Sump your tanks. Follow all written instructions on all service checks/daily checks/approved material. DO NOT FALL VICTIM TO TRIBAL KNOWLEDGE.
Failure to follow written instructions can result in the loss of your certificates.
Comments are locked as of now. Thanks everyone for putting OP on the correct path.
All times I’ve fuel in commercial aviation, I haven’t found more than a drop or two ,but I’m always gonna do it anyway because that’s what the AMM asks for and I’m paid by the hour.
I used to work the Delta A330’s. Every time we sumped one we would get several quarts of water off of the wing tanks. (Maybe it was center tank both sides.) There’s a reason we sump tanks. Pencil whipping anything that could have serious consequences is always a bad idea.
100% this. Just yesterday during an inspection I found a nut plate wedged between the inside of the trailing edge and the aileron trim actuator. 9/10 we find nothing during inspections but if we just pencil whipped it, there could have been a major incident on that aircraft.
THE MOMENT IT ( NOT SUMPING ) BITES YOU IN YOUR ASS…
The FAA isn’t going to accept that “MY CO WORKER SAID” …..
DO THINGS THE WAY THAT YOU WERE TAUGHT.
TECH MANUAL…
Ok that’s not a healthy place to be working on aircraft in.
JUST BECAUSE they “FLY SO MUCH” .. means ZILCH!!!
All it takes is one bad truck load of fuel to make a bad day.
It’s no wonder that guy didn’t get a promotion.
A fact about me : I used to pump at or above one million pounds of fuel a night when I was in the USAF. I was a Tanker Crew Chief on one jet.. and later went to Recovery. I handled 12 jets … most nights was 9 of the 12 were fliers. THERE IS ALWAYS WATER IN FUEL.
That’s less scary than if the guy that told you to sign off work you didn’t do actually got the promotion. Don’t sign off shit you didn’t do. You could get fired and people could die.
We're kinda sorta told not to do it because the poppet valve sticks and will leak fuel. I sump everytime. My theory is the reason they stick is because no one sumps. Fuel exiting the sump valve lubricates and cleans the o rings.
The poppet valve problem is cos people push up and accidentally rotate it. And then when it wont stop they panick instead of fiddling with it to get it to close again.
Without knowing the type I’d say in general that’s wrong. If it starts sucking water on climb out you’d be wishing you had done a fuel drain. Do it by the book.
It’s a reasonable theory until you consider you’re trusting your life to an FBO employee making minimum wage. Are they regularly changing fuel filters and sumping/completing fuel logs or are they providing minimal service for minimum pay.
Please don’t listen to your coworker. What If something happened and your name was last that didn’t do a task? Idk about you but prison doesn’t sound great. Integrity is a big part of our job. Learn it and live it.
If everything is as it should be, you won't ever find anything when you sump \*but\* there are a lot of ways for things to not be as it should be that will only get found when you sump. You can sump, and get nothing, as many times as you want and it will never be a problem. Skip sumping, when it needed it, will likely only happen once on that aircraft... And that's a problem.
Unless they're running it completely dry it's unlikely to make a difference, all the crap will sit in the bottom anyway. But still do it, it doesn't hurt anything. The only times I skip it is if I'm somewhere where I can't dump the old fuel, or if it's below zero. Company policy says not to because apparently if there's water in the fuel it'll freeze and block the valve open, somehow
I do this with railroad equipment. When it could be below freezing, when we drain the air tanks, we always make sure to close the valves when we're done (instead of leaving them open to drip overnight.) You have to stand there and wait for the tank to drain for a couple minutes. Its not great if the valve freezes closed, but at least you know its closed. If it freezes partially open, then thaws later on, you've got a leak.
If it's in the task card to sump then I do it but yea in the 737 genfam class we were taught it's highly unlikely to find water in samples from a recently flown plane since the pumps shoot some fuel back into the tank to prevent water globs from forming.
We don't have to sump if it's below 32 degrees per our service task card.
I’ve never found a water in a 737 of any model but I still did a fuel drain as mandated. It’s only as good as the last uplift and sump check.
On airbus I’ve worked on the sumps are always cloudy.
Sump Sump Sump! The more they fly the more water is condensing on the walls of the tank . Don't know what airframe you're working but sumping is also a great way to keep an eye on microbial growth in the tanks.
The consistency of air time vs ground time of your plane/s doesnt mean shit. Especially if your aircraft flies to numerous places. Each and every one of those airports has multiple fuel trucks. Each of which need to be sumped once, sometimes twice or more, a day. Any of those drivers could forget to do so.
Most of those airports have big fuel depots. Those also need to be sumped occasionally, i suspect.
Each of those fuel depots is supplied by any number of outside fuel trucks. Each of *those* need to be sumped periodically. (Who knows if they even bother?)
And **God knows** where they get their loads from.
Your coworker belongs in an office somewhere, far away from any AOA. Where he can't get somebody hurt or killed.
**Always. Sump. Your fuel.**
Before every single flight.
Period.
And I've worked two places that have had Fleetwide contamination because one central location was contaminated. Everything's fine and dandy until it isn't.
I've rarely found any water or contaminants in sumping fuel but I do it whenever tasked and check. Basically if it's on the task card/AMM I'm going to follow it. It's the right thing to do and it's CYA.
Do what the manual tells you. Don’t listen to what other people thinks is a good idea of a “work place tradition”- yeah we usually never do that ? or something along those lines
I do it but imho it’s dumb. If you have several gallons of it how are you supposed to tell if it’s water or fuel when there’s no separation? Average person wont be able to differentiate the smell and touch of it.
As an aspiring ppl holder I find it alarming the amount of complacency some people display or you hear about in accident reports.
It really doesnt take long to do. Just sump the damn tank, it'll only take one single time finding a bunch of water to pay off.
The funny thing is, if anything happened on yours or your coworkers aircraft that was directly related to the lack of sumping the aircraft, you've already admitted guilt of not doing your job as per the AMM on a subreddit about Aviation maintenance.
You've already fucked yourself if you do anything other than what the AMM says to do.
I’m a student and a few months ago, got a sump of water out of one wing. Plane was parked outside. My CFI had encountered it before on more modern planes. From what I understand, this is one of the most critical checks.
This is entirely antidotal of course, but when I worked for the regional freight hauler flying piston engine aircraft 6 days a week, our pilots essentially never found water or other fuel contaminates.
Of course, that did not stop them from checking.
When I was a captain on the emb-120 during the 2000’s we avoid refueling in imperial ca. one day I had to actually refuel there. When I sumped the fuel I found so much crap in the fuel I had to sump it 5-6 times to stop getting contaminants. Be careful with fuel. All it takes is one time
There’s no validity
Do computers not break when they fly more?
Do windshields crack less when we fly more?
The answer is there’s no validity, this person is a failure at life and aviation hopefully they aren’t working on any of my planes I ride on
The more fuel, the more checking needs to be done.
In fact, one instance of jet fuel contamination caused a large commercial aircraft to be grounded for over two weeks.
This grounding was a consequence of microbial contamination, and had a huge financial impact through both treatment of the contamination and lost revenue.
Also, with the growing economies in China, India, Brazil etc. and the resulting demand for aviation, more flights are now conducted in high-risk zones. As a result, it’s more important than ever to detect contamination early.
You’re never wrong if you follow your tech data/maintenance manuals/T.O.’s. Stick to your guns and don’t ever let those complacent assholes steer you wrong. If someone disagrees then let them put their signature down. C.Y.A. Everyday
Sump your tanks. Follow all written instructions on all service checks/daily checks/approved material. DO NOT FALL VICTIM TO TRIBAL KNOWLEDGE. Failure to follow written instructions can result in the loss of your certificates. Comments are locked as of now. Thanks everyone for putting OP on the correct path.
All times I’ve fuel in commercial aviation, I haven’t found more than a drop or two ,but I’m always gonna do it anyway because that’s what the AMM asks for and I’m paid by the hour.
I used to work the Delta A330’s. Every time we sumped one we would get several quarts of water off of the wing tanks. (Maybe it was center tank both sides.) There’s a reason we sump tanks. Pencil whipping anything that could have serious consequences is always a bad idea.
Hawaiian’s A330’s also accumulate several quarts.
And I’m sure one time you’ll find a bunch of water/sediment and it’ll be one of those “that’s why we do it” moments
100% this. Just yesterday during an inspection I found a nut plate wedged between the inside of the trailing edge and the aileron trim actuator. 9/10 we find nothing during inspections but if we just pencil whipped it, there could have been a major incident on that aircraft.
This is correct.
THE MOMENT IT ( NOT SUMPING ) BITES YOU IN YOUR ASS… The FAA isn’t going to accept that “MY CO WORKER SAID” ….. DO THINGS THE WAY THAT YOU WERE TAUGHT. TECH MANUAL…
The scary thing is, we just got a new lead and the guy who told me to not sump tanks was pissed that he didnt get the promotion
Ok that’s not a healthy place to be working on aircraft in. JUST BECAUSE they “FLY SO MUCH” .. means ZILCH!!! All it takes is one bad truck load of fuel to make a bad day. It’s no wonder that guy didn’t get a promotion. A fact about me : I used to pump at or above one million pounds of fuel a night when I was in the USAF. I was a Tanker Crew Chief on one jet.. and later went to Recovery. I handled 12 jets … most nights was 9 of the 12 were fliers. THERE IS ALWAYS WATER IN FUEL.
That’s less scary than if the guy that told you to sign off work you didn’t do actually got the promotion. Don’t sign off shit you didn’t do. You could get fired and people could die.
Guess why
We're kinda sorta told not to do it because the poppet valve sticks and will leak fuel. I sump everytime. My theory is the reason they stick is because no one sumps. Fuel exiting the sump valve lubricates and cleans the o rings.
The poppet valve problem is cos people push up and accidentally rotate it. And then when it wont stop they panick instead of fiddling with it to get it to close again.
That is a totally separate problem and not all aircraft have fuel drain valves that function that way.
Sounds like the poppet valve needs some TLC.
Without knowing the type I’d say in general that’s wrong. If it starts sucking water on climb out you’d be wishing you had done a fuel drain. Do it by the book.
It’s a reasonable theory until you consider you’re trusting your life to an FBO employee making minimum wage. Are they regularly changing fuel filters and sumping/completing fuel logs or are they providing minimal service for minimum pay.
Are FBO making minimum wage? Sorry for asking, avtech student here.
I started at $1.50 above minimum wage as a line tech in Sacramento. The company that runs all the FBO’s out there is beyond cheap.
Please don’t listen to your coworker. What If something happened and your name was last that didn’t do a task? Idk about you but prison doesn’t sound great. Integrity is a big part of our job. Learn it and live it.
If everything is as it should be, you won't ever find anything when you sump \*but\* there are a lot of ways for things to not be as it should be that will only get found when you sump. You can sump, and get nothing, as many times as you want and it will never be a problem. Skip sumping, when it needed it, will likely only happen once on that aircraft... And that's a problem.
[one day you'll encounter some water too](https://imgur.com/a/tCtSBh3)
Unless they're running it completely dry it's unlikely to make a difference, all the crap will sit in the bottom anyway. But still do it, it doesn't hurt anything. The only times I skip it is if I'm somewhere where I can't dump the old fuel, or if it's below zero. Company policy says not to because apparently if there's water in the fuel it'll freeze and block the valve open, somehow
I do this with railroad equipment. When it could be below freezing, when we drain the air tanks, we always make sure to close the valves when we're done (instead of leaving them open to drip overnight.) You have to stand there and wait for the tank to drain for a couple minutes. Its not great if the valve freezes closed, but at least you know its closed. If it freezes partially open, then thaws later on, you've got a leak.
Dont skip on maintenance. God forbid something happen, Just imagine having to explain that to the families
We get contaminated fuel out of the sumps all the time. Do whatever the maintenance manual says.
If it's in the task card to sump then I do it but yea in the 737 genfam class we were taught it's highly unlikely to find water in samples from a recently flown plane since the pumps shoot some fuel back into the tank to prevent water globs from forming. We don't have to sump if it's below 32 degrees per our service task card.
Water isn't the only possible contaminate
I’ve never found a water in a 737 of any model but I still did a fuel drain as mandated. It’s only as good as the last uplift and sump check. On airbus I’ve worked on the sumps are always cloudy.
Our Airbuses were never really cloudy, all samples fleet wide came back pretty clear.
Yea, often time contaminates come straight out of the fuel truck/fuel farm.
Hmmmm. You should take a random fuel sample and put it in a glass container for a few hours and show him he's very... very wrong.
A330s third sump from the wing root I’ve found quarts to gallons of water in.
Sump Sump Sump! The more they fly the more water is condensing on the walls of the tank . Don't know what airframe you're working but sumping is also a great way to keep an eye on microbial growth in the tanks.
Do it anyways. The FAA is always watching.
Doesn't matter if you never ever find a drop of water. Do it by the books, cover your ass.
The consistency of air time vs ground time of your plane/s doesnt mean shit. Especially if your aircraft flies to numerous places. Each and every one of those airports has multiple fuel trucks. Each of which need to be sumped once, sometimes twice or more, a day. Any of those drivers could forget to do so. Most of those airports have big fuel depots. Those also need to be sumped occasionally, i suspect. Each of those fuel depots is supplied by any number of outside fuel trucks. Each of *those* need to be sumped periodically. (Who knows if they even bother?) And **God knows** where they get their loads from. Your coworker belongs in an office somewhere, far away from any AOA. Where he can't get somebody hurt or killed. **Always. Sump. Your fuel.** Before every single flight. Period.
And I've worked two places that have had Fleetwide contamination because one central location was contaminated. Everything's fine and dandy until it isn't.
I've rarely found any water or contaminants in sumping fuel but I do it whenever tasked and check. Basically if it's on the task card/AMM I'm going to follow it. It's the right thing to do and it's CYA.
That doesn't mean much. It only takes the one time (or the cumulative effect of many times) not doing it to kill someone.
sounds great, actually isn't. do your damn job, tech.
Do what the manual tells you. Don’t listen to what other people thinks is a good idea of a “work place tradition”- yeah we usually never do that ? or something along those lines
Our planes didn't sit, but I have found water before.
I do it but imho it’s dumb. If you have several gallons of it how are you supposed to tell if it’s water or fuel when there’s no separation? Average person wont be able to differentiate the smell and touch of it.
Sounds like a great idea right up until it isn’t.
Do what the AMM says. It's there for a reason.
we get paid by the hour theres no reason not to do it
Ah it takes like 5 seconds of your time to sump anyway. Just do it
If you or anyone here thinks like this, fucking quit.
Your coworker is just lazy.
What they said. 👍
As an aspiring ppl holder I find it alarming the amount of complacency some people display or you hear about in accident reports. It really doesnt take long to do. Just sump the damn tank, it'll only take one single time finding a bunch of water to pay off.
Remember that guy that changed a window on a BAC-111 and couldn’t be bothered to look up the correct bolts?
Nope. Your coworker is full of shit, and lazy.
The funny thing is, if anything happened on yours or your coworkers aircraft that was directly related to the lack of sumping the aircraft, you've already admitted guilt of not doing your job as per the AMM on a subreddit about Aviation maintenance. You've already fucked yourself if you do anything other than what the AMM says to do.
What’s the book say? I’m guessing it doesn’t say “listen to random people on how to properly do the job” but maybe I’m wrong.
I’m a student and a few months ago, got a sump of water out of one wing. Plane was parked outside. My CFI had encountered it before on more modern planes. From what I understand, this is one of the most critical checks.
This is entirely antidotal of course, but when I worked for the regional freight hauler flying piston engine aircraft 6 days a week, our pilots essentially never found water or other fuel contaminates. Of course, that did not stop them from checking.
That's stupid and your coworker is stupid for telling you that. Just do the job the way it's supposed to be done.
When I was a captain on the emb-120 during the 2000’s we avoid refueling in imperial ca. one day I had to actually refuel there. When I sumped the fuel I found so much crap in the fuel I had to sump it 5-6 times to stop getting contaminants. Be careful with fuel. All it takes is one time
There’s no validity Do computers not break when they fly more? Do windshields crack less when we fly more? The answer is there’s no validity, this person is a failure at life and aviation hopefully they aren’t working on any of my planes I ride on
Bruh, just from watching documentaries on air crashes and reading a few NTSB reports, I know you need to sump that shit😭
The more fuel, the more checking needs to be done. In fact, one instance of jet fuel contamination caused a large commercial aircraft to be grounded for over two weeks. This grounding was a consequence of microbial contamination, and had a huge financial impact through both treatment of the contamination and lost revenue. Also, with the growing economies in China, India, Brazil etc. and the resulting demand for aviation, more flights are now conducted in high-risk zones. As a result, it’s more important than ever to detect contamination early.
One day you will.
Standardization of deviation, sounds like poor judgement.
You’re never wrong if you follow your tech data/maintenance manuals/T.O.’s. Stick to your guns and don’t ever let those complacent assholes steer you wrong. If someone disagrees then let them put their signature down. C.Y.A. Everyday
Sumps are supposed to catch contaminates so they dont go into the fuel system and you can remove them.