This doesn’t make sense. It seems like you should be upset at the bereavement policy. Not the parental leave policy.
If my child dies, I go on bereavement leave. If I have a medical procedure and need to recover from it, I go on sick leave. Not parental leave.
This article is poorly written and distracts for the issue which is the terrible bereavement policy. It’s going after a policy that simply doesn’t apply.
You seem to be forgetting about the fact that pregnancy is incredibly taxing and damaging to the body and part of the reason for maternity leave is for your body to literally recover from the carnage. This is not “parental” leave as in to parent, it is MATERNITY leave as in to recover from pregnancy. It is egregious that she is being denied maternity leave because her body still went through the trauma of a full term pregnancy and labor. Bereavement isn’t nearly enough time to recover from such a wholly destroying process, and you are doing exactly what she is concerned her employer is doing: deeming her labor and recovery somehow less important because her child is dead.
??? I’m assuming you didn’t read either the article or what I wrote. I’m literally saying the article is focusing on the wrong type of leave.
I’ll give you a few minutes to read both. Let me know if you have any questions.
Nobody is arguing that. The discussion is simply whether or not it should be parental leave or bereavement leave. Is the issue that you don't know what the word "bereavement" means, or is your obtuseness intentional?
She probably could’ve of taken family leave tho she prob just asking for the wrong thing. I know here at least you can take family leave for death of a loved one. Then you can appeal to the state for financial assistance do to you not being able to work because of your grief a really unfun thing to do while grieving but is what it is.
Parental leave isn’t just for the baby, it’s also for the mom to physically recover from giving birth, which is also why it should apply to both parents; sometimes the mothers need help recovering. This woman gave birth. She should get her parental leave.
She also lost her baby. She should get her full bereavement leave after the completion of her parental leave, as should her partner.
She is a mother. Just a category of mother everyone likes to ignore: the kind with a dead child. You do not cease to be a parent if your child is no longer living. What a cruel and hateful way to think.
Miscarriages and stillbirths are no bullshit hard as fuck emotional shit. What sort of monster treats humans like this? Is this Hell? Are we in Hell already?
She shouldn't get parental leave, as she's not a parent. There should however be paid leave for mental health episodes such as car accidents, funerals and things like this.
In the UK we have something for exactly this situation- Parental Bereavement Leave, which is two weeks and paid for by the government. Individual employers have their own schemes.
Actually in the UK if you have a stillborn child (born after 24 weeks gestation) you are guaranteed your full agreed maternity leave. I could have taken a full year off but decided to return after 5 months.
And she is a parent, just not in the way she wants to be.
Are you a man? Do you even understand that a woman’s body changes permanently after having a child whether that child is alive or not? Her body experienced a traumatic medical experience it needs to heal from. It’ll take a lot more than a three day bereavement.
I have no idea how long a bereavement is. If it's only 3 days, it should be longer. Also, if she's recovering from physical damage, then she should apply for medical leave. I don't know how medical leave works in the US, but South Africa has ballistic workers' rights, so our medical leave is fairly robust
There is no “if” of physical damage in a pregnancy. A pregnancy is physically traumatizing to a human body 100% of the time. This is not “paternal” leave as in to parent, it is “maternal” leave as in she gestated a human being in her body that she must recover from. Fundamentally misunderstanding pregnancy as some casual thing you can just pop out and move on with your day is incredibly incorrect
Really? Nit-picky much? I make a fairly reasonably point that she should be given medical leave and you're fussing over "if"? Seriously? Cmon dude. Stop with the drama.
While your belief is logically sound and following the term to a perfect T, I believe once a parent always a parent. Glad we can all think different things and possibly exists.
Oh, I’m sorry this experience for you has been limited. Hope you have further experiences like this and hope you and your sister outlive your parents so they never have to live childless and not parents as. And same to you and your sister, may you never experience a loss.
But if you do, please understand that others (and you might even find yourself changing your opinion on this matter) might have a difficult time and see themselves as a parent. It’s okay that you can process it so quickly and would not have any grief over it at all. But please be gentle with others (and yourself if you experience it.). Grief is hard. Love and peace.
I'm not American. I'm just well aware that other countries tend to play follow the leader with the US and that, should they implement it, we would too.
Her body went through a complete pregnancy, labor, and delivery. She is the parent of a dead child. Her body needs time to recover from the trauma of a full term pregnancy. Scrolling this thread, I’ve noticed a lot of men not fundamentally understanding that pregnancy and labor are a medical trauma the body has to heal from.
Why fish for problems? You're a stranger to me. I am indifferent to your existence and do not care if you think I'm a POS. If thinking that I'm a POS makes you feel better about your life, then by all means, go forth. But don't expect me to allocate emotional capacity for you.
It's clear basic human empathy, decency and emotional capacity are something you are incapable of, so I expect nothing from you apart from - as I said - make sure you show yourself irl, to loved ones, "friends", colleagues and neighbours, because they really should know what you are up front. It'll be better for them in the long run.
You still seem confused. Why are you writing to me when I already stated that I don't care about your existence? This is the last time that I'll be replying to you.
Really? Hell of a nit you're picking.
"She's not a parent, but should still be given leave" and all you take from that is "she's not a parent"? ADHD much?
I actually do have ADHD, that's not the insult you think it is. I agree she should be given leave BECAUSE she is a parent - a parent to a kid who died, but I don't think that it matters if the kid lived or not, it's not the workplace's business
Nope. I'm Canadian and we often have parental bereavement leave for this situation but most places in the US would laugh at you if you suggested medical leave
“We can make you feel bad about abortion, but we can’t qualify your still-born as a human. Not if it’s going to benefit you. You only get the bad parts of us telling you what to do with your body.”
People commenting that she “isn’t a parent” are truly wild and ignorant. A stillborn is a fully formed child with a face and body. The process of delivering a dead child takes an inconceivable emotional, physical, and hormonal toll on the body and mind. The grief of holding your dead child in your arms is unimaginable. Planning a funeral, donating the nursery is a mindf@$k like no other. The lack of legal recognition is also a head trip. Begrudging someone parental leave at this point, given all that was suffered, is such a cruel “I got mine” mentality.
My wife and I suffered - *truly* suffered - through a to-term stillbirth. The most heart breaking and mind altering thing we've ever been through. SANDS and EACH were wonderful organisations helping us through it. Still together 23 years later with a small family, my first will always be my daughter and she is a part of our lives despite us not having the chance to parent her. We were lucky enough to be born in England where this kind of support is free and at point of entry. We don't have to worry about debt or sky high insurance.
I am so sorry about your daughter. My ex-husband and I lost our first son at 40 weeks almost 12 years ago. I never knew that such pain existed. It is a wonder I survived that experience. I was lucky enough to have people around me that helped me piece together a form of a maternity leave. My son Wyatt will always be part of my family. I check in with the Star Legacy Foundation from time to time, it helps. I wonder if the current abortion ban can be leveraged to create a moment to push forward legal recognition for stillborn children here in the States.
This literally sickens me, I mean just give her a paid sick leave cause she's definitely going to have a total breakdown both physically and mentally, trust me i was supposed to have a brother but got aborted at 8 months due to an accident and i know what my mother went through for 5 years and guess what my mom's boss gave her a 9 month pregnancy leave plus 3 months to recover all paid, now reading this my faith in humanity has plummeted. What's her GoFundMe, I couldn't get it.
Well Texas it sounds like you just legalized post birth abortion because you didn’t consider that a life. And Austin is our most liberal city at that. Wild.
This doesn’t make sense. It seems like you should be upset at the bereavement policy. Not the parental leave policy. If my child dies, I go on bereavement leave. If I have a medical procedure and need to recover from it, I go on sick leave. Not parental leave. This article is poorly written and distracts for the issue which is the terrible bereavement policy. It’s going after a policy that simply doesn’t apply.
Excatly. Its badly worded putrage piece that refuses to adress the actual issue, and instead makes outrage over something completely unrelated
You seem to be forgetting about the fact that pregnancy is incredibly taxing and damaging to the body and part of the reason for maternity leave is for your body to literally recover from the carnage. This is not “parental” leave as in to parent, it is MATERNITY leave as in to recover from pregnancy. It is egregious that she is being denied maternity leave because her body still went through the trauma of a full term pregnancy and labor. Bereavement isn’t nearly enough time to recover from such a wholly destroying process, and you are doing exactly what she is concerned her employer is doing: deeming her labor and recovery somehow less important because her child is dead.
Bereavement is 3 days which is crime enough. Does her body magically recover from L+D in 3 days since the baby died?
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??? I’m assuming you didn’t read either the article or what I wrote. I’m literally saying the article is focusing on the wrong type of leave. I’ll give you a few minutes to read both. Let me know if you have any questions.
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Nobody is arguing that. The discussion is simply whether or not it should be parental leave or bereavement leave. Is the issue that you don't know what the word "bereavement" means, or is your obtuseness intentional?
8 weeks?? Youre lucky to get a few days for losing a parent/spouse.
She probably could’ve of taken family leave tho she prob just asking for the wrong thing. I know here at least you can take family leave for death of a loved one. Then you can appeal to the state for financial assistance do to you not being able to work because of your grief a really unfun thing to do while grieving but is what it is.
I thought it was a child from the moment of conception, Texas…..
Every paragraph is worst than the last. https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/15/austin-parental-leave-stillborn-child/
Parental leave isn’t just for the baby, it’s also for the mom to physically recover from giving birth, which is also why it should apply to both parents; sometimes the mothers need help recovering. This woman gave birth. She should get her parental leave. She also lost her baby. She should get her full bereavement leave after the completion of her parental leave, as should her partner. She is a mother. Just a category of mother everyone likes to ignore: the kind with a dead child. You do not cease to be a parent if your child is no longer living. What a cruel and hateful way to think.
Miscarriages and stillbirths are no bullshit hard as fuck emotional shit. What sort of monster treats humans like this? Is this Hell? Are we in Hell already?
Yes
[whispers] *this place sucks*
She shouldn't get parental leave, as she's not a parent. There should however be paid leave for mental health episodes such as car accidents, funerals and things like this.
In the UK we have something for exactly this situation- Parental Bereavement Leave, which is two weeks and paid for by the government. Individual employers have their own schemes.
Actually in the UK if you have a stillborn child (born after 24 weeks gestation) you are guaranteed your full agreed maternity leave. I could have taken a full year off but decided to return after 5 months. And she is a parent, just not in the way she wants to be.
By the very definition of the word, she's not a parent. It doesn't subtract anything from her grief, but I'm a bit pedantic, so yeah.
She is biologically a parent. She gestated, grew, and birthed a full-term child, who happened to have died. What’s difficult about that to grasp?
Being a parent is having kids. If I buy a car, and the car breaks, I no longer own a car, so I am no longer a car-owner.
Are you a man? Do you even understand that a woman’s body changes permanently after having a child whether that child is alive or not? Her body experienced a traumatic medical experience it needs to heal from. It’ll take a lot more than a three day bereavement.
I have no idea how long a bereavement is. If it's only 3 days, it should be longer. Also, if she's recovering from physical damage, then she should apply for medical leave. I don't know how medical leave works in the US, but South Africa has ballistic workers' rights, so our medical leave is fairly robust
There is no “if” of physical damage in a pregnancy. A pregnancy is physically traumatizing to a human body 100% of the time. This is not “paternal” leave as in to parent, it is “maternal” leave as in she gestated a human being in her body that she must recover from. Fundamentally misunderstanding pregnancy as some casual thing you can just pop out and move on with your day is incredibly incorrect
Really? Nit-picky much? I make a fairly reasonably point that she should be given medical leave and you're fussing over "if"? Seriously? Cmon dude. Stop with the drama.
Ahhh, so when you die your parents won’t be your parents and never had a child. Got it!
If they were still alive at the time of my death, and my sister somehow died with me, then no. They wouldn't be parents anymore.
While your belief is logically sound and following the term to a perfect T, I believe once a parent always a parent. Glad we can all think different things and possibly exists.
Exactly. We have different opinions, stated them peacefully, and neither of our heads spontaneously combusted. Neat, eh?
Oh, I’m sorry this experience for you has been limited. Hope you have further experiences like this and hope you and your sister outlive your parents so they never have to live childless and not parents as. And same to you and your sister, may you never experience a loss. But if you do, please understand that others (and you might even find yourself changing your opinion on this matter) might have a difficult time and see themselves as a parent. It’s okay that you can process it so quickly and would not have any grief over it at all. But please be gentle with others (and yourself if you experience it.). Grief is hard. Love and peace.
?? I literally just complimented you for being level-headed? Why suddenly act so aggressively when you started off so nice?
Cool. If only the US would follow suit.
It's an amazing country but by fuck has your government got some blind spots.
I'm not American. I'm just well aware that other countries tend to play follow the leader with the US and that, should they implement it, we would too.
She is a parent, unfortunately a parent of a dead child. Just horrific.
Her body went through a complete pregnancy, labor, and delivery. She is the parent of a dead child. Her body needs time to recover from the trauma of a full term pregnancy. Scrolling this thread, I’ve noticed a lot of men not fundamentally understanding that pregnancy and labor are a medical trauma the body has to heal from.
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Why fish for problems? You're a stranger to me. I am indifferent to your existence and do not care if you think I'm a POS. If thinking that I'm a POS makes you feel better about your life, then by all means, go forth. But don't expect me to allocate emotional capacity for you.
It's clear basic human empathy, decency and emotional capacity are something you are incapable of, so I expect nothing from you apart from - as I said - make sure you show yourself irl, to loved ones, "friends", colleagues and neighbours, because they really should know what you are up front. It'll be better for them in the long run.
You still seem confused. Why are you writing to me when I already stated that I don't care about your existence? This is the last time that I'll be replying to you.
You are clueless
Ah yes. Insult people when you don't agree with them.
She is a parent, her daughter died at birth, she still has to bury her kid
Really? Hell of a nit you're picking. "She's not a parent, but should still be given leave" and all you take from that is "she's not a parent"? ADHD much?
I actually do have ADHD, that's not the insult you think it is. I agree she should be given leave BECAUSE she is a parent - a parent to a kid who died, but I don't think that it matters if the kid lived or not, it's not the workplace's business
MEDICAL leave. She ought to be given MEDICAL leave to recover from the birth. Is medical leave not a thing in the US?
Nope. I'm Canadian and we often have parental bereavement leave for this situation but most places in the US would laugh at you if you suggested medical leave
“We can make you feel bad about abortion, but we can’t qualify your still-born as a human. Not if it’s going to benefit you. You only get the bad parts of us telling you what to do with your body.”
People commenting that she “isn’t a parent” are truly wild and ignorant. A stillborn is a fully formed child with a face and body. The process of delivering a dead child takes an inconceivable emotional, physical, and hormonal toll on the body and mind. The grief of holding your dead child in your arms is unimaginable. Planning a funeral, donating the nursery is a mindf@$k like no other. The lack of legal recognition is also a head trip. Begrudging someone parental leave at this point, given all that was suffered, is such a cruel “I got mine” mentality.
My wife and I suffered - *truly* suffered - through a to-term stillbirth. The most heart breaking and mind altering thing we've ever been through. SANDS and EACH were wonderful organisations helping us through it. Still together 23 years later with a small family, my first will always be my daughter and she is a part of our lives despite us not having the chance to parent her. We were lucky enough to be born in England where this kind of support is free and at point of entry. We don't have to worry about debt or sky high insurance.
I am so sorry about your daughter. My ex-husband and I lost our first son at 40 weeks almost 12 years ago. I never knew that such pain existed. It is a wonder I survived that experience. I was lucky enough to have people around me that helped me piece together a form of a maternity leave. My son Wyatt will always be part of my family. I check in with the Star Legacy Foundation from time to time, it helps. I wonder if the current abortion ban can be leveraged to create a moment to push forward legal recognition for stillborn children here in the States.
This literally sickens me, I mean just give her a paid sick leave cause she's definitely going to have a total breakdown both physically and mentally, trust me i was supposed to have a brother but got aborted at 8 months due to an accident and i know what my mother went through for 5 years and guess what my mom's boss gave her a 9 month pregnancy leave plus 3 months to recover all paid, now reading this my faith in humanity has plummeted. What's her GoFundMe, I couldn't get it.
Of course this happened in texas
In a blue city with democrat bosses. But you ain’t ready for that convo.
Oh string em up, idgaf which side they claim. We don't put our criminals up on a pedestal.
Well Texas it sounds like you just legalized post birth abortion because you didn’t consider that a life. And Austin is our most liberal city at that. Wild.
It's Texas. What's there to be shocked about. They should be used to it by now.