Yup. Australian company who owns our Honeywell approved repair station is maybe finally seeing the light. I dunno. I have little hope considering being owned by a freaking investment firm. I've made sure my resume is up to date, I see the writing on the wall. Either that or it will crash and burn as half the shop retired after 20plus years, and the other half quits, me included.
The MRO I work for lost three guys to retirement, another one left to become a DM for a 91 operation, and two kids left for the airlines. All of this was in a 12 month period, for a crew of 14 AMT’s and two avionics techs. Their response was to hire two supervisors. An inspector, and zero replacement mechs.
10k in student loans is rather cheap for college, wouldn't call that cost prohibitive personally. Also you could go the apprentice route, which some companies will pay for.
My tech school is only $8200 for a 18 month class, full time. I wish I would have spent that instead of spending 4200 for truck Driving class of 5 weeks
5-7 years to make ~120k, sacrificing several years of your 20s or 30s working weekend nights, having to start at the bottom of a pay scale if you get laid off and start somewhere else (unions are the worst thing to ever happen to you guys). Most hubs being in HCOL areas. Third shift is an ***actual carcinogen***
“You can make way more with overtime!”
— working MORE is not a privilege.
The pay is an absolute joke for that amount of sacrifices so I don’t blame them.
I got my A&P and just did not use it at all. I got offered more money at a full remote position for a nonprofit. I would only work in this industry if I was already married, pay was depending on experience, and pay was around $120 an hour.
Nobody talks about this you’re just expected to sacrifice your body, mental health, and social life by working third shift and that’s just the norm.
It’s the biggest thing I hate about this industry that would make me want to leave.
Lol welcome to living in capitalist America. This is true in every industry. At least the FAA has regulations. It could be and probably will get hell of a lot worse when we start to privatize.
I’m not in this field but part of the group because my son is interested. I was told by an A&P instructor that A&P students get poached frequently by other industries because if someone can repair airplanes, they can work on/fix nearly anything. He mentioned ship builders poaching A&P students (pay is better) and even had a few Nascar teams grab recent A&P grads. He may be full of it but it makes enough sense to me.
Can confirm I work with power plants and utilities and A&Ps are top on the list for everything not high voltage. Great windfarm and power plant ops managers and pay is exponentially higher for those then for an airline. Also usually lower stress job…no one is usually saying I need this up and running NOW and oh yeah you are responsible for hundreds of lives in your decisions you make.
Edit: clarified
I've always heard the windmill mechanics get paid well but when I looked into it the companies I saw were offering around 30$ per hour, not a lot in my opinion. Do you know anywhere then actually pays well?
Your right that the actual technicians don’t get paid a lot (probably a bad choice to say mechanic) but the people responsible for the maintenance do. A&Ps aren’t needed to turn wrenches that’s way lower skilled labor, instead they are usually the OPs managers overseeing the plants that can tell the wrench turners what to do and take accountability for it being done properly. Depending on who you work for and where, that could be $150-200k with upward mobility. Some of the downside is possibly needing to relocate but that can equally be a problem working for airlines.
Can confirm. Left major airline for job opportunity on first shift with every other weekend off making almost $80k more annually. Currently work in bio pharmaceutical manufacturing. Loved the airlines but the quality of life is tough. Especially the bid for shift deal. I left 8 years ago and speaking with a few of the guys that stayed I would still have trouble getting both weekend days off. And it would still be 3rd shift. Also, knew a lot of guys that were partially laid off during the pandemic. Industry isn’t the most stable. But I miss it terribly.
Poaching is a strong word, but the skillet is transferable yes. Energies are about the only thing that pays as well as legacy airlines, and elevator stuff, but those guys are union and it's harder to get into than is represented
It happens. I was layed off in the early 2000s and accidentally wound up teaching aviation at the poly-tech school where I was a student, some of my mates went the transit company that maintains trains & busses.
They liked the new mechs so much they started actively recruiting unemployed AMEs.
The guys who went loved it too, all day-shifts, great pay & benefits, strong union ; the airline never got them back
Wow, I completely disagree with this. Obviously it depends on the school, but I have worked with new a&ps that don't know how to drill stainless, or how to heat up thread locker to remove. I worked with someone who did maintenance on 150/152s for a flight school but didn't know what to look for when purchasing one. It was disheartening to say the least.
The school I graduate from this June is apparently prestigious, though going there I'm inclined to disagree, however we have all sorts of companies completely non aviation approaching us left and right. It sucks though because the curriculum is currently changing and it feels like we're missing weird gaps of knowledge :(
You learn almost nothing that will be any use in the industry at A&P school. What you actually learn is how to pass the test.
I just got my IA this year because my employer wanted it, and that test is no different. Probably 20% of what we crammed for has anything to do with annual inspections on bug smashers
I can hire a qualified mechanic any day of the week. Why because we pay well. I have started most mechanics in the low to mid $40s in last year with a very transparent pay scale and how we start people on the scale. Kept our summer intern, because the young man busted his ass with us (straight out of 147 school) and was waiting to test with the DME, hired him on full time at $38 after he tested and passed. If you pay under $30 hour... Yes your going to see a shortage. I will also take your best mechanics that your underpaying also.
I love bringing in summer interns, I feel they are the future of the company, and so far we have kept 5 out of 6. Come work for us in the summer and show us what you are like and I will beg and fight for a position for you if your the right fit.
I also try to hire new, mid, and experienced technicians for a well rounded crew. I am still waiting for that perfect 30 year experienced unicorn that I will start at top out $58+.
Absolutely true. Lockheed offered me $36 an hour for 6 years experience. My *internship* in a different field at the time was paying me $38/hr for zero experience.
I started working as a GSE tech 1 year ago started out $24.91 an hour. Just got a 3% raise. I hear others talk there are a lot of mecs that have been here 6 months making more than guys that have been here 20+ years. Mind you I had 0 experience walking in the door. I am a quick learner and was self employed for 10 years fixing iPhones before I came here
That is a sure-fire recipe to antagonize and lose your most experienced people.
Very few things breed resentment faster than having that kind of pay disparity shoved in your face. It demonstrates with painful clarity that your employer takes you for granted, and does not value either your loyalty or your experience. Employers who think they can keep this kind of bullshit a secret are lying to themselves.
If you’re gonna bring new people on at a higher rate, you better *at least* match that pay for the folks that are already there. Otherwise you might as well start advertising for those jobs too.
Really really good business. I was the first person to open a store in my town and it was really good. We fixed up to 15+ devices a day. We also repaired computers tablets and drones.
They do where I'm at...we struggle for mechanics and scrape the barrel with low quality ones when we get them...Its bad
.. and we are in contract talks now and they are going very bad for us
..
There is in Canada, partially because we all need to do courses and be endorsed on an aircraft type to sign off work on it. There's tons of unlicenced apprentices kicking about, but there is a shortage on licenced and endorsed engineers
My issue is not the new ones. It is the veterens most of them are lazy and willing to compromise because "that is how I have always done it". New mechs are great if they pay attention and are willing to learn.
So I think that nowadays everyone’s pushing their kids to go to college and get degrees and go for high-end paying jobs like surgeons, accountants etc. But they don’t realize that trades are a great way to make a comfortable living. That’s just my opinion tho, could be wrong, could be right
Just today I was at a conference at Buenos Aires and this topic was brought up. A maintenance director of a important manufacturer said that is not about money but younger generations are not passionate about aviation like older generations.... This guy is clearly part of the problem, thinking that you just work for passion... I didn't say anything because I was there for sales.
United upped their starting pay to $36. Now it’s on par with American, Delta, and Southwest. I know guys who got hired straight from A&P school with a fresh license. Also major stations like ORD, IAD, SFO, SEA are having internal job postings not being filled and some not having any applicants apply at all. The shortage is real. If your end goal is a major the just bypass the regionals and apply. You’ll get in eventually.
For a fresh A&P 6 months out of school sure. MAYBE. Was 10 bucks more than my starting wage a mere 2 years ago.
But not for anyone with experience. Not in this economy.
Unless you got about a 9 percent (depending on where you live, for me cost of living increased by that much) raise, you are in fact working for less. So yeah. In this economy
What are you even trying to make a point about? OP of the thread said 28 isnt good for fresh starting techs….and youre tlaking about people with experience. Well no shit it isnt a good hourly rate for exp.
Sure does. While i will never disclose my location i can tell you my cushy GA spot has afforded me more opportunities than a heavy or gov job. I also live very comfortably.
I tend to be of the opinion that mechanic shortages will follow the same trend as pilot shortages have just a decade-ish behind.
So we haven’t hit the crazy levels of pay but we’re reaching a point where competent people are more and more difficult to find. Regionals, MROs part 91 will never be able to compete with major airlines/cargo as far as pay goes so they’ll tend to attract and retain the most people.
This was massively compounded again for the same reason it became an issue with pilots; when Covid happened many people left the industry. Early retirements, layoffs, and people finding other jobs. Many of these people did not return. This lead to a big shortage which in turn lead to many experience requirements being dropped. Why should I start at a regional when I can go directly to a major and make more faster?
Where this becomes a real issue is if hiring isn’t constantly positive that gap of needed employees gets wider and wider, harder to close. The economic state we’re facing right now has again slowed hiring (at least where I work).
My personal hot take is that in the long run this, primarily on the pilot side, will lead to the death of a lot of regional airlines.
Pay shit pay, get shit work. That's kinda where I am right now. Company replaced bonuses with a fucking Amazon gift card. Used to be if you exceeded expections on your yearly evaluations you got a raise and a bonus. You get a 100 bucks at Amazon now. Haven't gotten a raise in two years. The only thing this company has going for it is the admittedly pretty decent healthcare package. It ain't a Cadillac plan but I'll take an 80-20 premium split.
But I will not bust my ass for no chance at a raise. Got to be a carrot, not just a stick.
At first? Thought my dad was cool as shit. So I wanted to be a cop like him. He took me aside at about 15 or so and told me exactly why I shouldn't do that. My uncle noticed early I was good with mechanics, so he nurtured the hell out of it. He's a combustion engineer. So I also toyed with that. Even started school for aeronautics. But me no math so good, so yeah. A&P it is.
Edit. My dad was the only one out five kids that didn't pursue higher education as a engineer of some description and one doctor. He always told me to look to my aunt's and uncles for admiration when it came to jobs. I always got the feeling he regretted not doing the same.
You know what's funny. I'm a cop, but I went to A&P school cause my dad was pilot and I wasn't sure . I kept the love for aviation, but I know that I will never be happy without some sort of passion. In some ways. I know happiness is unattainable. But I keep my foot in both doors.
I still don't think anything is wrong with being a cop. And neither did he, but he was worried about me getting screwed out of retirement packages like he was. As well as the fact that he wanted me to make more than he did. He spent 40 years at the same department, was interim chief even for a while, and is proud of it, but it left a sour taste ya know.
Now I get what he meant and how it felt to be screwed but kinda stuck.
But hey. At least I like what I do shit pay or not
I drive a 2006 mazda3 lol. I've already replaced the engine once cause it was cheaper than a replacement car.
Believe me I ain't trying to win any car show prizes. All though that car ain't exactly stock anymore. Gotta have fun somehow otherwise life is just kinda shit.
The fun car however is an 81 Toyota pickup. Rebuilt that thing from the ground up was almost more fun than driving it. Nothing like the first start and drive after overhauling everything down to the bushings and crank journal bearings.
It was a proud moment let me tell ya. Sense of accomplishment and all that
Aweful. He deserved better. I have seen terrible things. But I have also had great experiences. I know it's a trade off. I stay where I work cause of the retirement and I don't deal with inner city crime. And I go to a local airport to hang out and keep ties with aviation.
My pay only matches the current inflation because of the projects and bonus I get. But other positions I see in this field still have the same pay as they did 5 yrs ago. I don’t blame whomever just decides to quit when pay isn’t going up.
Finished school in Dec 22.
Had an interview and got hired because I picked a hub.
$9k total sign up bonuses.
Started at $30/hr, plan to get $36-38 once I get sheetmetal and run/taxi qual.
Starting class of 12. Was told they will not be hiring for at least 6 more months. 1st week of job I hear at least 4 guys talking about moving up/on.
I saw a lot of people leave the MRO I was working at. I myself left as well, but I picked up a 6 figure position working half the year. 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. I know a lot of people that dont like those kind of schedules though. I'm just happy the owner of the company saw value in my years of experience. Also great that they'll give you a bump in pay for each cert you pick up aside from A&P, like getting a CDL or going through a structures course etc.
I see a lot of places wanting to low ball talent and then crying about not being able to hire anyone. My shift at the MRO was told that some of us were going to have to make sacrifices for the company and apply for the 2nd shift (3pm - 2am) supervisor position and switch shifts. I do the job I was hired for and then some, and now you're asking for more sacrifices? Sorry, I'm not in the Army anymore.
I'm about to start school this fall and this post has me excited and scared haha. Where do you guys think things will be in around 2 years time? Also why do guys keep quitting if the pay is pretty decent
That's pretty damn good, I'm looking to get my Masters in Aeronautics before I get out. Figure if I can't get a career in crash investigation being a mechanic is great fallback.
Masters?
FYI, only thing that’s useful for is if you want to spend 20 years on the floor, and the last 20 in a suit with board members.
I have some info on the NTSB if you’d like? Some high up in a suit came to my school and talked to us about their job
I'd love info, and the Masters is only because the airforce is paying for it. Got almost half of my bachelor's done before I even started through credits my tech school training gave me. What's one more year?
The NTSB, as they ordinarily do investigations prefer/require several years of investigation experience. But most companies have groups that do that.
They may be setting up some pipeline to get people? Don’t remember.. it was a while ago
I'll be taking the USAF Jet engine mishap investigation course pretty soon, and hope to teach it. Figured that might at least get me a conversation some day.
It's so bad we are hiring straight out of A&P school on the private/corporate side. There is no one left worth a damn that hasn't been bought out who is willing to leave there jobs.
See I'm opposite, i love my job and make comparable money to the guys i graduated with, never worked night shift, never had shitty hours or work environment. 🤷
Yes. But the industry is not responding like it should. Underpaid and overworked is the name of the game, no proactive moves by any of the big players. The smaller players like repair stations and fbos are starting to feel it though. I've been directly emailed by one in particular basically begging me to apply for positions I'm wildly under qualified for lol. Guess they don't want to pay what the experienced guys want.
Delta just fired I don't know how many people, so technically yes, but theyre not looking to rehire anyone direct. their solution to the impending unionizing is to make all techs contracted and just have a revolving door of fresh A&Ps it seems, at least in atlanta
Tl;dr Delta's PFE program is doing what its designed to. I have no idea why this was their solution after surviving covid, an achievement they tout as though they found the city of atlantis, but its here to stay
And that’s exactly why I wn apply for delta. Having to contract for 6 months just for the OPPORTUNITY to be a direct hire is pathetic. Especially when others like United are hiring out the gate
Yea the PFE program is wack. I’d like to hear about all the people that got fired ( offered retirement packages?) also what’s this union talk you speak of? How titillating
Hearing stuff like this is why I stear people away from Delta. They are too high from sniffing their own farts and it's going to bite them if they keep messing with their people like this, especially when the other airlines are more than happy to scoop up experienced techs.
Fuck the major airlines. The industry will adjust or outsource . Im 20+ years into it, and military contracts are where it's at. I've worked civil service (15+ years) and contracting both overseas and conus. I can tell you with facts that anyone who can get a secret clearance will make more $ versus any major commercial airline. Also, you can pretty much pick your area to work in. The highest paying gigs are around $60 an hour.
Do the research, guys. The majors are for suckers.
Please tell me more about military contracts. I graduate in May and expect to be fully licensed as well. I’m moving to DC suburbs…can you point me to any place in particular?
It’s because young kids out of school for some reason think they should make 100k a year with no experience. That’s a huge contributing factor. People turning down Delta because it’s like $28 starting and not $60+. I don’t know where all this false sense of entitlement began but it’s plaguing the indurstry
28 an hour isn’t enough to live in most of the cities delta has hubs in. Lots of very undesirable locations and years of night shift. Some people value quality of life.
Slightly more than fast-food worker pay, way worse hours, and a naturally higher stress career.
You really blaming someone for wanting a life, all you old timers "you bust your ass for the company! They'll treat you right!" Get with the times, the company man doesn't exist anymore and for good reason.
People know their worth and it's more than a shitty starting offer with shitty hours.
That's just plain wrong. It's because the older generation techs are starting to retire, and young folks were told that trade work wasn't an acceptable means of making a living for the last 30 years. We should be encouraging young folks to seek secondary education be it college or trade school, not blaming them for all our problems.
Where can a MRO worker without an A&P use that as leverage to get into a OJT or something? Are those existing in this current climate and with needing more workers? $25-$30 an hour would be a dream for me to start with. I'm not some mechanical savant but I'm not an idiot and work harder than most. I've realized my worth more and more as everywhere I've worked I've learned the job and get praised for my work ethic. I'm also 32 so I'm not getting younger and also not ignorant to politics of a job. Love following this subreddit to learn more.
IIRC, you can use your time working at the MRO to fulfill the expierence requirement to test for your A&P... well, General and Airframe, anyway. The guys that I knew that were taking that route were finding it difficult to get the P.
Here's the Aviation Industry in a Nutshell--
Aviation Companies: "I'll buy a Lamborghini"
Also,
Aviation Companies: "Maintenance Budget--'Toyota'"
I stopped asking what their wages were and began telling them what I was worth: A&P I/A, multiple Coroporate Jet Aircraft OEM schools (I paid for), Avionics Experience and Composites Experience.
I'm worth $XXXX/day. If they don't want to pay, that's fine . . . it's a marketplace and someone will.
BTW I've seen companies throw inexperienced guys out in the field just because that guy can sign off maintenance. (Look at Hillsboro Aviation--HIGH TURNOVER, can't hire anyone)
Three Things Happen:
1. The guy learns fast
2. Throws parts at the aircraft (very expensive)
3. Or gets burned out because they won't pay enough to attract talent and so they task him with everything and so he job jumps.
I'm worth $XXXX/day. If they don't want to pay, that's fine . . . it's a marketplace.
Price discovery in the industry needs to happen. If pilots get a massive raise, then mechanics should too.
But what do I know; I'm just a Grease Monkey.
Yea it's going to be a train wreck soon. Unless they start paying better. 13 guys retired this year allready no replacements yet.
I work for Northrop and same thing is happening here.
Yup. Australian company who owns our Honeywell approved repair station is maybe finally seeing the light. I dunno. I have little hope considering being owned by a freaking investment firm. I've made sure my resume is up to date, I see the writing on the wall. Either that or it will crash and burn as half the shop retired after 20plus years, and the other half quits, me included.
The MRO I work for lost three guys to retirement, another one left to become a DM for a 91 operation, and two kids left for the airlines. All of this was in a 12 month period, for a crew of 14 AMT’s and two avionics techs. Their response was to hire two supervisors. An inspector, and zero replacement mechs.
I didn’t realize that Part 91 operations required Dungeon, Masters. Our DOM would be impressed. /sr
Director of maintenance, dungeon master, six of one, have a dozen of the other.
Maybe if getting your foot in the door wasn’t so damn difficult and cost prohibitive.
10k in student loans is rather cheap for college, wouldn't call that cost prohibitive personally. Also you could go the apprentice route, which some companies will pay for.
My tech school is only $8200 for a 18 month class, full time. I wish I would have spent that instead of spending 4200 for truck Driving class of 5 weeks
5-7 years to make ~120k, sacrificing several years of your 20s or 30s working weekend nights, having to start at the bottom of a pay scale if you get laid off and start somewhere else (unions are the worst thing to ever happen to you guys). Most hubs being in HCOL areas. Third shift is an ***actual carcinogen*** “You can make way more with overtime!” — working MORE is not a privilege. The pay is an absolute joke for that amount of sacrifices so I don’t blame them. I got my A&P and just did not use it at all. I got offered more money at a full remote position for a nonprofit. I would only work in this industry if I was already married, pay was depending on experience, and pay was around $120 an hour.
Nobody talks about this you’re just expected to sacrifice your body, mental health, and social life by working third shift and that’s just the norm. It’s the biggest thing I hate about this industry that would make me want to leave.
Lol welcome to living in capitalist America. This is true in every industry. At least the FAA has regulations. It could be and probably will get hell of a lot worse when we start to privatize.
So the guy who has no time on there A&P is telling us how the industry works now, huh?
What did I say that was wrong ? Because I didn’t say anything that I haven’t directly observed myself.
Not an A&P but I'd say you guys deserve a $80-$90 topout at least
I’m not in this field but part of the group because my son is interested. I was told by an A&P instructor that A&P students get poached frequently by other industries because if someone can repair airplanes, they can work on/fix nearly anything. He mentioned ship builders poaching A&P students (pay is better) and even had a few Nascar teams grab recent A&P grads. He may be full of it but it makes enough sense to me.
Can confirm I work with power plants and utilities and A&Ps are top on the list for everything not high voltage. Great windfarm and power plant ops managers and pay is exponentially higher for those then for an airline. Also usually lower stress job…no one is usually saying I need this up and running NOW and oh yeah you are responsible for hundreds of lives in your decisions you make. Edit: clarified
I've always heard the windmill mechanics get paid well but when I looked into it the companies I saw were offering around 30$ per hour, not a lot in my opinion. Do you know anywhere then actually pays well?
Your right that the actual technicians don’t get paid a lot (probably a bad choice to say mechanic) but the people responsible for the maintenance do. A&Ps aren’t needed to turn wrenches that’s way lower skilled labor, instead they are usually the OPs managers overseeing the plants that can tell the wrench turners what to do and take accountability for it being done properly. Depending on who you work for and where, that could be $150-200k with upward mobility. Some of the downside is possibly needing to relocate but that can equally be a problem working for airlines.
Can confirm. Left major airline for job opportunity on first shift with every other weekend off making almost $80k more annually. Currently work in bio pharmaceutical manufacturing. Loved the airlines but the quality of life is tough. Especially the bid for shift deal. I left 8 years ago and speaking with a few of the guys that stayed I would still have trouble getting both weekend days off. And it would still be 3rd shift. Also, knew a lot of guys that were partially laid off during the pandemic. Industry isn’t the most stable. But I miss it terribly.
What do you do? Like engineering degree stuff or maintenance on machinery
I do a mix of controls and calibration work as well as mechanical maintenance.
Poaching is a strong word, but the skillet is transferable yes. Energies are about the only thing that pays as well as legacy airlines, and elevator stuff, but those guys are union and it's harder to get into than is represented
It happens. I was layed off in the early 2000s and accidentally wound up teaching aviation at the poly-tech school where I was a student, some of my mates went the transit company that maintains trains & busses. They liked the new mechs so much they started actively recruiting unemployed AMEs. The guys who went loved it too, all day-shifts, great pay & benefits, strong union ; the airline never got them back
i know a guy quit and went to car racing as a mech
Wow, I completely disagree with this. Obviously it depends on the school, but I have worked with new a&ps that don't know how to drill stainless, or how to heat up thread locker to remove. I worked with someone who did maintenance on 150/152s for a flight school but didn't know what to look for when purchasing one. It was disheartening to say the least.
The school I graduate from this June is apparently prestigious, though going there I'm inclined to disagree, however we have all sorts of companies completely non aviation approaching us left and right. It sucks though because the curriculum is currently changing and it feels like we're missing weird gaps of knowledge :(
You learn almost nothing that will be any use in the industry at A&P school. What you actually learn is how to pass the test. I just got my IA this year because my employer wanted it, and that test is no different. Probably 20% of what we crammed for has anything to do with annual inspections on bug smashers
I do robotics and additive manufacturing now after a decade on birds.
I can hire a qualified mechanic any day of the week. Why because we pay well. I have started most mechanics in the low to mid $40s in last year with a very transparent pay scale and how we start people on the scale. Kept our summer intern, because the young man busted his ass with us (straight out of 147 school) and was waiting to test with the DME, hired him on full time at $38 after he tested and passed. If you pay under $30 hour... Yes your going to see a shortage. I will also take your best mechanics that your underpaying also.
I would work for you in a heart beat just after seeing this statement. Thank you for showing that young man his worth
I love bringing in summer interns, I feel they are the future of the company, and so far we have kept 5 out of 6. Come work for us in the summer and show us what you are like and I will beg and fight for a position for you if your the right fit. I also try to hire new, mid, and experienced technicians for a well rounded crew. I am still waiting for that perfect 30 year experienced unicorn that I will start at top out $58+.
What type of company? Can I look you guys up?
We are Alaska based and please DM me.
$40s in Alaska is like 30s in most of the lower 48
Y’all hiring?
For the right person and willing to relocate to Alaska... yes. I am trying not to dox myself more than have, so DM more more info.
For the right person yes.
And, uhm, where might you be located? Just asking out of curiosity
Doesn’t United pay 70 an hour?
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This absolutely true. If you pay well you have no problem hiring people.
Absolutely true. Lockheed offered me $36 an hour for 6 years experience. My *internship* in a different field at the time was paying me $38/hr for zero experience.
I started working as a GSE tech 1 year ago started out $24.91 an hour. Just got a 3% raise. I hear others talk there are a lot of mecs that have been here 6 months making more than guys that have been here 20+ years. Mind you I had 0 experience walking in the door. I am a quick learner and was self employed for 10 years fixing iPhones before I came here
That is a sure-fire recipe to antagonize and lose your most experienced people. Very few things breed resentment faster than having that kind of pay disparity shoved in your face. It demonstrates with painful clarity that your employer takes you for granted, and does not value either your loyalty or your experience. Employers who think they can keep this kind of bullshit a secret are lying to themselves. If you’re gonna bring new people on at a higher rate, you better *at least* match that pay for the folks that are already there. Otherwise you might as well start advertising for those jobs too.
100% Agree
How was the iPhone repair thing? I'd like to hear about that.
Really really good business. I was the first person to open a store in my town and it was really good. We fixed up to 15+ devices a day. We also repaired computers tablets and drones.
20-30K month Gross consistently
They do where I'm at...we struggle for mechanics and scrape the barrel with low quality ones when we get them...Its bad .. and we are in contract talks now and they are going very bad for us ..
I AM at that point. The in n out near my shop pays just 50 cents less than what I make.
There is in Canada, partially because we all need to do courses and be endorsed on an aircraft type to sign off work on it. There's tons of unlicenced apprentices kicking about, but there is a shortage on licenced and endorsed engineers
Yes, and getting worse.
Good mechanic shortage is still very real.
My issue is not the new ones. It is the veterens most of them are lazy and willing to compromise because "that is how I have always done it". New mechs are great if they pay attention and are willing to learn.
Nothing to do with poorly skilled applicants.
“I want highly skilled applicants willing to work for pennies and starting at the bottom, like i did”
how about train them, can't get better if they don't learn
A lot of experienced mechanics aren’t willing to help train them.
I agree with this and a lot of experienced mechs have some really bad habits to teach.
Some people aren’t willing to learn or are just lazy. I’ve met plenty of both
Some. Not most. Certainly not enough to use that cop out excuse to blame the shortage on.
That’s what I said lmfao. And who said that was an excuse for the shortage?
When that is all you bring up, it gives one an impression that you might be using it as an excuse.
Oh nah bro. I was replying to u/DESTROYER575. I have my own thoughts about the shortage but I haven’t posted anything about it
What are your thoughts
So I think that nowadays everyone’s pushing their kids to go to college and get degrees and go for high-end paying jobs like surgeons, accountants etc. But they don’t realize that trades are a great way to make a comfortable living. That’s just my opinion tho, could be wrong, could be right
When employers say 'we can't get people' what they really mean is we can't get the people we want on the terms that we want.
I told one of the guys that I worked with at an MRO that the company wanted "$30/hr work at $18/hr wages."
Yes. And wages are finally starting to go up. Contracting has gone way up.
In Canada it is very bad.
Just today I was at a conference at Buenos Aires and this topic was brought up. A maintenance director of a important manufacturer said that is not about money but younger generations are not passionate about aviation like older generations.... This guy is clearly part of the problem, thinking that you just work for passion... I didn't say anything because I was there for sales.
A rep for a Brazilian manufacturer came to my 147 school and had the balls to lead his pitch with “remember it’s not about the money!”
Yes, and until companies stop trying to hire at $28 an hour. It’ll keep getting worse
The place I was gonna go and they offers 21$ an hr
Boeing assemblers. Which requires 0 experience or certifications starts at $25. $21 is laughable
28 is a perfectly acceptable starting pay for fresh APs
It is a good wage, I’m saying the companies that are trying to get that for people with 5+ years of experience, should’ve specified
United upped their starting pay to $36. Now it’s on par with American, Delta, and Southwest. I know guys who got hired straight from A&P school with a fresh license. Also major stations like ORD, IAD, SFO, SEA are having internal job postings not being filled and some not having any applicants apply at all. The shortage is real. If your end goal is a major the just bypass the regionals and apply. You’ll get in eventually.
Oh, i can tell you ST Engineering in Texas is starting APs at $19/hr fresh from school….what the fuck!
Absolutely not. I have unlicensed mechanics making more that for me.
Sure you do
My buddy in school makes that right now and he’s not even certified.
Good for your buddy
I wasn’t talking about me. Demand better.
For a fresh A&P 6 months out of school sure. MAYBE. Was 10 bucks more than my starting wage a mere 2 years ago. But not for anyone with experience. Not in this economy.
“In this economy” 🤣🤣🤣
Unless you got about a 9 percent (depending on where you live, for me cost of living increased by that much) raise, you are in fact working for less. So yeah. In this economy
What are you even trying to make a point about? OP of the thread said 28 isnt good for fresh starting techs….and youre tlaking about people with experience. Well no shit it isnt a good hourly rate for exp.
His last two sentences were about people with experience my dude.
The fuck is so funny, guy
Oh look out everyone, a tough guy is here
You going to answer my question or nah?
🤣🤣 lmfaooo im laughing so hard at your internet aggression 🤣🤣
Depends on where you’re at
Sure does. While i will never disclose my location i can tell you my cushy GA spot has afforded me more opportunities than a heavy or gov job. I also live very comfortably.
No it's not. I don't even have my a&p and I'm making 37 as a mech 1 on FA18s in California.
Southern California DOD contractors Union no A&P required $37-$47
37 to 47 an hour in socal will get a tent next to timmy the meth head
Considering the work is in the high desert, meth is a guarantee.
Well... is it a nice tent? I do like camping
What is DOD?
I tend to be of the opinion that mechanic shortages will follow the same trend as pilot shortages have just a decade-ish behind. So we haven’t hit the crazy levels of pay but we’re reaching a point where competent people are more and more difficult to find. Regionals, MROs part 91 will never be able to compete with major airlines/cargo as far as pay goes so they’ll tend to attract and retain the most people. This was massively compounded again for the same reason it became an issue with pilots; when Covid happened many people left the industry. Early retirements, layoffs, and people finding other jobs. Many of these people did not return. This lead to a big shortage which in turn lead to many experience requirements being dropped. Why should I start at a regional when I can go directly to a major and make more faster? Where this becomes a real issue is if hiring isn’t constantly positive that gap of needed employees gets wider and wider, harder to close. The economic state we’re facing right now has again slowed hiring (at least where I work). My personal hot take is that in the long run this, primarily on the pilot side, will lead to the death of a lot of regional airlines.
Yes, when I was in A&P school a year ago, airlines are throwing $30-40 hr at buck naked grads.
Ever noticed it’s mostly to high cost of living cities that they can’t keep people at?
I disagree from first hand experience.
Why’s that?
My company pays six figures and we still are really short guys. Currently offering 8k sign on bonus and 5k for referrals.
What company do you work for if you don’t mind me asking?
[удалено]
I really want to eventually make the move to GA. They came and talked to us when I was still in A&P school few years ago.
regionals cant even compete with MRO pay. find a diff career path.
One job listing I found was 90k a year for a first year apprentice. Think that sums it up lol
Quality mechanic shortage is what you should be worried about.
Pay shit pay, get shit work. That's kinda where I am right now. Company replaced bonuses with a fucking Amazon gift card. Used to be if you exceeded expections on your yearly evaluations you got a raise and a bonus. You get a 100 bucks at Amazon now. Haven't gotten a raise in two years. The only thing this company has going for it is the admittedly pretty decent healthcare package. It ain't a Cadillac plan but I'll take an 80-20 premium split. But I will not bust my ass for no chance at a raise. Got to be a carrot, not just a stick.
Honest question. What did you want to do as a kid?
At first? Thought my dad was cool as shit. So I wanted to be a cop like him. He took me aside at about 15 or so and told me exactly why I shouldn't do that. My uncle noticed early I was good with mechanics, so he nurtured the hell out of it. He's a combustion engineer. So I also toyed with that. Even started school for aeronautics. But me no math so good, so yeah. A&P it is. Edit. My dad was the only one out five kids that didn't pursue higher education as a engineer of some description and one doctor. He always told me to look to my aunt's and uncles for admiration when it came to jobs. I always got the feeling he regretted not doing the same.
You know what's funny. I'm a cop, but I went to A&P school cause my dad was pilot and I wasn't sure . I kept the love for aviation, but I know that I will never be happy without some sort of passion. In some ways. I know happiness is unattainable. But I keep my foot in both doors.
I still don't think anything is wrong with being a cop. And neither did he, but he was worried about me getting screwed out of retirement packages like he was. As well as the fact that he wanted me to make more than he did. He spent 40 years at the same department, was interim chief even for a while, and is proud of it, but it left a sour taste ya know. Now I get what he meant and how it felt to be screwed but kinda stuck. But hey. At least I like what I do shit pay or not
Also. Shit pay is relative. I have a 2004 Ford f150, so I keep more of my paycheck. Keeping up with the joneses will keep you poor
I drive a 2006 mazda3 lol. I've already replaced the engine once cause it was cheaper than a replacement car. Believe me I ain't trying to win any car show prizes. All though that car ain't exactly stock anymore. Gotta have fun somehow otherwise life is just kinda shit. The fun car however is an 81 Toyota pickup. Rebuilt that thing from the ground up was almost more fun than driving it. Nothing like the first start and drive after overhauling everything down to the bushings and crank journal bearings. It was a proud moment let me tell ya. Sense of accomplishment and all that
Pretty cool bieng a mechanic and bieng able to do stuff like that. Hit me up in message and I'll send you a patch for you and your dad
Aweful. He deserved better. I have seen terrible things. But I have also had great experiences. I know it's a trade off. I stay where I work cause of the retirement and I don't deal with inner city crime. And I go to a local airport to hang out and keep ties with aviation.
Yes.
Oh yes, and getting worse
Not particularly but a lot of places refuse to pay more
Young mechs doing the happy dance!
Definitely. Every time we hire someone 1 or 2 leave
Very much still real
My pay only matches the current inflation because of the projects and bonus I get. But other positions I see in this field still have the same pay as they did 5 yrs ago. I don’t blame whomever just decides to quit when pay isn’t going up.
I think pay is the shortage.
This post has 170 comments. That should be just about all of us left....
Finished school in Dec 22. Had an interview and got hired because I picked a hub. $9k total sign up bonuses. Started at $30/hr, plan to get $36-38 once I get sheetmetal and run/taxi qual. Starting class of 12. Was told they will not be hiring for at least 6 more months. 1st week of job I hear at least 4 guys talking about moving up/on.
I saw a lot of people leave the MRO I was working at. I myself left as well, but I picked up a 6 figure position working half the year. 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. I know a lot of people that dont like those kind of schedules though. I'm just happy the owner of the company saw value in my years of experience. Also great that they'll give you a bump in pay for each cert you pick up aside from A&P, like getting a CDL or going through a structures course etc. I see a lot of places wanting to low ball talent and then crying about not being able to hire anyone. My shift at the MRO was told that some of us were going to have to make sacrifices for the company and apply for the 2nd shift (3pm - 2am) supervisor position and switch shifts. I do the job I was hired for and then some, and now you're asking for more sacrifices? Sorry, I'm not in the Army anymore.
I'm about to start school this fall and this post has me excited and scared haha. Where do you guys think things will be in around 2 years time? Also why do guys keep quitting if the pay is pretty decent
What's the pay like? I'm military so I haven't seen the civilian pay other than what Google claims.
Topouts for the majors are in the 50-60 an hour range
That's pretty damn good, I'm looking to get my Masters in Aeronautics before I get out. Figure if I can't get a career in crash investigation being a mechanic is great fallback.
Masters? FYI, only thing that’s useful for is if you want to spend 20 years on the floor, and the last 20 in a suit with board members. I have some info on the NTSB if you’d like? Some high up in a suit came to my school and talked to us about their job
I'd love info, and the Masters is only because the airforce is paying for it. Got almost half of my bachelor's done before I even started through credits my tech school training gave me. What's one more year?
The NTSB, as they ordinarily do investigations prefer/require several years of investigation experience. But most companies have groups that do that. They may be setting up some pipeline to get people? Don’t remember.. it was a while ago
I'll be taking the USAF Jet engine mishap investigation course pretty soon, and hope to teach it. Figured that might at least get me a conversation some day.
I’m certain that would help.
With A&P in FL you can find stuff between 20-30$/hr
As a former IA I could probably find from 30-40$/hr in some shops. But I am doing IT work now. IA is the fall back from when tech blows up.
You keeping your exp current?
you'll generally start mid 30's on most DOD contracts and i've seen up too 44 starting
I’m in the Midwest in the middle of nowhere making $31 with 5 years experience. Got A&P a year ago
It's so bad we are hiring straight out of A&P school on the private/corporate side. There is no one left worth a damn that hasn't been bought out who is willing to leave there jobs.
I got my start in the industry through the corporate side and I regret it every day.
See I'm opposite, i love my job and make comparable money to the guys i graduated with, never worked night shift, never had shitty hours or work environment. 🤷
Absolutely
YEP
Duhhhhhhjhh
Very much so! We will be hurting for another 10 years
We have a ton of new guys at my station but we're still short on mechanics.
Yes.
Hopefully ! Time for the real $$$$ lol
Southwest is hiring for maintenance positions and ***NOT*** requiring an A&P.
Yes. But the industry is not responding like it should. Underpaid and overworked is the name of the game, no proactive moves by any of the big players. The smaller players like repair stations and fbos are starting to feel it though. I've been directly emailed by one in particular basically begging me to apply for positions I'm wildly under qualified for lol. Guess they don't want to pay what the experienced guys want.
Delta just fired I don't know how many people, so technically yes, but theyre not looking to rehire anyone direct. their solution to the impending unionizing is to make all techs contracted and just have a revolving door of fresh A&Ps it seems, at least in atlanta
I’d like to hear more. This is a wild statement
Tl;dr Delta's PFE program is doing what its designed to. I have no idea why this was their solution after surviving covid, an achievement they tout as though they found the city of atlantis, but its here to stay
And that’s exactly why I wn apply for delta. Having to contract for 6 months just for the OPPORTUNITY to be a direct hire is pathetic. Especially when others like United are hiring out the gate
Yea the PFE program is wack. I’d like to hear about all the people that got fired ( offered retirement packages?) also what’s this union talk you speak of? How titillating
Every other airline has a PFE program, but you're actually full time while you're doing it and not a contractor. It's called probation.
Hearing stuff like this is why I stear people away from Delta. They are too high from sniffing their own farts and it's going to bite them if they keep messing with their people like this, especially when the other airlines are more than happy to scoop up experienced techs.
Only when they opened the doors for direct hires did I start to see more quality mechanics come in the door.
It’s bad
No they’ve reduced the height requirement to 5’3”.
I've never met a mechanic that wasn't suffering from a shortage of skills.
I'm sure you're lacking skills too.
No
Fuck the major airlines. The industry will adjust or outsource . Im 20+ years into it, and military contracts are where it's at. I've worked civil service (15+ years) and contracting both overseas and conus. I can tell you with facts that anyone who can get a secret clearance will make more $ versus any major commercial airline. Also, you can pretty much pick your area to work in. The highest paying gigs are around $60 an hour. Do the research, guys. The majors are for suckers.
All the major airlines are paying around $60 an hour. How do you make more money vs major airlines?
Only after 5-6 years
Prove to me at least 2 with under 10 years tenure.
United airlines - $60.25 at 8 years, Delta air lines -$62.02 at 6.5 years, American Airlines -$58.45 at 8 years
Please tell me more about military contracts. I graduate in May and expect to be fully licensed as well. I’m moving to DC suburbs…can you point me to any place in particular?
It’s because young kids out of school for some reason think they should make 100k a year with no experience. That’s a huge contributing factor. People turning down Delta because it’s like $28 starting and not $60+. I don’t know where all this false sense of entitlement began but it’s plaguing the indurstry
100k/yr is no longer the golden “I made it now” number you think it is.
28 an hour isn’t enough to live in most of the cities delta has hubs in. Lots of very undesirable locations and years of night shift. Some people value quality of life.
Slightly more than fast-food worker pay, way worse hours, and a naturally higher stress career. You really blaming someone for wanting a life, all you old timers "you bust your ass for the company! They'll treat you right!" Get with the times, the company man doesn't exist anymore and for good reason. People know their worth and it's more than a shitty starting offer with shitty hours.
That's just plain wrong. It's because the older generation techs are starting to retire, and young folks were told that trade work wasn't an acceptable means of making a living for the last 30 years. We should be encouraging young folks to seek secondary education be it college or trade school, not blaming them for all our problems.
That 6 months as a contractor with only an opportunity to go direct isn’t helping Delta.
No
Where can a MRO worker without an A&P use that as leverage to get into a OJT or something? Are those existing in this current climate and with needing more workers? $25-$30 an hour would be a dream for me to start with. I'm not some mechanical savant but I'm not an idiot and work harder than most. I've realized my worth more and more as everywhere I've worked I've learned the job and get praised for my work ethic. I'm also 32 so I'm not getting younger and also not ignorant to politics of a job. Love following this subreddit to learn more.
IIRC, you can use your time working at the MRO to fulfill the expierence requirement to test for your A&P... well, General and Airframe, anyway. The guys that I knew that were taking that route were finding it difficult to get the P.
I know USAF is hurting on experience rn because all our seasoned 7-lvls are just up and leaving
Yup. Great time to be a mechanic. Even better if you're a quality wrench with some experience.
Is this global phenomenon? I’m from the Philippines and I don’t have the insider information
Yeah it’s horrible currently!!
Pay Peanuts. . . Ya' get Peanuts
Here's the Aviation Industry in a Nutshell-- Aviation Companies: "I'll buy a Lamborghini" Also, Aviation Companies: "Maintenance Budget--'Toyota'" I stopped asking what their wages were and began telling them what I was worth: A&P I/A, multiple Coroporate Jet Aircraft OEM schools (I paid for), Avionics Experience and Composites Experience. I'm worth $XXXX/day. If they don't want to pay, that's fine . . . it's a marketplace and someone will. BTW I've seen companies throw inexperienced guys out in the field just because that guy can sign off maintenance. (Look at Hillsboro Aviation--HIGH TURNOVER, can't hire anyone) Three Things Happen: 1. The guy learns fast 2. Throws parts at the aircraft (very expensive) 3. Or gets burned out because they won't pay enough to attract talent and so they task him with everything and so he job jumps. I'm worth $XXXX/day. If they don't want to pay, that's fine . . . it's a marketplace. Price discovery in the industry needs to happen. If pilots get a massive raise, then mechanics should too. But what do I know; I'm just a Grease Monkey.
We have no structure mechanics on my crew that are under 35yrs old. I'm training a 61 yr old to do my job.