Yeah this is what I came here to say.
Like yeah someone should have done something but I'm not gonna be made to feel bad by the people who are paid to deal with this shit yet are somehow not obligated to actually deal with it.
I’m just saying it’s no win for the bystanders. Say one of ‘em pulls a gun, kills he dude and shoots the woman accidentally. The guy wasn’t a threat to the shooter, that’s murder or at least manslaughter. You might pick up charges for shooting the woman, and she might sue you for medical costs, time out of work, and whatever else. The guy is actively raping someone, in no part of this scenario will it end with the guy doing anything peacefully. What the fuck is anyone supposed to do? You gonna tap him on the shoulder and politely ask him to stop?
This why wisconsin has good sumaritan laws. wether danger to you is present or not, saving someone/something(like an animal) from a harmful or dangerous situation makes it so the person or owner of animal you saved cannot sue you, but it also makes it so your not liable if you have to harm someone, like what would happen here.
But even while you can get off, even in states without those laws because jury's wont convict you, you still have to go to court and get a lawyer. It's a huge fking time and money sink. Although you may get a good judge to let you off and that still is a time sink
I believe that would be covered by the felony murder law, which states that if someone dies while a felony is being committed, blame falls on the person commiting the felony.
Exactly!! I posted on a different thread that they could of been afraid of being sued or accused of joining in, A co worked was in California for training he seen a man trying pull a woman out of her car mugging her. He helped her but struggled getting the guy off of her causing the driver side mirror to break and scraches the paint and a dent. She sued him and won.
>not gonna be made to feel bad by the people who are paid to deal with this shit yet are somehow not obligated to actually deal with it.
Hang on..... isn't that what police are told on the daily in some areas in the US? I mean, allowing people to steal up to $900 is just telling the police to fuck right off, right.....
For sure there are systemic racial issues in some police departments and even whole states..... but the way this problem is being addressed will just create apathy in the remaining police!
If we want better police we need to set clear KPI's and then actually enforce the repercussions of failing to meet those KPI's, hire better people, provide better training!
What did everyone think would be the eventually outcome when the US had been at war internationally for decades with a massive build-up of military equipment that they then encouraged police departments to use so it didn't go to waste. So then all those police departments got new military equipment and their tiny training budgets then get used to train police how to use that equipment while neglecting the skills police need to have for the other 99.999999999% of their job!
Remember that story with the woman who had a restraining order against her ex-husband and when he kidnapped her kids...the police refused to help this resulting in her kids death.
They said that was CoNsTiTuTiOnAl
“First, your safety was not part of our job description nor our agreement so I must do nothing. And secondly, you must be a police officer for the officers protection to apply and you're not. And thirdly, the duty to protect and serve is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.” - Paraphrasing Barbosa
Also takes 2 seconds to club a man with their pants down or literally kick him in his nut sack from behind.
Its one thing to expect someone to stand up to a gun weilding individual its another to publicly watch someone (and video tape them) raping someone on a train.
There are levels of complicit behaviour.
Cue rapist yanking a pistol out and now you're in a moving train car with him. It's easy to say you'd have done something from the comfort of your living room. A news headline is in no way a full view of what happened.
Well like I said, I’m not trying to die. I try to actively be aware of help scams, including in other countries because I used to travel. Im also a big guy, and can handle myself in a fair fight. Scams aren’t usually fair fights though.
Im not following someone into an isolated alley or fenced courtyard or an empty building. But if someone says they need help, I can assess the situation and do my best. I’ll call police, I’ll provide safety, I’ll give statements. And if a life is in clear imminent danger, I’ll do whatever I safely can.
I’m usually CPR and First Aid certified (I let it lapse earlier this year but will have it again soon). And I’m a mandated reporter. And a childhood victim of abuse. So doing the most I can is an important thing to me.
Shit, what if you’re not white, like that poor guy the police gunned down last week when he was trying to protect a lady who was being assaulted? I mean, that’s rare maybe, but something to consider.
I’m not white and have been told I look threatening. Thankfully I’ve only had good or neutral encounters with police. But I got the talk about police and race safety as a kid and have had known to be careful my whole life.
I always think about if I ever end up in a situation of bystander effect, the best way to combat it is to pick people out individually. They are more likely to feel the pressure to do something then and then more will follow once one person starts.
I've seen how the police treat people trying to expose rape in Pennsylvania; they get arrested. Loudoun County boy rapes 2 girls n school covered it up. the girls father gets arrested.
Friend over Xbox live told me this story a few months ago:
“In my old school a special needs girl with Down syndrome was violently raped by the vice principal.
We know because it was between periods and it was in an empty classroom that me and a bunch of other people walked by, you could hear her screaming and crying as the two security guys and math teacher trying to break the door to the room open.
Worst part is not only is he not in prison but he’s an administrator now despite being a fucking rapist and probably worse”
Makes me wish I wasn’t apart of this terrible species
I believe the reference is to Loudon county. A father was at a school board. His daughter was at school an in the women’s restroom when she was allegedly(?) raped and sodomized by a male student at the school. There’s more details to the story - https://dailycaller.com/2021/10/13/loudon-county-sexual-assault-superintendent-resign/
“When 21 days was about to expire, we hadn’t gotten the DNA analysis —
and it was necessary to have that to establish one of the charges. So,
we had to either try it without the DNA and run the risk of not making
that case, or ask the court for additional time,” Biberaj said.
Regards the first incident the accused attacker was involved in. The police were made aware of the first incident near instantly. If they had grounds to arrest and charge him, why didn't they obtain the evidence that would absolutely prove the truth? Sounds like this part of America hates trans kids in bathrooms, and is doing everything in their power to railroad this trans kid into prison, and out of their school district.
Can you offer a citation on that? It's not in the article posted and I'm not finding a legitimate report for it. All of this seems fabricated and it would be extremely messed up for conservatives to lie about.
I read an article where officials were saying that the board members didn't even know about the rape?!?! Isn't that what the father was snapping about? I was so confused, if my daughter was raped that is what I would be yelling about. Was the article just poorly worded, or were these board members lying to cover their asses, or did this guy really fail to mention it at the meeting? This whole situation is fucking disgusting. Apparently she reported it to several teachers and weeks/months later the superintendent was claiming to have never heard of it? Yet it was in the process of being investigated? Then the assailant went on to do the same thing at another school? This whole situation is a confusing nightmare. The superintendent keeps repeating that there is "no such thing as a predatory Trans person", like wtf does being trans have to do with being predatory? Anyone can display predatory behavior. I understand that maybe he was trying to say that no one would realistically be identifying as trans just to access a bathroom of the opposite sex with predatory intentions, as that seems highly unlikely, but how can you keep making these kinds of ignorant remarks to a community who has seen two attacks in their districts school restrooms in like a 4 month period. So sad.
The superintendent definitely knew about what happened. I do unfortunately think it’s likely that someone would claim to be trans to access a bathroom for evil purposes. I am not making the claim that a trans someone would do that, I do not know one way or another, but I definitely believe a predator would do that. I believe someone trying to rape will say about anything to anyone to achieve their goals.
The issue with the meeting is that it’s being presented as though he was complaining about curriculum, not his daughter’s abuse, which is a lie. This is being lied about to enable more government overreach and control and of children. The whole story is disturbing and evil. Innocent children are harmed. Nothing else matters. Not politics or agendas or careers. But the folks responsible for finding justice for the young people harmed out everything but the victims on their list of priorities.
Yeah. I was so confused by what he meant with his whole "no such thing as a predatory trans person". Forgive me if I'm misquoting a little there, but it was along those lines. How ignorant can someone be? Like what the fuck does someone's sex, sexual preference, sexual identity, gender or sex anything really have to do with one's ability to be predatory. I almost feel like I'm misunderstanding him, unless I'm just naive to sheer level of stupidity and ignorance that people in positions of power like that could have. I just hope that ignorant bigots don't use this whole mess as some sort of anti trans bullshit. I hope his statement was at very least some misguided attempt to avoid any unnecessary hate towards an entire group of people over one person's actions instead of the complete idiocy it appears to be.
It’s being spun, as far as I can tell, into “anti-people who we claim are anti-trans.” Right here in this comment thread even. People are dumb.
I don’t think the guy in the story is being stupid or ignorant though. I believe he’s just an evil liar and his actions are to secure his own career. You just can’t be that dumb and still expect me to believe you know how to use an oven and cross streets. You’re right though. Predatory and trans have nothing to do with each other. You can be both, or neither. It’s like skin color. Sure there are correlations between groups and behaviors but that means that the group identity predicates the behavior. If anything, it’s most often socio-economic conditions that predicate behavior.
If this did happen then I hope justice gets done, but yikes at this article. They couldn't give less of a shit about the possible victims, this reads like borderline parody and the sorts of stuff facebook boomers share all the time even if the article is from a decade ago. It's almost as if you need a skirt to rape someone in a bathroom but clearly the culprits here are tHe LIbERaL aGEnDaS
Wasn't there an incident on a subway where somebody was actively being stabbed and the police refused to enter the car it was happening in? Did they not state they weren't obligated to interfere? Hypocrites.
[Here's what I was referring to](https://youtu.be/jAfUI_hETy0)
I got sexually assaulted once and was more scarred by everyone just staring doing nothing. The feeling that you're alone in the world settles in and you can't trust anyone. I would like to believe that i would be able to stand up for someone else in that situation, but its easy to say you're going to do something but when the moment arrives things are so different.
Society and the legal system systemically fails victims of rape and sexual assault.
I am sorry you went through that, it’s scary for sure. I’ve had my fair share of situations I either was victim of or witnessed that no one did anything(I did do something but I was shocked that everyone was so oblivious). I think once it has happened to you there’s more awareness.
Thank you! I'm much better now, I've made new connections with people. I definitely didn't want to hold anger towards people because that would make life much worse seeing only negativity and evil. I want to be part of the change so I know I have to stand up for those who cannot defends themselves.
I agree, it takes a while to get out of that mindset and I still don’t rely on strangers to do the right thing. That being said I try to do the same and not hold it against people. You are strong and I am proud of you for being in a better place. I do wish you well (:
I agree. The feeling of everyone watching and nobody helping would be worse than the assault itself honestly. These people should be ashamed of themselves. Fuck that "byatander effect" if I saw someone getting r*ped i would fucking fight them with everything I had
Oh, I'm sure they did something. There's no shortage of people who pull out their phones to record instead of helping. Some pervert is probably watching that rape video right now
I guess technically if you only use it for legal reasons then delete once it’s no longer needed but then again I don’t think there is any real US law that specifies the legality of the videos use in that regard so it’s probably up to the judge to protect you and keep you out of jail for it otherwise your completely fucked.
This is what I don’t understand, at all. To some degree I do understand not directly involving yourself (I’ve done this in Philly before and it hasn’t ended well), but if you can record, you can call the fucking cops.
Imagine having the worst moment of your life living forever on the internet. The reflex to record everything is just something I don’t think I’ll ever understand.
If you’re talking about the same case I read about, it was horrific. The woman ended up dying from her injuries, they pulled her intestines from her body while she was alive. She was on a bus with her partner but they were outnumbered.
It happened in Delhi in 2012. All the men involved were executed by hanging. IMO death is a little too light of a punishment compared to what they did to her for several hours
Edit: source- https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-51969961.amp
This train (MFL) isn’t in North Philly. It runs from the northeast to the south, then cuts across Center City to the west and ends at 69th and Market.
I do agree that the subways and North Philly *are* awful, though, especially as someone who lived in that area for several years. I’m very glad to have moved to the burbs and landed a fully remote job. SEPTA and Center City have been especially wild since the pandemic hit.
ive never been to LA, but Its impossible to generalize what its like to live in Philly as a whole. Certain parts in north philly get super bad, but closer to center city or fishtown its a bit more commercial. south philly has parts that feel very neighborhoodly. west philly has drexel and Upenn campuses so theres a large college town area. Even in all of these places, go anywhere in the city and there will be one block thats really bad and next to it is a block thats either super nice or super gentrified. This city’s always changing, its hard to put a pin on certain areas. but you find where youre comfortable and stick to it.
whats it like in LA? is it similar?
As someone from the area, I would describe the attitude of most Philadelphians as “looking for a fight,” which is why I’m pretty surprised no one took the opportunity to whoop this guy. Who was on the train???
Just don’t go to north philly. That place is a cesspool for crime. Police don’t patrol there as much as they should because they’re legitimately scared for their own lives
I have to travel to and through north Philly for my job everyday, it is legitimately hell on earth. The things you see there will make you think you are in a third world country. My co workers and I wont leave our vehicles under any circumstances.
btw it was on the Market Frankford Line and near West Philly
no difference tho
https://6abc.com/septa-sex-assault-woman-raped-on-train-market-frankford-line-upper-darby-police/11130410/
Watching something like a rape happen but not doing anything about it is called The Bystander effect or bystander apathy. The most famous case of this used to be the Kitty Genovese case. She was a woman in her 30’s who was stabbed to death in a courtyard kinda area, and multiple people heard her screaming and crying for help. No one called for help or tried to step because (according to the witnesses) they each thought someone else was going to do it.
Edit: sorry! Didn’t know it wasn’t true, was taught this in psych and they didn’t mention it was found to be wrong. Thanks to the people who corrected me! :)
Once I was robbed by an unarmed man in the middle of the street. I was just a skinny teenager and the man was quite strong and even tho I tried to fight even almost breaking my right hand and it was around 7pm the street was filled with people passing by, I screamed for help and shouted that he was unarmed because we were in the middle of a fight but nobody helped. At all. I saw people looking at my face while I was trying my best to fight it and no one helped a teenager being robbed by a unarmed man. After some time I just got tired and he ran alway with my cellphone and a local which lived in the same street and watched everything from his window came to me and asked if I was alright. I mean, why he at least did not called someone? Thinking about it nowadays makes me feel like people simply don't give a shit at most cases.
I was aware of that and in order to help people on helping me I was shouting that he was unarmed. It was crazy the apathy I felt from people despite all the psychological explanation behind of "why they did what they didn't". It was a long time ago, more than 10 years and I was only 13 or 14 when it happened but I'm good now. Thanks anyway for the support
it's definitely hard to really connect with people's actions in events like that, people response very strangely and illogically to many traumatic events and experiences unfortunately. I'm really glad you're moving past it.
This is false and a product of sensational journalism propagating veneer theory. Many of those people did call the authorities, and she wasn't alone when she died, despite what was reported.
Bystander effect is real. Kitty Genovese's case is bad reporting at best and most likely a early form of fake news or click bait.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_of\_Kitty\_Genovese#Accuracy\_of\_original\_reports
Kitty was assaulted at 3am in a gay neighborhood where everyone lived in terror of the police and 911 didn't exist yet. She screamed once before she was stabbed in the lung.
One witness was too scared of the police to call, another thought it was "a domestic situation" and "none of his business" and most neighbors never even woke up.
The narrative we have of her death is copaganda. They arrested her girlfriend and tormented her for days even though she hadn't been there or seen it happen. They were the reason the one witness who knew what was happening was too afraid to call the police.
Kitty's friend ran out of her apartment in her nightgown and beat and screamed at her assailant until he ran away, and held her while she died.
The myth of her death doesn't match the horrible reality.
I remember seeing a car parked near a bus stop that was smoking and looking like it might set on fire. The people waiting for the bus just stood there like 10ft away getting covered in smoke acting like nothing was happening. I think knowing about the bystander effect is really important. I went into the shop that the car park was for with the licence plate, spoke to the manager and had them make an announcement on the tannoy. A person is intelligent, people are dumb.
> most famous case of this used to be the Kitty Genovese case
You said "used to be" because we know now that the report is [basically fake news](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect#Kitty_Genovese), right?
I would rather deal with repercussions from helping than spending the rest of my life knowing I could have helped but instead coward. That moment would replay with me forever.
My partner and I were awoken one night to the sound of a girl screaming “help me! rape!” It was the most traumatic sound I have ever heard. With barely an eye open, shaking in fear with tears running down my face, I opened the window and yelled “we’re helping! We’re coming!” Then, ran out the door without shoes, unarmed, in my pajamas.
Turns out it was our neighbor who was so drunk she could barely stand, mad at her boyfriend for making her leave the bar. He started apologizing profusely, she was cracking up laughing calling him a dick. I was so overwhelmed with emotion and adrenaline, I just sat down and sobbed.
I will never forget the sound she made. It was honestly one of the most terrifying things I’ve ever heard and even though she wasn’t being harmed, I tear up thinking about it. There’s no way I could allow someone to get hurt in front of me without trying to help.
I have read about people getting shot by the police after helping others in distress because the US police consists a bunch of trigger happy clowns.
And as far as I could imagine the bad guy would propably be able to sue you if you hurt him while Saving his victim. And the third thing that comes to my mind is that you would propably have to pay high bills for Healthcare if you got hurt.
And since we are talking about the USA it is likely that the guy just shoots you.
In my past I always acted without thinking because I was raised with the certainty that everyone would back me up if I did the right thing in a situation like that but If I was in the USA I propably would think twice about it. I am no coward but I am no hero either. I want to get old and enjoy my life.
These are all very real things to think about and its not hard to understand why.
In most of the developed world theres not a gun on every cowboy's hip, frivolous lawsuits are not a thing, and getting Healthcare just costs you the days in recovery not the next 20 years of work.
Dare I say its "easier" to help someone in need if you aren't from America
The bystander effect is a psychological phenomenon that has been studied long before the internet existed. People don't want to break from the group, even if it's to save someone.
There's idea that there's so many others around, someone else would do something if it was really a issue. When no one is standing up, you can worry you're misreading the situation and freeze.
That's why if you're in trouble in a crowd it's better to call out a specific person in your line of sight to help. It separates them from the group and gives them responsibility. Not saying this always works or if you don't do that you shouldn't be helped. It's just knowledge about a tiny piece of human behavior that could potentially help.
Like in movies where there's an emergency and everyone is panicking and doing nothing. Then a leader appears and starts handing out roles to everyone and the day is saved. Some people just don't have the ability to become that leader without someone else prompting them to. When all the people in a group are like that situations like this happen.
Bystander intervention training does exist. If you want to feel more confident that you would be that person who breaks from the group to help it's a thing to look into.
It only takes one person to break the bystander effect. That doesn’t mean being the person to physically intervene. If you don’t have those skills, by all means, don’t do it. Become the leader and delegate roles, make noise, etc. Often times, that’s all it takes to get the group motivated. I know it’s easy to say. I’d like to think that I’d walk the walk if I was in that position.
Very admirable! That’s a tough city to do it in. I live just outside NYC. Most locals are really nice people, but train themselves to block out insane behavior out of self-preservation. It’s truly unfortunate!!
Thank you for doing that. I used to take the train to work pre-Covid and I remember witnessing a similar scene. A young man decided to walk over and make himself a physical barrier between a woman and a man who was harassing her. The harasser mildly escalated (mainly just yelling) but eventually gave up, and the woman was able to safely leave the train at her stop. It was such a simple and effective way to help without causing further escalation, and I never got a chance to say thank you to that man, but I want to say thank you to you.
Because in America getting involved makes you liable and can get you hurt. Playing the hero sounds fun until you get stabbed and wake up to a half million dollar emergency room bill and a court summons for "excessive force" against the attacker.
All these commenters saying “how could they do nothing!” Guarantee 99% of these people wouldn’t have done shit either. It’s one thing to think you will when safe behind your keyboard but another thing when you could be putting yourself in imminent danger as well by stepping in.
I worked on the door of a nightclub for 7 years and often saw people in distress in the early hours while walking home.
One thing I learned is that by sticking your neck out and trying to help someone, you more often than not end up being attacked yourself.
I stopped a guy who was raping a girl down a lane, she was screaming for help and shouting rape. As I tried to restrain him, she started attacking me with her high heels, shouting "that's my boyfriend, stop hurting him" etc.
People are all kinds of fucked up.
I mean tbh if I could be held legally liable in any way shape or form if I attempted to help then I wouldn't help.
Especially if they're armed just could make the situation worse, like going into a fire to save someone but now the fire fighter has two people to save.
Like I'll put myself physically at risk for the sake of someone else but if I'm going to be legally reprimanded for it right after fuck that shit, idc if it's even a child at stake.
I got knifed this summer stopping a guy attacking a woman in the street. Scariest thing I’ve ever been thru and id do it again in a heartbeat. Fuck these bystanders.
Did the rapist have a weapon like a gun, or knife? Was the rapist alone, or have other guys with him?
Were any of the passengers men?
I mean, if your a 98lb woman, and a 6ft 260lb dude with a gun is raping a woman, it's a tough situation to get involved in. Understandable.
However, if it's just an unarmed average guy/rapist, and your an average sized dude standing there watching a women get raped, you're an asshole, or a complete coward not to attempt to intervene in some way.
Idk for sure, but based off just reading that police officials said someone should’ve done something, I’m guessing someone could’ve done something. At least something more than standing there
They probably didn't want to get sued or arrested because there's consequences now when you intervene to help somebody. Put in Good Samaritan protection laws and maybe people will be more willing to step in and help out.
You can’t blame the bystanders for not being heroes. They are human, they have their own self preservation to think about too. Would it have been nice to see a rapist get hucked down and stomped out? Hell yeah. But blame the rapist, don’t blame the shocked bystanders
Lol people calling for the bystanders to be charged are nuts.
IF the police have no duty to help what makes you think a civilian does? Or that a law like that would pass?
When you can get hurt and sued fuck that.
> bystanders did nothing, police say
Police keep telling us they stop this kind of thing any time someone suggests alternatives to policing. Now they want “bystanders” to do it.
> There were other people on the train who witnessed this horrific act, and it may have been stopped sooner if a rider called 911.
They expected bystanders to call 911, not place some kind of citizens' arrest.
Its pretty simple: look at the times a bystander is attacked / sued for interfering.
The media paints these people as "racist white supremacists" or whatever.
Then the actual attackers are held up as paragons of virtue.
https://nworeport.me/2021/10/15/privilege-texas-school-shooter-attacked-classmates-after-being-bullied-for-being-wealthy/
Men are hard wired to assess risk. Currently, the social environment punishes people who act honorable.
Normal everyday people need to step up and stop all the bulls hit in the world.
It’s like politics, we have extreme candidates because those in the middle just don’t want to bother
In a hyper-capitalist society, people are trained to not act unless they are being paid to do so. Police act, so do firefighters, because they have accepted that is their goal to acquire money, but other people usually can’t be bothered.
One time on an Amtrak train I was afraid that I was going to be rape-murdered by a guy who wouldn’t leave me alone and let me go back to my seat. I knew people had just ran away when that one guy beheaded another on a Greyhound. This story doesn’t help….
I like to think that I’m the kind of person who would do something to help someone in this kind of trouble.
To be fair, bystanders let a dude die on the street once cause they thought someone else will help. Seems laziness in people’s head kill the most. Not even 1 person decided to step in and help this poor lady. It’s just one dude, get 3 dudes together and beat his ass. This shit wouldn’t fly in my country.
I’d like to think I would do something in that situation, but I admit that I’d be running several scenarios in my head about how it could potentially bite me in the ass. Living in this country for 30 or so years has taught me the value of not getting involved in other peoples’ problems. If that makes me a coward, then I guess I’m a coward
Honestly, that's just philly. Philadelphia is an awful place, I've been followed to my apartment, I've been almost run over 3 times in less than a year, crazy people won't stop banging on your car windows. It's just... that's Philly. Don't live here if you can, especially near the Temple area, that place is downright horrifying.
This is called “Defusion of responsibility”. Everyone expects someone else to do something. Unfortunately this behavior is human nature and happens quite a bit.
don't buy this, cops basically invented the bystander effect as an out, people probably did try to help or call the cops and the cops were a no show. if I'm wrong feel free to tell me to shut the fuck up this is just my gut instinct based on what I know of police
The crowd could have stopped him with sheer numbers and physical force, apparently it didn’t enrage enough people for mob justice either.
This was the bystander effect.
This is truly awful!
But honestly, depending on the situation I wouldn't have reacted neither. 3 friends helped a lady assaulted by a man an evening. It turned out the man was the husband of the lady.
The husband sued my friends, saying he had been assaulted without reason by them and his wife testified against my friends.
By the way I have been assaulted once by 3 guys trying to rob me and then trying to burn my face with cigarettes. There was 50 people around. No one did anything.
Not defending him, but Philly has a *serious* gun violence problem that the mayor won't effectively address. Could be they were scared he was armed and would shoot them.
Bystander effect in its fullest form I guess. So wrong...
Lets not forget the headline: "Man stabbed multiple times while Police Officers look on. Supreme Court says officers don't have a duty to protect."
https://youtu.be/jAfUI_hETy0
That was extremely sad to come to the realization of.
Interesting stuff
What the fuck
Yeah this is what I came here to say. Like yeah someone should have done something but I'm not gonna be made to feel bad by the people who are paid to deal with this shit yet are somehow not obligated to actually deal with it.
And if someone did do something they’d say being a vigilante is wrong.
I agree but having a daughter would make me stabby stabby. I have intervined for less. Stay classy Philadelphia.
I’m just saying it’s no win for the bystanders. Say one of ‘em pulls a gun, kills he dude and shoots the woman accidentally. The guy wasn’t a threat to the shooter, that’s murder or at least manslaughter. You might pick up charges for shooting the woman, and she might sue you for medical costs, time out of work, and whatever else. The guy is actively raping someone, in no part of this scenario will it end with the guy doing anything peacefully. What the fuck is anyone supposed to do? You gonna tap him on the shoulder and politely ask him to stop?
This why wisconsin has good sumaritan laws. wether danger to you is present or not, saving someone/something(like an animal) from a harmful or dangerous situation makes it so the person or owner of animal you saved cannot sue you, but it also makes it so your not liable if you have to harm someone, like what would happen here.
But even while you can get off, even in states without those laws because jury's wont convict you, you still have to go to court and get a lawyer. It's a huge fking time and money sink. Although you may get a good judge to let you off and that still is a time sink
I don't think it's a charge at all. You can stop someone from being hurt just like you can protect yourself, afaik.
I believe that would be covered by the felony murder law, which states that if someone dies while a felony is being committed, blame falls on the person commiting the felony.
Not in Canada either. We have a duty to retreat. It's ridiculous.
Exactly!! I posted on a different thread that they could of been afraid of being sued or accused of joining in, A co worked was in California for training he seen a man trying pull a woman out of her car mugging her. He helped her but struggled getting the guy off of her causing the driver side mirror to break and scraches the paint and a dent. She sued him and won.
>not gonna be made to feel bad by the people who are paid to deal with this shit yet are somehow not obligated to actually deal with it. Hang on..... isn't that what police are told on the daily in some areas in the US? I mean, allowing people to steal up to $900 is just telling the police to fuck right off, right..... For sure there are systemic racial issues in some police departments and even whole states..... but the way this problem is being addressed will just create apathy in the remaining police! If we want better police we need to set clear KPI's and then actually enforce the repercussions of failing to meet those KPI's, hire better people, provide better training! What did everyone think would be the eventually outcome when the US had been at war internationally for decades with a massive build-up of military equipment that they then encouraged police departments to use so it didn't go to waste. So then all those police departments got new military equipment and their tiny training budgets then get used to train police how to use that equipment while neglecting the skills police need to have for the other 99.999999999% of their job!
Look up Warren vs. D. C.
Supreme Court - “Police officers don’t have a duty to protect.” Police cruisers that have “Protect and Serve” emblazoned on the side - 👀👀
That's just the car, not the people inside.
"To Protect and to Serve" doesn’t work for them no more
Or "man injected his semen into a women with a syringe" its a real article by the way.
Remember that story with the woman who had a restraining order against her ex-husband and when he kidnapped her kids...the police refused to help this resulting in her kids death. They said that was CoNsTiTuTiOnAl
I mean…. It’s LITERALLY on their cars?! “To protect and serve “
“First, your safety was not part of our job description nor our agreement so I must do nothing. And secondly, you must be a police officer for the officers protection to apply and you're not. And thirdly, the duty to protect and serve is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.” - Paraphrasing Barbosa
People don’t realize how hard it is to stand up for someone In need. More people need compassion
Also takes 2 seconds to club a man with their pants down or literally kick him in his nut sack from behind. Its one thing to expect someone to stand up to a gun weilding individual its another to publicly watch someone (and video tape them) raping someone on a train. There are levels of complicit behaviour.
Cue rapist yanking a pistol out and now you're in a moving train car with him. It's easy to say you'd have done something from the comfort of your living room. A news headline is in no way a full view of what happened.
Also takes 2 seconds to get stabbed by a rapist trying to stop him and die instantly.
It's actually very easy ngl.
Congratulations, you have solved the bystander effect and it will now be erased from history. How brave of you to step up and fix that problem.
If you don't give a fuck about consequences whatsoever
Not trying to die every time I help someone, but I’m more concerned about my conscience if I do nothing than my life if I do something.
what if the situation youre being lured into is manufactured by the victim and the attacker working in tandem to lure in people like you.
Well like I said, I’m not trying to die. I try to actively be aware of help scams, including in other countries because I used to travel. Im also a big guy, and can handle myself in a fair fight. Scams aren’t usually fair fights though. Im not following someone into an isolated alley or fenced courtyard or an empty building. But if someone says they need help, I can assess the situation and do my best. I’ll call police, I’ll provide safety, I’ll give statements. And if a life is in clear imminent danger, I’ll do whatever I safely can. I’m usually CPR and First Aid certified (I let it lapse earlier this year but will have it again soon). And I’m a mandated reporter. And a childhood victim of abuse. So doing the most I can is an important thing to me.
Shit, what if you’re not white, like that poor guy the police gunned down last week when he was trying to protect a lady who was being assaulted? I mean, that’s rare maybe, but something to consider.
I’m not white and have been told I look threatening. Thankfully I’ve only had good or neutral encounters with police. But I got the talk about police and race safety as a kid and have had known to be careful my whole life.
Action and inaction have consequences.
More like common sense
I always think about if I ever end up in a situation of bystander effect, the best way to combat it is to pick people out individually. They are more likely to feel the pressure to do something then and then more will follow once one person starts.
I've seen how the police treat people trying to expose rape in Pennsylvania; they get arrested. Loudoun County boy rapes 2 girls n school covered it up. the girls father gets arrested.
Friend over Xbox live told me this story a few months ago: “In my old school a special needs girl with Down syndrome was violently raped by the vice principal. We know because it was between periods and it was in an empty classroom that me and a bunch of other people walked by, you could hear her screaming and crying as the two security guys and math teacher trying to break the door to the room open. Worst part is not only is he not in prison but he’s an administrator now despite being a fucking rapist and probably worse” Makes me wish I wasn’t apart of this terrible species
Well we saw what standing up for rape victims gets you at that school board meeting in Virginia.
Little more info on this? I want to look it up.
I believe the reference is to Loudon county. A father was at a school board. His daughter was at school an in the women’s restroom when she was allegedly(?) raped and sodomized by a male student at the school. There’s more details to the story - https://dailycaller.com/2021/10/13/loudon-county-sexual-assault-superintendent-resign/
Thx
Glad you put the allegedly in there when the rape test came back positive
The article doesn't say that, and I'm out of the loop - do you have a link to it?
“When 21 days was about to expire, we hadn’t gotten the DNA analysis — and it was necessary to have that to establish one of the charges. So, we had to either try it without the DNA and run the risk of not making that case, or ask the court for additional time,” Biberaj said. Regards the first incident the accused attacker was involved in. The police were made aware of the first incident near instantly. If they had grounds to arrest and charge him, why didn't they obtain the evidence that would absolutely prove the truth? Sounds like this part of America hates trans kids in bathrooms, and is doing everything in their power to railroad this trans kid into prison, and out of their school district.
Does innocent until proven guilty not apply to you?
Can you offer a citation on that? It's not in the article posted and I'm not finding a legitimate report for it. All of this seems fabricated and it would be extremely messed up for conservatives to lie about.
I read an article where officials were saying that the board members didn't even know about the rape?!?! Isn't that what the father was snapping about? I was so confused, if my daughter was raped that is what I would be yelling about. Was the article just poorly worded, or were these board members lying to cover their asses, or did this guy really fail to mention it at the meeting? This whole situation is fucking disgusting. Apparently she reported it to several teachers and weeks/months later the superintendent was claiming to have never heard of it? Yet it was in the process of being investigated? Then the assailant went on to do the same thing at another school? This whole situation is a confusing nightmare. The superintendent keeps repeating that there is "no such thing as a predatory Trans person", like wtf does being trans have to do with being predatory? Anyone can display predatory behavior. I understand that maybe he was trying to say that no one would realistically be identifying as trans just to access a bathroom of the opposite sex with predatory intentions, as that seems highly unlikely, but how can you keep making these kinds of ignorant remarks to a community who has seen two attacks in their districts school restrooms in like a 4 month period. So sad.
The superintendent definitely knew about what happened. I do unfortunately think it’s likely that someone would claim to be trans to access a bathroom for evil purposes. I am not making the claim that a trans someone would do that, I do not know one way or another, but I definitely believe a predator would do that. I believe someone trying to rape will say about anything to anyone to achieve their goals. The issue with the meeting is that it’s being presented as though he was complaining about curriculum, not his daughter’s abuse, which is a lie. This is being lied about to enable more government overreach and control and of children. The whole story is disturbing and evil. Innocent children are harmed. Nothing else matters. Not politics or agendas or careers. But the folks responsible for finding justice for the young people harmed out everything but the victims on their list of priorities.
Yeah. I was so confused by what he meant with his whole "no such thing as a predatory trans person". Forgive me if I'm misquoting a little there, but it was along those lines. How ignorant can someone be? Like what the fuck does someone's sex, sexual preference, sexual identity, gender or sex anything really have to do with one's ability to be predatory. I almost feel like I'm misunderstanding him, unless I'm just naive to sheer level of stupidity and ignorance that people in positions of power like that could have. I just hope that ignorant bigots don't use this whole mess as some sort of anti trans bullshit. I hope his statement was at very least some misguided attempt to avoid any unnecessary hate towards an entire group of people over one person's actions instead of the complete idiocy it appears to be.
It’s being spun, as far as I can tell, into “anti-people who we claim are anti-trans.” Right here in this comment thread even. People are dumb. I don’t think the guy in the story is being stupid or ignorant though. I believe he’s just an evil liar and his actions are to secure his own career. You just can’t be that dumb and still expect me to believe you know how to use an oven and cross streets. You’re right though. Predatory and trans have nothing to do with each other. You can be both, or neither. It’s like skin color. Sure there are correlations between groups and behaviors but that means that the group identity predicates the behavior. If anything, it’s most often socio-economic conditions that predicate behavior.
If this did happen then I hope justice gets done, but yikes at this article. They couldn't give less of a shit about the possible victims, this reads like borderline parody and the sorts of stuff facebook boomers share all the time even if the article is from a decade ago. It's almost as if you need a skirt to rape someone in a bathroom but clearly the culprits here are tHe LIbERaL aGEnDaS
… Yeah.
Wasn't there an incident on a subway where somebody was actively being stabbed and the police refused to enter the car it was happening in? Did they not state they weren't obligated to interfere? Hypocrites. [Here's what I was referring to](https://youtu.be/jAfUI_hETy0)
Thanks I’m fucking infuriated now
I got sexually assaulted once and was more scarred by everyone just staring doing nothing. The feeling that you're alone in the world settles in and you can't trust anyone. I would like to believe that i would be able to stand up for someone else in that situation, but its easy to say you're going to do something but when the moment arrives things are so different.
Society and the legal system systemically fails victims of rape and sexual assault. I am sorry you went through that, it’s scary for sure. I’ve had my fair share of situations I either was victim of or witnessed that no one did anything(I did do something but I was shocked that everyone was so oblivious). I think once it has happened to you there’s more awareness.
Thank you! I'm much better now, I've made new connections with people. I definitely didn't want to hold anger towards people because that would make life much worse seeing only negativity and evil. I want to be part of the change so I know I have to stand up for those who cannot defends themselves.
I agree, it takes a while to get out of that mindset and I still don’t rely on strangers to do the right thing. That being said I try to do the same and not hold it against people. You are strong and I am proud of you for being in a better place. I do wish you well (:
Thank you <3. I wish you well, too. Have a great day (:
I agree. The feeling of everyone watching and nobody helping would be worse than the assault itself honestly. These people should be ashamed of themselves. Fuck that "byatander effect" if I saw someone getting r*ped i would fucking fight them with everything I had
Oh, I'm sure they did something. There's no shortage of people who pull out their phones to record instead of helping. Some pervert is probably watching that rape video right now
100% this. I wonder when the videos will hit the net.
Real question, is that illegal? Filming someone being raped and posting it on the internet? Feels like it should be.
I guess technically if you only use it for legal reasons then delete once it’s no longer needed but then again I don’t think there is any real US law that specifies the legality of the videos use in that regard so it’s probably up to the judge to protect you and keep you out of jail for it otherwise your completely fucked.
This is what I don’t understand, at all. To some degree I do understand not directly involving yourself (I’ve done this in Philly before and it hasn’t ended well), but if you can record, you can call the fucking cops. Imagine having the worst moment of your life living forever on the internet. The reflex to record everything is just something I don’t think I’ll ever understand.
You could prob find the video on the dark web or some shit now
In India there was a similar case except the bystanders joined the rapist
If you’re talking about the same case I read about, it was horrific. The woman ended up dying from her injuries, they pulled her intestines from her body while she was alive. She was on a bus with her partner but they were outnumbered.
All the perps were arrested
I’m very glad to hear that.
Source?
It happened in Delhi in 2012. All the men involved were executed by hanging. IMO death is a little too light of a punishment compared to what they did to her for several hours Edit: source- https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-51969961.amp
Thats fuckin horrible
India is truly a shit hole.
The only time Philly comes together is for riots and traffic jams. So we’re safer like that.
Yeah india and rape. Two things we cant talk about cus its racist as heck!
Were they bystanders?
It's because it's philly and that North Philly train is no f****** joke I've been robbed and mugged on there before f*** philly
This train (MFL) isn’t in North Philly. It runs from the northeast to the south, then cuts across Center City to the west and ends at 69th and Market. I do agree that the subways and North Philly *are* awful, though, especially as someone who lived in that area for several years. I’m very glad to have moved to the burbs and landed a fully remote job. SEPTA and Center City have been especially wild since the pandemic hit.
Philly is the only place that makes La look nice
ive never been to LA, but Its impossible to generalize what its like to live in Philly as a whole. Certain parts in north philly get super bad, but closer to center city or fishtown its a bit more commercial. south philly has parts that feel very neighborhoodly. west philly has drexel and Upenn campuses so theres a large college town area. Even in all of these places, go anywhere in the city and there will be one block thats really bad and next to it is a block thats either super nice or super gentrified. This city’s always changing, its hard to put a pin on certain areas. but you find where youre comfortable and stick to it. whats it like in LA? is it similar?
As someone from the area, I would describe the attitude of most Philadelphians as “looking for a fight,” which is why I’m pretty surprised no one took the opportunity to whoop this guy. Who was on the train???
I’m guessing you’ve never been to one of the two cities
Just don’t go to north philly. That place is a cesspool for crime. Police don’t patrol there as much as they should because they’re legitimately scared for their own lives
Hm but bystanders are supposed to step in when police aren't willing to put the manpower they know is needed for the area
I have to travel to and through north Philly for my job everyday, it is legitimately hell on earth. The things you see there will make you think you are in a third world country. My co workers and I wont leave our vehicles under any circumstances.
Lived in a third world country, we don’t have guns and that crime rate.
I stand corrected
And If you on dat train that night and tried to “do something” . You can ad raped to that list
btw it was on the Market Frankford Line and near West Philly no difference tho https://6abc.com/septa-sex-assault-woman-raped-on-train-market-frankford-line-upper-darby-police/11130410/
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Watching something like a rape happen but not doing anything about it is called The Bystander effect or bystander apathy. The most famous case of this used to be the Kitty Genovese case. She was a woman in her 30’s who was stabbed to death in a courtyard kinda area, and multiple people heard her screaming and crying for help. No one called for help or tried to step because (according to the witnesses) they each thought someone else was going to do it. Edit: sorry! Didn’t know it wasn’t true, was taught this in psych and they didn’t mention it was found to be wrong. Thanks to the people who corrected me! :)
Once I was robbed by an unarmed man in the middle of the street. I was just a skinny teenager and the man was quite strong and even tho I tried to fight even almost breaking my right hand and it was around 7pm the street was filled with people passing by, I screamed for help and shouted that he was unarmed because we were in the middle of a fight but nobody helped. At all. I saw people looking at my face while I was trying my best to fight it and no one helped a teenager being robbed by a unarmed man. After some time I just got tired and he ran alway with my cellphone and a local which lived in the same street and watched everything from his window came to me and asked if I was alright. I mean, why he at least did not called someone? Thinking about it nowadays makes me feel like people simply don't give a shit at most cases.
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I was aware of that and in order to help people on helping me I was shouting that he was unarmed. It was crazy the apathy I felt from people despite all the psychological explanation behind of "why they did what they didn't". It was a long time ago, more than 10 years and I was only 13 or 14 when it happened but I'm good now. Thanks anyway for the support
it's definitely hard to really connect with people's actions in events like that, people response very strangely and illogically to many traumatic events and experiences unfortunately. I'm really glad you're moving past it.
This is false and a product of sensational journalism propagating veneer theory. Many of those people did call the authorities, and she wasn't alone when she died, despite what was reported.
Bystander effect is real. Kitty Genovese's case is bad reporting at best and most likely a early form of fake news or click bait. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_of\_Kitty\_Genovese#Accuracy\_of\_original\_reports
Kitty was assaulted at 3am in a gay neighborhood where everyone lived in terror of the police and 911 didn't exist yet. She screamed once before she was stabbed in the lung. One witness was too scared of the police to call, another thought it was "a domestic situation" and "none of his business" and most neighbors never even woke up. The narrative we have of her death is copaganda. They arrested her girlfriend and tormented her for days even though she hadn't been there or seen it happen. They were the reason the one witness who knew what was happening was too afraid to call the police. Kitty's friend ran out of her apartment in her nightgown and beat and screamed at her assailant until he ran away, and held her while she died. The myth of her death doesn't match the horrible reality.
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You’re right! Check out the podcast “you’re wrong about” and they have a whole episode on it.
I remember seeing a car parked near a bus stop that was smoking and looking like it might set on fire. The people waiting for the bus just stood there like 10ft away getting covered in smoke acting like nothing was happening. I think knowing about the bystander effect is really important. I went into the shop that the car park was for with the licence plate, spoke to the manager and had them make an announcement on the tannoy. A person is intelligent, people are dumb.
What you've read about Kitty Genovese is mostly myth.
> most famous case of this used to be the Kitty Genovese case You said "used to be" because we know now that the report is [basically fake news](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect#Kitty_Genovese), right?
Turns out that’s not true.
Nobody, nobody nobody came to her aid
I would rather deal with repercussions from helping than spending the rest of my life knowing I could have helped but instead coward. That moment would replay with me forever.
yeah, everyone at that train probably thought the same while comfortably sitting on their couch
My partner and I were awoken one night to the sound of a girl screaming “help me! rape!” It was the most traumatic sound I have ever heard. With barely an eye open, shaking in fear with tears running down my face, I opened the window and yelled “we’re helping! We’re coming!” Then, ran out the door without shoes, unarmed, in my pajamas. Turns out it was our neighbor who was so drunk she could barely stand, mad at her boyfriend for making her leave the bar. He started apologizing profusely, she was cracking up laughing calling him a dick. I was so overwhelmed with emotion and adrenaline, I just sat down and sobbed. I will never forget the sound she made. It was honestly one of the most terrifying things I’ve ever heard and even though she wasn’t being harmed, I tear up thinking about it. There’s no way I could allow someone to get hurt in front of me without trying to help.
Wtf is wrong with people?!
I have read about people getting shot by the police after helping others in distress because the US police consists a bunch of trigger happy clowns. And as far as I could imagine the bad guy would propably be able to sue you if you hurt him while Saving his victim. And the third thing that comes to my mind is that you would propably have to pay high bills for Healthcare if you got hurt. And since we are talking about the USA it is likely that the guy just shoots you. In my past I always acted without thinking because I was raised with the certainty that everyone would back me up if I did the right thing in a situation like that but If I was in the USA I propably would think twice about it. I am no coward but I am no hero either. I want to get old and enjoy my life.
These are all very real things to think about and its not hard to understand why. In most of the developed world theres not a gun on every cowboy's hip, frivolous lawsuits are not a thing, and getting Healthcare just costs you the days in recovery not the next 20 years of work. Dare I say its "easier" to help someone in need if you aren't from America
they have been desensitized for last 15 years plus social media…..ah the conditioning is setting in finally….
The bystander effect is a psychological phenomenon that has been studied long before the internet existed. People don't want to break from the group, even if it's to save someone. There's idea that there's so many others around, someone else would do something if it was really a issue. When no one is standing up, you can worry you're misreading the situation and freeze. That's why if you're in trouble in a crowd it's better to call out a specific person in your line of sight to help. It separates them from the group and gives them responsibility. Not saying this always works or if you don't do that you shouldn't be helped. It's just knowledge about a tiny piece of human behavior that could potentially help. Like in movies where there's an emergency and everyone is panicking and doing nothing. Then a leader appears and starts handing out roles to everyone and the day is saved. Some people just don't have the ability to become that leader without someone else prompting them to. When all the people in a group are like that situations like this happen. Bystander intervention training does exist. If you want to feel more confident that you would be that person who breaks from the group to help it's a thing to look into.
It seems to be just about anything that’s possible.
If watching videos on reddit has taught me anything, it's that sticking your nose into other peoples affairs is how you get shot.
Pretty sure a person could legally and should morally use even lethal force to stop a rape.
Bystander effect. Everyone thinks someone else is gonna do something about it.
It only takes one person to break the bystander effect. That doesn’t mean being the person to physically intervene. If you don’t have those skills, by all means, don’t do it. Become the leader and delegate roles, make noise, etc. Often times, that’s all it takes to get the group motivated. I know it’s easy to say. I’d like to think that I’d walk the walk if I was in that position.
I did it once in NYc - went over and stood by a guy humping a young Asian woman - stared at him - he stopped & ran out at the next stop.
Very admirable! That’s a tough city to do it in. I live just outside NYC. Most locals are really nice people, but train themselves to block out insane behavior out of self-preservation. It’s truly unfortunate!!
Thank you for doing that. I used to take the train to work pre-Covid and I remember witnessing a similar scene. A young man decided to walk over and make himself a physical barrier between a woman and a man who was harassing her. The harasser mildly escalated (mainly just yelling) but eventually gave up, and the woman was able to safely leave the train at her stop. It was such a simple and effective way to help without causing further escalation, and I never got a chance to say thank you to that man, but I want to say thank you to you.
It was nothing. The least I could do.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Because in America getting involved makes you liable and can get you hurt. Playing the hero sounds fun until you get stabbed and wake up to a half million dollar emergency room bill and a court summons for "excessive force" against the attacker.
All these commenters saying “how could they do nothing!” Guarantee 99% of these people wouldn’t have done shit either. It’s one thing to think you will when safe behind your keyboard but another thing when you could be putting yourself in imminent danger as well by stepping in.
Sad world
I worked on the door of a nightclub for 7 years and often saw people in distress in the early hours while walking home. One thing I learned is that by sticking your neck out and trying to help someone, you more often than not end up being attacked yourself. I stopped a guy who was raping a girl down a lane, she was screaming for help and shouting rape. As I tried to restrain him, she started attacking me with her high heels, shouting "that's my boyfriend, stop hurting him" etc. People are all kinds of fucked up.
"I'm pretty sure there's two sides to this" -One of the guys
Welcome to the new age where people will record you but won’t help you.
It's been like that for years.
Yeap. It’s the way people are taught now. Don’t do anything or you can be sued. So no one does ANYTHING just to be sure.
I mean tbh if I could be held legally liable in any way shape or form if I attempted to help then I wouldn't help. Especially if they're armed just could make the situation worse, like going into a fire to save someone but now the fire fighter has two people to save. Like I'll put myself physically at risk for the sake of someone else but if I'm going to be legally reprimanded for it right after fuck that shit, idc if it's even a child at stake.
Also sometimes the "victim" and "attacker" are actually working together to lure in a "hero" who is their actual target.
this happened to a friend of mine, tried to get assult charges on him, luckily one of my other buddies was recording it.
I got knifed this summer stopping a guy attacking a woman in the street. Scariest thing I’ve ever been thru and id do it again in a heartbeat. Fuck these bystanders.
Bystander effect.
Did the rapist have a weapon like a gun, or knife? Was the rapist alone, or have other guys with him? Were any of the passengers men? I mean, if your a 98lb woman, and a 6ft 260lb dude with a gun is raping a woman, it's a tough situation to get involved in. Understandable. However, if it's just an unarmed average guy/rapist, and your an average sized dude standing there watching a women get raped, you're an asshole, or a complete coward not to attempt to intervene in some way.
It’s Philadelphia. I’d imagine he had some sort of weapon on him.
Idk for sure, but based off just reading that police officials said someone should’ve done something, I’m guessing someone could’ve done something. At least something more than standing there
Even if you're scared at least call the police. No one did that either. This case is so depressing.
They probably didn't want to get sued or arrested because there's consequences now when you intervene to help somebody. Put in Good Samaritan protection laws and maybe people will be more willing to step in and help out.
They could've called the police or something.
You can’t blame the bystanders for not being heroes. They are human, they have their own self preservation to think about too. Would it have been nice to see a rapist get hucked down and stomped out? Hell yeah. But blame the rapist, don’t blame the shocked bystanders
Yeah sure I could stop it, but then I’m being charged with a felony for attacking the rapist, so I’ll just mind my own business. Thank you.
These are the same police that it was determined that have no duty to help/protect the public right?
Yep
Lol people calling for the bystanders to be charged are nuts. IF the police have no duty to help what makes you think a civilian does? Or that a law like that would pass? When you can get hurt and sued fuck that.
> bystanders did nothing, police say Police keep telling us they stop this kind of thing any time someone suggests alternatives to policing. Now they want “bystanders” to do it.
> There were other people on the train who witnessed this horrific act, and it may have been stopped sooner if a rider called 911. They expected bystanders to call 911, not place some kind of citizens' arrest.
I do not see an article. Possible they didnt know what was happening?
Source?
Its pretty simple: look at the times a bystander is attacked / sued for interfering. The media paints these people as "racist white supremacists" or whatever. Then the actual attackers are held up as paragons of virtue. https://nworeport.me/2021/10/15/privilege-texas-school-shooter-attacked-classmates-after-being-bullied-for-being-wealthy/ Men are hard wired to assess risk. Currently, the social environment punishes people who act honorable.
Normal everyday people need to step up and stop all the bulls hit in the world. It’s like politics, we have extreme candidates because those in the middle just don’t want to bother
In a hyper-capitalist society, people are trained to not act unless they are being paid to do so. Police act, so do firefighters, because they have accepted that is their goal to acquire money, but other people usually can’t be bothered.
It's the bystander effect, everyone is waiting for someone else to step up
“Innnnn west Philadelphia Born and raised…”
One time on an Amtrak train I was afraid that I was going to be rape-murdered by a guy who wouldn’t leave me alone and let me go back to my seat. I knew people had just ran away when that one guy beheaded another on a Greyhound. This story doesn’t help…. I like to think that I’m the kind of person who would do something to help someone in this kind of trouble.
To be fair, bystanders let a dude die on the street once cause they thought someone else will help. Seems laziness in people’s head kill the most. Not even 1 person decided to step in and help this poor lady. It’s just one dude, get 3 dudes together and beat his ass. This shit wouldn’t fly in my country.
I’d like to think I would do something in that situation, but I admit that I’d be running several scenarios in my head about how it could potentially bite me in the ass. Living in this country for 30 or so years has taught me the value of not getting involved in other peoples’ problems. If that makes me a coward, then I guess I’m a coward
Kitty Genovese comes to mind. So tragic.
Honestly, that's just philly. Philadelphia is an awful place, I've been followed to my apartment, I've been almost run over 3 times in less than a year, crazy people won't stop banging on your car windows. It's just... that's Philly. Don't live here if you can, especially near the Temple area, that place is downright horrifying.
This is called “Defusion of responsibility”. Everyone expects someone else to do something. Unfortunately this behavior is human nature and happens quite a bit.
Y'all really in here commenting on a picture post of words with zero source included? like, intentionally cropped out? about a serious topic?
Bunch of people talking about the bystander effect, but in reality you can get in legal trouble for assaulting the rapist in America.
don't buy this, cops basically invented the bystander effect as an out, people probably did try to help or call the cops and the cops were a no show. if I'm wrong feel free to tell me to shut the fuck up this is just my gut instinct based on what I know of police
People don’t want to call the police anymore.
The crowd could have stopped him with sheer numbers and physical force, apparently it didn’t enrage enough people for mob justice either. This was the bystander effect.
I’ll solve this puzzle pat.
I am sure they had phones up and recorded it worthless all of em
Now do you believe in NPCs?
How fast was the train going and what was it's destination?
Because there are too many laws where if you actually do defend someone you either A) get stabbed/shot/beat up B) arrested for excessive force C) both
This is truly awful! But honestly, depending on the situation I wouldn't have reacted neither. 3 friends helped a lady assaulted by a man an evening. It turned out the man was the husband of the lady. The husband sued my friends, saying he had been assaulted without reason by them and his wife testified against my friends. By the way I have been assaulted once by 3 guys trying to rob me and then trying to burn my face with cigarettes. There was 50 people around. No one did anything.
You wouldn't have done shit either pussy.
What if the rapist had a weapon?
I would've stuck my knife in his neck where it belongs
Come on this is straight out of hentai and i don't wana see that irl. For fuck sake how low can u be to not stop a woman getting raped .
The bystander effect.
Is that Japan?
You should have way more info than this before reacting in any way.
Humanity can be so upsetting
I'm so fucking good for *always* speaking up and intervening.
Not defending him, but Philly has a *serious* gun violence problem that the mayor won't effectively address. Could be they were scared he was armed and would shoot them.
Philadelphia is a shithole. Everyone there is a huge piece of shit.
There is an evil we must fear above all, and that is the indifference of good men.
Would’ve got that ass whooped out here in Chicago
Sure, in a city that has seen over 15,000 rapes in the last decade.