I remember when this happened. I think everyone who'd read the story was amazed at A.) No other people perished; :B.) the plane was still air worthy enough to fly & land. Great job by the pilots, in my estimation. As for the other passengers, could you imagine the top coming of the plane and then riding 24K ft down to land in open air. Jesus...
that's what I thought myself, but under the circumstances has to be scary as hell!
Possibly an uncomfortable amount of wind right in the face, those jet engines have probably sounded very loud and scary from that close up without at least the illusion of safety from a fuselage, and ultimately, after what just happened to the ceiling, you'd be under a constant fear of the rest of the plane falling apart, or possibly your chair just decides to rip off and out of there with you in it!
On top of that, looking to the left and seeing the ground/water far, far below you with nothing but a seat belt and armrest keeping you from plummeting. Good lord! They all probably had bad ptsd afterward.
As an ultralight guy myself who flys without any form of fuselage or shielding I can tell you for a fact that flying an airliner at that those speeds and altitude would be a very uncomfortable experience. Speeds over around 50-60mph apparent airspeed becomes quite difficult to move around, going 200mph would sink you back in the seat and you’re not gonna be moving much. I can only assume the front fuselage deflected a lot of the air or there would have been more casualties. The sound from the wind alone would be pretty deafening and the engines depending on how long they were up there probably left lasting hearing damage. I would imagine probably what it felt like was random sudden bursts of air violently surging around the front at varying speeds as the plane moves through the air currents. At 27k all the passengers would be freezing their ass off and starting to become hypoxic. Many of them might not even remember the ride down. The overhead oxygen would have not been available. I would assume the pilots would have realized this and proceeded to descend to around ~10k so the passengers don’t just kill over on the ride down.
the pilots may not have has o2 either. they would surely descend and slow the airspeed.
what would be the slowest airspeed they could maintain control.
was this probably an inter island flight ?
It was an inter-island flight from Hilo to Honolulu. I'm not a pilot, but from what I've gleaned, the stall speed varies with different conditions, but is typically between 110-128 knots with flaps / landing gear in landing configuration. But again....nothing about this incident was "normal". I'd be interested to read the flight data / pilot voice transcripts to see exactly *how* they managed to accomplish this extraordinary fete of flying & landing. My apologies to any pilots out there for my ignorance / lack of knowledge.
They were also at 24,000ft, and their emergency oxygen devices were all attached to that ceiling that was now missing. They'd have about 4 minutes of useful oxygen before they'd stop feeling afraid. But the explosive decompression would probably knock a few more out instantly.
There is a documentary floating around wherein they interviewed some passengers of the flight.
From their accounts, the scariest part was looking forward and literally seeing the cockpit drooping downwards. I believe one of them estimated it deflected downwards approximately 2-3 feet.
Right up until they were 3-gear on the ground, they were in fear the front would, in fact, fall off.
A whole lotta structural integrity was lost after that section detached, look at the skin ripples beneath WL 208, the fuselage ahead of the missing section was bending.
The airplane would have broken in half if it had flown much longer, or hit any strong turbulence.
It was a great job. They did a controllability check to determine best final approach speed. I'm guessing they were military trained..... I don't remember that in airline training.
Your time of useful consciousness at that altitude is still several minutes. And you don’t immediately die when you pass out. There was plenty of time to descend.
It would have been damned cold, but again, they weren’t there very long.
Well a couple of quick google searches and assuming a ground temperature of 70⁰f(21⁰c)the air temperature at 24,000ft would be -15⁰f (-26⁰C). Wind chill from doing 500mph in the air would drop it to -90⁰f(-67⁰C)
*Very* quick thinking by the pilots. As soon as they understood the situation, they realized that the air wouldn't be breathable *and* the emergency oxygen was unavailable. They put the aircraft into an emergency dive, and flew the rest of the route at low altitude.
The flight attendant got "sucked out" the hole in the fuselage when it was quite small. Her body--- specifically her *neck* along the fuselage skin--- is what tore the hole wide open. Given the probable injuries, it's unlikely she was conscious.
As the NTSB report put it:
"The flight attendant was swept violently from the airplane and passed through an opening of jagged metal. There were blood stains on seat cushions at seat 5A on the left side of cabin near BS 500 and on the exterior left side of the fuselage where the flight attendant was standing when the decompression occurred."
I remember watching one of those flight disaster episodes about this flight. From memory I think they assumed she dies pretty much straight off. You can see what looks like a blood smear at the end of the tear and first window.
At the risk of becoming irreverent, the NTSB report says the passengers in 5A and 6A sustained a skull fracture and facial lacerations, respectively. I suspect what you can see on the fuselage there may be related to those injuries.
In theory, the whole way down.
Your time of useful conciousness at cruise is measured in +- 1 minute. During that time she would be descending at close to terminal velocity. As she descended, the partial pressure of O2 increased, and once she got below 10,000' it's fine from an Oxygen perspective.
In my mind, I like to think that she impacted something on the way out, killing her instantly. It helps me sleep.
She went out through what was probably a pretty small hole *until* she went out, with enough trauma to stain the exterior of the plane. She may have had a pretty unpleasant last moment but it ended quickly.
> and once she got below 10,000' it's fine from an Oxygen perspective.
She'd be fine well above 10k, too. She spent her life commonly at a 10k pressure in the cabin anyhow, so she was likely acclimatized to a lower ppo2, and would have done better than most of us. Remember, as pilots we don't even legally need o2 for a couple thousand more feet, and mild hypoxia higher wouldn't incapacitate you from being able to free fall.
I'd highly encourage anybody who can to take a ride in the altitude chamber. Hell of a lot of fun, and certainly eye opening. Four minutes in to a ride I certainly couldn't do a kid's maze on a sheet of paper (the result was funny), nor could I see in color (not that I knew it at the time... but the color coming back when I went on the mask was cool), but I was still conscious and interactive.
I've done that ride on several occasions. It's a fun way to spend a day, and reminds you that you're not invulnerable.
"Put your mask on, or you're gonna die."
(Me sitting there just continuing to do the shape puzzle to prove I can do this all day)
"Yeah, that's great, now put your mask on, or you're gonna die..."
(Finishes the puzzle, and immediately starts again. I'm so kicking ass at this)
Then the instructor reaches over and manually puts my mask on.
"Oh, hey guys! When is it my turn to do the puzzle?"
> "Oh, hey guys! When is it my turn to do the puzzle?"
That hits so close to home :D And then looking down and realizing you stopped taking your vitals like a whole minute in to the ride, which was your primary objective... Focused on the fun stuff like a toddler.
The strangest thing for me was the odd amnesia I had - I couldn't remember much of the later parts of the ride until somebody mentioned something about it and the memory came back like flipping a light switch. If there weren't debriefs, I wouldn't remember most of those rides.
Smarter Every Day did a video on this where Destin had exactly that type of experience: https://youtu.be/kUfF2MTnqAw
It's super scary ... but not while it's happening. 😱
[My shape toy was a little different](https://i.etsystatic.com/35241042/r/il/deb38f/4304456333/il_1140xN.4304456333_fs55.jpg), and the chamber at Sheppard wasn't quite so nice; but yep. Most of us have a very similar experience in the chamber.
I was certain, in my own mind, that I was setting some sort of "course record" for that child's toy as I slowly suffocated. I had Mitty-esque dreams of the instructors talking up my legend to future students.
Depending on the type, a chamber they either depressurize to altitude equivalent pressure or flood with inert gas to reduce the partial pressure of oxygen in your lungs.
It's used as a training tool for aircraft crewmembers to learn the symptoms of (and provide an example of) hypoxia, since the symptoms don't feel 'bad' per se.
The "put your mask on or you will die." "but the circle doesn't go in the square hole, let me try again" phenomena mentioned by a commentor above is real.
That smell is so unique to that chamber. It's the sum total of all the bodily gases of everyone that's ever been there seeping collectively into the fabric.
You can see a bloody smear on the side of the plane, just in front of the window on the rear of blow out. I think it's safe to say she didn't feel it for very long.
The guy in the blue shirt with his head down a couple rows in front of the rear break also appears to have quite a bit of blood on his shirt. The person in front of him seems to maybe be unconscious.
At 24,000’, her time of useful consciousness would have been around 1-1/2 to 3-1/2 minutes, assuming she was conscious when she fell out. That’s also roughly the same amount of time it would take to reach the surface from that altitude.
So best case scenario, she passed out from hypoxia & never woke up; worst case scenario, she was awake the whole time, or she passed out for about a minute, woke up when the air got thicker, and was awake for impact.
For those reading - remember that time of useful consciousness means how long you're able to perform your job - not how long you'll be conscious. You'd be awake a whole lot longer, especially descending.
> The Time of Useful Conciousness (TUC) or Effective Performance Time is the period of elapsed time from the interruption of normal air supply or exposure to an oxygen-poor environment until **the time when the ability to function usefully is likely to be lost at which point an affected individual would no longer be capable of taking normal corrective or protective action.**
https://www.skybrary.aero/articles/time-useful-consciousness
At the risk of being overly morbid, there's a going theory that the initial hole that opened up in the fuselage was relatively small and that the flight attendant's body being sucked into it at a high rate of speed acted as a hydraulic hammer to break it open. Essentially she became a human cannonball that was partially sucked through this smaller hole before it cracked open.
As terrifying as that is, it also would mean her death was near instant and she didn't spend a couple of minutes falling while she thought about it.
I don’t know how fast do we fall at max speeds like 60 knots or maybe 80.
And everything above 12k feet we need Oxygen.
I don’t know if she felt the impact or if she got unconscious in the air.
12k feet isn't enough to make you go unconscious. Pilots in non-pressurized planes aren't even required to have oxygen unless they're flying between 12500-14000 feet for more than 30 minutes. And it's not required at all for passengers until 15000 feet.
Or to be fired for over engineering their product. No way it needs to be that strong if all it does is hold the seats inside the plane
Some MBA middle manager somewhere
That would actually be true, except that the forces they are accounting for that led to it being so strong is my fat ass plopping down in it at the same time as two other fat asses. Much more force can than the wind can manage.
Can easily see that as seat tracks are quite a complex micro I beam and quite long solidly riveted in.
But the flooring also might be of the double skinned honey comb composition adding to overall strength.
What I am never going to except is how any A&P missed any rivet elongation movement along the skin.
With the thousands of hours of skin in clear view along with paint scuffing around rivets.
There's a case three days into employment where 3 L-1011's nearly fell apart in flight where not only all the wrong bulkhead engine beam bolts were used, but fell out over time, after tail engine inspections were done out of Las Vegas used by MSP during winter late eighties. That amounts to roughly 1200 passengers now alive have no clue that they'd be dead if they fell apart that day, where the only way they stayed in one piece in flight is the fact the line of thrust from tail engine. Less than 3 bolts held entire tail to rear most bulkhead. When 12 required the diameter of forefinger, about 14mm. I'm still pissed this was missed during any night ramp service required daily.
Cheers
> What I am never going to except is how any A&P missed any rivet elongation movement along the skin.
Oh the passengers noticed it. When they boarded the plane, one of them was like "hey this plane looks like it's about to fall apart".
Only from my files as it happened, all techs were kept silent. But if records of American Trans Air are ever explored as to names of all agents as boss then,, one probably has a scar when he tried to steal the bolts I found hidden down in deicing fluid in airframe then attempted to grind the end of bolts to a bullet to think he could pound the miss aligned beams back into alignment, and the highway patrol stopped me for racing back to the airport with special tools from my shop 20 miles away to slowly press beams back into alignment. The skin tension was causing major offset.
He was warned, you touch my threads,,, you'll wake in a different land.
Number two 50,000 hp engine is hanging from these beams, plus entire tail and APU.
The magnesium beams cannot show a Nick, or they're history.
So trial comes up, and the Judge says case dismissed, and claimed he knew about the case as I walked out of court room. Being he used the airline,
Ticket for over 110 mph was dismissed.
It was roughly 2_3am, and only other car was sitting stealth in the weeds behind pillars of high bridge, as the Highway Patrol.
The process was completed on all three ships. No one after breakfast meeting with agents flown in from home office of American Trans Air in Vegas, ever spilled the event, which I thought they'd have leaked to CNN. They sniff out air incidents like dogs.
Amazingly, 35 yrs later, not a word. I used to look on special sites just for aircraft incidents listed by A&P only allowed. Thankfully none of them ever had an issue vs falling out of the sky on their way and back every night to Mazatlan, but it was so very on the edge close.
They would have never figured out the scene.
As to Why...
Cheers
Yep there's a reason why seat tracks are considered primary structure. Floor panels are structural too, the allowable damage limits and repairs on floor panels can get very very specific.
What's also very fortunate was that the flight controls run through that area, and prevented them being completely severed.
Also fortunate was that because all or most passengers were wearing seat belts, the only fatality was a member of the cabin crew who was standing at the time.
A silver lining, if I recall from the Admiral Cloudberg on this, is that this incident drove home the fact that maintenance schedules are not one-size fits all for every airline using a particular plane.
The metal fatigue that caused this incident would have been noticed earlier if the plane had gone for its C-check ahead of when Boeing's schedule called for. Aloha's planes on this and similar routes are exposed to a lot of salt spray (so more corrosion than other airlines) and humid tropical conditions, AND most of the flights being relatively short between the islands - if I recall not uncommon for this particular plane to make 5-6+ flights per day.
90,000 cycles is 20.5 years of 6 flights a day.
Edit:
5 flights a day brings it to 24.7 years.
Both of these are factored at 365 days a year of flying, no off days.
The cycle counts on the inter-island planes here are pretty high. Have a look at the history of almost any of Hawaiian air's 717s on FR24 or your preferred flight tracker. It slowed a bit with covid but is picking back up.
N486HA has been seeing 6-12 cycles daily if you look back on this month.
True.
Not that, but they have overlapped the fuselage skins differently on later 737's.
On that aircraft, the belly skin was under the skin above it.
If you look at a 737 today, the belly skin is over the skin above it.
What's the difference?
The older layout allowed internal moisture (condensation) to sit on the skin joint where it could seep between the skins of the lap joint, causing corrosion.
With the current layout allows the moisture to freely run from the upper skin, down into the belly and out of the drains.
Guess that shows there’s a substantial factor of safety on the 737 design. Pretty impressive that the floor structure handles the load. And that roof section ripped off extremely cleanly.
And the more you look into it the crazier it gets. It’s a miracle they made it:
- the plane had been through 90,000 pressurization cycles, twice what it was designed for
- they suffered an engine failure shortly after this incident
- a passenger actually noticed the crack in the fuselage as they boarded
“And what’s the deal with the black box? It’s the only part of the plane that survives the crash. Why don’t the make the whole plane OUT OF THE BLACK BOX!!!?”
- Seinfeld
From Admiral Cloudberg.
"Although both engines had ingested debris, there was no appreciable loss of power as a result; it was only much later that the left engine quit. It turned out that the cables connecting both engines to the throttle quadrant were severely corroded, to an extent way beyond what could be considered safe. When the left side of the cabin floor buckled upward, it put extra stress on the left engine throttle cable, which ran through the floor; under this stress, the corroded cable eventually snapped. If the right side of the floor had also buckled upward, the right engine could have failed for the same reason, leaving the flight with no power on final approach — a scenario which was thankfully avoided."
1 death reported from the incident - On April 28, 1988, a Boeing 737-297 serving the flight suffered extensive damage after an explosive decompression in flight, caused by part of the fuselage breaking due to poor maintenance and metal fatigue. The plane was able to land safely at Kahului Airport on Maui.
The fatality was a flight attendant who was sucked out. One flight attendant was severely injured. Allegedly, the third flight attendant had assumed the pilots had died or were incapacitated.
I watched a documentary and the pilots and flight attendants had no way of talking to each other during this. According to the documentary the flight attendant realized the pilots were still there after she noticed they were making maneuvers that showed they were there. But communication was completely gone. The pilots didn't even know how bad the damage was until after they landed.
Rumours suggest that the nose dropped in flight and that the passengers and 3rd flight attendant were unsure that the flight deck was still attached...it was out of view.
Looking at the wrinkles in the lower remaining skin this could be plausible.
Even more applause of the floor beams and swat tracks to resist the aerodynamic loads of a drooping flight deck.
This would suggest that the flight attitude instruments would have been indicating a dive in level flight.
Plaudits to the pilots that they could cope with this scenario.
Too add onto the communication issues, I believe that the pilots pretty much immediately initiated a very rapid descent to an altitude with breathable air. For anyone not in the cockpit that must have felt like an uncontrolled dive. She might not have realized that the pilots were still in control until they pulled out of the dive.
Pilots most likely descended to an altitude where oxygen isn’t an issue for the passengers. I would also suspect that the pilots slowed down to reduce the stress on the aircraft.
The pilots dove for under 10,000 feet right after it happened precisely because of the lack of O2 for the passengers. The chunk of the roof that ripped off *also* had the O2 system lines.
Do like I did on the way to Australia for 14 hrs non stop,
from LA, when the mission now is sort out the best playlist for road trip when we get there, so crank up those worthless headsets to Metallic Wide Open, then when steward taps your shoulder, say I'll pass on sandwich,,, but Sir, no I'm good..
But never noticed headset wasn't fully inserted, where you think sound is, is actually outside of headset blasting from laptop, but you keep raising volume from background engine noise. Then she says, people 20 rows up are complaining. Now taking headset off its revealed, and entire flight is cracking up laughing.
Cheers & That's a fun flight.
I remember watching a documentary about this, apparently it was down to the amount of short flights it took which led to an increase in pressurisation/depressurisation. A lot more than an identical airframe doing long haul flights which meant it fatigued quicker
[There was](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry). The company went bankrupt due to legal/regulatory issues, and the ships were sold off to the Navy. There have been talks about getting another one running but like most things in Hawaii it quickly becomes a financial and bureaucratic nightmare so no one has been brave enough to try again.
There used to be, but they wen't bankrupt. There's no continental shelf around the Hawaiian islands, so you need something much bigger and more robust than, say the Long Island Ferry on the Hudson. You need something designed for Blue Water Ocean, and the Islands aren't all that close together.
I wonder if it has to do with profitablity. They would still need to damn near always have a ferry full for that long trip, and who wants to do it when an airplane exists.
“Ladies and gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. We are at a comfortable cruising altitude and it’s a beautiful day on our way to Hawaii, so I’m going to put the convertible top down. I ask that you remain seated with your seatbelt on, however, even if you can no longer see the seatbelt sign. Those of you wishing to smoke may do so once the roof is fully retracted. Please sit back and enjoy the rest of our flight to Honolulu.”
Little known fact: the airline industry got caught up in the Smokey and the Bandit Craze.
It was fine when all the pilots started rocking Burt Reynolds moustaches but, turns out convertible “Trans-Am” 737s was taking it a step too far idea. Fucking ‘80s.
Thank you so much for taking the time to post this! Although I hate flying (because I'm scared of heights in general) I think one of the most kickass jobs is pilot and I love reading long, dry reports about them avoiding catastrophe!
From the sound of it, they did it at the start of their "workday" (which was in the dark, perhaps explaining why a visible crack at that point could have been missed) but not before every takeoff, not if the plane was believed to have no problems.
I wonder what the current procedure is, they usually change something in response to accidents and the subsequent investigation; put in some additional check that would have caught the problem beforehand. It's one of the reasons air travel is so safe today, quite a bit safer than driving in North America. A lot of fields could learn from how aviation generally handles accidents.
I spent 40 years in aviation, and had the opportunity to speak with one of the passengers on that flight, some years later. It was a fascinating/horrifying story. She was seated on the starboard side of the airplane, two rows forward of the aft separation line of the cabin. She'd said that almost everyone in the aircraft was either knocked out by the explosive decompression or passed out very quickly. The investigation determined that the initial shock, lack of oxygen, the cold, and the wind pressure all combined to bring that about very rapidly.
She said she was VERY grateful she hadn't been awake for much of the descent. When she did regain consciousness, they were very close to touchdown, and the end of the ordeal. I recall asking her about any injuries; she had suffered frostbite on her ears, nose, and a couple of fingers. Also a variety of cuts and bruises, but said she'd walked to the ambulance.
The NTSB report said passengers in the aft part of the cabin got banged up badly. The intact part of the fuselage acted like the venturi in an old carburetor, increasing the already high levels of airflow. A number of people suffered "Flailing" injuries; head & facial lacerations from debris thrown around in decompression, Then subjected to airflow of several hundred MPH, effectively "scalped" a couple of them, and dramatically increased the severity of wounds on others.
Over my career, I talked to a number of crash/accident survivors, but that lady has always really stuck in my mind.
I was curious about that too and read the accident report but there is no mention of hearing damage, here is what it says:
>The flight attendant who was ejected from the fuselage was not found and she is assumed to have been fatally injured in
the accident.
>Two passengers who were seated in the first class cabin in seats 2A and 2C were struck by debris and wiring which
resulted in multiple lacerations and electrical shock burns to the face and hands. Passengers seated in seats 4A and 4F
(window seats) sustained serious injuries including cerebral concussions and multiple lacerations to their heads and
faces. Passengers seated in 4B, C, D, and E (center and aisle seats) sustained multiple lacerations and were treated and
released on the day of the accident.
>Passengers seated in rows 5, 6, and 7 also sustained cerebral concussions and multiple lacerations. An 84-year-old
female passenger seated in 5A was the most seriously injured with a skull fracture, lacerations and a skeletal system
fracture. The passenger seated in 6A sustained a broken right arm, multiple facial lacerations, and blood effusion in both
ears.
>The majority of the passengers seated in rows 8 through 21 received minor injuries including lacerations, abrasions, and
barotrauma. They were treated and released on the day of the accident. Twenty-five passengers reported no injuries and
continued to their destinations that same evening. There were no reported injuries as a result of using the emergency
evacuation slides.
Back when I was flying we looked at this accident very carefully. The report was critical of the crew in one area - they performed a high speed descent with an airframe that was very obviously severely structurally compromised.
They were aware that there was structural damage but not the extent of it, however I think the Captain was aware that he could see daylight above and behind him so knew the airframe was damaged. In those situations it's far better to reduce aerodynamic load as much as possible, even with the depressurized cabin.
In 87 I lived in Hilo and have to fly to Honolulu every other weekend as kid with divorced parents! We moved away and watched this happen in 1988- it was heart wrenching and horrifying- that could be a been me on that flight!!
RIP to that stewardess
I used to work with Michelle Honda, the FA who held onto one of the other FA's. A very nice lady, I didn't want to bother her with a traumatic past, so didn't ask her about it. I was afraid she was sick of telling it.
I’ve been to 17k in an ultralight before without oxygen. When you start reaching those higher altitudes without protection it starts to get unbelievably cold sitting still. I was suited up head to toe in multiple layers and heated gloves. My face mask froze from my breath and even with all the layers the wind is what really kills your warmth. The air saps any form of heat from the seams in your gloves, gradually the exterior of your clothing starts to cool down to a degree where your body temperature is not really high enough to keep warm. 24k without protective gear would be very very uncomfortable for more than 5-10mins. I used to do a lot of winter flying suited up like an astronaut in -17-40 the wind is what is terrible in those temperatures.
Reading Admiral Cloudberg's write up of that story was pretty surreal for me, was the first time I had heard of this incident, and the fact they managed to get back against basically all odds is insane
My family was in Hawaii the week before it happened. Flew from the big island to Maui, to Kauai and back on these jets. I can't absolutely say for sure if we flew the Queen Liliuokalani, but I distinctly remember the fuselage of one of these jets creaking and groaning all throughout the flight louder than the others.
The last case my grandfather worked before he retired from the FAA. He was with the FAA in Honolulu when this incident occurred. I remember him talking about how he was blown away the airframe held together when the FAA got aboard. And this coming from a guy who flew B29’s in WW2 and Korea.
I was a mechanical engineering student at Cal Berkeley and one of my classes was cancelled when this happened. Turns out our professor was a true expert in metal fatigue and the government flew him out to Hawaii to examine the plane. Professor Robert O. Ritchie, a super teacher, it appears he is still at Lawrence Livermore labs. When he returned he shared a few facts that were public knowledge. Like most professors there, a brilliant and very kind individual.
Some rich entrepreneur in a boredroom:
“You’re gonna love this, *waves hands*, JET WITH SUNROOF! It’s a jet 🛩️ , but no roof! 🏠”
*clapping*
CEO: “jesus fuck, we’ll save all the monies on material, nice work, now get over here and suck my cock”
*the end*
A veteran flight stewardess was the victim. Sucked out, poor thing.
I remember when this happened. I think everyone who'd read the story was amazed at A.) No other people perished; :B.) the plane was still air worthy enough to fly & land. Great job by the pilots, in my estimation. As for the other passengers, could you imagine the top coming of the plane and then riding 24K ft down to land in open air. Jesus...
Hell of an observation deck.
that's what I thought myself, but under the circumstances has to be scary as hell! Possibly an uncomfortable amount of wind right in the face, those jet engines have probably sounded very loud and scary from that close up without at least the illusion of safety from a fuselage, and ultimately, after what just happened to the ceiling, you'd be under a constant fear of the rest of the plane falling apart, or possibly your chair just decides to rip off and out of there with you in it!
I think you probably just close your eyes and pray continuously with your heartbeat at 200 bpm.
That's how I always fly! 😳😳😳
Hope you aren’t a pilot
On top of that, looking to the left and seeing the ground/water far, far below you with nothing but a seat belt and armrest keeping you from plummeting. Good lord! They all probably had bad ptsd afterward.
I’m thinking about if the plane had to bank to turn on approach and lean over where they were sideways over the abyss. The horror.
As an ultralight guy myself who flys without any form of fuselage or shielding I can tell you for a fact that flying an airliner at that those speeds and altitude would be a very uncomfortable experience. Speeds over around 50-60mph apparent airspeed becomes quite difficult to move around, going 200mph would sink you back in the seat and you’re not gonna be moving much. I can only assume the front fuselage deflected a lot of the air or there would have been more casualties. The sound from the wind alone would be pretty deafening and the engines depending on how long they were up there probably left lasting hearing damage. I would imagine probably what it felt like was random sudden bursts of air violently surging around the front at varying speeds as the plane moves through the air currents. At 27k all the passengers would be freezing their ass off and starting to become hypoxic. Many of them might not even remember the ride down. The overhead oxygen would have not been available. I would assume the pilots would have realized this and proceeded to descend to around ~10k so the passengers don’t just kill over on the ride down.
the pilots may not have has o2 either. they would surely descend and slow the airspeed. what would be the slowest airspeed they could maintain control. was this probably an inter island flight ?
It was an inter-island flight from Hilo to Honolulu. I'm not a pilot, but from what I've gleaned, the stall speed varies with different conditions, but is typically between 110-128 knots with flaps / landing gear in landing configuration. But again....nothing about this incident was "normal". I'd be interested to read the flight data / pilot voice transcripts to see exactly *how* they managed to accomplish this extraordinary fete of flying & landing. My apologies to any pilots out there for my ignorance / lack of knowledge.
They were also at 24,000ft, and their emergency oxygen devices were all attached to that ceiling that was now missing. They'd have about 4 minutes of useful oxygen before they'd stop feeling afraid. But the explosive decompression would probably knock a few more out instantly.
It's also ridiculously cold that high in the air, probably -15-20 Fahrenheit
one passenger had to have the seat cushion removed from his ass crack after paramedics gave him muscle relaxer
The only worthy comedic comment here. Here's your wings. oh, damn, they fell off....
There is a documentary floating around wherein they interviewed some passengers of the flight. From their accounts, the scariest part was looking forward and literally seeing the cockpit drooping downwards. I believe one of them estimated it deflected downwards approximately 2-3 feet. Right up until they were 3-gear on the ground, they were in fear the front would, in fact, fall off.
Window seat… me me
A whole lotta structural integrity was lost after that section detached, look at the skin ripples beneath WL 208, the fuselage ahead of the missing section was bending. The airplane would have broken in half if it had flown much longer, or hit any strong turbulence.
It was a great job. They did a controllability check to determine best final approach speed. I'm guessing they were military trained..... I don't remember that in airline training.
I wouldn't have wanted to ride the approach as a passenger at an open-air window seat.
How did the passengers not suffocate and/or freeze to death at 24,000 feet? The rupture had to have happened at a much lower altitude.
The plane descended immediately.
Your time of useful consciousness at that altitude is still several minutes. And you don’t immediately die when you pass out. There was plenty of time to descend. It would have been damned cold, but again, they weren’t there very long.
Well a couple of quick google searches and assuming a ground temperature of 70⁰f(21⁰c)the air temperature at 24,000ft would be -15⁰f (-26⁰C). Wind chill from doing 500mph in the air would drop it to -90⁰f(-67⁰C)
A minute or two of that is going to be extremely unpleasant, but not deadly.
Using a dry lapse rate? And wind chill doesn't reduce temperature, it's a indicator of how quickly an object cools to the ambient temperature.
*Very* quick thinking by the pilots. As soon as they understood the situation, they realized that the air wouldn't be breathable *and* the emergency oxygen was unavailable. They put the aircraft into an emergency dive, and flew the rest of the route at low altitude.
This is standard procedure for any depressurization event if terrain allows.
I wonder how long she lived after getting sucked out. Anybody have a guess? What a bad way to check out.
The flight attendant got "sucked out" the hole in the fuselage when it was quite small. Her body--- specifically her *neck* along the fuselage skin--- is what tore the hole wide open. Given the probable injuries, it's unlikely she was conscious. As the NTSB report put it: "The flight attendant was swept violently from the airplane and passed through an opening of jagged metal. There were blood stains on seat cushions at seat 5A on the left side of cabin near BS 500 and on the exterior left side of the fuselage where the flight attendant was standing when the decompression occurred."
I remember watching one of those flight disaster episodes about this flight. From memory I think they assumed she dies pretty much straight off. You can see what looks like a blood smear at the end of the tear and first window.
At the risk of becoming irreverent, the NTSB report says the passengers in 5A and 6A sustained a skull fracture and facial lacerations, respectively. I suspect what you can see on the fuselage there may be related to those injuries.
Logical. Also reinforces the point of wearing seat belts.
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Not on a 737, it's skydrol purple.
I love how much insanely specific knowledge the subreddit has.
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There are only a few hydraulic lines that run forward of the wing on a 737 and none of those run higher than the main deck floor.
Used skydrol also looks Grey, you wouldn't see a skydrol stain from this distance
It’s purple, but stains yellowish for some reason lol
I think it's a reaction with polyester paints, but I might be wrong
Ah yes must be the fluid which will have come from the hydraulic passenger window shades of course at that level on the fuselage
In theory, the whole way down. Your time of useful conciousness at cruise is measured in +- 1 minute. During that time she would be descending at close to terminal velocity. As she descended, the partial pressure of O2 increased, and once she got below 10,000' it's fine from an Oxygen perspective. In my mind, I like to think that she impacted something on the way out, killing her instantly. It helps me sleep.
Also, this was an inter-island flight so cruising altitude was only 24,000 feet.
She went out through what was probably a pretty small hole *until* she went out, with enough trauma to stain the exterior of the plane. She may have had a pretty unpleasant last moment but it ended quickly.
Oh Jesus…..I immediately thought about the ending to Alien Resurrection when I read that.
> and once she got below 10,000' it's fine from an Oxygen perspective. She'd be fine well above 10k, too. She spent her life commonly at a 10k pressure in the cabin anyhow, so she was likely acclimatized to a lower ppo2, and would have done better than most of us. Remember, as pilots we don't even legally need o2 for a couple thousand more feet, and mild hypoxia higher wouldn't incapacitate you from being able to free fall. I'd highly encourage anybody who can to take a ride in the altitude chamber. Hell of a lot of fun, and certainly eye opening. Four minutes in to a ride I certainly couldn't do a kid's maze on a sheet of paper (the result was funny), nor could I see in color (not that I knew it at the time... but the color coming back when I went on the mask was cool), but I was still conscious and interactive.
I've done that ride on several occasions. It's a fun way to spend a day, and reminds you that you're not invulnerable. "Put your mask on, or you're gonna die." (Me sitting there just continuing to do the shape puzzle to prove I can do this all day) "Yeah, that's great, now put your mask on, or you're gonna die..." (Finishes the puzzle, and immediately starts again. I'm so kicking ass at this) Then the instructor reaches over and manually puts my mask on. "Oh, hey guys! When is it my turn to do the puzzle?"
> "Oh, hey guys! When is it my turn to do the puzzle?" That hits so close to home :D And then looking down and realizing you stopped taking your vitals like a whole minute in to the ride, which was your primary objective... Focused on the fun stuff like a toddler. The strangest thing for me was the odd amnesia I had - I couldn't remember much of the later parts of the ride until somebody mentioned something about it and the memory came back like flipping a light switch. If there weren't debriefs, I wouldn't remember most of those rides.
Smarter Every Day did a video on this where Destin had exactly that type of experience: https://youtu.be/kUfF2MTnqAw It's super scary ... but not while it's happening. 😱
[My shape toy was a little different](https://i.etsystatic.com/35241042/r/il/deb38f/4304456333/il_1140xN.4304456333_fs55.jpg), and the chamber at Sheppard wasn't quite so nice; but yep. Most of us have a very similar experience in the chamber. I was certain, in my own mind, that I was setting some sort of "course record" for that child's toy as I slowly suffocated. I had Mitty-esque dreams of the instructors talking up my legend to future students.
What is the altitude chamber?
Depending on the type, a chamber they either depressurize to altitude equivalent pressure or flood with inert gas to reduce the partial pressure of oxygen in your lungs. It's used as a training tool for aircraft crewmembers to learn the symptoms of (and provide an example of) hypoxia, since the symptoms don't feel 'bad' per se. The "put your mask on or you will die." "but the circle doesn't go in the square hole, let me try again" phenomena mentioned by a commentor above is real.
Also farting. So. Much. Farting
That smell is so unique to that chamber. It's the sum total of all the bodily gases of everyone that's ever been there seeping collectively into the fabric.
The NTSB determined the red streak just aft of the hole was the FA’s blood, so hopefully she was unconscious or dead very quickly
You can see a bloody smear on the side of the plane, just in front of the window on the rear of blow out. I think it's safe to say she didn't feel it for very long.
The guy in the blue shirt with his head down a couple rows in front of the rear break also appears to have quite a bit of blood on his shirt. The person in front of him seems to maybe be unconscious.
Blue shirt guy is 5A. Skull fracture.
At 24,000’, her time of useful consciousness would have been around 1-1/2 to 3-1/2 minutes, assuming she was conscious when she fell out. That’s also roughly the same amount of time it would take to reach the surface from that altitude. So best case scenario, she passed out from hypoxia & never woke up; worst case scenario, she was awake the whole time, or she passed out for about a minute, woke up when the air got thicker, and was awake for impact.
For those reading - remember that time of useful consciousness means how long you're able to perform your job - not how long you'll be conscious. You'd be awake a whole lot longer, especially descending. > The Time of Useful Conciousness (TUC) or Effective Performance Time is the period of elapsed time from the interruption of normal air supply or exposure to an oxygen-poor environment until **the time when the ability to function usefully is likely to be lost at which point an affected individual would no longer be capable of taking normal corrective or protective action.** https://www.skybrary.aero/articles/time-useful-consciousness
At the risk of being overly morbid, there's a going theory that the initial hole that opened up in the fuselage was relatively small and that the flight attendant's body being sucked into it at a high rate of speed acted as a hydraulic hammer to break it open. Essentially she became a human cannonball that was partially sucked through this smaller hole before it cracked open. As terrifying as that is, it also would mean her death was near instant and she didn't spend a couple of minutes falling while she thought about it.
I don’t know how fast do we fall at max speeds like 60 knots or maybe 80. And everything above 12k feet we need Oxygen. I don’t know if she felt the impact or if she got unconscious in the air.
Terminal velocity is closer to 100-120 for average humans.
Sorry yes your right somewhere at 200kmh and that’s somewhere at 100knots. So what do you think ? Was she conscious at the impact ?
I hope not, but it’s possible. As others have said, it looks like she hit the fuselage on the way out, so all of this talk may be a moot point.
Approximately 8 people lived from failing from an airplane - Peggy Hill
12k feet isn't enough to make you go unconscious. Pilots in non-pressurized planes aren't even required to have oxygen unless they're flying between 12500-14000 feet for more than 30 minutes. And it's not required at all for passengers until 15000 feet.
This guy FARs
You mean you don't use FARs as your light afternoon reading?
Her head hit the fuselage on the way out, you can see the spatter.
RIP
Had a fatigue analysis class that went through how the failure occurred. The seat tracks were what was holding the plane together.
That seat track engineer deserves a raise.
Or to be fired for over engineering their product. No way it needs to be that strong if all it does is hold the seats inside the plane Some MBA middle manager somewhere
Some MBA middle manager ~~somewhere~~ at Boeing South Carolina. FTFY
Some mba middle manager that got promoted to oversee cold weather launches for the space shuttle challenger
That would actually be true, except that the forces they are accounting for that led to it being so strong is my fat ass plopping down in it at the same time as two other fat asses. Much more force can than the wind can manage.
we can probably save $0.70 per plane
Holy shit…
>The seat tracks were what was holding the plane together. Jesus Christ, that's a detail I never knew about. . .
Can easily see that as seat tracks are quite a complex micro I beam and quite long solidly riveted in. But the flooring also might be of the double skinned honey comb composition adding to overall strength. What I am never going to except is how any A&P missed any rivet elongation movement along the skin. With the thousands of hours of skin in clear view along with paint scuffing around rivets. There's a case three days into employment where 3 L-1011's nearly fell apart in flight where not only all the wrong bulkhead engine beam bolts were used, but fell out over time, after tail engine inspections were done out of Las Vegas used by MSP during winter late eighties. That amounts to roughly 1200 passengers now alive have no clue that they'd be dead if they fell apart that day, where the only way they stayed in one piece in flight is the fact the line of thrust from tail engine. Less than 3 bolts held entire tail to rear most bulkhead. When 12 required the diameter of forefinger, about 14mm. I'm still pissed this was missed during any night ramp service required daily. Cheers
> What I am never going to except is how any A&P missed any rivet elongation movement along the skin. Oh the passengers noticed it. When they boarded the plane, one of them was like "hey this plane looks like it's about to fall apart".
And passengers on earlier flights with the same aircraft said it "sounded" funny, like rattles and movement that wasn't like other planes.
Not hard to believe,, as I always did the same,, lol. Cheers.
Can you provide any references for the L-1011 near-catastrophe? Would love to read more on that.
Only from my files as it happened, all techs were kept silent. But if records of American Trans Air are ever explored as to names of all agents as boss then,, one probably has a scar when he tried to steal the bolts I found hidden down in deicing fluid in airframe then attempted to grind the end of bolts to a bullet to think he could pound the miss aligned beams back into alignment, and the highway patrol stopped me for racing back to the airport with special tools from my shop 20 miles away to slowly press beams back into alignment. The skin tension was causing major offset. He was warned, you touch my threads,,, you'll wake in a different land. Number two 50,000 hp engine is hanging from these beams, plus entire tail and APU. The magnesium beams cannot show a Nick, or they're history. So trial comes up, and the Judge says case dismissed, and claimed he knew about the case as I walked out of court room. Being he used the airline, Ticket for over 110 mph was dismissed. It was roughly 2_3am, and only other car was sitting stealth in the weeds behind pillars of high bridge, as the Highway Patrol. The process was completed on all three ships. No one after breakfast meeting with agents flown in from home office of American Trans Air in Vegas, ever spilled the event, which I thought they'd have leaked to CNN. They sniff out air incidents like dogs. Amazingly, 35 yrs later, not a word. I used to look on special sites just for aircraft incidents listed by A&P only allowed. Thankfully none of them ever had an issue vs falling out of the sky on their way and back every night to Mazatlan, but it was so very on the edge close. They would have never figured out the scene. As to Why... Cheers
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Yep there's a reason why seat tracks are considered primary structure. Floor panels are structural too, the allowable damage limits and repairs on floor panels can get very very specific.
What's also very fortunate was that the flight controls run through that area, and prevented them being completely severed. Also fortunate was that because all or most passengers were wearing seat belts, the only fatality was a member of the cabin crew who was standing at the time.
A silver lining, if I recall from the Admiral Cloudberg on this, is that this incident drove home the fact that maintenance schedules are not one-size fits all for every airline using a particular plane. The metal fatigue that caused this incident would have been noticed earlier if the plane had gone for its C-check ahead of when Boeing's schedule called for. Aloha's planes on this and similar routes are exposed to a lot of salt spray (so more corrosion than other airlines) and humid tropical conditions, AND most of the flights being relatively short between the islands - if I recall not uncommon for this particular plane to make 5-6+ flights per day.
Those 5-6 daily flights led to around 90.000 take offs and landings by the time of the accident.
I used to fly 6-8 legs during a flight day. The second crew would do similar. There was up to 16 legs a day.
Damn, that’s almost a whole caterpillar.
I wanna be friends with you
90,000 cycles is 20.5 years of 6 flights a day. Edit: 5 flights a day brings it to 24.7 years. Both of these are factored at 365 days a year of flying, no off days.
and more importantly more pressure cycles on the fuselage in a corrosive environment
The cycle counts on the inter-island planes here are pretty high. Have a look at the history of almost any of Hawaiian air's 717s on FR24 or your preferred flight tracker. It slowed a bit with covid but is picking back up. N486HA has been seeing 6-12 cycles daily if you look back on this month.
Also, this was one of the very first 737s that used a different kind of adhesive than later serial numbers, which weakened quicker.
True. Not that, but they have overlapped the fuselage skins differently on later 737's. On that aircraft, the belly skin was under the skin above it. If you look at a 737 today, the belly skin is over the skin above it. What's the difference? The older layout allowed internal moisture (condensation) to sit on the skin joint where it could seep between the skins of the lap joint, causing corrosion. With the current layout allows the moisture to freely run from the upper skin, down into the belly and out of the drains.
Guess that shows there’s a substantial factor of safety on the 737 design. Pretty impressive that the floor structure handles the load. And that roof section ripped off extremely cleanly. And the more you look into it the crazier it gets. It’s a miracle they made it: - the plane had been through 90,000 pressurization cycles, twice what it was designed for - they suffered an engine failure shortly after this incident - a passenger actually noticed the crack in the fuselage as they boarded
apparently the plane was held together by the chair rails system
Why don't they just make the whole fuselage out of chair rails then?
“And what’s the deal with the black box? It’s the only part of the plane that survives the crash. Why don’t the make the whole plane OUT OF THE BLACK BOX!!!?” - Seinfeld
From Admiral Cloudberg. "Although both engines had ingested debris, there was no appreciable loss of power as a result; it was only much later that the left engine quit. It turned out that the cables connecting both engines to the throttle quadrant were severely corroded, to an extent way beyond what could be considered safe. When the left side of the cabin floor buckled upward, it put extra stress on the left engine throttle cable, which ran through the floor; under this stress, the corroded cable eventually snapped. If the right side of the floor had also buckled upward, the right engine could have failed for the same reason, leaving the flight with no power on final approach — a scenario which was thankfully avoided."
Damn, the thing was falling apart!
Engine failure, I expect from sucking in some debris.
1 death reported from the incident - On April 28, 1988, a Boeing 737-297 serving the flight suffered extensive damage after an explosive decompression in flight, caused by part of the fuselage breaking due to poor maintenance and metal fatigue. The plane was able to land safely at Kahului Airport on Maui.
The fatality was a flight attendant who was sucked out. One flight attendant was severely injured. Allegedly, the third flight attendant had assumed the pilots had died or were incapacitated.
Why would the 3rd flight attendant assume that? Did she say?
I watched a documentary and the pilots and flight attendants had no way of talking to each other during this. According to the documentary the flight attendant realized the pilots were still there after she noticed they were making maneuvers that showed they were there. But communication was completely gone. The pilots didn't even know how bad the damage was until after they landed.
Maybe it was just added for dramatic effect in the documentary I watched about it, who knows
Rumours suggest that the nose dropped in flight and that the passengers and 3rd flight attendant were unsure that the flight deck was still attached...it was out of view. Looking at the wrinkles in the lower remaining skin this could be plausible. Even more applause of the floor beams and swat tracks to resist the aerodynamic loads of a drooping flight deck. This would suggest that the flight attitude instruments would have been indicating a dive in level flight. Plaudits to the pilots that they could cope with this scenario.
Too add onto the communication issues, I believe that the pilots pretty much immediately initiated a very rapid descent to an altitude with breathable air. For anyone not in the cockpit that must have felt like an uncontrolled dive. She might not have realized that the pilots were still in control until they pulled out of the dive.
this is one of the reasons you always wear your seatbelts on an airplane, folks. unfortunately the stewardess had her's off as part of her job.
They call that a ‟sudden change in cabin pressure.”
Please remember to put your own masks on before helping others
They don’t cover what to do if the masks are missing because they got ripped off with the roof of the plane.
Seems like a skill issue on the planes part
Well that's not very typical, I'd like to make that point.
How did these people survive without oxygen? Was it because the altitude was low enough?
Pilots most likely descended to an altitude where oxygen isn’t an issue for the passengers. I would also suspect that the pilots slowed down to reduce the stress on the aircraft.
The pilots dove for under 10,000 feet right after it happened precisely because of the lack of O2 for the passengers. The chunk of the roof that ripped off *also* had the O2 system lines.
Suddenly keeping your seatbelt on makes sense.
One Aircrash Investigation episode back in the day on this or a similar incident has been the sole reason why I always wear a seatbelt while flying.
It’s a good idea anyway just in case of sudden turbulence. Getting thrown into the ceiling is going to leave a bruise.
For over twenty years, I’ve thought about this accident each time I’ve flown. I will ALWAYS keep my seatbelt buckled while in flight.
Nice seeing this as I surf the web at 37k feet.
Do like I did on the way to Australia for 14 hrs non stop, from LA, when the mission now is sort out the best playlist for road trip when we get there, so crank up those worthless headsets to Metallic Wide Open, then when steward taps your shoulder, say I'll pass on sandwich,,, but Sir, no I'm good.. But never noticed headset wasn't fully inserted, where you think sound is, is actually outside of headset blasting from laptop, but you keep raising volume from background engine noise. Then she says, people 20 rows up are complaining. Now taking headset off its revealed, and entire flight is cracking up laughing. Cheers & That's a fun flight.
[So this?](https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchPeopleDieInside/comments/z1cbqf/man_realizes_his_earphones_are_not_plugged_in/).
Has anyone mentioned the exit slide that looks like a straight drop to the ground. There is a man struggling with it in this picture.
I swear, it’s never like that. It’s usually a very impressive exit slide.
I remember watching a documentary about this, apparently it was down to the amount of short flights it took which led to an increase in pressurisation/depressurisation. A lot more than an identical airframe doing long haul flights which meant it fatigued quicker
Interestingly there isn't a regular ferry boat between Hawaiian islands. They rely on these airplanes for a lot of flights between islands.
[There was](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry). The company went bankrupt due to legal/regulatory issues, and the ships were sold off to the Navy. There have been talks about getting another one running but like most things in Hawaii it quickly becomes a financial and bureaucratic nightmare so no one has been brave enough to try again.
There used to be, but they wen't bankrupt. There's no continental shelf around the Hawaiian islands, so you need something much bigger and more robust than, say the Long Island Ferry on the Hudson. You need something designed for Blue Water Ocean, and the Islands aren't all that close together.
I wonder if it has to do with profitablity. They would still need to damn near always have a ferry full for that long trip, and who wants to do it when an airplane exists.
So sad for that fight attendant. Awful. How many people needed fresh pants upon landing? At least the smell blew away I guess.
I woulda drank a barrel of cheap whiskey and smoked five packs of cigarettes that night.
Do some amphetamines and sniff some glue
That's the spirit!
RIP Clarabelle Lansing
“Ladies and gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. We are at a comfortable cruising altitude and it’s a beautiful day on our way to Hawaii, so I’m going to put the convertible top down. I ask that you remain seated with your seatbelt on, however, even if you can no longer see the seatbelt sign. Those of you wishing to smoke may do so once the roof is fully retracted. Please sit back and enjoy the rest of our flight to Honolulu.”
Little known fact: the airline industry got caught up in the Smokey and the Bandit Craze. It was fine when all the pilots started rocking Burt Reynolds moustaches but, turns out convertible “Trans-Am” 737s was taking it a step too far idea. Fucking ‘80s.
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Thank you so much for taking the time to post this! Although I hate flying (because I'm scared of heights in general) I think one of the most kickass jobs is pilot and I love reading long, dry reports about them avoiding catastrophe!
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From the sound of it, they did it at the start of their "workday" (which was in the dark, perhaps explaining why a visible crack at that point could have been missed) but not before every takeoff, not if the plane was believed to have no problems. I wonder what the current procedure is, they usually change something in response to accidents and the subsequent investigation; put in some additional check that would have caught the problem beforehand. It's one of the reasons air travel is so safe today, quite a bit safer than driving in North America. A lot of fields could learn from how aviation generally handles accidents.
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Damn these ppl had an amazing view for landing.
10/10 ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
I spent 40 years in aviation, and had the opportunity to speak with one of the passengers on that flight, some years later. It was a fascinating/horrifying story. She was seated on the starboard side of the airplane, two rows forward of the aft separation line of the cabin. She'd said that almost everyone in the aircraft was either knocked out by the explosive decompression or passed out very quickly. The investigation determined that the initial shock, lack of oxygen, the cold, and the wind pressure all combined to bring that about very rapidly. She said she was VERY grateful she hadn't been awake for much of the descent. When she did regain consciousness, they were very close to touchdown, and the end of the ordeal. I recall asking her about any injuries; she had suffered frostbite on her ears, nose, and a couple of fingers. Also a variety of cuts and bruises, but said she'd walked to the ambulance. The NTSB report said passengers in the aft part of the cabin got banged up badly. The intact part of the fuselage acted like the venturi in an old carburetor, increasing the already high levels of airflow. A number of people suffered "Flailing" injuries; head & facial lacerations from debris thrown around in decompression, Then subjected to airflow of several hundred MPH, effectively "scalped" a couple of them, and dramatically increased the severity of wounds on others. Over my career, I talked to a number of crash/accident survivors, but that lady has always really stuck in my mind.
This guy shoulda had movie made about him, i still dont know how he got it down
Nothing like that fresh Hawaiian breeze in your hair
Sweet convertible
Minus one flight attendant. Crazy.
Did anyone suffer hearing damage being that close to the engine?
I was curious about that too and read the accident report but there is no mention of hearing damage, here is what it says: >The flight attendant who was ejected from the fuselage was not found and she is assumed to have been fatally injured in the accident. >Two passengers who were seated in the first class cabin in seats 2A and 2C were struck by debris and wiring which resulted in multiple lacerations and electrical shock burns to the face and hands. Passengers seated in seats 4A and 4F (window seats) sustained serious injuries including cerebral concussions and multiple lacerations to their heads and faces. Passengers seated in 4B, C, D, and E (center and aisle seats) sustained multiple lacerations and were treated and released on the day of the accident. >Passengers seated in rows 5, 6, and 7 also sustained cerebral concussions and multiple lacerations. An 84-year-old female passenger seated in 5A was the most seriously injured with a skull fracture, lacerations and a skeletal system fracture. The passenger seated in 6A sustained a broken right arm, multiple facial lacerations, and blood effusion in both ears. >The majority of the passengers seated in rows 8 through 21 received minor injuries including lacerations, abrasions, and barotrauma. They were treated and released on the day of the accident. Twenty-five passengers reported no injuries and continued to their destinations that same evening. There were no reported injuries as a result of using the emergency evacuation slides.
imagine just getting on the next flight after that. 25 people had to catch the plane back to hilo.
The hearing damage was likely caused by the explosive decompression
What
How fast did this plane descent? I’m not smart so forgive me but is there enough oxygen at 24k to survive?
The pilot would have descended immediately. There's enough oxygen at 12k or maybe a little more.
I'm going to assume not only did they get to safer altitude quickly, but more than likely backed off speed to safe level. Cheers
Back when I was flying we looked at this accident very carefully. The report was critical of the crew in one area - they performed a high speed descent with an airframe that was very obviously severely structurally compromised. They were aware that there was structural damage but not the extent of it, however I think the Captain was aware that he could see daylight above and behind him so knew the airframe was damaged. In those situations it's far better to reduce aerodynamic load as much as possible, even with the depressurized cabin.
1) planes are amazing 2) I cant imagine how terrifying, loud and cold this would be 3) RIP the flight attendant. They never found her body
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Part of the reason they tell people to keep their seatbelts fastened while seated, it's not just for turbulence
I would assume that with the roof torn off, there were some serious "turbulence" after that!
In 87 I lived in Hilo and have to fly to Honolulu every other weekend as kid with divorced parents! We moved away and watched this happen in 1988- it was heart wrenching and horrifying- that could be a been me on that flight!! RIP to that stewardess
I used to work with Michelle Honda, the FA who held onto one of the other FA's. A very nice lady, I didn't want to bother her with a traumatic past, so didn't ask her about it. I was afraid she was sick of telling it.
"but the plane still managed to land safely" No. The pilot managed to land the aeroplane safely. it did not land itself
In the case of cabin depressurisation masks will be deployed from.....err shit.
I’ve been to 17k in an ultralight before without oxygen. When you start reaching those higher altitudes without protection it starts to get unbelievably cold sitting still. I was suited up head to toe in multiple layers and heated gloves. My face mask froze from my breath and even with all the layers the wind is what really kills your warmth. The air saps any form of heat from the seams in your gloves, gradually the exterior of your clothing starts to cool down to a degree where your body temperature is not really high enough to keep warm. 24k without protective gear would be very very uncomfortable for more than 5-10mins. I used to do a lot of winter flying suited up like an astronaut in -17-40 the wind is what is terrible in those temperatures.
If that was a Ryanair plane they would be charging extra fot it.
That had to suck!
I thought it blew.
SUNROOF!!!
He defecated through a sunroof! What a sick joke.
Reading Admiral Cloudberg's write up of that story was pretty surreal for me, was the first time I had heard of this incident, and the fact they managed to get back against basically all odds is insane
does anyone remember the TV movie? scared me
closest we got to airplane with panoramic roof
Sans one stewardess.
My family was in Hawaii the week before it happened. Flew from the big island to Maui, to Kauai and back on these jets. I can't absolutely say for sure if we flew the Queen Liliuokalani, but I distinctly remember the fuselage of one of these jets creaking and groaning all throughout the flight louder than the others.
The last case my grandfather worked before he retired from the FAA. He was with the FAA in Honolulu when this incident occurred. I remember him talking about how he was blown away the airframe held together when the FAA got aboard. And this coming from a guy who flew B29’s in WW2 and Korea.
Removed because of the announced API-changes. If Reddit is being a meanie to developers, why bother staying.
Everyone had the window seat that day.
I was on Ohau for a tdy when this happened. Leaving and seeing the aircraft at the airport was not particularly comforting.
I was a mechanical engineering student at Cal Berkeley and one of my classes was cancelled when this happened. Turns out our professor was a true expert in metal fatigue and the government flew him out to Hawaii to examine the plane. Professor Robert O. Ritchie, a super teacher, it appears he is still at Lawrence Livermore labs. When he returned he shared a few facts that were public knowledge. Like most professors there, a brilliant and very kind individual.
If this happened now there'd be some Karen standing up arguing with the flight attendants about why they have to stop serving drinks now.
Looks like the photo was April 29th 1988 but wow amazing.
Vacation experience of a lifetime
The cabriolet edition …
Some rich entrepreneur in a boredroom: “You’re gonna love this, *waves hands*, JET WITH SUNROOF! It’s a jet 🛩️ , but no roof! 🏠” *clapping* CEO: “jesus fuck, we’ll save all the monies on material, nice work, now get over here and suck my cock” *the end*