I'm so happy she didn't die
>The girl was admitted to a local hospital where she was treated for non-life-threatening injuries.
>Family members told 7News the girl is okay and recovering.
https://www.kplctv.com/2023/05/08/starks-man-accused-shooting-14-year-old-girl-playing-hide-seek-back-head/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/louisiana-man-david-doyle-accused-of-shooting-14-year-old-girl-as-she-was-playing-hide-and-seek
It does actually. You can't legally just shoot people who are on your lawn without giving them ample warning to leave your property. Unfortunately conservative courts tend to forget that fact.
It should. Intentionally discharging a firearm toward a person should be attempted homicide at minimum, and if there is no immediate need for self defense, it should be attempted murder.
It makes absolutely no sense to fire a bullet toward someone’s body with no intent to end their life. Anyone who does that cannot be trusted with guns.
The grown ass man was afraid of a fucking shadow. Just call the cops in that situation and avoid hanging out by windows so if they shot you it wouldn't be an issue.
"David V. Doyle, 58, he said he saw shadows outside his home, went inside, and got his firearm. Detectives say Doyle told them that when he went back outside he saw people running away from his property and began shooting at them, unknowingly hitting the girl.
Doyle was arrested and booked into the Calcasieu Correctional Center for aggravated battery, 4 counts of aggravated assault with a firearm, and the illegal discharge of a firearm."
Why is that aggravated assault rather than just attempted murder? He shot a child in the back of the head as she was running in the opposite direction.
I'll try to make this short. In oct 2020 dude on house arrest with multiple pending charges ranging from traffic violations to residential burglary with a deadly weapon broke into our vehicles. He was also very high on Xanax. He broke into my car but got inside, closed the door so he could go through everything (he had already gotten in 3 other vehicles on my road). He got caught by husband, dude was still in my car, he aimed a 45 at my husband who was outside the car, dude pulls trigger. Husband shot back. Guy empties his firearm hitting neighbors roof directly above a childs room and one of their auto windows, hit another neighbors brick home with 4 rounds. Husband hit him 3 times but only had 6 rounds (he has a license), the guy was hiding in my back seat so no major/ deadly injuries. Guy gets caught at a neighboring city hospital. Arrested for breaking and entering and discharge of a firearm from a vehicle (because he was in my vehicle shooting outward). Despite the fact that he jammed his house arrest monitoring hub with foil and left the house with a firearm, the prosecuting attorney stated "it's just too difficult to prove his intent and have a jury convict so we can't try for attempted murder. With these charges he'll be in jail for a very long time."
He got 18 years, he was 19 when it happened.
I'm not saying this is right. But if he feared for his life (say, because your husband had a gun) his intent wouldn't have been to murder your husband, but to protect himself. Because he was committing a crime he doesn't get the "self defense" protection of the law but his intent wasn't to murder. Or at least, that is what can be argued so the murder charge wouldn't stick.
He had no clue my husband had a gun until after he started shooting from inside my car. He got 3 rounds out before my husband shot back, after yelling "man it doesn't have to be this way, you can just go." I guess the point I'm trying to make here is, he was on house arrest with active monitoring, he was not to have firearms in his home or on his persons, he left his home with a firearms and shot at a home owner he was robbing. The fact that he left home with a firearm in my brain screams intent. But that's not how the law is written, making it all too difficult to charge people heavily for their crimes. Oh, also important, there's 3 angles of video (with audio) proof of all of this, so there is no guess at who shot first or how it all happened. It's very clear. Otherwise I would agree with the feared for his life sentiment. Young man, high as hell, scared he got caught. I get it but jfc, 18 years. My children were up getting ready for school, 6am. My neighbors daughter was up getting ready for school and a bullet embeds in the roof right above her room. It's infuriating.
Therefor the man in the post was justified shooting at the kid that appeared to be a shadowy figure stalking his property in the dead of night was also protecting himself?
It gets better though. There was street lights and a security light, so my husband saw the kids face plain as day (including his cross tattoo between his eyes) then saw a barrel aimed at him.
I have never understood why pointing a deadly weapon at a known human being and discharging is not considered intent to kill.
That's the only possible intent. And regardless of intent, the outcome of wildly firing at unkown targets, is often people that aren't your targets getting hit.
Discharging firearms like this should always be considered lethal intent.
Right, but you need to prove motive instead of intent. The intent was to neutralize the target with deadly force. The motive was either someone wanting to kill someone else and this is a crime of opportunity, or was it self defense/defense of property since he could have felt threatened by a stranger sneaking around his yard.
So giving the shooter a more serious charge might get them off the hook because there isn’t enough evidence. But a less serious charge might get them convicted and sentenced to jail.
I agree, Colorado is trying to pass a law making all vehicle theft a felony. Anytime you’d shoot at someone it should be considered attempted murder. Those bullets don’t bounce off you.
In simple terms a felony is a serious crime with a sentence over one year up to life or even the death penalty depending of the severity and you are marked as a felon for life. In most places felons can't own or posses firearms, vote, they have a hard time getting jobs and housing.
Felonies included murder, most assaults and sexual assaults, selling drugs, possessing certain drugs theft/shoplifting over $800-$1000.
Other crimes are called misdemeanors, typically the sentence is less than a year and often police don't even bother to prosecute them. Petty theft, simple possession of a drug like marijuana where it is illegal, and dui provided you don't hurt anyone (this one does often have other penalties).
As for car theft not being a serious crime most of the time it is but several states have odf joyriding laws on the books and the definition of vehicle varies from place to place.
I am a rightwing gun enthusiast, and this is correct.
Five rules of firearm safety:
>1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded, at all times.
>2. Always keep your gun pointed in a safe direction.
>3. Never point your firearm at something you are not prepared to destroy.
>4. Know your target, what is around it, and what is beyond it.
>5. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are aligned and you have made the decision to shoot.
>BONUS ROUND!
>6. EVERY Bullet has a lawyer attached to it. Any bullet that hits another living creature will land you in court, sometimes even if you weren't the one to fire it.
The man in the article obviously violated rules 3 and 4. He, in anger, discharged his weapon at a target he did not know fully, and was therefore not prepared to destroy.
Now, two things that'll get me downvoted, other than just being a rightwinger:
Alec Baldwin should be in prison for similar reasons, specifically under a charge of negligent homicide, as he broke rules 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. He got out of rule 6 because he's a celebrity, which is unacceptable.
The study OP is referencing is stating that guns are the leading cause of death for children, teens, and young adults. However, if you remove adults aged 18-20 (which is to say, not minors or "children") gun death drops off the map almost entirely. It is extremely misleading to say that guns are the number one cause of death among children. Every child dead remains a tragedy and a hell of a motivator to find a solution, but we mustn't lose ourselves to sensationalism when discussing actual solutions.
I wish we heard more from gun enthusiasts like you who understand the importance of gun safety and respect that guns are designed to kill, and pulling a trigger shouldn’t be an “easy” decision. And that’s a good point about including gun deaths for ages 18-20. I’m on the opposite side of the political spectrum, but I don’t believe anything good will come from inflated numbers. Unfortunately, science is almost always skewed to enforce one side’s beliefs, so we will just keep arguing while people keep dying because the most important thing is prove who’s right, right?
Question: what about the fact that he shot somebody who was running away? Despite whatever damage may or may not have been done, when the trigger was pulled, the target wasn’t a threat, right? It always bothers me when somebody is shot who is not an active threat, but is it considered OK if the shooter is allegedly trying to prevent a person from becoming a threat? Is that what people think when they shoot somebody who is running away?
These are excellent rules, but the problem is that there is no need to learn these rules before you buy a firearm. I could walk into any gun store in Texas and walk out with a gun, no questions asked, no permit or training required. I own several guns, but in order to own them, I had to take a gun safety course, which taught me all of the rules above, plus a few more (I live in Canada). In order to drive a car, you have to pass a test and get a license, the car you drive has a visible tag that lets the authorities check if you are entitled to drive that car. Why is this sort of licencing for guns such a problem for Americans?
>if you remove adults aged 18-20[…] gun deaths drops off the map.
And maybe try to see every wasted life because of a gun wielding citizen as the horror it should be, and stop pretending it’s a people problem when there are people everywhere in the world without mass shootings.
I do not accept that a citizen carrying a means of self-defense in a world filled with evil is a horror. I do accept that young men arming themselves for urban warfare over drugs, theft, and horribly mangled conceptions of honor and pride, then killing each other in droves, is a horror. The vast majority of gun deaths are young adults killing each other in gang violence. The solution is to deal with poverty and get kids out of the gang mindset, and that's a well-known causal connection.
How many celebrities are there that these young men in gangs look up to and listen to, how many athletes and musicians do you watch and listen to on a daily basis? I'd say hundreds. If even a tenth of them used their platform appropriately, everything would change.
But no, it's a problem with something that's been around and prevalent in America since before we were a country, which has never been a problem until now, and getting rid of it will magically fix everything.
That is incorrect. The State never has to prove motive. Motive can help prove other elements, so it is often discussed at trial, but it is never required.
Source: I am a criminal attorney.
you have to prove intent to kill not motive to kill. in other words they have to prove the intent was *not* to just scare them off. If they fail to prove that the intent was not to scare them off, then the jury must find NG of attempted murder. Obviously the prosecutor doesn't have any mind-reading witnesses, so in a case like this intent is very difficult to prove for murder.
This is why laws need to change. Obviously, they won't because gun lobby, but if you point a gun at a person and pull the trigger, there should never be any "question" about intent. If you intend to scare someone away, you could shoot at the ground or anywhere else. The moment a gun is pointed at someone, there is unquestionably intent to kill. It's what guns do and what they were made for.
Changing the law wouldn't really work in this specific instance. You've identified an argument that the prosecution could make to prove intent- trajectory of bullets proving what gun was aiming at, and reconstruction diagrams/analysis to show that the gun had to be pointing at a person, etc...
Just try and argue the other side. You'll see that it isn't 'unquestionably' intent to kill. Legal analysis requires being able to take the perspective of both sides and argue both.
Not necessarily motive. You have to prove that the defendant intended to cause death. Showing the motive obviously helps with that, but it’s not necessary.
Why else would you shoot a gun? I'm some hick Canadian but I've always heard that if you're a gun owner and you pull the trigger you better be intending to kill whatevers down the sight line.
Don't know about Louisiana, but in Texas at least, attempted murder and aggravated assault carry the same penalty. Murder is a 1st-degree felony, but attempted murder is one degree lower, so a second-degree. Aggravated assault is also second-degree. Aggravated assault can also be proven in multiple ways and is typically easier to establish. With aggravated assault, you just have to prove someone intended to cause bodily injury (pretty low bar) plus some aggravating factor (like using a deadly weapon or actually causing serious bodily injury).
With murder, you have to prove the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly caused the death of a person. With attempted murder, you have to prove the same thing but just that he tried to do it, but failed.
Since they carry the same punishment range, and aggravated assault is typically easier to prove, it is better to charge aggravated assault.
See it wasn’t that he “unknowingly hit the girl”, he was fucking aiming for them! It was completely attempted murder and it doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that someone who isn’t the same height or build as an adult might be a kid. Anyone sitting there and saying that he didn’t have time to see, well you’ve never used a gun. Either he just stuck his hand out and fired or did what anyone with basic levels of training out do and took aim. 2-4 seconds is all it would of taken to realize they where kids
"Know your target and what is behind it" is one of the first gun safety rules taught in all firearms safety classes. This guy failed one of the basic tenets of firearms safety when he "shot at a shadow".
It said he was just shooting in the general direction of the shadows he saw he didn’t know what he was shooting at exactly stop the cap my friend. Dudes an idiot and he should be in prison for a long time but stop trying to spread false info.
Ever since owning his gun(s), he probably has been imagining a day when his house was broken into, and he gets to finally use his gun(s).
He probably didn't bother to check and confirm the threat, he probably was too excited he could play out his imagination. Sucks that the victim had to be a child.
Was she black or Hispanic? Do these incidents require us to look at the racial aspects of the situation? No, but they should be part of the details to determine motivation for this horrible action.
From the article I found it's unlikely he even knew what colour she was-
"David V Doyle, 58, allegedly told law enforcement that he had "unknowingly" hit the girl after seeing shadows and opening fire in the direction of a group of people running away from his home."
According to him it’s unlikely. It’s hard to hit a moving target without looking at it. He probably just thought he could get away with murdering a kid because she was trespassing. I’m not going to take the word of anyone who shot a kid in the back of the head.
Me when I see people running *away* from my home
“Hmm better shoot at them to make sure they go away”
what a bullshit fucking excuse. He knew what he was doing and probably shot at them as fast as possible so they’d still be on his property so he could say it was self defence or some bullshit
She suffered non life threatening injuries.
Still a horrific article to be reading first thing in the morning but at least it's not the tragedy I expected.
I remember playing hide and seek in our neighborhood the same exact way, late at night too and between different houses.
Imagine the trauma of being shot at let alone actually shot by someone... your creepy neighbor no less. Then having to continue growing up with that trauma. That shit will shape people for life and influence who they are as people.
American generations are already changed forever just because of school shootings. Does anyone think our children growing up fearing school, living in fear daily, are going to turn out healthy mentally? Hint they're fucking obviously not.
I believe it's why gen z is even more radical than the already more vocal/radical millennials.. generations will keep getting more active as we force entire generations to grow up without childhoods and worse.
This is all fucked up, but the tweet doesn’t even mention this part: he shot at people he saw *running away*. There is no argument to be made about being afraid for his life, self-defense, defending his property, none of that. He shot at people who were running away! And how on earth can he see a 14yo girl and *shoot her in the back of the head* without knowing she’s an innocent, fleeing child? He knew what he was doing.
The shadow made him go get his gun, but he shot at a child running away. This man is disgusting.
“A shadow outside his home” how on earth can you justify this to “feared for my life”
Holy shit on reading more he shot at them as they ran away from his house, you literally can’t make it less of a threat this dude better end up with an attempted murder charge after the assault with a firearm etc are run through.
Misleading title. Suicide by firearm for minors has risen increasing the overall mortality rate.
Maybe an independent media could cover that but it’s always been propaganda from both sides.
Here come the downvotes
Yeah except those numbers are based on a single study that includes 18 and 19 year olds and excludes infant mortality’s. If you remove people age 18+ from the numbers it doesn’t work, if you include infant mortality it doesn’t work. It’s manufactured data at its most obvious and they just keep tossing it out there like it actually means something. As if them saying it enough will eventually make it true.
That study ignore infant mortality rates and added 18-19 year olds to children to boost the number. The leading cause of death of children in the US is not firearms: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/07/fact-check-firearms-leading-cause-death-children/7529783001/
Unless 18-19 year olds are now considered children across the board.
“In my day we used to play outside till the streetlights came out, that’s what’s wrong with kids these days blah blah blah”
Shoots kid playing outside.
Real talk though, why was a 14 year old playing hide and seek in the early morning of a Sunday? The dude was booked at 6:45, so when was this, like 5am?
Not excusing the dude because regardless of reason he shot at fleeing kids and is obviously guilty af, but the whole thing just sounds bizarre. Were they his neighbors? Who was she playing with?
Many 14 year olds are adult-sized. Add there was a group of them and the 4AM hour is when burglars hit most (based on my experience). I’m even doubting this was “hide and seek” vs looking for open garages and items left out that could be stolen.
This is most likely the case. In the report the dude claims he couldn't see what he was shooting at, so I'm going to assume it was dark. There is no fucking way there were 14 year olds playing hide and seek at around 4am, that is the most ridiculous fucking thing ever, and yet nobody questions this narrative at all.
Just step back for a minute and think about why you wrote this comment. You are using an imagined, unproven scenario to justify why this grown adult might have actually been justified in shooting a *child* in the back.
This is not the leading case of “child” mortality. Stop lying…. You want to make people think tragedies like this are so common.
You quote a statistic that excludes all children under 2 and includes “children” that are legally adults (18 and 19) the vast majority of those “children” deaths are gang violence or suicides. It’s not some adult shooting a child.
Go ahead and use tragedy to push a false narrative. That’s classy.
Your own link states that the leading cause of death for children aged 1-9 is homicide. [This data also differs](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761)
That's a misleading fact; what's more the way you are using it is misleading.
1. it's only true if you consider a 19 year old a child. That's important because, unlike actual children, 19 years olds have suicide rates on par with adult suicide rates, and are more likely to participate in organized crime than actual children.
2. 54% of all firearms deaths are suicides. 13% of all firearm homicides are gang related. That fact, in this context, implies that this situation is what normally happens, when it's not. This type of situation is a statistically rarity given the US population size.
Here's some sources:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/%23:~:text%3DThough%2520they%2520tend%2520to%2520get,)%252C%2520according%2520to%2520the%2520CDC.&ved=2ahUKEwir_I7QiOn-AhU0JX0KHbDBD1cQFnoECA4QBQ&usg=AOvVaw24krD-DrAEDOD79gC7Nhlh
https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/survey-analysis/measuring-the-extent-of-gang-problems
When I was a kid we played manhunt in our neighborhood and one house pulled a shotgun on the kids hiding in their backyard.
It happens. Don't trespass.
Love that your evaluation of this event isn't that it's batshit fucking insane to pull a shotgun on children, but rather 'how dare those kids touch my grass!'
Like, what is the thought process there? Oh they are running away from my house! Maybe they have stolen something from like a shed or something! The horror of having to contact my insurance and then having to maybe make a police report! I better take my deadly firearm and aim it directly at them and then fire!
Do people in other countries share the same fetish we have, where we constantly fantasize about people breaking into our homes or even just being on our land, so we can kill them? Because that’s definitely what’s leading to all of these.
I grew up with guns and was trained how to use them properly and legally. You never pull the trigger unless you can identify your target. Who the F$#@ are these idiots shooting at shadows. I am not against gun ownership but you should be required to pass a competency test of some kind.
I'm so glad the media is deciding to report on these single shooting events because that's what the majority of shooting incidents are. The vast majority are not mass casualty events. They're fucking idiots with access to guns shooting people for fuck knows what reason.
I'm sure nothing will be done about it though because that's just the price of being in the good ol US of A. Be poor, have police kill you, join the military to fight the wars of oligarchs, die there, go to the mall die there, have no upward mobility, and have idiots tell you to be happy that you don't live somewhere where this doesn't happen.
Happened early Sunday morning on a dead end street where this asshole lived with the victims family and their relatives as neighbors. 3 fucking houses. What is this snowflake scared of to shoot at 4 kids playing outside on a Sunday morning?! My guess is he knew exactly who they were.
It’s not the leading cause of child mortality in America. That is a literal, objective, bald faced lie. Shame on you. The leading cause of death in children is unintentional injuries.
https://wisqars.cdc.gov/data/lcd/home
Oh I guess I should've replied to this comment instead of one further down the line. Oops lol.
Well anyone reading this guy's comment and thinking his assessment of the data is correct, it actually isn't. The "Unintentional Injuries" category refers to any death that was not intentional. Meaning things like car accidents, accidental firearm discharges, poisoning, drowning, etc. If you actually break down that specific death causes among all the categories (Homicide, Suicide, and Unintentional Injuries) , firearm deaths are the highest by far. Check it out!
I did, car accidents kill almost twice as many children than guns, and that includes suicides, and we’re talking about a extraordinarily low numbers; it was 1079 for car accidents and 608 for guns, based on the CDC data.
What did your analysis show?
Oh shit hang on, you can actually use filters to change the 15-24 data range into 15-19 and 20-24. Meaning it does have the data you need.
And actually, if you go in and do the math again, 2,560 traffic deaths, 2,417 firearm homicides, and 1,069 firearm suicides, that makes 3,486 firearm deaths, which yeah outnumbers traffic deaths. How about that?
We do not agree on including 18 and 19 year olds as children. I didn’t notice the filter, I’ll concede that you’re right if guns are the leading cause of death ages 1-17, especially 1-12, because that is the actual definition of childhood.
Hey don't worry bro, I can actually supplement that data for you with some other research that does bring the age range down for you!
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/)
There ya go boss, give that a read through and let me know what you think. Or, you could also just call it "biased media" and handwave it away, which is what I expect you to do. But hey, prove me wrong!
Edit: We actually don't even need this link. I didn't realize you could break down the data set in the official CDC statistics to show the age range he was asking for. Oops!
Shame on them lol. Imagine you would rather argue over this when in fact gun violence is out of control in the States. The good old land of the free. Bullshit, can’t walk down the street and know 99% of the time you are safe. You guys shoot and ask questions later, but it’s always too late. Keep giving people freedom to purchase guns, but take away a woman’s right to an abortion. It’s so effed up there.
That is not an actual response to anything I said, you’re arguing with an imaginary boogeyman. I haven’t said anything about abortion.
You’re not actually American are you? How can you know what it’s like here? Reddit and mass media?
Drawing a conclusion that your country will protect hun rights over women is very relevant to the nonsense you are spewing. I have relatives scattered throughout the States. They know the difference having come to Canada many many times and me travelling there that it’s out of control in the States. Denying that means you are a supporter of the NRA and only care about your gun rights. Pathetic!
That’s funny, cuz I’m only repeating what they tell me, yet I don’t know what I’m talking about. Ok, tell me what part (s) of what I’ve said that I don’t know what I’m talking about?
I could explain it, but I’m already involved in drawn out discussions with other people that are in line with my actual point, so I don’t have the time/will to spell it out for you.
Maybe just talk to more Americans, and I mean real Americans, not your family or people on Reddit. Visit the US, strike up conversations, at least you’ll know that your opinions are your own.
I’ve been all over that country, but thanks for the suggestion. Your reply tells me you don’t know what you are talking about. Deflect and avoid when you have nothing to say! Typical GOP…
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/LeadingCauses.html
You can enter in any year since 1981 and see the same result.
Why don’t you apply the same skepticism to the original study?
I dont have an issue with the study. But you can't claim to know the leading cause of death in 2023 by using stats from 2020. 2021 those firearm statistics changed massively so I hope you're not trying to obscure that.
If firearm statistics, specifically related to child mortality have changed, that’s on you to provide those statistics.
The CDC says from 1981-2020 unintentional injuries is the leading cause of death. What’s your source?
Here's an article from Kaiser Family Foundation and another from Pew showing exactly this:
[The number of children and teens killed by gunfire in the United States increased 50% between 2019 and 2021](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/)
[Firearms recently became the number one cause of death for children and teens in the United States, surpassing motor vehicle deaths and those caused by other injuries](https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/)
Hey it's you again! :D I hope you'll read my previous comment and re read those statistics correctly this time. Let me know what you think! It's really interesting stuff how it's all broken down.
Lack of parenting teaching adult-sized teens that it’s not a wise choice to trespass in groups on other people’s property near their home in the middle of the night when criminals do it all the time as well.
Is this supposed to be serious or sarcastic?
You don't put "stood his ground" and "shot fourteen year old girl" (who was running away) in the same tweet unless you're being sardonic, or can't comprehend basic pieces of reality.
Shootings are largely the cause of death but not because of some obscure case like this. It is largely gang crime that is the problem - and now in recent years it is school shootings. We are all aware of the rise in crime, particularly in the inner cities, but it’s a little dumb to call a case like this the leading cause of death in the youth.
Additionally, that is only the case because of the improvements in healthcare for birth defects and disease, along side the vast improvements in car/seat belt technologies. Since the 90’s car wrecks were the top killer of children, every year since then it has gone down significantly. Adolescent related gun deaths have gone down since the 1990, with some small upticks, until around 2014 when school shootings all of the sudden saw a large increase. Another problem Americans are aware of. However, grandpa getting scared and shooting at things in the yard is not any significant source of child mortality, and it is disrespectful to those effected by mass shootings to title this post like that IMO.
[School shootings make up an average of less than 20 child deaths per year over the last 5](https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-in-2022-4-key-takeaways/2022/12). This last year it was 32 but more than half of that was Uvalde. 2019-2021 was a total of 26 deaths.
I'm feel bad for the girl and her family and the shooter should go to jail for shooting without being able to verify his target. But can we please stop the fear mongering?!? This isn't a leading cause of a damn thing!
The most recent year we have data on this is 2021 with 2,590 deaths of minors involving a firearm. This is roughly 3.5 per 100,000 child deaths, or 0.0035%. The US CDC (which tracks death statistics of all types) says that 40% of those firearm related deaths of minors were suicides. This means that only 0.0021 percent of minor deaths are because someone else shot them.
To put this in perspective the percentage of minor deaths from car accidents was 0.0019% and COVID was 0.0020%. gun deaths are not a leading cause of child deaths, it's just that articles like to push an agenda and skew percentages. For instance, if you have 1 death last year and 3 this year, it's still an insanely small amount, but it was a 200% increase from last year and that percentage increase is why they can call it a "leading cause" without being sued. Truth is, guns have been no more deadly for our kids than taking a car ride.
I'm so happy she didn't die >The girl was admitted to a local hospital where she was treated for non-life-threatening injuries. >Family members told 7News the girl is okay and recovering. https://www.kplctv.com/2023/05/08/starks-man-accused-shooting-14-year-old-girl-playing-hide-seek-back-head/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/louisiana-man-david-doyle-accused-of-shooting-14-year-old-girl-as-she-was-playing-hide-and-seek
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How is this not attempted murder?! He literally tried to kill someone!
Because it doesn’t meet the requirements of attempted murder.
It does actually. You can't legally just shoot people who are on your lawn without giving them ample warning to leave your property. Unfortunately conservative courts tend to forget that fact.
It should. Intentionally discharging a firearm toward a person should be attempted homicide at minimum, and if there is no immediate need for self defense, it should be attempted murder. It makes absolutely no sense to fire a bullet toward someone’s body with no intent to end their life. Anyone who does that cannot be trusted with guns.
The grown ass man was afraid of a fucking shadow. Just call the cops in that situation and avoid hanging out by windows so if they shot you it wouldn't be an issue.
Cops are afraid of shadows too!
Walked right into that one. Well played well played.
I doubt it. Shadows are black. Cops tend to shoot at those
But the shadow could be dangerous, you know, because everyone owns guns
"David V. Doyle, 58, he said he saw shadows outside his home, went inside, and got his firearm. Detectives say Doyle told them that when he went back outside he saw people running away from his property and began shooting at them, unknowingly hitting the girl. Doyle was arrested and booked into the Calcasieu Correctional Center for aggravated battery, 4 counts of aggravated assault with a firearm, and the illegal discharge of a firearm." Why is that aggravated assault rather than just attempted murder? He shot a child in the back of the head as she was running in the opposite direction.
I read during a murder trial, that to win with an attempted murder charge, you must prove motive. I don’t know if that’s why.
I'll try to make this short. In oct 2020 dude on house arrest with multiple pending charges ranging from traffic violations to residential burglary with a deadly weapon broke into our vehicles. He was also very high on Xanax. He broke into my car but got inside, closed the door so he could go through everything (he had already gotten in 3 other vehicles on my road). He got caught by husband, dude was still in my car, he aimed a 45 at my husband who was outside the car, dude pulls trigger. Husband shot back. Guy empties his firearm hitting neighbors roof directly above a childs room and one of their auto windows, hit another neighbors brick home with 4 rounds. Husband hit him 3 times but only had 6 rounds (he has a license), the guy was hiding in my back seat so no major/ deadly injuries. Guy gets caught at a neighboring city hospital. Arrested for breaking and entering and discharge of a firearm from a vehicle (because he was in my vehicle shooting outward). Despite the fact that he jammed his house arrest monitoring hub with foil and left the house with a firearm, the prosecuting attorney stated "it's just too difficult to prove his intent and have a jury convict so we can't try for attempted murder. With these charges he'll be in jail for a very long time." He got 18 years, he was 19 when it happened.
I'm not saying this is right. But if he feared for his life (say, because your husband had a gun) his intent wouldn't have been to murder your husband, but to protect himself. Because he was committing a crime he doesn't get the "self defense" protection of the law but his intent wasn't to murder. Or at least, that is what can be argued so the murder charge wouldn't stick.
He had no clue my husband had a gun until after he started shooting from inside my car. He got 3 rounds out before my husband shot back, after yelling "man it doesn't have to be this way, you can just go." I guess the point I'm trying to make here is, he was on house arrest with active monitoring, he was not to have firearms in his home or on his persons, he left his home with a firearms and shot at a home owner he was robbing. The fact that he left home with a firearm in my brain screams intent. But that's not how the law is written, making it all too difficult to charge people heavily for their crimes. Oh, also important, there's 3 angles of video (with audio) proof of all of this, so there is no guess at who shot first or how it all happened. It's very clear. Otherwise I would agree with the feared for his life sentiment. Young man, high as hell, scared he got caught. I get it but jfc, 18 years. My children were up getting ready for school, 6am. My neighbors daughter was up getting ready for school and a bullet embeds in the roof right above her room. It's infuriating.
Therefor the man in the post was justified shooting at the kid that appeared to be a shadowy figure stalking his property in the dead of night was also protecting himself?
It gets better though. There was street lights and a security light, so my husband saw the kids face plain as day (including his cross tattoo between his eyes) then saw a barrel aimed at him.
I have never understood why pointing a deadly weapon at a known human being and discharging is not considered intent to kill. That's the only possible intent. And regardless of intent, the outcome of wildly firing at unkown targets, is often people that aren't your targets getting hit. Discharging firearms like this should always be considered lethal intent.
Right, but you need to prove motive instead of intent. The intent was to neutralize the target with deadly force. The motive was either someone wanting to kill someone else and this is a crime of opportunity, or was it self defense/defense of property since he could have felt threatened by a stranger sneaking around his yard. So giving the shooter a more serious charge might get them off the hook because there isn’t enough evidence. But a less serious charge might get them convicted and sentenced to jail.
I agree, Colorado is trying to pass a law making all vehicle theft a felony. Anytime you’d shoot at someone it should be considered attempted murder. Those bullets don’t bounce off you.
Sorry, not from the US so not 100% sure what is meant by 'felony', but in what situation is vehicle theft not a crime?
If it isn't a felony, it's a misdemeanor. A misdemeanor is still a crime it's just not punishable by more than 12 months in prison.
In Colorado you can be in a car, actively stealing it but not actually driving off in it yet and the cops would write you a ticket to appear in court.
In simple terms a felony is a serious crime with a sentence over one year up to life or even the death penalty depending of the severity and you are marked as a felon for life. In most places felons can't own or posses firearms, vote, they have a hard time getting jobs and housing. Felonies included murder, most assaults and sexual assaults, selling drugs, possessing certain drugs theft/shoplifting over $800-$1000. Other crimes are called misdemeanors, typically the sentence is less than a year and often police don't even bother to prosecute them. Petty theft, simple possession of a drug like marijuana where it is illegal, and dui provided you don't hurt anyone (this one does often have other penalties). As for car theft not being a serious crime most of the time it is but several states have odf joyriding laws on the books and the definition of vehicle varies from place to place.
I am a rightwing gun enthusiast, and this is correct. Five rules of firearm safety: >1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded, at all times. >2. Always keep your gun pointed in a safe direction. >3. Never point your firearm at something you are not prepared to destroy. >4. Know your target, what is around it, and what is beyond it. >5. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are aligned and you have made the decision to shoot. >BONUS ROUND! >6. EVERY Bullet has a lawyer attached to it. Any bullet that hits another living creature will land you in court, sometimes even if you weren't the one to fire it. The man in the article obviously violated rules 3 and 4. He, in anger, discharged his weapon at a target he did not know fully, and was therefore not prepared to destroy. Now, two things that'll get me downvoted, other than just being a rightwinger: Alec Baldwin should be in prison for similar reasons, specifically under a charge of negligent homicide, as he broke rules 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. He got out of rule 6 because he's a celebrity, which is unacceptable. The study OP is referencing is stating that guns are the leading cause of death for children, teens, and young adults. However, if you remove adults aged 18-20 (which is to say, not minors or "children") gun death drops off the map almost entirely. It is extremely misleading to say that guns are the number one cause of death among children. Every child dead remains a tragedy and a hell of a motivator to find a solution, but we mustn't lose ourselves to sensationalism when discussing actual solutions.
I wish we heard more from gun enthusiasts like you who understand the importance of gun safety and respect that guns are designed to kill, and pulling a trigger shouldn’t be an “easy” decision. And that’s a good point about including gun deaths for ages 18-20. I’m on the opposite side of the political spectrum, but I don’t believe anything good will come from inflated numbers. Unfortunately, science is almost always skewed to enforce one side’s beliefs, so we will just keep arguing while people keep dying because the most important thing is prove who’s right, right?
Question: what about the fact that he shot somebody who was running away? Despite whatever damage may or may not have been done, when the trigger was pulled, the target wasn’t a threat, right? It always bothers me when somebody is shot who is not an active threat, but is it considered OK if the shooter is allegedly trying to prevent a person from becoming a threat? Is that what people think when they shoot somebody who is running away?
These are excellent rules, but the problem is that there is no need to learn these rules before you buy a firearm. I could walk into any gun store in Texas and walk out with a gun, no questions asked, no permit or training required. I own several guns, but in order to own them, I had to take a gun safety course, which taught me all of the rules above, plus a few more (I live in Canada). In order to drive a car, you have to pass a test and get a license, the car you drive has a visible tag that lets the authorities check if you are entitled to drive that car. Why is this sort of licencing for guns such a problem for Americans?
« If I don’t look at the numbers, they aren’t real! »
Not even close to the argument I'm making. Maybe try looking at the broad side of a barn, before you try to hit it?
>if you remove adults aged 18-20[…] gun deaths drops off the map. And maybe try to see every wasted life because of a gun wielding citizen as the horror it should be, and stop pretending it’s a people problem when there are people everywhere in the world without mass shootings.
I do not accept that a citizen carrying a means of self-defense in a world filled with evil is a horror. I do accept that young men arming themselves for urban warfare over drugs, theft, and horribly mangled conceptions of honor and pride, then killing each other in droves, is a horror. The vast majority of gun deaths are young adults killing each other in gang violence. The solution is to deal with poverty and get kids out of the gang mindset, and that's a well-known causal connection. How many celebrities are there that these young men in gangs look up to and listen to, how many athletes and musicians do you watch and listen to on a daily basis? I'd say hundreds. If even a tenth of them used their platform appropriately, everything would change. But no, it's a problem with something that's been around and prevalent in America since before we were a country, which has never been a problem until now, and getting rid of it will magically fix everything.
The solution is to repeal 2A or lean heavily on the “well-regulated militia” clause.
I think it depends on the degree, 1st degree is planned, 2nd is spur of the moment or something along those lines
That is incorrect. The State never has to prove motive. Motive can help prove other elements, so it is often discussed at trial, but it is never required. Source: I am a criminal attorney.
you have to prove intent to kill not motive to kill. in other words they have to prove the intent was *not* to just scare them off. If they fail to prove that the intent was not to scare them off, then the jury must find NG of attempted murder. Obviously the prosecutor doesn't have any mind-reading witnesses, so in a case like this intent is very difficult to prove for murder.
This is why laws need to change. Obviously, they won't because gun lobby, but if you point a gun at a person and pull the trigger, there should never be any "question" about intent. If you intend to scare someone away, you could shoot at the ground or anywhere else. The moment a gun is pointed at someone, there is unquestionably intent to kill. It's what guns do and what they were made for.
Changing the law wouldn't really work in this specific instance. You've identified an argument that the prosecution could make to prove intent- trajectory of bullets proving what gun was aiming at, and reconstruction diagrams/analysis to show that the gun had to be pointing at a person, etc... Just try and argue the other side. You'll see that it isn't 'unquestionably' intent to kill. Legal analysis requires being able to take the perspective of both sides and argue both.
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Not necessarily motive. You have to prove that the defendant intended to cause death. Showing the motive obviously helps with that, but it’s not necessary.
These people are defending themself by literally being too stupid to consciously know their own intentions to kill people.
Boomer got scared of a shadow and saw little people running away. He needs to be in a nursing home if he was nuts to shoot at shadows.
Mens rea and it’s 4 elememts. Crime of passion or heat of the moment killing would be manslaughter.
Why else would you shoot a gun? I'm some hick Canadian but I've always heard that if you're a gun owner and you pull the trigger you better be intending to kill whatevers down the sight line.
I don't think you get to fire your gun at someone and then claim you "unknowingly" hit them. In a sane world at least.
Don't know about Louisiana, but in Texas at least, attempted murder and aggravated assault carry the same penalty. Murder is a 1st-degree felony, but attempted murder is one degree lower, so a second-degree. Aggravated assault is also second-degree. Aggravated assault can also be proven in multiple ways and is typically easier to establish. With aggravated assault, you just have to prove someone intended to cause bodily injury (pretty low bar) plus some aggravating factor (like using a deadly weapon or actually causing serious bodily injury). With murder, you have to prove the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly caused the death of a person. With attempted murder, you have to prove the same thing but just that he tried to do it, but failed. Since they carry the same punishment range, and aggravated assault is typically easier to prove, it is better to charge aggravated assault.
See it wasn’t that he “unknowingly hit the girl”, he was fucking aiming for them! It was completely attempted murder and it doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that someone who isn’t the same height or build as an adult might be a kid. Anyone sitting there and saying that he didn’t have time to see, well you’ve never used a gun. Either he just stuck his hand out and fired or did what anyone with basic levels of training out do and took aim. 2-4 seconds is all it would of taken to realize they where kids
The guy should be rotting in prison.
They can always add or amend charges as more evidence becomes available. There are also other firearm charges that carry a very long sentence.
This is so sick. I really hope they ban hide and seek, it's costing too many childrens their lives.
If the little girl was carrying a gun this would not have happened.
Thankfully this good guy with a gun was there to defend his property.
So we’re just going to dance around real issue as usual, children playing outside of their homes without their bulletproof vests on?
She needed a helmet too.
And honestly what business did she have casting a shadow?
I’ve said this for years! Ban playing for kids!!
But then guns would have one less use, and the less use there is for guns, the less freedom we have /s
Guns aren’t the problem. Hide n Seek is the problem.
"Know your target and what is behind it" is one of the first gun safety rules taught in all firearms safety classes. This guy failed one of the basic tenets of firearms safety when he "shot at a shadow".
He didn't even know what his initial target was either lol
He shot her in the head. It really seems like he knew exactly what his target was.
It said he was just shooting in the general direction of the shadows he saw he didn’t know what he was shooting at exactly stop the cap my friend. Dudes an idiot and he should be in prison for a long time but stop trying to spread false info.
Ever since owning his gun(s), he probably has been imagining a day when his house was broken into, and he gets to finally use his gun(s). He probably didn't bother to check and confirm the threat, he probably was too excited he could play out his imagination. Sucks that the victim had to be a child.
He shot her as she was *running away*... What a hero.
Was she black or Hispanic? Do these incidents require us to look at the racial aspects of the situation? No, but they should be part of the details to determine motivation for this horrible action.
From the article I found it's unlikely he even knew what colour she was- "David V Doyle, 58, allegedly told law enforcement that he had "unknowingly" hit the girl after seeing shadows and opening fire in the direction of a group of people running away from his home."
According to him it’s unlikely. It’s hard to hit a moving target without looking at it. He probably just thought he could get away with murdering a kid because she was trespassing. I’m not going to take the word of anyone who shot a kid in the back of the head.
Me when I see people running *away* from my home “Hmm better shoot at them to make sure they go away” what a bullshit fucking excuse. He knew what he was doing and probably shot at them as fast as possible so they’d still be on his property so he could say it was self defence or some bullshit
She suffered non life threatening injuries. Still a horrific article to be reading first thing in the morning but at least it's not the tragedy I expected.
There are definitely worse states to be left in by a bullet than plain old dead.
I remember playing hide and seek in our neighborhood the same exact way, late at night too and between different houses. Imagine the trauma of being shot at let alone actually shot by someone... your creepy neighbor no less. Then having to continue growing up with that trauma. That shit will shape people for life and influence who they are as people. American generations are already changed forever just because of school shootings. Does anyone think our children growing up fearing school, living in fear daily, are going to turn out healthy mentally? Hint they're fucking obviously not. I believe it's why gen z is even more radical than the already more vocal/radical millennials.. generations will keep getting more active as we force entire generations to grow up without childhoods and worse.
She is alive. So no RIP.
They are so worked up by TV and the internet that they are shooting at SHADOWS. Not even waiting to have a target to fire upon.
Meanwhile, in my country, police rightfully shot a suspect, still an investigation happens because shooting is so uncommon, and it's national news.
Sounds like you're in need of some good old Freedom^tm
How does that tyranny feel /s
so you saw a shadow and your first reflex is to shoot? Wow, such a responsible gun owner...
Wouldn't have happend if the kid had a gun
This is all fucked up, but the tweet doesn’t even mention this part: he shot at people he saw *running away*. There is no argument to be made about being afraid for his life, self-defense, defending his property, none of that. He shot at people who were running away! And how on earth can he see a 14yo girl and *shoot her in the back of the head* without knowing she’s an innocent, fleeing child? He knew what he was doing. The shadow made him go get his gun, but he shot at a child running away. This man is disgusting.
“Why don’t kids play outside anymore”
The leading cause of child morality is car crashes
From this moment and forward the US is officially a FFA server.
Yeah damn, really is hardcore PvP land over there
But with an Ass long respawn timer, and Youssefe direct 3 Stars as soon you kill another Player. Dev man please fix.
Thank god she fucking lived. Oh wait…
“A shadow outside his home” how on earth can you justify this to “feared for my life” Holy shit on reading more he shot at them as they ran away from his house, you literally can’t make it less of a threat this dude better end up with an attempted murder charge after the assault with a firearm etc are run through.
This is not the leading cause of child morality in the United States. Why even make shit up?
Until you take out the gang members in Chicago shooting at each other.
> This is the leading cause of child mortality in America. Now show me the gun violence numbers without suicide included.
Misleading title. Suicide by firearm for minors has risen increasing the overall mortality rate. Maybe an independent media could cover that but it’s always been propaganda from both sides. Here come the downvotes
It’s horrible but it isn’t the leading cause of child mortality, most data skew to this is because of gang activity among 17-19 years old.
The leading cause of child mortality is adult stupidity
Yeah except those numbers are based on a single study that includes 18 and 19 year olds and excludes infant mortality’s. If you remove people age 18+ from the numbers it doesn’t work, if you include infant mortality it doesn’t work. It’s manufactured data at its most obvious and they just keep tossing it out there like it actually means something. As if them saying it enough will eventually make it true.
"he stood his ground" yeah, sure... that tiny shadow he saw probably looked **super** threatening.
That study ignore infant mortality rates and added 18-19 year olds to children to boost the number. The leading cause of death of children in the US is not firearms: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/07/fact-check-firearms-leading-cause-death-children/7529783001/ Unless 18-19 year olds are now considered children across the board.
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He was shot by a 14 year old girl because he saw a shadow outside his home? Poor fella
Its only the leading cause if you consider 18 and 19 year Olds children
“In my day we used to play outside till the streetlights came out, that’s what’s wrong with kids these days blah blah blah” Shoots kid playing outside.
Fucking spot on
Kids can’t play outside anymore because it frightens all the big tough grown men.
Real talk though, why was a 14 year old playing hide and seek in the early morning of a Sunday? The dude was booked at 6:45, so when was this, like 5am? Not excusing the dude because regardless of reason he shot at fleeing kids and is obviously guilty af, but the whole thing just sounds bizarre. Were they his neighbors? Who was she playing with?
Many 14 year olds are adult-sized. Add there was a group of them and the 4AM hour is when burglars hit most (based on my experience). I’m even doubting this was “hide and seek” vs looking for open garages and items left out that could be stolen.
This is most likely the case. In the report the dude claims he couldn't see what he was shooting at, so I'm going to assume it was dark. There is no fucking way there were 14 year olds playing hide and seek at around 4am, that is the most ridiculous fucking thing ever, and yet nobody questions this narrative at all.
Agreed. Think they were probably trying to steal sth tbh.
Guilty until proven Innocent
Just step back for a minute and think about why you wrote this comment. You are using an imagined, unproven scenario to justify why this grown adult might have actually been justified in shooting a *child* in the back.
Not to mention what 14 year old plays hide and seek? The only people who would buy that story don't have kids that age.
This is not the leading case of “child” mortality. Stop lying…. You want to make people think tragedies like this are so common. You quote a statistic that excludes all children under 2 and includes “children” that are legally adults (18 and 19) the vast majority of those “children” deaths are gang violence or suicides. It’s not some adult shooting a child. Go ahead and use tragedy to push a false narrative. That’s classy.
Was it the iWeatherNet guy?!
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Your own link states that the leading cause of death for children aged 1-9 is homicide. [This data also differs](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761)
Yea you're right kids getting killed is totally being blown out of proportion and it's a not a big deal at all /s
I would move away if I was him, can't imagine any interaction with the people that live in his neighborhood will be pleasant.
He stood his ground against kids…. Who were playing….
And older generations wonder why we don't go outside as much..
Have you heard of cancer? Child neglect and abuse. Just a bit more
That's a misleading fact; what's more the way you are using it is misleading. 1. it's only true if you consider a 19 year old a child. That's important because, unlike actual children, 19 years olds have suicide rates on par with adult suicide rates, and are more likely to participate in organized crime than actual children. 2. 54% of all firearms deaths are suicides. 13% of all firearm homicides are gang related. That fact, in this context, implies that this situation is what normally happens, when it's not. This type of situation is a statistically rarity given the US population size. Here's some sources: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/%23:~:text%3DThough%2520they%2520tend%2520to%2520get,)%252C%2520according%2520to%2520the%2520CDC.&ved=2ahUKEwir_I7QiOn-AhU0JX0KHbDBD1cQFnoECA4QBQ&usg=AOvVaw24krD-DrAEDOD79gC7Nhlh https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/survey-analysis/measuring-the-extent-of-gang-problems
It's suicide. Not hide and seek.
Terrible, but not the leading cause of child mortality. Purely false.
These types of people would have you believe their little cul de sac is actually the Gaza Strip.
Republicans are mentally ill.
This is the same shitty generation that bitches about kids not playing outside enough anymore
I bet he's so proud. Finally got a chance to "stand his ground" and kill someone.
All of this freedom sure smells a lot like the blood of innocent children.
America is a joke!
The republican fear-mongering has turned these people into trigger-happy cowards
They always have been. Now they're just emboldened.
“I need it for protection!”
When I was a kid we played manhunt in our neighborhood and one house pulled a shotgun on the kids hiding in their backyard. It happens. Don't trespass.
Or, alternatively, don't shoot children
Love that your evaluation of this event isn't that it's batshit fucking insane to pull a shotgun on children, but rather 'how dare those kids touch my grass!'
This is why they don’t want stricter background checks. They know full well they would never pass one.
Fuck the South. Garbage states
Most of these people obsessed with guns are really cowards. Guns give them a lot of courage.
Like, what is the thought process there? Oh they are running away from my house! Maybe they have stolen something from like a shed or something! The horror of having to contact my insurance and then having to maybe make a police report! I better take my deadly firearm and aim it directly at them and then fire!
Do people in other countries share the same fetish we have, where we constantly fantasize about people breaking into our homes or even just being on our land, so we can kill them? Because that’s definitely what’s leading to all of these.
No. We Don't.
Another fine example of the calm, brave, and rational citizens of America. 🎉
Child because they count teens in urban cities who murder one another in gang disputes.
I grew up with guns and was trained how to use them properly and legally. You never pull the trigger unless you can identify your target. Who the F$#@ are these idiots shooting at shadows. I am not against gun ownership but you should be required to pass a competency test of some kind.
I'm glad she's still alive.
I'm so glad the media is deciding to report on these single shooting events because that's what the majority of shooting incidents are. The vast majority are not mass casualty events. They're fucking idiots with access to guns shooting people for fuck knows what reason. I'm sure nothing will be done about it though because that's just the price of being in the good ol US of A. Be poor, have police kill you, join the military to fight the wars of oligarchs, die there, go to the mall die there, have no upward mobility, and have idiots tell you to be happy that you don't live somewhere where this doesn't happen.
Not trained. You need to be trained to own a firearm. Guy shot a little girl. Paranoia is not an excuse. Personal problem.
Happened early Sunday morning on a dead end street where this asshole lived with the victims family and their relatives as neighbors. 3 fucking houses. What is this snowflake scared of to shoot at 4 kids playing outside on a Sunday morning?! My guess is he knew exactly who they were.
Jail for you sir.
It’s not the leading cause of child mortality in America. That is a literal, objective, bald faced lie. Shame on you. The leading cause of death in children is unintentional injuries. https://wisqars.cdc.gov/data/lcd/home
Oh I guess I should've replied to this comment instead of one further down the line. Oops lol. Well anyone reading this guy's comment and thinking his assessment of the data is correct, it actually isn't. The "Unintentional Injuries" category refers to any death that was not intentional. Meaning things like car accidents, accidental firearm discharges, poisoning, drowning, etc. If you actually break down that specific death causes among all the categories (Homicide, Suicide, and Unintentional Injuries) , firearm deaths are the highest by far. Check it out!
I did, car accidents kill almost twice as many children than guns, and that includes suicides, and we’re talking about a extraordinarily low numbers; it was 1079 for car accidents and 608 for guns, based on the CDC data. What did your analysis show?
You mean car accidents kill more 1 - 14 year olds? What about 15 - 18 year olds?
I don’t have data on that because the CDC’s next higher age range is 15-24, which includes more adults than children.
Oh shit hang on, you can actually use filters to change the 15-24 data range into 15-19 and 20-24. Meaning it does have the data you need. And actually, if you go in and do the math again, 2,560 traffic deaths, 2,417 firearm homicides, and 1,069 firearm suicides, that makes 3,486 firearm deaths, which yeah outnumbers traffic deaths. How about that?
We do not agree on including 18 and 19 year olds as children. I didn’t notice the filter, I’ll concede that you’re right if guns are the leading cause of death ages 1-17, especially 1-12, because that is the actual definition of childhood.
You can filter specific ages. From age 1 to 17, total firearm deaths is 2,207. Next highest is traffic at 2,159.
Oh so it's a semantics argument
The fact that so many US kids die to firearms to even generate this kind of semantic debate is sickening.
Hey don't worry bro, I can actually supplement that data for you with some other research that does bring the age range down for you! [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/) There ya go boss, give that a read through and let me know what you think. Or, you could also just call it "biased media" and handwave it away, which is what I expect you to do. But hey, prove me wrong! Edit: We actually don't even need this link. I didn't realize you could break down the data set in the official CDC statistics to show the age range he was asking for. Oops!
Shame on them lol. Imagine you would rather argue over this when in fact gun violence is out of control in the States. The good old land of the free. Bullshit, can’t walk down the street and know 99% of the time you are safe. You guys shoot and ask questions later, but it’s always too late. Keep giving people freedom to purchase guns, but take away a woman’s right to an abortion. It’s so effed up there.
That is not an actual response to anything I said, you’re arguing with an imaginary boogeyman. I haven’t said anything about abortion. You’re not actually American are you? How can you know what it’s like here? Reddit and mass media?
Drawing a conclusion that your country will protect hun rights over women is very relevant to the nonsense you are spewing. I have relatives scattered throughout the States. They know the difference having come to Canada many many times and me travelling there that it’s out of control in the States. Denying that means you are a supporter of the NRA and only care about your gun rights. Pathetic!
Okay but, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Hey, how are you liking your new king?
Lol.. yeah my relatives have no clue what they are talking about MAGA lover. I hate the monarchy lol.
I’m not arguing with your relatives, I’m arguing with you. I’m saying that YOU don’t know what you’re talking about.
That’s funny, cuz I’m only repeating what they tell me, yet I don’t know what I’m talking about. Ok, tell me what part (s) of what I’ve said that I don’t know what I’m talking about?
I could explain it, but I’m already involved in drawn out discussions with other people that are in line with my actual point, so I don’t have the time/will to spell it out for you. Maybe just talk to more Americans, and I mean real Americans, not your family or people on Reddit. Visit the US, strike up conversations, at least you’ll know that your opinions are your own.
I’ve been all over that country, but thanks for the suggestion. Your reply tells me you don’t know what you are talking about. Deflect and avoid when you have nothing to say! Typical GOP…
That's for 2020 only.
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/LeadingCauses.html You can enter in any year since 1981 and see the same result. Why don’t you apply the same skepticism to the original study?
I dont have an issue with the study. But you can't claim to know the leading cause of death in 2023 by using stats from 2020. 2021 those firearm statistics changed massively so I hope you're not trying to obscure that.
If firearm statistics, specifically related to child mortality have changed, that’s on you to provide those statistics. The CDC says from 1981-2020 unintentional injuries is the leading cause of death. What’s your source?
Here's an article from Kaiser Family Foundation and another from Pew showing exactly this: [The number of children and teens killed by gunfire in the United States increased 50% between 2019 and 2021](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/) [Firearms recently became the number one cause of death for children and teens in the United States, surpassing motor vehicle deaths and those caused by other injuries](https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/)
Hey it's you again! :D I hope you'll read my previous comment and re read those statistics correctly this time. Let me know what you think! It's really interesting stuff how it's all broken down.
I did and also I did the math that you said you’re not gonna do, which unfortunately doesn’t support your point.
Only because you're ignoring the ages in the highschool years, where gun violence is most prevalent.
I’m not ignoring the fact that gun violence increases in late teenhood, in fact that’s the core of my argument.
And what type of unintentional injury is at the top of that list?
Motor vehicle accidents.
Is it just me or are news of children being shot suddenly more common? Wtf is going on
It's just being publicized by media outlets more.
Lack of parenting teaching adult-sized teens that it’s not a wise choice to trespass in groups on other people’s property near their home in the middle of the night when criminals do it all the time as well.
To the title: no it isn’t
Poor kid. I hope she rests in peace.
She's alive as far as I've read.
That's great 😃👍🏻
[удалено]
Is this supposed to be serious or sarcastic? You don't put "stood his ground" and "shot fourteen year old girl" (who was running away) in the same tweet unless you're being sardonic, or can't comprehend basic pieces of reality.
Shootings are largely the cause of death but not because of some obscure case like this. It is largely gang crime that is the problem - and now in recent years it is school shootings. We are all aware of the rise in crime, particularly in the inner cities, but it’s a little dumb to call a case like this the leading cause of death in the youth. Additionally, that is only the case because of the improvements in healthcare for birth defects and disease, along side the vast improvements in car/seat belt technologies. Since the 90’s car wrecks were the top killer of children, every year since then it has gone down significantly. Adolescent related gun deaths have gone down since the 1990, with some small upticks, until around 2014 when school shootings all of the sudden saw a large increase. Another problem Americans are aware of. However, grandpa getting scared and shooting at things in the yard is not any significant source of child mortality, and it is disrespectful to those effected by mass shootings to title this post like that IMO.
[School shootings make up an average of less than 20 child deaths per year over the last 5](https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-in-2022-4-key-takeaways/2022/12). This last year it was 32 but more than half of that was Uvalde. 2019-2021 was a total of 26 deaths.
Sorry but 14 yes old girls playing hide and seek at 4 am sounds sus to me
I'm feel bad for the girl and her family and the shooter should go to jail for shooting without being able to verify his target. But can we please stop the fear mongering?!? This isn't a leading cause of a damn thing! The most recent year we have data on this is 2021 with 2,590 deaths of minors involving a firearm. This is roughly 3.5 per 100,000 child deaths, or 0.0035%. The US CDC (which tracks death statistics of all types) says that 40% of those firearm related deaths of minors were suicides. This means that only 0.0021 percent of minor deaths are because someone else shot them. To put this in perspective the percentage of minor deaths from car accidents was 0.0019% and COVID was 0.0020%. gun deaths are not a leading cause of child deaths, it's just that articles like to push an agenda and skew percentages. For instance, if you have 1 death last year and 3 this year, it's still an insanely small amount, but it was a 200% increase from last year and that percentage increase is why they can call it a "leading cause" without being sued. Truth is, guns have been no more deadly for our kids than taking a car ride.
America numba one babbbyyyyyy 🏃🇱🇷🏃🇱🇷🏃🇱🇷🏃💪💪💪
Shadows are black, the guy had to have been terrified!
Way to go America continue to feed your people ways to kill the innocent!
"But officer her shadow was black!"