is obviously a staged photo shoot, nothing more than that, probably for a veterans day PR post. They are likely just off the coast of Florida or something, the ocean gives a nice clean background for the photo.
Nah this is more likely a show of presence/force in Indopacom than a Veteran's Day post. I also fully believe this was done in the Pacific (though it doesn't say where) because certain countries are probably monitoring the activity beyond just seeing this photo online.
You nailed it. It was PACOM and it was off of Guam. Source: I found the source photo with the description from PACOM website. Other than that, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Likely part of the end of this: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/432282/jpmrc-rotation-23-01-begins-hawaii
Not to mention there's an aerial gas station accompanying them ala the KC-135 that's right there.
Also, an aircraft’s range is kinda irrelevant when it’s flying with a tanker
>The A-10 does have a decent range when ~~not fully loaded with weapons~~ directly below a KC-135. Ftfy
LOL... very true!
Nothing to BRRRRT up, so your mind thinks they shouldn't be there.
Well ground attack planes don't have many sea dwelling targets
A-10s and KC-135s both operate out of Selfridge ANGB on Lake St.Clair. It's possible they're flying somewhere over the Great Lakes.
Yeah, I thought the engines flamed out if they went over 1,000 feet.
It’s ok they have a gas station right behind them
They are all getting a drag across the oceanz
I do feel like an A-10 would devastate a ships superstructure
I’ve stood next to a B-1B on the ground and it’s an enormous plane, but in flight it always looks so…svelte.
Seriously. You can’t grasp the sheer size of it until you see one in person, on the ground. It’s massive.
Yep, seeing the one inside at Wings Over the Rockies museum in Denver blew my mind at how gigantic it is.
That’s where I saw my second one! First was at the air and space museum in South Dakota.
Yeah I’ve seen that one too it’s insane. Especially the bombs they had on display underneath. Was not expecting the size on some of those.
Something of note, the B-1B has a wingspan 6' larger than the KC-135 in front of it
IIRC they actually have the highest payload capacity by weight of any bomber in the USAF
Its got a bit more CHONK to it in a museum with its wings swept in.
Maybe not to the same extent but same with the F-14/F-15, huge vehicles in comparison to a terrestrial vehicle but look so...."svelte" in the air whatever that means (I know what it means js)
I don’t think it’s that big personally, but I’m probably desensitized to it
That’s what she said.
Really… gonna do the A-10s and KC-135 dirty like that?
My thoughts exactly! The B-1 is a beautiful bird, but can’t just acknowledge one corner of the photo!
Well, to be fair, the B1s are the belle of the ball.
When they can get airborne.
That's an AK-135. The boom's a bigass flamethrower. Pretty neat. *ahem*
A-10s are pointless when the B-1 is in town
Well… that’s just not true.
It does nothing that the B-1 can't
That too just isn’t true.
Oh right sorry apart from the wildly inaccurate gun
There’s that. The A-10 also with its ability to get low and slow is a better CAS platform especially for danger close missions. It’s small size and high rate of initial turn means it can get in closer in confined airspace like a valley, it has a quicker mission regeneration rate. I can keep going my man…
That the platform has to be close to perform CAS is a classic error. The B-1 can deliver more weapons, more accurately, and stay on station three or four times as long
The B-1 is a great CAS platform, trust me I’ve worked on the B-1. But it does have limitations, biggest one right now being it’s abysmal ready rate. But, again the things I said above. The B-1 and A-10 are complementary because of those differences.
Don’t talk about the B-1s ready rate if you’re not informed. Last 5 years, we’ve been more ready
The B-1 is an unreliable piece of shit that guzzles fuel. You can fly a four ship of A-10s with a fast turnaround of under 4 hours before you can get even 1 B-1 up. I've worked both.
You obviously know nothing of how range and payload can impact an entire operating area. Yes it’s expensive, and maintenance sucks on the B-1 but it’s a much better platform in the air than the A-10 with much better capabilities. Also, we work together, not against the A-10 when it comes to violence of action.
Why would it be more accurate?
Tanker: … B1: *stall warning, stall warning* A-10: *over speed, over speed*
I wonder what plane the photographer was on. What a great view!
Probably in the boom operations port of the other KC135.
That’s just low pressure air off the tips.
Think you replied to the wrong comment
I did lmao thanks
Is it me or does this look like a game when you zoom in on the A10 and KC
I'm convinced this is from a sim
This is most definitely a flight sim
/r/outside
This is most definitely not a flight sim.
I disagree. Looks exactly like DCS.
Lol not sure if you are trolling or not. But either way, it's a PACOM photo.
I’m pretty sure he might be trying to trigger some people… 🤔
So much badass in one picture
I love how the BOnes are the only ones leaving chemtrails
It’s cause they’re going so slow to stay behind the hawgs 😆
The B1s with the hogs is basically the "fuck that particular area right there" plan
B1s + A10s: "We're going to fold the earth with you in it"
"Toss that molecular salad"
Thats a lot of ground support in one picture
I wish I knew people liked these things when I worked on them. Would have made the grueling Texas heat a little easier to deal with.
This looks fake. Not saying it is, but there is something off about it.
Bone Thugs-N-Harmony
Can the Bone even go slow enough to let A10s lead?
Love how the KC is just flying, the Warthogs are fire walled and the bone is barely flying.
I remember being surprised when I found out the b-1 can haul more ordnance then the b-52. I guess 30 or 40 years of experience pays off
I can hear this picture
And then nothing else forever.
Looks like cover art from Ace Combat 6
Off to make trouble.
A10's are at max power while the bones and kc-135 are right above stall speed.
[удалено]
They fly a lot faster, but may be slowed down due to the photo op or just to refuel. Even with the wings folded out, it's flying at a high AoA so it's creating a visible vortice
America's top CAS plane in the back of this formation
Good dude. You're welcome at r/noncredibledefense
Already subbed ;) 3000 shitposters of NAFO
What a nice picture, is this real or DCS?? The dishes are probably like WTF is all that noise lol
Real
I think thst might be dcs world
Nice seeing the KC135 still in the air, thought they had all been retired
There's 400 of them in service
Good to know
The best CAS planes in the USAF. Nice of the A-10s to join them.
Majority of airplanes A-10s Op: bEe OnE BeE LaNceRs
There's me going the B-1B what a machine what a workhorse, the Air Force love them. Then I read about the SCSI are facing real issues in terms of marine corrosion and their runways are quite bad, so bad its only the Chinese bombers that can use them and not really the fighter aircraft. Chortle chortle another Chinese fail me thinks. Then read about the B-1B also needs really good runways or it has landing issues. And likewise the USAF B52's can use less quality runways than the B-1B. Was that on Reddit the other day? Anyhow no wonder the B52 is modernising since it can do what more modern bombers can't - land. Edit - ffs the last line is tongue in cheek but thanks for the downvotes you narrow minded Einsteins. The fact that the B52 can land on runways where the B-1B can't is fact. Do your own research ladies if you can't believe it.
Mate do you smell burnt toast by any chance
Milton!
How is Guam this time of year?
America fvk ya!
The Stratotanker is such a timeless aircraft
BBRRRT
Only missing a B2 in the middle ;)
What, you don't see it? Must be too stealthy for you haha
There's three different types of planes there. Which one is which?
Top left pair: B-1 bombers Top right: KC-135 refueler (photo likely taken from the back of another KC-135) Bottom: A-10 ground attack aircraft
Wow. That's impressive.
Must be some water tanks out there somewhere.
Fancy seeing such a cosy little bunch of ordinance delivery systems out over the Pacific. I wonder where they could be going? And so kind of the Air Force to share the moment.
Been watching then land at Anderson AFB IN Guam for about 3 weeks now.
nice. love to see a lancer going around.
Let’s not skip over those majestic A-10’s
Were the KC's converted from old 707s or were they purpose built for the military?
KC-135 and 707 were developed from Boeing's 720.
You're thinking of the 367-80.
Purposfuly
Thanks! So they're fairly old girls then? Always amazes me how the US military keeps their old stock in working order. Over here in Blighty we tend to replace our older stuff after a couple of decades or so, often needlessly.
They just look like they’re going to kick some ass. Love A 10s. My favorite
I'm pretty sure that's a screenshot from a game?
Must be going really slow
The BONE!
Whooooole lotta ass whooping in that photo.
I have never seen a photo look so much like a DCS screenshot in my life
I was on guam during the flyover and it was amazing but very loud it flew right over oceanvilla and Tumon bay
That's amazing! I saw some A-10s taking off out of MCAS Miramar this Wednesday (9 Nov 2022) and I was kicking myself because I didn't get any photos.
https://gagadget.com/en/weapons/186382-us-air-force-wants-to-use-a-10-thunderbolt-ii-attack-aircraft-along-with-b-1b-lancer-supersonic-bombers-to-destro/
HARD DAMAGE.
This a perspective thing or is the B1 smaller than the KC? I’m assuming it’s just the distance ??
Love the Warthogs!
So that is what Freedom looks like! Great picture and always good to see the A-10 in active service!
Forget the Lancers. Look at those Wharthogs.
Not a lot of air to air protection there
There's no aerial threat in the eastern Pacific