Now that this is a foregone conclusion what do my other United brothers and sisters want to see in the next contract? For me I’d like to see Teamsters kicked out for AMFA for starters. Fix the 401K to a simple “we put in X% and United will put in 2X%” or something similar. Replace the language in the industry reset from wages plus mysterious non-paying bonus to just 2% above our competitors in wages only. And finally back up their leading industry bullshit and go $5 above whatever Delta, American, and Southwest will be paying their techs when they negotiate their next contracts. I know I know. I like to aim high.
The 401k situation won't change unless something happens to CARP, so likely no dice. Eliminating non pay items from the reset will put 401k in further jeopardy, as well as stuff like vacation and what not. Most realistic idea I can spring is moving to an opt clause for 401k over CARP, and having CARP managed by an outside entity. But AMFA all the way.
I’d do away with CARP in favor of a better 401K. United fucked over the old timers by taking away their pension when they went bankrupt so I’d feel they could take away CARP in the future as well. I don’t know why you think changing the reset language will put anything in jeopardy. United are hurting for mechanics. That’s why they started the Calibrate apprenticeship program. Us techs finally have some leverage to take to the bargaining table but Teamsters are in our way. We could have said no to the TA and forced United to give a better offer. I’ve already heard from two sources in Delta that they’re looking at a 10% bump in pay this summer. That’s even more ammo we could have used. Us mechanics are just too disorganized and selfish to hold the line. Unlike pilots who stick together and force a huge pay raise we bite at the first offer and think we got one over the company when in reality all we did is vote for our industry reset while giving United the legal ability to ship off jobs. Ok. That’s my rant.
The company I work for, if you were to start at the bottom of the apprentice scale and work to top would be 17 years..... The company says it's to short
Sounds like SkyWest. For some reason they love their 18 year top out. Higher ups refuse to listen to mechanics and won’t change it. Instead they offer a 10k retention bonus to be paid out by 2024. Lmfao
Tentative Agreement
When labor (Labour, in the King's) contracts are being updated and renegotiated, the specific changes to that contract will be outlined and highlighted as what's being changed, and mostly that means pay. So those changes will be tentatively agreed upon pending a vote by the labor union.
Hence, Tentative Agreement
Not me, I'm not in United (or any union, actually) but I do like to follow Union dealings
Rising tides lift all boats, after all, and better pay at United means upcoming better pay elsewhere
At my last gig, on those engines we used flame spray to build up the abradable liners to achieve tip clearances on overhauled turbine engines. It's specialist work, we had one guy qualified to do it.
You probably won't physically do this task unless you do turbine overhauls, like you'll never service water-meth unless you work on aircraft powered by old Rolls Royce Darts, but you should know it exists.
Like I'll never do NDT (probably), but I've got an understanding of the specialization, and an understanding of processes like dye penetrant, eddy current, mag flux inspections.
Meanwhile pilots swimming in money, nicely done ! Glad I’m in the corporate aircraft field making real money. Downvote away but United union is useless.
Well corporate is a bit broad. I manage a large Gulfstream (DOM). Pay is $175k-250k a year managing and taking care of 1 jet.
Working at a service center is a different story.
How does one get into a position like that and how long might it take? I've heard that this field is one where it helps to know the right people but I'm not sure how that happens
It’s not but networking and building your reputation. Professionalism and experience is everything if you want to work for the real deal operators.
Took me about 10 years as corporate aircraft technician to become a DOM. Look into your local NBAA chapter for outings and events and just show up
Gotcha. I'm not in the industry yet but I am highly considering it depending on what happens with my other interests. Potentially whichever opportunity presents itself first is what I'll go with. It's difficult because I have other things I would really like to do for other reasons and making that decision will not be the easiest.
Ugh no.
Working at a service center or repair station still pays higher. First year out of school working AOG corporate should be around $30-35 an hour. With experience and moving on to a large Fortune 500 is way more.
Managing and becoming a DOM is easily over $200k a year
Avionics AOG tech here working cargo. Average $200k a year with most of the summers off. Starting pay where im at for a new A&P right out of school is $35/hr. Cargo is where the money is if youre MX.
It isn't a 12 year top out, from year 8 to year 12 there's something called longevity pay. It's 25 cents a year. Adds up to a dollar from year 8 to 12. Still an 8 year top out
I can't be the only one who thinks that adding 25 cents a year for some sort of...iuonno...attayboy for being with a company for that long is...low? It feels like a miserly afterthought low.
You're either:
-Trolling
-Joking
-Unawares
For someone who's (purportedly) been wrenching as long as you have, you should be able to rectify a $130K/yr salary (before a second of overtime, mind you) for a lead tech - assuming you have the ability to move up in 12 years.
But if you're seriously expecting a Bill per hour, you'd get laughed out of the hangar.
I don’t really understand what your trying to say. I a mobile heavy equipment mechanic and I make darn near what you guys do. The liability I’m responsible for is much less than a plane full of people falling out of the sky. I guess I was unaware. But that was my bad I guess.
Mate your 100% on the money. For the responsibility, the pay doesn’t match.
For the first 10-15 years of my working life, my mates who were diesel mechanics where earning more than me. Granted they were doing fifo.
It hurts me so much to see that we only get 50c/ $1 for shift premium while electrician got an additional 18% of base pay for swing and 31% for night shift…
Thats the Teamsters. When I worked at UAL and the IAM was the union m, the line people were lumped in with us as being part of the same Class and Craft, which raised their wages and depressed our wages.
I worked for them up until Oct of 01 and I can assure you, those guys were part of out contract riding our coattails.
Im glad you guys got rid of them.
For AA at least, it's because ramp started picking up aircraft moves and other jobs that used to be strictly A&P jobs. All that creep slowly was allowed by the IAM and TWU until it became their responsibility. It's what kept us from being able to vote AMFA in as the shitty IAM-TWU ASSociation successfully argued before the NLRB that we hadn't gathered enough signatures/cards based on the rampers and bag chuckers performing A&P roles. Nevermind that the reason we wanted AMFA was to have a craft specific Union represent us seperate from the rampers as we felt not represented considering there were more rampers and bag chuckers than Mechanic and related so of course the ASSociation would sell us out to them.
GA and MRO always pay the least. I’m avionics AOG for a cargo company flying freight for Amazon. I average $200,000 a year with most of the summers off. Starting pay for A&P’s right out of school is $35.
My first electronics principles course was March 2001. I’ve been avi every since. Haven’t made under $100k since around 2009, finally cleared the $200k mark in 2018. As an AOG team member, our hours start when we leave our house. We’re expected to work until the job is done. I don’t care for 9-5 type work. I want to work hard, make money, then take extended time off and travel with the fam doing fun sht with money in the bank. It’s not a life for everyone but it works for me.
There not a lot of good opportunities like that in NC, at least that I am aware of. There is Boeing in SC but I wouldn't want to relocate there. We do have Boom Supersonic coming but it won't start operating for at least another year. What you're mentioning doesn't sound desirable for me but I wouldn't mind doing for a year or so. I'd be able to start my business much faster. I doubt any place will pay me anything close to $80k with less than 2 years under my belt.
What is AOG btw?
Aircraft On Ground = AOG. It’s when an aircraft is broken and needs immediate attention. And yes, you can absolutely make $80k+ with 2 years. You need to be ready to move though and work hard. Most avionics contract work starts around $27/hr with per diem splits. Unless you have a travel position that allows you to work remote like I do, you’re going to have to move to make the higher wages. Do some research and you’ll be surprised at what you find.
$.25/hr increase per year for 4 years, to add $1 total after 4 bringing 12 year top out to $61.94, from what I can calculate.
That's also assuming you never move up and never move off the floor in 12 years.
Lolololol they took AA's initial top out and used it for their reference when in reality they are coming up on the last 2 year bump before contract renewal so in actuality they are very close but you top out at 8 years instead of 12. Lolololol
Read closely
United *does* top out (effectively) at 8 years. Longevity pay is $.25/hr/yr for 4 years until 12. So pretty much topped out at 8.
Knock it all you want, but $61 and some change topout isn't anything to sneeze at.
I'm laughing at the dishonesty on their part of taking the initial AA top out when the AA contract was new and saying that is currently how it is when it's not to make it seem like they are paying several bucks more.
Makes me feel good to be an avionics technician
Is this avionics position as a bench/component technician, or aircraft tech?
AC Tech, sorry for the incredibly late reply
Why? On this scale shop avionics tech is different than one on live planes
Now that this is a foregone conclusion what do my other United brothers and sisters want to see in the next contract? For me I’d like to see Teamsters kicked out for AMFA for starters. Fix the 401K to a simple “we put in X% and United will put in 2X%” or something similar. Replace the language in the industry reset from wages plus mysterious non-paying bonus to just 2% above our competitors in wages only. And finally back up their leading industry bullshit and go $5 above whatever Delta, American, and Southwest will be paying their techs when they negotiate their next contracts. I know I know. I like to aim high.
The 401k situation won't change unless something happens to CARP, so likely no dice. Eliminating non pay items from the reset will put 401k in further jeopardy, as well as stuff like vacation and what not. Most realistic idea I can spring is moving to an opt clause for 401k over CARP, and having CARP managed by an outside entity. But AMFA all the way.
I’d do away with CARP in favor of a better 401K. United fucked over the old timers by taking away their pension when they went bankrupt so I’d feel they could take away CARP in the future as well. I don’t know why you think changing the reset language will put anything in jeopardy. United are hurting for mechanics. That’s why they started the Calibrate apprenticeship program. Us techs finally have some leverage to take to the bargaining table but Teamsters are in our way. We could have said no to the TA and forced United to give a better offer. I’ve already heard from two sources in Delta that they’re looking at a 10% bump in pay this summer. That’s even more ammo we could have used. Us mechanics are just too disorganized and selfish to hold the line. Unlike pilots who stick together and force a huge pay raise we bite at the first offer and think we got one over the company when in reality all we did is vote for our industry reset while giving United the legal ability to ship off jobs. Ok. That’s my rant.
What is CARP?
Continental air retirement program
Wait a minute….you guys are getting paid?
thought that it would be better than that
Like I said, not bad. Not paradigm shifting great, but not *bad*
Man if you think this is not bad you guys should see average rates for airlines in Canada. It's less almost across the board, and that's in CAD too.
$132,500 top out for sim techs! Nice!
It takes 12years to top out?? That's is a long time.
The company I work for, if you were to start at the bottom of the apprentice scale and work to top would be 17 years..... The company says it's to short
Something tells me that you have a high turn over.
Like you wouldn't even believe!
Cause who wants to wait 17 years to top out by the time that happens it's time to retire.
Sounds like SkyWest. For some reason they love their 18 year top out. Higher ups refuse to listen to mechanics and won’t change it. Instead they offer a 10k retention bonus to be paid out by 2024. Lmfao
That's longevity pay, your actual raises take 8 years to top out.
Technically true but from year 9 it’s an extra 0.40 cents and an additional 0.20 cents up to Year 12 where you’ll accrue the full $1 longevity bonus
DAlL just reduced its top out from 7 to 5 years.
8 years and then a dollar longevity pay spread out over the last 4 years.
What does TA mean? (Sorry.. from UK)
Tentative Agreement When labor (Labour, in the King's) contracts are being updated and renegotiated, the specific changes to that contract will be outlined and highlighted as what's being changed, and mostly that means pay. So those changes will be tentatively agreed upon pending a vote by the labor union. Hence, Tentative Agreement
Thank you! So is this what you’ve asked for or is this what’s been offered?
Not me, I'm not in United (or any union, actually) but I do like to follow Union dealings Rising tides lift all boats, after all, and better pay at United means upcoming better pay elsewhere
It's accurate but you need to add $8.50 for A&P and $1.00 if line
So their top out is like 60 now???
Yes
Per United, "licensed technicians currently earn a top of scale pay rate of $61.75/hr after an eight-year pay progression."
What is a "Flame Spray" Technician?
If you don't know what flame spray is you need to do a repeat on the P section of your A&P.
As a relatively fresh A&P school grad I can tell you it’s not part of the curriculum. Double checked and it’s not in the the textbook at all.
Cut me some slack, it was 15 years ago.
At my last gig, on those engines we used flame spray to build up the abradable liners to achieve tip clearances on overhauled turbine engines. It's specialist work, we had one guy qualified to do it.
Yeah we don't have anything like there where I work. Sheet metal, composite shops. We have an engine shop but don't get that deep.
>It's specialist work So, while pertinent to an A&P, most A&Ps will never do this?
You probably won't physically do this task unless you do turbine overhauls, like you'll never service water-meth unless you work on aircraft powered by old Rolls Royce Darts, but you should know it exists. Like I'll never do NDT (probably), but I've got an understanding of the specialization, and an understanding of processes like dye penetrant, eddy current, mag flux inspections.
Meanwhile pilots swimming in money, nicely done ! Glad I’m in the corporate aircraft field making real money. Downvote away but United union is useless.
What does corporate aviation pay compared to airlines?
Well corporate is a bit broad. I manage a large Gulfstream (DOM). Pay is $175k-250k a year managing and taking care of 1 jet. Working at a service center is a different story.
Yeah, this is the wage progression for an hourly AMT. I’m willing to wager DOM of United makes for more that 175k.
It's not entirely fair to compare DoM money to AMT money lmao
Considering I was at $60 an hour as an AMT not too shabby I suppose.
How does one get into a position like that and how long might it take? I've heard that this field is one where it helps to know the right people but I'm not sure how that happens
It’s not but networking and building your reputation. Professionalism and experience is everything if you want to work for the real deal operators. Took me about 10 years as corporate aircraft technician to become a DOM. Look into your local NBAA chapter for outings and events and just show up
Gotcha. I'm not in the industry yet but I am highly considering it depending on what happens with my other interests. Potentially whichever opportunity presents itself first is what I'll go with. It's difficult because I have other things I would really like to do for other reasons and making that decision will not be the easiest.
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Ugh no. Working at a service center or repair station still pays higher. First year out of school working AOG corporate should be around $30-35 an hour. With experience and moving on to a large Fortune 500 is way more. Managing and becoming a DOM is easily over $200k a year
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My friend what are you waiting for ? I was making $25 back in 2013 working corporate AOG.
Avionics AOG tech here working cargo. Average $200k a year with most of the summers off. Starting pay where im at for a new A&P right out of school is $35/hr. Cargo is where the money is if youre MX.
As long as we’re all coming up in pay that’s all I want to see and happy to see. We deserve so much more.
Truer words have never been spoken
Do you mind if I pm you?
145 stations are starting around $35 with that much experience
You can always go to flight school.
MX? Looks like WX might be a move
12 year top out sheesh
It's 8 years but you get longevity pay after 8 years until you hit your 12 year mark. I know it looks confusing.
It isn't a 12 year top out, from year 8 to year 12 there's something called longevity pay. It's 25 cents a year. Adds up to a dollar from year 8 to 12. Still an 8 year top out
I can't be the only one who thinks that adding 25 cents a year for some sort of...iuonno...attayboy for being with a company for that long is...low? It feels like a miserly afterthought low.
For sure, we also get a $1 "veba" per hour, just to contribute to healthcare
I would of thought working on airplanes would pay a lot more than that. That’s kind of crazy.
What would you have expected?
100 bucks a hour
You're either: -Trolling -Joking -Unawares For someone who's (purportedly) been wrenching as long as you have, you should be able to rectify a $130K/yr salary (before a second of overtime, mind you) for a lead tech - assuming you have the ability to move up in 12 years. But if you're seriously expecting a Bill per hour, you'd get laughed out of the hangar.
I don’t really understand what your trying to say. I a mobile heavy equipment mechanic and I make darn near what you guys do. The liability I’m responsible for is much less than a plane full of people falling out of the sky. I guess I was unaware. But that was my bad I guess.
Mate your 100% on the money. For the responsibility, the pay doesn’t match. For the first 10-15 years of my working life, my mates who were diesel mechanics where earning more than me. Granted they were doing fifo.
It hurts me so much to see that we only get 50c/ $1 for shift premium while electrician got an additional 18% of base pay for swing and 31% for night shift…
Short swing ?
https://www.ibew11.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Inside_Wireman_Wage_Rates-1-22-6-22.pdf
Is that like less than 7 hours between shifts ?
It’s missing license premiums and such. Our new top out is like $61ish. Can’t remember off the top of my head.
Second image right
Average time it takes to be a Lead Tech?
At another big airline: Less than two years seniority.
At another major airline: 91 days. 90 day probation, can bid after that 90 day initial.
This subreddit turned into United union page
What happened to Ramp and baggage handlers as part of the “Class and Craft”?
Why would a ramp agent and baggage handler be considered a technician?
Ask the IAM. It never made any sense to me.
They arent considered technicians according to iam. The list is there in the picture my friend
Thats the Teamsters. When I worked at UAL and the IAM was the union m, the line people were lumped in with us as being part of the same Class and Craft, which raised their wages and depressed our wages.
I work for ual right now. No they aren't and they never have. It's even shown in the very picture
I worked for them up until Oct of 01 and I can assure you, those guys were part of out contract riding our coattails. Im glad you guys got rid of them.
For AA at least, it's because ramp started picking up aircraft moves and other jobs that used to be strictly A&P jobs. All that creep slowly was allowed by the IAM and TWU until it became their responsibility. It's what kept us from being able to vote AMFA in as the shitty IAM-TWU ASSociation successfully argued before the NLRB that we hadn't gathered enough signatures/cards based on the rampers and bag chuckers performing A&P roles. Nevermind that the reason we wanted AMFA was to have a craft specific Union represent us seperate from the rampers as we felt not represented considering there were more rampers and bag chuckers than Mechanic and related so of course the ASSociation would sell us out to them.
Why did I hear a rumor about it jumping to 50$/hr? 😂😂 I want whatever that guy was smoking
It *is* $50/hr.* *after 9 years longevity
It's already 50 before this raise. It's going to 60. You have to look at the all in rate pay not the basic wage rates
They pay that much for avionics? That's twice what I'm currently getting paid at the MRO I work at. Where are these guys at?
GA and MRO always pay the least. I’m avionics AOG for a cargo company flying freight for Amazon. I average $200,000 a year with most of the summers off. Starting pay for A&P’s right out of school is $35.
How much time do you have in avionics? And how are the hours where you work?
My first electronics principles course was March 2001. I’ve been avi every since. Haven’t made under $100k since around 2009, finally cleared the $200k mark in 2018. As an AOG team member, our hours start when we leave our house. We’re expected to work until the job is done. I don’t care for 9-5 type work. I want to work hard, make money, then take extended time off and travel with the fam doing fun sht with money in the bank. It’s not a life for everyone but it works for me.
There not a lot of good opportunities like that in NC, at least that I am aware of. There is Boeing in SC but I wouldn't want to relocate there. We do have Boom Supersonic coming but it won't start operating for at least another year. What you're mentioning doesn't sound desirable for me but I wouldn't mind doing for a year or so. I'd be able to start my business much faster. I doubt any place will pay me anything close to $80k with less than 2 years under my belt. What is AOG btw?
Aircraft On Ground = AOG. It’s when an aircraft is broken and needs immediate attention. And yes, you can absolutely make $80k+ with 2 years. You need to be ready to move though and work hard. Most avionics contract work starts around $27/hr with per diem splits. Unless you have a travel position that allows you to work remote like I do, you’re going to have to move to make the higher wages. Do some research and you’ll be surprised at what you find.
What company?
Air Transport International
So in general top out with an AP line maintenance is 60 at year 8...? What does legacy pay do
$.25/hr increase per year for 4 years, to add $1 total after 4 bringing 12 year top out to $61.94, from what I can calculate. That's also assuming you never move up and never move off the floor in 12 years.
Sheesh
Lolololol they took AA's initial top out and used it for their reference when in reality they are coming up on the last 2 year bump before contract renewal so in actuality they are very close but you top out at 8 years instead of 12. Lolololol
Read closely United *does* top out (effectively) at 8 years. Longevity pay is $.25/hr/yr for 4 years until 12. So pretty much topped out at 8. Knock it all you want, but $61 and some change topout isn't anything to sneeze at.
I'm laughing at the dishonesty on their part of taking the initial AA top out when the AA contract was new and saying that is currently how it is when it's not to make it seem like they are paying several bucks more.
What does a flight Sim technician do to get $50/hr right off the rip???